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This week we have those guys. Yeah those two guys. Mike and Bill.
Mike started off with his reading and it was about order. The fact that we had no order in our lives before and sobriety allows us to have just a little but now. It was a good talk.
Then our friend Gary had emailed us regarding the question that we had about relationships surviving when a person gets sober. Gary and his husband survived and we shared their story.
A Riverside update, rock bottom, happiest cities, gifts of recovery, not being good enough and finally choices and consequences.
We had some fun and maybe you will too.
Enjoy the episode.
Visit us
Podcast www.sobernotmature.com
Store www.sobernotmatureshop.com
00:00:02.79
Bill
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And um this Thursday night recording thing is getting to be be a habit, huh?
00:00:13.75
Mike
That's not one that I want Mm
00:00:17.04
Bill
Yeah, you know what? And I was thinking about the same thing. It's not that bad, but you know again, yeah I get done with work, you get done with work, we both rush, this and that.
00:00:23.39
Mike
-hmm
00:00:25.29
Bill
Same deal, it doesn't seem like, it seems like an hour you know for me between 5 p.m. and 6 p.m., which is when we're recording my time,
00:00:32.69
Mike
Right,
00:00:32.95
Bill
um you know, would be longer, but it's not. yeah Just not a lot of time.
00:00:35.38
Mike
oh No
00:00:37.96
Bill
But but once again, I mean, when when we've done it, obviously last week was we had John on, which again, thank you, John, for coming on. That was so that was a lot of fun.
00:00:46.88
Mike
yep
00:00:47.51
Bill
and um But then the two weeks prior with Founders Day and whatever it was the the week before we did that, it's always good reason. And tomorrow you're telling stories. So that's why we're doing it tonight.
00:00:57.76
Mike
Yep All right, yes, I'm going into a church basement and lying Mmm,
00:01:04.89
Bill
Well, if you talk longer than 20 minutes, but at that meeting, ah you can, you can talk for 30.
00:01:08.14
Mike
right You can talk for 30, right?
00:01:09.89
Bill
So youve you got, you got 10 minutes of lies.
00:01:16.65
Mike
Yeah, I I don't think I'll be telling any lies in that room now, but take me out back and beat the hell out of me Yep Mm-hmm Yes Hold school hardcore what?
00:01:20.33
Bill
Right. No, not, not at all. Yeah. And, uh, and where he, where he's leading it's a, it's our old home group, which is, who do you know? We talk about it all the time. It's the. Hold school, old school kind of, I was gonna say hardcore old school and I said hold, hold school.
00:01:38.72
Bill
yeah right yeah It's it's something something old school, something hardcore, I guess, but in in in the best possible way.
00:01:43.67
Mike
It is. It is both.
00:01:47.02
Bill
but
00:01:47.41
Mike
Yep.
00:01:48.02
Bill
Yeah, though those guys have literally known us since, God, the first couple of weeks. I went there a week two. I figured that part out.
00:01:54.10
Mike
Yeah, so did I.
00:01:55.47
Bill
Oh yeah. Okay. So yeah, we've been, yeah, you and I with, uh, with few exceptions.
00:01:56.56
Mike
Yeah.
00:01:59.38
Bill
I mean, that first what shit 90 days were there all the time, you know? So, and then first.
00:02:02.56
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah. and Well, first several years.
00:02:05.91
Bill
Right. Exactly. Yeah. And.
00:02:07.36
Mike
Yeah. You know, I mean, yeah, that first Friday, I went out with Dominic to a, uh, I'm eating out in Avon Lake where there was, I called it Cougarville. There was a bunch of hot older woodmen in there. It was, hey, I could do this recovery thing.
00:02:18.34
Bill
ha
00:02:21.68
Bill
yeah
00:02:22.10
Mike
fat
00:02:23.66
Bill
I wonder if that was um also where we went, because we went to Avon Lake that New Year's Eve. that we Was it?
00:02:29.44
Mike
no, Bay Village, I don't know. It was someplace out that way west. One of the hoity-toity suburbs of that meeting. um Yeah. Anyway, but yes, there were a lot of attractive women there that were definitely over 40, but it was nice. It was nice, you know.
00:02:50.84
Bill
Right. And then you, then you, then you found the men's meeting and, uh,
00:02:53.50
Mike
And then I went, yeah, I probably shouldn't show up there too often because I was really distracted.
00:03:00.23
Bill
Yeah. And that's, uh, that that's for sure. And well, I know, I know we've talked about it at least once, if not twice, that one time when that fucking smoking hot chick walked into who do you know?
00:03:11.87
Mike
Yes, I remember She was I it was it was kind of Auburn Mm
00:03:13.09
Bill
Oh, can I remember what color hair she had, but, uh, she had really was it. Okay. But I know she had short jean shorts on and walked all the way down, you know, walk down the stairs.
00:03:23.55
Mike
-hmm
00:03:26.05
Bill
Nobody saw her. And then she walked down the, down the aisle. So in front of every one of the guys and everyone, you could have just, you know, heard a fucking pin drop in there.
00:03:29.85
Mike
Right. Right.
00:03:35.14
Bill
And then she walks up to the table. So everyone was just fucking staring, staring at her ass. And she's like, um Is this just the men's meeting? Yeah, you're gonna have to go someplace else. We're like, no, no, you could stay, you could stay.
00:03:49.94
Mike
Nope.
00:03:50.51
Bill
Yeah, but that didn't work that way. and You know what, whatever, it's for probably for the best one way or the other, but for her, I was gonna say it was the best for her.
00:03:56.49
Mike
ah For everyone involved, yes, exactly.
00:04:01.34
Bill
yeah it Her sobriety could have been jeopardized just by hanging out with this bunch of fucking newbies in there.
00:04:06.87
Mike
We'd have certainly tried.
00:04:08.24
Bill
Yeah, exactly, exactly. so All right, but yeah. Um, so good reason that we're recording on a Thursday, not that it fucking matters, but, um, you know, for everyone else, but I just, I thought about it and I'm like, like, okay, and this Thursday is being a, being a thing.
00:04:12.59
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:04:20.53
Bill
But yeah, to your point, by the time all said and done, I mean, I don't have to get the episode all put together.
00:04:20.83
Mike
Hmm.
00:04:25.25
Bill
So it's not like it takes me all night, but, but still by the time all said and done, it's, you know, it's for a work night gets kind of fucking late, right?
00:04:27.31
Mike
Right.
00:04:30.99
Mike
Mm hmm. Yes.
00:04:33.50
Bill
So I guess, uh, maybe, maybe we should just get right to it, Mike. What do you think?
00:04:38.08
Mike
All right, let me do a reading sure why not.
00:04:40.26
Bill
Yeah. Back to you, Mike.
00:04:42.27
Mike
Yeah. Well, I think spill That's why hi a Anyway, um, this was actually today's from keep it simple I liked it and I went yeah hell I'm gonna use it tonight.
00:04:45.28
Bill
I don't know why they that makes me fucking laugh every goddamn time. It's so stupid. Just dumb. I know. it just Just dumb.
00:05:01.55
Mike
So I am here it is June 20th from keep it simple Order is heaven's first law. Shit. I forgot to look up this guy, but anyway, Alexander Pope. I don't know who that is. Uh, let's see. Uh, we need order in our lives. It makes life simpler for us. Life without order would be like driving in a large city without traffic signals. Our lives as addicts were like this was our our lives as addicts were like this was like this were like this. Okay. Uh, we lived with no plan and no order.
00:05:37.51
Mike
Now that we're sober, we can put some order in our lives. We can get up every morning. We can make our beds and be on time for work. These little things make life so much easier and nicer. We need this order. It allows us to depend on ourselves. Uh, we now look at the 12 steps to bring order to our lives. The steps follow each other as summer follows spring. Do I allow myself to follow the natural order or do I still fight it? Prayer for the day, higher power, you've put order in this world. Please help me create order in my life. Let me flow within this order instead of being on my own. Action for the day, which we probably won't do. ah These 12 steps have a natural order.
00:06:29.69
Mike
Today, I'll take time to read each step and think about the order found in it.
00:06:35.71
Bill
You know, it's funny is when I read that this morning, because again, both Mike and I read read that that same reading that keep it simple. First of all, I mean, I liked it. I thought it was good. I mean, nice analogy, especially about like driving through a city with no traffic signals. I mean, it's same deal.
00:06:49.76
Mike
Right.
00:06:50.93
Bill
I always talk about I'm extremely visual and it kind of put me right in that I guess in that whole mindset you know
00:06:57.50
Mike
right
00:06:57.53
Bill
um But that last part, I i almost copied that because I'm like, yeah we're recording tonight. I wonder if I should ask Mike about that. like did you yeah did you did you go Did you read each one of the steps? And you know what does it say? Figure out the order or follow the order.
00:07:11.72
Mike
Find find the order in each step, right?
00:07:14.43
Bill
yeah
00:07:15.70
Mike
Oh, no, I did not Mm
00:07:18.18
Bill
Well, and I think we were given in order some years ago, probably about 14, some years ago, and the order was do them one at a time and do them in the order that they're provided to you.
00:07:24.58
Mike
-hmm Right
00:07:31.40
Bill
So when that's the reason I was thinking about writing that down because I'm like, it was almost, yeah again, speaking of, a think about something dumb. I'm like, that's dumb. I mean, the they're it's one through 12.
00:07:41.94
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:07:41.94
Bill
They're in order for a reason. I don't have to fucking think about it, you know?
00:07:43.49
Mike
Right. Hmm. Yes. But as good alcoholics and addicts, we like to do things our own way. Right. So, you know, we do one and then we jump right to 12. I'm going to start being of service.
00:07:57.87
Bill
Right, right.
00:07:58.77
Mike
Right.
00:07:59.00
Bill
And you know, and we, and we talked about that too, though, that I mean, technically, when it comes down to it, I mean, even, even from day, you know, day one, I mean, we're, we're taught to be, you know, of service.
00:07:59.21
Mike
And.
00:08:09.62
Bill
So we're taught step 12, we're taught about step 10, we're taught about, you know, not saying that this is step 10, but, you know, kind of recapping our day and doing all those different things.
00:08:09.80
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:08:18.58
Mike
Right.
00:08:18.61
Bill
And you know the I think the biggest thing that you know we're we're told to shy away from is, yeah, don't rush out there on you know day 17 and try to make amends to somebody, because you're going to fuck it up.
00:08:28.19
Mike
Right.
00:08:31.30
Bill
but But yeah, you're right. You're right. I mean, we yeah, we tend to to want to take things out of order. It's like, I don't need this. I'm going to go work on this for a little bit and you know kind of and lounge over here for a little while.
00:08:38.56
Mike
Right.
00:08:40.91
Bill
So yeah, good point. Good point. but um There's a couple of things that I wrote down and obviously need order and the way we used to be, we had no plan and no order.
00:08:51.30
Mike
Mhm.
00:08:51.62
Bill
um I wrote on making the bed and being on time, I'll come back to that. But then um getting to the point where we're depending on ourselves and then fighting the order is pretty much what you were just talking about that you know kind of fighting that the whole, I think order in general, not order of the steps necessarily, but you know kind of fighting the man as they say.
00:08:54.91
Mike
Right.
00:09:02.14
Mike
Mhm.
00:09:10.63
Mike
Right.
00:09:10.74
Bill
So so maybe let's start there. did when you Let's say this time around, because I mean, this has been, you know, so far to this day, your successful time, right?
00:09:15.88
Mike
Mhm.
00:09:20.59
Bill
um Did you come in right away and feel like you were, I don't know, fighting back, fighting the the general order of, you know, I don't even know how to put it, you know, were you fighting it all or resisting it all, do you think?
00:09:34.69
Mike
Um, no, not, not this time, uh, which is probably why I'm successful with it.
00:09:41.52
Bill
yeah
00:09:41.66
Mike
Um, right. Uh, no, I mean, you know, ah clearly we've talked about it ad nauseam on here that, you know, I was concerned about the higher power aspect of the program, but, um, But no, I mean, I was, I was beat up. I was done. I was, I wanted to do whatever these people told me to do. Um, cause clearly they had something figured out that I didn't. Um, so yeah, you know, I was ready for it, but yeah, uh, you know, and and again, early on, man, you know, that surrender was, uh, drilled into our heads pretty, pretty heavily of, you know, stop fighting, man.
00:10:06.51
Bill
Right.
00:10:21.55
Mike
Um, and, and I've talked about it on here, you know, I, I had my leads with, if you're struggling, if you're new and you're struggling or you're not so new and you're struggling, you know, stop. Uh, cause struggle is just another word for a flight.
00:10:30.61
Bill
Right.
00:10:34.33
Mike
And if you haven't figured out, you can't win. You haven't done the first step properly. And yeah, you know, I can't fucking win. So I'm not, so why am I going to waste my time trying to fight something that I know I can't win?
00:10:43.26
Bill
Right.
00:10:49.54
Bill
right. You know what it is kind of funny because it is is, I don't know, no better way to put it is is pissy and as much of a fucking dick that I was when I, you know, when I first came in, um it it kind of surprises me that I didn't, I didn't push back more and I didn't fight back more.
00:11:06.09
Mike
Right.
00:11:06.75
Bill
You know, but in in this I've talked about, but it it's still it it turned out to be, you know, my, my stubbornness turned out to be like my biggest savior, I guess, if you want to put it that way, because
00:11:15.65
Mike
right
00:11:16.27
Bill
My thought pattern was fine. Fuck it. You know, i I'll hang out here for 30 days or 90 days or whatever it was That's as far as I could comprehend in my head, you know, and I'm like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say a fucking word you you fucker in this all of this is in my head You know, I didn't say this to anyone but you know, you fuckers can talk to me.
00:11:21.43
Mike
so Right.
00:11:30.76
Mike
sure Sure.
00:11:34.60
Bill
I'm just gonna cross my arms I'm gonna just listen. I'm not saying a fucking word And yeah, you know we we laugh at it now because literally that's exactly what I should have done and
00:11:38.54
Mike
he
00:11:45.64
Mike
Right.
00:11:46.43
Bill
that I didn't know any better, you know?
00:11:47.76
Mike
mrs Yeah, right. Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. Right.
00:11:51.81
Bill
Right, right.
00:11:52.34
Mike
Sit down, shut up and listen. Yes.
00:11:54.62
Bill
right and And you know what, maybe that's why, and I've said this before, but maybe that's why I don't really remember anyone just like putting their finger on my chest and telling me to sit down and shut up because I was just doing that.
00:12:05.20
Mike
Mmhmm.
00:12:05.95
Bill
you know I was just being a you know like ah like a sheep, just kind of walking around, following the crowd and doing whatever.
00:12:06.39
Mike
Right.
00:12:11.49
Bill
And um you know i mean basically not trying to be a a good boy, I was just...
00:12:16.74
Mike
Mmhmm.
00:12:17.32
Bill
I was fucking irritated. I'm like, fuck you all.
00:12:19.63
Mike
Right.
00:12:20.08
Bill
I'm not doing anything.
00:12:21.18
Mike
Mmhmm.
00:12:21.52
Bill
But listen, yeah which but still kind of cracks me up.
00:12:22.98
Mike
a
00:12:26.13
Bill
at And I don't know why I thought about this the other day, but it just popped into my head again when I said follow the crowd. So I think it was it had to have been the first um kind had it been the first morning that i that I was there when we were when we were eating. um
00:12:41.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:12:42.03
Bill
And you know everyone, you know we talked about this, the food comes out, you got a fucking wolf down your your food and then you know everyone cleans up and you're done.
00:12:48.13
Mike
Right.
00:12:50.08
Bill
Well, you know basically Vince, you know our our buddy Vince that we've talked about was was there and he was a house father at the time.
00:12:51.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:12:55.72
Bill
And he's kind of guiding me around and showing me where to go.
00:12:56.08
Mike
Right.
00:12:58.63
Bill
And it had to have been, I'm guessing lunch. i don't I don't fucking know. I don't think we had breakfast back then, but at ah whatever the case was, I ate whatever I had and then i was I was still hungry.
00:13:07.18
Mike
Mm.
00:13:09.28
Bill
so i I walked up to the buffet table because that's what it looked like to me and just fucking and I'm just standing behind there dishing up some more food and Vince gets because all everyone's you know I pay attention until after the fact that people are looking at me then Vince comes up he's like what are you doing I'm just getting some more food he's like he's like dude you can't do that come here get it before Marty sees you
00:13:13.95
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.
00:13:30.37
Mike
Right.
00:13:32.46
Bill
And actually, you know what? but Come to think, I don't even know if Marty was there, but he might not have been there that day, but either way, um I didn't fucking know any better.
00:13:37.01
Mike
isn
00:13:38.76
Bill
I wasn't in i wasn't trying to be you know to fight the order or go out of it.
00:13:39.30
Mike
right
00:13:43.88
Bill
I just i was fucking hungry, man.
00:13:43.95
Mike
Mm-hmm
00:13:46.33
Bill
I hadn't eaten you know well in probably a year.
00:13:49.17
Mike
Sure Uh
00:13:49.61
Bill
yeah So I'm like, yeah, this is kind of some good shit. I think I'm gonna eat some more. No, you're not.
00:13:53.67
Mike
-huh the buffet table No, it is that's all you can eat
00:13:55.53
Bill
Yeah, no, you're not. That's what it looked, that's exactly in my head, what it but it made me think of. I'm like, oh, it's an all you can eat buffet. I'm just going to walk back up there. yeah
00:14:08.37
Mike
sixty
00:14:08.48
Bill
right You know, that's a great way to put it here. Here's your plate. This is all you are allowed to eat. and You need to do it fucking quickly, very quickly.
00:14:13.81
Mike
Mm hmm. That's right.
00:14:17.45
Bill
Yeah. And then whatever, I dunno, every time Marty served up something, it's like, I, you know, that I remember early to just be like, I only want one of the, he put two of whatever it is.
00:14:25.31
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:14:27.10
Bill
Just one scoop. He put two. So he's like, it's like, we gotta put some, put some fucking weight on you.
00:14:32.01
Mike
Right.
00:14:32.12
Bill
And I mean, when I went in there, I think I was 160 pounds or something like that, you know?
00:14:35.79
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:14:36.91
Bill
So you got to figure 25, 25 pounds less than I am now. And I'm, I'm finished. I got a little bit of a, a little bit of a belly on me these days, but you know, nothing major, you know, but still, I mean, take 25 pounds off of this.
00:14:43.91
Mike
Right.
00:14:48.49
Bill
I mean, it just, I wasn't very healthy.
00:14:48.64
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm hmm.
00:14:53.50
Bill
But um yeah, it was, I don't know, that just reminded me of that. But um okay, so to start out with, ah we need order. Obviously we know that, but you know to begin with, we had no plan and no order. I i think that's pretty accurate.
00:15:07.10
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:15:09.04
Bill
you know At least for me, when i before I got sober, i i I mean, my plan was like, well, whatever happens happens type of thing. um And there wasn't there was some mild order to my life, but there certainly wasn't much, right?
00:15:21.75
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:15:23.11
Bill
yeah
00:15:23.16
Mike
Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, ah my favorite thing in it is we can depend on ourselves when we have this order in our lives, which is kind of nice because God knows I couldn't depend on myself before um to do anything except get loaded.
00:15:29.36
Bill
Right.
00:15:36.71
Bill
Right.
00:15:40.83
Mike
You know, and hell, half the time I couldn't even depend on myself to that. at You know, I had to, yeah.
00:15:47.50
Bill
yeah
00:15:48.19
Mike
Yeah. Right. Live, rob and cheat other people to get myself loaded. Yay.
00:15:54.71
Bill
Right. ah He's such a fuck up, he can't even get get himself fucked up.
00:15:58.35
Mike
Right.
00:15:59.91
Bill
But yeah, that was actually one of the things I wrote down, because I like that, yeah depending on ourselves. And I mean, and in general, the the cool part about I think that is and in what we've talked about previously is that, I mean, we can depend on ourselves, but we know that we don't have to you know just depend on ourselves, which is which is comforting.
00:16:13.44
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:16:16.04
Bill
you know it's ah it said It's a true comfort.
00:16:16.80
Mike
Oh, absolutely.
00:16:18.65
Bill
It's a it's a well, um I don't know, a well needed, and I'm glad I have that, you know that crutch in my back pocket that,
00:16:23.18
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:16:26.18
Bill
um And it's not even it's not even a crutch. It's just ah it's additional help whenever I need it. It's not if it's gonna be when um Yeah, I mean I I know I'm gonna show up.
00:16:32.70
Mike
Right.
00:16:35.23
Bill
I know I'm gonna take care of myself I know I'm not gonna at least try to hurt myself today You know and and yeah depending on ourselves to you know To to be healthy and to be good to others and all those sort of things And then you know something as simple as like it was right in there, you know making our bed and being on time What a what a concept, right?
00:16:38.04
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:16:46.13
Mike
Right.
00:16:50.80
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:16:55.39
Mike
Right. Yeah, absolutely. You know, yeah. Make my, you know, I mean, I used to talk about it in group all the time, you know, then I, when I was on the road, man, and I had that bunk in the back. I mean, that fucker was made up every day because, you know, nobody saw it.
00:17:07.38
Bill
Right.
00:17:09.34
Mike
Nobody a knew, but I knew I, I woke up and I, I made that bunk up. So it was done. Um, you know and whatever, you know, yeah, nobody's gonna see it and 12 13 14 hours later I was gonna crawl back into it and mess it up again But so what you know, I started my day by accomplishing something having order Yes
00:17:30.83
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's ah this last place that I stayed in, in Oshkosh. And, you know, there' there's certain places where you have the, they'll have ah an Airbnb, they'll have house rules.
00:17:41.83
Mike
the
00:17:41.87
Bill
And it's like the, you know, certain things that you can and cannot do or certain things they want you to do, especially when you're when you're checking out as far as, um you know, if there's a dishwasher, what to do with the towels, beds, that sort of thing.
00:17:47.94
Mike
right yep
00:17:53.08
Bill
You know, so um same thing, you know, this place, like any beds that you use, cause it was, it was two bedrooms. um I didn't even really go in the other one, but just like whatever bed you use, just leave it unmade so we know which one to do it.
00:17:58.38
Mike
mhm mhm
00:18:05.16
Bill
Same deal. I get up in the morning, I made my bed and I unmade it, but I, but again, again, the hotel fold, I folded it down.
00:18:06.32
Mike
yup mhm mhm
00:18:13.08
Bill
I put all the pillows back on the bed and there was like, Um, this comforter that was draped over it when I first got there, which I just fold it up and, you know, set next to the bed.
00:18:21.61
Mike
Right.
00:18:21.79
Bill
But I put that back on there, you know, and you can clearly tell that that's, that's the bed that I slept in, but I'm like, I have to, and I was laughing to myself because I, you know, I told, I mentioned that on here, whatever it was, but.
00:18:23.42
Mike
Yeah.
00:18:26.67
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:18:32.68
Bill
Um, I can't, I can't not make the bed, even though I'm told leave it on me and so we can wash the sheets and whatever.
00:18:36.39
Mike
Right.
00:18:39.01
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:18:39.34
Bill
I'm like, I can't not make it.
00:18:41.28
Mike
Right.
00:18:42.14
Bill
It's just, there was one, I can't remember the place I stayed in that said to, um, strip the sheets off the bed. I did the same thing, you know?
00:18:47.97
Mike
Yeah. That's what we, yeah, when we were in Myrtle beach, that was the same thing, stripped the bed down, all the sheets of stuff. And, and and we did that. And then I took the bedspread and put it back on the bed. so
00:19:00.67
Bill
and i And I think I just did, wherever I was when I did that, I think I just did the same thing. The bedspread and then put it up and then fold it over a couple of times. So it's just like towards the bottom type of thing. But um but yeah, it just, it it is.
00:19:09.79
Mike
Right.
00:19:12.34
Bill
It's, you know, like like you said, and to begin with, I don't remember people telling us that we were accomplishing something. I do remember at some point, you've talked about it quite a few times on here, but um it it is.
00:19:19.73
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:19:23.56
Bill
I mean, it's right, right away first thing in the morning, you know, your feet hit the floor, you get your ass out of bed and you and you've accomplished something just by, you know, straightening up your, you know, your area, you know, and same thing in the Keating Center.
00:19:26.33
Mike
Yeah.
00:19:32.76
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:19:34.89
Bill
let and You used to always say that, you know, at least you don't have to look at the other, you know, some, some guy doesn't have to look at your fucking mess, you know,
00:19:35.78
Mike
Oh, yeah.
00:19:41.29
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's that's it, man. Keep your shit together so somebody else doesn't have to look at your mess. Yes.
00:19:47.80
Bill
ah right and you know that that goes along the lines of you know they were teaching us how to do things for other people while we were doing something for ourselves just you know again it's a it's all fucking karate kid mr.
00:19:56.45
Mike
Yep, yep.
00:20:03.41
Bill
Miyagi shit that they taught us there and it it really is what does this mean wax the car
00:20:04.19
Mike
It is.
00:20:09.58
Mike
Wax the car, wax on, wax off.
00:20:10.57
Bill
Watch the windows. Why am I doing this? Scrub the patio, you know, whatever the fucking deal was.
00:20:15.39
Mike
Uh-huh, right.
00:20:17.89
Bill
It just, yeah, it all comes into play. But yeah, I really like keep it simple. I mean, I love God grant me, but keep it simple is definitely a close second for me.
00:20:30.62
Mike
Right.
00:20:30.63
Bill
And I look forward to those. And the 24 hour book, I don't know if you've noticed over the last few days, but holy Christ, has there been a lot of God in those three years.
00:20:39.15
Mike
e Yeah.
00:20:40.57
Bill
I'm just like jesus god like god holy holy god god Right, which again is fine.
00:20:45.11
Mike
Right. Holy unfucked mother of God.
00:20:51.08
Bill
I mean i'm not opposed to it It's not like i'm gonna stop reading it, but it's it's I don't know.
00:20:54.12
Mike
Right.
00:20:55.98
Bill
Is it fucked up that I notice it? I I just I every time every time right
00:20:59.95
Mike
Yeah. I mean, it ebbs and flows, but yeah, we we've talked about it before. Yes. The 24 hour book is very religious and it's very, you know, it's written by a Catholic guy, all, you know, which is fine.
00:21:05.94
Bill
right
00:21:09.77
Mike
You know, nothing wrong with that. I suppose. Uh huh.
00:21:13.78
Bill
I love your, I always love your little side note. Nothing wrong with it I suppose.
00:21:17.66
Mike
Right. But, um, yes, but yeah, it leads towards that and that's, that's fine. You know, the, the sediments in there, you maybe have to dig a little bit harder, but that's, you know, fine.
00:21:22.71
Bill
Right.
00:21:28.91
Mike
Okay. So I have to work a little harder to find a decent message that applies to me in this book. Cool.
00:21:34.58
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's, so again, that's a, I start off with it every morning. I would, that's the one that I would, I would never think of, um, you know, setting aside or putting away definitely the, well, now the three, I mean the, the, my three staples, you know, 24 hour book, God grant me and then, you know, keep it simple.
00:21:39.86
Mike
Right.
00:21:44.68
Mike
right
00:21:52.33
Mike
Mhm.
00:21:52.56
Bill
Um, I there's no way in the world. I would think about setting those three aside the other one one day at a time It's a good book and nothing wrong with it And I take a lot of those there's a lot of those excerpts that I that's a fucking weird word obviously excerpts Um pieces of the those readings and post those but um, yeah, it's it's the same setup I don't know what else i'd want to read but uh, yeah i've had those for a while now and
00:21:58.35
Mike
Right.
00:22:04.49
Mike
Excerpts.
00:22:16.56
Bill
I don't know, my whole point is I'm glad that you mixed it up every once in a while, because keep it simple. It's a good book. It has some great readings in itself.
00:22:22.55
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:22:24.47
Bill
So cool. So what else? Anything else on that particular reading?
00:22:28.00
Mike
Yeah, yeah, not at all. I think we covered it.
00:22:30.72
Bill
Okay, cool. um All right, so Gary sent us an email. um about relationships. You remember I brought that up about like relationships and getting through or being in a relationship like before you drank and then staying in a relationship?
00:22:44.61
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:22:46.53
Bill
I don't remember. That was a question I was gonna ask him and he heard that um you know and then wrote an email about it.
00:22:49.59
Mike
Uh huh.
00:22:51.66
Bill
I can go into that in a second.
00:22:52.31
Mike
Okay.
00:22:52.62
Bill
night I got an update on Riverside um and then some other some other stuff.
00:22:55.23
Mike
Hmm.
00:22:57.25
Bill
So what what do you want first, Riverside update or gearys Gary's email?
00:22:59.97
Mike
Uh, let's do Gary's email.
00:23:03.38
Bill
Okay, um give me one second, let me pop in there.
00:23:05.25
Mike
Yeah. All right.
00:23:07.22
Bill
But, um, so, so here's, here's the fun part.
00:23:07.47
Mike
Bill is looking up the email.
00:23:11.78
Bill
And I think, I think at this point, um, I, I hope every everyone knows, you know, who Gary is. Um, we, we talk about the motherfucker enough.
00:23:18.69
Mike
Our number one fan.
00:23:20.00
Bill
Yeah. Gary, ah I don't mean motherfucker at in a bad, bay bad way, but we, we talk about the motherfucker all the time.
00:23:23.00
Mike
Of course not. he Yes.
00:23:26.56
Bill
I hope you guys know who he is.
00:23:28.31
Mike
Right.
00:23:28.32
Bill
Um, but yeah, I mean, he's been just a huge part of, he's become a huge part of our podcast since, um, he came on back, uh, the first time in September.
00:23:32.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:37.16
Bill
And then what was that three weeks ago, a month ago, when we had him on, I was still when I, when we had him on.
00:23:39.50
Mike
Yeah, about a month. Yeah.
00:23:41.96
Bill
So, um, how this came up is that I had a couple of things written down questions that I wanted to ask while Gary was on and.
00:23:48.76
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:49.63
Bill
We got into different tangents and whatever, and didn't get to them all the time.
00:23:51.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. That'll happen.
00:23:55.59
Bill
I mean, hey, by the way, the guys from silver.mature got off on a tangent.
00:23:59.62
Mike
e
00:24:00.13
Bill
Really? That's odd. Let me write that down. Um, but one of the ones was, you know, so Mike and I had been very clear that nobody would, would have wanted us, um, in, at the end of our drinking, which is why we weren't in relationships.
00:24:09.25
Mike
oh Right.
00:24:13.38
Bill
But, um, the biggest question was, is just, you know, how people get through that, get people withstand once. We know a lot of people who have, we know some who haven't, and you know, it could go either way, you know?
00:24:20.05
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.
00:24:24.37
Bill
um but So Gary sent this and his um his husband, and I'm gonna read kind of bits and pieces to get the points of this, but kind of a long email, but that's that's Gary.
00:24:30.12
Mike
Okay. Hmm. Right.
00:24:35.88
Bill
And again, I mean that in a great way. um So he says, my husband and I just celebrated 28 years together.
00:24:37.60
Mike
Yes.
00:24:41.83
Bill
I knew that, but that was on, it was 27, which makes sense, because he said just June 1st.
00:24:45.26
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:24:47.48
Bill
And you were asking in the podcast about being in a relationship with one person getting sober. He said, I know people grow up apart, when one person does that. Thankfully that has not been the case with him and his husband.
00:24:58.44
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:24:58.91
Bill
Now, he said he thinks for several reasons, and I thought these are really good. He said when when they met, which was they were 26, so officially been together more than half their lives, which is kind of cool.
00:25:08.58
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:25:08.75
Bill
um He said his husband is very level-headed and comfortable with who he is and provided stability.
00:25:13.56
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:25:15.32
Bill
Okay, so let's just stop there. So you've got it somebody who, number one, is is not as fucking crazy as you are. you know Maybe Gary wasn't that crazy, but I know I was fucking nuts in the head.
00:25:22.57
Mike
Right.
00:25:25.64
Mike
Oh yeah.
00:25:27.03
Bill
You know so having that point of stability that's number one which provided him stability. um I offered him to let go, party hard, have people, or have met people around, or I'm sorry, and view the world differently, and it worked. Since day one, we both always looked at our relationship as a part-time job, not in a negative way, and they work at it.
00:25:45.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:25:47.13
Bill
um before Before he got sober, he would scream and yell when he was upset with him.
00:25:51.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:25:52.89
Bill
This is Gary, would do that.
00:25:54.71
Mike
Right.
00:25:54.89
Bill
And he would calmly wait, his husband will calmly wait for that to pass, then come and talk and ask what was bothering him.
00:25:58.43
Mike
Hmm.
00:26:02.14
Mike
Right.
00:26:02.24
Bill
Which again, I mean, I've been in some, some fiery relationships and I talked about Dawn and I, and if she ever listens to this, I don't say this in a bad way.
00:26:09.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:26:10.70
Bill
Um, we were, we had a very, and I think you were the, you put it perfectly. You said passion goes both ways.
00:26:16.31
Mike
Right.
00:26:17.68
Bill
And our relationship was like, it was, it was really, really fucking good. Or when it went bad, it got really, really fucking bad.
00:26:24.44
Mike
Right.
00:26:25.06
Bill
And two stubborn people, very passionate people. And we get in, you know, these, these verbal arguments, you know,
00:26:30.65
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:31.77
Bill
um But Gary said that in that way we've learned to talk through anything that comes up in our relationship and we decide together how to move forward.
00:26:36.27
Mike
Hmm.
00:26:38.91
Bill
um Gary says he's always called him his rocket for good reason. um Gary said when he started his sober journey, he was afraid about how much time he would spend in meetings. That comes up a lot.
00:26:47.42
Mike
Right.
00:26:47.84
Bill
When you and I talk about, talk to people doing fellowship and other things in his life that contribute to his sobriety. He asked his husband what he thought, what he thought about what he was doing for his recovery. And this I thought was great. His husband said you are proving to me that you do not want to kill yourself anymore The fact that you want to be healthy just makes me love you even more and I support whatever you need to do that I read that and I'm like fuck me.
00:27:06.06
Mike
Nice. Nice.
00:27:15.37
Bill
That's fucking awesome I mean what what the fuck more could we could we want or or anything like that from anyone, you know?
00:27:15.59
Mike
Yes, it is. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. That's that's great.
00:27:24.39
Bill
Yeah, and then He kind of wraps up here with, I do know that drunk Gary always said, or I'm sorry, hang on one second. Oh, he's never tried to save me or be an enabler before I got sober. And that's why I think it still works that I am sober.
00:27:37.37
Mike
Uh huh.
00:27:39.43
Bill
I know that drunk Gary always said yes, as long as I could keep drinking and using, ah but sober Gary says, no, that took Nick a while to understand and accept in a good way.
00:27:47.18
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:27:48.39
Bill
We continue to check in with each other. And I think um he is learning that his sober friends can be his best friends as well. Okay.
00:27:55.23
Mike
Nice.
00:27:56.04
Bill
So, um but yeah, but he says, he he kind of wrapped it up with this, just just like my program, it only works if you work it. Sometimes that means having to be honest with ourselves and our loved ones in order to work through life together.
00:28:05.70
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:28:07.66
Bill
So, yeah, but um that was it. He said, oh, last last thing here, this has nothing to do with the relationship. He said, your new platform sounds great. That's the sound quality for both of you, at least on Apple podcasts, it's much better than you were on Riverside, which I thought was kind of interesting, but good to hear.
00:28:24.17
Mike
who
00:28:26.47
Bill
Mike is really clear and easier to hear now. I hope he can use it and they don't fuck it up.
00:28:34.50
Mike
Gary, we feel the exact same way.
00:28:36.97
Bill
yeah And then he just ended with keep fucking off and I will keep listening. So um so thank you, Gary.
00:28:40.46
Mike
Nice.
00:28:42.26
Bill
And you know the the thing of it is, and I guess the the bits and pieces of that were were pretty simple, is that um I think it really what it comes down to is that, not that it didn't matter that we're talking about
00:28:53.23
Mike
Mm
00:28:54.89
Bill
a sober person or person trying to get sober and one who you know is a normie, I think that you know the the two of them clearly had a relationship that was solid to begin with, which means then, of course, hopefully it can survive you know the changes.
00:28:57.69
Mike
-hmm Right Mm
00:29:07.90
Bill
and But the other thing, and I think you were the one that's that said this a couple of times that you've seen and how you feel about it, is that you know sometimes the non-sober person either change, adapt, still wants to fix, right?
00:29:18.53
Mike
-hmm Mm-hmm
00:29:22.19
Bill
That's kind of the lines you thought about?
00:29:23.78
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know, well, I mean, because it changes, changes the dynamic of the relationship. It's just the nature of it. And right, I mean, sometimes the, the quote unquote normal person in the relationship, um you know, they've got a role, they've had this role. in the relationship of taking care of you and, and, you know, and, and some people like that. Some people like being the enablers. Some people like having that power over you, even though, you know, the, the, the drunk and the drug addict is, you know, they think they're controlling things and to an extent they are from their behaviors.
00:30:00.50
Bill
right
00:30:01.59
Mike
But, um, but yeah, the other person is, is really in control because clearly the alcoholic or drug addict out of control. Um, even though they're affecting it and they're, they're controlling it in a way through their behaviors. But, um, yeah. And and sometimes the other person doesn't like the fact that they can't, um, control you and take care of you and, and, and have that, that power over you, um, start being, start being responsible and taking care of yourself.
00:30:29.31
Bill
Right.
00:30:33.57
Mike
And. you know, helping others and and all that. And they they don't like that. That's not what they signed up for. And, um you know, sometimes you gotta to let those things go. um That's, you know, I mean, that's where I think Al-Anon is really important to the other person. and that relationship, you know, to go and and have the support group that we have, you know, have that have those people around you that understand what you're going through and have gone through it themselves and found a solution to their problem because clearly if you're in a deep relationship with an alcoholic or a drug addict, you got some fucking problems too.
00:31:09.33
Bill
I don't know if you can hear me, but it's showing or saying I lost a connection.
00:31:12.86
Mike
So, yeah. Oh shit. Well, you know what? I've lost Bill. He is offline as I look at my computer. I don't know. Let's see here, kids. I'm going to send him a text. La la la. It says that you're offline.
00:31:49.58
Mike
Clearly, I don't text quickly. Well, I don't know. We're probably going to cut this off. yeah We're going to set the 31 minute mark, 32 minute mark. um yeah
00:32:05.72
Bill
break and then tell me when you're done with that.
00:32:07.65
Mike
a I'm sure he'll edit this. um Now I'm going to call him. Let's see what that sounds like, kids.
00:32:21.34
Mike
Hell, let's put it on speaker.
00:32:25.24
Mike
he
00:32:25.28
Bill
o
00:32:33.19
Bill
and there
00:32:34.32
Mike
Hi there. It says you're offline.
00:32:35.67
Bill
Yes, I know. Oh, no.
00:32:38.03
Mike
Oh, wait a minute. You're coming back. You know what? And I've been kind of padding and I've got you on speaker.
00:32:45.45
Bill
Okay, we're gonna let's hang up the phone.
00:32:46.66
Mike
All right.
00:32:49.97
Bill
So, um, yeah, that was fucking weird. So that had this just as, uh, in the figures, as soon as we get done, what the fuck, man, we just got done. Tell ah reading Gary's line that hope it doesn't fuck up. That was not Zen caster. I somehow lost a connection to the server.
00:33:06.05
Mike
Hmm That was I know I was talking and I kind of good and then I right I made a point and looked over and went oh shit.
00:33:06.67
Bill
Um, I was connected to the internet, so I don't know what the deal is, but, um, that was fucking weird. So, um, anyhow.
00:33:19.24
Mike
He's gone But you know what it's patterned pretty well, so I think we'll probably leave it in Hmm
00:33:21.46
Bill
So, yes.
00:33:25.47
Bill
Oh, fuck it. I'm not gonna fix it. I mean, I'll just say, you know, again, this is our this is our rule. Unless you stood there and we're just like complete fucking silence, that's I would i would cut cut that part off. But that's why I'm texting Mike and I'm like, I lost my connection with a question mark. And he's like, yeah, you're offline. And then um I'm trying to type up just, I'm tight i'm texting the mic. I'm like, okay, just run us into a break. Tell me when you're done and I'm going to pause it. And then he's calling me and then we came back over on the fucking phone. That's awesome. I liked that.
00:33:54.19
Mike
That was that was
00:33:54.71
Bill
though That was funny. and So, and I think there's been just, and again, I know for a fact that had nothing to do with Zencastra because I've had, um this week I had one glitch with work, but the first week I was back here, my internet went out for 35 minutes one day, the internet went out 10 minutes one day.
00:34:12.72
Mike
Hmm All
00:34:14.77
Bill
um It's an Xfinity thing, I think they're what they're doing is they' they're fixing towers and doing some shit and working in the area, so I think that's what the problem is.
00:34:23.33
Mike
right That
00:34:23.37
Bill
because you know but it to begin with i thought i was connected but when i was trying to text you and voice text it wouldn't take so i think the I think the internet went down for a couple of minutes, but anyhow.
00:34:33.78
Mike
well it was fine here in Cleveland
00:34:36.45
Bill
Right. I just think it's, I just think it was funny that, uh, I can't wait to hear it, but, uh, yeah, literally I was just, I'm just sitting there trying to text Mike. I'm like, just fuck fucking run us into a break. Cause I wanted to, I wanted to clean a clean break and then we could, we could have started over if we needed to, you know, but, uh, anyhow.
00:34:52.08
Mike
Nope.
00:34:53.56
Bill
So, um, but I think we ended up with, well, you probably made your point the whole, I think the whole thing.
00:34:57.46
Mike
I, I think I did. Right.
00:34:59.99
Bill
So um let's let's do this. I'll pretend like, God damn, Mike, that was a poignant thing you just said.
00:35:05.06
Mike
Of course it was.
00:35:05.12
Bill
I can't believe um i can't believe how wonderful that was. Because a real podcast would cut out all that fucking garbage and that just act like it act like we came back in and it didn't happen.
00:35:10.71
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:35:14.14
Bill
We don't do that here.
00:35:15.87
Mike
That's right, man. We're raw. We're real.
00:35:19.14
Bill
yeah we're We're fucking rebels, man.
00:35:25.31
Bill
Yeah, but anyhow, so um ah last thing I want to say on that is just thank you, Gary. We truly appreciate, obviously, you continuing to, um you know, I don't know, just contribute.
00:35:36.82
Mike
Yes.
00:35:36.83
Bill
It's great. night I even told him when I got the email just a couple of weeks ago now, um you know, I said, I said, now we got a guest on this week. I don't know if I can have time bring it up. But I said, as soon as I soon as I will, or as soon as I can, I'll obviously bring it up. So, but thank you, Gary. We appreciate it.
00:35:50.17
Mike
Yes.
00:35:52.16
Bill
All right. So, um, I don't know. It's 35 minutes.
00:35:56.19
Mike
Yeah, you know, right.
00:35:56.64
Bill
and
00:35:57.74
Mike
Yeah, we'll we'll take our little break now. Well, actually, I'll follow some directions that I got from a text message from my friend Bill.
00:36:00.20
Bill
likes
00:36:06.48
Mike
And we will be right back with more of this nonsense right after these words from our sponsor.
00:36:06.64
Bill
Right.
00:36:20.83
Bill
all right everyone welcome back and look at that we came back in and out of a break and and once again didn't have to split the episode i know we did it last week just because uh you know we had john on there but it's still it's just we haven't uh i don't know it just all all this fucking months that we had problems with riverside um i'm still like a little child the fact that we don't have to you know we don't have to restart the studio so speaking of riverside how you want you want to
00:36:31.82
Mike
right
00:36:36.38
Mike
Right Mm-hmm Right Yes, speaking of them what the fuck did they do?
00:36:47.60
Bill
Okay, so well, so um I, I really would have rather come on here and been able to just bad mouth the piss out of it because it's more fun.
00:36:56.49
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:36:57.77
Bill
It's just, it's just more fun, you know, and um I, I really can't do that I get to give them some kudos, I have to give them a little bit of you know kind words, even with
00:36:58.02
Mike
Right.
00:37:03.79
Mike
All right.
00:37:07.56
Mike
Credit where credit is due.
00:37:09.50
Bill
Correct. I up to this point before I start with my kind words, I am not backtracking on anything I said about them.
00:37:17.64
Mike
Right.
00:37:17.93
Bill
I'm not taking anything back. i'm not I'm not apologizing for my past words. No, because all of that shit happened and I felt that way and I stand behind it.
00:37:24.25
Mike
Yep. Mm hmm.
00:37:27.77
Bill
However, the other day I just, I sent him a note and I'm like, okay, so here's the deal, blah, blah, blah, all the problems we had.
00:37:28.67
Mike
Yes.
00:37:34.39
Bill
And I just put in the email, I said, I am not gonna recap everything of what happened. I said, our podcast, look up my name, look up my email.
00:37:40.11
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:37:43.31
Bill
What do you have to do? Whatever you have to do, you can research the problems, but.
00:37:46.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:37:47.43
Bill
I'm not doing it again, but here's the deal. Here's what we're using now. We've done it for three weeks, four weeks, whatever it's been, no issues.
00:37:53.34
Mike
Right.
00:37:53.43
Bill
So we're done and we'd like a refund.
00:37:53.99
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:37:57.18
Bill
So thank you very much.
00:37:57.23
Mike
Yes.
00:37:59.41
Bill
So um the same day ah within like an hour, I get somebody back or email me back and I'm like, huh, that's kind of surprising.
00:38:06.69
Mike
Hmm.
00:38:07.27
Bill
So first thing he says, he's like, oh, would you like to expand more on what's happened? And then we can look at this and this. I email back, I'm like, no, I'm not expanding on anything.
00:38:16.62
Mike
Right.
00:38:17.64
Bill
look back.
00:38:17.85
Mike
We've done this already.
00:38:17.95
Bill
at what Exactly.
00:38:18.69
Mike
Yeah. That's why we switched. We over and over told you what the fucking problems were and you didn't resolve them.
00:38:23.77
Bill
yeah
00:38:25.14
Mike
So we went elsewhere.
00:38:27.85
Bill
Right. Our relationship with you got fucked up. So we went someplace else.
00:38:32.94
Mike
Yep.
00:38:33.16
Bill
um But I said, No, I said, but we're obviously looking for the refund. So he gets back to me and he's like, Oh, okay, here's the deal.
00:38:37.76
Mike
Mhm.
00:38:38.60
Bill
And here's how it happens. He goes, I'm i'm copying billing on here, because I'll have to work on, you know, the refund. um But But he said, you know, we appreciate it. We're sorry, we apologize for all the things that you had.
00:38:48.70
Mike
Mhm.
00:38:50.11
Bill
ah We'll take a look at it. You know, will the only reason I was asking try to help other people, blah, blah, blah. And the you know i email back and I said, thank you. You know, I appreciate that. I said, but just a couple of side notes here for you. And I said, um we dealt with it for months. I said it it it killed part of ah a portion of our listenership. I know for a fact that happened. because I watched I watched the numbers go down, you know, um we're a small podcast, we can't afford that.
00:39:08.79
Mike
Right.
00:39:14.37
Bill
And I said on top of that, I said every single time we came to you with a problem,
00:39:16.46
Mike
Hmm.
00:39:19.97
Bill
I said, you blamed us or our equipment.
00:39:22.49
Mike
Right.
00:39:22.54
Bill
not Not openly, but I said, basically, it's what? Your equipment or do this change and do that.
00:39:26.26
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:39:27.93
Bill
I said, there was no personal respect personal responsibility from Riverside. And I said, that's bothersome. And I said, this is just my opinion, but I'm going to say it anyhow. um I said, I think you're going to alienate small podcasts. I think whatever you're doing.
00:39:42.40
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:39:42.45
Bill
um push away your your bread and butter. you know I said, I've been around the business world for a long time. I said, small people like us are your bread and butter. if you know you're we're We're that base. you know And then you'll get the big people, but you know we're that base.
00:39:52.03
Mike
Right.
00:39:55.66
Bill
And I said, I'm sure if we spent thousands of dollars on new equipment and all this different stuff, which we're not going to do, maybe all all your stuff would work perfectly, but it is what it is.
00:40:01.40
Mike
isn Right.
00:40:06.11
Bill
so then
00:40:07.26
Mike
Hmm.
00:40:07.64
Bill
you know The guy thanked me again. ah Billing got back to me the next day. Said, here's the deal. you know Here's what we're going to do. We're going to prorate based on this. And you get $88 back.
00:40:19.34
Mike
Meh.
00:40:20.35
Bill
And I'm like, OK, because ah when we were renewed back in, I couldn't remember when we were renewed, but it was November.
00:40:23.14
Mike
Right.
00:40:26.12
Bill
It was $220 or whatever. So they prorated it.
00:40:28.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:40:30.47
Bill
And I'm like, um thank you. ah
00:40:33.64
Mike
yeah right
00:40:36.08
Bill
And then so what they did is they were were basically um because you could you could be a member of Riverside and be on ah on a free plan, which is what we will reduce down to.
00:40:42.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:40:45.47
Bill
We'll have access to all of our episodes, just not the individual recordings, not that I would ever need.
00:40:49.17
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:40:50.20
Bill
Those are just all raw things. I've downloaded them. Once I download them and put them up, if we ever lost shit with anchor, that would be the problem because that's where all our
00:40:57.88
Mike
Right.
00:40:59.41
Bill
you like core recordings are, um one way or the other. it's Yeah, I was just like, OK. So um you know I mean, basically, we got half almost half our money back um you know for a little bit over half the year. And they apologized.
00:41:11.62
Mike
Right.
00:41:12.75
Bill
And i mean i again, I got to give them credit for doing that.
00:41:13.31
Mike
Hmm.
00:41:16.00
Mike
Right.
00:41:16.29
Bill
Honestly, this this it doesn't. And I looked it up before I had emailed them. I think it's within the first, shit, 60 days or 90 days.
00:41:25.30
Mike
Mm-hmm, right Yeah,
00:41:25.47
Bill
They don't have to refund anything. you know So, um, I was not only surprised, I was pleasantly surprised and a little mind blown, um, that they refunded anything, but especially that dollar amount. I thought it'd be like some token. Yeah, here's 20 bucks.
00:41:41.25
Mike
there's 20 bucks right go get your shy box yeah Great Right
00:41:41.26
Bill
Go get your, go get your shine box.
00:41:45.82
Bill
Go get your shine box. You know, I don't do that anymore. Oh, shine shoes anymore. But um yeah, so, ah you know, I haven't gotten the money back yet. They said, you know, it comes back on, I don't know, whatever fucking card I used. I don't remember which one I used, but yeah.
00:41:59.63
Mike
Right? Yeah. but Cool. Good. Well, hey, that's nice. Somebody actually did the right thing out there. It happens occasionally.
00:42:08.52
Bill
I know it was, um I was again, pleasantly surprised. And, you know, like I said, part of me would, it would have been more fun to get, get on here and just yeah fuck fucking bitch and moan.
00:42:16.58
Mike
is
00:42:18.64
Bill
But I don't know if this, this worked out, this worked out fine. So it's all good.
00:42:24.06
Mike
Good, good. All right. Well, thanks for every side. Uh, yeah, don't let the door hit in the ass.
00:42:32.16
Bill
And you know what, I, God, I hope it's not on, when maybe it is on my end, you, you sound a little bit like bubbly, like underwater bubbly, but again, I'm sure it won't, it won't show up on the recording, but I don't sound weird.
00:42:42.55
Mike
Hmm.
00:42:44.14
Bill
I rather the ordinary, do I?
00:42:45.81
Mike
No, everything sounds fine on my end.
00:42:47.91
Bill
Okay. Yeah. And you're back to, you're back to normal. You're just bubbly. Maybe when you got happy, that's all ah right.
00:42:53.28
Mike
It's my bubbly personality.
00:42:56.33
Bill
And I really think that I think it's the internet on this end. I think there was, there was, there's something going on here.
00:43:01.19
Mike
Well, yeah, clearly you went offline for three, four minutes, right?
00:43:01.56
Bill
So.
00:43:05.35
Bill
right. Right. Yeah. So that's that's the first time that's ever happened here. Do you actually have the internet go completely out? So but but anyhow, so yeah, Riverside again, don't let the door hit you in the ass. But I we we do appreciate the fact that they did that.
00:43:17.21
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:43:18.41
Bill
I mean, it's Again, surprise me, but you know all the past problems, everything that I said, though, I truly think that if you're a small podcaster out there, and if anyone came to me and said they were gonna use them, um I would say these are the problems we had, and this is the equipment we use.
00:43:27.70
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:43:34.33
Bill
If you're spending a lot of money, you know hey, more power to you, but I just don't, I don't know, I mean, everything, everything, because we're doing the same setup that we had with Riverside, back to your Chromebook, same microphone, got my computer back, all this different shit,
00:43:34.35
Mike
Right.
00:43:37.28
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:43:48.62
Bill
It's all the same, and it's perfect, you know?
00:43:50.37
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:43:51.49
Bill
So.
00:43:54.04
Mike
Yep. Yeah, Yep.
00:43:55.16
Bill
Oh, yeah.
00:43:55.84
Mike
Like you said, man, they're they're Adding too much crap to it. and It's just yeah, it's we we don't need it You know, we never we never did we want to record audio and put it out there It's what we do.
00:44:00.79
Bill
Right. Right.
00:44:07.37
Mike
It's what a fucking podcast is supposed to be, you know Yeah, so it's it's a radio show with yeah, you know just on the internet.
00:44:09.66
Bill
Right.
00:44:14.70
Mike
That's what a podcast is I Fucking hated that
00:44:16.61
Bill
Right. You know, I. and i We did the one video one, which I know you didn't like, I think in a different, yeah but in, you know, ah under certain circumstances, there would have been, I, there would have been a time in a place where I think that would be fun to do every once in a while. I think that either one of us got to handle that.
00:44:31.19
Mike
Mm-hmm
00:44:33.12
Bill
Um, and maybe, you know, we'll test it out on here one time just to see how it is. I, it would have to be a special thing for us to want to do it, but, um, I could see, you know, having the need to do it, but you know, yeah, we don't need all that fucking shit all the time.
00:44:36.82
Mike
Right Right He's
00:44:45.27
Bill
You know, it just, it's fucking pointless. So. All right, enough enough tech tech talk, and we're on we're on Zencast now. Oh, once again, this episode is brought to you by Zencaster.
00:44:56.25
Mike
heading castor no bullshit just get it out there and
00:44:59.85
Bill
Yeah, and once again, so cool, they don't need the E.
00:45:03.46
Mike
That's right.
00:45:06.25
Bill
um All right, so I'm gonna ask you a question, and then I'll add a little bit more context to it after the fact, but do you think
00:45:10.65
Mike
and All right.
00:45:17.85
Bill
that everyone has a rock bottom.
00:45:23.36
Mike
um
00:45:26.66
Mike
i
00:45:29.62
Bill
sir Let me just pause for a minute. Those are the best fucking reactions. I wait for those every once in a while for you. It doesn't happen a lot, but every once in a while you're just like. like
00:45:41.96
Mike
Right, um, well, okay. All right. Everyone has a rock bottom. It's called fucking death. Um
00:45:53.62
Bill
yeah Right.
00:45:53.76
Mike
I mean, and the big book talks about, you know, high bottom drunks and stuff. I mean, you know, everyone doesn't have to be homeless. Everyone doesn't have to, you know, uh, lose their entire family, everyone to Gary. Everyone doesn't have to lose their relationships. Everyone, you know, there are, your bottom is your body. Your bottom is when you stop digging, uh, and you start working on climbing out of whatever hole you have put yourself in. um Yeah, ah everyone has a rock bottom. It's death. ah You know, you you just you never get sober and you fucking die loaded um and miserable. And yes, i but yeah you don't have to
00:46:38.71
Mike
If you're out there and you're, you're getting low, um, stop digging, man, you know, and start working on getting out of that hole.
00:46:43.60
Bill
Right.
00:46:47.61
Mike
And, uh, that's, that's your bottom. I know. I mean, clearly, you know, both of us, we could have gone lower. Um, You know I was I was living in a house with my daughter not paying any bills and locked in a bedroom But um, I could have been out on the street.
00:46:56.81
Bill
yeah Right.
00:47:04.84
Mike
I have been out on the street ah You know you were living in a house um doing whatever the hell you were doing there um right, but you know We stopped digging when we got so um, yeah ah Everyone has that rock bottom, but you don't have to continue to
00:47:16.18
Bill
Right.
00:47:25.83
Mike
i Get closer to it. You can stop at any time and start working your way out of the hole All
00:47:29.41
Bill
Right.
00:47:31.72
Bill
Yeah, and it's um and it was just, it was one of those questions that I can't, of course I don't know what podcast it was, but I was listening to some podcast and the guest had said that, but the way that she put it, and and I'll give you my opinion in a minute, but um so she said that not everyone has a, or she said, Not everyone has to have a rock bottom. They just have rocky moments.
00:47:53.05
Mike
right Hmm
00:47:55.66
Bill
And I was like, okay, so, and that made me think about that though, but there, I look at a rock bottom as, as an end to your drinking, you know, and I'm looking at it from, I agree with you. Everyone's got an end as far as a rock bottom. of Yeah, you're dead. You could drink from that point.
00:48:08.33
Mike
ah Yeah.
00:48:09.18
Bill
And that's, that would be the ultimate, you know, rock bottom and in this, in this whole thing we do.
00:48:13.20
Mike
Yeah.
00:48:14.25
Bill
But wherever, like you said, in that, that's the perfect analogy. Cause I thought about that, that,
00:48:19.08
Mike
Mm
00:48:20.37
Bill
everyone doesn't have to have a like you said low bottom high bottom that sort of thing not everyone has to be an extremely low bottom drunk but at some point we all stop digging so we all hit a
00:48:25.02
Mike
hmm.
00:48:28.54
Mike
Right.
00:48:32.65
Mike
Bottom.
00:48:33.29
Bill
floor or a ceiling or not. a seat We all hit a floor. Yeah, not a bottom, you know, and it that becomes our rock bottom, even if you didn't, like you said, didn't lose your house, didn't lose your relationship.
00:48:37.50
Mike
Yes. Right.
00:48:44.99
Bill
You know, we're homeless, you know, weren't, you know, it point for something.
00:48:45.14
Mike
right
00:48:49.48
Mike
Right.
00:48:49.64
Bill
and And when you went into detox, didn't have to go to the Keating Center, all those sort of things.
00:48:52.21
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah, right.
00:48:56.10
Bill
You know, so right,
00:48:56.14
Mike
Yeah. I mean, you don't have to do any of that stuff. You can, you know, have your job and have your family and all that and just go, fuck, I can't do this anymore. I need some help and go get that help and start doing the work. And yeah, that was your bottom.
00:49:09.79
Bill
Right. And you know, her, her story was, uh, and I actually know what podcast I was listening to was the, uh, and I don't mind mentioning him cause he's a, he's a good dude. I've talked about it before, but, um, the sober motivation podcast, the guy's name is Brad. He lives in Canada. Um, he's been doing this, uh, his podcast at least as long as us, he's a lot bigger than us as I mean, a hell of a lot more downloads and plays and whatever, but, um, he's got some good guests on there, very formatted, which we're not all those sort of things.
00:49:29.99
Mike
Right.
00:49:37.61
Bill
But, um, her story was she had, you know, some early blackout moments and then, you know, she had her ups and downs, she had her things, but she didn't have that like extreme story, which is i where her mindset was coming from. So I think I'm not trying to put words into her mouth, but I think she was more along the lines of, you know people don't have to completely fucking bottom out and do all the things we just talked about.
00:49:58.84
Mike
right
00:50:00.85
Bill
you know They just have to hit some, okay, you're bouncing around like you said, I'm fucking up here, I'm fucking up there. I need some help and I still got my shit together when I come out of this, but I'm still an alcoholic, I'm in recovery, I'm sober, whatever it is.
00:50:12.25
Mike
here
00:50:13.68
Bill
So it was just an interesting thought because I'm like, well, God, really? Is it that you don't have to have a rock bottom or just don't have to have a severe one? So that's where I was, that's where I was kind of going with that.
00:50:22.17
Mike
Yeah.
00:50:24.18
Bill
so
00:50:25.05
Mike
yeah Yeah. I mean, again, it's, you know, Hey, guess what? It's in the big book. Uh, they talk about, yeah, high bottoms and low bottoms and all that good stuff. Yes.
00:50:34.04
Bill
Right. Yeah, and um I mean, I don't I mean, shit, you know, I think that I wasn't in um I wasn't in really great shape, you know, neither were you when when we got when either one of us got sober.
00:50:43.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:50:45.37
Bill
But, um you know, I we know a lot of people that were, you know, better off than us, we know people that were worse, you know, better than worse than less than greater than whatever the case is.
00:50:45.70
Mike
Right.
00:50:49.23
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure. Mm-hmm.
00:50:55.54
Bill
And it really doesn't fucking matter. I mean, um you know, it just, within a matter of weeks, I would have been homeless, you know, within a matter of weeks, I might've been dead, you know?
00:50:57.29
Mike
Nope.
00:51:01.17
Mike
Wow.
00:51:03.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:51:04.16
Bill
So yeah, homeless and lifeless.
00:51:06.79
Mike
Right.
00:51:08.45
Bill
It's a fucked up thing to laugh about, but what the fuck, man?
00:51:08.55
Mike
Huh?
00:51:10.85
Bill
and
00:51:11.32
Mike
ah
00:51:11.56
Bill
you know so sometimes sometimes you gotta laugh at some of that shit at least i know i do but uh um i don't know it was just it it was and it was an interesting thought if nothing else so i thought it would be just wanted to get your opinion but yeah you you make me laugh every once in a while when when i ask those questions you're you're just like oh
00:51:20.72
Mike
this is
00:51:23.75
Mike
Mmhmm.
00:51:28.88
Bill
yeah
00:51:29.89
Mike
God damn it, I gotta think about something.
00:51:31.85
Bill
I know, I know. I just thought it's kind of funny. So this is just kind of a a side note, but we had talked about, and I know I keep bringing it up, but like step six and seven at some point talking about it, but was there a, um in the meeting that the 1212 and four, was there a, was there actually a book on the absolutes?
00:51:41.37
Mike
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:51:52.13
Mike
There's a pamphlet.
00:51:53.52
Bill
It's a pamphlet. So we just read out of a pamphlet for that. That's it.
00:51:56.13
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:57.36
Bill
Okay. okay
00:51:58.04
Mike
Yeah. As the four absolutes pamphlet comes from Cleveland central office.
00:52:02.79
Bill
Right.
00:52:03.24
Mike
Um, you know, I've said a couple around the country, you know, people don't. They're like, the absolutes, what are those? And if you don't know, the absolutes came from the Oxford group, which is was kind of a temperate society, Christian temperate society ah prior to Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:52:10.47
Bill
Right.
00:52:22.50
Mike
Dr. Bob was a member of the Oxford group, a drunken member of the Oxford group. i
00:52:30.20
Bill
yeah
00:52:30.77
Mike
And um yeah, you know and he and Bill used some of their stuff. um when creating the big book and forming Alcoholics Anonymous. And yeah, and in Cleveland, um there is a official pamphlet called The Four Absolutes. And you can write to central office here in Cleveland, Ohio, and they'll probably ah sell you one.
00:52:46.91
Bill
Right.
00:52:54.50
Bill
You know, I just couldn't, I couldn't remember if I knew of the pamphlet, but I couldn't remember if there was an actual book, kind of like the 12 and 12 that more detailed associated.
00:53:01.02
Mike
No, no, we used to, yeah, we used to, you know,
00:53:03.31
Bill
and
00:53:05.74
Mike
uh, pamphlet, the four absolutes and we read when we get to that part of the cycle, we do the four, the 12 steps and the 12 traditions and then the four absolutes and 12 steps. But yeah, when it's absolute time, we pulled out the little pamphlet right out of that.
00:53:21.12
Bill
Right. Okay. Interesting. It was just that because I thought I'm like, God, if there's a book, maybe we can talk about that more. I just think, you know, to to your point, and we brought it up, you know, a number of different times, but, you know, that really, I mean, nobody outside of people that I talked to, and I know people that you've talked to, you know, outside of the Cleveland area,
00:53:38.83
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:53:40.66
Bill
have no fucking idea, you know, what the absolute are.
00:53:42.05
Mike
Right.
00:53:42.87
Bill
So, um, I don't know, just, ah it was, that was a sideline question for you, but, um, you know, I think that if nothing else, it's, um, it, we could bring up the absolutes more and actually have conversations about them. Cause I think it's, uh, I think it would be well needed information.
00:53:55.37
Mike
Yeah.
00:53:56.87
Bill
And the whole point is, you know, you've got obviously 12 steps and 12 traditions, all those sorts of things that people a lot of times get overwhelmed with it.
00:54:02.31
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:54:04.89
Bill
And one of the things we've talked about on here is that ah that's the four absolutes. And again, there's only four, not 12.
00:54:11.46
Mike
Right.
00:54:12.54
Bill
A little bit easier on the mind and they're very, very simple. It's honesty and selfishness, love and purity. That's it.
00:54:18.25
Mike
Yep.
00:54:18.25
Bill
you know and These are things that we were told right off the bat that hey, if nothing else, um work on these things. If you're going to make a major decision, run them through that.
00:54:26.40
Mike
Yeah.
00:54:28.45
Bill
Is it honest? Is it unselfish? Is it pure? Is it loving? um If you if you stop on any one of those, you probably shouldn't do or say what you're supposed to or what you think you want to do or say.
00:54:33.16
Mike
Mm
00:54:39.20
Bill
ah But on top of that, too, that
00:54:39.24
Mike
hmm.
00:54:42.06
Bill
I think to begin with, and I'm just going to say anyone that's trying to get sober, even if you don't want to you know go into the steps or anything like that, either ever or right away, those four absolutes will keep you at least steady a little bit.
00:54:49.79
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:54:56.87
Bill
They're not going to cure you. None of us are fucking cured, but um you know I think they're gonna they pointed us in the right direction, I think, right?
00:54:58.23
Mike
No.
00:55:03.53
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:55:05.04
Bill
but Absolutely.
00:55:06.46
Mike
Absolutely.
00:55:10.11
Bill
But yeah, just, ah I don't know. Again, that was kind of a sideline thing. So I like them. I like the absolutes. They yeah they make and make me happy.
00:55:15.27
Mike
Me too.
00:55:17.04
Bill
So, all right, so here's a non-sober thing. And this just came up on the radio show that I listened to.
00:55:24.22
Mike
Mm-hmm
00:55:24.87
Bill
So they were talking about the happiest cities in America, okay?
00:55:32.32
Mike
All right So places to avoid Yes um I'm happy in my own mind ah So it doesn't matter what city I'm in.
00:55:35.99
Bill
ah So, yeah right. So let let me ask you this, Mike, do you think you are happy in your city?
00:55:49.88
Bill
yeah
00:55:53.16
Mike
I
00:55:53.85
Bill
Right, now I know, hang on one second, because according to, and there's 182 on this list, okay?
00:55:57.67
Mike
wow
00:56:01.73
Mike
Mm-hmm Right, no, I could have told you that take a look around take around me every day.
00:56:02.83
Bill
um According to this list, you're not very happy, okay? yeah number
00:56:10.45
Mike
Yeah, what number are is Cleveland, Ohio?
00:56:13.91
Bill
ah Number 181 out of 182 is Cleveland. yeah And then then your your hometown is 182.
00:56:19.81
Mike
All right
00:56:23.63
Mike
Yeah, nice. Yeah, let's see.
00:56:25.06
Bill
Detroit.
00:56:25.89
Mike
Right. Exactly. Yes. That makes perfect sense.
00:56:29.47
Bill
ah Let's just see here.
00:56:30.02
Mike
That's why I feel at home here.
00:56:33.29
Bill
Um, I think cause I, I mean, obviously it's a long fucking list. I was trying to scroll through, I'm scrolling through the entire thing and I'm i'm like, I'm into the eighties or something like that.
00:56:36.74
Mike
who
00:56:41.66
Bill
I'm like, what the fuck is Cleveland?
00:56:43.22
Mike
Mark.
00:56:43.47
Bill
Like Chicago, Chicago was 83. Literally I went back twice thinking I missed it. Um, but no, yeah, it was 181. I can't, I'm trying to figure out, I said maybe Milwaukee was in the forties, but, um, the number, can you guess the number one city? This kind of blew my mind and I'll, I'll tell you why.
00:56:59.16
Mike
Happiest happiest city. um I mean I would think it would be like Honolulu or something No,
00:57:01.83
Bill
Yeah.
00:57:06.58
Bill
Right, I would think so too, but Fremont, California.
00:57:12.62
Mike
no no, all right this yeah did no Okay Next
00:57:16.79
Bill
Honolulu is number six. Madison, Wisconsin. This one makes sense. Madison, Wisconsin is number four.
00:57:24.80
Mike
are loaded
00:57:26.22
Bill
Well, there's two different reasons for that. Yeah, it's a college town.
00:57:30.64
Mike
Right.
00:57:30.64
Bill
And there's obviously college kids. Yeah, they're too drunk not to be happy. But Madison is, have you been to Madison? Have you ever actually been on the ground in Madison or no?
00:57:38.75
Mike
up wow A little bit, yeah.
00:57:42.89
Bill
Okay. It's a, it's a really, um, not that politics matters, but it does to a certain extent when it comes to, we're in liberal town, you know, in some ways they can get a little, um, I mean, but they're, they're like really fucking liberal where somebody's.
00:57:50.94
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:57:56.20
Mike
Oh, yeah, hippie dippy, right, communist, right.
00:57:57.79
Bill
Oh yeah. we're Yeah, we're we're towns are like really fucking conservative. So Madison's one of those, but, um, it really is, it's a fucking nice city. It it really is.
00:58:07.52
Mike
Yeah Right
00:58:08.25
Bill
Um, it's beautiful now cost of living. You could go from, um, you know, kind of the. ah I don't know, like the Cleveland area, you got, you know, the all the hills that or the, yeah you know, big mansions and shit and Lakewood, you know, down to wherever, you know, pick the worst part of Cleveland type of thing.
00:58:14.32
Mike
East Cleveland
00:58:22.15
Mike
right
00:58:24.93
Mike
east cleveland
00:58:25.25
Bill
And yeah, and Madison's got the same thing, you know, but um I don't know, it just, that didn't really surprise me that much, but yeah, you just, when you said, yeah, they're they're just drunk, but it is, it's a nice city, but it's just kind of, I don't, where is Fremont, California?
00:58:36.36
Mike
Uh-huh. It's outside of San Francisco.
00:58:43.93
Bill
Okay. Yeah. Well, I guess that makes sense. San Francisco is number six or something like that on here, but, uh, uh, no, Honolulu is six.
00:58:48.68
Mike
Really? Well, I guess if you were to shit on the street, human feces.
00:58:56.33
Bill
San Francisco was seven. So yeah, but still same thing.
00:58:57.93
Mike
and Okay. I mean, you know, I, yes, you know, I loved San Francisco.
00:58:59.29
Bill
ah yeah
00:59:02.71
Mike
Um, it's a very different place than it was when I was hanging out there, but, um, yeah, you know, yeah, I mean, it's beautiful and I love the weather and, you know, yeah, I, whatever.
00:59:06.54
Bill
Right.
00:59:16.26
Bill
No, it's just literally the the only reason um I was gonna have you that to begin with, I was gonna just have you guess the number one city, because I didn't and didn't even know where Fremont was.
00:59:24.94
Mike
Uh,
00:59:25.20
Bill
But then when I started scrolling through and I saw Cleveland being 181, I'm like, oh yeah, I need to fucking talk about this now.
00:59:30.27
Mike
ya
00:59:32.29
Bill
And then yeah, Detroit being 182, that's just kind of, it made me laugh even even more. But I don't know, like you said is in in my opinion, you know it's just we're wherever you go, there you are type of thing.
00:59:40.07
Mike
Yeah Oh, yeah, absolutely and and You know happiness, um, you know Ignorance is bliss.
00:59:43.83
Bill
I mean, if you're fucking, if you
00:59:51.99
Mike
Um, I'd like to think that Cleveland and Detroit ah has a bunch of people in it that uh, I Are aware of what the hell's going on in the world and um, you know and the fucks are to be happy about Right Mm
00:59:52.37
Bill
Right.
01:00:07.08
Bill
Right, right. Well, and the other thing too is I, and I didn't, and I'm not going to, I didn't read what the criteria was is how they figured it out. But, um but the same thing, you know, that, I mean, we, we, I don't want to say we make our own happiness because it's kind of like happiness as a by-product of what we do. And I know we talked about that, but, but we do, I mean, we end up creating our own happiness by being good individuals and be good people.
01:00:23.29
Mike
-hmm
01:00:28.29
Mike
Right. Yep.
01:00:29.16
Bill
But to your point also is, is being aware, you know, of what's going on in the country. I mean, I don't know, I mean, some of the shit that's going on in in this fucking world and in this country is just fucked up, you know?
01:00:37.39
Mike
Yes.
01:00:40.45
Bill
You know, sometimes like you and I, you and I don't talk about politics on here, you guys, you and I don't talk about world events.
01:00:43.74
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:00:46.35
Bill
um I haven't, I can't fucking remember the last time that I've watched the news, you know?
01:00:48.93
Mike
Hmm.
01:00:51.83
Bill
um but
01:00:52.60
Mike
Right.
01:00:52.88
Bill
um um i do i Keep an eye on the internet. I see articles. I see things going on.
01:00:56.96
Mike
Right.
01:00:57.83
Bill
I'm not completely oblivious, but there's a lot of times when somebody's like, did you hear about that? This, this nasty shit that's happened over here. I'm like, nope.
01:01:05.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:01:06.43
Bill
I'm like, and sometimes it's like, God damn, that happened. I'll look into it, you know, but, but in one way or the other, I hear about it, but I don't know some of the shit I'm like, I think you said it best before either.
01:01:09.45
Mike
Uh huh.
01:01:16.25
Bill
It doesn't affect me or what the fuck am I going to do about it?
01:01:19.05
Mike
Right.
01:01:19.61
Bill
You know?
01:01:20.10
Mike
Yeah. Serenity prayer. Shit, man.
01:01:22.62
Bill
Yeah.
01:01:23.07
Mike
Yep.
01:01:24.30
Bill
I don't know, but ah speaking of politics though, just briefly, we're gonna hear a ton of that over the next few months with the election coming near.
01:01:30.68
Mike
Right.
01:01:32.04
Bill
So who is the, I tried to look it up to the the other day and i maybe I got it right. Who's the libertarian dude this year?
01:01:38.57
Mike
Uh, if I saw the name, I'd, I'd recognize it.
01:01:38.97
Bill
Is it?
01:01:42.64
Mike
Um, I.
01:01:43.08
Bill
Is it Chase? Chase something?
01:01:45.00
Mike
Yeah. Chase something. Yes. Um, and, um, I'm not a big fan.
01:01:47.79
Bill
Okay.
01:01:51.56
Bill
Right.
01:01:51.75
Mike
Unfortunately this time around, uh, he's got a lot of, I don't know where the hell I found this guy, but he's got a lot of, uh, very left leaning, uh, positions and, uh, yeah, that's whatever. No, thanks.
01:02:04.35
Bill
Yeah, I didn't even I, as so you were talking about that, I'm like, pop that popped into my head that in Chase, but I don't know, you know, it's the only thing that I and I've done it for years is I haven't, I haven't voted for one of the, you know, whatever you call mainstream parties and in a number of years and I don't plan on doing it at this time around and
01:02:18.24
Mike
Right yeah Oh
01:02:23.00
Bill
Um, I, I'll do some research over the next, you know, next handful of months and figure out who lines up with, with what I believe more, you know, and that's kind of all I do.
01:02:30.00
Mike
Right they just look for deer and are yep
01:02:30.61
Bill
I don't, I don't know. The only, the only thing I'll say is I don't understand, you know, straight party line individuals, especially with the main streams, because like you said, it's sometimes people just no research, not knowing what's going on in the world.
01:02:43.71
Mike
right they just look for d or an r
01:02:44.25
Bill
No, nobody's right.
01:02:45.95
Mike
ye
01:02:47.35
Bill
And my last thing I'll say all politicians are fucking idiots and they're fucking criminals.
01:02:51.49
Mike
Yep. yeah Thank you.
01:02:52.54
Bill
yeah That's, that's, that's all, that's all there is to it. It doesn't matter. Pick your, pick your favorite criminal. That's all it is.
01:02:59.49
Mike
Yes, exactly.
01:03:00.25
Bill
No, right.
01:03:00.37
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, Corolla used to talk about a stupider liar, right? Are they stupid or are are they a liar? Do they actually know that they're bullshitting you or are they just fucking stupid? And that pretty much sums it up.
01:03:13.41
Bill
Right.
01:03:14.51
Mike
Yes.
01:03:15.12
Bill
no All right, so that that ends political talk hopefully for many episodes but All right, so, um, so from speaking to keep it simple.
01:03:19.11
Mike
Right.
01:03:25.61
Bill
Um, I don't know when this is from always I'll list ten gifts of recovery for which I have gratitude ten seems like a lot I mean, but um You know was just
01:03:33.92
Mike
Hmm. Or it seems like a little.
01:03:37.45
Bill
Yeah, I mean, exactly. But I mean, to, to right off the top of your head, I was, my, my point is I'm not going to list, ask you to list off 10 things.
01:03:44.10
Mike
Hmm.
01:03:44.61
Bill
I mean, maybe gifts of recovery, but, um, I don't know, just thinking about that. And it was a, it was a thinking thing when I wrote it down. Um, there's so many things I, you know, I have gratitude for, but are there even one, two or three, you know, right off the top of your head that you can think of?
01:03:54.69
Mike
Oh yeah.
01:03:59.46
Mike
I mean, peace and serenity, man, you know, clear conscious.
01:04:01.93
Bill
Right.
01:04:02.73
Mike
Um, yeah, not having the the conflict and the, you know, as a byproduct of doing the right thing. Yeah. Uh, that's, that's the best one.
01:04:12.43
Bill
Oh.
01:04:13.06
Mike
Yeah. The peace and the serenity that I, I, at the end of the day, when I look back and it's like, yeah, it wasn't too big of an asshole. Cool. I'm going to go to sleep now.
01:04:22.31
Bill
Right. Yeah, and I think that, um I mean, peace and serenity have to be, you know, easily one easily to a mind and then just, I don't know the the, the relationships, you know, the comfort that I have around, around people being able to walk into, you know, any room at any time.
01:04:40.91
Mike
Hmm.
01:04:40.95
Bill
um And I can keep my head up, you know, as they used to say, you know, and I don't have to
01:04:43.28
Mike
Right.
01:04:45.33
Bill
I don't have to stare at my shoes or or anything like that anymore.
01:04:47.71
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:48.33
Bill
And um it's such a it's such a gift. I mean, there's there's so many things. you know But you know the freedom, the freedom to to do anything and go anywhere within reason, obviously, we know that.
01:04:55.33
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
01:04:59.12
Bill
you know But um I don't know, just waking up waking up and going to bed with ah with a clear conscience. Oh, so the the other day, and this is, I'm not gonna name the person or the circumstance or whatever it was, but Jesus Christ, these fucking dogs.
01:05:12.86
Mike
Yeah, uh-huh.
01:05:13.72
Bill
I Kathy just texted me.
01:05:14.45
Mike
it could be
01:05:15.97
Bill
She's like take a look at this I don't know where she is and and so my phone my phone's fucking buzzing with her God dogs barking says she must be outside Yeah, I'm like I'm doing a podcast but um yeah Anyhow just fucking with Kathy but anyhow yes you texted us at one one hour and five minutes into the podcast so anyhow
01:05:22.65
Mike
Take a look at this.
01:05:35.35
Bill
But, um, so the the other day, and it was just a, it was a text message type of thing back and forth to somebody. It wasn't any big deal, but, um, I was kind of in, and I didn't realize it at the time, but I, I, after the fact realized that I was in a mood, you know, and.
01:05:49.07
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:05:50.31
Bill
It was a friendly text. It was a back and forth, but all said and done, I lay down and, you know, that's when I do my prayers. I do my 10 step. I said it all the time. I always go okay my day and I think back and rarely it's been. It's been a long fucking time since I've had to go back in. I've even had to that felt like I wanted to go back in and say, I apologize if I came across this way type of thing.
01:06:13.09
Mike
Right.
01:06:13.29
Bill
But that just happened this week. you know And and i just in the morning, I sent a text.
01:06:14.79
Mike
Hmm.
01:06:17.37
Bill
And I'm like, hey, um I don't know if I seemed a little you know snotty or or you know snippy in my text. But if i if I did, I'm like, it had nothing to do with you. um i I know now I was in kind of a mood. And you know i just I apologize if it came across that way. The person's like, no, I didn't think anything of it. um you know or anything like that but i read back my text and it just i i don't know you you know how it is when you text something and you're like i don't know i just i felt weird but the thing of it is is i i didn't really think about it after the fact until i did that 10 step you know
01:06:36.01
Mike
Right.
01:06:50.93
Bill
And it was just, once again, I went back to the person and you know it's somebody I'm friends with. It's nothing nothing big, nothing out of the ordinary um you know that that it went on, but that 10 step helped me catch something. And that's the first time that's happened in a long time. And I was just like, God damn, this shit is fucking cool.
01:07:10.01
Mike
Hehehe. Yup.
01:07:11.72
Bill
You know, I mean, it just it was so nice, you know, because, ah you know, I get I get so used to it's this routine that we talk about and it's this, you know, doing the readings and I forget shit that I read and we just go through the motions in a good way because it's become habit.
01:07:25.39
Mike
Mhm.
01:07:25.49
Bill
um But, you know, I started going back and that popped into my head and I'm like, fuck. And I looked I while I was doing that, I popped up, I looked at my phone, and I'm like, um man, I You know how it is. You just feel like something was snippy.
01:07:38.30
Mike
Right.
01:07:38.31
Bill
in it's been It's been warm out. It gets a little warm in the room in here sometimes if I if i had the door closed.
01:07:42.53
Mike
Mm-hmm
01:07:44.08
Bill
um I'm having a great month you know for at work, but the last couple of days have been really slow, you know so or last few days. So I'm like a little bit frustrated with that. So I know what the ingredients were to have me be snippy, but um I don't want to be that person today.
01:07:56.46
Mike
Right Yeah, but it yeah then so he caught yourself and stopped doing it nice
01:07:58.43
Bill
you know so
01:08:04.88
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. And, and like I said, you know, it's just it in, if this time it wasn't one of those, one of the, wasn't one of those times when I, when I came back and I'm like, well, fuck, I guess I didn't have to apologize anyhow. um And that was, that was number of years ago when I, when I did that and apologize to somebody like, what was no big deal in my head? I'm like, fuck that. I didn't even have to waste my breath, but I didn't think that way. Cause they, if it, if it mattered to me or if it, if it popped out my head, then yes, we need to say something, right?
01:08:30.52
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Absolutely.
01:08:33.18
Bill
Yeah. So um, alright, so little other one today and this is here's another other homework assignment. Today I will write down three times I pretended I wasn't good enough so that I could avoid responsibility. Do we talk about that at all or no?
01:08:51.78
Mike
I mean, I think we've touched on it before. Um, yeah, three times.
01:08:54.22
Bill
Okay.
01:08:56.31
Mike
Jesus Christ. Three decades. Um, but
01:09:01.39
Bill
But have you ever done that? I mean, to avoid responsibility, I mean.
01:09:03.57
Mike
Oh, yeah, a lot. It's called a lifestyle.
01:09:08.84
Bill
yeah Right, right.
01:09:09.23
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, it's it's it's a nice way to rationalize, you know, not not doing what you need to do, right? Well, I'm just not good enough. I can't live up to that.
01:09:23.97
Bill
Right.
01:09:24.08
Mike
So, yeah, **** that **** um here No, I yeah, I did it all the time and thankfully don't have to do it anymore Mm
01:09:33.46
Bill
Right. Yeah, and it's, ah I mean, in, you know, the the thing that is that I and I, it just kind of occurred to me that it's, it's all about um being afraid of failure, too, you know, and, you know, the, especially when we were, you know, when we were drinking and stuff like that, you know, you got to figure that, okay, that the condition we were in the mindset that we're in,
01:09:45.15
Mike
-hmm
01:09:53.62
Bill
Um, I, I, I felt like I was always confident, but I had no self confidence. I had no self worth, you know, so why do something and, you know, with the, with the potential that I can fail, you know, I want to fucking fail.
01:10:06.43
Mike
Right, no, absolutely. Yeah, right. I can't wait if I don't do anything that I can't fail Hmm
01:10:12.18
Bill
Right, you know and and don't get me wrong, I have no desire to fail today either. um you know But the other thing is I know that, well, two things, as long as I you know do the right thing, if I did the right thing, no shortcuts, no cutting corners, anything like that, i put forth my I put my best foot forward, I put forth my best effort, and if it didn't work out, it is what it fucking is.
01:10:35.58
Mike
right
01:10:35.59
Bill
And either I learned from it, or you know even if it wasn't an immediate lesson I'll learn something from it or worst case scenario I have the opportunity to say you know what I at least tried and I won't have any regret because I know for a fact you know that the if if I don't try something now if I get it in my head unless it's physically beyond my capabilities and know I'm not stupid that I'm that I'm fucking old you know
01:10:49.37
Mike
Right. Yeah.
01:10:58.54
Mike
yeah
01:10:59.53
Bill
I mean, hey, I'm not going to, I, you won't, you aren't going to catch me on a basketball court. You're not going to catch me playing softball these days.
01:11:04.20
Mike
No.
01:11:06.32
Bill
I'm not running anymore unless I'm being chased.
01:11:09.04
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:11:10.26
Bill
You know, I'm just, I, I have no desire to do any of that because I'm like, fuck it, man. I don't need to do this shit anymore. You know?
01:11:15.59
Mike
Right.
01:11:15.78
Bill
Um, but other than that, I mean, why not give something an opportunity to try, you know? And if we put our our effort towards it and we fail, then it fucking is what it is. but So what? Right?
01:11:26.85
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, I but fail every day.
01:11:33.27
Bill
yeah
01:11:34.03
Mike
Right. Which means that I'm trying. That's, that's the way I look at it. You know, um, you know, I succeed every day as well, but I definitely fall short and I definitely don't live up to what I should, um, but that's okay. I keep trying, and keep plugging away and then, you know, maybe someday I'll get something or I won't. Who gives a fuck? Still trying, still putting in the effort, man.
01:11:54.32
Bill
Right. Yeah.
01:11:56.73
Mike
That's all that matters.
01:11:58.51
Bill
Right. I mean, you know, again, it just that's in, it just occurred to me, you know, is that that fear of failure thing too, that I mean, our lives were just, ah we've talked about it all the time. You know, our lives were just driven by, by constant fucking fear.
01:12:12.41
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:12:12.43
Bill
And now guess what we have? Freedom. We have the, we have the other, well, two other afterwards. Fucking freedom.
01:12:19.72
Mike
Right.
01:12:21.92
Bill
I was speaking to that. I was thinking about trying. I don't know why this made me think of trying new things. I was so, um you know, I obviously, you know, I search around these fucking Airbnb things all the time and every once in a while I get, they'll send me emails like check out this place.
01:12:32.91
Mike
Uh
01:12:35.64
Bill
You might like this place, whatever.
01:12:37.14
Mike
huh.
01:12:37.59
Bill
So um I found this this area that popped up. um I don't even know whats the name of it in a It's a small town in Iowa that has a couple of these like um parks and stuff like that with some like really nice hiking trails and shit like that.
01:12:52.77
Mike
Mm-hmm
01:12:53.55
Bill
And there's like this cheap place. I might actually go there this weekend. um God, we were not recording tomorrow night. It's a four hour drive. I could actually go down tomorrow night, stay there Friday and Saturday night for like next to nothing.
01:13:06.31
Mike
Hmm That's
01:13:08.19
Bill
Muscatine, M-U-S-C-A-T-I-N-E. Have you ever heard of it?
01:13:12.41
Mike
not sounds familiar actually Hmm
01:13:15.27
Bill
I think it, oh, you know why? Um, it's not too far from the, uh, just look, I'm looking at it up on Google maps right now. It's by the I, Iowa 80, the world's largest truck stop.
01:13:27.63
Mike
Ah, there you go. Yes. That's why it sounds familiar.
01:13:31.55
Bill
Yeah. I know it is just a little south of that. It's, uh, I think is that the Mississippi river that runs through there.
01:13:35.97
Mike
Okay.
01:13:38.55
Bill
It's gotta to be, it's like right along the river.
01:13:39.20
Mike
Uh, it's yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, that's a bit farther in, but yeah.
01:13:43.21
Bill
That is.
01:13:47.28
Mike
Yeah.
01:13:48.31
Bill
Yeah, it's a little it's a little south of the truck stop, but yeah, we're it's some like a little bit southwest of there, but um yeah, right on the Illinois and Iowa border is where it is.
01:13:56.66
Mike
right this
01:13:57.63
Bill
um But anyhow, so I'm looking, I'm like, well, we're not recording tomorrow. And when I looked at it, I'm like, it's it's this little, I don't know, this little smallish place, but I mean, it's got, it actually, would have been plenty. I could have actually worked from there. It's got Wi-Fi and cable, ethernet connection, the whole bit. I think it's got a rooftop patio right off of the place.
01:14:16.95
Mike
Right. Huh?
01:14:18.55
Bill
This lady's got a business, so it's in this brick building type of thing. But anyhow, it's right by the river, but there's other places. I'm like, well, fuck it. I might do it.
01:14:27.30
Mike
Yeah Right a Yes Right and be sure to stop at the truck stop because it's kind of cool
01:14:28.26
Bill
I just need to keep an eye on the weather, because it looks like if it's going to be, if it's fucking rain and thunderstorms, I'm not going to drive four hours away to sit in the fucking rain. I can do that here. But anyhow, freedom, you know, like little, ah said it's, and it's not, you know, a ton of money and I can afford it and why the fuck not, but, um,
01:14:50.51
Bill
Yeah. You know what? And I think that, uh, I'll have to take a look at, but I mean, by all means, if I'm, if I'm going to be that close, I didn't even know I was going to scroll up a little bit to see what else was here that I saw it. I'm like, well, that's what you fucking know.
01:14:59.85
Mike
you
01:15:01.20
Bill
I mean, it's just makes perfect sense.
01:15:01.51
Mike
Great. Well, I'm
01:15:03.88
Bill
So, okay. I'm going to pick out, uh, one more from here, just random. I have no idea what this is. Uh, I don't even like that. Maybe even not. I didn't even like that one. Did we talk about choices and consequences at all or no, or the constant between them?
01:15:19.60
Mike
in a roundabout way plenty of times, but, um, I don't know.
01:15:22.10
Bill
Okay, well, this is what I wrote down.
01:15:22.74
Mike
Yeah, go ahead.
01:15:24.68
Bill
I said, let's talk about, I literally wrote down, let's talk about choices and consequences. Hey, Mike.
01:15:29.77
Mike
Alright Right Mm-hmm Right Mm
01:15:31.12
Bill
um But in parentheses, I have both positive and negative choices have consequences, true. ah Maybe the difference in our choices and consequences before and after we got sober, okay. So, um, and even, and once again, I mean, uh, uh, what considers to be, I guess the point with this, which made me think about it, you know, when I say kind of fuck with my brain a little bit, but a little bit is, is thinking that, you know, even when we, we choose something positive, it could still have a, a negative consequence.
01:15:53.87
Mike
-hmm
01:15:57.45
Bill
You know what I mean? If that, uh, if that makes any sense or maybe negative to somebody else. So I don't know, I won't go into it too much, but so what do you think about?
01:16:02.57
Mike
Yeah, yeah, that definitely.
01:16:05.97
Bill
Okay, so choices and consequences. um I don't know, just in general sense prior and now, do you think, um obviously i'm I'm guessing you feel better about choices and consequences now, right?
01:16:17.21
Mike
Oh, yes, absolutely. yeah Right. Well, I mean, you kind of alluded to it, right? Every choice we make has a consequence to it.
01:16:27.14
Bill
Right.
01:16:27.28
Mike
You know, that's just the way things are. Um, right. Every time, every, everything we choose to do, uh, there's going to be some sort of, you know, uh, equal reaction to it. Uh, so if it's a good thing, probably get some good stuff. Uh, if it's bad thing, you probably gonna get some bad stuff. Um, right.
01:16:44.95
Bill
Right.
01:16:47.14
Mike
And, and I liked where you said, you know, maybe our good choices, uh, are bad consequences for other people. Um, yeah.
01:16:55.97
Bill
Right. Yeah.
01:16:57.02
Mike
Right, you know yeah that person that was enabling and controlling and all that, right, we choose to get sober and some bad consequences for some other people. um But and in the grand scheme of things, i' doing good things and doing positive things, um yeah, makes our little corner of the world a better place. And if that makes someone else uncomfortable to be in that corner of the world, there's lots of other corners of this world to go be in. You know, full of shit and misery.
01:17:28.82
Mike
Go be in one of those.
01:17:28.92
Bill
right? Right. Well, and yeah, as you were talking about that, you know, the so we I mean, both of us have had to make some choices, you know, like, ah let's say relationships that I don't necessarily mean, you know, male, female or romantic relationships.
01:17:36.61
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:17:41.53
Mike
Right. Right.
01:17:42.80
Bill
But, you know, both of us have had to for no better way to put it, you know, cut some people off since we got sober or walk away from some people or whatever the case may be.
01:17:47.81
Mike
Yeah.
01:17:50.23
Mike
Mm hmm. Put more distance.
01:17:52.09
Bill
And who knows?
01:17:53.33
Mike
Right. If nothing else.
01:17:54.02
Bill
Yeah, put more distance, yeah, if nothing else or or not be around them as much or not be as open with them, whatever the case may be.
01:17:55.87
Mike
Yeah.
01:17:59.15
Mike
Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
01:18:01.70
Bill
And I mean, granted, that say that's a choice that has consequences that can feel even negative maybe to us to begin with, I think, you know, because it hurts.
01:18:09.80
Mike
Sure. Yeah.
01:18:12.18
Bill
I don't wanna walk away from somebody that I you know care about or we're friends with or whatever the case is.
01:18:13.88
Mike
Right. Mmhmm.
01:18:17.10
Bill
And God forbid, yeah, if it's somebody of a, you know, if it's a romantic type of situation,
01:18:21.22
Mike
Right.
01:18:21.62
Bill
you know But um yeah yeah, I mean, I i've talked about it a couple of times and a couple of you know people, I've just had to say, you know what, if i I know you're drinking or you have been or whatever the case is or this and this, and um if this is the case and if you don't want help, I gotta go.
01:18:30.74
Mike
Mmhmm.
01:18:35.13
Bill
you know and And that first time that happened, it was the hardest thing you know that I ever had to do.
01:18:35.60
Mike
Yeah.
01:18:38.68
Mike
Mmhmm.
01:18:41.84
Bill
and one Probably one of the hardest things sober because I'm like, fuck, I knew what the right thing was, but I'm like, I don't wanna walk away from this shit. you know
01:18:47.84
Mike
Right.
01:18:48.72
Bill
But, um, but yeah, but the other thing too is that I'm sure there's, I mean, our choices, like you said, you know, in the relationship, like Gary's story, thankfully didn't happen with them, but you know, one person gets sober and then you don't have that person taken care of.
01:18:54.48
Mike
Mmhmm.
01:19:02.51
Bill
And that, that positive sober person's choices passed on a negative consequence for the other person, which is is weird, you know, but it is what it is, you know?
01:19:09.10
Mike
right?
01:19:11.94
Mike
Yeah. Well, but it's, it's negative only to them in the sense that they, they're not willing to change and they're continuing to make choices in their lives.
01:19:22.34
Bill
Right.
01:19:25.60
Mike
Um, and they're getting the consequences of that, you know, they're choosing not to change. They're choosing not to be supportive. They're choosing not to, realize that things are different um and And so yes, then they have their consequences of that and yeah, sometimes it's um Yeah, you're doing the right thing and the other person doesn't like that You know, so it's that's their choice and their consequences and yeah, you know, we all affect each other um
01:19:49.60
Bill
Right.
01:19:57.07
Bill
Right.
01:19:58.23
Mike
You know, yes, like you said, you know, I got to walk away and it makes me sad and and it's, it hurts and it's difficult, but it's the best thing for me in the long run. And I've got to remember that, you know, a little bit of pain now is a hell of a lot better than a whole lot of pain for a long time in the future. No, thank you.
01:20:19.70
Bill
Right, right. Yeah, and um I mean, we've, we've been pretty open, you know, on here about, you know, our, our family, which, you know, I mean, this side of the family has become yours for, you know, almost all the years that you've been sober.
01:20:31.48
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:20:33.97
Bill
So it's, you know, you've, you've gotten to experience the, you know, the positiveness, the same as both of us have, have, you know, that We are, and I'll say, I won't even say lucky, I'll just say fortunate that we've had our our family and our you know those people that are close around us that are that are family. um it's It's crazy to me how sometimes, I mean, crazy in a good way, how supportive everyone is when you hear some of the stories out there.
01:20:59.27
Mike
Right.
01:21:01.10
Bill
And I feel for people that you know even even when they've done the work, they've done all this stuff and they can't get the family back. Granted, time takes time and all that stuff. and
01:21:08.80
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:21:09.51
Bill
Sometimes it all comes around, sometimes it never does, but um that's why I say fortunate.
01:21:12.38
Mike
Right.
01:21:13.60
Bill
you know I mean, everyone, all the people that that you and I fucked over.
01:21:19.27
Mike
Right.
01:21:19.88
Bill
And you know I'm not laughing at the fact of what we did, but it's crazy to me that i mean all these people you know that that have you know thankfully gave us an opportunity.
01:21:28.42
Mike
Nope.
01:21:29.14
Bill
And yeah, I mean, it all it's gonna take, what did you say? 20 seconds, right? you know For the the plunger to hit or you know in a down. down half a bottle of wha can take it all away. you know we have that We have the power and the freedom to take it all away, too.
01:21:39.24
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:21:42.91
Mike
Yes, we do. Choices and consequences.
01:21:44.45
Bill
yeah And on that note, I don't think there's any i there's nothing that can top that.
01:21:48.75
Mike
a
01:21:51.81
Bill
So you know what, Mike?
01:21:52.02
Mike
Nope.
01:21:53.24
Bill
I think it's your turn.
01:21:54.28
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. So always be kind to each other. If we could do each other, go out, do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it. Now it's time kids. It is that time. Good Lord, it's that time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with the sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.
01:22:28.57
Bill
Why don't you say good Lord is it that time to fuck off?
01:22:30.80
Mike
Yes it is.
01:22:33.14
Bill
Yeah, it is. It's 827 real time, 727 here in the central.
01:22:36.31
Mike
Yep.
01:22:37.99
Bill
And yeah, it's, ah I don't have much to do you know with this tonight, but I know it's it's late for both of us. So I don't know, once once again.
01:22:43.75
Mike
Nope. And we still get to get up and go to work tomorrow.
01:22:47.03
Bill
Yeah, exactly. I've got, I've got a short date tomorrow. Who knows? I might drive the fucking Iowa tomorrow, but, uh, I don't know.
01:22:51.27
Mike
Nice.
01:22:52.76
Bill
It's, it is what it is, but, uh, I think we've done good work here.
01:22:56.44
Mike
Yes, we have.
01:22:58.26
Bill
So goddamn, goddamn good work.
01:23:00.13
Mike
Right.
01:23:01.32
Bill
Yeah. What's the, what the fuck ever, right? All right, everyone. Um, you know what, Mike, I'll talk to you soon, I think.
01:23:06.49
Mike
Yes, you will.
01:23:07.38
Bill
And I love you, brother.
01:23:08.32
Mike
Love you too.
01:23:09.80
Bill
Bye.
01:23:10.76
Mike
Bye.
