SoberNotMature - Episode 105 (Technology Is Our Friend, But It Won't Pick Us Up From The Airport)

Bill (00:01.516)
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And this is season fucking five. I know. Okay, so we're going to take a few minutes at the beginning of the podcast and just we're going to list out everything that's going to happen in this season, everything new. Mike, Mike's compiled the list. So Mike, go ahead. There it is. And then the goddamn thing's going to change.

Mike (00:08.558)
Wow!

Mike (00:15.788)
Mm -mm.

I have.

There it is! Uh huh. Sure.

Bill (00:30.092)
And we did not rehearse that, but I do, you know exactly what I was doing. So thank you. Thank you for playing along. We actually, we actually had a pre podcast meeting, but it had nothing to do with anything we're going to talk about it. It has to do with fucking tax shit. And that's a whole nother story that we don't need to talk about on here. But only, only thing I'll say is, um, don't, don't open an LLC in Indiana. Cause they don't sometimes have, they don't sometimes have the forms ready for you to go, but that that's a whole nother story. Hello, Mike.

Mike (00:51.724)
Hehehehehe

And it is. Hi there. Hi Bill.

Bill (01:00.172)
Yeah, so seriously though, I mean, here's the thing though. I mean, this is we've done, you know, this is episode 105, which is cool. And we can talk more about this, but you know, for that, we don't we don't do anything different. We made it. We've made a couple of changes along the way, as everyone knows, we're we're not about the brand new year, a brand new season, nothing. If we feel like fucking changing something or not doing something or doing something, we just fucking do it because you know what? That's what we were taught in sobriety. So that's why we do.

Mike (01:17.87)
Mmm.

Mike (01:25.774)
That's right.

Bill (01:28.588)
practicing these principles I heard in all of our affairs. All of them. So speaking of practicing those principles, we're still gonna do a reading in season five, aren't we? I think we should. That's one of the, you know what? I don't know if anyone else looks forward to it. I do. And here's the thing though. I post, well, you know, I post a reading on Instagram, which hits Facebook every morning too. And I see a lot of people that that's one of the things that gets,

Mike (01:31.694)
all of them.

Mike (01:36.974)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (01:41.006)
Are we? Yes. Yes.

Mike (01:52.43)
Mm -hmm. There.

Bill (01:58.508)
a lot of activity on our Instagram page, aside from, you know, all the fucking nasty memes. But, you know, people will share it on their stories. Some people comment, they're like, thanks for posting this, you know, needed to hear this. So I, I do it because I do it. I've done it for years under different medians, media, media under different areas other than just Instagram. I've done it. And I think people appreciate it. And I hope people appreciate this reading because.

Mike (02:09.614)
Mmm.

Mike (02:15.278)
Right, right, yeah, somewhere, right.

Mike (02:22.158)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Bill (02:27.54)
I know, I'm still, I'm glad we started it and I know you are too. So yeah. So let's, okay, Mike, over to you. Let's do a reading.

Mike (02:30.03)
Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. All right. This is actually from this week, February 20th. I am grateful for this minute. My eternity may be in it. That's from the AA grapevine magazine newsletter thingy de bob from March 1947.

The present moment is our link to the divine. How we conduct ourselves in the present moment is how we come to know what we believe in. We must never forget that moments are tied together, one moment leading into the next. Thus, by acting from our values in this moment, we increase our chances of acting from our values in the next moment. If we stay tied to the divine in this moment, we increase our chances of being tied to the divine in the next moment.

Recovery allows us to choose what we do with our moments and what we choose to be tied to. Dependence, on the other hand, is the loss of choice. Are we grateful for having choices again? Are we grateful to be able to connect with the divine in this very moment? Prayer for the day. I am grateful to have this moment. Higher power, help me to use it to help others and to do what you want me to do. In reality, it is your moment.

Thank you. Today's action says actions, cause this is a program of action. I will work to live. I will work to live today in the moment. I will work to see and find my higher power in the moments. If I can do this, I will stay connected to eternity.

Bill (04:21.196)
All right, sorry, I was making a note and had to put my pen down. And I'm like, fuck, I want to unmute. But okay, so I like that one. There was a lot of, I put quotes in quotes, the divine. So there was a lot of, was this from The Grapevine or no? The Vine, get it?

Mike (04:22.734)
Yep.

Mike (04:29.068)
Yeah.

Mike (04:33.294)
Mm -hmm. Well, as. Yeah, yeah. Divine, that'd go great for divine. Right, right. Well, and this is a wonderful example of me taking what I can use and leaving the rest.

Bill (04:52.364)
Right. And we talk about that a lot. I mean, that's from all these readings that we do, or I'm sorry, the mic does is, they're all from God Grant Me, which is his number one favorite book. And certainly there's a few that I read, but I love it. That's the second one I read every day, 24 hour first, and then obviously that one. And the other, I don't know, I think God Grant Me probably has the least amount of God -ish things in it.

Mike (04:59.628)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (05:11.182)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (05:22.062)
Yeah, I know. Ironically, right. The one that's God grant me has God right there in the title is the least certainly religious, um, you know, compared to like 24 hour book. And, um, yeah, you know, it, it's, um, it is nine times out of 10 that we use the phrase higher power than something else, whatever, you know, God or whatever, because they, they know what we are and, you know, it's, it's our choice to find.

Bill (05:22.188)
Do you agree?

Bill (05:47.372)
Ha!

Mike (05:50.99)
our higher power, a power greater than ourself, whatever that happens to be. And yes, this one does have a lot and you know, it ends with the word eternity, which I don't believe in that either. Um, but that, that doesn't take away from the fact that I love the sentiment of this moment. This is the, this is all we have is this very moment living in the now is a huge part of, of, uh, the program. It should be, um, it's a big part of my program, you know,

Uh, the past we can't change and the future is not guaranteed and there's nothing we can do about it. Anyway, right now is all we have. And as long as it makes it a lot easier for me, I know that, you know, I mean, I certainly, when I was, uh, in my, uh, my delusions, um, you know, I, I definitely was focused a lot on the past cause God knows my present sucked ass and, um, you know, I did a lot of, uh, dreaming about the future too, hoping that.

Bill (06:38.154)
Hehehehehe

Mike (06:50.766)
It wouldn't be as bad as the moment was and hey, guess what? Like the reading said, you know, what happens in this moment's probably gonna influence what happens in the next moment. And hey, what do you know? It fucking did. I sucked ass in that moment and I sucked ass in the next moment.

Bill (07:00.396)
Right. Yeah. And.

Bill (07:07.02)
You put together enough and we always talk about that's that goes back to you know talking about bad days versus bad moments, which is you know, we talked about it plenty, but I think it's hugely important. It's that's like the number one thing that that gets me through life the days the weeks the all that stuff is realizing that and I think it's important that you know, this is talking about, you know, obviously putting moments together. It's it's looking at it certainly from a more positive spin but.

Mike (07:14.156)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (07:35.052)
I also look at it from, you know, on the other side figuring that, okay, there could be, like we talked about, you know, there's no such thing as a bad day. It's just a lot of bad fucking moments, you know? And if there's, let's say there were 1 ,000 moments in a day and you may have 989 that are bad that day, there's 11 good ones and you got to focus on those 11, you know, rather than the 989, which don't get me wrong, it's not fucking easy at all.

Mike (07:35.212)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (07:43.758)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Mike (07:57.23)
Absolutely. Mm -hmm. No. No. But like everything else, the more you do it, the easier it gets. Yeah.

Bill (08:04.012)
but.

Right. But yeah, the I just wrote down, I was just the only reason I circled and quoted out the divines. I thought it was kind of funny. And I'm glad I'm glad you made the point of that, because it is true. The 24 hour book, very, very God, very not very, but more religious based. Even because I read a day at a time that I'm trying to think that may not get as God ish, but it talks more. That'll focus a lot strictly on just a stuff.

Mike (08:15.884)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (08:24.3)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (08:34.444)
And then Keep It Simple seems to be the one that's almost the kind of like breezy one in the wind type of thing most of the time where it's not really, if I, I'm trying to think, it's probably not as god -ish, you know, probably more AA than it is anything, but I don't know. I mean, between the four books that I read, I get a nice mix, but it's funny is those, like when there was, there was a lot of the, we talked about it a couple episodes, the anger and fear and that sort of thing. That was the theme in all four of those books.

Mike (08:41.166)
Right.

Mike (08:46.7)
Mm -hmm.

Right?

Mike (09:00.844)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (09:04.236)
that like for a particular week or two weeks or whatever it was, you know, which is nice because I mean, granted, yes, they're all in the same day in this and that, but I don't know. I mean, I suppose these people that wrote these books, I mean, they had to draw from other things. So I'm sure that, I don't know, you know, or maybe the last couple of weeks were fear and anger week, you know, national, national fear and anger week that we didn't know about. Yeah.

Mike (09:17.74)
Mm -hmm. Sure.

Mike (09:25.826)
Feared loathing.

Bill (09:30.634)
Look up national fear and loathing. Oh fuck. Oh, look at that the days now, but But no this particular one like the the first thing that has said grateful for this moment. I wrote down Moments are tied together, which you know, obviously we're just talking about a little bit But then I liked where it said dependence is the loss of choice So I didn't have a chance to think about it, but I don't know I was gonna say what does that mean to you? But you know what I mean? What what do you think of that dependence is the loss of choice? How does that one like sit with you or what do you think about that?

Mike (09:59.982)
No, absolutely, I agree with it. Yes. Yeah, when I'm a slave, I don't have a choice. Again, I've talked about it a million times how I don't want to get loaded today and I end up loaded. Yeah, I don't have a choice when it comes to drinking. And I have to remember, I still don't. I will always never have a choice. I know that doesn't make total sense, but it does.

I will never not have a choice when it comes to drinking. The choices I have today are to do the things that these people taught us to do. So I don't have to take that first drink of that first drug. But if I don't do those things, if I choose not to do my readings and do my prayers and, you know, be a good boy and do the next right thing and all that simple shit, um, I will lose the choice. I will pick up a drink and a drug and I will.

destroy my life and the life of everyone around me. And you know, I don't want to do that today. So I guess I will choose to do this stuff.

Bill (11:02.028)
Hahaha!

Well, and what about on the other side though? I mean, do we have we've got dependence on this program and the 12 steps and the people this more of a more of devil's advocate type of statement but I mean, can we look at that dependence as a loss of bad choices? Or I mean, how do we look at that?

Mike (11:13.332)
Sure.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (11:21.846)
That's actually a really good way to do it.

Bill (11:25.164)
I mean, that's the first thing that popped into my head because our dependence on this program and these principles and these folks that we're friends with is not a bad thing, but that dependence does. I mean, it helps us get rid of those, you know, we lose the bad choices.

Mike (11:31.446)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mike (11:40.558)
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a great way to look at it. Yes, of course. Right. I mean, yes, that my alcoholic mind will go, well, you're still dependent on something. Yeah, I am asshole. That's right. I certainly am. But yes, with this dependence, I lose the bad choices. I get to make good choices, which in the long run, being selfish and self -centered makes my life better. So why wouldn't I want to choose the good things?

Bill (11:48.492)
hahahaha

Mike (12:08.302)
and have that little bit of dependence on things that are good. Yeah, right.

Bill (12:12.012)
Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. So let me write that down. I said something worthwhile. Bill, what day is it? What day is it today? The 20, 23rd, right? 223. Oh yeah, real quick. Kylie's birthday. So our niece, our sister's daughter, her birthday was yesterday. So I don't know if she still listens to us, but it was a day late, but obviously we all wish her happy birthday on Facebook or texting or whatever, but happy birthday to our little mentee.

Mike (12:17.422)
You did! Third.

Mike (12:27.734)
Right?

Mm hmm. Right.

Bill (12:41.58)
Isn't that what? Because we were mentors of hers, so she would be a mentee.

Mike (12:42.542)
mentee. That's right. Yes. Yes. Right. And then I brought up the band, the mentors, and that's when Kathy banned her from looking up anything on YouTube that uncle Mike said.

Bill (12:54.444)
Right, yeah, because you got to figure, you know, because her and my son are, I mean, they're only, well, he was what, six months apart. So, yeah, both of them were, you know, they were eight, nine years old when we got sober. And, you know, it wasn't that long until, you know, obviously, Mike came into our lives and hanging out at family events. So we're talking, you know, 10, 11, 12 year old kids. And, you know, we haven't changed.

Mike (13:06.668)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (13:11.67)
Right?

Mike (13:15.756)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (13:19.886)
Right. Yeah. I think, I think that point she was, yeah. Right. I think at that point she was around 12 or so. Yeah. Right. She went and looked up the band, the mentors and for you adults in the audience, go ahead and then check them out sometime. Cause they're wonderful.

Bill (13:32.46)
But yeah, that's what we used to play cards against humanity and have to have Kathy screen the cards and stuff. And yeah, it was still fun. But yeah, there was some nasty when she's like, don't Kathy go through this big pile of cards, would there be this whole pile of shit? And if anyone's ever played cards against humanity, it's hard to play with a 12 year old, you know, or a couple of them, you know, so it was still fun, but there was still things that that we could use and that she didn't necessarily know, or at least we don't think she knew. But so it was fun, though.

Mike (13:38.796)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (13:52.366)
It is. Right?

Mike (14:01.71)
Right. It was. It was. Yes, and we had to censor ourselves a bit. That's all right. Now we don't have to because she's all grown up.

Bill (14:06.572)
Yeah, right. Right. Yeah, so just real quick that just reminded me. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to Kylie. So, all right. So the last thing that the moments are tied together, like I said, we pretty much talked about that we agree with. And, you know, the last thing I wrote down on there, which I think was in the the action part was living in the moment, which, once again, I know, I know we talked about, but that's that's huge. But, yeah, it can be.

Mike (14:17.164)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (14:24.694)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (14:32.726)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (14:35.884)
I mean, it can be difficult, you know, a lot of times because it's, especially if you get a, you know, a person like me that I've been honest, I'm impatient, impatient as fuck, you know, and it's really hard to sit here and, and enjoy, not to just enjoy the moment, but not to live outside of, of what I'm, you know, where I am right now, you know? And the other thing too, just so everyone realizes when we, when we talk about the, you know, the future and stuff like that, I mean, you can still,

Mike (14:48.59)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (14:57.454)
Sure. Right.

Bill (15:03.692)
There's nothing wrong with planning for the future. That's healthy, that's fine. But the key there is to not to have worry about the future, right? You know, not to, I don't know, freak out about the future, so.

Mike (15:04.46)
Mm -hmm.

No, of course not. Sure.

Mike (15:13.518)
Exactly. Yeah. And, and don't focus on the future so much that you're losing the moment that you're in, which is we can do. I know I've done it plenty of times. Yeah. You know, looking forward to something and, and, and missing what's happening right now.

Bill (15:30.188)
Right. Smelling the roses, watching a sunrise or a sunset or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that fucking moon. Thank you, Heidi. And I still, I was, it was within the last week or so the, the moon was kind of huge -ish and I was standing outside and I'm looking at my, God damn that fucking moon, that fucking moon. Oh, speaking of that, speaking of sun, sunrises, sunsets and all that stuff. I, I actually booked a,

Mike (15:34.338)
That's right. Look at that fucking moon.

Mike (15:43.552)
Thank you.

Mike (15:48.238)
Hmm. Yep.

Mike (15:57.228)
Mmm.

Bill (15:58.412)
I booked another trip around Ali's birthday. Well, his birthday is actually the 15th of March and Kimmy and Brian are having a birthday party for him in Oshkosh.

Mike (16:09.046)
No, it just cracks me up, man. All the grandkids, my grandkid is May 15th. Chris's grandkid is April 15th and yours is March 15th. Yep. Anyway.

Bill (16:18.476)
Really? Oh, that's, well, that's kind of fun. Yeah, I didn't, I mean, yeah, I didn't, I guess I never even, I didn't know about Chris on Chris's side, but obviously Lydia, Lydia I knew, but I forgot it was a 15th. Yeah, that is kind of funny. But so the next, the next week, whatever that is, like the 20th, the 24th or something like that, they're having the get together forum. And the short story is I'm trying to do something else through Airbnb. There's this, this thing you can do.

Mike (16:28.694)
Uh -huh.

Mike (16:32.206)
Well...

Mike (16:38.966)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:46.892)
It's like a like we have on our store called shop where you can actually buy stuff and have interest free payments and things like that through the shop Airbnb's got this thing also where you could do that and I did it when I took my Trip to South Carolina where they'll they'll split it up into certain payments if you want and I'm like, hmm Let me do this figuring the whole point is if you could build this stuff Build up basically a bank. It's almost like a like a credit card type of thing

Mike (16:55.246)
Sure.

Mike (17:02.19)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (17:05.902)
Right?

Bill (17:12.204)
You know where they will if it's a larger quote -unquote purchase, they'll charge you interest if you don't pay it off But I'm like I want to start banking some of that stuff to have this other Avenue So whatever and plus I thought it'd be fun to be up there during that time so if you look at Wisconsin and you see that big lake in the middle that's Lake Winnebago and Right at the bottom the south end of that is Fond du Lac and I found a House to rent for that that week

Mike (17:19.086)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (17:31.534)
Hmm?

Bill (17:40.428)
the Saturday prior to his birthday party and then through the next weekend, which is the Saturday before Easter, which obviously we haven't talked about. But, you know, if you're coming down here, I mean, I'll still be, I'll be back on Saturday, but yeah, right on the lake. You know, so I found a place to rent up there, but it's just reminded me of it because it's right on that Southern corner. So you could walk out there. I should be able to see sunrises and sunsets while I'm there, which is.

which is cool. And I can still work obviously, because I made sure that I need to have the router mode of my need to be able to plug in, you know, and all that stuff. But yeah, it's just kind of cool. So my, and this is, that's what made me think about too, with this whole future planning. I mean, I'm kind of starting to plan out where I want to be and where I need to be, you know, during certain months. So April is on our anniversary month, June is the retreat and founders day. So I need to start kind of.

Mike (18:08.686)
Cool.

Mike (18:15.062)
Mm -hmm.

Nice.

Mike (18:27.63)
Right?

Mike (18:34.222)
Right?

Bill (18:34.796)
planning some of this stuff. So I'm doing future planning though in a positive way, I think.

Mike (18:39.982)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, right. Yeah, but again, but you're not doing it to the point where, oh, I'm fucked today, man. I'm worried about next month.

Bill (18:49.164)
No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Just it actually, it, you know what it makes me, it makes me really happy because I've been, I've been planning on doing this traveling for three years now, I think. And I knew that, you know, it, oh yeah. Well, and yeah, you got to figure I was, it was a year before, at a minimum a year before I, I wanted to start doing it like a year ago, but obviously came, came down here with mom's health and all that stuff.

Mike (19:02.574)
Yeah, right, at least two.

Mike (19:15.63)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (19:16.3)
You know, so that was a year in there. I think it was, it was a year or so before that. But yeah, two and a half, three years, whatever the case is, but all this stuff is starting to fall into place. But I still, I had to be patient. You know, I'm not forcing anything. I'm not doing things I can't afford. You know, but it's still, I mean, I got this job is going well. It's, you know, I'm doing a lot of training and still it's a fucking lot. You know, there's no doubt. But I mean, I can see just watching the other.

Mike (19:29.326)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:44.14)
the other reps and seeing where they're at. I mean, the potential is huge. So I know I could do it. It's just a matter of, again, planning, but enjoying the fact that it's making my moments now wonderful because all the things that I've been planning for, thinking about over the last few years, you know, are coming into play and it's fucking awesome. So, so anyhow, that was a, that was a sideline. That was a sideline on that, but yeah. So, so wait, wait, I just want to recap for everyone. So,

Mike (20:01.102)
Mm -hmm. Yep. Cool. Nice. Promises, man. Fucking promises.

Bill (20:12.886)
Obviously we could drink and put down the bottle and then we have to do all this fucking work We got to go to meetings. We got to read these fucking books We have to be good human beings and then all this really good shit happens to us. Let me just okay Wow Yeah, I'm wiping my brow cuz that's so hard yeah, I know Yeah, and you know, it's it's certainly not like I had I didn't

Mike (20:19.342)
Uh huh. Yep.

Mike (20:25.582)
Yeah. Not right away, but eventually it happens.

Bill (20:37.164)
I didn't necessarily, I haven't been waiting almost 14 years to be able to do this. I didn't start thinking about this until, again, whether it was two or three years ago, it doesn't matter. It's been a period of time, but I knew it one step at a time. I had to get the job, the remote job was key. And I just started this job three weeks ago. But that was the key without the job and the ability to go anywhere, I can't do the rest.

and then doing the research and doing all the stuff. And I've taken a couple of trips to see that I know that the traveling part, I know how to pack all my shit in my car. You know, I mean, literally everything, I've got all that stuff, it's all worked out. I've taken trial runs on everything else. You know, so yeah, it's just kind of cool. But yeah, I don't know. That was a side note. I don't even know how I got on that. I talked about a sunset, I think. Yeah, so.

Mike (21:13.612)
Hehehehehe

Mike (21:20.302)
Mm -hmm, right.

Mike (21:27.918)
Yeah, you did right. And possibly a sunrise.

Bill (21:31.052)
Right, and the, so that's another note that the rambling part is not gonna change in season five. Yeah, and Mike and I are just gonna continue to have these fucking random conversations with ourselves and you guys get to listen. Either you have to listen or you get to listen, I don't know. It's good, bad, or indifferent, but yeah, exactly. Oh, so here's the other thing. We are coming up, so let me ask you first before I say this.

Mike (21:35.796)
No, God no. No.

Mike (21:45.23)
Right. Yeah, whatever.

Mike (21:56.878)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (21:57.932)
A podcast anniversary, is that considered if I'm talking about early is that fronting?

Mike (22:03.502)
Um, I mean, talk about it all you want. It hasn't happened yet, but so yes, the podcast anniversary.

Bill (22:08.876)
Okay.

Okay, so our two year anniversary and the reason I thought about it, I wasn't going to argue about it, but I have a, I have a defendable point. And my defendable point is, is this episode, even if both of us fucking die, like right after we're done recording this done, you know, we just drop dead, you know, at our, on our, at our computers. Well, no, it can't happen that I got to get the episode. I have to get the episode published first, but this episode will live through the week. So.

Mike (22:17.646)
All right.

Mike (22:24.526)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (22:29.11)
All right.

Mike (22:33.102)
That's possible.

Alright, right.

Bill (22:41.644)
We're already there with this episode, we're there. That was my defendable point. I know, I know it's the easier, softer way. All right, so anyhow, everyone, if you're listening, 27th, February 27th, it'll be two years. Two years for this wonderful podcast, but I'll do a promotion on whatever date, what day is that? Is that gonna be Wednesday?

Mike (22:45.102)
Okay, all right, it's a little murky but Right, so when is the anniversary date?

Okay. All right. Cool.

Mike (23:10.542)
I don't know. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yes, maybe. I don't know. Hang on. Let me, I got right here. No, that's calculator. I, one of these days I've got to move that in my phone because I have calculator and calendar right next to each other. The 27th Tuesday. That's what I thought.

Bill (23:14.508)
Once, I don't have my calendar in front of me, huh? Yeah, as if we just, yes.

Bill (23:27.436)
It's Tuesday. All right. So yes, watch for a promotion on Tuesday for our podcast. I'll just do up a nice little promotion thing. I'll probably run, maybe I was, what I was thinking about was you and I do in like a little promo, like we did our website promo and like, ah, fuck it. I'll, I think I'll just, I'll do the nice thing on Canva and then drop Breeze's, your fuck off message behind it. So, but yeah, that's easier. That's less work for both of us. So.

Mike (23:37.454)
You okay?

Mike (23:52.492)
Hehehehehe

Yeah, works for me.

Bill (23:58.796)
But yeah, so I know. But either way, what I was gonna say before though is one way or the other, I mean, coming up in the season, I mean, we've done 104 episodes. I mean, obviously this is episode 105. We've talked about the fact of no expectations, little expectations, things building, all that stuff over the timeframe. All these things are kind of cool. And I mean, worst case scenario, and I was thinking about this coming into this tonight, one year, again, unless we died within that one year period,

One year was going to happen because that was just out of fucking spite for that motherfucker that said, you know, 90 % of the podcast fail. So even if we stood, you know, just stood on our heads and just talked gibberish into here, you know, for 52 episodes, one year was going to happen. But, but I don't know. I mean, and it did. Yeah.

Mike (24:42.412)
Mm -hmm. Right. And it did. We stood on our heads and talked gibberish and now we've done it for another year.

Bill (24:51.564)
I know. And you know, the thing of it is, the other thing I thought about, which at this point, it's not even about expectations. It's not about anything anymore. It's a fact of this is what we do. And yes, I watched the number of plays and things have dipped a little bit, but they do. They ebb and flow and it has the entire, for 104 episodes, it ebbs and flows. I'm not worried about that anymore. But if anyone's out there listening, same thing we always say, you know, if this does anything for you, and Mike said it eloquently last week,

Mike (25:08.942)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (25:20.94)
Can you repeat what you said last week? Do you remember? Okay, yo, that's right. You had, you had Coven. You said something along the lines here. Listen up, you selfish motherfuckers.

Mike (25:23.502)
Jesus, no. I'm living in the moment, man. I don't remember last week.

Mike (25:33.206)
Oh yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, you know, don't keep this shit to yourself, man. Share it with your friends and your enemies.

Bill (25:38.508)
Right, right. So, but yeah, so, you know, we're not going anywhere. We're going to keep doing it anyhow. But if, yes, if you as one of our loyal listeners is getting something out of this, please share with a friend because I think, I mean, I'm still having fun doing this and I think you are too. So, so yeah. Okay. Cool. Well, that's enough, enough stroking each other's penises. Let's go on to something else. I don't know. And yet another thing that will not change.

Mike (25:55.662)
Yeah.

Mike (26:01.806)
Wow, my hands getting tired.

Hehehehehe

Bill (26:08.396)
And one last thing and I've got to touch base with this person. It's another note I wrote down. Do you remember that we agreed to host a meeting at 10 p .m. Eastern time next Friday night? The podcast? I didn't think you did. So it's the...

Mike (26:23.694)
No... No...

Good Lord no. What? What now? I agreed to what?

Bill (26:32.3)
So it's the it's a podcast called the Dopey podcast. They do recovery meetings and we were approached a couple months ago now or at least a month or so ago about she wanted us to lead a lead a meeting. You know, and and what I did, you and I agreed to it. And I just I I told you, I said, I'm going to set a reminder one week prior. This is one week prior. And I said, I'll touch base with her, which I haven't yet. But.

Mike (26:42.742)
Alright, it's -

very hazily ringing a bell somewhere out in the mist.

Bill (27:00.364)
Everyone, again, if you're listening, we may be leading a meeting on, I know a lot of people have heard of the Dopey podcast. They're kind of a big deal, bigger than us. So we may have that opportunity to lead a recovery meeting next Friday night. So I don't know if those go live or anything like that, but I know, yeah. And that's why when she brought it up and I reached out to you and like, yeah, what the hell, or we talked about it. In my head, I'm like, fucking really? He agreed to it. Okay.

Mike (27:15.726)
Alright. Ten o 'clock.

Mike (27:27.182)
What are you willing to do asshole?

Bill (27:33.772)
I know, and that's, I think that that might be, that might be what you said at the time. I don't remember, but, but anyhow, everyone more to come, more to come. So, all right. That was, yes, it will. And I will check with her tomorrow. So, all right. A couple of things that, and I've got a few things from the reading, but this is one that this, this was just kind of fun. Okay. So I want to, I'm going to, I'm going to read this. This was a, a story that they talked about on,

Mike (27:41.614)
More will be revealed.

Mike (27:49.806)
Alright.

Bill (28:03.628)
the morning show that I listened to, and just the other day. I don't think the, however it came up, the story was from a couple years ago, but it was kind of funny. So it was actually a raccoon that this happened to, but I'm going to read it as if this were a drunk man, okay? Okay, everyone, breaking news. A drunk man in Georgia was found frozen to a railway track by his testicles after temperatures dropped.

Mike (28:19.278)
Okay.

Mike (28:29.806)
Mmm.

Bill (28:32.78)
temperatures dropped to minus 12 degrees. The animal was seen facing an oncoming train straddling the metal tracks. This is the guy that helped. I poured the warm water under his bottom while a co -worker worked the shovel under his butt to try to break him loose. Says Neil who rescued the drunk man. So literally I'm sitting there. I was either taking a shower getting ready or whatever when they're reading this I'm like.

Mike (28:54.294)
Hehehehehe

Bill (29:00.94)
That would be fucking hilarious that that all you'd have to do is put drunk man place a raccoon and I'm like, I'm like this could this could easily be a story of some fucking.

Mike (29:10.414)
And change, change Georgia to Florida. And there you go.

Bill (29:13.228)
Yeah, yeah, or Cleveland, for God's sakes, who knows? But, but so that just made me think about it. Did you ever have, I mean, no, that was surprisingly that was that was not going to be my question. But was there ever a time either when you woke up, got yourself stuck in a weird circumstance like that when you were drunk that it was either embarrassing.

Mike (29:16.366)
Right.

Mike (29:23.246)
Did I ever get my nuts stuck to a railroad track? Okay. Okay.

Bill (29:41.58)
or possibly could have been deadly. And I don't even know, that's a very broad, kind of a broad question, but no, I didn't, I guess, maybe let me ask, I shouldn't assume. Have you ever had your testicles frozen to railroad tracks? Let's start there.

Mike (29:57.486)
Oh, let's start there. Um, to the best of my knowledge, no, but it's certainly possible. Um, right. Um, you know, I've, I've certainly, uh, come to in, in bad situations. Um, um, yeah, I, I'm.

Bill (29:59.414)
Hehehehehe

Bill (30:05.708)
Okay, good.

Mike (30:26.286)
I remember one time, um, I was, where the hell I was in California. Uh, was, um, I think I may have been staying with my mom briefly. Um, and I went up to a local, like the nearest bar, um, and got hammered, got blacked out and, uh, woke up behind the bar the next morning. I have no idea how I got out there. I have no idea. Right. You know, I'm, I slept outside in.

behind this bar out by the dumpster. Um, I would assume they just fucking poured me out there and left me. Um, yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Most certainly. And I, they probably just couldn't lift my fat ass up and get me in the dumpster. That's where I really belonged. Um, yeah, you know, I clearly anything could have happened to me. Um, it didn't. And yeah, that just, that, that came to mind. I haven't thought about that in a long damn time, but yeah. Right.

Bill (31:02.462)
Were you belonged by a dumpster?

Bill (31:23.788)
Heheheheh

Mike (31:25.838)
Yeah, there there's a, there's a dangerous one. I was the outside completely passed out. Fucking anybody could yeah. Come along and done anything to me. I wouldn't have known.

Bill (31:34.924)
Right. Yeah, the only one that, and I was, I really, when I write this shit down, I try not to, I said this before, but I really try not to think about it because I don't want to ruin my thoughts or whatever, kind of, you know, railroad track it into one direction. But I mean, I was trying to think about, you know, places I couldn't think of one right off the top of my head. But the only thing that just popped into my head was, did I ever talk about that bar where I almost got...

Mike (31:45.294)
Right.

Mike (31:52.012)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (32:02.796)
I literally probably could have gotten killed by like seven black guys in a bathroom. Did I ever tell you that one? Okay. Okay. So when Dawn and I were together, again, people that she worked with and a few other people, we'd go out to, you know, there was like, you know, there was some bars and then also some like dance clubs and things like that around. But how many falls to the north side of Milwaukee? Where, Mike, were you and I went to?

Mike (32:09.23)
Hmm. No, I don't believe I've heard this one. No.

Bill (32:29.42)
to see Lita Ford, that place that's a strip club used to be a dance club, for instance. So we'd go there sometimes. And then there was this, basically it was a hip hop bar, dance club, did a couple of her, she worked with a couple of younger women who were, she was friends with and I got to know them too. They're very cool, but they used to like this bar, you know, like great dance music and whatever. So we go down, we go down there a couple of times. It wasn't in the worst neighborhood, but there had been, I mean, there's shootings there every once in a while. There's, you know, fights.

Mike (32:31.886)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, right.

Bill (32:59.372)
It's not the greatest place in the world to be. But we go with a group of people, it's no big deal, it's fun. So we go down there one time and I'm fucking loaded. I mean, not like stumbling drunk, but clearly after you hear what I said, you're gonna realize I certainly wasn't in my right mind. So I go into the bathroom and it's a small bathroom. And again, there's probably, there's five, six, seven black dudes in there. And nobody, it had nothing to do with the color of their skin or anything like that.

Mike (33:03.758)
Huh?

Mike (33:18.766)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (33:27.148)
Everyone was cool. We were all having a good time. I said something stupid and they were about ready to kill me. So I'm in there, I go to the bathroom, wash my hands and this one dude, he's like sitting on the counter, he's talking to his buddies and these blah, blah, blah, somehow comes up with a conversation that he needs to find some pussy, can't get pussy, whatever he's like. He goes, I'm sitting here looking for pussy and then I'm washing my hands and I'm like, well, maybe your problem is you're looking for pussy in a men's bathroom.

Mike (33:29.74)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:35.086)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (33:54.092)
He jumps off the counter and the rest of the guys form a circle around me. And I'm like, in my head, I mean, seriously, I'm like, oh, fuck me, you know? And I'm just being the same guy I am now, what, but I was drunk, you know? But I mean, my smart mouth was always there, but you know, clearly I wouldn't have said something like that in a normal state. And the guy's like, what the fuck did you say to me? And I'm like, dude, I was just fucking around. And then he comes up, he puts his arm around me.

Mike (33:55.498)
Hehehehehe

Mike (34:00.654)
Mmm.

Mike (34:13.868)
Uh -huh.

Right.

Bill (34:21.216)
And he's just one of the, and his guys are kind of closing and he's like, what's your fucking name? And he's asking me all this stuff. What do you do for a living? He started asking me shit. And then I'm like, you know, seriously, I was just fucking around. Then he asked me a couple of questions and he's like, you know what? He goes, you're, you're sure. All right. He goes, that was funny. He goes kind of a ballsy fucking thing to say in a, you know, a bathroom with a bunch of people you don't know, but he goes, that's fucking funny. He goes, he goes, have a good night. And I'm just like, Oh, but um,

Mike (34:45.038)
Yep.

Bill (34:47.788)
No reason in the world why they wouldn't have or shouldn't have just beat the fuck out of me. You know? And yeah. So that was probably my, I would say my most dangerous one, but...

Mike (34:55.436)
Mm -mm. Yeah, I mean...

Mike (35:02.542)
Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that's that's good. And it is a good line. And yeah, they would have been complete assholes to actually beat you up over that. Yeah, fucking with you back is pretty good. But yeah, it's a good line. Yeah. What are you looking for? Pussy in men's room for asshole.

Bill (35:15.5)
Hehehe

Bill (35:23.308)
Yeah, I know. Yeah, great line, but you gotta know your crowd. Read the room, I guess would have been the best way to put it. But do you?

Mike (35:33.198)
Right. Sure. Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, dangerous shit.

Mike (35:42.286)
DIY.

Bill (35:44.396)
Oh, yeah, I was just going to say, do you hear me cut out at all? Because you're cutting out every once in a while. I feel like we have a delay a little bit.

Mike (35:49.358)
Yeah. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. Quite a bit actually. You're cutting out on my end. Yep.

Bill (35:53.324)
Really? Okay.

Well, that's kind of weird. Um, all right. You know what? Maybe, should we take a break and like start up a new studio? I mean, nobody's, I don't know. I mean, just between you and me, we go ahead and do it because we're having, I think the conversation's going fine, but every once in a while I don't hear anything. And then I was wondering if you were cutting out or if I was, so I don't know.

Mike (36:00.366)
Yeah.

Mike (36:07.374)
Right.

Mike (36:15.692)
Mm -hmm.

I think we both are. Yeah. You know what? This is a good time. You will take a break. We will have a word from our sponsor. We will re -rig some stuff and we'll be right back with more nonsense with hopefully not a delay.

Bill (36:18.508)
So what do you think? Should we?

Bill (36:36.652)
Okay, I'm just making a note of the time. Okay, I'm gonna, hang on one second, let's stop this.

Bill (00:01.736)
Alright everyone, welcome back and yet another thing that will not change in season 5. Technical issues, us talking about it openly and the fact that I'm not going to edit any of that fucking shit when I said that we were going to start a new studio. Fuck it, we're keeping it real, yo.

Mike (00:06.422)
Hehehehehe

Mike (00:21.134)
Alright, you caught me taking a drink. God damn it. That was the whitest keeping it real yo I have ever heard in my life. Those black guys should have kicked your ass.

Bill (00:23.576)
But yeah, I know I did it. Speaking of speaking to get my ass kicked by the by the fellows, but but yeah, so I don't know. Whatever you know, we're that's the one thing and I'm proud of the fact that I think I've said that before that that we don't edit anything. You know, it's funny is had this happened because.

Mike (00:35.118)
Hehehehehe

Mike (00:47.918)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (00:49.816)
you know, with all this new stuff with, like I was saying, with Spotify, and I figured it all out how to do it all in one episode, this and that. That would have been perfect because I wouldn't have had to cut the episode and everything like that. But now I'm going to have to merge the episode together. But it's not a big deal because I got to throw, I throw in the other stuff that we do. It's easy. I did it last week in one chunk and it was actually, I got it done. I had one minor issue as a technology thing, but.

Mike (00:56.686)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (01:05.494)
Hehehehehe

Bill (01:19.864)
It worked perfectly. The only thing still that bothers me is that, you know, cause I'm listening to, like I said, I listened to our old clips and stuff like that on Facebook from like a year ago. And I like having the background music in our daily clips, you know, but at some point, you know, I've looked briefly, you know, to try to figure out. And I, again, I'm not, I'm not doing more fucking work on this. I'm just not, man. You guys are going to have to. And.

Mike (01:33.294)
Uh huh.

Bill (01:46.316)
All the clips I did this week were with an app called Headliner that I've used anyhow and, you know, yeah, it worked out fine. So that's that. But yeah, anyhow, we're back. Technology issues or not, we're fucking here, man. All right, so we talked about raccoon testicles getting beat up.

Mike (01:55.79)
Alright.

And our testicles are railroad track free.

Bill (02:06.04)
Yeah, and that is the one thing. I thankfully have never gotten my testicles caught, frozen, too, or anything. My testicles are, you know, after 55 years, they're still intact. So they don't produce babies anymore, but, you know, they're intact. Yeah, that's one of my pickup lines. By the way, I can't get you pregnant, so hey, I got that going for me.

Mike (02:24.91)
Alright.

Mike (02:34.094)
Great.

Bill (02:35.992)
All right. All right. So let's get on to let's quit fucking around here. Let's get on to some more stuff. Yeah, just kidding. I know. So this one I was out. Where was I last week? I can't remember. Oh, I stopped to get lunch at Firehouse subs last Saturday, which a lot of times I'll do. And that's did I ever tell you that that I still do that? We used to stop it. I used to go to Firehouse with Derek.

Mike (02:42.722)
Alright. We stop fucking around, we won't have a podcast.

Bill (03:04.216)
We started going years ago and then we'd pick that up every week when we go over to see mom on Saturdays. You know, so actually since she's passed away, I mean with few exceptions, I usually get firehouse on Saturday because it kind of, I don't know, kind of reminds me of her. So, but plus I like the food.

Mike (03:19.18)
Mm -hmm. Sure.

Mike (03:24.75)
Yeah, right. Yeah, they're pretty good. You've taken me there a couple of times. I like it. It's just fine.

Bill (03:28.568)
Oh yeah. But so anyhow, so I'm sitting in Firehouse and I'm waiting for my my order. I'm sitting down at the table and I saw this dude and this lady walk in and it just I immediately made the note on my phone. Have you ever looked at you ever looked at somebody in public and just like man that that person looks like a fucking alcoholic? OK, OK, and I knew you'd be honest about that, but I'm sitting there and I'm like that's just I mean.

Mike (03:47.278)
Ha ha!

Yes I have.

Bill (03:57.496)
So both of them had probably, maybe they lived, I don't know, they lived a hard life, but they, both of them looked like fucking drunks to me, you know, they weren't stumbling or anything like that. But you know, you look at somebody like, you're like, ah, that person drinks a lot. Or you, or you see a guy or a lady walking out of the store with a big bottle of something or a, you know, a case of whatever and you're like, yeah.

Mike (04:02.158)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

Mike (04:10.486)
Mm -hmm. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, you know, you see the gym blossoms and yeah, right. Yep.

Bill (04:24.824)
I figured, yeah, you would have that, wouldn't you? I just, I don't know.

Mike (04:29.358)
Oh yeah, absolutely right. Oh, I saw a guy at 10 o 'clock this morning walking out of a liquor store with a bag and I went up. Yep. Look at that 10 in the morning, man. I remember that. Yep.

Bill (04:32.662)
Yeah, and I don't mean to.

Bill (04:39.874)
Hahaha!

Yeah, well, shit like I told you about that. I used to do that. I used to go at the liquor stores open at eight in the morning because I had to when I had to work, like start work at nine or whatever the one place I was working. And yeah, I mean, sometimes I had to go literally have to go there at, you know, fucking eight o 'clock in the morning, literally eight or five, you know, and grab whatever I needed. So I would have, you know, booze that night. But, you know, I don't know it.

Mike (05:07.854)
go. Yeah, right. Shit, man. I, yeah, there was a point in my life where, well, in California, the liquor stores opened at six in the morning and, uh, I would be standing out front at five 45 waiting for them to open. Yep.

Bill (05:20.984)
Well, okay, so maybe that's another thing. This reminded me of something my dad used to say, and I know people did it a lot. They even talk about it in the 24 -hour book. Did you ever go to a bar first thing in the morning to get well or no?

Mike (05:36.27)
I was never a bar drinker. I mean, not really. Yeah. So, um, I'm trying to think, um, no, I mean, I, you know, again, um, I, I'd go to a liquor store, you know, or whatever. Yeah. You know, convenience store, get a 12 pack of beer or whatever. Yeah. I, yeah, I done, I generally went to stores. I didn't go to bars to get well. I'd go to a bar occasionally to, you know, hang out, but.

Bill (05:38.616)
Okay.

Mike (06:06.572)
No.

Bill (06:07.512)
And I just wonder if, and my dad used to, especially when there was a place in Parma that he used to go to, and he said they, at that time, and he's obviously back in the 70s, he got sober at 81, but he said they, he said people would go there for what they called openers, and he said the, he goes, he's usually the same, yeah, three to five guys every single day before work, and he said the way the bartender was.

Mike (06:21.718)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (06:25.87)
Yeah. Eye openers.

Mike (06:33.196)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (06:34.936)
All these guys would sit down and do exactly what they wanted. The guy would just pour their shot or whatever and the bartender would just turn away, let them get their first fix and then kind of like turn back around and see if anyone wanted anything else. And I'm sure it was a sad sight, but you know what I mean. I don't know, I just, I never did that either. It's not that I didn't drink in the morning. I just, I never went to, never went to a bar in the morning.

Mike (06:38.828)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (06:49.282)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (06:53.482)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (07:01.294)
Right. Mm -mm. No.

Bill (07:03.096)
So, yeah, I don't know. That was one that just crossed my mind. But yeah, judging people, you're a fucking alcoholic. But okay, so I'm not the only one. Okay, good. All right, so another thing that ran across my brain this week, I believe. So a lot of people say that the first time that they took a drink, they felt like that was the thing that they were missing. You know, like from that moment, it was their solution and that sort of thing. Do you think that...

Mike (07:10.926)
Yeah.

Bill (07:32.568)
that was, was that for you or no? Did you feel that way?

Mike (07:38.286)
Um, I mean, for me, I always wanted to drink even before I could. Um, and before I did, um, I certainly drank before I should. Uh, but, um, no, I mean, I always wanted to drink, you know, um, I've family functions I've talked about before, you know, I mean, you know, any holiday, any family get together, that sort of thing. Um, certainly the people, my mom hung out with.

Um, her friends and stuff that, you know, I'd watch them party and I was like, fuck, I want to do that. I mean, I, that was early, early, I mean, four years old looking at that, those people going, yeah, I want to do that. So, um, I kind of already had it in my head that that's, that was going to be the solution to things. And it was, um, but yeah, it wasn't, I mean, I don't recall my first drink. I, I,

I think I talked about it in my story. I mean, family tradition when teething babies, you rubbed whiskey on their gums. So, you know, I had my first actual drink. My mom told me a story of when she nursed me for a while and the doctor, God, I love the fucking 60s and 70s. The doctor told her to drink a beer because it would help with the milk production. So I'm sure she had more than one, you know, yeah, right. Doctor recommended, you know.

Bill (08:55.032)
Ha ha!

Mike (09:05.058)
These cigarettes are good for you as opposed to these other cigarettes. So yeah, I mean, I'm sure I started ingesting alcohol from the get go, possibly even in your utero. So by the time I got to it, it was it was there. It was already in my head that that's what I wanted to do. And I had already ingested the stuff before I even had memories of it. So, yeah, you know.

It was sort of the natural progression for me.

Bill (09:37.848)
Right. Let's just, I mean, I don't know. It's interesting. I, and I think you know what I mean. You know, we've heard people, um, you know, stand up at a podium and say that, you know, I had my first drink and it's like, Hey, um, you know, and what it reminded me of. And you remember when, when Jim Benny said that the first time that he, you know, he drank for years and that chick that he was hanging out with, um, she's smoking crack. And he's like, why do you do this? Why do you do this? And he's like, fine, give me that. I'll try it. And he said, you know, he first, you know, first drag on that, on that crack pipe and his, his.

Mike (09:45.132)
Mm -hmm. Sure.

Mike (09:56.59)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (10:06.68)
Words always were, hello. And then he goes, then his line was, he goes, I only picked up crack once, but he goes, I didn't put it down for three years. And you know, I think that the same as you, when I was a kid, and I think I've talked about it on here, between my dad and my uncles and this and that, I remember at family gatherings that they used to think it was a fucking hoot.

Mike (10:09.014)
You're right.

Mike (10:17.902)
right.

Mike (10:32.302)
Okay.

Bill (10:35.512)
to give me, it's like, oh, I'd walk over and I'm like, oh, can I have a drink of that water and it's vodka. And then all of them be like, yeah, take a sip, go, you're fine. You take a drink of it and you're like, holy fuck, and you're three and four years old. And then sneaking drinks when I was, God, we still lived in Parma. We were stealing the little mini beers from, me and my friends were stealing from our families. I know when we went to Pittsburgh, we were sipping on shit and whatever, but I still don't,

Mike (10:36.11)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:41.23)
Mm -hmm.

Alright. Alright.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:58.796)
Uh huh.

Bill (11:05.144)
I don't think that I ever had, I don't remember having that moment where it's like, this is my deal and this is what I want to do forever type of thing. You know, but you know, once I, once I started going out and having fun and that sort of thing, um, and even back, I suppose even back to that, you know, I mean stealing beer and stuff as a kid, I suppose it's a kid thing, but not necessarily normal drinking. I didn't drink normally in high school. I did sort of sure shit didn't drink normally that, that year I went to college. And after that I never, and I've said it.

Mike (11:10.702)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Mike (11:26.638)
Hmm.

Bill (11:34.22)
You know, I probably a hundred times on here. I never ever ever just went out to dinner, had a meal or sat down socially and had a drink with somebody and that's it. You know, and never, you know, I don't think even once in my life, you know. So I don't know.

Mike (11:47.31)
Now, mm -mm. No, oh, absolutely not. I mean, the few occasions where, for whatever reason, I was forced to only have a couple of beers or whatever in some sort of situation, I was fucking miserable. Yeah, that's definitely not anything I wanted to do. No, of course not. No, I wanna get loaded.

Bill (12:10.872)
Right. Yeah, I mean, it just, it never really made any sense to me, you know, just it, not that, I don't know what, and in my head, it wasn't like I only want to drink if I could get drunk, but it never made sense to me in my head to just, it's the same thing. You know, you talk about, I don't know, like whatever the serving size is for a bag of potato chips, okay? It's fucking, it's ridiculous, you know, or, you know, having, I don't know, you get a bag of the little,

Mike (12:16.62)
Mm -mm.

Mike (12:25.932)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (12:39.05)
Hershey bars, you know or something like that Who's gonna have one, you know, are you just gonna have one little bar of chocolate? I mean, it's just I'm sure people do It just seems insane to me. Yeah, I know doesn't it seem insane even on that banner so

Mike (12:41.26)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (12:44.896)
Right, right.

I guess, right. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, right.

Bill (12:59.106)
Yeah, I don't know. It just again crossed my mind about and I don't know if I heard that on something, but it just popped into my head. But yeah, it just never never made sense to me. I mean, again, not that it did make sense to me that people found that as their solution. But, you know, I just never had it happen. So but. All right.

Mike (13:15.534)
Nah, nah, yeah, there was never, well, I mean, generally when you hear that from the podium, you know, they're like, you know, yeah, I was, uh, you know, 13 years old and, and I, you know, I, it was my first, you know, I went out for the first time and had, you know, six beers and I had had that feeling and it was all amazing. And yeah, like you, man, it was, it was drabs and dribbles pretty much all the way up until when we got to the point where we could put in as much as we wanted to.

Bill (13:44.152)
Right? Yeah, I kind of like that. Drabbs and dribbles. I don't think I've ever heard that put that way before. So, yeah, that's kind of funny. All right. So another thing, and again, God only knows how I thought up about this, but so do you ever find yourselves, not necessarily in a sobriety standpoint, but do you ever find yourself still looking for the easier, softer way?

Mike (13:50.028)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (14:10.872)
And I, again, I don't mean from your sobriety standpoint, but just in life.

Mike (14:12.334)
Right? In life, of course. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, but thankfully, I had enough training, if you will, in this thing that I recognize when I'm doing it. And I know it's not what I should be doing because I know...

In the long run, uh, that it's not going to serve me very well in the, in the immediate moment. Um, it may be easier, but again, in the long run, I know that it's, it's, it's not going to be the best way to do something. So, um, I generally stopped myself from doing it, um, go for the more difficult, harder way. Um, but yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Bill (15:01.848)
Ha ha.

Mike (15:04.334)
Again, it's like everything else, you know, we've spent the first four decades of our lives living that way. Yes, naturally that's where our brains are going to go. First thought wrong. And then we recognize it and go, eh, it's probably not a good idea to do it that way. I should probably do it the right way, even if it's a little bit harder and a little more arduous.

Bill (15:30.328)
That's the first big word of the podcast, arduous. But you know what, and I thought about that and I know I do too. And thankfully when it comes down to, I don't want to say the important stuff, but the most important thing to us from a sobriety standpoint, I mean thankfully, I don't think that either one of us try to take that shortcuts or easier, softer way with this thing we do. But I know that, and it just popped into my head when you were talking.

Mike (15:35.534)
There it is.

Mike (15:57.42)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:00.664)
I know now, at least in the last, it's probably, maybe it has been since I've been sober. Like if I buy something that has to be put together, I do, I go step by step through the instructions, even if it looks like something I know how to put together, where I never used to do that. I mean, I look at them like, I fucking, I know how to do this. And I would just do it. And then, you know, either you end up with, you know, a piece on backwards or you end up with, you know, four screws left and.

Mike (16:15.308)
Hmm.

Mike (16:20.718)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:29.208)
It's not the spare ones that they send along, you know, because there's certain things and I think the chair that I have and I ended up buying a new chair and it comes with, I don't know, three or four extra screws. But when you look at the package of the screws, it's like they're all, I don't know, it's cellophane or whatever plastic put on a piece of cardboard. And it says right on there, these are extras. You know, so.

Mike (16:31.054)
Right.

Mike (16:46.254)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (16:50.988)
Right?

Great.

Bill (16:55.128)
So, you know, yeah, so when you're done, you know that you should have the extras, but yeah, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I know for a fact, I want shit to happen. That goes back to impatience, right? I mean, I know for me, it's probably the looking for the easier, softer way, it's just lack of patience, I would think, right?

Mike (17:08.878)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (17:14.286)
Yeah, pretty much. Right. And, and I love you guys. I read the instructions now. Yeah. I'm the same way too. Wonder where we got that from. Here's the instructions. Read them.

Bill (17:24.888)
I know.

I know, which is crazy, right? Because I mean, we, I was gonna say we, but I know I never did that, you know?

Mike (17:34.83)
No, I, no, I didn't either. Right. Oh, I could throw this thing together. I can figure it out. Right. And yeah, like you said, you know, he ended up with extra shit or whatever. Yeah. Right. Or you didn't do that and you've got these extra ones. And so you're like, you know, drilling new holes to put these extra screws in.

Bill (17:53.304)
Yeah, I would have to say that I can't think of a specific example of that, but I'm sure that I've I drilled a couple of extra holes in my life putting stuff together. And just a side note, we're still getting a delay. Can you can you tell?

Mike (18:01.324)
Hmm.

Yeah, I know. Yep, oh yeah.

Bill (18:10.296)
Yeah, you know, it's it'll be it'll be so interesting to see if if this pieces together right, but we're going to end up having some spaces because I know that like when I said something, there's a pause and I'm sure I think what's it's happening, whether it's on my end or your end, it's after I'm done speaking, there's that there that's where the delay is either when it's getting to you or coming from me because there's going to be spaces in there. But anyhow, I just as long as we know that it's happening, then maybe we you know, now we just we.

Mike (18:22.348)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:29.454)
Right.

Bill (18:39.39)
recognize there's going to be a little delay in our conversation. So whatever the fuck, whatever, right?

Mike (18:40.142)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:45.518)
Absolutely. Right. Yes. But yeah, clearly, you know, yeah. Like you said, when we took our little break, apparently AT &T is running this thing.

Bill (18:46.52)
is what it is.

Bill (18:55.504)
Yeah, and it's, I don't know, because I even, I closed out the entire, I just came out of Riverside completely. I closed out of the browser. I didn't restart my computer, but I did. I had reset the modem before we started and stuff, but who knows? There's been weird shit going on in the internet world these days, so the last few days, so who knows? But once again, you know, well, yeah, why us, God damn it? Well, I, I,

Mike (19:10.51)
Yeah, me too.

Mike (19:14.83)
There is. Yep. So why wouldn't it affect us?

Who the fuck are we?

Bill (19:23.318)
You know what? I think we're kind of a big deal. You know, I think we just talked about that a little bit, didn't we? I know, I was trying. Okay, so yet another thing that's not gonna change in season five, Bill is still gonna be a fucking egotist.

Mike (19:26.574)
All right, did we? Are we?

Mike (19:41.574)
Chief egotistical officer.

Bill (19:46.136)
Yeah, I will tell you there was somebody that I had met. I met through a dating app right after we started this thing. So, I mean, clearly, and obviously a couple of years ago or almost two years ago now. And I don't know, it's one of the things that I was kind of joking around that one of the, at least for me, I think one of the funniest parts of meeting a new person is saying, if you really want to know me, sober, not mature, listen to a couple of episodes, you're going to get a really good fucking idea.

Mike (19:56.236)
Mmm.

All right.

Bill (20:13.44)
of whether or not you want to spend even a minute with me, let alone a little bit of time. And she, this is after we had the website in place and stuff like that. And she's like, chief egotistical officer. She's like, what is that? You know, cause we, I didn't know her that well, you know, I knew her for like a month or something like that. And then whatever, what is yours? Yours is chief obscenity officer. That said, yeah, you're COO. And.

Mike (20:15.01)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:31.34)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (20:39.32)
And I said, she's like, are those like your alter egos or something? Or what is that? And I said, yeah, kind of. But I'm like, yeah, just listen. You know, it's, yeah.

Mike (20:43.566)
No, nothing alter about them. Those are our egos.

Bill (20:51.352)
Right. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, the funny part that was, you know, you figure a couple of years ago now, it was a person I had met that she was in Milwaukee working and we met up for coffee and stuff like that. I hung out for the week that she was there. But I just think it was like a month or so ago. I mean, I keep in touch with her every once in a while. So, you know, I didn't completely. We had we haven't scared her away yet. So. But yeah, we we are what we are, as they say, right?

Mike (21:18.094)
All right, need to try harder.

Bill (21:20.888)
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. All right. OK, so there was a one of the podcasts that I was listening to, I think it was last weekend. And this was this was kind of funny. This, you know, that necessarily goes along with what we were talking about. But I guess, yeah, kind of it does. So the podcast that I was listening to, one of the one of the guys on there said that, you know, he literally said that he goes every once in a while he goes.

He's been sober about the same amount of time as us, but he goes, I do enjoy being a prick every once in a while still. And he said, he goes that he had, he said some hat that he had, he didn't really explain what it was, but he said it was a hat that he has that he knew would get a reaction from some people. And he said he wore it out to the grocery store when he went grocery shopping on purpose, because he knew that people would see it and react to it. And he did it on purpose. And he said, he goes, yeah, he goes, I just.

Mike (21:57.358)
Mmm.

Mike (22:11.052)
Mm.

Bill (22:19.382)
He goes, I felt like being a prick that day. So I wore my, he wasn't, he was saying it wasn't like super offensive. He did not even say what it was. Um, but I just thought that was kind of funny. So my question is, do you, it's, it could have been, I was thinking political. I was thinking, you know, anything like, who knows, who knows, you know, but, um, so do you ever get in that, in that mode at all where you're just like, fuck it. I want to piss people off today.

Mike (22:28.334)
I bet it was red.

Mike (22:35.372)
Hehehehehe

Right?

Mike (22:47.118)
Oh, absolutely. All the time. Well, did you happen to see the pictures I posted? Kathy got me a birthday present.

Bill (22:49.334)
Hehehe

Bill (22:58.008)
Oh, did you post them today?

Mike (23:00.686)
I did.

Bill (23:02.232)
Oh, okay, yeah, I haven't been on Facebook since this morning, but yeah, I know the t -shirt, but yeah, it's. But yeah, explain it.

Mike (23:05.858)
All right. OK. Well, it's a QR code. And if you scan it with your phone, a little message pops up that says, go fuck yourself.

Bill (23:20.696)
Yeah, I thought.

Mike (23:23.15)
And I cannot wait to wear it out into the wild.

Bill (23:26.808)
That sounds like a Founder's Day t -shirt.

Mike (23:31.054)
Oh, it will be.

Bill (23:32.792)
Right. Well, and whenever it was that she came across it, she sent me a text and she's like, look, she's like, you know, when you do this and she's like, I'm ordering this for Mike for his birthday. And however she came across it, then when she got it, she, I did, I scanned it, it came up and I showed her and she's like, oh, that's kind of cool. Whatever. So yeah, she, she mailed it out. I don't know whatever, whatever day it was. She's like, oh, I'm trying to get this to the post office. Cause now, now it's late and whatever, but yeah, I haven't been on Facebook yet this afternoon, but I'll take a look at it. Nice.

Mike (23:59.214)
I got it today.

Bill (24:02.264)
So what that reminds me of is that the one year for Founders Day when you wore the I Fuck For Satan t -shirt. Yeah, so you can give the whole backstory about that. Yeah, you can give the backstory on that where it came from, right?

Mike (24:11.566)
Ah, yes. Prime example.

Mike (24:20.782)
Well, our friend Bo had the t -shirt and I went oh that is really fucking cool And so I went and got one for myself and yes, I worked founders day one year because yes I will there that was an answer to your question. Yes. I like to go out and be a prick absolutely

Bill (24:37.72)
And when I was listening to that podcast, I knew that that that was immediately what that that t -shirt, you know, of yours came to mind. And then even when I mean the t -shirt I wore last year, the 13 step one, you know, I figured that I had a couple of people, not many people, I don't think really even noticed it, but the people who did. I mean, I get a couple of reactions from it, but the same thing. I didn't give a fuck. And that's the reason that I put that shirt together is for that reason. I wanted to, I want to fuck with people.

Mike (24:53.454)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (25:07.512)
But I remember the, yeah, so our friend Bo, who is a female, had that t -shirt on. And I remember if I was around when you saw her with it, but then I remember you got it. And then, yeah, we're at Founders Day and we're walking around and I'm not thinking anything of it, but then every once in a while, you know, people were walking by and you'd get either the, oh my God, that's fucking great, or Jesus Christ, did you see that t -shirt? People coming up there, you know,

Mike (25:07.99)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (25:16.494)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (25:36.44)
people wanted to get pictures with you and it was, and then we, it was one of the few years that we had to rain delay and they cleared everyone out of the stadium and we're waiting up in the concession area. And a lot of people had cleared out. And I remember you and I were walking back down and you were walking in front of me and these two chicks were walking up the other way. And I saw them look at it with just this weird thing. And then the one girl says to the other, she's like,

Mike (25:39.436)
Hehehehehe

Mike (25:49.676)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (26:04.28)
you see what his t -shirt says that's just so offensive. And I'm like, I'm yeah, I'm just like, that's, that's the exact reaction that well, I know that you wanted, but I was looking for all day too after, you know, just looking for people to, you know, it, and it is, it's, it's fun, but you know, that rule 62, right, or whatever, it just, it just in general, you know, I mean, fuck people. I don't know.

Mike (26:09.326)
Yep. Yeah, clutch those curls, honey.

Mike (26:20.95)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (26:31.246)
Absolutely. Yeah. Don't take yourself too damn seriously. Right. Absolutely. I mean, well, you know, I've got my car. I'm actually the last three or four cars I've had. I have a hail Satan sticker on the back of my car. And, you know, I've also got an AA triangle. Um, and I actually got stopped a couple of years ago by some guy who was like that and AA stickers. Yeah. He's all, how do you.

make those two work together. I just looked at him as a dude, I'm an atheist. So, um, it works just fine. The stickers there just to make people think, you know, and that's exactly why it's there. There is no God, there is no Satan. It's all made up and you know, and I still work in a program deal with that.

Bill (27:20.248)
Right. Well, and that's the whole thing with, um, at the, at the retreat, you know, the fucking Jesus boy, you know, and I didn't even realize I, at the time that it happened, I didn't put, you know, the two and two together that, um, cause you're, you're the one that said after the fact that he saw you get out of your car, you know, so that's obviously when, when he decided that he was going to start trying to save you.

Mike (27:27.03)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (27:42.158)
Hehehehehe

Bill (27:45.368)
But yeah, I don't know. It just, I mean, your car, I don't know, all the stickers you have on there. I mean, the way that you, some of the t -shirts you wear, I mean, you've got all your, you got your tattoos and your piercings and your rings and whatever. I mean, I don't know, you've got a thing about you. You've got a purposeful, well, there's a specific way that you dress, accessorize your car, accessorize yourself and stuff like that.

Mike (28:11.16)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:13.656)
And it's a part of who you are, but it's not you. It doesn't define you just because of the way all those different things. Now, I know that now, but it cracks me the fuck up knowing that that's why, I mean, first of all, I never, and I know neither one of us really think about it anymore that unless we start laughing at each other about it of how different you and I are, how different you and I look. And...

Mike (28:23.726)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (28:37.368)
Mm -hmm. Right. Right.

Bill (28:41.016)
And when, when we hang out, we don't think about it, you know, cause we, we could be anywhere, you know, and we don't, we don't think about it until we start getting weird fucking looks or whatever. And, um, I mean, it just, it's funny, but I don't know it people. This is the same thing. I couldn't even imagine walking up to somebody, um, knowing what I know now about AA and the diversity of people and all those sorts of things and asking somebody that had a, a Satan thing and in an AA sticker.

Mike (28:46.126)
Right.

Mike (29:02.318)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (29:11.16)
and saying how does that work? Because I know how it does. It doesn't matter what the fuck you believe in. You what I mean? I mean, well, I know you know.

Mike (29:14.382)
you know, I'm not going to lie. Oh, absolutely. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, well, there's, I mean, there's a whole subset. I mean, I've, there's a book. I own it. Uh it's Satanic Recovery. Um you know, it's it's it's it's bullshit just like all the rest of it. Uh but I do have the book. I've read about half of it and um you know, you know, cuz I wanted to check it out.

because I'm open to spiritual concepts and that is a spiritual concept. And like I said, you know, it's in my opinion, it's bullshit, just like the rest of it is. And that's fine, but it works for some people. So that therefore it has value.

Bill (29:56.376)
Right. Well, in my, right. Well, in my default, you know, or I don't want to say defense to it, but I guess it is in a general sense is that, you know, AA is a worldwide thing. It's not just a, just an American thing. It's not just a, you know, a mainstream religion type of thing, because I mean, I knew that from, from the start, but, and I think when speaking of Founders Day,

Mike (29:57.774)
It's just not for me.

Bill (30:24.536)
And I'm sure I brought this up on here before, but we were, I don't know, five, six, maybe even seven years sober. And the dude that read How It Works at Founders Day was from, clearly from India, you know, had the whole head gear on the whole bit, you know. And now I don't know right off the top of my head in India, what do they worship? Do you know? It's not the mainstream God, right?

Mike (30:38.518)
Mm -hmm, right.

Mike (30:50.798)
No, no, they've got a bunch of them. Yeah. The Hindus do, you know, and then there's subsets of that, you know, and the six and all that stuff. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's several religions over there too. And, and, but yeah, I mean, the main one is Hinduism and there was a bunch of gods in that one.

Bill (31:07.576)
Right. So it works for this dude. And I think at the time, I mean, he was like 15, 16, 17 years sober. And then you talk about there's Buddhists out there. There's all these, it doesn't even matter. There's people all over the world that are sober through Alcoholics Anonymous. And they are not us. They are not you. You know, they're not me. And they're certainly not walking into and praising, you know, the God of

Mike (31:15.084)
Right.

Mike (31:31.628)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (31:36.96)
mainstream religion and as soon as it wasn't even that founder stated that came to light but it was just kind of like what a great example of The thing because that's a whole point this thing doesn't this the AA thing doesn't work if it's only a an American mainstream God thing It doesn't work doesn't work everywhere. If that's if that's all that it is it just doesn't you know, I mean it I'll be like saying the only way the only way can get sober in this program is if you eat hot sauce You know, well, I can't eat hot sauce

Mike (31:43.374)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (31:55.726)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (32:04.27)
Right.

Bill (32:05.56)
Well, then you can't be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Well, why not? Can I have a spice greater than myself rather than, I don't want hot sauce. You know? Yeah. Can it be anything other than? But yeah, I don't know. Let's put some cumin on our dinner. What? You put what on there?

Mike (32:11.726)
Right, can it be paprika?

Mike (32:25.358)
Common? Human?

Mike (32:33.07)
Right, what?

Bill (32:34.872)
I misunderstood. But yeah, so and I knew that literally your Satan t -shirt was the first thing I thought about when, you know, as far as being a prick and it is fun sometimes. I think the whole point to that, I guess to wrap up our little thing, this little, that little story and a nice little bow is that first of all, people don't, people take themselves too goddamn seriously. We talked about that, but on top of it too, we're not wearing out a t -shirt trying to hurt people. We're not being racist with a t -shirt.

Mike (32:47.212)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (32:57.55)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:02.542)
No. No. Be positive. I fuck for Satan.

Bill (33:04.216)
Um, you know, if we're, you know, we're just out there to. Right. Right. But, but you know what I mean, it's there's a different story with going out and just wanting to shock people a little bit than, I mean, we're not being mean or cruel. So I don't know. It's just, it's funny to me. It's yeah. And it, uh, it, I, I was completely 100 % agreeing with that guy when he was talking about like, yeah, it's, I don't know what the fuck you wore, but.

Mike (33:22.636)
Mm -mm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (33:34.02)
Excuse me talk amongst yourself for a minute. I think I need to take a drink of coffee hang up

Mike (33:39.85)
All right, yes. And now my lovely sister has gotten me a t -shirt with the QR code on it that when you scan it, tells you to go fuck yourself.

Bill (33:50.968)
Whew, that was weird. Sitting there talking and I'm like, I'm start choking on air or something like that. So I don't know what the fuck that was, but anyhow, anyhow, so yeah, that's, yeah, definitely. You know what, do me a favor and text me those pictures or I can grab them off of Facebook and I'll post them on our Instagram page too. Okay, cool.

Mike (33:57.518)
Hehehehehe

Mike (34:08.366)
Right. Well, I put them on the sober, not mature page as well. So they're there.

Bill (34:16.344)
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. I'll grab them off of there and put them on Instagram. I'll try not to cross post them so they're not double posted. Cause yeah, when you put them on Facebook, it doesn't shoot over to Instagram, but it does vice versa. So.

Mike (34:27.886)
And I think this episode's cover picture, thumbnail, whatever the hell it's called will be that QR code.

Bill (34:35.928)
Ooh, yes. Yeah, that's fine. That'll work. I think that should be. That's nice. I like that. All right. Well, ooh. Now that makes me happy. I like that. I like that a lot.

Mike (34:40.398)
Hehehehehe

Mike (34:48.098)
Good. See, I'm making other people happy with my awful obnoxious behavior.

Bill (34:50.36)
Okay.

Right, right. Yeah, you're making your little corner of the world a better place, right?

Mike (35:01.568)
Exactly.

Bill (35:04.12)
Okay, so this is one from, God, this is from a while ago from Keep It Simple. Today I'll list the people and places that are risky for me to be around. And I put parentheses, I didn't read this yet. Even though we are spiritually fit, are there still places that you will not go? So let me repeat that. Today I'll list the people and places that are risky for me to be around.

And just as a side note, even though, I mean, we feel that we're spiritually fit, are there still places that that you will not go?

Mike (35:38.158)
I mean, no, there's really no place I won't go. Um, you know, I can go anywhere as long as I have a reason to be there. Um, but there's certainly people I wouldn't, it's not even risky for me to hang out with them. I just, I absolutely don't want to. Um, you know, I've got friends and stuff that's, that's still party and whatever, uh, too goddamn old for it, but they do what they do and that's fine. And I don't.

Bill (35:59.5)
Hahaha!

Mike (36:07.95)
care. But I'm certainly not going to go spend an afternoon with them because there's just no fucking point.

Yeah, no. So I mean, it's not risky. It's just fucking boring.

Bill (36:16.312)
Yeah, and I mean...

Bill (36:22.776)
Right, well and you said you kind of hit the nail on the head there and what we have talked about is that the whole thing with the spiritually fit thing, at least as far as what it says in the big book and what we were taught and I think what we live by is as long as we're someplace that we have a reason to be there. Being there for, we were always told be there, be there for the event not the party. You know, especially if it's at a bar or something like that. Like for instance, I wouldn't, I would have, I...

I would have no reason to go into a strip club these days, you know? And the thing of it is, it'd be like, I never got, strip clubs were fun to go into with a group of people. You know, I've been into plenty of strip clubs and we used to, Dawn and I used to go in with a group of friends. Dawn and I, my wife and I used to go to, and that was great, you know? But I'm not saying that I've never sat in a strip club by myself while I was drunk years ago.

Mike (36:57.068)
Right.

Mike (37:05.582)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (37:11.182)
Right, oh yeah, right.

Bill (37:21.048)
you know, and watch some chicks doing their thing, you know, I've done that. Okay, but these days I just wouldn't see the point. Now, casino almost, you know, was along those same lines. I don't know. I don't know that I would just go into a casino by myself, you know, it just wouldn't. I don't know. It's just I'm on that. The thing with is I used to go in there obviously and waste a lot of money in a casino. That's number one. And I still think I have that. I have that ism.

you know, when on the gambling side of things too. I think, you know, and I don't want to, I don't want to find out, you know, but I also used to go into casinos and drinking gamble, you know, but same thing, different, different story. We, you, me and Michael went in there. I went to a casino last year, a New Year's Eve with Kathy, things like that, you know, I'm fine with, but, you know, places I just don't need to be. I don't need to go when I was down in South Carolina, you know, I went to, I was trying to pick out a restaurant that I could go along the water and this and that.

Mike (38:02.158)
Great. Oh yeah.

Bill (38:20.312)
Had this place I went to, it would have been in the middle of the summer, on a summer night and shit like that, I probably would not have gone to that place. Just because it was like a big party bar with a restaurant. But they had decent food, it was a cool atmosphere, it was right on the water and stuff like that. But I don't just need to go into a place like that to eat if there's some big drinking party going on. I mean, there's other places I can go eat. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's kind of my...

Mike (38:33.23)
Mm -hmm, right.

Mike (38:46.03)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (38:49.87)
Well, totally.

Bill (38:50.04)
My rules, I guess, if you want to put it that way.

Mike (38:53.454)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, right. I mean, I go in, I'll go into a quote unquote dive bar. Um, if there's a band playing that I want to see, I will go and watch the band. Um, I'm not going into that same bar on a fucking Tuesday night with nothing's going on and just hanging out. What the fuck for it's boring. Yeah. It's, it's not something I want to do. It just doesn't interest me. It's not entertaining. It's sure as hell not going to make me feel good. So why the fuck would I do it?

Bill (39:10.008)
Right. Right.

Bill (39:22.36)
Right. Yeah. And even when I was, even when I was in Memphis, you know, the, the place that I sat in that blues bar where I had, uh, you know, I ate dinner there, you know, before it was before the, you know, the band was up and everything, but I knew that there was going to be a blues band at seven o 'clock and I got done eating and had probably 45 minutes until, you know, the band was going to come on. And, um, I just walked up and down Bourbon street and hung outside. It was beautiful. And I watched people walk by and.

Um, you know, I did, I went back in the bar. I sat by myself. I was there for about 40 to 45 minutes and I got that feeling that's like, yeah, you, you don't need to be here anymore. You know? Um, I, I didn't want to drink. I had no, no desires, no, no triggers. You know, it was literally, it was nothing like that. It was just that, that feeling and that knowledge that, you know, it's coming up on eight o 'clock. The place is filling up. I see more and more people ordering drinks.

Mike (39:58.798)
Yeah, right.

Mike (40:04.846)
Mm -mm. Right.

Bill (40:17.816)
I've seen enough the band was great. I had a wonderful fucking time and I left now. It's great, you know, so

Mike (40:25.102)
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. It gets to a point where it's, it's just not fucking entertaining anymore. Absolutely. And I've left places like that too. It's like, fuck man. Okay. You know, I saw what I wanted to see, got out of it, what I wanted to get out of it. And now I'm fucking going cause there's nothing here left for me. Yeah, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Why would I want to stay longer? And again, I didn't get sober to be fucking miserable. So I, I, I,

Bill (40:52.856)
Hahaha!

Mike (40:54.786)
practice these principles and all my fucking affairs. I'm not going to make myself miserable just because I think I have to stick it out or some bullshit. No, I got what I wanted. I'm done. Good night.

Bill (41:10.392)
Yeah. And you know, I mean, the thing with is, and it's kind of funny, I was just thinking about when, um, obviously when I was still drinking, I never cared about that, that point right there. Like you said, you know, this isn't entertaining anymore. I would stay there because I was drinking and figure it, you know, I'm just, I'm going to hang out. I'm just going to keep drinking and see what happens, you know, see if, you know, you're waiting for the moment to happen and you know, like, well, I can, well, I'm here. I'm just going to keep drinking anyhow. So, um, yeah, just, uh, what, uh, boy.

Mike (41:29.902)
right.

Bill (41:40.152)
We talked about that before. Freedom, not having dependence on anything anymore. And not just the booze, but the dependence on having to sit in a place like that, like you said, where you're not having fun, this is not entertaining, but the only reason you're sticking around is because you're waiting for something to fill your boring existence. Which is, I mean, literally what it comes down to. Yeah.

Mike (41:59.948)
Mm -hmm. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Right. And I don't have that hole to fill anymore. So I, again, got what I needed and I'm good going home.

Bill (42:20.76)
I agree. I agree. So, all right, I think I've got one more here. I think I'm just gonna do one more, because this delay, and I'll be honest with everyone out there, it's kind of irritating me. So we're gonna do one more and then we're gonna be done before one of us blows a fucking fuse because of technology. All right, so, this is probably a good one now that I see it.

Mike (42:35.854)
Yeah, no shit.

Mike (42:45.314)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (42:50.776)
Is your worst day now better than your best day when you were drinking? Obviously a saying that people talk about all the time. So you always hear people when they're talking in their leads in most cases, but you're like, oh, my worst day now is better than my best day when I was drinking. Do you agree with that, disagree with that, or have any opinion on that?

Mike (43:12.686)
That's fucking bullshit.

Bill (43:14.84)
Hahaha!

Mike (43:16.598)
I had some fucking wonderful times when I was getting loaded, you know, yes, of course I had miserable times too. Um, no, no, my worst day today is not better than my best day when I was getting loaded. No, absolutely not. That's bullshit. Um, am I, but, but deep down in my, I know what the hell they're saying because deep down in my core.

Bill (43:34.168)
Ha ha ha ha!

Mike (43:43.342)
Yes, I deal with things better. My life in general is better. Of course, this is a better way to live. But so I understand the sentiment of the statement, but the statement itself is pure bullshit.

Bill (43:58.328)
Right. Yeah. And I mean, that's actually what you were, um, when you said the sentiment of the statement, I mean, that kind of book, this is inadvertently, we just wrapped everything together in a, in a nice little bow for the podcast because that's how the reading started because of all the divine stuff. Right. But I mean, same deal. I know exactly what people are talking about. Um, but I've always thought it's just one of those things in my head when people say it, I'm just kind of like, uh, I had a lot of fucking fun, you know? I mean, be.

Mike (44:14.606)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (44:27.148)
Hehehehehe

Bill (44:28.792)
Before things got, you know, and granted there's always the point and I don't know when I crossed the point. I mean, I know when it was bad, but I don't know when everything was bad or everything got bad. Um, but we talked about it and I, I, I liked the fact that, um, I don't know, I, I was almost going to say, hate that's the wrong way to put it. I don't like listening to podcasts, listening to stories, listening to leads where people act as if they never had a good time when I were drinking. Cause that's fucking ridiculous, you know?

And I don't think it's honest. I don't think it's being true, you know, to their recovery. I don't think it's being true, you know, to people out there. I think it makes other people that are newly sober. And I don't want to use the word shame because I hate that fucking buzzword these days too. But I think it makes newly sober people feel uncomfortable if they're looking back and they're like, you know what, I had a lot of fucking fun, but it just shit went bad. Shit went off the rails. Ooh, another one about rails back to the rails. Um,

Mike (44:58.478)
Mm -hmm, of course.

Mike (45:25.934)
Vvvvv

Bill (45:28.728)
But I do, I think it makes people just sit back and possibly even doubt themselves. Maybe I shouldn't feel like that. So anyone that's listening to us, you know what? Again, we're gonna keep it real, yo. And tell you that it's okay. It's okay to look back and say that yeah, I had a really fucking good time. I had a great time at this time. I had a fun time. Yes, I was drinking and yes, I was drunk and blah, blah, blah. But.

Mike (45:42.702)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (45:55.87)
shit got bad and that's why I'm sobered out. There's nothing wrong with that. You could recognize those different pieces of your drinking life and not be ashamed of it. At least that's our opinion, right?

Mike (46:06.382)
Right. Huh. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Bill (46:08.28)
Yeah, there we go. Yeah, so I think I went off on a little bit of a rant there. Both of us did, so I like that. Thank you. All right, so but seriously, and although we both kept our composure through this time frame, this delay is, I know it's irritating me, and I'm sure it's irritating the fuck out of you too, Mike. And I'm hoping that all this little talk about the delay, people are going be like, it sounded fine.

Mike (46:15.662)
Nice.

Mike (46:30.83)
Yes it is.

Bill (46:36.664)
I hope everything pieces together, but at this point we're fucking done. Done dealing with it. So Mike, it's your turn.

Mike (46:42.958)
Hmm. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature, even though it was a little screwy. Hey, when isn't it? All right. So, uh, go out there, do something nice for somebody this week, be kind to each other, be good to each other. And you know what? It's fucking time. It's time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.

Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (47:22.044)
Your volumes were spiking on that one. I like that. I like that. You put a little bit more oomph in it again. So yeah, it's all good. But yeah, I don't know. So I know what the picture is going to be. You'll do the title. We'll see what that comes out to be. But hey, you know what? It's season five. Welcome to the shit show once again. And we appreciate you guys hanging out for maybe another 52 episodes.

Mike (47:27.406)
Nice.

Mike (47:42.252)
Hehehehehe

Bill (47:49.144)
dealing with this fun technology bullshit that we have to deal with. So, all right. That about wraps it up.

Mike (47:54.734)
Thanks AT &T.

Bill (47:57.02)
Yeah, fuck you, whoever's fucking up our podcast. All right, man. I love you, brother, and I'll talk to you later.

Mike (48:01.838)
Hehehehehe

Love you too. Bye.

Bill (48:09.304)
Bye.