SoberNotMature - Episode 108 (Please Excuse Our Dust)

Bill (00:00.)
Everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not but sure and I'm looking out the window right now and there's still not only is it light out but there's fucking sunshine out right now which is different. Thank you daylight savings, right?

Mike (00:10.024)
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, I've got, I've got light. I don't have sunshine.

Bill (00:18.798)
Well, I mean, you are an hour ahead, so I mean, that, uh, I figured that does make a difference, and seeing as it's, well...

Mike (00:24.852)
Well, it's gloomy. It's gloomy here.

Bill (00:27.054)
Oh, okay. Yeah, it's I don't know the last couple of days have been decent ish. It was a little weird the other day, but yeah decent ish today. So yeah, it just I don't know we're starting Yeah, well, we're we're starting earlier too, which is kind of nice and you know We're like in anywhere between you know, 30 minutes to you know an hour earlier than we do. So again, I don't know just in general It's kind of nice. So quick thought on that and I just I hear it every fucking year every time the time changes either way

Mike (00:34.784)
Hot weather talk.

Mike (00:42.182)
Right.

Mike (00:52.884)
you

Bill (00:53.614)
this see it's not even seasonal is it seasonal depression shit that people go through I mean either whether we yeah that part I get because that's lack of sunshine and all that sort of things but I mean when when the clocks change you know all these people get like fucked up in the head I don't understand it I mean did but I don't know you you think about it when when I drive from here I

Mike (00:58.898)
Yeah, well in winter time, yeah.

Mike (01:11.124)
I don't know. I mean, I got drunk, but other than that.

Bill (01:19.662)
Ohio I could drive a half hour away from here and be be an hour ahead I lose an hour you know I mean I my mind doesn't go fuck I don't go nuts every time you know I drive back and forth to Cleveland it just I don't I don't get it

Mike (01:21.524)
Mm -hmm. Right, right.

Mike (01:31.092)
I mean, when I come visit you guys, you know, and it's eleven o 'clock at night and it's fucking midnight in my head. Yeah, it's it's a little rough, but that's alright.

Bill (01:36.334)
Yeah, you know what is funny is mom and Larry used to do that every time every time when they came out to visit Kathy and Mark because we'd all get get together usually down at their place and you know Mark used to always joke and he's like because Larry be like who tired because it's like 930 which is you know 1030 his time and Mark's like what you got you always tease him and ask him if he had jet lag you know from from driving out there.

Mike (01:51.316)
Sure.

Mike (01:55.936)
You're right. Yeah.

Mike (02:05.298)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (02:06.47)
But I don't know, that just crossed my mind. Nobody likes losing time, but hey, whatever. Like you said, you said you got drunk. We used to lose a lot of time, but we got drunk.

Mike (02:12.236)
Right. Right. Absolutely right. Well, I did see an interesting post the other day. Yeah, when it was going on, it was like, yeah, that already lost. That was the hour I was going to get my shit together. Yeah, yeah, I liked it too. So I thought I'd share it.

Bill (02:30.606)
See, I like that. I like that. So a couple of just a couple of quick announcements before we actually get started. First of all, today my grandson is two years sober.

Mike (02:43.948)
Hmm, that's right. Yes, he is. As far as you know.

Bill (02:48.302)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so whoever, whoever didn't get the joke. Yeah, my son is two years old or son, my grandson is two years old today. But yeah, I was I was trying to, you know, I did a post on Facebook and Instagram this morning and then I texted Kimmy and I said, happy birthday to, you know, my favorite little boy and blah, blah, blah. And she's like, oh, we get a chance. Let's try to, you know, touch base today because, you know, do a video chat with him. And she wasn't feeling well.

Mike (02:59.028)
Hehehehe.

Mike (03:05.444)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (03:13.684)
Right. Mm -hmm.

Bill (03:16.078)
But then, I don't know, it like a half hour or so ago. She's like, yeah, she's like, Brian and Ollie just got back from, they went up to the mall to get a Build -A -Bear thing. And she's like, if you got a minute. So I popped on and he was, he was like wanting to get some yogurt or something like that. He was, he was fine. You know, got a little, I got my little bit of time with him, but he, then he threw a fit and then he walked away and then walked back. And you know, he waved to me a couple of times. So, yeah, I got to, I got to say happy birthday to him. But yeah, next weekend is his birthday party. They're having it up in,

Mike (03:23.14)
Mmm.

Mike (03:32.468)
Right?

Mike (03:37.556)
Oh, that's cool.

Bill (03:45.038)
in Oshkosh. Yeah. Yeah. At some, I can't remember what the, I think it's a Buzz Lightyear themed thing or whatever. I can't remember. But oh, the next thing. So we've been talking, I think back and forth a little bit about the Black Crowes. So their new album dropped today. So, and you know, for all you old folks out there that don't know what that means, when something drops, that means it's available now to listen to.

Mike (03:47.604)
Hmm. All right.

Mike (04:06.044)
Oh.

Mike (04:12.084)
Right.

Bill (04:14.542)
I hate the term. You know, it's like if anyone... People have asked me before, when do your episodes drop? I'm like, we post new episodes on Saturday. I don't drop shit. But no, the other thing too, and I don't know if you ever, if you looked it up after I mentioned it the one time, but the title of their album is called Happiness Bastards, which I think is kind of fun. And there was two of the songs that they had released already, which both of them, the one I really enjoy and then the other one's cool.

Mike (04:21.95)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right. That's right.

Mike (04:37.78)
Mmm, nice.

Bill (04:45.102)
And I listened to, I don't know, two or three of them on my way up and back and forth to get pizza. But I'll tell you one thing that would be, I'd love to see the Foo Fighters again, but I mean, shit, those tickets went on sale, God, probably three, four months ago, I think. So I think they're sold out across the country now. But the Black Crows, I think they have dates booked through May. They're playing at Detroit. I think the weekend before our anniversaries and hopefully they'll do something more in the summer. But I mean, did you say you saw before or no?

Mike (05:01.044)
Mmm.

Mike (05:11.842)
Oh yeah, yeah, oh hell, I partied with him. Yeah.

Bill (05:15.15)
You did? Okay. Did you really? When? Okay, tell this story. We'll get to the reading here in a minute. I want to hear this shit.

Mike (05:22.93)
Um, yeah, they played here in Cleveland. This was, um, well, it was on the Amorica tour, their third album. So, um, my late nineties, maybe I was, um, yeah, I was, uh, Oh, drunk and high. Well, they had a lot of really good weed. So, um, yeah, I was smoking it up. Um,

Bill (05:27.574)
you

Bill (05:36.792)
You were drunk? Right.

Mike (05:49.076)
Yeah, yeah. They played Public All Here. Yeah, the old place. And my kid's mom, Sherry, like, you know, she parties with rock stars. That's something she does. And I was actually staying up on the third floor of her house at the time, because, you know, that's what we do. We fucking go and invade people's spaces. And

Bill (05:52.59)
Nice.

Bill (06:04.202)
Haha

Bill (06:15.95)
Hahaha

Mike (06:18.228)
Yeah. Yeah. So we went to the show and then got backstage and then we're hanging out and party. And I was actually, um, you know, Chris kind of intimidated me. Rich was, um, just kind of off by himself. He wasn't really into the massive partying thing. Um, the drummer kind of intimidated me. He's actually like, uh, well, he's not banned anymore. And, uh, he's like some sportscaster or something for ESPN now, but, uh, yeah.

Bill (06:43.502)
Really?

Mike (06:45.876)
Uh, Steve Gorman, they, they had a really bad breakup, but, um, but, uh, yeah, Johnny Colt, the bass player, that's who I was hanging out with. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's about all I'm going to say about that. There were some, some things going on that I don't want to incriminate anyone, even though the statute of limitations has probably passed. Um, but yes, I hung out backstage with the black black crows and smoked a bunch of their dope.

Bill (06:57.678)
Hahaha!

Hehehe

Bill (07:08.628)
Well, that's cool. I well, and I suppose that that kind of goes into the whole anonymity thing. You're protecting their anonymity, which is what we do in general. So.

Mike (07:18.356)
Right. Well, I mean, it's no big secret. They smoke a lot of pot. So I'm not throwing anybody under the bus there. But yeah. Uh -huh. Yeah. So yeah, I've seen them and hung out with them a bit. Yeah.

Bill (07:21.038)
Right, right. Yeah, well, that's cool.

Bill (07:30.926)
That's cool. Well, and that's, that's what's fun. I mean, every, and I know we've talked about your, you know, your past and your band stuff and different people that you've ran across. That's why any time you mentioned shit like that, I'm like, pause, let's talk about this shit for a minute. Because, um, I mean, fuck man, I've known you for almost 14 years and we've talked about the black crows. I remember sitting in, we were in your car one time, we were cruising around. I think we're going out to see Ryan and Carla when, uh, right after Lucy was born and you were listening. I'm like, is this.

Mike (07:38.994)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (07:50.196)
Right.

Mike (07:59.728)
Right?

Bill (07:59.822)
black crows and you said yeah because it it was some off song that I hadn't heard before but yeah we were listening to it in your car and that's lately I mean since that new song came out I've been listening to just on Spotify listening to it and not that I don't like you know they're all their mainstream songs you know that all the radio songs I do but I mean when those songs come on I've just I usually pop through it because I'm listening to all the all the other ones that either I've never heard or yeah I mean the ones that I either I haven't heard in a long time or

Mike (08:05.076)
Great.

Mike (08:12.852)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (08:16.532)
Sure.

Mike (08:25.364)
The deep cuts, man.

Bill (08:29.646)
heard. You know, so, but yeah, I, I tell you, I'd, I'd like that as one band I would like to see. And, you know, if they're, if they're touring past, I don't know, like I said, I think they're, it's only dates through May that I saw. So, I don't know if I want to keep an eye on that, but I don't know the first, first few songs, three, four songs to the album. I mean, I like it. And it's, you would, even if you just heard the music and they didn't sing a note, I think anyone who knows the Black Crows would know it's them.

Mike (08:30.102)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (08:56.582)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (08:59.544)
You know, so it's got that same, I don't even know, you know, they've got a sound just like everyone else. You know, their sound, it is clear. It's fun. It's fun. So. Yeah, right, right. So, yeah, those were my those were my two announcements. I wanted to talk about, yeah, the Black Crows. I've been meaning to bring that up that that because I knew the album was coming out, but I couldn't remember when. And then I got a notification today that, you know, because I've been listening so much to like, hey, by the way,

Mike (09:07.732)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. They saw like the faces.

Mike (09:18.086)
you

Mike (09:28.596)
Right. Right. Cool. Well, I've caught one of the singles at some point. I listened to about half of it or something. Yeah, you know, it's good. Yeah. Again, I'm old. I'm setting my ways. I've got two of their albums I really, really love. And I'm good with that. I don't need new music, god damn it. The old stuff's just fine.

Bill (09:28.878)
Why don't you listen to the new album too? I'm like, why I think I will. Yeah.

Bill (09:38.978)
Thank you.

Bill (09:55.054)
You know, in their art, there are very few. Oh, and when I listen to like a mix with the Black Crows, because you know, on Spotify, well, you don't know, because you don't listen to Spotify. But you can you can listen to if you listen to one song by an artist, then it'll it'll just start playing other, you know, songs within that genre and things like that other bands. So they're playing a lot of the the new Rolling Stone song comes up, the song Angry that we had talked about in that the first time I heard it, I was just kind of like, eh.

Mike (10:00.44)
Right. No.

Mike (10:22.706)
Mm -hmm. Right. Yeah.

Bill (10:24.622)
And then the more I hear it, I'm like, I kind of like that fucking song. It's another one. I mean, whenever there, I don't know if that new album is out yet, but I'd be interested to hear the rest of the album.

Mike (10:35.816)
Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. It's been out for shit. Three, four months.

Bill (10:39.488)
Has it really? Okay, I'll have to listen to it because I heard that that song Angry was not necessarily... All the other songs were necessarily like that. That Angry was a little bit more poppy and things like that and I don't know, but maybe I'll listen to it and see what's what. Okay, well I know you're 100 years... Once again, I know you're setting your ways and you're old and grumpy and all that stuff, but I figured that I know you like the Black Crowes. So you know there's...

Mike (10:41.884)
Mm hmm.

Mike (10:48.852)
you

Mike (10:53.332)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:58.196)
I'll go put on exile at Main Street.

Mike (11:05.196)
Great.

Bill (11:07.79)
There's music that you and I can talk about. You don't necessarily like all the music that I listen to, but you and I, you and I, you know, kind of line up on some. So that's the ones I talk about. All right. In in my not even in Mike's opinion, that's that's the world. That's that that's the gospel according to Mike. Right. I just I disagree with you now, because I I used to ask you a lot of.

Mike (11:13.3)
Mm -hmm.

Right, absolutely. Yeah, again, once again, there's only two kinds, good and bad.

Mike (11:28.914)
Mm -hmm. Two kinds of music in the world, good and bad.

Mike (11:36.468)
Yeah

Bill (11:36.75)
I used to ask you a lot of questions about that. A lot of times it just made me laugh, but yeah, it's fine. I agree. There's a lot of the songs that are things you talk about, the music that you say is bad, and I 100 % agree with you. So again, lined up in a lot of those cases. All right, so those are my two announcements. Are we, you want to hit the reading now or? Let's do it, man.

Mike (11:40.532)
Right. Uh -huh.

Mike (11:51.06)
Right.

Mike (11:59.796)
Let's do it. All right. Let's see what I got here. Hang on a second. Oh yeah. This is from, yeah, this week. I knew there was one that, yeah, you know, yeah, March 10th. Guilt, the gift that keeps on giving. Irma Bombeck, an old newspaper columnist, humorous sort of writer for Housewives. Anyway.

Bill (12:12.62)
Nice.

Bill (12:22.478)
you

Mike (12:29.204)
Here we go. Um, often we are confused about the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt can be good. It tells us we may be acting in a way that betrays our values. Guilt asks us that we should keep our behaviors in line with our values. Shame on the other hand, tells us we are no good, that we have little, if any value. This is the, this is the lie of shame. Addiction thrives through shame.

Bill (12:35.854)
you

Mike (12:57.288)
Recovery heals shame by giving us a new perspective based on responsibility for our disease and dignity in our recovery. To keep us on the right track, we start our meetings. I'm blank and I'm an alcoholic or hi, my name is blank and I'm a drug addict. Hi, my name's Mike and I'm both. In order to keep this perspective in our daily living, we strive for conscious contact with our higher power.

Bill (13:19.086)
you

Mike (13:26.164)
We seek this through prayer and meditation, which can guide us to stay on the path of the Spirit. Prayer for the day. I pray for conscious contact, higher power. Tell me when I'm acting in accordance with your wishes and tell me when I need to change. Thank you for your voice of reason and love. Today's action, because this is a program of action. Today I will think about what changes I need to make. I'll list.

Bill (13:28.896)
you

Bill (13:34.414)
you

Mike (13:54.8)
any ways my behavior does not match up with my values and share this list with my sponsor.

Bill (14:02.19)
I remember that one. If you would have said it was from six months ago, I would have believed you too. Because, again, I would have believed you.

Mike (14:03.814)
Sure. Yes, but unfortunately, I can't lie about little **** things like that anymore.

Bill (14:13.774)
Right. It's just funny because the, and that's the, you know, I say it all the time, but these readings, I mean, they stick in my head. And even if I don't remember what I read this morning or what I, Christ, what I posted this morning, when I'm reading it, I remember stuff. And then now that still, I love the fact that you do a reading in every episode. I enjoy it. It always turns into a good conversation that, so it fills time.

Mike (14:33.46)
you

Mike (14:37.844)
Right.

Hehehehehe

Bill (14:41.336)
But I think it's, I don't know, it's just always good conversations. So guilt and shame, and I remember reading about that and thinking about that, you know, kind of almost like pondering that for a minute because, you know, I like the fact that what it says, I think somewhere along the lines where guilt can basically show us when we're doing wrong, correct? Is that, I don't remember the exact words to it, but shame makes us feel like we have little or no value, right? Is that?

Mike (14:52.414)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:00.29)
Right. Yep.

Bill (15:09.774)
I was trying to scribble as you were reading.

Mike (15:10.452)
Right, yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Right. And, uh, and shame is a big part of addiction, right? You know, I feel shame and so then I medicate myself so I don't, but then I fucking medicate myself and act like a moron. And then I'm shameful over that. And then I got to medicate myself again and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Bill (15:16.982)
Right.

Bill (15:25.998)
Heheheheh

Right. But then, I mean, guilt on the other hand, and yeah, I mean, if we do something wrong or don't do something completely or try to, you know, like we said in a few episodes, you know, shoot an angle, cut a corner, take the easier, softer way, all those sort of things, or what we think is the easier, softer way or shortcut, yeah. And we do wrong these days and we feel guilty. Or if we're about to do something wrong, we realize that, yeah, our...

Mike (15:44.852)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:52.148)
Right. Right.

Bill (15:58.67)
Maybe our, would that be called pre -guilt? Ooh, pre -guilt. Well, you know what I mean? You think about it, you're like, it's gonna fuck me up there. I'm like, I don't wanna do that. But I think I jotted down dignity in our recovery. And I think that was talking about once we get sober and realize obviously do it better.

Mike (16:02.772)
Pre guilt I'm about to guilt.

Mike (16:13.02)
Uh huh. Oh, absolutely.

Mike (16:24.37)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:24.974)
But then of course, I talked about again, conscious contact with the higher power and then making sure the last part was list of things and making sure that how we're acting matches with our values. Is that the right thing? Okay. So, and again, I'm sitting here. I sit there trying to scribble this shit. Then I look at my handwriting, I'm like, what the fuck did I just write? And I lose track of what I was scribbling. But so did you, and I know that the whole shame thing,

Mike (16:38.388)
Right.

Bill (16:55.214)
it's talked about so much in not just in recovery, but in society these days. So anything you say to somebody these days, you know, that all that that person was whatever shamed and this shamed and that shamed and.

Mike (17:00.54)
Mm -hmm. Right, right, yeah, fat shaming or yeah, right, like that sort of thing, right.

Bill (17:10.126)
Yeah, and I mean, some of it, I mean, I get it. I mean, it's we don't you don't you don't want to be cruel to people and say, hey, what's up? What's up, you bald fat ass? I mean, and I'd be speaking to you. I mean, I would I wouldn't say that. But, you know, I. Right. But if I said it for you, you wouldn't take offense to it, because it's like when I walk up to you and say, what's up, you bald ass motherfucker? Yeah, you know, those sort of things. But.

Mike (17:16.236)
No, of course not. Hi there.

Mike (17:25.436)
Uh -huh. Not too often anyway.

Mike (17:33.22)
No. Because I'm a bald fat ass. Right.

Bill (17:40.302)
Yeah. So did you feel, I mean, when, and we might've talked about this, but when, and I know both of us clearly now that we look back on it, I didn't realize I was, you know, feeling shame at the time I was, you know, in my whole active addiction. But I mean, I know now I was, but, um, plenty of fucking guilt and I could, I could make, I would be here all night if I talked about all things I felt guilty about at that point. Um, but when you first got sober, uh, was it hard for you? Did you look back at that? It, that like,

Mike (17:46.676)
Right sure Sure

Bill (18:09.322)
Again, really new 30 days. That's let's say for instance things you did. Did you feel I mean overwhelming shame at that point or?

Mike (18:11.568)
You know what I, um, I, um, really made a effort not to, um, you know, I mean, I'd been around the rooms before I knew the steps. I knew, you know, whatever. And I knew that, um, I, that was going to come later.

Bill (18:38.872)
Right.

Mike (18:39.086)
Working on that shit i really really tried to stay in the now you know just for today. Yeah one day at a time all those stupid cliches but i really did i really i knew that you know cleaning up my past and all that shit was gonna come later that's eight nine. And i need i really made an effort to focus on working one.

working two, working three, getting those down. You know, I mean, it was suggested, encouraged that that's what we do. And I took those suggestions that, you know, I, again, I knew the cleaning up shit and the working on the past was going to come later. I needed to, to build the foundation the way they said that we needed to build a foundation. And that's what I did. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't always easy. Clearly, you know, yeah.

Bill (19:18.254)
Right.

Bill (19:43.758)
Hahaha.

Mike (19:50.598)
just worked really hard at not doing that. Hey man, don't beat yourself up. It's okay. Yes. You did all this really rotten shit. Um, are you doing it right now? Okay. Then just, just focus on that. You're not doing it right now. You're, you're trying to learn how to do the next right thing. You're trying to be a good boy. Just focus on that man. Rest will come and it did. Um, but yeah, uh,

Bill (19:52.43)
you

Bill (20:14.298)
Right. Right.

Mike (20:19.63)
You know, I think that trips a lot of people up, especially early recovery. They well, I mean, we've talked about it. You know, you're trying to fix everything all at once. And, you know, yeah, I mean, you know, that ninth step never fucking ends. You're never going to clean up that mess that you made completely. But you're going to do a pretty damn good job of it. Eventually, you just got to keep fucking working this shit, you know? And yeah, you know, and the guilt and the shame. Yeah.

Bill (20:42.262)
Right.

Mike (20:49.862)
reading said man yeah the guilt's kind of okay man the guilt is a healthy thing it's telling you that you're doing something wrong in the fucking moment and I don't have the shame because I've done the best I can to clean that up and still am my past the things that I should be shameful for and and in this moment right now I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about.

Bill (20:54.35)
Right.

Mike (21:18.262)
And focus on that. That's pretty fucking good for this drunk junkie motherfucker.

Bill (21:24.038)
Yeah, that's a, I was thinking about the same thing. And then when you said that, yeah, that's a, that's a hell of a fucking feeling, right? I mean, to sit here, literally, literally right now and, you know, speaking to the, whoever the 70 people that listen to us every week. Hey, what's up? But, but no, seriously, it's it sit here and be able to honestly say that there is nothing. I mean, I,

Mike (21:40.826)
Right. Hi there. Well. Mm hmm. Right, sure.

Bill (21:50.03)
on the same way, there's nothing right now that I feel shame or guilt over. And I can easily, if I look back and I can still look back and I do every once in a while, you get these memories, these flashes back of how it was and how I was and whatever, and feel that feeling. But that's how I felt at that moment. I'm not there now. And remind me of the movie, The Breakup. I just side thought on that in a minute.

Mike (22:10.89)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (22:19.79)
But to begin with, with the shame part, I remember when I first got to Keating Center and stuff like that, I remember being around mom and being around Kathy. None of them made me feel like I should be ashamed, but it just occurred to me that I felt like I was walking into a room, looking back now, kind of like a dog that's wondering if they did something wrong. Am I going to get yelled at? Fucking tails between legs. My ears are back.

Mike (22:30.354)
Mm hmm. Right.

Mike (22:46.276)
Mm -hmm. Right. Nobody rolled up a newspaper.

Bill (22:48.622)
And nobody made me feel that way, you know, just to make that clear. Not even once. Well, let's see. No, we don't want to talk about that time. But same thing with Dawn, you know, my son's mom, you know, in talking to her on the phone and things like that, you know, for whatever reason, some of this stuff started to make sense to me and I shut my mouth and I didn't talk back to her, you know, and I didn't argue with her and...

Mike (22:56.198)
hahahaha

Mike (23:05.764)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (23:16.612)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (23:18.382)
But I was, I was ashamed at the fact that where I ended up, after being accused by her truthfully, accused is a wrong word, by being truthfully called out by her, but then lying about it and then being like, oh yeah, by the way, here I am. All those things that you said I was doing that I denied for years that you knew I was doing, even though.

Mike (23:23.91)
Sure.

Mike (23:27.27)
Mm -hmm.

All right.

Yeah, right. All those years that you were pointing out the truth and I was telling you, you were wrong.

Bill (23:44.302)
Yeah, all the times that I said the sky was green and when it was blue, it's been blue all along and you knew that, but now I've got to face up to it. You know, so yeah, so that shame was, um, yeah, it was, that was intense, but I don't remember. And I'm glad you brought that up about, you know, you focusing on knowing the steps and focusing on working one, working two, working three, knowing that you'd get to this, you know, the, the later steps. I never had that thought at that time.

Mike (23:48.26)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (23:53.604)
Right.

Mike (24:09.252)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (24:12.844)
You know, and once again, I just remind everyone my dad was sober and all that. You know, I knew enough about the program. I knew some things about the program, but not enough in detail, you know? So that never occurred to me. Although I wasn't trying to go out and fix everything, I had a, I just, I probably was abolishing, shame and guilt, you know, at that timeframe. But, you know, for whatever reason, you know, like I said, I shut my mouth. I didn't argue with people. I didn't fuck anything up any further.

Mike (24:13.254)
Sure.

Mike (24:23.846)
Uh huh. Right.

Mike (24:33.894)
Mm -hmm, sure.

Bill (24:42.446)
And, you know, I let things, you know, kind of shake themselves out and let my head pop out of my ass over time. And but yeah, I mean, we say that all the time with that with that nine step, you know, the the whole point and the biggest thing these days is knowing that either one of us can 100 percent honestly say we could walk down the street and it doesn't matter who we run across. If we feel, you know, that we've run that person, we're we're big enough, you know, individuals.

Mike (24:49.794)
Yup.

Bill (25:11.402)
That'll be being better than people, but big enough and far enough in our recovery where we're not going to have an issue with making that amends and making it right as right as we can, right?

Mike (25:22.502)
Yeah. Or at least just facing up to it, which is, yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I fucked up. Um, I, I, I am truly sorry. Is there anything I can do to make it better? If not, cool. I've done my part. See ya. Yup.

Bill (25:35.374)
Right, right. Yeah, I mean, it's, it is, it's, it's one of those things where, I don't know, I mean, it just to kind of, again, it is what it is, you know, all this, all this shit that we did and all those things, and all we can do is, and once again, for anyone that's new, you know, one of the reasons that I know I enjoy, and I know Mike enjoys too, you know, talking about some of these, these early things like that is because, you know, even though,

maybe one of us had glimpses of what the right thing was to do, we were fucking lost. In most cases, and it just, all it was is, again, that stupid saying, time takes time, right? Right.

Mike (26:07.204)
Mm -mm.

Right.

Mike (26:17.254)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, and we were so used to lying to ourselves and convinced that the fucking sky was green that, yeah, you know, it takes time to to lose that mentality, you know, but we get there. You keep doing this work and you do get there eventually. Mostly we're still working on it, but hell of a lot better than we were.

Bill (26:39.438)
Well, but yeah, when we hit the 14 year mark, which is a little over a month away for both of us, we're fixed, right? Isn't it the 14 year mark when we're fixed? Yeah, that's still the funniest thing. You know, everyone tells you, well, the year is the big deal, you know, to begin with, obviously get to that first year and then.

Mike (26:48.294)
Mm -hmm. Oh, right. Sure.

Bill (27:04.364)
the first and that second year and then somebody's like, oh, three years. It's really when, you know, it's kind of like when you got your feet under you. And then I remember Joe, you know, our sponsor, Joe, going to hit that five year mark. That's when that's kind of when you're really part of this thing. And then you hit the five year and he's like, it's really that 10 year mark is where you kind of get to like your mother fucker. Yeah, you know, it's like Don Don telling me, you know, I got my ear. Tell me what you got to what I did. And then she's like, yeah, tell me when you got three. And I'm like, OK, I got you. Just keep doing what you're doing, motherfucker.

Mike (27:04.388)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (27:14.87)
Mm -hmm

Right? Uh huh.

Mike (27:30.69)
Mm -hmm. Right. Uh -huh.

Bill (27:33.614)
But so, so speaking of all this, so the movie, the movie, the breakup, it's got Jennifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn in it. It's back from, fuck, I don't know, 2006. I, I've never been, you know, shy of saying I love Jennifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn, I think it's kind of funny. And I knew I saw the movie, but it just popped up on Netflix, I think. So I popped into it. I think it was last night when I was watching it.

Mike (27:53.284)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:00.206)
And basically the gist of the movie is they end up meeting at a baseball game, they get together, they have this wonderful courtship type of thing, buy a condo together, and then shit starts to go bad. The main point is that Vince Vaughn is just a guy, he's kind of a pig, and Jennifer Aniston does all the stuff, she doesn't feel appreciated, and then they break up, but they're still living together, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so that's the movie. I just gave you the movie. But you get, well.

Mike (28:22.758)
Okay.

Mike (28:26.19)
Cool, now I have to see it.

Bill (28:27.896)
There's a part where you get to at least see Jennifer Aniston's naked ass. So I mean, that's, that's, that's worth the time. But, um, there, I know, I know. But, um, so there, there's a part though that, um, she's, she ends up being in, in the bedroom and, uh, basically she had offered him, offered to take him to this concert kind of his, I don't know, whatever this gesture. So he stood her up and he gets home and he walks in the bedroom and she's crying, just tell him to leave. And he turns around, she's tell him all this different stuff.

Mike (28:35.942)
I guess. Never done it for me, but OK.

Bill (28:57.614)
and she's ballin' and sayin', you just don't understand all this different stuff. And you know the fucked up part at that moment? Is I remembered a conversation, probably plenty of them, that Dawn and I had. So I'm sittin' here watchin' this fuckin' movie, and I'm gettin' this fuckin' ridiculously uncomfortable feeling. I'm like, oh fuck!

Mike (29:07.75)
Yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (29:19.32)
And it just, it reminded me of it because that's exactly what I was just talking about. You know, I can look back now and get drawn into, it's the same thing as, you know, a drinking feeling, walking into a summer breeze or wherever it is. And I used to drink, you know, during this, but watching that movie at that moment, I'm like, oh my God, I was that dude. I'm like, fuck me. I'm like, I don't want be that guy, you know? But yeah, you just, and I never, well, and I...

Mike (29:19.558)
Hmm?

Mike (29:23.878)
you

Mike (29:32.742)
right?

Mike (29:40.262)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Nope.

Bill (29:46.83)
I said this probably a hundred times, if not a thousand times since we've been doing this, that, you know, I obviously both of us hurt people, but I mean, Dawn was one of the ones I think that, you know, emotionally I hurt her probably more than anyone, you know, in my, in my life through my entire timeframe. Um, but man, it was just, it was terrible, you know, but you know, I, as bad as that is, and it is, I, I'm super happy and glad and just elated that, I mean, Dawn and I have a wonderful relationship these days, you know.

Mike (30:00.356)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (30:16.056)
And I don't have to walk into a room and feel guilt or shame around her. I can walk into their house. I'm welcome in their home. You know? I know, which is a fucking miracle. But yeah, I mean, so I'm not that guy, but I think it was good and it was, I think it was a good thing for me to feel that because it makes me realize that,

Mike (30:16.422)
Right.

Mike (30:23.718)
Mm -hmm. Right. Well, hell, they even let me in.

Hehehehehe

Mike (30:43.174)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (30:45.07)
Now I know that I haven't forgotten what a fucking prick I was and I don't ever, I don't ever want to forget that.

Mike (30:49.574)
Right.

No, no, that's yeah, it's fucking healthy, man. Yeah. You see that? Right. And you recoil this as from a hot flame.

Bill (30:59.84)
That was from another reading too, wasn't it? Is it? Is it really? Oh shit.

Mike (31:03.91)
That's from the big book. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. We will recoil is from a hot flame talking about booze. Yeah. We just don't want to fucking. Yeah. But it applies to all this shit. Yes. We don't want to be an asshole the way we were before. We genuinely do not want to be that person, which is pretty fucking nice.

Bill (31:13.39)
Oh, gotcha.

Bill (31:27.182)
Right. Yeah, it was just, it's again, it's one of those things. And you know, another thing we've talked about that, um, you know, just you're, we're walking along, I'm walking around in my life and I sit down and watch some fucking just lighthearted, goofy movie and I caught some feelings. Didn't expect them. But, but again, I'm thankful. I'm thankful. I'm grateful to go back to what, what you said. There's, there's nothing in my life today that, um, that I feel guilt or shame over. I haven't, I haven't wronged anyone, you know, to my knowledge, we always, you know, add that.

Mike (31:43.492)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (31:52.89)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (31:57.058)
that little side note in there is we don't know. If somebody hates us and we don't know, fuck them. Then tell me. Let me fix it, you know? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it's...

Mike (32:00.708)
Right.

Mike (32:05.222)
Right. Yeah. Right. Or hate me. That's fine too. I don't need everybody to love me anymore because you know, I'm, uh, I'm not needy anymore and, uh, I know I'm, I'm solid in what I'm doing. And if you hate me because I'm doing the next right thing, well, that's your fucking problem.

Bill (32:26.03)
right? That reminded me of that commercial in the 70s for that haircare product, don't hate me because I'm beautiful. Do you remember that? Yeah, all you kids out there, look it up. It's on the internet. I'm sure it is. If you just look up, don't hate me because I'm beautiful. Yes, I don't know what the fuck it was. The 70s, a fun but horribly, horribly weird time, right?

Mike (32:34.534)
That's right. Don't hate me because I'm doing the next right thing. Of course I do.

Mike (32:42.662)
Sure.

Mike (32:50.948)
Right.

Mm -hmm.

Bill (32:55.822)
But so anything else on the reading? I think that's all the I mean the conscious contact part. We talked about that the whole obviously the higher power thing. But I think that yeah, I mean adding value that the shame little or no value and dignity in our recovery. That was one of the things I wrote down. And I think that I don't know are we are we more distinguished now? Do we have more dignity now? I mean are we are we all that in a bag of chips?

Mike (33:03.908)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:14.18)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:19.654)
I don't know about distinguished, but yeah, definitely a little more dignified than we were 14 years ago. That's for damn sure. You know, we're not shitting our beds anymore. So that's slightly more dignified.

Bill (33:24.63)
Hehehehehe

Bill (33:34.19)
Right? Yeah, that's true. Not falling down, at least not from alcohol abuse. Oh, speaking of falling down, you saw Cathy had, Cathy had surgery. So yeah, our sister is, our sister is a, she's on drugs. You know, she's on drugs right now with everyone pray for her. No, no, she just, it was a fucking dog, man. You know, I told her, I said, my God, I said,

Mike (33:42.118)
Right. Age. Right.

Mike (33:47.448)
Uh -huh.

Mike (33:52.166)
Hehehehehe

Right?

Mike (34:01.124)
Yeah.

Bill (34:03.18)
all that I said, I do fucking nothing. You know, I don't, I don't exercise. Um, I don't necessarily, I don't eat bad or anything like that. It's not like I'm slovenly or whatever, but, um, I know for a fact, I mean, there, there's things that I couldn't, I don't do. We talked about that, you know, cause I just arm strength or whatever and I'm fucking old, but, um, but I'm like, I'm like, you're fucking breakable, man. I mean, you just, you're just fucking breakable. But I mean, it was, yeah, Moxie, I guess charged or.

Mike (34:06.666)
Right.

Mike (34:14.542)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (34:20.294)
Right. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Hehehehehe

Bill (34:30.862)
Dogs out in charge pulled her and just drew her to the ground and it popped her shoulder out. And it was just that little bone around her shoulder that broke, fractured. And basically what was gonna keep happening is that shoulder's gonna keep popping out, whatever. And yeah, she went to a couple of different doctors. She was like, yep, yeah, surgery. And then she thinks she went on Monday and they're like, yeah, we got an opening on Thursday. And she's like, oh, okay. But yeah, it just fucked up.

Mike (34:36.326)
Right?

Mike (34:41.496)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mike (34:55.78)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yes, the girl needs to slow down a little bit.

Bill (35:04.302)
Yeah, and you know, the thing of it is, you know, the two things that happened to her, she was walking down, you know, this beautiful little rock waterfall walk or whatever it was when, when she broke her wrist in, wherever she was, Spain, I guess. And then, you know, this one just, you know, out, I'll get an exercise, walking her dog, you know, and I, I know, yeah, and walk, walk that dog. But, yeah, she's, I mean, she's doing, she's doing all right. But yeah, when she,

Mike (35:13.574)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I believe so.

Mike (35:22.47)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That'll teach her to exercise. Yeah.

Bill (35:33.166)
because she had the pre -appointment or whatever and then came home and literally, and she put that picture on Facebook, all that fucking medicine. I'm like, oh my God, you fucking drug addict. I'm like, Jesus Christ.

Mike (35:40.356)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (35:46.63)
Apparently you didn't see my comment. I said, Ooh, bondage gear and drugs, partay.

Bill (35:48.172)
I just -

Ha ha ha. Yep, I saw it. I saw that. I thought it was kind of funny. Yeah, because didn't you say you said one of it looked like a ballgag or something like that? Wasn't that in there? Or do you just say bondage?

Mike (35:59.174)
Yeah, it looked like there was some red circular thing. Yeah, there was some red circular thing there. It looked like a ball gag.

Bill (36:06.766)
I don't know what that was come to think of it, but maybe that was part of that. It's a kind of a big contraption. She's got her shoulder and arm in. Yeah, but anyhow, she's resting comfortably on her drugs.

Mike (36:23.94)
Good. Nice.

Bill (36:24.462)
You still there? Oh, yeah, I don't know. Are we delaying again? If.

Mike (36:28.774)
Yeah, I'm still here. We're, uh, yeah, we're big time.

Bill (36:34.414)
God, that's weird. And it was good all the way up until then. All the way up until then. Okay, so you're still hearing.

Mike (36:40.742)
You know what? Well, looking at the time, let's take a break, shut this shit down and fucking doing it.

Bill (36:46.998)
Alright, yeah, go ahead.

Mike (36:52.646)
All right. Well, stay tuned for more Sober Not Mature after these words from our sponsor.

Bill (00:01.842)
All right everyone, welcome back. Ugh, this technology issues stuff, right?

Mike (00:10.45)
Great.

Bill (00:12.562)
Um, and now, oh, you know what? Hang on one second here. That's okay. Talk amongst yourself for a minute. I'm gonna see if I, I gotta, now I just had to do something real quick to be able to pause the upload, which I'm doing right now. So we'll try that part. Pausing this. Yeah, I just did. I just did. So, okay. So I think we're both, yeah.

Mike (00:18.675)
Alright.

Mike (00:28.562)
Mm-hmm. I mean, it looks like it's already paused on my end.

Mike (00:33.891)
All right.

Bill (00:37.782)
Alright, so you know what? What the fuck man? We're just gonna keep talking and then when we delay again, because I have no faith whatsoever that it won't delay, then we'll just fucking deal with it, right?

Mike (00:46.454)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (00:49.862)
Right. Yeah. We're capable of it. We can handle situations that used to baffle us.

Bill (00:51.18)
Right, yeah.

Bill (00:55.607)
Yes, God, this is what they were talking about. Holy shit. Well

Mike (00:58.362)
Yeah, this is exactly it. This is exactly it. It's all come to this.

Bill (01:02.626)
Unbelievable! Thirteen years and eleven months into it, we're like, this is what we've been learning this entire time. That's fucking amazing.

Mike (01:11.358)
Right. Yeah, exactly. Well, neither one of us have thrown anything or smashed any equipment or anything, so, you know, for me, that's a big improvement.

Bill (01:20.402)
Yeah, that is because yeah, there's a little bit of fire going on in both of our brains I know when this when this shit happens because it again, it's fuck it. It never mind. It doesn't make any sense Nobody else wants to hear it say again that it doesn't make any sense. So Okay, so the other thing that happened over in it Just this crossed my mind that I post every year. Well, my 14 years ago is when my dad died So yeah March 14th of 2010 my sobriety date is April 18th

Mike (01:26.23)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:31.507)
No.

Bill (01:50.186)
And basically from the day my dad died until I hit detox on the on the 17th I was whatever drunk is I was 17 not just above that so And you know, I thought about it. I know we both talked about this before but One of the things we I know we talked about this time of year I do and I don't sit back and you know in with incense burning and shit like that and reflect quote-unquote but

Mike (02:03.293)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (02:19.733)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (02:19.986)
Um, I really do, you know, from these, because these, those last 30, 30 days, technically 33 days, you know, before, before I went into detox, um, I, there's easily the darkest days of my entire life, you know, and, and I look back at it, the reasons behind it and, and I know why, you know, I mean, I, I was 41 years old. I had no coping skills.

I didn't know how to deal with tragedy and death. I didn't know how to deal with life. And then that's just me when and if I wasn't drinking, you know, and then throw alcohol on top of that. And then on top of that, putting alcohol on top of the fact that I couldn't deal with the stuff, you know, which is, you know, why I'm here today. But yeah, it was just, it was crazy, you know, and I think about it every year, you know, but for-

Mike (02:49.128)
Mm.

Mike (02:54.292)
Right.

Mike (03:01.519)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (03:12.042)
I don't know for anyone out there that hasn't listened and I, in my story, I don't remember even that my story that I told in that first episode is so short. I don't even remember how much I talked about that part of it, but we've had bits and pieces. I mean, both of our ends over those last 30 days and stuff. But I think the biggest key was is that, you know, I got the phone call because the woman that my dad was living with basically called him. She could have easily been called his wife. They weren't married, but they had McGettar.

Mike (03:27.926)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (03:41.134)
together for 20 some years but so she called me and uh yeah oh easily yeah definitely um whatever it was midnight one o'clock in the morning and I had actually shut off my phone and was gonna go to bed but uh I pretty sure Derek was there that night actually I know he was um you know I get the phone call and I don't want to do I can't get old Kathy blah I'm a fucking wreck this and that so we get all the stuff worked out but I mean literally um I mean I all I did then because I had no way whatsoever to cope with I just

Mike (03:43.23)
Yeah. Common law. Right.

Bill (04:10.082)
fucking drank, you know, more. I was already a fucking raging alcoholic, you know, but, um, you know, just completely, completely lost my mind, you know, and, um, you know, again, I joke about it, you know, taking the detox and taking to the Keating Center and all that stuff and I was, um, you know, but. You know, thankfully for whatever reason, you know, got to that point where, whether it was a moment of clarity or what I thought it was weakness at that point or unloading and kind of being honest for once and, um, all those things needed to happen.

Mike (04:14.731)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (04:26.582)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (04:39.606)
you know, and the other thing that I talked about, and who knows, because you and I have talked through this thing, through this point on here too, you know, my thought was always that there was nothing else that would have gotten me sober that I know of, at least at that time, who knows, you know, if I would have lived, you know, I mean, if that wouldn't have happened, I probably just would have went on, that progression would have been stretched out, because I don't think I, there was nothing else that was really gonna make me lose my mind like that, you know, and.

Mike (04:55.774)
Right.

Mike (05:07.25)
Right, well you were handling shit up to that point. That was sarcasm, folks.

Bill (05:10.922)
Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, not really, you know, but, you know, I was. Right.

Mike (05:17.337)
But in your mind you were, so yeah right, there was no problem, so why would you admit there's a problem?

Bill (05:23.382)
Right, you know, it's kind of like the, I don't know, there's like movies that, you know, they, this one, what was it, road trip, you know, they jumped the car and all the wheels fall off and this and that, they're like, I don't know, it wasn't so bad, they're walking away and then the car fucking explodes. So what I was is I was the car sitting there with no wheels on it for probably a number of, at least months, if not years. And when my dad died, the car exploded. You know, and yeah, so.

Mike (05:42.87)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (05:50.762)
I don't know, you know, at the time, and I've been very open and honest about it, that I had no desire to quit drinking. I had never tried doing this thing before. Had never tried to moderate. The worst I said to myself, or the best I said to myself was, which we uncovered on here, was that I decided about four or five years prior to that, that I wasn't as bad as what my...

dad was when he got sober. So that was when I was 36, because that's when he got sober. But beyond that, I knew that I would have to, you know, probably quote unquote, get my shit together, you know, calm my evil ways or straighten myself out or something at some point. But, you know, I did not, I did. Right. But it wasn't even, and that's the, that's the weird part. I never, I never said, you know, I'm gonna have to do this, but yeah, I'm not doing it today type of thing. I never even got to that point, which is

Mike (06:19.438)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (06:35.102)
Not today!

Bill (06:47.298)
Just the level of delusion that I had, knowing that I needed to fix, but not even saying that I'm not going to, just kind of like, I need to fix this, but then keep going, you know? It's just fucking weird, you know? But yeah, I mean, it just did say it's a humbling, this is always a humbling time of year, in a really, really good way. You know, and that's...

Mike (06:56.906)
Right. Yeah.

Bill (07:13.066)
One of the reasons that I don't want to say the only reason that I like getting together for anniversaries, but one of the main reasons is just it is. It's the one thing that I know both you and I, you know, with the exception Founders Day is a celebration, but you know, it's a true celebration outside of the Father's Day's and the birthdays and the Christmases and whatever, all those things are fine. They're fun, they're nice, you know, but it is, it's a huge accomplishment. And I'm proud of, you know, where both of us are at these days, you know.

Mike (07:43.382)
No, absolutely. Yeah, definitely, man. You know, it's an achievement unlike a birthday.

Bill (07:49.742)
Yeah, once again, other than both of our dads just leaving it in, you know, you know, we actually had to do the work on this one and have to continue to do the work. And yeah, it's just it never ends, you know, and it's not a bad thing because, I don't know, you know, I sit down, it's funny every morning when I get up, and I've talked about this plenty of times, but my morning, my workday mornings, you know, they...

Mike (07:56.47)
Exactly.

Bill (08:18.934)
that my timing runs the same. I mean, within minutes, you know, three to three to three to four minutes on either side. And it's crazy because the even though I'm reading the same amount of things and yeah, I go on Facebook and I go on Instagram and do certain things that I pad myself just in case, you know, as far as time, but it just it never fucking matters. It's within five minutes on either side every single day. It's the same thing. And I forget who was maybe it was a

Mike (08:22.766)
Oh yeah, me too.

Mike (08:42.748)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (08:48.31)
movie or a podcast that I was, I don't know, listening to something where they were talking about routine and it was, it wasn't a sober thing that I was listening to, but this individual is talking about that, you know, about how much they thrive having, even if it's crazy and a little bit chaotic at times or whatever it is, it's how they thrive on a routine, which we've talked about, right?

Mike (09:05.974)
Hmm.

Mike (09:11.59)
Oh, definitely. Yeah. Structure, man. That's, it's definitely, uh, what gets me through the day, man. I mean, you're talking about, I walk out of my bedroom at 19 after every morning. It just, it happens, you know, if I'm, if I'm moving slow, it's 21 after, but pretty much it's, I look at the clock as I walk out the door and it's 19 minutes after I've been awake for 19 minutes. I've done my readings. I've smoked a cigarette. I'm going to go down and brush my teeth and put on my clothes and go to work.

Bill (09:23.726)
Hahaha

Mike (09:41.458)
Yup, every fucking day. Yup.

Bill (09:45.211)
Right. Yeah. And you know, for me, I get up whatever time I get up from, you know, I get up, I go start the coffee pot, you know, I'll go brush my teeth, put my contacts in, go down, grab my coffee, do that sort of thing. You know, obviously use the restroom. And then by the time I sit down to do my readings every morning, it's between, you know, 5.19 or whatever it is, between 19 and 21 minutes, same deal. I haven't done my readings yet.

you know, but that's where the timeframe is. And then I know for a fact, what I've said before, that, you know, it takes 20 minutes out of my day to do my readings from, you know, 20 after whatever it is until 22, that's how long it takes me to do my readings and my prayers. Then I go outside and like, now I'm not smoking anymore, but you know, I'll hit my vape out there and then by the time I get back in, you know, it's quarter two, whatever it is. So that's 45 minutes. And then I do Instagram, I do this, and then I shave and get in the shower.

Mike (10:18.784)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (10:39.97)
By the time I'm all said and done, I get done at the same time every morning when I'm kind of like getting dressed and ready to do whatever. It's weird, but it's very comforting. Because, I mean, I've said it before. We were talking about just a few weeks ago that, if I have to be someplace, all I need to know is what time do I have to be there? And I give myself usually a 15 minute pad to get there or window,

Mike (10:47.51)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (10:52.586)
Right?

Mike (11:04.356)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (11:09.99)
a place early just in case and then I back it up from there. You know, do I have to drive there? That takes a half hour to back that up. I know how long it takes me to do this, that, and the other and plus give myself a little bit of time for just in case moments. What if some shit happens overnight? I get a weird email about something. I gotta do something. I don't know what that something is, but I always give myself a little bit of extra time and you know then sometimes when I when I back that you know that time up I'm like, fuck man, I gotta get up it.

Mike (11:11.058)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (11:38.182)
some ungodly fucking hour but oh well, you know?

Mike (11:38.206)
Hehehehehe

Mike (11:41.738)
Right. Yeah, exactly. We have to do what we have to do.

Bill (11:46.466)
Right, yeah, exactly. You know, that's the thing, you know, no matter what, man, those readings are getting done, those prayers are getting done, and you know, I'm gonna take that time every fucking morning, you know, to do those things, and it is, it's, I don't know, I just don't know what I would do, well, I guess I know what I would do without a routine, right? Right?

Mike (12:06.942)
Right, yeah, exactly, get loaded. There's absolutely, I'm 100% guaranteed for sure that's gonna happen. May not happen today, may not happen tomorrow, but it will happen and it's gonna get ugly real fast.

Bill (12:10.562)
Right.

Bill (12:21.782)
Right? Well, and that's why as soon as that started to come out of my mouth, I'm like, well, of course you fucking know what's gonna happen. You fucking dumb ass. I don't know what's gonna happen if I stop doing my routine. Yeah, you do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (12:27.858)
Yep.

Mike (12:35.196)
Yeah. Thankfully we've had enough examples. Right. Exactly. What happened? I stopped. Well, fuck. Guess we can't stop. Yep.

Mike (13:03.018)
Mm.

Bill (13:04.284)
Right? Yeah,

Mike (13:08.218)
Yeah.

Bill (13:13.11)
but not enough and it's never gonna be enough. We always wanna have more type of thing. But I'm proud, I know you are too. It's proud of every one of those fucking days. Even if they went smooth, the days matter and time matters and we had to do the work every one of those days, right?

Mike (13:14.81)
Mm. Right.

Mike (13:33.479)
Absolutely.

Bill (13:35.842)
Yeah, so this just popped into my head. So can I bitch for a minute about a Don Sobriety thing? No, I mean, if you happen to say, no, we ain't got time for this tonight because I got this thing to talk about, which ain't nobody got no time for that. So I don't know if I, I'm sure I talked about it on here. I got all my, everything in my life, with the exception of what's in the room that I'm in right now is in a storage unit in.

Mike (13:42.167)
You're gonna anyway, so go ahead

Mike (13:49.056)
Nobody got time for that.

Bill (14:02.878)
in Germantown, Wisconsin. I emptied out my apartment. I got rid of a lot of shit. And basically in a 10 by 15, you know, storage unit, I've got all my all my life's possessions, which I scaled down a lot because I'm like, I don't need all this fucking garbage, you know, I just don't need shit anymore. But when I when I first set up that, that storage unit, which is before I came down here, so I think in April or May of 22, you know, so you figure, I don't know, year and a half

Mike (14:16.892)
Right.

Bill (14:32.862)
at the time I set it up or actually got cut them up on two years now. Yeah, fuck. I know, isn't that weird? I just thought as soon as I said that, I'm like, fuck. But to begin with, the unit that I rented was 80 bucks and I got the first two or three months for 50% off some deal that they had, which is great. It was fine. And then it was like 80 bucks and then it was 85 and then they popped it to 90. And then it went to a hundred. And then I get this by latest invoice

Mike (14:34.614)
That'd be two years, April or May would be two years.

Bill (15:01.234)
know they take it out on the first of every month. It's just I've got a it's an automatic debit off of one of my credit cards and um it's like oh you know you got a new thing on there and the insurance blah blah. I have renter's insurance still and it covers the storage unit you know but whatever my policy flipped over I didn't think about it it's I still have it so like oh they're going to charge they charged me the 15 bucks and I'm like I got it before

Mike (15:14.742)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (15:29.994)
working today so I called and talking to her she's like no she's like we waived that you know for this month but yeah we'll need your insurance documents whatever and I'm like but the $15 is on there and she's like that's the rent increase I'm like are you are you serious and I said I'm like a hundred and fifteen dollars now and I'm like do you realize I'm like literally when I started with that unit it was 80 bucks you know I'm like that's

Mike (15:41.508)
Ah.

Mike (15:55.739)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (15:59.29)
almost you know 50% almost well fuck 100% no not 100% 50% you know I'm like that's kind of extreme she's like well you know we were taken over by another company and then this I'm like but fucking still and I'm like you know what I said you know what and she's like well I can have the regional manager call I'm like you know what I don't care if you want to pass along my information but I'm like I'm busy during the day it's not worth my time to try to schedule

Mike (16:04.352)
Mm.

Mike (16:13.916)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (16:29.186)
If he wants to call me, I don't care. Let him call me because what's he gonna do, you know, type of thing. But I'm like, I just, and I've been thinking recently about I think I could scale down anyhow. That was a thought in my brain. But I'm like, now, I just told Leigh, I said, this has nothing to do with you. I said, I know it's the company, the new company, blah, blah. But I said, I just don't like being in a position where I don't have a choice and you guys have all my stuff. And I'm like, what am I gonna do? I said, yeah, I could move it.

Mike (16:33.621)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:41.974)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:54.572)
Right.

Bill (16:58.614)
But I'm like, it's climate control. That's nice. It's secure. It's, and I'm like, yeah, you know? And I mean, so anyhow, I talked to her a little bit about possibly getting a different unit. And I said, can I get one? What's the cost? I might be able to cut the cost down a little bit, but I'd have to get rid of a couple of things, which I want to do anyhow, but I'm like, oh, fuck me. It just, it did. I just kind of felt like, you know, just one of those things where, okay, here you are. We're going to bend you over. We're going to fuck you in the ass because we can. Because really.

Mike (17:01.014)
Mm hmm. It's there.

Mike (17:25.462)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (17:28.838)
The majority of people that put their things in storage, they have to do it. It's not like, oh, I'm just going to put some extra stuff in here just until I don't feel like it anymore and then, I don't know, then maybe I'll take it out. No, you do it for a purpose. And I just, I don't know.

Mike (17:32.394)
Right?

Mike (17:45.258)
Right, yeah. I believe that's called powerlessness.

Bill (17:49.107)
It's just.

Oh yeah, and again, you know, when it comes to, maybe that's a great example, you know, of this. I don't question my powerlessness for the most part. I mean, I gotta qualify that a little bit, you know, for the most part when it comes to this thing. You know, I get it, I recognize it more when, you know, dealing with a sobriety thing, but I don't know when it comes down to just that, again, $80 to $115. $35 a month in two fucking years. I mean, ugh, it's just

Mike (18:01.888)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (18:21.858)
fucking crazy. But I don't know, because she's like, well, you know, when you're ready, we don't look at this. And I'm like, it's gonna be a couple of months until I can actually spend enough time up there, you know, where I can I can do it because

Mike (18:37.767)
And it's fuck me, man. Fine. Here's your 15 bucks, Mary.

Bill (18:43.114)
Yeah, yeah, and that's, I thought about the movie Liar, did you ever see that with Jim Carrey? He's an attorney.

Mike (18:50.077)
Um, yeah, I think I was drunk.

Bill (18:53.226)
Yeah, well, that's surprising, right? Yeah, that was. That was late 90s. So yeah, of course you were. Why wouldn't you be, right? But yeah, he's got that Mercedes and they impound his car and he comes out and there's a scratch on it. He's going through all this different stuff about he's going to sue it. And he's like, you know what I'm going to do? He goes, nothing. I'm just going to take it up the ass. You know, and I'm like, that's probably what I know, at least for the next couple of months, because I think I'm going to try to, you know, find a place in Airbnb somewhere in...

Mike (18:55.207)
Right.

Mike (18:58.646)
Of course I was, right.

Mike (19:10.164)
Mm-hmm. Heh-

Bill (19:21.51)
Wisconsin. I got my eye on a couple of things because, oh, Kimmy and Brian signed up OLLI for soccer. Yeah, they got this little thing where they, you know, they're teaching them. It's kind of a cool thing. You know, I mean, they're not going to be skilled at two years old, but that's when they start them, you know? But I'm like, that's a great thing, get them in organized sports, learn them, the coordination and just the teamwork type of thing. And

Mike (19:23.539)
Right.

Mike (19:29.399)
Mmm.

Mike (19:38.397)
Right.

Mike (19:41.78)
Yeah.

Bill (19:48.054)
you know, but they start in sometime like towards the end of June and then goes through July and Kimmy's like, Oh, maybe you could be up here at times. I'm like, I will definitely I want to see, you know, the Saturday things like that. So I'm like, fuck, you know.

Mike (20:00.982)
I wanna see two year olds try to play soccer. That's gonna be hilarious.

Bill (20:06.074)
Yeah, I know. Well, I told her when I was in high school, was I in high school then? Yeah. I reffed youth soccer and it was probably kids that were, I don't know, five, six, seven years old, but it was basically just this wherever the ball was, it looked like a little tornado of kids running around the field. It was actually pretty funny. It was impossible to ref these kids, you know, but it was kind of fun. But so anyhow, so it

Mike (20:19.177)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (20:24.33)
Hehe

Mike (20:28.98)
Right.

Bill (20:34.698)
June until I'm going to be up there, you know, where I wouldn't have to drive six hours just to clean out a fucking storage unit. So, but I don't know. I'm glad you said the word powerless, because that makes me, you know what, seriously, as fucked up as it may sound, that actually makes me feel a little bit better because, you know, it, I don't know, it clarifies the anger that I have, you know, because it is, you know, and I'm not going to go fucking broke over

Mike (20:39.754)
Sure. Right. Yeah.

Mike (20:47.382)
Heheheheheheh

Mike (20:58.955)
Sure.

Bill (21:04.098)
The $35, even if it went from 80 to 115, $35 a month is not gonna break me. It's just fucking not, but I don't wanna spend another $15 on a fucking storage unit if I don't have to.

Mike (21:10.75)
great.

Mike (21:17.182)
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. For the exact same service, the exact same thing that was less than two years ago is now $35 more. Why? Because they can.

Bill (21:31.026)
And I know what it is. I mean this company I'm sure what they what they're doing They're going around the country and they're buying up these small storage companies because you know you think about it from a business standpoint With the exception of you know that the building itself whether you build it or lease it or whatever it is I mean this building is fucking huge. I mean, it's big. It's a warehouse building That's all you know set up with the units nice But you know it is climate controlled so there's

There's the lights, the heating, the cooling, all that stuff. I get it. There's the maintenance on whatever. I get all that stuff. There's a cost to it. But once you get all that shit in there, you're just taking in a bunch of money every month. It's not like in an apartment where you've got the toilet clogs, you've got to replace appliances. So that's something being a landlord that way. So I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it's a very lucrative business. And especially,

Mike (22:00.692)
Uh-huh.

Mike (22:10.771)
Yeah, right.

Bill (22:27.146)
If they're going around acquiring all these companies, you know, hey, an extra five, 10, 15 bucks spread out over, I don't know, 3000, 10,000 people, you know, that pays a couple of mortgage payments. I think we're in the wrong business. What do you do for a living again? You drive a truck and I collect money. So, yeah, fuckers, fuckers. But anyhow, so, yeah, that was you know what? Thank you for bringing that around to a sobriety thing, because you did when you when you brought up the powerlessness.

Mike (22:38.266)
Yep.

Mike (22:44.714)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Heh heh heh.

Mike (22:55.881)
Yep. And all our affairs, man. It's useful everywhere. God damn it.

Bill (22:59.415)
I know.

Right? I know, I know, it just, still, it pisses me off, but seriously, I'm glad you brought that up. I actually feel a little bit of weight off of me from calling it, it's just that, fucking, I'm powerless. I'm powerless over that 15 fucking dollars, so.

Mike (23:14.367)
Right.

Mike (23:17.606)
accepting the things you cannot change.

Bill (23:21.042)
Right, exactly. So one of the things I had written down was kind of ties in with, this I wrote down, I don't know when, but I wrote down wanting to talk about the promises again. And I don't remember if I wrote it down because we were coming up on our anniversaries or not, but I don't know. It's just something what I thought would be a good topic there. Are the promises in? Oh yeah, we went through this last time. Do you got your big book there or no?

Mike (23:38.486)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (23:48.49)
Hell no.

Bill (23:50.906)
Um, what, uh, I wonder if we would be easier to find them on the interwebs, huh?

Mike (23:56.498)
doing it right now. I am. Here we go. And here we are. You ready? All right. Um, let's see here. Oh, these aren't numbered. Let me, let me go back here. This is one numbered. Here we go. This is better. La la la. The 12 promises of alcoholics and anonymous. One.

Bill (23:58.09)
Are you? Okay.

Well, in the

Cool, I am, let's go. Look at that, thank you, interweb.

Mike (24:25.578)
We are painstaking about this phase in our development. We will be amazed before we were halfway through. That's not one of the hang on. This is fucking hang on. Hang on.

Bill (24:39.534)
Ha ha ha!

Mike (24:41.27)
Stupid internet. A promises, A promises. There it is. All right, I got him better.

Bill (24:48.162)
Got them now? Cool. Okay, let me reinstate my boom. Boom.

Mike (24:57.014)
This is blurry. Wait a minute. And I even have my glasses on. God damn. Internet, internet, internet. This looks. All right, here we go. We're going to new, yeah, here we go. I can read this one sort of. We're going to new a new freedom and new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

Bill (24:57.731)
Ha ha!

Bill (25:02.486)
Hahaha!

Bill (25:10.125)
We good?

Bill (25:13.654)
Hehehehe

Mike (25:29.071)
No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.

fear of people and economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize for if we work them.

Bill (26:12.6)
haha

Bill (26:23.894)
So the reason I wanted to bring that up is that, you know, if anyone is, so two things, if people who listen to us, which I know there are plenty of people that are not AA based, you know, so maybe the promises, these are from Alcoholics Anonymous, obviously, and that sort of thing. They're from the big book. But even if you're not, you know, part of that thing, you know, that we do, we've talked about all those. Sometimes we joke about and, you know, read off some of those things.

Mike (26:38.846)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Bill (26:51.382)
I don't want to say as punch lines, but kind of, you know, as we're going through. But the coolest part is, is that, you know, we were told to begin with it and the book tells us that these things will come, will come true. And even if you're not part of a 12-step program or AA or anything like that, go ahead, you know, do what Mike did and go to five different websites and then look up the promises. And then if you, if you read them. And I think

Mike (26:53.662)
Hmm.

Mike (27:16.032)
Hehe

Bill (27:21.458)
I could be wrong, but I think if you read them, even if you're not, again, an AA person, I think you'll find that those things are happening for you once you've been sober for a bit. And I remember, I don't remember if I was back in Wisconsin at that time or whatever it was, but it was a meeting that I was in, and just one of the meetings that they, because some meetings, again, for everyone out there, they'll read certain things like how it works and the promises and whatever.

They were reading the promises and then it said, you know, we will know serenity or we will find it. What's the serenity thing? And we will know peace have a serenity.

Mike (27:57.39)
Uh, and I actually found the good one printed by the Cleveland office of alcoholics, anonymous, uh, they're numbered properly. And, uh, yeah, anyway, uh, actually it's three and four. We will comprehend the word serenity and four. We will know peace.

Bill (28:10.494)
So I think it's three, right?

Bill (28:21.17)
Okay, so I was in a meeting one time and when they read those things and actually said, I will know peace, it just, same thing, I had this almost like this warm relaxing feeling that came over me and I don't know if I was two years sober, three years, six months, whatever it was, I was like, that was really fucking cool, you know? Because I didn't, we talked about this, neither one of us to my recollection.

Mike (28:42.724)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (28:49.942)
didn't have these flash moments or these people call their god moments and all that shit. We get light bulb moments where our head keeps popping out of our asses and all those sort of things. But that was like the first, I don't know, physical reaction I had to any part of this program. And I'm like, fuck man. And I started really listening as those are being read in different meetings and just paying attention to them. And the only one that still kind of gets me every once in a while is the...

Mike (28:53.247)
Right.

Mike (28:59.21)
Sure.

Mike (29:11.851)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (29:19.49)
fear of economic this and that and blah blah. I mean I try not to worry about finances, but I mean we've all got to be mindful of them. Well during my job search that was a hard time as I'm running out of money and running up credit card debt and that sort of thing. Not to have a slight fear of economic security. But I...

Mike (29:22.164)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:29.878)
Sure.

Bill (29:47.11)
I went back to everything that we were taught, you know, having that faith and having that hope and continuing to do the work and all those sort of things. And yeah, then shit starts to fall into place again. Imagine that, you know, because had I had my old ideas and mentality, whatever debt that I'm in now, not only would be worse, but I would just be a fucking mess someplace, you know?

Mike (30:02.23)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (30:12.03)
So, I don't know, I just, I love the promises and I just thought they'd be a fun thing to kind of talk through. And I'm not gonna ask you what your favorite promise or anything is, but I don't know. I mean, was there any of those that just like always stick out to you that you liked? And the serenity and peace one still, I mean, kind of gets me all the time, but any ones that like really, I don't know, jump out at you all the time?

Mike (30:23.511)
Hehe

Mike (30:35.498)
Well, I mean, you know, um, we read them every week at my home group. Um, and, um, I mean, my favorite might, I do have a favorite one actually. It's a, no matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. You know, that's my favorite one. They all that, that we started off this thing talking about the shame and the guilt and looking back at our past and all that shit, um, and we

talked about it on here plenty of times, you know, that shit has value now because we could use it to help other people. Um, so it's not, again, that's, that's another great way not to have that, that shame anymore because yes, it was horrible rotten shit that we did, but we get to use it now to help other people go, Hey man, you know, we've all done it. It's okay. You know, just don't do it anymore. And, you know,

But we can welcome them into this thing and let them know that they're not as bad as they think they are. Because we were all that bad. And now we're not because we do the fucking work. So come on in, do the work with us and it'll be OK.

Bill (31:43.074)
Yeah, and even if we're working with somebody or talking with somebody and they talk about some shit, I'm like, well, I never did that, but I know a guy. I can tell you the story and I can tell you where he's at now also, and all of us. And it always makes me go back to the point of what we talk about all the time. And anytime that you and I like go on a podcast or something like that, we talk about the fact that I never did drugs or anything like that. We talked about it plenty of times on here.

Mike (31:46.924)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:51.638)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:56.296)
Right?

Mike (32:11.481)
Weirdo.

Bill (32:13.054)
I know, but the fact that I used to say that I only drank, I would qualify, and I stopped doing that years ago because it doesn't fucking matter. I did the same amount of damage to myself. I just about killed myself. I ruined my fucking life. I blew up every other relationship, whether it was a needle or a shot glass. We're all in the same boat. And if somebody comes to me and they're like, well, I did this, and I spent all my money in.

Mike (32:16.662)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (32:39.306)
in 30 days because I was a fucking heroin addict. Well, I didn't do that. It took longer. But I know a guy. I know plenty of guys that did that. Yeah, but you didn't rob stores. You didn't beat up people. Well, I know plenty of fucking people that did. None of them are proud of it, but they did it. And this is where they are now. So yeah, I mean, we've got plenty of no bad examples.

Mike (32:45.842)
Mm-hmm. Great.

Mike (32:53.494)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (32:58.922)
Mm-hmm. Yup.

Bill (33:08.822)
these fucked up individuals that we call our dear friends did some really fucked up things. All of us did, me included. And now we all get to sit around and play poker and have fun and that's the other thing. I just thought about that too is that we never, we never talk about as a group, think about like when we get together for poker, as a group we'd never sit around and talk about the old days and how we did, except for somebody makes a side comment about whatever.

Mike (33:12.33)
Hehehehe.

Uh huh. Right.

Mike (33:31.051)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:36.446)
No. Sure.

Bill (33:39.062)
You know, but it's just a bunch of fucking people getting together with, just happens to be no booze involved, and we're just a bunch of people, right?

Mike (33:43.149)
Yeah.

Mike (33:47.262)
Yeah, we are right. And, and, and again, living in the now and enjoying being together and playing a game and hanging out and yeah, you know, we don't have to and war stories are just that, you know, and thankfully we're not at war anymore, so we don't have to rehash that shit.

Bill (34:06.231)
Right. You know, it's so funny too is that there's so many times that we have what we have guests on, and especially if it's people that we don't know really well. And then when you go through your whole thing about, yeah, we all know how to fuck up our lives and fuck up this. We don't want to hear about it. But the thing that people miss is when they say we want to hear a little bit, you know, you can qualify, tell us a little bit about where you got to. And there's we've had a few guests that they skip everything. They don't sell anything.

Mike (34:15.742)
Right?

Mike (34:19.389)
No, bro.

Mike (34:26.431)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (34:33.738)
I know.

Bill (34:33.95)
about what they did. And it doesn't fucking matter because, you know, that we end up talking to them for an hour, an hour and a half and have a wonderful conversation. And we didn't have to hear about all this shit because what happens is some of these things, you know, they'll be telling their story about this and old, but back when I was doing this, which is kind of how kind of how we all do it, you know, which is, which is nice, you know.

Mike (34:37.215)
Mm-mm.

Mike (34:50.262)
Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We don't, we don't have to. And again, yes, there are degrees to how bad we all got, but we all got bad. That's the whole point. And, and we got out of it. That's the whole fucking point.

Bill (35:04.042)
Right?

Bill (35:09.638)
Right. Yeah, exactly. And there was just thinking about that with guests. We get we get approached by two different people recently, I was in a email conversation with this, with this one lady, and again, that's a, it's an alcohol and drug treatment center, something like that. And just questions back and forth and got to the point, oh, it's like right to the point where I'm like, ask one more question, did whatever, and then, you know, I didn't hear didn't hear from her. You know, same thing as we always say, it's

Mike (35:25.918)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (35:35.734)
fuck a man, I didn't want to be on here. I'm not fucking chasing people anymore. I stopped doing that, I stopped doing that at least a year ago. And again, unless it's friends of ours, then we'll chase the Al's and the Wes's that we want to come on, or the Michaels and the Megans and all those people. But, and then there was another one. This one could be interesting too. Well, once I, again, it stalled now for a day only, but we're going back and forth in emails. But I think it's another one, treatment center, but.

Mike (35:45.965)
Right.

Bill (36:05.17)
I always ask the same questions. How did you hear about us? Because we all always wanna know. Have you listened to us? We're not for everyone. And then depending on who the individual is, because we get a lot of these third parties, these assistants and all those things, contacting us, we had guests on like that. And I'm like, okay, so is this person, because if I can't get an idea of the person sober,

Mike (36:06.646)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (36:13.296)
Hehehehehe

Mike (36:20.599)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mike (36:33.494)
Mm hmm. Right.

Bill (36:33.79)
Is this person in recovery or not? Not that it's a deal breaker, but because the person's in the sober community doing sober things or doing things with the sober community. But I'm like, we just want to know. So then she goes into this whole thing. She's like, well, we can have him on and then brother that helped out, he's sober. And then this other guy they know. And I'm like, honestly, that sounds like three different episodes. All would be great. Let's start with him first. If this works for you, let me know. And then maybe the brother and then maybe this other person. This.

Mike (36:40.563)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (36:56.857)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (37:01.754)
load of this group of three people, seriously, I think could be good, but they'd be good in the succession. But then, you know, I emailed over a couple of days and then again, didn't hear anything from her today. I'm like, well, fuck her. She didn't come back. I'm like, I don't know. But it same thing. It sounded like they've listened to our episodes, but I don't know. I just, I figured that if I want to make sure that we've said it before, make sure that people know what they're getting into. And I don't mean that in a way that, Ooh, we're bad boys, blah, blah.

Mike (37:04.982)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (37:18.585)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (37:28.17)
Mm-mm. Yeah.

Bill (37:31.172)
We're different than a lot of the other podcasts out there. We just are.

Mike (37:33.266)
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're, we're us and that's what we are. And that's what we're going to continue to be. And yeah, right.

Bill (37:36.662)
Yeah.

Bill (37:56.052)
Right? Yeah.

Mike (38:11.534)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (38:12.03)
You know, not really bending to what other people may want, need or whatever. And, you know, how freeing has it been to be able to say no, you know, sometimes to people. And, right. And it's never in a rude way. It's just that, yeah, I just don't think that person is going to fit well. And, you know, I just, I don't want to, I like the fact that we do that. I just know that there's so many people out there that, I'm like, there was this other one that I didn't even, again, get to the point of.

Mike (38:19.578)
Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's not going to work. No, thanks.

Mike (38:35.286)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (38:41.806)
bringing it up to you because you know this same thing this guy I'm telling him like email me you gotta email me he's like well can't you just pass all this stuff on the mic from messages and I said one way or the other I need your email address because that's how we send out links he's like well he goes I'm in Japan or something like that can't send an email and I'm like okay he's like well send one right he's like send one to me and see if it works I emailed him that's like

Mike (38:53.982)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Mike (39:00.63)
That that yeah, because they don't have the Internet in Japan.

Mike (39:10.27)
Uh huh.

Bill (39:10.854)
But then it was kind of like I'm seeing this because I looked him up and you know, it just, he's been, it's been a couple of years and there's a whole side note to that too. But you know, it's like somebody telling, just getting on to tell the same story in all these different places. And I'm like, you know what? I don't know. I don't know. It was something maybe we should talk, we could have talked about if he would have kept going, but it'd be nice. I don't want to be, it's kind of like when we used to go and there'd be certain people

Mike (39:14.757)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (39:39.318)
when you'd walk into a meeting, you're like, oh, fuck it, Joe's Leeing again. Because you know what, you're gonna hear this, literally, word for word, the same Lee that you heard, you know, a month ago, because the person's not unique. You know? And I just, I've heard other, I've heard the same people on different podcasts, and I've heard the same, literally, word for word, the same even like jokes that come out of their mouth. And I'm like, I don't know, that kind of seemed like what this guy was, and I don't know, be nice to have something.

Mike (39:43.254)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Bill (40:09.706)
It'd be nice to have something that's a little bit, I don't know, unique, you know? More of a conversation than just some

Mike (40:09.844)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:14.718)
Yeah, right. More original and organic. That's yeah, that's what we're doing here. Exactly. We don't want you to fucking read your script, man. If we want to read your script, we'll go read it somewhere. Right.

Bill (40:26.204)
haha

Right? Yeah, we'll go listen to the other seven podcasts that you did where you said the same thing. So, all right. Anything else on, how did I even know we were just, oh yeah, I was bitching about storage, wasn't I? Or what were we talking about? Oh, Promises. Oh shit, I forgot we were on the Promises. Ha ha ha. Ha ha.

Mike (40:45.014)
Mm-hmm. We'd moved on. Yeah, we have. And you know what? Guess what? We're delaying like a motherfucker again.

Bill (40:55.915)
I know I could tell but I was trying to push through it. So anything else on the promises? Are we good on that? I know you had your favorite promise in there but anything else on the promises?

Mike (41:10.686)
Nope, not a damn thing.

Bill (41:14.37)
God, that was, that was a long one. That was a really long one. All right. Okay, so I'm gonna pick a topic here and then maybe if we just kind of talk through some of these things, then the delay won't seem that bad. But this came up, I don't know if it came up in a podcast where I was watching something. So when you were still drinking, this is just kind of a fun weird one if you had a story about it. Did you ever misplace your car?

Mike (41:19.03)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (41:41.494)
while you were drunk or like come out of some place in the morning and just like not know where your, where your fucking car was.

Mike (41:52.63)
That seems like I have, but I can't remember.

Bill (42:02.976)
Wow, OK. Yeah, that was that was probably that was probably four seconds on that delay. So yeah, that was that was a tough one. So.

Bill (42:14.07)
I don't know, do we, do you wanna keep trying to, should we keep trying to fumble through this one or do you wanna, do we wanna try to get onto something else or no?

Mike (42:25.61)
I did it's fucking annoying as hell. Yeah, there's like five six seconds between us. Yeah, that doesn't work very well for this thing

Bill (42:34.774)
Right. Exactly. OK, so everyone, we probably had more to talk about. And I don't even know with these two different pieces that we had in here, but possibly we had more to talk about. But I'll tell you what, you know what? Possibly we'll have all this fixed by next week. So, yeah, I think I think this delay is going to annoy the fuck out of both of us and probably anyone that's trying to fucking listen. So, Mike, I think it's time for you to wrap this fucking thing up. What do you say?

Mike (43:07.562)
I say absolutely. I say thank you for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. As I always be kind to each other, be good to each other, do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody that you did it. Now it's time kids, it's time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate.

Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (43:49.186)
So that was weird. You were kind of cutting out at the end there too. God, it was actually like delaying you while you were giving your statement there. So, all right. So hopefully I think you're still there for us to say goodbye. But yeah, kids, we're going to do our best to try to figure out whatever the fuck this problem is with this goddamn fucking delay. And yeah, as you can tell, it's probably irritating both of us. But you know what?

Mike, brother, I will talk to you soon. I love you brother. And yeah, I'll say my goodbyes. Goodbye.

Mike (44:22.618)
And I love you too, and 14 hours later, goodbye to you. Bye.