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This week we have... yep, it's us! And a Good Friday to all of you.
Mike started off with his reading and it was about acceptance. It's one of our favorite topics and it was a good conversation.
Mike also had a day of "acceptance."
Sober dreams, accepting mistakes, trusting the process, not regretting the past (nor wishing to shut the door on it), what's in your heart will be spoken and stepping into the day with all of your heart.
It was smorgasbord of topics, from your favorite judgmental douche bags.
Enjoy the episode.
Visit us
Podcast www.sobernotmature.com
Bill (00:02.356)
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And I'm coming from you live from Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Well, you know what? I a little story. How's that? Let's start off with a story. So Wisconsin has some, well, you know, you've driven around Wisconsin enough during your trucking years, but Wisconsin has some really fucked up city and town names.
Mike (00:11.901)
Is that how the locals pronounce it?
Mike (00:18.907)
Alright.
Mike (00:31.325)
Right. Well, I mean, it's a lot like Michigan, a lot of French shit and a lot of Indian shit.
Bill (00:36.014)
Yeah, exactly. And that's, I was just going to say there's a lot of Indian heritage in the names, which is, I don't know, kind of weirdish because I mean, it's a German heritage in this area too, but either way. No, I know, I know. But I mean, just you figure when the towns came in, I mean, I don't know. I mean, were the towns named because of? I've never really looked into all the history, but I agree. That was probably kind of insensitive of me to say that.
Mike (00:47.101)
I believe the Indians had it first before the Germans.
Mike (01:03.133)
Well, you know, the Germans do like to invade places, so I've heard.
Bill (01:03.572)
Well, you know what? Chalk it up to this.
Yeah, that's that is fucking true that is true so but at least you know, it's Cleveland You know that the Irish people invaded that area, right? So what's I'm from the west side of Cleveland and I'm an alcoholic no shit Irish Catholic So Fond du Lac pretty simply it's spelled weird to begin with it It's F O N D and then capital D U and then capital L A C so three separate words and it's
Mike (01:16.797)
Yes they did.
Mike (01:22.979)
Yep.
Mike (01:35.995)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (01:36.718)
pronounced and just said Fondulac, but for years, every once in a while I would hear, because I mean, in Christ, I lived here for 30 plus years combined. And yeah, people would say Fondulac. And it just kind of, it popped into my head when I was up here during the weekend. I'm like, I don't remember, there's not a J in the entire fucking thing, but is the D -U -J? I mean, I don't know. It's just messed up. But yeah, I'm sitting here.
Mike (01:44.637)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (01:49.053)
Ah!
Mike (02:02.237)
Heheheheh
Bill (02:06.542)
This is where I had my work computer set up and I'm staring out at the lake right now. So if I appear to like doze off, I'm just gazing. That's all. So.
Mike (02:14.653)
Enjoying the beauty of the world.
Bill (02:18.83)
Yeah, I'll tell you, man, it's it was raining for like the first, you know, four days off and on. But, um, yeah, cleared up, I think on Wednesday is when I got the, when I got the sunset and the, the way I'm, I'm under the lake. I wasn't able to, I was up early enough, but I kind of peeked out and I, there's no docks out right now, obviously because of the winter and stuff like that. So, um, I don't know that I would have got much of a sunrise. So I just, I didn't even try on that, but it was cool with the sunset and there's a lighthouse and stuff like that just over there that I got pictures of when I came in. So.
Mike (02:37.147)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (02:48.384)
It's nice. I mean, it's it's I've got a couple of rednecks that live next door and So this is funny too I get here on Saturday I get all my shit in here and I mean I'm emptying my card It literally looked like I was moving in because I mean I got my table. I got my computers I got my computer screens. I got all this shit fucking six trips. I think I took to get in, you everything in the house and I stand outside in the on the deck and I was so was vaping a little bit I came back in and I was trying to get the TV set up with my chromecast
Mike (02:53.469)
Hehehehehe
Mike (03:04.445)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (03:16.75)
I looked out and these guys are out by the lake, just two of them. They started a fire. I'm like, ah, fuck. Because I'm thinking, you know, just want to go outside and vape every once in a while. I'd rather like, I don't know. I just want to sit there by myself. I don't, you know. Now, yeah. That truly is, I'm like, I don't want to socialize with these fucking redneck motherfuckers, you know? So.
Mike (03:24.923)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (03:28.605)
Right, not looking to socialize. I have enough friends. Thank you very much.
Mike (03:37.789)
Hehehehehe
Bill (03:39.47)
And I'm not shitting you, they're dressed in, well, first when I came in, they were, they were working on a car. So typical redneck stuff working on a car, although I've worked on cars before. So any rednecks out there, I'm just messing around, but how about backwoods boys? If nothing else, I don't care. But so all said and done, it's like, you know, it's like seven o 'clock or something like that. And so they start lighting a fire out there and like, Oh, yeah, it's cold. It's like in the mid thirties and the wind was kicking up. And I'm like, it's kind of weird, but I'm not shitting you. They sat out there. They had a cooler.
Mike (03:50.331)
Uh -huh.
Sure.
Bill (04:09.582)
And from seven o 'clock and the last time I looked out there was like 11 and they were they were still out there. So for four fucking hour, it was fucking freezing. But they literally just and they didn't sit. They just stood and like stared out at the lake. It looked like, you know, the dudes from King of the Hill or something like that. Just two of them, but just staring out at the lake, you know, and I'm like, OK, you know, I mean, nothing against hanging out on Saturday night and drinking some beer. I was all about that while I was drinking. But, you know, in.
Mike (04:30.703)
Uh -huh.
Mike (04:35.933)
Sure.
Bill (04:38.126)
In the middle of March in Wisconsin when it's 30 fucking degrees and the windchill is probably 20, if not colder than that, I'm like, it just didn't, I don't know, I'd sit inside and drink, I think, but anyhow.
Mike (04:43.293)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (04:47.517)
Yeah, yeah, well, you know.
Bill (04:50.702)
To each his own as they say, right?
Mike (04:55.055)
Absolutely.
Bill (04:56.654)
So let's start off real quick before you do your reading. And obviously I'm in a different location, so different internet set up. And I don't want to tell on myself, but I'm going to. I'm telling on myself from a technology standpoint, okay? So we're going through all this crap. And remember when I kept saying, I'm like, it's fine with my work and I'm not getting any interruptions with my phone calls or anything like that. I wasn't thinking, I'm sitting there questioning your cable, thinking maybe something's wrong with your physical ethernet cable.
Mike (05:10.779)
Alright.
Mike (05:18.717)
Right?
Mike (05:23.837)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Bill (05:25.902)
I wasn't thinking about the fact my main cable, like the exact one that I bought for you and I bought, that's hooked up to my work computer when I'm at Kathy's. And I had this other like hundred foot cable, this little thin ethernet cable hooked up to this. Cause why, why unplug and go behind the desk and do all that stuff? Didn't think about it till I was packing my shit up. I'm like, Oh fuck it. It might be me. So I didn't want to tell on myself, but I'm like, fuck it. It's, you know, honestly.
Mike (05:30.877)
Right. Okay. Yeah.
Mike (05:40.701)
Mmm.
Sure.
Mike (05:48.783)
Mwahahahah
That's kind of what we were taught to do. We have to tell on ourselves.
Bill (05:57.166)
I know. Right. But so here's the thing. It could be the different location. That's one. It could be the cable, but we have one. We have. Right. There's one more Friday next week. I'll be, I'll be in Valpo. I'll have the cable and I'll have the, the Valpo internet. We'll see if it works. If it works, then we know for sure it was the fucking cable and it was me. So, yeah. So I know. Yeah. Although you just, you just kind of a static, you just static doubt for a minute. So.
Mike (06:02.973)
Mm -hmm. Right, there are different factors, right.
Mike (06:16.061)
All right then. Good.
Mike (06:26.461)
Did I? All right, well, maybe it's me. Are we? Already?
Bill (06:29.294)
Yep, are you delaying now too? God, didn't...
Yeah, I don't know if it's delaying, but I hear static on your end. Just make sure your cables are like your mic and everything is all like tight or whatever. Make sure your cable's tight there, buddy.
Mike (06:43.133)
Yeah, yeah, they are. Everything's all tight.
Bill (06:49.518)
Okay. Yeah, it was just, yeah, now I'm getting static too as you were trying to mess with the cable, I'm guessing, but so there.
Mike (06:55.837)
Well, maybe. Yeah, but that doesn't make any damn sense.
Bill (07:04.046)
Yeah, it's not static anymore. You're good. You're good now.
Mike (07:07.037)
Okay. All right.
Bill (07:09.742)
So I think we're back, fuck it, you know, whatever. Everyone's gotten used to this shit anyhow, so let's just pop in. I've talked for seven minutes and 14 seconds on fucking nonsense, so why don't we get some, let's roll some good thoughts around in our head and go from there. What do you say? And then you've got a story about the Buncher Workday too, which we'll get into.
Mike (07:21.245)
Okay.
Mike (07:25.917)
Sure, why not?
Heh heh.
Mike (07:33.565)
Oh, yes, I do. I do. All right. Um, I actually had half a minute here. So I, uh, cracked it open and looked around a little bit and found this little gem, uh, August 7th. Uh, again, it's always as, uh, as always, this is from God grant me. Um, and it's August 7th and it is here. Be willing to have it. So acceptance of what has happened is the first step.
to overcoming the consequences of any misfortune. William James, I believe we've read a quote from him before, he was a philosopher and a psychiatrist. All right, we addicts are not known for being willing to accept the truth. For years we pretended that there were no problem, that there was no problem. Some of us, even in recovery, pretend that our problem was less than what it was.
The Serenity Prayer asks us to accept the things we cannot change. We hear people say at meetings, I think I finally accepted the first step. Why so much talk about acceptance? The function of acceptance is energy conservation. We addicts waste a huge amount of time and energy struggling to make things happen that will never happen. In recovery, we work to practice acceptance.
because we need the energy to build a sober life. Prayer for the day. Higher power. Today, help me to accept the things I cannot change, to change the things that I can, and to have the wisdom to know the difference. Today's action, because this is a program of action. Today, I will reflect on this question. What are the things I'm not willing to surrender over to my higher power?
then I will write out my answer.
Bill (09:32.142)
All right, so I've heard that acceptance is key. Is that kind of the point of this reading? No, but I like that. I remember that reading and I mean anything when it comes to acceptance, willingness, openness, obviously honesty, you know, is something that's a primary, but yeah, the acceptance, the willingness and the openness, you know, to...
Mike (09:40.701)
Yes.
Bill (10:00.782)
for all of this stuff I think is hugely important. So let's begin with that last part. Is there anything right now, because I mean we always talk about our will and we talked about that. I love the fact of, to go back to one episode that was a couple episodes ago, that reading about will versus willingness and that sort of thing. If anyone's listening to this, just go back and read the descriptions.
Mike (10:22.461)
Oh yeah, yeah.
Bill (10:28.014)
I've got it in the description. It was two or three episodes ago. So we're in 110. It might've been 107 or 108, something like that. But Mike had a really good reading and it talked about will versus willingness. Will versus willingness and then.
Mike (10:35.837)
sounds about right.
Mike (10:43.581)
Well, actually it was will versus self will.
Bill (10:46.222)
Oh, self -will, I'm sorry. And then willingness was part of that too, correct or no?
Mike (10:50.525)
Well, yeah, I mean, it's all in there, but yeah, I mean, the reading itself was basically focused on will versus self will.
Bill (10:57.326)
Okay, that's right. Yeah, I apologize, but that is in the description if you guys haven't listened to it Go back to that. It might be halfway through but listen to the whole episode because I'm not gonna tell you where it was. So Exactly But so we've talked about it before but is there anything that that you think right now? That you or maybe even along the way that you've had trouble Surrendering or being willing to surrender or give up or that sort of thing?
Mike (11:07.581)
Right, because we don't know.
Mike (11:26.907)
Um, I mean, this time around, not really. Um, I mean, there are some things, you know, well, this self centeredness and selfishness is always a, that's an ongoing things to let go of. Um, I'm certainly better at it now that I was, um, but not, not really. I mean, um, I, I,
Bill (11:53.102)
Hehehe
Mike (11:53.405)
It's all about doing that first step 100%, which working the rest of the steps, if you don't do that first step 100%, it's kind of a waste of time. Talk about wasting time and resources and energy. So, I mean, I did this time around, almost 14 years ago, I did and do that first step 100 % every day. So,
Yeah, there's really nothing that I don't that I'm like trying to hang on to and really trying to control myself. Not totally. I mean, there are things that I have to control, you know, when I'm driving 80 ,000 pounds of steel and rubber and plastic down the road, there are things I have to control. I can't just go, you take it Lord or whatever the hell. And, you know, that's right. Climb over in the other seat.
Bill (12:38.446)
Heheheheh
Bill (12:46.206)
Lord take the wheel.
Mike (12:52.239)
see what happens because I'm putting my trust in a power or greater. No. Um, yeah, clearly there are things that I have to control, but, um, the big stuff, not really, man. Um, there's, I know I don't have control. I know my life is unmanageable. Um, and I need other things to manage it. And the funny thing is when I allow those things to manage it, the principles of this program, um,
My life turns out pretty well and I don't have, it's freeing. I don't have to control everything. So it's kind of nice. I have to do things, but I don't have to control everything.
Bill (13:35.246)
Right. Yeah. And, uh, and like you said, there's certain things we have to control. And I had, uh, that was a, um, a struggle that I had to begin with when I first started looking for, for work. I mean, obviously, you know, I had that factory job to begin with for a few weeks, but I was focusing on sales jobs and things like that, because in the collection industry, literally you're, it's a control type of atmosphere just is sales is to, you know, controlling conversation.
Mike (13:50.427)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (14:00.219)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (14:03.054)
But I had this thing in my head where I'm like, I just don't know if I can, um, if I can get back into that atmosphere. But I mean, I learned, you know, to, to separate that and I've been in and around the collection business, not my entire sobriety time, but a good portion of it. And it is, it's, um, it, it's a, it's a, it's a separation, you know, it's a balance, I guess. I don't, I don't, um, I don't know. I don't use my will, uh, in a, in a bad way. I'm using it from a work sense, but from the surrender standpoint,
Mike (14:25.691)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (14:32.942)
I know to begin with when I first got sober, the thing that I wasn't surrendering, I wasn't surrendering to the simplicity of this program. I just thought about that when, as you were talking, and that's the whole, can it be that simple type of thing? But these days, I mean, I don't know, if something isn't going my way, immediately I wanna step back. Because I...
I recognize now when I'm trying to force things. So, you know, I guess I'm surrendering in those situations because if I start to feel uncomfortable, like I'm starting to push things or force things, I do, I stop and I step back and I guess I surrender, right? That'd be a way, yeah. Explain? Yeah.
Mike (15:17.053)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Giving up control, surrendering. Yes, absolutely.
Bill (15:24.558)
Yeah. And you know what? I mean, still, you know, cause it, uh, you know, we talked about it endlessly that I'm, I'm still an egotist, I think more controlled speaking of control than I used to be, but, um, it's hard sometimes, you know, I mean, I don't want to give up. None of us want to give up control. Most alcoholics and addicts are controlling people, you know, strong willed, if nothing else, you know, and that, that strong will, you know, can, can lead to, you know, control problems. But, you know, that goes back to a couple of other things I wrote down were, you know, not willing to accept.
Mike (15:32.219)
Mm.
Mike (15:43.549)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Bill (15:54.348)
And I think that just that in a general sense, you know, not willing to accept anything, whether it be, and I don't even want to say defeat, that's a bad way to put it, but you know, accept the fact of when would we need to step aside, when we need to give up control, when we need to, you know, just accept the situation as it is what it is, you know, which I used to hate that saying, but now I like it.
Mike (16:05.885)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (16:16.763)
Uh huh. Uh huh. Oh right.
Bill (16:22.766)
But it is, it's funny how much I used to despise that. It is what it is because, because that's a, that's a true example of that saying in and of itself tells you, you don't have control. You know, it is what it is. There's no wiggle room. There's no nothing. And I know that's why I didn't like it. And it was easily, I was back in Wisconsin when I came to grips with that saying. So I was probably four to five years sober, you know, before I, before I gave up that. So.
Mike (16:35.037)
Right.
Mike (16:51.373)
All right.
Bill (16:52.462)
I wasn't young in this thing at the time that I'll still try to hold on to control it is what it is. But so the other thing that I wrote down was a problem was less than what it was. So we talked about that a little bit a couple of weeks ago. But I mean, that happened with both of us all the time, right?
Mike (17:10.525)
Oh, most definitely. Yeah. Yeah. The problems we make things bigger than they actually are. And it's, um, and it's again, that waste of energy, you know, um, most problems are fairly small and most problems take care of themselves in the long run. Um, we don't need to force and control and put our will into it and make it, make it resolve itself. It's.
generally going to resolve itself. We have to be engaged and part of things, but yeah, we're not, I'm not all that much. I'm really not. I'm not all that powerful. I'm not all that important. It's just, it's just, you know, I'm doing my little thing and let everything else around me do its thing and it'll be fine.
Bill (17:48.75)
Ha ha ha ha.
Bill (18:01.998)
But that is true and that was the other thing I wrote down. I wrote down waste time and energy, which is exactly what you were just talking about. Because I like the fact that we talked about it enough, but the fact that you just repeated that there are so many, it even may, I mean that we may look at as problems, so many situations, so many things, so many items or circumstances that will work themselves out on their own. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, but usually even if we think,
it goes into the worst column. There's a reason for it at some point. We don't know what it is now, at least not right now, but I think more will be revealed, right? I think that's...
Mike (18:38.043)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (18:43.709)
I've heard that somewhere. Yes, I think I read it somewhere.
Bill (18:46.126)
Yeah, heard it, read it. I think we talked about it a couple of weeks ago too. But yeah, and then the obviously I wrote down that they're not willing to surrender. But the other thing that I wrote down, the last thing was practice acceptance. So, you know, for anyone who is, let's say we got some people out there, hopefully that are listening to us that are new -ish. How would you explain to somebody that this is how you practice acceptance?
Mike (18:52.445)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (19:15.165)
Well, you know, because again, my first reaction is, you know, I'm going to fix it, especially, you know, as men, you know, we're going to fix things. That's been a big part of, you know, interpersonal relationships with people, you know, I mean, you know, hear it all the time that Mars, Venus, Crapola, but that was something that I actually learned from that, you know, that women,
Bill (19:15.918)
Heheheheh
Bill (19:40.118)
Oh yeah.
Mike (19:44.443)
Women don't want you to fix it, man. They just, they just want to tell you about it and have you understand, um, you know, as men, we, we want to jump in there and as alcoholic men, we really want to jump in there and fix the problem. Um, and so, yeah, you know, practicing the acceptance. Yeah, that's, that's a situation. Yes, it is. That's going on right now. Yes, it is. Hey, guess what? There's not a goddamn thing I could do about it, except be here.
Bill (19:56.782)
Hehehehe...
Mike (20:12.925)
and lend support in any way that I can. And yeah, you know, practice. But again, yes, my first inclination is to jump in there and make it right. Whatever, you know, but maybe my fucking version of right isn't right. I've got to remember that too. That's that's all part of this practice.
Bill (20:28.558)
Ha ha!
Right. Well, and the one thing that I've learned over the years and people say it, to me it's kind of a cliche statement, but you know, if there's anything I can help with, please let me know. And I always, if I say that to somebody, and I think I said it to you recently when you called me that one time, recently when you called me and I just said, you know, I'll say this exact statement. I'm like, everyone says it and I have no idea what I can do, but if I can help.
Mike (20:49.853)
Mm -hmm, yep.
Mike (20:59.837)
Mm -hmm, right. Yeah.
Bill (21:01.038)
please let me know. And I'm just, I'm qualifying it with how ridiculous the statement is, but also understanding, I mean, but literally also, also understanding and let the person know that, hey, I know it's cliche. I know everyone says it, but I mean it, but I'm just recognizing the fact that I have no fucking idea what I could do. But if there is anything, you know, ask me, that's all.
Mike (21:07.163)
Hehehehehe
Mike (21:13.927)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (21:18.909)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I'm, I'm here to help, even though there's not a goddamn thing I can do. Yeah. And that's it. That's practicing it and knowing your limitations. That's a huge part of it. Yeah.
Bill (21:25.038)
Heheheheh
Right? Yeah. And I've...
Bill (21:34.446)
Right. Well, even with my kids, I mean, my kids, obviously, your daughter's an adult. I my kids are adults. And the only thing I ever tell them is I'm like, I don't know that I could ever help you. I always want to help you. I don't know whether it's money, whether it's a circumstance, whether it's a thing, whatever the deal is, you can always ask if I can help in any way, even in a small way, I will. But I don't have an opportunity to help you.
Mike (21:51.133)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (22:04.078)
or to help you try to fix something, back to fixing, but then offering help like that way. But if I don't know what's going on, I don't know that I can help. I don't know if or if I can help. And I'll be honest with you, if I can't help, I'd be like, fuck man, I don't have a goddamn clue. I had no idea. Like you said, you said this many, many, many episodes ago. You know, sometimes all you can do is be that shoulder for somebody to lean their head on. That's all you can do.
Mike (22:20.763)
Uh huh.
Mike (22:31.837)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Bill (22:33.678)
I think you said warm body. I think that came up in the conversation. Right? Yeah, you're a 57 year old. You can still hold heat every once in a while, right? But.
Mike (22:38.685)
Yeah. Semi warm body anyway.
Mike (22:49.021)
Right. Shoulders always slightly droopy. So yeah, they're still there though.
Bill (22:55.182)
Right. Yeah, there's a, there's an area, there's a bone under there that you, well, okay, let me not, I almost got into, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't even trying to look at what I did. What I did. There's a shoulder bone there, a shoulder bone. But you know, you know, as funny as when we were talking about the whole acceptance and not forcing things and stuff like that with the reading. And I made a note to bring this up. And this was part of, this was our,
Mike (23:05.789)
I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cheers.
Bill (23:24.078)
our episode clip from a year ago. One year ago this week was when we talked about, remember Little Dicky that was supposed to be on? Yeah, yeah, the dude that kept going back and forth and canceled on us like three times. And finally we're like, you know what, we're fucking done. And then we didn't give his name, although we were promoting him for like three fucking weeks or three different timeframes. And then just kind of nicely made fun of him through the entire episode. But.
Mike (23:33.821)
Oh yeah, I vaguely.
Mike (23:39.357)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Mike (23:47.613)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (23:53.742)
That was a clip that we just had when it was like towards the end that both of us kind of came to the conclusion that, you know, continuing to give this guy opportunities was we're trying to force something that, you know, just wasn't happening. So we just decided to, there it was, it was acceptance. We fucking gave up and then made fun of him for an entire half an episode, I think. Yeah.
Mike (24:17.373)
That's right. Yeah. Well, you know, we're still working on this thing.
Bill (24:22.542)
Right, but I mean that was a lot of fun. It just that in that that whole thing, I don't know. I'm still glad that we took that stance because I think that in this wasn't in the clip, but I remember us talking about that we probably have some sort of price. You know that we're willing to be, you know, give up our whatever dignity or integrity we have. But you know that that wasn't that wasn't it so.
Mike (24:41.519)
Uh huh. That was not it. There clearly weren't enough zeros involved in that.
Bill (24:49.934)
Well, there was a big zero involved in that, but it wasn't attached to any money, that's for goddamn sure. So anything else with the reading at all? I think we.
Mike (24:51.997)
Yeah, that was right.
Mike (24:57.949)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (25:02.845)
No, no, just, uh, you know, I thought acceptance was a nice theme for me today. So there we go.
Bill (25:09.134)
Yeah, I mean, I like the reading and speaking of that though, let's talk about how your day was, your acceptance. What time did you text me? I don't remember what time you texted me.
Mike (25:16.733)
Hehehehehe
Mike (25:22.269)
I, uh, the first time I do not know. I'm sure it was probably between 11 and 12, something like that real time. Yeah. It was this morning. Yeah. Well, you know, um, again, talk about, uh, controlling things and, uh, all that good stuff. Yeah. I had a, I had a, well, I'm, I'm coming to our sister Cathy's tomorrow, uh, for the Easter holiday, the keister day zombie Jesus day.
Bill (25:29.71)
Oh, yeah. Yep. Gotcha.
Bill (25:49.966)
Ha ha.
Mike (25:51.613)
Um, and, uh, yeah, so I had a, uh, fairly light day today, uh, work wise. I was going to be done early. I had some plans to get some things done after work in preparation for this little trip since I'm not going to be home this weekend and, uh, whatever. Anyway, so, uh, yeah, things are going along. I've got two loads. I had to run an Amazon load and then I had to go over to Pennsylvania and pick up a preloaded trailer.
Bring it back to Cleveland. And that was my day. Uh, so I did the, uh, Randall Amazon load and I'm on the freeway. I'm in Pennsylvania. I'm probably half hour, 45 minutes away from where I needed to pick up this trailer and the dashboard on the truck lit up. Uh, yes, the warning signs you need to shut this thing down now.
Bill (26:41.71)
Heheheheh
Mike (26:49.917)
Um, and I went, Oh crap. Uh, actually the same thing happened to the same truck about four or five months ago. It blew a coolant line and so it didn't have any coolant in it. Well, it was blowing it out the bottom and all over the road. And, uh, yeah. So I, uh, I east it to the nearest exit and shut it down. And yeah, uh, called roadside and had to wait for a tow truck.
for about three hours and oh yeah, well, it took about an hour to get everything with roadside, cause I don't know what the hell was going on there, but yes, just powerlessness left and right. And then about two hours till the guy got there with tow truck and then hooking up and tow it 90 minutes back to the shop in Ohio. And yeah, basically I didn't, I didn't get back.
Bill (27:22.158)
Oh my god, really? Wow.
Bill (27:43.214)
Heheheheh
Mike (27:47.293)
to Cleveland and to my car until almost 6 .30 at night. I was planning, right, I was planning on being home about 1 .32 in the afternoon. So yeah, that was my day. The truck is in the shop. I am here in one piece. I got my pizza and doing a podcast. So apparently it's all okay, but Jesus Christ, yes. It was a fun day. Lots of fun moments.
Bill (27:51.438)
Heheheheh
Bill (28:09.71)
Heheheheh
Bill (28:17.454)
Well, and that's a great thing with the acceptance thing and all that stuff too. I didn't realize that, I mean, I knew the back and forth and I don't know what you said waiting that long. When my car broke down, when I was up in Beaver Dam, I it easily took, I spent probably an hour trying to get to the point where they were sending somebody to me and then another half hour or 45. It was from the time I broke down to the time I got back to that house, it was five hours. But...
Mike (28:29.275)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (28:37.501)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (28:44.349)
Well, well.
Bill (28:46.446)
you know, part of that was waiting for trying to catch an Uber for like an hour and a half and fucking Beaver Dam, Wisconsin. But yeah, I mean, it's again, you know, I remember sitting on the side of the road then and, you know, I took a picture of my car and it was just kind of like I posted on Instagram. I'm like, yeah, life on life's terms. Or I said some shit like that because, you know, it's.
Mike (28:50.717)
Huh?
Mike (29:04.733)
Some kind of shit like that.
Bill (29:08.078)
I mean, it was, it was some stupid, you know, some cliche, you know, sobriety saying, because in, it had helped me to post that because I'm like, I had to tell myself that this is not a big deal. And I wasn't freaking out. I mean, I, I thought I knew what the problem was. I thought it was going to be about a thousand bucks to fix. And I knew it was going to take a while to get all this shit out. The only thing I didn't know was the Uber, you know, but that's the only thing that was getting me, I wasn't even getting mad. I'm just like, it would have taken me literally like.
Mike (29:12.389)
Uh -huh.
Bill (29:36.014)
and a half hours to walk back to that house from where I was and I'm like I don't want to do that. I'm gonna fucking do that. But um yeah I mean that's uh and I mean thankfully it sounds like with this with the company that you're with you do not have too many equipment problems right?
Mike (29:39.389)
Right? Mm -mm. No.
Mike (29:52.381)
No, no, no. I mean, I'm in a, you know, I'm in a 2023, you know, basically brand new. I mean, I, when I went and picked this truck up in Toledo, it had 18 miles on it. It's now got 68 ,000. Um, yeah, you know, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's a new truck. Um, you know, they, they do maintenance, they take care of, yeah, it's all good. Just, you know, shit happens occasionally. And it just happened to happen today when I had things to do.
Bill (29:54.382)
Right.
Bill (30:04.654)
Right.
Mike (30:21.213)
Hehehehehe
Bill (30:21.614)
Yeah, why couldn't it happen on a day when you had nothing to do and it would be you could actually use a use a little bit of a break to sit down the side of the road. I don't know looking at social media or some stupid shit, you know.
Mike (30:25.757)
Yeah, right.
Mike (30:30.461)
Yeah, absolutely. Right. What, which is what I did. Um, right. You know, and, and at one point, because where I pick up in Pennsylvania, um, it's a pet food place and the loads are really heavy coming out of there. And, uh, when you cross the border from Pennsylvania to Ohio on the interstate, there's a way station there.
Bill (30:34.636)
Right.
Mike (30:56.637)
So I always take back roads to get back. So I get to avoid the way station. Um, and if I would have been on a back road when this happened, it's, I mean, the roads I take, they're two lanes and there's no shoulder. So I would have been severely fucked. Yeah. Right. If it would have happened, you know, an hour and a half later. So, I mean, as I'm sitting there on an off ramp off the interstate.
Bill (31:12.91)
Oh wow, okay.
Mike (31:25.413)
Going well at least I'm not sitting in the middle of the road in the middle of nowhere Yeah, you know it was it was better. So, you know, I was grateful for that. Yippee
Bill (31:35.406)
Right. Isn't that kind of cool though? I mean that you want to talk about freedom. I've done the same thing in so many different circumstances. Nothing particular that I can think about the top of my head. But you know when shit goes, when you have that bad moment thinking that well it could be this. You know, or it could be something else. You know, and it always could. You know, in the old saying that no matter how bad you have at somebody as it were, so I get all that. It doesn't always take away from or help you know during our moment. But.
Mike (31:39.003)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (31:50.715)
Uh huh. Yes.
Mike (31:55.259)
Right?
Mike (31:59.997)
Mm -hmm.
Mm.
Bill (32:04.43)
Sometimes it helps a whole fucking lot realizing that yeah, it could be a fuck ton worse. That's for damn sure.
Mike (32:10.813)
Yep, absolutely. So, you know, it was, it was not pleasant, but it was better than it could be. And I put myself in a slightly better frame of mind, uh, by, by telling myself that. So, you know, yeah, apparently some of this shit works.
Bill (32:22.702)
Hahaha.
Bill (32:26.83)
Right. Yeah. And, you know, I can't believe it. I fucking Monday, Monday is April already. So, I mean, we're we're like two, three weeks away from, you our anniversary. So it's not fronting. It's just it's a fucking fact. And, yeah, I want to talk up talk about coming out by YouTube because I got I just booked another couple of places after this. So I've kind of booked through the end of.
Mike (32:36.431)
Yep.
Mm -hmm. All right.
Mike (32:48.797)
Nice.
Bill (32:50.222)
Like the end of, well, I'll get to it in a few minutes. So anything else on your day, or I mean, you got home and you got nothing done, I guess is the bottom line, right?
Mike (32:53.949)
Hehehe.
Mike (32:58.589)
Yeah, right. Oh yeah. Um, thankfully my, uh, my lovely girlfriend, Chris, uh, had the day off today because you know, she, now she works for the big city government and, uh, they, uh, yeah, they, they get days off that other people don't. So she had the day off and I sent her to Heinen's to get hot cross buns for us per mom's instructions years ago. Yeah. You need to go to Heinen's and get hot cross buns. Cause those are the good ones. So.
Bill (33:12.97)
Right.
Bill (33:18.958)
Oh, nice.
Bill (33:24.426)
Yeah, that was and you know what, I tell you that goes back to that has to go back to when we were kids. I'm positive it does that the hot, I mean, Hot Cross Buns, that's part of the thing, but I don't know when when Heidens would have came into the mix because I don't know that.
Mike (33:28.253)
And I'm still doing it.
Mike (33:39.261)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (33:48.381)
Yeah.
Bill (33:49.068)
I don't know, I mean, has Haydn's been around since the 70s? Do you know? I mean, how long they've been around?
Mike (33:52.477)
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure they have. Yeah.
Bill (33:56.334)
Yeah, I just don't know if, I don't know, maybe Gale bought them, you know, from Heinen's for years and then mom just carried it on. But yeah, it is. It's, yeah, the little things, that was the one, that was one of the most specific things was they had to come from, they had to come from Heinen's. And then, yeah.
Mike (34:00.125)
Right?
Mm -hmm.
Mike (34:12.989)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. After she moved to Indiana, it was now my job to go to high and I hate that fucking store. God, do I hate that fucking store? Because it is, it's a bit, it's high end and the people in there are just, uh, entitled, pretentious assholes. And it's funny. I talked to Chris, she's never been in there and she's like, what the fuck, man? She, yeah, she went with her daughter today. They.
Bill (34:33.646)
Hahaha.
Bill (34:39.182)
Oh really?
Mike (34:42.141)
They went up there to get them for me and I was like, yeah, fucked up vibe in there, huh? She's like, yeah, what the hell's wrong with that place? I was like, I don't know, but I have to go there once a year and now see, now I don't have to. It's going to be two years. It's beautiful. I don't have to go back till next Easter.
Bill (34:49.868)
Hehehehe
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Bill (34:58.19)
Nice. Yeah, and it, I don't know, I was actually gonna, I'm glad you explained it, because I was gonna ask you to explain Heinen's and yeah, it's, I know I've only been in there a couple of times over the years, but yeah, 100 % agree. And then in, and I know every time you talk about it, I bring up in the Milwaukee area and it's a local, locally owned grocery store, but it's called Sendix and it's the same thing, you know, higher end, more expensive.
Mike (35:07.229)
Okay.
Mike (35:11.485)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (35:23.005)
Right.
Bill (35:25.806)
There's nothing special about that store, nothing at all. You know, but, but I mean, when you walk into it, it's like the, the, you know, the front of the store and stuff where it's, I mean, everything in a grocery store is usually tiled in, in this, in that store, it's, it's carpeted all in the front where all the cash registers stuff are. I'm like, fucking really? Cause there's one in Germantown. And when they, uh, when they opened that one up, I don't know, seven, six, seven years ago, um, I went in there and I'm like, I'm not gonna fucking buy anything in here. Cause whatever it is, you're looking, I'm like,
Mike (35:26.237)
Yup. No, no.
Bill (35:54.542)
Really? I went back, I just looked at the meat counter, you know, because I'd get all my meat at like Pick and Save, which is a Kroger store now, which has good meat, but I'm looking at their steaks in there. They're two, three dollars more a pound. And I mean, I'm like, really? I know there's there's nothing about this store. And I'm making motions with my hands like in round circles. This store that impresses me. I mean, yeah, you're right. Fuck those people. But anyhow.
Mike (36:06.205)
Yeah.
Mike (36:10.589)
Hehehehe
Mike (36:15.173)
Uh huh. Right. Yep.
Bill (36:21.198)
Except for Aunt Gail, because Aunt Gail used to go in there, she's one of the nice ones. So. Right, right, right. All right, so on that note of Pretentious and Entitled, why don't we talk about some pretentious and entitled stuff that we have for, you know, on our website promo.
Mike (36:25.405)
Right. Yeah, exactly. Of course there's a few of them, but you know, they're still pretentious and entitled. Yeah.
Mike (36:45.661)
Well, why don't we do that? Let's take a break and we will be back with more judgmental douchebaggery right after these words from our sponsor.
Bill (37:05.514)
All right everyone, welcome back. And yeah, judgmental bastards I think would be a good description for you and I, right?
Mike (37:14.525)
Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know, and I think, uh, I just think that we just found the episode title, judgmental douchebaggery.
Bill (37:20.142)
Judge All right, so I yeah that makes your life a little bit easier You don't have to sit there and try to try to think about at the end You just got to find a picture to go along with that that I know I was gonna say that I Should hashtag hide ins in this in this episode or on Instagram that we kind of funny Yeah, probably not probably not but I don't know it'd be kind of fun but um, I
Mike (37:27.261)
I gotta find a picture to go with that. I bet you I will. I'll just find a picture of a Hyden's customer.
Mike (37:43.259)
No
Bill (37:50.286)
So anyhow, just real quick here, I mean obviously, yes, our anniversaries are coming up and I'm gonna be out in Cleveland. I think I'm coming out, am I coming out? You already invited me, you fuck. So yeah, what am I doing here? So this, God, I ended up getting a bunch of, well not a bunch, I got a couple other things booked already. So yeah, this week I'm back in Valpo from the 6th through the 20th, I'm in.
Mike (37:58.237)
Where are you staying?
Mike (38:03.229)
I know.
Bill (38:20.238)
the Ozarks and then yes, Saturday the 20th is when I'm driving out by you. And then I'm gonna stay that week and then we get to get ahold of Michael because obviously that next Saturday we should hit the casino and the buffet and hopefully, let's see if we have enough sense not to stop ourselves to the points where we wanna die.
Mike (38:34.269)
Hmm.
Mike (38:38.773)
Yeah, it's a whole bunch of breath.
Bill (38:42.99)
Right, but then but then yeah, I just booked a I wanted to go I think I told you I was looking at place down in Texas down towards the Gulf So yeah, I booked I booked that for me fourth through the 25th and then the the week of the 27th through the Whatever it is a fourth. I just I'm going halfway so I don't have to drive 20 hours and just this place I think I mentioned on the outskirts of Tennessee. So I got I got that book through the end of a and then
Mike (38:51.869)
Eh. Uh -huh.
Bill (39:11.566)
I got one more place on my book on the way back and then I'm looking at Wisconsin and Founders Days coming up after that. So little by little, but yeah, I mean, like I said, it's still a financial puzzle. I mean, I finished off my month and I'm gonna get a decent commission check my first month out. So, you know, I don't get it until, you know, second pay period in April, but yeah, right off the bat, you know, I did really well and things are clicking. But...
Mike (39:11.709)
Nice.
Mike (39:18.781)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (39:29.917)
Nice.
Bill (39:40.078)
But yeah, so for anyone who hasn't, you know, like been around us or if you just started listening, we've gotten together. Well, I was out in Cleveland for the first, you know, three years that I was sober or we were sober and then went back to Wisconsin. And one of the things that I hate to say the word vowed, but I guess maybe we agreed or made a deal that we were always going to get together, you know, for our anniversaries, regardless of where we were, you know, and we have, except for two years, you know, obviously pandemic years.
Mike (39:51.003)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (40:03.709)
Right. Mm -hmm.
Right.
Bill (40:08.974)
Um, you know, but that was just, um, you know, literally outside of it was a, I think, wasn't that a world worldwide pandemic thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In our anniversaries being in April, that was at the height of it. There was no way that, you know, and that was our 10 year too. You remember that we were going to try to get all of our buddies together that, uh, that were still sober and, you know, do that whole thing. But I don't know, maybe we'll have to, if we can stay sober until 20, we'll have to do it at that maybe 15.
Mike (40:17.277)
I believe so. Yeah. Just about everything shut down. Yeah.
Mike (40:29.885)
Yeah. Yeah.
Bill (40:39.02)
Maybe we'll do 15 if, if, if, yeah, if we, if we all live, I know, I know. But, um, but yeah, so we always get together on our anniversaries and, um, this year, this year it falls kind of, it's, I mean, we're literally almost a week and a half after mine. And then, you know, obviously a full, well, a five, five days after, after yours, but, um, we always do with the, the first weekend after both of us hit. So mine's the 18th, his is the 22nd.
Mike (40:39.709)
Meh. Right. Right. Yes. We gotta make it to 14 first.
Bill (41:07.79)
And then a lot of times we don't do a lot, you know, a couple of years ago, handful of years ago, whenever it was, is when we went to the casino with Michael. So yeah, that's, we're going to do that again. And it's just, it's the, there's two things that we plan to sober events, you know, outside of the retreat that we did, but you know, founders day we do every year, same deal applied to that for the most part, you know, except for pandemic years and then our anniversary. So it's to me and I know to you too, it's just, it's a lot of fucking fun. I mean, it's, I don't know, just a matter of.
Mike (41:24.989)
All right.
Bill (41:36.718)
It is something that we celebrate, you we believe in, you know, we believe time matters and we were huge fans of anniversaries, especially our own. But I mean, but I mean, still, I mean, I do, I love watching people get, you know, get anniversaries. I just, I really fucking do. I mean, it's, it's just nice, you know.
Mike (41:46.205)
Of course!
Mike (41:56.509)
Yeah, me too.
Bill (41:59.246)
Yeah, but um, yeah, I know Kathy already got, I think she already got her coin. She showed me yours. So I think that's, that's probably, I'm sure she'll give it to you in an envelope, you know, while you're there, because you can't, you can't like front or anything. And oh, shit, I'm gonna be gone for, I'm gonna be in the Ozarks for my anniversary. So I'll have to make sure that she gives me mine before I leave too, so I can open up that morning like a like a Christmas gift.
Mike (42:08.189)
Uh huh.
Mike (42:17.949)
Mmm.
Mike (42:24.935)
Yep, absolutely. Yep. That's the way I do mine too, man. It stays in the package until that morning.
Bill (42:34.542)
Right. And you know what I thought about doing it? I mean, I've got, and I've talked about it before. I've got all my coins in a frame, but I mean, those frames I have sitting in a, basically it's in like a duffel bag in, in that room that I'm, that I'm staying in a Cathy's house. And I, I've looked at, I think I saved it as a, like a wishlist item on Amazon, but I want to get, I think I might get a book kind of like a, almost like a photo album for coins, you know, because I thought that might be something that I can.
I'm like a coffee table book, which I'm not going to have it sit out at a coffee table. But I really want my coins with me all the time. But being in frames, one of the frames got broken. And so I still got to replace that. And I don't know. I just thought it'd make more sense to put it in a book.
Mike (43:22.663)
Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, you know, it's getting to be a couple of them, man. Yeah. Need something to like, uh, put them all in that that makes sense.
Bill (43:32.014)
Right. Yeah.
Bill (43:37.038)
Right. Yeah. And, uh, and we are delaying a little bit, but I think it might be manageable. I don't think it's all the time, but, um, yeah, we, that there was probably a two or three second. Yeah, there was like a two or three second delay there, I think, but, um, I dunno, we'll push through and see, see what's what. So, um, one thing though, speaking of, speaking of sobriety and anniversaries, I haven't had a drinking dream in, um, shit. I can't even remember the last time, but I remember we were, we talking about it with somebody recently, but, um, this week,
Mike (43:41.309)
Yes we are.
Bill (44:05.518)
Monday, Tuesday, something like that. I had a dream, and I'll put it this way, and this is way I wrote it down, that I gave up my sobriety because in the dream, I didn't see myself drinking or anything like that, but for whatever reason, I have this vague memory in the dream that it had to do with pills, which is weird for me, but I was just sitting in a room talking to somebody, I had no idea who it was, and all I could think was, it was just knowing that,
I gave up, you know, obviously almost 14 years and it was literally in my dream. I knew how much time I gave up and then I woke up, you know, but it was that that was the weirdest one because usually for the most part of the drinking dreams, I've I've recognized what the physical act was or that I did drink or had a recollection that I that I drank something. But this was just knowing that I fucked up and I didn't know exactly what I did is that it was just weird, you know, since I hadn't had one in a while, but. Figured I'd share that.
Mike (45:03.261)
Right. Well, I, yeah, about a week ago, I had a goddamn cocaine dream and I didn't even, I don't even like cocaine. It was not my drug of choice, not by a long shot, but yeah, there it was. And you know, again, with all of my using and drinking dreams, it's, it's all pretty much about me trying to hide it. Yeah. It's, it's never any fun. And then I wake up and I go, eh, it's just a fucking dream. I'm still sober. Fuck you.
Bill (45:16.334)
Ha ha ha.
Heheheheh
Bill (45:35.438)
Right? Right? Well, and that's the thing now too, that sometimes I when like these days when when I wake up, even if I get it, what I what I consider to be a long enough period of sleep, I still I wake up and I'm always I'm always fucking tired. You know, it just doesn't matter anymore. I'm always tired. And it takes me a minute to just have my brain click in to figure out, oh, yeah, that was just a fucking dream. And then like you said, then it's like, yeah, fuck you, man. It was just a fucking dream, you know. But.
Mike (46:02.269)
Yep. Exactly.
Bill (46:03.47)
It was just, like I said, it was weird because, you know, just, I didn't know, still, I just, I couldn't pinpoint what happened just knowing I gave up the time, which was, I don't know, again, kind of fucked up, but you know, it is what it is. It was a dream, like you say, right?
Mike (46:19.293)
Exactly. Yeah. You know, just your subconscious reminding you of what, what's possible, which is kind of okay. Cause I need to be reminded of what's possible occasionally.
Bill (46:26.702)
Right, yeah.
Well, and I wonder if it, I don't remember the last time, like I said, the last time I had one, but I wonder if it happens, you know, getting closer to an anniversary. You know, I wonder if that, that has anything to do with it, but who knows? You know what? It happened and it's, it's all good. I didn't give up my time, so I'm good. Right?
Mike (46:51.965)
Absolutely. Right. Yeah. I mean, it may have something to do with coming up on, you know, subconsciously, you know, coming up on the anniversary. I mean, I, I get them. Shit. I was just talking to somebody in a meeting the other day about it. Yeah. Uh, you know, I get them three, four times a year, you know, and it's like pretty, pretty on schedule and it's, it's fine. I know it's, uh, we've talked about it before, man, you know, I spent my entire life obsessed with.
Substances. Why would that go away after just 14 years?
Bill (47:26.862)
Right. Well, yeah, and there's a, I mean, being, you know, going, going through and I certainly rather have a, have a dream, you know, than, than, than forget why I do this shit. So I think if it even if it's once or twice a year, I think I could deal with that versus the, the alternative, right?
Mike (47:48.647)
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I mean, we all have a dream, especially Martin Luther King.
Bill (47:52.066)
Hehehe
Bill (47:56.942)
Yeah, and we have a we have a dream delay so hopefully everyone can everyone obviously you hear this I mean, it's two three seconds, whatever it is, but I don't unless it gets really fucking bad where you know, it's like super annoying I don't see the reason to try to restart this thing you know if we delay for a couple seconds it fucking is what it is because Yeah, I don't know. He comes it comes comes it goes I guess they release that's coming and going from what I can tell right because you could hear a to right Mike
Mike (48:28.061)
Oh yeah. And, and it's like, it's, it's actually getting a bit worse. Cause you're like really cutting out quite a bit.
Bill (48:38.958)
Yeah, and it delayed quite a bit too. So I don't know. I mean, again, once again, you know, I'm on a whole new setup here. God, I just don't know. I mean, do you think it's bad? I mean, do you think it's bad enough for us to have to try to restart this or you just want to push forward?
Mike (48:48.829)
Right.
Mike (48:57.629)
I mean, it's getting to be, uh, it's getting to be about five, six, seven seconds, man. It's getting annoying.
Bill (49:06.19)
Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess once again, you guys won't know this is happening, but we're going to take a quick break and we'll be back instantaneously as far as you can tell. So, all right.
Mike (49:15.421)
Hehehehehe
Mike (49:22.269)
So there.
Bill (00:02.158)
And just like that, it's magic. We're back. The beauty of fucking internet shit. I don't know what the hell, but anyhow, you know what? We're not gonna spend even a second on that. So on to the next topic. I have one. So you know what? This is kind of fitting. When did you start accepting your mistakes as learning experiences rather?
Mike (00:04.257)
Hehehehehe
Mike (00:10.177)
Yep, that or neither.
Mike (00:17.793)
Onto the next topic. What is the next topic, Bill?
Mike (00:30.761)
Hehehehehe
Bill (00:31.598)
rather than something bad. Not that this, not that, not meaning that this is a mistake on either one of our parts, but it's just something I wrote down and I don't remember why. But so once again, when did you start accepting your mistakes as learning experience rather than something bad?
Mike (00:49.633)
I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm
Bill (00:52.268)
Yesterday.
Yeah.
Mike (01:02.017)
six months to a year in there started, you know, it certainly didn't happen right away, but, um, you know, it, relatively speaking fairly quickly, I would say it started to, uh, work that muscle about six months in something like that. Um, you know, yeah, again, um, it's it for me, it all comes back to like ego, you know, that, that I'm so fucking important that, you know,
My mistakes are so earth shattering, nobody gives a fuck, you know? And that's just it. I could make a mistake and go, well, that was dumb. I probably shouldn't do that again. And then look around me and go, wow, nobody even fucking noticed.
Bill (01:47.15)
Like you said, we're not very important. We made the mistake or did messed up or did whatever and yet not only nobody noticed, somebody would give a fuck anyhow, right? Right. Yeah, and again, I never know when or why I write these things down, but learning experiences, I mean, I was...
Mike (01:59.361)
Right. Yeah, exactly. You know, maybe point and laugh once in a while.
Bill (02:15.886)
I don't know, just I think we're told that all our lives, you know, learn from your mistakes and those sort of things. And, you know, a mistake is a learning experience, whereas what do they say, mistakes if you do the same thing twice or make the same mistake twice, then it's just, you know, it's on purpose or it's, you know, you haven't made that correction or that conscious effort to try to be better. Yeah, exactly. But I would say, you know, that's probably a good timeframe because I really didn't think about it, but.
Mike (02:20.449)
Right.
Mike (02:35.329)
Eh, that's bad behavior.
Bill (02:45.678)
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I still had a lot of the, you know, why the fuck me type of thing if things didn't go right, you know, for that first, at least for the first three to six months and maybe, maybe even that first year, you know, when, because I mean, you're still as a, and I say you in the collective, we and us, I mean, you're still trying to get your legs under you for that first year, at least that first two or three years, I mean, or maybe the 13th or up to the 14th year.
Mike (02:50.945)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (02:55.489)
Right.
Mike (03:01.857)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (03:06.913)
Yeah.
Mike (03:10.977)
Yeah. Yes. Speaking of that 15th year, maybe, maybe something will happen. We'll see.
Bill (03:16.333)
Yeah, right. Yeah, getting into, yeah, maybe, maybe getting into our 15th year, you know, we'll have all our shit in line and all that sort of stuff, right?
Mike (03:25.025)
Right, we can hope but you know, yeah, hope in one hand and shit in the other.
Bill (03:29.248)
Right, right.
Yeah, exactly. But no, it's just that it was an interesting thought because it's even even to this day. I mean, if I if I make a mistake, you know, I there's still that point of me that's like motherfucker, you know, when when you did do something, but it could be something simple. It could be something. Thankfully, I don't remember any like huge big mistakes that I've made in recent years, you know, like big mistakes, you know, but even even smallish ones, you're looking like fuck. And usually I think I look back and I try to figure out.
Mike (03:55.777)
Right. Mm -hmm.
Bill (04:03.16)
why did I make that mistake? What could I have done differently up to that point? Which that's that learning experience, figuring that, okay, I gotta take my time. I didn't do this. I didn't read the directions. And my cake turned out like shit or whatever it was. But yeah, I mean, it's.
Mike (04:16.289)
Right.
Mike (04:22.081)
Right. Yeah, it's basically, yeah, which principles weren't I practicing to get to me to the point where I was fucking something up. Right. Yep.
Bill (04:31.758)
Right. Yeah, but it is it goes back to, you know, kind of what the what the reading was, you know, the the acceptance part and trying to push things. And like when I was when I was booking or getting all these like these most recent trips that I was that I was trying to book, I was originally like I've been eyeballing the place in in Texas for I don't know, probably a month, if not longer than that. And like I said, I mean, I've found a way to be able to kind of, you know, do a side finance thing on this where I could pay this stuff off and, you know, not have to throw the money up front.
Um, you know, but I was, I was really trying, I, I almost was trying to push it, you know, like a month ago, cause I, you know, I paid this one thing off figure and I'd had the room to do this and that. And I didn't. So I, but I did, I put myself into a position where, I mean, my money was really fucking tight for like two weeks. And I'm like, fuck me. Cause I, but I, it wasn't a bad thing that I did. And I just did it at the wrong time, you know, and I, I wasn't patient. And with, with this one.
Mike (05:19.137)
Great.
Mike (05:23.809)
Mm -hmm. Mm.
Bill (05:27.918)
I knew I'd be able to book the Texas trip is the bigger, you know, obviously the more expensive one, the week trip that I want, one I knew I was going to have to pay for. And that's fine. I budgeted for that. But then the other one coming back is again, you know, I don't want to drive 20 hours someplace. I'm trying to look at like Branson, Missouri area. And that's one that I could do a finance thing, but now I think I've got too much financed on there. So it won't fit, you know.
And first thing I'm like, Oh, can I just go ahead? I get to pay for this. I'm like, Nope. You did the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, fuck it. I've got literally. I don't need to book that place. I don't need a place to stay until the end of May, you know, so I got time. So I'm like, fuck it. Wait till my next pay period or the pay period after that. If it's not there, I'll find something else. It's not the only, it's not the only fucking Airbnb out there. It'd be nice. You know, it's, it's affordable and it's in a decent location and whatever, but, but same deal.
Mike (06:00.353)
Right?
Mike (06:22.305)
Huh? Right. And you never know, you might find something better. So you did learn from your mistake. You stopped yourself and you went, I can't do this again.
Bill (06:23.118)
You know, it's a.
Correct. Yeah. Yep. I did.
Yeah, and because literally, I mean, I have the money where I could have done it, but it would have it would have strapped me again for two weeks. And I'm like, I don't two things. I don't need to do that. And plus, I'm you know, I mean, in a week, I'm driving down to the Ozarks. I mean, it'd be nice to have a little bit of literally. I mean, I can always have, you know, credit cards and things like that, but not always. But you know what I mean? Rather have like had so just keep this money over here. It's good. I don't need I don't need to blow it all right now. You know.
Mike (06:50.145)
Yeah. Right.
Mike (06:58.241)
Uh -huh.
Bill (07:00.654)
Even though my mindset right now, I mean, technically once I get all this stuff rolling is that I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna do things with it and all that stuff. And I have that mindset. I'm not gonna spend all the money in my life every week, you know, but you know, so yeah, I think I learned from my mistake, I think. I think. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that a lot. So, and that goes on to the next one. And I have an example about this one, but I want your opinion on it first. So,
Mike (07:11.359)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (07:16.417)
Eh, sounds like it. Yeah, I'll go aside that bullshit.
Hehehehehe
Bill (07:29.806)
We always talk about trusting the process, which you and I know what it means, but maybe other folks out there don't. But I do have an example, a personal example in my life, to kind of add to the conversation. But, so to begin with, what does trust the process mean to us?
Mike (07:32.865)
out.
Mike (07:50.561)
Uh, well, this, this set of rules that, uh, that people set up, um, work and even when I can't see that they will work, they will work anyway. Um, yeah, trust the process. I mean, it's funny. I use it, um, for my job, I drive into a rail yard and, um, through the app, it gives me the general location of the trailer I'm looking for.
Bill (07:54.382)
Hahaha!
Mike (08:20.765)
And, um, 90, 95 % of the time it's, it's basically where it should be. Um, occasionally once in a while it's not, um, which is fine. But, um, but yeah, I will, I'll be like driving in and, you know, going past a bunch of other spots. Cause where I'm supposed to go is like towards the back and I'll be like looking around and looking at all the trailers and looking to see where the one is that I'm at. And I will stop myself and go.
And stop looking around and stop trying to control everything and drive around to the back where it's supposed to be. And, um, yeah, like I said, you know, more than nine times out of 10, it's where it's supposed to be. And I trust the process of the process works.
Bill (08:49.9)
Hehehehehe
Bill (09:06.558)
Right. Well, it just, the reason I was laughing to begin with, just what you started off, you're like, where is this set of rules? Which it is, it's just, it's, I don't know why that, what I kind of caught me in is funny, but it is, it's these rules, some of them are written, some of them are unwritten, you know, for us, but we've got a set of, you know, principles and rules and just.
Mike (09:30.177)
Right. There's this parameters set up by people that know more than us and we need to trust it.
Bill (09:36.75)
Right. Yeah. And trusting the process also, the only thing I'll add to it is that, you know, like, like you said before, that usually again, 90, probably 95 % of the time things will work out a lot of times, not only as we expected, but sometimes better than we expected if we're patient, going back to acceptance and of course, trusting the process. So, um, and yeah, it's kind of funny that you had a work situation. That's where my mind comes in. Um, and I say it almost every single day because.
Mike (09:47.969)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (09:52.105)
Yep.
Bill (10:06.72)
Just as a, I don't know, a quick step back with the debt collection business. Most collection agencies use an automated dialer. Call centers use it. Any company or business that has to make a volume of phone calls, most efficient way is to use an auto dialer. You know, it's been around for years. So in the type of collections that I've been in in the past, it's been mainly consumer based, a lot of medical business. So average balances.
Mike (10:23.585)
Right.
Bill (10:35.95)
probably between 250 to 300, there's larger balances in there, but the majority of them that $200, $300 range. And all these balances, unless you get to bigger agencies with bigger balances, they should be on a dial because that's the only way as a collector that you're gonna make any money is through the volume. That's the way it is. So with this company that I'm with, it's kind of the other way around. However,
Our clients which are insurance companies because we're collecting on business insurance policies So we're collecting from businesses for their you know unpaid insurance policies premiums blah blah blah and The things that go on the dialer are balances from a thousand dollars in under which is fine on the consumer side of things that covers 75 % of your business, you know where in this case, it's it's a small percentage, you know, but the business still has to be worked so for
usually anywhere between five to six hours a day, we're on a dialer system. We could still work manual business in the morning, we could still work other stuff, but we're working these smaller account balances on the dialer. Now outside of the dialer, and even though the lower level, level one right now, the balances of my accounts are anywhere between 1 ,000 to $2 ,500. So I can make more money.
Mike (11:42.217)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (11:58.254)
Theoretically, if I collect two, three of those rather than spending X number of hours on the dialer and just spinning through that stuff. But you can get inbound calls, happens every once in a while. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. But the other thing is that I've always loved the dialer system. Anytime I've worked on one, I don't like this because I feel it's fumbly based on the type of business we have, plus I think it takes away from my ability.
to collect the bigger balances and earn the kind of money I want to. Okay, but I do trust the company. I 100 % trust our manager. So I literally on a daily basis, I'm like, I hate this fucking dialer, I fucking hate it. I hate spending time on here, I'm doing this, I wanna call on this, I wanna do this, I wanna do that. But I'm like, I step back and I'm like, trust the process, trust the process. Because the other thing that I need to do is I think, I could be wrong, but I think,
Mike (12:49.217)
Right.
Bill (12:56.718)
Once I go from this level one to level two, which he's talking about moving me up, I don't think I have to work on the dialer. If I do, it's not going to be as much. So I need to play by those. That's maybe that's why I was laughing. Play by those sets of rules. And you know what? All said and done. I had a goal that I almost, I didn't almost, yeah, almost doubled. My goal this month was six grand that I ended up with almost 11 ,000. And so did the other guy.
Mike (13:08.96)
rules. Yep.
Mike (13:23.649)
Nice.
Bill (13:24.878)
The other guy that I started with, he and I are like neck and neck. He's a few hundred bucks ahead of me. And this is in fee total dollars collected. It's like 60 some thousand dollars that I collected. Same thing with the other guy. And, um, you know, I, I ended up with a commission check. That's pretty good to be pretty darn close to a two week paycheck for me. Okay. And that's my, that's my first month, first month out, um, working these smaller balances, working this dialer shit and trusting the process. Okay. So.
Mike (13:26.623)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mike (13:34.721)
Yeah, yeah, right.
Mike (13:44.129)
Right, nice.
Mike (13:53.089)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (13:54.926)
It's a struggle. I'm telling you, it's a fucking struggle because you know what I think to myself every once in a while, I'm like, well, if I were the manager and I want to say I would make this suggestion that, but then I'm like, no, because I've got to look at, and I hate the term sometimes the bigger picture. And I know what our manager is looking at, what the company has to look at. These companies we deal with, they're giving us millions of dollars worth of business, but they expect all of it to be worked. You know, all of it.
Mike (14:02.783)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (14:11.713)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (14:23.969)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Right.
Bill (14:25.23)
Even the small shit, you know? So. Yeah. But, yeah. Go ahead.
Mike (14:33.281)
Nah, yeah, right. It's, you know, um, you know, the shit needs for me, you know, the shit needs to be moved from here to there. And if from here to there is a couple of miles or a couple of hundred miles, I still need to move the shit from here to there. Cause that's what they need to be done. Yeah, exactly. I'm a, I'm a piece of the, the bigger puzzle and I need to do make sure my piece fits and it is complete and works. And yes, they're counting on that piece of puzzle to be there to make the whole thing work.
So right, exactly.
Bill (15:03.694)
Right. Well, well, and for you too, I mean, you know, I mean, you're paid, you're paid by what, what, and how long you drive, right? Not what you haul, what, how many miles driving on stuff, right? That's how your, your pay is kind of broken down.
Mike (15:17.471)
Yeah, I mean, I'm paid per mile and I'm also paid per load. So yeah, I mean, if I do, you know, five loads a day and I drive 300 miles, I do pretty damn good, you know? Um, sometimes I'll do 200 miles and six loads, you know, but it balances out. So yeah, right. It's, you again, getting paid about the same, no matter what, just tell me what to do and I'll go do it.
Bill (15:42.638)
Right and that's the other thing too is because I'm trying to look at I am looking at the bigger picture also from you know from a selfish standpoint is that you know in He's he's happy with what I'm doing. He's happy with what the other guy is doing, you know that started with me I don't know that he's if he's offered the other guy the you know The idea of being moved up to the next level, but he's already offered it to me and mentioned it to me
Mike (16:04.449)
Alright.
Bill (16:06.902)
And I just need to, that's why I don't want to take any days off. I don't want to fuck around. I don't want to fuck off or anything like that. And like I said, I still made a decent amount of money in commission. So, I mean, I've got nothing to complain about, but it is, it's, I have to tell myself every damn day, trust the process. You know, it's hard.
Mike (16:11.489)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (16:25.121)
Exactly. Right. It is. Yeah. Because, you know, we're fucking drunks and junkies and we got it all figured out.
Bill (16:34.99)
And you know, that's a funny thing. And I don't necessarily think I have it all figured out, but I just want it different sometimes, you know? And that's the problem. You know, I'm like, well, if, and that's why I say I do, I get these things in my head. Well, if I were, but I'm like, when I interview, not only here, but other places, and I've been good at this since I've been sober, imagine that. But I don't go into a place, even though I've got...
Mike (16:57.473)
Ha!
Bill (17:01.582)
I've got years of fucking experience in the collection industry. I mean, a lot, but not, not doing this, you know, not doing this type of business. I mean, I understand the process and everything like that, but not what this is, you know, and this is so much more opportunity than, than I could have ever had any other place as certainly as a collector, you know, without the stress and hassle, you know, managing people. So, um, I don't know. Like I said, it's, it's difficult, but, um,
Mike (17:03.937)
Mm -hmm. All right.
Bill (17:27.982)
Yeah, I don't know everything. I just in my head, I'm like, God, I wish it if it were just this way. You know, and I'm fucking competitive too, because the guy that started with me, he's a good dude. I like him, you know? And I'm like, this motherfucker jumped ahead of me and I'll be ahead of him. And then he jumps ahead of me. But I mean, we're so close. And, you know, but I'm like, I want good things to happen for him, but I want to win, you know, because I'm fucking competitive.
Mike (17:31.681)
Hehehehehe
Mike (17:39.297)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (17:42.977)
Yeah.
Mike (17:53.345)
That's right.
Bill (17:56.846)
Yeah, but I don't let it come out. I'm not a dick. I'm not openly a dick. Let's put it that way.
Mike (18:02.337)
Right. Which is all that matters.
Bill (18:06.478)
Yeah, exactly. Sometimes, you know, it doesn't matter what's between these ears of ours. It's what comes out of our fucking pie hole, right?
Mike (18:12.993)
That's right.
Bill (18:15.118)
So another one, and I know we talked about the promises a couple episodes ago, but the one that kind of jumped out at me, and I don't remember when I wrote this down, if it was while we were talking about it or afterwards, but so we will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. Once again, I'm thinking about these little sayings that we talk about all the time. And I don't know, again, if there's somebody out there that either maybe it's not 12 -step based, is new, or they hear these things and are like,
Mike (18:19.489)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (18:34.337)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (18:43.822)
People don't ask, some people just don't ask questions, you know, because they figure it's a silly question. So, let's go with that same thing. What does that mean to you? We will not regret the past or wish to shut the door on it. So, what are your thoughts on that? What does it mean in general and what does it mean to you?
Mike (18:47.777)
Mm -hmm. Mm.
Mike (19:02.401)
Right. Um, I, well, again, um, we, we've talked about this before too, but you know, all those shitty things that we did and all the mistakes that we've made and in the rotten people that we were, um, come to have value because we could use these things to help somebody else, to show them that, um, you know, we've been there, that, uh, we were all pretty much the same. We've all made the same mistakes and it's okay. Cause we've moved on from them. Um,
So yeah, I don't regret the past. I don't, you know, I'm not proud of the things I did, but I don't regret them because I take them and I turn them around and I make them worthwhile to help someone else. So they do have worth, you know, and I don't want to shut the door on the past because I've got to remember those things and I've got to remember what I'm capable of. Um, and so that I don't do that shit again. Um, right.
So yeah, you know, again, it comes, I mean, for me, it comes, that promise comes from taking the bad things that we did and making them worthwhile by using them to help the next person. That's, that's what that means to me. So yeah, I, you know, yes, I was an awful person. Yes. If I really think about it, I was, you know, I should be ashamed and regret and, and, and, and want to slam the door on that and never think about it again. Um,
Bill (20:26.798)
Heheheheh
Mike (20:28.385)
But if I do that, then I can't help the next guy who's struggling with the exact same things that I was doing. And, um, I can't use that stuff to help the next person. So, um, and, and, and again, I've got to remember what I'm fucking capable of so that I don't do it anymore.
Bill (20:47.278)
Right. And that's usually the, I would say the key thing that I always think about is, you know, that I need to remember, I want to, and I need to remember what I'm capable of. And you said that, I don't know, since you and I have known each other probably hundreds of times. And I think it's a great way to put it because it's not just what we've done, it's what we're capable of doing, which means present tense, you know? And I mean, those people,
Mike (21:03.425)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (21:10.433)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Bill (21:15.278)
you know, those people that you and I were, they're still there. Those two motherfuckers are still all, those two guys are hanging out with all you guys out there too. It's just that, you know, we're in a new uniform these days, you know? And we do some work and some readings and we do some steps and to all this, do this work every day, quote unquote, now it is work every day, you know, to make sure that those, you know, those guys don't come back out. But, and it does, it just, it,
Mike (21:19.199)
Oh yeah.
Mike (21:26.081)
Hmm?
Mike (21:29.825)
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike (21:38.177)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (21:44.504)
Every once in a while I've heard, it's been in meetings, it's been in podcasts, it's been all over the place. I'll hear people say that, I don't want to remember that person I was. That person I was wasn't anything I want to think about these days. It almost, it makes me nervous. Hey, to each his own, if you're cool with that and you're fine with that, but I don't understand it because to your exact point, we...
Mike (22:01.281)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Bill (22:13.39)
Number one is that we can take these things, we can tell these stories to people, our stories and our tales of woe, to two things, woe, to qualify sometimes and let people know that, hey, we've been there, but also to relate to people, that that's important. But on top of that too is to say that, you know what, kind of like the, I'm not the greatest thing since sliced bread and neither are you, but.
Mike (22:21.481)
Whoa.
Mike (22:29.473)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (22:40.883)
Nope.
Bill (22:40.908)
You know, hey, look at us now, but these are the stories. We were there too. We did these things, but here's this path that we followed and here's where we are now. We're not great. We're not wonderful. You know, we're not less than, we're not, you know, better than, but we're sure as fuck better than, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike (22:56.961)
Hmm. We were. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, and, and look at me. I'm shiny and I'm happy now. That's it is. Yes, it is.
Bill (23:06.854)
Shiny happy people. Isn't that a song? Shiny happy people? Holding hands. So is that, who sings that? No, oh, I was gonna say, God damn, why can't I think of who sings it? Okay, so what do you think of REM since we brought up a band? That's kind of what I figured. The only time that I think.
Mike (23:14.657)
I do. Go ahead. Are you?
Mike (23:24.961)
I don't.
I don't dwell on that past.
Bill (23:34.894)
I think the only time that we, that you and I connected on an REM song was the one time when you were going over to the John and Gail's, you couldn't remember the road to Turidon. And I said, what's the frequency? And you're like, oh, that's right, Kenneth. Yeah. So I did use an REM lyric to direct you to their house at one time. I remember that, but. So, but yeah, I just, I don't know. I thought it was important to bring that up. Cause like I said, we, we talk about all these things and we say these things and.
Mike (23:40.543)
Mmm.
Hehehe.
Yeah. Exactly.
Mike (23:54.377)
Hehehehehe
Mike (24:00.991)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (24:04.942)
I know that we talk about all of these different items in a general sense. I just don't know that we sometimes focus on them. So I figure it never hurts to kind of, as they say,
Mike (24:12.641)
Right? You know, and I just, I just thought about, I mean, that is one of the promises that we get that we won't regret and we won't want to close the door on it. And, um, I don't know if somebody is, they want to shut out their past and they, they, they do truly regret, um, the things that they did. Um, there.
They're missing something because that promise isn't coming true for them that they missed something along the way. You know, again, I'm not proud of, I never want to be that person again, but I don't, I don't regret being what I was before because I use it to help the next guy. So, um, you know, maybe you're not helping the next guy. Maybe you haven't resolved those things. Maybe you haven't worked that night step enough.
to make amends and make things better to those people that you hurt before, you know, that you want to shut all that off and you want to, you still regret those things. You're not, you're missing something. So I'm sorry for you.
Bill (25:20.148)
Right. Well, and to put it in different terms that are even in non AA terms, usually, if that causes people pain to look back on that people haven't healed. That's it. That's a big buzzword these days, you know, healing from past trauma. And we don't look at it as necessarily as, you know, and identify with the word trauma. But, you know, if you want to put it in different words, that's what we're talking about. Deal with your shit, you know, deal with it, get over it, accept it, and then use it to, you know, to
Mike (25:32.641)
Mm -hmm, right.
Mike (25:44.289)
Yeah. Right.
Bill (25:49.134)
to your advantage to the point of helping somebody else with it. Use all that, same thing. Whatever job you're in, the day you started your job, you had no fucking idea what you were doing. Now you know what you're doing, hopefully. And maybe you're doing it, if nothing else, competently, and you probably showed somebody at some point along the way a thing or two. It's the same thing. It's the same thing that you're doing in life on a daily basis. You're just doing it with your
Mike (26:01.633)
Right?
Uh -huh.
Mike (26:11.137)
Hmm. Right. Yep.
Bill (26:18.606)
drunk ass shit, or your drug induced shit that you did years ago, you can use it now to help the new guy or help the next guy, right?
Mike (26:22.401)
Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, and I hate to break it to you, but it's circular. You know, if you, if you're still hurting, but you're still using it to help someone else with it, with that pain that you had, that's how that pain heals. That's how you get to that point. You know, you, you, you're using it for a good thing. And so that bad thing becomes better. Does that make sense?
Bill (26:47.854)
Right. I think it does. It makes perfect sense. It makes absolute 100 % perfect sense. So yeah, so you know, I don't know. If it is something that you're struggling with, you know, you as the general listener out there, just take a closer look at it because it should not be a bad thing regardless of what type of recovery program you follow. Whether it's an organized, you know, 12 -step or not, those things not only can, but they do have worth.
Mike (27:10.433)
Mm.
Bill (27:17.23)
And I know Mike said it plenty of times with having worth and I agree with that.
Mike (27:17.441)
Yes.
Absolutely. And you know what? Um, this reminded me of something I've talked about it, talked about it with you before, and I've mentioned it a few times on here. There's a podcast that I listened to that is an outgrowth from a radio show that I used to listen to. So I've been listening to a couple of these guys for like close to 30 years. Um, and one of the principles on this show, um, this is definitely not a recovery show. This is definitely not, it's, it's.
humor based and it's, you know, an outgrowth of a wacky morning zoo from a long time ago, shock jocks, whatever. Um, and they've certainly evolved it, you know, the, the main guy is like 64 years old now. And, um, you know, it's a very different thing, but anyway, the principal on the show two years ago, um, had his liver was fucking shutting down cause he drank all the time.
Bill (27:55.342)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Mike (28:14.913)
Um, he refers to himself as an alcoholic, but kind of jokingly, um, anyway, he, um, had his two year sober anniversary, um, like last week, week before or something like that. Right. Very cool. Um, but he is, um, not in the program, you know, he, uh, whatever. Um, I, I mentioned that he refers to himself kind of jokingly as an alcoholic and he refers to himself as in recovery jokingly.
Bill (28:26.958)
Nice.
Mike (28:44.853)
Um, but he's not working a program the way we work programs, not 12 step guy. Um, but he, um, it's funny, we talk about the different paths, yet the similarities, you know, working towards the same thing in the same way. And, um, when he had his two year thing, they gave him like the opening of the show to talk about it. And, um, it's funny, man, you know, uh,
And so many times we'll hear people talk about recovery and the solution and how to do this stuff and whatever. And, you know, the big book tells us one of my absolute favorite lines, the root of our troubles is selfishness and self centeredness. That is the root of our problem. And, um, this guy was talking for, you know, whatever, 15, 20 minutes talking about his journey over the past couple of years.
And he said selfish so many times. I mean, he must have said it probably two dozen times over the course of this. And I'm just sitting there going, fuck, man, he's not really one of us. He really doesn't work the way we work it. But he fucking got it, man. He's you know, he's talking about the way he was. And he just kept going back to I was selfish. I was selfish. That's why I did this. I was selfish. That's why I did that.
Bill (29:55.246)
Hehehe
Mike (30:11.297)
was selfish and I'm just going fuck man yes he's not working a program but goddamn did he get it so I thought that was just really cool and I wanted to share that.
Bill (30:18.446)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, I mean, that is in who do we have a Nico when we had Nico on, you know, not a 12 step guy. We've had a couple other people on, you know, that were not necessarily 12 step people or just dipped, you know, like one little toe in it years ago. But same thing, you know, those people get it. Christine was probably a great example of that. I mean, she's got the same, you know, a little bit under she's about 11 months, maybe nine months behind us, I think, in time.
Mike (30:26.725)
Exactly.
Mike (30:35.881)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (30:48.159)
Uh -huh.
Bill (30:49.112)
and hit the AA thing to begin with her dad, I think if I remember is an AA, you know, so she gets a program, she understands it all, but it's done a whole different type of recovery, you know, but she lives along the same principles, even though she doesn't live along the same principles, you know? And inadvertently, Nico did the same thing. He's got everything we, he's doing everything we're doing, just he calls it something else, you know, which is fucking amazing, you know?
Mike (30:57.825)
Right.
Mike (31:04.833)
Right.
Mike (31:08.639)
Right.
Mike (31:12.513)
Right. Exactly. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So, you know, the solution is the same, even if you use different terms and a different process, but it is still a process. And as long as you trusted it and work it, you get the same fucking results. And it's pretty damn cool.
Bill (31:27.918)
Right and I'm telling you I mean every every time that that you and I you know I kind of talk about this a little bit And I don't know that either one of us would have necessarily admitted this Even a year ago let alone, you know when we first started this but because I know that I did not I didn't know about half of this shit that's out there, you know as far as things and ways, you know to to be
in recovery or alcohol free or the gray area, the things that we even laugh at, kind of joke about at times, but still the people are doing their thing. And it's this podcast in general, I mean, granted we've heard and we're told it helps other people, but I think that's just an example of helping us. It's widened my mind out. I'm not gonna do anything different than what we're doing, but...
Mike (32:19.329)
Absolutely.
Mike (32:23.935)
Mm -mm.
Bill (32:24.974)
I have a whole lot of, not even just a whole different respect. I've got a whole different like, I don't know, knowledge base of what's out there, which I now respect because now I know about it, you know? And it's not just like hearing about things going, ah, this person doesn't, they're doing this over here, whatever. No, we've talked to, we've met. You know, some of these people we've actually probably spent time with, you know, maybe even these retreats. Not everyone, I don't think was.
Mike (32:35.937)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (32:42.721)
Right. Mm -hmm.
Bill (32:50.858)
AA based at the retreats. I mean, maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but even though it's a 12 step retreat, I don't think it wasn't a requirement that you, I didn't show my AA card, did you, when we walked in? I mean, you know. Yeah, right. Nobody said, hey, did you bring your AA passport? You're all encompassing AA card. Nope, didn't bring it. But I don't know, I just think it's cool. There's been a lot of...
Mike (32:53.088)
Right?
Mike (33:01.537)
No, I did not. I kept it in my pocket.
Mike (33:09.953)
Right.
Mike (33:13.513)
Hehehehehe
Bill (33:19.16)
We've said it before, this podcast is a lot of fun for us. We do this because it helps us and it's a lot of fun. There's so many other, I don't know, spiderwebs side note things and side benefits that this thing has brought that's been nice.
Mike (33:33.843)
Absolutely.
Right. Absolutely. You know, I mean, it's certainly open, you know, um, yeah, it's opened my mind to different paths that, that still work and it's, it's great. Yeah. Like you said, you know, we're not going to change cause it's working for us. Why the hell would we, but, um, I, I certainly am open far more open than I was a couple of years ago to, to the processes of others, which is nice. Yeah. Do your thing, man.
Bill (34:02.094)
Right. Yeah. Our bandwagon's opened up a little bit more and we're inviting more people to hang out with us now. All right. So this one, okay, I'm just going to read this and I want to, I'm just going to read it. Okay. Ready? I don't remember where I got this from. It's a Persian proverb. All right. Whatever is in the heart will come up to the tongue.
Mike (34:12.257)
Yeah!
Mike (34:25.953)
All right.
Mike (34:31.745)
Ah, that was fairly recently. That was from one of the readings.
Bill (34:35.246)
I know, but I couldn't stop laughing like a fucking 13 year old boy when I read it. I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna put this down on my list because I just wanna say it out loud because let's see if it still makes me laugh. And it did, and it did. Whatever is in the heart will come up to the tongue. I get it, I understand it completely. And that the first thing I thought about when I read that was what my first sponsor Bill said to me.
Mike (34:40.915)
Hehehehehe
Mike (34:50.817)
Hehehehehe
Mike (34:57.953)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (35:04.033)
Mm -hmm.
Bill (35:04.302)
when I was coming up on my one year anniversary and when I was going to do my lead, which was one month and four days after my anniversary, or no, one month and one day after my anniversary. And, you know, we were talking about, he said, he goes, whatever, whatever's in your heart, you know, will come out of your mouth and will hit the right people. That's it. And he said the exact thing just in different words, you know, but yeah, I just, it's a great saying, but I couldn't help it. You know, my piggish mind came, you know, popped up too, so.
Mike (35:31.329)
Right. Well, and as well it should, you know, whatever's in your pants should come out your tongue too.
Bill (35:33.902)
Yeah.
Bill (35:41.902)
Yeah, that's what it said, didn't it? Oh, heart. Heart. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But no, I mean, it's... Right. Yeah, popular with the ladies. But yeah, and I didn't even write down what reading it was in, but I knew what was in one. But yeah, it just, again, made me giggle a little bit, but I figured I'd bring that up because I...
Mike (35:44.673)
Don't be selfish. Guys, don't be selfish. Use your tongue too.
Mike (35:58.465)
It's right.
Bill (36:11.726)
because I liked it anyhow. So I'm gonna try to find one last little one here just to see. Oh, here's another heart one. This is from God Grant Me. I didn't read this, I just saw the word heart in it. From God Grant Me, for today, I will work at stepping into the day with all of my heart. Do you feel like you go into every day with all of your heart? That's my question. The reading was for today I will...
Mike (36:20.609)
Mmm.
Mike (36:31.489)
Mmm.
Bill (36:39.182)
work at stepping into the day with all my heart. So do you think that you enter each day with all of your heart? I was laughing because I knew what your answer was going to be.
Mike (36:41.505)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (36:46.785)
Nope, not at all.
Mike (36:53.345)
All right. No, I don't. Um, you know, but again, you know, uh, compared to 14 years ago, I step into the day with much more of my heart than I did then. Um, yeah, I, you know, I, I don't dread the day. I, I actually go into the day started today. I was like, I was raring to go cause I was going to get this shit over with and start my weekend and get it all going good. But, um,
Yeah, you know, it's definitely a, it's a process and I'm, you know, working along. No, not my entire heart. There are days where I go off, fuck, I gotta get up and do this again. Sometimes even days off, it's like, ah, shit, I gotta get up and go do whatever. And I don't want to with my entire heart, but you know what? I get up off my ass and I go out and I do what I need to do.
Bill (37:32.462)
Heheheheh
Mike (37:47.041)
At the end of the day, I go, well, fuck, I really didn't want to do that, but I'm glad I did.
Bill (37:54.158)
Right. Well, and you know, the first thing I thought about when I read that, when I wrote it down, I forgot until I just read it again, but was it, you know, I knew your answer was going to be no, that's number one, because that was my answer too, and I think I know you well enough. But then the other thing was, I thought, honestly, I thought you would say no, but I take the action and do it anyhow.
Mike (38:10.047)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (38:16.065)
Yeah, well, I got there. I just used more words.
Bill (38:20.402)
Right, right. But that's exactly what I thought about because once again, this doesn't happen every morning, but I mean, I've said it before, you have to get up, I'm fucking tired, I'm sore, I stretch and I'm like, fuck me or the alarm goes off. I'm cloudy to the point where I'm like, what the fuck, man? And then I'm like, fuck me. And it doesn't mean that I don't, again, it could be a day off, it could be a work day.
Mike (38:37.467)
Hehehehehe
Mike (38:47.265)
Mmm.
Bill (38:47.598)
I'm happy with my job. It's given me that, I don't know, it's again, the competitiveness, everything, the chance to make money and it's fueling everything that I wanna do. So there's, I do, I enjoy every part of it, but still I'm fucking tired. I don't wanna get up. I'm tired.
Mike (38:49.793)
Sure.
Mike (38:54.305)
Alright.
Mike (39:01.665)
Yeah. Right. Yeah, I know. I'm tired, man. I'm old. Fuck. Wait, right. Are you people supposed to take care of the elderly? God damn it. Isn't it my turn? Oh, wait. No, that's right. I fucking lived for 40 years like that. I guess I better get my ass up and do something.
Bill (39:16.274)
Right, right.
Bill (39:22.83)
Yeah, we still gotta still gotta get back so let last thing here real quick and I think I'm looking at the time I mean we've I think we've talked about the same amount of time as what we what we got fucked up into the beginning but um so um kind of so nice the uh well we had Ali's birthday party uh well we I'm sorry that they had Ali's birthday party last week and it was nice just kind of laid back thing at this little play area so it's cool again very laid back he was very into his friends he wanted nothing to do with me or anyone else.
Mike (39:41.471)
Mmm.
Bill (39:52.014)
Which is how it should be. Until the end, everyone left, then he grabbed my hand and took me into the play area so I could watch him go down the slide. It was pretty fun. But I didn't take offense to it. I know he was there playing with his friends. And usually he does. I mean, for whatever reason, the kid adores me and he's got my heart. But then they all came over on Monday and we had dinner. I just went up to Pick and Save and got these marinated chicken breasts and made that. We just hung out for a little while. It was just nice.
Mike (39:59.105)
Nice.
Bill (40:20.686)
It was just nice hanging out with the kids and Kimmy and Ollie were trying to, she was going to try to bring them down on Saturday, but he didn't take a, he didn't like go down for a nap until late. So that didn't end up happening. But, but still, I mean, I got to see him on Sunday because Derek came up there too. And then, you know, got to hang out on Monday and it was just, you know, again, I'm sitting there and I'm just hanging out with my kids. And I don't know. I mean, it's, it's one thing, you know, I, it's not that I haven't seen my kids since I've been down in Indiana, but.
You know, not as much, obviously, as when I was up here. And I don't know, it just, we always talk about that I'm such a huge proponent of, you know, quality time, you know, and I, I know that sounds cliche in some ways, but, you know, I, I love my kids. I got a great relationship with them. Even if I don't get to hang out with them all the time, having those it's moments, you know, we collect moments these days and I don't know. It's just, it was, it was really fucking nice. And I just wanted to, I wanted to share that.
So there.
Mike (41:22.049)
You know, well if we have if we've learned anything it's these fucking cliches actually have meetings so that's okay
Bill (41:23.534)
Did I lose you?
Bill (41:34.542)
Right. And that was, that was really fucking weird. And I think it's, this is a really good time to end because I literally thought that you were gone. That was like seven or eight seconds, I think on that delay. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to shut up. I'm going to let you run out of here and then, uh, well do yet. Run us out of here.
Mike (41:53.161)
Alright everyone, well thank you for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. As always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it. Guess what? It's time. It's time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream,
And keep fucking off forever.
Bill (42:28.622)
He got nice and calm there at the end, which was kind of fun and new and exciting. And just in case we're still on a delay, all I'm going to say is that, you know what? Yes. Everything that Mike said, thank you for listening. Mike, I love you, brother. I know I'll see you tomorrow. And I'll say my goodbyes now. Goodbye.
Mike (42:50.913)
I love you too, brother. I will see you tomorrow. Bye.
