SoberNotMature - Episode 107 (Willing To Support Our Will)

Bill (00:03.338)
Alright, I was just thinking I might as well talk through this. I doubt very seriously I'm gonna edit this anyhow, so Why the hell can't I? Oh, there we go. Pause upload. Boom. Hello everyone. We're doing a technical update here Check one two I'm gonna pause mine also. Let's see pause pause. Yeah, look at that shit Hold on. Okay All right, is everyone still there?

Mike (00:08.758)
Hmm

Mike (00:12.846)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (00:17.974)
Check one two, sibilance, sibilance.

Mike (00:31.674)
Yeah, I am. I don't know about anybody else.

Bill (00:33.486)
I know. I know. All right. So, yeah, are you ready yet? Well, all right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of sober, not mature. And yeah, we had a obviously everyone knows over the last couple of weeks we had a delay problem, right. And and it was I think I'm pretty proud of both of us for, you know, kind of holding our composure because

Mike (00:38.537)
Heheheheh, no.

Mike (00:53.59)
Delay, delay, delay.

Mike (01:01.77)
Hehehehehehe

Bill (01:02.282)
We're pretty good at it, but I'll tell you one thing, man, it was pissing me the fuck off. And I wasn't mad at anything in particular, but as much as we kind of just go with the flow with this thing and blah, it's really hard to have a conversation when the other person can't hear you right away. And the whole point of us spending $200 plus a year on this software is to be able to not deal with that shit.

Mike (01:06.84)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:19.968)
Right.

Mike (01:25.258)
Mmm.

Mike (01:30.206)
Right. Exactly. Yeah. You know, we w we want to turn this shit on and talk to you people.

Bill (01:35.818)
Yeah, and talk to each other. That's the whole point. If you wanna hear what we're talking about, why we made the switch, listen to episode, anywhere from episode three until episode 22, and you'll get really frustrated because that's why we switched. Because the audio was fucked up, but we were on our phones, so it was what it was. So anyhow, so hopefully all said and done, this is gonna sound better, but before we get on with your reading, I have.

Mike (01:50.987)
Right, yes.

Mike (01:56.898)
Uh huh.

Mike (02:03.529)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (02:04.274)
I want to bring up a birthday wish from you and I to this particular thing. Are you ready for the birthday wish? Happy birthday, happy 150th birthday to the jockstrap. So I'm listening to the radio, my morning show this morning I listened to and there was the teaser. It's like happy birthday jockstrap. I'm like, or no, something is how old? And I'm like, wait a second, what? So I'm listening to it.

Mike (02:09.889)
Sure, why not.

Mike (02:17.053)
Oh, Jesus Christ.

Bill (02:32.798)
And yeah, the fucking jockstrap was invented 150 years ago. And I'm like, really? I'm like, I need to bring that up. So here's my question for you. Either when's the last time or have you ever worn a jockstrap? I mean, it's...

Mike (02:38.976)
Mmm.

Mike (02:48.394)
Uh, yeah, I like elementary school, uh, wrestling. I want to say fourth grade. Maybe. Yeah, we had to, um, yeah, you know, yes. Uh, I was, uh, supported athletically.

Bill (02:52.214)
Hehehehe

Bill (02:57.439)
Right.

Bill (03:05.314)
Yeah, if you can't be an athletics, be an athletic supporter. Thank you from the movie. That was from Greece, wasn't it? Or was that from Porky's? One of the two. But yeah, I was thinking about it too because they were joking on the radio that one of the guys said, he goes, he goes, I don't think I've worn a jockstrap since the 70s, but I know I wore one in high school. I played soccer and ran track and stuff like that, but I don't think it was all the time. You know, football.

Mike (03:08.906)
That's right.

Mike (03:13.426)
Psh. I, I don't know.

Mike (03:24.63)
Mmm.

Mike (03:30.546)
I mean, you know, I've, I've had some harnesses down there, but that's a whole nother story. Hi ladies.

Bill (03:36.603)
Wait a second, note to self, what the fuck? But yeah, I just thought that was kind of funny. I'm like, okay, so in 1874, all the, I mean, really think about this, that the biggest problem they had, I mean, it wasn't food or getting killed by wild animals or getting shot by somebody. It was, hey, I want to holster my dick. You know, it was kind of what?

Mike (03:46.743)
Hey.

Mike (03:53.346)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (03:57.962)
Right. My chunks flapping around. I need. Wow. All right. Well, I mean the Civil War was over. So, you know, we had to figure something out to do.

Bill (04:04.606)
Right. I mean.

Bill (04:10.422)
Yeah, it just blew my mind because as I'm doing the bath bag, I'm like, really? Okay, so I'm tired, I'm hungry, I just got shot, and this bear almost ate me, but man, I could really use a piece of clothing to tighten up my nuts. You know, I mean, it just, I don't know. It would be just, did you have other things to think about? But anyhow, okay. Oh, and on top of that, it's, okay, this just seems wrong. And I posted, I know you posted on social media, but it's International Women's Day.

Mike (04:19.229)
Hehe

Mike (04:25.731)
Hehe

Mike (04:34.13)
Mm? Heh, ho, yes!

Bill (04:39.05)
So it's the fucking jockstrap's birthday. And then didn't some motherfucker take a look and be like, okay, what are the things are being celebrated on this date? So let's throw International Women's Day in to celebrate these fine ladies out there, all of our listeners and our friends and our family members. Again, we love all of you, but yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that it's also when the jockstrap was invented. So there's that, but okay.

Mike (04:39.571)
It is.

Mike (04:57.454)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (05:06.226)
All right. Okay. Wow. You know, I'm glad you feel better now. Yes, I am ready.

Bill (05:07.39)
Alright, so are you ready to do your reading yet? I had to get that part out, but you ready to do your reading yet?

Bill (05:18.347)
I do. I feel really good.

Mike (05:21.776)
Are you supported? Is everything nestled? Okay.

Bill (05:23.662)
I am. I am. Every you know what hang on. Yep, it's all good.

Hehehehe

Mike (05:33.064)
Alright, well I'm wearing sweatpants and that's it. So there you go. I am not supported.

Bill (05:37.683)
Ha ha

Mike (05:43.315)
All right, one, two, three. All right, sobriety. Yes, the reading for today. This is from God grant me. Oh, good Lord. I need to, I need a, I need some sherbert or something to cleanse my palette. Maybe this will work. This is actually today's. I read that.

this morning and went that's a pretty damn good one. I think I will do it tonight. So here we go. March 8th, the spiritual life does not remove us from the world, but leads us deeper into it. Henry J. M. Newin. He was a Dutch priest and professor and philosopher. I had time to look them up. All right. We get into recovery to get our life back.

We, the shame that is often part of our addiction can have us believe that we are second-class citizens. We are not recovery demands that we go deeper and deeper into the world. By moving deeper into the world, we deepen our relationship with our higher power. We are giving the gifts of recovery, freedom, care, and love. And, and we are to take these gifts out into the world.

The world needs them just as we need recovery. We who were hopeless must bring hope to those who need it. We who lived in despair must now bring joy into the larger world. We who lived in shame must now bring dignity to those who seek direction. This is the way of the spirit. We are now givers, not takers. Prayer for the day.

Higher power helped me to stay on the path of the spirit, helped me to go deeper and deeper into your world. Today's action, those pesky actions. Today I will list five ways I can give more to the world that I live in. I will then start to act in a way that will make me a giver and not a taker.

Bill (07:55.84)
Nice. And

Mike (07:58.109)
Right?

Yes.

Mike (08:08.44)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (08:20.434)
everything it had in there. I'm like, I wonder if this is one of the ones that you have saved. And yeah, sure as shit, ended up reading it. So that's a good one. I mean, it was, it was a, oh, I know what I meant to tell you. Kind of quick side note. The 24 hour book, it was Monday or Tuesday. It was one of the days this week. It was one of those readings that had, and again, the 24 hour book we've talked about, it has a lot of God stuff in it, you know, God, the literal God words in it. I, I finally ended up counting. It was like 15. And I'm like, and this is this,

Mike (08:20.635)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (08:24.982)
Hmm. Right.

Mike (08:42.669)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (08:48.866)
Wow.

Bill (08:49.93)
this short little paragraph, I think a 12 or 12 or 13 or 15, it was a lot. And I'm like, Oh my, again, Oh my God, you know, but, um, it was, it was crazy. It was a lot, but, um, so yeah. And, you know, it's talking about obviously to begin with the, the spiritual world and, you know, um, leading us, leading, it leads us deeper into it. I like that part. Um, second-class citizen, I wrote down gifts, uh, out into the world now.

Mike (08:55.294)
Mm-hmm. Oh my God.

Mike (09:12.016)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (09:15.974)
And then it's talking about the things we do now, bringing hope, bringing joy, bringing dignity. And then give or not take, or was the last thing I wrote down. So the thing with it is now back to the whole, like the whole spiritual thing, and we've talked enough about the religion and all those sort of things. And I don't know, it just reminded me of when people say that when they talk about the spiritual part of the program, Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, I mean, do you agree that it's...

Mike (09:22.582)
You know what I mean? Mmhmm.

Mike (09:33.646)
Hmm.

Mike (09:43.039)
Hmm.

Bill (09:44.678)
It is spiritual, that's what it is, right? There's no like spiritual part.

Mike (09:49.93)
Right. Oh yeah. You know, yes, it is. And whatever your definition, just like your definition of a power greater than yourself, higher power or whatever. Yeah. Whatever your definition of spiritual is, you know, again, that, that kind of, we've all had it, that indefinable feeling, you know, deep down inside of us, whatever the hell it is, we felt it, whatever it is, it's something that, you know, is good.

We can, we can all agree on that. We've all felt that whatever it is, that feeling in us, that's good. That, that, you know, makes us feel good. Um, it's in there somewhere. I don't know. I, I don't have really the words for it. I don't really have the, I don't know, man. It's something there's something there.

Bill (10:41.601)
No, and I know it's it is funny every once in a while I do the same thing when we're talking through some of these some of these things the fact that we both understand what we're saying but sometimes it's impossible to put it in words you know. But yeah it just I remember that.

Mike (10:51.076)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

And that, I think that's kind of a good thing. Um, sometimes, you know, that is that, you know, for lack of a better word, mystical thing, it is, it's a mystery, it's, it is undefinable. We're not supposed to be able to nail it down and define it. If we could, then it would be something else. It would be science or it would be a text or it would be, you know, whatever a table. Um, you know, it is, it's, it's that.

Bill (11:15.519)
Hahaha

Mike (11:24.486)
Undefinable thing that debt is bigger than us. Yeah.

Bill (11:28.682)
Right. Yeah, it just, I don't know, I just said, I remember it just popped into my head that people used to always talk about that, you know, that the spiritual part of, you know, alcoholics, anonymous, and like, it's all that way, kind of, you know, so, yeah, it just, and well, that's the thing that you and I talked about specifically over the last, you know, few weeks and, you know, to begin with in earlier episodes was the fact that, you know, how we're either one of us, even though we're both on slightly different levels, you know, when it comes to the

Mike (11:39.534)
Mm-hmm. It is.

Mike (11:56.622)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (11:57.506)
to the God thing, you know, we're very close, but also, you know, just a little bit on different levels, but trying to figure out how are we gonna deal with this, with this thing being a God based thing, you know, which I mean, again, thank God it's not. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Mike (11:59.607)
Right?

Mike (12:03.264)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:08.755)
Right.

Mike (12:12.494)
It exactly, exactly. Yeah, it isn't. Hey, it can be. And if it is for you, cool, whatever. But yeah, but it doesn't. It's it isn't though. It is. It's spiritual thinking again. The mystical, it's a mystery. It's something undefineable outside of ourselves. But yet at the same time in us fucking a man, I don't know.

Bill (12:35.49)
Right. Well, I mean, literally it just, it goes back to the same thing we talk about all the time. We have, it's the AA math, it's how does this work? It doesn't fucking matter, it just does. And, you know, we have neither one of us, you know, and it literally, I mean, we're, we're shying up on, you know, peeking around the corner at 14 years and neither one of us can write down, you know, exactly. If somebody said, tell me exactly how this works. Well, here's a book, you know, there's 12 things in there.

Mike (12:45.419)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (12:55.152)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:01.993)
Hm. Mm-hm.

Bill (13:03.106)
12 steps and 164 pages that you should read. Go to some meetings and do some things like that. But I can't draw you a fucking diagram on how this thing works. If you do all these things though, I'm gonna tell you it does. It just does.

Mike (13:16.406)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Well, again, well, yeah, it is in the book. It's a simple program of action. We have to do things, do things differently, do things that are not our natural way of doing things, because our natural way of doing things is to get loaded, be selfish and take. Yes. Right. This looked like it ended with, you know, we become givers and not takers. Um, that's how this thing works. You know? Yeah.

Bill (13:47.382)
So it also talked about second class citizens, which I mean, I think that's probably one of the nicest things. If somebody only called me a second class citizen when I was what I was, I think that's probably a compliment. Because I think.

Mike (13:51.295)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:04.125)
Right. Well, actually the quote is our addiction would have us believe that we're second-class citizens. Yeah.

Bill (14:10.594)
Oh, I gotcha, I gotcha. I missed that part. Yeah, that might have been why the dogs were barking like fucking crazy. And I'm sitting there trying to take notes and I was right towards the top and I opened the door and I think Cathy must've taken Moxie or something for a walk because I just screamed down there. I'm like, stop it. So I might've.

Mike (14:16.904)
Hehe

Mike (14:24.302)
Hmm. All right. So then you missed that part. Yes, our addiction would have us believe that we're second-class citizens. When then we're not, we're citizens, just like everybody else.

Bill (14:34.225)
Okay.

Right. Maybe not first class, but we're citizens.

Mike (14:44.587)
First class somethings, but yes.

Bill (14:46.818)
Right. And then the other thing, like I said, I wrote down about, and I believe it was talking about how we are now, we get the opportunity to bring hope, bring joy and bring dignity. And whether all the words and how the paragraph came together, I think just those things in general, you can you could relay that to, you know, to ourselves, you can talk about that to other people, to places that we that we are, you know.

Mike (14:54.253)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:57.945)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:02.862)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:06.475)
Right?

Mm.

Bill (15:12.35)
When we walk into a store, you know, we're not falling down drunk in a store. When we're hanging out with a family member, just when we are out there being who we are now, we could bring hope, joy, and dignity to ourselves and all the other things around us, which is pretty fucking cool.

Mike (15:21.665)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:27.854)
Right. Well, I mean, and it kind of, I mean, really the point of, of the reading that the way I took it was we give these things to other people again, that fucking AMS we give these things, we give hope and joy and dignity to other people. That's how we get it again. You know, that's how we get worth is we're worthwhile to other people, you know, cause we tried it the other, I know I fucking sure did.

I tried it the other way. I tried to be worthwhile to myself and not to anybody else. And that's how I got that second class citizenship. Yeah. I mean, that's the way I took it when I read it this morning and when I read it this evening. Yes, that's again, the AA math. If we give these things away and that's how we get them. Fucking A, man.

Bill (16:18.014)
Which is true. I mean every part of that is 100% true. And that's the whole thing. The last thing I wrote down was being a giver and not a taker. We've talked about that in plenty of different subjects and different stories and that sort of thing. But man, I don't know, even when it comes down to... We've talked about how you and I feel about birthdays and things like that. But the birthday is what it is.

Mike (16:26.741)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:40.887)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (16:45.314)
There's only one time a year that I expect a gift, and it's a specific one, because it's something that you and I have gotten now for however many years. It started for me at year two. Were you getting your coin? Did they get you a coin at year two, Mom and Kathy? Was it? Okay, I couldn't remember if it was, if you start getting them right away. Okay, so yeah, and just to kind of go back, if anyone...

Mike (16:50.166)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:56.01)
Right. Well, 13 times.

Mike (17:04.408)
Um, yeah, yeah.

Bill (17:13.254)
We'll talk about it next month anyhow when we get the coins. But yeah, our mom and our sister starting... Right. Yeah, that is true. They were not fronting. So the plan would be... or I'm sorry, not even plan. Correct. So up through last year, let's put it that way, on our anniversary our mom and our sister would get us these specialty coins. And I went through... Mike, you get a different one every year and they're always really, really cool looking.

Mike (17:16.322)
Right. If we get him.

Mike (17:24.874)
If we earn them.

Mike (17:31.159)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (17:41.618)
Always something a little bit different, very unique, but it's kind of like one of those ones you're like, however you feel that year is the type of coin you get. And I went and did, I found this one that I really liked and I did it from year two through year 10. And then I'm like, you know what? And then the frame that I had of it, because I had to have all my coins in a frame, was full-ish to the point where I didn't want to jam it all in. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to start a new frame.

Mike (17:41.634)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (17:49.687)
Right?

Mike (17:58.542)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:03.394)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Bill (18:09.522)
and I want to get a new style coin. So now my second frame is going to be all in has been, you know, all these new coins, you know, but it's, it is, it's not, and I say expect, you know, kind of in a joking way, but that's, that's a very meaningful, you know, and it's something that, you know, we were teasing Cathy when, when our mom died, we were like, well, I guess you got to foot the bill for both of them now. And she's like, I think I can afford it.

Mike (18:17.129)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:21.826)
8.

Oh yeah.

Mike (18:33.97)
Hehe

Bill (18:37.754)
they're not expensive. I don't know. They're what? 10, 12 bucks? Maybe 20 bucks or something like that? I mean, they're cheap, you know? But it is. They're meaningful. They're hugely, hugely meaningful. And I look forward to it every time. And, you know, Kathy always would pick out. Our sister Kathy would always pick out, always picks out a card. And the card's really nice. And the first, it was probably my first year anniversary. She got me a really nice card. And that's in the frame that I have my first set of coins in.

Mike (18:39.717)
Right. 20, I think. Yeah.

Mike (18:47.541)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:56.686)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:06.378)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Bill (19:07.866)
You know and just little things like that, but yes, she'll do it every year But yeah, I mean other than that I don't I don't really want for anything as far as gifts You know you know which is

Mike (19:15.986)
right, right. And, and, you know, and don't expect anything, right. And kind of including that, you know, I mean, it's, it's verging on me expecting it, but, um, yeah, I don't expect anything anymore, which is kind of nice. There's freedom in that too, kids.

Bill (19:21.344)
Right.

Bill (19:34.622)
Right? Yeah, there really is. And you know, not wanting anything in return. And you know, there's certain things like we, you know, we we've come to get used to or expect, you know, leave and take out the word expect. We've we've gotten used to the fact that, you know, we get those coins every year. I get used to the fact that on Father's Day and my birthday, my kids will they'll pay for my lunch. They don't have to. And I tell them, like, you don't have to get in. All I want is just hanging out with them. That's it.

Mike (19:40.01)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:47.18)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:57.39)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (20:02.634)
I don't care if I have to fucking pay for it. It's not a big deal, you know? I just wanna hang out with them. They're like, no, we'll, you know, we buy you lunch, so that's cool. But other than that, I mean, I don't, I never want anything for Christmas. If one of my kids or anyone gets me a little gift, it's usually one of those things where it's something that somebody came across, like your QR code shirt, you know? I don't know that Cathy normally gets you a birthday present, but you know, she came across and she.

Mike (20:10.734)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (20:23.18)
Right.

Mike (20:26.43)
No, no. I mean, she's, yeah, she's got me something, you know, a few things in the past, whatever, but yeah, it was, it was, it was a very pleasant surprise.

Bill (20:34.386)
Right, yeah. And just, you know, I mean, just out of the ordinary, those are the kind of things that I really appreciate because it's, somebody took the time and the thought and, you know, it's the little things. Everyone talks about that shit, you know, all the little things that matter, but you know what? It really is. I mean, everything, we talked about this before, gotta have a job, you gotta pay some bills, you gotta have some money, you gotta do this and that, but, you know, sometimes just going out and being on that fucking moon.

Mike (20:50.479)
Mm. Yeah.

Mike (20:58.615)
Uh-huh.

Mike (21:03.212)
Right.

Bill (21:03.746)
Thank you, Heidi. Does she realize how many times we actually reference her in here? I don't know. We should get her to somehow pay to advertise or something like that. We should charge her for all that now. But I don't know. I mean, all of it. Yeah, probably. Yeah, shit. I'm going to keep quiet. She'll never listen to this anyhow. Yeah. Don't anyone say anything to her.

Mike (21:09.282)
Yeah, probably not.

Mike (21:19.375)
Or she should charge us for the content. Right, exactly. We'll just keep that on the down low.

Bill (21:33.986)
But, no, I mean, that's the biggest thing. That kind of wraps up that whole reading, I mean, really nicely is just the, yeah, I mean, man, I can't even, we've talked about it, but I mean, the stories that probably both of us have not only shared, but have of all the things that we did. And, you know, like you said last week or the week before, you know, and that's the thing, you know, the term shooting angles, always looking for this, always looking for something. Even if it was something, you know, it just could be.

Mike (21:34.582)
Yes, yes, yes.

Mike (21:40.366)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (21:58.567)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (22:01.882)
If I was going someplace to help somebody, I expected something. What's in it for me type of thing. And to this day, you and I have been very honest about it. We don't want to do fucking anything for fucking anybody, fucking anytime. Okay. But, but we do. Right.

Mike (22:06.634)
Right.

Mike (22:16.922)
Nope. No, but right, but we do, right? And we get the fucking rewards such as they are. Yes, exactly. Yeah, but no, to this day, and I know to the day I fucking die, man, my first thought's gonna be fuck that shit. I don't wanna do that, but I do it anyway. Yep.

Bill (22:39.436)
Right.

Bill (22:42.73)
You know, that just reminded me of, do you like Seinfeld at all? Do you ever watch any of his standup or? Okay.

Mike (22:48.278)
Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, no, I, I thought you meant the show. Um, I don't think I've really done much of his, his stand up, but yeah, the TV show I watched.

Bill (22:52.456)
Yeah.

Bill (22:58.418)
Yeah, so it was probably it's been between, you know, I don't know, it could be, could have been two years ago, it could have been seven years ago, for all I know, but he did a like a stand up show not too long ago, relatively speaking, and, you know, just kind of get up there did his whole thing and but he was talking about aging, you know, because he's in his 60s. Now I think he's in his mid 60s. And he was talking about how beautiful it is to get old. And he said, he goes, the older I get, the less I'm required to do.

Mike (23:07.656)
Mm.

Mike (23:10.99)
Mm-hmm. Hehehe.

Mike (23:18.547)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mike (23:26.894)
Mm-hmm. Heh, heh, heh.

Bill (23:27.078)
And he said, because people don't expect me to do more. He goes, God, I'm looking forward to 70. He goes, I'm really looking forward to 80. He goes, you ever watch an 80 year old man in a party or in a house? And he goes, the guy gets up to go grab something, take out the garbage. He's like, oh, no, Grandpa. You don't have to just sit down here. Let me get you something to eat. And he goes, that's what I'm looking forward to.

Mike (23:36.721)
Hehehehehehehe

Mike (23:40.36)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mike (23:49.729)
Right.

Bill (23:54.602)
And I just started laughing because, you know, we're kind of at the age. I know my physical limitations these days. There's certain things that I know either I won't do because I may get hurt or I just can't do. I just maybe lose some of that physical strength or the balls to do some of these things these days. But I still have the ability to do things. But yeah, 60s and 70s, that's at the time. It's like, oh, let me take care of that for you. Thank you.

Mike (24:01.292)
Mmm.

Mike (24:06.238)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (24:11.979)
Right?

Mike (24:22.67)
Hehe

Bill (24:25.666)
But yeah, that's when we can graciously take things again and not feel bad about it, right?

Mike (24:31.442)
Okay. Yeah. Hopefully I'll be caught up from, you know, my twenties and thirties that I took fucking everything and yeah, expected people to do that for me in my twenties and thirties. Yeah. So hopefully I'll be caught up in the scales will be balanced. And by the time I'm 70 and I will actually be able to sit there on my ass and have somebody bring me something.

Bill (24:38.23)
Hehehe

Bill (24:45.568)
Right.

Bill (24:55.683)
Right. Get me a sandwich. Give me a sandwich and an iced tea. But no, I mean, I did. I like that reading and it was a good one. And, you know, same thing, like I said, when I read it this morning, I enjoyed it. But I'm glad you read that one. So anything else? Anything else about that one at all?

Mike (25:04.467)
Hehe

Mike (25:18.154)
Yeah, no, just, just the last line of the main body of it is we have to be givers and not takers that's that's. You know, that is one of the cruxes of this program is turning that shit around and that's, you know, for you new folks out there, or if you're not so new and, uh, whatever, that's one of the basic ones, man, you know, stop taking and start giving and.

For some goddamn reason, things get better for you.

Bill (25:48.382)
Right? Yeah, which we just said it man, who fucking knows why, but it just does. And, you know, this is, this is literally the only thing in my life that I don't question anymore, you know, and I did, you know, for that first year, nine months or whatever it was, but, um, everything else, everything, and I mean, everything in my life, I look for the why behind it. I want to know how it works. I want to know all these different things. That's my, that's my nature, you know, that's how I'm built.

Mike (25:53.858)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:59.966)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Mike (26:11.081)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (26:14.138)
But this is, I mean, and I say the only thing, it's a huge part of my life, but it's become such a simplistic part of my life because I don't question it, you know, if that makes any sense.

Mike (26:18.99)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (26:23.274)
Right. Yeah. And, and again, somehow it makes things easier.

Bill (26:28.542)
I know. Yeah, it does. So, um, and I didn't expect this to be a segue, but ladies and gentlemen, here's a segue. So we're talking about givers and takers and I want to talk a little bit about the, um, you know, the, the buy me a coffee, the donations, the, that sort of thing. Okay. But little different spin on it though. Okay. So, um, I was listening to a podcast and I really only have time to listen to a podcast usually on

Mike (26:35.971)
Mm. All right.

Mike (26:45.738)
All right. That was smooth.

Okay.

Bill (26:57.062)
Sometimes, you know, after I'm done on Fridays, but a lot of times on the weekends, I'll just kick back and have one on. It's one I listen to all the time. I like the podcast. I'm not gonna mention it, because I wanna get down on these individuals, but they also do the buy me a coffee and that sort of thing. And they've been promoting it, and they get a lot of activity out of it. They're bigger than us. They got more of a following base and all that sort of things. But one of them said, you know, they're doing all the thank yous and all this different stuff. And then one of them said,

Mike (27:01.326)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (27:13.142)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (27:25.45)
You know, that's the main reason that we're able to bring you this podcast. And that pissed me off because so, and I'm going to tell you why, and I don't, I don't care what their financial situation is. I kind of, you know, I know what the two of them do. They've talked about it and stuff like that, but that's irrelevant. Um, in my opinion, um, is if people want to donate to us, I mean, granted, we've been open about the fact that, Hey, you know, it might help us grow and things like that, but.

Mike (27:33.931)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (27:39.158)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (27:42.734)
Okay.

Mike (27:54.094)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (27:54.182)
It made me uncomfortable because I was thinking about if you or I said that, okay, so here's the thing, you know, the only way we can do this is if you give us money. And I'm like, we're not those people. And we're not like give or else, you know, or donate or else, you know.

Mike (28:00.782)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (28:05.934)
Mm-mm. Yeah, right. Yeah. Give us money or you can't listen to our dulcet tones anymore.

Bill (28:12.97)
Right, right. And it just, um, and that's why I wanted to talk about it. Cause I want to, and I, and I do, I post stuff on Instagram and it's about, do you want to support the podcast? And it has to buy me a coffee. It has the, do you want to buy merchandise or do the reviews and that sort of thing. So, um, for anyone that's listening to this, let, let's make this really, really simple. Um, we do not need your money. We don't. Okay. And literally in

Mike (28:22.35)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (28:35.938)
No, no, we would like a little of it, but we don't need it.

Bill (28:41.578)
Right, and here's the thing, Mike drives a truck, I'm a fucking bill collector, okay? Neither one of us are rich individuals. I was literally out of work for seven months. I didn't go broke, I've got some credit card debt now and I had the ability to do it, but here's the thing, he and I, my friend Mike over there on the other side, we chose to do this for ourselves. You guys are part of this and that's great. We came across these things where we can,

Mike (28:50.641)
Nope.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (28:58.748)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:03.435)
Hi there.

Mike (29:08.194)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (29:11.262)
you know, merchandise, do stuff, get some donations. That's all wonderful. But I did a quick like math in my head between Riverside, a couple hundred bucks, our pod or I'm sorry, our website, you know, our sobered aperture website, that's a couple hundred bucks a year. I think the, oh, I got to pay for like my cutting tool. That's like, that's less than a hundred. I mean, all said and done. I don't think, right.

Mike (29:36.598)
Make sure you put a jockstrap on that.

Bill (29:41.31)
I don't think we spend on a yearly basis, and I'm not even including the store website. That's a cost of about 50 or 60 bucks a month, but that really, I mean, it's a sideline to the podcast because all it is t-shirts and stuff like that. It's not podcasted up. So that cost goes over in column B. We spend maybe $500 a year to do this. Yeah, there's been some headphones and I bought a new computer, Mike bought a computer, whatever. Even add all that shit up over time. So that's what this thing costs us. Okay?

Mike (30:06.538)
Yeah.

Bill (30:11.05)
Little bit of time, some effort, not a big deal. But anyone out there, unless you're paying big guests and you're doing all these different things, you've spent thousands of dollars on equipment, if you did, it's your fucking choice. You do not need donations to run a podcast. You just fucking don't, okay? So here's what I would like everyone to do, and Mike and I have talked about this before. If you wanna donate, and I think Mike, I think he'll agree with me.

Mike (30:13.94)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (30:24.141)
Right?

Bill (30:39.954)
Any donations, if you donate anything to Buy Me a Coffee this entire year, we'll donate it to some charity. Okay, we don't want the, we don't need the money. That's number one. Number two, if you wanna buy merchandise, you're getting something for that. Our profit margin is ridiculously small and we lost money. We lost money at everything last year. We didn't make a dime on the store, anything like that. So if you wanna buy something, then buy it.

Mike (30:48.022)
Right. Mm-mm.

Mike (30:55.758)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:03.583)
We did.

Bill (31:08.746)
you know what you're spending on there, it's paying for the product plus a little bit of overhead but we're not making any money on that. But here's what you can do and I'm going to tell you the reason why again if you rate us, review us, we grow a little bit right? If we get more listeners then we're not at a point right now where we can actually attract any sort of advertisers other than what you guys hear ads on here actually the ads that are not ours they come from

Mike (31:09.826)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:23.278)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (31:38.154)
We literally get paid pennies and I'm talking about, you know, like one cent here, one cent there type of thing. But the reason that we include the ads is because that also we get spread out more if we have ads based in our podcast. Okay. But if we can grow a little bit more listeners, more plays, more this and that, then we can attract a sponsor. And then they can pay for everything.

Mike (31:39.138)
Right. Yep.

Mike (31:59.47)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right. Yeah. They can pay for the subscriptions for the website and, and for the Riverside and all that stuff. And we can stop spending our own money to share this lovely stuff with you, but we don't care either way. We will continue to do this because we like to do it. Yeah. Everybody needs a damn hobby.

Bill (32:13.79)
Yeah. Exactly.

Right, but that's the only thing. Help us grow. And even if we don't get a sponsor, help us grow because, let's go back to, let's wrap this all up. Give to somebody else. There's gotta be somebody out there. I know for a fucking fact, if you are listening to this, we've said it before. Mike said it, I said it. If you're getting something out of this, there is somebody you know that will get something out of it also. Give this shit away also. Give it away to somebody else. That's it, right?

Mike (32:29.973)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (32:46.698)
right. Yeah, gotta give it away to keep it. Yeah, share share. Yep. Stop being a taker and start being a giver. God damn it. Pay attention.

Bill (32:52.19)
Yeah.

Bill (32:59.458)
Right. But no, I just, seriously, when, and I will 100%, we've had, we haven't had any money donated on the, the buy me a coffee thing in a while, certainly not for this calendar year. But I, I 100% fucking promise if we get any money through buy me a coffee in it, whenever we donate, I'll do it at the end of the year. I could take a screenshot of any money that came through that year. We'll fucking prove that everything that we got, whether it's $17 or $1,700, we'll give it away to charity.

you know, because we're not looking for the money. We don't need it, but maybe somebody else does and we can help donate that way. So then we are giving away and not being takers anymore, right?

Mike (33:39.522)
Right.

Bill (33:40.246)
Are you still, oh shit, I thought it was like, are you still there? You paused a little bit or we're delayed. Are we delayed again?

Mike (33:45.45)
Yeah, no, we didn't. We're delaying because you were, you were delaying big time. Cause, uh, it's all through that speech. You were cutting out, which is how it starts. And then we get the separation.

Bill (33:52.707)
That's kind of weird.

Bill (34:00.138)
Yeah, and then you're starting to get a little bit of that thing too. Well, you know what? I don't know what the deal is with all this stuff. But why don't we do this? At this point, should we just take a break? Let this rest for a couple of seconds and then we'll get back at this. What do you think?

Mike (34:20.862)
Yeah. Pfft.

Bill (34:25.8)
Boy, it must be really bad. That was like four or five seconds.

Mike (34:31.147)
Uh, longer than that is about seven seconds.

Bill (34:36.678)
Okay, so yeah, take us into a break and then I'm gonna restart. We'll start up a new studio, okay?

Mike (34:47.95)
All right. Well, we'll be back with more nonsense right after this word from our sponsor.

Bill (00:01.805)
All right, everyone. Later that same evening. So let's see here. Yeah. I don't know how long was that? That was on our end. That wasn't that long. But yeah, fuck. Yeah, it just wow. I tell you. So on on my list and on Mike's list is to get a hold of our respective cable companies and let them do some diagnostic shit.

Mike (00:06.702)
Hehehehehe

Mike (00:15.694)
Yeah, 10 minutes or so.

Bill (00:29.325)
and figure out what the fucking problem is and say, you know what? After everything we just preached about literally saying, we gotta get this out to more people. Yeah, get this fucking garbage out to more people. Yeah, go ahead. Tell your friends. You wanna hear a couple of old fucks that can barely, that's what we sound like. It's like you're.

Mike (00:29.42)
Uh -huh.

Mike (00:34.83)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (00:40.046)
Thanks.

Mike (00:47.63)
What? What's it, what are you going to, what?

Bill (00:52.237)
I didn't hear you. Did you say something? Hey, you're delayed again. What? Oh fuck it. So you know what? I don't know. We got a fresh brand new studio. This is studio 107 .1. Sound like a goddamn or dash one. Like a radio station, but anyhow. So I guess what I was bitching out before was yeah, tell a friend. Tell a friend to listen to this fucking shit stuff. Yeah, that's what it was, but.

Mike (00:57.998)
MEH!

Mike (01:09.102)
Right. Exactly.

Mike (01:17.006)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Bill (01:21.997)
Okay, exactly. So you want to hear something fun? You know, you know our friend Gary that we had on an episode. God, I can never remember what episode Gary was, but Gary sent us an email the other day. And for anyone who doesn't know, actually, maybe while I'm reading this, take it, can you pop on your phone and take a look at what, if you can look back at what episode it was? Because I wouldn't mind promoting him. He's a good dude. So Gary's, he,

Mike (01:22.158)
Hehehehe

Mike (01:36.684)
Alright.

Bill (01:51.533)
He's the individual that reached out to us randomly. We didn't know who he was and wanted to be on the podcast. We had him on. He was a great guest. He actually shares his episode with new people that he sponsors and stuff like that. Plus he keeps in touch with us every once in a while. And he's a good dude and we consider him a friend. So Gary sent an email the other day and he's like, hey guys, what is up that Mike didn't close the last podcast?

It was like a meeting where you did not close with the Lord's Prayer. I need Mike to tell me to... I need Mike to tell me to fuck off, then keep fucking off, keep fucking off until you get to a gate that says you cannot fuck off past here. And he reads the whole thing. He goes, I always say it out loud with Mike as I listen. And then in parentheses he puts, I was going to say that keeps me sober, but that's not true. It does help though. Yeah. But...

Mike (02:19.662)
Mmm.

Mike (02:23.822)
Hehehehehe

Mike (02:33.484)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (02:43.15)
That's all I could ask for helps a little bit and Gary was at episode eighty one.

Bill (02:51.117)
Okay, yeah, everyone, please go back and listen to Gary's episode. Episode 81, he was great. He's a good dude. And like I say, he is what our definition of a, you know, I mean, besides some of our friends and stuff like that, but you know what? Our close friends don't listen as much as Gary does. So, you know what? Fuck our close friends and thank you, Gary. Yeah.

Mike (03:05.422)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was from September 23rd. If anybody cares. Yeah.

Bill (03:13.933)
Okay. And then, um, then he goes on to say, he goes, I do know you had audio delay issues, but I was disappointed when he didn't do the clothes. Um, he said, the other thing is you now have ads. Uh, now they started showing up on the podcast or two podcasts ago. He said short ad at the beginning, then one during the break. He goes, I hope you're getting some revenue from them. Well, Gary, we just explained that previously, but, but then he's like, uh, he goes, please don't take this as bitching, just feedback. Still love you guys. A loyal listener and friend.

signed Gary. So I emailed, yeah, thank you. I emailed him back and I said, I asked him what platform he was listening on, because I listened on Spotify and it was there. And then he said Apple, Apple podcasts. And I'm like, fuck, I mean, that's where majority of people listen. So I went into Apple podcasts and popped through and I could hear where the ads fell. I didn't listen all the way through on there, but it came through. It played fine, you know, for that. So.

Mike (03:45.038)
Yeah, thank you, Gary.

Mike (03:51.662)
Mm -hmm, right.

Mike (03:59.854)
Right.

Mike (04:06.222)
Mm -hmm.

Huh, yeah. I mean, I know I did it.

Bill (04:12.205)
Oh, I know. And literally, I had to go back on Spotify. I'm like, there's no fucking way that we forgot it, did we? Did we forget? And like, no, I mean, I know, I know we didn't. But so anyhow, Gary, we appreciate everything you said. But it's possible. Do you have narcolepsy? Did you fall asleep there for a second? I don't know. But what I told them was I'm like, we submit our episodes now in one audio chunk. That's number one. But I mean, unless somehow it got.

Mike (04:17.358)
Mm -mm. No.

Mike (04:35.31)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (04:39.093)
unless they censored it because I'm like, fuck is Apple censoring our podcast now? But only other thing I could figure is if they dropped an ad or something like that and there was a space and then he missed it, you know, towards the end, I don't know, either way. But it was anyhow, it was nice to hear from our friend Gary. So, Gary, yeah, thank you as always. Thanks for listening. You know, we do appreciate it. And again, episode 81, right, Mike? Okay, cool.

Mike (04:51.118)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (04:55.502)
It was.

Bill (05:05.805)
Alright, so that was a positive from the bitching that I did back to a positive. Alright, so here's a short one. Were you a, and I'll tell you, I sorta know where this came from. Oh yeah, it was from a podcast. Were you a puker when you were still drinking? Did you throw up a lot or did you just not?

Mike (05:08.846)
Yeah.

Mike (05:26.926)
No, not much, no.

Bill (05:29.453)
You know, it was kind of funny because the, again, a podcast I was listening to, the individual said they had like stomach flu or something like that. First time they had thrown up since they've been sober, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I know for a fact, I haven't thrown up since I've been sober, but in my early, early days, you know, high school, college, all that sort of stuff, you know, I don't know if I was going to say before, I kind of knew how much I could drink, but I guess sort of, you know.

Mike (05:40.046)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (05:48.046)
Mm -hmm. Mm.

Mike (05:55.854)
Uh huh.

Bill (05:57.805)
I mean, because I guess we all get to that point, even us, you know, raging alcoholics. I mean, you realize how much you could throw down the, you know, throw down the gullet before it's just going to come flying back up on you, I would think, right?

Mike (06:07.31)
Right. Yeah. Right. Don't want to waste it. It's alcohol abuse.

Bill (06:11.445)
That's a good point. I've known people over the years that might have been even in college or at that time that people that would actually drink to extreme excess and then have to throw up so they could drink more.

Mike (06:24.59)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right. Oh yeah. That, that never made any sense to me. Right. I, yeah. Exactly. I'm going to throw up so I could drink more. We'll just fucking keep it in you, man. And then drink more. Amateurs.

Bill (06:36.173)
Right. Right. Well, and that's the thing that I if I ever did, you know, throw up from and first of all, if anyone's eating breakfast right now, fucking sorry. Sorry. Just. Yeah, I would say don't don't do anything, anything other than just listen. Who is that? Oh, yeah, Daphne was trying to grocery shop while she was listening to us and forgot what she was buying or, you know, just don't.

Mike (06:47.854)
Great. Yeah, that'll, that'll teach you. Don't eat when you, when you listen to this, come on. She's no better.

Mike (06:59.534)
Yeah.

Mike (07:04.334)
Hehehehehe

Bill (07:06.061)
Don't drive, don't eat, don't do anything. Just listen to us. It certainly don't, yeah, who is that? Chris was listening to it openly at work, right? Finally the, didn't the?

Mike (07:09.23)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (07:15.886)
Uh, some of our coworkers were, yeah. When she was back at the animal hospital. Yeah.

Bill (07:18.315)
Yeah.

Bill (07:22.149)
And finally they're like, yeah, you can't play that out loud. Exactly. But you know what? If you happen to be in church right now, play it in church. Yeah.

Mike (07:24.654)
Nah, nah, nah. That's not safe for work.

Yeah, right. Very loud. As loud as you possibly can. Bring a Bluetooth speaker with you. The biggest one you can find. You know, one of those party ones for your backyard. That kind of thing. Yeah, wheel it in there and crank it up.

Bill (07:37.229)
Right.

Bill (07:45.645)
Yeah, and just hide it in one of the pews and let the folks try to run and find it. But yeah, so I was thinking about that and I wasn't that type of person. Again, except for really early times. Yeah, college was a big one because we used to sit, I mean, of course college, we were drinking to excess. And then it got to the point where there was a, on our, I don't know if it was just our floor, but on our dorm room floor,

Mike (07:58.604)
Right.

Bill (08:13.261)
in the in the RA's room there was a chart they called it the the blow chunks chart and it was if anyone like a roommate or somebody got sick you had to go and write there's all these different columns when where what did they drink yeah oh it was just so stupid you know

Mike (08:17.998)
Hmm. God. More examples of the worthlessness of higher education.

Bill (08:32.077)
Exactly. Yeah, that was the chart on that. But I don't know, it was just when they were talking about it, I'm like, God, I don't think we've ever talked about that. But I was thinking more about the people that, like I said, threw up and tried to drink more because that just never made any sense to me. I'd be down for the count if I ever got sick to begin with. But yeah, like you said, keep it in, right?

Mike (08:52.686)
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You feel like you're going to get a little sick. Just, you know, stop, settle down for a little bit and you know, it'll pass and then you can drink some more.

Bill (08:58.037)
alcohol abuse.

Bill (09:04.109)
I like that. I can just see you too as a fucking raging drunk just sitting down going, okay, I'm gonna sit down for a minute. I'm gonna grab some water. I'm gonna ease this out for a couple of minutes. Calm the fuck down, dude. I got more drinking to do.

Mike (09:13.166)
Cheers!

Mike (09:17.378)
No water. Just just calm yourself down. Right. That's right. Ride that wave of nausea.

Bill (09:28.269)
Right. So the other thing is, and I know you've probably never heard or never saw the show, there's a show on Netflix called Louder Milk. So...

Mike (09:40.27)
Ah, yes, I have not seen it. I really want to.

Bill (09:44.717)
Okay, because it's Peter from Correct. So great character and he's a grumpy motherfucker and all that stuff. And as him and his character, I enjoy it. But the only thing that I actually just finished the series, I would watch it while I was eating dinner and stuff like that. So, know, bits and pieces and it's been over the last few months. And I don't remember if I saw it first on Netflix or after.

Mike (09:47.182)
from office space, right? Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:04.782)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (10:11.821)
The Sober Curator did a review on it, because they'll do a review on any type of movie shows that have recovery and I'm like that. So visit The Sober Curator, by the way. Plug, plug. But so, yeah, I started watching it and I do, I like him, I like his character and he's grumpy as fuck and whatever and it's just all this different stuff. But here's the thing that, and I was hoping that this show wouldn't do it, but the...

Mike (10:19.958)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:24.334)
Right. Plug, plug.

Mike (10:32.342)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (10:38.605)
The thing that I don't like about a lot of these shows, and there's a ton of them, or movies, is everyone relapses all the fucking time. It gets to be, I don't know, whatever it is, life and triggers and this and everyone gets, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Because it'll get to the point where the person's sitting in a bar, give me this, and I'm like, no, just don't fucking do it. And then a person downs a shot, I'm like, motherfucker.

Mike (10:42.936)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:47.054)
Right, right.

Mike (10:53.07)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (11:07.053)
It just, it pisses me off every time. So here was the, here was like the bad example, the one of the characters in this guy's, you know, I mean, clearly as they're going through and they do, they have this whole group, you know, they do group and stuff like that. And the guy that from Office Space, Loudermilk is his name. He's the one that leads the group and you know, all these different people and whatever. So this one guy, you know, he's had his ups and downs, you know, throughout the series.

Mike (11:07.086)
Hmm.

Mike (11:24.686)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (11:33.517)
and he finally, you know, kind of got had alienated his kids and he's got a whole fucking gaggle of kids. I mean, like 10, you know. That was we might we might just close out now. That was I don't know if I can top that. But but yeah, so I mean, yeah, just this whole fucking gaggle of kids. But.

Mike (11:41.038)
Yeah, you went for fun once in a while.

Mike (11:51.82)
Hehehehehe

Bill (11:58.773)
You know, he's at this point now where he's got his kids back and you see him and he's got a daughter that's, I'm guessing probably mid -20s or something like that. You know, so he's getting together with her, he's back in her life and he gets invited to this work event with her. So he goes and the biggest thing that when he first shows up, he's trying too hard. He's trying to make a lot of dad jokes and making this and that and like some of her friends, you know, these work friends and she's new there, just kind of looking at her, kind of funny and then she just, oh, let's go grab, you know, if you.

Mike (12:05.772)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (12:28.589)
grab you water or something like that. So he walks up there by the bar, he grabs a club soda or whatever it is. And she's like, you know, don't try so hard to settle down. He's like, really? This is half of a lot. So they go back and they're sitting down and one of them says something kind of as a joke and you can see the look on his face that hit him wrong. So he, he goes, you know, excuse, excuses himself, walks up to the bar. He goes, let me, you know, I need another club soda. He's like, you know what? No. He goes, give me a vodka and make it a double. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? So I'm like, get all you.

Mike (12:54.702)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (12:56.941)
All these things, all these promises are happening to this motherfucker after all these ups and downs. And he does, he takes it, goes in the bathroom, drinks it, drinks like four or five, six of them, ends up passed out puking in the bathroom in the stall. And she's gotta take him out, call the next day. She doesn't want anything to do with him, all this different stuff. And I'm just like, I'm just like, ah, I hate it. I don't like, it seems like that nobody realizes how to make a show about somebody who.

actually stay sober, you know? It just bugs me. So.

Mike (13:27.662)
Hmm. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, they, they got, uh, it's the fucking drama, you know, if, yeah, it's probably wouldn't be all that entertaining. If everybody stays sober, gets happy, gets their life together and, and, you know, moves on. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, we might want to see it, but I don't know if, uh, all the normies out there want to see it. They want to see us suffer, man.

Bill (13:44.109)
Right.

Bill (13:54.573)
No, and that's true. That's true. And for anyone who just listened about that little bit of a rant about that for me is that I highly recommend the show. It's funny. It's entertaining. I really enjoyed it. It does have some depth to it, you know, and not death, depth, depth. It's got some substance to it. Let's use that word because I can't seem to say depth. But, but no, I highly recommend it. It's a good show. I just that little part and I thought about it.

Mike (14:10.158)
Mm -hmm. Depth.

Mike (14:15.566)
Mm -hmm. All right.

Bill (14:23.211)
Every time I watch a movie like that, it's just the same thing. I'm just waiting for whatever the thing is. I'm waiting for the guy, waiting for the lady to just get to this point and then be like, okay, yep, they're gonna do what everyone thought they're gonna do. They're gonna take the fucking drink. And I'm like, ah, damn it. But yeah, you're right. I mean, it probably wouldn't be, it's just like anything else. It's like the news, you know? Good news is not what, you know.

Mike (14:38.638)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Mike (14:47.342)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (14:50.763)
sells newspapers quote unquote or sells time or you know it doesn't get internet clicks or anything like that so yeah.

Mike (14:53.166)
Right. Mm -hmm.

Exactly. Yeah. People want to see tragedy and despair.

Bill (15:01.165)
Right. Well, and even with in the one I thought about, because I'm trying, I was trying to think of movies that, you know, really where somebody did stay sober throughout. And then I remember in clean and sober with what's his face, Michael Keaton. Didn't you have to watch that in California for your first run?

Mike (15:15.79)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, I did. Yep. Yeah, long time ago. Yep. Yeah, Michael Keaton and Morgan Freeman.

Bill (15:24.749)
Oh God, I forgot Morgan Freeman was in that, holy shit. But.

Mike (15:27.054)
Yeah. It's like his sponsor counselor, dude, whatever. It's been a long time since I've seen it.

Bill (15:31.437)
God, why? Yeah, and then, I mean, the chick's dealing with, you know, obviously some shit with whatever, but, you know, a lot of stuff, but I mean, and I think the whole movie is like, you know, 30 days, his first 30 days or whatever it is, if I remember correctly, but yeah, I mean, there's, so he ends up staying sober as far as we know, you know, past that, but there's all the other tragedy in it. But really, I mean, I suppose, I mean, there's not really movies out there that are just, yeah, the drunk, you know, gets everything.

Mike (15:42.126)
Yeah, right.

Mike (15:49.366)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:00.013)
gets everything back, gets his or her light back in order and things are just hunky dory and you know that's 23 minutes into the movie and they're like okay we got nothing else let's add some let's add some fucking drama. But no seriously it's uh watch it it's on do you have Netflix? Oh okay it's yeah you might not have to dig into that dig into that through the spider webs in your wallet and pay for Netflix but uh it's

Mike (16:05.196)
Hehehehehe

Mike (16:11.564)
All right, exactly.

Mike (16:26.126)
Mmm.

Bill (16:28.973)
I do recommend it. I think you'll enjoy it. His character is you. You will relate to his character. He's grumpy as fuck and you know, all this, you know, so yeah. Well, you're grumpy as fuck. I don't think there's I don't think there's anything I'm trying to say. I mean, is was. Yeah.

Mike (16:35.79)
Right, what are you trying to say?

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Chris, Chris found it, uh, I don't know, a few months ago and she told me about it. Yeah. I do want to see it. I know we'll Sasso's in it. There's a couple other people in it that I like. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Eventually one of these days, you know, maybe I could find it on DVD.

Bill (17:00.817)
Since it's, I, yeah, yeah, not VHS for sure. I'm like, I don't even, do they even make DVDs anymore of these, the newer shows? If it was from like 20 years ago, you could probably find it on DVD. Yeah.

Mike (17:04.76)
VHS.

Mike (17:14.382)
Right. I don't know, man. Yeah. Eventually I'll find it somewhere.

Bill (17:19.501)
Yeah, but yeah, I do recommend it. I think you'll enjoy it. So, okay, so on another, kind of along those same lines and something I wrote down at one point, did you ever go through, well, I'm sure you did, but let me just put it this way. How many times did you have to go through alcohol assessments? Do you remember how many times you had to with like filling out forms or questionnaires? And did you try to lie and manipulate the results?

Mike (17:24.812)
Nah.

Mike (17:44.728)
Um, no, I don't think I ever allowed myself to be put in a situation where I had to do that. Yeah.

Bill (17:50.605)
Really? Well, I guess then again, you never got the DUI. So I mean, that was the, I think that was the first time.

Mike (17:57.614)
Right. Yeah. I never got the DUI and you know, whatever I was working some shithole job and they started coming down on me. I just fucking left. Yep. Or even a good job. You know, I did. They started, uh, trying to get close to me or whatever. I just got the hell out of there. Yep.

Bill (18:06.029)
Right. Well, in the.

Bill (18:17.133)
Right. And I'm trying to think, well, I know that the first time would have been, yeah, I guess for me would have been the DUI. And I had to go through in the same thing. You go to a place and you fill out the form and you do all the different stuff. You talk to somebody and I went through all the drunk classes. I talked about that. I can't remember what episode that was. But the thing that I thought about was, and you sit there and you tried to, I mean, you can't manipulate those. Even if you.

Mike (18:23.406)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (18:46.157)
Even if you go really light on it, I think those questionnaires to a certain extent are just bullshit. Because if you look at a lot of those pamphlets, if you look at the top 10 things, if they ask you all those questions, you might be, I think even a normal person could fill out one of those, a pamphlet, and probably be like, you might have a problem. But I went through the full assessments and all those different things.

Mike (19:03.596)
Mm -hmm.

Alright.

Bill (19:11.757)
It doesn't matter. You try to lighten it up and I was still a fucking alcoholic as far as they looked at it or problematic, however you wanted to put it. But then I had to go through it again through when Dawn and I were going through a divorce, you know, because we, that was all the court ordered stuff and I had to go through the counseling. And man, I mean, I fought for my life trying to not lose custody of my son and just, you know, by sheer luck, because he knew. I mean, the guy that,

Mike (19:15.598)
Right! Hehehehehe!

Mike (19:25.74)
Right?

Bill (19:41.549)
The guy that I was seeing, that I was ordered to see as the counselor, he fucking knew, but I don't know if he just didn't have enough full proof. He had me limited. I was limited down to visitation and all those different things until I could prove myself type of thing. But they just didn't have any, I never got caught fully, I guess is the best way to put it. But again, I didn't deserve to have even what I did at that time. I'm grateful that I,

Mike (19:47.758)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (19:52.406)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:00.256)
Right.

Bill (20:11.501)
that I had that and I didn't lose that time because that would have been, that would have been, you know, probably, well, it four years, you know, from the time we, we split up until I got sober and had I not had visitation, I mean, I could have lost, I could have lost a lot, you know, when it comes to, you know, to my son, of course. But, um, again, for, for whatever reason, you know, I, that didn't happen, but same thing just kind of popped into my head and I'm like, it just doesn't, um, there's no way in the fucking world that I could have completely lied my way out of that stuff. It just wasn't.

Mike (20:26.764)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:40.238)
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We think we can, but we definitely can't. People know.

Bill (20:41.421)
You know, yeah. Well, you know, the funniest thing with this counselor, and he was sober. I mean, he was one of those. I mean, so I did, like I said before, I mean, I knew enough about this whole thing from my dad. Once again, probably enough to make me dangerous or make me think I knew sort of what I was doing, which I didn't, you know, but.

Mike (20:58.22)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (21:06.797)
I remember going in the one time, he was asking me all these questions and we were going through these exercises and whatever. And I had said something about, you know, the fact that I said you were trying to, you know, figure out if I had a problem with alcohol or, you know, or whatever, and this and that. I don't know how it came up. And he's like, he goes, I'm not trying to figure out if you have a problem with alcohol. He goes, I know you do. He goes, he goes, I just can't figure out, you know, if, if you can be labeled or if I could report that you, you know, label you as an actual alcoholic.

Mike (21:26.766)
Mmm -hmm -hmm -hmm.

Mike (21:35.982)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (21:36.439)
And I'm like, my god damn dude. But he didn't pull any punches. He goes, I know you've got a problem with alcohol. He goes, I can't figure out. He goes, I have no, maybe he even said that. He goes, I have no definitive proof to show that you're a full blown alcoholic or whatever it is. And seriously, I could only imagine the look on my face. It's probably like, holy fuck.

Mike (21:39.414)
Hehehehehe

Mike (21:46.606)
Right.

Mike (21:53.004)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (22:05.261)
Like, again, we think that nobody else knows, but yeah, yeah, everyone fucking knows, right?

Mike (22:12.59)
Absolutely.

Bill (22:14.733)
So yeah, I think it feels like we're getting a little bit of that to lay back again. OK. Let's see. I talked about that. I got that.

Mike (22:18.318)
Yeah, we are.

Mike (22:24.942)
I've actually got something.

Bill (22:27.213)
What? Yeah, go ahead.

Mike (22:28.942)
All right, man. I was I had a live load today, so I had about an hour to kill and scrolling Facebook and blah, blah, blah. And this popped up. It's from my rational satanic recovery fellow shipping page. Right. You know, like I said, I've talked about it before. I actually got the book and, you it's bullshit like any other bullshit of organized trying to figure shit out. But this guy posted on that page.

Bill (22:44.653)
Ha ha.

Mike (22:58.99)
And it's um, actually it's a, I don't know. It's a little long. It's probably gonna take a couple of minutes to read, but, um, I'm going to read it. Cause it, I thought it was really interesting. It's from a guy named, uh, Peter Petrovich. He posted this, uh, yeah, like yesterday. Um, and he posted it in the thing. Um, I thought I'd share some more thoughts following an in -person meeting I hit yesterday. This time around the concept of will.

self -will and willingness. I've noticed that many people in meetings don't observe that quote will and quote self -will are not synonymous. They do not mean the same thing. The end result is that the two terms tend to get conflated. Easy for me to say. They tend to get conflated and this weird anti -will rhetoric has been created in the rooms that people cling to.

As if any act of will is terribly bad and should be abandoned, never mind that it is a basic function of a healthy ego. I'm unsure where this rhetoric came from, whether it's the Protestant influence in AA or perhaps just the general fact that quote self -will has largely slipped from the English language. So I really don't hear it used in everyday speech. Nevertheless, I find this problematic.

find this problematic rhetoric needs to be banished and that it doesn't actually gel with the AA text. Bill W uses the term quote self -will throughout the AA core texts and I'm convinced that this particular word choice wasn't accidental. Bill W does not seem like he was a stupid person.

Bill W is pretty handy with words and almost flowery with his tendency towards very specific word choice. And my view is that his use of self will as opposed to will was highly intentional. Self will is defined as basing your actions on your own decisions without listening to advice from other people. It's also generally considered to be synonymous with the word obscenity. No, ops, hang on.

Mike (25:19.79)
Not obscenity. It's also generally considered to be synonymous with the word obstinity. I'm ops. Fuck me, man. Oh, yes. Obstinacy. Thank you. See, I need help all the time. And it's a good word. And it's a good word to have in mind whenever you see the word self will will, on the other hand, is simply one's intent and choice to do something.

Bill (25:20.589)
Hehehehe.

Bill (25:32.013)
Like, obstinance?

Bill (25:37.645)
Hehehehe. Hehehehehe.

Mike (25:49.294)
For instance, it's my will to attend meetings, to enjoy my life and stay sober. Willingness simply means that one is in a state of mind where they are open to exercising their will as an act of volition. It's probably worth noting that compulsions aren't will. The Uncover Satan, Recover Yourself text covers the issue of compulsions. That's the book I was talking about.

uh, covers the issue of compulsions pretty solidly. And if you're acting out of a compulsion, this is effectively the opposite of will. You can't even call it self -will. Swinging back around to the good old self -will, a prime example of that is our insistence to obstinately trying to manage our substance use, ignoring all the contrary advice and evidence that we have a problem with substances or processes.

Once we drop the obstinate part, we still need to exercise will to pursue recovery. We need to enact that will in the face of our compulsions, which are attempting to drive us otherwise. As a closing comment, I might as well make a reference to God's will. For me, God's will is nothing more than coming to terms with the uncertainty and chaos. There is no God's will to follow at all.

It's simply a handy little mnemonic to shift our thinking and relationship with uncertainty and our efforts at control. When one hands it over to God's will, all you're really doing is saying, I cannot control this thing. I've happily found in my own recovery that I can achieve the outcome of coming to terms with a chaotic universe without needing to involve the mental mnemonic ritual of a higher power concept.

Bill (27:42.605)
Hmm. So I mean, the main and first of all, that that's interesting. I mean, especially knowing that, you know, that the mindset of the individual that posted that, knowing that it's coming from, like you said, even with it's it's from that satanic type of booklet thing and whatever there, we're still on the same path. You know what I mean? I mean, the the words and the thoughts and everything in there is everything is still on the same. Had you not even mentioned anything or took out any words on there?

Mike (27:43.318)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (27:54.458)
Thank you.

Mm -hmm. Right. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Mike (28:11.18)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:11.277)
you know, about the satanic part of it, that could have been from any recovery book, right? Which is, no, I know, but that's what I'm saying. It could have been from any recovery book. It didn't matter any specific one. It could have been pick the title, pick the group, pick the name. It could have been from any, not any specific one, but any of the recovery groups, which I think is kind of cool. So.

Mike (28:15.502)
Right, exactly. Well, it is a recovery book.

Mike (28:22.126)
Right, exactly.

Mike (28:30.35)
Exactly. Right. But yeah, the difference between will self -will and willingness. Right. Right. And you know, the self -will, which, you know, is, is what we're trying to get away from our self -will. Um, but yeah, the, the, what he's talking about is in the meetings and stuff. Yes. We're, we're, we're, we, um, we kind of like, uh, pass off.

Bill (28:38.317)
Right.

Bill (28:45.049)
Right.

Mike (29:00.63)
Will you know our own will not self will but will you know the willingness to? I will myself to go to a meeting I will myself to be to do the things that I have to do to stay sober That's not self will that's will and will is is a good thing. Like you said, it's a healthy part of our ego um, you know as opposed to self will just trying to the control, you know, and and and turning it over and and then god's will, you know, just um,

Yeah. The things that we can't control, like out of the serenity prayer, you know? Yeah. The things I can't control. The will is the things I can change. Give me the strength to change the things I can. That is will. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know? So yeah. And the rooms a lot, we hear about, you know, self -will, it's such a bad thing. And, but you hear, you don't hear self -will so much. You just hear will.

Bill (29:38.541)
you

Mike (29:55.606)
You know, like will is a bad thing. You know, your will, your will, no, it needs to be God's will. No, my will is, is a pretty strong thing. And we need to remember that. That my, that our will is, is, is a tool. You know, if we're using it the right way, not self will, but will.

Bill (30:13.773)
Well, and that's where the term self will run riot. That's the bad thing. And, you know, when we always, we always say, you know, the, like you say, when the Lord's prayer is, you know, thy will be done. Um, you know, somebody else's will. And I talked about it, like when I was going through my job search, when, you know, I'm trying to force things and I'm trying to do that. That's basically, uh, if, if I'm feeling this, right. I'm feeling what you're putting down here. Um, is that.

Mike (30:16.748)
Mm -hmm. Exactly.

Mike (30:24.044)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (30:28.46)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (30:35.724)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (30:39.797)
You know, it's my, my self will wants to force and wants to fuck things up and whatever. But really what I'm saying, you know, it's somebody else's will, not mine. I'm saying, give me some of that goodwill so I could have that to push forward. Right. Kind of. Am I thinking about that? Right. Okay.

Mike (30:44.814)
Right. Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Right. And like he says, you know, uh, Bill Wilson knew what he knew what the words meant and he was a smart guy. And that's why he used self -will in, in those phrases, self -will run riot, not will run riot. No, I fuck. I wish my will would run riot. I'm too goddamn tired to have my.

Bill (31:11.821)
Right.

Mike (31:14.35)
I gotta gin that up, man.

Bill (31:17.165)
Right. Well, and he's in the one thing when and I was shaking my head, you know, obviously shaking my head. Yes. When he was talking about in if anyone insane deal, I mean, if you're not if you're not a 12 step person and you haven't read things out of the out of the big book specifically, I would almost guarantee if you're if you're alcohol free in recovery or whatever you're doing to to be, you know, without alcohol in your life, you've done any type of reading.

or quotes or things like that. You've probably read some of Bill Wilson's stuff and maybe didn't know it because I mean, it is. He was really intelligent and very particular. And what did he put? There was words in the, there's a couple of passages that he used a couple of different words or it was this, he would use whatever he meant to mean.

Mike (31:46.774)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (32:06.613)
meant to say he would find two different words that meant the same thing. So he didn't repeat that the same word throughout a paragraph or throughout a couple of pages. You know, it would be the same word or the same meaning given the same result of what he was trying to say, but he would literally switch the words around, you know, and some of these things became, and I can't think of them off the top of my head, but became catchphrases, you know, on both sides of it. They mean the same thing, just different words. So I agree with that particularly. And if he's using

Mike (32:12.11)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (32:34.667)
you know, self will versus the actual word, the will to do something. And I get that. I mean, it's, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. And then, you know, like you said, willingness, I mean, we have to have willingness. I think, I think everyone agrees with that when it comes to recovery or if, if you don't, I mean, I get, I suppose I get it, but I, I don't, if, if I didn't have, you mentioned it, you know, plenty of times, but I know right in the beginning, when, when we started doing this, this podcast,

Mike (32:45.646)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (33:00.555)
you know, talking about just a little bit of hope and a little bit of faith and a little bit of willingness, you know? And these aren't, you know, original thoughts by you. These are things that we've... I was trying to give you a little bit of credit, but also trying to keep you humble there for a minute. You know, but these are things we've been told, but it is true. You know, we have to have... I've got to have the willingness to do... I've got to have the willingness to take a fucking shower and not shit myself. And I mean, I have to have the willingness to do all of it, to do work, you know, and not...

Mike (33:07.63)
Oh hell no.

Mike (33:12.078)
Nah. Right.

Mike (33:24.782)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (33:29.773)
Get out of fucking bed, you know?

Mike (33:29.806)
Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. But, and that is, and you have to muster up your own will to go with that willingness. Cause I can, I can be, you know, I can be willing to not shit myself, but if I don't take my asshole, they'll take my will and tight my asshole. I'm going to shit myself.

Bill (33:42.763)
Hahaha!

Bill (33:49.165)
Right? Yeah, so if you don't take the, again, the action of tightening your butthole, then you are going to defecate amongst yourselves. But, yeah, okay, everyone, just defecate amongst yourselves. Yeah, take a minute, take a minute. But, no, that's, I mean, that's interesting. It's got me here kind of, you know, that it's almost, you know, that things that make you go, hmm, type of thing, because it, in...

Mike (33:54.286)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:58.286)
Go ahead and defecate and watch yourselves.

Mike (34:13.74)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (34:15.533)
And it's going to completely change my outlook on the Lord's Prayer or Thy will be done or somebody else's will. But it's going to change my view on what I mean by that. And I think it's going to change a different thing that I have to have the thing that they call will. I have to have that. And basically what I'm praying for or throwing up there is to try to get back some of this more positive stuff and get rid of that.

Mike (34:20.03)
Mm -hmm

Mike (34:27.404)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (34:34.988)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (34:44.437)
You know what, if I'm anxious and if I want to control things that I want to, you know, run the show as it says in the book and all these different things, that's self -will. That's this fucked up self. That's my, my self -will trying to run riot. I need someone at goodwill in there. You know what I want to do at the end of this episode? I want to search for the word will now. And I bet you we said will more than we said fuck in this episode.

Mike (34:51.374)
Absolutely. Right. Absolutely.

Mike (35:08.49)
Hehehehehe

Quite possibly.

Bill (35:14.285)
But no, that's a good one. Seriously, it's got me thinking a little bit. I mean, not really that I have questions or anything, but it's just great. That just opened my mind a little bit there, Mike.

Mike (35:27.214)
Well, cool. I'm glad. Yeah. I mean, it made me, you know, when I read it this morning, I was like, Oh, this is, this is good. I like this. And yeah, it made me think too. And, and so I wanted to share it with you and our listeners.

Bill (35:38.861)
Right. Well, and that's a cool part too that, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, how much we've grown and sometimes we kind of, you know, fuck around and obviously tell the stories about how shitty we used to be and stuff like that, which are true. You know, they're not just jokes, you know, but I love the fact of things like that. I mean, and not even the fact, yeah, we've been sober a bit and it doesn't even matter the timeframe, but the number of times that we've talked about.

somebody else's will and I will be done and stuff like that. And just basically, and not necessarily in a bad way, but this robotic way that we've, at least that I've thought about it. And now I love the fact that my mind is still, that my mind accepts new thoughts because I could be kind of rigid, you know, in a lot of ways. I know you can, you know, both of us are, you know, and we're pretty fucking honest about that stuff.

Mike (36:23.222)
Mm -hmm.

Sure. No. Yeah, absolutely.

Right. Well, again, it's, it's fighting the balance. Cause I mean, some of this shit we have to be rigid about, you know, but yes, it's finding the balance. It's constant. It's a constant battle to find the balance. Right. But with that as well, with the rigidness and also being open to new thoughts and being flexible enough to allow those new thoughts to come in and maybe even move one of those old thoughts that were working just fine. But maybe this new thought works even better.

Bill (37:01.773)
All right, yeah, it's just a, it's an addition to, you know, the thought, but I like that. It expands that, I don't know, it just took this, I mean, for no better way to put it, it just in my head, I'm thinking about that took this vanilla statement that we've been saying for years and just added a little bit of flavor to it, you know, and I like it. Yeah, I like that, I really do. So thank you. Oh, and what I was gonna say, and then I should mark the time here. So with these, what I've noticed with,

Mike (37:02.252)
Yeah!

Mm -hmm.

Mike (37:18.286)
Mm -hmm. Nice. Good.

Bill (37:30.701)
Because the way I do clips every day now, and I tried to find a simple way to do it. So I completely stopped. I had until June to still use Spotify to do the background music and stuff. And I'm like, no, I'm just going to make the hard switch, get everything done, now get used to it. So I'm not trying to scramble at the time. So whatever it is, for the last handful of episodes, I'm doing it a different way now. So when I do episode clips now, this app, headliner that I use now to run the clips.

Mike (37:32.716)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (37:59.181)
The only way that I could figure it out and it works out perfectly, the fact that we run usually for 90 minutes, I always run, the first clip is done at the beginning, that's the first minute or two, that's on every episode. And then what I've done is go for every day, I go every 15 minutes, I just scan it, hit it, and that's where I do my clips. I don't listen to them, I just do it at 15 and then 30 and then 45 and 60. And for Thursday and Friday, I take that last 30 minutes.

Mike (38:05.166)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (38:26.413)
and I'll go 10 in from one side and 10 minutes in from the other side. And that's where I do my clips. I just, I needed to find some structure so I'm not spending a ton of time cutting these clips, you know? But when I had the ability to pick and choose, I would go, I would look for that I was talking in a clip and then the next day you were doing more of the talking and then I'd alternate, you know? But as it turns out, sometimes, especially like in the episode that you weren't feeling good,

Mike (38:35.916)
Right.

Mike (38:55.34)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (38:56.461)
we would get more of that. That was you in the clist. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. So I feel kind of bad because once I run them, I'm like, I know what everyone else fucking knows. I talk more on this than you do. I try not to. You have your conversations, but I think if we add percentage -wise, I'm at least 60%, probably. Just...

Mike (38:59.438)
Right? Right, right, right.

Mike (39:17.55)
Yeah, right. Well, yeah, you just, you just did life. You talk more than I do.

Bill (39:21.805)
Right, but then, but on top of that too, I'm the one that's reading off the questions and that sort of thing. So it just inadvertently sometimes, but yes, I mean, yes, I talk more than you, but I was just gonna, I was gonna mess with you. I forgot to bring it up tonight. I'm like every 15 or 20 minutes, you have to talk for a few minutes and then you got a better shot, you got a better shot of being in my clips because it's really not every 15 minutes, you know, based on this recording, because at the front, I've got two, three minutes of the opening and then, you know, we got the.

Mike (39:26.254)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (39:49.773)
podcast, website, ad there, and then whatever, you know, so it goes off a little bit. But I think, you know, with that reading, you're gonna, you're probably gonna get focused on with that reading. So yeah, and you know, the thing of it is, and what's funny is the only person that I know for sure, I think that we know for sure, that has listened to those episode clips is Dan from Cleveland. When he said, when he came up to us, said, who do you know? And he's like,

Mike (39:57.966)
I'll be famous on the internet.

Bill (40:16.877)
How the fuck do I hear the whole episode? He goes, all I do is listen. Because I listened to these two minute clips and then it's done. He goes, how can I listen to the whole goddamn thing? And we're sitting there at the, you know, on the sidewalk outside of the meeting, setting them up on Spotify so he could listen to our episodes. But yeah, I don't think anyone listens to the clips anyhow, but that was a whole nother, that was the whole other thing about that. But well, seriously, 100 % honest to God, I am so, I'm glad you brought that up because.

Mike (40:18.348)
NNNN

Mike (40:25.612)
Right.

Mike (40:32.556)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (40:44.371)
Yeah, that just put a whole new fucking thing. Only a little thought in my head. I like it. I like it a lot

Mike (40:48.398)
Good. All right. Good. That's right. Brought to you by Satan.

Bill (40:52.333)
Yeah, so and what? Yes, I you know what I hope because here here's what happens. Here's how the ads run now. And I know you don't you don't listen to the episodes, but on Spotify, basically when when I put the episode together, Spotify has this this smart ad thing in it. Basically it'll take your entire episode. It'll scan for spaces to put it in. So if we have, you know, like comfortable spaces, it.

AI throws ads in them. You know, so I hope, I hope that one of these, one of these fucking ads happens to pop in there where you said brought to you by Satan. I think that would be just fucking funny. All right. Um, so I'm going to go on, I'm going to go on my second page here on things that I, uh, I probably had written down fucking years ago. So let's figure out something. Uh,

Mike (41:34.99)
Thanks for watching.

Bill (41:50.445)
All right, I've got one here. So from Keep It Simple, I will list three examples of my past insanity. I will share these examples with my group sponsor, a program or a program friend or a higher power. So let's even say, and I'm obviously they're talking about, it was a reading about insanity. Do you have even one or two things that you used to do that stick out to you that these were clearly during your drinking days that were your...

your main things that you used to do that were insanity.

Mike (42:25.678)
Um.

Mike (42:30.254)
other than dealing with this delay, let's see. I, I don't know, man, you know, try the insane, the insane notion that, that I was controlling my drinking, the insane notion that I could handle alcohol and drugs, the insane notion that I wasn't hurting anybody else. I wasn't affecting anyone else. Those, those are the first ones that pop into my mind.

Bill (42:57.229)
Yeah, and that was the, I mean, as I was just reading that now, because I don't remember when I wrote this down was the same thing that, you know, the, my thought of, uh, I'm not that bad. Um, you know, fuck you if you, you know, if you don't want to hear my apologies type of thing, that type of, that type of insanity. Um, and just really, I mean, running, running through life, you know, thinking that I'm, that I'm not hurting people, you know, so almost the same type of things as you were just talking about, but, um, yeah, I agree with you this.

That the delay was fine there for a minute. But yeah, when I asked you that last question, there was another those three, four seconds, five seconds in there until until we got back. So, yeah, this this delay is definitely back in there. So fucking weird. All right. So one last thing. And this was just another thing they were talking about on the radio. So I don't know if you heard this. It just kind of made me laugh. They were talking about there was an article that they were talking about on the radio.

Have you heard anything about Miami and spring break and how basically Miami is trying to keep people away for spring break? Have you heard anything like that?

Mike (44:02.67)
Yeah, I've heard about it. Yeah, that they've shut it down and yeah, they're trying to keep the kids out of Miami, which is it's party city anyway. So yeah, good luck with that.

Bill (44:11.693)
Right. Well, and that's the thing that kind of made me laugh because that's what they're talking about on the radio there. Yeah, they're they're making restaurant. I mean, not just bars, restaurants shut down at a certain point. They're closing beaches down at like six o 'clock. They changed the for non residents. They were saying that they changed the drinking age. There was like a law passed to change the drinking age, I think, to twenty three for anyone that's that's out of state.

all these different things, which I mean, I was just kind of laughing about because I mean, yeah, like you said, it's party city. I mean, isn't that like one of the cocaine capitals of the world or something like that? And, and I'm like, I mean, I get it. You know, they're talking about all these fucking kids rolling into town and messing up, you know, messing up the bars, messing up the restaurants, you know, messing up the hotel rooms and causing trouble and fighting in the streets and doing all this stuff. And I mean, I get it. It just, it just kind of blew my mind when I, when I,

was listening to it. But yeah, I don't know. I just didn't know if you heard about it, but I just thought it was kind of, I don't know, it seemed kind of weird because it's fucking Miami and you're worried about, you know, college kids when it's fucking drug infested place. So, right.

Mike (45:27.704)
Absolutely. Right.

Bill (45:31.181)
Alright, so you know what? Yeah, I think we've have we pushed our luck long enough with this fucking delay I mean, it's been it's getting bad again

Mike (45:41.998)
It is getting bad again. I think it's time to wrap this shit up.

Bill (45:47.917)
Okay, well, yeah, let's go for one more delay and then you can run us out of here, all right?

Mike (45:55.328)
Alright then. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober not mature Hope you got something out of this one I know I did as always be kind to each other be good to each other go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody that you did it now It's time. It's time kids. It's time for you, Gary It's time for you to fuck off then keep fucking off Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with the sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here

Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (46:32.205)
I was really wondering and hoping that you would mention Gary in that. So Gary, rock on brother. Yeah, that one was definitely for you, right? But yeah, I don't know. This delay is really something else. So we're just gonna say our goodbyes. And Mike, I love you brother. I know we'll talk soon. There'll be a slight delay and then goodbye.

Mike (46:45.33)
Absolutely.

Mike (47:02.51)
I love you too, brother. Bye.