SoberNotMature - Episode 133 (Making New Friends On The Road)

00:00:01.92
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature and um i i can't believe it's recording night again you know i mean it's uh this this past well again i said it last last week but uh time seems to be flying by but this week especially i was just like god damn it's fucking

00:00:10.21
Mike
I know.

00:00:22.19
Bill
ah We're recording on a Thursday again. We'll get to that in a minute.

00:00:24.24
Mike
ah hu Right.

00:00:24.63
Bill
Not that it really matters, but I do want to hear about your weekend, so I guess it matters a little bit. um But yeah, so it's ah it's another Thursday night next week.

00:00:32.65
Mike
Mm

00:00:33.66
Bill
Just to remind everyone, Dr. Sarah is scheduled to come on again next week, so she's got her headset.

00:00:36.83
Mike
-hm.

00:00:39.30
Mike
a

00:00:40.23
Bill
So yeah, we should be all all good to go with her. but So first of all, let's let's start off with but our with our guessing game of how many fucks did we give last week. Are you ready, Mike?

00:00:49.45
Mike
I'm sure. Yeah.

00:00:50.97
Bill
OK.

00:00:51.05
Mike
Why not? All right. Oh, let's see. Last week. Let me think. um God, I can't remember anything. oh but ah

00:01:02.20
Mike
Let's go 142.

00:01:05.25
Bill
Higher, one. ah i'm not I'll give you one more guess. It's higher though.

00:01:09.70
Mike
it's higher ah All right Bob, let's see if I guess without going over um 172 Don't

00:01:19.31
Bill
Yeah, it's close. 185 again, which is what yeah which is what we had a couple of weeks.

00:01:21.75
Mike
shit Hmm

00:01:24.32
Bill
Well, probably, if I don't know, whatever it was the last time that I looked at it. But same thing. you know i'm doing the When I do the the transcript, I got to put it into a Word document. Riverside, I used to be able to count it within the um but actually within the studio.

00:01:37.30
Bill
Not that it matters. You could do a word count in Word. So that's what I do when I looked. And I'm like, really?

00:01:40.91
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:01:43.01
Bill
100? It doesn't seem like we're saying it that much. and

00:01:46.93
Mike
Right?

00:01:47.69
Bill
you know when we're talking and I listen to the episode and I don't think about it or I don't listen to it in the low, Jesus Christ, we're swearing a lot.

00:01:55.71
Mike
Right?

00:01:55.87
Bill
you know so But once again, i mean neither one of us, I don't think, I know I don't and I don't think you do either. you know We don't do it you know just for the sake of, you know just just for the fuck of it.

00:02:04.53
Mike
No. Right. Exactly.

00:02:07.44
Bill
yeah

00:02:07.52
Mike
It's not shock value or anything.

00:02:09.58
Bill
Right.

00:02:09.69
Mike
I mean, occasionally I will, I will interject one when I'm trying to make a point. Um, I'll be conscious of that, but generally it's just a fuck whatever comes out of my mouth.

00:02:19.29
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So, and it's it's kind of amazing sometimes that, cause I'm on, I'm not on a ton of, you know, like meetings or anything like that, but for the ones that I'm honored I'm talking, um it's it's shocking to me.

00:02:30.38
Bill
And like when you were on the radio, you know, I mean, you know, it's kind of shocking when, I don't know, we do have the ability to not swear, but um I don't know.

00:02:31.88
Mike
Right.

00:02:37.65
Mike
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, of course Exactly and that's what we try to we strive for in this podcast is to just be our fucking selves Mm

00:02:41.81
Bill
It's just, it's heat it's so fucking natural. yeah

00:02:52.55
Bill
Exactly. So um yeah, I mean, obviously, I want to hear about the the weekend coming up. We want to talk about like to talk about the radio gig kind of a wrap up on that.

00:03:01.13
Mike
-hmm

00:03:01.97
Bill
The thing are, you know, I mean, obviously, we'd like to probably get the reading out of the way. I got some other little notes. We got our Google results, our console results, got a couple other things. But yeah, I don't know if you're if you're ready.

00:03:12.83
Bill
Let's do a fucking reading there that that I did that.

00:03:15.04
Mike
ah right

00:03:15.93
Bill
I did that one on purpose.

00:03:18.16
Mike
Alright Alright This is from a couple days ago. I read it in the morning and went that's pretty damn good What I think I'll use it on the old podcast. So here we go September 3rd is from God grant me as usual um But I do like to point it out cuz occasionally I will read from something else Anyway, this is God grant me. This is September 3rd and here we go Tenderness and kindness are not signs of weakness and despair, but manifestations of strength and resolution. Cahill Gibran, apparently he was a poet and philosopher dude at the beginning of last century. All right.

00:03:59.90
Mike
Somehow our society's ideas about strength got turned around. We seem to think that the mean people are the strong ones. We give power to people who act in ways that are rude or even cruel. Many of us used to play by those rules. We were afraid. So we acted mean, rude, tough, or cool to keep people away from us. We tried to make other people more scared of us than we were of them.

00:04:27.32
Mike
Now in recovery, we are learning that it is kind people who are the strong ones. It's not easy to be kind when others are mean. ah It's not easy to be kind when we are in pain or afraid. It's not easy to think about others instead of ourselves when we are tired or frustrated with problems of our own.

00:04:48.05
Mike
But we are learning to do these things, and we are becoming strong enough to do them. We are not ruled by our feelings anymore. We can choose to be kind and tender. Prayer for the day.

00:05:01.87
Mike
Higher power, help me to remember that all true strength and power come from you. Give me grace today to be strong, kind and tender. Today's action. Today I will think about the tugs of frustration, anger and fear I've felt over the past 24 hours. What did I do with these feelings? I will talk with my sponsor about how these are good times to let go and let God.

00:05:27.93
Bill
hey Okay, so um let's start with that with that action. What was it, the the last 24 hours, the ah the pains or fears, or what was it?

00:05:35.81
Mike
Yeah, we'll think about the tugs of frustration, anger, and fear that we felt over the past 24 hours.

00:05:41.61
Bill
Okay, so um I don't know, let's start there. Did you have i mean do you have any of that anger, frustration, fears, anything like that over the last 24?

00:05:50.72
Mike
yeah Well, plenty of frustration because I'm out on the roads all day, um

00:05:56.98
Bill
ah

00:05:57.32
Mike
which gives way to a little bit of anger um and um fears. um yeah No, not really. No, not a whole lot of fear going on my life these days. um Yes, the frustrations and the mild anger. um And what did I do with them? ah I allowed them to happen and didn't dwell on them and moved on because that falls into the category of things that I cannot control.

00:06:29.16
Bill
yeah Let them whirl, right, I think is the but saying?

00:06:31.27
Mike
Exactly.

00:06:33.07
Bill
Yeah, and you know what, the again, the frustrations and stuff like that, probably same deal, you know, comes from his work items with me, you know? And, you know, the beginning of the month, I mean, again, things start off, to me, kind of in the right way.

00:06:45.98
Bill
I mean, I came in to to work on on Tuesday and, you know, I mean, we so obviously, new month, everything starts over anyhow, but a lot of times, especially over a weekend, you know, a couple of payments come in, even if they're small,

00:06:53.61
Mike
right.

00:06:58.53
Bill
and I pull out my dashboard, log in when I first logged in, and it's just fucking zeros. I mean, nothing.

00:07:04.11
Mike
Ha ha ha ha ha.

00:07:04.33
Bill
And I'm like, like how the fuck can that even happen?

00:07:06.63
Mike
Mm.

00:07:07.37
Bill
So nobody came in like end of the month and last day of the month on a Saturday, um which could have gotten posted the last month. Nothing came in for the beginning of the month. And I'm just like, how in how did that even happen?

00:07:19.00
Bill
you know Um, you know, but then I'm thinking to myself, you know, kind of what I did with that is that, okay, that means I, I did what I was supposed to do. I had everything done in set because we're not, so but not that we're not supposed to have payments due for the first of the month, but you try to get everything just, you know, kind of squeeze everything out at the end of the month and start over.

00:07:28.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:34.39
Mike
Right.

00:07:38.59
Bill
That's, that's the way that it should be.

00:07:39.19
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:07:40.49
Bill
you know but But again, a couple of slow days. Today was a good day. I kind of made up for it, got a couple other things. It's kind of working back in into its way. But you know again, what the the fear part of it for me, from a work standpoint, is when I when i look at that stuff, it's it's the frustration.

00:07:55.76
Bill
Again, a little bit of anger.

00:07:55.73
Mike
Mm.

00:07:57.73
Bill
um But I'm doing everything that I need to do. I keep doing all that stuff. you know But that still the same thing. The fear part is the money part. you know um

00:08:04.41
Mike
Of course.

00:08:05.74
Bill
I mean, a little bit less money last month, you know, obviously it it kind of, some of this stuff kind of affects what I want to do. More money I make, the more opportunity I have to to kick around and blah, blah, blah. But um the thing of it is, is that, I don't know.

00:08:19.20
Bill
I mean, that's I'm not going to go broke. I mean, I run tight on money, but that's that's literally, I have to sit back and tell myself, listen, you motherfucker, this is what you, this is your plan.

00:08:23.91
Mike
Right.

00:08:30.00
Bill
Your plan is to make money and spend it going out doing shit, you know?

00:08:29.99
Mike
right

00:08:33.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:08:34.40
Bill
I have I have no desire to I don't want to there's nothing else that I want to quote unquote invest my money in I want to do these things you know and it's not a yeah and it's not extravagant or anything like that um I need to be mindful but all that stuff but so that's where my fear part comes in but to your point you know I come back to it like like I said before is first of all

00:08:39.82
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right experiences.

00:08:56.65
Bill
the people places and things I can't make people pick up the phone I can't make people pay technically I can work with people and talk to people and do what I do um you know but all that I can do is keep doing everything that I need to do every single day I had a yeah a meeting with my boss today what's called a side-by-side he listens while I'm on the phone share screen the whole bit and you know the only thing that he keeps telling me is that

00:08:59.73
Mike
Right.

00:09:20.15
Bill
He goes, you know, add a little bit more urgency, a little more assertiveness. He goes, I'm not trying to change what you do. I'm not trying to make you reinvent yourself or anything like that.

00:09:25.88
Mike
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

00:09:27.52
Bill
He goes, just trying to tweak these couple of things. And he keeps talking about me, you know, growing and moving to the next level and all that sort of things.

00:09:34.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:35.35
Bill
So he said to me, this is kind of funny. He's like, so do you ever feel like when you get off the phone that you could have been more assertive or maybe your tone could have been a little bit differently? I'm like, well, you tell me endlessly than it can so i'm like i'm like i i believe you and he starts laughing he's like he's like yeah and i didn't say it just disrespectfully but i'm like i don't i need to be guided that's fine i have no problem with it but yeah i'm just like well you can tell me that i have to do these things so i guess i do right

00:09:50.66
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm. Right.

00:10:05.65
Mike
right

00:10:05.91
Bill
But um I don't know that the main thing is what this whole reading, the things that I wrote down, obviously, the beginning, you know, tenderness and kindness equals strength, power to um power to rude people, I'll come back to that one.

00:10:19.08
Bill
um Acting tough or cool, um in pain and afraid and then not ruled by our feelings, which we talk about all the time, right?

00:10:25.48
Mike
Right. Right.

00:10:25.93
Bill
um Not being ruled by our feelings, I think is kind of the I don't want to say our, our motto, but kind of a backbone of what we try to do, right?

00:10:32.90
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, um, early on, you know, I, I heard that from, uh, from Dolly, um, you know, she has a very nice way of saying it.

00:10:43.27
Mike
We're no longer emotionally driven. We're spiritually driven, which is just a very nice way of saying, fuck your feelings, do what's right.

00:10:46.88
Bill
Right.

00:10:51.26
Bill
Right.

00:10:53.90
Bill
Right, which i and that's what I thought about when i said not rule by or when I wrote down that rule by our feelings. i Think about it, because you said that a number of times in Credited Dolly to that, and it it's important, I believe i believe in that.

00:10:59.48
Mike
Right. right Mm hmm. Yep.

00:11:05.64
Bill
um But the that entire reading as you were as you were talking about it, it made me think about it. The same thing that, and and I think it was a... I don't know if I want to, well, let's call it a revelation for me.

00:11:15.23
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:17.43
Bill
um I didn't realize, never really looked at the fact until we started doing this. So maybe, again, in the last two years ago when it was first being brought up, even though we were told over and over again, um but that all of my my issues are based in fear.

00:11:33.75
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:33.82
Bill
And it doesn't matter what it is. I can look at it. I'm like, God, is that fear based? I'm like, even if I have to stretch out my thought a little bit, I can find the fear in in all of it, which is, again, mind blowing to me, but in in a really good way, you know.

00:11:40.66
Mike
Sure. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah, ah exactly. i mean exactly yeah I mean, all of our all of our bad behaviors are rooted in fear, because we're afraid of something or other.

00:11:58.32
Mike
Yeah, and it actually, it makes it makes kind of easier to identify them and then work on the problem, because, yeah. and And thanks to this program and, of course, doing the next great thing and all that good stuff, um you know that fear gets lessened.

00:12:12.40
Mike
you know I'm not afraid of of things like I used to be.

00:12:12.84
Bill
Right.

00:12:15.53
Mike
I used to be fucking scared to death and everything. Yeah. Um, scared death of not being able to get to that next drink.

00:12:21.79
Bill
Right.

00:12:21.76
Mike
Um, yeah. So, um, yeah, exactly. I mean, it simplifies things a lot, you know, try to, who is it? Because no, it's because I'm a fucking frayed man, you know, cause I can't control shit and then it's, it's out of my hands and it scares me.

00:12:39.06
Bill
Right.

00:12:39.08
Mike
Yeah, okay. So, it's out of your fucking hands, you can't control it. Good. yeah Why does that scare you, asshole?

00:12:47.44
Bill
Right.

00:12:47.43
Mike
Because you're so fucking important that you need to control everything? Oh yeah, that's right, I'm not. Fuck, okay, well I guess so yes I shouldn't be so afraid of it because there's nothing I can goddamn do anyway. Just be confident in myself, and again, that whole goddamn do the next right thing, shit over and over.

00:12:58.07
Bill
Right.

00:13:03.91
Mike
As long as you're doing that, then the rest of it doesn't fucking matter.

00:13:08.42
Bill
Right. Yeah, and it's, so I mean, literally the, you know, again, kind of the the backbone of of everything that we, you know, that we are, um you know, we're control freaks, you know, I mean, by by nature, you know, and it it it is it's, it's really that was the hardest.

00:13:18.54
Mike
Of course.

00:13:23.39
Bill
And I know I've gone back to the whole iPhone, you know, story I told a long time ago, which is I'm not going to repeat, but the whole point is, is that I experienced a situation very early on that I felt I was trying to force and realize that, thankfully, there was something in me that's like, hey for whatever reason, um this this shouldn't happen.

00:13:42.59
Mike
seems Right.

00:13:44.98
Bill
you know um And I don't know why, you know but i but I can't i can push it. you know and I think there's so many things on it whether it's a daily basis or at least a weekly or monthly basis of things that come up in my life and you know just kind of like yeah you get that weird um weird feeling and I'm like well I don't know why I'm feeling this way but something's not right so maybe I shouldn't do that it's nothing bad you know that I'm doing but for whatever reason it's like okay don't don't turn down this road or don't make this decision or

00:13:59.62
Mike
Hmm. Right. right Right.

00:14:16.29
Bill
um don't make this decision without, you know, looking at all the facts, putting shit down on paper and and all those sort of things.

00:14:23.10
Mike
Yep.

00:14:23.22
Bill
Good example, when I was talking about going to Arkansas, you know, I had this, I had this plan in my head and the the thing of it is, and there's the,

00:14:25.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:14:31.34
Bill
that app that I use to kind of like charge stuff and kind of finance things on the side, I'm down to the last few trips that i've that I've made, like this one is paid for already, all three weeks are paid for, because the one that I booked it, I had to pay it off over, or I didn't have to, but I paid it off over um one payment the day I booked it, and then three payments over six weeks.

00:14:34.09
Mike
Mm hmm. Right, right.

00:14:53.09
Bill
And then the final week that I booked here, um I think, because it was last minute, didn't give me the option, I just paid for it, you know, um which I never do.

00:14:59.11
Mike
Right.

00:15:01.60
Bill
So by my monthly, I guess, payments for this side thing are relatively low for the next couple of months as it sits.

00:15:05.20
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:15:09.23
Bill
So I'm looking at that, I'm like, oh, I'm in great, great fucking shape, you know, X number of dollars, that I could do this.

00:15:09.26
Mike
Right.

00:15:11.98
Mike
Hehehe. Uh-huh.

00:15:14.04
Bill
But the problem is, is I hadn't looked at

00:15:16.92
Mike
Hehehe.

00:15:17.08
Bill
the fact that i I paid for this last week, um basically in cash, which I, not that I never do, but I don't have to do.

00:15:22.54
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:15:25.03
Bill
um And you know some other things of whatever and a little bit less money made last month. And so I was gonna book that Arkansas trip and I'm like, yeah, let let me just sit down and figure shit out.

00:15:33.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:15:33.80
Bill
And I sat down, I'm like, I can do it, you know but um I would be sweating for two weeks.

00:15:36.36
Mike
Right.

00:15:39.25
Bill
you know And I'm like, I don't need to do that.

00:15:39.84
Mike
Yeah. Why?

00:15:42.17
Bill
ah Yeah, I don't need to do that.

00:15:42.48
Mike
Right. Exactly.

00:15:44.05
Bill
i'm gonna i'm gonna go I'm gonna go back to Indiana, I'm gonna chill for a little bit. And because then I started thinking about it, I'm like, okay, so obviously Cleveland, I'll be at the end of the month.

00:15:47.70
Mike
sir

00:15:52.38
Bill
And and I really wanna go, I wanna go someplace in October, whether it's for two weeks or three weeks or this and that.

00:15:52.37
Mike
Right. Yeah. yeah

00:15:58.41
Bill
um And I'm like, okay, I can i can go chill, you know go back to Indiana and chill out. um But the thing of it is, had I booked it, I would have been not fucked, but close to fucked. you know

00:16:08.05
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:16:09.22
Bill
it

00:16:09.32
Mike
Which kind of defeats the purpose of this whole thing.

00:16:11.84
Bill
Yeah. And it would have been, I just, I would have been sitting in the middle of fucking Arkansas in this cool place and running around, do whatever, but then worried about, you know, do I want to spend the gas money to go here and go there?

00:16:16.89
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:16:22.77
Mike
Exactly. Yeah. as what Right. Cause yourself undue concern over fucking trying to have fun.

00:16:30.26
Bill
Right.

00:16:30.27
Mike
That's yeah. Why?

00:16:32.90
Bill
Yeah, it's you're right. I mean, you know when you say it out loud, it's like, Jesus, that's that's stupid.

00:16:36.41
Mike
Great.

00:16:37.42
Bill
you know But but that that was literally almost what I did.

00:16:37.52
Mike
All right.

00:16:41.32
Bill
you know um But like I said, it just that it was it was things that I had this, um the point was is it felt, I'm like, God, should I do it?

00:16:41.42
Mike
ah sir Of course.

00:16:49.67
Bill
Then I'm like, oh, let me just get shit down on paper first. And I did, I had that minor pause and then you know thought about it like, yeah, yeah i but I can't do this right now.

00:16:53.57
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:16:58.66
Bill
It's just not gonna work.

00:16:58.92
Mike
Right.

00:16:59.42
Bill
you know

00:16:59.91
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:17:00.81
Bill
So I don't know, it just it it's kind of funny. But now going back to the to the reading, though, the the, you know, talking about like society and and everyone, not everyone, but people giving power to rude people.

00:17:04.35
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:10.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:17:12.39
Bill
And then, you know, folks like us acting tough or cool, you know, to try to, again, you know, hey, we're we're bad at this, you can't hurt me because I'm I'm tough or I'm cool.

00:17:15.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:19.82
Mike
Right. Yeah, right.

00:17:21.41
Bill
um Right, right.

00:17:21.65
Mike
You know, just pushing people away for that. Right. Yeah, exactly.

00:17:26.01
Bill
But

00:17:26.60
Mike
but and And why? Why would I want to push people away? Well, I mean, you know, I do. But ah but yeah, but not in that way anymore.

00:17:32.81
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:17:36.44
Mike
it's yeah Again, another byproduct of doing this thing and and and being kind and being decent is yeah you push the assholes away because they don't want to be around that um because it's showing what assholes they are.

00:17:49.77
Mike
It's even more of a glaring example of what an asshole is if you're standing next to him being nice.

00:17:55.51
Bill
Right.

00:17:56.17
Mike
Yeah, you know, so if and so they they tend to weed themselves out, which is quite lovely.

00:17:56.56
Bill
Yeah.

00:18:02.78
Bill
Yeah, it just, ah you know, that that the glitch gets fixed on its own, like they say in Office Face, you know, we we fixed the glitch, that's all it is, you know, we but a we fixed the glitch just by being nice people, but but it is true.

00:18:07.97
Mike
Mm hmm. Exactly.

00:18:15.21
Bill
And I think less maybe these days, because so many people, I just think people these days are are more afraid of of saying anything or doing anything to offend people, which I get, there's nothing wrong with them, not trying to to make fun of that sort of thing, but,

00:18:24.48
Mike
Mm. Mm-hmm. Right.

00:18:30.45
Bill
They're still, when you look at you know the news and maybe some of the leaders in this country, you know, fucking politicians, you know, and, you know, again, this, there they're some of the most powerful people in the country for no reason other than because everyone in society has placed them there.

00:18:34.04
Mike
Mm.

00:18:37.99
Mike
Aha.

00:18:46.42
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:18:47.69
Bill
Why is a politician so fucking powerful? I mean, they're not, you know, as an individual, they're not, as a group maybe, but even as a group, there's other groups that could fuck with them.

00:18:50.12
Mike
Eh. Alright.

00:18:56.18
Bill
I mean, it just, it doesn't, I don't know.

00:18:57.41
Mike
Mm.

00:18:58.00
Bill
I just don't get it, you know, um again power to rude people it is thankfully i think lessened over the years but it's still there it's fucking glaring it's just glaring out there you think okay yeah yeah that's true

00:19:03.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:07.40
Mike
yeah i I don't know if it's lessened at all. I think it's getting worse, but oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, glorifying assholes, you know, it's, it's all over the place.

00:19:18.77
Mike
I mean, I don't participate in it. I don't watch it. I don't consume any of that nonsense, but it's out there and it's, yeah, you know, yeah, it goes real dick, man.

00:19:29.61
Mike
I want to be like him.

00:19:31.40
Bill
yeah

00:19:31.41
Mike
Okay. Good. Go do that over there, please.

00:19:35.24
Bill
Right. Yeah, that just did. but But the same thing, too. And I and i think back on it when, you know again, the reading talking about us acting tough or trying to be a certain way, whether it whether you want to label it you know tough or cool or whatever, you know putting on this, basically living this facade and this lie um you know that, I don't know.

00:19:45.78
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:19:52.56
Mike
Right.

00:19:55.12
Bill
i mean you know So people either either think we're we're fine or, so like you said, stay away from us or whatever the case is.

00:20:00.97
Mike
right

00:20:01.73
Bill
um But the same thing is, you know i basically what it comes down to, the next thing I wrote down is, all those things we were doing because we were in pain and we were afraid, you know?

00:20:10.52
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, plus, I mean, you know, i yeah if you folks have looked at pictures of us, oh I, you know, I can maybe look a little scary. Bill's talked about, you know, the first time he saw me at the Keating Center, he's fucking no God. That guy's going to kill me.

00:20:29.70
Mike
Um, you know, and I mean, I rounded out and softened a little bit over the years, but I'm still, you know, whatever all my jewelry and my, you know, black death horror t-shirts and whatever.

00:20:42.19
Mike
Um, you know, but that being said, I think, um, when I am kind and I'm nice and I'm polite and all that wonderful stuff that we're supposed to be doing, um, I think it has more impact, you know, and it certainly, Again, I you know, I like to shock people.

00:20:57.97
Mike
I now I like to do it that way kill him with kindness man You know, oh shit.

00:21:00.36
Bill
Right.

00:21:03.00
Mike
This guy's walking up to my counter or whatever, you know, oh god, what's what's gonna happen? and You know, I walk up. Hi, how you doing? How's your day going blah blah? Fuck that's plenty shocking.

00:21:14.31
Mike
I love that Yeah

00:21:16.27
Bill
Yeah, and you know what's funny is the the memories just came up. It was eight years ago when you were up in Wisconsin for the Lita Ford thing and the Harley thing and blah, blah, blah.

00:21:24.55
Mike
Yep. Right.

00:21:25.90
Bill
And um I'm going to tell the story again because I think it was fucking hilarious. And it just reminded me because of what you were talking about. So I lived in an apartment building that was actually it was set up more like condos you know from the front where you went into it.

00:21:34.11
Mike
if

00:21:37.80
Mike
Right.

00:21:39.51
Bill
So there was a garage. It was attached to the building. It didn't go into my apartment. but um because I lived on the second floor, but still you pull in and there's this whole line, you know, of buildings in all different garages.

00:21:50.41
Bill
So, you know, it's Labor Day weekend and, you know, Mike was there and we were kicking around doing something and we're pulling back into the driveway and pull it up to my garage.

00:21:57.88
Mike
Right.

00:21:58.55
Bill
And there's a, I don't know what, three, four of my neighbors, I think, standing outside.

00:22:01.94
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:22:03.48
Bill
And as we're pulling in, you know they're just like looking at us. And I'm literally out loud, I said, I'm like, what the fuck are what the fuck are you looking at type of thing?

00:22:08.04
Mike
Uh-huh, uh-huh, right.

00:22:10.72
Bill
Not to them, but in the car. And then Mike mike just says, me. And I'm like, oh, yeah.

00:22:14.69
Mike
Right.

00:22:17.28
Bill
I kind of looked over at him like, oh, okay, well, that makes more sense. you know I forgot who was in the fucking car with me. but Because I don't think about it.

00:22:23.41
Mike
Right.

00:22:26.62
Bill
I mean, people used to make fun of us when but we hung out and whenever we were together.

00:22:26.90
Mike
right

00:22:30.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:30.69
Bill
and And I'm sure we look, you know, maybe it it looks ridiculously odd to this day, probably, but I mean, who, I don't know.

00:22:36.45
Mike
Probably. wait Yeah, right.

00:22:38.65
Bill
I don't, I don't.

00:22:39.50
Mike
We don't even think about it anymore.

00:22:42.08
Bill
Right. Yeah, exactly. But, uh, I don't know. Yeah. It just turns out to be, uh, I dunno, it just turns out to be funny if anyone says anything about it. But, uh, yeah, that just reminded me of, you it but yeah, that, that whole thing that eight years ago, which just kind of blew my mind.

00:22:52.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:55.49
Bill
But, um, I'm like, Jesus Christ, man, again, where's the fucking time go?

00:22:55.53
Mike
Yeah, I know.

00:22:59.58
Bill
Right?

00:23:00.12
Mike
Oh, I know. I know, man.

00:23:05.20
Bill
But no, I mean, that was a good reading. And I remember obviously reading that one, just because a the the word tenderness, there's a friend of mine um that i I've known for years that she lives out in La Crosse now, by my friend Sarah.

00:23:11.29
Mike
Hmm.

00:23:17.39
Bill
um She hates the word, well, a lot of people hate the word moist, but for whatever reason, she hates the word tender.

00:23:20.31
Mike
Right.

00:23:22.87
Bill
And I don't know why.

00:23:23.05
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

00:23:24.59
Bill
So when I read that reading every year, it makes me think of her. I actually should have texted her and you know sent her a clip of that but reading.

00:23:27.43
Mike
Sure. if

00:23:30.29
Bill
but It just makes me laugh, I thought about it. But anything else from the reading at all? I mean, once again, I say this every week, but it was a good one.

00:23:39.37
Mike
Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I i think we've covered our bases. You know, be nice to each other. Shock people. It's it's a wonderful thing.

00:23:47.24
Bill
be I think you say that at the end of each episode, right? Be kind to somebody, do something nice for somebody.

00:23:49.45
Mike
Yeah, I do. Uh huh. Yeah, right.

00:23:52.06
Bill
Eh, so if you guys happen to stick around to the end of the episode, we're going to tell you that again.

00:23:54.49
Mike
okay Exactly.

00:23:57.41
Bill
But, um, no, I i liked it. I mean, uh, and I know you, you know, you always bring it up that it's from God Grammy, but yeah, you flip it around every once in a while and you know, keep it simple comes in there here and there.

00:24:03.63
Mike
yeah

00:24:06.12
Mike
Mm hmm. All right. Yeah. You know, again, if we, if I like one, i'll I don't care where it's from. One of these days are going to pull one out of the fucking 24 hour book and scare the hell out of all you.

00:24:12.00
Bill
Right.

00:24:16.75
Bill
Well, there was you know the the only reason that I, and there was, God, within the last couple of weeks, I posted something out of the 24 hour book, actually on on Instagram, obviously Instagram and Facebook.

00:24:24.22
Mike
Hmm.

00:24:26.58
Mike
Right. Right.

00:24:28.27
Bill
Two reasons I don't normally do that is because a lot of it is um specifically AA stuff.

00:24:34.37
Mike
Right.

00:24:34.71
Bill
you know And i'm not I'm not trying, I don't give a fuck, we're AA based and all that stuff.

00:24:37.81
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:38.11
Bill
And I'm not trying to say that we're not that, but I do know we have people that follow us and listen to us that aren't that, so I try to make it more general.

00:24:45.78
Mike
Sure.

00:24:46.06
Bill
um But then a lot of it I just don't post cause it's fucking God, God, God, God, God, you know?

00:24:50.14
Mike
Oh yeah. ah Super religious. You know, right.

00:24:52.71
Bill
It's just...

00:24:53.01
Mike
I mean, yeah. And the last, well, thankfully the last, uh, whatever week or two, uh, whatever it's bad. Yeah. I mean, they're doing a lot of quotes out of the big book, which is nice.

00:25:01.70
Bill
right yeah but uh but yeah every once in a while you know i mean some i first of all i enjoy the readings but um every once in a while i'll pick one out that i that i post but rarely but it's uh yeah it's a good one and then i get you know same thing that from um a day at a time i

00:25:02.50
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:11.80
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:25:18.39
Bill
I don't post all the time out of there. um Not for any other reason but you know two things is just sometimes they're the readings because again it's on my phone and I get a screenshot it and there's only a certain I'll call it height you know that you can post on there without and I can put it into a real rather than a post and it's fine and I do that but I don't know sometimes it just

00:25:31.48
Mike
Right. Right.

00:25:40.20
Bill
a day at a time is a little bit more rambling and not as much to the point as some of these other ones.

00:25:43.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:25:44.42
Bill
What you get is fine.

00:25:44.60
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:25:45.13
Bill
But I'm like, eh, I don't know.

00:25:45.41
Mike
Right.

00:25:46.84
Bill
Just it depends on what what jumps out at me.

00:25:47.31
Mike
ah Yeah.

00:25:48.76
Bill
so All right, so nothing else on the reading?

00:25:51.78
Mike
Now we're good.

00:25:52.90
Bill
OK. you're funny yet we're good so- the other reason I thought about this is because it's coming up our our monthly payment of twenty dollars is coming up but we haven't mentioned- send castor in a while so I just wanted to.

00:25:56.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:01.16
Mike
Hmm.

00:26:04.55
Mike
We haven't.

00:26:05.83
Bill
Wanted to bring it up and I think it does shit it's been three months four months I should look back and- what it whatever it's been the only trouble we had is when my internet went out.

00:26:09.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:15.21
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:26:16.14
Bill
That was in Indiana that had nothing to do with Senncaster.

00:26:19.38
Mike
No.

00:26:20.70
Bill
But it's been it's been beautiful. It's been wonderful.

00:26:24.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:24.17
Bill
The piecing together everything. The recording is one thing. you know But ah we've had split episodes. We've you know only recorded with people half the time and started doing all these different things that we've done.

00:26:34.67
Bill
um It's been, I'm going to say, flawless as far as I'm going to put it.

00:26:37.62
Mike
yeah

00:26:38.97
Bill
And the sound quality and the recording quality has been beautiful.

00:26:43.09
Mike
absolutely Absolutely. Yeah.

00:26:44.64
Bill
Yeah.

00:26:44.62
Mike
I mean, it's, it's like you said, been flawless. There have been no flaws in Zen caster.

00:26:50.61
Bill
hey And you know, as soon as we figured out that the echo cancellation, because that was causing, and I couldn't figure it out until I had, that took me um probably about a half hour of research to figure out why our voices were interrupting or conversation was.

00:27:01.00
Mike
yeah Sure. sure

00:27:03.87
Bill
Cause like when you just said, mm-hmm, ensure sure it would cut you off or cut me off ah during those timeframes. And it was, it was the echo cancellation because they do it more of a, and again, it's simplistic. It's a blanket rather than an individual echo cancellation.

00:27:15.61
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:27:16.78
Bill
um But I mean, I don't know, it's been it's been fucking wonderful. And it is, it's simple, and but that's like, to your point, that's what we need.

00:27:23.43
Mike
Yes. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. Keep it simple.

00:27:25.33
Bill
yeah

00:27:26.31
Mike
Keep it fucking simple.

00:27:26.53
Bill
right Oh, you know, it's funny, though. um I was one of Mark Baron's episodes recently. um It was in the last couple of weeks, one of the ones I listened to God knows which one it was.

00:27:36.79
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:27:37.41
Bill
But um he said, Yeah, he goes coming to you from the podcast. He goes, Yes, just audio, you don't have to look at anything, you don't do whatever.

00:27:43.11
Mike
Right.

00:27:43.65
Bill
He goes, I keep it whatever he said. And I'm like, that's kind of cool. You know, because I don't think he's ever, has he ever done any video stuff?

00:27:47.23
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:50.93
Bill
I mean, he'll do a live show every once in a while, right?

00:27:52.74
Mike
Right.

00:27:53.33
Bill
I think he's done but

00:27:53.53
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, as far as the podcast goes, no, it's it's pure. Well, he's a radio guy. It's where he came from.

00:27:58.50
Bill
Right.

00:27:59.03
Mike
So yeah, definitely. No, he's always just been audio.

00:28:03.82
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, seriously, you know, I, I, again, we tried the one video thing. I know you hated it and I don't see it. I don't, I don't see a point unless maybe there's something we do in the future. We do have the ability to do video on here, be fun to try it just to see how it is.

00:28:15.23
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

00:28:17.37
Bill
You know, at some point, but we don't really, this is fine. This is exactly what, what it is intended for our little podcast to be.

00:28:20.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:23.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:25.37
Bill
So, all right.

00:28:25.46
Mike
Exactly. Exactly. Hey, speaking of Mark, did you see who he had on today?

00:28:30.87
Bill
Um, no.

00:28:31.86
Mike
Ah, Chris Robinson.

00:28:33.65
Bill
Oh, no, shit.

00:28:34.84
Mike
Yep.

00:28:35.41
Bill
Okay.

00:28:35.45
Mike
Yep. I didn't get through the whole thing because today was screwy at work, but I actually did listen to about three quarters of it and it's really good. So check it out.

00:28:45.34
Bill
Yeah, because he was, i like I said, I listened to Conan had Chris Robinson on whatever that was a few months ago or a couple of months ago.

00:28:50.04
Mike
Hmm. Okay.

00:28:52.82
Bill
But um yeah, I'll have to do that because I do and i'll I'll check into, especially as I'm driving and stuff like that, because I'm done now with the Rob Lowe book.

00:28:58.19
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:00.70
Bill
Oh, I was able to, yeah, first of the month, I got my credit for Audible and I've got Moon Zappa's book already ah ready to go.

00:29:05.30
Mike
Ah. Cool.

00:29:08.46
Bill
So, and again, like 10 hours of whatever.

00:29:10.85
Mike
Right.

00:29:11.43
Bill
Um, which I mean, if I started that the minute I left, well, probably I wouldn't be able to finish it by the time I got back. But, um, but yeah, I mean, I, I flip into, into Mark's stuff and I'll flip through that stuff.

00:29:21.45
Bill
And I can't remember who he had on that. He had a couple of people on that I listened to recently, but, um, yeah, that'll be, that'll be good. So I, yeah, he's, I tell you what, he was a fun guest on, on Conan.

00:29:28.75
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:32.77
Bill
So I get it.

00:29:32.74
Mike
Yeah, I bet. I mean, you know, he's a smart dude. Yeah. So yeah, yeah it was good.

00:29:35.06
Bill
Yeah.

00:29:37.67
Mike
I'll have to, I'll probably finish it.

00:29:38.20
Bill
cool

00:29:39.67
Mike
du I've got a very long, we'll talk about that, but I've got a train ride this weekend.

00:29:45.98
Bill
Yeah, so what you know what? And I was going to ask you about that because, well, two things. I don't i know you're going to Chicago, right? But i don't I don't remember why.

00:29:51.62
Mike
Right.

00:29:53.02
Bill
I don't remember the deal behind it. So do tell.

00:29:54.97
Mike
Um, I mean, well, um, my girlfriend, Chris's oldest son, Donnie is, uh, he lives there now. Uh, he works for United airlines. And so, uh, yeah. So we're just going to go hang out with him and his husband this weekend.

00:30:07.23
Mike
I mean, it's no special deal or anything. We just going to go hang out.

00:30:09.79
Bill
Right.

00:30:10.88
Mike
Yeah. So, um, yeah. So we're flying out tomorrow morning and then, uh, we were, we got really cheap tickets to go there, um, one way. And we were like waiting for, you know, to get.

00:30:22.61
Mike
tickets to come back and we're waiting and looking and waiting and looking and the prices just aren't coming down. We got super cheap for one way to go there. So we're like, well hell, it's getting pretty close. We're going to have to figure something out.

00:30:35.16
Mike
So, uh, yeah, we looked at the train Amtrak. We're Amtrak can get back Monday morning. Well, we're leaving Sunday night and getting back like really early Monday morning. So yeah.

00:30:42.70
Bill
No shit.

00:30:43.88
Mike
And neither of us, have I've never been on Amtrak before. Have you?

00:30:48.11
Bill
Um, I know. I mean, I've been on a fucking greyhound before, but, um, yeah, never, never Amtrak.

00:30:50.58
Mike
Right.

00:30:53.05
Mike
Oh yeah. Yeah, me too.

00:30:55.98
Bill
I, um, I was going to say I, I had think for a minute, but no, never, never.

00:30:59.34
Mike
Yeah. So gonna be new experience. Yeah.

00:31:02.66
Bill
Well, that's cool.

00:31:03.05
Mike
So, but yes, but it's, it's like, you know, technically, like I said, we're leaving it like nine 30 at night and getting back at like five 30 in the morning or something.

00:31:04.34
Bill
Yeah.

00:31:11.42
Mike
So, um, yeah, you know, it's going to be, I've got some podcasts downloaded so I could it it Uh-huh. Cause I mean, I'm sure Chris is going to crash out, but, um, I don't sleep well in those situations.

00:31:24.82
Bill
Well.

00:31:26.12
Mike
So I'm probably not going to sleep very much until I get home. So, uh, yeah, you know, I'm planning it on being awake for about 20 to 24 hours and that's fine.

00:31:36.83
Bill
Well, you know, what's funny is, I mean, anytime that I've there's only one time that I've completely fallen asleep, like flat out. night Literally, i I passed out on a plane because I was fucking loaded.

00:31:46.57
Mike
Right. No. Yeah. No. Yeah.

00:31:49.56
Bill
um But other than that, I mean, any sort of even in the car, I mean, i I'd rather I'd rather drive because I know I can't sleep sometimes.

00:31:54.43
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:31:58.29
Bill
You know, the last time I forget Kathy and I were going someplace. it was after i got sober and i had taken something along i think it was one of the kids had these portable dvd players so this was a long time ago but i'm like oh i'm gonna grab you know i think i had derricks whatever it was i'm like i gotta to watch a movie and i started watching it and i almost almost like a vertigo type of thing i'm like what the fuck man you know so

00:32:03.21
Mike
Sure.

00:32:07.77
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right. Hmm.

00:32:20.95
Bill
so yeah i mean i can't i can't do that i'm like well this is this sucks you know say i couldn't i it's like if i try to focus on something like that it's it's weird i i can't explain it but um but yeah the only time that on i used to fly a lot when i was when don and i were together but um yeah one time coming back from portland i get all fucking ripped up almost almost missed a flight

00:32:24.41
Mike
Great. Right. right

00:32:39.71
Mike
Uh

00:32:42.18
Bill
Got on the plane and you know I as we were taking off I passed out I was in first class I was was flying first class at that time so plenty of room to stretch out whatever And I I woke up when the wheels touched down in Minneapolis Yeah, because it was I it was Northwest Airlines and one of their hubs was Minneapolis Minneapolis Detroit and I forget where the other one was and Um, but, uh, yeah, so I, I mean, it's kind of like, yeah, after three, out three and a half hours of a fucking it passed out sleep, I get jolted up after being loaded.

00:32:46.57
Mike
-huh.

00:32:55.90
Mike
Hmm. Right. Right.

00:33:08.96
Mike
fifty Yeah.

00:33:13.39
Bill
But, uh, yeah, I mean, that's cool though. I mean, I don't know. I given the, again, to take like just a leisurely type of trip like that, you know, I mean, I wouldn't mind doing an Amtrak, you know?

00:33:21.79
Mike
yeah Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's not super cheap and, you know, whatever we're just doing the coach. So we're just getting seats. I mean, but you can get, you know, you can get a little, little room and a little sleeper birth faction and all that stuff.

00:33:35.86
Mike
And I mean, one of these days I wouldn't mind taking a trip someplace a little farther and doing it, doing it right. And having the sleeper birth and yeah, be kind of fun.

00:33:44.53
Bill
Right. Well, there's the, you know, because they're ah in Milwaukee, there's there's a commuter train that runs from Milwaukee to Chicago.

00:33:51.95
Mike
Sure.

00:33:52.62
Bill
um You know, it's 90 minutes, whatever it is. And that's been, I mean, for for years, it was used to just leave at like, I don't know, it was like six in the morning and then come back at six at night, whatever the deal was.

00:34:03.61
Mike
Right.

00:34:04.56
Bill
But they have, I can't remember what the line's called now, but they have all these different um trains that go but back and forth throughout the day now because you know so many people do it.

00:34:10.61
Mike
Hmm. Right.

00:34:13.30
Bill
But I mean, especially when I was Ubering, I'd pick people up there every once in a while. um And yeah, people literally commute from Milwaukee to Chicago.

00:34:18.89
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:34:21.61
Bill
um it's an hour you know It's an hour and a half of, or I'm sorry, three hours of commuting back and forth. But depending on what kind of, I don't know what these fucking people do you know for a living. or

00:34:30.67
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:34:31.30
Bill
or whatever. And I know a lot of people get out on the train, they just sleep for an hour and then get up and work and come back. And I'm like, I mean, I tell you one thing, it beats the hell out of driving to Chicago.

00:34:37.12
Mike
ah

00:34:41.08
Mike
Oh yeah.

00:34:42.27
Bill
You know, I mean, that could be three hours one way.

00:34:42.70
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly.

00:34:46.07
Bill
You know, with traffic. So well, that's cool.

00:34:47.10
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I'll report back next week and let you know how the train ride way.

00:34:52.78
Bill
Yeah, I do want to hear that because it'll it'll be interesting. I think everything that I've heard about that commuter line between Milwaukee and Chicago I've heard is nice um and comfortable and all that sort of stuff.

00:35:02.92
Bill
So I'm i'm guessing it's i'm guessing you would you'd be in the same circumstance, but yeah, it'll be interesting.

00:35:03.28
Mike
Right.

00:35:07.92
Bill
So other thing is the last week, the whole radio gig, obviously I listened to it, I think the last 10 minutes or whatever I was doing something, so I don't think I listened to the last 10 minutes.

00:35:16.36
Mike
Oh, well.

00:35:17.17
Bill
but

00:35:20.16
Bill
But yeah, because I was getting everything together and i my brain was tired and finally I'm like, I got to sit down and just fucking watch some TV, you know, whatever it was.

00:35:28.00
Mike
aha Can't take my awful music anymore.

00:35:29.38
Bill
but No, I mean, that wasn't it. I, the, here's the thing. So here's the funny part. And I told you last year too, that last year I enjoyed the entire set same deal this year.

00:35:37.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:40.36
Bill
So I think that I, I recognize some of the same songs on a yearly basis. as That's first thing maybe, or of other songs that no.

00:35:47.19
Mike
no I mean, say bands and I try not to repeat songs, but yeah, we said they all sound the same.

00:35:51.86
Bill
Okay. And it's, I could be wrong. Maybe. and No, no, no, but I had thought maybe I just heard them before when you and I are together. So songs that I've heard before.

00:36:00.59
Mike
Yeah, baby.

00:36:00.84
Bill
So, so there is a familiarity.

00:36:01.57
Mike
Right.

00:36:03.09
Bill
So that's one thing.

00:36:03.51
Mike
Sure.

00:36:04.46
Bill
But, um, you know, when you're like, I loved when you were talking about going in and you're like, okay, i'm we're going to go into some glam stuff and like, okay, you metal heads don't run away. I'm going to ease you into this.

00:36:14.56
Mike
Right.

00:36:15.99
Bill
I just made me laugh. But what made me laugh? And I was thinking about, oh, hey, look at that. Your radio gig's kind of like our podcast.

00:36:22.74
Mike
ah the

00:36:23.10
Bill
The fact that um you're the ban or ah the song from your band, that they got messed up, right?

00:36:28.34
Mike
yeah Yeah. It did. Yes. Um, yeah, because, uh, they, they sent me a, just a burn disc and, um, I mean, I played it.

00:36:40.19
Mike
I played it at home and I played it in the car and everything worked just fine. So, but we got it in those high end ah CD players there at the radio station. And apparently that track that I wanted just wasn't coming up. So whatever. So we played another one. It worked out just fine.

00:36:55.87
Bill
Yeah, I mean, it was a good song, and that's what Bill said. He's like, he's like I'm glad we played that one. He goes, that's ah because that's a really good song. And then he asked you if you wrote it, but you said you did the riff and the whole bit.

00:37:01.71
Mike
yeah ahha All right.

00:37:04.84
Bill
See, I listened, I listened.

00:37:06.53
Mike
Yes, you did.

00:37:08.42
Bill
You know, but um no, I really enjoyed it, but I guess, he rather than the, who cares what I thought? I mean, you had fun, obviously, I'm guessing, right?

00:37:13.56
Mike
yeah i I always do. Yup. Yup. Always have fun doing it. And yeah, a lot of good feedback, you know, from, uh, from Bill's regular listeners and, uh, you know, and then friends and stuff around. I was getting, you know, a lot of people messaging me and stuff. I didn't get to everybody, but ah whatever. Um,

00:37:32.47
Bill
Right.

00:37:33.35
Mike
But yeah, you know, people from my past and my present and whatever all around the, all around the globe, man, we're messaging in and checking in and stuff. Yeah. It's, it's fun. I love doing it. Can't wait to do it again next year.

00:37:46.49
Bill
Right. Yeah, just I mean you could first of all you can tell that that you it everything is put together nicely, you know, and the the end result and I know the amount of work you put into it the set list you put together and that sort of thing but it even with the again that little bit of a glitch with your song, but it was still it was it your side was great song you know from your band.

00:37:59.97
Mike
Right.

00:38:04.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:07.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:08.29
Bill
um but Even with that, I mean, everything just, you do a nice job, I guess is what I'm saying.

00:38:14.26
Mike
Right.

00:38:15.24
Bill
So I mean, you do a really nice job, everything flows.

00:38:17.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:18.48
Bill
It just, it's nice. It's really cool to listen to. And it actually sounds like you know what you're doing, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

00:38:24.31
Mike
yeah Well, there we go. We fooled some more people again this year. No, no, I do. Uh, it means something to me. And, um, you know, if I've learned anything is, you know, if something means something to you, put, put some goddamn work into it.

00:38:38.63
Mike
Then it comes out pretty good.

00:38:38.86
Bill
Right?

00:38:40.28
Mike
So yeah.

00:38:42.30
Bill
Yeah, well, no, and that's the thing too. Like I said, when, you know, when mom had said, even before we got all that, well, when we had the new software, when she's like, she's like, that really, the end result really sounds good, you know?

00:38:52.04
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:38:52.25
Bill
And I'm like, I'm like, we've learned, you know, that's all that it is.

00:38:54.42
Mike
Yeah, sure.

00:38:55.42
Bill
And at this point now that, you know, we, again, we've had to tweak some things over the timeframe, but you just made a very good point.

00:39:01.05
Mike
Mm

00:39:01.91
Bill
You know, I mean, this means something, what we're doing means something to us, even though it's not, it's not like, you know, blood, sweat and tears type of thing.

00:39:04.75
Mike
-hmm.

00:39:09.42
Mike
No.

00:39:09.90
Bill
um you know and we're fucking around in here and all these different things.

00:39:12.25
Mike
Of course.

00:39:12.79
Bill
But but when it comes down to it, the the end result in realizing where to cut an episode, how we do things, you and I having this, and it is this rhythm that we have and knowing not to talk over each other.

00:39:15.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:21.98
Mike
Sure.

00:39:24.20
Bill
And um I've listened to i listened to a lot of podcasts.

00:39:27.67
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:39:28.23
Bill
And when you get two people that are hosting a podcast, it happens so much where people talk over each other.

00:39:35.19
Mike
Right.

00:39:35.48
Bill
And quite honestly, it's fucking annoying.

00:39:38.78
Mike
Yeah, it's hard to listen to. Absolutely.

00:39:42.11
Bill
Yeah, it's just it's just terrible because, you know, I don't know, it's just you, you and I, we learned very quickly and i we never sat down and said, OK, Mike, and you're like, yes, Bill.

00:39:42.13
Mike
Right.

00:39:52.64
Bill
Are you like, Bill? Yes, Mike. When I say this, you've got to say this. Here's your cue.

00:39:56.29
Mike
Right.

00:39:57.60
Bill
That's you know what? Even though we're we're not recording video, a lot of people do video so they can see each other and have those visual cues.

00:40:03.57
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:40:05.65
Bill
um I think that would be to me like I said when we were on video or when we've been on somebody else's podcast I just feel like I'm sitting there.

00:40:12.07
Mike
Right.

00:40:13.98
Bill
I'm sitting up straight. I got my my hands crossed or then you see people on these video once they're just like like yeah, they're doing the nod and all stuff and I'm like it just

00:40:23.04
Mike
Don't not on the radio. Nobody can fucking hear that.

00:40:26.54
Bill
Yeah. But I was just saying, you know, when, when you're on video, just, it's, it feels uncomfortable, you know, and I dunno, we don't, we don't need the visual cues, but, uh, anyhow, back to your thing. I really enjoyed it.

00:40:37.76
Bill
And I seriously, I mean, I did, I liked it and and it was just everything, everything sounded great.

00:40:38.03
Mike
Look good.

00:40:42.64
Bill
It really, really did.

00:40:43.30
Mike
Yeah, yeah, it's fun.

00:40:43.52
Bill
So.

00:40:44.43
Mike
You know, it's, it's, it's real, real radio studio and doing the thing. And yeah, you know, I love it. Um, you know, and I, I've been hearing my whole goddamn life. You spilled radio.

00:40:54.52
Mike
All right. Well, so I do it once a year now. Yeah, it's fine.

00:40:59.05
Bill
right Hey, if anyone out there is listening and wants to pay us a lot of fucking money to have ah a radio show or a podcast where we could do more than one episode not make and actually not lose money on a weekly basis, let us let us know.

00:41:03.07
Mike
Mmm.

00:41:11.73
Mike
Right. yeah Yeah.

00:41:14.00
Bill
We're open to suggestions.

00:41:15.91
Mike
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm fucking playing music for you all you want, but you got to pay for the rights, man.

00:41:20.54
Bill
Yeah, yeah, pay for the rights.

00:41:21.73
Mike
We can't afford that.

00:41:23.87
Bill
Yeah, pay for the rights and pay for pay for our right to be on there and and live the lives that we want to live. Live the lives we want to live.

00:41:30.02
Mike
Yes.

00:41:31.99
Bill
All right, so on on that note, you know what? Why don't we take a break?

00:41:35.72
Mike
Why don't we? Yeah. Speaking of paying bills and all that happy crap. We'll be right back after these words from our sponsor.

00:41:51.00
Bill
all right everyone welcome back and yeah we probably got another 14 cents for that ad that just paid yeah you know it's funny i was actually looking at because when i said that we get these of these checks or not checks but deposits like uh i don't know once every couple of months

00:41:57.81
Mike
Yay.

00:42:07.86
Bill
it is um I was looking at the um I was looking up something in our um sober not mature bank account night and I looked in it's it is it's like maybe monthly it's been like six dollars or nine dollars or every six weeks whatever it is that they it gets to us it must be a certain threshold of like nine dollars or close in there um but again I mean it's it's it's not even enough to notice

00:42:13.30
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay.

00:42:28.63
Mike
ah Right.

00:42:29.54
Bill
you know I mean, I literally, I had to look to see, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I guess we did get $9 this month, $9 that month.

00:42:34.10
Mike
Mm

00:42:36.71
Bill
It just gets absorbed into our into our small little, yes, so everyone, we have a fucking bank account, but it's not like there's a lot of money in it or anything like that.

00:42:38.45
Mike
-hm. No.

00:42:44.25
Bill
And whatever whatever money is in there gets saved up and then basically pays me back sometimes for, you know and I don't mean that in a bad way, but you know we get the Spotify, we get the website, we get this sort of thing that we pay.

00:42:50.99
Mike
Right.

00:42:54.80
Bill
you know So yeah, donate to us and keep us on the air, boo.

00:42:58.17
Mike
No.

00:42:59.13
Bill
No, don't. That's a joke.

00:43:01.20
Mike
Right.

00:43:01.28
Bill
That's a joke.

00:43:02.07
Mike
Like and share.

00:43:03.79
Bill
Yeah, that's all.

00:43:03.81
Mike
That's all we ask.

00:43:05.03
Bill
That's all we want.

00:43:05.13
Mike
Write a little review if you like it. You gotta get extra a couple of seconds. Type a few things out. Say, these guys are assholes.

00:43:10.20
Bill
Yeah.

00:43:12.80
Bill
Yeah, you know what, we'd appreciate the, there was ah there was an episode, God, I think this was in our first six months or something like that. We were saying something about, I don't know, don't give us ah whatever, keep the bad people away, whatever, and find the way, no, no, no.

00:43:24.77
Mike
Mm. No, no, no.

00:43:26.11
Bill
If you you get something bad to say, please, because we will fuck with you.

00:43:29.11
Mike
That's right.

00:43:30.13
Bill
it and You do. But um all right, so speaking of podcasts, so I listened to ah the Dr. Drew and the William Moyers podcast.

00:43:40.84
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:43:41.91
Bill
So a couple of things here. First of all, just as a side note to you, um it would be a great pot. It's an hour, 45 minutes.

00:43:48.52
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:49.05
Bill
I think it's an hour.

00:43:49.85
Mike
OK.

00:43:50.62
Bill
It would be a good one to listen to before we have him on.

00:43:52.22
Mike
Yeah. Right, right, right.

00:43:53.57
Bill
um nice background. They ip apparently they've been friends for a long time. They've known each other.

00:43:57.77
Mike
Okay. Sure.

00:43:58.85
Bill
um He's been on Dr. Drew's podcast before, which again, all those things when I said, yeah, motherfuckers, why did they get whatever?

00:44:04.59
Mike
o isn

00:44:05.55
Bill
um I knew they're, again, it's Dr. Drew, we're not Dr. Drew, you know, whatever we want to think of him, we're not at that level.

00:44:09.14
Mike
No, no, of course not.

00:44:11.64
Bill
um But so they, they have a history and they talked about some things and they talked about, you know, his first book and his second book, and he dipped into a little bit about a story.

00:44:15.13
Mike
so

00:44:19.95
Bill
It was, it was nicely done, but the, the thing of it is with, with Dr. Drew, which kind of made me laugh is, you know, he's, they start talking about substance, like Dr. Drew would be like, okay, do you want to drill on that a little bit more?

00:44:31.32
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:44:32.18
Bill
And I'm just like,

00:44:34.00
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:44:34.89
Bill
What we know I listen to it when I went to get my pizza because again 25 minutes one way 25 minutes back I literally I listened to the entire what I was pulling into the driveway and parking my car.

00:44:39.24
Mike
Alright.

00:44:45.94
Bill
I Think I sat in my car for another three minutes to finish up the episode So I listened to the whole thing last Friday night, but um it was it was good.

00:44:50.04
Mike
Okay.

00:44:54.02
Bill
I mean he it was it was nicely done He again, I don't think we're gonna have a problem with like drunken logs and things like that He would he would talk about what he was asked to talk about type of thing. um I don't know.

00:45:05.15
Bill
It was nice It was but again, it was good background a good history and and all those sort of things but he's got a I'll say he's got pretty much the same mindset as us, maybe some variances. as You'll hear that when when you listen to it, but i think we're goingnna I think we'll mesh well with him, which is cool.

00:45:21.74
Bill
and you know Dr. Drew, wasn't he wasn't terrible wasn't terrible to listen to. so

00:45:26.53
Mike
All right. Well, I just, uh, just went on the old Spotify and downloaded it. So I'll probably check it out on the train ride back.

00:45:34.67
Bill
Yeah. Like I said, I don't, I, I, the love line stuff is probably the last time that I've, I might've watched celebrity rehab or whatever the hell he did. Um, but I seriously, I don't think that I've, I don't think I've listened to anything that he's done or, I mean, I know about him.

00:45:49.54
Mike
Right.

00:45:50.87
Bill
i He's been around and all that stuff, but,

00:45:51.28
Mike
Yeah. Right. Well, I mean, like I said, I listened to Adam Corollas for several years and so he would pop in quite often and yeah, you know, I, and I haven't listened to Corolla's podcast and probably shit getting close to two years now, but yeah.

00:45:58.07
Bill
Oh, I suppose.

00:46:05.45
Mike
Um, Well, well, whatever. Cause like I said, he changed his format a bit and I just went, man, I got other things to listen to.

00:46:13.08
Bill
So Adam Carolla changes format?

00:46:14.87
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, two years back, I mean, cause his, his podcast was basically his morning show from radio for a long time.

00:46:23.47
Bill
Oh.

00:46:24.05
Mike
You know, he had people on, he had the news girl and blood, you know, the usual shit. It was like a radio shows. So it was good to listen to, but he got rid of all those people and it's just like him interviewing people and stuff now.

00:46:35.91
Mike
And it's like, eh, you know, there's there's better ones out there for that.

00:46:37.22
Bill
Right.

00:46:39.28
Mike
So yeah.

00:46:39.68
Bill
Right.

00:46:40.49
Mike
yeah

00:46:41.52
Bill
Well, and and that's the thing that that's that's really what, I don't know, that's what that's what everyone does. You get all these people in places and everyone's you know ah interviewing celebrities.

00:46:47.06
Mike
Right.

00:46:52.95
Bill
And like I said, I got into, I listened to a little bit of a fly in the wall thing with Dana Carvey and David Spade. I'll dip into the Conan O'Brien, depending on who's on there. Obviously Mark, I listened to Smartless.

00:47:05.54
Bill
oh they had um smartless had michael keaton on uh recently which was i i've always liked michael keaton and you know it was a it was a good um well they do a nice job you know because they i don't know it's just it's such an open and loose conversation but um he was a lot of fun and there was a recent thing he did michael keaton did on uh netflix and basically it was a

00:47:09.13
Mike
o Yeah, me too.

00:47:17.41
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:47:29.00
Bill
he's a hit man and but he develops this form of I mean really debilitating dementia you know and he's kind of leading into it um really good really interesting they didn't even talk about that one but obviously only touched a little bit on the Beetlejuice Beetlejuice coming up um you know but obviously talked about that I went I went at night I re-watched Beetlejuice after I listened to it because I listened to it last weekend and

00:47:34.62
Mike
ah

00:47:44.92
Mike
Right.

00:47:50.16
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:47:53.04
Bill
you know is on one of the ones like Cinemax or something for or Max for free so I watched that I haven't seen that movie in fucking years he is he is so ridiculously funny at that I mean that's I know everyone knows that but if you I I tell you anyone out there if you haven't watched it in a while

00:47:56.92
Mike
Hmm.

00:48:03.07
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

00:48:09.34
Bill
I watch it again because it was just, I know the whole movie, but I'm just like, oh my God, he's fucking hilarious.

00:48:11.58
Mike
Mm-hm.

00:48:14.98
Bill
um But it's really good. so So, you know, like things like that, ill I'll see celebrities or, you know, certain ones, but some of them you just go through and I'm like, what the fuck do I want to listen to this jag for, you know?

00:48:20.70
Mike
Right.

00:48:25.16
Mike
a

00:48:25.97
Bill
I mean, but that's, that's what everyone does now, you know, everyone, you know, listens or has, has a podcast and, you know, anyone who's got any status, everyone's, you know, that the same celebrity will be on seven different podcasts, you know.

00:48:28.45
Mike
Right.

00:48:31.75
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:48:38.70
Mike
Sure. Yeah. Well, they' yeah, they're doing a press tour. So, you know, right.

00:48:41.05
Bill
Yeah, which again is is fine, you know, but same thing what with we're going to do with William Moyers, you know, he's going to end up up, you know, I don't think I think Dr.

00:48:45.31
Mike
Absolutely.

00:48:49.04
Bill
Drew's the only one because I did a search on it I was going to see if he'd been a being been on anything else because I want to I'll listen to other podcasts between now and then just ah if he's on them but um as of whenever it was last week he hadn't been but

00:48:57.40
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:49:02.31
Bill
yeah I don't know it's yeah interesting stuff one way or the other but yeah like you said maybe I've never listened to to Adam you know as far as the podcast goes but yeah everyone's doing everyone's doing something like that so yeah but um okay so so real quick I just got two things to tell you about with kind of the kick around that I did

00:49:09.68
Mike
Right.

00:49:13.72
Mike
right

00:49:20.84
Bill
A couple of places I went, not a big deal. I had i had a wonderful time. um the The one place that I went, though, last weekend, it was this, it ended up being, because I looked at it, and it was an abandoned campground, okay, where this trail was. And I and i read that in there, and I actually passed it. it was It's within like 15 minutes away from here, because I kind of stuck in this area on on Sunday. Saturday, I went out to a couple other places, but, or no, on Monday, I'm sorry.

00:49:48.66
Bill
So get to this place and I passed it. I'm like, i'm like what the fuck man? I drove all the way up this this road and this hill. And I'm looking at the all trails and I'm like, wait a second, it's way back there. So I went all the way back. And I can tell that nobody had been there because I'm walking down this one trail and I'm running into the spider webs and cobwebs. I'm like, God damn it.

00:50:08.92
Bill
ah Fucking stick trying to get all this stuff through but it was weird when you walk in there and everything's overgrown You can see where the road was where the other camp campsites were picnic tables. It's just weird I mean, it's all overgrown, you know, but then this this lake that I took ah I took a bunch of pictures on it But it had almost a almost like a green type of um I don't know like an emerald type of glow to the water it it was really fucking weird but really cool and So, so I get back there kind of this opening, you can tell, you know, the kids must go to the party.

00:50:33.79
Mike
Yeah. yeah

00:50:39.95
Bill
I saw an empty case, empty case, you know, cardboard case of beer.

00:50:40.46
Mike
Sure.

00:50:43.26
Mike
sir Yeah.

00:50:43.69
Bill
I have people water bottles and shit. It was literally and not a lot, but there was some. um But I'm just staying in there and I'm like, there's nobody, you know, there's no sound.

00:50:53.12
Mike
yeah

00:50:54.96
Bill
um The water was completely calm.

00:50:57.03
Mike
Nice.

00:50:58.28
Bill
um It's, it reminded me of the lakes that I hit around the Ozarks, but in there, I mean, there's people on boats and fishing and this and that. there was like none of that.

00:51:06.78
Mike
nice

00:51:07.25
Bill
So I just I just stood there and like I was sitting on one of the rocks. I took some pictures do whatever I spent like probably 20 minutes just kind of like just being there.

00:51:15.76
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:51:17.21
Bill
I mean, it was just it was it was quiet to the point almost a little bit of being creepy, you know, but you know, because I'm like, and I'm not I'm not far out in the middle of nowhere. It's not that far to the road where but you know what I mean.

00:51:27.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:28.31
Bill
But it was just it was so out of the ordinary to again, I mean, nobody, you know, it's fucking beautiful.

00:51:32.67
Mike
Right.

00:51:34.35
Bill
But

00:51:34.66
Mike
I bet.

00:51:36.20
Bill
But it it reminded me of, so the first weekend I was here, and I completely forgot about this until the other day, so I wrote it down. So when I was going out to the first place, when I got my haircut and I was going out to that first place that Sunday, first Sunday I was here, they have all along these areas, especially in these mountain areas, they have the, you know, you've seen it before driving, you drive enough, the like the scenic overlooks where you can pull in and you know that.

00:51:57.67
Mike
Sure.

00:51:58.82
Bill
So um I'm coming up on one. And I hadn't planned on stopping, but it's like, oh, turn here, scenic overlook. So I pull in, and it's a driveway that's probably about the length of your, when you pull into your street to where your house is, you know, it's not really far, but a little bit off the road.

00:52:11.79
Mike
and Okay. Mm hmm, mm hmm.

00:52:14.38
Bill
And then you pull in, there's a parking lot that kind of loops around. And then to the right is the, just this huge open area and just like, oh, I can't see it, see it all the mountains. So I pull in there and there's a pickup truck kind of backed in.

00:52:27.69
Bill
nobody else there but again I'm not back in the middle of the wilderness just kind of you know again far off not that far off the road newer pickup truck not a piece of junk or anything like that windows up but kind of tinted so I couldn't tell right away that somebody was in there but it turned out that as I kind of glanced over the sun hit the right way I could see somebody was sitting in there I'm like yeah no big deal

00:52:33.49
Mike
Right.

00:52:43.69
Mike
Uh huh.

00:52:46.39
Bill
took a couple of pictures and the way that I pulled in I didn't pull into a parking spot just kind of pulled up you know kind of parallel to where I was where I was looking and my car was still running because I wasn't going to be there long took a couple of pictures and I you know probably between halfway between my car and where this truck was and I saw somebody and they're no big deal nobody's rolled down their windows but I'm walking back to my car and I hear hey Hey, and I'm like, turn around, the guy like guy's like, are you visiting or are you visiting from out of town?

00:53:10.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:13.83
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:16.70
Bill
And I'm like, nope. Walked back to my car, got in and got the fuck out of there.

00:53:20.21
Mike
Uh huh.

00:53:23.04
Bill
Because first of all, again, my car, the front of my car is facing where his truck is far far enough away, six, seven parking spots away, but I mean, easily you can see it's not a North Carolina plate.

00:53:27.89
Mike
Right.

00:53:32.17
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:53:34.47
Bill
But I'm like, what's this fucking dude's deal?

00:53:36.75
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:53:38.01
Bill
I didn't even like barely even looked at him, you know? And I'm like, nope, got back in my car and like, boom, like it burned out of there. But I'm like, what the fuck is this dude just back there? way I mean, I don't know.

00:53:47.34
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:48.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:53:48.91
Mike
You know, get right. Yeah, you look mighty fine on them jeans, boy.

00:53:52.14
Bill
that you know what And that's what I was thinking about. There's these rest areas in, and this used to be, ah I mean, I know you know this, but especially in all over the place, but then when you get into like the northern part of Wisconsin, some of these outlying areas in Wisconsin, and apparently kind of like there's something about Mary type of thing.

00:53:56.83
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:05.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:09.11
Bill
You know ah pull into the parking lot, just walk into the weeds and you know get your shit blown and whatever.

00:54:09.25
Mike
Yep.

00:54:14.09
Mike
Heh heh heh heh heh.

00:54:14.77
Bill
um But that was that was extremely, apparently problematic, I'm sure everywhere, but Wisconsin was a big problem. you know

00:54:20.95
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:21.58
Bill
So yeah, I'm wondering if that guy is, he's, he's back there, you know, what do you call cruising?

00:54:24.82
Mike
Yeah.

00:54:25.48
Bill
You know, looking for some Dick or whatever it is or yeah.

00:54:25.96
Mike
Right. Looking, looking for a date.

00:54:29.07
Bill
Or, you know, he wanted to wear my skin. I don't know. Either way, I yeah either way.

00:54:31.81
Mike
Yeah. With that too. Right. Yeah. Or, you know, or take your wallet and your phone or whatever. Right. There's a lot of possibilities and none of them are all that good.

00:54:37.86
Bill
Yeah.

00:54:40.27
Mike
So.

00:54:41.43
Bill
Yeah, but it was it was funny because the some of these other scenic overlooks are just kind of off the road type of thing where um this one was like again back into a parking lot and I think there was probably there might have been a trail that went off of there too.

00:54:54.84
Bill
um So I'm glad that I wasn't actually trying to you know go back there and you know like actually do a little trail hike or or anything like that but

00:54:54.85
Mike
Mhmm. Right. Mhmm.

00:55:01.39
Bill
Um, I don't know all the different places I've been and again, like out in the middle of literally middle of freaking nowhere.

00:55:06.76
Mike
Mhmm.

00:55:08.09
Bill
Um, that was the only time, only time I've been approached, you know, by anyone, but, uh, yeah, completely, completely forgot to tell you about that.

00:55:09.66
Mike
Right.

00:55:14.58
Bill
But, but yeah, so I don't know. I mean, my, my time here is almost done and I'm looking around at different places. I mean, this, this area would be fun to come back in the fall, but I really want to go West Virginia.

00:55:27.03
Bill
That's kind of my, I'm really trying to focus on that area because there's this this um whole area called the New River Gorge.

00:55:34.29
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:55:34.92
Bill
And it's ah kind of a Grand Canyon looking type of thing again, kind of like I went to down in Arkansas.

00:55:37.75
Mike
Right.

00:55:39.81
Bill
There's again there, Virginia, this National Forest, which is also beautiful, but I'm like, nah, man, I'm in West Virginia. you know once I really want to go to this this Gorge type of thing, but I might be able to get within an hour of it, which is fine.

00:55:49.45
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:55:52.30
Bill
you know, I just gotta gotta keep looking at that patience, my friend, right?

00:55:55.02
Mike
Absolutely. he Cool.

00:55:57.39
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, other than that, it's just been I don't know, I've had ah I've had a really good time here. And like the host has been great. And I've had a couple of questions here and there and no issues. And I don't know, it's just been it's been wonderful.

00:56:06.39
Mike
Hmm.

00:56:08.57
Bill
So I highly recommend this area, North Carolina.

00:56:09.26
Mike
Good.

00:56:11.63
Bill
Again, I'm in the I'm in the point, you know, by by Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, this entire area is fucking spectacular.

00:56:18.01
Mike
All right.

00:56:20.13
Bill
So there.

00:56:21.09
Mike
Nope.

00:56:22.50
Bill
about keeping you awake or something over there?

00:56:23.37
Mike
Yeah. Hey, hey, you caught me in the on.

00:56:25.34
Bill
Yeah, no, I know, I know.

00:56:26.51
Mike
It's been a long day. It's been a long day for a short week.

00:56:28.25
Bill
But um you know what? Honest to God, I thought the same goddamn thing. I mean, it's literally, it's the it's been, you know, it's three days. It's, you know, I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:56:37.85
Mike
Yeah, right. And that's all I'm doing this week.

00:56:41.60
Bill
Oh yeah, yeah.

00:56:41.87
Mike
You know, I've done working for the week.

00:56:41.96
Bill
yeah

00:56:43.43
Mike
Yeah, but it's still, it's been, uh, yeah, it's been a long one for only three days. So I've already taken nice long weekend.

00:56:48.52
Bill
Yeah. yeah Well, yeah, and tomorrow's gonna be kind of a long-ish day. I got a short day of work, but then, um you know, obviously it's, you know, it's my pack-up day, you know, just trying to get everything kind of organized with that, go grab my pizza, obviously go to Georgia, get my pizza, um you know, but then the Packer game's on tomorrow night, I wanna get up early so I can get back, because it's, you know, it's 10 hours in the car, which is fine, you know, but um yeah, it's gonna be, tomorrow's gonna be, ah ah tomorrow and Saturday are gonna be long days, but in ah in the best possible way, so.

00:56:58.02
Mike
Mm hmm. Oh yeah.

00:57:17.31
Mike
Right All right, it's all right he Why not

00:57:18.64
Bill
all right um all right a couple of things about all right did i say i'll write it up all right all right tried i said it the first time like why the fuck did you just say all right again you dumb ass so i figured i pointed out why not right All right, so it is, I did it again.

00:57:37.74
Bill
God damn it, stop it.

00:57:38.49
Mike
he

00:57:39.50
Bill
It is the ninth month of the year. They were talking about some some place they were talking about it, Bens.

00:57:41.78
Mike
It is.

00:57:44.32
Bill
I don't know if one of the readings, probably the readings and stuff we've been doing.

00:57:45.33
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:57:48.25
Bill
you know And I know we talked about it. We talked about step nine and all that stuff, but there was a couple of things that kind of came to mind.

00:57:53.55
Mike
and Okay.

00:57:53.67
Bill
um So I just kind of wanted to bring them up and you know maybe even if nothing else, I'm sure we'll get into a conversation about how we did the Bens and that's, doesn't it be a structured thing? I know you know that. but my main question was is that was there was there ever I don't remember if we talked about it but did you ever have an immense or a person that you had to make an immense to that you weren't sure or quite sure how to approach and I don't remember if we talked about it but if we did it was a year ago and you know not today I'm not looking for you to name the person I guess I always try to say that you know I know I know but

00:58:21.74
Mike
Right. Um, right. Well, yeah, I wasn't planning on it.

00:58:30.43
Mike
Uh, I'm trying to think that I wasn't sure how to approach.

00:58:34.60
Bill
Right.

00:58:34.86
Mike
I mean, I wasn't sure how to approach any of them. um

00:58:39.77
Bill
See, again, write this down again. That's a great fucking answer. It's just a great answer.

00:58:44.23
Mike
I mean, honestly, you know, when I first started working my nine step, why the fuck? No, I didn't know how to approach anybody. Um, yeah, you just start doing it.

00:58:53.45
Bill
hey

00:58:53.58
Mike
Um,

00:58:56.15
Mike
all but I, I know what you mean, you know, like if there's, if there was someone in particular that, you know, I, I didn't know how I was going, you know, that I, I fucking hurt in one way or another.

00:58:59.36
Bill
Right.

00:59:08.03
Mike
And I wasn't sure how it was going to. Yeah, you know, right. Um, uh, not really, not, not really.

00:59:19.64
Mike
Um, thankfully not really.

00:59:22.81
Bill
Right.

00:59:23.22
Mike
Um, you know, I mean, the people, maybe the, the few that I might have a problem, you know, cause I'm clearly not done with my night step, never will be.

00:59:36.27
Bill
Right.

00:59:36.63
Mike
Um, You know, there are people that I'm sure if I was given the opportunity to approach them, again, I wouldn't know how to fucking do it. ah But thankfully, ah the people that that I was still that I still am in contact with or was still in contact when I started doing the ah night step.

00:59:59.97
Mike
Um, no, I knew how to approach them because I still had some sort of relationship with them. You know, even if it was horrible, cause of course it was cause it was, you know, a relationship that they had to have with me.

01:00:09.64
Bill
Right.

01:00:13.28
Mike
Um, as someone who hadn't was just starting to work their nine steps.

01:00:16.68
Bill
Yeah.

01:00:18.57
Mike
So clearly not hadn't been sober all that long. Um, Yeah. Shit. No. Um, yeah. I'm sure there, there are people on my, on my eight step list that, um, I would have some real difficulty, um, mustering up whatever fuck I had to muster to, to walk up to him and go, Hey, um, right.

01:00:42.00
Mike
But, you know, um, those people, I probably never would be able to make a, uh, you know, do a night step properly with them. Um, but that's okay. You know, um, yeah.

01:00:51.82
Bill
Right.

01:00:53.86
Mike
You know, but again, the the people that that were immediate that that I, you know, got the early stuff out of the way with. um Yeah. You know, I just fucking did it because I had to.

01:01:04.99
Bill
Right.

01:01:05.15
Mike
um Yeah. So no. um Yeah. There are people on that a step that I'm sure. I would have some difficulty with, but um thankfully, the the actual people that I could ah do a night step with, no.

01:01:19.98
Mike
I just fucking did it. Again, wasn't always comfortable. you know It's not fucking supposed to be comfortable. i Not for me. um you know I have to try to make it as comfortable as I can for them.

01:01:31.53
Mike
But um yeah, but yeah it wasn't comfortable for me, and that's OK because it's not fucking supposed to be. It's not about me.

01:01:37.72
Bill
Right.

01:01:38.92
Mike
You know that again byproduct it gets to be for me eventually once I do it, but um it's not for me. It's for them Hmm

01:01:46.10
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you know, the the thing of it is, is that at at the time, I think that for the most part, I don't know, i I think I was just so fucking clueless. It was just I didn't have a I mean, I didn't have enough. um I didn't know enough to to know that something was going to be difficult. But that the two that i um well but the one that always pops in top my hand i talked about it on here which i don't mind bringing it up again but um you know kathy's uh husband at the time but you know her ex-husband now mark um because i i didn't see him a lot he didn't you know always come out to ohio it wasn't like i'll make it i didn't want to do like a phone call it's like how do we do it i'd see him at christmas or whatever and it was never the right time because like again the whole point is that

01:02:10.49
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:02:27.37
Mike
Right.

01:02:28.65
Bill
You know, it's like, interrupt the holiday or take this very little time that the time wasn't right.

01:02:30.97
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:02:33.55
Bill
And it ended up just happening at Jody and James's wedding.

01:02:37.64
Mike
Right.

01:02:37.72
Bill
And it was a random conversation and we squared our shit away in about four minutes, you know, and that was when I was two and a half years old, you know,

01:02:41.99
Mike
Yup. Uh-huh.

01:02:46.51
Bill
or no, a little over two years sober at the time.

01:02:48.05
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:49.34
Bill
So it's, I mean, granted the two things were just for everyone else out there. I mean, if you're not part of a 12 step program, if nothing else in, I don't want to say in place of, but for the time being, if nothing else, if you don't have a chance to sit down with somebody, just living a better life and being a better person and, you know, actually taking that again, we always talk about it.

01:03:03.07
Mike
Hmm.

01:03:09.40
Bill
taking the action and just physically being a better individual people see that that in and of itself is that living amends that you can do right away right off the bat without having to like a sit down although you should still you know but but still you could do that um

01:03:13.51
Mike
Right. Right.

01:03:25.44
Bill
So I know he was seeing that and I mean we were getting along um But there was still that thing because we hadn't had the conversation but when we did it just it was very cool And you know again, it just it I didn't know what's gonna happen as we're sitting there, but in my head I'm just kind of like okay, here's the time boom, you know, it was just at a wedding You know the bands fucking playing and it's that and you know, literally pulled him up and you know, Yeah, I mean, to the point where, I mean, I did, I put my arm on his shoulder and, you know, basically talked into his ear and said, you know, said what i what I wanted to say, you know, and it was cool.

01:03:29.37
Mike
on Right. Yeah.

01:03:47.69
Mike
Little musical accompaniment.

01:03:55.83
Mike
sir

01:04:00.68
Bill
And the other one, um you know, with ah with Derek's mom, Dawn, um I mean, that's my son's mom for everyone. I know I've talked about her enough, but that just happened because same deal, you know, I was in Ohio, I had the back to Wisconsin.

01:04:07.04
Mike
Right. Right.

01:04:15.05
Bill
I was talking about coming back to her in this email conversation and just in this middle of emailing back and forth about getting these things set up, all of a sudden I'm like, oh shit, I'm in the middle of an immense in an email.

01:04:28.49
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:04:30.07
Bill
and And that's about how we handle it.

01:04:31.61
Mike
Uh

01:04:32.49
Bill
And when but I saw her at one point, whether it was that trip or whenever it was, face to face, I know I had a conversation, something along the lines of, you know, any other questions, whatever.

01:04:42.75
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:42.80
Bill
And she's like, you know what, she goes, I, ah she goes, I don't mean this in a bad way.

01:04:46.51
Mike
who

01:04:47.13
Bill
I have no desire whatsoever to to talk about it. She goes, we're good, you know, and she said, but

01:04:50.70
Mike
yeah Right.

01:04:56.25
Mike
see Right.

01:04:58.01
Bill
As long as you keep doing what you're doing, we're good.

01:05:01.11
Mike
Right.

01:05:01.20
Bill
If you don't, you're done.

01:05:03.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:03.90
Bill
She's like, not only are we not good, but at the time, you know, my son was a minor. He's, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old, you know?

01:05:09.28
Mike
ah Oh.

01:05:09.92
Bill
And, um you know, if she ever happens to listen to any of these things, I know I've said it before, Um, thank you and I thank her for, you know, for taking that stance with me.

01:05:18.12
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:05:19.52
Bill
I needed it from somebody like that.

01:05:21.50
Mike
Absolutely.

01:05:21.70
Bill
It meant something. Her, her words to this day mean something, whether they're, you know, I've had gotten a bad word from her in a long, long time, thankfully.

01:05:25.62
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:05:29.05
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:05:31.09
Bill
But you know, when I, when I get good words from her, it means a lot to me, you know?

01:05:33.93
Mike
Right. Exactly. Well, you haven't given her a reason to give you a bad word.

01:05:38.14
Bill
Right.

01:05:38.46
Mike
Again, byproduct, man.

01:05:39.45
Bill
Right. right But I mean, literally, what i what I said to begin with though, I just i think i was I was too fucking clueless to be afraid. I just i knew these things had to be done.

01:05:48.25
Mike
Right.

01:05:49.39
Bill
and And as I ran across people over the years, like you said, you know this nine step thing is never done, you know you run across somebody and the way I approached it was, i would just it was by standard almost like my standard line of people.

01:05:53.04
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:05:55.91
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.

01:06:02.76
Bill
It's like, okay, um when you have a minute, I owe you a conversation.

01:06:06.81
Mike
great ah Right.

01:06:07.30
Bill
And people are like, no, you don't. I'm like, can I do. you know if you If you give me a minute, I do. I did that with my with my daughter's mom.

01:06:12.65
Mike
Right.

01:06:14.33
Bill
I did that with two friends friends that I could think off the top of my head, my old boss, who I went up ended up going back to work for and you know all these different things.

01:06:18.15
Mike
ah huh Right. Right.

01:06:22.26
Bill
And that's all it is. I i owe you a conversation. I didn't say, ah by the way, can we schedule a time to sit down to make amends?

01:06:27.39
Mike
Right. Yes. he

01:06:32.23
Bill
I just told him, I owe you a conversation. That's it.

01:06:34.19
Mike
Yeah.

01:06:34.46
Bill
I owe you something. That's it.

01:06:35.81
Mike
Yes, I do. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And that's, that's as simple as that. That's, it's pretty much all the dine step is, man. Look, I, I owe you something, you know, um, and then it's up to them to either accept it or reject it.

01:06:47.86
Mike
and Right.

01:06:49.64
Bill
Right, right.

01:06:49.65
Mike
But you've, you've done it. So there you go.

01:06:52.45
Bill
Yeah, exactly. It's, ah I tell you one thing, you know, and um I don't know, it said it can be scary, you know, daunting if you really think about it, but but seriously, I just, I never, I don't think I ever took the time.

01:07:03.30
Bill
It was the, you know, doing doing the four step, the the fifth step is daunting only because you don't know what you're stepping into and it's this formalized thing. Whether people do it with their sponsor, like we did with a priest or something like that, it's it's it doesn't happen randomly.

01:07:14.23
Mike
Yup.

01:07:16.18
Bill
you You're literally, you're You're consciously making an appointment, quote unquote, to sit down with somebody to do this thing. And that's a little bit daunting. I guess that's the only way I can put it, right?

01:07:25.61
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I'm making an appointment to spill my guts.

01:07:32.48
Bill
To God myself and to another human being.

01:07:36.39
Mike
That's right. Yeah.

01:07:38.69
Bill
yeah

01:07:38.71
Mike
I'm making an appointment to tell some another human being what a fucking asshole I was. What a piece of shit I was.

01:07:46.31
Bill
ah Right, yeah.

01:07:47.09
Mike
Yup. okay

01:07:49.31
Bill
And yeah, by I don't know, by the time you get to the ninth step again, none of none of these things that that we know. But even if, again, if anyone out there, if you're on a toll stop program, youre if you're new, you're gonna get to the point where you're you're gonna have to you know make some amends or make some apologies to people.

01:08:02.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:08:02.58
Bill
And you know just, ah it's it's it's good. it's that it It seems like it might be, that freaks everyone out, I suppose, if you sit there and think about it, but don't.

01:08:10.47
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:08:11.29
Bill
The time will happen.

01:08:11.59
Mike
Don't Yeah, don't think about it.

01:08:12.90
Bill
yeah

01:08:12.95
Mike
it's It's going to happen. Do it and then it's over with and you're free. Yay.

01:08:17.66
Bill
exactly yeah pure you know what and that's a great point you are free that's the best way to put it

01:08:22.76
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:08:24.27
Bill
All right. So one other thing, um, kind of, ah it wasn't along the immense line of things, but the other thought that I had along that timeframe. So, um, you know, we talk about, you know, obviously prayer meditation, blah, blah, blah. You, you know, you're the atheist that actually prays twice a day.

01:08:36.41
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:36.73
Bill
Um, when you came into the Keating center, did you, did you need to, and um this may sound weird, but I, did you need to learn or, you know, kind of develop a way to pray or did you know what to do right away?

01:08:48.07
Mike
Oh, absolutely. No, no, no, no.

01:08:49.38
Bill
Okay.

01:08:50.27
Mike
I didn't know how to do any of this shit. If I did, I wouldn't have fucking been there. Um, no, I had to develop, um, and ah again, you know, very personal thing, but yes, I had to develop a way.

01:08:55.54
Bill
good point

01:09:06.24
Mike
to pray that was genuine, um you know, that meant something. I mean, because, yeah, again, you know, I'm doing it out to the ether and to avoid.

01:09:15.72
Bill
Eh,

01:09:16.05
Mike
And that's fine. But yes, I had to develop a way and in my mind and my heart and my soul, even though that doesn't exist to.

01:09:21.86
Bill
good point.

01:09:28.51
Mike
right to make it meaningful. And and yes, it it took time. It took work. You know, I did it wrong sometimes. So then i'd I'd hit on something that felt good and went, Oh, Hey, that works.

01:09:39.17
Mike
I could do that.

01:09:40.33
Bill
Right.

01:09:40.37
Mike
You know, right? Yeah. Oh, a definite process. Like all the rest of this shit. Absolutely. Absolutely. My, my prayer life, if you will. Um, yeah, I had to develop it.

01:09:50.78
Mike
I had to work at it to make it something that, not only worked, but, um, that, that, that meant something. And yes, it definitely does now, you know, and again, it's real personal and I'm not going to fucking tell you people what exactly it is.

01:10:00.31
Bill
Right.

01:10:05.22
Mike
Uh, you know, but I will tell you that I do it and I developed it and I worked at it. And, um, clearly it's effective because here I am, you know, 14 and a half years later, fucking sober, which is not my natural state.

01:10:17.76
Bill
Right.

01:10:20.69
Bill
And you know, it's, it's so funny because, um, the, I mean, I went to church as a kid, we did Sunday school, you know, I went to Catholic churches with people that we knew and friends and watch all that shit.

01:10:26.68
Mike
Oh, yeah, me too.

01:10:33.17
Mike
Right.

01:10:34.10
Bill
Um, you know, but I never prayed, you know, and then, um, I remember being in a group.

01:10:34.12
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:39.77
Bill
um at the Keating Center very, very early. And, you know, the same thing. I mean, I i didn't want to ask because I'm like, how do you pray? I mean, what do what what do you do?

01:10:46.62
Mike
yeah Right.

01:10:47.60
Bill
You know, but somebody did somebody. I don't know if you remember that, but there was somebody in a group that asked that question.

01:10:53.44
Mike
Right.

01:10:53.88
Bill
I don't remember what the answer was.

01:10:55.94
Mike
right

01:10:56.12
Bill
But I was just like, in my head, I'm like, oh, thank God somebody answered or asked that question because I remember getting some direction.

01:11:00.54
Mike
Right.

01:11:03.12
Bill
And and to to your point, we've talked about it before. We know people, good friends of ours that that pray together and pray openly and do all those different things.

01:11:11.02
Mike
sir is Right.

01:11:11.91
Bill
And it's not my deal. That's very personal and private to me. And i'll i no problem whatsoever, ah people know that I pray, but I do it on my on my own.

01:11:21.43
Mike
Yup.

01:11:22.81
Bill
I'll go sit in the fucking bathroom and pray because it's mine. you know It's my time and it's my thing.

01:11:25.69
Mike
Yup.

01:11:27.80
Bill
And I think to begin with, all that I did, which is kind of what, i probably what my prayers are more now, is it's just, I'm having, like you said, I'm having a conversation out loud with myself.

01:11:37.74
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:11:38.58
Bill
you know And wherever it goes, whoever's listening to it, it doesn't fucking matter because it means something to me.

01:11:44.04
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:11:44.30
Bill
you know And I think that's the point, right?

01:11:46.58
Mike
Right. Yeah, I mean, you know, I've talked about it on here. I mean, you know, rip the simple way to describe what I do is I say please in the morning and thank you at night. um You know, I mean, and that's pretty much it.

01:11:56.44
Bill
Right.

01:11:58.44
Mike
And it's it's ah it's a focusing. It's ah it's it's taking the time out to

01:12:00.66
Bill
Right.

01:12:03.73
Mike
direct my thoughts in certain directions and and yeah you know again in the morning please you know remember what the fuck yeah I am and what I have to do what I'm capable of and all that and what I what I need to do to um to retard that to arrest that um

01:12:13.76
Bill
right

01:12:22.18
Bill
Right.

01:12:22.78
Mike
Yeah. You know, and then at night being grateful, um, is, is, you know, another day and I, you know, the people in my life and yeah, I mean, that's, that's the basics of what I do. And again, that works, you know, there's little tweaks in there and the little personal things, but yeah, basically remind myself what I am in the morning. And remember that I can't do this on my own because I never fucking could. And I never can.

01:12:46.66
Mike
And, um, you know, and then be grateful at night, be truly grateful for, it you know, something in my day and the people in my life. And then I'm done.

01:12:56.79
Bill
Right.

01:12:57.28
Mike
Yeah.

01:12:57.95
Bill
Yeah. And it just, ah it's still, it it makes me laugh every once in a while that, um, cause again, I don't think normal people have to have to wake up in the morning and say, Hey, now you know who you are.

01:13:04.15
Mike
instance Right.

01:13:07.85
Bill
Right.

01:13:08.19
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:13:09.15
Bill
You know what you can do and you know what you can't do today.

01:13:10.65
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:13:11.03
Bill
And then it I go on, Hey, listen, motherfucker. Um, say thank you. Uh, you gotta be, gotta be grateful for this shit, you know?

01:13:14.56
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:13:17.42
Bill
And it just, it doesn't cracks me up, but I mean, it's, uh, I don't care.

01:13:18.06
Mike
Mm.

01:13:20.54
Bill
You know, again, I've talked about it all already, you know, the readings and the prayers that I do in the morning literally takes me exactly 15 minutes at night when I do my and I'll do my 10 step in my prayers.

01:13:27.35
Mike
Right.

01:13:31.13
Bill
It doesn't take more than 10 minutes if that you know, so 25 minutes out of a day if I don't go to a meeting or I don't do this um you or anything like that literally as far as focus time.

01:13:33.09
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:13:36.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:42.90
Bill
Oh, I get to spend 25 minutes.

01:13:46.31
Mike
Right.

01:13:47.86
Bill
Oh,

01:13:50.41
Bill
which is just, it's stupid, but like like you said, it's the it's a matter of being grateful. And you know what? The thing of it is that just in this busyness of life and and all those sort of things, and it's so hard sometimes to, at least for me, you know to to remember, you just got this going on, you're trying to work out this, blah, blah, blah, whatever, all this shit whirling around in our lives, to just sit back and and recognize the things that, okay, listen asshole,

01:14:16.72
Bill
you know Look at all these things you have, forget about what you don't have, which I don't do that much anymore.

01:14:21.45
Mike
Right.

01:14:21.83
Bill
because you know And um again, enjoying a 15 minute moment moment, looking at ah just a fucking body of water. you know um Those things bring me so much, it's the peace.

01:14:27.96
Mike
Right.

01:14:30.46
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:14:31.71
Bill
you know It's the the peace and the joy and whatever. And I posted on Facebook the other day, I think it was, was it Monday or was it Tuesday? Oh yeah, it was, it was Tuesday. um I had to make a quick phone call at checking on something I was doing so I was actually on the phone when Kimmy tried to not FaceTime so it's not iPhones but whatever it is video chat with me and I just text her I'm like hey I'm on the phone whatever and she's like she's like well Ali wanted to call you so you know we we did and I'm like I'm like I won't be long you know type of thing and it was I don't know ten minutes whatever but so out of the fucking blue

01:14:48.71
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:14:54.69
Mike
Hehehe. Uh-huh.

01:14:57.95
Mike
Right.

01:15:01.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:03.10
Bill
my grandson, who's like two and a half years old, um wanted to call, each he's just, Kim, he's like, we weren't talking about you, nothing came up, whatever.

01:15:05.49
Mike
Right.

01:15:10.07
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:15:11.10
Bill
He just said, can we call grandpa?

01:15:12.79
Mike
Eh? Hehehehe.

01:15:14.43
Bill
And I'm like, what what the fuck more can I ask for?

01:15:16.82
Mike
Not a goddamn thing.

01:15:18.91
Bill
Yeah, I know, and i did I get out and he's yelling, he's screaming at at one point, I'm like, um'm like hey, he's like, huh? I said, you're really loud. He just starts laughing and goes out and doing whatever.

01:15:29.15
Bill
it yeah But I mean, seriously, I mean, what what more can I ask for?

01:15:32.07
Mike
Sure.

01:15:33.81
Bill
But then then I'm talking to Kimmy, he's kind of off watch and something or doing whatever.

01:15:37.35
Mike
sure

01:15:37.41
Bill
And she's like, ah she's like oh yeah, when the when she goes after you, text him or whatever, ah you know she said, I don't know, she told him I was gonna call back or whatever. And apparently he said he wanted to come to my house.

01:15:50.11
Mike
Hmm Right Grandpa's a hobo Sure Right and that's probably in his head when he was thinking yeah, I want to go there Yep

01:15:51.00
Bill
And I said, i said well, I don't have one. And she's like, well, I didn't i didn't say that. But she said she said, he's kind of far away right now. Which I'm like, yeah, probably a better way to put it. but

01:16:02.60
Bill
Yeah. You know, the funny part is, is because, um, I mean, he was, he was at that Airbnb up in Wisconsin. So, you know, I mean, I, he had fun there, you know, so he did that. We went out.

01:16:13.93
Bill
yeah Probably like, how I wanna go to that place again, which, oh, the funny part too. See again, it's ah the video chat that we're doing. And I was sitting in in here and then i said I said, ooh, I said, let me let me show you something. So I went out, I pointed my phone and it was still light out. you know So um I slowly you know kind of panned it towards the, you know like off of the porch and stuff like that. And I can hear him say, he's like, ooh, that's big.

01:16:40.61
Bill
Kimmy's like, that looks really peaceful, but I guess he's just looking at it because he sees the area with the woods and whatever. and yeah was just it was It was so nice, but I mean, again, i you know i don't i can't none of us can put a price on something like that.

01:16:48.62
Mike
nice

01:16:53.87
Mike
No, hell no.

01:16:54.54
Bill
you know Like a little two and a half year old guy I wanna call grandpa.

01:16:58.35
Mike
Uh huh.

01:16:59.55
Bill
like Jesus Christ, what the fuck? what the What the fuck did I deserve or do to deserve that? I know what I did.

01:17:05.26
Mike
Nothing.

01:17:05.68
Bill
you Yeah, I mean,

01:17:06.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, you know, yeah, a little bit, but yeah, for the most part, no, you had, you didn't have a goddamn thing to do with it.

01:17:13.84
Bill
Right?

01:17:14.03
Mike
It's just, uh, yeah, that's fucking wonderful.

01:17:18.13
Bill
Yeah, I was just going to say, yeah, ah the only thing I did, I mean, first of all, you know, i'm i I do the work I need to do every day, but all I all i did was, you know, again, i I follow directions in this path of other people.

01:17:23.56
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:26.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:28.63
Bill
And then all these, again, all these good things, you know, these these good things come become my way.

01:17:30.97
Mike
Yeah. You baked a cake.

01:17:33.58
Bill
I did somebody gave me a box I follow the instructions and then I get to I get to eat cake with my grandson.

01:17:35.53
Mike
Yep. Uh-huh.

01:17:39.23
Mike
That's right. he

01:17:40.67
Bill
But but no I mean again what the fuck man I mean it just I don't again I don't know much I can't ask for gas for much more than that you know but um all right hang on one second here so I gotta we got our remember when I read the like the console results to you the one time when our search results

01:17:46.41
Mike
Mm-mm.

01:17:58.44
Mike
Uh, yeah, sure.

01:18:00.38
Bill
Yeah, hang on.

01:18:01.19
Mike
and No, I don't.

01:18:01.60
Bill
Well, okay, so we we get these and this is for our website, the sober and aperture website.

01:18:06.84
Mike
Okay.

01:18:07.07
Bill
So it always gives us like the performance for the last for the last month. And sometimes it gets more detailed than others, but i I don't really understand what you know, what's what sometimes but um so first of all, so on the on the positive side, we had

01:18:20.23
Mike
Yes.

01:18:21.95
Bill
74 clicks on our website, which is, I mean, for a small website like ours is actually kind of good. 19 pages with first impressions, meaning that that's usually new traffic, which is also good.

01:18:32.84
Mike
Okay.

01:18:33.97
Bill
um Over 5,000 impressions, meaning that, you know, somehow out to people on the web, over 5,000 getting in front of people.

01:18:34.78
Mike
Cool.

01:18:41.46
Bill
But then here's where, like last time, it showed, you know, episode pages and things like that. But so here's where it talks about our searches. Okay. Remember our our growing or our ah queries, how people found us.

01:18:53.48
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah. what Yes.

01:18:56.85
Bill
Yep.

01:18:57.14
Mike
The pissing milfs are pissing matures.

01:18:59.77
Bill
Same thing again, matures with an S piss mature dot.com um pissing matures.

01:19:02.96
Mike
Ah, we put piss in the title of one episode, what a year and a half ago.

01:19:09.20
Bill
ah This is how people are fucking finding us still.

01:19:14.81
Bill
I know. Yeah, it was our our piss piss drawers.

01:19:17.27
Mike
Yeah. Yes.

01:19:18.81
Bill
Yeah.

01:19:19.05
Mike
Right. Yeah. I know.

01:19:22.98
Bill
I know.

01:19:23.22
Mike
Mature piss.

01:19:24.50
Bill
Yeah, I again, it took me when I remember the first time we read that whenever that was at six months, a year ago or whatever the deal was. um Neither one of us could figure it out.

01:19:34.63
Bill
And then, you know, obviously, it you know, it came to light what what it was.

01:19:37.17
Mike
Right.

01:19:37.35
Bill
But yeah, it literally was from one episode is when I talked about pissing in in the drawer and you pissed in the closet.

01:19:39.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:43.01
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:43.75
Bill
and that That was what it was from one episode, one short, probably five or 10 minute story.

01:19:44.05
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:19:47.98
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. But again, we, we titled the episode, we put the the word piss in an episode title.

01:19:54.25
Bill
yeah and no

01:19:55.56
Mike
And so yes, the, yeah our internet overlords, uh, have, uh, yes, directed that out into the universe.

01:20:05.85
Mike
And so yes, now we're mature piss.

01:20:08.89
Bill
I know it just it cracks me up because I still I mean if if you were just again if you were this person out there looking for you know that that type of pleasure and he ended up with you know these two fucking Yahoo's hi there yeah it's ah yeah it's not quite what you expected so

01:20:10.72
Mike
Dot com.

01:20:19.84
Mike
I nope.

01:20:27.60
Bill
Oh man, it just, I don't know, it just, it cracks it cracks me up every time.

01:20:30.68
Mike
All

01:20:31.40
Bill
So, all right, um I'm gonna read, just got one more, ah one quick thing here before we wrap up, figuring we haven't, we've talked about this other garbage, let's talk about something from one of of the readings, so.

01:20:34.56
Mike
right.

01:20:40.58
Mike
Okay.

01:20:41.47
Bill
um All right, i and I think we touched on this before, but it came up again in a reading or something like that, but being alone versus being lonely.

01:20:49.72
Mike
Mmm.

01:20:49.79
Bill
So to you, what is the difference? And what if what do you do if you're ever if you are ever feeling lonely, what do you do? So again, being alone versus lonely, and then what you think the difference is, and then what you would do if you ever feel lonely.

01:20:58.68
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

01:21:05.09
Mike
Right. ah Well, I mean the difference, I like being alone. First off, oh I really, really do. oh Probably more than most people and that's okay. um That's why I chose the career I chose because I'm basically solitary most of the day. oh You know, I live a alone. Well,

01:21:25.59
Mike
used to. ah Which yes, I have a family member that lives with me now and it's wonderful. um But yes, you know, I like being alone. um Lonely. um Lonely is is that that isolation man that that, you know, when I was Well, I couldn't connect with other human beings.

01:21:51.52
Mike
I couldn't because I was in the depths of my addiction and I couldn't genuinely connect with anyone because I was altered and, and, and obsessed and with a thing and, um, right, you know, so I couldn't connect with other people at all.

01:22:11.40
Mike
Um, I'm never lonely anymore. I'm, you know, I haven't been lonely in,

01:22:14.30
Bill
Right.

01:22:17.95
Mike
fucking over 14 years. Um, because, you know, not that, well, you know, whatever the first year and a half, we were, you know, surrounded constantly and that's okay.

01:22:26.83
Bill
Right.

01:22:31.10
Mike
Oh my, you know, I personally needed that. I needed to be immersed back in with human beings. Um, cause I had been isolated for so long. Um, but yeah, you know, uh,

01:22:44.36
Mike
that's that's what a loan is or lonely. lee Um and I'm just not anymore because I can I can pick up a phone. I can hell I can walk out my door. I can again walk up to that counter and a fucking truck stop and and genuinely connect with another human being. it It's just for a couple of seconds and it's not really all that meaningful. Um I can do that today cuz that's who I am, thanks to this program.

01:23:11.65
Mike
um I can genuinely walk up to someone and say, hey, how you doing and kind of mean it and, you know, have that connection with another human being for a couple of seconds.

01:23:21.97
Bill
Right.

01:23:22.04
Mike
So I can't be lonely anymore. um And I like being alone. I love being solid solitary just who I am um What was ah the last part of that?

01:23:32.31
Mike
No, what do I do if I am right if if?

01:23:32.72
Bill
um Yeah, what do you do if? yeah

01:23:36.05
Mike
um Again, you know, it's pretty simple if I ever got to the point where I was lonely um First of all, I'm doing some serious shit wrong if I am

01:23:46.14
Bill
Yeah.

01:23:47.94
Mike
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's again, the small interactions I have, you know, I, you know, once a week we do this, um, once a week I go to a meeting and, and, and talk, you know, connect with those people, um, talk to my girlfriend every night.

01:24:02.96
Mike
Um, you know, I, I see family members every day, almost, um, you know, I connect with people genuinely, constantly through my day. So how the fuck can I get lonely?

01:24:14.63
Bill
Right.

01:24:14.74
Mike
I can't. Yeah.

01:24:16.91
Bill
Yeah, and you know what the and it's kind of funny as you were as you were talking about that, that um up until, I mean, I lived alone you know from for years.

01:24:24.56
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:24:25.87
Bill
I mean, obviously before I got sober, but you figure from you know the time I moved back to Wisconsin, which was 11 years ago, you know up until two years ago when I went down to Indiana, um you know so nine years, you know I lived alone.

01:24:26.33
Mike
Right. Right.

01:24:31.26
Mike
Right. Exactly.

01:24:36.81
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:24:39.79
Bill
It wasn't like I, again,

01:24:40.43
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:24:42.10
Bill
My son, I went to work, I was around people and all those different things.

01:24:43.46
Mike
Sure. Right.

01:24:44.90
Bill
But I mean, I lived alone, you know, for nine years, you know, and as a sober individual, you know, it was fine.

01:24:47.89
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:24:51.13
Bill
And like you said, I mean, you spend a lot of time with you with your job and things like that.

01:24:56.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:24:56.92
Bill
I have become, I guess, more isolated is the wrong word, because I don't feel isolated.

01:25:01.91
Mike
Right.

01:25:02.21
Bill
But i I spend more time on my own now than I ever have in my life.

01:25:05.42
Mike
Uh huh.

01:25:08.00
Bill
i I work remote, you know I'm traveling all over to different places.

01:25:07.99
Mike
Right. Right.

01:25:11.82
Bill
um But i you know what, i don't I don't feel lonely.

01:25:15.12
Mike
Right.

01:25:15.29
Bill
I know what lonely feels like.

01:25:16.26
Mike
Right. isn

01:25:17.47
Bill
And the only thing that I thought about when when you were talking about it is that, to me, lonely is being, um not wanting to be with yourself. you know Not wanting to be with your alone with your with your thoughts.

01:25:26.20
Mike
right

01:25:29.13
Bill
So being alone is one thing, but then being alone with yourself.

01:25:29.43
Mike
Hmm.

01:25:32.05
Bill
If you can't stand it, where you need other people,

01:25:34.94
Mike
Right.

01:25:35.26
Bill
It's almost like to distract you from the shit that you are, you know And and I like I think that's kind of what you're saying. You're not that way anymore And I sure as fuck don't feel that way anymore um But same deal, you know, I'm on the phone all goddamn day.

01:25:42.79
Mike
Right.

01:25:48.33
Mike
Hmm.

01:25:49.53
Bill
I'm talking to people all fucking day Granted, it's at a work thing. It's not like shooting a shit with people or anything like that.

01:25:53.93
Mike
Right.

01:25:54.61
Bill
But same thing, you and I get our fix. do with that i get ah I get a fix on you know these things every week doing this with you.

01:26:01.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:02.80
Bill
And you know a little bit of social media chit-chat with people, that's fine.

01:26:05.97
Mike
Sure.

01:26:06.36
Bill
Texting back and forth, that's fine. if i If I need to be around people where I want to have interaction, anywhere I'm at, I'll find a meeting.

01:26:08.74
Mike
Right.

01:26:14.52
Bill
you know But like when you said um what you would do, you're like, first of all, I must be doing something wrong. And that ah that you know kind of clicked.

01:26:21.75
Mike
right

01:26:24.18
Bill
i mean So if I felt like going to a meeting, it would just be like, you know what? I could i could use that. um Not that I'm lonely or whatever, but i wouldn't I wouldn't mind a little bit of you know human interaction, chitchat, this and that.

01:26:32.18
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. Right.

01:26:36.60
Bill
you know soak in the atmosphere of a meeting because I enjoy it. um But I don't need to get out because I feel lonely. I guess if that makes sense.

01:26:43.64
Mike
Right.

01:26:44.98
Bill
you know

01:26:45.54
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I hadn't even thought about that. You know, again, uh, my angle was, you know, I actually genuinely connect with humans, even if it's very surface.

01:26:57.39
Mike
So I don't need that, but yeah. Um, Can't sit with yourself man. You're fucking so being alone as you don't even have yourself Yeah, that's fucking lonely.

01:27:06.42
Bill
Right.

01:27:08.35
Mike
You don't have anything man. You can't connect with another human being and you can't connect with yourself Fuck that's damn. I forgot about that part Yeah, I'm glad I forgot about that part, but thank you for reminding me fuck

01:27:22.54
Bill
Yeah, but I mean, that's that's what when you were talking about that, that was trying to think of what what does lonely even feel like anymore? Because, I mean, it's, it's another thing. I mean, I could go a different direction being from a companionship from like, having yeah a significant other type of thing.

01:27:35.64
Mike
Sure.

01:27:36.15
Bill
There's a there's I enjoy that type of companionship.

01:27:38.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:40.06
Bill
It's not a loneliness type of thing, but I enjoy it. So I would say I would miss, I miss those interactions being in that type of, that type of situation, but that's not loneliness.

01:27:48.07
Mike
Sure.

01:27:49.01
Bill
You know, um, there's just that different type of that, that interaction is different than what you and I, you know, having this, that or whatever, blah, blah, blah.

01:27:49.11
Mike
Now.

01:27:54.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:56.24
Bill
Um, you know, but, but yeah, it just say made me think about it.

01:27:58.17
Mike
Hmm.

01:27:58.76
Bill
I'm like, fuck, the only way that I would be lonely is yeah. If I, if I couldn't sit here by myself, you know,

01:28:04.32
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah. Don't even have that.

01:28:06.90
Bill
yeah

01:28:07.46
Mike
Fuck.

01:28:09.15
Bill
Yeah, which I mean, again, and i spend I spend a lot of time, you know, as well, again, given your situation, I probably spend more time, you know, by myself these days than you do, you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't even, I never, I never think about it until we have a conversation like this.

01:28:19.50
Mike
Right.

01:28:24.42
Bill
It doesn't be like, fuck man, I'm always by myself, man.

01:28:26.85
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:28:27.46
Bill
What's going on here? yeah I'm like, ah even again, have an interaction sometimes out out in the, you know, the hikes and stuff like that. Oh, real quick.

01:28:36.22
Mike
Hmm.

01:28:36.37
Bill
This one place that I went in, I really wanted to go because I heard about it. And there was this, it was one where I went on, if you saw the pictures of the the big cliff and the bluffs and all this different thing.

01:28:44.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:45.79
Bill
Holy fuck. That's that's all I could say they had fences up there. You could tell because they're like, I mean, this is these are like 750 foot cliffs, you know Fucking major you're in five thousand elevation of five thousand, you know feet and whatever fucking cool, but um There was first of all the parking lot is small ish So when I pulled in I got really lucky that somebody was leaving pulled in when I was pulling out people are just like fucking packed in this and that whatever and And then, I mean, again, it was a Sunday, it's Labor Day weekend, blah, blah, blah.

01:28:53.27
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah, right, right. Hmm.

01:29:10.86
Mike
Hmm.

01:29:14.82
Mike
Right.

01:29:15.53
Bill
um Families with their kids, it was so many fucking people.

01:29:19.88
Mike
Right.

01:29:20.66
Bill
you know just but and It's fine. ah because if people are out I mean, people are out having a great time. Their kids are having a great time. Everyone was cool.

01:29:26.81
Mike
right

01:29:27.38
Bill
Everyone was listening to anyone. I was just like, I can't believe you're acting that way. But there's a lot of this hiking stuff.

01:29:30.94
Mike
Hmm.

01:29:32.82
Bill
I enjoy that solitude um because I just get to kind of like just you soak in. you know I don't know. um But even it was cool. you know was But there was a lot of people.

01:29:41.85
Mike
Right.

01:29:41.97
Bill
it's just like you get up to a certain place and i'm sitting there trying to figure out how can i take a picture where could i take a picture where there's no fucking people in it because every one of those pictures i took i promise you to the left of me to the right of me or behind me were a minimum of five to probably 15 people

01:29:49.65
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:55.56
Mike
hu Wow.

01:29:59.60
Bill
at a minimum, you know, at least three to five, you know, which again was fine.

01:30:01.09
Mike
ah hey

01:30:03.38
Bill
Everyone was cool. But even having those interactions, you know, every once in a while you just stop and somebody's like, Hey, how you doing? You know, it's like, Oh, this and that, you know, you hear some of these and you know, just as little, because everyone's out, you're, you're out there.

01:30:09.42
Mike
Right.

01:30:13.18
Bill
It's like going to a meeting, you know, you're out, everyone's out there doing the same goddamn thing.

01:30:16.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:30:16.88
Bill
It's sort of the same purpose. You know, we're out there looking at shit.

01:30:18.30
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

01:30:21.47
Bill
so but yeah I don't know it just that that popped into my head that and I know we've talked about it before because you specifically brought it up at one point saying there was a huge difference which you know between lonely and being alone and I just did again it popped into my head somehow probably from a reading and um you know I thought it might be good to touch on it for a minute so I'm glad we did so okay

01:30:31.87
Mike
Right. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, cool.

01:30:43.27
Bill
All right, man, so um since both of us are on real time, it's real late, you know, so and it's a it's a fucking fucking Thursday.

01:30:48.25
Mike
It's getting there.

01:30:49.85
Bill
You don't have to work tomorrow. I do. I got a short day, but it does.

01:30:51.58
Mike
Yeah, but I still got to get up early because I got a plane to catch. So yep.

01:30:54.91
Bill
but

01:30:55.42
Mike
yeah

01:30:55.84
Bill
All right, so well, you know what? What do you think? We've we've done some work here tonight. It's getting late.

01:30:59.38
Mike
We have.

01:31:00.81
Bill
What do you think? Time time to get the fuck out of here.

01:31:03.15
Mike
It is that time. It's time, kids. Thank you for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. Always be kind to each other. Be good to each other. Go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time to the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:31:29.85
Mike
And now it is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever. My kind of town.

01:31:50.79
Bill
And I'm telling you, I love the double closing. I guess i haven't checked I haven't checked with G yet again to see if she actually listened to it. But yeah, thank you thank you again, G, for giving Mike that extra that extra little piece to add to our lovely little podcast.

01:32:04.36
Mike
Uh huh.

01:32:05.24
Bill
so All right, man, we'll have ah have a wonderful time. i'll I'll be in the car for 10 ungodly hours, and not ungodly hours.

01:32:08.82
Mike
I will.

01:32:11.98
Bill
You know what I mean. I get to listen to Moon and Mark and all these different people.

01:32:14.39
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:15.18
Bill
So it'll all be good. But yeah, so I know.

01:32:16.98
Mike
Absolutely.

01:32:18.92
Bill
i know well Well, first of all, love you, brother.

01:32:20.97
Mike
Love you too.

01:32:22.14
Bill
I know we'll talk soon.

01:32:23.40
Mike
We will.

01:32:24.49
Bill
All right, man, bye.

01:32:25.16
Mike
All right. Bye.