SoberNotMature - Episode 125 (Pessimistic Trouser Snakes)

00:00:01.90
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature and um yeah you know what let's let's start right off with this episode begging a little bit or but let's call it let's call it soliciting because we haven't done this in a while in

00:00:17.04
Mike
Wow. I think begging was probably a little better, but all right, go ahead.

00:00:22.87
Bill
Okay, wait, we're I'm not talking about, well, I guess we are whoring ourselves out a little bit, so let me take that back.

00:00:26.29
Mike
and I didn't speak for yourself.

00:00:29.44
Bill
I don't mean it that way. And first of all, we're we're not gonna ask for money, because Mike, we don't we don't want anyone's money, do we?

00:00:34.82
Mike
Fuck no.

00:00:35.76
Bill
yeah fuck no keep your goddamn money but I tell you what we do want we want all of our loyal listeners if you like what we're doing out there tell somebody about it right because we haven't asked about that in a while and we got I don't know I was looking at something um oh well dr.

00:00:45.47
Mike
Right.

00:00:50.40
Mike
Mm

00:00:52.03
Bill
Sarah and I'll talk about that in a second but popped on Spotify and you know we've been asking people to likely reviews and stuff like that which

00:00:54.60
Mike
-hmm.

00:00:59.46
Mike
Right.

00:01:00.31
Bill
I never realized that on Spotify, you can leave a star rating, which, cool, leave a star rating.

00:01:05.73
Mike
right

00:01:06.40
Bill
That puts us up in the ranks. That's all good.

00:01:07.88
Mike
Mm

00:01:08.59
Bill
But I know Apple Podcast, you can leave a review. um And that's where 60% of our, probably 60 or 65% of our listener base is anyhow.

00:01:12.08
Mike
-hmm.

00:01:17.38
Bill
But the whole point is, is that if anyone has the opportunity, it's free ways to do it. We're not looking for money. We've made that very, very clear. We don't want your goddamn money. But what we do want is five star review if or a five star rating, because that what this does that keep keeps us up or puts us up in the ranks.

00:01:29.48
Mike
ye

00:01:35.07
Bill
And then if somebody is looking for a sober podcast, if you like it,

00:01:38.76
Mike
Yep.

00:01:38.88
Bill
Maybe somebody else does and they can find us a review also those go up on our website people look at our website they could see hopefully the Wonderful the wonderful things for doing or if nothing else the lies that you guys are telling about us. It's fine Nobody cares anyhow, but um, but yeah tell a friend I mean anyone that's been listening for a bit if you if you enjoy it I think Mike you said it best well get off your ass and do some nice for somebody else or something

00:01:52.63
Mike
That's right.

00:02:01.92
Mike
Right. Exactly. Well, I think I've heard somewhere, you know, give it away to keep it, that sort of thing. So yes, don't keep all this shit to yourself.

00:02:07.18
Bill
but

00:02:09.12
Mike
Share it with your friends.

00:02:11.10
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So, um but seriously, I mean, I know I said bags, solicit, whatever it is, but that's how we grow. We've, we've noticed, but it's summertime. It happens every year, the last, cause this is our third summer doing this, but um so every summer it drops a little bit.

00:02:22.25
Mike
the Right.

00:02:24.33
Bill
I get it. People are out doing their thing and it's, it's fine, but yeah, just get out, tell somebody and like, like Mike just said, you know, give it away. but speaking real quickly of dr sarah so we had dr sarah on for episode seventy two um she's she's coming back on it'll be the august twenty fourth release um so we talked to her and she's all she's all squared away and she's coming back she's gonna talk uh talk about her book some more because we didn't we get into the book a little bit but we talked about everything ah and so

00:02:31.44
Mike
right

00:02:37.16
Mike
Alright. Alright. Mm-hmm. Bright.

00:02:53.11
Bill
I think a chance for her to talk about that plus she's still got the YouTube thing. um The podcast part, they've now converted it with the help of the sober curator because Dr. Sarah is along with us.

00:03:02.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:02.97
Bill
She's a sober curator. um They converted that now into a podcast. so um her Her YouTube stuff, they're you know the 10-15 minute little snippets that they have, that's all their episodes were anyhow.

00:03:07.95
Mike
ah

00:03:14.06
Mike
Right.

00:03:14.28
Bill
but um you know leaving crazy town which is their youtube thing is now a podcast so if you guys wanna wanna listen to that you know check check them out there on spotify and apple and all the other ones as far as i know but

00:03:19.20
Mike
there

00:03:25.16
Mike
See how that works? See how easy that was? Bill just shared a podcast. Hey, are you kidding too?

00:03:31.66
Bill
Right. Yeah. and And you know what, there's, and I was thinking about that too, because obviously Dr. Sarah, anything we do with the Sober Curator, because we work with them, um Sober Friends Podcast, I talk about all the time, Sobriety Uncensored's the other one I talk about, and Sober Motivation Podcast, those three I listen to on a fairly regular basis.

00:03:49.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:50.03
Bill
I don't know or even care if they ever cross from Motus, but um I enjoy them and I listen to them. So you know what, you guys should check them out too. How's that?

00:03:58.03
Mike
Nice.

00:03:59.02
Bill
Yeah, so that that's it just I don't know if that's a little bit of ah light whoring I guess if if you want to put that way, right Yeah, so you can get you want to join in that now now you're part of the horridge or no Okay, but this is this is whoring for a good for a good reason, right

00:04:06.72
Mike
All right. um I mean, you know, um that's old behavior, man.

00:04:18.83
Mike
Yeah. Well, I thought it was a good reason back then too.

00:04:23.80
Bill
You know what? That's a good point. I guess it's ah it's all relative. ah Okay. So enough of that. So yeah, listen, talk about us, whatever, whatever you want to do.

00:04:31.55
Mike
Right.

00:04:32.06
Bill
So, all right.

00:04:32.45
Mike
Yes. Like share and review all that good stuff, please.

00:04:36.15
Bill
Yeah, exactly, please, thank you. Thank you, thank you. All right, so that's all my my little rambling stuff. I got some shit going, and obviously plenty of things to talk about, and just a quick wrap up of last weekend and also what I'm gonna be doing. I'm gonna be a Wisconsin resident for the next month, starting tomorrow, so I'll talk about that.

00:04:51.10
Mike
wow Wow.

00:04:52.53
Bill
So temporary, still Airbnb shit, but I'll talk about that briefly.

00:04:54.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:04:55.45
Bill
so But you know what, I think we do, what do we do normally at this time?

00:04:58.80
Mike
Yeah, I don't know, some reading thing or something.

00:05:00.85
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, good thoughts.

00:05:01.19
Mike
I don't know. yeah Right.

00:05:02.73
Bill
Rolling around, bla blah, blah, blah. yeah

00:05:06.45
Mike
Right. Enough of this whoring. All right.

00:05:10.59
Bill
Those were good thoughts rolling around someplace.

00:05:12.23
Mike
yeah They're rolling around all right All right us God grant me this is actually I like this one a lot um better just kind of popped up um I was kind of I didn't have anything Flip it around whatever kind of went to the back and look for a topic that didn't really anyway So here we are December 2nd Christmas time now here we go

00:05:12.43
Bill
Hello.

00:05:15.14
Bill
yeah

00:05:35.14
Mike
um I always keep a supply of stimulant handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy. W.C. Fields, one of my favorites. W.C. Fields, the famous comic who played the role of a drunk, joked that he kept his excuse for drinking handy at all times. Many of us have many of us have our own snake, our own favorite excuse for drinking or using that we carried around with us for years. We pulled it out as often as we wanted to act as acted as if the fear or pain were brand new and way too much to bear. And then we drink or drugged with quote unquote good reason.

00:06:21.69
Mike
Our program helps us empty the snakes, the reasons for drinking and drugging out of our pockets, briefcases, purses, and lunch boxes. Prayer for the day, higher power help me identify all the excuses and reason I use to drink or use drugs. Help me face them and let them go. Today's action. Today I will think about my quote unquote snakes, the old hurts and fears that I use to get drunk or high over.

00:06:52.65
Mike
I will list them and talk with my sponsor about how to empty them out of my pockets.

00:06:59.71
Bill
think about my snake okay hang on yeah no it just it was there was a lot of especially after us talking about horrors and stuff like that there was a lot of a lot of snake and stuff going on there but um so hopefully we have a couple of yeah of ah younger listeners around now but uh yeah wc fields look him up he's uh he's he was an interesting and funny fellow that's for damn sure but um but yeah he was uh i mean he was an admitted alcoholic right i mean if i

00:07:02.66
Mike
I knew that was going to happen.

00:07:12.58
Mike
That's right.

00:07:22.43
Mike
Mm-hmm I mean, I don't know that he ever like Admitted it um right.

00:07:29.22
Bill
Absolutely not, not edited.

00:07:32.71
Mike
I mean he was certainly a drunk. um Yes. He played one that was part of his character, but it was also a part of his life um Yeah, you know, I mean he drank a lot ah hey um And um I'm pretty sure

00:07:38.59
Bill
Right.

00:07:46.66
Mike
Um, I saw a movie about him a long time ago. Um, and I believe he died somewhat sober only because he was in a hospital, hospitals, institutions and death.

00:07:59.16
Bill
Right.

00:07:59.22
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, so he didn't have access to it. Um, and it was pretty nasty. Um, yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so yeah, WC fields. So the topic snakes in our pants.

00:08:12.00
Bill
Yes, back back to snakes in our pants. But um no, I mean, the the reading itself, and and that's one that, i as soon as you started reading it, I remembered i remembered it.

00:08:21.76
Mike
Mhmm.

00:08:23.00
Bill
And you know and i that's one that you know kind of sticks, because once again, i mean it's it's one of those things and one of those readings that is a visual and i mean that in a serious note not about you know my steak in my pants but but i mean you know seriously it's talking about you know pulling these things out and hiding our fears and hurts and all those sort of things but the couple of things that i that i wrote down was obviously kept excuse for drinking that one i want to come back to but um fear or pain too much to bear i think that we can all identify with um but i

00:08:31.60
Mike
Mhmm. Mhmm. Right. Right. Mhmm. Mhmm.

00:08:51.51
Mike
Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, buddy, in the reading, it talks about, you know, the fakes, the the fakes, the the fears and the pain that we pulled out, that we used, that we hung onto, you know, that we used for an excuse. We didn't want to let those pains and fears go because it made it quite handy for us to get loaded.

00:09:12.31
Bill
Right. So and that's what i was goingnna that's what I was going to say, because the second part was identify excuses for that was kind of wrapped into that.

00:09:18.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:09:18.71
Bill
So um do you think, in and I know that we've we've talked about that, and I don't know that I've ever really thought about, um you know, me bringing out fears and pains and then identifying or traffic actually using those as excuses to drink, but do you remember like specific times or maybe when you got to that point when when that was the case would you looking back now you know that. You know what you're doing with fear based in in the pain you're bringing out and that's why you drank can you remember things like that or.

00:09:45.45
Mike
Um, now um, again, uh, kind of the gist of the reading is, is, you know, um, using these things as an excuse, you know, quote unquote, good reason for me to get loaded.

00:09:54.69
Bill
Right.

00:09:58.21
Mike
Um, You know, I look back on them now and of course they're ridiculous because they were, that's all they were, were excuses. Um, you know, I mean, I, I physical pain. Um, you know, I still have it. Um, I've got things I don't, you know, I'm not going to be the old man sitting here talking about my aches and pains, but, um, yeah, and pains.

00:10:18.49
Bill
and

00:10:21.06
Mike
Uh, I've had them pretty much my whole life and I absolutely use those and excuse, Oh, my back's fucking hurt. And I gotta, I gotta to get a drink, man. You know, i this pain is awful. um Um, I fucking hurt way worse than I did 20 years ago and I don't medicate myself. So, um, apparently I could bear it. They were just excuses like they all are, you know, they're, they're all fucking just excuses to be selfish and self-centered and, um, not, and, you know, yes, of course, uh, people have,

00:10:52.19
Mike
real traumas and stuff which we've talked about and we understand and we have talked about ad nauseum that we really don't.

00:10:56.89
Bill
Right.

00:11:00.66
Mike
um You know, I mean, shit's happened in our lives, of course, bad things, traumatic things have happened in our lives, um but nothing, you know, comparatively to some other people. um And again, it's all just excuses. Um, thankfully the program has taught us that, you know, the fears and the pains and whatever those excuses, first of all, we build them up to be bigger than they really are. Um, and you know, and again, that's kind of the coping magic mechanism and know this is far bigger than I can handle.

00:11:35.96
Mike
And so I got to get loaded. Uh, and, but,

00:11:38.00
Bill
Right.

00:11:39.89
Mike
Yeah, you know, there are excuses, man. No matter what your pain, your trauma, whatever, there's people, there are people around you. If you allow people to be around you to help you with those things. And, um, they're never as big as you think they are. And you can get through them. That's kind of the whole point. You don't need to medicate yourself. There's a, there's a better way to do it and it's to face it, walk through it, get to the other side and guess what? Then it's behind you. That's, that's it. That is just it. It's then it's behind you. And then, then it's up to you to turn around and look at it again or move away from it.

00:12:22.72
Bill
Right. You know, it's funny, though, when you talk about like pulling out the excuses, and as you as you were saying that I could then I'm starting to I'm remembering like specific circumstances when, and well, here's the thing.

00:12:31.04
Mike
and Right.

00:12:32.31
Bill
So I was never one of those people that said, who had a bad day, I need a drink until I until I was, you know, and, you know, until I started when when shit went in, I can think of circumstance, it's not gonna bring them up because it involves other people.

00:12:45.08
Mike
well if and Right, exactly.

00:12:45.62
Bill
And it's, it's, it's, and it's unimportant, you know, but You know, so these, these situations started coming up and then that's when I started to drink on purpose. You know what I mean? And, or drink for a purpose, I guess. Cause I was drinking to, um, to begin with, try to piss off, you know, other people.

00:13:05.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:05.27
Bill
Um, but then on top of the figure and we'll fuck it, man, you know, I'm, I feel better this way anyhow. So why the fuck not, you know?

00:13:11.15
Mike
Right.

00:13:11.22
Bill
and then getting in this whole uncaring mode and then that led up to my DUI and you know, imagine that, right? um You know, but then other things too is that when, you know, when shit would go bad, um I would drink.

00:13:21.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:23.28
Bill
But then again, when shit went good, I would drink, you know?

00:13:25.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:25.96
Bill
But it was so much easier when when things were when things were bad because then, you know, get together, whether it's a, again, a funeral, it's a bad situation, whatever the thing is, especially if you're around a group of people, you know, I mean, everyone gets to, you know, gets to wallow, you know, together over,

00:13:34.85
Mike
Uh huh.

00:13:40.51
Mike
Right.

00:13:41.42
Bill
You know over over glasses which you know again there and that's the thing too that so.

00:13:42.95
Mike
This is...

00:13:48.75
Bill
um You know the kept excuses for drinking in in that sort of thing and identifying the excuses it even hiding them you know. I think we've talked about this before, that under certain circumstances, holidays, bad moments, fun moments, summer times, things like that, you know, we were able to blend a little bit more and maybe, you know, could kind of pull out those excuses that nobody thought anything of it because everyone else was, too.

00:14:10.38
Mike
I was waiting. Sure.

00:14:11.96
Bill
But, you know, I've said this before, and I, when I talk about my, you know, Dawn, my ex-wife, you know, she and I, we we went out a lot when when we first got together. We had so much fun. and you know i never ever said you know that i don't think that she drag excessively it's never people do people drink too much on on certain time frames but never problematic never a thing like that i would never point that finger but we did these things you know what i need it was this party atmosphere and then she understood when the party ended nine ever did you know,

00:14:27.84
Mike
Sure.

00:14:40.45
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:14:41.25
Bill
And that was like that years ago when when my daughter's mom and I were together and under any circumstance, it was just that, you know, the same thing that, um you know, I could I could blend as long as it was yeah the right moment.

00:14:54.75
Mike
Right.

00:14:54.79
Bill
And then other than that, like you and I both have, you know, kind of admittedly said that right, wrong or different. I mean, we were all whether we met to isolate or it's just where we were in our lives.

00:15:01.65
Mike
Right.

00:15:03.95
Bill
You know, we had that at that time, that freedom you know where people didn't see our shit all the time, you know,

00:15:08.81
Mike
right Yeah. Well, exactly. You know, I mean, did other people just got in the way, man, you know, and they were going to, they were going to look at me sideways and whatever. And then fuck you. No, I'm going to go off and buy myself and do what I want to do and get out of my goddamn mind.

00:15:23.09
Bill
Right. Well, and if ah if anyone is hasn't listened to it yet, the the episode we had Kathy on our sister, um she told a story about me at Christmas time one year.

00:15:29.51
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:33.29
Bill
um And it was it was ugly, you know, and it was probably a 10 or 15 minute story.

00:15:35.57
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:38.12
Bill
It wasn't long. She wasn't being, she wasn't being mean or cruel. um It was one of those things where, you know, she even asked, she's like, Can I tell that story? Oh, fuck, you're on here. Let's let's let's go, man.

00:15:46.72
Mike
Right Right-huh Sure Mm

00:15:47.75
Bill
And it was probably one of the most It since I've been sober with the exception of the beginning when you're trying to make amends and get people back and you know Kind of get your shit together. Probably one of the most uncomfortable 15 minutes of my of my 14 years um You know listening to that but I needed to hear it, you know and I needed to hear it and I needed to feel sick to my stomach when I heard it and I needed to

00:16:10.11
Mike
-hmm

00:16:11.67
Bill
not even you know uh it wasn't even being ashamed of it i was just like god damn this that's who i was number one and so grateful that i don't have to be that person today but you know the um that uneasiness i think is a wonderful wonderful feeling it's a wonderful emotion to have um i want to feel sick to my stomach when i hear shit like that because if if i get angry if i don't feel that way there's something fucking wrong with me you know

00:16:25.89
Mike
I don't know.

00:16:35.67
Mike
Right. Absolutely.

00:16:36.51
Bill
not

00:16:36.62
Mike
like Yeah.

00:16:37.32
Bill
it in a not it it but then My sobriety's in the wrong way. you know it's not not It's not in the right direction.

00:16:41.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:16:42.64
Bill
so um But yeah, I mean, it just, I don't know.

00:16:43.15
Mike
Exactly.

00:16:46.30
Bill
I mean, that, yeah well, hurts and fears listing them. I mean, I don't think that you, what, everything?

00:16:52.17
Mike
that

00:16:52.64
Bill
That was like the end of the reading was, yeah, oh, let's make a list of my, hurt let's think about all my hurts and fears and list them. I'm like, fuck, first of all, I don't want to do that. And second of all, um it's just like all of them, you know?

00:17:00.84
Mike
right Right Yeah, right yeah what there clearly you know any excuse I could use to make myself ah appear um Not to be a complete selfish asshole.

00:17:04.43
Bill
ah

00:17:15.99
Mike
um No, there's a there's an actual reason for me to be this drunken asshole ah No, no, I'm just a drunken asshole I'm just trying to sugarcoat it, but there is no sugarcoating to this

00:17:22.20
Bill
Right.

00:17:29.39
Mike
Yes, I've got problems and whatever maybe I had to try to work on them and not fucking get drunk and make everybody else feel like shit Yeah

00:17:38.22
Bill
Well, the other thing I thought about too, when you were talking about aches and pains and yeah, I mean, I'm right there with you. I mean, as opposed to, you know, whether it's 14 years ago or 20 years ago, certainly, you know, more than 30 years ago, I mean, I, I heard, I heard all the time. Like I said, when I was talking about my back pain, I'm like, is this just who I am now? You know, cause I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to stop walking. I'm not going to stop walking around on trails. I'm I'm just, I try to take care of myself and I don't over exert myself, you know, but you know, in my knees after I do some of these, you know, if it's three, four, that one day,

00:18:02.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:07.33
Bill
when i was in iowa you know i walked seven fucking miles i was a fuck it was wreck i'm just like holy fuck and i'm just sitting there watching tv go you know what you know how i felt like joe bite

00:18:09.91
Mike
Right.

00:18:21.35
Bill
sorry about that that's why what can i just say one thing real quick all i want to do this is nothing to do with his politics at all on this has to do with the fact will fly a sort of heat he's the leader of the free world which he said he's a leader of the world so i don't know if he's austin power or no act doctor even our whenever he is but

00:18:24.99
Mike
Sure.

00:18:27.55
Mike
ah Right.

00:18:38.57
Bill
Um, I just, I want to take him and grab him by the hand to just get him a sweater in a bowl of soup.

00:18:38.83
Mike
Uh-huh. Yup.

00:18:44.49
Bill
I want to, I want to take away his car keys and make sure he's taken care of. That's what I want to do. And then if, if Jill comes up and says, no, he's fine. I want to have her committed because she's fucking notes.

00:18:54.26
Mike
Right.

00:18:55.27
Bill
Um, I just, to the I'm to the point now where the human side of me is coming out and it's, this has nothing to do with whether I grew with his politics or don't.

00:18:57.27
Mike
Hmm. Right.

00:19:02.53
Bill
It's irrelevant. I'm like, holy fuck, man, this dude's in, he's in fucking trouble, you know?

00:19:06.70
Mike
Yeah. Right. I know. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Go, go, go sit down and enjoy your, go enjoy something, man. Cause this ain't good. Right.

00:19:15.86
Bill
you know i know okay so enough of that i don't remember how how got on to that but so that the aches and pains and stuff like that when right after i got sobered i know i've talked about this but um i mean i think it was the you know coming down whatever the medications and shit i mean my body getting back in shape get rid of all the alcohol and whatever too was i was sore like fucking top to bottom for you know at least a couple of months you know and and then you know i was i was taking ibuprofen all the time and i still do because if i think it pains i take ibuprofen but i mean i'm just like man i fucking i'm sure at forty one i still i had some back pains and knees and whatever ah i just didn't feel it for probably ten years you know or you know more than that.

00:19:29.15
Mike
All right.

00:19:53.79
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

00:19:56.65
Bill
ah but I'm sure i had those pains that someone in my in my thirties but it's just like it all a sudden somebody somebody rip the fucking band aid often it's just an open wound and i'm like god damn it i'm sore but um yeah you know the thing of it is i mean i we've got we both gone through some shit you know in sobriety

00:20:07.19
Mike
You need some of this.

00:20:15.22
Bill
um i don't I don't know, I don't want to compare it, you know, better, worse and different, but whatever it is, you and I, and along with anyone else that's that's been sober, you know, we all go through some shit, you know, all go through life just like any other normal person.

00:20:18.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:26.83
Bill
But um I mean, ah you know, we've we've learned and figured out, you know, that we don't have to medicate ourselves anymore, that we actually have, like you said, people around us, tools to use, all those different things.

00:20:36.39
Mike
the

00:20:38.04
Bill
If we choose, you know, we don't have to wallow and live in our shit.

00:20:38.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:41.15
Bill
We don't have to live that way anymore today.

00:20:43.55
Mike
Exactly. Yep.

00:20:46.38
Bill
But yeah, so that was, ah I like that. That was a good reading. Starts off with, you know, snakes and inappropriate conversations, but I think we handled that one pretty well.

00:20:53.03
Mike
Yes, most things do. Yeah, you know.

00:20:56.91
Bill
okay

00:20:57.73
Mike
Best we can.

00:20:58.73
Bill
Right. You know, it's funny, though, on that. I was just thinking about that. And it's probably happened on at least the three podcasts that I've listened to and in a couple others. I know that. um But those three specifically, I listened to them sometimes. And every every time they have a topic and one has a story and one has this, every single one of those podcasts, they'll get off, start to get off on a tangent. Like, yeah we don't want to get off on a tangent, but just real quick and then like, let's get back on track. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, that's all this podcast is. It's just

00:21:27.38
Mike
mm-hmm right exactly squirrel

00:21:28.94
Bill
Sober, not my tangent. Sober out of tangent.

00:21:35.94
Bill
ah Like we wouldn't have anything to fucking talk about ah if one of us didn't be like, oh, wait, I see a boat, you know, and then I start talking about shiny objects. But yeah, exactly. Exactly. So um speaking of, we haven't talked about in a couple of weeks, you want to give your radio gig another plug? I mean, I've got it on here. Just ah maybe keep it in front of people's minds. It's up to you.

00:21:55.98
Mike
Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, you know, real quick. ah Yeah, I will be once again on WJCU, the metal on metal radio show, August 30th, 7, 7 p.m. Eastern time. um Yeah, playing really awful music. you You know, enjoy it. Make your ears bleed and make your stomach like sick. And it's it's wonderful.

00:22:15.15
Bill
like

00:22:16.65
Mike
It's a wonderful feeling. It takes away your pain.

00:22:20.85
Bill
Wonderful feeling and for a good cause and something you do. Is this going to be year seven or eight? i Is it?

00:22:26.42
Mike
No, I believe six.

00:22:29.22
Bill
Okay. I was trying to give you more, but

00:22:30.06
Mike
Yeah. Well, you know, there's a couple of years pandemic was in the way and we couldn't do it. So yeah yep.

00:22:34.92
Bill
no yeah yeah okay i gotcha but um no i just i don't know it's uh i i have it on the list and i forgot about it last week but i don't know every couple of weeks we can just tease it a little bit and as we get a little bit closer we'll we'll start posting about it and um obviously said set up links and everything on our website i think i still have gcu on our sponsor page if i'm not mistaken i've looked at it in a while but um

00:22:37.52
Mike
Yup.

00:22:50.76
Mike
Right. Cool. Yeah. wjcu.org. You know, it's it's a community based college radio station and you know, they they take donations all year long and radio thorns in February.

00:23:06.68
Bill
Right?

00:23:06.88
Mike
Alright, now for that.

00:23:09.27
Bill
Yeah, but i was I was going to say that, uh, yeah, it's, um, hang on one second. I, while we're talking here, I'm just going to pop on.

00:23:13.82
Mike
she

00:23:14.35
Bill
I think I have, I just, I, you know, I, I keep these, um, I keep these links on here. I'm pretty sure I have it. Um, the fuck that. Oh yeah. yeah Um, yep. It's the, it's the last one on our sponsor page. I usually move it up when, um, obviously as you're, as it gets closer, but go to sober.mature.com, go to our sponsor page and you can click on there and donate anytime of the year, as Mike said. So yeah, absolutely.

00:23:36.83
Mike
Yep, absolutely. Yep. Yep, and I'm missing the show cuz we're taping this fucking thing No, I think we're pretty good man, you know, don't use your snakes anymore for evil use them for good

00:23:41.87
Bill
yeah Yeah, exactly. But um so what else? Anything else on the reading or pretty good?

00:23:55.75
Bill
Uh, I just kind of sometimes I wonder it's like I wonder if there's gonna be anything with snakes in our episode title That'll be interesting to see but But um, okay, so i've got uh, I still want to try to do some cleanup things I got a couple of things that I that I wrote down this week I'm still listening to the dennis dunaway book. Um, nothing once again has popped out to me.

00:24:13.74
Mike
goal

00:24:15.51
Bill
i'm I'm sure i'll finish that up.

00:24:15.65
Mike
Go You know if I know right?

00:24:16.97
Bill
Um, maybe even this weekend Oh, so the um, the cheese head thing or the the cheese land thing so I already had the the trip to go northern Wisconsin in, again, never heard of the town before, but it's called Niagara, Wisconsin. I've had that book for a couple of months, but that's, I'm going to be there for three weeks from August, or I'm sorry, July 20th through August 10th. And then um looking around, whatever, I found another place in a town I've never heard of called Gresham, G-R-E-S-H-A-M. So it's about an hour. north of appleton hour between there and nyagra whatever so i put that for this week so i'm heading out there tomorrow and then next weekend before i go up to nyagra just gonna shoot back to appleton that i can see alleys soccer stuff so like what what the hell but yeah so as of tomorrow i'll be i'll be in wisconsin for a month which is kind of what my plan was for the month of june but i couldn't afford to do it so i cooled i think cooled by financial heels for you know

00:24:53.38
Mike
cool cool

00:25:13.22
Bill
here and there a little bit i still did some things but uh you know was able to kind of cool things off but yeah it'll be it'll be nice so and um yeah that both these places i made sure the internet and shit was in place and obviously i needed for work but i fucking need it for this thing too so um but yeah the the last thing so the arkansas thing i went i kicked around a couple of the trails whatever

00:25:26.62
Mike
right

00:25:30.09
Mike
Right.

00:25:33.05
Bill
same old shit it was it was beautiful is wonderful but um these these places to get back did i tell you that they were like dirt and gravel roads did i tell you about that the last time i couldn't remember if i went on one okay so um just two different two apparently there are a lot of these ones around there it's not just gravel roads they're dirt potholes ruts i mean like your your top speed is like 10 okay and i'm driving back there with my fucking car

00:25:39.37
Mike
I don't think so. Yeah, right.

00:25:58.76
Mike
That's it.

00:25:58.88
Bill
And the one I went to was going down into this campground area and at the campgrounds down by the river. And, you know, so you're up and going down. I mean, the sign says, you know, Hey, it's best if you have a four wheel drive or a car with decent clearance.

00:26:12.82
Mike
That's not good.

00:26:13.62
Bill
I'm like, Oh fuck it. I made it down the last one. I'm like, it'll be fine.

00:26:16.08
Mike
That's not good.

00:26:16.15
Bill
And as I'm going down there, I'm like. i' like Jesus Christ this is steep and then coming back out so all-wheel drive I have and it's the first time that with the exception of if I've been in the snow and like just hammered on the gas I'll see the the the display I can see the rear wheels you know obviously kick in

00:26:23.26
Mike
hurry

00:26:32.64
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:26:34.16
Bill
especially if you're on a hill in the snow. um But coming up, so going uphill, trying to get traction and not, I can't go too fast.

00:26:42.10
Mike
Right.

00:26:42.34
Bill
um And then hitting these ruts and shit like that, I'm like, motherfucker, man. and was like I'm like, I'm gonna fuck the shit out of my car.

00:26:49.07
Mike
my fast

00:26:50.70
Bill
But to um I mean, first of all, it was it was fun, it was worth it, but I'm like, Jesus. i And I'm seeing people drive in and out of here in cars a lot smaller than mine.

00:26:57.63
Mike
Oh, I'm sure.

00:26:59.20
Bill
I'm like, there's gotta be people to fuck up their cars going going down in there.

00:27:02.71
Mike
Right.

00:27:03.63
Bill
But you know, I'm like, um in there it's like like two and three miles of this stuff.

00:27:04.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:07.67
Bill
And you just go like 10 and I'm like, Oh God.

00:27:08.05
Mike
Right.

00:27:12.17
Bill
But anyhow, it was, it was fun. I had a great time. It was beautiful down there. I'd like to get down there again. Um, I was looking at going down there again towards like the, the end of August, but the area that I want to go to the, this national forest that I want to see, um, I can't find a place that's affordable.

00:27:26.06
Mike
Right.

00:27:26.76
Bill
I mean, all the places around there, I'm looking at are too expensive. So ah later on, later.

00:27:29.71
Mike
right Yeah, well, it's it's peak season, man. Right.

00:27:33.08
Bill
I know, I know. But yeah, there's a couple other places i'm I'm looking at. But for now, yeah, Wisconsin for a month. So I'm actually looking forward to that.

00:27:39.19
Mike
and

00:27:40.56
Bill
But also, I mean, the kids are coming up while I'm up in the northern part and coming up for the one weekend. And like I said, I get down, get down to Appleton next weekend and see Ollie play soccer, which is the point. That's the point with all this shit anyhow is being able to you know i'll spend time with with those around. Yeah, it's nice to be, you know kick around and I get time by myself in some cases, not that I'm looking for that specifically, but you know that and seeing all these different places. But the whole point is you know being around family and people, right?

00:28:06.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:07.84
Bill
That's what I tell myself anyhow.

00:28:09.23
Mike
Sure. Hehehehehehehe.

00:28:10.47
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So, um all right, so what about, okay, the word community.

00:28:15.68
Mike
Huh?

00:28:16.97
Bill
All right, so we talk about, obviously, you know, the the recover recovery community and we talk about fellowship and that sort of thing, but it's, the word itself community is, I don't want to say it's a bad buzz word, but it's definitely a common buzz word on, you know, podcasts and Instagram and and that sort of thing.

00:28:22.28
Mike
You know this? What is this?

00:28:34.68
Bill
um so So we always use, again, we use more of the term, like the fellowship. And I know we use community, but I think it's more of a, to me, I've heard it more on, you know, social media and Instagram. But um in, in your opinion, I mean, what, what do you think is the, the most important, number one, most important part of it, why it's important, especially for people who are new when you first get sober, whether you call a community or fellowship or just being around people.

00:28:45.09
Mike
Right.

00:28:57.98
Bill
Speak into that.

00:28:59.02
Mike
Right. Well, i yeah, we we can't do this alone. um We clearly tried. um You know, um I mean, ah whatever you want to call it, I mean, it it kind of plays into the power greater than yourself thing. I mean, you've got to, you've got to be a part of something bigger than yourself. And the easiest way to do that is to become involved with a community, a fellowship, a whatever the word is you want to plug in there. um You know, I mean, fellowship kind of sounds a little religious.

00:29:31.08
Mike
That's why I think probably more people use community these days. um

00:29:34.83
Bill
right

00:29:35.68
Mike
You know, yeah, group of fucking people, man, group of drunks, G-O-D, right?

00:29:39.87
Bill
right

00:29:40.36
Mike
You know, yes, that that is a component to this thing. We cannot do it by ourselves. I could not get sober by myself. There's no way in hell. You know, my mind's too fucked up. I will talk about snakes, man. I will find excuses. I will write. I can rationalize and justify anything left to my own devices and did.

00:29:59.96
Bill
Right.

00:30:01.08
Mike
for a long, long time.

00:30:01.98
Bill
Right.

00:30:03.43
Mike
um So I need other people. I need other eyes on me. I need to have eyes on other people. I need to see what to do and what not to do. And yes, because my way doesn't work. And the only way to see another way is to actually see another way. And you're not going to see that in a fucking mirror. You just can't. So yes, you know, an early recovery.

00:30:22.77
Bill
Bye.

00:30:24.78
Mike
Absolutely. You need to be around other people. You need to be accountable. That's a huge part of it. Um, you know, because again, crawling off by yourself with your snakes, um, you will, you'll get loaded. You just, you just will, you don't have a choice. Um, so yes, it is very important. Um, you know, I mean, we've talked about it out here at nausea, man. You don't go to very many meetings anymore. I go to one a week. Um, you know, and that's, it's funny, my home group, my home group, right? The one meeting I go to a week, um, last week, um, a bunch of home group members weren't there.

00:30:59.53
Mike
um for various reasons and so there was like two of us and ah You know and then you know the recovery guys the cover house guys and blah blah blah blah blah and um the person that was supposed to be chairing didn't show up and therefore the lead didn't show up and we're like Me and the other guy are looking at each other going. Okay, what are we gonna fucking do? Well, let's say we could have a discussion meeting I'm gonna have a fucking meeting right, you know, we're here.

00:31:23.11
Bill
Haha.

00:31:27.56
Mike
This is it's in the schedule We have to have a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous Um, what are we gonna do? You know, so we're like, well, maybe we'll have a discussion. Maybe we'll you know, whatever and um This woman that used to be very regular, like shit, 10 years ago, um you know at eight, nine, maybe even seven years ago, she was still pretty regular. She was there for a long time. And um she just walked in and it was like, what the fuck, man? you know I mean, I'd seen her, she'd been there, I don't know, a few months before, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. But um she walked in and I went, well, um okay. So I walked over to her and I said, hey, how you doing? you know Good to see you, whatever.

00:32:09.13
Mike
um What are you doing for the next half hour or so? And she smiled and she said, why? I said, because you know our lead our chair didn't show up, our lead didn't show up. And she goes, yeah, I'll do it. So she got up and she led. And it was great. She's got 27 years sober.

00:32:25.30
Bill
Oh wow.

00:32:25.94
Mike
Yeah, right. you know But it was funny what made me think of all of this. And she got up there and she was doing her lead. And and she was saying, you know I don't go to as many meetings as I used to. And I was like, yeah, no shit, man. 27 years, you know. Um, we don't, you know, but she talked about first year I went to a meeting every day, you know, um, then the following five years, I probably did five or six meetings a week, you know, and then, you know, yes, it backs off, man. You know, I mean, we said it a million times on here, but I didn't get sober to spend my life in a church basement. I did not, um, you know, I need to be a part of, and I need to be of service. And that's why I go to my home group every week.

00:33:09.97
Mike
but have Shit, I don't I don't need that fellowship the way I did my first year my first five years I don't Thankfully, you know inside job, man.

00:33:18.54
Bill
Right.

00:33:20.70
Mike
I do the work I do the work every day that I need to do and So I don't need to go sit in a church basement, you know, I'm fine sitting in my living room um You know and the wonderful thing is, you know, especially being here in Cleveland, you know if For some weird reason, I was not doing what I was supposed to do and needed to get to that church basement. There's a lot of them here. um Every night of the week, there's plenty of them I can go to. I just thankfully don't have to today.

00:33:50.51
Bill
Right yeah and you know what um and I was just thinking about well I was thinking about a couple of things when well as soon as you said you know the way she walked in the room and like I knew what happened um because that's just that that is what happens but again that that goes back to you know kind of even goes back to what we were talking about last week for for her for instance I'm sure I I'm not I'm gonna guess she probably hasn't led in a while she doesn't go a lot of meetings and

00:34:12.62
Mike
All right. All right.

00:34:13.86
Bill
and I'm sure it was good for her to be asked but she had to put herself in that position and you were available and blah blah blah.

00:34:16.87
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:34:19.41
Bill
Like we were talking about making ourselves available.

00:34:20.73
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:34:21.91
Bill
You went to the meeting to be involved and all that stuff.

00:34:24.31
Mike
Yep.

00:34:24.79
Bill
you know But the same thing with um yeah i mean everything you just said about the number of meetings and the fellowship and all those sort of things. It is kind of funny because even though ah both you and I have openly admitted that this thing right now, right here that we're doing, um filled a huge void for me.

00:34:36.61
Mike
Hmm.

00:34:42.46
Bill
And I think you do, you know, but i I just openly and admittedly, I knew I needed something.

00:34:42.81
Mike
Right. Sure.

00:34:47.82
Bill
I needed a podcast. And then this, this is a structure that I didn't have in my life, um you know, for the last, I don't know, a couple years before we, well, a year before we started doing it.

00:34:49.38
Mike
Okay.

00:34:57.42
Mike
Right.

00:34:57.59
Bill
um And and it is same deal. I had a it felt like a really long week. It wasn't bad It was a little slow, you know as everything I always talk about, you know, it's ups and downs in the collection side of things This was a slow week. It was I had a couple of weird nights sleep. I don't know why I was fucking tired all week um And you know sitting here like 20 minutes before we got on and I'm like I am so fucking

00:35:15.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:22.02
Bill
its and i'm i'm getting up early tomorrow too you know i mean i'm not gonna like sleep in because i'm driving up to wisconsin but um all these different things once we get on here and when once we were talking for five minutes i mean all of that shit that i was thinking about you know literally an hour ago was gone you know and it's it's just that it's so nice but the thing of it is too is that

00:35:25.31
Mike
Right?

00:35:32.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:44.84
Bill
And my my plan when I started traveling and I did it when I was in South Carolina, I did it at a couple other places. I went to meetings when I was there. um You know, and the only reason I haven't in the last well, last handful of trips that I've done or more than that is because I'm doing other shit, you know, um and by the time it gets to the point where, you know, I get back and I mean, yeah I'm usually fucking drenched and swatted.

00:35:53.09
Mike
Right.

00:36:01.55
Mike
right Right.

00:36:08.65
Bill
whatever so i i take a shower and i eat and i just sit on my ass and i'm fucking tired you know um but the thing of it is sometimes i i know for a fact and whether like you just said if we're not doing something right and and that sort of thing we know we can find a meeting of worst case scenario every one of us has one of these fucking electronical devices you know that in there's there's millions of thousands of nothing else online meetings almost at every anytime i can find a meeting if i need one right now

00:36:24.70
Mike
Yep.

00:36:32.40
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:36:36.54
Mike
Right.

00:36:36.64
Bill
um but i might just get to the point where i'm like you know what fuck it i'm gonna go to a meeting because i have the time and i feel like it and i just want to go check out what this what this a a looks like in whatever fucking town i'm in you know and maybe just to get around people i don't i don't necessarily crave the

00:36:47.92
Mike
Right.

00:36:53.88
Bill
I'm not, I was just going to say, I don't crave the attention of people.

00:36:56.97
Mike
Oh.

00:36:57.14
Bill
um I'm fine, you know, not being around people all the time. I've worked remote now for, for a couple years. I mean, yeah, I'm around Kathy. I'm around other people here and there.

00:37:05.64
Mike
Right.

00:37:05.69
Bill
But when I'm, when I'm traveling and stuff like that, it doesn't, I don't feel lonely, you know, which is, it's, ah's it's great being, I was talking to somebody about that, and you know, the person that said that it's a,

00:37:09.29
Mike
Now.

00:37:15.91
Mike
Mm

00:37:16.80
Bill
it's a testament to you know us and i don't mean this you know pat myself in the back but when we get to this point where we're comfortable in our own in our own space and with ourselves i mean that's that's a hell of a nice place to be you know.

00:37:21.55
Mike
hmm.

00:37:26.56
Mike
Yeah, right. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. I can sit here with myself and not feel uncomfortable because I'm okay.

00:37:36.87
Bill
right? Yeah, and you know, just I just think about so many for so many fucking years. um I couldn't, I couldn't sit still, you know, or if I if I was by myself, and that's when that's when I drank, you know, I mean, I had, I couldn't, I couldn't, the silence was deafening, you know,

00:37:49.91
Mike
Right. Right.

00:37:54.78
Bill
Is the only way to put it and and now i'm just i said back i'll put the tv on or do whatever i'll you know One of the one of my favorite times of night, you know is after I take my contacts out I brush my teeth and sometimes i'll mess around on my phone i'll get on facebook or pop on instagram Sometimes i'll i'll kick around and read some articles i'll do whatever but it's it's a half hour 45 minutes of just Yeah, it's it's quote unquote screen time, but that's quiet time for me, you know, and it's

00:38:12.63
Mike
Is it?

00:38:17.27
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:38:21.14
Bill
it's not it's not noise i'm looking at whatever i want i'm not trying to absorb necessarily um but it's it's something i it's ah it's a wind down almost type of thing but i don't know i mean all of this just comes down to just us being you know comfortable with ourselves but you know back to the initial point of this with community i know for a fucking fact i didn't know it at the time

00:38:29.45
Mike
yeah

00:38:41.76
Bill
I never would have um I I don't 99.99 percent sure I would not have stayed sober if I would have done an ILP thing I know we talked about that um the only reason I stayed at the Keating Center because I didn't have to none of us did like you say that gates never locked you know or doors not locked um was because of the people I started to you know just I actually enjoyed you all you motherfuckers you know and or after I figured out that nobody wanted to kill me I was cool with it you know

00:38:49.94
Mike
um like ah Right.

00:39:03.95
Mike
a Right.

00:39:09.58
Bill
um But, you know, it is it it is the the people and that fellowship that community that we had um at that time and some of those guys are still part of our community.

00:39:11.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:39:19.88
Mike
Absolutely.

00:39:19.94
Bill
um That's the only reason I stayed and, you know, in turn, all of those that whole combined thing is the reason I stayed sober, you know, no individual.

00:39:24.23
Mike
No.

00:39:29.34
Bill
you know But as ah as a collective, that's what that's what kept me there. that's We hear a lot of people that you know in their leads say that, that the you know the fellowship you know kept them going to meetings and you know got them to the meetings and then you know things start to stick and then you go, then everything everything just kind of falls into place.

00:39:46.78
Mike
Absolutely.

00:39:47.58
Bill
I'm kind of simplifying it, but you know that's kind of what happens.

00:39:50.71
Mike
It is, it is. But yeah, the the main point is we can't do it by ourselves. We just cannot. We need yeah other people around us and as a loner and a self-described anti-social person and it still am.

00:40:04.14
Bill
right

00:40:06.34
Mike
um Yeah. You know, I need, I need other people occasionally. Yes. Not all the damn time.

00:40:12.96
Bill
I like that idea of the people, occasionally, not all the time, just a little bit of qualifying there.

00:40:15.46
Mike
Yes. Right.

00:40:17.93
Bill
but Okay, so I guess let's ah let's take a little break here and let other people talk. Well, it's us and usually another advertiser dropped in there, but either way, what do you say we take a break, Mike?

00:40:28.33
Mike
You know what, Bill, let's take that break. We'll be right back with more of sober, not mature right after these words from our sponsors.

00:40:43.96
Bill
All right, everyone, welcome back. And I like how you said that. You said sponsors because usually, and it's it's just funny, I mean, and again, I know you don't listen to the episodes, but I've got things set up now where it's, well, I don't set it up.

00:40:52.52
Mike
Right.

00:40:56.49
Bill
AI pops the ads in automatically.

00:40:58.41
Mike
Right.

00:40:59.13
Bill
but usually um and i think that it's gotta recognize the fact that you say word from our sponsor so i like when you do that um you've always said it it started as a fucking joke because i listened back to there was an episode whenever it was you're like how about word from our sponsor and i'm like and'm like wait a second see that again man you got you gotta to do that from now on i like that

00:41:09.51
Mike
Right.

00:41:18.91
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:19.76
Bill
But um yeah, usually it's it's either our website ad than a regular you know sponsor ad or vice versa.

00:41:23.54
Mike
This is.

00:41:26.03
Bill
But it is it's kind of funny, but yeah, sometimes it's we say something or you know there's something fucking nasty going into it. Then it's like, hi, we're so-and-so.

00:41:31.78
Mike
she right

00:41:35.29
Bill
The one week when we were driving out to Founders Day, it was um two two ads out of the episode because usually it's four maybe that's spread out maybe three or four whatever it is.

00:41:45.34
Mike
ah

00:41:46.17
Bill
Ryan Reynolds with Mint Mobile. So so yeah yeah yeah, you go into the break saying something fucking nasty and all of a sudden, hi, this is Ryan Reynolds.

00:41:48.49
Mike
um la

00:41:56.24
Bill
and

00:41:56.45
Mike
Yes, well he said a few nasty things in his career, so it's fine.

00:42:00.17
Bill
No, I don't it's which is kind of perfect because is the whole mint mobile thing for him is kind of on the nice end But I started I watched part of Deadpool within the last I don't know month and because well, I I own it I bought it, you know everyone first came out and it's it's paid for itself time and time again I can't i I don't get sick of it.

00:42:10.46
Mike
Uh-huh I'm sure Yeah,

00:42:19.17
Bill
It just fucking cracks me up every goddamn time but Alright, so to wrap it up community we need it but we don't always need it and it's okay that we don't always need it We're fine with ourselves so

00:42:28.09
Mike
yeah it's a it's a good thing that we don't always need it right in the beginning you're bucking back to ass We fucking need it most of the time Um, yeah, you know, but that, that backs off because we're getting hopefully better and we don't need that constant, you know, but we, we still need it.

00:42:36.53
Bill
Right.

00:42:46.02
Mike
That is the point. We do still need it. So yes, become a part of something bigger than yourself and then you can sit with yourself. It's nice.

00:42:53.35
Bill
Right. Yeah, it is adjusted as we were we were talking about that it does it just fucking blows my mind because Yeah, what ah I mean literally anyhow night and day difference to wait the way it used to be but yeah, it's good shit Alright, so we've talked plenty about self will and this came from keep it simple God knows when but it says I'll list all the areas that self will gets in my way and I'll read my list every day next week, and I'll try to put love in place of self-will. Now, the reason I wrote down the whole thing is it made me laugh, when i because you know you and I, have were but our fucking self-will and everything, we're going to place love in there, which, i mean again, it just it sounded funny to me.

00:43:22.75
Mike
um

00:43:33.18
Bill
but the The main part of it was a list of areas of and areas that self-will gets in my way.

00:43:38.66
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:40.74
Bill
So do you have specific things that you can think of where self-will gets in your way or just um anything in particular?

00:43:40.80
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:48.02
Mike
Um, I mean, everything, um, right. Um, you know, again, over time, um, I, I don't have a lot of self-will anymore. I certainly have will now, but, um, not so much self, man. You know, the, the will that I have is, is for, again, the bigger, greater thing. Um, whatever that, out this world, whatever the hell it is, man, you know, positive, good things. That's. When I try to focus on, um, yeah, self, you know, I mean, yeah, it gets my way every time, um, that I try to think of myself and put myself first and, um, it never works out very well. So I try not to do that because I'm still selfish and I don't want things to be fucked up. So, uh, for some reason, again, you know, that a math, I put others first and fuck man, my life is better.

00:44:43.50
Bill
right Yeah, the the only thing I could think of when when you were just talking about that is that um the times that it's been glaring for me is you know i think about it I think about it when um like I was searching for the job or when you know I'm trying to hit a certain goal or stuff like that. and you know it It gets down to the point where when I think that there's a At least a perceived threat to my well-being and usually it's a it's a financial thing for me Financial shit is what gets me.

00:45:09.90
Mike
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

00:45:12.99
Bill
um You know if I think it's gonna affect me financially That's when I try that's literally what myself will kind of starts pushing at it and I need to recognize it because I'll fuck it I'll fuck things up.

00:45:20.94
Mike
Mmhmm.

00:45:22.30
Bill
Well, you know that I mean, but it says that's what we do, you know, but You know that the two things that'll that'll fuck with my head and I figure this out, you know, I

00:45:26.15
Mike
It is.

00:45:31.80
Bill
was all my entire life but i figured out since i got sober financial shit and um members of the opposite sex relationship stuff that way those two things if i'm not careful both of those things will fuck me up you know if i let them you know because i again i i think too much or i ah get too involved and you know how things are in a relationship and

00:45:43.97
Mike
Right, yeah Right

00:45:52.54
Bill
either either you know if you get that that beautiful part of that that that relationship where everything clicks with the person until it doesn't you know sometimes you know but that's cool you know what everyone's on the same page but a lot of times it just it's human nature you know it's one person's up here the other person's down here and then maybe it flips and this and that you know or you know maybe you meet somebody on tinder and they ghost you for a month

00:46:11.52
Mike
Mm-hmm

00:46:16.68
Bill
I mean I don't know who that happened to but then look what look and look what happened. You did the right thing by just kind of hanging back but still kind of go hey by the way I'm over here.

00:46:25.72
Mike
Wait Still

00:46:25.84
Bill
Hello. Hello. yeah You know but I mean that.

00:46:30.61
Mike
working. Yes Yeah have driven Yes, and yes and no because again man it

00:46:32.12
Bill
Yeah but that couldn't have been easy I know it wasn't you know but. um

00:46:42.61
Mike
working the program being trusting the process and all that crap, all those stupid cliches, man, I incorporate them into my life today and and shit works out better, right?

00:46:52.38
Bill
Right?

00:46:54.55
Mike
Get the hell out of my own way and, you know, don't force things. and And if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. And if it isn't something else will happen. And yeah, you know, it, Relationships finance all that stuff at all if you apply this to whatever your fucking problem is Not just drugs and alcohol. Um yeah It fucking works man. It works, you know that the fear of financial insecurity will fucking leave me it has you know, I mean I i don't have as much money as I want um shit, man, I just

00:47:24.36
Bill
Right. and

00:47:31.43
Mike
got the letter in the mail yesterday from the county that, you know, the fucking property taxes are going up. and Um, it's funny, Chris, actually, we talked about it a bit earlier today. She's like, yeah, I got this letter. And I'm like, it's okay. You know, yeah She's going to, because they kind of jacked hers up more than they should have. And there's a process to go through to dispute it and and get it right. She's going to have to go through it on my game. And it actually wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. And I'm just kind of like, okay, well, I guess I'll have to fucking a pay a little more next year. Fuck.

00:48:04.61
Bill
yeah Right. well Yeah, but and that's the thing, you know, through through this, you know, the process and that's, you know, again, where where're this thing, you know, that we're doing right now has helped because um I get to bring this shit up and I talked about my job search through that entire process and, you know, revelations that I had or troubles I had had, and I talked about my goal and and all those sort of things.

00:48:21.88
Mike
Right.

00:48:27.51
Bill
And those are things that, you know, again, to to get back to that the community sort of thing, you know, and I don't, I mean, I know for a fact that I can i can make a phone call to you and talk about anything at any point. I know that.

00:48:39.40
Mike
Right.

00:48:39.99
Bill
And that's ah that's extremely comforting to me. um Even if I wasn't here like right now with with Kathy, our sister, um if I got some shit going on, I can talk to her and I know I can um at any point about about anything.

00:48:46.66
Mike
Right.

00:48:49.96
Mike
Right.

00:48:52.02
Bill
So I've got i've got people you know that I can go to, but it's not my first thing.

00:48:54.38
Mike
right

00:48:57.86
Bill
you know With everything that that comes up, I'm not that guy that's like, by I don't and don't spit out my entire life to everyone on everything.

00:49:04.75
Mike
Right Right exactly. Well, that's that's That's not good either, you know Posing all your nonsense on other people is not a good thing either.

00:49:10.59
Bill
right

00:49:14.98
Bill
that right

00:49:15.83
Mike
I Stuck my toe away.

00:49:16.16
Bill
right

00:49:17.82
Mike
Let's see again. That could that's ego shit and look at me Look at me and you know, shut the fuck up man. Hell your shit

00:49:24.32
Bill
Right. Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, just just all in all it is. It's ah anything with me. It's it all comes back to what we've talked about previously. It's things that that scare me and it's it's always fear based. Anytime that that myself will pops up um if I I don't even have to really think about it. All I have to do was is open my mind a little bit in my eyes and you know shut my fucking mouth for a minute and be like, oh, you know what? This is what you're afraid of and it'll be OK.

00:49:50.18
Mike
z

00:49:51.51
Bill
Same thing like you said. Work program put these you know allow these principles and that's the whole point allowing these principles you know in our lives i know i know what to do but i don't always do it stop right away.

00:50:02.34
Mike
Right, of course.

00:50:03.77
Bill
in that right way

00:50:03.91
Mike
Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. Right. so So prolong the fucking agony. Yay.

00:50:07.95
Bill
right

00:50:08.31
Mike
Or do it right away. Get it fucking over with and move on.

00:50:13.20
Bill
Yeah, I know it's and it is it's it's so fucked up, but you like you said as I see me we're still learning and um I mean fuck i'm a hell of a lot better than I used to be and I don't wallow and um, the the biggest thing is that uh that Uh the 10 step every night every single night, you know, I allow myself to you know to clear my head and I say allow myself because it is um, I I need to give myself that that time in that moment regardless of whatever

00:50:18.65
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:50:21.94
Mike
nothing

00:50:27.75
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:50:34.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:39.12
Bill
perceived fucked up shit is going on in my life or even good shit you know i just gotta get rid of it be like okay so i can sleep i don't know why i didn't i didn't sleep well i think it just had weird fucking dreams but who knows i still i i didn't go to bed with any anxiety but you know something was in my head to make me my dreams go butlin

00:50:41.95
Mike
Right.

00:50:52.95
Mike
Right.

00:50:55.42
Mike
say like

00:50:58.03
Bill
you know and i don't even know what the fuck they were you know i just wake up and i'm like holy fuck am i tired you know when you wake up and you're like oh god yep it's gonna be one of them damn days so next one here and i and i'm still working on this cleanup stuff these are kind of falling into place once again i did not plan any of this okay

00:51:03.92
Mike
right yeah

00:51:17.49
Bill
um I'm not smart enough. So this was from a day at a time. Do I still imagine that my satisfaction with life depends on what someone else may do?

00:51:30.25
Mike
Yeah Absa fucking lutely not

00:51:32.52
Bill
i yeah That's that's kind of just the I just kind of wanted your answer on that cuz I knew what it was gonna be but Yeah, that's kind of

00:51:39.71
Mike
No, no, no. Right, that is not what the community is about. ah No, no, my my satisfaction in life has nothing to do with anyone but me.

00:51:54.90
Bill
Right.

00:51:55.05
Mike
Now, I i allow people into my life that help with the satisfaction, absolutely. you know And if you're not helping with the satisfaction and you're not contributing to it and I'm not contributing to yours, then we're not in each other's lives, period.

00:52:10.65
Bill
right

00:52:11.43
Mike
Yeah, because I don't have time for that nonsense anymore. oh Yeah, no, my my life is, everything good and bad in my life is my fault.

00:52:23.74
Bill
Right.

00:52:24.38
Mike
Yep.

00:52:24.65
Bill
Yeah. And that's, and that is the thing. The only thing that we, that we even have any, and I don't want to use control, but any, the only thing that we can, can direct or even have a little bit of guidance in, um in this life is us, you know, and um it's, we're, we're this, we're in this thing together.

00:52:30.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:37.43
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:42.22
Bill
Yes. But I mean, we also have to, you know, we got to rely on ourselves and yeah, other people's actions and words and you know, they may stink, you know, people may hurt our feelings.

00:52:42.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:49.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:51.18
Bill
yeah you know or whatever but uh yeah i just say as i was reading that i just i was i was waiting for the answer but yeah imagine what my satisfaction life depends on another person i hope the fuck not that now again 15 16 years ago yes yes yes yes that was uh every every problem and like in my life was somebody else's problem or fault so

00:53:14.73
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:53:18.15
Bill
All right, so let's let's talk about a phrase that, and I'm sure you've heard this, but this a phrase that fucking irritates me, okay?

00:53:25.85
Mike
All right.

00:53:26.60
Bill
um

00:53:29.12
Bill
I hear this a lot and I've heard it, um God, I've heard it more probably around the recovery community. I'm sure it's in the um therapy community, but um lots of things to unpack or let's unpack this.

00:53:38.51
Mike
on no

00:53:44.73
Bill
We've got things to unpack, but man, I hear it. I hear it in work situations, thankfully. and I got to just take a quick side note here. The company that I work for, and and they're a big company. A lot of these people have been around different organizations, our managers, all this different stuff. i mean there you know there're People that have been around the business world for a long time, but there're people don't use all that fucking stupid corporate speak, and I'm so happy.

00:54:02.72
Mike
Right.

00:54:05.62
Mike
Right.

00:54:10.37
Bill
that

00:54:12.60
Mike
right

00:54:28.13
Mike
Yes.

00:54:28.46
Bill
But um, I I can't I fucking I hate it I just I just fucking hate it. I hear it on other podcasts. I hear it. ah I hear it all I see it on social media I hear it fucking everywhere and I I don't know Here's the thing. I mean, maybe this is I I don't think you have the answer to that, but I could be wrong Do people use terms like that? Do you think is do you think they think it makes them appear intelligent?

00:54:52.27
Mike
yes

00:54:53.36
Bill
really, I just

00:54:54.05
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

00:54:54.99
Bill
ah

00:54:55.68
Mike
Yeah, right. OK, first of all, keep your shit packed up. I don't want to fucking see it. Neither does anybody else.

00:55:02.15
Bill
but

00:55:02.17
Mike
OK, there's a reason that we have suitcases and backpacks.

00:55:04.86
Bill
Right.

00:55:05.38
Mike
And yes, there's a reason. Keep your shit in your shit. and yeah Now, of of course, you know, a problem shared is a problem cut in half and all that good stuff. Yes, we need to, you know, but yes, don't unpack all of your shit. yeah If there's this thing, Just look at it do what you need to do and again move on god this fucking dwelling shit man Stop dwelling on everything and nothing is that important you know two seconds from now It's two seconds later, and it'll be different.

00:55:31.29
Bill
okay okay

00:55:39.46
Mike
You know it constant the only constant is change um Yeah, don't don't don't unpack all this shit man. Nobody nobody cares

00:55:49.79
Bill
Well and the other thing too if you know if why can't somebody just say we've got a lot to talk about that's it you know if I you know I if I walked up I can't even imagine this so Mike okay so you you and I were getting together you know I got some you know I'm going through some stuff because I want to get together and and I'm like I'm going through some stuff can we you know we sit down maybe about Cleveland or whatever and I'm gonna be at your house anyhow so I'm gonna sit down with you and And I sit down and I say, Mike, OK, first of all, I got a lot to unpack.

00:55:55.76
Mike
Sure, right.

00:56:04.21
Mike
listen

00:56:07.07
Mike
sure

00:56:11.73
Mike
yeah um right then No, you've got a lot to pack because you got to get the fuck out.

00:56:22.77
Bill
yeah

00:56:24.95
Mike
think

00:56:27.37
Bill
Yeah, I mean, I just I I can't I I don't get it I just but yeah, and that's that was my only thing is that do people think that all these fucking buzzwords like that in the corporate community and this and that That somehow I don't understand that if you sit down with your you sit down with your kids and say hey We need to have a talk. You don't say hey, we need to we need to unpack some things, you know, I mean So why do you have to say it to on social media?

00:56:44.30
Mike
yeah right

00:56:49.60
Bill
I just say it, you know in in a in a work meeting I just don't I hate the fucking words.

00:56:52.72
Mike
Right.

00:56:54.13
Bill
I fucking hate them

00:56:56.65
Mike
Yeah, I know.

00:56:57.40
Bill
yeah

00:56:58.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:59.12
Bill
So anyhow, but the only thing that I thought about which kind of made me laugh was I wonder if um That term came about in the therapy community because people always said, you know, they got a lot of baggage It's just It just I don't know i I I had that written on there from a long time ago for whosever whosever podcast I was listening to but

00:57:10.54
Mike
Right. Yeah, probably. Yeah, exactly.

00:57:15.29
Mike
say

00:57:23.40
Mike
and and And you want to get an analogy for that, right? I mean, look at all the stuff you own, right? Everything that's packed, you know, you're going to move, right? You got to pack all your shit.

00:57:32.00
Bill
Right.

00:57:33.79
Mike
Okay. Yeah. What, when you're packing to move. all the crap you look at and go, I don't need any of this. I don't need, you know, I need, I need this and this is and the rest of it is a bunch of garbage.

00:57:45.86
Bill
Right.

00:57:45.87
Mike
So yeah, don't unpack your shit, man. Cause there's probably one or two things in there that need to be addressed and the rest of it is garbage. It doesn't fucking matter. So don't unpack all of that shit, please.

00:57:58.90
Bill
and sir Well, you know what? And that's a, that's actually a great analogy because I think if anyone's been listening for awhile, they realize that I have my stuff in storage. Okay.

00:58:07.67
Mike
Right.

00:58:07.95
Bill
Which literally has been there now for two years.

00:58:11.35
Mike
Yep.

00:58:11.65
Bill
I've had all of my stuff in storage. Um, literally everything that I own is in a 10 by 15 storage unit in Germantown, Wisconsin right now. I got some shit here, you know, i you know,

00:58:23.27
Mike
Right. Yeah. The shit you use, the shit you need, right. And there's this storage thing that you haven't touched in two years.

00:58:31.07
Bill
Right.

00:58:31.05
Mike
So clearly you don't need fucking anything in there.

00:58:34.91
Bill
Yeah, vio the only thing that i've I've stopped there, I think two or three times I stopped there once to get. um God, I think I grabbed some some stuff for Kimmy and Brian. I think they were like yard tools or things like that. I grabbed them.

00:58:47.66
Mike
Yeah, things for other people, things you didn't need.

00:58:51.06
Bill
Yeah. Oh, the only other thing that I needed, there was, I needed my um my tax documents. I had them, I knew I had them in my file cabinet.

00:58:57.70
Mike
All right. Yeah.

00:58:59.02
Bill
So i i I went there and I got my, I had all my shit and like the tax documents and I had everything labeled. So I knew where it was.

00:59:05.29
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:06.26
Bill
But it's just to like, well, I mean, again, when I when you're when you're packing stuff up like that, I'm like, if I ever need some of some of these important things, I need to know where this shit is.

00:59:06.63
Mike
Of course seen and you Right. Right.

00:59:15.38
Bill
um You know, but literally, I want the stuff that's in there right now when I have, well, whenever I take the time, um i I probably want half the shit in there. I want to I do want to get rid of, I don't need it anymore, you know?

00:59:25.90
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:59:27.34
Bill
And the only real furniture I have in there I've got, I want to give the toolbox either, ah you know, Derek or Brian, one of the two whoever wants it.

00:59:34.01
Mike
Right.

00:59:35.45
Bill
There's a loveseat in there I want to get rid of because I'm like, whatever, I end up someplace, I'll get new fucking furniture if I need to, or I won't.

00:59:35.45
Mike
the Right. Right.

00:59:43.63
Bill
um and there's just there's stuff in there like i'll fucking need oh i know what i stopped there for kimmy bryant it was foldable chairs they needed them uh they went from place i'm like i just i'll i got two of them in there i'll go grab them give them to you but um and i i think i i don't know whatever it was something else i stopped there for but i don't know what the fuck it was but yeah you're right i mean there's so much shit in there there's even stuff that i have here that i put in a closet here that i haven't looked at in probably a year you know

00:59:47.10
Mike
Right.

00:59:53.88
Mike
right Yeah.

01:00:05.24
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, ah you know, I've got you've been to my house, you know, all the crap I've got in here.

01:00:12.97
Bill
Right.

01:00:14.58
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, I don't need any of it. I like looking at most of it and I do on a, on a pretty much daily basis, but yeah, I got stuff that I haven't touched and you know, probably there's probably stuff here that I haven't touched since I moved in five years ago.

01:00:19.35
Bill
Right.

01:00:29.43
Mike
Um, you know, but there's also that it's, it's those things where, you know, okay. I have, I. Like stuff in the truck, right? I've got this big tool chat, uh, actually it's an igloo cooler that has my tools in it, right? Now I, there's stuff in there that I haven't touched in two years, but if I need, you know, if I need something, um, ah vice grips, right? Um, most of our equipment's pretty good. And, um, but I have a big pair of vice grips in there cause he pulled the,

01:00:59.93
Mike
Handle out in the back of the trailer the tandems they lock But every once in a while one won't lock and if you're by yourself You need the fucking vice grips to clamp on there to keep it open so you can slide the tandems Right, you know if I haven't touched them in probably a year and a half But I get that one fucking trailer that I need it I gotta slide the fucking tandems and I got those in there if I need them Yes

01:01:23.54
Bill
Right, right. Yeah, well, I've got a I've got mom's old bag of tools in in my trunk.

01:01:29.79
Mike
right

01:01:30.20
Bill
I put them in there when we cleaned out the house that I haven't taken amongst.

01:01:30.32
Mike
Right.

01:01:32.88
Bill
I'm like, yeah and then especially now that I'm, you know, kicking around that there's been a couple of things I needed WD 40. So i now I have that in there. And I had to buy um Allen wrenches, you know, so I put those in there.

01:01:40.14
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:01:43.49
Bill
And there's, there's things in there that I've used, you know, that I've needed.

01:01:45.82
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:46.79
Bill
So yeah, it's, again, it

01:01:47.40
Mike
Right. Yeah. So I mean, stuff like that. Right. You're not going to touch it for a long time. But when when you need it, God damn it, you better have it or you're fucked.

01:01:53.43
Bill
your and Right, that is something worth unpacking as they say.

01:01:59.41
Mike
Mm-hmm. Well, that's something worth hacking Right a That was Or did it or did it?

01:02:01.50
Bill
but the yeah Right, right, packing so it's there in case you need to unpack. Right, okay, okay, I gotcha. But now, I don't know, if that was just, said that oh that was a tangent, by the way, that had nothing to do with that had nothing to do with sobriety, so fuck all you and your, yeah, but yeah, well, you know, that's,

01:02:19.12
Mike
Having those tools in your back pocket when you need them you may not touch them for a couple years But you better fucking have it when you need it

01:02:27.06
Bill
ge Jesus Christ, we can't help but talk about sobriety. Can we we had known that that had nothing to do in my head with sobriety and it turns out that it was Apparently folks were practicing these principles and all of our affairs But yeah, so okay.

01:02:30.98
Mike
Nope. Mm-hmm. Apparently.

01:02:43.92
Bill
Yeah the tangent I was just gonna say fuck you to everyone that doesn't like to go off on tangents But that you know, I will say it completely.

01:02:46.97
Mike
these space

01:02:49.32
Bill
Fuck you because look what that did. We talked about sobriety.

01:02:50.91
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:02:51.99
Bill
Yeah, yeah

01:02:52.53
Mike
Yeah, fuck you.

01:02:53.86
Bill
yeah Fuck you other podcasts, man. You're not cool. hey guys All right. So I had, uh, you know, I'm trying to, I've got some, a couple of another, a few other things on like the, I'll call it the backlog list, but I had one thing that I, that I wrote down this week and I don't remember. Oh, two things. I'm sorry. First one, I was flipping through, I didn't even know how I came across it, but, um, this was just back from May. First of all, did you know, Conan O'Brien had a podcast?

01:03:21.13
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:03:21.98
Bill
Okay. i I think I knew that, but I didn't remember what the name of it was. I can't for the life of me even remember what it is now.

01:03:26.93
Mike
Uh, doesn't it?

01:03:28.12
Bill
I think I saved it, but Oh yeah.

01:03:29.47
Mike
Conan and pirate needs friends.

01:03:31.89
Bill
Yeah. Do you want to be my friend or something like that?

01:03:33.77
Mike
I think it's, he needs friends.

01:03:33.85
Bill
Yeah.

01:03:35.80
Mike
Conan and Brian needs friends.

01:03:35.93
Bill
Is it what it Oh, okay.

01:03:36.92
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:37.94
Bill
Yeah. That's, that sounds right. I'm going to give you that. Cause I don't know, but yes, that sounds good. So, um, the interviewed Chris Robinson, obviously for anyone who doesn't know from, from the black crows, um, that dude is funny as fuck.

01:03:50.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:51.55
Bill
I've never I've never heard an interview with him and what I expected because I know they're I mean They're kind of stoners and shit like that, right? But um but I mean he I expected like this just this laid-back whatever he was he was a lot of fun to listen to talked about the new album and also because it was when happiness bastards had just been released um But man, he was I was laughing my ass off.

01:03:59.13
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:04:12.71
Mike
Okay.

01:04:15.55
Bill
He he and Kona were having just a fucking great time. I nothing nothing earth shattering, nothing that I had to like, ooh, I gotta talk about this. I just wanted to say that I'd never heard an interview with him, but man, he was just, he was a lot of fun to listen to and I complete complete surprise.

01:04:30.19
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's entertaining dude.

01:04:34.74
Bill
Yeah. And the, the last thing and that just reminded me of, I was listening to again, some fucking podcast at some point. And, um, somebody had said, cause aren't you the one that told me that, uh, the black crows, I think they were, you said they're more notorious for always having good weed, right?

01:04:48.89
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:04:49.69
Bill
Okay. So somebody, somebody referred to that in a podcast, they were telling this story about whatever it was a celebrity podcast, I think it, whatever I, when I was listening to it, but they said, said, yeah, so-and-so this and this and like, yeah, I found, we found out that she had some of that, that black crows weed.

01:05:09.75
Bill
It was used as a reference to but basically how fucked up this person was and i'm like i'm like I remember that from when when you were you were telling me we were talking about whatever it was but uh When you met them, I think or with the fact that you did you knew them.

01:05:14.52
Mike
Nice Yeah, yeah

01:05:23.49
Bill
So Okay, so the the last thing that um that I had on here the one thing I I was uh had no idea again where it came from but pessimism through ah through sorry Pessimism versus optimism. So do you consider yourself to be more of an optimist or a pessimist?

01:05:37.50
Mike
ahha

01:05:42.01
Mike
yes true Yes Optimist optimistically pessimistic and pessimistically optimistic. Yeah. Anyway, um Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm clearly um by working the program. I am more optimistic but um yeah i'm Yeah, I'm a pessimist, you know, no that glass is fucking half empty Um, you know, but it's still got half a thing in it. So it's all right. Um, yes, I'm both.

01:06:15.89
Mike
Absolutely both. Um, I try to be optimistic. I try to look at the good and, uh, you know, despite, despite my eyes. Um, yeah.

01:06:29.99
Bill
Yeah.

01:06:31.10
Mike
right in my brain and yes um you know but then there's my soul no there isn't um there's no soul there's electrons popping around in my skull um um yeah yeah uh yes there are there's good i try to look for it um but i don't expect it so i guess i i guess that makes me a pessimist but i'm optimistic that you know maybe i'll get a little better at it tomorrow

01:07:00.91
Bill
Well, and and you know what? um I agree with you 100% saying yes. And I didn't necessarily know which way you were going to go with that.

01:07:06.61
Mike
Mm

01:07:09.11
Bill
But I think that, and we said this whatever we were talking about a couple of weeks ago, that's a perfectly acceptable answer.

01:07:12.15
Mike
hmm.

01:07:14.93
Bill
Because it's it's true. Now, the other way that I, and this one, I just i couldn't help get it out of my head when i when i started but I wrote it down or copied it down. But what I was thinking about was is that, I think my, my nature, um the way I'm built, I am, no doubt, I'm a pessimist. I know for a fact I am. And I was kind of relating it to the fact of, you know, being our, you know, the fact that sobriety, we have to work on it every day, we go back to being a shitty human being type of thing, you know,

01:07:42.12
Mike
Right. right Right.

01:07:48.60
Bill
Our natural state is being a shitty human being and being who we were and being an active alcoholic and addict.

01:07:51.34
Mike
Yup. Yup.

01:07:54.76
Bill
And I think that that um i think that lines up with, for me, with this pessimism versus I have to work at being optimistic the same.

01:07:58.84
Mike
Go

01:08:02.89
Bill
I have to i had to work at being grateful.

01:08:02.88
Mike
ahead.

01:08:04.84
Bill
I have to work at recognizing gratitude and and all those different things.

01:08:08.31
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:09.69
Bill
You know because there there are times when in I've said it before the first time I ever said it on here I'm like a couple years ago like I'm in a good fucking mood, and I don't know why you know and You know it we got a good laugh out of it even now, but um seriously It's I that that's probably the best example of knowing that in my head it's I I'm not a gloom and doom type of person, but I I need to work on being um positive.

01:08:19.10
Mike
Right.

01:08:33.75
Mike
Right.

01:08:37.44
Bill
I need to work on, again, being in a good mood. I need to work on um everything is not unicorns and strawberries strawberries and orgasms, and I fucking know that.

01:08:44.10
Mike
Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:08:47.75
Bill
and I think that before I got sober, I was in a bad mood all the time because I was just i had no way to deal with my emotions and all that sort of stuff.

01:08:54.92
Mike
Right, miserable a real human being, right.

01:08:55.89
Bill
and i think yeah Right, but I think now from what what you said even halfway jokingly because your eyes and your brain and everything like that Now that now that we're sober, I think I don't know for me at least I think I fucking it know better I know that there's evil fucking people.

01:09:03.23
Mike
Mm.

01:09:10.28
Mike
Right.

01:09:12.06
Bill
There's some shitty people. There's some fucking dumbasses out there in and in you and not you and I but we as a collective, you know, whatever we We have to try really hard

01:09:15.06
Mike
ah

01:09:22.82
Mike
Right.

01:09:23.26
Bill
to get through some of the garbage in this world and be good and enjoy good and and try to make our corner of the world a ah better place.

01:09:31.55
Mike
right

01:09:31.80
Bill
And I think that's where, um like you said, when we're joking about the whole, you know, Cleveland and Detroit, you know, be the unhappiest places.

01:09:38.13
Mike
you

01:09:39.44
Bill
And you're like, maybe that's because people know what the fuck they're dealing with, you know.

01:09:42.32
Mike
Yup Ignorance is bliss exactly Right Yeah

01:09:44.43
Bill
And

01:09:47.71
Bill
Yeah, and i' it seriously, it's just that i I consider myself to be relatively upbeat. I'm a positive person. The person I am on this podcast, is not it's it's not um it's not fake. you know um If I'm, if i'm you know i mean granted, we're i so I suppose we're trying to entertain people a little bit. and be It would be shitty if we got, I mean, could you imagine if we get on here? Oh, hey, Mike.

01:10:11.73
Mike
Hey, Bill Yeah, me too, fuck My shoulder hurts, I'm tired, I'm constipated

01:10:12.86
Bill
I'm having a rough one today, man. just

01:10:18.74
Bill
I mean, first of all, it's just, I, I don't, yeah you know what, you know, it does hurt my left pinky for some reason. Like I pulled, like I pulled a muscle. yeah yeah no shit in my left pinky for some reason i like i pull the fucking muscle i mean that's okay kids out there especially if you're in your 20s and 30s that's what 55 looks like i didn't do anything i work literally i work behind a desk and i i pulled a muscle in my pinky

01:10:38.64
Mike
please

01:10:45.35
Mike
Right.

01:10:49.74
Mike
Right.

01:10:50.30
Bill
ye But um, but no, I just seriously, I think that I think that I'm, I'm just naturally a pessimistic person and I need to work to be optimistic just as I'm, I'm naturally a a piece of fucking shit, alcoholic, low bottom drunk.

01:10:55.36
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:03.60
Bill
And I need, I need to work every day to be sober and stay sober.

01:11:03.63
Mike
Yep. Yep.

01:11:06.63
Bill
So, you know, I think I'm looking at that the right way.

01:11:06.78
Mike
Yeah. yeah I believe you are, because that's the way I'm fucking looking at it.

01:11:11.02
Bill
yeah

01:11:14.48
Bill
the

01:11:22.04
Mike
you right

01:11:28.29
Mike
right

01:11:35.56
Bill
and I snap at somebody I'm gonna apologize and I'm gonna explain that hey I don't know what the fuck's going on but I'm in a fucking mood for whatever reason um you know just sorry I'm gonna go to bed you know or I'm just gonna I don't know I'm gonna go do something I'm gonna go watch TV I'm just ah whatever the case is but

01:11:42.33
Mike
Right.

01:11:45.96
Mike
Right.

01:11:52.51
Bill
but yeah i mean i don't want to be that way because i don't want to i don't want to feel like shit um and if i'm in a if i'm in a ah mood i don't necessarily need to figure it out but i need to figure out what can i do that'll actually just if nothing else fucking even me out you know

01:11:56.26
Mike
right

01:12:06.28
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah. that Fucking make myself stop. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm in a mood. Well, it's a, it all comes back to those fucking snakes, man.

01:12:14.09
Bill
and

01:12:14.20
Mike
You know, I'm in a mood, you know, I, I feel like shit. I'm crumpy. I'm whatever way to trust me. I am a lot, um, you know, but so what again, so what my fucking mood doesn't matter and my mood's going to change.

01:12:21.72
Bill
yeah

01:12:30.45
Mike
So, you know, uh, Right. The old days, I would nurture that and and again, use it as an excuse and oh, I had a bad day. I'm grumpy. I'm going to go get loaded, um, to make myself feel better and fuck the rest of you people. You know, I don't, I don't care if you, you know, if my mood's affecting you with good, I hope it is.

01:12:45.72
Bill
Right.

01:12:50.16
Mike
Fuck you. Um, yeah, right. And now I'm, and now I, I'm really, I, hey You know, I don't. Yes, I will be grumpy. I will be in a bad mood. But i I try not to take it out on other people, which is a huge fucking difference because I I relished taking out my awful moods on other people.

01:13:06.56
Bill
Thank God, yeah.

01:13:11.01
Mike
I love that shit. It didn't really make me feel any better. It just it was just, you know, whatever. It was just what I did because I was a piece of shit. And, uh, yeah, so I try not to inflict that on other people. I mean, you know, it seeps in and I'm human and, you know, sometimes I'm just in a really fucking bad mood and I can't help myself. Um, but even then, um, I try not to, even in the midst of being a grumpy old man that I am, um, I do try not to inflict that on other people. It happens occasionally. And then I got to apologize and I hate that shit too. So.

01:13:47.60
Mike
ah Again selfish, that's why I try not to do it. So I don't have to fucking apologize Right

01:13:51.06
Bill
right? Yeah, it's just, um i and I know, I know what you mean, because ah in relishing in that I, I know I did too, you know, I absolutely I, I used to love, you know, you just, you know, basically tearing people down verbally, you know, it was a, it was a wonderful experience in my head, you know, to be able to do that, because, you know, then you feel you feel like you're a big man, and all this stuff, and all you are is, you know, you're fucking coward, you know, by,

01:14:17.22
Mike
right

01:14:17.64
Bill
I do it all that shit, but um I mean, especially, you know, when it's the somebody you truly love, like a spouse or a child or, you know, whatever the case is, you know, and then, you know, again, you know, it it just all it does is just put barriers and causes, you know, I don't I, I'm not going to use the word, but, you know, it just it can cause issues for years, you know, between between two people.

01:14:23.67
Mike
Right.

01:14:37.16
Bill
And it's it's unnecessary just for just for having ah a shitty attitude and being a shitty person for a minute, you know.

01:14:42.97
Mike
Right.

01:14:44.66
Bill
So, okay, one one last thing, and I almost forgot about this. This has nothing to do with sobriety, okay?

01:14:49.53
Mike
All right.

01:14:49.90
Bill
So, um this is, again, well the morning show that I listened to, say they this, and then they were they were reading it. They said, okay, top 25 most overplayed rock and metal songs of all time, okay?

01:15:04.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:05.21
Bill
And I'm like, first of all, they they didn't read the entire list. I think they did the top 10, but I'm gonna do i'm gonna tell you the top five.

01:15:12.40
Mike
Uh

01:15:12.88
Bill
I think that there's one song on here that I know you fucking hate I know you hate the band.

01:15:16.56
Mike
-huh.

01:15:17.49
Bill
Um one i've got a pretty good idea.

01:15:17.72
Mike
Alright.

01:15:19.72
Bill
You're not a fan the other three i'm not sure of but so, um Number five on the list like once again, this is the top 25 most overplayed rock songs.

01:15:22.89
Mike
all right

01:15:26.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:31.68
Bill
Okay number five bon jovi living on a prayer

01:15:34.71
Mike
me have

01:15:37.79
Bill
yeah ah get that's the one i know you hate that's the one i know you hate

01:15:40.40
Mike
Right now the garbage they always have been they always will be go ahead ah but Definitely not their best work Skittered was a great band, but yeah but overplayed right free bird all that they've got some great fucking songs in there But yeah overplayed man

01:15:42.02
Bill
um

01:15:45.61
Bill
leonard skinner sweet home alabama

01:15:59.95
Bill
Right. And that's what um I, I wasn't sure. I don't think you and I have ever talked about Leonard Skinner. And I, I mean, again, as a, bit I agree with you, Sweet Home, Alabama, Freebird, all those songs, if they, they come on the radar, just they overplayed. I wouldn't listen to it, but there's some of their, i've I've listened to their other albums.

01:16:11.88
Mike
just

01:16:14.68
Bill
I like, again, you know, the deep tracks I like from, from them.

01:16:17.44
Mike
Yup.

01:16:17.94
Bill
So um Metallica, Enter Sandman.

01:16:21.33
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:22.52
Bill
Overplayed, right?

01:16:23.40
Mike
Overplayed. Right. You know, the first three albums are the only good ones.

01:16:28.02
Bill
yeah Number two, Nirvana smells like teen spirit.

01:16:32.21
Mike
Yes. Overplayed.

01:16:34.18
Bill
Okay. And see that one, I, I agree 100% that it's overplayed. I like the song. I never get, I don't get sick of Nirvana. Um, you know, so it just, it's one of those that I've never, I've never gotten tired of, but I agree.

01:16:40.93
Mike
you

01:16:45.27
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:46.10
Bill
You know, it's, it is, it's a, um, like they put it, the, the description here. Yeah, we get it. Grunge cream came at the exact right time to save all of us, blahb blah, blah, blah.

01:16:53.38
Mike
Right.

01:16:54.90
Bill
But, um, but yeah, i I get it. I understand that.

01:16:57.54
Mike
Is that

01:16:58.10
Bill
So number one, have any, even guess the band of the overplayed. Overplayed number one No, actually guns and roses sweet child sweet child of mine Which again, you know both of those guys can't that make sense because it it is it's one of those ones where I mean I've guns and roses or guns and roses.

01:17:05.32
Mike
one?

01:17:08.54
Mike
Ah, back. isn

01:17:19.81
Bill
I mean, I liked them at the time and they to to this day I mean, they're not necessarily one of my you know, top favorite type of bands, but um, I mean, yeah that song got fucking played to fucking death

01:17:20.47
Mike
Yes. Right.

01:17:31.65
Bill
All right, so that was it. Just to just to end on on a lighter note, because I thought that was interesting. But yeah, I was surprised that I didn't i didn't look at what the other the other ones were. But I'm sure i'm sure zeppelin's Zeppelin's got to be in there.

01:17:43.80
Mike
Oh, I'm sure.

01:17:44.75
Bill
It's Stairway.

01:17:45.10
Mike
Right.

01:17:47.69
Bill
I'm guessing that's one of them. So you know what? On that note yet, I think we've overplayed ourselves tonight. yeah

01:17:54.48
Mike
I'm dead.

01:17:55.60
Bill
yeah

01:17:58.52
Mike
God.

01:18:01.32
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah. I'm fired.

01:18:02.85
Bill
yeah

01:18:03.28
Mike
It's been a long fucking week. Let's finish this shit up.

01:18:06.60
Bill
I crack me up, so yeah, it's it's your turn.

01:18:09.38
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober not mature. There's always be kind to each other. We get to each other and go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week. And don't tell anybody you fucking did it. Now it's time. It's time kids it is that time for you to fuck off then keep fucking off Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here Climb over that gate dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever Yeah, I pulled it out of my ass and now I'm done The last little bit of energy I gave to you people.

01:18:42.92
Bill
said with some force at the end. I like that. I like that a lot.

01:18:49.72
Bill
I can't

01:18:52.75
Mike
I hope you appreciate it

01:18:54.94
Bill
to you people.

01:18:56.34
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:57.04
Bill
Yeah, we we start off the podcast by begging them to share us. And then we're like, oh, obviously, yeah, you people, you better yeah better appreciate us.

01:19:05.92
Mike
That's right.

01:19:07.60
Bill
ah All right, so that's it. All right, brother, I love you.

01:19:10.92
Mike
I love you too.

01:19:12.49
Bill
And I'm sure we'll talk soon and bye.

01:19:14.07
Mike
Absolutely. bye