SoberNotMature - Episode 116 (Investigating Contempt)

Bill (00:02.741)
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, not mature. I was actually gonna start off with a hoo buddy and a y 'all and whatever, and I'm like, fuck it, we had a little bit of a delay. Not us this time, Riverside things, so, but yeah, so we're up and running, I don't know, a few minutes later than what we would've, or I don't know, doesn't matter. Yeah.

Mike (00:12.238)
Heheheheh!

Mike (00:26.446)
That we planned, but yes. Yeah.

Bill (00:29.077)
Then we planned and then just had a little issue. But you know what, one way or the other, even if we would have been ready to start on time, Riverside was not. So, man, God only knows what the hell that was. Dashboard issue, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, but yeah, so anyhow, I'm in Texas. That's part of the thing. I get a couple of stories about that. But I'll give you one guess about where I'm actually recording. You'll never guess, but I'll let you guess.

Mike (00:37.71)
Right.

Mike (00:59.082)
You're in the bathroom.

Mike (01:04.974)
Ha ha ha ha! I guessed.

Bill (01:05.573)
You did! You know what? You impressed me. Now ask me why.

Mike (01:11.246)
Why?

Bill (01:12.949)
Okay, first of all, it has nothing to do with bodily functions at all. So, I know. Yeah. Well, why'd you, why'd you do the podcast in the bathroom? Monster shits and, you know, just what, what am I willing to do? Right. But, but no, that's not actually it. So short story, you want to hear the why. I mean, we got time, right? I think we got a little bit of time to fill.

Mike (01:16.462)
-huh. Well, that's no fun.

Mike (01:35.534)
I don't know, but yeah, you're getting a little reverb off of it. So it's kind of cool. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so.

Bill (01:39.957)
Really?

Huh, okay. So hopefully, because I've got the echo thing on, I actually put my...

Mike (01:47.374)
Right. Yeah. No, I mean, I think just the acoustics in the room, is it tile in there?

Bill (01:52.725)
It is, but what I did was I put the rug down that I bring with me. I've got the bath mat and I hung a blanket over the shower curtain to try to cover that part of it up. But I don't know. Yeah. It just, I thought with the, hopefully with the echo cancellation and stuff like that, that hopefully it'll record okay. But either way, fuck it. It is what it is. But I challenge anyone out there to find any other podcast that's recording from the bathroom tonight. So.

Mike (02:14.094)
Right.

Mike (02:20.654)
Hehehehehe

Bill (02:20.853)
If nothing else, we're not unique, but in this case, maybe. So, so the short story is, you know, long drive on Saturday, I got here, I got all my shit unloaded, got a couple of things checked and made sure I knew where the router was and all this other garbage to make sure everything was kind of set right up to the store. I got like a pre -made meal because I was fucking hungry. Came back here, got like my work stuff set up and whatever I ate, sat down, watched TV, had a drumstick and I'm like, fuck, I'm tired. I went to bed.

Mike (02:24.366)
Eh?

Mike (02:41.774)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (02:50.357)
So Sunday, same thing, just kicking around, doing whatever. And then I sit down on Sunday night and the couch is, you know, just on a back wall. The way this property is set up, there's four units in this building, but it's a ranch style building. It's obviously not two stories. There's two end units and I'm on one of the ends. Actually the most private of, you know, the entire thing, which is cool. And then there's, yeah, but then there's two in the middle and it's not fancy. There's a couple other things about it, but it is what it is.

Mike (03:13.262)
Fancy.

Mike (03:19.63)
Heheheheh

Bill (03:21.205)
So, you know, the two in the unit, so I only have one person, you know, like one shared wall, but it's shared for the living room and the bedroom and, you know, the rest of it's kind of a two room place, you know, and that bathroom being separate. So I'm sitting there on Sunday night and I'm watching TV and it sounded like somebody was standing right outside the door. Cause I heard somebody clear their throat and I'm like, who the fuck is standing outside that door? So I muted the TV and wait for a minute and.

Mike (03:33.678)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (03:50.581)
person like coughed or whatever, it was behind me. Okay. So the walls are so fucking thin. It's like, it's like being in, in a house in a normal bedroom, because those walls are never real thick. It seems to be like, that's the, like the thickness of the walls. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Cause I already set up all my work stuff. I mean, my, my desk is facing that wall. It's the only real comfortable place I can put it.

Mike (03:54.318)
huh.

Hmm.

Mike (04:04.334)
Right.

Bill (04:17.333)
And I'm like, well, I hope this guy fucking works. Cause if he doesn't, he's going to hear me in the morning and fuck him, you know? but then I thought about it as it came to the podcast thing. I'm like, I'm going to sit there and you know, he's, he was, whether he's got off days on Thursdays and Fridays, I don't know, but he was here, you know, so I'm like, fuck it, man, I got to work. So I didn't really care too much, but you know, with this thing, I'm like later on at night, somebody's trying to relax. I'm, I'm trying to think of other people, but then again, I'm like, I, I just, I want to be able to, I get a little loud every once in a while and I just.

Mike (04:21.774)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (04:32.526)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Mike (04:46.03)
Yeah.

Bill (04:46.677)
I don't want to have to be conscious of somebody literally sitting next to me.

Mike (04:50.798)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like an office space, man. The dude next door.

Bill (04:55.189)
It's okay for me to listen at a reasonable level I'm doing my part Yeah, right, yeah, yeah I was Right, yeah, that's and that's kind of what it is I literally cuz the guy for whatever reason He's one of those guys that apparently likes to be on the phone a lot. So I hear him talking on the phone I can't like hear conversations, but I hear bits and pieces. I'm like Jesus fucking Christ, you know but again, I

Mike (04:59.182)
No, no, I was thinking his neighbor. yeah, right. You know, they're talking through the wall. Turn on channel six. They're showing tits.

Bill (05:24.181)
It's one of those things where, I mean, I, I get it that the person who rents out this Airbnb is not going to say, yeah, but by the way, it's fucking thin walls, you know, nobody's going to rent that rent the place. Cause had I known there's no fucking way I would have rented here because I mean, I, I, I do this partially, you know, to obviously I work in it's remote and all those things, but I do, I want to have a little bit of privacy, you know? every place I've been in, you know, has neighbors to it, but it hasn't been like this, you know, so.

Mike (05:33.162)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (05:46.414)
Yeah.

Bill (05:53.653)
Again, is what it is, but then I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. I can, I could just go in the bathroom there. It's got central air, you know, so I'm not going to get, you know, fucking hot. There's a air conditioning vent in here. Just pulled my rug in here. I've got the TV tray. So I'm set up basically like I used to set up at your house when, when I would just be visiting and you know, same type of deal, but I'm just sitting next to the toilet. So yes, right.

Mike (06:03.534)
Right?

Mike (06:10.542)
Right?

Mike (06:14.158)
Yes. But I have, I have proper walls here. That happens when you have 105 year old home.

Bill (06:21.973)
Yeah, they're made of like steel or cement or something, right? Yeah.

Mike (06:23.694)
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's yeah, it's plaster and there's wood slats in there. yeah, it's it's old timey.

Bill (06:33.301)
Right. Well, and I didn't ask when I was there because obviously being there for that week, I mean, Lydia was gone for a few days, but at least for one or two days, she was there while I was working. I don't know if she could hear me. I forgot to ask her. So but yeah, and it's, you know, again, they like it, Kathy's house, you know, when when there was a guest in the other bedroom, you know, I mean, I can hear people through there, you know, and it kind of is what it is. But I don't know. I just figured, fuck it. I don't want to be because I know I would have been self -conscious of trying to record.

Mike (06:41.518)
Right.

Mike (06:45.006)
Probably not.

Bill (07:02.453)
you know, with being lonesome, like, what the fuck, let's go in the bathroom. Thanks on top of it, it'd be a fun conversation. And hey, you know, I mean, we go long a little bit. I drink coffee. If I got to go, I mean, I'm right here, you know.

Mike (07:05.39)
Right. Yeah.

Hehehehehe

Right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, pull that microphone down there and, yes, we will have sound effects.

Bill (07:19.209)
Yeah, I I'll try to I was gonna say I'll promise I'll try to promise that I I try not to have to go to the bathroom during this time frame Okay, I figured I'd flush the toilet I Flushed the toilet. That's cool. If things get really bad like if I don't know if you get done some fucking ramble with it I you know, you're running on too long, which never happens. I'll flush the toilet then we'll know so

Mike (07:30.638)
Whatever.

Mike (07:41.294)
Mmm.

Okay.

Bill (07:46.101)
But before we forget, obviously we're running into Mother's Day weekend. So, you know, obviously Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there. I know we don't have, we've been getting a little bit more of a female audience, but you know, so for all you, you know, the females out there, their moms, all you mothers out there, happy Mother's Day. Obviously, yeah, you motherfuckers, there you go. And then, you know, hopefully, you know, if everyone's still, if your mom is still around.

Mike (07:50.35)
Mmm.

Mike (07:57.486)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (08:01.134)
Are you mothers?

That's right. And for the guys, you motherfuckers.

Bill (08:15.989)
Cherish it because we don't have a mom around anymore, but you know kind of kind of is what it is But you know, so just I don't know everyone enjoy the enjoy the weekend and I figured I'd say that before before we forgot but who knows maybe we'll remember at the end too So anyhow, so yeah, I got some stories and I found I found something on the well I found something about us that's very nice and I want to read that off and then I don't know I get I get nonsense but

Mike (08:18.35)
Hmm?

Mike (08:29.774)
Hehehehehe

Mike (08:37.55)
Mmm.

Bill (08:41.493)
I think, what do you say, should we do one of them fucking readings, get that fucking thing out of the way? You got one? Right. Random.

Mike (08:44.878)
Yeah, let's do a reading because you know, yeah, sure. Why not? I've got a book here. I can open it up and read something out of it. Right now, actually, today's was pretty damn good. So I thought I'd do that one. Although I forgot to look up the quote, who this person is. I don't know. Why don't I do that now? Let's hey, real time. Let's see here. Let's go to the Google machine. Margaret.

Bill (09:05.493)
Hahaha!

Mike (09:13.839)
Bonando. Nope, that ain't it. and it's still doing voice. wait, now it's doing everything. Stop, stop. Google machine. Margaret, let's try typing it. good Lord. And now I'm getting a text message.

Bill (09:16.053)
Bonando!

Bill (09:24.821)
Hehehehe... Hehehehe... Hehehehe...

Bill (09:36.085)
See, is it the beauty of technology, right?

Mike (09:39.758)
I know.

D O N N N N N N N

Bill (09:51.285)
Bernando sounds like a like an ABBA song. Bernando.

Mike (09:54.446)
Right.

Alright, well apparently she's some fiction writer. Alright, I could go deeper but I'm not going to.

Bill (10:01.301)
Okay, cool.

Go deeper with Margaret. With your Bernando.

Mike (10:08.686)
All right. Wow. No, actually a picture came up. No, thank you. All right. May 10th. It is only possible to live happily ever after on a day -to -day basis. Margaret Bonando. It is said, quote, the moment is our link to eternity, to the divine.

Bill (10:14.653)
No bueno.

Mike (10:38.414)
Close quote. Recovery gives us many messages about living in the moment. Easy does it, one day at a time, just for today. As active addicts, we use chemicals to alter our relationship with the present. By getting high, we live disconnected from the moment. Now we are learning that the present moment is our best point of influence. In this moment, we can choose to act from our values or to betray our values.

By living in the moment, we stay connected to our higher power and our values. With each new day of staying sober and living a life of principles before personality, we increase our chances of doing the same in the future. Prayer for the day. Higher power, you are found in every moment. Help me seek you out in everyday life, not in the past or in the future, but now. Today's action, those.

pesky actions. Today I will practice living in the moment. If I find myself drifting into the past or the future, I will come back to the moment.

Bill (11:48.917)
Right, the moment. Okay, so that is something that, I mean, clearly we talk about a lot. You know, obviously being present, living in the moment, I mean, that's one of the things that I'd say that's one of the main things we learned or we're told right away, wouldn't you say?

Mike (12:06.958)
Yeah, absolutely.

Bill (12:09.781)
You know, I mean, not, I mean, obviously it's in the big book. Don't regret the past or was to shut the door and blah, blah, blah. And try not to, you know, what do they call? I mean, the, the kids call it now future tripping, you know, worry about, and I've, I've heard it, I've heard it on plenty, plenty of podcasts, future tripping, you know, but, and I get it. I mean, I understand the concept, you know, looking at something in the future and getting all freaked out or weak down about it and all that stuff. And, you know, also, you know, obviously people have said, we've talked about it that.

Mike (12:14.574)
All right.

Mike (12:20.334)
Mmm, is that what the kids call it?

Okay, all right.

Mike (12:32.526)
Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Bill (12:39.765)
whatever we end up building up in our minds, good, bad, or indifferent, you know, usually doesn't happen in that exact way. Rarely does it happen in that exact way. Again, good, bad, or indifferent, you know. But there, I wrote down, there's one thing I wrote down that I want to talk about in more detail, but day -to -day basis I wrote down that was right in the beginning. Living in the moment, clearly that's everything we're talking about. And the moment is the best point of influence.

Mike (12:42.638)
Mm. Right.

Mike (12:48.206)
Right. Right.

Mm -hmm.

Bill (13:08.277)
That I liked and, you know, in, what do you think, I don't remember what the entire sentence said, but best point of influence was to talking about just influencing our day -to -day lives or overall direction or what do you think that was actually?

Mike (13:20.718)
Buh -bup -bup -bup -bup -bup -bup -bup -bup

We are now learning to that the present moment is our best point of influence. Yeah. I mean, I think I took it as, you know, if we're, if we're living in the, in the, in the moment, in the present, that's where we can have the most influence. You know, that's, that's reality, you know, it's because we definitely can,

go off on flights of fancy and, you know, again, that the control thing and yeah, the outcomes and all of that. And like you said, man, you know, the outcome is not going to be what we thought it was going to be. It never is. yeah, good, bad or different. It's going to be, yeah, something other than what our little twisted minds came up with. yeah. So.

Bill (13:55.797)
Ha ha ha ha!

Mike (14:21.582)
best point of influence. That's, and it's, I think the best, how we can help others the best because we're, we're staying in the moment. We're not, you know, tripping off, to use the kids words, on, on our little flights of fancy, man, you know, we're, we're looking at reality square in the face, which, you know, we don't always like to do, but, but actually the, the, the more that I do this thing, I do.

Bill (14:36.277)
Hehehehehe

Mike (14:51.438)
actually prefer reality today. I certainly did it in the past, but yeah, yeah, because it is what it is and it's it's it's not going to change in my little perceptions of things don't matter. And so, yes, true actual reality in the moment is the best because that's what it is, you know, in my little trips and controls and whatever.

Don't come into play because I can't control actual reality. It just is its thing. It's the truth. It's pure and it's, yeah. Yeah, I can't manipulate it because it's fucking what it is. So good. Save that energy for something else.

Bill (15:33.141)
Hehehehe.

Bill (15:43.893)
Right? Well, and I think that goes back to the freedom, too, of realizing that we can't control. It comes back to the whole people, places, and things shit. And once again, and I know I've said this on here before probably more than enough times, but I think it's worth repeating. I say twice a day, because it's embedded in my prayers, I tell myself twice a day, morning and night, people, places, and things.

Mike (15:55.47)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (16:12.494)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (16:12.661)
you can't control them, you know, I and and I've been saying that the number of days we've been sober. I don't know when I started saying it, but it was really early. And I think when we were still at the Keating Center and walking the mile and doing that shit, it's been a long, long, long time. And because I realized or was told or learned, you know, that that's one of my biggest problems is that that control thing. And, you know, people, places and things, you know, everyone always told us.

Mike (16:23.726)
Mm -hmm. Sure.

Mike (16:38.638)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (16:42.037)
Watch out for people, places, and things, you know? And just realizing and telling myself that I can't control it, but that's it. You know, we have influence on how we act and react and how we live and how we, I don't know, exist in a positive way, exist in this moment in that we do have influence. We've got influence on ourselves and hopefully we're being decent people have positive, we can have influence on anyone. It doesn't necessarily have to be, hey, that...

Mike (16:52.43)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (17:10.101)
those dudes are a bad influence, which maybe at times, you know, but but I mean, we have that ability these days to I mean, we can't influence the future. We certainly certainly can't change the past. And like you said, you know, it it is it is what it is. Right. Yeah.

Mike (17:13.078)
Sure.

Mike (17:25.054)
Yeah, and yeah, like you said, it's it's the freedom of not having to control shit. Yes, exactly. Living in living in the now, man, is is yeah. What else is there? I mean, really, you're just fucking burning calories and wasting your time trying to either relive the past, live in the past or try to change the future. It's just stupid, man. Now is all we have. So enjoy it. Live it to its fullest. And yeah, I.

Bill (17:36.437)
Right.

Mike (17:54.798)
I definitely prefer it this way.

Bill (17:57.365)
Yeah, it is the as they say the this is the easier softer way even even though we didn't think so to begin with But the the freedom part so there's a there's a podcast one of the podcasts I listen to they usually for the most part I mean, they're pretty consistent like we release on Saturdays. They release every Thursday so I was listening to their podcast episode last night when I was getting my dinner together and one of the there the the one guy he's got he's got nine or ten years somewhere that range the

Mike (18:03.63)
Right.

Mike (18:14.446)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:25.006)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (18:25.749)
The chick that's on there, I think she's coming up on three years. So it's a cool difference that they have every once in a while and watching literally both of them grow over the last couple of years that I've been listening to them. They came out around the same time or shortly after we did, somewhere in that range. But she was talking about the fact that she went, she's a nurse and they went to a baseball game with, it was like, I don't know, they were honoring, I guess this is Nurses Week, I think. And if...

Mike (18:33.966)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (18:54.094)
Yeah, yeah, I heard something about that on the radio. Yep.

Bill (18:56.885)
And you know side note on that anyone who listens to us it's a nurse Happy nurses week, you know, we you you guys serve a purpose a real big purpose, you know, sometimes Sometimes a bigger purpose than the doctors if you ask any nurse they'll tell you that they'll they'll admit that fully But so they went to this game and she said every everyone that she was there with was drinking She said not everyone was you know drinking?

Mike (19:02.67)
Sure.

Yeah, take my temperature.

Mike (19:11.79)
yeah. Mm -hmm.

Bill (19:22.869)
Problematically or alcoholically, but she said she was sitting there and you know, obviously the beer guys running around everyone grabbing drinks doing this and that and so, you know, like I said, she's probably two and a half years sober and she said that She was sitting there and she was talking about this and she's like, it's so weird for me to say this But she goes I just felt so free You know and and he's like, yeah, he goes that is he goes that he goes enjoy that freedom. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, we say that I'm like

Mike (19:24.398)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (19:48.366)
Hey! Hey!

Bill (19:51.637)
Hey, I didn't even mean it that way. Like you stole it. But I'm like, I'm like, yes, you know, because because it was she was in a in a circumstance. I think she's been to one or two sporting events since then. But, you know, she was slow to get back into the groove of things like that with like a lot of people are myself included, you know, but she was just sitting there realizing that fuck, man, I'm in a baseball game and I'm in an area. It's you know, it's nice out area where I would have usually drank. I'm watching other people drink, not necessarily getting stupid, but I know I would.

Mike (19:56.43)
Right?

Bill (20:21.589)
And man, is that a great freedom, you know? So it was just, it was cool. And that reminded me of it when we started talking about freedom. But yeah, I mean, it's a lot of other people, thankfully, I think experience that same thing. And I think it's huge, you know?

Mike (20:21.646)
No, right.

Mm -hmm.

Mike (20:35.438)
No, yeah, well, I'm a big part of this thing. Doing it. If you're doing it right, you're going to get free, man. You know, I mean, what is addiction? It's slavery. It's absolutely, you know, I was a slave to the substances. I was a slave to my impulses and my feelings. I was and I'm not today because I'm in the fucking moment. Yeah. You know, excuse me. And I know my feelings.

Bill (20:45.621)
Right.

Bill (20:52.949)
Hahaha!

Mike (21:03.438)
are going to change and I don't have any power over those either. You know, I just have the power to react to them or ignore them because again, I have the knowledge that my feelings don't fucking matter. It's my actions. You know, I can, I can be miserable or I can be totally fucking happy and, and, and my actions don't change due to my moods. Unlike, unlike Dick, you know, who affect.

Bill (21:31.175)
Ha ha ha.

Mike (21:31.886)
affects the weather according to his moods. One of my favorite goddamn things ever. I just love that one. I always have, right? Yeah, the Chicago guys, the bears, right? Yeah. Dick can affect the weather according to his moods.

Bill (21:34.677)
Right. Right. Yep.

Bill (21:48.565)
Yeah, that was wasn't it that was george went that did that wasn't it george went one of the guys that did it

Mike (21:55.534)
yeah, George went and, John Goodman and Chris Farley. Yeah.

Bill (21:58.933)
Chris Farley is in there and then, yeah, yeah. And there was another guy with dark hair and I know the actor but I can't, or the comedian, I can't think of his name but yeah, all the time, duh bears. shit, that's right, yeah, cause he had the oversized, fucking oversized bush mustache. I think they probably all did but yeah, that was actually funny. But yeah, I mean you're right though.

Mike (22:09.614)
Well, I think Mike Myers did it for a while too.

Mike (22:21.55)
See ya'll.

Bill (22:27.637)
You know, I mean, it doesn't matter what's what's going on. It doesn't have to affect our moods. But, you know, the other thing I thought about with the freedom part, I don't make this pop into my head. But I think when I was when I was in the Ozarks and I was going someplace, just kind of kick it around the one week, you know, the full weekend that I was there and I drove by a couple of bars, you know, and I mean, clearly I knew there are bars and I mean, they were whatever time it was, you know, it's two o 'clock on a on a beautiful, you know, Sunday or Saturday afternoon.

And the parking lot is like fucking full. And I'm like, and there wasn't, there was no outdoor, no outdoor patio or anything like that. Part of that, I mean, that I can at least understand a little bit if you get to sit outside, you know? But you know, I'm sure with a lot of way these bars are, you walk in, it's fucking dark, it's dingy, and you're just sitting in there fucking drinking and same deal, you know? The freedom, you know, we don't have to do that shit anymore, you know?

Mike (23:18.798)
Yeah.

Right. I mean, that's why I went into a bar because it was dark and dingy and all I had to do was drink.

Bill (23:26.013)
Right. Did I tell you? God, again, it was in the Ozarks. I went to this one trail and it was an older guy. I had stopped to take a couple of pictures. And if I had to guess, he's probably mid -60s, maybe even late 60s or something like that. It could have been his early 70s. But he was easily 10, 15, 20 years older than me. But I had stopped to take some pictures and he kind of passed me on the trail. So I was...

Mike (23:50.286)
huh.

Bill (23:55.061)
I don't know, when I'm walking through places like that, I'd rather, I don't sit there and want to like walk along with somebody, same deal, you know? Just want to enjoy it with my shit. So I let him get a little ways ahead of me. And then there was this one part where you kind of cross a road, go through a parking lot, then go on to this other part of the trail. And he was sitting on the steps, going to the next part of the trail. You obviously just take a little breather and I start walking up and I look and I'm like, is that a, I'm like, sure, it's fucking shit. The dude's got a pint of vodka.

Mike (24:01.838)
Right.

Bill (24:24.309)
Sitting next to the next to him on the steps and I'm walking up. I'm like, I'm like, hey Can I ski, you know sneak through here and he picks up his bottle and I just walk through so the guys fucking walking through this hiking trail Drinking his his pint of vodka same deal the freedom, you know, I had a bottle of water So I'm just I mean again, I I'm not fault the guy hit it is what it is man, but I'm just again I'm glad it's not me, you know

Mike (24:43.694)
Nice. Yep.

Mike (24:55.214)
Yeah. Well, at least he was staying hydrated.

Bill (25:00.629)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So the last thing that I wrote down on here, and it's one of the sayings that I, clearly this is from the Big Book principles before, or principles before personality, that is, that's a Big Book thing, correct? Yes, it is, right?

Mike (25:18.83)
is the 12th tradition.

Bill (25:24.885)
That's what I was going to say is that I wasn't, I almost had promises, but I knew it wasn't, but, yeah. Always ever placing or always placing principle before personality is how it ends off. Right.

Mike (25:36.238)
Yup. Yup.

Bill (25:37.205)
Okay, so I think that we have probably brought that up on here before, but I don't know that we've ever talked about it. So let's just say if there's somebody new and they've heard that, they don't understand it, how would you, I don't even know how I would explain that. So I'm going to ask you first, what do you, how do you explain principles before personality or principle before personality?

Mike (26:03.662)
Well, for me, I internalize it. I make it me. I have to put the principles before my personality, because my personality is fucked up. Same thing. And also putting the principles before others' personalities, which is the way most people look at it in the program, put the principles first.

This guy is an asshole, even though he's in the rooms, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I put the principles before, you know, if he's he's can be an asshole, but he's still, you know, working the program. It's it's the principles, not his personality or hers. But like I said, I use it for myself. You know, I have to put the principles before my personality. And, you know, if I do that, then.

Probably acting like a halfway decent human being, which is sort of the point of this thing, because I didn't know how to act like a normal, decent human being before. I still really don't, but again, actions, not thoughts.

Bill (27:10.613)
Yeah. Right.

Well, and even, you know, hopefully you can act as a halfway decent, but it is funny when, cause in the book, does it say principles with an S before personality or is it singular? Do you know? Cause I can actually look it up. Let me look it up in my handy dandy big book app. Cause that's what you said is what I thought. I always thought it was talking about the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, before our.

Mike (27:31.31)
UGH

No, I'll see.

Mike (27:44.174)
I've got it. Yeah. The right, the steps in the traditions are in the back of this book too. Yeah. And anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our traditions and re reminding us to place principles before personalities.

Bill (27:55.765)
okay. Okay. So it is plural. Okay. So that, and that makes more sense to me. I mean, that, that I can, that I could, it's kind of how I always wrap my head around it, but I think I heard somebody say, maybe it was recently or I read it, you know, principal, like singular. And I'm like, wait a second. It kind of threw me in a different. Yeah. And, and that's why I was asking with that. And that's why, when, cause that was part of that reading too. And I wrote that down and I'm like,

Mike (28:12.494)
Mm. I think there's more than one.

Bill (28:22.453)
I just kind of want to get your opinion on that. So I'm glad I asked. Yeah, because I like I said, I always thought it was plural, but for whatever reason, I thought I heard it singular at some point. So cool. So what else? I mean, I like that reading. Obviously, we talk about, you know, like I said, living in the moment quite a bit. But what else? What else from the reading that kind of caught your eye or ear?

Mike (28:45.87)
I mean, that that that just is it. You know, we've talked about it, man. Living in the moment, man. Fuck the past and the future. We can't do anything about the only thing we can do anything about is right now. And and like I said, I like living in right now. It's the only thing I have, you know, what happened 10 seconds ago already happened and what's going to happen 10 seconds from now. I have no idea.

So right now it's pretty damn cool. I like it. It's enough.

Bill (29:18.289)
Right. Yep. And it is. I mean, we started off with the fact of, you know, the freedom with it. And, you know, it is. It's the easier and softer way to just deal with this moment. And just for anyone out there, we're not saying that we do plan for shit. Yes. You know, we make plans and, you know, we have hopes and dreams and all that stuff. But the key there is not allowing any of that shit to rule our lives. We can make plans, but we don't have to let it.

Mike (29:37.358)
Of course.

Mike (29:40.974)
Mm.

Bill (29:47.637)
You know, rule our lives. That's the whole point, right?

Mike (29:49.87)
Right. Yeah. And the great, you know, the wonderful line that you hear around the rooms, man, you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

Bill (29:57.917)
Yeah, well it makes me laugh every time every time I read it even though it's to me you know, it's not necessarily a god thing Just tell any one of us your plans and you know, it's somebody who'll laugh at you Yeah Exactly. This is what I'm going to be when I grow up. really? really? So a Couple of just a couple of quick things that I maybe we got time for a couple of quick things before I take the break so

Mike (30:09.262)
Right. That will laugh. yeah.

Mike (30:17.518)
Mmm.

Right.

Bill (30:27.157)
I was listening to Rob Halford again and still I just I need to say this one more time that the book is called. It's from Rob Halford, Judas Priest. It's called Confess. Even if you're not a Judas Priest fan or even if you're not a music fan, yes, it leans into it. It wouldn't hurt to enjoy music a little bit, but he's got he's just he's fucking wonderful to listen to. He's a great. He's just a great speaker or writer or whatever it is, even if he had some. It doesn't matter. His stories are great. So.

Mike (30:31.278)
-huh.

Bill (30:56.597)
They finally came up to his sobriety date, January 6th of all dates, 1986. And then he also said he has not gone to an AA meeting since he left rehab. He says that of course that doesn't work for everyone, but so far that has worked for him. I didn't know again anything about, you know, his program or whatever he did, but when he.

Mike (31:02.99)
Hmm.

Right?

Mike (31:19.982)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (31:24.917)
when he was taken to whatever hospital it was, I think he was in New York at the time. And they kept saying the name of the hospital, not that it matters, but you know, he went in there, did the meetings, did the whole bit. Obviously, I think went through detox and all that different shit. But yeah, so did you know that, that he was not, hadn't gone to any AA meetings or wasn't an AA guy? I didn't know.

Mike (31:48.75)
no, I don't. Yeah. I don't think so. I didn't know one way or another. I mean, I, I follow him on, Facebook and stuff. And I mean, he posts stuff that, you know, is pretty A centric, but, yeah, you know, I mean, I, I've talked about my feelings about the meetings. you know, meetings are definitely important early on, to, you know,

have the fellowship and know that you're not alone and be with other people working this thing and learning how to work this thing and all that. But I mean, well, clearly you don't go to very many meetings, like certainly not on a regular basis. And I go to one a week. It's my home group and I go to be of service. It's the only fucking reason I go. I mean, the fellowship's nice and whatever, but.

You know, like Bob, you stalling say it's an inside job and being in a church basement is not going to keep you sober. I've said before, I shot up in the bathroom of a meeting before. I've been drunk at meetings before I've been high at meetings before. Yeah. A meeting is not going to keep you sober. It's, it's, it's a small part, the fellowship and, and, and being around people knowing you're not alone and all of that, you know, I'm.

thoroughly convinced I'm not alone. I'm thoroughly convinced that this thing works and I've been shown how to do it and all of that. Again, I go to one meeting a week now because I go to be of service. It's the only fucking reason I go there. You know, I don't want to go to a meeting. I don't need to go to a meeting. You know, if it's a Tuesday and I'm stressed out about it or something, going and sitting in a church basement is not going to, not going to solve my problem.

You know, it's it's doing what I was taught to do internally to work the program, work the steps, apply these principles and all of my affairs. That's what's going to keep me sober. You know, like I said, I've been to meetings drunk. I've been to meetings high. I've gotten high at meetings of meetings are great and they're important part of early on. But yeah, you know, they're that's not.

Mike (34:07.854)
And plus we didn't get sober to go sit in a church basement six nights a week, seven nights a week. That's, you know, I know people do and that's fine if it works for them. I know most of the people I know that are like in a meeting all the time and have been for years and years and years, aren't all that happy.

Bill (34:12.053)
Heheheheh

Bill (34:30.581)
Right. Yeah. And you're right. And I've been open about that. And so have you about the meetings and stuff like that. And even before, you know, obviously I got the pandemic, I don't want to say obviously, the pandemic drew a lot of people away from physical meetings. And that was the start of me getting away from them and did the online meetings. But then I started getting into podcasts, you know, and I, when I travel, like I went to South Carolina, I went to a couple,

Mike (34:46.798)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (34:59.253)
I'll do that if I have time, you know? And what I say when I have time, when I was in that area, I wasn't working yet when I was down there. I was just kicking around. I'm like, I'm going to hit a couple of meetings, you know? But now, I mean, as I'm doing all this stuff, I'm working all fucking day. And, let me let you in on another thing. I'm kind of a walker now. I take walks now. I do. No, I went for a walk.

Mike (34:59.31)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (35:04.014)
Right.

Mike (35:11.822)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (35:23.63)
You hike? Is that what you're saying?

Bill (35:29.173)
I went up by, there's a, there's a park up the road from here. And, on Monday, cause it had rained on Sunday. And then on Monday, I was kind of looking around on, or Sunday, I was looking around at stuff. There's a park like five minutes away from here, right along the Bay. So I'm like, I'm just going to go up there and see what's up there. It's a free park. So I just pulled in and that's what it is. It's just a park on, on the water with a walking path. You know, just a, just a regular paved path along the ocean or not the ocean, the Bay, you know, but I'm like, you know,

Mike (35:58.03)
Huh? Yeah.

Bill (35:59.125)
I went up there and I just, you know, kind of kicked around for a little bit. And then I'm like, I'm like, Tuesday. I'm like, well, why don't I just go ahead and do that? Cause I'm, I don't, I'm getting zero exercise. Cause I'm in, you know, literally going from here. I can walk three steps to get to where my coffee is. I'm not walking at all. So I'm like, yeah, let's go just go up there again. So every day of this weekend went up and it's just nice. You know, it's peaceful. And it's the same thing when, you know, I joked about the hiking thing. I don't listen to music. I don't do anything while I'm doing that. I just.

Mike (36:15.918)
Hehehehehe

Bill (36:27.253)
I get out there and I just, you know, it gives me time to, I don't know, maybe it's like a meditation thing. I'm not out there trying to, you know, have a conscious contact with anything, but you know, it is, it's, it's enjoying, you know, nature and stuff like that, you know? So, but, but anyhow, so with the, with the meetings, I don't know, I mean, with driving and stuff like that, I probably get, I probably get more recovery now with the drives I've taken than I, than I would sitting in a meeting once a week, you know?

Mike (36:34.894)
Absolutely.

Mike (36:39.022)
Vvvvv

Bill (36:56.757)
certainly more time, you know, cause I've listened into hours and hours sometimes of podcasts and that sort of thing. But here's the deal. And I think both of us have said this before. Both of us know that if we really needed, you know, to be with people and around people, we know where to go. And that's the cool part. It doesn't matter where we are. there, there is a comfort to that too, you know, yeah, knowing that we got a place to go, right.

Mike (37:16.27)
Right. yeah, absolutely.

Mike (37:22.894)
Right, yeah, absolutely. Just don't take advantage of it, because thankfully, don't need to todaBill (37:31.029)
Right, yeah, exactly. So I kind of feel like, are we delaying a little bit? It seemed like maybe we are, but I can't really tell. Does that seem really bad?

Mike (37:41.518)
We are.

Bill (37:46.645)
So I what god damn it and you know what I even have I have the speed set right and everything like that I wonder if God damn it. I hate the fuck I do this but maybe this is Riverside this time and not us but I mean, what do you think you should we just start? I mean take a break and then restart

Mike (38:05.934)
Absolutely. All right. Well, stay tuned for more of this wonderful conversation.

Bill (00:03.214)
All right, everyone. Welcome back after that quick two minute break, which again turned out to be, yeah, our, I know our Riverside is the one that's having the problem, you know, this week and both Mike and I had trouble getting actually back into the studio. So either way, it doesn't really matter. But so to wrap up one more thing with Rob Helford, I didn't know if you knew this, did you know that they were approached by the producers of Top Gun?

Mike (00:07.31)
Right. Lucky you.

Bill (00:31.694)
and they wanted to use the song Reckless in the movie. Did you know about that? Okay, so I didn't, I'd never heard that. He said that they declined because they would have had to leave it off the album, whatever album it was on. And this was a funny part, and he laughed at it when he said it, he said it kind of sarcastically. They didn't think the movie would be that big. And there was some other movie that they had a song in, because he said, we didn't want to pass up on the second time, but I can't remember what the movie was, but.

Mike (00:35.054)
I did not.

Mike (00:51.022)
Right.

Bill (01:01.582)
I'm like, fuck man, I never heard that about Top Gun and I thought maybe you had, but so never heard that, huh?

Mike (01:06.894)
I had not. Well, apparently he didn't know about the volleyball scene. Otherwise he would have been all for it. But anyway.

Bill (01:12.974)
Yeah, exactly. And that is the funny part. We see some of the shit he says. Just again, he's a real treat to listen to. He's just fucking a lot of fun. So once again, it's called Confess by Rob Halford. And I highly, highly recommend it. And I'm doing the audiobook through Audible. And I think it's, God, it's 13 hours, maybe 14 hours, something like that. I don't remember, but.

Mike (01:23.886)
Absolutely.

Bill (01:42.382)
I still have, I don't even know how much I have left, but I'm listening to it in obviously big chunks while I'm driving, but I just fucking love it. So it's a good book. All right, so do you want to hear about, I found something about us, something actually nice. Do you want to hear something good about us? So every once in a while, and I used to do this years ago too when I was doing, well,

Mike (02:01.806)
Yeah, always.

Bill (02:12.622)
years and years ago when I was writing a lot of articles and I was getting published in certain things. And then after I wrote the books and the collection industry and stuff like that, I do a search on my name, you know, to see where I might be hitting, you know, where the exposure might be. But I also ran across a couple of things where people tried to, you know, like hijack articles without my opinion or without my permission and all that stuff. And which is not what I'm looking for these days because everyone grabs ahold of our podcast, which is cool.

You know, if all the big boys and girls have it, you know, the apples and the Spotify's and the Amazons and everything like that. So we put, we actually basically push them out to those and then all these smaller ones feed off the other ones, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Somebody's selling our t -shirts on eBay. Which, yeah, and you know, I know what they're doing, because people used to do it with my books too.

Mike (02:56.59)
Mm -hmm, right.

Mike (03:02.926)
Really?

Bill (03:07.79)
Because you look at the delivery date they've got a delivery date of like four weeks or something like that So what they're gonna do is they just they somebody either maybe they bought one and tried to sell it or somebody came across whatever the deal is but if they if somebody buys one they'll just buy it from us and then we'll resell it because you look at you see the price and again, I don't give a fuck it doesn't it doesn't affect us, but Yeah, right yeah covered in motor oil, yeah, just somebody used it working on their car

Mike (03:23.214)
Right. I've waited to see one in the thrift store.

Mike (03:32.11)
Yep.

Bill (03:35.886)
but the other thing too, and I usually run across again the, the, the places that we've been, you know, podcasts we've been on the sober curator, Instagram, Facebook, all those sorts of things. But then I ran across this one. I'm like, well, that's kind of new. I've never seen you before, but. We are now featured, along with plenty of other podcasts, plenty of other sober stuff on a website called alcoholfree .com. Okay. And it's, again, it's all this.

Mike (04:00.43)
Alright.

Bill (04:04.11)
As you might imagine, it's everything about, you know, alcohol free stuff. So I saw the sobered out mature and then whatever it was, I saw a bit of the, like the write -up they did on this. I looked at like, well, this is kind of cool. So they're clearly grabbing our RSS fee, which is just a fee that you can get from like anchor and all that stuff. So they, they're posting all of our episodes, but with the exception of like the most recent three, and you can tell they're AI driven, but.

They do descriptions and all that stuff. Like one episode, this goes back to episode 108, a joint host, Mike and Bill, and a candid discussion on recovery, guilt, shame, and sobriety. And so we're not mature episode 108, exploring personal insight and reflections on the journey, the journey to inner peace, which whatever we talked about, again, keywords, that's how I know it's all AI shit. Okay. But they have a, they have a thing on there. They have podcasts notes, you know, obviously on there, which is, you know, things that I just read.

Mike (04:48.418)
Right, right.

Bill (04:59.022)
But then it has a thing called our take, which is their take on our podcast. Okay. So just out of curiosity, cause I'm like, okay, do they fawn over every podcast? And I popped into, one other podcast that is popular that I listened to. And, I know the individual and all that stuff and they didn't, that one wasn't as colorful as ours is. Okay. So I'm like, okay, this is kind of, this is kind of cool. Try not to get like, let me just read it to you. Okay. It's.

Mike (05:04.782)
Okay?

Mike (05:23.054)
Okay.

Bill (05:27.854)
It's long, but not too long, okay?

Mike (05:29.902)
Well, whatever, man, our robot overlords like us, so who cares what the humans think?

Bill (05:33.55)
Right, so, okay. Sober Not Mature, a fun and candid podcast on addiction recovery. That's the title. If you're looking for a podcast that is both informative and entertaining about addiction recovery, then look no further than Sober Not Mature, hosted by two witty, witty sober guys who have experienced, right, two witty sober guys who have experienced addiction firsthand.

Mike (05:54.766)
Tim Witte.

Bill (06:02.958)
This podcast provides an unfiltered view of what it's like to live a sober life while having fun along the way. You will discover inspiring stories from guests who have found hope in recovery. The hosts also discuss topics such as the importance of support groups and maintaining sobriety, monumental moments in sobriety, daily practices for staying sober, and much more. What sets this podcast apart is its candid approach to discussing sensitive topics related to addiction.

listeners will appreciate how openly the host share their experience with regret and nostalgia while providing valuable insights into how they cope with these emotions. Now, only thing I have a, it's not a problem with, but I disagree with, we do not share experience with any regret. So the word, that word may have been pulled out from an AI type of thing. We probably talked about not having regrets, but it says, with regret and nostalgia, take out the regret part while providing valuable insights into how they cope with emotions.

Mike (06:46.766)
Now.

Mike (06:52.59)
Bye.

Bill (06:59.854)
They talked about sharing personal experience with listeners, also interviews experts in the field of addiction recovery. They did a, for example, it's about an episode about somebody that we, a soap thing that I'm not going to read that right now because we know what that deal is. Again, if you want to visit the website, feel free. We didn't take down the episode they're speaking of, but this particular individual, let's just be straightforward.

Mike (07:16.654)
Right? Mm -hmm.

Bill (07:28.206)
We lost touch with the individual. I have no idea what the individuals do it. Yep, we don't have an affiliation with the individual, but it's not our place. And Mike and I talked about it. We're not going to pull down the episode, you know, under any circumstance unless somebody kills somebody. So, yeah. Well, you know, maybe we'll keep it up because that could get ratings. So anyhow, we have a price. And then the last two paragraphs, the hosts also, the hosts.

Mike (07:30.894)
Yeah, he's in the wind.

Mike (07:44.046)
Well, and even then. Right, right. There are no bad examples.

Bill (07:56.366)
Also discuss lighter subjects such as music that helped them during their journey or even just fun topics like first jobs post recovery. No matter what topic they cover though, you can always count on them being honest about their experiences which makes listening all the more engaging. Overall, Sober Not Mature is an excellent resource for anyone looking to understand what it's like living a sober life while still having fun along the way. It's not just another self -help podcast.

It's a genuine conversation between friends who want to share their experience with others. Nice, huh? I know, I know. And you know what? We didn't have to hump anyone's leg to get that written up either, you know? As far as I know, yeah, maybe, I don't know, you fucking somebody at alcoholfree .com. If you are, I mean, thank you. Just rubbing their leg.

Mike (08:27.886)
Nice! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah, suckers!

Mike (08:40.174)
As far as you know.

Hehehehehe

I'm not fucking them. I made a big leap there from humping their leg to fucking them.

Bill (08:54.19)
Okay, sorry, sorry, but no, I just thought it was like I say I I do a search just basically just to see Where are we reaching and I I look all the time and the thing of it is here's the other thing because I'm like Where these fucking people come from? So they're they're registered in England in Wales. Okay So that might be where we're getting some of these, you know other areas, you know, yeah, you know, but

Mike (09:17.934)
Mmm, my people.

Bill (09:22.99)
I don't know. It just, it, it, it was nice and it didn't look, it definitely, some of this stuff is probably canned written, but, you know, somebody, somebody took some time, if nothing else to take a look at this. And there's a lot of fucking podcasts on here. So I was just like, God damn that, that seems. That's pretty nice. Not only nice, but I mean, with the exception of the having the word that we, you know, we share our experience with regret, which we do not, you know, that's the only thing that, that was not correct or.

Or not, I didn't even want to say not flattering, but not on point, I guess, would be the best way to put it. So.

Mike (09:56.11)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Out of context and it doesn't have anything to do with us because we don't revert shit.

Bill (10:02.286)
Yeah, we do not revert shit, but I was I was thinking about I didn't take the time yet But I was thinking about reaching out to them and just you know kind of thanking them and they're they're on Facebook I didn't have a chance to look I just found this like two days ago, you know, obviously you've saved the link to it. But you know, I Don't know. I'll say thank you, you know for for featuring us and any place that we can get exposure like that is obviously cool You know, but I I don't know. I mean it was just it was nice. I

You know, again, not try not to get the whole ego into play, but it was just, it was really fucking nice. You know, I just thought so.

Mike (10:38.862)
Yeah, it's always good to know somebody's out there listening to us and enjoying it.

Bill (10:45.774)
Right, right. Yeah, and you know taking somebody taking the time to to write nice things about us So but anyhow, yeah So anyone out there take a look at it or if there's if there's anything that you could help support somebody that's supporting us We're all for it. So it's simple. It's just alcohol free .com. So visit them today So, so yeah, I liked it I liked it a lot

Mike (11:07.598)
All right. Hey.

Bill (11:13.422)
But a couple of just, this was just stupid side notes. So you and I have talked on many, many occasions that regardless of where you go, it doesn't matter what town, you know, what city, what area of the country, there's certain advertising that's, they're always the same. Car dealerships and attorneys, right? So I listened to, and here's the funny part. So I listened to TuneIn, that's where I listened to the morning show from Milwaukee. And.

Mike (11:35.214)
Right?

Mike (11:42.766)
Right?

Bill (11:43.502)
with kicking around like I do usually if I'm in like when I'm in Cleveland, a lot of times I'll get Cleveland based ads because you know, they can tell what location you're in. But it's

Mike (11:51.662)
Yeah, exactly. I get that off of I heart too. Right.

Bill (11:54.574)
Yeah, and then if you have you travel someplace like I'll if when I was in Missouri I was getting Missouri ads and that sort of thing which which is fine but so that the funniest part here is I'm getting an ad for some

Mike (12:04.269)
and by the way, you can listen to us on iHeartRadio if you want to.

Bill (12:08.526)
Yeah, you can listen to us on iHeart and TuneIn. Both of those you can listen to us on. So, yes.

Mike (12:13.102)
There you go. All right. Just didn't want to let that go by. Right.

Bill (12:16.79)
Yeah, in other words, you know, we're kind of a big deal. We're fucking everywhere is what we're what we're trying to Along with millions of other podcasts, right? But so I'm getting it like an ad every morning for some internet place or internet thing in Cleveland Which is weird, but then I get these I get these Texas I'll get Texas dealership ads It first of all this this may surprise you but there's a lot of fucking pickup trucks down here. Okay, just just a

Mike (12:21.39)
Right.

Mike (12:45.422)
Really?

Bill (12:45.806)
Just to let you know, yeah, I know. It's surprising, it's surprising. In these dealerships, they were having a sale on apparently Malibu's, but now they're having a truck sale and it's like this local radio station is sponsoring them. She's like, ooh yeah, y 'all are speaking our language now. Just like, my Jesus Christ, you have to just fucking live up to the stereotype. But then, so who's the fucking attorney in Cleveland? You know who I am and you know what I do?

Mike (13:15.086)
Tim Misny.

Bill (13:15.438)
Okay, so yeah, so Tim Misny is fucking bald -ass motherfucker and all it is he's like he's trying to be like the Nike symbol or something like that So just as people see his face these in his his sign literally says, you know, you know what I do It makes me fucking laugh Right. So that's his light. He makes them pay There's one in Milwaukee. That's god, why can't think of his fucking name?

Mike (13:33.07)
Right, he makes them pay.

Bill (13:45.39)
I can't even think of his tagline. It'll come to me. But there's there's these dudes here. There's one in Chicago. These attorneys in Chicago's there. They're called the Hammer in Chicago. Yeah, well, they've got them in Texas, too. The Hammers are down here, but these guys are. Have you ever seen the the the commercials for like general insurance? Come on down and get general insurance. Whatever it is. It's a cartoon character. This cart with this fucking cartoon voice.

Mike (13:55.278)
I've seen the billboards.

Mike (14:00.046)
Mike (14:13.358)
Huh? Yeah, right.

Bill (14:15.086)
swear to fucking God, that's, that's who these guys are. Okay. It's, it's Rick in something Adler, I think are their names, but it starts off. It's like, you know, this, they got me the money and I didn't expect you to like, yeah, we're going to get you the money. We're going to get you real, put the hammer down on him. Insurance companies were the hair. Call the hammer. Are you, are you fucking kidding me? And you know what?

These guys probably make money fucking hand over fist. But I swear to God, it's not even just, I don't know, they're not even attorneys to get on like, what we do for you is serious. We're going to put the hammer down. No, these fucking cartoons. Yeah, buddy. These insurance companies are taking all your money. You're stressing out about that. We got a hammer for that. I'm just like, I'm fucking weak.

Mike (14:48.75)
yeah!

Mike (15:01.262)
yeah, right.

Mike (15:10.606)
I think you've been down there too long, man.

Bill (15:13.934)
It makes me laugh. The same fucking ad plays every goddamn morning. It makes me laugh. And I'm like, but yeah, every place. Car dealerships. I don't watch the news anymore, but it used to be the the local news and the weather people. They're the same everywhere. Just, you know, obviously reporting on a different city. But, yeah, fucking car dealerships and attorneys. But this is the biggest and the funniest fucking attorneys I've ever heard in my life. Just fucking cracks me up. So.

Yeah, if you're ever in Texas and you get hurt, there's a hammer for that. Yeah, there's a hammer for that. But so anyhow, that was just a side note. So, okay, back to business. How cool was you? Are you ready? You ready to get fucking serious around here? I mean, I'm the one sitting in the bathroom. Could you just calm down a little bit? All right. So we all know about the, well, not maybe we all, but you and I,

Mike (15:46.414)
Hehehehehe

There's a hammer for that, Dale.

Mike (16:04.334)
All right.

Bill (16:12.654)
obviously know about the saying contempt prior to investigation. We've talked about that plenty. Bar used to say that blah, blah, blah. Did you know that that was part of a bigger quote?

Mike (16:15.758)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (16:22.766)
well, I mean, yeah, it's in the, what the second or third appendix in the big book.

Bill (16:29.71)
Is it though, so the whole quote is in it where it talks about there's a principle which is a bar against all information. Is that that's in the book? Is it really? I never fucking knew that. I swear to God never do that. Wow, where's that? That's in the book?

Mike (16:35.566)
Yeah, yeah. You gotta read the book sometime.

Mike (16:46.702)
Yeah, it's yeah, it's like I said, I think it's the second appendix. It's it's yeah, the spiritual awakening shit. Yep.

Bill (16:55.214)
Yeah, and clearly I know I've read it at some point, but I had no idea there was this big quote. And I was listening to Sober Friends. So our friend Matt was on, I don't know what episode it was, but look up Sober Friends. They have a podcast, him and his buddy Steve. And Steve, Matt brought it up about content. I think he brought it up, but then Steve read the quote, and I'm just gonna read it in case anyone is as fucking dumb as I am and couldn't remember it was a quote. It says, there is a principle which is a bar.

Mike (17:01.358)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (17:15.886)
well.

Bill (17:24.526)
against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation, wrote philosopher Herbert Spencer. Okay, so first of all, now that I know it's a quote, I guess that was my biggest part. I'm like, did you know you did? Probably everyone else in the world did, but so we've talked about it a lot, but I don't know, I just...

I just thought it'd be interesting to, if nothing else, have at least a brief conversation about that. What does that even mean? I mean, contend prior to an investigation. I guess to you, how do you even perceive that?

Mike (18:04.398)
Well, yeah, I mean, it's it's as the quote says, it's a surefire way to keep yourself ignorant. Right. You know, I I don't believe that. I don't subscribe to that notion, you know, contempt prior to investigation, man. I just I know better. And you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And and shutting shit down because you've got the answers already. Well, clearly we don't have the fucking answers already. Otherwise, we would.

Bill (18:31.79)
Right.

Mike (18:34.51)
Yeah, we wouldn't have ended up in places like the Keating center and church basements and, you know, having to read this book that tells us how to live. right. But yeah, that's just it. You know, no, that that's wrong. without looking into it, without learning about what a subject is, you know, saying it's wrong, saying it's stupid, saying it's, it doesn't work. yeah, yeah. Which I.

I certainly did for alcoholics anonymous. All that shit doesn't work. You got to believe in God and you got to, you know, right. All these things, right. Right. I had contempt because I didn't investigate it thoroughly. And, yeah, yeah, I, again, I keeping an open mind. no, clearly you investigate it. There's plenty of things that I've investigated and I now have contempt for.

Bill (19:10.67)
Hehehehe

Mike (19:32.694)
But I guess absolutely, you know, and there are things that there were certainly things that I Believed and thought were true and then I investigated and found out that I was full of shit. it works both ways Yeah, so, you know, yeah, keep an open mind look into things truly learn what the hell it is and then

Bill (19:33.038)
Right, but you did the work and you did the research. Right.

Mike (20:00.814)
Make up your mind whether you're going to think it's full of shit or that it actually works. But either way, yes, don't, don't keep yourself ignorant. Open that mind up and learn about things. Okay. You may learn something that you don't want to know. You may learn something. You may learn that it's full of shit. You may learn that it's the most wonderful goddamn thing in the world. And why the hell wasn't I doing this all along? Anybody relate to that?

Bill (20:02.606)
Ha ha.

Bill (20:26.478)
Right. Well, and when you were talking about that, that was the first thing that I thought about when you talked about Alcoholics Anonymous, you know? Because if nothing else, both of us had this God question mark, you know, or contempt, you know, or the religious contempt, I guess would be a better way to put it. And maybe not, I know for me, I walk it into this thing, I'm like, man, I'm not.

Mike (20:42.894)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (20:52.718)
I'm not a fucking God guy. You had that open conversation with somebody, you know, about how are you going to do this thing? You know, the fact that you're an atheist, you know, and I mean, both of us kind of got to our wit's end or ended up where we were type of thing. But still, had we, we could have still, you know, went through this whole fucking thing with contempt, never done things the right way. And I'm guessing we wouldn't have been sober this long.

Mike (20:58.798)
Right? Right?

Bill (21:22.382)
I mean, I don't have to research that much, research that part that much. We have done the research, we've seen it. We've seen it happen, you know? People that don't grab onto the principles and the concepts, we were just talking about the principles. And realizing and understanding, thankfully, being around people and hopefully in every AA group across the country, people are telling individuals that, hey, it's...

Mike (21:23.982)
Wouldn't think so.

Right.

Bill (21:50.638)
It doesn't need to be a God thing. It is not a God thing. You know, and you don't have to, you know, be a religious individual to get this thing and to, you know, to be able to practice all these principles and that sort of thing. But.

Mike (21:53.806)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (22:02.574)
Right. Well, unfortunately it's not said enough, but you know, and, and, and because that, you know, that's how it works for a lot of people and that's fine. That's, you know, great. It still works, but it doesn't have to be that way. And if you read the literature, I mean, Bill Wilson, you know, definitely laid that out. Look, it doesn't have to be that way. You know, I mean, one of my favorite lines in Bill's story is, you know,

Bill (22:06.766)
Right.

Mike (22:30.478)
to Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man not too closely followed by those who claimed him. which is, you know, give me a little insight into Bill Wilson. Yeah, yeah. These Jesus people, you know, Jesus guy was all right. These people that are claiming them. I'm not too sure about them. Yeah, that's right. They're in the big book kids.

Bill (22:43.822)
Heheheheh

Bill (22:54.542)
Yeah, and it's, I mean, like you said, I mean, for years and, you know, I try not to do it, you know, these days, you know, I try not to have contempt, you know, prior to investigation, but I know I still do at times. I can't think of anything right off the top of my head, but I think in most cases I'll catch myself, but there's certain things I know that I, you know, either I don't like or wouldn't like based on past experiences.

Mike (23:03.918)
Right?

Of course.

Mike (23:19.79)
Right?

Bill (23:21.998)
Maybe it's a version of or a thing, you know, kind of adjacent to, and I'm like, yeah, it's the same thing as that. And I didn't like that. So I'm not going to try that because I didn't like this other thing over here, you know, but.

Mike (23:29.838)
Right.

And I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not

Bill (23:38.058)
yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. Yeah, but I just, I thought it was interesting when they were talking about it. And like I said, I mean, clearly I know that we, we read through, at some point I know I've, I've read through all of that, the entire fucking big book and I went to plenty of went to big book studies and things like that. But I mean, it's been so long since I sat and, and it's funny, they were talking about, I guess, a little side note topic on that, but same episode,

Mike (23:54.542)
Right.

Bill (24:06.382)
with Matt and Steve, they were talking about the big book and they're like, you know, kind of saying that they've been going to Matt, for instance, is he just celebrated 10 years, I think, a couple of months ago. It's relatively, it lasts three, four months somewhere in that area. But he's been going to the same big book meeting for 10 years, you know? And they just brought up the, almost the topic of why do we keep doing this? You know, why do we keep reading the big book?

Mike (24:15.726)
-huh.

Mike (24:26.862)
right?

Bill (24:34.638)
Not saying that they not really questioning there, but maybe some people on the outside thinking, you know, why, why do you guys read the same meeting with the same book over and over and over? And they actually had a nice discussion about that, but the, the gist behind it, which I'm sure you're, you can guess it's just that, you know, we, and this is what Steve had said on there is that, you know, we, we forget, we have to keep doing it. We have to keep reminding ourselves. And, you know, just like anything else, it's, you know, doctors continue to learn. Lawyers continue to learn.

Mike (24:44.494)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (24:57.166)
Yes, we do.

Bill (25:04.749)
anyone that's in a any type of job. I mean, you can't just learn at the beginning and then never learn anything again.

Mike (25:04.91)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (25:11.062)
absolutely. I mean, yeah. I mean, we do safety training all the time. And yeah, in my stuff, I mean, there's monthly stuff, there's quarterly stuff, you know, sometimes it gets to be a pain in the ass, but yeah, you know, every time I do one, it's like, yeah, this, you know, this thing. but seriously, I get behind the wheel after doing one of those and it's, it's refreshed. It's there's, you know, I I'm more mindful of it if nothing else, which is the same thing with recovery.

Bill (25:34.478)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (25:40.494)
Right. You know, yeah, OK, I know this shit, but sometimes it's nice to just be reminded, you know, it gives you and sometimes, you know, you get down the road a little bit and you get a new perspective of something. You read something and you go, that's what that means. You know, it still happens to us all the time. Time, you know. Yeah. I mean, OK, I've read this thing 10 times, 14 times, whatever it is. Sometimes it'll just hit me a different way. Yeah.

Keepin' your mind open, man.

Bill (26:11.47)
Well, I mean, literally, it just happened to me, you know, five minutes ago. Did you know that was a quote? You're like, yeah, it's right there in the fucking book. I'm like, okay, I got it. Gotcha, thank you. But there's been, if nothing else, I mean, not only has it happened to us over the last 14 years on plenty of occasions, but just in this podcast, there's been a handful of things at a minimum that I've come across going, really? I had no idea, you know?

Mike (26:16.238)
Right. Yeah. Right.

Mike (26:40.334)
Bye.

Bill (26:40.686)
or these things pop up, the readings that we do. I mean, I'm really 100 % open about the fact that I don't remember the things that I read even this morning, let alone last year. And granted, I'll read it again. And here's what's funny though, is that with Facebook now and the fact that we've been, our podcast has had a Facebook page now for two years. So we're getting.

Mike (26:51.758)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (27:03.15)
Right?

Bill (27:04.398)
Memories on there and I do look at the memories, kind of look back. Sometimes I'm stealing beams from a couple of years ago or whatever and reposting them because they're funny. But what's funny is, is that the, not all the time, but a higher percentage of the time, I posted the same reading two years ago and last year that I did today. You know, because I'm reading the same, basically the same books. There was, I wasn't reading, I've been reading a day at a time now for,

Mike (27:25.006)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Bill (27:35.278)
maybe a couple of years, because I was reading from, I was getting a daily reading from in the rooms. So I pull back a lot of those because I like them, but a lot of them are, they're a little bit long and they don't fit on Instagram really well for whatever reason, just that's Instagram's way of, I don't know, doing whatever. But the, obviously God grant me and keep it simple, I've been reading for years and I'll pick out the same reading.

Mike (27:44.686)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (28:00.622)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (28:02.574)
without even knowing it. But then when I look back at the memories, I'm like, fuck man, I just posted that this morning again too. Which to me is kind of, it's cool because the same, I don't know, I'm trying to figure out sometimes, okay, am I stuck in the same, I could look at it two different ways. That I'm stuck in the same rut that I'm not, you know, catching anything new or it's solidifying that I'm still on the right path. You know what I mean? I don't know which way to look at it.

Mike (28:04.718)
Right.

Mike (28:08.398)
Hehehehehe

Mike (28:28.622)
Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and like I just said, you know, it just see something that'll hit you differently because, you know, hopefully we're slightly different people than we were a year ago or two years ago or 14 years ago. Right. So, you know, yeah, you know, shit, that makes sense now. Or, you know, this means it means something different to me than it did three or four years ago for whatever reason. Experience, age.

you know, senility, whatever it is. Yeah. So I don't think it's, I don't think, well, this whole thing is repetition, man. You know, like you said, you know, the guys in the other podcasts, you know, reading the big book over and over and over and over again. Right. All of that. It's, it's repetition. It's, you know, doing your prayers, doing your meeting, all of it. It's repetition, man. Building, how do you strengthen a muscle?

Bill (29:00.138)
Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (29:27.182)
You know, you keep doing the same thing with it over and over again to make it stronger. I think that's, you know, it applies to recovery too. Same thing, man. You know, build those muscles up, build those, builds those defenses up against that first one. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's not, I don't think it's a rut. I think it's, it's routine. That's what we fucking need, man. I do.

Bill (29:51.222)
Right. Yeah. Can I, there was no other, there was no other word that popped into my head. And I guess I wasn't thinking it is a bad thing, but yeah, you're right. It is. It's just the, it is that routine. And you know, the, the cool part too is that, you know, the, and we kind of back to what we were talking about in the beginning, as far as, you know, not going to a lot of meetings and have it growing out of this sort of, you know, in different directions and that sort of thing. You know, I'm looking back and some of these, you know, these things that I was posting, you know, 10 years ago,

Mike (30:14.478)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (30:21.326)
They were not from recovery things, but they were, you know, quotes that I was finding that were based on recovery and I'm reposting them, you know, so that led into me, you know, grabbing actual quotes from these readings and things like this and posting them. I don't know how long I've been, you know, cause I was doing it on, what the fuck, a couple of different places. Sober grid was one I did for years and shit that I think was.

Mike (30:26.574)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (30:47.662)
Like 2000, God, I think I was in Germantown when I first moved to Germantown. So 2015 maybe. So I did that for years and then obviously been posting them on Instagram. So, you know, not 10 years yet, but you know, a good eight or nine that I've been posting these quotes every morning. And it's, that is part of my posting a quote. I mean, it's cool. I like the fact that it makes me feel good that some people grab those, you know, when people comment on them.

Mike (30:53.358)
huh.

Mike (31:01.134)
Right?

Bill (31:15.054)
and stuff like that and some people share them on their stories. That makes me feel good because it's just, it's reaching a couple of people and that's what this whole thing is about. You know, but it forces me to pay attention to those readings because I have a purpose. It's I have an assignment for myself. You know, literally that's what it is. It's almost like a homework assignment every morning that I need to find one and if I don't, I'll dig back into.

just go into my pictures and I'll scroll back, you know, and just find one that catches my eye and I'll repost it, you know? So yeah, it's, it is, it's the routine, but it's the repetition and you know, the same thing. Like you said, I'm reading the big book all the time. We read the same fucking books in the morning, every goddamn day. You know, two of them every day for years, 10, 10 plus years, you know? So.

Mike (31:50.35)
Mike (32:02.638)
Yeah. Right.

I mean, 14 years every fucking day.

Bill (32:15.694)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, we started, I know the first time that I read that would have been on day seven, you know, that I was sober. And, you know, every day I've never, that's one thing that I'm just really, I'm proud. I'm proud to say that I've never missed the day of reading that one. And then like, it's whatever you start reading, God grant me, I started reading that one probably a year after that, you know, so me maybe 10 years, you probably 12, probably at least, right? Yeah.

Mike (32:22.83)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mike (32:33.614)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (32:41.71)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. How about that? Yeah. It was a couple of years in when I found it. Yep.

Bill (32:48.814)
Yeah, so anyhow, I don't remember how that only get off on that was that the contempt prior to investigation. But anyhow, so I mean, obviously good saying now I know that it's in it's in the big book and yeah, that is that is what it is. Right. Right. It's not not in the first 164, which is the program for anyone out there. So let me see. I'm just going to try to.

Mike (32:53.966)
Yeah, that was it.

Mike (33:03.726)
in the back of the book, right?

Mike (33:08.942)
No. Yes.

Bill (33:17.966)
Let's dig back here. This is one that Christ, when did we have Katie on back in September? I think. Yeah, because I was, that's right. Because I was in Oklahoma City when we recorded with her. So don't hate the addict or alcoholic depending on the on the saying or the individual hate the disease. And Katie has that bracelet. She had the bracelet from an event with a residence.

Mike (33:25.07)
Yeah, sounds about right.

Mike (33:38.606)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (33:45.678)
And she had brought it up and she asked, you know, kind of, it was a question. She's like, she's like, how do you guys feel about, about that saying? And I said, well, I'll write it down and we'll talk about it at some point. And it's been, it's been on my list literally probably since October, you know, so what, what day is it today? So yeah, seven months. So that just gives you a rough idea how old some of these things are. But anyhow, so don't hate the addict or alcoholic, hate the disease. How do you feel about that? Back to you, Mike.

Mike (33:55.182)
Hehehehe

Mike (34:00.494)
Okay. Mm -hmm.

Mike (34:12.91)
Well, thanks, Bill. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's not one of my favorites, but I, yeah, you know, I'll write because don't hate the person and don't hate the things that they have done because they were in the grips of their addiction or disease. Right. Yeah. We've done some horrible things because we were.

Bill (34:24.11)
Hahaha.

Mike (34:43.166)
Yeah, you know, right. It's it's not generally. It's we're, you know, not really bad people were just, you know, sick, which is another way to say it. Right. So don't hate the person hate the fact that they have the disease and but, you know, don't hate. Yeah. Don't be a hater, man. Right.

Bill (35:08.182)
Don't be a hater, man.

Mike (35:13.038)
You know, hate's bad. I mean, yeah, the disease is the disease. It doesn't have feelings. It's not a person. Why would you hate it? It's it's why would you know? Right. Like fuck cancer. OK, well, cancer is cancer. It doesn't really give a shit whether you hate it or not. Right. Addiction doesn't really give a fuck how you feel about it because it doesn't.

Bill (35:33.55)
Hehehehe

Mike (35:41.838)
doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it just is. Yeah, you know, do I wish I didn't have this disease, I suppose. But then again, you know, you hear in the rooms a lot too, you know, I'm grateful I'm an alcoholic because I found this new way of living that I wouldn't have found without being sick. So, eh, you know, I hate, I don't hate anything anymore. I dislike a lot of things.

Bill (36:07.318)
Right.

Mike (36:09.71)
I have contempt for a few things, but I don't hate anything.

Bill (36:12.174)
Yeah. So, and I, that's exactly what I was going to say. I'm like, okay, can we have contempt for it? So thank you. You brought that up because maybe that would be a better, you know, better mindset. I agree with you. It's, you know, hating a, in, in, yes. Wait, can you say that again? Yes. or, or thing or concept, you know, or, or item, whatever it is, it's, it's fucking pointless, you know? but.

Mike (36:27.95)
inanimate.

Object. Right. Right.

Bill (36:40.654)
As you were saying that, you know, yeah, so, yeah, we don't want to, you know, dislike an individual or have contempt for the individual. It's like, okay, they're, you know, that because of this disease and this and that, all these different things. However, it made me think about in the beginning though, is that I know I had to be really careful not to, not to use that as a crutch, you know, and basically saying to people, well, I was drunk when I did that. So, yeah.

Mike (37:01.55)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (37:07.406)
So forgive me. Right. Yes.

Bill (37:09.582)
Let's not talk about, yes, no, not even forgive me, because that wasn't me. That was over there. And so I had to be careful of that being like, and I joke, I did it on purpose. I would joke with people. People would say, do you remember that? Or did you do something like, I don't remember anything like that. I must have been drunk. Whatever it is, a bad thing, something I don't remember, something I didn't do properly, must have been drunk. And somebody's like, that was like three years ago.

Mike (37:17.582)
Right.

Mike (37:29.966)
Right. Yeah.

Bill (37:39.182)
Yeah, okay. Alcoholic thinking that whatever it was, I don't know. But no, and I get the concept. It was just something that I don't know that we've ever really specifically talked about that. But yeah, I mean, that's that is the mindset. It's the it's the disease. It's not the necessarily the individual, but we have to take responsibility for ourselves. We can't we can't just kick back and be like, that was the disease. You can't.

Mike (37:39.598)
Hehehehehe

Mike (37:57.294)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (38:00.846)
absolutely.

Mike (38:05.902)
-huh.

Bill (38:06.222)
You can't hold me responsible. yes, we can. Right.

Mike (38:09.678)
Yes. So of course we better hold yourself responsible. That's the whole point of, you know, one of the big points of this thing is taking responsibility, even though, yes, it was, it was, it was the heroin talking. It was the vodka talking. It was no, it was fucking me talking. I just happened to be on heroin or drunk. yeah, right. Exactly. Now.

Bill (38:22.858)
Hehehehe

Bill (38:32.686)
It was just the enhanced version of me.

Mike (38:36.11)
Yeah, which we've talked about plenty too, right? I'm a liar, cheat and thief. I just got, I was just more of that because of that, but right. Yeah. And, but yeah.

Bill (38:49.006)
Yeah. So, I think that's, I mean, I, again, I got, I got plenty more things on here, but, yeah, I mean, I can, I'll tell you the, just the, the thing about when I, when I said the attic thing. So the, just real quick, the router is up at the attic here. What, because when I got here, I saw a cable because a guy, I asked these fucking questions before I, you know, when I started doing this traveling, I need to plug in my, my computer, my work computer. It's not wifi enabled. Even if it was, they don't want us.

Mike (39:04.43)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (39:10.638)
Sure.

Bill (39:17.806)
You know, because we're on the phone, this and that, they want us to have an ethernet plug -in, so I have to have it. So I ask that question, is there a modem or router in place? Yes, there is, perfect. So I come in here and I'm looking, you know, the guy's like at one point in one of the messages, like, yeah, as long as you got a long enough cable to run it out of the closet. So I just thought they had like on a shelf in the closet. So I open the closet, there's a cable with no fucking router. And I'm like, so I climb up on a chair and there's no ladder going up into this attic thing. And there's like this shelf, like two shelves in there. So I'm.

Mike (39:35.758)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (39:46.446)
I look up and the router's like in the middle of this attic. It's a small, it's a small house. It's not like it was, you know, not like your house on the other end, but I'm like, what the fuck man? Cause I'm like, I need to be able to restart this thing every day. You know, and I could already tell, literally I could tell on my phone, the internet was running slow. You know, it's like my phone's loading slow and I'm like, fuck me. So I crawl up there and get up there and getting down. That's the tough part. There's no ladder and there's a shelf and this and that. I scraped the living fuck out of my elbow coming down. I had to go up there twice.

Mike (39:50.99)
Mm -hmm.

Bill (40:16.17)
Just a quick side note, I'm 55 years old. I have no business doing that and I could have hurt myself. But I'm like, I gotta get up there. I gotta do this shit. I need to get up there. You know, thankfully there's the kitchen and the table in the kitchen's high top and high top chairs, that wooden chairs so I could stand on them and that's how I get up there but.

Mike (40:25.998)
Right. huh.

Bill (40:42.222)
Yeah, so I ended up rearranging it, unplugged this and rearrange all this different shit. So now all I have to do is stand on a chair, open up the trap door and I can actually reach up and unplug, unplug the router so I could restart it. It was a fucking mess. But, yeah, like I said, when, like in the beginning, we talked about, you know, when you're like, who fancy? Not really. It's, it's nice. It's comfortable ish. I am irritated about that. The fact that I could hear the next door neighbor. I don't like that. a couple of other little minor things and.

But you know what, here's the thing that I, and even today, I was telling myself, I'm like, okay, so here's the deal. Not really happy about a couple of these little things, but since I left Cleveland, you know, because it was cold, still coldish when I was up by you. I haven't had long pants on in two weeks. It's fucking beautiful. It hasn't been below any place I've been in the last two weeks. It hasn't been below 80 degrees. It's sunny, it's beautiful. I'm by...

Mike (41:25.87)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mike (41:31.406)
Hehehehehe

Bill (41:40.942)
this bay, I'm going to go stare at the fucking Gulf of Mexico tomorrow. you know, so, and I'm just, again, everything is not, it's not this perfect, whatever area. It's kind of like trailer park ish stuff around here. It's not a bad neighborhood. There's some nice homes and some trash homes, you know? but you know, it's not the nicest place, but I try, what I'm looking at is like all this other shit I get to experience, you know? So that's what I'm again.

Mike (41:58.51)
Bye.

Mike (42:08.174)
huh.

Bill (42:09.998)
trying to look at the positive part. Because I could easily sit in here and stew about the fact that I hear this guy clear his throat, whatever the deal, and I'm recording in a fucking bathroom so I could have a little bit, so I could just be myself while we're doing this. But fuck it, all that doesn't really matter. It just kind of is what it is. So.

Mike (42:18.414)
So, so, so, so.

Mike (42:26.158)
No, absolutely. Yeah. Well, bring it all back around in the moment. You can sit there and focus, right. You can focus on the bad shit or you can look for the good. And if you look for the good, you find the good and then shit's pretty good. Right. Or you can focus on the bad and then those all bad and then you fucking feel like shit and life is bad. Why the hell would you want to live like that, man?

Bill (42:30.926)
The moment I'm

Bill (42:41.358)
Right. we're -

Bill (42:46.382)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah. I know. And that's the thing, man. I still, I, all of us do, I know, but I, it's, it's weird that we have to, you know, consciously wrestle with it, but I could, I still have the ability to, I could sit here and fucking stew over all this different shit. I know I can, I can fall into it really easily. last thing real quick. The traffic around here is fucking crazy. I went, I went shopping on Sunday, went up to, there was a Kroger up there, up at, there was an Aldi, there's Walmart.

Mike (43:00.142)
He -heh.

Mike (43:04.526)
yeah.

Mike (43:12.398)
Mmm.

Bill (43:18.222)
I went all around these different areas, kicking around, not a problem. I go out today and I was, you know, again, getting stuff settled, finishing up my laundry. And I head out and go down this one road, because I went up to Kroger, I almost ran out of coffee. So I'm like, I'll go get a pound of coffee, grab my pizza. I got stuck in this traffic on this road going up to Kroger. Rather than taking me 10 minutes, it took me like 20 plus minutes to get up there. And then coming back the same thing, I'm like, what the fuck?

I'm like where are all these fucking cars coming from? It's crazy, you know? So, I know. Fuck it, fuck, don't people know what I gotta do? I gotta get back here and eat my pizza and whatever, so. All right, you know what? I don't know about you, but I think I'm fucking done. You're done?

Mike (43:51.502)
Yeah, people getting in our way, man. Bastards.

That's right.

Mike (44:06.126)
yeah, I was done an hour and a half ago.

Bill (44:08.97)
Alright, so well, do your thing there, Mike.

Mike (44:13.774)
All right, well, thank you, everyone, for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. As always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it. Guess what, kids? It's time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream that impossible dream.

and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (44:45.166)
Like some fucking late night, what am I thinking of? I don't know some late night. I don't know. Yeah. I kind of like that and and everyone join us next week our buddy Gary's coming on so yeah, so Gary Gary's coming up next week, but yeah, it's this has been it's been a slice I guess slices something but yeah some technology and

Mike (44:53.422)
Venus flytrap. Hello my children.

Mike (45:04.59)
Yeah!

Mike (45:12.59)
Slice of something. Slice off your elbow.

Bill (45:15.79)
Yeah, yeah, like I did. It's kind of fucked up, but it's all right. It's okay, man. I lived I did all right, man. I love you, brother Bye

Mike (45:19.414)
You did!

Love you too. Bye.