SoberNotMature - Episode 112 (Did He Mention He's A Hiker?)

Bill (00:01.71)
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of sober, not mature. And, uh, yeah, both Mike and I were kind of clearing our throats and doing that. He starts doing the me, me, me, me, me. Yeah. We had a, had a brief conversation before we started about podcast business. And then, um, and I'm like, I got to clear my throat. So I paused that he starts doing that shit. He's like, uh, he goes, what?

Mike (00:12.391)
Heheheh, la la la la la.

Mike (00:20.647)
Uh -huh.

Mike (00:27.975)
Oh

Bill (00:28.398)
Guess I had to clear my throat too, because if anyone listened last week also, last week was when I, yeah, when I started off kind of like choked on my own spit, I think, right? So, yeah, these fucking weeks are flying, but in a good way, in an absolutely good way. You know, I'm in the Ozarks again, so I'm sitting out here, not out here, I'm sitting here looking out, again, over like water and stuff like that, so it's quite lovely.

Mike (00:37.351)
Yes, you did. That was last week. Yes.

Mike (00:55.463)
Mmm.

Bill (00:56.654)
And it's a shit man. I looked at the, the weather here, like this week has been, it's, it was nice on like Monday, Tuesday in the seventies, I think, uh, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, then it cooled off and then, uh, kind of supposed to be in like the fucking eighties tomorrow. Like tomorrow and yeah, tomorrow and Sunday. So I'm like, there's a couple of different, uh, like parts that there's a huge like state park in different areas. And I, I found this, this one trail online that, um, it's a, I don't.

Mike (01:12.135)
Nice.

Mike (01:24.167)
Uh -huh.

Bill (01:24.878)
I'm just, I'm new to all this hiking stuff. You know, first time I ever ever actually went hiking except for fucking years ago. I take walks with people.

Mike (01:30.759)
Right? Yeah, right. When you know, right? You're drunk and fucking they kicked out of the party and you didn't have a ride. Uh -huh.

Bill (01:35.054)
No, I actually did. There are a ton of trails around Wisconsin. I've gone there like with Dawn, a couple other people that I was seeing at the time. Just nice places to take a walk and stuff like that. But I don't know anything about there's these, they call them loop trails or one way trails or this and that. A one way trail is exactly what you think. It just goes and then stops and doesn't come back to the same place, which all the other ones, they go around in a big circle.

Mike (01:46.311)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (01:56.263)
Hehehehehe

Bill (02:01.55)
This one that I saw that I went past on the way back from the one I went to last weekend, it's no shit. It's 14 miles. Okay. So I pulled into this little lot and I was just looking at it, you know, for like, for this coming weekend. Once like seven miles, once like fucking 14. And I mean, a 14 mile trail like that. They're like, it's like 14 hours. And I'm like, well, what the fuck did these people fucking do? You know, I mean, I suppose you can camp in some of these.

Mike (02:10.503)
Uh huh.

Mike (02:25.767)
Hmm. Hmm.

We crawling. No, man. I mean, uh, you walk about four miles an hour. So I don't know where. Yeah. Not one mile an hour.

Bill (02:31.502)
Hahaha!

Bill (02:37.678)
Yeah.

Well, and the other thing too is that I suppose it depends and I don't know. Again, this goes back to what I said to begin with. I'm not like the, you know, this, you know, big hiker or anything like that. So the trail that I went on, which is in the same one I went on last, well, in September, it's about a mile and a half. And they say it takes you about an hour. Okay. Because it's not like you're walking straight down a street, you know, you're walking along and up and down and little inclines, nothing real big, but you know, you're in an area where if you.

Mike (02:50.567)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (03:03.047)
Yeah, right.

Bill (03:09.422)
If you walk too hard to the left, you're going to fall. I mean, not down like a cliff, but probably a good 20, 30 feet. Nothing that my 55 -year -old body would want to do. Okay. So maybe that's the thing with the terrain and whatever, but that one's got apparently like this waterfall, but I don't know how many fucking miles it is. Is it one mile in? Is it seven miles in? So I'm like, I'm not going to do that one. I'll go on the other one. But it's a...

Mike (03:12.071)
Heheheheh. Eh? Uh -huh.

Mike (03:21.159)
Exactly.

Mike (03:34.855)
Mmm.

Hehehehehe

Bill (03:38.318)
It goes along, apparently, part of one of the lakes, and it's a one -way thing, but apparently very scenic. So, I don't know, I'm all about this stuff now, you know, getting out and seeing some fucking nature, you know? Yeah, I don't know, it just, I enjoy it, I enjoy getting out and the stuff, it's just fucking beautiful, you know? So.

Mike (03:44.167)
Mm -hmm.

All right. Well.

Mike (03:56.007)
Absolutely. Right. Well, it's cloudy and rainy and windy as fuck here today. So I hope we don't lose power here.

Bill (04:02.478)
Right, oh yeah, and speaking of that, I almost forgot to pause. Hang on, you can keep talking, but I'm...

Mike (04:06.503)
Nah, all right. Well, I keep talking, but yeah, we're getting 50 mile an hour gusts. So, um, yeah, it's yeah. Yup. Yup. Oh yeah. Shits blowing all over the place. So again, you know, I'm hoping, uh, Cleveland public power maintains their shit for at least an hour and a half.

Bill (04:10.478)
Alright now.

Bill (04:22.606)
Right after that fuck everyone, right?

Mike (04:25.351)
Well, I don't know. I'd like to have lights and heat, but you know, whatever.

Bill (04:27.598)
Yeah, I know. I know. But yeah, it's I mean, seriously, it's it was rainy for a couple of days. And I mean, it poured like a motherfucker for the last two days off and on, not just like light rain. It fucking poured, you know, and I'm like, well, that's even beautiful. But it's it was nice today. Yeah. Oh, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I got a couple of couple of things about, you know, just.

Mike (04:41.447)
Mm -hmm.

Now from inside, right.

Bill (04:52.302)
I don't want to say, well, I suppose incidents. There's a couple of items I want to talk to you about the trip, you know, so far. But I think, as you said, you didn't have a reading, but you're going to open up the book and see where we land, right? All right.

Mike (04:57.959)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. I don't. We are. We are. We're going to flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. Let's see here. Let's go past that. Racka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -dicka -d

Bill (05:09.326)
spin the wheel.

Hahaha!

Bill (05:18.702)
You good? All right.

Mike (05:27.399)
Let's see. All right. May 24th. What the hell? Um, let yourself never wander too far from that which you love. It is your source of strength and alcoholics anonymous member said that as addicts, we loved illusions while rejoice while rejecting love of humanity and spirit. We claim to love good things, but our actions were not actions of love.

Bill (05:29.23)
Heheheheh

Mike (05:56.135)
In recovery, love is always a verb. We seek authentic love through our actions, love that heals wounds and brings us close to others. This love brings smiles and tears of gratitude and leaves us knowing we are never alone. If we look closely, we can see a glimmer of the divine in such love. It sees others as spirit. It works to bring out the best in others, not the worst.

The man who spoke the above quotation has been in recovery for over 30 years. He says his long -term relationship with recovery has taught him how to have other long -term relationships. This year he celebrated his 25th wedding anniversary. His gratitude is enormous for recovery's lessons of love. Prayer for the day. Higher power, you have given me spiritual principles. As I put them into action,

The love they hold is released. Help me to be a person of loving action. Hey, today's action. Today I will make a list of all the wonderful relationships that recovery has given to me. I will try to see each as a gift of love.

Bill (07:12.622)
Nice. Um, so that was a, that was a whole lot about love. Um, hang on. I'll just make it one more quick note, or this will be like a, like a half note. It won't, I can't read my handwriting anyhow as I'm doing all this. Yes, exactly. Some, some sort of fucking note, but, um, yeah, whole lot about love. Now that reminded me of, and I guess remind our, you know, the listening folks, if, uh, if you've got some, some people that haven't been around for a minute. So you, you used.

Mike (07:16.359)
It was.

Mike (07:24.647)
a half note, quarter note, eighth note.

Mike (07:30.599)
Okay.

Mike (07:40.551)
Uh huh.

Bill (07:42.286)
love in a particular way when when you first got sober and I think you still do, am I correct on that?

Mike (07:47.207)
Yeah, I bet. It's certainly part of it. Yeah. Um, okay. So, uh, well, how far back do we want to go? Uh, all right. In the beginning, there was no, um, right. Well, as I've mentioned once or twice on here, I'm an atheist, still an atheist. Um, and, um, the higher power part of this program, which it is power greater than yourself, um, scared the shit out of me.

Bill (07:53.902)
In the beginning.

Mike (08:16.359)
And, um, very early on in recovery, I, uh, you know, this is a real original thought, but you know, God is love, love is God, blah, blah, blah. Um, but yeah, it was my first, um, and entrance into, into a power greater than myself. Um, it was the first, and this was, I don't know, month, month and a half, maybe two months into being sober at the Keating center. Um,

Yeah, you know, I just had that, that epiphany of shit, man. Love is a power greater than myself, you know, um, that my granddaughter at the time, um, just turned two, you know, and, and this little, this little girl looking at me with love in her eyes, she didn't know what I fucking was. And yet she's still, you know, or she did or whatever, but she still looked at me with that look of love in her eyes. And I went, well, fuck.

Bill (09:04.27)
Hahaha!

Mike (09:13.223)
There's a power greater than me. Um, and you know, and just, um, you know, all that goddamn rock and roll songs, uh, over the years, you know, uh, all you need is love and, and, uh, love is a drug for me and, uh, many, many more, many, many more, you know, what's the, uh, Louis one, uh, oh, the power of love. Yes. Uh, right. You know, right. All those, and there's, there's a million of them and I could sit here and list them all, but I won't.

Bill (09:27.886)
Hehehehe

Mike (09:42.951)
because I don't want people turning off their devices going, Jesus Christ, man, mellow out. So anyway, right, so yes, love was my first, and in reading the very godly 24 -hour book, originally I substituted the word love for God in all the readings, and that worked pretty damn well. Yeah, so that's kind of the...

Bill (09:43.182)
Hahaha!

Bill (09:48.014)
We get it.

Mike (10:11.751)
Roundabout way of saying yes love was kind of my first power greater than myself and it still is you know Whenever I lead I'll talk about you know all my power is greater than myself in my life many of them and You don't need to know what they are, but you just need to know it's not me

Bill (10:30.222)
Right. And I just think that that the reason I bring that up and I know you've talked about it and you probably feel like endlessly on here, but you know, I think that we always talk about, you know, things that have worth and I think that has a lot of worth because, you know, a lot of people struggled with including me. I mean, I struggled with the whole higher power thing and you made it something that was, it was something so simple and it's tangible and it's understandable to anyone. Not that anyone has to choose that, but it,

Mike (10:36.039)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:43.047)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (10:50.855)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:54.823)
Mmm.

Bill (10:59.438)
The point is, is that whatever is that it could be the most simplistic thing. It doesn't have to be a complicated thing. Um, just like you said, you know, there are powers greater. Right. Yeah. As, as it turns out, imagine that, right? But, um, but yeah, it just, it's, it's one of those things where, um, it doesn't, the point is it doesn't matter what it is. We have to have, we need to acquire or, or believe in or have a power greater than ourselves. And that's it. It doesn't matter what it is, you know,

Mike (11:05.479)
Mm -hmm. Kind of works out better if it's a simple thing. Yep. Mm.

Mike (11:23.751)
Mm -hmm. Right. Yeah. Rely on, right.

Bill (11:29.614)
Yeah, exactly. That's a better word than whatever I just said. You know what is funny? I'm like, I was going to say a better word. I don't even know what I just said. Remember, he's never done. He just keeps on talking. It doesn't know what he says. So can you do me a favor? Do you still have your book out? Can you read that opening quote again? Because it was, yeah.

Mike (11:33.159)
No.

Mike (11:38.695)
Hehehehehe

That's right. Mm -hmm.

Mike (11:49.383)
I do the opening quote. Sure. Uh, let yourself never wander too far from that, which you love. It is your source of strength.

Bill (11:59.31)
Right. And I, I liked that. That was about to write that down. I'm like, there's no way I can write that all down. You know, but I mean, just in the, right. Yeah. By, by one of us, one of us sober dudes too. So, um, that, I mean, that's almost, it just, it made me feel like, wow, that's a, what a, what a good description of what happens to, if not all of us, us alcoholics and drug addicts, but most of us at least, you know, we were.

Mike (12:04.391)
Right. Thankfully it's already written down for us in this book right here.

Mike (12:23.335)
Mm -hmm. Mm. Oh, yeah.

Bill (12:27.374)
we were drawn away from those and the things that we love through our own addiction. So I mean, I don't know, I'm not one of those people like to have awe moments and stuff like that. It wasn't really that, it was just kind of like, I'm like, holy shit, that's, even though I've read that before, I get it. I remember the 25 year wedding relationship or anniversary and all that stuff, but man, I just didn't remember that reading, that quote, you know? But I really like it.

Mike (12:31.431)
Absolutely.

Mike (12:43.303)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (12:53.095)
Hmm. Yeah. And I think, um, and I think, um, you know, we've talked about plenty of times, you know, the, the phrase to that own self be true, that Shakespeare quote, since we learned that on here. Um, right. I think, um, I think that's a far more applicable, um, use of to that own self be true. You know, the things that you love, the things that you truly care about more than to your own self being true to that.

person that you are, because we've talked about it on here plenty of times, you know, person that I am is a liar, cheat and a thief. I don't want to be true that I want to be true to something better than that. And being true to the things that you truly care about, the things that you love is a far better way to do that.

Bill (13:39.79)
Right. Yeah. And it just, I don't know, I said that quote just kind of, kind of hit me and I was like, damn, that's a good one. That's a damn, that's a good, that's a good one. And this was again, fucking random. You just literally just flipped open the book and came across some, some random reading, which I, which I think is fun. So it talked about a couple of notes I wrote down, not actions of love, obviously talking about how we were acting. I wrote down never alone. I think it might've been as we, I forget where that, that was towards the beginning.

Mike (13:44.967)
Yeah, cool. That's a good one.

Mike (13:54.151)
Yeah.

Mike (14:03.111)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (14:08.846)
Bringing out the best in others. Oh, it was all about talking about love. Obviously we're never alone if we have love bringing out the best in others better relationships and then the end part obviously listing a list of wonderful relationships, but So but the thing of it is too and we've talked about it Specifically that when we get better, it just seems like everyone else gets better, right? So that's the that's the bringing out the best I would the way that I looked at is like that's the bringing out the best in others, right?

Mike (14:09.575)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (14:14.407)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (14:23.143)
Hehehehe.

Mike (14:38.183)
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And well, and I, the line I really like is, uh, in recovery, love is always a verb, which, you know, um, I mean, again, program of action, right? You know, verb is an action word, you know, all the time we were told, you know, gratitude is an action. Love is an action. You know, we can, we can have these feelings and whatever and thoughts and beliefs. And, but if we don't put them into action, then they're fucking worthless.

Bill (14:45.198)
Right.

Bill (15:05.262)
Right. Well, yeah, that is the key. It's like, you know, apologizing to somebody, you know, I mean, don't apologize for the action, you know, or don't apologize for the for the thing that you did change, you know, change the behavior and same deal. You know, I mean, it's don't don't say how grateful you are. Show, you know, do something and the same deal. I mean, I tell there's and I know I've talked about it before, but it's been God, probably five, six, seven years ago.

Mike (15:12.007)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:17.575)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:24.167)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (15:34.606)
And I had this, and I'll call it an epiphany or just a mindful moment or whatever it was, but I figured out that I can love on different levels. You know, a difference between, you know, I mean, there's true love and romantic love and obviously being in love, that's one thing. But not, love doesn't have to be that extreme. You know, you can have the love of a really good friend, a good relationship, you know, another man in your life, you know, a brother or sister.

Mike (15:39.975)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:44.871)
Mm, right.

Mike (15:56.295)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:04.27)
I love my kids differently than I love you versus my sister and that sort of thing. And there's a lot of friends of mine that I have a true feeling of love for, but it's not romantic. You and I have got a ton of fucking female friends and there's a ton of them that I would say I love you, but I'm like, hey, I love you, baby.

Mike (16:08.391)
Right.

Mike (16:16.423)
Sure.

No question.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (16:25.831)
Right, right, right. But yes, well, yeah, we again, we've talked about the base instincts and right. Yes, which is, which again is growth and growing up and for this sober, but not mature podcast, a maturing. Yes, we can, we can truly love someone of the opposite sex and not, you know, mostly not want to get in their pants.

Bill (16:31.022)
Right.

Bill (16:42.478)
the

Bill (16:52.174)
Right and there's but there's a point even with a with a friend, you know, I just just for me to To say I love you. But what would I do for that person? You know, how do I show it? Am I am I kind to them? Do I show up for that person? You know and those sort of things do I if the person you know either whether they do something nice for me Am I willing to do something nice for them? That's all that you know that who we become and and all those sort of things and that that comes out and again bringing out the best in others because I

Mike (17:02.503)
Right.

Mm -hmm.

Bill (17:19.854)
You know, there's a, I probably have a ton of stories about, I'd say Dawn specifically, you know, because, um, I mean, she and I had, she, she probably saw the worst of me, but not at the, at the end, I guess she wasn't there for the end part, but yeah, exactly. You know, which is, which is a really good thing, obviously, but, but she.

Mike (17:25.671)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (17:33.063)
Mm -hmm. Right. Yeah, she got the fuck out before that happened. Yeah, right. Yeah, well, I'm sure she saw it coming. But anyway, go ahead. Sorry, man. Right. Mm -hmm.

Bill (17:43.854)
No, you don't know what I can take it because you're 100 % true and I I'll never disagree with you on that but After I got sober and stuff and we're you know, this relationship and stuff like that between us is is Rebuilding, you know, I could see it every once in a while She would you know say something like oh by the way that this is gonna happen and blah blah blah and I'm like, okay and you know, she's

Mike (18:02.055)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (18:07.534)
She's sitting there and almost mentally sitting there with her hands up and her fist made going, okay, I'm ready for you motherfucker. You're gonna start fighting me, aren't you? And then I just say, okay, and she's like, no, okay. You know, and because, you know, so I was helping, I mean, really in a case like that, not that I'm saying I didn't make Donna a better person, but I allowed her to act more human around me because I was more human around her. And think about that, all the people we used to piss off that,

Mike (18:15.015)
Right? Mm -hmm.

Okay, good.

Mike (18:29.799)
Mm -hmm. Mm. Right.

Bill (18:36.59)
You know, literally not that we made them act a certain way, but they acted out of character because they were reacting, you know.

Mike (18:36.743)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:41.863)
Yeah, we did. We made them, or make them walk on eggshells or right. Exactly. Yes. We made them worse people because they had to be around us. Yeah. Yippee. It's a fucked way to live, man.

Bill (18:48.142)
Right.

Bill (18:55.31)
Right. Yeah, it really is. And, you know, for any, again, for anyone out there that's listening to us that's new, I mean, both Mike and I were, I'd say fortunate, but fortunate in the fact that we were willing to do the work to mend these relationships. But I mean, our relationships came back into play. I mean, my relationship with my daughter took a couple of years, you know, a few years, whatever it was.

Mike (19:16.199)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (19:22.407)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:23.566)
But relatively speaking, these things came back into play. But it does take time and it takes humility and it takes just shutting your fucking mouth every once in a while more and more times than you would. And not saying what's on your mind because that's the other person. They don't know. They don't know that you're changing. So they're ready to react and if they do, you just got to fucking take it. Which is...

Mike (19:36.135)
Absolutely.

Mike (19:44.871)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (19:49.511)
Yup.

Bill (19:51.502)
Painful at times, but you know what the end result is shit. I mean once again almost almost 14 years down the road You know, we talked about this stuff and you know, who do we have resentments again? No one who do we have issues with in our life? No one that we know about you know If someone's got a problem with us that that's their fucking problem if they don't tell us about it, you know, so Yeah, it's a to say it's a better way to live as a is an understatement, right?

Mike (20:05.191)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:09.062)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:15.911)
Absolutely. Absolutely. So live with some love.

Bill (20:20.974)
You were cutting out a little bit. Can you hear me?

Mike (20:25.991)
Yeah, I can hear you.

Bill (20:27.438)
Okay, yeah, just for a minute there when you said something about living for some love, you cut out for a second, but it's okay. It happens. We're all, you know, we're ready for this technology shift, but we're just going to keep working through because it seems to happen bits and pieces as everyone knows, you know, and then we start up a new session, we get another, you know, 30 to 40 minutes out of this and then we're good. So, but yeah, but other than that, I mean, obviously I just wrote down list of wonderful relationships. And I think, I mean, all of them, you know, I mean, I don't have any.

Mike (20:32.295)
Hehehehe... Uh -huh.

Bill (20:56.014)
I don't have any bad relationships, you know, these days. I don't think you do either, right?

Mike (21:00.775)
No, not from my side of things. Nope. There's a few people out there that, you know, um, have problems of their own. And, uh, that comes down to the serenity prayer, man, wisdom to know the fucking difference.

Bill (21:03.31)
Right.

Bill (21:10.35)
Right well and that and that's the thing too that that goes back to our side of the street You know just because somebody has a fucking problem with us even if we do know We can't necessarily well we can't fix it You know we can do whatever we can clean up our shit try to you know make the effort right put out the put out the hand try to help do whatever it is but if the person is You know lifting up a you know the the peace sign the peace sign to us with only the one finger

Mike (21:29.351)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (21:38.279)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (21:39.021)
What the fuck can we do? Nothing. Walk away. That's all you can do, you know?

Mike (21:41.607)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, my side of the street is clean and I really hope that they clean up theirs.

Bill (21:48.718)
Right. And you know, like I said, it's a cliche statement sometimes, but man, it's a lot better way to live, right?

Mike (21:56.807)
Absolutely. I lay my head down at night and I'm fucking yeah, I go to sleep.

Bill (22:02.894)
Yeah, and you know what I do I feel I feel for people I was gonna say feel bad But I hope and I feel bad for somebody even if it's somebody I know I just I feel for people that have sleep problems because I don't get it You know in the only time that literally I think the only time that I've ever had since I've been sober That I've had trouble sleeping is when it's for a good reason I'm excited about something that's happening in the next day where I got good shit rolling around in my head

Mike (22:27.143)
Mm -hmm, right Mm -hmm

Bill (22:30.222)
The bad shit I've been able to, you know, 10 step and put aside, I almost said bury, but I'm not burying it. I'm just putting it over in this cabinet over here until the next day, because I need to get some fucking sleep, you know? But...

Mike (22:34.727)
Mm -hmm. Mm -mm. No. Right.

Mike (22:43.495)
Yeah. And, and, and, you know, having the faith that, you know, you're doing the right thing and it is going to work out eventually, even if you can't fucking see what the solution is yet. That's okay too. Yeah, that's fine. You know, fuck man, powerless. And, um, yes, it is an issue and, but it's going to be okay one way or another. Yep. It's fucking great.

Bill (22:53.166)
Right. Yeah.

Bill (23:04.142)
Right? Yeah. It's, and that is the, you know, that's like the old saying, you know, the only thing we know is that, you know, the only thing we know about life is it, is it goes on, you know, one way or the other, it's going to fucking work itself out, right?

Mike (23:14.663)
Yep. Absolutely.

Bill (23:18.83)
Good, bad, or indifferent.

Mike (23:20.455)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (23:21.902)
So anything else about the reading, I'm gonna give you a good kudos on that one for the, even though it was a shot. I mean, seriously, you know, I mean, what did we say was your favorite thing about, you know, when we started this thing, man, shooting our wad into the wind. I mean, that's, you know, that's kind of what makes this thing so much fun. And dare I say mildly successful, at least to maybe this, you know, 70 or 80 people a week that listen to it.

Mike (23:26.503)
Yeah, for just flipping the page, right?

Mike (23:37.159)
Mm -hmm.

Absolutely.

Mike (23:46.823)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah

Bill (23:50.67)
Oh, I gotta tell you this and I should look at the hang on one second. So we're not about stats and stuff like this, but over these last couple of weeks, I've been just kind of fucking blown away on this. Let me see if I can get into this and actually see it from here. Our audience.

Oh, this is so bad. Fuck it. This is all time. Okay, so in the last 30 days the majority of the you know, we've been having more more dudes are listening than women But over the last like 30 days or something like that and it's been like this over the last couple of months But it's like 75 % and then like a week ago one week. It was like fucking 93 % were dudes and I'm like Where all the ladies at?

Mike (24:21.671)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (24:35.367)
Mmm.

Hehehehehe

Bill (24:39.534)
But I mean, and then we're still we're crushing it on the age group of 35 to 44. That's the age group that, you know, for whatever reason. Again, gentlemen, I have no fucking idea where you came from, you 35 to 45 or 44 year olds. But go find some fucking women to bring in here. And I'm not saying that for any other reason, but let's spread this audience out a little bit. You know, we have our ups and downs and we've had a stable.

Mike (24:47.239)
Wow.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (24:56.455)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (25:00.231)
Hehehehehe

Mike (25:05.351)
out.

Bill (25:09.07)
We've had a stable audience for, I mean, we've been doing this for two years now. We've had a stable audience for probably a year solid, you know, if not a year plus, you know, so we, there's always a certain number of people that are going to listen. I get it. It's dropped a little bit, not a big deal. It comes and goes, but, um, yeah, shit, the split and it's so fucking weird because again, Instagram still 60 some percent, 63, 65 % of our followers on Instagram are women.

Mike (25:15.879)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mike (25:37.735)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (25:38.158)
in the same age group, okay? So, gentlemen, I don't know, tell a fucking friend, you know? That's it. So, I don't know. That's it. I'm not gonna beg you to have people listen, but hey, you know, let's even this shit out and help us grow a little bit if you do it that way, so. We would, and thank you, thank you kindly in advance for your cooperation. So, anything, nothing more about the reading? All good?

Mike (25:45.831)
Right. That's it. That's it.

Mike (25:56.551)
We would appreciate it.

Mike (26:01.991)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (26:07.143)
Yeah, I think we're good.

Bill (26:08.334)
Okay, so before I ramble about this trip thing, the eclipse, obviously the eclipse happened this week, so you were able to see it. You seem to be sort of amazed by this event, if I'm not wrong.

Mike (26:15.047)
Mmm. It did.

Mike (26:23.111)
It was pretty damn cool. Right. Yeah. I mean, uh, well, you know, here in Cleveland, um, it w we were in the path of totality. So we've got the full, full deal. Um, yeah, I was, uh, I was working that day and, um, I, uh, yeah, I happened to be delivering at a best buy distribution center and, uh, I.

I timed it out where I had, yeah, I pulled into the back of the place. Um, it was, uh, there was like, well, nobody around and, uh, I parked my truck and, uh, got out and watched it by myself. And, uh, yeah, it was pretty damn cool. You know, I had some, uh, had some glasses. Thank you city of Cleveland. Uh, Chris, they handed them out at work at city hall. So I had a nice pair of glasses and yeah, you know,

Bill (27:17.454)
Nice.

Mike (27:21.031)
took a few pictures with my phone and yeah it was it was just it was it was pretty damn amazing you know the natural wonder you know fuck look at that moon in the way of the in the way of the Sun

Bill (27:31.694)
So quick question and again, like you just said you were in the path of that total or that Totality thing and you know Kimmy and Brian I don't know if you saw on on Facebook Brian got a couple of really fucking amazing pictures, too And I saw yours, but did it go dark completely? Okay Okay

Mike (27:39.911)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mike (27:47.463)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (27:51.303)
Oh yeah. No, completely. Yeah. Oh, to the point where, I mean, you could look, I mean, I took the glasses off. You look square at the sun. It was just the little ring. That's all you could see. And you could look directly at it. Yeah. Yeah. It got dark. Oh, the lights came on at the, at the distribution center. Cause you know, they're all, uh, light sensitive. So yeah, all the lights in the parking lot came on. It was, yeah, it was cool.

Totally pitch black.

Bill (28:21.646)
Yeah, and you know, I looked at it, I don't know if it was before I came down here or probably last weekend, probably Saturday, well, probably Sunday when I was sitting around and just wondering how it was gonna be where I am, which, and you know, they're like, oh, you know, if you really wanna see it, you wanna go a couple hours south, blah, blah, blah, and of course I'm like, I'm fucking working, I can't. So, and I set up my desk and stuff, so I'm literally, the patio and stuff is to my left and I'm sitting right next to it, so.

Mike (28:32.359)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (28:36.231)
Right?

Mike (28:41.127)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:51.598)
I mean, it was Monday, it was nice. I mean, it was 70 degrees, I think, and sunny. And, you know, as it gets closer and stuff like that, I, you know, kind of looking outside and the sun is being, you know, at that time of day is like behind me or above or behind me a little bit where the audience stuff is. So I couldn't actually see the sun and, you know, got like a little bit overcast. And then I'm looking at them, I'm on a phone and I'm looking outside of them, like just overcast, you know, I mean, that's all it looked like.

Mike (28:56.007)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mike (29:05.639)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (29:10.695)
Right?

Mm -hmm.

Mike (29:19.079)
Right. Except it wasn't. Yeah. Except it wasn't.

Bill (29:21.07)
Yeah, like it was right. Like it was just cloud cover, you know? Then I looked on my phone, I looked it up real quick, because I paused what I was doing, and I'm like, you know, once the eclipse happening, it's like, it's happening now. I'm like, fuck, it doesn't look like shit. Then it got sunny again, you know? So no darkness or anything like that. But I mean, literally, where I am in Osage Beach was not in that, directly in the path. Not at all, not at all. But, eh.

Mike (29:24.391)
Yeah.

Mike (29:32.711)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, right.

Mike (29:43.847)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, that's about what I experienced. What? So, uh, 2017 I was, uh, down by Dayton. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it got, it looked like it was, you know, the light got diffused and it would look like clouds, like it was overcast, you know, but it wasn't, there were no clouds. It was just the sun being partially blocked, but yeah, here, but here it was totally fucking blocked.

Bill (30:13.326)
Yeah, see now that, and that would have been cool. I was just kind of like, I'm like, I'm like, eh, cause they, I was in, um, actually I was in Milwaukee in 2017. I remember where I was working and it was just like, we all walked outside and it was like, it was, it was overcast. It was overcast and cloudy that day. So you got nothing. I mean, there was no nothing at all that we saw. And then years ago, I think it would have been probably late nineties. I was working for a company on the Northwest side of Milwaukee and we did the whole, I don't think we had.

Mike (30:29.287)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

Bill (30:43.214)
glasses, we did the paper plate thing, whatever, but it got almost like it like goldish. It was weird. It was it. Yeah, it got overcast to that point, but same deal, not total darkness. So it'd be kind of cool. But I mean, I think the next one is what, 24 years from now? Let's see, do the math. No, I don't think I'm going to see that one. You know, who knows? Who knows? If I am somebody.

Mike (30:45.543)
Mmm.

Mike (30:49.159)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (30:59.207)
Yeah, right.

Mike (31:03.463)
Right? Be sitting in a chair with wheels on it.

Bill (31:10.062)
Yeah, somebody can fucking wheel my ass outside with my space glasses on and I'll take a look at it then. So as I'm shitting myself, I'll watch the eclipse. But so the other thing too is that, what was funny was is that, so same deal. I'm at the same place I was last time and there's the, it's a condo, you know, community here. It's right on the water and then they got the boat launch or the docks and all that stuff out there. And.

Mike (31:19.495)
Yeah!

Mike (31:33.799)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (31:38.542)
I'm sure during the summer again, like I said before, this whole area has got to be just one big fucking party. But I mean, during the day and stuff like that here, I mean, it's it's quiet. There's still be some people out here and there when it was nice. But on Monday, there was like this whole group of people they must have taken. I mean, they're retiring people that are down here, whatever they're having their little little party down there. Listen to classic rock. You can tell they're drinking whatever that I hear this same thing, the shit going on to the right of me. It was this literally this whole.

Mike (32:01.991)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (32:07.982)
fucking party atmosphere. I mean nothing really going on, but I'm just like, okay, so we're having an eclipse party. Okay, I gotcha. It was just, it was odd to me, but even at the time I was drinking, I was drinking, no I wasn't 2017, I wasn't, but back in the 90s I was. I don't remember that being like, hey man, it's the eclipse, let's party. I don't, we didn't need that.

Mike (32:14.759)
Right? Mm -hmm.

Mike (32:27.079)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (32:30.631)
Right. Well, why would you exactly who didn't need that excuse? It's like St. Patrick's Day or New Year's Eve, you know, I'm drinking anyway. Get the fuck out of my way. Right.

Bill (32:42.446)
Right. Right.

Yeah, but it was just it was weird and the same thing, you know, not had nothing to do with, you know, I again you everyone out there knows if you listen for a minute, neither one of us believe in triggers. But, you know, again, it's in the 70s. I mean, like I'm in this vacationy type of spot and all these people kind of this party mode in the only thing that it does. It didn't. Well, first of all, I'm working, you know, that's number one. But on top of that is just that, you know, it's this it's almost this physical feeling of remembering if that makes any sense. So.

Mike (33:01.319)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:07.111)
Right.

Bill (33:15.214)
It's almost like, you know, that I feel like I was in this atmosphere, but I felt the same way at Founders Day the first time I went there, you know? You know, but you know what I mean? And same thing, I wasn't triggered or anything like that. It just, it's a great example of the place and there's shit going on and it reminds me of and whatever. Does not make me want to drink, not at all, not even a little fucking bit. But again, you just get these old, it's like, okay, I remember what this feels like.

Mike (33:15.559)
Sure.

Mike (33:22.663)
Right? Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:38.855)
Mm -mm. Right.

Bill (33:44.43)
I remember what I used to do on days like this. And I would be like, it would have been so stupid in my mind. We're going to party for the eclipse in my head. Then I'm like, wait, there's booze involved, right? Count me in. And again, that could have been a random Saturday or a normal Tuesday. It didn't fucking matter. It didn't have to be a fucking eclipse. But we've talked about that plenty. So.

Mike (33:54.087)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:57.767)
Yeah, right.

Mike (34:08.327)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (34:13.902)
But yeah, if I would have been able to see total fucking darkness, I would have been like, like you said, that fucking moon blocking that fucking sun. Because I'm seeing the pictures and I'm like, shit, it looks like it got all fucking dark, which clearly it did. So that's why I wanted to talk about that.

Mike (34:22.983)
Ah, yep.

Mike (34:30.375)
Yeah, it did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was pretty damn amazing. Um, glad I'm, I was sober and able to, uh, experience it. It was, it was pretty cool.

Bill (34:44.27)
Right. Yeah. And same thing we talked about, you know, this, uh, this nature shit, you know, and, um, and like, like I said, to begin with, you know, the, I, I am not, I, well, first of all, I'm not a hiking person. I'd never thought I'd be, I mean, I guess I am now, right. I've been, I've been on trails enough, you know, where I guess, I guess I'm a hiker now, but I guess I am that guy, but, um, I don't, I'm not going to buy like a special outfit. I bought shoes just so I don't fucking kill myself.

Mike (35:00.455)
I guess so. Right.

Mike (35:06.503)
Hehehehehe

Bill (35:13.198)
You know, I, so I bought, you know, shoes with certain, they're comfortable so I don't twist an ankle and that sort of thing and whatever. But I mean, I'm not going to, no, it's, I am way too, even when I used to golf, I, the, the only thing I ever bought is, you know, some places you couldn't wear shorts. So I had, you know, khakis that I could wear. Um, and then the only other thing was you had to have a collar shirt. So it's a polo shirt, you know, that I would wear any other place.

Mike (35:14.823)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (35:19.623)
That's how it starts, man.

Bill (35:39.406)
Never did any fucking golf gear or anything like that. I wasn't that guy. You know, I'm not going to do that hiking either. Um, but you know, it's, it's just a matter of going out there and it's so fucking peaceful. That's number one. And then just, I, I don't know what I'm going to see, but it's all fucking cool, you know? And I just, I just want to go and fucking look at things and it amazes me. Which who, who the fuck are we now? Right. I'm not complaining.

Mike (36:08.231)
I don't know, man. Right. Well, you know, didn't, didn't. Right.

Bill (36:09.166)
not complaining at all, but it just, I don't know.

Mike (36:14.503)
Yeah, didn't expect yourself to be sober either. So, you know, there you go. Now you're a hiker and to get your stick and you're, uh, you're going to get some leader hosing.

Bill (36:19.374)
Yeah

Bill (36:25.102)
See again, I'm not going to do any of that. The only thing I bought shoes and I bought wool socks, you know, they're either like the summer ones or shorter ones or I got regular ones because it just, I mean, I needed comfortable, my feet get, again, it goes into a bunch of different things. I've had problems with feet and my knees when I was a kid, the whole bit. But so I wanted comfortable shoes and comfortable socks. So that's the only thing I'm not buying fucking leaderhosen. I don't need a stick.

I don't need a walking stick or anything like that, but it's the nature ship, you know? So anyhow, I enjoy nature. That's the bottom line. But all right, so we done talking about eclipsing and hiking and leader hosting. Apparently.

Mike (37:01.191)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (37:10.567)
I suppose.

Bill (37:12.974)
All right. So, um, one real quick thing, and I guess we're probably a few minutes away from taking a break, but so I was listening to a podcast. Um, I don't know when probably on the drive down here or whatever it was. And, uh, one of the, this chick that they, um, there was being, uh, there's telling her story. I was going to say interview, but telling her story, she said that she was always looking while she was drinking, she was always looking for the third door. And I've, I've never heard that before. That's why I wrote it down, you know, so.

One door sobriety, one door is drinking and she's looking for the third door, kind of like the, you know, I'm guessing, you know, it's kind of like controlling your drinking, but I've never heard anyone put it that way. And have you ever heard that before? The third door.

Mike (37:47.335)
Hmm.

Mike (37:57.607)
No, I've never heard of the third location. That's when things go really bad, but um, No, but I like that. That's that's that's interesting. Hey, yeah, right. I don't want to be sober I don't want to be this fucking mess drunk miserable son of a bitch I want that third door, but yeah, unfortunately that third door does not exist Monty

Bill (38:00.398)
Hahaha!

Hehehehe

Bill (38:09.966)
Heheheheh

Bill (38:18.51)
Right. It just it again all the different because I've listened now I could I don't know hours and fucking I don't know what seems like hundreds of different podcast episodes now over the last couple years and I just I she said that I'm like that's fucking cool. So I'm like always looking for the third door because I get it. I as soon as she said it I knew exactly what she was talking about. I just never I had never heard anyone you know put it in though in those words before but.

You know, same thing as anything else. I mean, I suppose that's why we keep going to meetings. We keep listening to stories. Every once in a while, we hear some shit, right?

Mike (38:55.911)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (39:00.647)
Absolutely. More will be revealed. Not more might be revealed or maybe something else will happen. More will be revealed.

Bill (39:04.654)
Hehehehe

Bill (39:09.774)
Right and you know, it's really fucking weird and it just it didn't I mean, I know obviously it's getting close to our anniversaries but For the for work and stuff like that when we make phone calls, we're usually kicking them ahead for a week You know, it's this rotation, you know, so so yesterday it's like every time I'm kicking a call forward I'm like April 18th. Ooh April 18th. Ooh

Mike (39:31.399)
Yeah

Bill (39:34.03)
And I mean, I'm making anywhere between, you know, I mean, 75 to 100 calls a day. So yeah, that was me yesterday. Every fucking time I'm looking at it, I'm just seeing, seeing this fucking date for everyone out there. That's my anniversary date, by the way. So yeah, it was a week from it's a week, week from yesterday. But yesterday, April 11th, which I never forget, but I always set a reminder is Kimmy and Brian's when they first got together, not married, but so they've been together and I keep forgetting, I think.

Mike (39:42.695)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (39:47.719)
Right.

Bill (40:02.574)
12 years, because I think they're, you know, we're coming up on 14 and they're, I think, two years behind us. They've been friends for fucking ever. Yeah, but, so yeah, I don't know. It's getting close to the point, I don't know. I said it before. I think we said it before. We enjoy anniversaries, especially our own. It kind of selfish itself centered still, right?

Mike (40:07.463)
Yeah, seems about right. Right.

Mike (40:22.279)
Yes, we do.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, yeah, but you know, it's a fucking accomplishment, man. You know, I'm not not false pride. I am proud, though. They have done the fucking work and made it this far. Yes, I am proud of that.

Bill (40:42.894)
Well, and that's why too, and I know we've talked about it on here, but when people say that time doesn't matter, and I don't understand why people count time, I mean, seriously, it's so hard for me not to say, you know what, fuck you. I mean, seriously, fuck you. Because, I mean, and I try to give everyone credit too. You've done the work, be proud of your time, whether it's three days or 30 days or 30 fucking years. Everyone, you can't.

Mike (40:56.135)
Right. Yup.

Mike (41:07.111)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (41:12.366)
You can't get the day back. You fuck up one day to the point where you do the big fuck up. Then, yeah, you and I are of the belief that you start over. All those days again, you gotta start the clock over again. So fuck that. Time matters, quality of time. Yes, you and I believe in that, quality of time. But the days matter. So the days don't matter, fuck off. Fuck, fuck off.

Mike (41:19.079)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (41:24.679)
Absolutely.

Yes. Mm -hmm.

Mike (41:35.815)
Hehehehehe

Bill (41:36.846)
But I think on that note, why don't we take a break? What do you say? I think we've stretched this long enough and we could take a break, right?

Mike (41:43.847)
Absolutely. Well, we're going to take a little bit of time here and have a word from our sponsor and we'll be right back.
Bill (00:01.582)
All right, everyone. Welcome back. And is that I was just thinking about is that like the band is are we like the band coming back from a break, you know, from the the drummers out there doing the drum solo and we did the wardrobe change and maybe got blown backstage or something? I mean.

Mike (00:15.599)
Right. You know, did a few lines of Coke and, you know, chugged down half a bottle of Jack. And now we're back to, uh, rock you off.

Bill (00:18.958)
We're going to rock you off. Yay. I don't know. Yeah, just I'm like, get back in here. And I'm like, Oh, I kind of feel like halfway refreshed for a minute. I walked outside, walked outside purse, walked outside for a second, got a little refill of coffee. And then Mike's coming back in and his cameras on for a minute. And I'm like, Oh, thrilled.

Mike (00:27.567)
Right.

Mike (00:36.559)
I'm glad somebody does.

Mike (00:46.543)
Yeah!

Bill (00:48.27)
He just said the literally the most disinterested look on his face as he was kind of logging himself back in because we don't we're well I know we're different in a lot of fucking ways than other podcasts and I'm you know what and I'm happy about that I don't want to be like I I have a lot of respect for because we have friends that do podcasts and stuff like that I love what a lot of these people do and I have respect for him, but I have no desire to and I don't Mike doesn't either we have no desire to be like any other podcast, but I

Mike (01:16.751)
Mm -mm.

Bill (01:17.038)
everyone else keeps their video on. We don't because we were told that it can draw down on the bandwidth, which obviously with technology issues that we have would make it worse. But we've had one or two guests who are like, this is kind of weird. I'm used to being able to see people like, yeah, we don't do that. We don't do that. We just don't do that. Like, oh, okay.

Mike (01:26.639)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (01:33.007)
Nope. It's like real radio.

No. Mm -mm.

Bill (01:41.902)
And then for us being on somebody else's podcast when we're on video, it does it. I feel like I'm in school just kind of sitting there. It's like, you know, I'm like, I got to sit straight. My nose itches. I don't want to think something. I'm picking my nose. Then I'm like, God, do I have to pick my nose? Gosh, could I do I let me let me think about that for a minute. Right.

Mike (01:47.663)
I'm sorry.

Mike (01:56.111)
So you're saying you overthink things.

Is it possible? Right, let me overthink that for a minute.

Bill (02:10.286)
Let me overthink this for a minute. Okay, enough of this shit. So you want to hear about my couple of things with my trip so far? Well, I kind of want to tell you. May I tell you a couple of things about my trip? I think you'll... Okay, thank you. You know what? The fact your honesty was... I appreciate that. It kind of took the wind out of my sail there for a minute, but you're just like... See, that's normally what you say.

Mike (02:16.495)
No.

Mike (02:22.191)
Oh yes, you may.

Mike (02:33.551)
Right. It's not about me, man. Do what you got to do. I'm here for you, man.

Bill (02:38.862)
That's normally what you say versus just, no, I don't want to hear about that. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we get time to fill. So this is kind of the point of a podcast, so fuck you. You'll understand when you have more time that we need to talk about these things. I was fucking teed up. I couldn't help myself. Okay, anyhow, enough of that shit.

Mike (02:42.191)
Nope. Right. But I know I will anyway, so yeah.

Mike (02:52.399)
Alright.

Mike (02:56.111)
Ah, there it is.

Mike (03:02.575)
Hehehehehe

Bill (03:05.262)
So, um, I left it. I like seven in the morning and I got up, you know, at godly early because I still wanted to do my stuff. Had to pack up my stuff, whatever. But I figured, you know, I want to get down here and I did. I got down here a little bit before three, um, 2 30 or something like that. I think when I texted all you guys and, um, you know, I had time. So I went to Aldi because I had to go shopping anyhow. So, um, a couple of days before I came down here, cause I knew they had a grill and I'm like, okay, if it's nice out, even if it isn't, I'm going to grill every night that I don't have to, there's no dishwasher here.

Mike (03:12.559)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (03:20.431)
Right.

Bill (03:35.086)
So, like, I don't want to wash that George Forman every night if I don't have to, but, so I sent the lady a message, the host here, just said, hey, he probably does with his removable plates. Wash me, come on, you know you want to. Get this glaze off of me, wash me. It's kind of baked on too.

Mike (03:43.951)
Maybe George wants you to wash him.

Mike (03:49.263)
Wash me.

Mike (04:02.671)
Well, of course.

Bill (04:04.046)
Well, of course it is. So, um, so I messaged her and, uh, you know, I knew it was propane grill and all that stuff. And I said, so, cause I didn't want to have to buy propane. Just one of those. So I just wanted to make sure, you know, it's okay to use the grill. If there's, you know, if there runs out of propane, where would I buy more type of thing? Hope that she's going to say there's plenty. Don't worry. There's an extra one here. And she's like, I'm glad you messaged me because she said as of the end of March, um, there's an ordinance that was passed in this County, which is normal in a lot of places now.

Mike (04:20.783)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (04:33.102)
No propane grills, no propane anything in a condo apartment, anything like that. Multi -family buildings, you can't have propane grills or anything like that anymore. So she's like, we need to take that out of there, but she said, we're buying an electric grill. We'll have it replaced or should have it replaced by the time you check in. Cool. So I get here, I walk in, I walk in, I set down my bag, I open up the door, I immediately beeline towards the balcony or the patio.

And I look and I'm like, ah, fuck it, it's still here. So I messaged her, I'm like, hey, you mentioned this, am I still allowed to use this or no? She's like, don't worry about it. Somebody will, my family is in town, I'm out of town. But if you be around tomorrow, even if you're not, you're on the first floor, we have a grill, they're just gonna switch it out. Cool, not a problem, I cooked. Normally, you know, with whatever I had, my George Foreman on Saturday and then they had it replaced on Sundays, perfect, it works perfectly fine. So that's cool. So I'm gonna...

Mike (05:28.943)
Well, not if you're Hank Hill, it's not.

Bill (05:30.958)
I know, I know, but...

Mike (05:35.855)
A man wept in Texas today.

Bill (05:38.126)
Right? But hey, it is what it is. I want to cook food outside on a grill -ish thing and this is what I'm allowed to use. So it works. So, um, Saturday I'm, uh, get all my shit in here. Took me, you know, kind of laying out, you know how much shit I have with now. So bring all my shit in here. And I'm, uh, they had a Keurig and I brought along all this extra K cups and whatever. So I went to make a cup of coffee and it was one of the single ones where you just put like a, you know, certain number of ounces of water. It doesn't have a reservoir, make the cup gone. I've used them before. It's not hard.

Mike (05:45.327)
Alright.

Bill (06:08.27)
So I do that, I brew it and it does this little, I mean like, I don't know, what four ounces out of what should have been, you know, 12, you know, or 10. So I'm like, well, that's kind of weird. I'm like, yeah, I wonder if some of it does go to the reservoir. So I'll put some more water in there, a little bit more water and try to brew it again. And it just comes right out the bottom. I mean, not even through the K -cup. And I'm like, so I'm wondering if the K -cup is plugged up. So I put another clean, you know, fresh K -cup in there, do it. Fucking water spits out at the bottom. I'm like, are you motherfucking...

kidding me. Because you know, I, I drink coffee. I think everyone knows that. And I'm like, I can have do I gotta buy a fucking coffee pot now. But I'm like, it's okay. Not a big deal. So I'm so I messaged her I said, just so you know, I said, this is what happened. I cleaned it all up. I put it under the counter under where it was. But I said, just so you're aware, you know, I just want to message you right away. I don't care. I'm not complaining. But just so you know, I didn't break it. It did this.

Mike (06:37.775)
Mmm.

Mike (06:42.863)
Hehehehehe

Mmm. I need my dope, man.

Bill (07:06.478)
She's like, you know, just did you do this and do that? I said, I did, you know, one of those almost elementary things. Are you stupid or did you do the right thing? But she was, she was very kind. And I said, great question. But I said, yes, I've used this model before, plus a few others. Um, so yeah, I get it. So then I'm like, don't worry about it. By the time she messaged me back, I'd already went to Walmart. I got a mini coffee pot, not a Keurig, cause I'm like, I don't want to spend 70 bucks on a coffee pot. I don't need to.

Mike (07:12.655)
Right. You some kind of a moron.

Mike (07:34.383)
Right, yeah.

Bill (07:35.918)
I bought a mini coffee pot, regular coffee pot, one of the four or five cup ones for $10. And you know what? It honestly is probably better because I do consume a little bit of coffee throughout the day. And I brought a ton of K cups that now the next place I'm in, actually, well, yeah, your place, the next place after that, the next place after that, all of them regular coffee pots. I don't know when the next time I'm going to use Keurigs, but I have plenty.

Mike (07:40.911)
Nice.

Mike (07:51.215)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (08:05.07)
You know, so, so that's all taken care of. So I'm like, my coffee is in good shape. So then on like Tuesday or whatever, and I don't know if you saw the pictures, but the way this place is set up the, the door from what is considered to be the outside, like the hallway area, I say quote unquote, you know, it's a condo, but they're set up like old, like motels. So when you open the door, you walk outside and then, you know, the patio obviously faces the lake. So.

Mike (08:20.847)
Mm.

Sure. Yeah.

Bill (08:30.126)
You walk into the bedroom, there's the bedroom, then there's hallway, bathroom on the right, you walk in and then living room. It's small, you know, ish, but from the living room, you know, you can see all the way through to the door if you're by the couch area. So I set my stuff up over here, the corner by the patio, blah, blah, blah. So I think it was Tuesday and then 9 .30, 10 o 'clock in the morning, I don't know. And I hear some rustling around upstairs on the counter, probably building something up there, just my luck, you know, I'm going to make fucking noise while I'm working, you know.

Mike (08:35.951)
Sure. Yeah.

Bill (08:58.734)
But then, you know, I'm on the phone and I'm just starting to leave a message, okay? And someone's beating on my door. And it's like, I mean, not just knocking, I mean, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I'm like, oh yeah, like that, you know? And I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm sitting here trying to leave this. But I'm sitting there, I'm like, in my head, I'm trying to focus on my message, because a message is maybe 10 or 15 seconds, right? You know, and.

Mike (09:09.935)
Right. Yeah. Sheriff's department. Right. I know that knock.

Mike (09:24.655)
Right.

Bill (09:26.414)
I got, I got to focus on this. This is a professional message I'm trying to leave. I'll figure out this fucking knob when I'm done and yell at this person, what the fuck you punting on my door for? So I'm leaving a message. I'm almost done in a beat on a door a couple of times, maybe 10 seconds worth of this stuff. Not rocks, not complete solid, but within that timeframe. Then I start hearing. So there's a keypad, there's an electronic door, the keypad, you know, I start hearing the thing beep and then hear somebody's opening the fucking door.

Mike (09:34.991)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (09:44.687)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (09:55.503)
Mmm.

Bill (09:56.334)
And I'm like, what the fuck? So I just finished the message. I paused. I stand up and this guy pokes him. He's like, pest control. Is anyone home? I'm like, I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm with the pest control. I said, dude, I'm, I'm working. And he's like, but I'm just doing my job. I'm with pest control. I said, I understand that. But I said, you're sitting there beating on my door. And he said, and I said, then you just walk in. He's like, well, I knocked. I said for like 10 seconds, you know,

Mike (09:58.319)
Alright.

Mike (10:03.407)
Hehehehehe

Uh -huh.

Bill (10:25.166)
I said, I was on the phone. I'm leaving a message. I'm working. And he's like, well, are you the owner or are you just a renter? I said, I'm an Airbnb guest. He's like, well, the owner should have told you. I'm like, that's irrelevant. I'm like, what are you doing? I'm fucking pissed, you know? And he's like, well, they should have told you, but I'll tell you what, we'll skip you. But I'm like, yes, you will. So it just fucking goes on. I'm like, you fucking moron.

Mike (10:48.815)
Hehehehehe

Bill (10:52.654)
I'm like, I didn't say that part to him, but surprisingly through that, I don't think I swore at him. I might've said, what the fuck are you doing? But I don't think I, I don't even think I swore at him. But there's one thing when somebody's pounding on your door and you're like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to have a talk into this motherfucker, right? Whoever this is, but never in your wildest dreams, you think somebody's going to pound on your door and then walk in, right? I mean, and think about it, even if, cause it wasn't like,

Mike (10:53.071)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mike (10:58.575)
Mmm.

Mike (11:16.751)
Right.

Bill (11:21.262)
super early but not super late. It doesn't even matter. Even if somebody would have been sleeping in that bedroom, in 10 seconds there's no fucking way I would have been able to like come to and answer the door before this motherfucker was walking in, you know? I'm like, I'm like Jesus fucking Christ, you know? So I was just, I was so fucking irritated, but I didn't, I didn't message the host or anything like that. I figure if they, if he tells them and they deal with it, I'm not going to complain.

Mike (11:28.079)
Alright.

Mike (11:33.839)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (11:37.647)
Great. Yeah.

Bill (11:50.67)
I like this place, it's a beautiful place. They've been wonderful. I mean, whatever. So they forgot about some fucking exterminator, you know, but I don't know. It just... Well, and I get it. I mean, it could have been, you know, with anything, it's by a fucking lake. I mean, I know. And as soon as I got left and I was thinking about like, oh, that's right. When I was at the place in September, but I was there like, I think I was there Thursday through...

Mike (11:50.863)
Uh huh.

Mike (11:57.583)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So now you're overrun with rodents and it's fine.

Bill (12:20.014)
Monday or Wednesday through whatever it was. But I think they said it was like it was a Tuesday. Now I think about it. I'm like, God, they when the exterminator comes around, I'm like, because they but they had a I don't know, actually a sheet explaining, you know, you need to let the exterminator come in if it's here. It's at this time, blah, blah, blah. But there was no notes or anything about this here, you know, so fucking no. So it's not like you you fucking more. I just.

I'm just thinking, you know, again, the guy was doing his job and I'm sure he was just as surprised as I was, you know, to see somebody standing there. But I'm like, oh, you, he, I was so fucking irritated. So fucking irritated. But, um, you know what? I, I got over it, you know, but, um, it's, but you know, immediately with, with anything that happens, I, you know, I know you think the same thing when something weird happens in your life, you're like, God, this would be a great topic.

Mike (12:53.231)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (13:03.503)
Well, that's good. Clearly.

Mike (13:15.535)
That is right.

Bill (13:16.43)
It's a great topic for the podcast, you know? So, at least I got that much out of it, but it was good, it was good. So, okay. Oh yeah, Craig Ferguson's book, okay? I was listening to more of that as I was coming down here. So, he was telling a story about a guy that had a terminal illness and was giving a lead, okay? Basically getting the people drawn into a story, as Craig put it, to the point where they forgot that he was terminally ill.

Mike (13:21.167)
Alright.

Mike (13:29.295)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (13:46.414)
Okay. So as the guy's telling the story, you know, it's like when he first walks up there, you know, I mean, I think he gave it a little bit, a bit of background or people knew him, whatever it was. But I mean, this dude was like, he was like close to death type of thing, like weeks or months. I mean, you know, that sort of thing. So he said, then the, then the guy talked about the fact that he had no problem or had no problems, except of course, the fact that he was terminally ill. And then, and then the guy, the guy that was, was given the lead said,

Mike (14:10.415)
Mm, right, yeah.

Bill (14:16.11)
was telling everyone else in the group, he said, be grateful for your problems. Okay. So, and I thought, I'm like, fuck man, I got to write that shit down because that's, that's some fucking deep stuff. So my friend, Mike, how do you feel about that statement?

Mike (14:20.911)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (14:25.359)
Hehehehehe

Mike (14:31.375)
Hmm being grateful about your problems. Um Yeah, I understand it because if you have a problem that means you have responsibility and if you have Responsibility that means you have freedom. Haha. Take that. Um Right grateful for your because it means you're engaged it means you're a part of fucking life because life part of life is problems

Um, it means, you know, you're doing your, your, again, engaged. That's the best way I could put it. Um, yeah, I'm grateful for my problems. I have problems. Um, I also have solutions to those problems. I'm grateful for that too. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah, I like that. Be grateful for your problems. Yeah.

Bill (15:15.822)
Right.

Bill (15:23.182)
Yeah, and I mean, even looking at it the other way, I mean, that the, cause this guy, this guy's problem is, you know, I mean, he's, he's about fucking dead, you know? And, um, and that's the thing too, that, uh, that the problems that we have, um, you know, in, it reminded me of when people talk about, um, you know, Oh, getting old sucks and this and that, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, really, when you think about it, it doesn't, you know, I mean, we all have, um, I've got limitations. I've talked about it even on here, you know, that recognizing my physical limitations.

Mike (15:30.319)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (15:42.415)
Mmm.

Mike (15:49.711)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (15:52.302)
But I recognize them and I understand them and there's things I don't do and won't do anymore because I don't want to get fucking hurt. You know? Yeah. Hi, Kathy. And it's not, well, yeah. Okay. Hi, Kathy. Hi. But on top of that too is that, you know, we have the good fortune, you know, of getting old, you know, because we could have been, both of us could have been and easily should have been dead.

Mike (15:59.343)
Uh huh. Hi Cathy.

Mike (16:14.031)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:20.078)
Maybe not 14 years ago, but maybe 13 years ago, you know, maybe I would have made it another year. Maybe you would have maybe six months, three months, you know. So, and you know what? I just thought about this. Um, I, I'm in a beautiful place right now. I now have the freedom to, to move around and work where I want and that sort of thing. So should I be grateful that this motherfucker knocked on my door? I'm grateful that I'm here, you know, honey.

Mike (16:20.271)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Right? Yeah.

Mike (16:43.375)
Yeah, yes you should, right?

Bill (16:48.782)
So if I was sitting in Indiana, no motherfucker's gonna be, or even in Wisconsin years ago, no motherfucker's gonna be knocking on my door going, exterminator. Popping his head into my doorway, you know? So okay, yeah, look at that. I didn't even plan that this would be the next thing, and I'd have to be grateful for that fucking Yahoo, but okay, fine, I'm grateful for it. But.

Mike (16:55.503)
Mm -hmm.

Right. Yeah. Keeping the place clean. Hmm.

Mike (17:14.767)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (17:16.654)
But yeah, just when he said that, I was thinking about it just again, two different ways. The fact of the, once again, terminally ill and the guy's got no problems except for, well, I'm dying. And the fact that we have the, I don't know, we have the ability to, we have problems because we're living. And that's a...

Mike (17:27.119)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (17:35.343)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. Exactly. You know, also like, um, you know, I remember, um, seven years ago when I turned 50, right? People were like, Oh, you freaked out or whatever. I was a fucking old man. I wasn't supposed to make it this far. I've got no problem with turning 50, just like in three years, I'm not going to have a problem turning 60. I'm going to be like, yeah, fuck man. You know, again, I wasn't supposed to be here.

Bill (17:50.19)
Right, right.

Bill (17:57.486)
Hahaha.

Mike (18:02.383)
So no, I have no problems with getting older. Absolutely not.

Bill (18:07.374)
Right. Yeah, the last birthday that I had an issue with was when I turned 30. And it didn't click with me until, I don't know, a month or so afterwards. I was kind of in a funky mood. And the point behind that was I had these life goals in my head about figuring, I mean, I got married young, figured married, I have a couple of kids, we have a house by this time and this and that.

Mike (18:28.495)
Right?

Bill (18:34.19)
And at 30, I mean, I had one child, but I was divorced, living in a fucking apartment. I can't buy a house right now, all these different things. So it was just that I had set up these, and they weren't even unrealistic expectations, but they were expectations in my head. And I put too much weight on them at that timeframe, which at this point, I mean, granted, what I'm doing now was a goal, but I...

Mike (18:38.031)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:49.903)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:00.782)
I had the patience. I didn't have the patience all the time because I just wanted to do it. But I had the patience to wait for it and I'm glad. I'm glad I waited for it because I let, I trusted the process. I let things just happen. I didn't force things. I mean, yeah, I'm actually financing some shit right now to pay for all the things I'm doing, but I've got a job right now that...

Mike (19:16.239)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:27.918)
You know, I know that I can, it's not a problem. The shit that I booked so far, and by the way, I'm booked through the end of May already. I just booked that trip on the way out of Texas. So I'm staying Branson for a week that time. But so same thing, you know, I've got some things financed. I paid for some, but not all of it, you know, but I had the, again, I had the patience, you know, so, but other than that, I mean,

Mike (19:39.279)
Alright.

Mike (19:53.199)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:56.046)
40, I was still drinking. I mean, 40 was so much fucking fun. That was when all the cousins got together and Kathy and Mark said, I mean, we literally, we had a great time. It's just a wonderful time. Granted, we were drunk from, I mean, the entire weekend, but it was so much fun. It's back to one of those ties, a classic example of one of these drinking events that, man, I'll never forget that. And I'll never look back at that with.

Mike (20:06.447)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:10.319)
Sure.

Bill (20:24.558)
You know with any type of regret or disgust or anything because it was a fucking wonderful weekend, you know with family, you know But yeah, other than that fuck I don't I don't give a fuck about age anymore, you know, I don't I just don't you know And when do we get all our discounts art wasn't supposed to be a 55 or is it now 60 year? Oh

Mike (20:27.919)
Mm -hmm.

Right. Yeah. Right.

Mike (20:37.871)
Mm -mm. Right.

Mike (20:44.367)
Oh, I mean, I think we could start getting them now. Yeah, you know, I don't want them, but I think I could probably get them if I wanted to. I just, I don't care.

Bill (20:51.438)
Right? There was.

Hahaha.

Bill (21:00.43)
Fuck man, if somebody was gonna give me a discount because I'm 55, I'll take the fucking discount. I'd take it in a heartbeat. But there was some place I was looking, I forget where I was looking. Again, Airbnb stuff, looking around this nice little community and then I'm reading, I don't know, I check out a few things and I read the description and it says blah, blah, blah. It's like, oh yeah, this is a senior community. I'm like, oh, maybe that's why it's so nice. And then you know what it says? It says at least one of the residents.

Mike (21:05.551)
Alright.

Mike (21:18.639)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (21:24.431)
Mmm.

Bill (21:29.518)
has to be at least 55 years old. And I'm like, oh, fuck. I'm like, I actually qualify. It's relatively inexpensive. It's nice. I'm looking at it, I'm like, fuck me. I'm like, right. Yeah, but I'm like, okay. So, yeah, I'm sure it'd be quiet, you know, in a place like that. All right.

Mike (21:33.263)
Ooooo

Hehehehehe

Mike (21:43.119)
Great, exactly. Yeah, we are grandfathers.

Mike (21:50.991)
Right?

You know, he's gotta deal with all the weed smoke.

Bill (21:56.782)
Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, I got a nice little I walked out of the patio the other night. And literally, I could have sworn that there would have been there was somebody that was had had been standing on this patio smoking weed. That's how thick it was. So it must have just been the way whoever was smoking just came in and just stuck right in there. I'm like because I slid the door open. I'm like, holy fuck. Just like cutting through it to try to walk out the door. But.

Mike (22:01.871)
Hehehehehe

Mike (22:15.759)
Right.

Mike (22:20.879)
Hehehehehe

Bill (22:24.27)
Yeah, it was just, maybe two nights in a row I smelled it, but anyhow. So I'm grateful for the problems. Obviously we understand that point, right? Okay.

Mike (22:28.527)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (22:33.647)
We do. Yes, I am grateful for my problems as much as I'm grateful for the solutions.

Bill (22:39.63)
Right. Let me just, I'm just going to pick a random one here. All right. So, keep it simple. Help me see pain, not as a personal defect, but as a part of life. Did you ever view pain, you, Mike, did you ever view pain as a personal defect, whether it was before or after you got sober?

Mike (23:00.367)
Ass.

Mike (23:07.247)
Uh, no. Right. You know, no, I mean, um, I, you know, the only thing I ever used pain for, um, inappropriately, uh, was as an excuse to get loaded, you know, to be a victim. Um, yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Um, right. I mean, I know some people maybe would look at having pain.

Bill (23:09.326)
All right, next topic. We run.

Mike (23:34.351)
Accepting pain as a weakness, but again, I like the reading said man. That's part of life. Um, and as as we're grateful for our problems, I'm grateful for the pain too, you know, because again, um, it's part of life. That means I'm feeling something. That means I'm doing something I'm a part of and that is part of life. So now I yeah, uh -uh other than right again.

but I used to inappropriately as an excuse to be a victim and to, you know, yeah. Oh, I gotta get loaded, man. I hurt emotionally. Yep.

Bill (24:09.166)
Right. Well, and that's, you know, honestly, that's the way I thought about that was like the I didn't. And the same thing either sometimes when I write these things down, it's like either, you know, it's a it's a thinking moment or it's something where I'm like, I don't get how that would be. And but yeah, the victim part of it, I get that part, you know, is that if if somebody is in pain using that as as an excuse, right, you know, to get loaded or to take it out on other people, you don't understand how I feel, you know.

Mike (24:27.791)
Mm -mm.

Mike (24:38.159)
Exactly. Yeah.

Bill (24:39.086)
Yeah, blah, blah, blah, I'm gonna fucking lash out at somebody because I'm in pain. No, I don't want to do that. I'm in pain. I want somebody to help me a little bit to talk through something if nothing else. Maybe not, you know, not fix it, you know, but I don't know.

Mike (24:43.471)
Right. No.

Mike (24:49.551)
Sure. Right.

Mm -hmm, then maybe just sit there and fucking feel it cuz um, you know, it's Because um, you know quite possibly well, let's see look for my part in it. Why do I have this pain? What did I do that is causing me this pain and if I you know I'm gonna have some part of it one way or another I've you know that if this program's taught me anything it's it's I have a part in everything I

Bill (24:56.878)
Heheheheh

Bill (25:07.054)
Right, right.

Mike (25:22.543)
The joy and the pain and the sadness and the happiness and whatever I have a part in all of it. And so if I'm hurting for some reason, why, you know, and then, uh, so that way I can identify that and stop fucking doing it. Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Well, then don't do that.

Bill (25:43.534)
any 1950s or 1960s variety show. Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Yeah, don't do that then. But yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a good point though, is that, I mean, that's all part of it, you know, it's just that, I don't know, everything that you were talking about too, you know, being part of life and just everyone being able to deal with it and not, I mean, the main thing is, you know, I go back to what you said too, just not playing that victim as.

Mike (25:49.967)
Yes. Yes. Well, then don't do that. Right.

Bill (26:12.366)
I don't know yet to being a part of and life is, I was gonna say life sucks sometimes and I don't mean that in a negative way, but there's parts of life that suck every once in a while. It's just, I mean, if either one of us, I don't know, at least for me, if I went through life thinking that, man, this better not ever suck, I'm gonna be really disappointed. How many, what percentage of the time? A lot, right?

Mike (26:12.495)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (26:18.543)
Hmm. No. Yes, they do.

Mike (26:30.479)
Uh huh. Exactly.

Mike (26:36.111)
Yeah, that's just it. Yeah, right. Let's just try to make it so we lower that percentage. That's kind of the whole point of this thing. Right. Lower that percentage of the suckiness. You know, life sucks better sober. I read that on a t -shirt somewhere.

Bill (26:46.638)
Yeah

Bill (26:50.83)
Or again, I mean, find the, find the gratefulness to it. You know, it's usually it's a learning thing too. If you, if you are hurt by somebody or something, there is something to learn from that. I would say that 100 % of the time you can learn, you know, from, let's say if you're, I don't know, if you're in Paris or something like that, you walk down a waterfall, you fall and break your wrist and you're in pain. You probably learn from that, right?

Mike (26:56.111)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Mike (27:16.943)
Right.

Bill (27:20.142)
Hello, Kathy. No, but I mean, anything like that, I mean, we can learn from these things. It's a learning experience. It doesn't have to be a negative. Find the positive part of it, right?

Mike (27:21.135)
I would think so, hi.

Mike (27:34.543)
Mm -hmm. Right. Exactly. Find out how not to fucking walk that way.

Bill (27:36.462)
Yeah. Yeah, didn't we talk about the nut punch? Was that last week or the week after? Yeah.

Mike (27:42.127)
Right. Exactly. You know, well, Hey, I got another one. If I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the talcum powder. Hey, Oh.

Bill (27:47.63)
That's another one of Mike and I say that to each other all the time. Hey, walk this way. Walk this way. Again. Right. Right. Exactly. All right. So this one is just happens to be right above. And this was from A Day at a Time. The reading was talking about relapse. There was a, this was recently, I think when.

Mike (27:57.583)
Walk that way. I wouldn't need the talco powder. What the hell? Right.

Bill (28:15.374)
Was it recently that was going through all the relapse talk, I think, and, oh, you don't read a day at a time, nevermind.

Mike (28:19.759)
I haven't done that one.

Bill (28:21.582)
Okay, so crisis could have been months ago, then I don't know. But see, the reading was talking about relapse and the fact that the thought precedes the action, which we've talked about. The reason I wrote it down is, you know, kind of might be worth the discussion. Once again, there could be people out there that don't really understand what that means, you know, and what can we do or what do we do to prevent relapse? So the first part of it is,

Mike (28:25.295)
Alright.

Mike (28:31.887)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:49.166)
The act of relapse, physically taking a drink or using a drug, is there, it's a fact. We've seen, we've heard, we've experienced, you know, through other people, if nothing else, that the thought precedes the action. So let's start there. What does that mean?

Mike (29:05.551)
means you have let your disease convince you that you can handle it. Basically. Yes, the thought, because the thought is, yeah, it's, we start lying to ourselves and we start believing those lies that somehow we can handle it. I mean, you know, we've talked about plenty of times. Do we have the thoughts? Of course we do. Um, I have the thoughts, you know, not all the time, but I have them. And, um, but I, I truly.

Bill (29:07.662)
Heh heh.

Mike (29:35.183)
I look at them honestly today when I have those thoughts and, and I go, okay, man, you take that drink. Then what, you know, playing that tape through, man. Um, I had, and it always, I thankfully have practiced that enough now that I get there very quickly. Now that's not going to do anything. You know? Um, I, I don't, I, I.

Bill (29:43.118)
Right?

Mike (30:02.927)
Seriously do not want to drink or use a drug today. Um, I have the thoughts where you know, what wouldn't it, you know, just the thought I don't I don't even I can't even heart I can't explain How the thought works anymore, which is kind of nice. Um You know the obsession has been lifted and um, yeah, it's like no

Bill (30:19.342)
Yeah.

Mike (30:29.135)
No, I mean, I know where it's gonna take me and I don't wanna be there. I'm happy today the way I am. I have the thought, yes, a drink would be nice. Yes, I have the thought. I'd still love to smoke a joint. Don't get me wrong. I fucking loved pot, man. And I love the feeling and there's really, I know there's no repercussions, but I also know.

Bill (30:44.462)
Hehehehe

Mike (30:56.559)
that I'm a full blown alcoholic and a full blown junkie and I can't just smoke a joint. It's not gonna be enough. I'm gonna get there and I'm gonna go, okay, this is great. Now what? Now I want fucking more. Because that's the way I am. So, no, it's not worth it, man. It's just anything. Anything I put into myself that's gonna change my mood or my mind or my emotions or whatever.

Bill (31:03.374)
Right.

Mike (31:26.479)
Externally like that is not going to be good for me because it's going to lead me to other things and other things are not good for me either. Yes, they feel great in the moment. I know that I've proven that to myself over and over and over again. They feel fucking wonderful in the moment, but I am an addict and an alcoholic and it's never enough. You know, and the cool thing is sitting here right now sober is enough.

It really is. Yeah. It's just enough. I've, I've cleaned all the garbage out and this right now in this moment is enough and it's fucking cool, man. And there's no, there's no substance that's going to make it better. You know, I mean, it will for a minute. I know that it will. It's going to make it much better. It's fantastic, but then it's not. It's I need more. And now.

This is enough today and that's fucking cool. Yeah. Yup.

Bill (32:30.734)
Yeah, and that's, I was thinking about, actually you were just talking about that the other day again with the people, you know, sitting by the pool and all that stuff. And I mean, I, I don't know, sitting around a pool is fine. You know, I, but, but sitting around a pool and having drinks years ago or, or fuck, I mean, Kathy and Mark had a boat. We used to go out on the boat and we docked towards this thing or whatever. And I mean, that was a whole day. That was an event sitting out in the sunshine in a concert, you know, in a, in a festival. I mean, all those were fucking wonderful, but.

Mike (32:38.223)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:00.015)
Yeah.

Bill (33:00.27)
You know, but the thing of it is, is that, you know, in, okay, even, even now, you know, I could, I could go since I'm a hiker now, you know, I just kind of get a laugh every time I can say that since, you know, I'm a hiker now, right? Did we talk about that? So, but I mean, I could easily, you know, I could take, I could take a flask, I could take a six pack of beer, I could get a backpack and my leader hosted it. I could take a walk and I could, I could sit down in on a, just,

Mike (33:07.919)
Mm -hmm, right.

Mike (33:13.007)
Right.

Mike (33:24.399)
Mm. Right!

Bill (33:30.382)
Like I did, I was down and I sat on this fallen tree that was this area where I was able to get, because the tide was not tied, but the water was recessed enough. And I just sat down and I was taking some pictures and shit. Now, I didn't think about it then, but I could have done that. I could have sat down there in the sunshine and the warmth and whatever and drank a fucking beer. That would have been wonderful. OK, but you know what? You just what made me think about it is what you just said. What I did the other day and what I'm going to do tomorrow or Sunday or whatever is,

Mike (33:40.847)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:51.951)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (33:59.375)
Yeah.

Bill (33:59.63)
That's going to be enough. I don't need, the booze will not add anything to it, anything to that experience. It'll literally take away from it because I'll sit there and I'll have one, then I'll have two, then I'll have seven, and then I got to get the fuck out of this fucking camera. And I'm going to die. Or I'm just going to fall and I'm going to die. But yeah, back to the relapse thing too that.

Mike (34:14.767)
Right. Yeah. And then you're being humped by a bear.

Mike (34:21.935)
Yeah, right.

Bill (34:27.79)
You know, on days like that and in moments like that and thoughts like that, if what happens, I guess to answer that whole relapse question in my mind is that if I stop doing all the things I do every day, I get up in the morning and I do my readings and I do my prayers and I had this thing, had this process and every Friday we get out here, we do this. When I'm in Cleveland, I go to a meeting and when I have a problem, I talk to my friend Mike or I talk to somebody else or, you know, so I'm in this groove. I have this.

Mike (34:52.911)
Mmm. Aight.

Bill (34:56.27)
Literally that this program and this way of living that was given to us You know that that tells me what to do next if I have an issue But if I stop, you know, let's take out a reading or two stop doing my prayers go Yeah, fuck the meetings in this podcast. It's kind of a pain in the ass every once in a while which it is because You know the technology or whatever it is other than that. I love this but I mean Yes, it could be a pain in the ass. I get it, you know Right

Mike (35:12.591)
Yep. Yep.

Mike (35:19.183)
Mm -hmm. Right. You saw my face when we came back, right?

Bill (35:24.174)
Right, but we're here because we realize what this does for us and what could do for other people. But so little by little for everyone out there, we start taking those things away. And then we forget that we have a program of living and a program of action. We've got all these different tools in place. And then it's not even so much as saying, fuck it. We're just like, well, I'm going to go do this now because I'm not doing this. So like you said, I can handle it now. I'm good. I got this thing. Fuck that.

Mike (35:29.455)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (35:49.871)
Uh -huh. I got it. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. And then, yeah. And then this isn't enough because you're not doing what you need to do to make it enough. Yeah. So then you need something else and we know how that turns out.

Bill (35:54.158)
Ha ha ha!

Bill (36:08.43)
Right, yeah, I know. And that's the thing, and I, same thing, we talked about it a couple of weeks ago, and I've talked about it on a regular basis. The simplest thing about not forgetting the past, and not regretting the past, and not wanting to shut the door on it, I don't want to forget, regret, shut any doors, I need to keep all that shit out in the open, because I need to get uncomfortable when I think about the pain I cause people or myself. I need to get uncomfortable.

Mike (36:22.223)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mike (36:33.967)
Yep. Mm -hmm.

Bill (36:35.822)
When I think about all the fucked up things that I did and maybe what could have happened or what didn't happen because of who I was. And man, if I forget any of that, I'm in fucking trouble.

Mike (36:49.423)
Yep, absolutely.

Bill (36:51.086)
Absolutely. All right. So one last thing and it's actually on along the same line, you know, cut not really on the relapse part, but so there's a there's a podcast that I listened to. And I'm not going to mention he's a good dude, but I'm not going to mention him because who knows he might not want to be promoted on this thing. He's got a good podcast, got a great followers. I respect the shit out of him. I love all his guests. He's been doing about the same amount of time as us, but.

Mike (36:53.839)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (37:12.783)
Alright.

Bill (37:20.014)
On a far bigger level than us, but I, you know, no, no regrets. I'm not pissed off at him. The guys he's good at what he does. Um, but he talks about every once in a while and he says it this same way every single time. He says, um, he says the fair, it's a fact that very, very, very, he always says very, very, very, or it's very, very, very unusual for somebody to get sober and stay sober on their first try. And you know, I, every time he says that I'm like, I'm like, wait a second, you know,

Mike (37:39.503)
Hmm.

Mike (37:45.775)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (37:49.454)
But then I thought about that and it was a question and I know we kind of joke about it, you know, a little bit, but, and is, I mean, I'm proud of the fact that this is, this is my first run at this thing, you know, so far. But is it, is the pride that I feel, and then I start questioning myself. I don't want to be too, when we talked about this, the prideful part being proud of, would that be dangerous for me to be too proud? I know you'd be the first one to say, hey, settle down there, boy. You know.

Mike (37:55.439)
Mm.

Mike (38:01.775)
Right. Mm -hmm.

Mike (38:17.039)
I was just about to.

Bill (38:19.022)
Yeah, which you haven't done that yet, but you know, so I don't know, I just started kind of saying, okay, it could be a dangerous slippery slope, right, if I handle it wrong.

Mike (38:28.847)
Oh yeah, exactly. If you handle it wrong. And I mean, the guy's absolutely right. It is very, very, very unusual. You know, it's also very, very, very unusual for anyone in this day and age, never to have taken drugs, only fucking drank. Oh, you're fucking weirdo, man. You're an anomaly. You're an anomaly. You are. Whatever. Right. And, and.

Bill (38:35.214)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Bill (38:43.118)
Thank you. Thank you.

Mike (38:56.879)
And I guess there's something to be proud of that. I don't know. Yeah. The drug part, not really. Cause you know, you're an idiot. But, um, yes, yes. Um, it's your first go at this thing and, uh, clearly, you know, uh, a little more than a week shy of 14 years. Yes. That is a very unusual thing. Very, very, very, uh, but so what, you know, nobody said it was fucking impossible.

Bill (39:02.062)
Right.

Bill (39:16.974)
Right.

Bill (39:21.294)
Right.

Mike (39:26.543)
Nobody said that, you know, it can't be done. I mean, clearly, you know, Bill Wilson didn't get it on his first try. Uh, you know, Dr. Bob didn't get it on his first try. I fucking didn't get it on my first try. Oh, you did. Cool. All right. Yeah. Right. So far, but absolutely right. Yeah. Shit. I know this may not be my last time. I'm pretty sure it is, but.

Bill (39:33.934)
Right.

Bill (39:42.19)
Right. So far. Yet. There's the yet's and the so far's, right? Yeah.

Bill (39:52.718)
Ha ha ha ha.

Mike (39:53.647)
You know, it is for today. That's for God damn sure. Um, and, um, yeah, you know, uh, yeah, you could have a little pride, I guess. Um, I personally, I would just go, well, um, yes, I'm, um, a little unique, but so fucking white. Okay. And.

Bill (40:10.894)
Right, right. And, and you know, and you know, that's it. That's the thing. And it's, it's been brought up and we brought it up on here. But I mean, you've been around me for, you know, 14 fucking years. And like I say, we joke about it sometimes more. Well, I'll throw my egotistical, you know, spin to it or whatever. It's the same as the four day thing. Like I just did a little bit ago, you know, when you have more time, but that's just fucking around, you know, you know, but I mean, I'm, I'm happy.

Mike (40:23.119)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (40:29.391)
Mm -hmm.

Right.

That's right. I know.

Bill (40:38.062)
of where I am in my sobriety. The fact that it's my first run is relatively unimportant. It actually is. It's completely unimportant. I'm proud of the fact that I had the opportunity when I did, because I was able to live, and the fact that I've held onto that opportunity. But it really doesn't matter, like you said. So what? So I mean, I'm aware of it. I'm proud of what I have and what I've attained. Yeah.

Mike (40:45.295)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (41:01.295)
Yeah, right. I mean, well, yeah. So it's my.

Yeah, exactly. Right. So it's my, you know, whatever, I don't know, 10th or I have no idea. I could not fucking tell you exactly. I could probably sit down and figure it out, but again, doesn't fucking matter today matters. This is the time that matters. So yeah, you know, whether it's your first or your 14th or your 112th man, are you fucking sober today? All right then good for you and good for me.

Bill (41:11.726)
Right.

Bill (41:33.198)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. And I, and I agree with you. I agree with you wholeheartedly in it. He's, he said it just a number of times. It was just the, like I said, it just happened to be the other day. And I was probably listed in that same deal on the way down here. And again, it's getting close to an anniversary and I do, I get all these that this is a, the last three months at least before an anniversary every year and definitely the last 30 days before an anniversary. It's always really reflective times for me things.

I pay attention to things more sometimes things, you know, pop into my head a little bit differently. And, um, and I don't know why, you know, but I'm grateful for that too, because maybe it's kind of, uh, I don't know. It's just, uh, uh, a re, uh, a spark, a new spark or whatever it is, you know, kind of regenerating myself for a new year. I don't know what the fuck it is, but it's not a bad thing, but it just, I, I seem to be a little bit more in tune with, with what's going on with my sober shit.

Mike (42:04.911)
Hmm.

Mike (42:21.423)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (42:29.486)
And I think about my question to a certain extent, but also try to check myself too and make sure that I got my shit in order. You know?

Mike (42:40.271)
And that's pretty much what we fucking do 12 months a year, 365, 366 this year, days of the year. Right. Yeah. You know, check yourself, be aware. Right. That's what we do. That's how we fucking live our lives today.

Bill (42:48.27)
Right, right.

Bill (42:52.27)
Right? Yeah.

Bill (42:59.662)
Right. Yeah, exactly. So, OK. I think that was I think that was it. I had a there was a news story that came out. It had nothing to do with sobriety. We could talk about it. Talk about it next time. We may have a guest coming up here shortly in the next couple of weeks. So, yeah, it's been it's been a while. But if we have a guest, cool. You get to you guys get to listen to a guest for maybe half of the episode. But if not, fuck it. Come back and listen to us. Some of some of y 'all have said that you enjoy just listening to us. So for those of you, cool.

And other than that, what do you think, Mike? We done? You gonna run us out of here?

Mike (43:32.367)
All right, we getting out of here?

Bill (43:36.59)
Yep, we're done.

Mike (43:37.967)
Yes. Yes, we are. We are done. Alright, kiddies. We'll think.

Bill (43:40.046)
It's your turn.

Mike (43:46.607)
All right, kiddies, thanks for listening to another episode of sober, not mature as always be kind to each other. Be good to each other. Do something nice for somebody else this week. Don't tell anybody that you did it. Guess what kids it's time. It is that time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream.

And keep fucking off forever.

Bill (44:22.414)
There must have been, I heard you laugh, there must have been some sort of long delay in there, so I'm guessing that's what it was. But it seemed to be on my end, it seemed to be going okay, I could hear a little lag, but all in all, I think we're choosing a good time to be done. So, since I don't know if we're delaying or not, I'm just gonna say, Mike, I love you brother, and goodbye.

Mike (44:47.567)
I love you too. See y 'all next week. Bye.