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This week it's back to the guys in the picture. Yep, it's Mike and Bill this week.
Mike started off with his reading and it was a simple one, but very important to us. Keeping out of our own heads, not focusing on ourselves and accomplishing that by helping others. That should be an easy thing to do, but it takes work. It was a good conversation.
Then we were all over the place. Dr. Sarah wrap up, a podcast and an audio book, a rock 'n' roll show, baby mamas, leading and following, a creepy story, caffeine withdrawal, always and never, things that make us happy and road rage.
We also found out last week that a buddy of ours died. He was at The Keating Center when we were, back in 2010 and he will be missed.
Enjoy the episode.
Visit us
Store www.sobernotmatureshop.com
00:00:01.92
Bill
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And I was almost laughing doing this opening because I think about it, and I think we mentioned this before, but Mike and I get on here and rarely, what, five, 10% of the time?
00:00:14.48
Mike
Hmm.
00:00:19.95
Bill
um We'll have something to talk about that we probably could talk about on here, but it's nobody's fucking business, so we talk about things you know prior to, but...
00:00:20.11
Mike
Yeah.
00:00:25.81
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that means what? 95% of our lives we pretty much share on here.
00:00:32.33
Bill
yeah Well, yeah, because I mean, we are kind of an open book, so, you know, but there is, there's that, you know, 10% that we do this, I don't know, pre-show shit, whatever, like I was just saying, but what made me laugh about it is just that i I know, I listen to all these podcasts and so many times people are like, oh yeah, before we started recording and this and that, and quite honestly, ah there's been, I mean, how many times have we started talking about something?
00:00:35.56
Mike
Oh.
00:00:41.80
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:00:56.74
Bill
We're like, okay, shut up. Let's just start recording.
00:00:58.11
Mike
Right. Oh yeah.
00:00:59.15
Bill
This is, this is too,
00:00:59.45
Mike
Yeah. That pretty exactly, man. Yeah. We like, you know, we'll start saying something because we, we try to do a little pre-show or something and like, wait a minute. No, no, no. This is the podcast. Just fucking start recording.
00:01:10.40
Bill
Yeah, this is this isn't a secret. and Actually, yeah maybe some of the shit we're talking about might, some people might, at least we will find amusing. So, but yeah.
00:01:18.36
Mike
Right. Which is, which is the litmus test, right? Do we find it amusing? All right, then we'll put it on the fucking interwebs.
00:01:25.14
Bill
yeah didn't let everyone else make their fucking choices, right? So um yeah, you know, the one thing I did say was I said, you know, same day, different stuff or whatever.
00:01:28.33
Mike
Absolutely.
00:01:33.41
Bill
And you're like, yeah.
00:01:34.69
Mike
Yeah.
00:01:36.13
Bill
Okay. So um how was your week? I guess let's let's start off there.
00:01:39.07
Mike
yeah
00:01:39.17
Bill
Was it, was it, was it a week? You don't have to go into detail if you don't want to, but that, I guess that that made me think maybe you had kind of a week, huh?
00:01:45.95
Mike
It's, it's, just it's been a month. It's right.
00:01:48.16
Bill
Okay.
00:01:50.14
Mike
You know, the green day song keeps running through my head. Wake me up when September ends. Um, yeah, not just busy, you know, uh, it's home group anniversary month.
00:02:00.74
Mike
So I'm chairing this month. Um, we've got the Keating center fundraiser tomorrow, you know, started off the month with Chicago. I mean, it's all good shit. It's just, God damn it, man.
00:02:10.78
Mike
I just want to lay down and do nothing for awhile. But you know i i did it I did enough of that, so, you know, my previous life.
00:02:15.27
Bill
Well, but yeah, it's yeah and that that's the thing. yeah we yeah I don't know. if you know we We always joke about the fact that what do we get ah you know what will we do when we get sober and all that stuff.
00:02:27.53
Mike
Right.
00:02:28.64
Bill
And yeah, I mean, sometimes it's like, fuck, I'm tired or I don't want to get up early.
00:02:31.32
Mike
Hmm.
00:02:31.60
Bill
And I i do, I sometimes get up you know early when I'm traveling around because I want to go do shit. you know
00:02:37.00
Mike
Right.
00:02:37.43
Bill
um And I can't remember the last time that I've, the latest I'll sleep in is like eight o'clock. And that's when I'm around here.
00:02:42.76
Mike
Yeah.
00:02:43.35
Bill
Cause I really don't have any specific places to go type of thing. I mean, when I'm in Indiana, like I am now, but, um but it kind of led me to another thing.
00:02:46.89
Mike
Right.
00:02:51.34
Bill
And I made a note about this cause I was thinking that, okay, so, you know, the whole week thing. And I never thought that I would use this once in a calendar year, let alone twice in a couple of months.
00:03:01.88
Bill
But so, so Mike, as far as you know,
00:03:03.24
Mike
Yes.
00:03:05.56
Bill
Was anyone laying in wait in the bushes possibly this week, ah possibly attempting to assassinate you?
00:03:11.19
Mike
yeah ah Not to my knowledge, no.
00:03:15.87
Bill
yeah I was thinking too, you know, I didn't go anywhere this week. I mean, I went up to get pizza.
00:03:19.74
Mike
right
00:03:20.13
Bill
I suppose I go to the same place, you know, every week. So I suppose, but um again, not trying to make a complete joke out of it. It's just this, this world that I was like, when I heard about it, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me again?
00:03:27.89
Mike
ah
00:03:31.71
Mike
again
00:03:32.94
Bill
But um just real quick. And I'm only going to say one thing about the, these fucking candidates. Okay. So whenever, whenever the debate was on, whenever that was week or so, week and a half, whatever it was, I don't know what day it was.
00:03:42.36
Mike
ah Tuesday, I believe, but go ahead.
00:03:44.12
Bill
What was it this week?
00:03:45.35
Mike
Not our last ah week ago, Tuesday.
00:03:47.49
Bill
ah was it okay I was like, shit, it could have been three days ago for all I know, I don't know, time time flies.
00:03:50.40
Mike
yeah Yeah, right.
00:03:52.28
Bill
But um I was watching something and you know I've got my my Chromecast, it's like the the Google TV, so it's like a smart TV. So I pop out of whatever I'm watching and of course i I knew the debate was on but didn't think about it and I'm like, oh, well, let's just pop in to see what these fucking Nimrods are doing.
00:04:05.46
Bill
you know So i I don't think I watched it for more than, I was gonna say four minutes, maybe six or seven minutes, okay probably just enough to see.
00:04:05.81
Mike
ah first
00:04:13.25
Mike
Right.
00:04:14.93
Bill
I was gonna say, each one of them answer a question but i'll put it another way to have each one of them have a question posed to each one of them and then have the back and forth and i don't know what they think the word debate means um but but that's not what happens on whatever this thing is it's not a debate it's a matter of two people
00:04:22.19
Mike
Oh yeah.
00:04:33.65
Mike
see No.
00:04:38.13
Bill
running for a public office that are there to tell you what the other person is doing wrong or what the other person doesn't do.
00:04:43.28
Mike
Right.
00:04:46.14
Bill
I've done a little bit of research. I mean, we've we've seen the show with it with the one dude. We already saw that, so we know what he's about.
00:04:51.69
Mike
Hmm.
00:04:51.90
Bill
We've seen a little bit about the other one, obviously, because you know she's been around in this whole thing. But so done a little bit of research, blah, blah, blah. But quite honestly, I don't know what either one of them stand for. I know what the other ones don't stand for.
00:05:01.68
Mike
ah Themselves. They stand for themselves.
00:05:06.50
Bill
itd And you know what, you said it, I think last week when we were on with Dr. Sarah, um you know that you know Trump's a buffoon and and that sort of thing.
00:05:11.21
Mike
Yes.
00:05:14.27
Mike
yes
00:05:14.54
Bill
And I i agree. you know And that she's no better. you know I mean, she's just, yeah.
00:05:17.93
Mike
No, no, they're both idiots. I mean, you know, um all politicians are morons.
00:05:22.23
Bill
I know.
00:05:22.45
Mike
Otherwise they'd have real jobs.
00:05:24.45
Bill
I know, it just, it blows my mind and I'm like, there's no, that when Hillary and Trump were running back in what, 16, I think when the two of them ran.
00:05:31.84
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.
00:05:33.09
Bill
And they had that meme where this kid was about to put a knife or a fork into a socket. And the meme was, you know, choose your candidate. You know, it was what is the top socket or the bottom socket.
00:05:41.12
Mike
and Right. Yeah.
00:05:42.96
Bill
And I'm like, we're there again. You know, we're there again.
00:05:44.50
Mike
Yeah. Oh yeah.
00:05:44.88
Bill
So, but
00:05:45.89
Mike
We've been there for a long time.
00:05:47.46
Bill
I know, I know, but anyhow, just it it cracked me up. i just i Seriously, I thought to myself, i'm like this is I've never sat down to watch, again, I'm going to use huge air quotes, one of the debates, and I know what a debate a debate's supposed to be, and I know what the definition is, roughly, and that's not what I saw.
00:05:57.06
Mike
since
00:06:00.60
Mike
Right. Sure.
00:06:03.78
Bill
I'm just saying.
00:06:03.90
Mike
No. no yeah There was a baseball game on that night. and I flipped over a couple of times. I did get to see the dogs and cats live. That was kind of cool.
00:06:14.82
Bill
You know what? And I, I must've just, I must've just missed it cause I, I turned it, I turned it off. And then I was on either Instagram or Facebook shortly after that. I saw i'll start seeing all these dogs and cats things literally within like 10 or 15 minutes of the time.
00:06:25.31
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:06:28.38
Bill
I, I must've just missed it. So, um, then I, then I looked it up.
00:06:30.05
Mike
Yep.
00:06:31.60
Bill
I'm like, Oh, okay. And I've seen i've seen no some dude, some dude did the whole Trump thing and then did like music behind it, almost like a, like, like a rock opera type of thing.
00:06:34.62
Mike
Well, yeah.
00:06:38.65
Mike
Oh, yeah, there.
00:06:40.84
Bill
It was fucking hilarious. So.
00:06:42.02
Mike
Yeah, there's a good one. I like the Simpsons one, too. That was that was pretty good.
00:06:45.37
Bill
Oh, I haven't seen that one.
00:06:46.73
Mike
Yeah, the whorehouse, you know, down in Springfield.
00:06:46.81
Bill
I'll have to look that one up.
00:06:49.67
Mike
And yes, and then they they cut it in.
00:06:50.45
Bill
Oh, yeah.
00:06:51.68
Mike
And that's quite nice. yeah
00:06:54.72
Bill
I don't know, it just, again, we're obviously we' we don't talk about politics, we're doing it more just to make fun, but yeah, it just, I don't know, it's the you know the human experiences, it's crazy, it's crazy.
00:07:05.80
Bill
but um So anyhow, um I know we've got a lot to talk about. First of all, I want to hear, we can do it after the reading, but you went to a concert last night, I got a quick story about when I when i left ah last my last night in North Carolina,
00:07:12.68
Mike
Yeah, I did.
00:07:18.80
Bill
Couple other things we got a buddy of ours that we want to talk about I think and some other some other stuff But you know what we're oh my god, we're seven and a half minutes into this fucking thing already Now that's I'm sorry about that everyone that just listened to seven minutes of us talking about politics, I'm sorry, right Yeah, I will I don't think either one of us will ever apologize except for that we apologize for that that was that was uncalled for so That was um' um
00:07:27.40
Mike
Wow.
00:07:29.91
Mike
Good. yeah we we Yeah, I apologize too.
00:07:47.34
Mike
I know I didn't call for it.
00:07:49.01
Bill
Yeah, I know, and I started it, so I'm i'm upset with myself. There, I just spanked myself.
00:07:51.96
Mike
he There.
00:07:54.10
Bill
Sorry about that.
00:07:55.09
Mike
He flogged himself live on the air.
00:07:55.18
Bill
OK.
00:07:57.46
Bill
I did.
00:07:57.62
Mike
There you go folks. There's entertainment.
00:07:58.72
Bill
I did. All right, so let's let's get back to what whatever our normal structure is. I think we do a reading at some point, right?
00:08:05.18
Mike
We do. We do. Let's do a reading. Um, yeah. So, um, this is actually from keep it simple and it's from today because I thought it was a pretty good one. It's a simple one, but, um, yeah, I i thought it would be good to share.
00:08:14.51
Bill
Nice.
00:08:18.71
Mike
So here we go. Uh, September 20th, the best way to cheer yourself up is to try to cheer someone else up. Some guy named Mark Twain. I think he wrote a few things. Uh, sometimes it does no good to try to deal with our feelings. I want to read that again. Sometimes it does no good to try to deal with our feelings for the moment. We're stuck. We can only see things one way, no matter what anyone says we're closed up for the moment. But this puts our sobriety at risk. How do we stop self-pity focus on someone else?
00:08:59.54
Mike
When we really want to help someone else be happy, we'll ask our higher powers help. Then things will start to change because our good deeds come back to us. Remember, service will always keep us sober.
00:09:14.33
Mike
Prayer for the day. Higher power. Sometimes I get stuck in my own by old ways. Or my own ways. Same thing. Help me change my focus at those times. Help me stay sober. Action for the day. I will think of a time when I was stuck in bad feelings. How did I get out of that spot?
00:09:37.74
Bill
You know what? I obviously read that one. i might have That might have been the the reading I posted this morning because
00:09:43.06
Mike
I think it was. I think I glanced at it at one point today and saw it and I went, I don't care. I'm reading it anyway.
00:09:48.51
Bill
No, and I was going to say, i'm i'm glad I'm glad that you picked that one because, um like you said, it's ah i mean you know we could joke around, oh, keep it simple, it was simple.
00:09:57.02
Mike
he
00:09:57.17
Bill
But no, it really was. It's it's simple, it's short, it's to the point, um but hugely important.
00:10:01.04
Mike
this
00:10:03.21
Bill
It's something that we talk about on a fairly regular basis, if not all the time.
00:10:06.62
Mike
right
00:10:07.99
Bill
So let's take, ah as I always like to do, take that last thing first
00:10:12.01
Mike
easy
00:10:12.26
Bill
And do you remember, I mean, because the last one said what stuck in your feelings and what you did to get out of it or stuck in something, how you.
00:10:17.49
Mike
Right. Right. Stuck in whatever bad mood, whatever the fuck it was. I already put the book down. God damn it.
00:10:22.59
Bill
That's OK, that's OK.
00:10:22.71
Mike
yeah No, it's right here.
00:10:23.62
Bill
Now you're good.
00:10:23.93
Mike
It's right here. Uh, I will think of time when I was stuck in bad feelings.
00:10:27.96
Bill
Bad feelings, OK.
00:10:30.22
Mike
Right.
00:10:30.26
Bill
So with that, um can you think of, a I mean, it whether it was recent or yeah, or just what you what you do or what you would do in in a situation like that?
00:10:34.00
Mike
A specific time. Right.
00:10:40.00
Mike
I mean, that, you know, as it said, pretty much the whole gist of the reading is, you know, stop focusing on yourself and focus on someone else in a positive way. um You know, I mean, it's real easy to focus on other people when you're in that bad mood and, yeah, what an asshole.
00:10:49.09
Bill
Right.
00:10:54.11
Bill
Right.
00:10:55.79
Mike
I'll focus on his assholeness instead of my own. i' Right. That's, again, old stuff. um Yeah. i Lots of times. um You know, and by trust me, not 100 percent.
00:11:08.87
Mike
not by a long shot. Um, but it does work 100% of the time. I just don't do it 100% of the time.
00:11:17.28
Bill
right
00:11:17.75
Mike
Um, but yeah, Oh, absolutely. I mean, you want to get yourself out of a shit mood, help somebody else. That's it's, and it's the quickest and easiest. And like I said, 100% successful.
00:11:29.92
Mike
It works every fucking time. Even if, you know, I'm um again, I can't even think of a time when you know, you tried and then the other person didn't want your help or whatever, you know, something.
00:11:41.53
Bill
ha
00:11:41.73
Mike
ah Yeah, I mean, it's just that doesn't happen. You know, i'm I'm in a shit mood.
00:11:44.73
Bill
Right.
00:11:46.21
Mike
I'm going to focus on making someone else's life better. And um and that there is that a math and then my fucking life gets better. Wow. um so i To this day, don't understand it.
00:11:58.96
Mike
Don't know how it works. Doesn't fucking matter. I take the action and do it. and it It works every time.
00:12:05.25
Bill
Right. Yeah. And there are, um, I mean, there, there are times when, cause you know, yeah, most of the time, you know, you're, you're alone. I spend a lot of time by myself. Um, you know, so there, there may not be a, let's say it happens.
00:12:14.51
Mike
up.
00:12:17.23
Bill
I mean, it's eight o'clock at night and you're on your own and whatever. And you're in, you're in a mood.
00:12:20.05
Mike
Right.
00:12:20.71
Bill
And I mean, if nothing else you can, you know, we can do something, you know, productive.
00:12:21.61
Mike
Hmm.
00:12:25.26
Bill
We can, we can read, we can sit, we could just sit there and, um, you know, if nothing else, I mean, watch mindless TV, you know, help you're taking the main point is taking that focus off of whatever this,
00:12:31.08
Mike
Right. Hmm.
00:12:35.49
Bill
we don't wanna dwell, we don't wanna wallow, we've talked about all those sort of things. And you know a lot of times too is that um you know I haven't done a lot of writing lately, but you know if I've been in ah in a mood sometimes, sometimes doing something like that, working on something,
00:12:44.66
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:12:52.18
Bill
You know in whether it be anything like that. It might be something with the podcast. It could be something I'm writing um You know or like I said, I mean a lot of times I just I just turn something on, you know Get my mind away.
00:13:02.47
Bill
I'm focusing on, you know some mindless TV show or some stupid movie I've seen a hundred times and it does it gets a it gets me out of my own head because I know that worst case scenario um I don't want to sit and do nothing because then I'm just gonna again just gonna fucking wallow, you know
00:13:16.23
Mike
Hmm.
00:13:19.88
Mike
Right. Yeah. youre like Focusing on yourself is the worst thing we can do. Right. Which makes no sense because, you know, right you're supposed to be supposed to be working on ourselves and supposed to be whatever, we you know, but I mean, a big part for me of working on myself, making myself a better person, again, is stop focusing on myself, trying to make things better for other people. That's the whole point of all of this shit.
00:13:44.01
Bill
Right, yeah, and and i've been I've been very open on here and I don't know why it happens. I have, and I don't know if you want, well, I suppose you could, even if they're mild, I go, I have mood swings, you know? There's certain times that I'm like, why am I in such a fucking good mood, you know?
00:13:56.88
Mike
Right.
00:13:57.06
Bill
And then then I get in this weird mood, I'm like, what the fuck, man? i was I was happy as shit a minute ago. And then I just, I get these you know these hills and these valleys, you know? But the the thing that we had talked about, I don't know, shit, maybe a month ago, a few weeks ago at least, is that,
00:14:11.67
Bill
you know i had the revelation or convinced i'm convinced of the fact that you know being in in a shitty mood is my i mean that's my base point you know i mean it's kind of like being a you know being a worthless fucking drunken alcoholic or active alcoholic is is our baseline you know so i i'm not working on something right or not doing something right if i if i have those dips you know so um i and i realize that i guess that's that's the main point but
00:14:20.04
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah.
00:14:24.44
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:14:34.38
Mike
Right.
00:14:38.16
Bill
um you know good deeds coming back was the other thing i wrote down obviously focusing on the others we talked about um puts uh oh puts our sobriety at risk i'm like what the fuck did i just write down i seriously i can barely read my handwriting sometimes it's ridiculous but i mean all this stuff you know the angry lonely tired stuff you know angry lonely hungry right tired angry yeah
00:14:41.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:14:47.14
Mike
Oh, yeah.
00:14:51.26
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:14:57.46
Mike
Right. Right. Yep. Halt.
00:15:00.58
Bill
um Yeah, Jesus Christ, I can't remember that little acronym. um you know But really any of those things, but the the same thing is that I think that even though, ah maybe from the outside, somebody that doesn't have a you know a problem, or maybe not everyone has the type of you know feelings that we do, you know people are sober, whatever, don't have these ups and downs, highs and lows, fine, cool.
00:15:18.28
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.
00:15:21.68
Bill
um but you know you don't think about the fact that again it's these little things i'm 100 convinced in in the time that we've been sober um the shit that's hit really hard you know like um the the big things when obviously most recent when mom died then we talk about when uncle john died when larry died um
00:15:35.82
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:15:40.18
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:15:42.11
Bill
We've got one to talk about coming up, but you know, the, these friends and these people close to us, these big things, I'm not saying that they're easy to deal with, but they're, they're so glaring and so out in the open that you realize, I think that it's just human nature, like, okay, I gotta be on guard, but it's these little fucking things that'll get us, right?
00:15:43.83
Mike
sir
00:15:59.68
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The little, you know, right. The, somebody cutting you off of traffic, somebody, whatever.
00:16:04.59
Bill
Right.
00:16:05.18
Mike
Yeah. You know, that, that comes to mind. Um, but yes. Uh, yeah, it's a little shit. It's, it's the, it's going to be. Again, I think, I think, you know, I mean, well, the big book says, you know, the root of our troubles is selfishness and self-centeredness.
00:16:22.94
Mike
I think the root of every problem in the world, um certainly in my world is is ah unhealthy focus on self.
00:16:33.07
Bill
Right.
00:16:33.14
Mike
I mean, that's, I think everyone's problem, whether they're an alcoholic or a drug addict or a normal person or whatever the fuck you are. um Yeah, I mean, you spend too much time focusing on yourself. Again, sounds counterintuitive, because, you know, we're supposed to be working on ourselves and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and setting boundaries for ourselves and all that. And that's all great. But an unhealthy focus on oneself makes your life fucking miserable. Because I mean,
00:17:00.17
Mike
Quite frankly, we're not all that important. We're not supposed to be spending our time focusing on ourselves all the time. We're here to help the next person along.
00:17:06.33
Bill
Right.
00:17:08.87
Mike
Um, you know, we're a community, we're social animals. That's what we are. Um, and yeah, you spend all your time just focused on yourself and I don't know.
00:17:19.77
Mike
It's an awful life.
00:17:22.08
Bill
Right, well and the other thing too is that, and and I just made me think about it when you were talking about that, if if I am going to focus on myself, and I'm not, I'm not a, inherently I'm not a negative person, I am a positive person, but when I just thought about that, if I was just gonna sit down and focus on myself, I won't say never, but it's usually about things that I wanna fix, you know?
00:17:45.03
Mike
Right.
00:17:45.79
Bill
Because if things are going well, we don't, it's just kinda, it's yeah it again human nature we kind of go with the flow but if i just sat there and like in front of a mirror okay and look at myself and i mean i don't care that um somebody posted on instagram earlier today and it's one of our one of our female followers that i don't know how old she is
00:18:04.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:18:05.72
Bill
um She might be in her 40s, I'm guessing. um Looks wonderful. She's very open about all these different things. Married, I think she's got kids and all. Got a good thing going on, you know?
00:18:14.96
Mike
Right.
00:18:15.12
Bill
But she had posted this thing and posted something about, she's like, you know, something about um i I enjoy getting old and, you know, the the wrinkles and the the memories and all these different things. And what I commented was, I'm like, getting older is a gift.
00:18:28.26
Mike
right
00:18:28.32
Bill
you know And that's the first thing I thought about because you know when when you think about it, like you and I, just if you take the two of us, neither one of us should have made it in a minimum past our mid 40s, right?
00:18:40.02
Mike
No, no.
00:18:40.62
Bill
um I mean, let alone you know that you're you're pushing 60.
00:18:43.63
Mike
Yes, I am.
00:18:44.65
Bill
I mean, I'm gonna be 56 on fucking Tuesday. you know So I'm um cross that middle now, but I was hanging around in this middle for a year and I was cool with it.
00:18:52.96
Mike
he
00:18:53.68
Bill
I said, a lot i don't I don't give a fuck. Because, you know, physically, I i feel better, um or at least in a minimum, I don't feel any worse than I did a year ago, okay? So if nothing else, I don't feel any worse, okay?
00:19:06.17
Mike
Right.
00:19:06.95
Bill
And the things that I, if I take a look at, that's just physically, that's the age thing, but if I really look to back to my point, if I sat in the mirror and I'm like, okay, so I got a wrinkle here, and I mean, I don't have full graying here, I don't care if I don't care when i do or if I do or whatever, but for whatever reason, i hate my hair's not graying, I don't know what the deal is, but it isn't.
00:19:16.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:19:24.98
Bill
you know but um i'm like i could probably get in a little better shape i wish my fucking knees didn't hurt all the time yeah i'm out walking around but there's there's a limit because i can't even if it's straight and not climbing on shit i can only walk so long before my knees are fucking killing me you know so i can look at all these different things and like okay so
00:19:26.24
Mike
Uh.
00:19:34.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:19:43.01
Bill
I wish I didn't have to, you know, like chill out for a month here. It has nothing to do with being here or Kathy or anything like that.
00:19:48.18
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
00:19:49.69
Bill
Love our sister and I love being here. But so I'd love to have a little bit more money than I can take a look at.
00:19:51.64
Mike
ye Yep.
00:19:54.41
Bill
Well, my boy job and this and that. All it's going to do is put me in this fucking whirlwind of bullshit. you know when When really what it comes down to and what I what i really have been trying to do is accept the fact that i'm i this is exactly what I planned and I need to remind myself of that.
00:20:14.34
Bill
I need to look at myself in the mirror and say, you dumb motherfucker, here was your plan.
00:20:18.44
Mike
Right.
00:20:18.68
Bill
You wanted to make enough money to go out and do the things you want to do. it I talked to you before I did this. I talked to Kimmy and Derek and obviously Kimmy, Brian and Derek. I talked to Kathy and I said, here's what I want to do.
00:20:30.71
Bill
First of all, am I crazy? Got all your input. Nobody said I was completely fucking it nuts.
00:20:33.08
Mike
Right. Right.
00:20:35.45
Bill
But on top of that, I'm like, I will need time. I'm sure either take a break, come see you guys, hang out, whatever, because I want to do that. But if nothing else, maybe I need to just like not spend money.
00:20:44.79
Mike
Right.
00:20:44.99
Bill
So I got to remind myself that this was my plan. So it's really easy for me to to get into if I'm going to focus on myself, it's going to be all fucking negative. And I got to remind myself that don't focus like you said. And if I do, I've got to go back to that where I forget to be grateful. I need to be grateful.
00:21:04.44
Mike
Right. Absolutely. Well, I mean, that's, you know, that's the exercise that we have to take, you know, if, you know, uh, there isn't, like you said, anybody around to, to help, uh, which happens, you know, the eight o'clock at night, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:21:18.56
Mike
Then we need to spin that focus around.
00:21:18.83
Bill
Right.
00:21:20.84
Mike
Cause yes, it is me too. Same thing. You know, ah my, my focus will go to the negative stuff. It just does. Um, Yeah, yeah ooh this problem and that problem. No, I gotta fucking not focus on that shit and focus on what I have not what I don't have Yeah Mm
00:21:35.22
Bill
Right. and And it's, I mean, it's hard because, you know, in and everyone has to deal with it. I mean, we can, I don't, I don't like to, once again, like we were talking with Dr. Sarah and we said it, you know, for months now, if not years on here, also in years outside of it is just, I don't want to be a victim.
00:21:50.95
Bill
I don't want to blame society. I want to blame that.
00:21:52.92
Mike
-hmm Hmm
00:21:53.15
Bill
Oh, but look at what all these fucking people have. Look at what social media is doing to me. Oh, everyone out there is targeting me, you know. Fuck that, nobody's targeting me, nobody's triggering me.
00:22:00.52
Mike
Nope. Mm hmm.
00:22:01.68
Bill
If I go on social media and I see supposedly somebody living this wonderful and beautiful life and I feel worse about myself because of that, well, fuck me then.
00:22:11.10
Mike
Yeah.
00:22:11.29
Bill
That's my problem, not theirs. I'd rather get on social media. and take a look at, especially because Instagram, I've got this whole, I don't know how many people are not sober that I follow or follow us, um you know, but 80% probably are are sober people.
00:22:22.66
Mike
Right.
00:22:25.24
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
00:22:26.56
Bill
And I see these people out there, you know, um first of all, and literally, you don't mean this from a piggish way, but the the beautiful people out there, you know, you look at these before and after pictures, there's some good looking sober people out there, men and women.
00:22:36.01
Mike
Hmm.
00:22:38.31
Mike
Right.
00:22:38.53
Bill
And you see somewhere there before and after pictures, you're like, you're like, holy shit, good for you. And then on top of it, you see them hanging with their kids and with their families.
00:22:45.13
Mike
Right.
00:22:45.43
Bill
you know plain whatever the thing is that's a wonderful motivating thing to watch you know and that's what i need to do on social media and not look at somebody and be like whoa whoa look what they have yeah that's a good point
00:22:48.33
Mike
Hmm.
00:22:56.52
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, and you know, I always have to remind myself when I see stuff like that, well, they probably have a hell of a lot more debt than I do. So yeah, they got all this crap, but do they actually have it or do they just owe a whole bunch of money on it?
00:23:12.71
Bill
right Yeah, and that that is. I mean i you know i think about when when Dawn and I were together, i mean the two of us, you know made ah we made it we made both about the same amount of money and in at that time, and it was.
00:23:21.96
Mike
Sure.
00:23:23.61
Bill
It was a decent amount of money, and we had a house, we had this and that, and all it was, I don't remember who said it.
00:23:25.01
Mike
sure
00:23:28.30
Bill
I think a brother might have said something to us at one point, like, my God, you guys, all these things you have, I'm like, you should see our fucking bills.
00:23:32.82
Mike
Mm hmm. Great. Exactly.
00:23:35.35
Bill
I said, you know, the mortgage and the insurance and two car payments and this and that.
00:23:39.16
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:39.32
Bill
And, you know, even when I sit down and look at my own bills and I don't, I mean, I don't have a lot of things, but I mean, granted spending money, do these different things.
00:23:44.14
Mike
Right.
00:23:45.78
Bill
I got some charge over you, all that shit, none of that shit matters. You know, but I still have monthly expenses and and again, all this shit costs money, you know?
00:23:51.06
Mike
Uh huh.
00:23:55.05
Bill
And so somebody's doing bigger things, they have bigger bills or, you know, somehow, some way they got a lot of fucking money in the, you know, whatever.
00:23:55.05
Mike
Yeah.
00:23:58.74
Mike
Yup.
00:24:02.21
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:24:02.34
Bill
Good for you.
00:24:03.13
Mike
Yeah, right. Exactly.
00:24:07.18
Bill
But um no, I mean, that the reading in general, I mean, I don't know, I just just again, like like you said, you know, simple and to the point and you know that the biggest thing there is I mean, yeah, not focusing, but also, you know, and and it's still it it's it's stupid for me to even say it out loud when I when I do all the time.
00:24:14.31
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:24:24.79
Bill
But um the fact that I have to remember to be grateful is ridiculous in my mind, you know, but but I know it's
00:24:28.33
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Of course it is. Right. But we have to do it. Yeah, I do, too. Yes. I have to force myself to be grateful. Fucked up.
00:24:40.26
Bill
Yeah, it it really is.
00:24:41.01
Mike
But but then I will. But when I do, when I again take that action. and force myself to look around and look at the things I have, not what I don't have. Yeah, my life gets better.
00:24:51.61
Mike
I have a better attitude. I have a better outlook because I'm focusing on the positive. Yeah, it seems it seems stupid to have to say it out loud, but apparently we have to say it out loud to ourselves pretty much on a daily basis.
00:25:04.73
Bill
Right, yeah, and it's, I don't think about it when I'm doing it, but when but we're talking about it on here, it's just like, God, you know, I mean, same thing, you know, you're whatever your normal person is, you're let's not even say normal, you're non-alcoholic non non-sober, non-programmed person, person um you know it just out there, there are you know, there's people out there, I think, that are genuinely happy probably most of the time and don't have to work that hard to do it.
00:25:15.77
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
00:25:26.47
Mike
Mm. Right.
00:25:29.18
Bill
um I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there's people out there, but then again, I have to also believe and know for a fact that there's people out there.
00:25:35.19
Mike
Mm.
00:25:36.62
Bill
Everyone life fucking happens to everyone.
00:25:39.12
Mike
Oh, yeah. I mean, right. Yeah, there's normies out there that are fucking miserable.
00:25:43.38
Bill
Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yep.
00:25:44.48
Mike
Yeah.
00:25:47.39
Mike
Yup. Yup. And again, that's the gratitude. I, you know, I'll do this little bit of stuff so I'm not a miserable motherfucker.
00:25:51.47
Bill
Right.
00:25:55.53
Mike
Thank you.
00:25:56.74
Bill
Well, and you know that that is that that's a flip side and what we talked about plenty of times of, you know, ah knowing that we had to go through everything that we did and you know it it had to happen in whatever time it had to happen and um you know for both of us that are in our early 40s rather than our mid 20s you know.
00:26:13.83
Mike
this
00:26:14.36
Bill
And you know what again all that differences and in timing and blah blah blah and it's it's crazy to to have to think back and and realize that everything.
00:26:25.75
Bill
Everything that we went through when you say it all the time you know has worth you know.
00:26:29.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:26:29.90
Bill
and And again, you know given the fact that what ah what a gift to have to go through all that fucking bullshit, but then given this, and it said, you know this program of living that we have, and you know realizing that, okay, I don't know, it's we're different people, you know not just because we're sober, but because we were taught these things.
00:26:29.93
Mike
Yep.
00:26:48.10
Bill
Taking away the booze doesn't fix everything, we know that.
00:26:50.12
Mike
Oh, no.
00:26:51.03
Bill
yeah
00:26:51.55
Mike
It fixes very little.
00:26:54.26
Bill
Exactly.
00:26:54.54
Mike
Fixes a couple of things, but not much.
00:26:57.05
Bill
Yeah, it just it just lets things smolder for a little bit until you get to work on the on the real, you know, you still got they got smoke in there.
00:26:59.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:27:03.54
Bill
You may not have a blazing inferno of a fire, but you so got some pride you still got problems there.
00:27:06.48
Mike
Right.
00:27:07.97
Bill
You gotta fucking deal with it. You're gonna be a mess. So I don't know, like I said, gratitude.
00:27:10.14
Mike
Yup.
00:27:13.54
Bill
that's the That's one of my biggest takeaways. I can't focus on myself. I know that, but yeah, I gotta be fucking grateful.
00:27:16.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:27:20.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:27:22.10
Bill
Oh, speaking of fucks, um, because I looked, I looked when I was doing the, uh, the transcript.
00:27:24.10
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:27:26.73
Bill
So first of all, um, Dr. Sarah's episode, I get two things to say about that. The number of fucks in it, we'll get that in a minute. And then we got a comment also from a, uh, from one of our followers, but analysts in her, of course, but, um,
00:27:35.79
Mike
Cool.
00:27:38.87
Bill
in Dr. Sarah's episode, I mean, that was wonderful. i think it I think it played well. I mean, I listened to it, it played well and got some nice comments from from a couple of different people, but one in particular that I'll read, but um yeah, she's just, do it was fun, you know, but i didn't I didn't think about it.
00:27:44.17
Mike
Yeah.
00:27:47.71
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:53.98
Bill
I know she said, she said fuck a couple of times, but I didn't, yeah but so I, number of fucks, what do you think with a Dr.
00:27:57.06
Mike
Yeah.
00:28:02.64
Bill
Sarah episode?
00:28:03.89
Mike
Right. Uh, it's certainly less than normal, I would think. Um, uh, yes, right.
00:28:07.34
Bill
Yes.
00:28:09.11
Mike
Let, let's go. Oh hell. Let's just put it out there. 69.
00:28:15.20
Bill
You know what? as As much of a joke as that might be, you're not far off. It was 58.
00:28:19.53
Mike
Yeah.
00:28:20.23
Bill
It was 58.
00:28:20.56
Mike
Yeah. There you go.
00:28:21.74
Bill
yeah
00:28:22.58
Mike
Yeah. I went over Bob. Sorry.
00:28:25.41
Bill
No, it's honestly, I mean, this I'm gonna kind of give you that one just because it was really close.
00:28:25.67
Mike
a
00:28:31.25
Bill
But I mean, that's normally when when we have a guest, unless, God, I can't even think, maybe one of our friends, you know one of our Cleveland friends that we were we were up there with them, but you know the whatever your quote unquote normal guests are.
00:28:36.87
Mike
Right. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:28:42.49
Bill
But I mean, yeah, she, um I mean, she's just, I was gonna say too busy, but that's not the right way. She's busy you know having this conversation.
00:28:48.81
Mike
Right.
00:28:50.91
Bill
We're busy listening to her and all that stuff.
00:28:52.35
Mike
right
00:28:52.59
Bill
and and just it it was It was fun, I had a lot of fun. but So the listener and follower, Shirley, this is the one that compared us the one time, the immature, whatever, one's more immature than the other that she gave us that comment.
00:28:56.18
Mike
ahha
00:29:04.55
Mike
Oh yeah. Great.
00:29:06.50
Bill
But yeah, thiss this is this is Shirley's comment. She said, what a great episode. I love Dr. Sarah and her insights on relationships. All three of you should get together and record more than once a year.
00:29:17.68
Mike
Hmm. Yeah.
00:29:18.88
Bill
and And I said, well, if you listen to the episode, I said, we kind of talked about that.
00:29:23.20
Mike
Yeah, we did.
00:29:24.56
Bill
And I i texted that I did a screenshot and texted Dr. Sarah on that. She's like, she's like, oh, I'm up for it whenever we can go more of a deeper into whatever.
00:29:31.75
Mike
Cool.
00:29:33.34
Bill
And I said, just I said, let's keep in touch. We'll figure it out. Because once again, the main thing is, is that we always have a lot of fun with her, which, you know, again, kind of main point, like you said, to begin with.
00:29:36.06
Mike
say
00:29:39.60
Mike
Yep.
00:29:42.35
Bill
But
00:29:42.58
Mike
yep
00:29:43.21
Bill
um I do, I really think that people people get some so you know some things out of it. And hopefully, oh, it I think um Elise was out of town this past week.
00:29:47.58
Mike
Yeah.
00:29:52.83
Bill
So the episode, I think, I don't know if it'll be next week, but I texted Elise right away and told her.
00:29:53.36
Mike
isnt
00:29:59.32
Bill
So our episode, I didn't look on Dr. Sarah's website yet since Elise does it. So it might get another push next week.
00:30:06.35
Mike
Okay.
00:30:06.55
Bill
because it'll go up in the sober curator and I think it'll go up on Dr. Sarah's website if it's not up on that one yet.
00:30:09.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:30:11.93
Bill
um So we'll we'll get a little bit more exposure and she will obviously on that episode.
00:30:14.08
Mike
Well, I know, I know she posted something on Facebook I saw about the episode. So few days ago.
00:30:18.95
Bill
ah Dr. Sarah.
00:30:19.93
Mike
Yeah.
00:30:20.91
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw that, but I don't know because she has Elise embeds the podcast appearances um on her website.
00:30:28.89
Mike
Gotcha.
00:30:28.92
Bill
So I think it'll be, it'll be a better on her website, but then it's going to go up on the sober curator. So I know Elise will do a write up on that for us too.
00:30:34.65
Mike
Cool.
00:30:34.80
Bill
But yeah, so either way, I don't know if it was a lot of fun and yeah, we'll, we will definitely get back, get back in touch with her and get back together with her at some point.
00:30:36.00
Mike
Cool.
00:30:38.40
Mike
It was.
00:30:43.25
Bill
But yeah.
00:30:43.41
Mike
Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Chris even said to me, uh, she just listened to it. I think yesterday. Yeah. She's all, I really like her. She's great. So yeah, it will have to have her back. Cause apparently it, uh, it's better than just us.
00:30:59.84
Bill
Well, you know, here, here's the thing that the thing of it is, and here's my, if nothing else, my opinion with this is that she is like, what she said it a couple of times in the first time we recorded with her in this time, she kept saying, you know, like she goes, you guys are my people.
00:31:08.70
Mike
Hmm.
00:31:12.81
Bill
She goes, we're on the same wavelength, which I believe is true.
00:31:13.32
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah.
00:31:16.54
Bill
We all of us, even though again, I mean, she's got 40 fucking years sober.
00:31:20.30
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:31:20.81
Bill
I think that she, you know, the, the three of us were brought up through this AA program the same way by different people, but I think with the same mindset mentality.
00:31:24.00
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure. Right.
00:31:30.50
Bill
So I think we do line up very well that way.
00:31:32.98
Mike
Right.
00:31:33.19
Bill
um You know plus she's she's very talkative and very outgoing and you know She'll talk about anything and answer any questions and you know, she always says well I'm gonna go off on a tangent, which is what we do all the time.
00:31:36.24
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:31:43.16
Mike
Sure.
00:31:43.71
Bill
So I just think all of Right, yeah, we start talking about whatever and we end up 17, you know 17 miles over in the other direction but so really I think that that's what it is just all three of us click very well I think is
00:31:43.97
Mike
We just don't announce it. We just do it.
00:31:52.56
Mike
was it
00:31:58.23
Mike
Yeah.
00:31:59.00
Bill
you know And Kathy said the same thing. She's like, I she's like i love Dr. Sarah.
00:32:02.07
Mike
Uh huh.
00:32:02.32
Bill
She's like, it was such a great episode.
00:32:03.45
Mike
Yeah.
00:32:04.25
Bill
And it it was, it absolutely was.
00:32:04.59
Mike
Yeah. It was cool.
00:32:07.35
Bill
So um a couple of things, speaking of podcasts. So I listened to the Chris Robinson episode on Mark Baron.
00:32:12.65
Mike
Okay. Uh-huh.
00:32:14.22
Bill
And yeah, ah same thing you know same thing that you said and same thing I thought of him. I thought it was a it was a better, I think it was a better conversation than Conan.
00:32:18.23
Mike
Right.
00:32:22.14
Bill
I like Conan, but Conan's a bit of a, but you know He's been up a fucking blow hard and um i he's he's cool in one sense that he gets a little fucking weird and whatever.
00:32:27.17
Mike
Sure.
00:32:31.50
Bill
And I don't know, Mark is just a little bit more just even with it.
00:32:32.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:32:34.73
Bill
I just think they had a great conversation.
00:32:36.45
Mike
There.
00:32:36.90
Bill
yeah The only thing, every time I listened to Chris Robinson and it blew me away when I first, I don't remember, I'm sure I've heard his voice before in the past, but you know you look at him and then you hear his voice, they don't match.
00:32:45.28
Mike
Hmm.
00:32:48.82
Bill
you know And i just i to me, I just didn't think, I thought he would sound more high.
00:32:49.12
Mike
Hmm. Really?
00:32:53.92
Mike
Oh, right.
00:32:54.94
Bill
yeah You know he just because of the way I mean he looks more gruff and more rough and it looks more of like a like a hippie type of you know i you know what I mean it's just but but again people's voices and faces sometimes they don't blend but ah you're you're right about that when you said it I thought the same thing when I listen to the Conan one.
00:33:01.04
Mike
Hmm. Right. Yeah.
00:33:12.78
Bill
um not only really talkative, really intelligent, knows a lot of shit, and just really, he's not just some, you know, some fucking rock and roll head, you know, um I mean, he's just he's really engaging to listen to.
00:33:16.18
Mike
Right.
00:33:22.03
Mike
Right.
00:33:25.51
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:27.59
Bill
So yeah, but I really thought so too.
00:33:28.49
Mike
Right. Yeah. Good stuff.
00:33:31.96
Bill
And I started listening. I don't think I've talked to you since I started listening to the moon Zappa book, did I?
00:33:37.36
Mike
No, I don't think so.
00:33:38.48
Bill
Okay, so I listened to quite a bit of it, not quite a bit, but she's got very short chapters and stuff in there moving in.
00:33:44.47
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:33:45.24
Bill
I don't know how far in, but I mean, shit, it's been you know two weeks since I got back from North Carolina and that's when I was listening to it on the way back. So far, I mean, I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
00:33:55.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:33:55.86
Bill
So a couple of things, and with the interesting part, and I couldn't figure it out to begin with, but um she is actually, you know how, like some people when they write a book, um they'll write it kind of in the third person, but also a little bit first person.
00:34:06.97
Mike
Uh
00:34:10.00
Bill
So they're not writing it when they're talking about how they were as a child.
00:34:10.11
Mike
-huh.
00:34:12.92
Bill
They're like, when I was, and this is what I went through, and this is how I felt. She actually wrote the book more as if she is literally speaking as the child, okay?
00:34:23.70
Bill
It's that's how it comes across and I really had to listen to it I'm like, this is I couldn't figure it out that I'm like, I'm like, holy shit She's writing almost as as with the mind of an eight-year-old or a nine-year-old rather than saying I I this is how I felt, you know, she's like speaking through this whole stuff It's very engaging but a couple of quick takeaways from it.
00:34:34.41
Mike
Right. so
00:34:40.36
Mike
good
00:34:43.14
Bill
First of all, I mean, she's also interesting That family is fucked up
00:34:48.14
Mike
Yep.
00:34:48.77
Bill
Um, but I don't know why they ever had kids. Let's just leave it at that. Um, it just, it's, it's her, the mom, and I mean, Frank, Frank's one, you know, one thing and a little bit more of a public, you know, personality and the things that he's done and Ben and blah, blah, blah.
00:34:57.04
Mike
ahha Right. Mm hmm. Sure.
00:35:03.75
Bill
But, um, yeah, the mom, she's just, she's all kinds of fucked up, but.
00:35:07.42
Mike
Oh yeah, Gil is a fucking bitch, but yeah, right.
00:35:11.19
Bill
crazy, just crazy stuff, but um highly recommend it.
00:35:11.83
Mike
Yep. Yep.
00:35:15.89
Bill
And it's called Earth to Moon is what it's called.
00:35:18.01
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:35:19.35
Bill
And the reason, do you know the reason it's titled that?
00:35:21.82
Mike
I do not.
00:35:22.96
Bill
So um I just thought, you know, she was just like, I, again, I thought kind of like more of a came from the earth and I'm moon type of thing and kind of a play on words, but her mom, Gail used to always say, like, if she didn't think she was paying attention or if she was basically calling her stupid, if she said something stupid, she'd go earth to moon, earth to moon.
00:35:29.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:35:39.32
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:35:42.24
Bill
all the time like, you know, wake up, you dumb shit, whatever, very demeaning.
00:35:44.14
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
00:35:47.28
Bill
So that's the title of the book comes from our mom saying that to her all the fucking time.
00:35:49.72
Mike
Ah.
00:35:51.20
Bill
And I'm just like, one of the times you said it, I'm like, oh, okay.
00:35:51.36
Mike
Hmm.
00:35:54.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:35:56.52
Bill
But again, I highly, highly recommend it. Once again, even if you don't give a flying fuck about, you know, Frank Zappa or even her in particular, it's a good story.
00:36:04.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:36:05.56
Bill
You know, it's a good story so far, so.
00:36:05.72
Mike
Right. Right.
00:36:08.08
Bill
Yeah, I need to do some more driving so I could listen to the rest of it. But um oh, speaking of rocket roll shit, before we take a break, tell you went to the you went to the show last night.
00:36:19.51
Bill
I want to hear the want to hear about that real quick.
00:36:20.17
Mike
I did. Um, yeah, no, it was, um, uh, who went to rival sons and clutch. We didn't stay for clutch. Um, cause I'm old and yes, it was getting late, but, um, it was a school night.
00:36:32.30
Bill
It was a school night.
00:36:34.56
Mike
Absolutely. Um, yeah, no, I, you know, uh, I've never seen Fu Manchu before. They were really good. Good solid band. Um, heavy, fuzzy, good stuff. I liked it a lot.
00:36:46.19
Mike
um And yeah, Rival Sons were just fantastic as always. um It was at ah Jacob's Pavilion or whatever the hell it's called now. I think that's what it's called now.
00:36:56.33
Mike
Used to be Nautica. um But yeah, it's this cool little amphitheater um right down on the river in the flats here in Cleveland. um So literally the back of the stage is the river.
00:37:05.85
Bill
Okay.
00:37:09.66
Bill
oh Okay.
00:37:10.25
Mike
and then downtown on the other side. i Yeah, it's really cool.
00:37:12.91
Bill
Nice.
00:37:14.42
Mike
Yeah. um And it was, you know, yeah, Rival Sons were fucking great, man. Like they always are just solid, solid fucking rock and roll band.
00:37:22.82
Bill
Right.
00:37:22.95
Mike
And, um you know, they played for um probably hour 20, something like that.
00:37:28.71
Bill
Okay.
00:37:28.98
Mike
and uh yeah it was just great um actually uh ran into a couple people that I know that the show that was cool um ran into my uh I don't know that ex brother wife's brother uh and his best friend that was very cool haven't seen them in quite a while um ah we run into each other at shows once in a while actually he went uh the first time I saw Rival Sons they played at the grog shop here in Cleveland and uh which is a small club.
00:38:00.86
Mike
Uh this was like eight years ago and uh and uh Megan went with me and um uh son of a **** who the hell else went with us?
00:38:03.55
Bill
Right.
00:38:11.65
Mike
Um oh, I'm trying to blank. That's awful. Okay. I'm going to get I'm going to get my a one of our friends, one of our poker friends. Um oh my god. i I'm I'm blanking on her name.
00:38:21.84
Mike
I can actually see your face and I'm I'm just a fuck anyway
00:38:24.95
Bill
Sounds like, looks like.
00:38:26.27
Mike
Right. ah Yeah. Wow. All right. I'll probably come to be later anyway. And, um, I ended up with an extra ticket cause it was after, um, all the nonsense that I went through eight years ago. So I had an extra ticket and, um, I somehow, I think Matt was on Facebook at the time and, um, got hold of him and he was like, yeah, fuck, I want to go. So it was cool running into him and his buddy Chris and, um,
00:38:50.25
Mike
It was actually, we ran into once, talked and shot shot shit with them a little bit, introduced them both to my Chris.
00:38:58.16
Bill
Right.
00:38:58.52
Mike
um you know excited dont think and I don't think they'd better. and Anyway, we're on the way out. It was rival sons was done and clutch was hadn't come on yet. And we were, we were leaving.
00:39:10.40
Mike
It was like nine 30 at night and, uh, ran into him again. And actually Chris grabbed me cause I've known these guys for, you know, 35 years. And, uh, he grabbed me and pulled me aside and said, you know, Hey man, look, I just wanted to say, you know, I'm a proud of you, you know, the the whole sobriety thing.
00:39:26.88
Mike
And cause I mean, they saw me at my fucking, you know, at my worst, um,
00:39:30.95
Bill
Right?
00:39:31.74
Mike
And he was just like, yeah, I'm really proud of you. you know And I said, fuck, thanks, man. and It's a lot. Yeah, good dudes. It was it was nice seeing them. So yeah, the bands were great, saw some cool people, had a good time, and got home about 10.30. It was wonderful.
00:39:48.46
Bill
Well, and you know what, um and let's set aside the band thing for a minute. how Everything that we were just talking about you know with the reading and stuff like that, um that is the shit right there.
00:39:59.22
Mike
Right.
00:39:59.25
Bill
you know All these different things we do and all the whatevers and the focusing and just having somebody come up you know randomly like that and and saying anything literally fucking random and out of blue, that is fucking wonderful.
00:40:05.92
Mike
Yeah.
00:40:10.21
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. It was nice. It really was.
00:40:13.65
Bill
That's great.
00:40:14.17
Mike
Yeah.
00:40:14.68
Bill
No, that's really cool.
00:40:15.84
Mike
Yeah.
00:40:16.73
Bill
But um I've never, heard oh maybe through you, i have I heard of Fu Manchu before? Do you talk about him before?
00:40:21.67
Mike
I don't know.
00:40:22.95
Bill
I mean, have you?
00:40:23.07
Mike
No, I mean, I actually I wasn't very familiar.
00:40:23.47
Bill
No? Okay.
00:40:26.38
Mike
I knew like a song or two you here and there. I knew they were good.
00:40:28.69
Bill
Okay.
00:40:29.06
Mike
and But yeah, you know, and actually in preparation for the show, I, you know, listen to some more of their stuff. And yeah, I like it a lot. I might have to go out and pick up a CD there. They're yeah, they're they're heavy fuzz um kind of punk kind of surf um I don't know.
00:40:45.62
Mike
Yeah influenced but um Kind of doom fuzz heavy. Yeah, they're good Rock and roll man, it's all fucking rock and roll Yeah
00:40:57.13
Bill
Right, and I mean, Rival Sons, if ah if anyone's been listening for a while, that's the, well, when I was all headstrong, I'd go on up to see fucking Greta Van Fleet two years ago. And in rival's Rival Sons was the, they were the, yeah, they were second band in that set too.
00:41:10.38
Mike
Yeah.
00:41:11.88
Bill
um They were the ones that they they took the fucking show, the opening one, the opening velvety, velvety, got it, got it right, wow.
00:41:15.55
Mike
Oh yeah. Bubble tears. Yeah.
00:41:20.12
Bill
um They were wonderful and Rival Sons just fucking crushed.
00:41:21.45
Mike
Yeah.
00:41:23.00
Bill
And then Greta Van Fleet was a, warm
00:41:23.08
Mike
Yup.
00:41:25.80
Bill
wow
00:41:25.80
Mike
Yup. Yeah. to yeah
00:41:27.58
Bill
Fucking terrible but um but no I mean I I would love to see them again I think they they came around Milwaukee at I don't know I see every once in a while that they've been they've been kicking around I'd like to see a mega because now they have wasn't that um was it Chevrolet that they did the that took their yeah
00:41:43.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. They took a pressure in time. Yeah. For about a year they were playing that for the pickup commercials. Yep.
00:41:49.95
Bill
Right. Yeah. So that mean they obviously got got some national national yeah i mean national money, national you know exposure and all that stuff.
00:41:53.20
Mike
Got some money.
00:41:57.14
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:41:57.66
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, they come up on, cause for a while there, I think it was right after we obviously came back from there. I just, I played them a lot on on Spotify.
00:42:06.52
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:42:06.86
Bill
So certain mixes that I that i come across, I mean, therere they're literally part of my, depending on what the what I'm playing. there' They come up in my in my kind of mix on Spotify now.
00:42:16.27
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:42:16.48
Bill
i I love their music. I really do. They're a lot of they're a lot of fun.
00:42:18.53
Mike
Yeah.
00:42:19.50
Bill
I'd love to see them again.
00:42:19.80
Mike
Yeah. Just great fucking band, right?
00:42:20.34
Bill
so
00:42:21.81
Mike
I mean, again, you know, when I saw him at the Grog Shop like eight years ago, that was so that was amazing because it was a small club but and they had just, they actually postponed that show.
00:42:32.25
Mike
They were supposed to play like yeah um maybe eight or nine months before they actually did. And they got the opening slot for the Black Sabbath final tour.
00:42:42.22
Bill
oh yeah
00:42:42.72
Mike
So yeahp yeah, so they were going out, they went out for like six months with them and, you know, we're doing 45 minutes. So but this was the first show after that tour, because they came back and made up the show that they were supposed to play here in Cleveland. They played for two and a half hours in a fucking small club. It was fucking great, man.
00:43:01.83
Bill
Yeah, you know what? Now that you said that, I i remember you i remember you talking about that. not Number one, seeing the show and the fact that they were the Sabbath thing and then yeah the the the fact that they played for two and a half hours.
00:43:06.45
Mike
Yeah.
00:43:10.36
Mike
yeah
00:43:13.00
Mike
Yeah, yeah, it was great.
00:43:13.32
Bill
That's awesome, that's awesome. Well, that's cool. Yeah. And I, it it was so funny. I think it was Tuesday, whenever you, uh, maybe Tuesday or Wednesday, when you had posted that, that, uh, yeah, it was Wednesday because you're like, oh, tomorrow night.
00:43:25.23
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:43:26.57
Bill
And I, it had crossed my mind on Wednesday and I was going to text you and I'm like, we are recording on Friday this week, right?
00:43:33.06
Mike
Yes.
00:43:33.78
Bill
Cause I'm like, I'm looking at my upcoming guest stuff and I'm like, I would normally date whatever I'm like, but I don't, we, we've been so much on a Thursday here and there.
00:43:39.63
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:43:41.10
Bill
And then I saw the rival son's thing. I'm like, Oh yeah. Well, we can't fucking record tomorrow because he, he said, he said a goddamn show.
00:43:43.69
Mike
Yep. Nope. I won't be home.
00:43:47.76
Bill
I'm like, that answered my question. So that's good though.
00:43:49.61
Mike
Yep.
00:43:50.59
Bill
I was, yeah, I was, like I was excited to see here. I mean, I knew I, I didn't think you'd come back and say, yeah, yeah they're usually pretty good, but they, they kind of sucked.
00:43:56.95
Mike
Right. Nope. Nope. They were, they were fucking amazing, man. And it was funny. They actually, they had a ah backdrop on the stage of their logo, right? Like they raised it up.
00:44:07.67
Bill
Right.
00:44:07.80
Mike
And about halfway through the set, it just fucking kind of lowered down and the river was behind them. It was really cool. I don't know if they did that intentionally. Like somebody went, you know what, man, drop the fucking banner down.
00:44:18.92
Mike
They know who the hell we are. The backdrop is really cool behind us, you know, and there are boats going by and shit.
00:44:22.89
Bill
Right.
00:44:24.92
Mike
It was just, yeah, it was, it was great show.
00:44:27.55
Bill
That's cool. And and once again, we've talked about this a number of times, the all the concerts that you've gone to um since you've been sober. And you know it's just again, it's another testament of you know you the same thing you talked about with the radio show and all that stuff and you know that's sitting in your bunk at two weeks.
00:44:35.22
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:44:42.50
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:44:44.20
Bill
And am I still going to be able to enjoy myself and get out and rock and roll?
00:44:44.72
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:44:47.45
Bill
And you know just again, just another ah other proof you know of, hey, especially if if people are listening to us and you're new, um there's there's times when, I mean, years ago, I wouldn't have even thought about doing that.
00:44:57.44
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:44:59.70
Bill
Mike's been doing this for years.
00:45:00.56
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:45:01.29
Bill
um I would do any of this shit now.
00:45:02.42
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:45:02.73
Bill
It doesn't bother me anymore. I got comfortable, you know, in my own skin, but that's the point, man. You get some time and do the work and, you know, we can we can do anything we want as long as we're fit, spiritually fit, whatever the fuck you wanna call it.
00:45:11.21
Mike
ah huh Absolutely.
00:45:14.86
Bill
We can get out and shake our asses in a rival sun show.
00:45:17.46
Mike
Right. I may have gotten a small contact buzz last night. No, I did. There was a lot of pot smoking here.
00:45:22.34
Bill
ha
00:45:24.61
Mike
I will say that.
00:45:26.50
Bill
Well, and when we were at that we were the Hartley thing, when we would't were watching the the motorcycles, you know, doing all the stunt bikes and whatever, and once again, I mean, I i never smoked. I didn't do drugs or anything like that.
00:45:36.90
Bill
I don't give a flying fuck if anyone does. The only thing I don't want to be, I just don't want to be engulfed by it.
00:45:39.28
Mike
Right.
00:45:42.80
Bill
That's all.
00:45:43.02
Mike
Right.
00:45:43.50
Bill
But I don't want to be engulfed by cigarette smoke either. Even when I was smoking, I don't want to be engulfed by it, you know?
00:45:45.77
Mike
ah Right.
00:45:48.50
Bill
Just be mindful. So when you went to use the restroom, I'm sitting there watching, I can smell the weed and all of a sudden I get this fucking waft of it.
00:45:49.85
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:45:55.68
Bill
And I'm like, what the fuck? And I couldn't figure out where it's coming from.
00:45:57.15
Mike
he
00:45:58.28
Bill
Then it happens again, I turned around and this fucking dude's there with his woman, probably six feet behind me, not that far, seven, eight feet.
00:45:58.65
Mike
Uh huh.
00:46:05.68
Bill
And he's looking at me and he's like, what? Nothing, and then he and his woman walked away, but I'm like, I mean, it just, have some courtesy, that's all, but yeah, it's, I don't know, we were, years ago, Pearl Jam show, that Kathy and I were at at Soldier Field, you know, we're in the but upper, way, way up, nosebleed seats, no alcohol show, but there was plenty of fucking weed there because we were getting it, and it was, it was hot as fuck too, and no, no breeze, it's just like, holy shit, man, fucking weed.
00:46:08.97
Mike
Not often.
00:46:15.68
Mike
Right.
00:46:24.52
Mike
Right.
00:46:30.57
Mike
Help.
00:46:35.16
Bill
yeah Ah, but no, that's good. That's good. I'm glad you had a good time. So, hey, i got we got more stuff, but on that note, what do you think, Mike?
00:46:39.45
Mike
Yeah.
00:46:43.33
Bill
Is it time for a break?
00:46:44.76
Mike
It is, it is time for a break. All right, stay tuned for more Sober Not Mature right after these words from our sponsors. is
00:47:00.13
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. Sponsors and visitors. Again, I like that.
00:47:05.77
Mike
Right.
00:47:06.36
Bill
I like that because you know what? it It depends. It always depends.
00:47:08.73
Mike
It does, right.
00:47:09.24
Bill
But your basis is this.
00:47:10.34
Mike
Cover my bases.
00:47:14.15
Mike
This is.
00:47:15.40
Bill
All right, so I got one more, yeah i where I actually got another musical question on this, but I'll save that for later.
00:47:17.93
Mike
All
00:47:21.43
Bill
one more One more rock and roll thing.
00:47:21.46
Mike
right.
00:47:22.95
Bill
So Dave Grohl had a baby.
00:47:23.66
Mike
Yeah. yeah
00:47:28.06
Bill
ah
00:47:28.58
Mike
yeah
00:47:29.96
Bill
ah So the first of all, when Kimmy had sent it to me and I'm looking at him like, is is this a fucking joke?
00:47:33.35
Mike
Hmm.
00:47:35.72
Bill
Because I seriously thought it was like a joke meme. Then I looked it up, I'm like, holy shit. and then And then I just saw, I don't know, a couple of days ago, did you see how old the chick is?
00:47:45.32
Mike
Now that I have that whatever, you know, yeah.
00:47:46.17
Bill
20.
00:47:49.33
Mike
ah So she rock and roll guy fucked a little girl. Okay. That's never happened before.
00:47:55.02
Bill
i I know it's just, I think that's actually made it, that almost made it better. Cause I'm like, okay, so if he's going to, he's going to fuck up, you might as well just make, just go all the way, just get it, get it all fucked up.
00:48:04.39
Mike
Right.
00:48:05.63
Bill
I'll get 55 year old man. So here's the thing. And I, and a couple of different things I've got. First of all, i don't I don't condone the fact that he cheated on his wife. I mean, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. I mean, I'm not saying yeah, he's rock and roll.
00:48:16.31
Bill
She go out and fuck chicks. It is what it is. You know? um you know do I think that he's any different than um any other rock and roll guy or maybe any other guy for that you know for that instance um again you know I read this one article it's like okay so you know has been a decent person was he this you know this I don't know people were putting him on some sort of pedestal or whatever it was probably
00:48:25.41
Mike
Right.
00:48:33.79
Mike
Hmm. Right.
00:48:37.84
Bill
you know like last one of the good guys and blah, blah, blah. Well, if that's what you were doing, that's your fucking fault.
00:48:40.54
Mike
Whatever.
00:48:42.40
Bill
you know um But the person was saying that, okay, so yeah, maybe it took 30 years for him to you don't really fuck up, blah, blah, blah.
00:48:42.49
Mike
Yep.
00:48:50.30
Bill
But they're like, you know what? It's human. He made a mistake and he's trying to own up for it, which again, yeah he fucked up his marriage. He did all this different stuff and all all that, whatever. But um i just I just couldn't, um I don't know, you're 55 years old.
00:49:02.90
Bill
to
00:49:02.97
Mike
Hmm.
00:49:03.74
Bill
the First thing second thing that popped into my mind after I laughed was okay. Why have a sec to be yet?
00:49:10.58
Mike
Right.
00:49:10.85
Bill
And i bought I don't know but why aren't you wearing a fucking condom?
00:49:14.11
Mike
Hmm.
00:49:14.52
Bill
I mean just if you're gonna fuck I'm not condoning it but if you're gonna fuck around really
00:49:18.31
Mike
Great.
00:49:19.66
Bill
um And especially, so that's why I laughed at it even harder when I found out the chick was 20. I'm like, okay, if he's, you know, banging some hot 45-year-old that, you know, may be beyond the point of having kids or whatever, ah but no, he took, a oh, I just like, okay, whatever.
00:49:26.43
Mike
Hmm. Yeah.
00:49:35.64
Bill
But um but then I'm like like, I'm wondering, and I haven't seen anyone like boycott him or anything like that.
00:49:35.85
Mike
Yeah.
00:49:41.20
Mike
Hmm.
00:49:41.43
Bill
I mean, if it it just, I don't know, it just kind of, it it blew my mind, but I was, I don't know, it just made me laugh, that's all. it's just I'm like really okay yeah nice job nice job yeah exactly yeah I know it just again it just fucking made me laugh so all right um enough uh enough laughing for a minute here on a uh I guess more of a serious side so um a week ago gax it was before well a week ago what monday tuesday when we heard about it I think that he
00:49:51.55
Mike
Yeah. um It's yeah neither here nor there to me. You know, whatever. Yeah. Drummer knocked up some young girl. Okay.
00:50:10.93
Mike
isn
00:50:17.78
Mike
Yeah, something like that.
00:50:19.35
Bill
Yeah, so a buddy of ours, a guy named Joe, I'm not gonna say his last name, it's nobody's fucking business and it's unimportant you know for the masses to necessarily know, but um found out a buddy of ours died.
00:50:23.01
Mike
Right.
00:50:30.66
Bill
And to begin with, we just saw a post on Facebook, his wife posted it.
00:50:30.85
Mike
Right.
00:50:35.00
Mike
Yeah.
00:50:35.21
Bill
um Now, Joe came into the Keating Center, I know exactly when his sobriety date was, to begin with, it was July 11th of 2020, I just know that, yep, because he used to always say that, he's like, hey, look at me, 7-11.
00:50:41.06
Mike
Uh-huh. 7-11.
00:50:48.00
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:50:50.21
Bill
And I never forgot it because, again, easy easy to remember.
00:50:51.54
Mike
Yeah, yeah. Right.
00:50:53.30
Bill
um So a couple of things. He was, I forgot, well first of all, he was 43.
00:50:57.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:50:58.45
Bill
So I forgot that he was that much younger than us. i I knew he was young when he came in, but I just, I mean, well, I suppose the other the other Joe that you know came in around that time was he's got to be at around the same age, I'm thinking.
00:51:02.35
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:51:11.93
Bill
you know There was a lot of guys that were in there, Richie, Richie's youngish, mid-40s maybe.
00:51:12.11
Mike
Yeah. All right.
00:51:16.02
Mike
Sure. Yep. Right.
00:51:18.68
Bill
So um you know and we we didn't hear right away and then we saw the obituary and apparently died ah complications of pneumonia is what was in the obit.
00:51:23.47
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:51:26.73
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.
00:51:28.79
Bill
um Other thing too is that the one thing we know, and I think I heard from you and other people, we know he didn't he didn't stay sober the entire time. That much we know, right?
00:51:38.41
Mike
No. Yeah. Right.
00:51:40.22
Bill
bounced in and out. We don't know what state he was in at the time or or whatever.
00:51:41.47
Mike
Mm hmm. Nope. Right.
00:51:44.60
Bill
um I haven't seen him in years. I haven't seen him. He wasn't real active on Facebook over the last three, four years probably.
00:51:51.22
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:51:52.66
Bill
um you know So I don't know. I mean, I could speculate. what you know how does a 43-year-old die of pneumonia? I mean, it could happen to anyone, but is it is it same thing like we were talking about with Matthew Perry, years of abuse or whatever?
00:51:58.23
Mike
Right.
00:52:03.68
Bill
Yeah, with him, ended up being fucking ketamine Matthew Perry, I mean, um you know but was it was it years of use and this and that?
00:52:07.14
Mike
Right.
00:52:11.22
Bill
and you know ah a thing I don't wanna say a little thing, pneumonia is pneumonia, but you know was it a thing like that that just, you know I would think pneumonia normally wouldn't knock a 43-year-old out, right?
00:52:11.50
Mike
right
00:52:14.76
Mike
Sure.
00:52:18.10
Mike
Right. Well.
00:52:21.36
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:52:21.56
Bill
i mean
00:52:22.71
Mike
Sure. I mean, he always had, you know, um some lung problems. I do know that. um I also know he.
00:52:29.74
Bill
Did he? I don't remember that.
00:52:30.35
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He always he did like rattling cough and shit, you know, that he shouldn't have had.
00:52:35.02
Bill
Oh shit, maybe. Okay.
00:52:36.75
Mike
Yeah. And, um, and he also did a lot of the bodybuilding shit, which I know he did a lot of steroids, um, you know, which fucks you up at the, you know, so yeah, you know, again, uh, physical abuse to ourselves, um, in lots of different ways, you know, and yeah, caught up with them one way or another.
00:52:43.09
Bill
Right.
00:52:56.10
Mike
Yeah. 43. It sucks.
00:52:57.93
Bill
Right.
00:52:58.13
Mike
Right. I mean, again, you know, I don't know either. And I mean, I, could have reached out to Jess, but really wasn't my place. And yeah, you know, um you know we talked about going to the memorial.
00:53:04.94
Bill
Right.
00:53:10.48
Mike
um I had stuff going on and you had stuff going on and yeah, like you said, you know. um early sobriety. Yeah, I was I was pretty close with Joe. um And his wife and his kid and you know, yeah, you know, we hung out quite a bit.
00:53:26.21
Mike
um I know more than you did. ah You know, but yeah, like, same thing, you know, I he he bounced, he was doing his own thing there for a while.
00:53:28.20
Bill
Right.
00:53:35.47
Mike
You know, I don't hang out with non sober people just kind of works out that way. They don't want to hang out with me either. Trust me.
00:53:41.61
Bill
Right.
00:53:42.46
Mike
ah And so yeah, you know, we grew apart and, you know, lost touch and whatever. I had, I think the last time I actually saw him was at a meeting, um, God, six years ago.
00:53:56.94
Bill
Right.
00:53:57.47
Mike
Yeah. know Yeah. And, um, yeah, it just, it sucks, man. I hate, I, yeah yeah, it sucks. You know, too fucking young and leaving people behind and, but remember kids, we're not hurting anybody but ourselves, even if it's not, you know, that it's,
00:54:05.46
Bill
right
00:54:12.19
Bill
Right.
00:54:15.76
Mike
whatever, man, you don't drop dead at 43 because you're fucking healthy.
00:54:20.53
Bill
Right.
00:54:21.32
Mike
Yeah.
00:54:21.44
Bill
Yeah, huge, most most people that are, you know, and again, we everything we just talked about before too, you know, the, the abuse and you want to speak of the gratitude and you know, I've talked about it that that first, when I went in for my first physical 11 months, I was fucking scared, you know, because I, I knew what condition I was in when when I, you know, went into detox and I'm like, I'm like, fuck, man, I don't know, you know, but
00:54:26.45
Mike
Mm hmm. Well. Mm hmm. Right. Mm hmm. Right. Yeah.
00:54:44.26
Bill
I'm so far, you know, I don't believe in knocking on wood, but I almost did.
00:54:46.26
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:54:47.95
Bill
But I mean, it is it is what it is. I all those fucking years, you know, maybe whatever ends up killing me in the end will be a result of I don't I don't doubt it.
00:54:53.05
Mike
All right.
00:54:55.82
Bill
You know, I mean, it could be a contributing factor. But you know that the thing that isn't when we were. When I saw it and I'm like, okay, i'm like I've got the time and I could do this and that's why I texted you.
00:55:03.53
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:06.48
Bill
and but um i and I put in the text, I'm like, well, you know we got a podcast topic. and i said i could I think I said to you, I said I could be i could be swayed either way. you know and and That would be as far as whether I went or not.
00:55:16.25
Mike
listen Right.
00:55:19.24
Bill
and The fact that Yeah, there's like I think this what they must be must be a high school football time there is I forget when we recorded this time of night It's like sound of like thunder drum i'm like is it fucking reading there's but the high school, you know, it's right up the road So it must be right before the game.
00:55:34.47
Mike
Right.
00:55:35.59
Bill
But anyhow, so um but the point was it was a
00:55:36.67
Mike
Right.
00:55:39.69
Mike
Right.
00:55:40.27
Bill
ah There was, it was a sense of relief that if you weren't gonna go, I'm like, okay, cool, I'm not gonna go. you know Because pardon me, and there was a few people, and I can think of two off the top of my head um throughout the time that we you know were sober and that had passed away, and um I didn't wanna go to their funeral, because I didn't want to, um i just I'm like, I just wanna remember them for who they were.
00:55:45.26
Mike
right
00:55:53.93
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:56:01.62
Bill
I don't wanna sit there and look at them in a fucking box, I just didn't want to.
00:56:05.93
Mike
Right.
00:56:06.40
Bill
you know
00:56:07.12
Mike
Yeah.
00:56:07.36
Bill
and And to your point, and you're right, I think the first the first year and a half, maybe two years, um you know, and I spent a lot of time around Joe, I saw him at meetings and all that stuff, and especially at the Keating Center, we were all kind of, you know, pretty close and stuff.
00:56:13.43
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:17.27
Mike
Sure.
00:56:21.61
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:21.66
Bill
and Um, you know again, he was one of those that those group of guys, you know that came in that that summer You know from us in april through november there's these core group of guys that you know There was a number of them that uh, we might be down to eight or nine, you know that are still alive and sober you know out of the 15 or so that would that stayed sober for a number of years, but um Yeah, it it hit me when I when I saw it i'm just like fuck me man
00:56:27.44
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
00:56:33.64
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:37.72
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:56:42.03
Mike
Uh huh.
00:56:46.74
Mike
All right.
00:56:47.67
Bill
you know and again i haven't seen him in a while he's not like he wasn't one of our our close circle of friends but again it was there there was that that early connection that you know that i had with him and um i'm like you said you know again not hurting anyone but yourself you know ha ha type of thing and not laughing but you know what i mean
00:56:52.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:57.02
Mike
Oh, yeah. yeah
00:57:06.48
Bill
Um, but it, but it is, I mean, all the, all this, all this shit, man. And I, I thought about, you know, his daughter, Tony, and I thought about, you know, think about Jess, I forgot they'd been married for 10 years, you know, that fucking blew my mind too.
00:57:12.20
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah.
00:57:18.54
Bill
When, uh, when I saw that in the old bit, but, um, yeah, it was just one of those, I'm like, okay, I'm fine. I'm okay with not going. I remember, I remember skinny little Joe from years ago that, you know,
00:57:28.18
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:57:29.09
Bill
It wasn't ah you know a fucking pile of muscles and working at the car wash and um all those sort of things.
00:57:32.67
Mike
Yep. Yeah.
00:57:35.23
Bill
Just good dude and I enjoyed the hell of it and I'll miss him.
00:57:38.56
Mike
Yeah, me too.
00:57:40.32
Bill
Yeah, just like you say, it's just, I don't know, one of these one of those things. Anyone that's out there, once again, if you're new, the unfortunate part is that um this is unfortunately normal.
00:57:51.82
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:57:54.36
Bill
um I Don't know how I've lost count, you know, I mean it of the number of people that that we've known You know that we've been close or close ish with and then God don't even don't even start counting the people that are on the fringe You know friends of friends that I knew who they were type of thing, you know um And literally you forget the names and faces, but it's been it's been so many.
00:57:57.90
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:58:10.40
Mike
sir
00:58:14.81
Bill
It's fucking heartbreaking sometimes but I No bad examples, right?
00:58:16.58
Mike
Right.
00:58:19.12
Bill
you know it should it I've got a the same thing too.
00:58:20.42
Mike
Yeah.
00:58:22.71
Bill
This is another thing I suppose you know that we could focus on. We could focus on this and like, well, what's the fucking point? He was a good dude. He did this and he did that. What's the point?
00:58:30.31
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:58:31.19
Bill
Which is not the case. I mean, I never think that way, but I think it'd be easy for one of us, quote unquote, to to get into a funk when you know someone like that dies, right?
00:58:39.92
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah. You know, again, focus on self man, I feel bad for the family and and right.
00:58:44.94
Bill
Right? Mm-hmm.
00:58:48.05
Mike
You know, um yeah. and Like I said, man, I fuck I spent hell I knew his parents and you know III couple years there.
00:58:54.86
Bill
Right.
00:58:57.30
Mike
We were pretty fucking close friends and you know been to several of his houses, you know, cuz they they moved around a bit and oh Yeah, it just it sucks.
00:59:07.95
Mike
It sucks man.
00:59:08.24
Bill
Right.
00:59:09.20
Mike
um I Feel bad for Jess and Tony and and yeah all of them um No bad examples, you know, I, I to think I'll, uh, yeah, I won't do steroids and I won't, I won't lift any weights today.
00:59:18.11
Bill
Right.
00:59:27.22
Bill
Yeah, that's true, I don't have to worry about that. I'm not gonna get into the, I won't get into the bodybuilding. I can pretty much assure you of that. Not even pretty much, I can 100% guarantee I will never, if I didn't wanna get into, I didn't wanna get into weights when you know when I was in high school, when I could have.
00:59:35.83
Mike
Yep. Mm hmm.
00:59:42.95
Bill
And I played soccer and I ran track and it was people that you know did just you know lightweights. I joined the club at one point years ago, years ago, um mid 20s, I think, maybe mid to late 20s.
00:59:50.77
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:59:54.79
Bill
because I thought that if I joined the club, I would you know be able to put smoke in and whatever.
00:59:59.65
Mike
Heh heh heh heh heh.
01:00:00.23
Bill
this and because that was
01:00:00.81
Mike
You drinking? Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
01:00:02.30
Bill
i no no no here and here's a That never even crossed my mind, even once. It was the smoking part. I thought I was going to try to quit smoking. But here's the funny part. This club I went to at the time, it was called the, uh, it was in Waukesha where I lived.
01:00:15.21
Bill
So it was a Waukesha athletic club. It turned out to be, um, there's now a a string of them all around there. It's Wisconsin athletic club now.
01:00:22.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:00:23.00
Bill
So they're a big chain now, but, um, It's on my way home. Just pull in there, you know, whatever it was. And when you sign up, I mean, they got you for like fucking 18 months, whether you go or don't, you know, it's like it was like 30 bucks a month or some stupid shit.
01:00:31.69
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah.
01:00:35.26
Mike
Nope.
01:00:35.49
Bill
And I was going on a regular basis. It's just going, hitting the bike, doing a little bit of lightweights, legs, arms, whatever I did. I wanted to tone up, just get some cardio, do whatever.
01:00:41.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:00:43.54
Bill
But this club had a fucking bar in it.
01:00:47.52
Mike
Mm.
01:00:49.21
Bill
Swear to God.
01:00:49.94
Mike
It's Wisconsin.
01:00:50.16
Bill
So I know.
01:00:51.71
Mike
What do you expect? There's a bar in everything in Wisconsin.
01:00:52.74
Bill
So. e
01:00:54.09
Mike
There's a bar in churches in Wisconsin.
01:00:56.81
Bill
So later after you're done, you know, it was a guy who ran into, um actually I was, I think the first three, four times I went there and I ran into a guy I used to work with. um So he ended up, ah he'd be there sometimes at the same time as I would. So he and I would sit at the bar and have a beer after a week.
01:01:12.21
Bill
did a fucking workout it was it i started i think doing it in probably november i made it until um to the weather i got nice i'm like fuck this man i want to get a go sit outside go do whatever and you know i i stopped and i so i paid for it for a year and a half and probably went there for like four fucking months but um no weightlifting is not uh that's nothing i'm gonna get into but um
01:01:12.45
Mike
Nice.
01:01:20.87
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:01:34.55
Bill
But anyhow to your point I guess back to Joe real quick is just yeah his you know our thoughts go out to obviously his family and his wife and his child and um Yeah, the the people that like you say the people that you know that we leave behind, right?
01:01:47.10
Mike
Mhm. Yup.
01:01:48.41
Bill
so all right, um Let's do one sober. I got a couple of stories for you too, but I got a couple of of sober things here
01:01:57.47
Mike
right.
01:01:57.76
Bill
So this was from a while ago and it's funny because I think I must have written this down out of God grant me around Christmas time because and you'll see in a minute. It says, today I will list five things that make me merry.
01:02:08.56
Mike
Uh
01:02:12.67
Bill
So I looked at this and I'm, this is one of the ones that's been on here clearly for a long time.
01:02:14.08
Mike
huh.
01:02:16.67
Bill
um You know, so obviously let's look at it this today. I'll list the five things that make me happy.
01:02:20.56
Mike
Mm
01:02:21.44
Bill
When is the last time that I've done these things? So do you have anything?
01:02:24.12
Mike
hmm.
01:02:25.51
Bill
um I don't know. I mean, it doesn't even have to be five things like top, top one or two, top three, whatever things that really, you know, like if nothing else, this is what's going to make my day.
01:02:36.04
Mike
make me marry. hey Well, you know, I did one last night, saw a fucking couple killer rock and roll bands.
01:02:41.89
Bill
Right.
01:02:45.04
Mike
Um, yeah. Uh, you know, got a little dressed up and went out with my lady. and Yeah. No, it was all. Yeah. That did one last night. Um, I don't know.
01:02:56.52
Mike
Shit. Uh, ah yeah You know, being a part of, even though it's a real goddamn pain in the ass, I'm doing plenty of that. Like I said, Keating Center's got a fundraiser tomorrow and, uh, and then our, my home group anniversary on Sunday.
01:03:08.52
Bill
Right.
01:03:12.88
Mike
Um, yeah, I don't want to do any of it and I know I'm going to be fucking happy when I do it. So yeah, there you go. Um, being a part of something bigger than myself does make me happy.
01:03:24.64
Mike
Make me, make me marry.
01:03:24.96
Bill
Right.
01:03:27.57
Mike
he
01:03:27.73
Bill
Yeah, it's, it actually made me laugh. I put a star by that one. Cause I just, I glanced at that before we, before we started doing this and I'm like, that's gotta be a fucking Christmas one. It just has to be.
01:03:37.43
Mike
Right.
01:03:38.27
Bill
So, ah so those are the things, rock and roll, spending time with your lady, being a part of.
01:03:42.72
Mike
Yep. Yeah, that's, that's, those are top three.
01:03:46.42
Bill
Yeah, and you know what I'm being a part of is, you know, I'd be hanging out with my kids doing that. I get to do that on Sunday.
01:03:52.22
Mike
Right.
01:03:52.81
Bill
I'm heading up to Wisconsin and I'm just, it doesn't matter to me.
01:03:54.11
Mike
Cool.
01:03:55.92
Bill
I, you know, I'm driving, you know, it's five and a half, six hours of driving back and forth.
01:03:59.21
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:03:59.40
Bill
I last couple of years I've done it, you know, honor or around my birthday and. i I don't care, it doesn't matter to me, because that hour or whatever I get to spend with my my kids and my grandson, I mean, it's just fucking wonderful.
01:04:09.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:10.36
Bill
That shit makes me happy.
01:04:10.92
Mike
Right.
01:04:11.83
Bill
Yes, going out and seeing all these fucking things that I'm doing, that makes me extremely happy.
01:04:15.37
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:16.50
Bill
It's, you know, their experiences. But yeah, to you know what I thought about, because we were going back and forth on the the Facebook page with the poker thing, which goes along with being a part of, it's not really, I enjoy playing poker.
01:04:23.91
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:28.51
Mike
Sure.
01:04:29.00
Bill
um You know, but it's it's playing poker with that group because I don't think I would I wouldn't go out of my way to sit down with just a random group of people to play poker That doesn't I I don't I really don't think I would I'm even I was gonna say even in a casino I've never I've sat down and played blackjack, you know, but I don't think I'd sit down and play poker I'd be too intimidated to play around a big group, you know
01:04:32.39
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:38.13
Mike
Oh no.
01:04:50.13
Mike
Right.
01:04:50.93
Bill
um but yeah things like that kind of the same thing and I do I do like going to festivals and concerts and and that sort of thing I don't do it as much as you do but you know in the funny part is all these different things well I guess me me going around and seeing all these things that's solo adventures but I I'd be just as happy doing it with somebody else, but it's kind of funny, the two of us, not that we're non-people-ish, sort of.
01:05:08.18
Mike
Sure.
01:05:12.62
Bill
um I've gotten less people-ish over the years.
01:05:13.08
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:05:15.98
Bill
um i don't I don't need groups of people as much as I used to, um which is which is weird, because i' and I think it's probably happened just the sober that I've gotten being more comfortable in my skin.
01:05:18.42
Mike
No.
01:05:26.73
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.
01:05:28.86
Bill
We've talked about that, you know ah which is,
01:05:30.41
Mike
And less tolerant of nonsense.
01:05:32.70
Bill
You know what, that's that's another thing too. I guess I wasn't even thinking about that, but that's a goddamn good point. Yeah, it's it is.
01:05:38.13
Mike
Nope.
01:05:39.06
Bill
It's a nonsense. I don't wanna be around the fucking nonsense. Yeah.
01:05:41.94
Mike
nope
01:05:44.35
Bill
i never i didn't I didn't think about that, but yeah, even with going out to, like I said, that one trail that I went to when I pulled in, it was all the people.
01:05:50.63
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:05:51.36
Bill
I'm like, oh, fuck me. So I'm like thinking again in my head, this is gonna take away from my experience. What are you people doing here? you know But it didn't, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't affect it at all.
01:05:58.26
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:06:01.59
Bill
but Yeah, but I mean it is it's it's kind of just kind of funny that the things we're talking about are actually you know people stuff you know.
01:06:08.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:06:09.84
Bill
Surprisingly okay so now that now that we're all Mary.
01:06:10.48
Mike
Bright.
01:06:13.82
Mike
Hehehehe. And bright.
01:06:16.02
Bill
Mary Ann Bright. um All right, so from keep it simple, the best leaders are those who know how to follow.
01:06:20.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:06:24.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:06:25.63
Bill
Do you agree with that? And also, do you consider yourself to be a leader or a follower? But let's start with the beginning. The saying again, or the statement was the best leaders are those who know how to follow agree or disagree.
01:06:39.37
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, I, you know, odd as it pertains to the program, which most things do.
01:06:47.60
Bill
Right.
01:06:47.66
Mike
oh Yeah, absolutely. you know um the best yeah How am I gonna show somebody else how to do this thing if I don't follow directions and do the thing? So yeah, absolutely. you know the best i The better I am at helping someone else you know lead someone through the steps, ah you know I have to be good at following the steps and following someone else. So absolutely, that makes perfect sense.
01:07:14.87
Mike
Um as far as life goes, I don't know ah Um, I you know Um
01:07:20.89
Bill
do Do you consider yourself to be more of a leader or a follower in a general sense, do you think?
01:07:28.06
Mike
I consider myself to be neither. um you know I'd rather not follow someone else and I as sure as hell don't want anybody following me. um you know I want to go out and do things my way. I'm an alcoholic. I want to i want i know the best way. Don't you know that?
01:07:49.42
Mike
um And yeah, you know ah thankfully I've learned that as it pertains to the program, the steps, yes, I have to follow and I have to lead.
01:07:59.22
Bill
Right.
01:07:59.34
Mike
oh But other aspects of life, not so much. know I wanna be left alone and I wanna do my own thing. And you know again, I've been taught how to do it the right way now, um as opposed to the other way I used to do it.
01:08:14.35
Mike
But um yeah, to my own self be true, I still wanna Do it on my own and do it my way and then yeah. So, you know, I don't know. I'm neither and I'm both and all of the above.
01:08:30.96
Bill
one Once again, one of those questions where it's just basically yes. Do you consider yourself a leader or a follower?
01:08:35.78
Mike
Pretty much.
01:08:37.51
Bill
Yes, yeah, yeah I do.
01:08:38.08
Mike
Yeah, actually no. And that one, the answer is no.
01:08:41.10
Bill
Right. Okay. No, no.
01:08:43.49
Mike
Except when it comes to the program, then yes.
01:08:46.49
Bill
Well, and you know, that the funny thing is, is that like when you were talking about the, um you know, the best leaders are learning to to know how to follow and you're right. I mean, with the, and I think when I wrote it down, I, it kind of crossed my head because I'm like, that's, that can go either way. And so I thought it'd be a good conversation.
01:09:01.91
Bill
um because the i can lead if somebody asks me to what lead something or a project or anything like that, I no i have no problem doing it.
01:09:08.94
Mike
Right. Yeah.
01:09:10.58
Bill
you know So i can I can do that.
01:09:10.77
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:09:13.88
Bill
But I also, to your point, I become um i never used to like to follow or be be led.
01:09:16.91
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:09:21.04
Bill
you know But you know that that comes with, once again, being sober, being more sober, being still more sober.
01:09:21.17
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:09:25.37
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:09:27.94
Mike
Right.
01:09:28.07
Bill
and and learning, you know obviously, that the things that we have. But I think the coolest part is is realizing that um you know the when we need to be a leader and when we need to be a follower, and I think that goes back to, at least for me, a thought I thought about the ego part of it.
01:09:40.43
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:09:44.85
Bill
I need to be able to you know set my ego aside and say, okay, right now at this moment, do I know the best way?
01:09:48.02
Mike
Right.
01:09:50.84
Bill
If not, I know somebody else will.
01:09:52.29
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:09:53.12
Bill
How did this person get to that point? you know
01:09:55.35
Mike
Right.
01:09:56.04
Bill
but then also there's there's somebody else that that's not at my point so i can help them so it's this it is it's a give and take you know knowing when to lead and knowing when you have to to follow so it it is yeah are you a leader or a follower no absolutely not yeah yeah yes but absolutely not yeah
01:10:04.63
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:10:09.58
Mike
No. this And yes.
01:10:14.60
Mike
Right.
01:10:17.48
Mike
Hope that's clear enough for all you out there.
01:10:19.71
Bill
this Yeah, did we, you know, write write that one down, everyone. If you're unsure of what we said, we do have a transcript transcript for the episode.
01:10:22.80
Mike
Right.
01:10:25.89
Mike
ye
01:10:26.62
Bill
You read it a couple of times and see if it doesn't make even more sense.
01:10:29.64
Mike
Or less.
01:10:30.52
Bill
Yeah, exactly. See yes yeah see if we can actually confuse you in writing.
01:10:35.92
Mike
Right.
01:10:36.21
Bill
um But no, I just, I don't know. it's ah I haven't looked at that in a while, and it it is it's ah it's a thinking one, but I i and like what you said, but I also like what what she didn't say.
01:10:42.92
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:10:48.30
Bill
Alright, so a couple of oh so it's and I didn't mean for this. This is two weeks ago. I mean, I've been back from North Carolina for two weeks now as of tomorrow.
01:10:54.48
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:10:57.52
Bill
And obviously we had Dr. Sarah on last week, so they get a time to bring it up. But um this one was this is just fucking weird. We're heading into the spooky season anyhow. So this is kind of it's kind of a ghost story.
01:11:05.08
Mike
Aha.
01:11:06.81
Bill
Not really, but Um, so the last night that I was, that I was there, um, and again, I'm in this cabin up on top of a fucking hill. It's surrounded by woods. There's nobody fucking around. I can't see anything out there. Um, and I was up a little bit later cause the, I almost went to bed early cause the, the Packer game was on. I'm like, yeah, they're going to win and that started getting good. So I was up until, I don't know, close to midnight. I wanted to get up at like five cause I packs everything up and get out long drive back, blah, blah, blah.
01:11:33.03
Bill
So I woke up, um something woke me up, and i it was like 3.30 in the morning, okay? So I'd been asleep for like fucking three and a half hours. And I heard um in where the where the bedroom window was, face the side of the house, and there was like this patio area um down below where the grill was and everything like that.
01:11:53.57
Bill
And what I heard was what woke me up, and it sounded like ah like a scraping, okay?
01:11:58.84
Mike
Mm.
01:11:59.75
Bill
And... Literally, um I swear to fucking God, it sounded like almost like a shovel scraping on rock, okay? And again, I wake up and I'm hearing this and I'm like, what the fuck, you know?
01:12:13.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:12:14.64
Bill
And I'm half asleep or whatever, so I, of course, I get up and I walk outside and I'm standing out there on the porch with my phone, got the flashlight on, I'm shining it all around, and I'm shining it down.
01:12:24.99
Bill
And as I get out, by the time I get up and walk outside, I don't hear anything anymore, you know?
01:12:29.34
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:12:30.14
Bill
And then I'm sitting there shining this like down there and around the house or whatever. And then it clicks and I'm like, what the fuck if somebody was out here?
01:12:38.54
Mike
Yeah, right.
01:12:39.63
Bill
I mean, it but again, I'm half asleep or whatever. Don't even think about this before I get out there. And I'm like, what the fuck? So I just back into the house, lay back down.
01:12:47.50
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:12:49.34
Bill
And you know I don't hear it anymore. So i here's the thing, I don't know what I heard or if I heard anything now, okay?
01:12:55.20
Mike
over
01:12:56.20
Bill
But in the morning I look at, I'm looking it over there, kind of walk down, I'm like, was somebody digging a fucking hole for me or what?
01:12:58.87
Mike
definite Right sir fresh grave Uh
01:13:01.60
Bill
you know Yeah, so is there a hole anywhere? So last thing I thought like I think it was on the drive back I was thinking I'm like, oh fuck me and I gotta I got me but the roof it's like a steel roof, right?
01:13:13.02
Mike
-huh Sure Right, yeah, it's probably raccoon but right
01:13:13.59
Bill
It could have been an animal up there. It could have been a bird It could have been I don't even know bird I could have been a squirrel or anything like that scrape it on that steel It could have been anything like that, you know um but Oh yeah, yeah, there you go.
01:13:26.39
Bill
Raccoon or something like that. So clearly nothing, nothing that could have been dangerous, but I'm staying, again, I'm standing outside in literally in the middle of what feels like in the middle of fucking nowhere where I was, you know, and just in my shorts and t-shirt with a fucking flashlight on my phone.
01:13:35.72
Mike
Yep.
01:13:39.98
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:13:40.63
Bill
And I'm like, you're a, you're a fucking idiot.
01:13:43.26
Mike
right Yeah, there's a seven foot dude with a shovel.
01:13:43.45
Bill
You know? yeah
01:13:48.51
Mike
oh Yep.
01:13:48.89
Bill
Yeah. And I'm like, well, okay. Well, I guess this is the way I go out. So all right. and That is what it is.
01:13:54.24
Mike
I was going to say, I've seen that movie, Cabin in the Woods. Right.
01:13:57.67
Bill
I know, I know. And that's, that's the thing, you know, it's all, you always see the, let's see the black people in the movie going, white people don't go in there.
01:14:04.89
Mike
Right.
01:14:05.01
Bill
Don't do that.
01:14:06.38
Mike
Yep.
01:14:06.40
Bill
Why, why do the white people always always have to go take a look?
01:14:09.27
Mike
Night.
01:14:09.32
Bill
And there I was, I was a fucking, yeah, there I was like, like a stupid white dude walking out going, Oh, what's out here.
01:14:09.84
Mike
Well, who there you are. okay
01:14:16.72
Mike
Hi there. What school do you go to?
01:14:18.25
Bill
ah
01:14:20.60
Bill
yeah Exactly. yeah Just like Jesus fucking Christ. But no, it really did. I mean, clearly, obviously, it freaked me out. But um whatever it was, it was nothing. I had a great time. But um it was funny on on the way back, though, driving out of there. You know, because ah it's like the first 45 minutes of the drive out of there. And I forgot about it when I came in, because again, the last 45 minutes to an hour, you get off the main highway and stuff. And it's just this windy road kind of through the mountains here in Tennessee and stuff, getting over to where I was in North Carolina. So these windy roads all around the mountains and stuff like that, fucking beautiful, you know?
01:14:51.13
Mike
Yeah.
01:14:51.85
Bill
And get there and get on the highway, you know, so I'm going through and going out and it's like the further north that I go, you know You start to see the hills go away and the mountains go away and the beauty goes away And by the time I get it, you know, you start getting in I'm like, well, this is fucking depressing
01:15:05.63
Mike
Right.
01:15:06.70
Bill
I mean, for three goddamn weeks everywhere I drove, there was mountains all over the place and fucking woods and streams and bluffs.
01:15:09.43
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
01:15:13.25
Bill
And I'm like, there's nothing but fucking flatness.
01:15:16.00
Mike
Right.
01:15:16.10
Bill
The fuck is?
01:15:16.74
Mike
Then you hit Ohio.
01:15:18.76
Bill
Yeah, in Indiana and Illinois, you know, shit, I'm like, yeah, whatever.
01:15:20.84
Mike
mrs
01:15:22.43
Bill
But it was just, it was just kind of funny. It's just like, you know, you just see everything like somebody, like an air mattress deflating its sure as you're driving home going, well, this is no, this is no fun anymore.
01:15:28.31
Mike
hey hey Right. There's a reason I left.
01:15:33.44
Bill
But no.
01:15:36.05
Bill
but no, it was a, again, wonderful time. It was just, that was, that was the last thing. That was the last thing that I had on that part.
01:15:40.64
Mike
and
01:15:41.21
Bill
But um so the, oh, last thing. So I said, well, it happened when I was there, but I forgot the same thing, forgot to bring it up. I went, inadvertently went the better part of a week without drinking caffeine.
01:15:56.57
Mike
Okay.
01:15:57.81
Bill
So the kind of coffee that I buy, I can't think of the name of it now, but all of the, um, I buy the bags of coffee, not the, not the container with their bags of it.
01:16:01.78
Mike
Uh
01:16:06.63
Bill
And cause it's relatively inexpensive to get it at Walmart or buy or whatever, same brand.
01:16:06.62
Mike
huh.
01:16:10.59
Bill
It's something that starts with a G, but it's actually pretty good coffee.
01:16:13.64
Mike
hu
01:16:13.73
Bill
and um all the kind of the house blend, the the Columbia, that I've got one other type of, they're all like in the same package and all like with this green labeling on it.
01:16:23.99
Bill
So whatever it was, i I bought two bags of it one time and anyhow, all done with this bag and I'm about to throw it out and I look at it and it was decaf. And I'm like, I looked at it, I'm like, what the fuck?
01:16:37.82
Bill
And I had just bought a new bag when I went grocery shopping that day. I looked in the freezer and I looked at it and I'm like, it's the same color, but I had bought the house blend and, you know, the Columbia brand and that was fine, but the house blend was the decaf.
01:16:41.69
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:16:52.22
Bill
So when I was at, next time I was at the grocery store, I looked and that's what it is. The regular, the decaf looked the same. It's just, it's got like in red where it says decaf.
01:16:59.72
Mike
ah
01:16:59.88
Bill
So I grabbed the wrong bag, but so it takes me maybe not a full week, but goddamn close to it too. And so I'm drinking decaf, you know? So do you remember when I said that day that I woke up that I was, I really, it was one of the the days we recorded, I think, or the day before we recorded and I'm like, God, I'm so fucking tired.
01:17:15.91
Mike
Hm?
01:17:19.15
Bill
And when I said I was nauseous and whatever. Yeah, that would have been like three days, two days into, I'm guessing probably two days, like a Tuesday and I probably would have started that new bag of coffee and like a Sunday.
01:17:24.37
Mike
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
01:17:31.67
Bill
So I'm like two days into like no caffeine. I had soda, you know, in there, but almost no caffeine um where I'm usually drinking caffeine all day.
01:17:34.69
Mike
right right
01:17:38.92
Bill
So I'm not sleeping well.
01:17:39.17
Mike
right
01:17:40.52
Bill
I'm tired as fuck. I'm nauseous. um And they're like, you know, so they're like, sometimes you could actually feel almost anxious, which I was.
01:17:47.87
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:17:48.10
Bill
And I'm like, I couldn't fucking figure it out. So I looked it up and I'm like look up. I'm like, god I never ever ever looked up with caffeine Oh headache had a fucking monster headache for a few days, too
01:17:58.61
Mike
Yeah, right. That I know.
01:18:00.15
Bill
Yeah, again, imagine that, right? And I can't fucking figure it out.
01:18:03.71
Mike
is
01:18:04.02
Bill
So, and I look up all this stuff and I knew the headache part of it, the caffeine withdrawals, but yeah, it's like restlessness, irritableness, nauseous, all this different stuff.
01:18:06.89
Mike
Uh huh. Yeah.
01:18:12.39
Bill
And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? And the day that I remembered it, um I think it was, it was a Thursday or a Friday. So might've been the day that we, I don't know, whatever it was, whoever, whatever we recorded, I forgot to bring it up.
01:18:25.71
Bill
It was you and I recording on a Thursday, the last time we did before Dr. Sarah.
01:18:29.37
Mike
Right.
01:18:29.66
Bill
and I forgot to tell you about it but so that was the day that I started on caffeine again so um I you know it's fine I wasn't like jittery or anything like that but I get in bed that night and you know every once in a while when you lay down and just sometimes you lay down you're like oh this feels fucking good I'm gonna get a great night's sleep so I'm laying there for about 10 minutes and it's like you see in the cartoons where somebody just opens up their eyes and they're wide awake and that's what I felt like I'm like oh fuck
01:18:34.43
Mike
Ah.
01:18:38.25
Mike
Right.
01:18:43.12
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:18:55.08
Bill
I'm like, I've been at a caffeine for probably, I don't know, five days or six days.
01:18:59.34
Mike
Mmm nice That's good, oof Right
01:18:59.57
Bill
And now I just ran caffeine all fucking day. I couldn't get to sleep.
01:19:04.55
Bill
It hasn't happened since, but now I even myself back out again. I'm back on the stuff, I'm good. I got myself well again after a couple of days, but i was it was, again, I have no issue with, um maybe it's someday, you know at some point, you know I'll quit drinking caffeine or whatever, but at least, I mean, I'd like to know.
01:19:27.09
Bill
that I'm doing it because if if I did it I would taper I would go because they got you know there's decaf but there's also half calf and you could do all these different things like you should taper down so you don't have these fucking problems right yeah so yeah I'm out there I'm out there looking looking for people digging graves and you know I'm I'm going off a cat I'm going off a caffeine cold turkey I know yeah
01:19:33.30
Mike
Mm-hmm, right Yeah, right so you don't have a fucking seizure and die ah yeah yeah yeah yeah Wow yeah living on the edge Wow
01:19:52.35
Bill
Yeah, and not even on purpose, not even on purpose, so. All right, another sober thing. So the, this had, I don't know if it had to do with a reading or not, but always or never. Okay, so the word always or never. Is there ever a time that you think when it's appropriate to go to either one of those extremes to say always this or never that?
01:20:17.29
Mike
Nope.
01:20:20.39
Bill
All right, next question.
01:20:21.67
Mike
Right. Um, no, I mean, you know, I mean the easy one for us is, you know, I'm never going to drink again, but that's fucking dangerous too.
01:20:31.73
Bill
Right, exactly.
01:20:32.31
Mike
Right, you know, i said that's the way they taught us, man. No, I'm not drinking today. That's that's your one day at a time, man. um I can't, you know, I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna drink ever again, but I don't know. I don't fucking know.
01:20:48.46
Mike
You know, I I sure as hell don't know if i'm ever doing drugs again. I don't you know, I know i'm not doing them today You know, it's uh, hell I got three and a half hours here three hours and 40 No 39 minutes, uh to get through today You know, so, um, yeah i'm pretty pretty goddamn sure i'm not doing it today.
01:20:53.33
Bill
Right.
01:21:04.50
Bill
Right.
01:21:10.49
Mike
That's that's pretty much a never But uh, yeah, it always is really fucking dangerous No, I'm always going to, I'm always, no, fuck that man. I gotta to be open to change.
01:21:22.01
Mike
you know My way is not the right way. um This is the way I do it. This is always the way I've done it. This is the way I'm always going to do it. I don't think so.
01:21:30.96
Bill
Right?
01:21:31.30
Mike
yeah know I'd be dead if I... kept that shit up. And I did for a long time and got real close. Um, so yes, always had never, uh, you know, the only absolutes are the absolutes and they're not even absolute because they're just, uh, goals to shoot for, you know, ah the honesty.
01:21:37.82
Bill
ah Right.
01:21:50.05
Mike
Hmm. I try to be as honest as I can, but I can't be. completely honest because I'm a fucking drunk and a liar and a cheat and a thief.
01:21:57.01
Bill
hey
01:21:59.01
Mike
Um, you know, a pure, not 100% pure, by any means, never will be. These are things I shoot for. You know, unselfish, hmm, that wouldn't happen.
01:22:11.34
Mike
Love, hmm, that guy just cut me off again. I do not love him.
01:22:16.54
Bill
yeah
01:22:16.85
Mike
Uh,
01:22:19.10
Mike
you know, so yeah, even the absolutes are absolute. I was taught that by some people.
01:22:22.51
Bill
Right.
01:22:24.01
Mike
Um, yeah, no, always and never are real fucking dangerous. And so absolutely not. Wait, wait, what?
01:22:31.27
Bill
Right.
01:22:34.96
Bill
never say never always say always but no and i thought about the same thing because there are there are readings that we um that we read you know when the books the the normal books that we read that talk about you know um and i i'm sure i don't know if the words are this way but probably along the lines um am i convinced that i can never drink alcohol again or i can ah you know never this or whatever
01:22:36.21
Mike
Thank you.
01:22:46.43
Mike
Right.
01:22:55.09
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:22:57.42
Bill
And i specifically will say to myself well you know i'm pretty convinced today i won't you know in um because it makes me nervous to to put an end result on that in this goes back to to what we were taught to begin with nobody ever told us that we were never going to be able to drink or use again.
01:23:01.35
Mike
Yep.
01:23:04.65
Mike
Hmm. Right.
01:23:13.56
Mike
Right.
01:23:13.64
Bill
What they told us was we're gonna show you why you will need to you know.
01:23:16.53
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:23:17.41
Bill
and ah that's the thing i have the tools right at this moment and hopefully for the rest of the day and if i work at it do the same things tomorrow i have a good chance tomorrow where i'm i'm not gonna need to use a substance you know.
01:23:21.11
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:23:26.95
Mike
Yep.
01:23:30.89
Bill
But yeah always are never and you know i i know i i've said it on here a number of times you know i'm not an always a never guy but. you know and say you know this is what i usually do type of thing even go go so far as you don't like our routine you know i mean i get up every morning and um to this day i have always i've never missed yeah i can say that i've never missed the 24-hour book i've never missed doing my prayers i've never missed two of my readings in the morning um you know and
01:23:43.41
Mike
right here Right. Right. Right.
01:23:56.63
Mike
Right.
01:23:58.51
Bill
These are the books that I have always read, but I mean, who knows what, I mean, I i have no reason to think that I will stop reading the 24 hour book or God grant me or whatever, but I don't know, you know, same thing.
01:24:07.42
Mike
No, right. Hmm. Yeah.
01:24:11.75
Bill
You know, I mean, I go along this path of what I did, you know, for a certain number of years, what I do today, but all of a sudden that this works and this adds to and whatever and things change.
01:24:20.55
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:24:23.12
Bill
um Yeah, I mean, I think that that goes along with we we have to be flexible, I think, right?
01:24:28.79
Mike
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we do. So right. Yeah. I, I know I read those things this morning. I'm pretty sure I'm going to read them tomorrow, but hadn't happened yet. So we'll see, you know, I'm pretty sure I will. Yeah. ah But I'll, yeah, always and never now there there are no absolutes, including the absolutes.
01:24:50.59
Bill
Right, okay, cool. Yeah, and like I said, I don't remember, um i I say that all the time, I have no idea how I how i came to that conclusion, or that that statement, or where I came from, but okay, last last one, and this is just kind of a fun one, and I don't even think I looked at this, I don't remember what they said, so um they had a little one of those little teaser stories on the morning show I listened to, and it said, let me see if I, hopefully I saved it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:25:19.81
Bill
What is, do you think they were doing a story on, God, if this will even open up now. Oh, that's fine. No, the fucking, oh, there it is.
01:25:28.82
Mike
Hehehe.
01:25:29.02
Bill
I'm like, now the link on my phone's not working. What the fuck?
01:25:31.10
Mike
Hmm.
01:25:31.17
Bill
This always works.
01:25:32.76
Mike
Right.
01:25:33.64
Bill
um They were talking about, right.
01:25:34.08
Mike
Or it never works.
01:25:37.41
Bill
They were talking about the list of top 10 states with the worst or most road rage, which I thought would be, you know, you're on the road a lot.
01:25:44.07
Mike
Ah.
01:25:46.63
Bill
I'm doing a little bit more driving than I used to.
01:25:46.92
Mike
I am. Mm hmm.
01:25:49.14
Bill
so It kind of, now that I look at it, I remember looked at it, it kind of surprised me. Well, it doesn't matter if it surprised me. What do you think the number one state um with the, in the way it's listed as with the 10 states have the worst road rage?
01:26:05.72
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh, number one, road rage. I'm trying to think out there. Um, well, I mean, all those lists, let's just go for the obvious one.
01:26:16.66
Mike
Mississippi.
01:26:18.45
Bill
You know what, it's it's down in the area sort of, louisian Louisiana, which I kind of ah kind of blew my mind a little bit, but apparently, you know, again, according to some nationwide survey, blah, blah, blah, New Mexico was number two.
01:26:22.15
Mike
Louisiana. Hmm.
01:26:31.96
Mike
Huh.
01:26:33.25
Bill
Montana, number three.
01:26:36.02
Mike
Okay.
01:26:36.40
Bill
Um, Colorado and Arkansas. Uh, let me see who, oh, look at that North Carolina was number seven. I was just there.
01:26:43.55
Mike
oh
01:26:43.81
Bill
They didn't, they didn't seem that bad there.
01:26:45.40
Mike
Right.
01:26:46.33
Bill
Wisconsin is number nine.
01:26:48.16
Mike
Yeah.
01:26:49.41
Bill
Um, and Georgia's number 10, Ohio didn't even make the list.
01:26:52.83
Mike
Yeah.
01:26:53.81
Bill
And again, it's, it's not for bad drivers.
01:26:53.81
Mike
Yeah.
01:26:55.85
Bill
It's just the, you know, for road rage.
01:26:56.30
Mike
Right. Right. Hmm. I don't know.
01:26:59.97
Bill
So what about, and they say that they give a top five of the states with the least road rage. What do you think, number one least?
01:27:07.56
Mike
Least, uh, Hawaii.
01:27:11.10
Bill
You know what, i that that's ah that's not a bad guess, but it's New Hampshire.
01:27:14.92
Mike
Ah, New Hampshire.
01:27:16.35
Bill
yeah And then Rhode Island is second, California is third, which that surprises me.
01:27:19.47
Mike
Hmm.
01:27:22.00
Bill
But um I don't know, it just kind of blew my mind. I'm like, Louisiana. I mean, if you ah you've driven there, I know that. I have driven in Louisiana in years.
01:27:26.99
Mike
Yeah.
01:27:28.63
Bill
I don't remember i don't remember it enough to road rage-iest.
01:27:29.37
Mike
Right. Being specifically rage filled. yeah
01:27:36.31
Bill
wrote
01:27:37.15
Mike
Yeah. I, you know, I mean, yeah, it's been, it's probably been shit 10 years or so since I've driven down there. Um, now, now, now nothing really jumps out at me.
01:27:43.97
Bill
Right.
01:27:48.05
Mike
Yeah. I don't know.
01:27:49.76
Bill
Yeah, I guess the the fact that Wisconsin made the list, it should have made the list of, you know, well, the thing of it is in Wisconsin and Ohio is, is bad ish with the left lane, left lane drivers. But, well, you, you drove, you and I drove up to twice.
01:28:00.08
Mike
Right.
01:28:03.25
Bill
We drove up to, no, we were up to Green Bay, the one, just the one time, right? Yeah.
01:28:06.68
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:28:07.46
Bill
Um, so, I mean, I know you've driven up there plenty of times, but, uh, you know, that, that area from, you know, Germantown, where he used to live up to Appleton and up to Green Bay, that highway 41 areas, it's fucking terrible.
01:28:10.25
Mike
Right.
01:28:15.68
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.
01:28:18.58
Bill
Just so fucking terrible all the time.
01:28:21.12
Mike
Oh.
01:28:21.16
Bill
And after being in Ohio for three years, when after getting sober out there and coming back to Wisconsin, like that first time two years in, um, I was just like, I forgot how fucking horrible these people are.
01:28:27.20
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:28:34.85
Bill
I mean, because I used to get mad in Ohio driving back and forth to work from, you know, Fair Lawn back to Cleveland every day.
01:28:37.74
Mike
Right.
01:28:40.36
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:28:40.97
Bill
But then I hit Wisconsin. I'm like, Oh, you people are fucking assholes.
01:28:43.82
Mike
Yep.
01:28:44.84
Bill
You guys are, you're just fucking idiots. Three lanes, three lanes ah of, you know, traffic and they're all filled and there's one fuck knob and all the left to the hand lane and they're, they're mindless.
01:28:47.46
Mike
Yep.
01:28:54.32
Mike
Yep.
01:28:55.65
Bill
You can get past and go past them and they're still, you're driving down the road and they're still there. You got seven, 7,000 cars behind them passing them to stay in that fucking lane.
01:29:00.06
Mike
Mm hmm. Well, yep.
01:29:05.74
Bill
fuckers, but again, you do you deal with that every day, right?
01:29:09.02
Mike
I do. Yes, I do.
01:29:11.90
Bill
All right, man, i just figured i'd I just figured I'd end that one off on a kind of a fun note, but anything else, Mike, anything else you wanna talk about tonight?
01:29:20.25
Mike
Yeah, not really.
01:29:22.12
Bill
I know, I was just fuck it around. it's been ah It's been our time, so I think we're i think we're good to go.
01:29:28.38
Mike
I think so. All right, well thank you everyone for listening to another episode of Silver Not Mature. As always, be good to each other, be kind to each other, go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.
01:29:43.48
Mike
And now from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul from the beginning of time to the ends of the earth Always in eternally fuck you and now it's time It's time for you to fuck right off then keep fucking off Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here climb over that gate dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever and
01:30:11.84
Bill
hi I like the little addition. You keep fucking right off.
01:30:14.51
Mike
Yeah, that's right.
01:30:16.35
Bill
Fucking right off. Oh, and real quickly here, and I almost forgot to mention it.
01:30:19.83
Mike
Hmm.
01:30:19.99
Bill
So next week um we have Breeze on.
01:30:22.90
Mike
Ah, that's right.
01:30:23.57
Bill
And take a minute, once we say our goodbyes on here, the thing that it goes into, that little musical number, the Diddy, well, I shouldn't say Diddy anymore, he's a fucking pig.
01:30:29.69
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:30:32.73
Bill
I'm sorry, the musical tune that it goes into after this, Breeze is the one, she's the one that put that together for us.
01:30:32.74
Mike
Yeah.
01:30:35.63
Mike
Right.
01:30:39.44
Bill
I know we've talked about it before, but yeah, listen to it.
01:30:39.68
Mike
She did.
01:30:42.73
Bill
It's something you can dance to.
01:30:44.84
Mike
That's right.
01:30:45.10
Bill
It's kind of a snappy beat.
01:30:47.34
Mike
The fuck off remix.
01:30:48.97
Bill
Yeah, which is still, I love it. I fucking love it. But yeah, so we'll have her on next week and ah kind of catch up with her and see what's up and, you know, see what she's up to.
01:30:54.09
Mike
Cool.
01:30:57.09
Bill
A lot of, a lot of good things out there.
01:30:57.49
Mike
Absolutely.
01:30:58.78
Bill
So, but yeah, other than that, uh, fuck it.
01:31:01.19
Mike
Yeah.
01:31:01.21
Bill
but I think we're done. So right.
01:31:02.44
Mike
And then your ass will be here next week.
01:31:04.49
Bill
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, oh, I'm going to use your slow cooker again. Just let you know.
01:31:08.36
Mike
All right, cool. Oh, yeah. um Well, remind me, i'm hell, I might as well do it on here. um Yeah, so ah you're coming in Saturday, correct?
01:31:17.38
Bill
Correct.
01:31:18.15
Mike
All right, I'm leading the hot dog meeting for Joe that night.
01:31:22.06
Bill
Oh, um, Stella mayor's one.
01:31:23.85
Mike
It's a 6.30 meeting, so yep.
01:31:26.95
Bill
Okay, cool.
01:31:28.03
Mike
yep Yep.
01:31:29.20
Bill
All right. So are you going to down there play with play with hot dogs?
01:31:29.86
Mike
So make sure, yes, exactly. Mine and others.
01:31:36.12
Bill
All right. So, um, six 30. So I need to be there in time to, so I can go to the meeting.
01:31:39.37
Mike
Yeah, yeah.
01:31:40.66
Bill
Right. Yeah. Go hang out with some drunks and eat a hot dog.
01:31:43.27
Mike
ah Exactly.
01:31:44.77
Bill
We're not going to play. Okay. What, you know what? Fuck it. I don't care. You, you people out there, you filthy, my fucking people take it whatever way you want.
01:31:51.41
Mike
Right.
01:31:51.45
Bill
It's called a hot dog meeting. So there, fuck you.
01:31:53.72
Mike
That's right. and It is a men's meeting.
01:31:55.80
Bill
Exactly. All right, man.
01:31:57.64
Mike
I love you too.
01:31:57.78
Bill
I love you brother. We'll talk soon.
01:32:01.10
Mike
All right, bye.
01:32:02.80
Bill
Bye.
