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Feb. 17, 2024
SoberNotMature - Episode 104 (Shark Jumping)
This week we have Mike and Bill and the Season 4 finale! It's just us, but as always, we filled the time.
Mike did his reading and it was about how fragile we all were and how we now work together. We had some laughs, but it was a good conversation.
One of us has a birthday this weekend and we revisited what we think of birthdays. (It's probably what you expect)
Then we were all over the place. We talked about Lent, a radio gig, God ads, Fletch, the 10th Step, regrets, being afraid of our illness, journaling and sayings from years past.
Don't worry, there was some nonsense also.
Enjoy the episode.
Visit us
Podcast www.sobernotmature.com
Transcript
Bill (00:01.45)
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And Mike, it is actually closer to 8 p .m. me time rather than 8 p .m. real time. Yeah, we'll probably get into it. Mike had a day, we're starting a little bit later than normal, but you know, it doesn't matter to me. We always start at 8 p .m. real time on a Friday night, which is 8 p .m. Eastern.
Mike (00:16.429)
Yes it is.
Mike (00:22.413)
Hehehehehe
Bill (00:29.678)
But yeah, it is 749 central time right now. So yeah, damn close to that other thing. But yeah, so anyhow, how are you, Mike?
Mike (00:31.181)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (00:43.373)
Well, it's been a really long day. It's been a really long week. It's been a really long couple of weeks, week and a half. Yeah, I'm 90 % sure I had COVID. Yep. Yep. And I'm still getting over it. My brain's still fogged up and yeah, and other F words.
Bill (00:59.502)
Oh really?
Bill (01:10.926)
Haha, all fogged up and fucked up and all the F words involved. Well that sucks, but yeah, I mean you sound better than you did a week ago, so hopefully.
Mike (01:14.783)
Yep.
Mike (01:20.845)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely coming out of it, but uh huh. Yeah. Low energy and blah, blah, blah, blah, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.
Bill (01:29.486)
Isn't this what we're supposed to say? It's not all about us today or something like that. I don't know. No, I don't know. I don't know. It's I think it's right. Yeah, we're here for you, the listener, and I just yeah, let's let's go ahead. Remind everyone of that because because we don't we don't call off. You know, we don't call off of this podcast. We don't take a hiatus. Don't take a break. You know, now for this is episode one hundred and four, which is a wait, shit, this is the.
Mike (01:35.671)
Oh, really? All right. Fine. Well, we're here. We're here for you.
Mike (01:45.449)
Hehehehehe
Hmm. No. Nope.
Bill (01:59.534)
Oh yeah, this is the last one in season. What fuck season are we in for? Yeah, so I think, yeah, I think next week is. I was just going to do say something stupid and I can't, I'm laughing too hard to be like on this week's episode, previously on. It's not, it's not, you know, hey, we did something new coming out of here. We turned off, so here, here's the thing. Let's, let's talk just to.
Mike (02:04.631)
I don't know. Ooh, the season finale.
Mike (02:18.541)
very special episode of Sober Not Mature.
Bill (02:26.702)
just a side note of technology here. If what you're hearing right now, if you're sitting there and saying, God damn, this sounds really good tonight, it's because we turned off our echo cancellation, small thing, but whatever. So that's a different setting there. And I figured out something. So Mike, while you were out fucking having fun and gallivanting, you know, rather than starting on time, I actually went in and was looking at, so all this,
Mike (02:26.957)
Hehehehe
Mike (02:35.659)
Mmm.
Mike (02:47.821)
Oh yeah.
Uh -huh.
Bill (02:54.006)
Spotify stuff with things that I'm not gonna be able to do I figured out a couple of different things and if you remember and I know I talked about it on here but I know you'll remember when we first started on Riverside it our episodes are recording in an mp4 like a wave format which is the best audio and I had to cut them because I couldn't load up a full episode on Spotify because it was too big and I had to reduce it from mmp4 down to mp3 which is a lower it's a compressed audio lower better
Mike (02:58.475)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (03:11.533)
day.
Bill (03:23.534)
It's not as good as sound quality. So we've been recording on this lower sound quality since the beginning. But I tested it. Seriously, while I had the time doing it, I tested it. And with these changes they're making, you've got to load up one file, which I was pissed about, because I got to put everything together outside of Spotify into one file. But I figured out how to do it, did a test episode, was able to load up the entire MP4 episode, intros, web thing, the whole bit.
Mike (03:26.445)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (03:51.73)
one file. So now the reason kids that this sounds so fucking awesome is this is now in MP4, not MP3. So we're coming to you in high fidelity. Is that what it is? Will that be what it is? The digital equivalent?
Mike (04:06.733)
Sure. Well, I'm on fidelity. So there you go.
Bill (04:11.63)
Oh, ah, that's a joke, kids. That's a street theater, Liza.
Mike (04:16.877)
That is a joke, guys. The street that I live on, the house I bought is on Fidelity Avenue. Come invade my home.
Bill (04:21.806)
Yeah. But the good news is these days you're not high, so you're not high on fidelity. Hello. All right. Cool. But yeah, so I don't know. I mean, if everything works out, I already tested it, this should be in the higher quality audio. So we'll see if it makes a goddamn bit of difference. I don't know. Once again, content, we've said this before, same shit. It may just sound better. That's it. All right. So on that note,
Mike (04:28.877)
I'm not.
Mike (04:39.947)
All right.
Yup.
Mm -hmm, good.
Bill (04:47.406)
Let's get into a reading that's going to sound spectacular coming out of that sick voice of yours, too.
Mike (04:50.701)
Yeah, all right. All right, yeah, but you know, it gives me that good radio voice.
Bill (04:56.054)
I know, I was just going to say, yeah, you sound, I don't know, like somebody or something. So yeah.
Mike (05:03.673)
Well, clearly I didn't have a hell of a lot of time to prepare. Yes, it's been a day and a half. So I grabbed the book and flipped it open. And hey, guess what? July 4th, Independence Day, because we're fucking free today. So I thought that was nice.
Bill (05:23.406)
That is cool.
Mike (05:26.061)
Um, anyway, right. Yeah. I don't know. I didn't look up who the hell wrote this quote though. So whatever you're going to have to do it later or don't do it at all. Cause I don't care. And you shouldn't care either. Or maybe you do. I don't know. I'm rambling. I told you I have COVID fog brain. All right. Let's see if I could still read July 4th. We're all only fragile threads, but what a tapestry we make Jerry Ellis.
What a wonderful quote to describe the fellowship of recovery. As we meet in our healing circles, we weave together beautiful new lives, beautiful new tapestries. We take bits of wisdom and color from each other and add them to our lives. Together we weave a magical rug on which we journey to new lives and witness grand sunrises and sunsets. Alone we are fragile.
but together we are strong and colorful. Prayer for the day. Higher power, help me to remember that my strength is not in standing alone, but in standing in the middle of many. Today's action. Today I will think about the threads that go into my recovery tapestry. Who are the people I most treasure? What are my most valued experiences?
Bill (06:49.998)
tapestry. There was a lot of tapestry going on in there. We're weaving, we're coloring, we're tapestry.
Mike (06:53.997)
There was.
Mike (06:58.397)
riding magic carpets, right? So we got Steppenwolf in there, we got Carole King in there, it's a beautiful thing.
Bill (07:04.462)
I was gonna say, yeah, the Magic Carpet Ride, I like that song. Are you a fan of that song or no? This is always fun to ask you about musical things, so.
Mike (07:12.717)
Steppenwolf was a fantastic band.
Bill (07:15.47)
Okay, all right. So I like that song. So I mean, yeah, them in general, but yeah, that song, I don't know, it's a song, snappy, you could dance to it, right? All right, so I wrote down a couple of things on there, fragile threads, wisdom and color from each other. And then together we are strong. I mean, there was a lot more of the, again, the weaving and the blending and the tapestry.
Mike (07:25.483)
Right.
Bill (07:44.062)
The bobbing and the weaving and the bending over. Was there bending over in there? Shuffling over, bending, slap. Was there smacking and pulling? No. Whatever trips that trigger of yours. All right, so in the beginning part, yeah, I think from the quote was fragile threads, right? From the beginning. Which, I mean, that's just fragile in general.
Mike (07:47.053)
That's right. Right, I don't know, shuffling around.
Mike (07:55.101)
There could be, you know, whatever you're into, man.
Mike (08:01.965)
Hehehehehe
Mike (08:08.525)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (08:12.27)
I don't know. I mean, if anyone is even mildly honest, even after the fact, you know, I know I wouldn't admit it when I walked in the doors of the Fine Ed Keating Center, but I mean, I was. I was fragile and I believe you probably were too, right? Yeah, and you know what? The funny part is that, God, I don't know. We've talked so much about this.
Mike (08:18.901)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (08:23.597)
That's right.
Mmm fucking brittle man
Bill (08:40.75)
And every time it kind of, I just remember some of the stuff. It just, it blows my mind. Um, in, in a couple of things is that, you know, not, I don't recognize, I barely recognize that, that vision of myself, which is a good thing, you know? And even though I remember, you know, how I was, um, it makes me extremely uncomfortable sometimes in a good way, you know? And, um, just uneasy, you know, almost like that.
Mike (08:56.267)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (09:04.525)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Bill (09:08.372)
Like a butterfly in your stomach, but not in a good way But you know in looking back now, I mean the everything I was angry but there was based on fear I was stubborn everything that I was in clearly I was fragile, but I didn't want to admit it, you know because I I Thought I had this whole thing figured out not this whole thing, you know, certainly not sobriety But you know, I had life figured out right I was I was doing well
Mike (09:12.909)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Mike (09:26.285)
Mm -mm.
Mike (09:31.501)
That's right. Right.
Of course. Yeah, absolutely. As I believe many people say, we were grown ass men.
Bill (09:41.71)
Right, right. But, but yeah, even the even the toughest badass people, you know, that we that we've known now, you know, for years and years or heard about, you know, people that we didn't know that, you know, when they first got sober, every one of them, once again, whether it's men or women, you know, now, once they get their get that head pop, you know, out of their ass, they're hopefully they would admit how fragile they were. But yeah, I thought that was I thought that was important, the fragile thing. But so what you say, fucking brittle.
Mike (09:58.669)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (10:05.325)
Hmm. No, absolutely.
Bill (10:11.95)
Ha ha.
Mike (10:12.427)
Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes, right. Not just skating on thin ice, completely composed of thin ice.
Bill (10:18.414)
I don't think I've ever heard that composed of thin ice. I might have to write that down. I don't know what I'd want to use it, but
Mike (10:23.661)
I just came out of my head.
Bill (10:26.67)
Oh, okay. So copyright? No, that would be, would that be copyright? Trademark. No, it would be copyright because anything, yeah. That's an original work of J. Michael Harris. All right. So wisdom and color from each other. And once again, that comes with time, right? I mean, we end up to this day. I mean, we take, you know, take wisdom and get wisdom. And color, I would just think is the, I don't know, the...
Mike (10:32.221)
Trademark, I don't know. It would be copywritten, yes.
Mike (10:40.653)
Mmm.
Mike (10:47.531)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (10:54.766)
the essence of people and the personality of people we get to enjoy and, you know.
Mike (10:58.893)
No, absolutely. Right. Yeah. And you know, the different shades that make us up, you know, we're not we're not that dull gray. Not only our skin, but right. Yeah. Our souls and our minds and right. Yeah, we had we had no color. We had no depth. We had we had nothing. We were a mess.
Bill (11:20.238)
You know, it's funny is that just reminded me of, and I don't remember what podcast it was. It might've been several, but I know I heard it on one in particular. It might be the, um, the male and female podcast that I always talk about the guy that went in, you know, had to, had his little breakdown and not the little breakdown, but I'm not trying to, I'm not, not trying to minimize that, but, um, you know, I think he, he was talking about it at one point a couple of times saying that once he got sober after, after a little bit of time, you know, just like life has life has color again, you know, you start to see all like basically see life and.
Mike (11:32.523)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (11:37.739)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (11:48.525)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (11:49.614)
like Technicolor versus the black and white. And that really is, I mean, if you think back about how your life was, and I know how my life was, it was just, like you said, grim and gray and dark. And even on the sunniest day, I mean, we couldn't see beyond the nose on our face. I mean, it was just terrible.
Mike (11:53.517)
Right.
Mike (11:59.853)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike (12:09.357)
Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The difference between Kansas and Oz.
Bill (12:12.206)
You know, that's that's a great analogy. God, that's two. Come on now. That's why I'm going to mark these down. Mike's got two already today, you fucker. I'm like, I fucking fall behind and you got fucking covid braid. How can that happen? So the the last thing I wrote down, though, was together we are strong, which, you know, is kind of a duff statement. But but I mean, we always talk about that, you know, that that what Marty used to say all the time.
Mike (12:20.941)
All right, I'm done. Thank you. Good night.
Mike (12:27.501)
I don't know.
Mike (12:34.445)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Bill (12:40.856)
I get drunk, we stay sober, right?
Mike (12:44.213)
Mm -hmm, absolutely. Yeah, you know one little thin thread, but you bind them all together and you get a fat ass rope
Bill (12:51.406)
A fat ass rope. That's three. God damn you. Jesus Christ. You're on a roll. You know what? I don't know what you got to do to get COVID every week, but just, you know, I mean, it's bringing, it's bringing, I don't know, this wealth of just great, great stuff to the podcast. So just in, you know, take one for the podcast. So every, every two weeks, you know, when you're coming out of this thing, you're going to have some, I know you're going to have some color. You're being very colorful tonight. I appreciate it.
Mike (12:56.173)
Alright.
Mike (13:02.253)
HAHAHAHA
Mike (13:10.505)
Alright.
Mike (13:20.301)
All right. Right.
Bill (13:20.654)
You're just like whatever man. And then so read the action again. There was something in the action. Was it picking up people or things or whatever?
Mike (13:29.517)
Nah, I don't know. Hang on a second. Well, I mean, it was next to me. Today, I will think about the threads that go into my recovery tapestry. Who are the people I most treasure? What are my most valued experiences?
Bill (13:30.958)
Oh, you already put it away? Sorry.
Bill (13:45.614)
Gotcha. Okay. So, and I think we've, I mean, people, I think that that, I don't want to say that's easy enough, but I think it is. I mean, the circle of friends, our family, you know, obviously our kids and all that stuff. But, um, what about, what about that experiences, you know, is that most valuable experiences, right? What do you think? I mean, anything, anything that pops off the top of your head, either from, even go early on, do you, can you pick out one experience that was the most valuable that kind of like your move forward type of thing? I mean, I got one that comes right out the top of my head, but.
Mike (13:54.603)
Mm -hmm. Right. Mm -hmm.
Mike (14:04.685)
Yeah.
Mike (14:17.197)
Well, go ahead.
Bill (14:17.422)
Mine was you and I, you know, and that nine month moment, you know, is it that simple? And we joke about it and we laugh about it, but no shit. I mean, I don't know, honestly, what would have happened to me if I wouldn't have had that moment, you know, and that awakening, I guess, if you want to call it that. It was that and coming to grips with, you know, obviously the guilt that I had about being drunk at my...
Mike (14:20.589)
Yeah. Right. All right.
Mike (14:29.069)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (14:44.942)
my dad's funeral, it was two things, but they both happened within such a very short amount of time. And those were my points. Those are my most valuable points so far in sobriety, because I truly think without those, at least one of them, or both of them, but I think the one between you and I, because that was important. Getting over my dad sooner or later, I think that would have popped. But yeah, mean, without that realization, that fucking realization that...
Mike (14:46.285)
Right. Mm -hmm.
Mike (15:00.523)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (15:07.757)
her.
Bill (15:13.742)
I was complicating fucking everything, you know? I know.
Mike (15:17.837)
Of course, yeah, that's what we do, right? That's why they keep screaming at us, keep it simple. Right, yeah, you know, slow down, it's gonna happen in time, all the stupid cliches that, you know, whatever, are there for a fucking reason, man. Yeah, keep it fucking simple, this is simple. It's a simple program for complicated people.
Bill (15:32.396)
Right.
Bill (15:39.086)
Yeah, but I mean, I still look back and I only, the other reason I laugh is because, you know, I was nine months sober and, you know, I mean, going through the motions, do whatever, and, you know, I just, I still can't believe, I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but it just, it blows my mind that I couldn't fucking get it, you know? It just, I don't know.
Mike (15:47.189)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (15:58.445)
Hmm. Right. Well, I don't know. That's pretty fucking quick, man. Because, you know, there are people that have a longer time than that still haven't gotten it. You know, there are people that never get it. There are people. Yeah, you know, we know some. Right. You know, I mean, nine months isn't isn't bad at all. Really? Yeah.
Bill (16:07.662)
Yeah, that's true.
Bill (16:18.414)
Right. Yeah. And just, just for everyone out there, I don't mean that I get it. Like I got this whole sobriety thing. I just, I understood a minor point that was, uh, it was my starting point really, you know, to, to being able to, to, to stay sober, I think. And I, I truly believe that, but so that's what I mean by getting it. I still don't, I still don't got this thing or have this thing or we've talked about that plenty of times, but you know, just understanding the concept of just keeping shit simple, you know, I didn't have that for nine fucking months. So.
Mike (16:25.707)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (16:34.093)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (16:40.341)
Mm -mm. No. Sure.
Mike (16:46.731)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (16:48.046)
That's weird.
Mike (16:49.517)
Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, again, yeah, it's simple. Do these things that they suggest who there's my air quotes suggest that they do and you get the results. It is that fucking simple. Not easy.
Bill (16:52.686)
Right. All right.
Bill (16:58.144)
Ha ha!
Bill (17:04.59)
Right? But, you know, yeah, that's true. And, you know, I'm completely open about the fact that I still try to complicate it. It's the patience thing. It's wanting things to happen, you know, in my time versus, you know, whatever fucking time it takes. And I've gotten better, you know, to a point. At least I know what I'm doing. I know when I'm being a fucking ridiculous idiot, but...
Mike (17:16.969)
Alright.
Mike (17:22.637)
Mm -hmm.
Exactly.
Mike (17:30.637)
Yeah, you recognize it. You're not walking around like we used to. Like you said, I got this thing. I got things handled. I got it all figured out. Everything's great. Of course, all my problems are everyone else's fault, but.
Bill (17:33.838)
Ha ha.
Bill (17:45.358)
Yeah, and you know, it's the problem is, and I think people in general, and no offense to anyone out there, but I think people in general think that they get all these positive things going on and I got the world by the balls, I got the world by the ass, I got all this shit taken care of and everything's cool. And those are the folks that unfortunately, like, and I was a great example when my dad died. I didn't think I had everything taken care of, but I had no idea that I had no comprehension of.
Mike (18:09.611)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (18:14.774)
no coping skills or anything like that. I had no life skills up until that point. And one thing, it's a big deal, losing a parent and all that stuff. Don't get me wrong, it's a big deal. But it about took me out. And that's the unfortunate part that happens to so many people that the one big event, it crushes people. So.
Mike (18:16.193)
Right.
Mike (18:24.269)
Sure.
Mike (18:29.835)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (18:38.669)
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I mean, as you were talking about it, I was thinking, like, you know, people that have that nine months of sobriety and, you know, they're getting their shit back and they're getting, you know, and things are great and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and one little thing and they fucking relapse. Well, because they haven't built the foundation, they haven't and they haven't realized that. Like, thankfully, we remind ourselves every day we don't have this fucking thing. We've still got to do the work.
we've still got to do the basics of this thing. Otherwise, yes, one little thing, you know, this horrible fucking week and a half I've had this garbage day that I had not a garbage day, just lots and lots of bad moments. It was just long and dumb and right, you know, but I mean, yeah, you know, and I could get all self pitied and oh, it wasn't that fucking bad, you know.
Bill (19:18.574)
Right.
Mike (19:32.525)
I thankfully have that tool to sit there and go, yeah, it was garbage. And I felt like shit for a week and a half and my head hurts and, you know, for it has for a week and a half. And I'm really getting fucking tired of my head hurting. Um, but so what, you know, I'm still, I'm still sober. I'm still in my nice big old house and it's snowing outside and I'm not out in it anymore. Yeah.
Bill (19:56.27)
Right.
Mike (20:02.381)
Yeah. So right. Yeah. Little things could take us out, but you know, we've got that foundation built. We have that, that tapestry, that rug we can lay on.
Bill (20:11.982)
Right. Yeah. And I was just thinking that, uh, and I almost said that I'm, uh, well, I guess a couple of things I'm, and we talked about it, you know, how all the shit that we went through, you know, has worth and, you prior to getting sober, but also since, and I was almost, I was almost going to say that this may come out the wrong way, but, um, I've, I do value, um, all the, any of the tragic things that have happened, especially in sobriety, because, you know, they've,
Mike (20:29.453)
Right?
Bill (20:41.614)
I'm not happy that people died or bad things happen, but I'm glad I've been tested. And every time it happens, I think to myself, I'm like, fuck me. And that's when I think about what would I have done when? And am I sometimes like, like I said before, I ask myself, do you feel like drinking? Is this that bad? Which it's not, but I do, I test myself. It's kind of like poking myself like, okay, fucker, are you good?
Mike (20:42.347)
Hmm.
Mm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (20:58.539)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (21:05.197)
Right.
Mike (21:10.285)
Hmm. Right. Oh yeah, definitely. You know, I mean, well, and at this point I asked myself the question, would getting loaded make anything better? And of course the answer is no. You know, it's going to make it worse. Yeah. You know, we all know, yes, that, that initial, that's what we've been chasing for decades, that initial. Um, but yeah, it's not going to make anything better. It's going to make things worse. And, and yeah, just.
Bill (21:11.15)
It may not be good, but are you at least?
Bill (21:19.758)
Right? Right?
Mike (21:40.077)
the shit man. You will get through the other side. Always.
Bill (21:43.758)
Yeah, and same thing, whether it's been deaths or for me, I've had job things. I mean, I've been open about it. I've had everything from family deaths and relationship problems and financial issues, fucking job stuff. But here's the thing, I mean, 5 ,000, how many of fucking days that we have at this point, I haven't picked up a drink in 5 ,000 plus days and that's fucking a lot.
Mike (21:50.581)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (21:55.317)
Mm -hmm.
Sure. Yeah, me too. Right.
Mike (22:10.285)
Right? Mm -hmm.
Bill (22:11.916)
You know, no shit in this time of year and it we probably talked about this last year too But I know you and I have this conversation probably every year Once once it hits like the the first of the year that I'm like, holy shit It's only four months till anniversary, you know or four and a half and then you know It's like this time of year as I because I look at my I look at my sobriety counter every single day Just for anyone who hasn't heard me say that before I'll tell you why first of all time matters. We were taught that
Mike (22:27.531)
Right.
Mike (22:34.445)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (22:39.36)
But quality of time and we've got to be make sure that we have such as the 5 ,000 days we've we've We've accomplished some things during that time frame and it's not all my good time, but for the most part good quality time, right? You know, but It's a reminder to me You know, I've worked for every one of those days regardless and it's also a reminder to me of what I have to lose You know, so that's why that's what got me looking at that every day But it's it is it's a motivator in in both directions, you know
Mike (22:39.915)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (22:50.701)
Mm -hmm.
Right.
Mike (23:03.755)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (23:09.038)
It motivates me that, wow, look what you've done type of thing, but also look what you got to lose. But like the last week or so, I mean, every morning I'm looking at something like, motherfucker, I'm like 13 .68 or seven, whatever it's like, I mean, Jesus, God damn Christ. That's a fucking lot, you know? It's not as compared to a lot of people, but it's a fucking lot, you know?
Mike (23:13.325)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (23:27.445)
Right.
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Bill (23:32.366)
And I'm just, it blows my mind. It just, it, and that's a good thing. I'm happy that the fact that it blows my mind every time I think about it, or this time every year, it happens this time every year coming up on our anniversaries, you know? You know, it just, yeah, it just fucking blows my mind in a wonderful, wonderful way. So, but speaking of, thinking of big days coming up, two days from now, I know.
Mike (23:40.565)
Hehehehehe
Mike (23:45.645)
Right.
Mike (23:50.283)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (23:55.565)
Yeah. Yeah.
Bill (23:55.694)
I know the only the only reason I wanted to bring it up is because I want I want to hear you. I want to hear how you feel about birthdays. So we talked about this before. Mike's birthday is this coming Sunday, which is the 18th of February. So happy birthday to my friend Mike over there. And if you happen to run across him, happy birthday to him. But Mike, share with the crowd what you think about birthdays.
Mike (24:07.223)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mmm.
Mike (24:19.557)
Congratulations, your father didn't pull out. Right. Yeah, it's it's it's a celebration of something that you had absolutely nothing to fucking do with. And this this program has taught me anything. It's taught me that I need to be proud of the things that I've accomplished, not things that have been given to me, not things that have been that I didn't earn. And a birthday is.
Bill (24:23.022)
Right.
Mike (24:48.909)
nothing to do with me. Again, you know, daddy didn't pull out. It's all that fucking means.
Bill (24:48.974)
Yeah.
I know it's just the. And when when when that came up is that I think it was it was either our what our anniversary episode the first year or so a year ago on our anniversaries when I came up, we were talking about the most important days in mind. I get three that are big ones for me. My anniversary is number one. Father's Day is number two in my birthday only because I have the opportunity to get. Usually it's I get together with my kids. We have dinner.
Mike (25:06.283)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (25:13.037)
That's right. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Bill (25:20.302)
This year I drove up to Wisconsin back and had lunch with my kids and it was fucking wonderful. Because I got to hang with my kids and my grandson was there and it was just great. Obviously my son -in was there too, and Katie. So I just got to spend an hour and a half and drove six hours to spend a couple hours with my kids. And it was fucking wonderful. That's all I care about on my birthday.
Mike (25:21.261)
Right.
Mike (25:33.965)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (25:46.605)
Sure, right, yeah, but I mean, that's, you know, you don't need that fucking day on the calendar to do it, and you clearly don't, you do it all the time. Yeah, so again, the worthlessness of a birthday.
Bill (25:50.894)
Right. Right. Right.
Bill (25:57.902)
Right, well the only thing I get on my birthday, my birthday and Father's Day is they actually buy me lunch which is fun, because then I'm like, hey, you're paying, right? Well of course we are, good, good. Just fuck with him a little bit. I do that to Derek all the time when we go out, I'm like, I'll slide the check his way, or I'm like, you're paying this time, right? And he looks at me, it's just fucking funny, I like fucking with him.
Mike (26:06.029)
Hehehehe
Uh huh, good, yeah. Fuckin' A -Rat you are.
Bill (26:21.902)
So anyhow, yeah, I mean, I knew better than that or knew, I knew about the birthday thing, but that's literally why I brought it up. So the other thing I thought about, so this is Lentenow, right? And it just reminded me of...
Mike (26:28.813)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (26:35.629)
It is, yes, it started on Wednesday. Ash Wednesday, you primitive screw heads.
Bill (26:36.918)
Yeah.
But it just it reminded me of that that first year that we were that we were in Cleveland You know going to who do you know because our our home group which was literally in the in the building next to the church and Friday night, it's 7 o 'clock on a Friday night Which it was never a problem big fucking parking lot I mean never a problem getting a parking spot and then you know you go to pull in there and I don't think anything about it I think you and I rode there together that
Mike (26:48.845)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (26:56.845)
Yeah, right.
Mike (27:05.037)
Hmm? Oh yeah.
Bill (27:09.422)
you know, that first time. Yeah, and we were, Paul was like, what the fuck, man? And you're like, yeah, you're you're slent. They're there for the fucking fish fry and church or whatever the thing it is, right? And I'm like, God damn it. So yeah, whatever it is, is it six weeks, four weeks? Well, it's April.
Mike (27:11.245)
Probably. Yeah, I think we did.
Mike (27:19.423)
Yep. Mm -hmm.
Mike (27:25.357)
It's whatever it's between. Yeah, it's, you know, till Easter.
Bill (27:27.374)
Yeah, April. I think April 1st this year is Easter. I think. Oh, is it? Oh, OK. OK, so yeah, coming up a month and a half. But so, yeah, yeah, six weeks of that, you know, so six fucking Fridays in a row. We either got to and it didn't matter. You couldn't get there early because everyone was fucking there. You just cross your fingers and somehow, you know, they park fucking four blocks away to go to a goddamn AA meeting.
Mike (27:31.565)
31st of March, I believe. Yep.
Mike (27:41.227)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (27:44.909)
Right.
Mike (27:49.965)
Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cause it's, it's in our neighborhood basically. And yeah, I mean, there, there's a couple of years there where, yeah, I had to park, you know, yeah. Five blocks away and walk, right. Yep. Cause you know, they can't eat meat, so they have to eat fish, which is meat, but okay. Yep.
Bill (28:01.006)
hahahaha
Bill (28:10.958)
Right, yeah, I know. But yeah, I thought about it too. You know, it's just that you and I go in to get our pizzas on a Friday night. And like, I worry, you get, you still get the three meat pizza, right?
Mike (28:21.357)
Right?
Mike (28:25.261)
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.
Bill (28:26.926)
Yeah, so and I I do too, you know, I'm like, yeah, I've never so Lent is in it. Excuse my ignorance here, but let's more it's a Catholic thing, right? Okay. Yeah, because I even when we were kids, I mean, we were we were born into the Lutheran side of things and I just I don't I mean we didn't do a lot of you know, religious shit to begin with and did some church did the Sunday school whatever and But I just don't remember, you know, everyone's giving up shit for lent and whatever and all this different stuff We just never got involved in so
Mike (28:36.013)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike (28:43.981)
Hmm.
Mike (28:47.789)
Mm -hmm.
Right?
Bill (28:57.134)
Again, my ignorance, but I don't give a fuck one way or the other, but I thought pretty much it was a Catholic thing. So I did give up something for Lent this year, though. Lent, come on now. You kind of walked into that. I knew you knew where I was going with it. Oh, so one other thing with big days. So I was on Instagram shortly before we get on here. So our guest last week and also our guest from episode 83, Carly.
Mike (29:01.567)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (29:06.285)
I would you give up? Yep, that's what I give up every year.
Mike (29:15.371)
Uh -huh.
Bill (29:26.414)
It is her one year sober anniversary today. So yeah, congratulations, sir. Yeah. I know. Yeah. When she brought it up last week, we're both like, when it comes around, we'll congratulate you. So yeah, it is. It is. It is today. I just, I just saw it. She had just posted something. I don't know, an hour or so ago, but yeah. So if, um, yeah, if anyone has the opportunity to listen to her, um, the episode last week with us, uh, episode one zero three, and then episode 83.
Mike (29:30.541)
Congratulations. Now we can finally say it. Congratulations on a year. You finally earned it.
Mike (29:42.605)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (29:56.494)
It's her and Breeze, but yeah, she just hit a year or so. She's doing a lot of shit and doing some good shit from a recovery standpoint and lots of other stuff. But yeah, so happy sober anniversary to her.
Mike (30:09.397)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (30:09.582)
All right, so anything more on the reading or anything like that? Are tapestries woven together and bumping and slapping and pulling and poking? All right, so one other thing I wrote down and I saw that you signed up for it again, a little radio gig coming up again. So let's, Mike, talk about your radio thing. It's a big deal and I know it is to you.
Mike (30:22.027)
slapping and pulling and slap, slap, slapping sound.
Mike (30:39.213)
Yeah, it is. Yes. Well, there is a local college radio station here. WJCU at John Carroll University. And they're community funded. The college only pays for a small part of their budget. So once a year they have a radio thon. Actually, it's happening right now. They will be it continues through Sunday. Yeah. So W W W dot W J C U dot.
org if you are so inclined to throw them a couple of shekels. I do every year. JCU is important to me. Told story plenty of times. I'll give you the thumbnail version. We were it was our first my first week, maybe the second week in the Keating Center. Yeah, it was Friday night and I threw my ass in my bunk and turn the radio on and was flipping around trying to, you know,
take my mind off my miserable life and yeah, I found that they were playing like I've said before either it was either the New York Dolls or the Dead Boys and then the next song was either the Dead Boys or the New York Dolls, two of my absolute favorite bands in the world and I was like what the hell is this? Why are they playing this fantastic music? And on the radio.
Bill (31:39.406)
Hahaha
Bill (32:00.782)
Hahaha!
Mike (32:06.093)
And, uh, yeah, it turned out it was Adam and Andy music to break things by. And, um, I, you know, they are no longer on the air, but, um, they, they did their show for like 13 years and, um, I, yeah, yeah, listen to it. It was very helpful to me to have some normalcy in the midst of trying to get my shit together. Um, and, uh, it was an important part of my early sobriety.
And a guy named Bill Peters has been doing a heavy metal radio show on that station since 1982. He still does it. I was actually I listened to the first hour of the show tonight because I was still in the truck and still in my car and which I'm usually not at that point on a Friday night. And yeah, you know, it's it's so I support the station. I donate every year.
Bill (32:51.598)
Hehehehehe
Mike (33:05.709)
to the Radiothon for a couple of hours for me to go down there and play my horrible music on the radio. So yes, I've done it again. I donated last week the first night of the Radiothon and sometime this summer, probably towards the end of summer, I will be down in the studios spinning my horrible music.
Bill (33:12.302)
Ha ha.
Bill (33:29.806)
Yeah, and I saw that you saw on Facebook that you did that. So I made a note of it right away because we and it's a while. I mean, it's like six months away and we'll bring it up more as we get closer. But this will be the, you know, coming up on the third year in a row that we've talked about it out here. You know, so I'm trying to think. I'm like, was it only now? That was two. You know, it's been two so far. But but yeah, so.
Mike (33:39.371)
Mm -hmm. Sure.
Mike (33:47.339)
Right?
Mike (33:51.469)
Yeah, yeah. And it's been a right. And this is I believe my sixth time going down doing it.
Bill (33:57.006)
I think it's seven because I think you had said six last year.
Mike (34:01.389)
Hmm, I don't know. I yeah, I've been doing it a while. You know, the other show, I would go down occasionally because I you know, I they had a Facebook page and stuff. And I just I became an active listener to music to break things by and so I got to know the guys that did it. And, you know, so I ended up going down there and hanging out a couple of times and playing some music and stuff with them. Met Bill Peters because his show is on was on right before theirs.
Bill (34:02.638)
Hahaha!
Mike (34:31.561)
So I met him when I was down there and we've become friends and yeah, you know, it's just it's We get to be a part of the community, you know, not just the sober community, but we you know, it doesn't matter It's we get to do things to again make our little corner of the world a better place And this is one of the ways I do it
Bill (34:50.638)
Right. And I love the fact that where that and I'm glad you told the origin of it too, because I think it's really cool that you support and you're part of and all those sort of things. All that is truly wonderful. But I really like the fact that where it all started. And I mean, I was there because I know how you felt. And plus, plus I was there the entire time with the music to break things by. And especially when we lived together and I'd walk out there.
Mike (35:03.787)
Mm.
Mike (35:10.965)
Mm -hmm.
Right?
Mike (35:18.637)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Bill (35:20.462)
kitchen. You just fucking wail it in your room. But you know, it was cool. Like I said, I like the whole story and everything about it is cool. So yeah, it's something that, yeah, if you guys get an opportunity, you know, like Mike said, you know, support them if you can. Worst case scenario when it comes down to it, obviously listen to them. Mike has a lot of fun and you know, you can tell he has a lot of fun doing it.
Mike (35:26.219)
Hehehehehe
Mike (35:45.325)
Mm -hmm. I do.
Bill (35:48.558)
And he proves that anyone out there that thinks that we can't swear when we're in front of a microphone, he proves it once a year, at a minimum.
Mike (35:50.221)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (35:56.205)
Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Oh, it's, you know, it's a Jesuit college, man. Yeah. So there's no cursing on the air down there. Absolutely not.
Bill (36:01.454)
right
Bill (36:09.902)
Right, well, and again, it's, mean, it's radio. It's just, it's radio, you know? I mean, there's only...
Mike (36:14.765)
That is right. It's terrestrial radio. I mean, there's actually there's another college station here in town where they do, um, especially after 10 o 'clock, you know, when it opens up and stuff and they play music with horrible words in it. Um, but yeah, JCU doesn't that's, you again, it's, it's, uh, it's a Jesuit college. So they, they keep it, uh, they keep it clean. Yes. Yeah. We still play the devil music on there because you know, it's.
Bill (36:36.206)
Right. But no, like it's, yeah.
Mike (36:43.337)
Metal on metal radio, baby.
Bill (36:43.726)
Right? Yeah, but it's, I don't know, it's nice. The whole thing, the whole thing, everything about it is just nice. So, but I did make a note that I was gonna, I wanna ask you what, it's not really a test question, so maybe it is. It's a trivia question from last week. So Mike, speaking of swearing in front of a microphone, how many times do you think we said fuck last week?
Mike (36:52.341)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (37:02.445)
Mm. Uh -huh.
Mike (37:09.943)
Um, you know, I think we had a pretty low number last week. Um, I know I, well, hell I didn't talk that much, so that'll lower it right there. Um, I'm.
Bill (37:17.294)
Yeah, and we did, we did, we had a guest and you're right, it is, it wasn't a record week or anything like that. But yeah, so I'm not gonna give you more hints. I'll let you try to guess. Go down by three. It was. And I knew better because, well, it's the same thing. When we have, and I don't think,
Mike (37:25.675)
Right, exactly.
Mike (37:33.453)
72.
Mike (37:37.261)
No, I'm 69 baby. Yeah.
Bill (37:45.198)
And I don't know if there's a way for me. I suppose probably I could I don't know could filter it down and see but I if if Carly swore it all I don't think it was I don't think she swore it all I mean she's
Mike (37:56.781)
Eh, I think she did a couple times, but not a lot.
Bill (37:57.582)
She might have, yeah, she's well, she's really, she's a sweet person and a nice girl, you know, and, you know, she's not fucking filthy like us, but, but you, when, when you do it, it's, it's kind of fun. So if anyone's ever seen like, uh, I don't know a recording in, in the sound waves type of thing, we'd look at it like in an edit mode. And then when I do a search like that for a word, it puts a, it puts a dash in every one. So the, the beginning of the episode was very light in the second half of the episode, which is just us. That's where there was probably.
Mike (38:02.283)
Mm -hmm. All right.
Mike (38:21.805)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (38:26.797)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (38:27.118)
50 or 55 of them were probably in that second. It was, it was just a bunch of these yellow dashes all the way in. And I'm like, yeah, you could tell we had a guest on in the first half. But I thought that worked out well. I mean, the recording, and the thing that I thought about with the echo, I mean, all after the fact, with Carly being on her phone, I may have forgotten to turn her echo stuff on, because I heard a little bit when we were talking with her. And then,
Mike (38:30.285)
Right. So you're saying it's spiked.
Bill (38:55.278)
our recording was fine, but the quality of it turned out perfectly, even though we had somebody drop off in the middle like that, which we had with Shannon a few weeks ago too. But I don't know, it's just, I think it opens up a whole new opportunity for us maybe to have people, you know, cause if, I mean, people are busy. I mean, I know we know that, but you know, if somebody just, if we say, Hey, you know, we're recording between, you know, 8 PM and sometime between 8 PM and 9 PM pop on, we can even do something like that. It wouldn't matter, you know.
Mike (38:56.301)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (39:10.797)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (39:23.725)
Right.
Bill (39:25.582)
So it just, I don't know, it was a nice way to test it out. But yes, 69 fucks we had last week. I know, yeah, it was great. It was a record in another way. Or another dimension, let's put it that way. All right, so, you know, I guess, man, looking at the time, holy fuck, man, it's almost, yeah, why don't we, oh, and the, it's just us, our fucking worthless website promos, so, you know what?
Mike (39:26.573)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (39:33.133)
Nice.
Mike (39:37.965)
Sure.
Mike (39:46.859)
Yep.
Mike (39:50.861)
Okay, yeah, right
Bill (39:51.63)
Yeah, go ahead and listen to it people if you want, but yeah, we'll we'll horror ourselves out after after the break. So yeah, go ahead. Bye.
Mike (39:59.661)
Alright, well stay tuned for more of this scintillating conversation right after these words from our whores.
Bill (40:12.384)
All right, everyone, welcome back to the whores. That was a good one. You had me laughing on that one. I like that. So, but no, obviously the promo talks about the website and all the shit on there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and stuff. So what we always talk about, there's other ways to support the podcast, right, Mike? Would you like to remind people how they might be able to support us without spending a dime?
Mike (40:39.725)
Yes, you can like you can subscribe you can share
Bill (40:43.246)
Yeah, that's it. You know, give us a review. Yeah, that's all you gotta do. You do not even have to put any words in there. Give us a review. What it does, and seriously, from, just to remind everyone, the more positive reviews we get, it places us a little bit. And the point behind that, yes, it's a little bit selfish. We wanna grow, we wanna be placed differently and all that stuff. We wanna grow in, you know, not just in listeners and...
Mike (40:46.189)
That's it. Give us one of them five stars reviews.
Bill (41:10.638)
but also in rankings in certain areas, you know? But maybe, I don't know who, but maybe somebody out there might get something from this shit. You don't know, we don't know, you know?
Mike (41:15.085)
Sure.
Mike (41:18.667)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (41:22.861)
Exactly. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, look, assholes, if you got something out of this thing, what makes you so fucking special? Yeah, maybe other people want to fucking give some stuff out of this, too. Quit quit hogging it all to yourselves.
Bill (41:29.006)
Yeah, what he said.
Bill (41:35.15)
Ha ha ha ha!
Right! But yeah, and there's, you know, we do have the Buy Me a Coffee link that's on our website. We have, obviously, merchandise. If you want to buy some shit and actually get something back, feel free. The money part of it, the Buy Me a Coffee thing is nice. Some people have done it. We truly appreciate it. We have not received a lot of donations, but everything we do here, this doesn't cost a lot of money, but yes, there's time. There's some money involved. What we're speaking on right now, what we have attached to our heads.
the cords that we have to buy, the programs, all the things I'm talking about, this cutting shit, those things cost money, it's not a lot. We have not put ourselves into any sort of financial strain by bringing you this quality broadcast. I try every fucking time, every fucking time, but I can't, I just can't. But anyhow, so yeah, if nothing else, please, seriously.
Mike (42:22.029)
You can't even get it out, can you?
Bill (42:32.334)
Tell somebody if you got something out of it like Mike said, you selfish motherfuckers go tell somebody else. So did you watch any of the Super Bowl or no? Okay. Okay. So just the long story, the game itself was boring as fuck and like three and a half quarters of it were fucking boring and then it actually, the last half of the fourth quarter within overtime was good. I enjoyed that portion of it. It was entertaining, okay? But.
Mike (42:39.021)
That's right.
Mike (42:45.165)
Nope, not a goddamn minute of it, nope.
Bill (43:02.19)
even set that aside. Some of the commercials were good, halftime show, whatever. But here's the thing. So let me remind everyone, if I heard this figure correctly, for a 30 second ad now in the Super Bowl, it costs $7 million. Okay? I think I heard that right. So there was this long ad and I couldn't figure out what it was.
Mike (43:24.013)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (43:30.83)
about this and that. It was an ad about God. And I'm like, um, okay, so fine. This is not against God people or anything like that. If you're a God guy or a God girl, I don't give a fuck. We've talked about that plenty. We're not. We don't care. We support you. We love you guys. It's fine. Cool. Do your God thing. But, where?
Mike (43:36.653)
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Mike (43:52.333)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Bill (43:56.718)
Where does the seven million dollars come from? I know the answer. I don't necessarily. I know the answer.
Mike (44:02.189)
Well, yeah. Well, when you don't pay taxes and you pass a plate every week, you get some money.
Bill (44:06.926)
I know, yeah, and it's just, it blew my mind. And then there was another one, so that was about a God thing. And then there was another one, Mark Wahlberg, maybe Mark Wahlberg was in that one about the God thing. There was one that says blah, blah, blah, and then Jesus said, blah, blah, blah, the God ad. There were ads about the one, the kind of the theme thing. They did talk a lot about like hate speech and hating and bullying and that sort of thing. That's fine, I mean, that's cool. We.
Mike (44:35.243)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (44:35.758)
We're all about that too. I mean, we talked about that before, you know, make your little corner of the world a better place. There's no place for bullying and picking on people and all that shit. We're all about that.
Mike (44:40.077)
Sure. Yeah.
Right, yeah, we don't care what you do, just don't hurt anybody else. Right. Yeah. And if you are hurting somebody else, I'm gonna smack you in the fucking mouth.
Bill (44:46.926)
correct. And you know, for
And yeah, for these groups and organizations and coalitions or whatever you want to call, you know, these groups that get together and raise money to try to get awareness out for that, I'm all for it. Now, whether or not I donate to it, if it was somebody I knew, I might, you know, I don't get involved in that. I would give more to recovery things, but hey, that's all cool. But it just blew my fucking mind that this God and Jesus stuff. And I'm like, okay, so it's just even those two ads, that's $14 million. I just, I'm like, okay.
Again, blew my mind. That's it. I have nothing more to say about that. I just, I don't want to, because we're not religious, we're not talking about this shit. We don't talk about politics, running this fucking garbage, but it just fucking blew my mind. So once again, seven to 14 million, that's it. Okay. So yeah, that is what it is. It definitely is. Oh, I know it's my fucking brain is all over the place. So last night,
Mike (45:37.419)
All right.
Mike (45:41.325)
It is.
Bill (45:48.302)
I was watching the end of this series, oh, by Cowboy Soap Opera, Yellowstone. I watched the mid -season finale, whether or not it's coming back more episodes, doesn't matter. So I finished that and I'm just like, I wanna watch something else for another half hour, 40 minutes before I was getting ready for bed. And I flipped it on and the movie Fletch was on Netflix. And I'm like, oh fuck man, I haven't seen that in a long time. And first of all, it's from 1985. So I'm like, but it's Chevy Chase and I've seen the movie and it fucking makes me laugh. So.
Mike (45:56.523)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (46:11.469)
Ah.
Bill (46:17.902)
I started watching it. And do you remember the scene where he goes, he goes into the doctor's office and he's trying to get more information on Tim Matheson's character Stanwyck, Alan Stanwyck, whatever the his name is, the doctor that's checking him out. Did you remember that the name that he uses, the fake name in there? In one part, yeah, he uses Ted Nugent one in the doctor's office. The doctor's looking at his chart. He's asking him all the questions and then Chevy Chase is sitting on the table and he's like, so, um,
Mike (46:19.563)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (46:32.301)
Alright.
Mike (46:37.037)
believe it's Ted Nugent, isn't it? Okay.
Bill (46:48.942)
Barber, that's a weird word. He's like, Jimmy Chase is like, no, it's Babar. And he's like, Babar with two B's? And he's like, no, B -A -B -A -R. And he's like, that is two B's. He's like, no, I thought she meant two B's together. But he's like, then the doctor's like, isn't there a children's book about an elephant being Babar? And Jimmy Chase is like, I don't know, I don't have any. He's like, any children? He's like, no, what, he books about elephants. And I'm just sitting there.
Mike (46:54.861)
Ah!
Mike (47:08.363)
Hehehehehe
Mike (47:16.941)
Hehehehe.
Bill (47:17.806)
to myself fucking Babar. And I just started laughing all over again. So anyhow, that's a complete side note about, listen, I don't know what episode that was, but we have a story about Babar. So, and it makes me laugh. Okay, so what, okay, Mike, let's get down to business here. Quit fucking around, all right? I know, I said my fucking brain's all over the place. All right, so.
Mike (47:30.637)
we do.
Mike (47:37.461)
All right, all right, sorry, man.
Mike (47:43.853)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (47:44.878)
This was in God Grant Me. I haven't read this one. This thing I wrote down here. When I take my 10th step inventory today, I will ask, how did I get outside of myself today? Now this is from God Grant Me. I don't know when, but so when I take my 10th step inventory, I will ask, how did I get outside of myself today? I didn't really understand, and this wasn't necessarily recent, but does that make any sense to you? How did I get outside of myself today?
Mike (48:00.269)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (48:10.891)
Mm.
Mike (48:15.021)
Yeah, absolutely. What, you know, how did I think about others? Yeah. Yeah. What did I do for others? What are you gonna get out of my own head? I'm not the most important fucking thing in the universe. Yeah. Well, you know, how did I, how did I think about other people's feelings and, and, you know, yeah, get out of myself. Absolutely. Makes total sense to me. And, and I do that every night. You know, I'm not always completely successful, but.
Bill (48:18.2)
Oh, okay.
Bill (48:42.478)
Hahaha!
Mike (48:44.685)
But yeah, right. How did I, how did I pull my head out of my ass? Cause I need to do that on a daily basis too.
Bill (48:52.238)
Right? Yeah, and it just, when I read the words, and even read it a couple of times there, it wasn't, and I do the same thing, I just wasn't, the words weren't making sense to me. I don't understand the words that are coming out of my mouth. But no, it just, it didn't, I'm like, that's, I think that's why I wrote it down, because I didn't, it just didn't click. And I'm like, what the fuck does that even mean? You know? But, right, right.
Mike (49:01.951)
Mmm.
Great.
Mike (49:10.325)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (49:14.157)
Right. Yeah, that's no, not about getting loaded. Yeah, yeah, thinking of others. That's all.
Bill (49:21.006)
Yeah, I mean, I do that. Speaking of religious, I'm religious about doing a 10 -step every day. And that's the biggest thing. And I make sure that the thing that I've been doing, especially when I was going through that job search and stuff like that, or if I have something, this has been probably for the last couple of years or few years, if I have something stressing on my mind during the day, I try not to rehash that when I'm going to bed, if that makes sense. Because I...
Mike (49:29.035)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (49:49.517)
Mm -hmm. Oh, yeah.
Bill (49:49.71)
I used to do that, like if things were really bothering me, I'm like, oh, this and this, and I gotta work on this and this person and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just kind of getting myself all fired up. And what I've been doing again, probably for the last couple of years is just, you know, pop into my head. I'm like, no, I don't need to deal with that right now. It is what it is type of thing. And then, you know, it just, I always ask myself, how was my day? What, what did I do? How did things go? You know, same thing. I think that we're supposed to do.
Mike (49:56.941)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (50:08.973)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (50:16.206)
Was I a good boy? Did I try to make my little corner of the world a better place? Did I hurt anybody? Do I owe anyone an apology? Which thankfully, and I think we talked about that, I cannot remember thankfully the last time that I laid down at night like that and thought, fuck me, I need to talk to somebody. It's been a long time, I think, so.
Mike (50:26.765)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (50:34.893)
Yeah, right.
Mm -hmm. It has. Yeah, that's a good thing.
Bill (50:40.974)
Right. Yeah, in the fact that I cannot remember it, yeah, by all means. So, all right, so I have, God, I have a bunch of these things written down from the recovery books. I haven't read this one recently either, so let's just read it from, keep it simple. Do you let yourself be afraid of your illness? You'd better. Many of us were scared into sobriety. Often a spiritual awakening directly follows a good scare.
Mike (50:49.933)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (51:09.55)
fear seems to improve our vision. Does that ring true to you? Being afraid that we better be afraid because we're scared in sobriety, all that sort of thing. Does that make any sense?
Mike (51:24.509)
to the extent that we need to realize that our disease is a power crater in ourselves. You know, cutting, baffling and powerful. Powerful, yeah. You know, a healthy fear of, you know, which is in part remembering what the fuck it did to us, what it made us become. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I can't.
live my life. Oh, I'm so scared of my disease. No, but I have to have that healthy fear of it and remember just how fucking powerful it is and what it is capable of doing to me. Absolutely. Yes.
Bill (51:54.03)
Heheheheh
Bill (52:06.638)
Right. Well, and when the, the one part of it where it says many of us were scared into, into sobriety, um, I mean, at the time, you know, and I said for the longest time that I was, uh, you know, taking the detox and taking it to the Keating center, which I mean, I was, you know, but, um, and I, I used to always say that I was, you know, didn't want to get sober, which I did not, uh, that, that's still, I mean, I still hold true to that, you know, but I wasn't really forced. I had no place else to go.
Mike (52:15.659)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (52:24.811)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (52:36.558)
You know, so I guess in the, if you really, you know, tear everything down, I was scared into sobriety because the only other alternative was nothingness. You know, and really, even though the fucking doctor said to me, you know, three weeks to live and this and that, I heard him, but I listened, but I didn't really, I don't think I, I know for a fact, I didn't completely comprehend all of that. Right.
Mike (52:38.157)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (52:45.645)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (52:50.797)
hate.
Mike (52:57.677)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (53:03.949)
No, of course not. Well, or believe it completely. Right. At that point, you know, we're still, we're still in our fucking disease, man. You know, it's been a couple hours since we had our last drink, um, you know, or a day or two or whatever the hell it was, but right. Yeah. We're still very much in our disease. We're not going to believe that. Of course not. What the hell are you talking about? I, you know, I made it this far.
Bill (53:28.494)
Heheheheh
Mike (53:31.021)
You know, we're fucking delusional up to our eyeballs. Yeah, of course, we're not going to truly believe it. Um, you know, even though it is absolutely true. Yeah. Keep doing what you're going to do. You got a month if you're lucky. Right. Yeah. But no, of course we don't believe it. So how can we have the true fear of that statement when we don't believe it and understand it? And yeah, it's just not.
Bill (53:44.206)
Right.
Mike (53:59.885)
comprehensible to us at all. At all.
Bill (54:02.926)
Well, even think about that. I mean, granted, I was, and I'm not taking away from the fact that I was a fucking mess. I mean, the amount that I was drinking and my blood alcohol level when I went in and all the medical tests and all those different things that they did, you know, but if on the surface, you know, if nothing else on the outside, yeah, it looked like shit and whatever it was, but I was waking up every day. I was walking around through life. You know, I wasn't throwing up.
Mike (54:15.115)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (54:25.867)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (54:28.846)
blood or shitting myself or you know, it's not like I wasn't sitting. But you know what I mean? You know, it's like I wasn't, it's not like you're like a like a cancer patient where you know, all these it's, it's visible, but it but it wasn't. So all this damage you were doing, basically, you know, we were we were killing ourselves from the inside. And what it was doing to our organs, you know, obviously, a slowly coming on the outside, but sooner or later, the organs are just going to be so like, fuck it, I'm done.
Mike (54:29.261)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -mm. Not daily, anyway.
Mike (54:38.829)
Oh, I know. Right.
Bill (54:58.094)
I ain't dealing with this shit no more. You know and I know I've said it on here before I had I Had they couldn't regulate my blood pressure, you know when I was a detox I'm sitting there watching a fucking movie and my blood pressure was spiking, you know Crazy and I'm wondering why I was fucking hot all the time Like whoo, it's why I so fucking warm
Mike (54:59.917)
Right, yeah. Uh -huh.
Mike (55:09.037)
Right. Mm -hmm.
Mike (55:18.987)
Right.
Bill (55:22.83)
Because my blood inside of me, every blood vessel in, basically everything's about ready to explode out of my body. But yeah, and I don't know, it's just that everything that we were doing, it is, I suppose it is hard to believe, even when you get delusional. You said it, that's the best way to put it is that, I don't know, it doesn't matter. They were giving us all the facts right on paper here. This is how fucked up you are. Really? Okay, thank you. Thank.
Mike (55:23.181)
Hehehehehe
Mike (55:30.635)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (55:49.227)
Mm -hmm. Right. Yeah, right, yeah. We've believed our own fucking lies for so long. Yeah, we can't even recognize the truth anymore.
Bill (55:53.71)
Yeah
Bill (55:58.766)
Right. Yeah, I don't know. It just I don't know. It's baffling. As I sit here, I'm trying to think. I had nothing else to say about it. Just fucking mind blowing and baffling. And I'm glad that I'm not there anymore. You know, glad I was glad I'm outside of that. Oh, it's kind of funny. There was three different people that started at this company that I'm working at on the same day. One guy was going to the agency side and me and another guy were going on the law firm side. So.
Mike (56:11.629)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (56:15.595)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (56:29.358)
with our with our manager at least once or twice a day we get together. He just does a check in. How are things going and this and that? He's got us off working stuff and doing stuff on our own. But he was talking about he had, I don't know, went someplace that was a birthday dinner for one of his kids. They went out and they were just late at a restaurant like the other night. He's like, he goes, I wasn't even he goes, hey, guys, I had I had one beer. He goes, but we didn't leave the restaurant. He goes, it's so busy. So many people. We didn't even leave the restaurant till like 1030. He's one that like gets to the office at like seven a .m. or whatever.
Mike (56:29.579)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (56:59.694)
So he was telling me, he goes, I'm exhausted today. And he goes, here's the thing, he goes, towards the end of the day, he said, make sure you guys obviously get some rest, rest your brains, kind of study up on some of the stuff we were doing. But he brought up the fact, he goes, this is not, not that I've never done it before, he's like 50 years old. I mean, he's not like a young guy, but he goes, I don't understand how people could do this job.
Mike (57:00.845)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (57:13.261)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (57:21.805)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (57:26.414)
and go out and party every night or stuff like that. He goes, you need to, and there is, there's a lot to learn. There's a lot to comprehend. I mean, it's detailed shit we're doing, you know? And I'm just kind of laughing to myself, thinking, God, I tried for fucking years to do jobs like this. Some that were quote unquote easier and some that weren't, but yeah, I'm like, that's.
Mike (57:34.925)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
All right.
Mike (57:42.365)
Hehehehehe
Bill (57:50.51)
Just made me think about that. I'm like, yeah, I'm so fucking glad. I woke up today, you know, a couple of days in a row. I was kind of tired, but that's my own fault. You know, I stayed up later than I should have. You know, it's not from being out all night or even being in all night, you know, drinking until whenever and, you know, being fucking hungover. So, but okay, we're there.
Mike (58:00.107)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (58:07.149)
Right. Eh.
Yeah, I'm fine. I yawned. Sorry. It's...
Bill (58:12.398)
No, I know. So along this whole lines, this was written down, I just wrote this down, I don't know, like a week ago maybe. And I don't remember where I heard this from, but I've heard plenty of people say it. Maybe I just saw it on Instagram. So the phrase, no one ever regretted giving up alcohol or drugs. Do you agree completely with that statement?
Mike (58:38.733)
Hmm, of course not. I'm a fucking alcoholic and a junkie. No, of course not. Regret it. I mean, I understand it. I am infinitely grateful that I did today. But no, of course. I mean, again, the great obsession. I wish I could drink like normal people. I wish I could use like, you know, yeah, on the weekends.
Bill (58:40.11)
Ha ha ha ha!
Mike (59:08.045)
Yeah, of course. I miss it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I understand. Yeah, you know, I had to stop or we just talked about it or I'd be dead. So I am grateful that I'm still alive.
Bill (59:18.766)
Ha! Right.
Bill (59:24.11)
Yeah, and it was the way that the, and I put it this way because I have like, I didn't agree with this statement. I see it sometimes where it says nobody ever regretted getting sober. So there's a different statement. So I want to put it the other way. Okay, so you agree with that one.
Mike (59:34.029)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah, that I agree with. Right. Yeah. I don't regret getting sober. Absolutely not. You know, but giving up alcohol and drugs. Of course I, they were fun, man. They made me feel good.
Bill (59:45.614)
Right, okay.
Bill (59:49.55)
Hahaha!
Bill (59:53.71)
Right? Well, and that goes back to something we've talked about plenty of times. There's a huge difference between just giving up booze and drugs and getting sober, you know. Or if people even want to use the term being, you know, completely in recovery, you know. Whether you want to use recovery or sober, there's a difference there. You know, it's a lifestyle. It's more than just putting down the bottle or the pills or the...
Mike (01:00:08.493)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:00:16.331)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:00:22.862)
the pipe or the needle, it's sobriety and recovery are a way, way different thing than that. So that's why I wrote it down though, the alcohol and drugs part, because I agree with you. There's, well, two things, there's plenty of people, you and I having those regrets of, yeah, wish we were different, wish we could, we can't, but because we've been 100 % honest that we had a lot of fucking fun in certain circumstances. And -
Mike (01:00:24.557)
Absolutely.
Mike (01:00:32.269)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:00:37.003)
Mm.
Mike (01:00:44.747)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:00:52.523)
God damn right.
Bill (01:00:52.622)
And what I would call, whether you want to even call, I'm not even going to go so far as call it healthy fun, but it was good, clean fun, you know, until it wasn't, you know, plenty of times, whether it doesn't even matter. I can give a ton of circumstances where I'm like, that was fucking fun. And the fact that I was drinking, you know, didn't maybe it added to it. Maybe it didn't, but those two things happened, this event and the booze and I had a wonderful fucking time, you know, and.
Mike (01:01:00.685)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:01:09.739)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:01:15.469)
Mm -hmm.
Oh, absolutely. And then of course, there was those wonderful times where we had bad dirty fun.
Bill (01:01:21.806)
Right. But then again, you know, towards the end, then those times no longer fun because we had the drink. You know, we were doing it alone. We were hurting other people. Even when we were 100 miles away in a hotel room by ourselves, right, like you always say. You know, and.
Mike (01:01:25.813)
Uh -huh.
Mike (01:01:33.005)
No, they weren't. Yeah, right.
Hmm?
Mike (01:01:40.749)
That's right. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. And shit, you know, again, one fun, we were just trying to get fucking healthy. We're just trying to not be sick. Yeah. You know, just trying not to feel bad. Right. Wasn't even feeling good anymore. It was just not feeling bad. Yep. Yippee.
Bill (01:01:56.846)
Right. Yeah, but. But yeah, so that's and I that's why I wanted to bring that up that the sober part after the fact, because I that there's a huge difference with that. I mean, that's I mean, I couldn't. Well, and we've known we've known people, you know, that are what do you want to call them? You know, the typical term for it is a dry drunk, you know, somebody that just just stopped, you know, change their breath is, as they say, and, you know, didn't do anything else. And there's always, always, always.
Mike (01:02:10.345)
Absolutely.
Mike (01:02:18.795)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:02:22.861)
out.
Bill (01:02:25.838)
And I'm not necessarily an always or never type of guy in most circumstances, but when it comes to alcoholism and drug abuse, I mean, there's always something underneath it. And I'm not even talking about, yeah, maybe there was trauma and anything like that, but there's more to work on with that individual than just putting down the bottle or the drugs.
Mike (01:02:41.517)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:02:46.989)
Absolutely. Yeah, right. Yeah. Alcohol is just a symptom. Yep. Yeah. So I read it somewhere.
Bill (01:02:50.062)
Right. Wait, I've heard that before. All right. Yeah. And I mean, I wasn't I wasn't a wonderful human being when I when I didn't have any booze in me at that point, you know.
Mike (01:03:03.123)
Fuck no. No, actually it was much worse. I was better off with a couple pops of me at that point because yeah, right. Oh God, no. God, horrible, miserable piece of garbage when I was fucking dry and you know, no, no, no, I was even worse. Yeah.
Bill (01:03:07.596)
Hahaha.
Bill (01:03:22.35)
Well, and that's the thing too, that if there is anyone that's listening to us that is, let's just say new -ish, or newly sober, or kind of new -ish at this, or even taking a poke at it, maybe you did, the dry January in Europe, a few couple of weeks into February, and you quit drinking. The thing of it is that's cool is that, and I think we've talked about it, but other people, people around you, if you...
Mike (01:03:31.597)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Right?
Mike (01:03:41.165)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:03:50.222)
put down the booze, put down the drugs, and then start working on other things and trying to be that better person, you're not necessarily gonna notice it in yourself, but other people are gonna start saying something like, hey, what's different? Or even people that haven't seen you in a long time, when they finally see you, they're like, you're a completely different person than you were before. They know you quit drinking or got sober, but there's a...
Mike (01:03:57.261)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:04:00.781)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:04:04.757)
Right.
Mike (01:04:08.653)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:04:15.021)
Sure, sure.
Bill (01:04:15.854)
We change. It's inevitable if you do the work. You're going to change in a positive way if you do the work, right? Yeah. It's actually, I mean, I was going to say kind of satisfying. It's hugely satisfying to have somebody say something like that because what it does is that all this, what we feel like all this shit that we did, all this shit that we gave up,
Mike (01:04:24.557)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Absolutely. Yep. A little light in your eye.
Mike (01:04:35.883)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:04:45.366)
You know, at that point, which it's not, you know, but that's how we feel. You know, I had to give up this, I can't do this and blah, blah, blah. And I got to go to all these fucking meetings. I know I got to do all these things. I got to pray and I got to read a book. And, you know, all of a sudden it, you know, you see the worth behind it just like everything else. But it's a, it's a worth that I, I don't know. I don't think either one of us can explain how fucking wonderful it is. Right?
Mike (01:04:51.149)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:04:54.925)
Right.
Mike (01:04:59.725)
Uh -huh. Uh -huh.
Mike (01:05:14.413)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, peace and serenity, man. Peace, serenity, and freedom.
Bill (01:05:16.364)
Yeah.
Yeah, the freedom is the big thing and we got we talked about that a ton just a ton
Mike (01:05:26.283)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well, again, yes, the substances themselves, of course, I regret not being able to do them anymore, but not being a slave to those substances anymore, fucking wonderful, man.
Bill (01:05:41.39)
Right, right. Yeah, and we've told plenty of stories about that. It just, it's, I can't even, you know, I think back now, and both of us have said it, it makes both of us just tired, you know, trying to think about all the work we did, you know, to stay, like you just said a few minutes ago, to stay healthy. You know, and it's just, it's crazy. It's just absolutely fucking crazy, just crazy.
Mike (01:06:03.541)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:06:10.54)
All right, so I'm going to dig back here over to page two. And these were older ones. Just one caught my eye. If you ever heard, do we ever talk about survivors guilt?
The term? Okay, so let me just read this up and see if this sounds familiar if it is, I'll on to something else. It's the concept that we are here and sober and others lost their lives to this disease. People that are in the same place as us. Do we ever feel, do we as people ever feel guilt or do you ever feel any type of a guilt feeling? That's what survivor's guilt is. And I don't remember if we've ever talked about it. Did we? Okay.
Mike (01:06:24.469)
Uh, yeah, I think we did.
Mike (01:06:46.541)
Right, yeah, we did. And my answer's the same as it was then. I've done the work and I've gotten the results and why the fuck am I gonna feel guilty about that? Yeah.
Bill (01:06:57.518)
Okay, yeah, and yeah, as soon as I was reading that, I was pretty sure we did, but.
I was pretty sure we did. Okay.
Mike (01:07:05.869)
Yeah, yeah, right. No, there's nothing to feel guilty about. You know, do I feel bad that those people aren't around anymore? Of course I do. Do I realize that it very easily could have been me? Of course it is. But, no, again, on a daily basis, I do these things that they told me to do so I get the results. And I'm not gonna feel guilty about that. Of course not, no.
Bill (01:07:31.79)
Yeah, well, and we've, one of the things we've said very openly is the, it's the why me type of situation, you know? And that could be on a good and a bad type of situation. Some bad shit or a bad moment happens, you know, like why me? You know, and, but on the other side of things, why not me? Why am I so fucking special? You know, there's nothing special about me that prevents me from having a bad thing, a bad moment or a bad circumstance happen. I could be doing all the positive shit in the world. I'm not immune.
Mike (01:07:40.181)
Right.
Mike (01:07:50.701)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:08:01.262)
you know, to that shit happening. But that goes on the other side too, you know, same type of situation we had at the time we were at the Keating Center. Again, at any one time there was what 40 or 50 guys in that facility. So from when we were physically there from let's call it middle of April until was it October 1st ish. Okay. So roughly in the, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. And end of October. So let's call it six months, right?
Mike (01:08:14.635)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Mike (01:08:23.597)
Yeah. Yeah, towards the end I thought, yeah.
Bill (01:08:29.902)
So in a matter of six months, I mean, was there 200 guys that went through there? 150, you know? Whatever the, let's even say 150, okay, they went through there at a minimum. Now we know, you know, from right now, you know, we know 10 that are close friends of ours. Let's even take the benefit of the doubt and say there's 20 or 25, okay? So 125 other people, who knows what happened to them? Maybe they're still drunk, maybe they're dead.
Mike (01:08:30.157)
Right. Mm hmm.
Mike (01:08:36.301)
Yeah? Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:08:45.773)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right.
Mike (01:08:56.973)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:09:00.042)
Maybe they're bouncing in and out every week, every month. No, I know, yeah, we know quite a few of them. So in that circumstance, same deal. Why me? Well, why the fuck not me? And I know why me, you just said it. We did the work, we focused, we keep doing the work. It's not just that we did past tense, we do the work, and that's why. We know what the deal is. And on top of that too, every one of those people, no offense to them, even the ones that fucking died,
Mike (01:09:01.965)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. There's a few of them. Yeah.
Mike (01:09:13.869)
Right? Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:09:19.149)
Mm -hmm. No, no.
Bill (01:09:29.166)
or the ones that are bouncing back and forth or living miserable fucking lives right now, that is, that's a choice. Because they had the same, they were given the same book, the same playbook, the same test, the same opportunity as us, they chose not to do it. So why not me? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, like you said, I mean, I do, I feel for the...
Mike (01:09:31.437)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:09:45.517)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Bill (01:09:58.67)
I feel more so for the families, you know, those individuals, you know, that have to deal with that that bullshit. And, you know, again, we've been we've been to plenty of funerals, you know, for people and watching the just it's terrible. There's just no better way to put it. You know, watching the parents and especially when they're young, you know, young, it doesn't even fucking matter. You know, parents having to bury their kids, you know, it's just it's it's not a good deal.
Mike (01:10:07.789)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:10:11.893)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:10:22.541)
Mm -hmm, right. No.
Right? Yeah. You know, wives and husbands having to bury their loved ones and kids without parents and oh yeah, all of that, man. Yep. Yep, exactly. And I don't want to do that to anybody today. So I think I won't.
Bill (01:10:40.334)
No. So, so there. So there. Okay, so I think I know the answer to this, but I don't know that we've ever talked about it. So I think this is more of a, I don't even want to say it's a new thing. I know people did it for years. People, there's a lot of people that journal, you know, journal or write things down and things like that in recovery. I don't know if I ever asked you, did you ever do anything like that? Whether it be back in the
Mike (01:10:47.261)
So there.
Mike (01:11:03.669)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:11:09.998)
the flowery California days or this time, did you ever do any sort of journaling about from a recovery standpoint or no? Okay. Did it ever, I mean, is everything, did it ever cross your mind or just never something that even, okay.
Mike (01:11:24.557)
Well, sure, yeah, I mean, it was suggested several times, this time included. It's just not.
You know, it's one of those exercises to me, I know it's very helpful to some people and that's great, you know, like a lot of things, whatever you do that helps you through it and gets you there. Great. But for me personally, it's, it's a lot of navel gazing. It's a lot of focusing on myself, which is which is the exact opposite of what I need to do to do this thing. You know,
doing your four step and doing your inventories and whatever. Yes, that's a separate thing and you need to look at yourself because you know, you are ignoring a lot of things about yourself, but on a daily basis and you know, again, I think the root of my problem is focusing on myself and that seems to be just an exercise in that for me. So no, I don't do it. It's not a useful tool for me.
Bill (01:12:28.014)
Right. And I've never done anything like a true journaling type of thing. And I mean, you know, and I've talked about it on here, but if you, of course, you know, I like, I like to, I enjoy writing and being, you know, creative in that, in that way. Um, but there was a time, I mean, when I did it, um, well, this summer, you know, when I, when I took that, took that time away from, you know, full -time work and was working on the coaching stuff and whatever. And, um, I did.
Mike (01:12:37.517)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:12:53.806)
I did a ton of articles because I wanted to build content for the website. And it was fun. I enjoyed it, getting that stuff out. But I was doing it more for other people than I was doing it for myself. And it was a matter of, it's kind of like this thing, but we do this, we started for ourselves, but now it turned into, we realize this is also for other people. Whereas the...
Mike (01:12:54.349)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:13:10.381)
All right. Huh.
Mike (01:13:16.301)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:13:22.286)
The writing that I was doing, my purpose was to build content for people to have and to read. It was a way for me, sometimes writing has always been a way for me to get literally putting all the shit that's in my head, putting it on paper. And I like creating that. That's a creative thing for me. But I mean, I've never, and I'm sure it was suggested through the Keating Center, right? I'm sure people suggested it.
Mike (01:13:22.347)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:13:47.789)
Oh yeah, you know, right?
Bill (01:13:48.046)
I just, I don't remember, I don't remember even like considering it, you know, like sitting down and doing journaling. And we do, we've got a lot of friends that do it all the time. You know, I know, I know for a fact, but yeah, same deal. It just never, I don't know, I've nothing wrong with it. Nothing, nothing against it. It's just not my deal, man. It's not my deal, Wade. So, um.
Mike (01:13:59.767)
Mm -hmm, sure.
Mike (01:14:07.501)
Mm -mm. Yep, me neither.
Hehehehehe
Bill (01:14:14.702)
Last thing here, and I wrote this down, it popped off the top of my head after I listened to our episode, you had talked about this. So you read some things off of a bookmark that you have. Is that a, there was like three things that you had for life? Okay, so, and I didn't think about it when you were reading it, but after I listened to the episode, so I made a note of it. Where did those things that you read?
Mike (01:14:30.155)
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Bill (01:14:43.95)
that you read off. First of all, I'd like you to read them again. I think they were good. But I was just curious where they came from, when, and I don't know how you came across them. You know what I mean?
Mike (01:14:49.545)
Yeah.
Mike (01:14:54.637)
Right, right. When? Long fucking time ago. Yeah, definitely. Probably first year shit. Yeah, I can read them again right here. It's a little piece of paper, little green piece of paper. I must not expect what I'm not prepared for.
Bill (01:14:58.318)
Heheheheh!
Bill (01:15:06.444)
Okay.
Yes, please.
Bill (01:15:14.19)
Hehehehe.
Mike (01:15:23.661)
We don't sing because we're happy. We're happy because we sing. And then flip it over. The third one is hearts in mind attuned to the welfare of others. Um, that one I know for sure is a 24 hour book. Yeah. Um, uh, but, but, but, but the one I must not expect when I'm not prepared for may also be from the 24 hour book. That seems right. And, um,
Bill (01:15:33.326)
Okay. And.
Bill (01:15:38.286)
Really? Okay.
Mike (01:15:52.929)
Yeah, we can't sing because we're happy. We're happy because we sing that one. I have no fucking clue where that came from. Some reading, though, they're all they're all something I read somewhere. And like I said, I know for sure two of them are from the 24 hour book.
Bill (01:15:57.23)
Right. Yeah, it just.
Bill (01:16:06.03)
Well, and I just, when you read them off, and I don't remember what we were talking about at the time that you read them off, but I was listening back to the episode, I'm like, I really like those. And I just, I didn't know where they came from or how long, you know, that you had had those, but.
Mike (01:16:16.363)
Mmm.
Mike (01:16:20.717)
Yeah. Oh yeah. Long time. At least this little piece of paper I've had for well over 10 years. Yeah.
Bill (01:16:26.732)
Really.
Yeah, that's it. At some point, I mean, it's literally my big book is looking to my left. It's like two arm lengths away from me. But I haven't. That's one of my notes on here is about the things in my big book. I want to go through there sometime on one of these episodes and just read off the shit that was in there, because that was all, you know, stuff, things I wrote in the first 60 days. So, I mean, literally almost 14 years ago. And I mean, I. Yeah.
Mike (01:16:37.963)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:16:43.755)
Right.
Mike (01:16:53.037)
Right. Yeah. Like stuff from groups and stuff. Right.
Bill (01:16:56.59)
And I dipped into that one time when we were talking about when we went three quarter and I, there was some things I forget what it was, but I, I blew my fucking mind when I was reading. I'm like, Hey, because, because it was something that we had, that we had just talked about. I'm like, I think that's in there. And I looked at the, I was written down exactly from at that point, you know, it's been almost two years ago now, but yeah, it just kind of blew my mind. And it's, it's fun though. It's reading, reading some of that stuff back. And I don't know, there's, there's the, and I had it for my,
Mike (01:17:08.043)
Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho,
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:17:26.638)
It was my screensaver on my computer for the longest time. I can't remember what it said. Something about I don't want the little things in life or I don't want big things in life. I want little things that make life big or something like that. It's just one of these quotes that I came across and I know where it came from. But it's hugely important to me. I'm like, yeah, I do. I want, I don't need, I don't need, and that's the way I am now. And I think I grew into that after, obviously from getting sober is that I,
Mike (01:17:40.877)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:17:53.709)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Bill (01:17:56.206)
Yes, I like things. I like nice stuff. I like a decent car. I like nice computers. I like toys and shit like that. You know, there's certain things that, you know, I do like. I like some nice things, but I just, I so much, I prefer more just these little things that make my life full. You know, just that's why I always talk about, you know, it's quality time with people. I don't, I don't see you that often. I see my kids often enough, but not as much as I, as I would like to.
Mike (01:18:08.075)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:18:23.598)
You know, family, you get together with friends and things like that. Shit, all of our poker buddies, you know, and that whole group. But when we're together, that time is, it's quality thing. That's like my number one. I love quality time with people, you know? And just these little things that, you know, mean the world to me. But yeah, I'm such a simpleton, you know? And I mean, I mean that in a great way. You know, I don't give a fuck if, I don't,
Mike (01:18:24.717)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:18:30.165)
Right.
Mike (01:18:39.723)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:18:44.523)
Hehehehehe
Mike (01:18:50.381)
Hehehehehe
Bill (01:18:53.678)
I don't care about material shit anymore. I just don't, you know? And I just need, I need enough money to, I want enough money to be able to do some things, have some things that I already told my kids, man. You know, I mean, I'll have life insurance hopefully in place whenever I kick it, but you know, any money I have, I'd rather spend it on them now or do stuff with them now or on my grandson and, you know, do stuff with them rather than, you know, again, life insurance pays to put me in the ground or sprinkle me, sprinkle me.
Mike (01:18:59.435)
Right.
Mike (01:19:11.693)
Alright?
Mike (01:19:15.853)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:19:22.957)
That's it. That's what I've got. Yep. Yeah. Take care of my body when I'm gone so you don't have to worry about it. And yeah, as far as the rest of it, I want to do it now because tomorrow's not promised. Yep.
Bill (01:19:23.534)
Yeah, sprinkle me some -
Bill (01:19:34.798)
Right, yeah. But yeah, so that was the last thing really. I mean, I got a little shit on here. I think I got to clean up my list and kind of rearrange this shit. You know, the funny part is that with all these last couple of weeks between training and then, you know, actually working full time, I haven't really been listening to, I can't, you know, like listen to podcasts and stuff like that. So that's where I got a lot of my ideas from. That's why I'm writing some of this shit down and I have, you know, from.
Mike (01:19:52.973)
Uh -huh.
Mike (01:19:57.165)
Yeah.
Mike (01:20:01.677)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:20:02.35)
my recovery books and those sort of things. But yeah, so who knows? Maybe you'll have to bring something to the table one of these days. Just fucking around. We always find shit to talk about. It just, who knows? Oh, you know what? I've been, so once a day, I usually go onto our Facebook page, a sober and amateur Facebook page at night, usually before I go to bed, and just kind of pop through. And we've, of course, now we've been on there long enough where it has Facebook memories, which is kind of fun.
Mike (01:20:10.765)
Ah shit.
Mike (01:20:16.461)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:20:32.43)
You know, I'll be able to grab, um, I, you know, recycle memes and stuff off of there that I posted things I haven't posted in a year or so, which, you know, they seem brand new. Um, but you know, they're listening to some of our episode clips. Some of the shit kind of makes me laugh. You know, I listened back, you know, when, cause Tony's episode came up, I think Megan's episode is coming up next. Um, a couple of some of the stuff I just, seriously, I'm listening to some of the clips I did of us and laughing my ass off. I'm like, Oh my God, that was so stupid. It was funny.
Mike (01:20:33.461)
Mmm.
Mike (01:20:53.165)
Hmm. Hmm.
Mike (01:21:00.749)
Well, there you go.
Bill (01:21:02.99)
So, yeah, so anyhow, my point there is we're fucking hilarious. So if anyone hasn't, listen to all the episodes. Go back, go back like 20, 26 episodes. They're pretty fucking funny. We got 104 of them now, so what the fuck, man? Yeah, exactly. So, all right, but you know what? I think, unless you got something else, man, I think this is the end of the 104th. Oh, what?
Mike (01:21:11.757)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:21:19.371)
Mmm.
Right, yeah, what are you waiting for?
Mike (01:21:28.557)
Hmm. Yo, I think it what go ahead.
Bill (01:21:31.854)
No, it's just, this is the, I'm like, this is the end of season four. What the fuck? Just go watch, go watch, do your thing.
Mike (01:21:38.765)
Mmm. All right.
Mike (01:21:44.589)
That's right. This has been the spectacular season finale of season four of sober not mature Hey, guess what? We'll be back more crap next week with season five Whatever the fuck that means. All right. Well, thank you for listening to this episode season finale spectacular of sober not mature Go out there and be nice to each other do something nice for somebody else this week. Don't
tell anybody that you did it. And now it's time. It's time. Guess what? This season is fucking over. So you know what you can do? You can fuck off, then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off until season five.
Bill (01:22:35.982)
I always mute but it's a good goddamn thing. I was muted this time, man. This whole fucking time I was laughing through there. You know what? It's time. It's the end. It's this. The whole time I was sitting there on my head, I'm like, God, can I do the math right? This is the end of the season, right? I know. And yeah, stay tuned for all the...
Mike (01:22:50.305)
Yup.
Mike (01:22:57.421)
Well, whatever it is now.
Bill (01:23:04.642)
You know what's gonna happen next week for season five? Nothing. There's gonna be a five where it said four and that's fucking it. There's...
Mike (01:23:05.197)
The new and improved!
Mike (01:23:11.083)
Right.
Mike (01:23:15.437)
and we're gonna introduce Cousin Oliver.
Bill (01:23:16.21)
Whose cousin Oliver oh Yeah It took me a second. Yeah, we this we're jumping the shark in this episode, right? Yeah, we that that would be the key we've got to bring on it we got to bring on a child now so yeah, you gotta bring bring a child into the mix because that's what when the show's starting to go to the shitter That's what they do All right, whatever but yeah, we're not doing anything fucking different but you know
Mike (01:23:20.949)
The kid they brought in at the Brady Bunch for like the last couple episodes. That's right.
Mike (01:23:35.821)
Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho!
Mike (01:23:41.645)
Right.
Bill (01:23:45.676)
No, it's just for whatever reason we decided to cut things into season. So that's that's what we're doing. We're staying consistent, right?
Mike (01:23:45.965)
No, we're not doing any of that.
Mike (01:23:53.429)
Mm -hmm, consistently stupid.
Bill (01:23:54.066)
All right, man, you know what? I love you, brother. And I know I'll talk to you soon, but for now, goodbye.
Mike (01:23:59.949)
I love you too.
Yes you will.
today.
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