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Happy 4th of July Weekend, from your average friends, Mike and Bill.
Mike started off with his reading and it was about being average. Are we ok with that? Are we making progress and are we better than we were yesterday. Listen in to find out.
We did chit chat about Bill's most recent trip, but then we worked through some cleanup topics.
Coincidences and a higher power, laughter and enjoying yourself in sobriety, keeping out of trouble, reacting verses responding and letting go or hanging on. Which one is more troublesome.
There's more, but as always, you just need to listen.
Enjoy the episode.
Visit us
Podcast www.sobernotmature.com
Store www.sobernotmatureshop.com
00:00:02.35
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another epic jesus fucking christ i don't i don't know i mean apparently i'm not wait okay take two it's not gonna take two it's sober not mature god damn it yeah
00:00:07.97
Mike
i
00:00:11.63
Mike
m yeah
00:00:17.38
Mike
Yeah, we've only done like what 120 some episodes think you know the name of the thing by now I
00:00:24.65
Bill
Yeah, exactly. I know. But it's there was one other time when my voice cracked at the beginning of it. And I wasn't even on the phone all day today. I was out in the woods. And hey, good news, everyone.
00:00:33.59
Mike
hey
00:00:34.69
Bill
I did not get eaten by a bear.
00:00:35.06
Mike
Hey. me
00:00:36.09
Bill
I had no incidences. I'll talk about today later. But yeah, I did not get i did not get eaten by a bear. As Mike and I were talking, I said I didn't get eaten by a bear or anything else. So that's a good thing if your answer was or your response.
00:00:48.93
Mike
It depends on who's doing the eating.
00:00:51.73
Bill
Right.
00:00:52.74
Mike
Might not be such a good thing.
00:00:53.11
Bill
So I didn't get. Right. So yeah, I didn't get, I did not get eaten by anything or anybody.
00:01:00.30
Mike
All right.
00:01:00.85
Bill
How's that?
00:01:02.29
Mike
Well, you know, you win some, you lose some.
00:01:05.21
Bill
I know. Yeah, literally the, as the saying goes, it's a, it's a sales saying every once in a while. I used it in the collection side of it too, is, you know, sometimes, sometimes the, the bear eats you and sometimes you eat the bear and either one happened today.
00:01:15.84
Mike
yes
00:01:16.85
Bill
So no eating of any bears or bears eating these. So all good.
00:01:20.87
Mike
All right. Good to know.
00:01:22.82
Bill
yeah Exactly, but yeah, so and it's fucking 4th of July weekend again. I don't think we we've been mentioned that I mean not that it not that it's a big deal because Our answer to to every fucking holiday is the same right?
00:01:27.64
Mike
Okay.
00:01:35.67
Bill
Just another day Right
00:01:35.64
Mike
Well, actually right just another day right and you know, most of them are made up this one's actually You know, it does commemorate an actual event. So that's good But yeah, but again, it's just another day on the calendar Yeah
00:01:50.52
Bill
Right. But I mean, as far as when it comes to, you know, a sober thing and people getting up, you know, it's the holiday weekend, a lot of people had off today and you know, so four day weekend and people out there, woohoo!
00:02:02.25
Mike
yeah
00:02:03.09
Bill
Woo drinking and woo hooing and, you know, acting a fool.
00:02:04.98
Mike
Yes they are.
00:02:06.23
Bill
So up yeah, but when it comes down to that, I mean, it's but right.
00:02:06.38
Mike
Right. Blowing shit up.
00:02:11.47
Bill
Yeah, I'll talk about the fireworks are out here too, but um so yeah, I mean, it's just, I don't know. I mean, it's by the time people are listening to this, it's gonna be at a minimum July 6th, obviously Saturday, but hey, you know, it's the entire weekend. So don't need to treat it like like any other thing. And if you have events that you are, you know, we're planning on going to and you're unsure, we always say, Mike always says specifically is that, you know what, you always got next year, right?
00:02:35.52
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Always have next year and if you are going to go, have an escape plan.
00:02:40.20
Bill
Yep, exactly. Yeah, be able to and be able to scoot doodle, scoot doodle or skiddaddle.
00:02:45.22
Mike
the
00:02:47.00
Bill
And once again, you know, we talk about that all the time to to this day. um I think both of us still do that. And there's been very, very, I think we've said it before, the only circumstances that we haven't had um a way out individually is when we've been together.
00:02:52.80
Mike
yeah Great.
00:03:02.13
Mike
great
00:03:04.96
Bill
Cuz yeah, cuz it's this thing of it is man If if you go if you know you start acting a fool and you decide to get you know get drunk I'm leaving so I mean I give a fuck Yeah, yeah exactly have fun there have fun there drunk boy Right exactly, but yeah same in return I I know that I would I would not only get the same result but actually deserve the same result so so there I
00:03:05.34
Mike
yeah
00:03:12.35
Mike
Right right there goes my ride. Oh well.
00:03:19.73
Mike
Oh Yeah, right yeah, I don't think so not today Yeah, all right
00:03:32.72
Bill
the
00:03:44.68
Mike
I believe we probably should do a reading.
00:03:49.88
Bill
fifth
00:03:50.80
Mike
Right. Because clearly, when we're left on our to our own devices, we just sit here and ramble on about nothing at all. So let's...
00:03:59.52
Bill
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. four Four minutes into the podcast. And yeah, let's get some structure back, OK? All right.
00:04:05.17
Mike
Okay, sounds good.
00:04:06.41
Bill
Back to you, Mike.
00:04:07.43
Mike
Why thanks bill ah This is uh, this is from keep it simple and it's from today read it this morning and went that's what ain't bad I think I'll do it tonight. And so that's what I'm gonna do July 5th from keep it simple um if at first you don't succeed you're running about average and MH Anderson I tried to look him up and Google wasn't very helpful to me for once. So screw it I don't know who this guy is. But yeah, that's his quote Alright, here's the reading our program speech speaks speaks speaks of spiritual progress not perfection clearly
00:04:49.55
Mike
ah We can take all the time we need. Our bottom line is steady progress. We can ask ourselves, am I a little more spiritual than I was a year ago? A month ago? Or a day ago if the answer is yes, then we're doing great if the answer is no then we should look at why Our illness pushes us to be perfect in recovery We learn that we are free to be just what we are humans Even if the world's fastest runners are average in most other areas of our lives even the most Whoa, let me do that again because that yeah
00:05:28.66
Mike
um Even the world's fastest runners are average in most other areas of their lives. That makes more sense. This is okay. Remember, spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection. Clearly that goes for reading too. Prayer for the day. Higher power. I'll not be ashamed of how average I am. I'll remember I'm average and that's good. Action for the day. Those pesky actions. a List was average about me.
00:05:59.49
Mike
I'll share this with a friend then I'll ask my friend. What is special about me that I won't do Yes, uh-huh
00:06:10.54
Bill
Uh, first of all, I was I was giggling through as you were kind of fumbling over that because you know, I yeah this you know What are we at six six minutes and 20 seconds so far fucked up the intro i'm bumbling all over myself You can't fucking read a book.
00:06:18.39
Mike
Right
00:06:23.66
Bill
We're we're in good shape right now.
00:06:23.80
Mike
right
00:06:24.78
Bill
So Yeah
00:06:24.87
Mike
You heard we're doing great, but you don't do a little bit better than we were yesterday. So what the hell?
00:06:29.23
Bill
yeah Yeah, i feel and you know what? i That's one of the things I wrote down. And um first of all, I like that reading. I read that i read that this morning, obviously. And I i was going to pick something out of there and post it.
00:06:37.49
Mike
yeah
00:06:42.01
Bill
But um I actually posted something from a day at a time. Something stuck out for me a little bit more on on that than this one.
00:06:47.41
Mike
Right.
00:06:48.40
Bill
But um I like the opening quote. you know I mean, basically you know saying that, yeah, I mean, we're we're running about about average. you know
00:06:55.44
Mike
Right.
00:06:55.90
Bill
And that's, there's there's nothing wrong with that. And the couple of things that that the reading talked about is, are disease um either wanting or or striving for perfection?
00:07:08.01
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:07:08.76
Bill
Is that that how that was? And that was kind of the first thing I wanted to talk about because, I mean, um I'm still a perfectionist.
00:07:10.86
Mike
Yeah.
00:07:15.28
Bill
I think you are to a certain extent, I guess, too.
00:07:15.73
Mike
Mm hmm hmm. I mean, clearly not as much as I used to be.
00:07:18.78
Bill
yeah
00:07:20.66
Mike
um Right.
00:07:21.19
Bill
Right.
00:07:22.05
Mike
Well, I mean, I use that perfectionism bullshit as an excuse not to do anything, right?
00:07:28.49
Bill
Right.
00:07:28.59
Mike
Because like, if I can't do it perfectly and clearly I can't because I'm a fucking human. oh Right. So if I can't do it perfectly, then I won't do it at all. I just won't even try. Right. So if I don't try, then I can't fail. And if I don't fail, then I'm not a failure. Um, that was my screwed up thinking back in ye olden days. Um, right. And you know, I mean, ah I used to talk about this in group all the time. And before I. read this book um but yeah you know i i mean i fail every day and that's okay that means that i'm trying um you know i but i'm not saying i completely fail i succeeded plenty of stuff and i do just average it lots more um but yeah you know i do i fail i fall short every day and that's okay um because if i'm not if i'm failing i'm i'm trying
00:08:20.28
Mike
And that means I'm taking action and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.
00:08:20.33
Bill
Right.
00:08:23.40
Mike
And so, yeah, that's, you know, I don't mind falling short today. I don't mind failing it again, but I don't use it as an excuse anymore not to do anything. Well, there's no way in hell I'm going to be able to do that. So I just won't do anything. Um, yeah, and I don't live my life that way today.
00:08:38.06
Bill
Right.
00:08:40.21
Mike
You know, I go out and I do the best I can. And yeah, sometimes I make it and sometimes I don't and whatever. That's what tomorrow's for.
00:08:49.39
Bill
yeah Yeah, and like I said, I mean, I i know I'm still um a bit of a perfectionist, but I think that goes along with my egotism too.
00:08:56.19
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:08:58.33
Bill
it's Those two come in, you know, they're friends.
00:08:58.72
Mike
Sure.
00:09:02.90
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:09:04.44
Bill
They're friendliest with each other. and and it it is it's things that i need to be you know i mean very mindful of because the the perfection you're exactly right i i know i was the same way you know it's like well fuck it i mean i i know i know it's not going to work or it's not going to work the way it needs to or the way i want it to so um fuck it i'm not even going to do it or not going to try
00:09:13.62
Mike
Right.
00:09:23.87
Bill
But then again, you know, it goes back to what I think we talked about this before is, you know, I mean, there's there's fear ah for most people.
00:09:23.83
Mike
right
00:09:31.23
Bill
I mean, even non alcoholics and addicts when it comes to failure, you know, and I think a lot of people look at it that way where whereas, you know, I mean, it It doesn't have to be a colossal failure, you know, like you said and I like the term and you used it a couple of times falling short versus failure You know because that that's really what it is and that's really what this you know What this whole thing we do, you know, whether it's in something actually in Alcoholics Anonymous or something we just learned, you know throughout meetings, but you know it's talked about all the time as far as as far as falling short and But I mean, to your point exactly that we the only way we get better at things and and do things and continue to to grow is to try things.
00:09:43.22
Mike
Right. Right. Mm hmm.
00:10:01.26
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:10:10.55
Bill
And yeah, I mean, rarely, I mean, every once in a while, you know, I'll jump out of the gate on whatever it is, and I get it right the first time.
00:10:16.32
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:10:17.15
Bill
and It's like, fuck, that's kind of that's kind of cool.
00:10:17.50
Mike
Sure. Right.
00:10:20.61
Bill
um But you know, I can't have this literally the fucking delusion that that's going to happen every time I'm okay with being average.
00:10:23.08
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:10:28.57
Bill
I was I was an average student. I was an average athlete I was a you know, kind of an average it pretty much anything in in my life. I haven't necessarily I don't know I mean, I don't know that I've necessarily completely 100 percent excelled in any particular things I'm deep at a lot of things, but I don't know that um, you know, I can't pick out one thing that's like oh that thing I always do
00:10:39.96
Mike
Yeah. yeah
00:10:50.85
Bill
Fucking perfect.
00:10:52.00
Mike
Right.
00:10:52.49
Bill
No, I mean I I don't know Right, right Right
00:10:53.18
Mike
Yeah, exactly. No, then nothing. Right. Exactly. That's kind of the whole point. There is nothing we do perfectly. Never. Yeah. You know, but are you right? Like you said, you know, yeah, there's some stuff I'm good at. There's some stuff I'm pretty damn good at. Um, yeah right. You know, there are a few things. Um, but yeah, most of it, eh, I'm pretty average, you know, occasionally below average. Um, thankfully, you know, um, I, i yeah there's not, and not too much that I have to do that I'm really shitty at.
00:11:17.89
Bill
right
00:11:27.52
Mike
Um, so that's a good thing. That's one of those things to be grateful for, you know, something that, you know, whatever for a job or for, you know, relationships or whatever, something that I have to do.
00:11:30.09
Bill
Right.
00:11:40.15
Mike
There isn't anything that I'm complete garbage at. So. Yeah, it's kind of that's good, you know, and like you said, but most of it's I'm average I'm okay, you know little above sometimes a little below but that's fine Mm
00:11:49.63
Bill
Right.
00:11:53.15
Bill
Right. And yeah, I mean, obviously the, you know, the term progress, not perfection was in there. We use that all the time and we know that that's, that's what we're supposed to strive for. And it talked about steady progress, you know, and hopefully, you know, we are better than we were again, yesterday, a month ago, two years ago, 10 years ago.
00:12:02.18
Mike
-hmm, right Mm
00:12:11.49
Bill
I mean, that's to to us and that's what we were taught, which is, I mean, it's ah it's an easy thing to take from the Alcoholics Anonymous thing or the recovery thing.
00:12:11.58
Mike
-hmm
00:12:21.20
Mike
Mm-hmm
00:12:22.28
Bill
And I mean, if we're we're foolish and we don't put it and into daily life, let's say, okay, so yeah, maybe I'm not, you know, 100% of, again, not perfection, but I'm not really good at this thing, but I'm better than I was a year ago, a month ago, even yesterday, you know.
00:12:34.38
Mike
Yep, mm-hmm
00:12:36.75
Bill
and It is it's that it's that steady progress and same thing we were talking about you know last week you know with but the escalator and going backwards and sitting still and all those sort of things. the only way i mean it's it's so This program we always talk about, it this whole recovery thing. Again, whether it's AA or you're doing another thing, it doesn't really fucking matter. um you know the the nice thing about this is that you know you can you can build on um each date number one but on top of that too is overtime it just becomes it becomes habit but the key there is that we can't stop we said that a thousand times you say that your lead all the time just don't stop you know.
00:13:06.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:13:13.56
Bill
And even if you only do what you did yesterday, because yesterday, yesterday I stayed sober.
00:13:18.42
Mike
right yeah
00:13:20.24
Bill
If I stay sober today, I don't hurt anyone. I don't fuck around with things. I don't do anything. I don't ruin anyone's, you know, time or existence or life or whatever the deal is.
00:13:29.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:13:29.85
Bill
Then I'm at least doing, I'm on the same pace, right?
00:13:33.48
Mike
Yeah, definitely.
00:13:33.84
Bill
Yeah.
00:13:34.64
Mike
Definitely. Yeah. and i Yeah. And try to get a little better. And I mean, it's like you said, you know, yeah, some of it, it gets it gets easier. Well, it's like anything else. You know, you practice, you, you, you build a muscle, you make it stronger, you know, you stop working that muscle. It's going to get weaker. Um, if you continue to use it, it's going to get stronger not instantly but it's slowly and and you know And if you maintain it at least at least you're gonna keep that strength up for today and you know Hopefully you make it a little stronger tomorrow and it's that's what all of this is man It's just practicing it and working it getting a little bit better and making it strong Mm
00:14:13.22
Bill
Right. And then the last thing that I wrote down was not being ashamed of of average. I know that was in the reading. And I mean, that's it's pretty much what we were talking about is that, um I mean, there's nothing there is nothing wrong with being middle of the road, you know, kind of ah under the radar, I don't necessarily need to be a shining star.
00:14:19.45
Mike
-hmm
00:14:27.21
Mike
Great.
00:14:31.67
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:14:31.73
Bill
You know, again, goes back to my egotism. I mentioned that to begin with. and it's great you know i i love to be you know when from a work standpoint uh work standpoint i don't know i don't want to be in the middle of the pack because it means so i'm not going to be there's more things along with it because i mean but it's probably means i'm not going to hit my goal i'm not doing the the job i need to do or living up to my potential type of thing ah but on top of that too it has to do with my income but
00:14:45.76
Mike
Sure.
00:14:52.47
Mike
Right.
00:14:55.25
Bill
um It be a different story i mean if you know if there were in their art you know there aren't like whatever there is a seven seven or eight people in our group if you know four people that were just Crazy fucking good and i mean they've been there for a long time and there's no way i can touch him and i came in number five every month i'd be okay with that you know
00:15:03.74
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:15:14.84
Mike
Right, right.
00:15:15.78
Bill
Well, I don't know. But again, it's ah it's the same thing we were talking about, you know, when um i I wasn't yeah getting upset with where my position and my job was or my my earnings and, you know, where I didn't hit the goal and stuff like that. Then it comes down to if we're ashamed of being average or we're not happy with the progress that we're making, that steady progress, then it comes into, you know, the the lack of gratitude, you know, and that's all fucked up, you know.
00:15:39.54
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Right. And it and it gets back to the the whole better than worse than shit too.
00:15:44.64
Bill
Right.
00:15:44.79
Mike
You know, right. You know, I'm better than that. I'm worse than that. I'm not, you know, that's why I love calling myself a garden variety drunk, you know, who did a bunch of dope. Um, But I mean that's you know, it's really my favorite description of myself.
00:15:55.25
Bill
Haha!
00:15:58.59
Mike
That's what I am. im I wasn't some spectacular fucking, you know ah drug dealing blah blah blah whatever, you know badass out on the streets, of you know bitches and hoes and cars and you know, all that, you know, none of that shit, man. It's a guard.
00:16:15.77
Bill
yeah
00:16:16.33
Mike
And I also wasn't, you know, I mean, yes, I, there were points in my life where I, you know, my name was on a lease. Um, I really didn't have anywhere that was mine that I stayed. Um, you know, I never, I never slept outside. Not really. Um, you know, maybe once or twice, uh, you know, weird circumstances where, you know, but, um, I mean, yeah, you know, I wasn't, wasn't that bad, but I wasn't that great. I was, I'm a garden variety drunk, man. I'm a fucking alcoholic who drank a lot and you know, it all comes down to root of my problem is selfishness and self centeredness.
00:16:52.53
Mike
Um, you know, there wasn't any spectacular highs were any spectacular lows. I'm fucking right there in the middle man. and And yeah, which means that the solution is the same for all of us.
00:16:59.49
Bill
Right.
00:17:05.06
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, and that is the thing though, that in, you know, I know that, you know, society and social media, and it's been that way for, I mean, social media has taken, you know, taken things in a, I dunno, I was going to say a different direction, not really is just a different way to present, you know, the materialism that's out there in the, the less than or better than stuff.
00:17:21.58
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:17:24.18
Bill
And, um, I mean, granted we, it's more in our face than it was when we were kids, you know, from that standpoint, more volume, I guess, if you want to put it that way.
00:17:28.52
Mike
Sure.
00:17:31.86
Mike
Yeah, yeah, it's louder, right?
00:17:34.00
Bill
yeah it is oh yeah there yeah there's no doubt i mean you know cause you can't you can't go on i mean social media without um i mean just and and that's the thing you know so many people don't realize um or don't want to realize for whatever reason that usually social media is just a little snapshot of
00:17:46.88
Mike
Hmm.
00:17:52.25
Bill
of yeah it's a highlight reel you know i heard somebody say that recently and and that's a it's a great way to put it because two the two of the reasons that and i've never done it with the exception the i think the only i don't want to say negative thing but the the probably the biggest down thing that i've ever posted on social media was when um all the stuff we posted after mom died you know and but we took that and we
00:17:54.24
Mike
Right, of course.
00:18:10.60
Mike
Right.
00:18:15.26
Bill
I think at least I the the intention was you know to to take that as and use it as a learning experience for us And for other people, you know, that was that was the mindset behind it.
00:18:17.85
Mike
yeah
00:18:24.00
Mike
Right.
00:18:26.42
Bill
Um, but I've never gone on there and I i've had some days that have been completely motherfucking just just fucked up, you know And I go on social media and say game game.
00:18:30.24
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:18:35.49
Bill
Give my whoever it is, you know
00:18:36.02
Mike
very
00:18:38.42
Bill
My brother, my sit, well, I don't have a brother, but my sister, my kids, my this, my ex, whatever, even if something is happening with that, I just, it's airing out, it used to be, that's years ago.
00:18:43.28
Mike
the
00:18:48.52
Bill
Don't air out your dirty laundry, you know?
00:18:49.99
Mike
That's right.
00:18:51.57
Bill
And it's, it happens so much.
00:18:51.90
Mike
Right. And there's a whole industry on it now.
00:18:55.03
Bill
Yeah, I know, I know.
00:18:55.93
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:18:57.19
Bill
And it is, it's...
00:18:57.19
Mike
And the other thing about all that crap is. Hey, guess what? Just like any other media, it's not fucking real. you know Movies, television, radio, none of it's fucking real.
00:19:04.54
Bill
Right.
00:19:07.71
Mike
It's it's a little sliver of reality and then it's that sliver is taken and enhanced. It's the same with social media, but it's not fucking reality, kids, any of it. So don't don't forget that.
00:19:18.86
Bill
Right?
00:19:20.08
Mike
you know um they're you know They're filming Superman here in Cleveland. Guess what? Superman's not real.
00:19:26.51
Bill
but Wait, what?
00:19:27.66
Mike
I know, I know.
00:19:29.01
Bill
yeah
00:19:29.21
Mike
Clark Kent, but Superman's not.
00:19:31.18
Bill
Right right, but I mean shit even you know probably this I mean well I mean this this podcast probably is is as raw as the two of us ah We we go as oh we get as open and as raw as we're willing to do in a social setting on this thing You know in the same way.
00:19:43.25
Mike
in
00:19:46.08
Mike
Right.
00:19:48.13
Bill
We're not going to air Well, we probably hear a couple more things that we do just and post you know on here.
00:19:51.55
Mike
you Sure.
00:19:53.28
Bill
But um but i mean I think at least I hope that you know people are people are getting to know the real us, but real the real average us.
00:19:59.73
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:20:01.90
Bill
And yeah, I mean, shit, speaking of average, this podcast is is average at best. I mean, yes.
00:20:07.09
Mike
Hmm.
00:20:07.49
Bill
You know, but I mean, it's it's too hard to compare podcasts. Cause you remember the one time that when we were looking at, um, based on the, the longevity now, cause you know, coming up on two and a half years.
00:20:16.29
Mike
All right.
00:20:18.57
Bill
So that's, I mean, we're, we're way ahead. We're like in the top, I think the top 10% of podcasts out there because most people don't, don't go a year, let alone two, you know?
00:20:23.62
Mike
Sure.
00:20:27.69
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:20:29.00
Bill
So we have that. So we just, we stuck around.
00:20:32.26
Mike
Which is nice.
00:20:33.49
Bill
Yeah, which is nice. Um, so we just, yeah, stuck around long enough. But, you know, again, listener base and things like that, all the sort of things, we don't have the numbers, but we have the people that are, that are genuine and loyal, which is what we're trying to be.
00:20:37.50
Mike
Yeah.
00:20:45.92
Bill
I think, you know, so I guess it fits, you know?
00:20:49.21
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know it it again. It's kind of what we are right where we're consistent and we're averaging, you know, but tenacious if nothing else.
00:20:57.93
Bill
Yeah.
00:21:01.01
Bill
Right. Yeah. One, one way or the other. I mean, you know, like that, that motherfucker that first year, you know, 90% of podcasts fail. That was, that was our fuel.
00:21:10.16
Mike
Right. Well, yeah, 95% of sobriety doesn't make it. So yeah, same shit, man.
00:21:17.38
Bill
Yeah.
00:21:18.67
Mike
We'll show you. Spite. Spite pizza and making our beds.
00:21:20.57
Bill
yeah
00:21:21.91
Mike
That's it.
00:21:23.56
Bill
Yeah, and that' kind I still can't i can't remember how long ago it was now when that when that guy approached me again, you know sent me an email or something like that trying to get us to, hey, would you like to do this? I'm like, I remember you.
00:21:36.38
Mike
Yep.
00:21:36.89
Bill
Yeah. Fucking prick. yeah But, uh, now anyhow, so that, yeah, that was a good reading.
00:21:38.35
Mike
ye
00:21:42.23
Bill
I like that one. And it really, I mean, what it, what it all boils down to is that, uh, you know, it's just, it's just consistency.
00:21:43.30
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:21:48.54
Bill
It's doing the same thing every day and just trying to, you know, as you always say, trying to make our little quarter of the world a better place. Right.
00:21:54.72
Mike
Mm hmm. Absolutely. And and you know, it's it's kind of nice being in the middle. It's it's, you know, while we talk plenty about balance on this thing. Um,
00:22:03.90
Bill
Right.
00:22:04.44
Mike
Yeah. And that's just it, man. you I don't want to be the greatest. I don't want to be the worst. And Hey, guess what? I am neither of those things and never will be. So I brace my averageism.
00:22:16.92
Bill
Brace your averageism. I like that. Let's look that up. If you if anyone can find that word anywhere, averageism, I like it though.
00:22:25.78
Mike
Yes.
00:22:28.05
Bill
But to oh, I was gonna tell you when we first started after I got everything all set up um I lost I lost my internet connection here for like, I don't know. It was only like 10 seconds or something like that But I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? It hasn't obviously it was only the one time after I set up but just kind of a heads up I was gonna tell you that in case something something popped out, but I Don't know.
00:22:48.35
Mike
Right.
00:22:49.83
Bill
I mean but I'll tell you more about this place in a minute But so are we good are we good on the reading everything kind of covered on it?
00:22:55.76
Mike
I believe we've ah averagely covered it.
00:22:58.96
Bill
yeah We've hit our hit our average conversation on it, right?
00:23:04.05
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:05.21
Bill
So, um and I just remembered, with the weekend, did you say that you were going to be, were you in a parade or going to a parade?
00:23:11.07
Mike
Yeah, I was in a parade yesterday, fourth of July.
00:23:14.33
Bill
Okay, well, I'm putting my pen down. I want to hear about this one.
00:23:17.73
Mike
I mean, it's not a huge thing. ah It's fairly average, no. um It was ah yeah Chris, as I've talked about, my girlfriend, she works for the city of Cleveland now. She's been there about six months or so. And the biggest, I mean, there's lots of little parades all over the Cleveland area for the 4th of July. um But the main one in Cleveland is over here on the west side, Camp's Corners. um And ah yeah, there's a contingent of city workers that march as a group.
00:23:52.99
Mike
And Chris signed up for it, and she volunteered me to do it as well. So I got a nifty dark blue city of Cleveland t-shirt out of the deal.
00:23:59.04
Bill
Ugh.
00:24:04.90
Mike
And I got to throw candy at kids' heads so there as we marched. It was pretty damn fun. um Yeah, you know, it was like, uh, about a mile and a half long and, uh, you know, took us a little over an hour to do. And, um, yeah, it was, you know, we got there early in the morning and it was hot and muggy and nasty out. Um, but at least the sun wasn't beating on us. It was slightly cloudy and, uh, yeah, it was fun. You know, like I said, they we had tons of bags of candy and that's what we did. We walked and marched and waved and threw candy at kids.
00:24:43.70
Bill
So on, on that are, well, clearly, I mean, I know the answer because you just said it, but, um, in, I know in parades in Wisconsin, at least in the communities around Milwaukee, um, ah throwing candy was banned a while ago.
00:24:52.94
Mike
Oh, right.
00:24:58.39
Mike
Ah, hmm.
00:24:59.64
Bill
You know, because, you know, they, again, I don't know if kids were getting hit in the eyes or whatever the case was.
00:25:03.39
Mike
Chris hit a kid and it stuck in her glasses. It was pretty damn funny.
00:25:07.67
Bill
ah Yeah, but I mean they used to you know all the parades and it probably I'm trying to think handful of years ago You know in a minimum now shit about you'd be longer than that But um, so basically what they'll what they'll do is, you know They'll just kind of walk along and they'll kind of like dump some on the street, you know Not in the middle but you know towards the curb and then the kids have to run out like a bunch of fucking ants or something like that
00:25:24.66
Mike
Right.
00:25:27.30
Mike
Right. Well, that was, that was mostly what we were doing. I mean, we weren't, you know, I said we were throwing up the kids and I did throw them kind of directly sometimes, but, um, yeah, that was mostly toss them towards, they were, you know, lined up on the curbs and stuff. So yeah, it was curb gutter kind of action, but yeah, you know, I got a few shots in.
00:25:41.91
Bill
right yeah it just ah it it is cool i mean you know just ah being i i don't know i i haven't been to there i know some people i've met people that just either really love parades or fucking hate them there doesn't like seem to be an average getting back to that but
00:25:47.01
Mike
It was fun.
00:26:00.55
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Right.
00:26:06.08
Bill
But I mean, um I'm kind of an average one when it comes to parades. When I was drinking, there used to be, there was this one in Menominee Falls where where Dawn and I lived and where were you and I had um dinner at that Greek family, Greek restaurant when you're up there.
00:26:19.34
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:26:20.93
Bill
That's, I mean, not only Menominee Falls, but right there in that grocery, there's a grocery store parking lot right across the street from that.
00:26:26.71
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:28.60
Bill
That's where, you know, a lot of the people used to set up. That was like the center of the, you know, like the parade area. But that parade, it's, it is kind of a big deal.
00:26:34.36
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:37.34
Bill
It's a big parade. There's a lot of people, people come in and I mean, there's tons, I mean, thousands of fucking people there.
00:26:42.92
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:43.72
Bill
But the way they used to do it was you could go up like, so 4th of July was on a Thursday. I think as of the way it used to be, it's like as of, I don't know, Wednesday morning, you could like stake out your place, you know.
00:26:56.10
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:57.00
Bill
And it was it was crazy cuz you go along there and it was always on the i'm sorry is on the third of july that they have no i'm sorry they didn't have another fourth either way but i'm. She could stake all this shit out you know like whatever it was a day and a half early and it was crazy you know so it. the one time when Dawn and I were together I was I was working remotely and I went up there and same thing fucking sticks and steaks and fucking rope and you know while we were at that time I mean I was still drinking so it was like you know we'd bring up a bunch of booze we sit around and I had these you know like when the kids were little I had these remote control cars were busted remote control cars once they closed the road it was it was a party same thing and Sussex where her parents lived
00:27:39.15
Bill
um And I think I've been to I've went to one maybe two in Germantown and the one time I just went up to the one in Germantown because um ah Dawn and Corey went up there and Derek was there and they had they had the dog and you know I just walked up the street and hung out with them it I didn't really care much about the parade you know it's just hanging out with people I think you know
00:27:42.03
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:27:59.44
Mike
Right.
00:28:02.27
Bill
but i don't know i mean it's uh i've never i don't think i've ever been in a parade oh band years ago washington washington d.c we marched in the uh cherry blossom parade which is kind of fun so yeah i don't i don't remember how how we even got you know invited out there but um cam our entire band went out there again probably kind of a big deal i suppose that the you know even now these days but uh it was fun we got a trip to dc out of it so
00:28:07.69
Mike
Right.
00:28:11.89
Mike
Ah, that's cool. Yeah.
00:28:23.78
Mike
Yeah.
00:28:27.97
Mike
That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, it was, you know, it was there was a couple bands, marching bands, and there was, ah you know, the kid of the scouts and some local businesses. Of course, all the local politicians had their contingencies and, you know, blah, blah, blah.
00:28:41.73
Bill
All right.
00:28:44.36
Mike
Yeah. It was, it was fun. It was fun. You know, probably do it again next year.
00:28:47.27
Bill
That's cool.
00:28:50.78
Bill
You're funny, I'd probably do it again next year. But no, I mean, I think that's and not only cool, but I think it's ah it's, I don't know, would you consider that a ah way of giving back? I mean, whether it's to, you know, to to Chris or the city, maybe not the city directly, but doing something for somebody else, right?
00:29:06.03
Mike
yeah Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, she I mean she was taking me to for coming out and I was so you do my crap I'm gonna do your craft. That's how this works That's right Yeah, and you know and being part of the community sure what the hell man I get to do that now I'm a fucking citizen these days right tax paying land owning white mail and
00:29:16.03
Bill
Yeah. That whole, that whole give and take, right? yeah so
00:29:32.61
Bill
right yeah Right. So did you, did you do um any fireworks or no? Or they, you know, did you say no?
00:29:37.39
Mike
No, now I mean yeah no, I don't now I didn't um actually Lydia was out with a friend of hers out East and Chris just went home and did some yard work and stuff and I laid here watch the baseball game and
00:29:40.07
Bill
Oh, okay.
00:29:54.12
Mike
went and got myself a chili dog and yeah, Yippee waved a flag and I was done. Um, now and didn't do shit. You know, I had to work today and it was, it was a Thursday. I just happened to have that day off. So yeah, yeah.
00:30:07.96
Bill
Right.
00:30:09.20
Mike
You know, I didn't do anything. I didn't even, I literally, it was kind of rainy last night. So, I mean, cause you know, here in Cleveland, you know, the the big ones over the lake, the big fireworks displays over the lake.
00:30:14.66
Bill
Oh.
00:30:20.37
Mike
Um, I haven't gone to that and shit, 12 years. Um, and, um, yeah, you know, in the neighborhoods, I mean, people blow off all kinds of shit and, you know, I'll usually step out of my back balcony and, and, you know, watch the stuff around the neighborhood. I didn't even bother with that last night. You know, I can hear them and I've seen fireworks before, you know, man yeah, I was good.
00:30:42.70
Bill
Right. Well, there was a place that i had I had, I guess, kind of mapped it out before I came down here. When I when i had first booked this place, I don't know, I was looking up something and I saw the community events. I'm like, oh, it didn't look like it was that far. And ah when i when I got down here, first of all, when I got down here yesterday, it for whatever reason, and I mean, it was nine hours. It wasn't anything out of the ordinary, but it seemed long. But it's like the last three three trips I've taken I went to Iowa there was four I was in Wisconsin and I was out by you know out Cleveland for for Founders Day So you're talking four to five hour trips.
00:31:07.41
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:31:17.72
Bill
I haven't done a long one in a while my cash. Yeah, this is fucking long drive Which it it wasn't you know, but um as I started to get down here, I'm like man, it's fucking hot It was no shit.
00:31:23.44
Mike
Right.
00:31:27.83
Mike
Mm.
00:31:28.24
Bill
It was a fucking hundred degrees by by the time I got down here and and and i'm like jesus christ man because i i'm looking at the temperature on my car i'm like that can't be fucking right and then i pulled it up on the weather i'm like oh yeah it sure as fuck was but and it was it was hot last night it cooled down it was i don't know probably in the mid 80s today so comfortable you know i mean not not as bad but um
00:31:37.19
Mike
Mm
00:31:49.19
Bill
I went up, I went to grab some food at the grocery store and I came back and cooked my dinner and um I'm like, you know what?
00:31:49.53
Mike
-hmm.
00:31:55.82
Bill
I'm like, fuck it. I'm going to go try to see a sunset. I'm like, fuck these fireworks. I'm not going to try to dick around with traffic or whatever, or even try to walk over and figure out where that goes. So um took a little bit of a drive and it was got overcast. We didn't see the sunset But by the time I got back here like, you know what? I'm like it as I was pulling into the the street where this is which is like three blocks down We're like one of the main roads is you know people were kind of like posted up in this parking lot They'll across this other thing.
00:32:20.19
Mike
Mmhmm.
00:32:23.65
Bill
and I'm like, oh shit You could do you just sit there because the other place was like a 15-minute walk where they'll shoot them off and So I just walked down.
00:32:26.00
Mike
Bye.
00:32:30.81
Bill
I mean there's they weren't supposed to start until like 9 30 So i'm just i'm just sitting here and thinking how do I want to do it?
00:32:34.77
Mike
Sure.
00:32:37.69
Bill
when and It's like 8 30 or quarter to nine and then I I hear it again in the neighborhood There's fucking fireworks going off all over the neighborhood All good.
00:32:39.63
Mike
Mmhmm.
00:32:45.19
Bill
It's fine um But then I started here bigger ones and I kind of look out I'm like fuck they're starting already like 45 minutes early they started them But it looked like rain was coming in so I'm sure they just you know jumped on it So so I went down there and you know a bunch of people just hanging out and I sat like on this You know like one and running of these guard whales and had kind of a nice view of it and same thing I mean, yes, I've seen fireworks before but it was a decent view and So they go through this thing and whatever and you know at that point I i got down there and it's like 15 minutes worth of fireworks and they do this you know what what to me seemed like the the pre grand finale right?
00:32:57.69
Mike
right
00:33:17.11
Mike
Right. Okay.
00:33:22.55
Bill
I mean it's got got some stuff got a few things going up we all know what it is and then you you know there's usually a pause and then you know they go fucking psycho right and then it's like boom boom and you feel the shit in your chest and all this different stuff when they paused that was it
00:33:30.85
Mike
Right.
00:33:37.33
Mike
yeah
00:33:39.52
Bill
And I'm like, I'm sitting there and then everyone around is like looking around and I'm just sitting there for a minute. and I'm like, that that's it. That's it.
00:33:48.13
Mike
That's it. That's all you get.
00:33:49.28
Bill
I was like, I'm like, that was, that was terrible. That was, that was awful. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the fucking deal was, but, but then yeah, by the time I got, I got back here, same thing for another, I mean, you know, I was watching TV and whatever, and I i went to bed, I don't know, like 11 o'clock or 11 30. And then it started, I mean, there's, again, these big boom and fireworks. I, whatever these fucking people have around here, they had some, people spent some money on that. There was booming, like booming shit, you know?
00:34:16.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:34:19.17
Bill
But then, you know, finally it started raining.
00:34:19.19
Mike
Right.
00:34:21.51
Bill
I'm like, good. I'm like, okay, now I can go to, I can get some fucking sleep, you know, because the people got rained out, but it was fine.
00:34:22.97
Mike
Right.
00:34:30.55
Bill
It was, it was, it was good. You know, just, again, you know, fireworks and fireworks have the same old shit, but I'm like, like, eh, just like anything else.
00:34:32.17
Mike
Right.
00:34:37.47
Bill
Let's check out what these, what are these fucking Arkansas fireworks are? Well, I'll tell you everyone, fucking terrible.
00:34:41.06
Mike
Hehehehehehe.
00:34:43.83
Bill
It was, it was fucking terrible. Just terrible.
00:34:47.02
Mike
Yeah, well, I mean, you're not exactly in a major metropolitan area either. So, you know, they they probably don't have the biggest budget in the world.
00:34:54.33
Bill
Yeah, the and it's a good point. I guess I didn't really really think about that that much. and yeah i don't i mean this So the town itself, um you know kind of a cute little town in the like the neighborhood area that I'm in, the the house that I rented, it's like like up on this big hill when you look at it.
00:35:02.88
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:35:09.72
Bill
i mean the The road is a pretty big incline up from where from where I am going going up the hill. um And then you know kind of this decent neighborhood in the same thing as I'm it's not is I don't want to say bad But it's not under the same categories where I was in Texas where they see some of these fucking rundown mobile homes And then nice houses and this and that a couple of rundown ones a lot of older homes This one is this one's just as tiny little older home not a place.
00:35:27.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:35:35.50
Bill
I'd want to be more than a few days um You know, and I don't think I would have i don't think i would have rented this if it was you know long even a week you know because well first of all they've got it's got like one of those um there's that central air which is fine it's not a big deal but they have you know what those mr cool air conditioners are the ones that are kind of up on the wall and you'll have vents that just kind of flow back and forth i'm sure you've seen them they haven't been a lot of small buildings and in that sort of thing but
00:35:43.91
Mike
Right.
00:35:47.61
Mike
Hmm.
00:35:59.16
Mike
Yeah.
00:36:02.73
Bill
So that's in the kitchen, that pretty much it, the living room where I'm sitting right now is a little warmer, you know, of course in the kitchen, but it's fine. um But upstairs, it's like attic area, right?
00:36:11.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:36:13.91
Bill
So they have a wall air conditioner, um but it doesn't keep up like yesterday, it was it was warm up there. But after everything cooled down I woke up at I don't know like three in the morning. I was fucking cold. I'm like Jesus Christ yeah um But then these these stairs they're like really steep and I mean literally I it's almost like I can't walk up the stairs you can't walk in the the doorway to the bottom and there's like as you're walking down literally a picture of a duck on there and You know because I I think if you were five feet tall you'd be able to walk up and down those stairs without without hitting it I'm six two and there's no fucking way but they're steep and like the first step takee is a little bit farther down I'm like like i've taken my time.
00:36:25.03
Mike
first
00:36:41.22
Mike
Mm hmm. All right.
00:36:54.30
Mike
Mm
00:36:54.95
Bill
I don't need to fall up or down these goddamn stairs Um, it's fine.
00:36:58.68
Mike
hmm.
00:37:00.02
Bill
yeah I mean it's fine kind of a small bathroom. This is ah the whole bit. You know, it just it's it's an older home, but I mean it's it's it's cool i mean it's comfortable and everything like that but um like i said i don't think i'd want to be here you know for a long-term thing but uh it's nice i mean it's a place i went today and i'll talk about that in a minute but i think we're probably close to taking a break but um it's it's fucking beautiful around here same deal you know as i i went by branson again drove drove by i was laughing my ass off i'm coming up by branson and there's a fucking yakov theater go off the highway
00:37:31.47
Mike
Yeah.
00:37:32.36
Bill
I'm laughing my ass off. I'm like, Oh shit.
00:37:34.02
Mike
Alright.
00:37:34.89
Bill
I'm like, I was there.
00:37:38.72
Bill
But you know, it's funny. So last thing before taking a quick break, but I went up to, I went up to Walmart said like, I can go to Walmart, get all the shit I need. I can get some actual groceries and meet whatever there. I'm driving up this one road. It's like they're, they're business highway that goes up or again, all the, all the fast food places, other stores or whatever.
00:37:51.54
Mike
Mhm.
00:37:57.51
Bill
I'm driving up there. I'm like, why does this fucking look familiar? you know And I'm like, I've never been here before you know in my life.
00:38:01.71
Mike
Mhm.
00:38:05.23
Mike
Right.
00:38:05.31
Bill
So I'm like, why does this look familiar? And then I pull up to this intersection and I see this Casey's gas station, then a shell across the street. I'm like, motherfucker. I said, I came through here when I went to Branson. they When I came up from Texas, they routed me up this whatever, I think it's Highway 65, but it comes through.
00:38:19.81
Mike
Mhm.
00:38:24.36
Bill
the outskirts of this town, so I was ah would literally here like a month ago.
00:38:28.56
Mike
That.
00:38:30.26
Bill
And I'm like, I had no, I had no idea that I was actually in Harrison like a month ago. So, but you know how it is, you see something, you're like, there's there's no way I've ever been here.
00:38:39.32
Mike
right yeah let's take a break all right we'll be more we'll be back with more of this exciting travelogue right after these words from our sponsor
00:38:40.26
Bill
You know, I don't know why it looks familiar, but it seems like it does. But yeah, so I mean, again, again, the town sits small, it's quaint, it's, it's whatever. But um yeah, it's cool enough. But I had fun hiking today, but I can talk about that in a minute. So for now, what do you think break time?
00:39:13.21
Bill
all right everyone welcome back yeah yes this kind of turns into every once in a while yeah it does kind of turn into a travel log right yeah but you know what it is i don't know it's kind of it's fun i'm having a good time and gives us some content to talk about so i'll make i'll make this brief we we know i didn't get eaten by a bear we know that we know i didn't get eaten by anything
00:39:21.10
Mike
Mhm.
00:39:33.37
Mike
Right. Mhm.
00:39:35.25
Bill
Um, I haven't had a chance to post any of the the pictures on instagram yet, but um, i'll tell you what I this morning I walked down or the first place I went um Right down to uh, you can pull in this parking lot walk down. That's where people put in their Kayaks and canoes and tubes and then they got swimming areas. I these these bluffs. fuck Oh my god, they're fucking crazy
00:39:57.84
Mike
Hmm.
00:39:58.10
Bill
You know and the river level is kind of low So I was able to walk down quite a bit right along the river And then I went down like this one trail got some pictures in there that went down this other trail That was supposed to be to this like, um, it's off this campground another area again with bluffs and stuff like that these people swimming and Climbing up and jumping off into the water. It's just I mean look actually look like a lot of fun But this trail that I went down which is the main this main trail that won that 37 mile trail, whatever it was
00:40:26.19
Mike
Right, right.
00:40:27.03
Bill
i think i walked um because i saw a sign from this campground that i that i went to um and there was like this scenic overlook i'm like oh that's cool it's like 1.7 miles out i'm like i can do that i'll go out there and i'll come back well i read about this and now i see what they're talking about that um this time of year
00:40:39.72
Mike
Right.
00:40:46.34
Bill
the You can't really see from this trail, um you can't really see the river. You can see it, but too many leaves and and all that sort of stuff.
00:40:53.57
Mike
Right.
00:40:54.16
Bill
so um you know and i I get to one thing, I'm like, is this where the scenic overlooks supposed to be?
00:40:54.16
Mike
Yeah.
00:40:59.10
Bill
I walk a little bit further. Is this where it's supposed to be?
00:41:01.94
Mike
even
00:41:02.48
Bill
ah Because it's all fucking grown over but the other here's my other opinion of that trail at least the part that I went on I'm gonna go somewhere else maybe a different part of it tomorrow. Um, but Is that it and I don't know if this makes any sense But it it seems to me that this trail is like it's it's a travel trail, you know It's for because they have these things, you know go from this point to this point go from this point to this point and i think every whatever it is probably every seven to ten miles they've got a campground you know so it's it's meant for that it seems to me that it's meant for that it's not that it's not cool it's not pretty and there's different things to look at but um it really is it just seems it almost just seems like the this trail is made for traveling we're getting from one place to another you know type of thing
00:41:30.33
Mike
Hmm.
00:41:45.96
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:41:46.99
Bill
Yeah, it's fine. You know, it's not a problem. But you know, just it wasn't as much in my opinion, there wasn't as much to see.
00:41:54.11
Mike
Hmm.
00:41:54.40
Bill
The river itself is fucking spectacular. I mean, it's I just can't look at these bluffs and and all that shit down there. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's fucking crazy. Oh, question for you.
00:42:05.81
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:42:06.05
Bill
um How how long do you think it takes for a a spider web to be constructed?
00:42:15.03
Mike
Um, I mean, it depends on a lot of things, but, um, I dunno. I mean, they could do it in a few hours or a day or so.
00:42:25.24
Bill
Okay.
00:42:25.22
Mike
Yeah.
00:42:26.08
Bill
Cause I, I really didn't know, but, um, as I'm walking along this, again, this travel trail, I'm like, you know, I hit a cobweb like half fuck that hit another one on my arms or whatever.
00:42:30.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:42:34.73
Bill
I'm like, yeah, wiping off. And then I'm hitting it like every seems like every 50 yards or something like that. I'm fucking right in my face. The one I was looking to the side and I start walking forward, literally walked right face first into the spider in the spider web.
00:42:49.67
Mike
Nice.
00:42:50.52
Bill
And I'm like, fuck me. I'm like, yeah so that I started carrying a stick in front of me and just there was spider webs all on there so the reason I was asking timing is I'm like okay have people like not been through here in days there was nobody on I ran across nobody on the trail no one and probably again you know mile and a half out mile and a half back
00:42:57.96
Mike
who Yeah. yeah
00:43:10.19
Bill
um A lot of people don't like the swimming holes and shit like that. But then there was just I have not literally ran into so many spider webs. Number one in my life.
00:43:20.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:43:20.65
Bill
But certainly not since I've been doing this. And I'm like, I'm like, I wonder if you know that how long it takes to because I'm the way back clearly. I mean, there was I cleared it all out. I they're all over my fucking face and hair and every other part of me.
00:43:28.96
Mike
Right.
00:43:33.76
Bill
But um yeah, I don't know.
00:43:34.58
Mike
Yeah.
00:43:35.82
Bill
It was, I, it's beautiful. It's wonderful. It just, um, like I say, it just seems it, I don't know if there's no better way to put it. It just seems like a, a travel trail. I don't know.
00:43:45.90
Mike
ah Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, technically that's what all trails are and roads and highways and right.
00:43:54.09
Bill
Right.
00:43:55.15
Mike
How to get from one place to another.
00:43:57.67
Bill
Well, and maybe a lot of the trails that I've been on, there are there's they call um some of the trails are one way. They just go to a certain point and they they stop and they and you can come back. And then other ones are loop trails.
00:44:10.11
Mike
Right.
00:44:11.87
Bill
So literally you're walking in a big loop around you know some loops.
00:44:14.14
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:44:15.23
Bill
I'll say smaller trails, but I mean, yeah, this one is, it's just, it's it's like the freeway, you know? I mean, you're just going from one place to another.
00:44:20.21
Mike
Yep.
00:44:22.91
Bill
I'm sure, well, there was one, i there was like a jut to go to another trail or something like that that I ran across. But um but yeah, to to your point, I mean, that that's literally what this is. I'm sure for you know years and years, that's how people you know people got got to where they were going, you know walking through these damn trails.
00:44:35.05
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. he Yeah.
00:44:42.20
Bill
but But yeah, so it's, uh, it's, it's beautiful. I mean, I'm going to go, there's a cup, there's another place. It's like, I don't know, 45 minutes away that one of the places I ran across. And again, while I'm here, it's supposed to be pretty picturesque. So I might be, might do that. so
00:44:56.62
Mike
Go. Hey, yeah get out there and walk around.
00:44:59.52
Bill
So.
00:44:59.50
Mike
I will be staying inside of my house.
00:45:01.88
Bill
Right. yeah Um, but, uh, yeah, I'll try not to get eaten by a bear or anything else ca tomorrow. Also.
00:45:09.16
Mike
Sounds like a good plan.
00:45:11.99
Bill
All right, so um one thing, this is the first time I think in in a long, long time, unless we had a guest where I didn't write down any new stuff and I thought about it, I'm like, you know, I got so many things on here. I'm just going to start, maybe even over the next couple of weeks, we'll just start clearing out some of this old stuff.
00:45:27.29
Mike
Yeah.
00:45:27.52
Bill
um And a lot of it is, I mean, obviously it's all sober shit, majority of it, so.
00:45:31.52
Mike
Right. That's good.
00:45:32.74
Bill
um yeah Yeah we talked about all the travel stuff so um who knows we may have talked about some of these things if it if it's you know things we talked about we won't talk about it again so. All right, so do you agree with coincidences? Coincidences, and I'll qualify that. It was in um a day at a time. It says showing up at the right place at exactly the right time, phoning a friend who unbeknownst to you, you know desperately needed a particular phone call at that particular moment, um hearing my story, quote unquote, at an unfamiliar meeting in a strange town.
00:46:02.12
Mike
Mhm.
00:46:08.19
Bill
Do you think um it's a higher power thing? Do you think it's a coincidence thing? What do you think about those type of things?
00:46:12.56
Mike
I don't.
00:46:16.65
Bill
but yeah yeah
00:46:20.11
Mike
Um, yeah. i't i i Well, as an atheist, it's clearly not a higher power thing. Um, uh, right place, right time. Um, I dunno, it's, it's being open to hearing things and having other people being open to you know, ah getting what they need out of this world. um You know, you can miss a lot of shit too. If you're not open to it, you know, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff that I need to need to hear or needed to hear or will need to hear that I will miss.
00:46:44.32
Bill
Right.
00:46:55.34
Mike
oh You know, that's just that whatever. um If I'm paying attention, though, um there's a good chance that I will catch something that I can relate to and will help me along this little journey of mine. Um, yeah, you know, um, dad coincidence high, you know, I, like I said, I don't think about it.
00:47:07.27
Bill
Right.
00:47:14.05
Mike
Um, I, I, I keep myself as open as I can to catch things that I may or may not need. And, um, hopefully people around me do that as well. So maybe if I'm running my mouth that they'll catch something that they need. Um, but that's not up to me.
00:47:30.21
Bill
Right.
00:47:30.31
Mike
Okay.
00:47:31.42
Bill
Right. But you know, even if you don't, um in and that's a, and that's the reason I brought that up. And I, and I know you don't believe in, you know, the, and we joke about that, you know, the universe and this and that, or, you know, these, when people say they're, they're God shots or whatever the fuck people call them.
00:47:41.22
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.
00:47:45.86
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.
00:47:47.47
Bill
Again, all that, fine.
00:47:49.24
Mike
All right.
00:47:49.29
Bill
Do you think what you want?
00:47:50.19
Mike
If that works for you, sure.
00:47:50.37
Bill
All that stuff? I don't, I don't care. Right.
00:47:52.81
Mike
But that's you being open to the shit to catch it.
00:47:52.96
Bill
You know, but
00:47:55.50
Mike
Because trust me, if you're not open to it, you're not going to catch it. I don't give a fuck who you think is running the show.
00:48:01.20
Bill
right in in that was that was kinda what i was getting to is because that even though you don't consciously think about it you do something with your life to make sure that you're available for for those things for those moments you know in they don't necessarily have to be
00:48:10.99
Mike
Right. Right.
00:48:18.36
Bill
It doesn't have to be you know a coincidence. doesn't There doesn't even have to be a label put on any of it. you know um Again, making the phone call and that sort of thing.
00:48:23.52
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:48:26.69
Bill
you know Or somebody's like, I was just thinking about you. Well, what a weird coincidence. you know i mean That sort of thing.
00:48:30.51
Mike
Right.
00:48:31.70
Bill
um you know Somebody in in the same thing. I've had that happen a lot. I walk into a meeting, you know and you know i we hear it in the rooms all the time. you know I needed to hear that tonight. i you know id I was thinking about this, and then I show up at a meeting, and this is talked about.
00:48:42.24
Mike
Mm-hmm, right Right
00:48:46.38
Bill
um but But again, to your point, and I'm glad you put it that way, because I didn't think about that, is that being open to it, I'm sure, not even sure. I know for a fact, for years people were telling me things about it. I'm not even talking about just my drinking, but you know people were giving me advice and direction um about life you know for years.
00:49:09.48
Mike
who right
00:49:12.10
Bill
and i I didn't hear it. I didn't want to hear it or didn't didn't have my mind open enough to really take it in.
00:49:14.51
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:49:18.24
Bill
which also goes back right to us planting seeds like you said if you're wrapping you know flapping your gums you know if you say something that maybe it plants a seed with somebody and they're like hey okay you know somewhere down the road right.
00:49:23.13
Mike
Right.
00:49:28.22
Mike
right Right. Exactly. Yeah. All right. Yeah, right. They run into whatever in their life and they go, oh, shit, man, that that dude over there was talking about that. I remember that. Oh, hell, I maybe I know how to handle this because some I heard somebody talk about it before. Right. Again, it's it's being over and to your point, get off your ass and going to that meeting to be able to hear that thing. um You know, yes, we have to take actions. We are responsible for our own destiny. and If we you know, I lock myself in a room and don't listen to anybody.
00:50:02.41
Mike
I'm not gonna fucking hear anything Mm
00:50:04.43
Bill
Right. Yeah, I just I'm like I said, I'm I'm glad you I'm glad you explained it that way because that really did that my mind was open to hear it.
00:50:14.65
Mike
-hmm. Yeah, right Exactly.
00:50:16.06
Bill
Apparently.
00:50:17.89
Mike
Yeah, right Exactly. And I mean I could go to a meeting and and not pay attention and not you know Whatever sit there on my phone which plenty of people do
00:50:27.31
Bill
Right.
00:50:27.33
Mike
i Yeah. And, uh, yeah, you're going to miss it, man. got You've got to do the the groundwork. You've got to make yourself available for the shit. Otherwise you're not going to get any of it. I don't care who you think is running it.
00:50:37.44
Bill
Right.
00:50:39.08
Mike
Right.
00:50:40.04
Bill
Yeah. And that's I mean, that that's a great point. That's ah actually a really, really good point. You know, it did regardless of whether it's a um yeah, and somebody believes in the man in the sky or it's Buddhism or it's whatever the whatever the deal is, whatever people believe in. If you're not open to taking the information, you're not going to hear it anyhow.
00:50:57.47
Mike
Exactly.
00:50:58.98
Bill
Nice. I like that. So, so look at that. too That was a good one.
00:51:01.52
Mike
All right.
00:51:03.21
Bill
All right. Let me make a note. That was a good one. Okay. Right. Um, all right. So God grant me was talking about laughter. When do you think you started laughing again after getting sober, maybe better yet? Um, when do you think you really started to enjoy yourself after, like after we got sober?
00:51:26.56
Mike
me Still waiting no You know that was one of the
00:51:33.09
Bill
yeah all right good night everybody yeah
00:51:41.31
Mike
Nice things about the structure of the Keating Center um or the, you know, the open times and whatever us just, you know, sitting under the tent, um, shooting shit with people. I mean, you know, the fellowship and being forced to be around other people. Cause God knows, you know, the last hell five years, probably longer than that, that I was out there drinking and using, um,
00:52:00.92
Bill
All right, good night, everybody.
00:52:04.50
Mike
You know, I wasn't really around people. I isolated, um, and being forced to be with people, um, you know, forced me to, to interact with those people and, and yeah, with, with it, Jesus Christ, we are not a glum lot.
00:52:08.11
Bill
right
00:52:19.90
Mike
Um, and I read that somewhere.
00:52:22.04
Bill
Right.
00:52:22.18
Mike
And, uh, you know, and I mean, and we, we have a very, um, sometimes dark, sometimes morbid sense of humor about the situations that we've put ourselves in, which is good. Um, we kind of have to, and, um, yeah, you know, I mean, pretty early on, I mean, we you better start fucking laughing at yourself, man.
00:52:36.02
Bill
right
00:52:43.82
Mike
Cause it's not going to be fun if you can't do that.
00:52:48.27
Bill
Right.
00:52:48.32
Mike
Um, Yeah. So, I mean, pretty early I started, you know, loosening up and reacclamating myself to to being a part of the human race again. and um Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't too long until I was laughing generally laughing and um as far as having a good time I was kind of kidding, but um, I don't know man. I I still Shit 14 plus years into this thing. I'm still trying to figure out how to Actually have a good time because I was chemically having a good time my entire fucking life um
00:53:26.87
Mike
You know, I'm still working on that. I'm content. I'm peaceful. I'm, you know, I'm not all bound up inside anymore, but I don't know. I don't i don't know if I'm ever gonna like have a really good fucking time anymore. And that's okay, man. Again, back to that middle, back to that average. I kind of maybe don't want to have that good of a time anymore. I kind of burned those points up a long time ago.
00:53:52.83
Bill
right
00:53:53.79
Mike
Yeah, you know, I'm um i'm happy.
00:53:54.15
Bill
right
00:53:56.42
Mike
i'm not I'm not sad. I'm not angry. I'm not dead. It's fucking enough, man. Good time. I don't know what the fuck is it? Throwing candy at kids' heads was pretty fun.
00:54:08.08
Bill
Well, and that's that's kind of my point, you know, with with that too, is that, um you know, the or the point I was going to make and i'm I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, you think about what what has changed or the things that have changed, you know, over the years from. Right. and And first of all, I agree with you with the key to etc. I hadn't even thought about that right away um You know figure the the we talked about the memorial day weekend, you know I mean that was that was a fucking blast and you have the dark humor and and all those sort of things and Like you said sitting under the tent and shooting the shit with these with these guys, you know Once we got to know them so easily within the first, you know 30 days, you know, I would say um And then you know trying to in having fun and enjoying enjoying ourselves in that
00:54:27.94
Mike
Hmm. Right.
00:54:40.56
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:54:52.92
Bill
That's changed. I know it's changed for me over the years, what I but i like to do, what I'm comfortable doing. We talked about concerts. you know i mean ten Ten years ago, I was not comfortable going to a concert.
00:55:00.45
Mike
Right.
00:55:04.17
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:05.41
Bill
i I had no desire to. you know i didn't want to um I would literally go into, if I went into, again, like an Applebee's or a Chili's or something like that,
00:55:12.53
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:15.75
Bill
And the the server was going to take me into the, you know, Derek and I into the bar area, even at the seats. I'm like, can we sit out in the dining room area? You know, I didn't want, to I wasn't comfortable doing that.
00:55:23.16
Mike
Right.
00:55:25.29
Bill
And that was, you know, five, six years.
00:55:25.67
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:27.81
Bill
The other thing too, is I wouldn't, I wouldn't go into a bar and have a fucking hamburger. We did that when we went down to Dr. Bob's.
00:55:35.00
Mike
Right.
00:55:35.50
Bill
I'd done that with, well, my, my kids went for Father's Day. We went to, you know, that restaurant, it was a bar, it was a bar restaurant.
00:55:38.95
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:55:41.94
Bill
I mean, but
00:55:42.85
Mike
Yeah.
00:55:43.28
Bill
You know in the name was something bar in grill where I would I would usually.
00:55:46.07
Mike
Right.
00:55:48.37
Bill
Literally I would in my head if it if it said like i don't know Applebee's Applebee's neighborhood grill and bar you know my oh that's okay because it's restaurant first that has a bar you know.
00:55:51.35
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:57.45
Mike
Uh huh.
00:55:59.42
Bill
But literally, it it made me uncomfortable, you know um you know? But that doesn't bother me anymore. Going places by myself, I didn't just go off and do shit on my own.
00:56:09.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:56:09.46
Bill
you know I don't know, I just say, either I wasn't comfortable, I'm like, I don't want to sit there and fucking just go someplace by myself, and now I love it.
00:56:16.69
Mike
Right.
00:56:17.73
Bill
yeah
00:56:18.17
Mike
Well, yeah, right.
00:56:18.44
Bill
You know, and well, and it to you too, you know, whether, whether it's sitting down and and watching a baseball game or going and throwing candy at kids.
00:56:23.79
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:25.78
Bill
I mean, you have, you have different things that, you know, that you do as opposed to what you did, you know, 10 years ago, even, you know, three, three, four or five years ago.
00:56:32.01
Mike
Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
00:56:35.45
Bill
You know, so it's gotta kind of change. It changes over the years, right?
00:56:38.74
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I um mean, getting older either helps or doesn't help. I'm not sure and don't care.
00:56:43.22
Bill
yeah
00:56:44.73
Mike
Um, but yeah, yeah, again, I mean, I, yeah, yeah right.
00:56:44.99
Bill
Right.
00:56:49.96
Mike
Um, going to do the, I mean, I live a mile away from Edgewater park, right on Lake Erie here, the main beach in Cleveland. Um, that's where the fireworks are at. I mean, I don't want to go down there. I, that just does not appeal to me at all. All the crazy, you know, fuck all that.
00:57:05.42
Bill
All
00:57:07.55
Mike
No, thanks. Um, you know, but ah yeah, but marching in the parade was, was nice. Getting up early on my day off and going and did. Yeah, that was, that was fine. Um, well, I don't know, man, you know, I, yeah, I, I was fit, but I was very happy to get home. Chris and I went out and had breakfast afterwards and then she dropped me off. She went home to do her thing. I came and sat on my couch and watched fucking guardians kick the white Sox ass. It was, uh, it was nice.
00:57:33.49
Bill
a
00:57:34.38
Mike
Yeah. You know, it's enough. It's enough man. Um, yeah go in places by myself. I mean i'm going hell. Um A couple weeks on the 24th i'm going to the indianscape the indians. I still do that Um, the dns the guardians whatever the fuck they are the tigers are in town i'm going by myself. I got myself a good ticket Um, probably spent more than I should have but who gives a fuck and you know i'm going and i'm sitting there and i'm gonna watch the baseball game and fucking and thoroughly enjoy myself, um
00:57:57.76
Bill
Right.
00:58:04.32
Mike
Yeah, you know, that's bad. I mean, I was talking to my granddaughter about that the other day. I was like, yeah, I'm going to the game. She's like going by yourself. I said, yeah, damn right. I am. Um, um ah you know, I want to watch the game. I don't want to sit there and socialize. I don't want it. That's what I want to do. I love baseball. Um, and no distractions. Watch the game, get a hot dog and get a bag of peanuts and, you know, and and watch the game and enjoy it and leave there and remember the game and go home and get up and go to work the next day.
00:58:34.05
Bill
Right. Well, you had ah yeah you did that last year and you've done that quite a few times, you know, go into a game and you know what um I whether it's a baseball game or anything like that, I i don't know.
00:58:36.73
Mike
Yeah is Right Mm
00:58:45.88
Bill
I mean, I wouldn't I don't think that these days I would have a problem doing that because I remember years ago when um
00:58:50.12
Mike
-hmm
00:58:53.35
Bill
Have no idea who who it was that I was talking to and this was a long long time ago long before I ever got sober um, but Somebody had said that he they never they didn't feel comfortable Going into a restaurant and eating by themselves And i'm like i'm like I fucking do that all the time because that that I was traveling for work I was doing this I would be out doing stuff for work and i'd stop someplace for lunch i'm like i'm like I do it all the time but what I used to do was When I ate lunch, I would I'd buy it a paper a newspaper because you know, I didn't have a cell phone back then
00:58:54.34
Mike
Mm-hmm
00:59:06.83
Mike
Hmm. Right. Right.
00:59:19.25
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:59:23.49
Bill
And you know I'd sit there and um you know obviously read a newspaper while I was eating lunch. Now, when I was when i was traveling while I was still drinking, and there used to be this this bar where you could play trivia and they had this had this great salad and a good steak and it was all I could expense a certain portion every day.
00:59:27.95
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:59:40.81
Bill
So it was a free fucking dinner, a steak dinner.
00:59:40.91
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:59:45.09
Bill
But I'd sit in the bar area and then in front of the big TV and play trivia and fucking drink beer. But I mean, I didn't give a fuck.
00:59:52.06
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:59:56.49
Bill
And these days, how do I go in someplace like that by myself? But again, all of that has to do with, I don't know, probably just coming in and getting just comfortable in our own skin in general.
01:00:07.75
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, I talked about it out here, you know, I mean, I went and saw that that Alice Cooper concert um by myself.
01:00:15.95
Bill
Right.
01:00:17.76
Mike
um I was like three months sober at that point, maybe four. um That was rough. That was a little rough, man. Go in there and, you know, because I went by myself and. um You know yeah going to a concert you know what's the music started once the band started and i was watching the show and thankfully alice is a show um you know i loved it i had a great fucking time watching the band watching him perform um yeah but i mean it was it was a little early i probably shouldn't have done that but hey i got through it so fuck it
01:00:48.82
Bill
okay yeah Right. Yeah, and speaking of that, so um I told you that I bought Dennis Dunaway's book.
01:00:59.77
Mike
Oh yeah.
01:01:00.73
Bill
So started I started listening to that on the way down here. So I'm i'm guessing you read the book, right?
01:01:05.39
Mike
Yes.
01:01:06.18
Bill
Okay, so um I think, again, maybe it's 13 hours, maybe it's 14, whatever the deal is.
01:01:12.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:01:13.05
Bill
I think I'm probably four hours into it, because again, nine hour drive, I was listening to the podcast, whatever.
01:01:16.33
Mike
Okay. Bye.
01:01:19.20
Bill
And you know what, nothing um that I really just, Like picked apart and said who I'd want to talk about this or I want to talk about that type of thing I'm just really fucking enjoying listening to him
01:01:25.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:01:30.22
Bill
You know?
01:01:30.22
Mike
Yeah.
01:01:31.02
Bill
And I'm probably, if I had to guess, I'm probably four hours into it.
01:01:33.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:01:34.82
Bill
They're they're to the point right now where they become, you know, now the Alice Cooper group and in this and that.
01:01:38.74
Mike
Right.
01:01:39.54
Bill
And, you know, from all the other things, what cracked me up though is that the the different names, they're like, yep, but now we found out. Now the band has the name. They have a record.
01:01:47.19
Mike
Right.
01:01:47.80
Bill
So that we were going to pick this fucking name that nobody's going to come up with. What was it? The Nas or something like that?
01:01:52.87
Mike
The NAS, yeah.
01:01:53.86
Bill
NAS NAS. And then yeah, whatever it was, it was like, john Richards in the NAS and he's like, fuck, we had think of another name.
01:02:01.59
Mike
No, it was, yeah, Todd runs her naturally, but yeah.
01:02:01.70
Bill
It just
01:02:04.81
Bill
ah was it? I was just making up a name.
01:02:06.48
Mike
Yeah.
01:02:07.28
Bill
I couldn't remember what what it was, but no literally, i've just i was I'm just kind of getting engulfed in in his story. you know um the the only The only funny thing, because you didn't listen to the audiobook, I'm guessing, right?
01:02:14.00
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:02:18.17
Mike
Now, now.
01:02:18.86
Bill
Okay. So he's he's one that, um speaking of comfortable, and that's kind of what made me think about it, but also when you said Alice Cooper thing,
01:02:24.27
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:02:26.68
Bill
You can tell that he's not um he's not comfortable reading off a piece of paper in that in that thing because every every once in a while he'll yes that one day we did a he does that that which again it's not distracted to begin with the first couple of probably first half hour i'm like who this might be distracted but it's once I got you know kind of engulfed in the story I notice that every once in a while but not a big deal
01:02:31.86
Mike
Right. Uh huh.
01:02:49.15
Mike
This is...
01:02:51.38
Bill
Um, doesn't take away from anything that he's talking about, but, um, man, it was, it's just been, it's been enjoyable, you know? And again, nothing to pick out.
01:02:58.77
Mike
is...
01:03:00.40
Bill
You know, you read the book, you know, it's, it, it talks about their progression and their growth and how they came together and, um, far different than Rob Halford's, you know, um, audio book.
01:03:03.95
Mike
sure Sure.
01:03:07.90
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:03:09.51
Bill
Um, but I don't mean that in a bad way, you know, it's just in a different, different level.
01:03:11.19
Mike
Right.
01:03:13.51
Bill
Um, but yeah, I'm just, I'm having a lot of fun, having a lot of fun listening to it. So yeah.
01:03:17.36
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. And Dennis is a great guy, too. So, you know, smart dude and whatever, pet around and done a lot of shit. So, yeah, it's cool stuff.
01:03:26.12
Bill
Right.
01:03:26.34
Mike
You know, we are, you know, I will clearly I recognize him, but he actually recognizes me.
01:03:30.72
Bill
Oh, really?
01:03:31.70
Mike
So that's that's always fun. Yeah, I mean, we've met on several occasions. I've gone to see him. He's got his band now is Blue Coop, which is not yeah yeah, it's it's him in the Bouchard Brothers Blue Oyster Cult.
01:03:42.03
Bill
Oh, yeah. Okay.
01:03:47.18
Bill
Okay.
01:03:47.24
Mike
And ah so, yeah, every time they come to Cleveland, I go see him and they've done stuff at the Rock Hall since, you know, he's he's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame now.
01:03:56.58
Bill
Right.
01:03:56.60
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, so like, you know, yeah, and I booked signings and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. i've I've met the guy shit probably a dozen times now. And, and, you know, he recognizes me now, which is fun.
01:04:08.55
Bill
Yeah. I mean, that's, no, that's, that's cool because you're right. I mean, he seems like just a genuinely good guy, you know, but, oh,
01:04:14.68
Mike
Yeah, right. Been married forever to the drummer sister.
01:04:19.55
Bill
Yep. Oh, that, uh, that was going to say there was two things, um, a money thing. I want to tell you about the minute, but the whole thing with the, with the, yeah, with the drummer sister, his, his account is like, and I ran across the blonde again.
01:04:27.11
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:04:31.28
Bill
And then when he tells a story and he's like, that he walks away, whatever it was, it's like the one time she's talking, whatever.
01:04:36.27
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:37.49
Bill
And he's like, he's like, man, it's hot out here. Isn't it? And then that he's like, yeah, then she just walked away and I'm like, ah I'm fucking laughing my ass off.
01:04:44.00
Mike
yeah Yep.
01:04:47.11
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:47.35
Bill
But what he was still.
01:04:48.47
Mike
They've been married for like 50 years now, so yeah.
01:04:51.68
Bill
Well, and I haven't even gotten to the point yet where, um, where they got, where they got married.
01:04:53.49
Mike
Right. Yeah.
01:04:55.62
Bill
But so the, the other thing he was, he was still living at home and, um, he was sitting at at the table talking to his dad or whatever it is.
01:04:55.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:05:04.62
Bill
His dad starts, you know, kind of, he's counseling him a little bit on, on his choices as, you know, maybe what his life choices and whatever.
01:05:08.83
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:05:10.92
Bill
And he goes, he goes, he's like, thankfully I just picked up or just got paid a bunch of money or whatever it was.
01:05:11.31
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:05:16.78
Bill
So he said he pulled the cash out. and spread it out along the table. And he said, that's the last time my dad's ever questioned my choice or whatever it was. And I was like, that's fucking perfect.
01:05:27.75
Mike
Yep.
01:05:27.97
Bill
And he didn't say like, fuck you, dad. Look at what I'm making.
01:05:30.42
Mike
and
01:05:30.74
Bill
He just took the money and I can picture just spreading the money out on the table.
01:05:35.21
Mike
you know
01:05:35.44
Bill
ah Easiest way to you know shut somebody up till they think, no, I'm OK. I'm good.
01:05:39.87
Mike
I'm doing all right.
01:05:41.08
Bill
yeah i'm doing okay here but um no i just say seriously it's uh i i'm enjoying it so who knows maybe maybe there will be something that'll pop out that i'll you know kind of write down or remember but uh no i'm just i wanted to tell you that that uh yeah i'm just enjoying the shit out of it so thank you Thank you for the recommendation.
01:05:41.29
Mike
a
01:05:56.07
Mike
Cool. Yeah.
01:05:58.77
Bill
So here's another one, and I'm looking back on one of my, this is off of one of the other pages, but kind of another ah higher power thing, but in a different way.
01:05:58.87
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:06:06.27
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:06:07.31
Bill
um This was from Keep It Simple. Today I'll make a list of times um my higher power has helped me out of trouble.
01:06:16.44
Mike
Huh.
01:06:16.55
Bill
And i had I put in parentheses, do you think it's a higher power that keeps you out of trouble? Now, ah along the same lines, what you were talking about before, but kind of a little bit different. So so yeah, what do you think of that, Mike?
01:06:29.40
Mike
I will tell you, Bill.
01:06:31.49
Bill
ever but
01:06:33.37
Mike
all Yes, my the the powers greater in myself in my life have definitely kept me out of trouble. um you know i mean I'm not shy about it. One of the powers, um I don't talk about all of them, but one of them is is A.A. Absolutely is a power greater in myself than I'm a part of. And um yeah, you bet your assets kept me out of trouble. oh all the time um yes yes the higher power a power greater than me has kept me out of trouble many times of you know just teaching me how to how to act like a human being how to not let my emotions run my life
01:07:12.43
Mike
to remind me that there are principles involved in this thing that I have to use as guides. um Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, on that, yes, my higher powers kept me out of trouble. How about that? This atheist just fucking and said that deal with that.
01:07:30.37
Bill
Yeah, and you know quite honestly that the reason I said yes, so what do you think about that Mike?
01:07:34.32
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:07:35.51
Bill
I thought you were gonna be like I don't you know I that's that's kind of what what I thought but no you see every once in a while still 14 years later You know 14 plus years later you still surprised me But then again that I that should not surprise me because you've talked about that before um you know and
01:07:41.46
Mike
Hehehe. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.
01:07:52.27
Bill
And I know that like for me, um I did not have any, I did not have any higher power. um i Let me put it this way. I did not acknowledge any power greater than myself before I got sober.
01:08:01.28
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
01:08:03.95
Bill
You know, so the the way that I looked at this was obviously after I got sober, um you know, and same deal, you know, I mean, yeah, whether it's AA, whether it's, a a whether it's um you know, I don't believe in divine intervention or anything like that.
01:08:06.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:08:15.64
Mike
Hmm.
01:08:16.45
Bill
You know, people being um people are put into our past. I do believe that, that somehow these people come into our into our past at the right time, but that goes back to what we were talking about before.
01:08:20.99
Mike
yeah
01:08:26.71
Bill
um I have to be open to meeting that person or putting myself in that in their path also, you know, or or hearing the message or that sort of thing.
01:08:27.10
Mike
Yup. Yup.
01:08:34.98
Bill
So, you know, some dudes at a meeting And you know, he he says something or maybe this this person, you know could be you know Somebody either influential or could add to my life But the same deal like you said, you know, I'm playing on my phone or I'm not paying attention or whatever I may never get an opportunity to meet that person, you know um I mean shit we could go back to to you and I I mean there was no fucking reason in the world I mean, yeah, we were we were put together but we were also we were also put together with
01:08:45.23
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:09:01.46
Bill
you know, at least 25 of the other guys in that place, we didn't have to do stuff with everyone, you know, but, you know, so why us, you know, in it just, we, again, we, we had to have been open to something, right?
01:09:06.58
Mike
Right.
01:09:14.48
Bill
I mean, I don't know.
01:09:15.50
Mike
Absolutely Right No,
01:09:15.58
Bill
I don't know. Again, I don't think it's a I don't think it's a divine intervention, because we joked about that, you know, who the universe kept putting us together.
01:09:25.33
Mike
no we just made we didn't fucking leave Which we could have that gate was never locked man those doors were never locked we could have left at any time we chose to stay there and You know by choosing that we you know, you got put together.
01:09:29.14
Bill
Right. Right?
01:09:40.95
Mike
Yes. We were both there at the same time. There you go.
01:09:43.81
Bill
Right.
01:09:44.56
Mike
I
01:09:45.04
Bill
Well, and even think back to the, you know, the three quarter dorm and the people that were in the three quarter dorm with us while we were at the Keating Center, you know, um I mean, two of those people are dead because there was the, I mean, Dominic was one and then the other dude that, you know, drove his truck off the bridge or jumped off the bridge or whatever, because he was in in and out of that three quarter dorm.
01:09:57.49
Mike
Yeah.
01:10:04.20
Mike
Right.
01:10:07.05
Bill
um I mean, Pete turned out to be a normie, you know, if that is it is, you know, um Tom is what it is.
01:10:09.75
Mike
Yeah.
01:10:12.11
Bill
Also, if Tom went on his way, um who else was in there with us?
01:10:12.89
Mike
Right.
01:10:15.38
Bill
Is that is that the six that were in there? I don't remember now, but um you know.
01:10:17.72
Mike
mut Was Michael in there with us or not?
01:10:22.37
Bill
No, he was still.
01:10:23.28
Mike
And he was, yeah, he was in the other, he just went to the house when we went.
01:10:27.22
Bill
Right, right.
01:10:27.85
Mike
Yeah, but yeah, right. You know, and Uncle Frankie's still around and, you know, yeah, there's, you know, definitely.
01:10:32.39
Bill
Right.
01:10:35.31
Mike
Yeah. ah Right. I don't know.
01:10:39.17
Bill
Right.
01:10:39.78
Mike
It sets none of it's up up to me. I know that other than, you know, staying and and and doing what I'm supposed to do. And as long as I do that, then the rest of it's going to work itself out.
01:10:51.64
Bill
Right. Yeah, we we just we we stuck around long enough and you know as as people started to get weeded out we were Kind of a and you know again, I was the last one standing in the three-quarter room and you're like, yeah guess you'll do That was the that was like that that was that crossroad right there, you know that uh, yeah, it's just like well you're the only fucking one left I guess we're rooming together if we if we if we
01:11:01.59
Mike
Yep. Yep,
01:11:12.06
Mike
yep exactly.
01:11:13.71
Bill
If we're going to go over to the three quarter house, I guess we have to live in the same room together.
01:11:17.61
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:11:19.10
Bill
But um no, I was just ah I don't know.
01:11:20.55
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:11:21.22
Bill
Again, that was a good answer because I wasn't I wasn't sure how you might answer that one about the about the whole higher power thing. But I agree. I mean, the same deal. It goes back to the other the other point of being open, obviously, to, you know, to all that that stuff.
01:11:33.01
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:11:35.30
Bill
So.
01:11:36.33
Mike
Yeah. The choices that we make, man, choices and consequences. And you know, thankfully sometimes those consequences are good.
01:11:43.67
Bill
yeah right Exactly. um ah Okay, so again, don't know when or why I wrote this down, but responding versus reacting.
01:11:54.69
Mike
Hmm.
01:11:55.52
Bill
How are you now versus how you were in early sobriety?
01:11:59.15
Mike
Hmm.
01:11:59.52
Bill
when somebody hits you with something that would normally cause a reaction so whatever pick a topic pick a thing but um once again how are you now versus how you were in early sobriety when somebody hits you with something that you would normally or would normally cause a reaction.
01:12:16.74
Mike
Right. Um, well, yeah, I'm, I'm much better at it because I practiced. I practiced that, uh, that responding rather than reacting. Um, I don't react very much anymore, which is good. Um, I don't want to, um, doesn't work out well when I do. Um, Yeah, man. it's Yes, I have to react not or respond, not react, um which takes thought, takes, again, choices, man.
01:12:42.26
Bill
Right.
01:12:46.66
Mike
oh Taking that minute, not letting my emotions and my feelings you know rule things. Yes. Going, OK, here's the situation. um you know that and you know Yeah, right. they They catch you by surprise. You're not prepared for them, which is fine. um I can't sit here and try to plan for anything that's going to happen in my life. I don't know. Shit's going to happen. Other than having that attitude of shit's going to happen.
01:13:19.04
Mike
um and don't don't react to it, respond to it. um Take that beat and and think about it and maybe take several beats and maybe make a phone call, maybe talk to somebody else before you respond. um That's important. you know You don't have to, you don't, again, that's react, you don't have to react, you have to respond.
01:13:35.08
Bill
right
01:13:41.15
Mike
um And sometimes that response is gonna take a little while because you've gotta, work it out and hopefully not by yourself with some other people. And yeah, all yes, don't fucking react, man. there's that It doesn't work. It doesn't work.
01:14:00.57
Bill
Right.
01:14:01.76
Mike
I mean, occasionally, I suppose it will. But Not often and not very well. So yes, respond. That's, that's a huge difference. And again, it comes with the practice and and working those muscles and yes today. Um, yeah, I, I respond and, uh, don't expect an instant response because that's reacting.
01:14:24.20
Bill
Right. Well, and, you know, I said it before, and you know, kind of jokingly, but um i I'm pretty thankful at at certain points, you know, for a text message or an email.
01:14:37.14
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
01:14:38.04
Bill
um You know, nobody leaves voicemails anymore. I'm not saying they don't, but I mean, for
01:14:40.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:14:42.28
Bill
for the most part, you know, somebody's going to text or, you know, worst case, email you, um you know, but at least you have a chance to to look at it and be like, fuck, you know, um and be like, hi what are we always talking about?
01:14:46.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
01:14:54.85
Bill
I don't want to fucking do that. I don't want to go there. I want to do that. I want to, I don't want anything, you know, um you know, but that gives us that technology, a good, and actually finally, a good thing with technology, you know, allows us that opportunity to pause
01:14:58.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:15:06.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:15:09.51
Bill
you know sometimes though when because it's a you know it could be a facial expression or whatever if somebody if somebody hits you with something in person but i always try to you know take literally take a breath or you know try not to to have because a facial expression is a reaction you know and you know sometimes i don't i don't mean to you know yeah yeah you it's you
01:15:14.29
Mike
Hmm. Uh-huh.
01:15:24.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:15:29.93
Mike
Well, yeah, great. yeah It's involuntary most of the time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. click Yeah. No. Oh,
01:15:38.74
Bill
yeah ha But you know, it's ah yeah, but I think that that comes with um in the the what I thought about with the early sobriety thing is the fact that we literally we didn't know how to not react, I think is the best maybe the best way to put it.
01:15:53.60
Mike
oh yeah. Absolutely.
01:15:55.83
Bill
Um, I, I used to, you know, shoot first and ask questions later, you know, and, and then, you know, you got to clean up again. We were talking about making a bench. You got to clean up the mess and all this sort of things, which again, I never did.
01:16:09.08
Mike
hello
01:16:09.20
Bill
I never tried to clean shit up el before I got sober. You're like, well, well, fuck, you know, fuck you then.
01:16:12.47
Mike
right Right Yeah, yeah, you don't like my reaction that's your fucking problem
01:16:14.85
Bill
If you don't, if you don't like my answer. Um,
01:16:20.48
Bill
yeah Right. Right. But, um but yeah, I mean, I think that I think for the most part that, you know, it's a, it is, it's a, thankfully it's a, well, it is a learned behavior. And thankfully we've we've, we were taught how to learn that, you know, cause that's the other thing too, that, I mean, seriously, I know that sounds funny, but you know, people had to teach us how to learn again too.
01:16:34.26
Mike
Right.
01:16:36.75
Mike
Yes. No. Yes. he yeah Well, because we knew everything.
01:16:42.05
Bill
yeah yeah fair here
01:16:47.06
Bill
Right.
01:16:47.74
Mike
Right. Why the fuck do I have to learn anything?
01:16:48.64
Bill
Yeah.
01:16:49.64
Mike
I know it all. is yeah That's why I'm at the Keating Center.
01:16:51.08
Bill
Right.
01:16:54.39
Bill
yeah Right. I've got my, I've got my life together. That's why I'm sitting here with 40 other fucking guys and, you know, have no place to go and no, no place to go and nobody that wants to be there anyhow.
01:17:00.41
Mike
Right. Eating four day old chicken.
01:17:07.23
Bill
So. But, um, but yeah, I just thought that was, that was interesting. Cause I, that was me. I was always a ah reactionary person, but I like the way you said that, you know, under that circumstances, don't don't, I wouldn't say don't ever react.
01:17:15.06
Mike
here
01:17:20.20
Bill
Cause if somebody gives you good news, then you're like, Hey, you know, then have we can, we can react happily.
01:17:20.43
Mike
No. Yeah. Right.
01:17:25.02
Bill
Right.
01:17:25.67
Mike
Sure.
01:17:27.93
Bill
Cause then, I mean, no reaction. If somebody gives you good news, they're like, what the fuck, man, that was rude.
01:17:34.98
Mike
Yeah.
01:17:35.05
Bill
yeah
01:17:35.80
Mike
Yeah. But I, you know, and i I think actually it kind of bleeds into it. You know, we, we respond in a, in a positive way. We don't really react because it's not, I don't know. It's not part of my life anymore. Yeah. I respond in a, in a positive way because you've given me good news.
01:17:48.08
Bill
Right.
01:17:51.71
Mike
So thank you. And and I'm grateful for it. and and And again, that's my response too. That's not. You know, ah my old reaction was, yeah, well, of course, motherfucker, you better be doing something nice for me. Don't you know who I think I am?
01:18:06.03
Bill
Hey, exactly. Don't you know who I think I am? Still one of my favorite fucking lines that we've been using that for long long before we started doing this.
01:18:12.01
Mike
Yep.
01:18:15.26
Mike
yep
01:18:15.57
Bill
But um all right, so I think I have yeah just one more. So um I don't even remember where I got this from, but it says, am I a person who has more trouble letting go or more trouble hanging on? um So let me read that. yeah This is what this might be a thinking one, right? So um am I a person who has more trouble letting go or more trouble hanging on?
01:18:35.57
Mike
ah
01:18:41.45
Bill
Back to you, Mike. Over to you, Mike.
01:18:43.52
Mike
Why thanks bill and my answer to that is yes um Yeah, you know, of course I have trouble hanging on and I have trouble letting go um, I
01:18:48.35
Bill
yeah yeah
01:18:58.41
Bill
Well,
01:18:58.66
Mike
ah Yeah, right i that's kind of it, you know, um and it's Still man still working on this trying to find that balance of the things I need to hang on to I mean that's what inventories are for and and figuring out the good stuff that you had to hang on to and the bad stuff you got to let go of and um, Yeah, you know, uh, of course I still want to hang on to some of the bad stuff and I still want to let go of some of the good stuff. Um, yeah. Yeah. Work in progress, man.
01:19:28.71
Mike
Um, that's one I'll probably never get perfectly. Um, but I'm going to keep working on it. Um, yeah, it's it. The easy answer is yes. I have trouble with both, you know,
01:19:42.44
Bill
yeah Right. No, when i and I must have gotten that because it you know the way I copied it was, am I a person? So it had to have been from a reading, I would assume.
01:19:52.11
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:19:53.50
Bill
But I didn't i didn't make a note of which it was from.
01:19:54.27
Mike
Right.
01:19:56.15
Bill
But you know i'm I'm thinking about this as you're talking. I'm like, OK, no, I'm better at this one. I'm like, wait a second, but no, this one.
01:20:00.91
Mike
Uh huh.
01:20:02.62
Bill
Because i first thing, I'm thinking about the the letting go part. I'm like, OK, somebody that's bad in my life or bed bad for my sobriety.
01:20:07.33
Mike
Right.
01:20:09.58
Bill
um I've had that happen.
01:20:09.81
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:20:10.54
Bill
Not that it's easy. but
01:20:12.09
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:20:12.74
Bill
um I know it's a decision I've made and I know I can do that. So I'm like, okay, that's that data I have trouble with and I'm like the hanging on but I'm like shit, I know there's some things in my life that maybe I need to change or maybe it's taking me time or maybe things I should do and I'm like fuck with it, but
01:20:16.74
Mike
Right.
01:20:25.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:20:31.03
Bill
ah Okay, you know what? I think the acceptable answer on that one is yes, because, um I mean, I i know, i okay, let's go go back to a relationship, you know.
01:20:35.60
Mike
Yes.
01:20:39.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:20:41.68
Bill
I had ah a couple, in one in particular, but I probably had a couple, um you know, of of relationships with the with members of the opposite sex.
01:20:44.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:20:50.15
Bill
You know that were um as I look back at it now, I don't know if toxic is the right word I've I've told stories, you know, i've i've told other people before i'm like it was completely unhealthy and completely toxic Which I don't know that it it was but um, probably not not good relationships, you know Um, but maybe one part of it was really fucking good.
01:20:56.30
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:21:01.13
Mike
Right.
01:21:05.83
Mike
Right.
01:21:09.41
Bill
So, you know Um, you know, so
01:21:09.74
Mike
Yeah. Right.
01:21:13.96
Bill
I, I kept hanging on to that, you know, and that was hard to let go. So it's both, you know, and so I'm like, Oh, fuck.
01:21:17.76
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:21:20.05
Bill
But then I had a relationship that I knew I'm like, I can't be around you because of this. I'm like, I get easy, but then I can't let go of that.
01:21:23.56
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:21:26.09
Bill
You know, I don't know. That's, it's a, it's an, um ah I don't know if it's impossible, but that would be, that's a ridiculously difficult question to answer.
01:21:35.01
Mike
It is.
01:21:36.12
Bill
You know?
01:21:36.09
Mike
Right. Other than saying yes.
01:21:38.40
Bill
Yeah, yeah, just okay. Just admitting literally admitting defeat and saying yep um I'm just I'm just an average guy over here doing average things and Right and and you know what since we literally brought that around full circle to the reading What do you think should we be fucking done?
01:21:43.90
Mike
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. but That's just it, man. Yes. i'm I'm good at both of them and I'm bad at both of them. Yes.
01:22:03.44
Bill
I think we should be Yeah, let's do that
01:22:03.76
Mike
You know what? I think we should. Yeah. We've been, uh, we've been doing this for a while. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. It's always got there. Be kind to each other. Be good to each other. Do something nice for somebody else this week. And don't tell anybody it did it. Now it's time. Oh boy. Is it time? It's time for you to fuck off. then keep fucking off keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here climb over that gate dream the a impossible dream and keep fucking off forever
01:22:41.90
Bill
And once again, boy, boy is it time for you to fuck off.
01:22:44.88
Mike
the first first years first
01:22:47.35
Bill
but Which yeah, it is, it is. It just, ah I don't know, I figured we'd end up, we ended on a brain teaser and it wrapped around nicely. And I don't know, I cleaned up a couple of things off my list, but maybe, who knows, maybe next week we'll do the same thing. But yeah, we still got, God only knows how long. We we were talking about have possibly having a repeat guest on, we're not gonna bring it up yet until we speak to the individual.
01:23:06.68
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:23:07.75
Bill
But, um you know, hopefully we can have a,
01:23:08.31
Mike
Right.
01:23:11.37
Bill
that particular guest i don't know i mean one way or the other if we have guests on i don't know your opinion but i mean sometimes it's it's cool if we get the right guest but it's been it's been a long time since we've reached out well gary we asked to come back on and um oh by the way he uh he sent an email about something that you noticed oh the i responded to his email that you responded to because i i didn't realize that he had you copied on there
01:23:18.20
Mike
Yeah.
01:23:24.21
Mike
yeah
01:23:29.32
Mike
Yeah.
01:23:34.47
Mike
yeah
01:23:34.80
Bill
I was I was so used to him, you know, just emailing emailing the sober, not mature email. So I just did reply and not reply all.
01:23:40.06
Mike
Right.
01:23:41.94
Bill
But I did respond to that.
01:23:42.85
Mike
Oh, cool.
01:23:43.38
Bill
But um I was just I'm just thinking that um it's just funny that he calls himself, you know, he calls himself the number one fan.
01:23:48.54
Mike
Yep.
01:23:50.31
Bill
yeah
01:23:50.67
Mike
a
01:23:51.68
Bill
Which which is true, you know, and so so I'm like and unless unless anyone out there wants to try to you know Knock that motherfucker off of his horse. He is our number one.
01:23:59.04
Mike
Right.
01:24:00.24
Bill
He's our number one fan So and you know if any of you ladies out there we could have a ah female number one fan and then Gary You know, we'll well take one of each.
01:24:00.49
Mike
He is. so yeah
01:24:06.60
Mike
Right.
01:24:09.18
Bill
We'll take them all yeah Yeah Yeah, exactly.
01:24:09.59
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah. We'll take you all get out there and fight over us.
01:24:15.64
Bill
All right enough so we are we are done so hey, I love you brother
01:24:19.74
Mike
I love you too.
01:24:21.08
Bill
All right, we'll talk soon.
01:24:22.32
Mike
We will see y'all later.
01:24:24.46
Bill
Bye.
01:24:25.46
Mike
Bye.
