SoberNotMature - Episode 109 (Nut For A Head?)

Bill (00:02.464)
Alright everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Buture. And hey, the shitter's new, right? Did you get a new shitter over there? Yeah, I thought about that. So yeah, we were, well we had a delay here, or a delay in our start time a couple of minutes ago, because there may be another technology issue in play here, so just let everyone fucking know right off the bat.

Mike (00:11.967)
I got a new shitter today and it's not even full.

Bill (00:30.304)
Neither one of us know what the hell is going on. We check with our internet companies, we clean out our computers, we do all this different shit. Neither one of us know what the fucking problem is. But anyhow, so yeah, so Mike was, I don't know, you had an appointment to get your toilet fixed. So tell us, yeah, tell us.

Mike (00:31.579)
Nope.

Mike (00:47.615)
I did. Right. Well, you know, again, well, you know, got my, uh, my tax return, uh, I don't know, last week or something. And I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm in this 105 year old house and the toilets have always been a little sketchy. Um, so I'm like, you know what? I'm replacing the toilets. I got it dude in the program. Um, yeah, you know, I said, Hey man, come on over. Let's, let's take care of this. So, uh, we did one today and we're going to do.

Bill (01:16.416)
Ha ha ha ha.

Mike (01:17.727)
The one upstairs tomorrow morning.

Bill (01:20.462)
Well, that's cool. Yeah. And that's the one thing that, um, well, it, it, it is. No, it's, you know what? It's the point of I've been to your house several times and you know, the, the one toilet upstairs you had, you had turned off because the water would run or something like that. And the one downstairs, it would actually be like, it would, it was almost like there was a pulsing type of thing. Like the house was moving and water was rotating around because.

Mike (01:22.239)
I guess. Kind of the opposite of cool, but go ahead.

Mike (01:34.207)
Right?

Mike (01:39.517)
Yeah.

Bill (01:48.494)
the float would go up and down, you know, and it would go pshhh. You know, so you've had that issue for a while. So under that circumstance, it's cool that you had it done. But what I was going to say is cool is what we talked about before, you know, you got a toilet guy, you got a guy for everything in Cleveland. Literally, that is the 100 % absolute fucking truth is that there's so many of our friends out there that are either in the trades or know people in the trades. We could literally make one phone call, maybe two.

Mike (01:49.207)
Uh -huh.

Mike (02:03.807)
Yeah.

Mike (02:13.951)
Right?

Bill (02:17.71)
it end up with a guy to do anything, anything home repair or any repairs like that. So it's nice, you know.

Mike (02:17.789)
Uh -huh. Yup. Yup.

Mike (02:25.919)
It is. And it's actually funny. Um, well, it was when my hot water tank crapped out, um, it was dumping water all over my basement. Um, yeah, you know, I called Marty said, Hey man, you know, a guy and he did, and it's actually the same guy that came in is doing my toilets. Um, and, um, turns out I sponsored him like 10 years ago for a minute. Yeah.

Bill (02:49.55)
Oh shit, really? Really?

Mike (02:53.471)
I mean, he's doing good now, but yeah, you know, doesn't have me for a sponsor. So I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but yeah, I sponsored a briefly a long time ago.

Bill (03:04.398)
Well, I mean, over the years, and you've sponsored more people, I mean, clearly than I have, but I don't think I've sponsored more than three people, maybe four, five at the absolute most. But I mean, well, you know what I just saw? And this is not one that I sponsored or you sponsored, but did you see a buddy of ours that just said he had 30 days again?

Mike (03:09.439)
Mm.

Mike (03:15.037)
Right.

Mike (03:26.207)
Oh yeah, I did.

Bill (03:27.438)
Yeah, and no sense in going into I, you know, went to call the call the dude out again. But yeah, I mean, I knew that there was some struggling going on over the last couple of years, but I didn't realize, you know, it's 30 days again. I was like, fuck, man.

Mike (03:34.719)
Bye now.

I mean, yeah, he actually reached out to me. I don't know. Maybe four months ago or so, something like that a while ago. And, um, yeah, you know, we talked back and forth for a bit, but yeah, he, he wasn't fucking ready to surrender. So I went, well, not much I can do for you, bud. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I didn't say that to him, but he knew it. And, you know, I mean, like I said, I talked to him a few times and yeah. And then there was a couple of months there where I didn't hear anything. And.

Yeah, now apparently he's got 30 days. So good for him.

Bill (04:10.574)
Well, and there was, um, there was a time and it was got well over a year or so ago now that, um, he had reached out to both of us. Cause I talked to him a couple of times too, but it's been, it wasn't in the last, you know, three, four months. I don't, I don't think time, time just fucking blends for me, but I, I'm sure it was more towards a year ago than it was. Cause I think I was, I was still working for the other company in Milwaukee at the time because I had very limited time. I had to figure out the best time to try to get in touch with him. So I'm pretty sure that.

Mike (04:19.677)
Right.

Mike (04:24.735)
Hehehehehe

Mike (04:31.229)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (04:37.439)
Alright.

Bill (04:38.414)
You know, it was at least close to a year ago. But well, you know, all in all, I'm glad. I mean, I hope.

Mike (04:41.021)
All right. You know what? I could be wrong. You could be wrong. We could both be right.

Bill (04:46.886)
I just, I was a little bit, I was like, damn, really? 30 days? But then also like, damn, okay, 30 days, you know, because it is what it is. I mean, yeah, time matters. And, you know, there's a timeframe when, you know, he was only a couple of years behind us or three, four years, maybe three, I think, at the most, but.

Mike (04:54.781)
Yep.

Mike (05:04.319)
Yeah. I don't, I don't even think that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, he was pretty close. Cause I mean, I, you know, uh, I was kind of part of his life there for a bit. Yeah. Early on, fairly early on. Yeah. You know, went to his baby shower and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Been to his house a few times, his old house with his old, old lady and a long time ago. Yeah. Been around for a while.

Bill (05:07.214)
Yeah, it might have been a couple, you know, so, but it's.

Bill (05:15.5)
Right.

Bill (05:30.318)
Yeah, but like I said, I was glad to see it, but it surprised me for a minute. But anyhow, so back to your toilet. So you got one done, one tomorrow, and that's where you spent your tax refund.

Mike (05:36.093)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (05:42.035)
Yep.

Yeah. Well, some of it, right? You know, not all of it. Yeah.

Bill (05:47.822)
Cool. Now you're.

Bill (05:53.634)
Now you're buzzing, you're sounding like garbled a little bit, which is weird. You were perfectly fine and then it got kind of garbled, almost like, is your connection, is your, are you there? You're good?

Mike (05:58.239)
Huh, probably.

Mike (06:05.183)
Well, you dropped. Yeah, hi.

Bill (06:09.166)
Oh, yeah, it was just weird. Like I said, it was like a little garbled there for a minute. Now you're back. So, OK, well, like I said, ladies and gentlemen, kids, you know, kids over there, we may be having some technical difficulties, but we're going to we're going to push on through because you know what? That's what we do. What are we willing to do today? Right. Yeah.

Mike (06:15.327)
Alright.

Mike (06:27.327)
I don't know. Yeah, right. Sit here and deal with technical issues.

Bill (06:31.406)
Eh, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, I got a bunch of things to talk about. I was packing up for I got my little trips I got one to talk about a little bit. But why don't we why do we do what we what we need to do? And let's get this let's get this reading out of the way. OK, how's that?

Mike (06:44.637)
All right. Well, let's do it. I have nothing planned, not a damn thing. Right. So, uh, sure. Let's do this one. May 13th. I don't know. I just opened the book up. Here we go. I have no idea what it's going to say. Let's let's find out together. Kids may 13th. The fact that she had a nut for a head. This is starting off wonderfully.

Bill (06:48.27)
Oh.

Bill (06:57.166)
Hahaha!

Bill (07:13.166)
Yeah, right. That's a good one. A nut for a head. Okay, did we nut on her head? Is that what we sum? Okay, so nobody nutted on her head. I'll let you, I'm gonna mute again. Okay.

Mike (07:14.143)
Hehehe

Mike (07:20.145)
No, I don't believe so. No, not, not, not hang on. Let's try this. Let's try this again. The fact that she had a nut for a head did make new ideas. Just difficult for her to grasp. Carolyn Sherwin Bailey. No clue. I'm assuming an author because it sounds like some fiction going on. I don't think anyone actually has a nut for a head. Let's see what happens next.

In recovery, we talk a lot about feelings, but not so much about thinking. During our active addiction, we were controlled by our feelings. Our thinking started to bend around our feelings and our addiction. And because we, and we became deluded by our addiction. We lost our ability to think clearly about our own lives. We became an expert on the twisted logic of the addict.

In recovery, we are learning once more to think clearly. We know that it is important to face our feelings, but not let them run our behavior and lives. So how can we learn to think clearly again? It helps to have help. We get help by talking with others about what we are thinking. We answer questions such as what exactly is the problem? Why is it a problem? What is the best thing that could come out of it?

What are all of my choices about what to do? Which of these choices fits in with my values and beliefs? Which decision would support my sobriety? Prayer for the day. Higher power, help me think before I act. Help me stop hurting myself and others by acting too quickly. Today's action. Today I will write down one issue or problem I want to understand better. What is the core of this issue?

What do I have to decide about it? I will talk with my sponsor about the issue and my thoughts so far.

Bill (09:24.942)
So, after we literally kind of beat up all over this author, the nut to the head type of thing, that was a decent reading, but of course started off with feelings. It's all about the feelings. I can see when you read, as soon as you read the word feelings, you almost pause kind of in your head. You're like, I wouldn't have read this if I didn't know what it was gonna say. But so is there like the last.

Mike (09:36.511)
Right? Whoa, whoa, whoa, feeling.

Bill (09:52.942)
part of it, the action part of it talks about a problem or something like that that's going through. Is there anything right now like, and I don't mean like a huge necessarily problem, but do you have any even conundrums going on right now that you're trying to solve?

Mike (10:08.223)
No. Right. Exactly. My life is fucking perfect now. I can shit and flush it down.

Bill (10:09.614)
Yeah, well your toilets fixed so I guess that covers that, right?

Right, right. Yeah, and I was, I don't know, and again spur of the moment trying to think about it. The thing that I was just thinking about, this is not a problem because it's something that I'm planning out all these little trips, which I'll talk about a little bit later, but it's not a problem, but I'm working through, and I'll explain it later, but it kind of ties into this, I suppose. It's something that it's a, I'm calling it a financial puzzle is the easiest way to put it.

Mike (10:35.263)
Hmm.

Mike (10:45.215)
Uh huh.

Bill (10:46.382)
But I don't want to blur up this whole reading with that. I could talk about that later. So the couple of things I wrote, obviously, feelings versus thinking, which was always a problematic thing for me, diluted by our addiction. I like that. Then it talked about twisted logic, feelings not running our lives. And then it talked all about that one area before the prayer and the action, I think, talked about.

Mike (11:00.703)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (11:15.532)
you know, identifying the problem and is it really a problem and, you how do I deal with it and that sort of thing. That I thought was cool because that's something that we learned, you know, really early on. And, you know, I think about all the, we've talked about it before, the fact that, you know, we were 41 and 43 years old. On paper, we were far into adulthood, you know, but, you know, physically by age.

Mike (11:19.839)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (11:28.255)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (11:38.399)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (11:42.478)
you know, on paper, you know, but certainly not mentally, you know, and talk about all the things, you know, that not being able to deal with, you know, traumatic, not even traumatic, I'm gonna use that word, these life issues that happen and, you know, deaths and anything like that, you know, not having the ability to deal with it, not having the ability to deal with, you know, manage our finances, anything. But the biggest thing is, is that even the littlest thing that wasn't really a problem,

Mike (11:42.591)
Right. No.

Bill (12:09.422)
You know, we came into this, you know, the mountain out of molehill type of thing. So.

Mike (12:12.831)
Well, sure. I mean, well, you know, for my, I used it as an excuse to drink, right? You know, rationalizing, oh, you know, things are all fucked up. So I need to get loaded to calm my nerves. Right. Yeah. Exactly. You know, and well, I mean, and it talked about, you know, our, our lives were ruled by our feelings. I mean, absolutely. You know, that's, that's why I,

Bill (12:17.422)
Ha ha ha!

Mike (12:42.847)
don't like the faction of recovery where people, you know, you need to get in touch with your feelings. The fuck you do. You know, I mean, you don't. We were completely ruled by our feelings. Every action that I took was, you know, and every time I got loaded,

Bill (12:51.822)
Ha ha ha.

Mike (13:05.887)
You know, I was happy. I got loaded. I was sad. I got loaded. I was angry. I got loaded, you know, to solve my problems, um, you know, to, to quell my feelings. Um, yeah, you know, I don't, you know, yes, I have feelings and of course I get angry and I get sad and I get happy and, and everything's still, but those feelings do not run my life anymore. Um, first of all, they're fleeting, you know, they change, they change constantly.

Bill (13:33.218)
Right.

Mike (13:36.159)
Um, that's sort of the nature of them. Uh, you know, if you're constantly happy or constantly sad, that would be a problem. Both of them would be a problem. Um, you know, so they're constantly changing. So why would it, you know, what I need is, is the principles, you know, um, the honesty on show selfishness. Uh, yeah. And love and all those and it, and you know, and doing the next right thing and all of these principles, being a better person.

doing things for others, being of service to, you know, the people around you, your community, however you want to put it. You know, these are the things that I need to run my life, not the fact that I stubbed my fucking toe and, you know, now my toe hurts and now I'm angry over it and now I'm sad over it because my toe hurts and I have to walk funny. You know, and guess what? My toe's not going to hurt forever. It's going to stop hurting and...

Bill (14:26.606)
Hahaha

Mike (14:33.567)
then I'll find something else to be angry or happy or sad or whatever over. Yeah, you know, my feelings don't, they cannot run my life anymore. What has to run my life is powers greater than myself. Yeah.

Bill (14:48.43)
Right. Yeah. And the only time that, um, and I did the same thing, like you said, and, and that's a, I'm glad you brought that up between the being one, the highs and the lows are, are the problem parts and that it wouldn't seem like, you know, being too happy all the time, you know, would or could be a problem, but I agree 100 % because if you're, if you're just this, you're probably walking through life with fucking blinders on if you're, if you're happy all the time, it's yeah.

Mike (14:59.965)
Mmm.

Mike (15:13.151)
You're probably an idiot. Yeah.

Bill (15:15.502)
And yeah, and you're an idiot because you're just, you're not paying attention. The world is kind of a fucked up place and relationships can be fucked up, you know, but that's part of this whole thing, you know, the life on life's terms and all that stuff. But the other thing too is that I did the same thing. Whatever little thing, and it didn't matter what that little thing was, I mean, it was a problem. You know, I made it a problem every single time.

Mike (15:23.581)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:39.199)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:45.055)
No, absolutely.

Bill (15:45.198)
And I completely, 100 % blew it out of proportion every time. You know, and the only thing that I do with my, and I'm not saying I disagree with it, not recognizing the feelings. The only time that I really focus on my, the aspect of my feelings is if I'm, if I'm like really cranky for no reason, or I snapped at somebody, then I try to figure out there's something going on, you know? And I want to figure out what that thing is festering in there because,

Mike (16:11.421)
Right?

Bill (16:13.696)
Sooner or later, that's gonna be a problem for me where before, I think that's a good thing, because before I wouldn't pay attention. I'm like, I don't give a fuck. This person cut me out, they did that, or a friend or a family member did something I didn't like, as silly as it might be, and I snap that, I'm fuck him. I go on with my life. But I just, I know you don't either. I don't wanna be that person today.

Mike (16:35.807)
No, no, I don't. I mean, you know, well, most of the time, occasionally I want to be that person.

Bill (16:40.206)
Well, yeah, that's a good one. Let me take that back. Yes, I do want to be that person sometimes, but I know it's a selfish thing. It's horrible for me if I am that person, even if it feel really good to fucking unload on somebody. And it's a false feeling. It's just like getting loaded. It's a very short and, like you said, fleeting thing. I'm going to be really fucking happy in an evil way for a minute.

Mike (16:47.679)
Yes.

Mike (16:52.479)
Mm -hmm. Right. Mm -hmm.

Bill (17:09.678)
or two or 10, and then it's just gonna fuck with me, you know? So yeah, I agree, I agree 100%. So with the, the other thing too, when, so diluted by our addiction, I think that kind of goes into the same line of things, right? I mean, everything else that we were talking about is basically the whole mindset of just being diluted by our addiction, right? Just in a general sense. Right?

Mike (17:18.175)
Alright.

Mike (17:33.279)
Oh yeah. Yeah. Lying to ourselves, you know, that saying exactly. Yeah. You know, I have a right to be pissed off. I have a right to, you know, I have a right to do shit, man. Yeah. You know, we, but we convince ourselves that we do and it makes us it. And again, it gives us that excuse to, to medicate ourselves, to, to be a shitty person, however that manifests itself, you know, and we don't have that right. So that's why we need these principles in these, these things that are.

greater than ourselves to keep our stupid egos and yeah, all that garbage and check. Absolutely.

Bill (18:11.182)
Yeah, it's that entitlement, you know, that the false entitlement that we had and you know, that false sense of worth, you know, that we had and even if we weren't complete pieces of shit, which most of the time we were, but even if we weren't, you know, you're all day, everyday person is not necessarily better or worse than anyone else, you know, so to be that person thinking or feeling that they're entitled to whatever it is, you know, it's just, it's delusional. It's absolutely fucking delusional.

Mike (18:16.669)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:23.485)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:35.923)
Absolutely.

Bill (18:37.838)
So, you know, the other thing too, and it was kind of funny when you were talking about the, uh, whole thing with like the recovery side of things and in feelings and whatever just reminded me again. And I know we've, we talked about this. Uh, I don't even know how many fucking times, but you know, everyone trying to pinpoint. Um, everything in, in the addiction world, you know, back to, back to trauma, you know, and once again, I guess, let me just start out by repeating myself and repeating what Mike and I have both said is that.

Mike (18:57.759)
Mm. Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

Bill (19:07.438)
If you are listening and you went through a true traumatic event, we're not diminishing that. Not even in one way, shape or form, but our opinion is, is that not everything leads back to an event. You know, some of us, Mike, you and me, Bill over here, you know, we just were who we were. We drank because we liked to get loaded. We were, you know, idiots over timeframe, over the timeframe, because we never fucking grew up or anything like that.

Mike (19:13.663)
No, of course not.

Mike (19:24.957)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:35.214)
Neither one of us had perfect childhoods and we talked about that, but I can't look back and there's nothing that made me drink the fact that my parents got divorced and my dad was a dick to me at times and my mom was completely controlling at times or whatever happened in my life. It's irrelevant. My dad was an alcoholic, doesn't matter. My dad was this and that, doesn't matter. So that whole part of it, I still, I think is...

Mike (19:38.143)
now.

Mike (19:51.551)
Mm -hmm. It is.

Bill (20:02.67)
I just don't like, I don't know, it's almost like providing an excuse, I think, is what we've talked about, right?

Mike (20:06.751)
Well, that's just it. Yeah. It's justifying and rationalizing our bad behavior. It doesn't matter what, you know, other people's bad behavior does not justify our bad behavior. It just doesn't, you know? Yeah. So you went through, you know, not you, but you know, a person went through a horrible trauma. Yes, that's awful. And, but that was someone else's bad behavior and it doesn't give you the excuse to act badly. It just doesn't, you know, I mean, yes, it hurts you and it's.

It's, you know, you got to work through it, but you know what? It's, it's back to the, to the Abraham Lincoln quote, you know, when I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion. And it is, you know, um, yes, just because someone else did something bad does not give you the excuse to do something bad yourself, do something good and you will feel good. And eventually you'll be able to forgive those people for their bad behavior.

Bill (21:03.342)
Yeah. And it's, I'll tell you what, I mean, especially if anyone's listening to us, that's, you know, that's new ish to this sort of thing. And I mean, in that first, at least 30, 60, 90 days, maybe even for the first six months or so, you know, there is that, I know that I had some of that revenge, you know, type of feeling in me, you know, wanting to get back at people and, you know, for whatever, even if not necessarily people that.

Mike (21:24.967)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (21:29.614)
People didn't wrong me. I still had that vengeful type of mentality. But I'll tell you, it feels so much better if somebody, I've been 100 % fucked with and fucked over by people since I've been sober. Nothing I would probably openly talk about now, because I can't think about it specifically. I can't think of them specifically. But I know I have, because probably you and I have talked through them. And it's so much better to just say, you know what?

Mike (21:33.917)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (21:45.341)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (21:59.086)
That person's a fucking asshole. I don't like them and I'll even say I hate them. Like, eh, you know, there's just, I don't even want to hate people anymore because that takes, that fucking, that hurts me, man. That takes away from my own fucking joy. I ain't got no time to hate people.

Mike (22:02.215)
Yep.

Mike (22:09.599)
No.

Mike (22:15.072)
Right. Yeah, exactly. No, right. No, I don't hate them. I feel bad for them and I fucking move on and don't have them in my life anymore. But yeah, my, my, my thought is, you know, yes, my old thought was always fucker. I hate you. I don't hate you. I feel bad for you. I feel bad that you, especially people who have had the opportunity have been exposed to this way of life that we're living and, and they,

Bill (22:40.75)
Right.

Mike (22:43.039)
for whatever reason, choose not to be a part of it. You know, even though they'll say they are sometimes or whatever. You know, I mean, I've got a specific one in my head and I just, you know, again, I just, I feel bad for them. I really do. I'm sorry that you are living your life that way because there's a better way and we told you there's a better way and you don't want to accept it. Cool. You know, but do it fucking over there because I don't want to be around it.

Bill (22:53.102)
Heheheheh

Bill (23:12.046)
Right. Yeah. And that's a thing too. You know, you don't have to, I don't know, it's like even on social media, you know, you see people on, and I saw it on Facebook for years, you know, I'm cleaning out my friends list and blah, blah, blah. And I've always thought, I'm like, what the fuck do you even care if you want to fucking cut somebody, cut them. Don't even tell them about it. Just fucking cut them. Done. You know, it's so much easier. Why add that extra?

Mike (23:29.469)
Yeah, right.

Bill (23:36.238)
piece of, and again it is, it's drama that you're gonna add in because you wanna try to stick it to that person. Oh guess what, I'm unfriending you, or guess what, I'm no longer speaking to you or whatever the case is. Just fucking walk away. We say it jokingly, nobody got no time for that, but really ain't nobody got no time for that. I don't. I get too many other fucking positive things in my life than to be drawn down, because that's what happens is with those people.

Mike (23:49.631)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (23:53.759)
Right.

Right.

Bill (24:04.11)
Everyone always says that the typical saying, you know, one bad apple can spoil the bunch. Goofy old saying been around probably since the dawn of fucking time, but it is true. You know, it is, you know, you hang around someone miserable son of a bitch and it's, it's really difficult. It's, it's easier to be pulled down than it is to be brought up, you know, by, by one, one happy individual. It's just the way that it is, you know, human nature, I guess, right.

Mike (24:12.223)
Right. It is right.

Mike (24:28.383)
I guess so. Yeah, right. But yeah, exactly. Why, you know, why, like you said, man, that extra step, I'm not wasting any more energy on this person. Okay, fine. You don't want it. I'm, I'm walking away and I'm truly walking away. You know, I'm going to conserve my energy to put one foot in front of the other away from you.

Bill (24:30.19)
Hahaha

Bill (24:50.318)
Right. Yeah, too many. You've burned too many calories on the good stuff. And to go back to the bad shit, then you don't want to burn any calories on the bad shit because it takes away from the calorie burning on the good shit. All right. So, I mean, you know, for for a random just pick one out of the book reading of it. That was pretty good. I had fun with the beginning, though. The fact that I just don't want to go back to the fast. Just somebody done it on her face is the whole point. That's the opening of the reading. And then I'm sticking to my.

Mike (25:01.791)
Exactly.

Mike (25:08.031)
Yeah.

Mike (25:18.023)
Alright.

Bill (25:19.82)
I'm sticking to my story on that one. So anything else on the reading or you all good?

Mike (25:22.911)
Okay.

Mike (25:28.125)
I'm all good.

Bill (25:29.966)
Okay, so one thing I wanted to, and I know we talked about it briefly a few episodes ago, I think, but I just wanted to talk about the Sober Curator podcast that's coming up. And I think everyone, we talked about the fact that we are affiliated with the Sober Curator. If you don't follow them on Instagram, you should. If you haven't visited the website, you should. It's simply thesobercurator .com. They're on Instagram under the Sober Curator. Mike and I are affiliated with them. We're part of, we are.

sober curators and what that means is it's a voluntary thing for all of us, all the people who are involved. And I think all said and done, Elise said there's, there might be 25 or 30 total, you know, not necessarily people that are active on a, on a daily or monthly basis, but there's a bunch of people involved in this whole thing. But one of the things they're doing is they are putting together a podcast and they're going to take all the, all the curators, you know, including Mike and I, they're podcasters.

Mike (26:15.327)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (26:28.366)
and they're going to rotate around. And I think this is going to be a weekly episode. They're to be like 30 minute episodes. So we are going to have the opportunity, Mike and I, to join in on a rotation. So it might be, maybe it's once a month, maybe it's every three months, who knows what it is, depending on the number of people. But they're kind of in the process. And we were on just a quick meeting the other night. What was that, Wednesday? I think Wednesday, right? Yeah, the days kind of blend. But.

Mike (26:43.741)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (26:50.879)
Yeah, Wednesday. Mm hmm.

Bill (26:55.886)
But yeah, so we just had a, just a quick meeting to, you know, test out our, obviously our podcasting type of equipment and got to chit chat a little bit just to make sure that was all set. But, um, I don't know, it's exciting. It's an opportunity for us to, you know, once again, be, be a part of, I guess, you know, in a general sense, but, um, it, the point of it is that it's going to actually help, um, not just from a sobriety standpoint, you know, to get, get more content out there for people. Um, but it is going to, it's going to be a whole cross promotion of all these different sober podcasts.

Mike (27:10.525)
Mm -hmm, right?

Bill (27:25.678)
You know, so if you listen into our podcast, we're going to be running advertisements for the sober curator podcast, which, you know, might introduce you guys to other sober podcasts and you know, they're going to do the same with us. So just kind of a cool thing. It's an opportunity, um, again, to be a part of, but I think, you know, what we've been trying to do, you know, is, is to try to grow this little thing. And, you know, some of the other podcasters I think are doing the same thing. So I don't know, it's just, uh, it's a cool thing, but yeah, visit, visit the sober curator, support them.

And when I mean support them, just check out the website, follow them on Instagram. They're not asking for any money and we're not asking for anyone to donate money. Just support them on social media. That's all. They're a good group. Yeah, that's all you gotta do. Check them out. Yeah. Okay. So I get a couple of music things. So did you hear who, did I mention who's playing at the Harley? Harley's doing another reunion this year like they did last year with the Foo Fighters.

Mike (28:02.687)
No. Yeah, just check them out.

Mike (28:09.811)
Yeah.

Bill (28:24.75)
which is weird for an odd year. They must be, they usually did them, I mean, the big ones are every, basically every five years, you know, when they do them, but a lot of times in the weekend, they'll do like small events, but they don't necessarily bring in like big name acts, but they're doing that again this year. So it's the red hot chili peppers are coming in. Yeah. And I saw it a couple of months ago and I completely forgot to tell you, we just got tied up with different stuff and finally I wrote it down, but.

Mike (28:39.199)
Hmm. Hmm.

Mike (28:44.287)
Oh, really?

Bill (28:54.178)
So my first question, any encounters since we, this always intrigues me, any encounters with the red hot chili peppers before we go any further?

Mike (28:58.887)
Hehehehehe

Mike (29:04.511)
Uh, well, John lived in my apartment for a few weeks. Does that count? Yeah. Yeah. What the, what the first record he did with them was, um,

Bill (29:08.942)
Did he really? Yeah. I think it counts.

Mike (29:20.447)
mother's milk, drew Blake there for a second. And he had been living in Orange County. He came into Hollywood to record at the big house. It was Houdini's old mansion. Rick Rubin had it. Um, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, uh, anyway, he had given up his apartment in Orange County and needed a place to stay for a couple of weeks. And so, yeah, he stayed at our apartment. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I'd see flea and Anthony around all the time. And I mean, those guys spent, you know, I mean, I lived in Hollywood for three years, so yeah, they were around.

Bill (29:40.334)
Ha ha ha!

Mike (29:50.463)
You know, yeah. Uh, practice space we had for a while. They had one in there too. And, you know, I mean, you gotta remember they weren't, they weren't huge for quite a while. You know, they were just a band working, you know, doing their thing. I mean, and I love those early albums. I mean, freaky style. The one that was produced by George Clinton was just, you know, is my favorite still to this day. So yeah, you know, which I'm sure most red hot chili pepper fans haven't heard that one. So go listen to.

Bill (30:19.31)
Ha ha ha.

Mike (30:20.159)
Go listen to Freaky Styly, it's a really good fucking album. And you'll probably hate it.

Bill (30:25.134)
Well, was it was it Mark Barron in this might have been I don't know when I was doing my traveling it at one point I was listening to a couple of things and I ran across Flea I think Mark Barron had did he have flea on a year ago? Okay Yeah, whatever whatever it was and it was I think when I did that whole running around back with I was in the Ozarks and stuff back in September I was driving all that entire time. I was flipping through stuff and This I enjoyed it. They he talked about that, you know the different people I

Mike (30:35.167)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.

Bill (30:54.648)
different producers and I remember him and I know I've heard some of the music but it was funny that like right after I listened to that I just I popped on Spotify and I listened to the Red Hot Chili Peppers for like three hours or something like that or two hours. You know it's just because you know these these musicians that he you know that he you know ends up interviewing it's not that I don't know their music you know but I'm just like I haven't listened to them you know like again like you said we're joking around like the deep cuts of some of these things but yeah I just

Mike (31:05.791)
Hehehehehe

Mike (31:14.813)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (31:21.966)
I just figured that was always my first question. But yeah, I was just kind of I can't think of the other bands that are coming in, but I think they're the Saturday Night Band, which I was just like, I'm like, God damn, they're doing that again. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know that that would work out again. That was it. I mean, it wasn't like super expensive, but, you know, still three, four hundred bucks to, you know, to do that thing last year. But man, I had I had such a great time in that Foo Fighters show. I mean, it was that was a lot of fun. It was good.

Mike (31:31.871)
Cool.

Mike (31:43.167)
Right.

Mike (31:47.967)
Yeah, that was fun.

Bill (31:51.79)
Alright, so one more musical thing. Anything more in the chili peppers? Anything?

Mike (31:57.075)
Yeah. They came out and played and only tube socks strategically placed. Yes. It was a club. It was a club in Sacramento called Lord Beaver Brooks. Yep.

Bill (31:57.602)
Okay.

Bill (32:03.694)
A sock show? What is this?

Bill (32:09.614)
Oh, okay, I gotcha, I gotcha, okay. No, I gotcha. Yeah, you lost me for a minute, but...

Come out there swinging their socks. That's nice. That's nice. I remember seeing pictures and probably videos of things like that. I think they did it more than once, didn't they? Yeah, that's what I thought. All right, so last, I think it was last weekend and I heard about this on the radio. Did you see or hear anything about John Mellencamp in Toledo?

Mike (32:22.591)
Yeah.

Mike (32:32.255)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (32:47.103)
Uh, yeah, I saw something briefly and apparently he did something very similar here in Cleveland, like six, eight months ago.

Bill (32:49.678)
Hahaha.

Bill (32:54.35)
Yeah, that's what I kind of got lost in a brief articles that I read. But so I guess, first of all, John Mellencamp, any opinion? I don't think we've ever talked about John Mellencamp.

Mike (33:04.067)
Little Johnny Cougar.

Bill (33:06.894)
Yeah. Yeah. So wait, wait, who do you like better? John Cougar, John Mellencamp or John Cougar Mellencamp, which as I thought about that, it is kind of a joke, but it's, it's almost, I mean, that when he had his different names were different, you know, timeframes and styles of his music. So, I mean, even though it's the same person, it was different points of his musical life, but anyhow, so opinions on Mr. Mellencamp, Cougar, Mellen, Mellencougar camp, whatever. Mellenhead, yes.

Mike (33:11.997)
Heheheheh

Mike (33:23.421)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:28.607)
Right.

Mike (33:34.047)
melonhead. Um, uh, nah, not really. I mean, it's, uh, yeah, you know, no, guys from Indiana. The fuck.

Bill (33:43.566)
Okay. Right. But no, I just, again, something that I heard the story and I was kind of laughing and I'm like, there's another reason why I, why I brought it up or other than that, it just would have made me laugh. But I just didn't know if we ever talked about it. So the, the brief part of the story, what I heard is he's on stage, he's doing a show and then he stops, which apparently what he does, he'll do it every once in a while and then he'll, you know, kind of take a break and, you know, tell a story. So he was telling some story about his, his fucking grandpa or something like that, some family thing.

And some dude gets up in the crowd and just says, you know, play more music. We want to hear your story. Play some fucking music. And the guy's like, Nellie Camp appears like, what the fuck do you think I've been doing type of thing? You know, kind of calling him whatever he was and then apparently ordered his bouncer to find him and bring him backstage after the show, like he was going to fucking beat his ass or whatever. And then then the guy's yelling out, play authority song, shut up and play authority song.

Mike (34:23.871)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (34:37.437)
Hehehehehe

Bill (34:38.954)
And then I guess I guess Melanchat just said finally he's like, you know what? He goes since you've all been such a such a wonderful crowd He goes, I'm he goes I could just stop you go and I could just go home But he goes I'm gonna I'm gonna cut ten songs off the set He goes I'm starting but I'm starting back in now and I guess play Jack and Diane then either during that song or right afterwards got pissed off and said You know what? I'm done walked off stage and People started leaving and then apparently he came back. So the speculation is somebody's like listen, dude, you sign a fucking contract get back

Mike (35:08.509)
Right.

Bill (35:09.006)
of fucking melancholy ass back out there and you know go go sing Jack and Diane or fucking Authority song or whatever you want to sing but go sing you know. But on the radio I was listening to the morning show and the one guy's like he's like God was he drunk or something like that so that's when I looked up the article and did you have any idea he hasn't he stopped all alcohol and drug use in 1971 when he was 20 years old. Yeah I didn't either.

Mike (35:17.119)
Huh.

Mike (35:26.463)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (35:34.943)
Wow, yeah, I did not know that.

Bill (35:38.862)
Now, here's the thing is just the I did not read any of the articles, but I got into this again, this a little this minor rabbit hole about the other concerts that he's done shit like that in. But I mean, I don't know that he's, you know, quote unquote sober or living that type of, you know, like a sober like us type of thing. Or if he just apparently the headline was I'd done or his quote was I did all the drugs or I did my fill by the time I was 20. I stopped and he goes.

Mike (35:48.541)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (36:05.422)
basically all watching all of his friends continue to party and losing their lives and this and that. So he's got kind of like that, that experience side of, you know, losing people to alcohol and drugs. But I had no clue. I mean, that's, and he's fucking 70 now that's 50 fucking years, you know? But, but again, I don't know that he, I don't know. I've got to say professors or even says, you know, I'm sober or anything like that. And you just might've just said, fuck it, man. I got enough, you know, but I just, I had no clue.

Mike (36:18.655)
Yeah, right.

Mike (36:27.903)
Right. Right. Yeah.

I didn't care enough to have a clue.

Bill (36:35.15)
Hahaha, yeah, but even if you didn't care every once in a while we hear stuff about people that we don't care about, you know

Mike (36:43.007)
Yeah, I still don't care though. This music sucks.

Bill (36:46.831)
Okay, well there's now there's your there's your real opinion so and I think our start talking again I think we're getting it's it's about that time. I think we're getting the delay again

Mike (36:57.471)
Yeah, probably because yeah, you're zitting and zitting and zitting. Yep.

Bill (37:01.934)
Really? Yeah, and again, the only good thing, once again, that the recordings come out 100 % perfect, no issues, anything like that. But yeah, I think we get delays or something like that. So let's say something right now. I mean, I just heard you light up, heard you lighter and stuff like that. You just light up a cigarette, but I mean, I think you're, I can't tell if you're delayed or not.

Mike (37:18.271)
Alright.

Mike (37:22.687)
I don't think I am.

Bill (37:24.366)
Okay, cool. Well, you know what, one way or the other, let's take a break and let's try to push. Yeah, let's try to push our luck and try not to have to start over tonight, okay?

Mike (37:28.159)
It's about that time.

Mike (37:34.333)
All right. Sounds like a plan. Good. Well, we're going to go suck on a chili dog down by the tasty freeze and we'll be right back after these words from our sponsor.

Bill (37:39.854)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Bill (37:52.59)
All right, everyone. We're back from sucking on a chili dog. That's just fucking terrible. You know what? Eddie, whatever you want to do in your spare time, boys and girls, that's fine. If you want to suck on a chili dog now by the Tasty Freeze, you know, Jack and Diane and hands between their knees and all that stuff, feel free. That's fine. I couldn't help myself going. I usually try not to laugh at your little jokes going into that break, but I couldn't fucking help myself. So.

Mike (37:59.039)
Hehehehehe

Mike (38:06.623)
Hehehehehe

Mike (38:22.047)
Good.

Bill (38:23.246)
Yeah, I know. So, all right, so we got our rock and roll stuff out. We found out, okay, note to self, Mike hates John Mellon Camp. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that around. That actually made my made up side note even more funny. So thank you. I appreciate that. All right, so.

Mike (38:32.735)
I don't hate him. I feel sad for him and I wish he would do it somewhere else. We already covered this.

Mike (38:49.747)
Uh huh.

Bill (38:52.526)
Here's another thing you want to you want to go over this has one alcohol element in it. So I thought this would be a fun list. You want to hear a list of the top 10 things that turned 50 in 2024.

Mike (39:05.471)
Yeah, sure. 1974. Go ahead.

Bill (39:07.182)
Okay, I won't, right, I won't necessarily do all 10 of them, but the one, the alcohol part of it, this was number four on the list, Bailey's Irish Cream. Did you? Okay. And yeah, and the Heimlich Renew, yeah, the Heimlich Renewer. Apparently,

Mike (39:19.135)
You know, I heard this the other day. Yeah, yeah.

Mike (39:26.857)
Maneuver, yes, yes.

Do you need one?

Bill (39:35.342)
I sure as fuck don't need Bailey's, but I'm like, okay, so Bailey's Irish Cream, eh, but I'm like, the Heimlich maneuver, really? So what the fuck did people do before 1974 when they were choking? I mean, I'm like, that, right. It just, it kind of blew my mind. I was like, the other one, the obvious one, barcodes. I was kind of surprised that barcodes had been around for 50 years, but mindless things like Post -It notes,

Mike (39:35.359)
Aha!

Mike (39:47.839)
They died.

Bill (40:04.174)
Dungeons and Dragons, you know, Connect Four, Skittles, DayQuil. This one was funny too. So NightQuil hit pharmacies eight years earlier in 1966. DayQuil landed in 1974 and was originally called Day Care. And again, I was like the biggest one that threw me was the Heimlich maneuver, but oh, the last one on here, the Meow Mix jingle, which everyone knows just the meow meow meow meow meow.

Mike (40:22.975)
Alright.

Mike (40:33.311)
Uh huh.

Bill (40:33.454)
kind of drove me nuts thinking about it. But I'm like, you know, I don't know. I mean, all these things literally have been around for what feels like all of our lives, because we were just fucking children when they first came out. But I don't know, like, seriously, the Heimlich maneuver. Why can't I say Heimlich maneuver? What do you say when you're trying to do your stimulus, stimulus, stimulus Heimlich maneuver? That could be our new our new preparation word preparation eight.

Mike (40:44.671)
All right.

Mike (40:50.239)
I don't, I don't know.

Mike (40:59.263)
Right.

Bill (41:03.438)
Let's look that one up. How long has that been around? Okay, so anyhow, but all right, so no, that just kind of, that was mindless. Just kind of blew my mind a little bit. So, okay, I'm picking out a random saying off, not saying, but a random thing off my list here. This is from the reading a day at a time. The longer I'm in recovery, the more important,

Mike (41:03.507)
Heimlich. H is for Heimlich.

Bill (41:31.958)
more important becomes the slogan, first things first. I used to believe that family came first, that my home life came first, that my job came first, but I know today, in the depths of my heart, that if I can't stay sober, I have nothing. First thing first for me means that everything in my life depends on my sobriety. Am I grateful to be sober today? So, and we talk about that a lot, you know, in the whole first things first type of thing.

Did you always look at it that way? I mean, the phrase first things first, I don't know that I necessarily looked at sobriety first, but I suppose that makes sense. I mean, I agree with the whole paragraph, but did you understand that right away if somebody said, hey, first things first? Did you understand that just sober first?

Mike (42:18.431)
No, probably not. No. Um, you know, yeah, right. First things first is, you know, well, take one thing at a time and you know, all that, but it all kind of does come around to, yeah, but you know, first things first, don't get overwhelmed. Don't get, you know, do this thing and then do the next thing and then do the next thing. Don't worry about that third step when you're still trying to do the first step, basically. But, um, yeah, you know, uh, I never.

Bill (42:22.158)
Ha ha ha!

Mike (42:48.383)
put it in the context of sobriety first, but yes, but that was drilled into our heads so damn hard that I didn't equate the phrase first things first with sobriety first. So sobriety first was just, is just, yeah, right. You have nothing else if you don't have your sobriety.

Bill (43:08.526)
Right. Yeah, and I just paused our uploads too, because I forgot to do that before. Because I think we were starting to get a little bit of a delay again. It's weird. It's kind of like, it seems to be like bouncing in and out with the delay. And yeah, we're still there. Yeah, we still are, because you said, ah, after that was still talking. But OK, so maybe it'll clear itself up. We're still on the low data mode. Yeah, sorry, folks. We're doing a little bit of a.

Mike (43:18.623)
Ah.

Yes we were.

Bill (43:36.172)
A little bit of a technical check here. Check one, check one. Technical check one. But so to get back to the, yeah, to get back to the first things first, I didn't, I don't remember the first time that I heard that saying, but I'm pretty goddamn sure that I didn't think of it that way for that way right away either. But we were told that, you know, because it, you know, whatever I think the, well, I don't think the main saying is, is that whatever we put before.

Mike (43:40.351)
Check, check, check.

Bill (44:05.912)
our sobriety will give up, you know, or we'll make it go, or we'll go away if we put it before our sobriety, right?

Mike (44:15.295)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know anything we put before our sobriety we will lose. So don't yeah, don't put anything before your sobriety that comes first.

Bill (44:25.742)
Yeah, and it's, I mean, you know, again, it seems so elementary to me now, and I don't want to say that, oh yeah, well, of course, because that's, I mean, we've been around for a couple of minutes here, but it is, I mean, it's something we always talk about, you know, that the simple program for complicated people, right?

Mike (44:48.317)
Absolutely.

Bill (44:51.776)
Oh my god, that was a long delay. That was a really long delay. Yeah, this is fucking weird. I don't know. We're gonna keep... Yeah, you're popping back in or we're popping back in and out with this, but hang on one second.

Mike (44:56.415)
Yes it was.

Bill (45:07.842)
I just took a drink of coffee. Maybe it'll come back. But I don't know, you still, right, yeah, oh my God, that was a really long one. Fuck man, I don't know. Seriously, I'm like trying to figure out like what to do here, because we already took the pause off, I took the thing there, took the low data mode. God, I don't even know. I don't know what to.

Mike (45:14.365)
Yeah, I'm sure that'll help.

Mike (45:21.343)
Uh -huh.

Bill (45:36.11)
just trying to figure out if there's anything. I'm gonna put this, I don't know. Well, let's keep trudging through. Could you still hear me okay?

Mike (45:45.439)
I mean, I can hear you, but it's, you know, I'm sure we're like about eight seconds apart.

Bill (45:52.044)
Do you think it's that long?

Mike (45:55.007)
It's a solid five.

Bill (45:58.286)
Yeah, it definitely is. Shit.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, at this point, do we want to try? Do you want me to try to start up? Should we just start up a new studio and take a take another quick break here and start a new studio? I mean, we're not really going to take a break, but I guess technically we're going to we're going to pause here for a minute and just start up a new studio. What do you think?

Mike (46:22.463)
Sure.

Bill (46:25.408)
All right, so yeah, we'll be back in a minute. You guys won't know it's been a minute, but it'll be about probably 10 minutes, but yeah, we'll be back.

Mike (46:27.143)
Hehehehehe

Bill (00:02.414)
Well, what do you fucking know? I think we're back. Are we back? I don't know. It's just, yeah, we again, you know, set up a new studio and Mike and I are trying something new here and we're both literally, would perplexed be the right word.

Mike (00:05.053)
I don't know.

Mike (00:21.405)
Sure, that's a perfect word for it. Yes, perplexed.

Bill (00:24.91)
Yeah, I mean, it just, I, neither it, nobody, I get it. Nobody cares. You guys only care to the extent of the fact that you have to listen to this bad fucking audio in this delay. And I just, it just, it's frustrating. So either way, you know what? We're gonna, we're gonna forge on. How, how about that mic? Back to you. Forging, forging. Okay. Um, hang on.

Mike (00:37.605)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (00:45.319)
All right, forging. Why, thanks Bill.

Bill (00:52.526)
second here. I'm just trying to find one that I haven't seen. Oh, so from, keep it simple, we've been talking about, we've talked about this, I think touched on this a couple of times, but it says it was just a one line thing that says we can learn to be honest without being cruel. Now, I think we've talked about this before, but I think it's been a while. So maybe just let's dive into the fact of what's the difference between, you know, honesty and

Mike (01:13.085)
Hmm. All right.

Bill (01:22.35)
you know, being honesty where it's cruel. What does that, I guess, what does that, what does that mean to you, Mike?

Mike (01:25.213)
Right. Well, I mean, yeah. Right. Well, the quote is honesty without compassion is cruelty.

Yeah. And that's just it. Yeah. I, you know, I'm being honest. No, you're being an asshole. You know, there's no compassion involved, right? Yeah. Yes. It's we're supposed to be honest. Of course we are. But you know, we were honestly assholes when we were drinking. I know I was, I would, you know, I, I certainly wouldn't, uh, I wouldn't shy away from telling you exactly what I thought of you and, and couched it and being honest, you know, again, the delusional shit.

Bill (01:39.982)
Right.

Bill (01:51.694)
Hehehe

Mike (02:02.725)
Lying to ourselves saying well, I'll be honest. I'm just being true to myself. Oh fuck that myself is fucked up, man I don't want to be true to myself. I want to be true to something greater than myself Right, but that's just it. Yeah, honesty without compassion is cruelty, you know gratuitous honesty a friend of mine used to say Don't be gratuitous. Yeah, don't be gratuitous the honest. Yeah

Bill (02:08.206)
Hehehehe.

Bill (02:23.374)
That's actually, that's a really good way to put it. I yeah.

Mike (02:31.197)
Yeah, she was pretty damn smart. She was smarter than me. The hell she was doing hanging out with me. I'm not really sure, but. Right, but, um, yeah, I mean, that's that's pretty much what it comes down to. You know, yes, we need to be we need to be honest with ourselves. Being honest with everyone around us is probably not a good idea because, you know, nobody really wants to hear that honesty. You know, they want to hear.

Bill (02:33.806)
Right?

Mike (02:59.421)
A couch version of it, you know? Um, and, and again, you know, I could, I could tell people all day long, um, where they're falling short, you know, that's, that's easy. Um, you know, what I need to do though is focus on where they're not falling short, where they're doing okay. When I see they're falling short, maybe help them up their game a little bit, but just telling them blatantly, Hey, you're falling short asshole. Um, it's making me an asshole, right? So we need to be kind.

Bill (03:08.536)
Hehehehehe

Mike (03:27.677)
first, you know, and then the honesty will come naturally when we're being kind. You know, we practice, practice, practice, practice. And, you know, again, practice being a kind person. And then when you are be honest, it will come with the kindness and that's the way to do it.

Bill (03:48.142)
Right. Yeah. And, uh, and you used to always say, um, honesty without, um, honesty without love is, yeah, but you used to, no, no, no, I know. But you used to say, you used to say honesty without love. You used to say the word love rather than compassion. Cause I think that, uh, that was, yeah, that's the way that I had heard it to begin with. I mean, I, I was listening to you. I did hear what you said, but you're a smart friend, but that's why I was saying you used to say honesty without love is cruelty. Um, that was the first.

Mike (03:55.227)
Compassion is cruelty. I just fucking said it

Mike (04:05.221)
Really.

Mike (04:09.022)
Mmm.

Hahaha!

Mike (04:16.605)
Okay.

Bill (04:17.472)
And then years ago, I mean, obviously when we first got sober, but, um, but I mean, one, one where the other, and it's, I mean, when you think about it, yeah, it's just, you know, we don't have to say, um, at least these days, we don't have to say everything that's on our minds, whether it's good, bad, or different, you know? Um, and sometimes, sometimes less is, uh, I mean, less is 100 % more. It's, it's absolutely more, you know, um, just because if somebody, if somebody irritates you mildly even.

Mike (04:31.229)
No.

Hehehehe.

Mike (04:39.997)
Right.

Bill (04:47.34)
Let's say we don't have to say, you know, oh, by the way, you motherfucker, you know, or somebody's like, oh, did I get in your way that I do this? It was cool. Rather than saying, actually, yeah, you know what, you're fucking irritated. You did this, you did that, you did this, you did this. Maybe all that is true, but is it necessary? You know, and it's, and nine times out of 10, it's just, it's not necessary, right?

Mike (04:59.685)
Hehehehehe

Mike (05:06.351)
Exactly.

Mike (05:13.277)
No, absolutely not. No, it's, it's almost right. Yeah. Almost never necessary.

Bill (05:19.854)
It's pretty much almost completely unnecessary if we want to put it that way, right?

Mike (05:25.757)
Hmm. All right. I mean, occasionally that one time out of 10, it may be necessary, but that's again, you know, running it through all those filters. Is it kind? Is it loving? Is it, is it, you know, unselfish, you know, is it going to make me feel better to tell you what a Dick you're being, or can I just let it go?

Bill (05:44.494)
Right. Well, it is a different story. We talk about people taking care of their little corner of the world. We always talk about that. Whatever you're doing, as long as you're not hurting other people. So maybe if somebody's being a dick and actually hurting themselves and or other people, maybe that's the time to have a conversation. But you can still do that. To your point, you could do that compassionately. And you can sit down and have a conversation with somebody about,

Mike (06:10.715)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (06:14.734)
if they're the ones being cruel where it's affecting both themselves and other people. But still, compassion, and I like that. I actually like that better than the word love, but I mean, you used to say it that way, but I like the word compassion, because I think that that's a more encompassing word, I think, if you use the word compassion in my head, right?

Mike (06:21.726)
Right.

Mike (06:33.341)
Right. Well, going back to the reading, apparently my mind's clearing and my vocabulary is getting slightly larger.

Bill (06:40.726)
Right. So one of the other things that I remember when I wrote this down, but just kind of caught my eye. It's on my second page. At any point in your drinking days, did you have physical signs, you know, that alcohol was getting the best of you? And I mean, anything right off the top of your head, even if you didn't want to admit it, you know, physical things that you were seeing, feeling anything like that, that things start to pop up.

Mike (07:10.045)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, I was, um, I was definitely starting to occasionally get pains in my side and, you um, uh, how personal do you want to get my bowel movements weren't exactly great. Uh, they weren't healthy. Um, you know, I mean, the one that really pops to mind is, I mean, really my entire life, um, people always thought that I was younger than I was like always, you know,

Bill (07:22.67)
Hahaha!

Mike (07:38.333)
I guess my age, man, you know, selfish, look at me, um, you know, but guess my age and whatever. And my last birthday before I got sober, right. Got sober in April. Um, so my birthday was in February and that last one, um, I was working some crap hole temp job on my birthday. And, uh, you know, did, you know, again, look at me selfish and self centered and you know, Hey, old, do you think I am? And they actually, the person guests like,

three or four years older than I actually was and I was like oh fuck uh -huh yeah wouldn't look it too good

Bill (08:08.974)
Yeah, yep. Well, I uh...

And I posted that, God, do I still have that? Oh, I do, I still have that on, or no, I don't. I don't remember if that's the one. But there was that picture that Cathy gave me that I posted on Instagram at the one point, and that was the picture from my birthday. So you figure, again, it got sober in April, and that was end of September of 2009. And I mean, clearly I was a little fucked up at the time, but I looked fucking terrible. I mean, just fucking.

Mike (08:40.423)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (08:47.901)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (08:49.486)
terrible. But you know, it's funny when you talked about personally why to get the ball movements, but Kathy had brought that up a couple of times because you and I talked about that. That was one of the greatest things in the world. And again, maybe everyone call this gross, call it whatever you want, but I mean, it is what it is. You know, when you can become, I mean, just something as simple as becoming regular again, I mean, it's just, that's a gift because...

Mike (08:50.843)
Right.

Mike (09:07.069)
Hehehe.

Mike (09:14.333)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (09:17.038)
I seriously, and this is 100 % fact, I remember, yes, but I remember when I was drinking so much and again, basically having diarrhea half the time or that sort of thing, or that urgency type of thing. And there was certain times when I was going someplace and either I wouldn't eat or I wouldn't eat that much or I was taking a modium and stuff like that because...

Mike (09:17.725)
Was there a bow on it?

Mike (09:32.989)
Uh -huh.

Uh -huh.

Bill (09:44.202)
I couldn't trust myself. I didn't think I was gonna shit myself, but I'm like, you know, I didn't want to get that I didn't want to get into that situation and I don't remember when that happened, but I mean that's literally from I mean all the booze and shit like that just completely fucks fucks people up, you know

Mike (09:47.069)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (09:51.261)
Right?

Mike (09:57.245)
Oh yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Your body's trying to get rid of the poison, man.

Bill (10:03.15)
Right? Yeah. Well, and the other thing too is my fingernails, which I didn't realize until after the fact, but my fingernails started to go concave, kind of curve in. I don't know if, did we ever talk about that? Okay. So, and it was towards probably the last six months to a year that I was drinking. And after I got sober and I didn't know what it was, it was just really fucking weird, you know?

Mike (10:18.685)
now.

Bill (10:32.558)
But it's basically like a lack of, again, a lack of nutrients and booze and this and that and blah, blah, blah. It starts to affect your fingernails and they do, rather than curving the way they should, they curve in the other way. Not all of them, but I would get my nails started to curve in like that. It was fucked up. And yeah, it was weird and I didn't know. I didn't know what was going on. But I mean, always,

Mike (10:53.085)
Wow, that's pretty neat.

Bill (11:02.816)
You know, like, just, you know, your eyes, your eyes are always, you know, fucking bloodshot. Your face is always fucking red, you know. I never got, because I remember you talking about now that you talked about it on here with the, with the side pains and stuff like that. Do you think that was like liver shit, right?

Mike (11:07.963)
Right?

Mm -hmm.

Mike (11:18.589)
Oh yeah, I guarantee it was. Yeah, definitely. You know, I mean, I'm sure it was, you know, fucking bloated and yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was getting side beans because my shit was shutting down.

Bill (11:31.918)
Right. Yeah, and I don't, boy, I just don't, I don't know. I was drunk half the time. I was drunk all the time, so I don't think I felt the pain. You know, I was fucked up in this, you know, kind of a little bit off topic, but kind of the same thing. I mean, literally when going through detox and stuff like that, and I've talked about this, I mean, my legs didn't work, I couldn't walk and all this different stuff. I don't know what the fuck happened to me, whether it was all the medications or whatever they did, blah, blah, blah. But.

Mike (11:40.893)
Yeah.

Mike (11:54.491)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (12:00.398)
for literally for like the first, I don't know, you know, six months or something like that after I got sober, I was just, I was so fucking sore all the goddamn time. And I think what it was is that, you know, my mind finally caught up, you know, was clear enough to catch up with my age and the fact that, you know, I had aches and pains, you know. But I mean, it could have been just in general, maybe my body trying to get itself back in order, but I don't know. I mean, it was fucked up. I was physically sore, like,

Mike (12:09.437)
Mm -hmm. All right.

Mike (12:20.155)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (12:29.774)
all the fucking time, everywhere, it was crazy.

Mike (12:31.325)
Right.

I don't know. I still am so.

Bill (12:34.99)
So, I mean, good. Well, I mean, you know, we have put another, you know, we have put another 14 years on these chassis, you know, now. So like a little bit, little bit more time involved. Yeah, there's a there's a big physical difference. I mean, yeah, I was sore when I first got sober. But I mean, there's a there's a physical difference. And but, you know, being 41 and, you know, 55 or 43 and how old are you now? 50. What?

Mike (12:45.373)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (13:02.173)
57 pushing 60. Ooh.

Bill (13:04.994)
I know, just fucking, I know. Isn't that great? Isn't that something? Right. Yeah, but I just, I didn't know if that was anything that we ever really talked about, if it was just like signs that you ignored. I know there were signs that I ignored. I mean, you fucking curved ass, you know, fucking fingernails, you know? I mean, Jesus.

Mike (13:09.903)
Isn't it though? That is something. It certainly is.

Mike (13:22.939)
Oh yeah.

Right. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You know, and I mean, you know, I've talked about it before too. I wasn't a maintenance drinker because I could never fucking handle that. Once I put it in, I didn't stop. So there were times, I mean, I had the shakes all the fucking time, you know, if I wasn't drinking, you know, getting through the day or whatever. Yeah. You know, um, and I still did. I mean, you talk about six months after getting sober, I'd still get the shakes sometimes. Um, after I

about six months or so, you know, I'd go to grab a cup or something and yeah, I'd be fucking shaken, man. I put it down and then just kind of stand there for a minute and fuck, you know, let it pass. Yeah, definitely. I'll fucking smooth man. Steady as a rock.

Bill (14:09.134)
Just what you said, how smooth. Yeah, if I was looking for the way to describe you, that would have been it. That just would have been it. You know, it's funny too, and I'm looking at something, we don't have to, we literally talked about this already, but one other thing I had written down, it says, when I'm upset, I'll ask myself, is this problem really so bad? If I can't change it, I'll let it go. It was from,

Mike (14:14.877)
That's right.

Mike (14:21.949)
Hahaha!

Mike (14:36.189)
Hmm. Right.

Bill (14:38.83)
I think it might have, it literally might have been from that same reading. But I didn't, I didn't put a, usually I put what reading it's from, but I'm just, I'm glancing at that and I'm like, well, fuck, I think, I think that was from the May reading. Could have been, could have been May, I, some, seriously, man, some of the shit I've had, I've had written down here for so long. It was just, it was just fucking, it's fucking crazy. But.

Mike (14:43.837)
All right.

Mike (15:01.917)
Yeah, well, I mean, it's, you know, that's about a third of the serenity prayer, you know, except the things I cannot fucking change, right?

Bill (15:07.252)
Right, yeah.

Right? But yeah, it was just the biggest thing with talking about the problems, you know, us making like the the mountainside of Moahills and all that shit. But yeah, it's just kind of funny. All right. So next thing that obviously on my list here, as I'm looking down these older ones, the saying more will be revealed. Obviously something that you and I say all the time. But what is that? What does it really mean or what do you?

I just never really thought about what it really means or what do you think it means or what does it mean to you type of thing. You know, more will be revealed.

Mike (15:41.821)
Right, right.

More will be revealed. There's, we're not done.

Bill (15:47.566)
You're just like, it just means what it means.

Mike (15:51.421)
No, no, no. Well, no, it means it means that, you know, we're not done yet. You know, we're not there. We're we still have growth to do. We still have growing to do. We still have. Yeah, you know, more will be revealed. We don't know it all yet. Even, you know, our advanced ages and, uh, and, uh, you know, where we're at in our recovery and we've been doing this for a while and all that good stuff. But.

We don't know it all. There's more to learn. There's more that we will see that there's more to understand. There's more, there's growth to be done still. We're not done yet. That's pretty much what it means to me.

Bill (16:36.398)
Right. Yeah. And you know what? As I'm thinking about it here, it's it's almost to I agree with all of that. And I agree that, you know, everything that we either we've been taught, there's always more, you know, to to learn in that particular whatever the thing is, but also from a life sort of thing. You know, you can again, whether it's a relationship or you're learning in a job or anything like that, it can be applied to any part of our lives if we if we choose to, which I think we should.

Mike (16:37.851)
Yeah.

Bill (17:03.862)
you know, realizing that we're gonna learn more and more will be revealed and everything. But it's almost, I don't know, it's almost like as you were talking about it, and maybe think about it, it's almost a comforting thing, you know? It's so much, how freeing is that to say that, man, I don't fucking know everything.

Mike (17:04.765)
Right?

Mike (17:15.389)
Oh, absolutely.

Mike (17:23.709)
Oh yeah. And, and, and I mean, there's, there's hope built into that too. You know, there's, there's going to be more you're going to know and understand and, and, and feel. And yeah, you know, definitely there, there's, I, I find it comforting that, you know, yeah, there's, there's, it's going to get even better. Fuck. Cool.

Bill (17:36.75)
Right.

Bill (17:45.582)
Right, I know. And that's just, isn't that mind blowing? Because, you know, once again, I mean, we talked about it enough that there's neither one of our lives, you know, are perfect or, I mean, there, I think that, let me step back a minute. I don't mean that as far as not perfect, as far as us not being grateful for what we have, because I think that's the, with us, it's the complete opposite. But, you know, not, it's not all,

Mike (18:09.917)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (18:14.734)
God, why am I missing this? Something, strawberries and orgasm, Jesus Christ. Heidi, I feel terrible now. Heidi, I apologize if you ever listen to this. Life is not all strawberries and orgasms for us, but it's good, you know? And it's one of those things where realizing that all that we have, but that there's more and that we can be accepting of that and.

Mike (18:18.877)
Hehehehehe

Bill (18:43.022)
I don't know, it's just, again, it's just comforting, you know? Not having to have it all fucking figured out, you know? It's just, because I used to always think that, I never had it all figured out, but I thought I did. You know, I mean, and I'm not talking about last week, because I mean, yeah, I still feel that way every once in a while, but you know, back before we got sober, you know, thinking that I got all this shit figured out, which is, you completely untrue, but.

Mike (18:50.333)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:54.877)
Right?

Mike (19:02.621)
Oh, sure.

Bill (19:11.342)
you know, now just realizing that we don't even have to come close to, it is, it's the progress, not perfection. There's the other one. You know, there's the other saying, which all that means is we have to keep striving for more. We're never gonna be perfect and perfection is not a goal. It is something to strive for, but it's an unreachable thing that we're striving for, but understandable. How I wanna say that? We realize we're not gonna reach it? I don't know.

Mike (19:35.293)
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. War will be revealed.

Bill (19:41.838)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what he said more will be revealed. But no, seriously, it just, I think I heard somebody say that on either Reddit someplace again, you know, in one of the readings or whatever. And it just occurred to me that, I mean, we say it all the time, but we've never really, it's like, what does it mean, man? You know?

Mike (19:47.919)
Hehehehehe

Mike (19:58.493)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:05.277)
Right. It means that there is hope that things are going to get even better than they are now. I will understand more. I'll have more empathy, more love, more peace and serenity. And yes, more good. We want that. I'm a f****g addict, man. I want more.

Bill (20:12.62)
Yeah.

Bill (20:23.406)
Yeah, and that is the thing, man. It's just that the fact that we can, once again, you know, we got to do all this work and this is sarcasm. You know, got to go to some meetings, got to read some books, got to do some prayers. And we have to be, you know, decent human beings. I mean, all this shit we get, we get back in return, you know, even if it's nothing more than, you know, the love of, you know, our family and friends and, you know, having that comfort and...

Mike (20:37.661)
Hmm?

Bill (20:50.734)
Hopefully having a way that we can make a living without wanting to shoot ourselves or at least on most days, right? Yeah. And new toilets. Yeah. You know, it's just kind of funny with, and so this, I'm going up to Fond du Lac tomorrow and I think I talked about this stuff briefly, but Kimmy had sent me a text today and well, let me step back a little bit. I've been talking about this whole travel thing for a long time and it's finally gotten to the point where.

Mike (20:56.573)
Yeah, right. And new toilets. Don't forget new toilets.

Bill (21:19.582)
where I can do it and Tomorrow I'm going up to Fond du Lac, Wisconsin I was I planned it because my grandson's birthday is on Sunday, but I found an Airbnb That's right on the bottom portion of Lake, Winnebago, which in Wisconsin is that huge fucking lake in the middle So it'd be kind of cool. It's snowed up there. Did I tell you that Mike? It just it just snowed like there was a chance of snow of anywhere between like three to seven inches and I'm like it and fucking figures, you know but either way, it'll be it'll be it is what it is, but I

Mike (21:36.413)
Right.

Uh -uh.

Mike (21:45.533)
Of course.

Bill (21:48.91)
Um, and then Kimmy had texted me and she's like, she's like, yeah, we got a decent amount of snow. She's like, you're not driving today. Are you? Is that tomorrow? And I said, no, not till tomorrow. It'll be fine. And, um, so we're getting together with obviously Kimmy's, uh, or I'm sorry, Ali's birthday on Sunday. Um, Kimmy, Brian, Ali, and then Derek and his girlfriend are coming up on Monday, um, for dinner. So I'm hanging out with them on Monday. And then Kimmy had said, she's like, oh, she's like, you know, I got nothing going on tomorrow. Ali and I.

Mike (22:11.197)
Cool.

Bill (22:17.326)
She said, maybe we'll run down. And I'm hitting my head. I'm like, oh my God, I have to see my kids like three days in a row. You know, again, joking because, you know, I've been down here in Indiana for a while and I still get to see them. But, and I'm like, man, this is, it's great. You know, once again, obviously there's a cost, you know, for doing all these different things, but the whole point of doing these things is, you know, kind of what, you know, what everything we talk about, you know, getting out there and experiencing these things. And.

Mike (22:23.485)
Hehehehehe

Bill (22:47.374)
What I mentioned before is, I mean, literally all this stuff is, you know, it's a financial puzzle. What I mean by that is, I mean, I'm obviously I'm working again. I've got some paychecks. I have my commissions are starting to come in. Nothing big yet, but I mean, there's all this stuff's building up, you know? And everything's going well, you know, with, with the job stuff. But there I'm, I'm kind of like, not even kind of, I'm like financing these different things, figuring out, okay, I got, I could do this thing on the side. Cause here's the thing through Airbnb.

where you can basically pay for a trip through this sideline finance thing. Now, even if you paid for it, you know, for 12 months, which I'm not going to do, it's relatively, it's a large percentage of interest, but for what I'm spending, it would be more, it'd be a hundred bucks, you know, or something like that in interest. But my point is, is to have, because these things, if I'm trying to book in advance, it could be a month or even a month and a half down the road that I'm trying to book someplace I want to be.

And rather than like put it on a credit card and have it take up that or pay for it. I could use this sideline thing, quote unquote, finance it for a couple of months and then pay it off. Just like I would be paying rent type of thing, you know? Um, but you know, I've got the, so I've got the weekend Fond du Lac. I'm back here in Indiana for a week. I got two weeks booked in the Ozarks again, cause I got a great deal on that one. And then I'm trying to figure out how to get down. I want to go, I've been wanting to go down to Texas cause I haven't been down there in a while.

So I'm trying to figure out that for May, but then we've got our anniversaries in April. So I got that figured in. And then to get down to Texas, I might make a stop for a week because I've got to do all this stuff on the weekends. I don't, I don't want to take off of work, you know, based on the fact that I'm building up this stuff and I don't have paid time yet. And I'm still within my first 90 days. It would be frowned upon for me to do it. So that's where it's a financial and a time struggle because to get from.

Mike (24:27.611)
Right.

Bill (24:41.038)
Even from being in Cleveland, because I might, you know, leave your place in Cleveland for our anniversaries and like go someplace like on the outskirts of Tennessee, which is like 10 hours. And then another 10 down to Texas. And then back from Texas to like Branson, Missouri, which obviously I stopped there when I was at the Ozarks last time. And then back up to Cleveland for Founders Day. Or no, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm trying to figure out. I really don't. I've got this all mapped out. Oh, I was trying to get it back up into Wisconsin for.

Mike (25:02.141)
Hmm.

Bill (25:10.862)
for at least a month of June, maybe even July, because of the kids and stuff like that. But it is, it's a puzzle that I'm trying to figure out, but it's a lot of fun. And I'm banking, kind of like financing some money around here and there, but you know the thing of it is, and just everything we've talked about is, I want to not only experience things, and I don't need things anymore, I decided that. I don't.

I just don't need items anymore. I'm trying to get rid of some of this shit. You know, I want to go places. I want to see, see places. I want to meet new people, see people, um, you know, spend time with my kids, spend time with my very good friend Mike over there and, and, you know, all the other people in Cleveland. Um, it just, that's, it's finally falling into place and you know, that's fucking cool because once again, this is what, this is what it's all for, right? We're doing all this, all this work and get to the point where.

Mike (25:41.533)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (26:07.306)
You know, we can spend our money on things that actually are not just meaningful to us, but hopefully meaningful to other people, right?

Mike (26:13.853)
Ah, new freedom and a new happiness.

Bill (26:17.23)
Right. Yeah. And I think, well, I don't even think now. I mean, if everything keeps lining up like it is, then I don't have to put up with, you know, I'm driving into snow tomorrow, which again, that is what it is, you know. But it just, when I first heard that, I'm like, fuck me, because I'm like, I already packed my boots because I want to be able to. And it's kind of like a big backyard. And I'll take pictures and stuff like that. But there's the backyard that goes out to the lake.

Mike (26:30.269)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (26:37.085)
Heheheheh

Bill (26:44.75)
because it literally is on the south end of the lake. So I should be able to walk out there and probably walk out on the dock and catch a sunrise and a sunset from the same place. But I'm like, man, there's not going to be like a foot of fucking snow, but they could have got six, seven inches of snow. And I'm like, yeah, well, I got fucking boots, so I'm fine.

Mike (26:53.789)
Alright.

Mike (27:02.269)
Exactly.

Bill (27:04.462)
But yeah, I mean, one way or the other, I get the fact that I get to, you know, hang out with the kids and they, especially on Monday, they get all, they all get to come up for dinner. And once again, you know, all this shit, you know, all these things we talk about, none of these things are possible. If we don't put to go back to what we were talking about, you know, first things first, right? Sobriety first, or none of these things are, are even close to being possible.

Mike (27:26.801)
Exactly. Oh hell no. Well, first of all, we'd be dead. Uh, that sort of removes a few possibilities. Yeah. And then, uh, right. Yeah. It would be miserable and we wouldn't have any money and yeah, right. Yeah. This is, this is much better. I'll do this a little bit of work so I can have this, uh, freedom and happiness. Absolutely.

Bill (27:31.244)
Yeah, right. Well, yeah, there's that. There is that.

Bill (27:50.734)
Yeah, and I think I think it was a couple years ago. I told my kids I'm like, like, you know what I said, I said, whatever, because Aunt Gail did it and, you know, it was and still does it, you know, with with Jody and Johnny and all that stuff is just she she had that mindset. You know, after Uncle John passed, she's like, you know what? I'm going to do things for people while I'm here. You know, the money that I have and whatever I want to go, I would go places and do things. And, you know, I kind of caught that, you know, it held on to that. And that's the same mentality I have, you know.

Mike (28:02.565)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:20.65)
Not that I don't want to have a little bit of, you know, maybe a little bit of money just in case, you know, an emergency fund or at least an emergency credit card, you know. Yeah, and I'm fine with that and I told my kid.

Mike (28:26.461)
Right. I was going to say, yeah, that's, that's what I've got. I got a couple of them that got, have a nice balance on them and I did, you know, a zero balance on them and you know, nice low credit limit. Yeah. If the shit hits the fan, I've got some money I can use. It's not my money, but it's money that some bank fucking lets me use if I need it.

Bill (28:47.15)
Right. Right. Yeah. And I mean, that in no doubt, I've been open about this. I mean, I've got some credit card debt to pay off. But, you know, by I just I needed to wait like probably another week from now. And if I can get these like the I should be able to get things, you know, kind of set and booked through like June, like through possibly the end of June, I should be able to get that set. And that gives me.

It gives me a couple of months to, you know, catch up on stuff. And, um, like I say that work things going well. And I, um, they're, they're talking about moving me up to the next level, which is what he wanted to hire me in to be, to begin with, uh, which means, you know, bigger accounts to work more money and, um, all that stuff. So he had, I had a meeting with my boss the other day and he's like, uh, because exactly what we expected you're doing well. And he said, we're looking at moving you up to the next level and this and that, if not April 1st, it would be May 1st. Um, so I'm like, I'm like, okay. Yeah, it's.

Mike (29:17.285)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (29:25.853)
Cool.

Bill (29:42.83)
And here, here's the other thing too. So for everyone out there, Mike knows this too. And if I think I mentioned it, but, um, after, I don't know how many years, 20 years of even if I wasn't titled as a manager being in semi management positions where I was in control of or responsible for people, I have fucking none of that anymore. None. I, I literally, I get paid by the hour, which I had to pay it hourly in a long time. And it's a decent hourly pay.

Mike (30:04.765)
Hehehehehe

Bill (30:12.366)
But the commission is what I'm, what I'm into. And then, you know, I, I clock in, I take, they give us 30 minute lunches throughout the week and we're done at three on Friday, which is beautiful to me. Um, and I just, I log on, I do my work. I take my lunch. I take my breaks. I am an all day, everyday worker. And that's all I want to be. And you know what? I'm, I'm, I'm happy doing it. And seriously, I can make a lot of fucking money doing it too. Just, just doing what I'm doing, you know? So there's.

Mike (30:30.717)
Right. Yeah.

Bill (30:40.814)
That's the bonus part of it. But literally, man, I don't have the, I don't have or want the headaches anymore. Just fucking don't, you know? Just don't.

Mike (30:48.093)
Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm with you, man. Yeah. That's why I do what I do. Tell me where to go. Tell me when to be there and leave me the fuck alone.

Bill (30:58.19)
Right? Yeah. And that's the thing. I mean, I, uh, and I can, I can, I can see it, you know, at the, our manager, our manager is so fucking cool. He's a good dude. He's a really good dude. I, I enjoy him. I like him as a person. Um, he's not unreasonable, you know, and basically if you do your work and stuff like that, you see the emails and the messages and the stuff go out, you know, they talk about all the, the criteria is we're supposed to hit and, you know, there may be certain days that I'm lower than what I should be, but.

Mike (31:18.107)
Right.

Bill (31:24.686)
The way that I look at it is the way that I've looked at it, thankfully, since I got sober. I'm going to continue to do the work. I know that if I do the work today, it's going to pay off tomorrow. You know, the old saying is, you know, some days you get eaten by the bear and some days, you know, you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you, you know. You're going to get fucked with every once in a while and things go your way. If you keep doing the work, it will pay off. So that's all I do. You know, I just keep, I just fucking log in to do my work and I get to go wherever I want. That's the cool part.

Mike (31:42.619)
Right.

Mike (31:54.437)
Yep. Yep.

Bill (31:54.798)
You know, that's the best way and I get all my shit after I got done with after I got done with work I you know took apart my monitors. I packed those in boxes. I get all my computer shit in the bag I'm back. I mean literally if I could pack all this stuff up just put in my car and go Then when I get to this place, I'm gonna set everything up and I'm gonna start working again. It's fucking amazing, you know

Mike (32:10.141)
Nice.

Mike (32:14.525)
Yeah, cool.

Bill (32:16.686)
Yeah, I know. I'm really, I'm I'm fucking, I'm excited about it. Just in a general sense to kind of kick around, but just kind of, I'm more excited about the fact that it's just, I enjoy, I don't know, just not having the, it's work, don't get me wrong, but it's just, it's work that I can handle and I don't have to handle other people's fucking work. I don't want to do that anymore.

Mike (32:40.285)
Right. Yeah. No shit, man. It's hard enough handling our own shit. I don't want to handle anybody else's shit either.

Bill (32:46.926)
Yeah, done fucking babysitting. So, all right, so I wanna, one of the thing, and I know we've talked about this before, but I think that's every once in a while, you know, repetition helps. So we just talked about, you know, obviously stay sober, do all these things, all the payoff, whatever. And I actually had something written down about that. I said, let's talk about the top three things that we do for our sobriety every day and the positive result that we get from each thing or as a group. It doesn't have to we don't have to be.

Mike (32:49.039)
Yelp.

Bill (33:14.926)
First thing I do is this, this is the positive result. I didn't mean that. But so what are the, what do you think the top three things that you do every day for your sobriety?

Mike (33:28.221)
Let's see. Top three things I do for my sobriety. Well, you know, the first one is I don't allow myself to get into a space where it's going to be okay to pick up a drink. I, you know, and again, do the simple little repetition things we talk about all the time, you know, the easy shit, man. It's not easy, but it's the simple things that they...

Bill (33:32.782)
Yep.

Bill (33:55.342)
Hehehe!

Mike (33:56.733)
tell us to do, you know, pray, go to meetings, help another drunk. Um, and you know, yeah, I, do I do all of those things every day? No, I don't go to meetings every day. Um, I, I pray every day. Yes. This atheist praise every day cause they told me to. And so I do the action. Um, you know, read my readings, get my head straight, you know, do the next right thing, be a good boy. The simple stuff. I mean, it's.

I don't, at this point, I don't like have to consciously go, Oh, I've got to go do this thing for my sobriety today. Um, everything I do, you know, don't let myself get too angry. Don't get myself get too involved in my feelings. Don't, you know, but again, this is the way I live my life today. So it's not. Yeah. It's not really doing things. It's doing the next right thing. It's it's it's.

Bill (34:33.774)
Heheheheh

Mike (34:54.621)
Being a good boy, you know, and, and, and stopping myself from, you know, being my true self, um, doing things for other people, simple things, you know, um, you know, you walk into a store and, and, and, and, you know, hold the door for somebody or something. I mean, I don't fucking care. I don't, I don't give a shit. You know, I mean, catch out of the corner of my eye, you know, somebody's heading towards the door too.

Bill (35:04.462)
Heheheheh.

Mike (35:21.821)
My old way was, oh well, I made it to the door first. I guess you're gonna have to open the door for yourself. Fuck you. But no, I take, you know, now again, but it's part of life. I pause for that half a second and let them catch up and hold the door for them. You know, again, it's not something I wanna do. It's just something that I do now because it is the next right thing to do. Little simple shit. You know, I live my life in a way.

Bill (35:29.518)
Heheheheh

Mike (35:51.645)
that I, when I lay my head down at night, I know I did that. I took that half a second out of my life for that next person. And so therefore I don't need to medicate myself and cover shit up that, you know, I let that door slam and fuck them. Yeah, little shit, little shit. I don't know, I'm rambling, because there's no way to just specifically.

I just do the next right thing always. And well, not always, but as much as I, as I can, and as much as this self selfish, self centered drunk can and, um, yeah, you know, live life to its fullest, you know, eh, fuck it. It's all right.

Bill (36:43.086)
No, and it was funny when I wrote it down, I actually had in parentheses, you know, in case it was newer people and stuff like that. But as I was reading it, I'm like, and as you were starting to talk about, I'm like, that's actually a harder question to answer because in you, and you hit it exactly kind of like right on the head when you're like, you're like, man, it just, I just do these things every day. It's not really three things. It's a way that I live my life. It's just how it is these days and in whatever, which I, which I think was.

Mike (36:56.603)
Yeah.

Mike (37:06.013)
Yeah. Uh huh.

Bill (37:10.99)
I think that was more enlightening because when I literally when I wrote it down, I'm like, oh, I'm like, OK, do my readings, do my prayers or whatever, you know, these first things that pop off my head. But it's not just that it is. There's so much more. It's like when we talk about the fact of being sober is more than just putting down the booze, you know, and not drinking or putting down the drugs and not using, you know, there's there's all these different things that that word sober or sobriety means, which is kind of what this came down to. I mean, yes, I.

I do my readings every morning, you know you do too. I do my prayers every morning, you do too. I do my wrap up at night, fine. That's technically, that's one thing in my head because it's all the same process just done at two different times. But all the other things like you said, you know, I mean, am I being a good person? Am I trying to help somebody? Am I not being a dick to people? Am I all these different things? You know, it's my lifestyle. And I just thought about it and I didn't remember where I was.

Mike (37:50.629)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (38:08.462)
last weekend and I didn't think about it until you just said, you know, holding a door for somebody. I, wherever I was, I was walking through, it was either a gas station or maybe when I went to the firehouse for lunch or whatever it was. Again, a napkin laying on the floor. I walked by, I picked it up and I threw it in the garbage, you know? And just simple like that. It never even crossed my mind, but I saw it and I'm like, eh, okay, I'll pick it up. But there is still, there is still that pause there, you know?

Mike (38:23.677)
Mmm. Yep.

Bill (38:37.358)
And there is still, I recognize what I'm doing. You know, I realized that it's not just, you know, it's not habit, you know, for me to reach down and do something like that. It is a conscious effort, but I don't think about it afterwards going, ooh, look at me. I just made the world a better place. But so.

Mike (38:37.693)
course.

Mike (38:53.437)
Right. Uh -huh.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just it. It's not. It's just it just is. And so we do it. Yeah. It's not. Look at me. I'm fucking wonderful. I picked up a goddamn napkin. No, I just did it because it was there and it needed to be done. And so I did it. Moving on.

Bill (39:10.414)
All right.

Bill (39:18.03)
Right. But I think that to wrap that whole thing up, if you are new or new -ish and you had a pen out to write down the three things, we just gave you about probably 18, 19, or 20 things. The main point to keep this really, really simple is just try every day. Mike said it the best way and we say it all the time. Do the next right thing. That's all you gotta do. If you start with that, all these other things will fall into place. And if you're doing the next right thing, it keeps you away from doing.

Mike (39:26.493)
Hahaha!

Bill (39:47.886)
next wrong thing. What do you say act your way don't think your way and be in a better whatever what's that again what you're saying?

Mike (39:49.981)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (39:56.381)
Yeah, right. Well, that was actually Joe's. Yeah. You know, uh, AA is the exact opposite of psychology and psychology and psychiatry and right. You know, they want to change the way you think so that you act differently and, uh, AA wants to change the way you act. So you think differently.

Bill (40:00.526)
Oh yeah.

Bill (40:14.574)
Yeah, so there, that's what you gotta do. Act as if, as we say, act as if. All right, man, so you know what we're gonna act as if now? We're gonna act as if we're fucking done because, I don't know, I don't wanna kind of jinx it here, but so here was the trick. Did you hear any delays, Mike, through this timeframe at all or no? Through our last little.

Mike (40:17.213)
Yep.

Mike (40:32.957)
Um, I mean, you know, there was a little bit, yeah, there's, there is a slight one now and there was a couple of times where you buzzed and dropped and, uh, yeah, so I'm thinking it's not my ethernet cable, but who fucking knows.

Bill (40:47.47)
Yeah, I mean, and you did too. You did a little bit of the buzz, like even just now when you were telling me about the buzz part, you did like a little bit of a buzz like that. But I think when we had the delay, it was less. So I don't know, for whatever reason, we're getting less of a delay. So maybe for whatever reason, the Wi -Fi is. We had Mike unplug his ethernet cable, you know, so he's on Wi -Fi now versus being plugged in, which if that is the fix, it'd be fucking weird. But.

Mike (40:55.005)
Nice.

Bill (41:15.33)
I don't know why that would be unless the cable was bad. But either way, I think we had a better session here for the last 41 minutes. So let's not press our luck. Why don't we get out of here? What do you think?

Mike (41:27.709)
Let's get the fuck out of here. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober not mature. So it's be kind to each other. Be good to each other. Pick up that fucking napkin. Don't tell anybody you did it. And now it's time kids. It is that time. It is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream.

Bill (41:30.4)
Yeah.

Mike (41:56.293)
And keep fucking off forever.

Bill (41:59.886)
I guess I kind of ruined it since I told you I picked up the napkin. Fuck. God damn it. Jesus. I will. I will. I'll try. I'll keep trying to do the next right thing and then not tell anyone about it. So, all right. So, yeah, I think we pressed our luck. But you know what? Once again, I think we did some goddamn good work here. Like, yeah, whatever. All right, man. Yeah, we sure did. All right, everyone, watch for pictures of...

Mike (42:05.341)
You'll do better next time. More will be revealed.

Mike (42:21.437)
Sure, why not?

We filled time anyway.

Bill (42:29.58)
of sunsets and then my grandson over the next couple of days and then next week I'll be in Wisconsin and we'll see if that internet's all fucked up too. But for now, Mike, I love you brother. We'll talk soon and bye.

Mike (42:39.421)
Love you too.