SoberNotMature - Episode 103 (Some Are Sicker Than Others)

Bill (00:03.41)
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. In this episode, we actually have something, well, hopefully for once we have something fun going on. We have a guest. We've got Carly back with us from episode 83, I think we figured out last time, right, Mike? So, and we have Mike not feeling well, so.

Mike (00:15.094)
Ha!

Mike (00:23.009)
Okay.

Mike (00:28.062)
Greetings from the infirmary.

Bill (00:30.894)
Well, and here's the fun part. I talk a lot anyhow, so that's probably not gonna be a problem. We won't have a problem filling space with Carly and I and then me for the rest of the episode, so we're good. But Carly, thank you obviously for coming back on with us. We truly, truly appreciate it. Everyone go back and also listen to episode 83. That was Carly and Breeze. You'll get to hear both of their stories. Also how Carly basically attacked Breeze or tried to attack her on the stage of a bar.

Mike (00:40.152)
Mm-hmm.

carly (00:40.782)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you.

Bill (00:59.054)
It was fun, fun story, so yeah, go back and listen to that one. But, so Carly, you're still doing the stuff on Instagram with Trust Your Message, right? And then you've got a book that we're gonna talk about. You're doing modeling now, if I see that correctly. And then did I say something about acting in there too? Was that another?

carly (01:12.703)
Yes.

carly (01:17.55)
Correct.

carly (01:23.038)
A little bit of, I wear many hats.

Bill (01:25.942)
Okay. And that's in the last thing there for Breeze is doing a podcast. She's got that coming up. So I had already mentioned to her on Instagram, whenever she gets it up and running to you guys, let us know. We'll be more than happy to maybe even have her on her cross from motor, do whatever we can because, uh, yeah, I just saw that on there. So yeah, you guys got a couple of things going on. But, um, so, so start off wherever you want. I mean, the, the point is to, for you to try to, we wanted to have you back on to talk about all these things you got going on and, uh, you know, let people.

carly (01:43.104)
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.

carly (01:49.051)
Okay.

Bill (01:56.326)
realize what you're up to over the last few months. So go ahead.

carly (01:59.166)
Yeah, well first of all I just want to say thank you guys so much for having me on here again. You were the first podcast episode that, or first podcast I had ever done. So it was a really great experience and you guys have always been very supportive and kind and on my journey and all the you know activities and hobbies and everything I get involved with and you're just super

just supportive people and I just, I really appreciate you both and I'm very grateful to be on here again. So I just wanted to start off by saying that. Yeah.

Mike (02:31.724)
Well, thank you.

Bill (02:31.738)
Well, you're welcome. Yeah, thank you. And yeah, you're welcome and thank you. And everyone listen to that. Somebody said something nice about us. So we appreciate that. But no, seriously, thank you.

Mike (02:39.64)
Hehehehe

carly (02:40.863)
Yes, yes, no, of course, and thank you. And yeah, so a couple of things that I've dove into that we'll talk about today, but the main focus is going to be the book, which is now live as an audiobook. And so basically the book that I wrote is a poetry book about recovery called Human Behind the Mask. And...

that is something that I wrote during my recovery once I got sober and that talked about the topics of mental health, addiction, and body dysmorphia. And Breeze, my girlfriend, being in the music industry and production and all of that creative stuff, we decided to put two and two together and we actually just launched an audio book that went live this week. Yeah, and basically what-

Bill (03:32.816)
Nice.

carly (03:35.83)
That is, I narrated it, so it's my voice and I'm saying all of the poems. And then she, like I said, being in that music industry, she actually produced the music that goes behind all of the poetry and the theme of it. So it's really, really cool. All the music matches really well and each of the series has their own little genre of music and so we're actually doing a...

Listen party and audiobook like launch Listen party in Nashville because that's where she lives next weekend. So next weekend is my one year sober and our Listen party for the audiobook.

Bill (04:17.654)
Awesome. Yeah, and that's something too. Just let people know, I mean, where's it going to be if, I don't know if we have anyone that listens in Nashville. I don't know where people are, but hey, let people know.

Mike (04:17.656)
Nice.

carly (04:27.866)
Yeah, it's next Saturday, February 17th at home. It's a studio for producers in Nashville. And so it's gonna be, we have a really cool sound system. We're gonna have some non-alcoholic beverages. And I think some people from the poetry and music community are gonna come out. So it's gonna be just really fun. And we're gonna play it really loud and be able to hear.

Bill (04:52.987)
Hahaha.

carly (04:53.99)
Yeah, I mean, you know, Breeze being able to hear the music that's involved in it. And so, yeah, we're super excited about that. And just our first it's our first project that we worked on together because we both have a lot going on independently that we do. And we're both very creative people and we're in the different industries, but both creatives.

So it was really cool to come together on a project and also the fact it's about recovery and we're both sober. So it was, we're hoping it's really impactful and people really enjoy it. And yeah, it sounds absolutely amazing. I actually asked her before the podcast if she would send over some clips to you guys. So she's going to email those over to you so you can kind of listen to some samples.

Bill (05:44.226)
wonderful.

carly (05:45.414)
Yeah, so that's the gist of the audiobook in my one year, because we wanted to launch it around my one year. And it actually came out a little earlier, which was great. So we're really excited about that. And then independently, we're both just doing, yeah, we both stay really busy. I don't know if I've told you guys what I do. My full-time career is actually a residential home designer. So I do that, you know.

carly (06:16.159)
That's my full-time career that I'm always very active with and very, very busy with. And then I juggle a bunch of things on the side. And that really helps with sobriety and staying sober is just staying busy for me. It's distracting. And every time I get a craving, it's like, well, I have so many little hobbies and things I'm involved with that I can just bounce around from one thing to the other.

So yeah, this week was my first acting gig, which was really fun.

Bill (06:48.374)
So where did you get, I guess, step back. What, where, and how? Ha ha ha.

carly (06:54.694)
So just by being in the modeling world, I actually have been doing that for two and a half years. But I did. So I've had picked, I've had, I was trained in runway walking and I was trained in, you know, posing and commercial and print like modeling and all of that. So I'm trained at modeling. I just hadn't really pursued it because I was.

I wasn't on this journey and now that I'm on this journey of my sobriety journey, I'm really just honing in on all of the activities across the board that I'm interested in that I didn't really, before I enjoyed it, but I didn't really make the time for it. I was always busy with work and then it was doing other things that I'm no longer doing.

Bill (07:45.23)
Hahaha, right.

carly (07:47.458)
So now I'm able to really focus on it and, you know, I thoroughly enjoy it and it's fun because it's still a different creative path, but it's still creativity. So I can design the homes and that's how I can keep my mind busy with work. And then I can also keep my mind busy with different gigs, like modeling or acting, and I love to paint, I draw.

you know, all kinds of right poetry, all kinds of just creative fun stuff to I really, really recommend to anybody in recovery to just what's the word when you like tap tapping into your creative side, like letting things out artistically in some sort of creative form, whether it's starting a podcast or, you know, I don't I don't know, there's so many things you can do, but just keeping yourself

busy and occupied and it's almost like you have to like have something to look forward to and that's kind of what the modeling is for me because each time I do it, it's something different. It's you know, you're working with different people, you're doing a different look, you're doing different poses. It's changing it up and kind of with the design, same thing with the houses. Each house it's different, it has its own personality. Writing poetry, each poem, different, focuses on a different theme.

So it's just been really, really nice to just kind of have those creative outlets. And I've really, they've helped get me to this point of almost at one year sober.

Bill (09:24.486)
Well, and that's the one thing that, and Mike's favorite line, right, Mike, is what will we do when we get sober, right? Ha ha ha.

Mike (09:30.081)
Exactly. God, life's going to be so boring if we're not getting loaded anymore.

carly (09:31.446)
I know, right?

Bill (09:34.441)
Hahaha!

carly (09:35.222)
That's how I felt. I was like, what am I gonna do? Sit around and twiddle my damn thumbs?

Mike (09:38.628)
Hehe

Bill (09:40.602)
Well, and the funny part too is that when, so when Mike and I first got sobered, we talked about this a million times, but we were in a sober living facility and the actual facility for three months, went into a three quarter house. We were there within the Keating Center, let's say system for what year and a half, right? Mike, 18 months roughly in that area. And then he and I moved in together. And even during that first, until I moved back to Wisconsin, and I know you stayed really active after I moved, but that first three years, I mean, I remember that

Mike (09:57.004)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Bill (10:09.866)
It was once we started working, you know, we go to work, we get home, grab something to eat real quick or not, and then go to a meeting, come home, then maybe eat, watch an hour of TV and go to bed. You know, and that was our day. And then, you know, so we got to be involved and really immerse ourselves in recovery. But then, you know, we start to, excuse me, you know,

get relationships back and now you got things going on with family and then you got friends and then you get all these different things and it that first year I think is huge and I know is huge for us Mike just to stay busy right.

Mike (10:46.424)
No, absolutely. Yeah. You know, and, and like you said, you know, you, you're not medicating yourself. You're not nursing hangovers. You're not chasing the whatever, you know? Um, I mean, being, getting loaded takes a lot of goddamn time.

carly (10:56.945)
Yeah.

Bill (11:00.078)
Hehehehe

carly (11:00.642)
It does. It does. I didn't realize it takes up your time. And now I realize it's like, Oh my gosh, I have all this free time. And it's like, you know, it's like, I don't have those days anymore, where I'm like out for a day and then you know, because I'm so hung over or whatever it is. And now it's just filling those time gaps. And that's why everyone's like, like to me, right now, I have so much going on. And it's like,

Mike (11:08.504)
Right.

Mike (11:15.908)
Mm-hmm.

carly (11:24.59)
but I almost need to. In order for me to stay sober, I need to be busy. I can't just sit and because that's when I start to, you know, wanting like having my cravings and stuff. I'm not, I don't, you know, cravings haven't gone away. It's been, it's almost a year they have not gone away, but they're not as intense when I'm busy.

Mike (11:36.48)
Yeah, getting in your own head.

Mike (11:49.024)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bill (11:49.102)
Right. Yeah. And then I remember hearing something very early and, uh, and whether or not, you know, you've heard this yet, or if you, you may end up hearing it from somebody, you know, people used to say every once in a while, you know, you, you can only, you can only hide in the room so long, meaning that, you know, you gotta get out there and enjoy life. But then we had people that really knew what they were talking about. They're like, do whatever you gotta do, man. Go to a lot of meetings or, or stay busy like you are, you know, whatever, whatever we gotta do.

Whatever gets us through and keeps us sober is what we're doing, as long as we're not doing anything harmful, which you're not. You know, so I was kind of, I was smiling, but also kind of laughing when you were telling me all this stuff. I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm tired just thinking about it. You know, but, but there's nothing wrong with that, you know. And like, like Mike and I, we just talked about this last episode or, you know, a couple episodes ago that, you know, both of us love having nothing to do, you know. And, but I mean, it's been, we've been sober a couple of years, but that's not even, the time isn't

carly (12:21.476)
I'm sorry.

Mike (12:39.916)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:44.22)
And we're old. We're tired. I'm tired.

carly (12:45.839)
Yeah. No, I didn't agree. I just laughed. No, I didn't agree. I just laughed.

Bill (12:46.734)
Yeah, oh, thanks, Carly. Thanks, Carly, for agreeing with that. I appreciate it. You did, that's okay. That's all right. We're fine. But, you know, the thing that is, and it's not just the time we've been sober, it is the quality and what we've done and the work that we've done. You know, so whatever cravings you're feeling or that sort of thing, those will continue to dissipate. You know, you may not, I still think, you know, Mike and I talk about it. We've had alcohol dreams,

Mike (12:51.311)
Hehehehehehehehe

carly (13:14.259)
Oh my gosh, yeah.

Bill (13:14.862)
you know, thoughts about things like that. They don't necessarily go away, but, you know, right Mike?

Mike (13:16.216)
Sure? Mm-mm.

Right, but the obsession gets lifted. I'm not obsessed with it anymore. Yes, I'm gonna think about it. Yeah, it's gonna be in my conscience for the rest of my life, that's fine. But I'm not obsessed. I'm thinking about it all the time. Do I think about it? Of course, but not constantly. And that's fine, yeah. And when I do think about it, I go, hm, yeah. And then I think about it a little more and go, how's that gonna end up making my life better? It's not, it's gonna make it worse. And then I move on.

Bill (13:22.65)
Right.

carly (13:24.738)
Ah.

Bill (13:42.766)
Hahaha

carly (13:43.779)
Yes!

carly (13:49.502)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the-

Mike (13:50.38)
Then there's the next thing to do.

Bill (13:53.374)
Yeah, you can be obsessed with things that you're doing. You can be obsessed with this positive poetry and this production that you and Breeze did and the modeling and your day job and all these other things that you're doing. These, you can have that, and I don't, obsessing is one thing. When it's a positive, I look at it as being passionate about it. Whereas when we were all seeking alcohol, drugs, whatever the hell it is that we were seeking, that's the obsession. But I mean, these are all passion things for you, it sounds like, right?

carly (14:23.018)
Yeah, definitely. And like I said, they keep my mind occupied so that it doesn't, because the minute that I'm not focusing, it's kind of like, oh, well, how can I, I know how I can fill my time, but I know that's not the answer. So I, you know, I just have to keep myself really busy. And it's funny because you guys said something about the drug and alcohol dreams. And I have those ever since I've come up to like my one month until one year.

I keep having these nightmares where I drink or drug and I wake up sweating like, oh my gosh, I have to start my year. I have to start my year over. I don't know if you still, I don't know if those dreams ever go away, but I have those nightmares and I wake up and I'm like, oh wait, it was just a dream. Okay, don't have to start one whole year over. Mm-hmm.

Bill (14:59.13)
Hehehe

Bill (15:03.527)
Yeah.

Mike (15:13.76)
Yep, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, when I yes, I still have them, not as often, but I still have them. And yeah, you know, you wake up and you look around and you go, ah, it was just a stupid dream. I'm still sober. Everything's good. Yep. And then you bring it into grateful. Yeah, I'm still sober. And I got another day to be sober again.

carly (15:24.288)
Yeah!

carly (15:33.606)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And like you said about how I about going to the meetings and everything, and somebody, you know, saying you've got to get out and, you know, some people having their opinions about whether or not you should be going to meetings, or you should be out getting your life back or whatever it is, I agree with you in the fact that it's whatever is going to keep you sober and everyone's different.

Bill (15:58.562)
Right. Yeah. And really when it comes down to it, fuck them. You know, I mean, we're all on the same path, but we could do it differently. And the key is at the end of every day, you know, is that are you still sober? And to Mike's point, you know, are you making your little corner of the world a better place? And, you know, those are his words. I mean, I didn't make that up. He did, or he stole it from somebody, but it's a good one.

Mike (15:58.604)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:20.541)
I probably stole it, but I don't remember from who.

Bill (16:23.322)
But we use it all the time. We're just sitting here trying to make our corner of the world a little bit better today. And if I didn't hurt anyone and I stayed sober today, I may have had other problems or issues or things like that, but that's a win. And there's a lot of opinionated people. And I know that you've gone to probably still do like AA meetings and things like that. You find some judgmental people in certain meetings.

carly (16:23.721)
I love that.

Mike (16:30.061)
Mm-hmm.

carly (16:39.32)
Yeah.

Bill (16:48.71)
If you don't like the way people are at one meeting, we've said this to other people, there's other meetings. Don't necessarily stop going to meetings, find one that fits you. And there's millions, if not thousands, if nothing else, there's so many meetings out there, you can pop online, you can do all these different things. And it's all about connection and people with, you've got what you're doing with just doing something from a sobriety-based thing, you've got sober connections. I mean, so do we through this and Instagram and that sort of thing.

carly (16:56.96)
Yeah.

carly (17:06.526)
Yeah.

Bill (17:18.67)
We don't know him, we don't know you, but I mean, I consider you a friend and you're somebody that we met through sobriety. And so these connections are huge.

carly (17:23.143)
Yeah, same.

carly (17:28.59)
Yeah, they really are. They keep you going. And it's like nice to have the encouragement too, from other people and people who get it too, because you know, I have, I once I reactivated my account, I have a bunch of people who follow me and stuff. But a lot of them are, you know, I've known my whole life and I don't know people's stories unless they post about it. But like, I don't know if they struggle with addiction or not. But to my knowledge, they don't. So I like

having the sober community because I feel the support and I feel the connection a little more than people, like when people, I guess with the people who are recovering out loud, you know, it's nice to have them in your corner and them liking your stuff and everything because even though people, you know, who aren't maybe, like I said, they might be, might not be, I don't know, I don't know their personal lives, but to my knowledge, aren't addicts, they're supportive, but it's different when somebody...

has experienced those similar things that you have and then you make that connection with them. Do you get what I'm saying?

Bill (18:34.202)
Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we can go anywhere. And I was just in, I was in Myrtle Beach a couple of the weeks ago when I went to a meeting and I walked into this club and I went to two meetings, one on a Friday and one on a Saturday, basically same group of people both days. But I could have been in a meeting in Wisconsin or Cleveland or any other places I've been. They're the same people, not really, but we're all speaking the same language. They all understand, I hear the same stories.

Mike (18:34.998)
Of course.

Bill (19:02.838)
And that is comforting. I can go anywhere in the world, anywhere in the world that I have friends. Just by walking into a room of Alcoholics Anonymous, I've got a room full of people who get it, who get me and understand me, regardless of what I'm feeling or saying. The sober community is cool. Instagram and all that stuff is great. But really, when you start to meet people in person at some of these meetings like that, I mean, it's almost unexplainable. You know?

carly (19:04.962)
Yeah.

carly (19:31.482)
Yeah, it is. It's really, it's awesome and it's good to have different connections and a support system, you know, and it's when you meet the people and, you know, in person and stuff. And let's say that you're having a bad day or, you know, I have my friend, I have my connections from rehab and, you know, they live in the same town as me. And if I'm having a bad day or something, like I was having the other day, I can text them and meet up with one of them. And, you know, it's just, it's a little bit different than this.

than the online people that you meet and everything. It's not like you can go grab a coffee with them. I don't necessarily call them on Instagram and like Vents. But you know, so it's nice to have a whole, all the sober community, just all the options, I guess. You have your people you meet online, then you have your people if you go to meetings or rehab that you meet in person, and then.

Bill (20:07.6)
Hahaha

carly (20:27.306)
you know, if you're having a bad day or something, you can just meet with them and see them physically, and that helps a lot. So it's just, I guess we're kind of, there's meetings everywhere and things that, because we're everywhere, you know? Ha ha ha.

Bill (20:41.366)
Right. Yeah. Yes. We're no. Yeah. Mike and I were talking about that once the first couple of meetings that I went to and they were big meetings. I'm like, the fuck did all these trucks come from? You know, and I mean, I know, I know there's, you know, plenty of people out there. But when you see, you know, 100 people or 200 people or 300 people are got Founders Day, you know, eight or 10,000 people that are standing in a stadium. It's it's mind blowing, but in a very positive way, you know. So.

Mike (20:42.76)
Mm-hmm.

carly (20:52.107)
Yeah.

Bill (21:10.126)
Just real quick with your book. So I can't remember what Instagram page I listed in the promos this week, but is your book linked through one of your Instagram pages, or which page is it linked to?

carly (21:25.058)
Uh, oh, you mean the promotion, the... that's going on for my book?

Bill (21:30.242)
No, I mean, like what I was doing, because when I do what I'll do this episode description, it's going to have a link to your Instagram. And also, do you want me to I mean, you're guessing your book is available on Amazon and that sort of thing. But so if somebody's on Instagram, and they went to one of your Instagram pages, can they click? Is there a click through link to Amazon? Or do you have that at the end of your Instagram pages or no?

carly (21:49.714)
Yeah, on the Bye Carly and Marie one. So that one is like the, cause it's like, that's my like author page. That's why it says Bye Carly. I have quite a few. I'm like a very, very busy lady.

Bill (21:58.794)
Oh, yes.

Bill (22:04.554)
Well, yeah, and when you said to email you at a different one, I'm like, oh, okay, so I got that one. Let me just see what page I have on there. But yeah, so tell us about the modeling thing. Are you doing another, like a whole other Instagram thing on that or just doing that through your normal Instagram page or how are you going to promote that or what are you doing?

carly (22:23.99)
I started a separate page for that, so I have my, I have quite a few. I have my Carly, my main one, which is Carly Reid. Then I have the By Carly, which is the, that's like my author page, that's why it's like By Carly Reid, you know what I mean, like when you write a book or something. So that's my author page, kind of my artsy page, where I post things that are by me, like a poem or writing or art.

things like that and then the modeling page, which is going to be where I do my photo shoots and stuff like that. I just, I don't know, my, I guess my mind's a little everywhere right now with everything and I'm trying to under, I'm trying to understand how to promote things and also what's going to work and stuff. Like, you know, do I want to keep, right? Do I want to write another book? If so, okay. Or.

Bill (23:08.814)
Hahaha!

carly (23:20.586)
that's great, I have this, you know, I have the Instagram that's directed towards that. So if I want to, you know, become, I guess I'm leaving my options open. Then I have my modeling page because it's like, okay, I don't want to be, you know, I have on my main account, I have people's like, you know, my friends from elementary school and their grandmother's following me. So it's like, you know, I kind of want to try and...

separate that a little. So I'm just seeing, I'm just seeing like what works. Like if I'm trying to like have my different accounts, but they're target niches. So the, you know, the trust your message. That one's obviously that targets the recovery addiction community, sobriety community. So that's like, I mean, that's like my favorite one because Breeze and I share that and it's doing great and we love it. It just feels good to post those.

other people's stories and see all the support and encouragement that it gets. So that one, trust your message. And then the artistic one, the main one and the model.

Bill (24:31.974)
Well, and what I'll do, because when I did the, just the promotions for our upcoming guests, I had your Carly Anne Marie read, but I'll change the, when I do this description, so everyone take a look at the description because it'll be on here by the time you're listening. I'll direct them towards the by Carly read page, so that's where your book is, okay?

carly (24:49.51)
Yeah, and that's also where we're doing a campaign launch for the audiobook and the paperback. And that one is going to be having information and posts and stuff that have to do with, specifically with the book, which I don't post specifically about the book on my other accounts.

Bill (25:08.598)
Okay, can I make a suggestion for you to try to make your life a little bit easier with this stuff?

Mike (25:12.797)
Hahaha!

Bill (25:14.878)
And, and I don't, I don't, we don't use Linktree. Okay. Um, I, I looked into it when we, when we first started the podcast, a couple of months in, Mike was up in Milwaukee, um, hanging out, we were hanging out for a few days and that's when we, um, set up the webpage, our podcast webpage long before our merchandise and things like that. So we decided to go all webpage where it's access to everything. So people can get to our store, our podcast, um, anywhere it's played, all that stuff. So we went that.

carly (25:14.971)
Ah!

carly (25:18.78)
Okay.

Bill (25:44.194)
Okay, but it's basically, it's basically the same thing. It's all sobered out mature shit. But for you, you've got all these different things, right? And I looked into, I looked into Linktree and I'm just thinking about it from Instagram in my opinion is great on one end, but it's not so great on the others. And I heard this to begin with, and you know, other people have said it too, Instagram's goal is to keep people within Instagram. You know, so that's why you can't post website links and things like that, external links.

carly (25:44.797)
Yeah!

carly (25:49.424)
Yeah.

carly (26:08.977)
Yeah.

Bill (26:12.974)
But Linktree is how people get around it. So for you, for instance, if you had a Linktree page that had all your information on it, it could have your poetry stuff, your modeling stuff, your Trust Your Message page, everything. And then on each one of your Instagram pages, you just have a link to your Linktree. So then people have one click to see everything for you from every one of your pages. You could have seven different Instagram pages, but all of them point to the same Linktree, okay?

carly (26:39.467)
Yeah, I do. I have a link tree. Uh-huh. Yeah, I do.

Bill (26:41.334)
Oh, you do. Okay. So it was just, yeah, when you were just saying your mind's all over the place about which way to promote where to put it, I'm like, I don't use it, but I know people who do. And it seems pretty, depending on what you're using it for, and you've got a lot of shit going on, it'd be nice if it was in one place, you know, for you.

carly (26:51.455)
Yeah.

carly (26:58.022)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I do. I have a link tree and I have a website too. And the website, what I did on the top is I broke down the tabs. So like one tab is for the book, one tab is modeling, one tab is... Yeah.

Bill (27:23.107)
Oh, so

Bill (27:38.987)
No attention spans.

Mike (27:41.217)
Right.

carly (27:41.518)
It's Human Behind the Mask by Carly Reid.

Bill (27:45.378)
Okay, perfect. And that's, yeah, that'll be in the description part too. So cool. So I don't know. I mean, how did, I think you talked a little bit about the, you know, how the book and the poetry and stuff came about. Was this literally just that when you got sober, you started to write and you did like, I want to do more. I want to add to this. I want to do this. And that's where all the entire book idea came from or how did all these things come to mind? Is it just trying to keep you busy or how did that all come about?

carly (27:48.687)
Yeah, that's awesome.

carly (28:13.298)
So when I got sober and I was fighting cravings really bad, I would start writing. And I just realized, then I started kind of rhyming the words when I was writing. And I just kind of started expressing my pain in a poetic way. And you know, and my thing was when I had a craving, I was trying to figure out what

Why? Because they say that when you're having it, when you have an addiction, you're running from something. And I didn't know what, I mean, I had an idea, but I didn't know, I wanted to really pinpoint. And as I just told you about all my different Instagram pages, I can't pinpoint. So there's, that's how the book came about, because there's a lot of underlying things that I was writing about. And so, you know, I would, I realized like, oh, I'm, um,

Bill (28:58.266)
Ha ha ha.

Mike (28:58.469)
Hehehe

carly (29:09.866)
you know, my mood's switching. And then I come to find out I have borderline personality disorders. So I actually was like writing about the different, the different personalities fight, like competing with themselves. And so I just realized like, and then another thing writing about was like, oh, I'm writing because I feel, you know, insecure today about the way I look. And then come to find out like, oh, I have really bad body dysmorphia.

So all, which, you know, kind of tied into the addiction part of it. So it's like, okay, so I was using because I was a, then it started to all make sense. It was like, okay, so I was using because I was, I didn't wanna eat, I didn't wanna be hungry. So I had my, you know, drug of choice for that. Oh, I was using because I didn't like the way I felt, my emotions were off and, you know, I was on an emotional roller coaster and I wanted it to feel normal, so.

So it all started to kind of make sense. It was like putting a puzzle together as I wrote as to why I had these cravings and why I used in the first place. And it allowed a lot of grace and compassion for myself. And as I wrote about it, I just made it my goal, like, okay, my poems are gonna be pretty hard hitters because they're gonna be very vulnerable and raw and authentic and what's the word I'm looking for?

Confronting. Yeah, truthful and confronting. But they all are gonna have a light at the end of the tunnel because that's what I was searching for. And then what I realized is as I would share my, I started to tie in my poetry with, okay, now I'm gonna paint a piece that goes with this poem. Okay, I'm gonna do a photo shoots. And I tied in my modeling like to go along with the theme of this poem. And then it just kind of all wove together. And basically then what happened is

Mike (30:40.516)
Tru- Truthful.

Bill (30:43.941)
Hehehe

carly (31:09.894)
As I started to share my poetry, I got a lot of positive feedback and a lot of people connect. It was giving me that connection that I was isolated for so long and then my poetry was a way of connecting with people, even people who weren't addicts who could relate because oh, they also had a mental health disorder or they also had body dysmorphia or an eating disorder or some sort of... So I was able to kind of touch...

the hearts of different people, not just addicts. And then that's when I kind of realized, like, I'm gonna take these different series and I'm gonna put a book together. Because I feel like you don't have to be in recovery and you don't have to be an addict to connect with my poetry or my book. And I strongly, I know that anyone who reads it is gonna feel seen and heard and somehow be able to connect with it.

So that was my goal for that and that's how that happened. But it didn't happen on purpose. Like I never thought I would publish a book ever. I never thought I would get into poetry. If you would have asked me, like, you know, before I entered recovery, I would have been like, poetry is like weird.

Bill (32:17.455)
Hahaha.

Bill (32:31.482)
Hahaha!

carly (32:33.09)
So the fact that I ended up getting into it and ended up turning my pain, it was a way to turn pain into something beautiful. And I realized how poetic pain could be. And it was a really fascinating thing. It really helped me embrace all my flaws.

Bill (32:52.13)
Right. Well, and Mike, you probably know about more about that from the artistic side of things. I mean, isn't that that's kind of like the deal with a lot of musicians and artists and things like that is turning some of that pain into something creative, right?

Mike (33:04.972)
Yeah, absolutely. And from a recovery standpoint, taking our pain and helping someone else. That's, that's how it gets better. That's the best way to make it better for ourselves. Cause it is selfish. Right. You know, we're taking this crap that we've gone through and we're relating it to other people and helping them and letting them know that they're not alone. And there's a solution.

carly (33:27.438)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you kind of connect with people and people, different people can relate because of their experience or they don't relate, but they just like your work. So like, for example, if you're young or you haven't been in love and you listen to a Taylor Swift song about a breakup, you might not be able to connect or understand, but then after you go through your first breakup, you're blasting Taylor Swift. So it's like...

Mike (33:40.025)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (33:53.702)
Hahaha.

carly (33:55.318)
That's just kind of the way art works and you just produce it based on your experience and then people come across it and they either relate or they don't. But you know, my hope, I strongly think that the poetry touches on so many different topics that it can relate with a lot of people.

Bill (34:14.874)
Well, and I thought one of the one of the best things I kind of laughed at when you said that none of this happened on purpose. I mean, that's kind of the there's so many of these things that turn out to be either helpful or fun or entertaining or, you know, whatever. Fill a void. That's what that's what this whole podcast thing did. And that's the reason I said fill a void. I felt, you know, kind of a void ish at the point that we started this and kind of needed something. I was listening to the podcast, but then.

almost from an egotistical standpoint, right Mike? We're like, fuck, we can do that. And it had.

Mike (34:45.132)
Yeah, right. Exactly. And it turns out we're actually kind of touching people and helping them too. So that's a bonus.

Bill (34:51.758)
Yeah, I know and to begin with and Mike will even still say he doesn't care. I think he does a little bit now but you know because we have we get some of these some of these comments from people and just random comments and then you know we meet all these nice people like you and Breeze and all the other guests that we've had on. You know that become you know part of this whole recovery life that we have but on top of that it just it gave Mike and I.

carly (35:07.315)
Thank you.

Bill (35:17.93)
And this goes back to the selfish side of it. It gave Mike and I an outlet every single week to talk about our recovery. And to begin with, we were like, if, if people listen, that'll be cool. If they don't fuck them, you know, and even, even to this day, and I look at it, I keep an eye on the number of plays and our, like our, um, our episode plays have been down over the last, you know, probably a month or so, I don't know why, you know, but our age group has changed. We're we've got our largest age group now. It's like the 35 to 44 range.

carly (35:29.577)
Yeah.

Bill (35:47.982)
where it used to be the 45 to 49, and then we've got some of the younger crowd now. I don't know where these people are fucking coming from, but I mean, somehow we're getting in touch with people and there's a core group of people clearly that listen to us and maybe don't hate us completely. And even if some of them do, then same thing. If people don't like what we're doing, then fine, fuck them. Say same thing with you, but you've got a far more positive thing going on than we do.

carly (35:54.274)
Mmm.

carly (36:15.679)
Oh, that's not true.

Bill (36:17.354)
I don't know. I mean, some of the you have you listen, have you listened to other recovery podcasts, we actually kind of make fun of them sometimes because they're people are so nice. And they congratulate people and we laugh. We just laugh at each other and laugh at circumstances. I don't know, it just we're different. Maybe we're there we go. We're a different breed. And you know, there, there's a maybe a small percentage that every once in a while, you know, I think we hit home with people but in

Mike (36:18.04)
Hehehe

Mike (36:28.044)
Hehe

carly (36:28.046)
Thanks for watching!

carly (36:33.17)
You're a different breed.

Bill (36:43.09)
Mike is the one that ran across and that's probably about a year ago, right? Mike, when you first started running across a lot of these normies that were listening to us just because, you know, they enjoyed the conversation.

Mike (36:49.334)
Yeah?

Yeah, exactly. They relate to us on some level. I have no idea what that level is, but I'm glad they're here.

Bill (36:56.422)
Right.

carly (36:57.118)
Yeah, or they have a son or a daughter or family member or somebody that it helps them understand a little more by listening. Yeah, that's it's kind of it's funny because it reminds me kind of my mom because you know she doesn't have the addiction issue and stuff that I do but she'll you know she'll listen to podcasts and she'll follow accounts and stuff that talk about sobriety because she knows what I'm going through.

Mike (37:00.164)
Sure.

Mike (37:05.294)
Mm-hmm

carly (37:23.466)
So you have people like that kind of jump on the bandwagon because they can relate, not because of their own personal experience, but because of somebody they know.

Bill (37:32.194)
Yeah, and I think that's exactly what a couple of people said to you, Mike, right? That it's people in their lives that have the same problems and they're able to get, it's almost like getting, I don't know, the cheat sheet on what their family member's going through.

Mike (37:36.289)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (37:44.996)
Right. You know, and they, I think they get some kind of comfort to knowing that, you know, yeah, you know, we're still fucked up, but we're doing the thing and we're not as fucked up as we were and there is hope there.

carly (37:45.146)
Exactly.

Bill (37:55.181)
Hahaha.

carly (37:57.758)
Yeah, exactly. There is hope and there is positivity in it. It doesn't have to be all bad and not, you know, addiction is something you can't help. It's helpful for people to be able to connect with others on that and realize that, especially family members who don't experience it themselves, but experience it because of somebody in the family.

Bill (38:21.41)
Right. But I mean, the same thing too is that we're having fun doing this. And I know that even though you're, you know, you're a lot of the things or all the things you're doing are occupying your time and taking away from cravings and things like that. I know for a fact, you're enjoying yourself and that's the key. You know, it's, it's helping on so many different levels. I mean, you're helping people, you're filling a void or, you know, obviously filling time and taking away from the cravings that you may have. And on top of that, they have enjoyment that comes out of it. I mean, what the, what the hell more can we ask for, right?

carly (38:35.984)
Yeah.

carly (38:48.872)
Exactly. Yeah, like I love all my little hot, I wouldn't be doing them if I, you know, if I didn't enjoy them and I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy them and I'm really, really grateful that there's other, you know, that there's outlets and things that I found that I enjoy that can take my mind off of the cravings. I'm grateful for that.

Bill (39:07.822)
Definitely. And I mean, well, what do you want to wrap up with? Do you want to just kind of go over briefly again what you're doing, where people can find you, where they can find the book? You know, obviously we'll have everything in the description, but anything else you want to just kind of wrap up everything you talked about briefly is so people know where to find you.

carly (39:22.83)
Yeah, so again, my name's Carly. You can find me on Instagram at CarlyAnnMarieReed. I have quite a few pages that we talked about. I am a home designer, a model, an artist, and a writer. And I just, you know, my new book just came out called Human Behind the Mask. And you can get that on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, anywhere you can buy books.

and the audiobook just came out this week. And right now that's available on Amazon, but it will be available on 45, over 45 platforms starting next week. Like Spotify and Audible and all those, everywhere you can get an audiobook.

Bill (40:06.594)
No shit, well that's actually very cool. Really, really cool.

carly (40:09.134)
Yeah, yeah. So, and anyway, yeah, so that pretty much wraps it up. Oh, and I'll be one year sober next Friday.

Bill (40:18.498)
Well, yeah, definitely. When you post about it, we will cheer you on. That's for damn sure. And then just remind Breeze too that once she gets the whole podcast thing in order that, you know, and I mentioned on Instagram, but yeah, definitely make sure that she reaches out to us. And if she wants to come back on and talk about it at that point, it sounds like, you know, it's in the, I don't know, the early stages of it, but whenever it's up and running, you know, we'll do the same thing for her too.

Mike (40:22.497)
Right.

carly (40:23.551)
Oh yeah, thank you guys. I can't wait for that.

carly (40:46.846)
That's awesome. Yeah, I will absolutely let her know and she told me to tell you guys hi, so Yeah

Bill (40:51.31)
Oh, tell her we say hi, hi Breeze. Yeah, hey, hey. Yeah, tell her, oh, hopefully she listens that she could hear us say hi back. What's up Breeze? And hey, Breeze, thank you again for the whole music thing you did for us at the end. We love the fuck out of it, right Mike? So, but yeah, so Mike, we still have the other.

Mike (40:53.88)
Hey.

carly (41:08.782)
Ha ha.

Mike (41:09.043)
Mm-hmm.

carly (41:11.751)
That's awesome.

Bill (41:17.454)
little web promotion there for Elise and the other individuals. So I think it's probably a good time to take a break and then we'll, we'll let Carly go, but Carly, thank you. Thank you so much for, for coming back on and we appreciate it. We really do.

carly (41:30.476)
Oh, thank you guys so much for having me again. You guys are just awesome and I love that we've connected. So thank you so much.

Mike (41:39.064)
Cool. Thanks, Carly. Well, we appreciate you coming on. And everybody hang on. We're going to have a brief word for some friends of ours. And we'll be back with just Bill and I with more nonsense right after this word.

Bill (41:39.227)
Thank you.

carly (41:50.994)
I'm sorry.

Bill (41:54.458)
All right, cool. So don't worry, Carly, we're going to cut this part out. Obviously, we're still recording, but we'll cut this part out. So I will, and I'll make sure I look it up and get it in there. But it's the buy Carly, read Instagram. I'll make sure that that's in our description so people can lead to that. And then the episode, as always, like last time, I'll have everything put together tonight. It should be out Eastern time before noon tomorrow. But I'll.

carly (42:01.166)
Okay.

carly (42:20.627)
Oh awesome.

Bill (42:22.414)
tag you as a collaborator again. You want me to hit the, the by Carly Reed pages, a collaboration page, or what do you want me to do?

carly (42:29.766)
Probably trust your message. Do tag both trust your message and the by Carly one and that would be that would be perfect

Bill (42:38.102)
Okay, so I'll get both of those pages as the collaborators. I'll have you listed in the description. Everything should be good to go. Okay, cool. And then when you, whatever the disconnect or leave the studio or whatever you're gonna do now, just make sure as soon as you click out of there, it shouldn't take more than a minute, but just keep the app up on your phone. And what's gonna happen is a box is gonna come up that's gonna say 100% uploaded.

As soon as it says that, then you're good to pop out of the app, okay?

carly (43:08.655)
Okay, all right, I'll leave that. So I'll hit end, but then just don't close the app. Okay.

Bill (43:14.594)
Yep. And then you'll see on the app, just look at it, it'll take 30 seconds to a minute. And then it'll say one, you'll see a box pop up or something that'll say 100% uploaded. And then it'll say, safe to close the app or whatever. It'll give you a message that says you're okay to shut it down. Okay. Well, cool. Eh, not a problem. Thank you. We appreciate it.

carly (43:30.577)
Okay, perfect. All right. Thank you guys so much. All right. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Have a good night. Bye.

Mike (43:34.86)
Thanks, Carly.

Bill (43:39.822)
Alrighty, bye.

Mike (43:39.948)
You too.

Bill (43:46.81)
All right, so yeah, we'll quiet down for what? Two seconds and then we'll three seconds we'll pop back in, right?

Mike (43:53.202)
Alright.

Bill (43:57.414)
All right, everyone. Welcome back. And yeah, look at that. It's just us again. Magical. Yeah, you know what? She's grown up so much. They grow up so fast, don't they? No, but son of a bitch, man. I really, I mean, it's just I knew, I see all these things pop up on Instagram. She's like, here, follow my new page. Check this out. This, that, and I'm like, eh. So I just, I follow, follow.

Mike (44:02.104)
Hi there.

Mike (44:08.258)
They do.

Mike (44:21.177)
Right.

Bill (44:23.37)
That's why I was a little confused on which pages, but everyone take a look at the description. Look on Amazon. We'll have everything in there, obviously, as you guys are listening to this. So, but yeah, check, check them out. Support her support Breeze. Two young individuals, young by age, young in sobriety, but out there kicking some ass and doing some good things. So, yeah, we just, we appreciate the hell out of them. So yeah, and she said nice things about us too. Wasn't that nice?

Mike (44:29.63)
We will.

Mike (44:41.88)
Doing the thing, man.

Mike (44:48.481)
Eh, well, you know. Hehe

Bill (44:50.758)
Well, you know, every once in a while, it's nice to have people say nice things about us. Right. So, do you have your book? Do you feel like doing your reading?

Mike (44:54.342)
It is, sure.

Mike (45:01.895)
No, I mean, I don't have it. I can grab it. It's several feet away from me.

Bill (45:06.018)
It's up to you. Well, and like I said, I know you don't feel good. It's up to you. I got things we can talk about. I just thought if you wanted to do the reading, then we could do that and Mike give us something to talk about.

Mike (45:15.988)
I didn't have one picked out, but I, like I said, I can, uh, give me two seconds. I can grab it and flip it open and read something. Hang on a minute.

Mike (45:43.627)
Mm. All right, I'm back. What?

Bill (45:48.363)
Okay. Let's,

Mike (45:49.248)
Yeah, yeah, do that. Do it.

Bill (45:53.028)
Alright man, okay Mike, over to you. Hehehehe.

Mike (45:57.49)
Um, yeah, I'm trying to think when there's something.

Mike (46:05.844)
I don't know. Like I said, I'm flipping this thing open. Sure. All right, well, let's try this. This was a couple of days ago, February 8th. I accept the universe. Margaret Fuller didn't have a chance to look her up. Recovery asks that we surrender our will, that we accept life on life's terms.

Bill (46:08.262)
That's fine, yeah, I'll retry several ones. This'll make it more fun, just having some random shit.

Mike (46:30.648)
During our act of addiction, we fought the universe or tried to bend the universe to fit our wishes. We fought not to surrender, but to keep using alcohol or drugs as long as we could. Surrender tells us to let go, to stop fighting, and to let our higher power and others in. Recovery teaches humility. Humility is about acceptance and working to find our right place in the universe.

We accept help when it is needed or offered. Humility is also about accepting the fact that we are unique but not special. We accept hope instead of hopelessness. As we find our place in the group, we attend, we start to accept the universe on its own terms and to find our own place within it. Prayer for the day.

I accept the fact that I have an illness, and I accept that I will need help. I will work with the universe instead of fighting against it. To do this, Higher Power, I need your strength. Today's action. Today I will sit down and write about five ways I have fought the universe instead of accepting it. I will share this list with my sponsor or a recovery friend.

Bill (47:49.438)
You know what's surprising though is out of all the readings that you do, this was only two days ago, but yeah, I remember that one like 100% so I thought it was kind of I almost I might have actually made a note about that one the thing that kind of cracked Me up is that you know, I mean universe that was one of the first things I wrote down because we talked about that You know that not necessarily it's a you know, the God thing or whatever I think when one of the earlier episodes I think we had talked about that the

Mike (48:01.154)
Alright.

Mike (48:10.619)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (48:14.669)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (48:18.95)
that the universe kept placing you and I together, so whether we wanted to be or not. But, you know, so at the time we didn't realize, you know, hey, look at this, all these years later, we didn't realize maybe it'd actually be a good thing to what the universe did, right?

Mike (48:24.552)
Right.

Mike (48:35.488)
Right. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I mean, there are, there are forces, uh, whatever, you know? Um, yeah, shit, you know, happens, I guess for a reason, um, you know, right. And I accept that fact today. Yeah. Sure as hell don't fight against it anymore. Cause I'm too fucking tired.

Bill (48:50.69)
Right. Yeah. And that's, that's the other thing too, that in well, and it's, and we figured out that it's fucking pointless, you know, to try to, to try to fight against the shit because we, we know what happens, you know, we, that happened all those, all those years that we were drinking or that, you know, drinking and using for, you know, for a lot of people, um, you know, that it, it doesn't help. It doesn't help to fight against any of this shit. You know, sometimes obviously

Mike (49:02.788)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (49:16.854)
Mm-mm.

Bill (49:18.734)
we've made it very clear we still have to do the work. I can't just sit here in a chair and be like, okay, make good things happen to me. I mean, that's not gonna happen. I can do the fucking work, you know, but yeah, you know, and things, I don't know, it's a weird concept though. You know, the fact that neither one of us believe in, well, I guess we don't have to believe in the, you know, the mystical creature in the sky, but you know, everything happens for a reason.

Mike (49:23.789)
Jake.

Vvvv

Mike (49:30.338)
Yeah.

Mike (49:42.532)
Nope.

Bill (49:44.25)
People are placed in our lives, I mean, I believe that. People come into our lives at the right time for the right reasons. Even if it's a bad thing, they came in for the right reason because we learned something from the motherfucker. So, right. Yeah. But I wrote down a couple of things. So I wrote down surrender our will, life on life's terms. Heard that once or twice before. The fact that we fought to keep using.

Mike (49:46.514)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (49:50.22)
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Mike (49:56.168)
If we're paying attention, yep, which is part of doing the work, paying attention.

Bill (50:14.03)
acceptance, I'm going to circle that one, and then unique but not special. I like that one. So because we always we always talk about that, you know, I mean obviously most people in recovery before we get sober we feel that what's the term? Terminally unique?

Mike (50:16.812)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (50:28.496)
Oh yeah, right. I am different than everyone else. I am special. I am right. Entitled and right. Exactly. Nope, not none of that. None of that. I'm a garden variety drunk.

Bill (50:44.218)
So how does the term unique but special apply though? Because if we're not unique, do we, are they looking at it in two different ways? You know, I mean, are we're different from our fellows? Would that be the unique?

Mike (50:56.448)
Uh, I mean, you know, we're not, we're individuals, which we are, you know, um, but I mean, we're, we're not special and we're not, I don't know how unique we are. I could, I could argue that one. Um, yeah, I mean, right. Yeah. I yeah, that I could do as well, but I don't anymore again. Um, but.

Bill (51:09.19)
Hahaha

Right. Well, you and I could argue anything, right?

Mike (51:25.024)
Yes, you know, we're individuals, so there are slight variances in us. But, you know, bottom line, we're all pretty much the same. We're all humans. If you're in this little thing with us, we're all alcoholics and drug addicts. There's not a whole lot different with any of us. You know, I mean, Bill and I have never been to prison. I've been to jail.

You know, I never had a DUI, Bill did. Right. We both had divorces. We both, you know, right. I've only had one. Right. You know, so again, you know. Ah, no, come on now. You right. That's right.

Bill (52:00.784)
Right.

Bill (52:05.062)
But I had to.

Bill (52:11.51)
God damn, wait a second, man. I'm starting to feel bad about myself. I mean, things I, I know I'm not, I'm kind of proud of like, I got divorced twice, I got a DUI and look, we're in the same place. Look at that. Right?

Mike (52:21.504)
Yeah, right. And you've never been to prison and then, right. You've never spent a lengthy time in jail. I'm sure you've been in a tank or two.

Bill (52:27.042)
Nah. Just, you know what? Only once that I spent overnight I can tell that story, you know, but yeah, go ahead.

Mike (52:32.64)
Now, now, now I'm just, uh, yeah, just bringing to the point. Yes. You know, there are, there are variances, but, um, uh, real differences. No, no. So no true uniqueness, just, just little variables here and there, but that's it. We're all pretty much the same.

Bill (52:52.61)
Yeah, and I mean, I agree with that because I and that's the thing I just said. The reason I wrote that down is because it used those two words, the unique and special, which I think mean the same thing to you and I, you know, but it said in that in that sentence, unique but not special. But yeah, I mean, I know what you mean. And, you know, the surrendering our will and life on life's terms. I mean, those are the those are like, you know, first two, three steps in there that really comes down to it, you know, that whole surrender and.

Mike (53:01.028)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (53:09.762)
Yeah.

Bill (53:20.666)
fucking life on life's terms. We've talked about that endlessly, but, and yeah, I mean.

Mike (53:24.553)
Yeah. All right. Well, and like in the reading said, you know, we, we tried to bend the universe to our own will. How'd that work out? Right. Can't bend shit.

Bill (53:34.222)
Right, right. I know. Yeah, it's so we tried though and that's that goes, that goes down to the other thing that I wrote down you know fought to keep using and that's that is, you know, part of that bending it's like oh no we're not hurting anyone we can do this I can figure this out and, you know, like I like I said to myself at some point I'm going to need to, you know, kind of bend my ways I'm gonna have to, you know, ease up a little bit.

Mike (53:39.365)
Oh yeah!

Mike (53:44.007)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (53:49.333)
Right.

Mike (53:56.833)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (54:00.01)
almost dead and detox, you know, so yeah, that's, yeah. I guess that was the time, but, and then the biggest thing, you know, obviously acceptance. We talk about that all the time, but I think, you know, and we say it, acceptance is key, right?

Mike (54:05.432)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (54:13.912)
Absolutely. Except the serenity prayer, man. Except the things we can't change. Shit, there it is. There's nothing I can do about it. I'm not gonna fight against it. Yeah, you know, I'm a mordant often than not these days. I'm just gonna, you know, acceptance, ignore it. Let it whirl. Yeah, you know, let it spin around over there cause there's nothing I can do about it. I can't stop it. I can't control it. I can't slow it down.

Bill (54:32.097)
Hahaha!

Mike (54:40.316)
I can't make it go faster. I can't make it go away. I can, I can step away from it. I can not focus my attention on it, but it's going to be there. Okay. Fine. You know, just, I have to let it not affect me in a negative way as much as I can. That's, that's where my control lies. And that's the only place my control lies is how I react to it. That's it.

Bill (55:03.334)
Right. Yeah, and it is. I mean, even to this day, control, fuck. Well, you know, you know me. I mean, I just I'm still I the only difference with well, there's some differences that my degree of wanting to control things is a hell of a lot better than it was. I mean, and it and it does get better with time and it gets better with patients with but I'm also not good at patients. But, you know, the here's the thing. And here's a it just popped into my head.

Mike (55:09.124)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (55:19.204)
Mm. Right.

Mike (55:27.723)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (55:33.162)
I started the new job on Monday. It was all training. It's all remote. They sent me all the computer equipment and things like that. I set it all up on Friday. Everything worked. I had my wireless keyboard hooked up, my wireless mouse, the whole bit. I'm all set for, you know, Monday morning. So I turn everything, the computer around before I had to log in, the synat to go back and my keyboard's not working. I'm like, well, fuck, you know, I kind of need a keyboard, right? So, um, I'm like, okay. It, to me, it looked like I thought.

My wireless keyboard went dead. So I had the keyboard that they sent me. I ran downstairs. I'm talking about this is like 10 to, you know, and I'm supposed to be on in like 10 minutes, rundown, hook that up. It's still not working. This had the other thing all said and done. I end up, I end up connecting, you know, to my, uh, with my Chromebook. And so I'm not in the system and all this shit worked on Friday in the, the trainer's very cool about it. Like, Hey, when, you know, let's, let's just start on this. You could see you would be in the zoom meeting. I could be part of the training.

Mike (56:06.07)
Right.

Bill (56:26.298)
get a hold of IT, they look at whatever, they fix it. Then it happens again that same day. Go back in, they find there's some corrupt files in this thing and then they fix it and everything's good. And then, you know, later that day, everything's fine. You know, three times though, Monday. And then fine on Tuesday, fine on Wednesday, but yesterday, keyboard just stops working on me again. And I'm like, fuck, man. So,

All said and done, it worked today. I don't know why they're supposed to be sending me another adapter, but I'm having clear computer issues and I'm getting, I'm actually physically feeling anxious about this whole thing, you know, to the point of, it wasn't even, it was a little bit anger, but not really, but it was just this, again, this nervous anxiousness. And I thought about it last night. Yeah, but when I went to bed last night, cause I thought about it, it's what you and I talked about. I'm like, I'm not really mad. So I'm.

Mike (56:59.195)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (57:13.348)
Yeah, frustration.

Bill (57:21.574)
I do my prayers, I do my 10 step that I do every night. And I'm like, okay, so back to basics here. We talk about all this shit being fear-based. And I went back, I'm like, is any of the way I'm feeling, I'm a little angry, I'm a little anxious, is this fear-based? And I thought about it. I'm like, absolutely it was, because the fact that I don't, the tools that I need to learn to do the job, to earn the money for my livelihood, it are not working and that's causing fear. It's fear for my own.

Mike (57:44.972)
Right? Eh?

Bill (57:51.018)
livelihood, you know, and then I'm

Mike (57:51.896)
Sure, you know, and throw a little ego in there too, because you know, you're just starting this new thing, you wanna show them how fucking fantastic you are. And it's slowing you down.

Bill (58:02.419)
Well, in this, did that seriously at this point? That had nothing to do with it because all we're doing is we're taking in information. Unless I'm really fantastic at taking notes. But seriously, that part of it, and I'd be the first one to say, yeah, and I am, I'm a fucking egomaniac. After listening to call study, I'm like, I could do this fucking shit. So my eagerness came out today, but not during that part of it. In my head at least.

Mike (58:08.548)
Alright.

Hehe

Mike (58:20.842)
Uh-huh.

Mike (58:24.58)
Hehehe

Bill (58:25.966)
But it was, it was that fear that this is gonna hold me back to not be able to do this thing, you know? Or at least that it's gonna put me behind and I don't wanna be behind. And then I'm like, last time I'm like, motherfucker, man, you know what, what we talk about, it's actually true. You know, you can take, I'm taking this work computer issue and really narrowed it down to fear. And I amaze myself, I'm like, fuck, that's awesome. I'm going to bed now.

Mike (58:31.14)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (58:51.844)
Hehehehehehe

Bill (58:51.898)
I'm going to sleep. And it's not awesome because it's a computer thing, but the fact that I was able to run through all the shit in my head, actually use the tools that you and I talk about on here, you know, to ease my mind so I could go to sleep. And I'm like, fuck, that's great. It's fucking awesome. Yeah, I even listen to myself every once in a while, and you. That's the thing that was the most shocking, but.

Mike (59:02.048)
Mmhmm.

Mike (59:07.352)
Yeah? Hey, this shit works. What do you know?

Mike (59:17.878)
Right.

Bill (59:19.054)
But yeah, so the acceptance part of it, once again, we had talked about everything, the serenity, obviously great and clear example, accepting the things that we cannot change and courage and blah, blah and all that stuff. But yeah, I mean, I like that reading and seriously, I remember that one as clear as day. Granted, it was only a day ago, but yeah, everyone, I think everyone's heard how bad my fucking memory is. So remembering something from yesterday is kind of a gift.

Mike (59:39.346)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (59:48.108)
Hey, that's kind of neat.

Bill (59:50.615)
It is, yeah, it's kind of, I like it. So anything else about the reading? And thank you for doing that. I know you're not feeling well, but I thought, yeah, what the hell, let's do the reading.

Mike (59:58.724)
Hmm. Sure. Yeah. So we did it. It's done.

Bill (01:00:06.222)
Right. So a couple of side note things and the first one is we got an email because I told you about that, you know, obviously Elise wants to do the night of recovery thing in Seattle. We're trying, obviously trying to get one done in Cleveland. Just so you know, they sent us kind of a, I don't know, a rough cost estimate type of thing. But one of the things that's involved is having a venue to do it.

Mike (01:00:16.533)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:00:19.748)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:00:25.796)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:00:30.115)
Right?

Bill (01:00:30.31)
And I'm just kind of mentioning it now or I'll forget to let you know. But I think you said you might know of somebody that has a venue. So when you get a minute, maybe, you know, reach out to the person, find out, kind of let them know what we're what we're trying to do, what kind of costs would be involved and stuff like that, because then we can start figuring out some other stuff and figure out if the Keating Center can be involved or there's a whole layer of shit that has to be done. But the venue is the big thing. So.

Mike (01:00:37.667)
Hmm.

Mike (01:00:54.687)
Yeah, okay. Yeah, we'll figure it out.

Bill (01:00:57.646)
Yeah, but this, yeah, the night of recovery and, you know, again, the, the individuals we had on from the Chris and Shannon a few episodes ago or four or five episodes ago now, you know, they're starting to do these things in different areas of the country. And if hopefully we're going to be able to bring one to Cleveland and they're trying to do them in Florida, they're trying to do it out in Seattle, just a good group of people doing some really good things that I think I'll say we're going to be fortunate enough, hopefully, to be involved with.

or with an in and just they're doing some good work and same thing. We were talking about with Carly and Breeze, you know, people out there doing the thing. And it's just it's cool to be a part of something like that. So we will. Hey, stay tuned, everybody. More will be revealed. And may I bitch a little bit about Spotify for podcasters for a minute? So I get this email yesterday or the day before.

Mike (01:01:36.301)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:01:39.699)
Stay tuned, more will be revealed.

Mike (01:01:47.8)
Please.

Bill (01:01:52.686)
And it's like, oh, we're going to be doing some changes as of June of 24 and whatever date it was. And I'm like, changes in like, uh, edits, whatever, in this and that. So basically what they're doing is they, um, Spotify for once they went to Spotify for podcasters, there's some sort of link they have with Riverside, which is, you know, for everyone out there, that's the recording studio that you studio that we use. And I think the beginning part was, is like video podcasts could be loaded right up into.

Spotify for podcasters for video stuff, which we've never done. So whatever. Um, but now they're making some changes. So on the Spotify for podcasters side where I do all my editing and make, do my clips and all those different things, all those editing functions are going away. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Because Riverside's got this very robust thing and it's got this whole editing stuff, but

Mike (01:02:38.34)
Mmm.

Bill (01:02:49.898)
It's harder to pinpoint and cut pieces like I do. It's easier to do on my phone. I could zoom in and cut these little pieces out and whatever, and I do these episode clips every day. So the background music that I use for our daily clips, that's all going away. So I can still use, I figured out a couple of things. Riverside has automatic clips, and that's what I'm gonna do because I'm not gonna try to fucking pinpoint all these clips out of Riverside. I love this, I love doing the editing, but I do not wanna add an extra hour.

Mike (01:02:59.551)
Mm.

Mike (01:03:19.)
Right?

Bill (01:03:19.678)
trying to grab clips out of here. When Riverside, they do these magic clips. You're like, do this, they'll generate a bunch of one minute clips. That's what I'm gonna use. I just won't have the music in the background anymore. But I'm like, god damn it. And I get it because now what they're gonna do when I went on just to check it today, when I had some time before we started recording, they're already changing the way that you build an episode on Spotify already. Because when I first went in tonight to try to, I'll just get some.

Mike (01:03:21.475)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:03:31.852)
Yeah.

Bill (01:03:48.034)
see how it was going to be set up. They're starting to make changes already. I'm like, oh fuck, how do I even do this? I figured out how to do it already, but I'm like, I hate fucking change. I'm like, I got all of this shit down. Granted, it still takes me, which I don't think is the law of time. It takes me an hour and a half or hour and 15 minutes if I have no technology issues from the time that you and I stop talking to the time it's done. That's not just cramming through, but hour and 15 minutes, I get everything set. I'm like,

Mike (01:03:58.389)
Right.

Bill (01:04:17.206)
I've got it down to a science. I don't need any more of these fucking interruptions. So anyhow, that was just my bitching about that. But you know what, everyone out there, you're still gonna get the same quality products. Yeah, exactly, whatever. It's, the one thing is just for everyone else out there, I'm not doing any more fucking work on here. You're gonna get what you're gonna get.

Mike (01:04:19.213)
Eh? Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:04:24.301)
Alright.

Mike (01:04:29.736)
Right. Quality with a K.

Bill (01:04:42.254)
You know, it's everything, I could still, I've got the program I used to cut it. We're still gonna drop our episodes in there. I could shave off the middle stuff and whatever. I could still do all that. But yeah, I'm not like doing, I'm not doing more work because you know, that would kind of make us even, I don't know, like, you professional. I don't wanna do any of that. So that was just, yeah, my bitching on that a little bit. So this came up on a podcast. We've talked about it. And I don't actually don't know if we've talked about it on here. So the...

Mike (01:05:00.312)
Nah.

Mike (01:05:04.132)
All right.

Bill (01:05:11.662)
I think it's called an acronym, right? HALT, H-A-L-T.

Mike (01:05:14.58)
Oh yeah, just, uh, where the hell did I just read that the other day? Or maybe even this morning. Yeah, it might've been.

Bill (01:05:18.586)
That was in, yeah, was that this morning? That might have been. Okay, so I thought I heard it on a podcast, but I think you're right, it was in one of the books. So for anyone out there that doesn't know, I think you're right, I think you're right. So the term, acronym, whatever it is, HALT, H-A-L-T stands for hungry, angry, lonely, and tired, okay? Which technically what we've always been told is that if you...

Mike (01:05:28.452)
I think it was keep it simple. If you want to know the truth.

Mike (01:05:37.368)
Huh. Right.

Bill (01:05:46.686)
If you're any one of those four things, that could be a problem. If you're what, two or more, that could be a real problem. Does that sound right? So that was, I just thought, I don't remember ever talking about that on here. And just what your thoughts are and I don't know which two of those or any of those, let's say happen most for you, you know, hungry, angry, lonely, tired, or what combination do you deal with?

Mike (01:05:49.674)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Mike (01:06:11.568)
Well, tired. Right. Yeah. That's definitely the one that's the biggest one for me. Um, you know, hungry, whatever, you know, I eat just fine. I'm fine with that. Um, you know, I'm actually, I've actually dropped a few pounds and so, you know, you can't lose weight if you're not hungry occasionally. Um, angry. Sure.

Bill (01:06:13.89)
Yeah, I guess we established that before, right? Yeah.

Bill (01:06:32.968)
Right.

Mike (01:06:37.472)
You know, things piss me off, but again, been doing this a while. I'm pretty good at that one now. You know, I recognize it and realize it's not real healthy for me to be angry for too long. Too angry for too long. Little angries, okay. Yeah, so you know, I'm tired and lonely. Doesn't really affect me, never has. No, that's not true. I was lonely when I was, you know, miserable, drunk.

Um, but yeah, I, you know, I like my alone time. I like being alone. I w I work by myself for the most part. Um, you know, I live by myself. Uh, lonely is not an issue for me. Never is. And, and, and thankfully now, um, you know, uh, another person is, is all I got to do is reach out, you know, because I have that support system now. So yeah, lonely is never there, but, um,

Angry yes, I have to deal with sometimes and tired. Yes, I have to be careful But you know I get some rest From Hungary I eat something if I'm angry I look at why I'm angry and we've already established It's probably because I'm scared of something which I don't want to fucking look at and I don't want to fucking admit Because I'm a man. God damn it. I'm not afraid of anything. Yeah, right afraid of fucking everything

Bill (01:07:40.422)
Hehehe

Bill (01:07:56.069)
Hehehehe

Bill (01:08:00.732)
Right.

Mike (01:08:04.792)
Um, but again, not as much as I used to be. So yes. Um, it is a helpful tool. It's, um, like all the rest of it, we need to be aware of ourselves and, and our, our feelings and our emotions and all of that. Um, but we also can't focus on them too much and we can't let them run our lives. You know, what runs our lives are the principles, you know, um,

and the absolutes, which we've talked about plenty on here too. So, if I focus on those more than being angry and lonely and tired and hungry, yeah, I'm all right.

Bill (01:08:47.202)
Right. Yeah. And I don't know, just when, when I thought about that and over, over the years, I remember hearing that pretty much right away, I think when we were really new and they said that, you know, especially if, if you've got all four of those things that can, that can cause you to, you know, to drink because you get kind of a case of the fuck-its and whatever. And I mean, I, I can't say that I've, I don't know, I probably had all four of those things at once, at least at some point when, since we've been sober.

Mike (01:08:55.527)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:00.937)
Oh yeah.

Mike (01:09:06.231)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:14.387)
Oh sure.

Bill (01:09:16.014)
But that's the one too, the lonely part. And there's a difference between, I know you for a fact, I know you said it on here, and I think you said it specifically, you and I over the years. So there's a huge difference from being alone and lonely. And I mean, I've worked remote years ago, and I don't mind working remote now. I don't mind alone time or anything like that. Which is part of it, I'm not saying that I wondered.

Mike (01:09:24.503)
Mm.

Mike (01:09:31.46)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:09:45.526)
There's a human connection that I really appreciate, but I can still get that even when I start traveling and things like that. You know, I'll be on my own, technically, but I go to a meeting, I can go, just even walking around to a fucking grocery store, or going out someplace. I don't need to stand and talk to somebody just being around people. Doing this thing every week, this is a connection. I mean, I get it, we're not face to face or anything like that, but.

Mike (01:09:48.663)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:10:05.527)
Mm-hmm.

Right?

Bill (01:10:13.934)
But I don't know, I'm sure, you know, I've had loneliness. You know, it's not something that plagues me or anything like that. Tired, I laughed at that because yeah, every morning when my fucking alarm goes off, I'm like, fuck me. And it's not that I don't like my life. I can say that when I'm going to do, or even the circumstance that I'm in at any one point, I could be going to do one of the most enjoyable things in my life. Whatever that thing might be, when I wake up that day, I'm gonna be, fuck me.

Mike (01:10:19.044)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:10:24.811)
Uh-huh.

Bill (01:10:43.366)
Because I'm tired, you know, and I'm like whether I got six hours or five hours Sometimes I've gotten like four and a half hours of sleep and I feel better than when I've gotten seven and a half I don't understand that, you know and So just recently driving down to you know to Myrtle Beach. I was up literally, you know by the time I got down there 24 hours, so I was certainly fucking tired I was alone the entire time I listened to you know, I don't know how many podcast episodes and

Mike (01:10:52.229)
Mm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:11:07.571)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:11:12.142)
whatever other maybe music in there. I was really fucking hungry, you know, but I didn't feel like drinking, you know? But the angry part, I would say out of all of them, not that it makes me wanna drink, but I think anger is the most dangerous part for all of us. I think, but I'll say for myself, definitely for me, you know?

Mike (01:11:16.192)
Well...

Mike (01:11:23.172)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:11:37.807)
Yeah, right. It's tough to be a good boy when you're all mad at the world. Right.

Bill (01:11:45.828)
Yeah, and that's why that I said this openly, you know that in definitely in recent years easily that last handful of years if not longer than that, you know, if I'm in a shitty mood, I mean, sometimes I'll just go to bed, you know, if it's, you know, thankfully, if it's if it's later on at night, whatever, and a lot of times that's what happens, you know, the day the day was full of bad fucking moments.

Mike (01:12:00.96)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (01:12:09.964)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:12:10.194)
and a lot of them, and by the time you get home and you're by yourself and you're stewing and you're going over all this shit, you're like, fuck it, I'm going to bed. You know, or if nothing else, if you have to be around people at that point, I just, I try to be quiet, you know, or, you know, because I know, maybe that's the gift. You know, the gift that we've gotten over these years is that understanding the...

Mike (01:12:18.678)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (01:12:26.2)
Yeah.

Mike (01:12:32.484)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:12:34.874)
And we talked about it at the pause. That's number one in a normal circumstance, but when you're angry, that's even more difficult, right? So, because you're pissed off at something else, but somebody does or says something, and you're like, and then you don't. You know? Ha ha. Right?

Mike (01:12:36.974)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:12:41.78)
Oh yeah, sure.

Mike (01:12:48.864)
Yeah. Right. And then you don't do the next right thing. Cause you're fucking all up in your own head. Right. And that's, and that's, I thought about this too. You know, each one of those things is, um, again, it's, um, I'm not really selfish, but certainly internalized, you know, it's, you know, our biggest problem is the unhealthy focus on ourselves, you know, always that's for me, that is the

You know, again, the root of our troubles, right? Self-sustained self-centeredness. Well, it's all self-centered. I'm hungry. I'm angry. I'm lonely. I'm tired. You know, nobody fucking cares, man. You know, what about the people around you? Maybe they're fucking tired. Maybe they're hungry. But you go make them something to eat. Go make a sandwich asshole for somebody else. Guess what? That's going to fucking take care of all that shit. Yeah. Right.

Bill (01:13:29.976)
Right.

Bill (01:13:40.356)
Right, right.

Mike (01:13:47.408)
That's it, man. It's all internalized stuff. And so, yes, that's why it's so dangerous for us because it's all me, me. And that's never good for us addicts and alcoholics. Yeah.

Bill (01:13:58.862)
Right. Yeah, I guess, you know, I didn't really think about it that way. But the hungry part, yeah, when I when I get hungry, I the only thing that if the only time I get angry when I'm hungry is if something's blocking me from eating, which usually it's not a person, it's a circumstance. You know, I'm just like, yeah, because then I do, I start to feel rundown and I'll start to get a headache. And, you know, people say hangry and I don't I've never liked that term. I just say and I said it years ago that fungri that I'm fucking hungry. You know, that's

Mike (01:14:13.032)
Right? Sure.

Mike (01:14:19.076)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:22.784)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:27.269)
Hehehehe

Bill (01:14:28.154)
That's my word. I said that to Derek one time at a restaurant. I said, Fungry. And I said, do you know what that stands for? And he's like, I don't know, 13 or 14 years old. And he's like, quietly he's like, does that stand for fucking hungry? I said, yes, it does. Yes, it does, son. And I said, I don't get hangry, man. I get Fungry. I just get fucking hungry. And I eat something, but usually it's my own goddamn fault because I didn't plan ahead. If I go someplace now and it doesn't matter where, I eat apples every morning now, I eat.

Mike (01:14:35.833)
Uh-huh.

Mike (01:14:39.793)
Hehe

Mike (01:14:50.848)
Mm-hmm, of course.

Bill (01:14:56.878)
You know, usually some peanuts, because that puts a little bit of just substance in me, you know, till lunch. And then I do that when I travel, whether I go up to Appleton or when I go out to Ohio or any place, I take a couple apples with me and I have a container of peanuts that I bought. And then so I have something to eat or I'll pack some sandwiches, you know. If I'm fucking hungry, it's my fucking fault. You know, that's why I say when only time I would get mad about is if somebody, which doesn't happen. Nobody's holding me down going.

Mike (01:15:00.664)
All right.

Mike (01:15:06.82)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:15:17.972)
Exactly.

Bill (01:15:25.582)
You can't eat motherfucker. What? But I want to.

Mike (01:15:26.828)
right. Please sir may I have some more? We're not in the orphanage man in 18th century England.

Bill (01:15:32.799)
Yeah, I mean I'm not a...

Bill (01:15:38.702)
Yeah, exactly. I'm not in an orphanage and I'm not three, having somebody smack my hand because I'm trying to grab a potato chip or something, you know. I can go ahead and eat any fucking thing I want, anytime I want. If I don't have food, it's my own goddamn fault. So yeah, it just, I think you're right. That might have been, I know it was in a reading and I think it was today and I think it was, keep it simple. So I'll give you that one because I don't remember exactly, but I'm going to give you that one.

Mike (01:15:44.747)
Right.

Mike (01:15:52.563)
Exactly.

Mike (01:15:59.736)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yep. All right. I'll take it.

Bill (01:16:07.55)
So, I don't know, I got one more thing and this was, I was listening to, and once again, through the traveling and stuff that I did, I popped into Mark Barron again. I haven't listened to his podcast in a while. And I mean, there's obviously, he's got so many episodes in there, but people that I know, but I'm like, yeah, this person, that person. So I'm flipping all the way back. I probably went, whatever episode I was listening to was back in, when did his, that chick, his girlfriend, the blonde that died?

Mike (01:16:21.247)
Uh-huh.

Bill (01:16:37.446)
Do you remember? Oh yeah, yeah. It was easily 2020 or 21 or whatever it was. So I mean, I flipped way back, but it was still, he was in a number of episodes after that. I mean, he was talking about it a lot. It was, I mean, you could clearly, I mean, he was fucking tore up about it. I get it. But he had said that in this one, I mean, both of us have, I mean, been clear, we're huge fans of Mark Maron. I love listening to him.

Mike (01:16:38.009)
Oh God, that's been a couple of years.

Mike (01:16:54.028)
Right.

Mike (01:17:03.466)
Uh-huh.

Bill (01:17:05.294)
And he goes on about his politics. It's a little much. Doesn't matter what side he's on. I don't like when people go in on politics, but I can deal with it because I like him, you know? But so he said this statement was just, I just wanted to get your opinion on it. He said, there is nothing good about grief. And I think he said, there's nothing fucking good about grief. Okay, do you agree or disagree with that statement?

Mike (01:17:12.228)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:17:24.94)
Right?

Bill (01:17:32.818)
Ah ha!

Mike (01:17:35.836)
I mean, you know, it's, it's not pleasant, but I mean, if you do it properly and get through it, you know, like everything else work it, um, your, if you do it right, you're going to come out of the other side a little bit better than you were before. You know, um, adversity makes us stronger. That's, that's real basic, you know, your muscles don't get stronger unless you're pushing against something or something's pushing against you.

Um, yeah, so, um, yeah, I mean, it would be wonderful if we never had to deal with it. But again, as we were talking about earlier, we have to accept that the universe is the way it is and grief is part of it because everything fucking dies. Um, so, um, no, I, of course I don't agree with it because there's always good in everything if we look for it and we work.

Bill (01:18:17.082)
Hehehehe

Mike (01:18:31.076)
towards the goodness in everything, even if it's garbage.

Bill (01:18:35.106)
Right. You know, and it was just, it was funny because I, and I know I was driving when, um, I think I was, I don't know, whenever I was listening to it, but it, when he said it, it just, it, it just caught my attention. I'm like, I don't agree with that, you know, because exactly what you said, it, you know, the, and let's go back to the acceptance part of it. Okay. The acceptance is that everyone dies. Everything dies. That's a great way to put it because it is everything dies at some point.

Mike (01:18:49.3)
Right.

Bill (01:19:04.986)
Whether it's tragically or whether it's naturally, whatever the deal is, that's an absolute. People, things are going to die. Unless you didn't give a fuck about the thing or the person, there's going to be some grief. If there is grief, and I learned this firsthand between I look at my dad and then my stepdad and then our mom.

Mike (01:19:07.459)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mike (01:19:18.996)
Right. Yup.

Mike (01:19:25.828)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:19:34.286)
big differences in between, you know, our stepdad and our mom, a huge amount of time, you know, 10 years, you know, within that timeframe, more than that, a little more. But the quality of my processing through that, my dad, I didn't process it at all until after I got sober and it took me, so you figure, you know, it was 10 months until I even, you know, came to grips with it, was able to, I don't know, even accept that and work through it, you know.

Mike (01:19:40.504)
Right.

Mike (01:19:52.515)
Right?

Mike (01:19:59.629)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:20:03.161)
Eh?

Bill (01:20:05.11)
Larry, you know, our stepdad was a different story. Again, it hurts and all this sort of things, but I was able to be there and be there for other people for the first time in my life, you know, in more of a spotlight type of situations. That's a bad way to put it, but you know what I mean? You know, not just through that time frame, that year in a couple of months, I mean, granted, I was being there for other people and, you know, whatever, but that was probably the most glaring, you know, or most open one that I was there for people.

Mike (01:20:18.881)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:20:25.504)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:20:31.71)
And I was able to process that and not have it ruin me for any amount of time. And the same thing with mom. I mean, that one was a tough one coming up to it and watching all the pain and all the agony and that was torturous. Just watching her deal with that illness. And then when it happened, so we get to a whole nother opportunity where we have this to be able to process that. And no, it's not, maybe another way to put this

Mike (01:20:37.448)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Mike (01:20:46.865)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:20:56.467)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:21:01.542)
There's nothing positive necessarily. It's not a positive emotion, but I think the good that comes out of it, like you said, is, you know, we become stronger for that. And, you know, we get to show who we can really be as individuals, especially, you know, us people, you know, people like you and me that were, you know, just shitty individuals for so many years. It didn't give a fuck.

Mike (01:21:05.336)
Hmm.

Mike (01:21:15.841)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:21:20.148)
Right. Exactly. And, and you even said, you know, it's because we, we cared because we love these people and we, you know, yeah, we truly cared about them that we mourn their loss. Yes. That's, that's, how could that be bad? If we didn't give a shit, we wouldn't care. And thankfully we give a shit today.

Bill (01:21:40.11)
Right? Yeah. So, all right. Like I said, it was and it wasn't, you know, I again, if I Mark Baron crossed my path today, I wouldn't say, listen, you dumb motherfucker, there is something good about grief. What the fuck's wrong with you? You should know better. You know, I that's not that.

Mike (01:21:52.318)
Right. Yeah. Right. And he probably does. It was in the moment. And right. You know, exactly. Right.

Bill (01:21:59.731)
Oh, I'm sure. And that's why I made that point that it was this wasn't, you know, a recent episode. He was he was still I mean, I know he was in the thick. He was in it. Yeah, he was in the thick of it.

Mike (01:22:06.168)
sure. Yeah, he was in it. Yeah. Yeah, he was in it. And I'm sure because he's one of us and he has the support and shit around them that you know, one of his pals, one of us looked at him and said, that's wrong. And he went, Yeah, you're right. And you know, they moved on because that's what we fucking do for each other.

Bill (01:22:21.115)
Hahaha!

Bill (01:22:25.678)
Right. Yeah, I know. It was just, I don't know. I just thought it was, it was an interesting, I've never heard anyone necessarily put it in those words. So, you know, it was, I don't know, it was, it was, I just thought it was a good thing. Whether I'd agree with it or not was not the point. It's just, I thought, you know, it was a thinking, a thinking line.

Mike (01:22:34.914)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:22:43.764)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And speaking of which, um, he re ran, um, his Wayne Kramer interview that we talked about last week. Yeah. It was from about 10 years ago and it was really good. I listened to it this week. So yeah, yeah. Check it out, man. It was a good one. Cause you know, brother Wayne, uh, was definitely one of us and has a hell of a story and yeah, it was good.

Bill (01:22:52.459)
Oh, really? Okay.

Bill (01:22:58.099)
I'll have to do that.

Bill (01:23:08.642)
I'll definitely have to and they it's it was interesting. It wasn't the day the day that it happened, but like a day or two afterwards, they the morning show I listened to, they always they do this showbiz news thing. They started doing it years ago to make fun of all the celebrities. But now they do it. They talk about births and deaths and marriages. And yet they mentioned him, you know, that he had passed away. They don't mention every celebrity that died. But yeah, they mentioned him. I'm like, I'm like, hey, I know that name. I know that name, dude.

Mike (01:23:23.718)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:23:31.178)
Right.

I know that name. I know that dude

Bill (01:23:38.426)
But yeah, so speaking of that, him rerunning stuff, one of the ones who was, oh, I know, it was when I was going up to Appleton, I was all the way back when, whenever that was that Bob Saget died, he reran all three of the Bob Saget interviews, and I never listened to those, and I'm like, oh, that was, I mean, Bob Saget, he was what he was, but I thought he was interesting enough. In the shit the conversations that he had with him, they were fucking awesome. They were just.

Mike (01:23:49.656)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:23:58.592)
Right. Oh yeah.

Mike (01:24:04.008)
Yeah, right. Yeah, actually, I listened to those when he died, too. I was still on the road when that happened. So I was listening to lots of podcasts back then. Yeah.

Bill (01:24:10.8)
Yeah.

Right? But yeah, it was great. So yeah, just, I don't know, I bounce around through different things and I always enjoy Mark Barron, but again, it's just certain things. I'm like, I wanna hear about that person, but I keep scrolling back to figure out ones that I haven't listened to. So last thing, and this isn't a topic, but just a kind of a side note question for you. So at one point, you and I were talking about maybe, talking more about like steps six and seven. It's like what we were talking about, like drop the rock or doing whatever.

Mike (01:24:28.457)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:24:40.648)
Uh huh. Right.

Bill (01:24:43.394)
So I just kind of wanted to throw that out to you again. It's not something we have to decide now, but I know that so many people, and maybe even the Drop the Rock mentioned that, called them the forgotten steps, or maybe you and I were talking about that. And even though we're not necessarily going through the steps every month now, I just think that, I think it'd be fun because both you and I realize the importance of six and seven now. So I don't know, maybe we can figure out a way to,

Mike (01:24:47.091)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:24:54.496)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (01:25:02.476)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:25:09.126)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:25:12.782)
blend this into our conversations because if people are out there and you don't know what Step 6 and 7 are, if you're not part of the whole secret society thing, look them up though. They're interesting and I think both of us would agree that you'll probably find something that you could use in them. And I think it'd be even for people who aren't necessarily AA based, I still think you could find something in those steps. So maybe...

Mike (01:25:30.164)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Mike (01:25:35.104)
Right. I think you probably still have a defective character somewhere in you. Yep.

Bill (01:25:41.698)
Right, yeah, imagine that, right? I don't know, we'll figure it out, but I think that might be something that we can fill some time with, but also in a positive way, so okay, cool. All right, so I don't know, this episode was interesting. I guess we'll see how it plays, but I like at least the idea of having the guest on for half, and then you and I get a chance. It seemed like everything went quick, but then again, you and I have only been talking for 40 minutes, so.

Mike (01:25:50.108)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mike (01:26:10.561)
Right.

Bill (01:26:11.698)
Usually when it's you and I, we get to talk for twice that long. So, but you know what? Not today because, uh, well, you don't feel good and we're, we're fucking done. So I think you can run us out of here.

Mike (01:26:14.212)
We do.

Mike (01:26:20.18)
We are, we are definitely done. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. Thank you to Carly for coming on and talking about her book and all that good stuff and, uh, you know, as always kids go out there, be good to somebody, be kind to somebody, do something nice for somebody else and don't tell anybody that you did it, just do it. Cause it's the right thing to do. Now it is that time kids.

It is that time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (01:27:05.675)
Even though you're down with the sickness, that came out pretty well. That came out pretty damn well. No. I was going to say I knew you couldn't say that without laughing. I couldn't listen to it without laughing. So all right, man. Well, you know what? I think you should feel better. And I know we'll talk soon, but I love you, brother. And yeah, we'll talk soon.

Mike (01:27:10.662)
Hehe

Mike (01:27:26.773)
I'm gonna try.

We will, I love you too. All right, bye.

Bill (01:27:33.53)
Bye.