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Oct. 5, 2024
SoberNotMature - Episode 137 (Managing It Ourselves)
This week we have...
It's Mike and Bill, coming to you from the Land of Cleve! Yep, we are both under the same roof again this week.
Mike started out with his reading and it was about hope and courage. In our active days, we had no hope or courage but today, we get to experience it in a whole new way. It was a good conversation.
Then we chatted about the 10th Step, Moon Zappa, an extreme DUI, having a void in sobriety, wanting to do it all on our own, spiritual experiences and improving our recovery.
Yes there was more. There is always more, but you will just have to listen.
Enjoy the episode.
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Store www.sobernotmatureshop.com
Transcript
00:00:01.77
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature and i'm in cleveland still you know what if i didn't have my headphones on i probably could work we are probably overloaded this cheap little fucking software software thing that we have
00:00:11.61
Mike
Hey, can you hear me? You know what? And I, by doing that, I caught a very small echo in my headphones.
00:00:27.53
Mike
Well, yeah, I just, you know, whatever, man, your big microphone picked up my voice from the other room.
00:00:33.03
Bill
Oh, you think so?
00:00:33.96
Mike
Yeah, I know so.
00:00:34.09
Bill
Huh. Oh, okay. All right, but um yeah, so yeah, I been got got to Cleveland last weekend and we'll talk about that briefly because obviously both of us, which is rare, both of us actually got to lead a meeting last weekend, which was um nice.
00:00:48.88
Mike
We did.
00:00:49.66
Bill
I mean, for for both of us, you you certainly lead more more than I do, but we had talked about that.
00:00:52.41
Mike
Hmm.
00:00:54.02
Bill
but And then other than that, just hanging out, doing the work thing and whatever it was this week.
00:00:59.24
Mike
Right.
00:00:59.52
Bill
so yeah hit ah time flies and then I'm leaving at some oh here's the thing so if we're looking at the clock I think you have roughly 10 hours and 23 minutes left of dealing with my dealing with me
00:01:04.00
Mike
Hmm. Not that we're counting.
00:01:16.71
Bill
Yeah, you know so I'm leaving it, I'm gonna try to leave it like six in the morning tomorrow, and it it is 7.37 PM right now in the land of Cleve, as Mike says, but yeah, so really, after all said and done, and I put this thing together, you might see me for another, maybe, I don't know, 15 minutes, and then you you're you're done with me.
00:01:35.75
Mike
Provinces, provinces.
00:01:36.92
Bill
i know Yeah, but I don't know. Either way, it's it's been a nice week. It's again, having having the flexibility to to come out here and um again, it was, and we'll but we'll talk about it.
00:01:48.24
Bill
It was a pleasure to lead the meeting and all that stuff. So, but yeah, we'll talk about it. But um so other other than that, yeah.
00:01:52.85
Mike
right.
00:01:57.01
Bill
We started off and we were yeah trying to have like small talk again briefly and like we'd like we haven't seen each other every fucking day for the last six days so but um Exactly exactly except for you clearing your throat and hacking on yourself um who All right, so I'm guessing I think you have a reading right
00:02:04.05
Mike
Right. Yeah. There was no small talk to be had.
00:02:11.10
Mike
fast um
00:02:18.81
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a reading.
00:02:23.56
Bill
All right, well, let's so let's get that bad boy out of the way. What do you say, Mike?
00:02:27.11
Mike
Now, right, Bill, well let's do it. Um, you know what? Today's is pretty damn good. So I think I'll share it with everybody. October 4th, you're hearing this on the fifth, but it is the fourth and I'm running a program of honesty today. Um, I don't know, man. Anyway, it has been a long week. Here we go. Uh, courage is like love. It must have hope to nourish it. Some guy named Napoleon said that.
00:02:55.14
Mike
Hope was something we couldn't afford to have during our active addiction. Hope makes us vulnerable. Hope has us invest in life, others and our values. Hope has us look towards the future with joy and excitement. When we were active addicts, the future meant more of the same, pain, anger and more problems. We used all of our courage just to face the day instead of facing challenges.
00:03:23.98
Mike
Love of life and others shifted to love of drugs and alcohol. All hope was lost. In recovery, we are given back hope if we are willing to embrace it. If we're willing to embrace it, hope holds the energy of excitement and joy. It is a belief that the world and the future hold adventures and gifts for us. It is a belief that we have gifts to give to the world. However, hope what makes us vulnerable again. So we need courage to let down our defenses and let hope in.
00:04:00.60
Mike
Prayer for the day, higher power, please help me embrace hope so I can nourish and grow my courage. Today's action, those pesky actions. Today, I will think of my recovery friends who have the most hope and joy. I will ask them to teach me how to how hope has nourished their courage and their love.
00:04:23.45
Bill
all about nourishing courage and love.
00:04:25.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:04:27.26
Bill
But you're right, that was ah that was a good reading. And I don't remember, but I think I might've posted a piece of that.
00:04:31.94
Mike
Ah Yeah
00:04:32.28
Bill
um I can't remember which one I posted on it, but I think that might've been it because yeah, I'm pretty much sure it was, but because it was a good one. And so that that last, ah of course, the action part of it, you know, so friends, I don't know if it's so much now, and maybe ah I'm not gonna speak for you, but do you look at people now around you that have, let's say, more courage and hope, or or was that more of a like an early thing? And what who did you look to at that time to to gain that?
00:04:59.65
Mike
No, certainly an early thing. Um, and it still is. Um, i it's now it's more of a gauge of the people I want to be around.
00:05:08.10
Bill
that Right.
00:05:08.16
Mike
Um, Oh, you're a miserable son of a bitch. No, thank you. Uh, move along or I'll move along. Somebody's moving along cause I ain't hanging out with that shit anymore.
00:05:18.83
Mike
Um, but, um, I've who, um,
00:05:19.13
Bill
Right.
00:05:24.07
Mike
You know, uh, our sponsor comes to mind, you know, the guys, most of the guys that, who do you know that, Hey, imagine that the guys that are still around, um, you know, guys that we saw this weekend.
00:05:31.40
Bill
Yeah.
00:05:33.70
Bill
Right.
00:05:36.24
Mike
Um, Yeah, you know, that's, and I still, I still look.
00:05:39.20
Bill
Hmm.
00:05:41.48
Mike
um I don't, I don't need to, yeah I'm not looking for the lessons so much anymore. Like I said, it's more about the people I want to hang around with.
00:05:52.94
Mike
um But I still look, you know, because i I want to make sure that I'm still maintaining mine. And, you know, if you want what they have, you do what they do. And I still need to do that.
00:06:03.90
Mike
Absolutely. um So, yeah, you know, I look around and I i see people. Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:09.64
Bill
Right. Yeah, and and I think you're that that's a good way that's a good way to put it because it's a, and when you said that, you know, look around because all those sort of things that made me kind of think of, um I don't know, mirroring people, make sure that I'm mirroring other people and
00:06:24.02
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:06:26.41
Bill
you know that there is again a lineup of you know what what are what is our sobriety supposed to look like and you know you walk into and that's a good thing you know you see people that you don't see in a while um like our sponsor jill we got to see on uh on saturday and then just you know see some other people here and there and um like matt you know from from uh who do you know he's always what he's one of the most laid-back people that
00:06:32.71
Mike
Right.
00:06:47.50
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.
00:06:51.08
Bill
um I to this day, I mean, 14 years ago, he was and he hasn't changed and it's it's ridiculously comfortable, you know, and he's just that he's just that kind of guy.
00:06:53.90
Mike
Right. Right.
00:07:01.21
Bill
He's a no nonsense and that sort of thing and it's not and it's not that but it's a way he carries himself.
00:07:03.04
Mike
Oh, absolutely.
00:07:07.53
Bill
It's just comforting, you know,
00:07:08.90
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because I mean, he's super comfortable in his own skin and and just, yeah, you know, doing the thing. So he's reaping the results of it and it's, it's, it's a pleasure to be around the guy.
00:07:20.02
Bill
Right. And that's ah ah that's a good point, though, I mean, with with that part of it. But also, I mean, definitely early on. And when but I asked the question, like, who who did you look at in the early stages?
00:07:30.17
Bill
And I mean, yeah, all those people at at Who Do You Know? And obviously, our sponsors. and ah But I think the you know the other thing, too, is these guys that came in and you know pledged their time to do group. And even people that, at that time, that had 30 days and six months.
00:07:45.34
Bill
And you know you see some of those guys, and they're like,
00:07:45.77
Mike
Right.
00:07:48.69
Bill
Man, that's they've been sober forever, man.
00:07:50.75
Mike
he Right.
00:07:51.97
Bill
Which, again, I'm not pooh-poohing the time of three months and six months and nine months, but you know at when when you're in there and you're you know two weeks and 30 days sober, and these guys are out you know starting to live their lives again, and and you know that they were sitting in the same fucking chair that you were you know just six months, and at that time, six long months ago, it's ah it's encouraging, and it does.
00:07:59.63
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:08:04.38
Mike
Right.
00:08:12.10
Mike
h
00:08:14.44
Bill
It gives you ah it gives you some hope.
00:08:14.47
Mike
Yeah.
00:08:16.19
Bill
so um now as far
00:08:17.88
Mike
Yeah. And like, you know, and like you brought up, man, you know, are we, are we acting that way? Are we showing that? I mean, I, I certainly don't all the fucking time.
00:08:25.52
Bill
right
00:08:25.82
Mike
You know, uh, when I got home at did whatever eight 30 at night, fucking Tuesday or whatever it was, I was just miserable. Goddamn mood. But you know, I know better than I i know to lock myself away and not subject people to my horrible mood.
00:08:34.62
Bill
yeah
00:08:40.45
Mike
Um, and it's, it it's again, it's nowhere near what my horrible moods used to be. Um, it's just, you know, I'm fucking tired and hungry and you know, um, little angry, but thankfully not lonely.
00:08:51.56
Mike
So
00:08:51.97
Bill
Right. Right.
00:08:54.71
Mike
but hungry and tired. It's, you know, I'm halfway there or so. Right.
00:08:58.23
Bill
Right.
00:08:58.70
Mike
And I'm aware of it. And so I'm just, you know, fuck man, let's go get some food and lay the fuck down.
00:09:04.82
Bill
Well, and we have talked about that a number of times that, you know, like being around, ah well, you know, all the time that I spent in Indiana over the last couple of years and, um you know, around, because obviously living in our sister's house and, you know, we have our we have our own space and she hangs around the kitchen and watches TV down there and, you know, I'll go upstairs and whatever, but there are certain times and theres there's been the, you know, exchanges where,
00:09:17.76
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.
00:09:28.80
Bill
you know i I snapped or something like that, not bad.
00:09:31.30
Mike
Mm. Right.
00:09:32.03
Bill
you know Or she's been in a weird mood and you know both of us have been, you know hey, you know i I didn't mean to come across that way type of thing because the the problem, and I say problem only in the fact that the problem of being alone a lot or living by yourself or being having your own time, it does, it's an adjustment sometimes when you know knowing that if nobody else is around, I don't have to, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna,
00:09:33.88
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
00:09:46.08
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Mm hmm.
00:09:58.60
Bill
slam around the, wherever I'm at, I'm not gonna slam around to beat shit up or whatever, whether people are there or not, but I don't have to worry about or be concerned about or even think about, um how am I coming across?
00:10:02.38
Mike
Right.
00:10:07.98
Mike
h
00:10:09.63
Bill
I just wanna be quiet right now, I just wanna sit down, eat a fucking drumstick, watch some stupid TV and you know then I'll go to bed.
00:10:10.07
Mike
Right.
00:10:16.80
Bill
you know Or I wanna do nothing and I don't wanna be bothered and it has nothing to do with people around.
00:10:17.23
Mike
Right.
00:10:19.63
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:22.41
Bill
you know So, but yeah, I mean, making sure that, uh, you know, again, like Matt, you know, he's, he's comfortable in his own skin. I feel like I am too, but then, you know, I, there's plenty of times when I feel fucking anxious.
00:10:34.51
Bill
I mean, I'm not bouncing off the walls anxious, but again, it's a, it's a good, these are all good barometers.
00:10:35.16
Mike
Sure.
00:10:40.31
Bill
He's these guys that have been around us, you know, for years. But then the other thing too is the, you know, the, one of the things I wrote down was courage to let down your defenses.
00:10:51.00
Bill
That one I think is kind of huge because I think we've talked about that before having like walls built up and stuff like that.
00:10:51.28
Mike
who Right.
00:10:58.43
Bill
I mean, I know you, I did, I think you did too, right?
00:10:58.72
Mike
Oh, yeah.
00:11:01.15
Mike
Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, what I still do. yeah
00:11:04.99
Bill
Well, I mean, we all do, we all do.
00:11:06.47
Mike
Right. We all do. Right. It's normal. I'm not going to, you know, beat myself up. I'm not completely open. Fuck no. I'm never going to be. That's fine. I accept that part. Um, you know, but yes, I do have to have to, you know, with Chris, I mean, I have to sometimes like consciously realize that, you know, I'm sharing yeah part of my life with her and her with me and, and, you know, yeah, you know, I've got to, I got to think about it sometimes because yes, my natural,
00:11:34.70
Mike
my natural state is to uh you know put those walls up and you know leave me the **** alone because that's who I am who I was for a long long long time um yeah you know right letting those defenses down letting people in you know and and like the reading said it makes you vulnerable you know you you can get hurt and and clearly have been and god knows we don't like to get hurt we we don't like pain we want to **** feel good all the time that's what got us here um
00:11:50.25
Bill
Right. Right.
00:12:02.53
Mike
Yeah, well, but we have to, you know but then if we don't make ourselves vulnerable, then we don't get that ah joy that the reading talked about, you know and and that that true connection with someone else.
00:12:09.79
Bill
Right.
00:12:13.36
Mike
And yeah, it's it's it's fucking tough, but yeah, what isn't?
00:12:18.68
Bill
Yeah, that's and and that's a good point. you know the But the vulnerability, it it does, even when you know when the the let down the defenses and the vulnerability and stuff like that, I was having, by the way, I was having a fucking horrible time trying to spell vulnerable.
00:12:31.99
Mike
yeah
00:12:32.56
Bill
It was like one of the first things I wrote down, I'm like, the vulnerable, I felt like the Sesame Street guy, you know?
00:12:38.95
Mike
Right.
00:12:39.57
Bill
um And then it's like a few different times, I'm like, I'm not writing it down more than once, I got it, it's vulnerable.
00:12:40.84
Mike
Sound it out.
00:12:44.99
Mike
right
00:12:46.16
Bill
But but the the vulnerability, and ah the thing it is, is I, before I got sober, and I'm trying to think of the, in my mind, even that the best way for me to, I don't know, voice this, I think that I, and like we're when we were talking about with Dr. Sarab, you know, I didn't really have a, I had no handle on my emotions, I had no coping skills and all that sort of stuff, so, like in a an intimate type of relationship, or like, a you know, male, female, that sort of thing, significant other,
00:13:15.51
Bill
um I used to, if i if I really was into somebody, I would fall and I would fall hard. you know And there was no cautiousness. It was like, hey, I gotta fucking dig you.
00:13:27.19
Bill
I'm hitting the gas, man.
00:13:27.58
Mike
Right. Right.
00:13:28.85
Bill
And you know it's it's really easy at that point to get hurt because you you don't know well you don't know what you're dealing with with who but the other person.
00:13:37.00
Mike
Right.
00:13:37.42
Bill
you know
00:13:38.03
Mike
Yeah.
00:13:38.90
Bill
You know, so, and I mean, I suppose over the years, I didn't have like really bad breakups except for, I mean, my divorces went weird, but that that was a slow burn, you know, for a certain amount.
00:13:42.36
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:13:49.76
Bill
um But, you know, the thing of it is now, if if I've had, because I've been honest on here, not specifics, but you know, I've had my heart broken, and heart my heart stepped on in my opinion, whatever the case is, it's nobody's fault, it just happened.
00:14:03.89
Bill
um And I think, I'm trying to think if if it's worse now because I'm more cautious, you know, when I get hurt type of thing, um or if, I mean, I know how to deal with the hurt. So there's that part. But when it happens, I'm just kind of like, are you fucking kidding me?
00:14:19.77
Bill
You know, I did did the research and did the work. I kind of went slow into here.
00:14:24.02
Mike
ah
00:14:24.05
Bill
You know, I've got my, I've talked about my levels of love. I don't have a, I'm not a zero to 60 anymore or zero to a hundred. There, there are speed limit signs in in the middle of that, you know, but I don't know. It's a, it's a weird thing.
00:14:34.95
Bill
I'm just, I'm sitting here trying to figure this out out loud, but the the whole point is that vulnerability. It's still hard. um You know, but. I have such a smaller group of people that I consider close and that I want to be close with.
00:14:49.26
Bill
Maybe that's the way to put it.
00:14:49.56
Mike
Right.
00:14:51.51
Bill
More selective.
00:14:52.52
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We're discerning in our old age.
00:14:55.49
Bill
Yeah, yeah, I got time for any of the fucking bullshit. And then, you know, any anything like that I've had, and it's, ah you know, it's usually when, again, it's a significant other type of thing, you know, um you go into something and somebody, I don't know, somebody starts to get a weird attitude about something only fine, you know, because I can usually tell.
00:15:13.42
Mike
Right.
00:15:16.94
Mike
right
00:15:17.19
Bill
I'll be able to tell if somebody's fucking irritated at me, especially again in that sort of you know significant other thing.
00:15:22.91
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:15:22.97
Bill
And I'll ask the person, the person says, no, I'll say, okay, but I feel like something's wrong.
00:15:26.23
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:15:27.56
Bill
If you don't tell me, that's fine, but let's let's not have this happen.
00:15:27.57
Mike
Right.
00:15:30.60
Bill
I don't say it that way, but you know, I mean, I just expect to be people to be open with that too, but it's just, again, expectations.
00:15:31.90
Mike
Right.
00:15:36.27
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah, right.
00:15:38.57
Bill
expectations
00:15:38.59
Mike
Yes, exactly. Control issues, I believe it's yeah.
00:15:44.47
Bill
Yeah, i just I just don't want, I would rather, I would much rather have, and I think I've said this before, if there's a problem, I just wanna know about it.
00:15:51.59
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:15:52.53
Bill
I don't give a fuck what it is.
00:15:52.82
Mike
Right.
00:15:54.08
Bill
It can be really fucking horrible.
00:15:54.18
Mike
Yeah.
00:15:56.44
Mike
Right.
00:15:56.74
Bill
i can I can figure out, I have to have something in front of me to deal with. I can't deal with the unknown.
00:16:01.88
Mike
Right.
00:16:02.10
Bill
And you know if there's something, you know this I think it may be or whatever, then I get all up into my head and I don't wanna do that. you know So I would rather just, if somebody's like, okay, you did this, you did that, I don't like it when you do this, perfect.
00:16:16.06
Bill
I won't do that anymore and let's fix it.
00:16:16.36
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If I can, and if I can't, then I'll let you know.
00:16:20.87
Bill
yeah
00:16:21.58
Mike
Well, that's just kind of the way things are, and right?
00:16:26.58
Mike
Yeah, there's that too. You know, right. I mean, it yeah, it depends. Clearly we have to be open and try to change and and whatever if we can. But I mean, you know, some stuff, I mean, people have, ah you know, there's things I can't accept.
00:16:40.90
Mike
um and And, you know, if they can't change, that's fine too.
00:16:46.05
Bill
Right.
00:16:46.04
Mike
You know, then it just, it's not going to work. But yeah, it goes both ways, which is fine. That's the way things are. Acceptance, man. You know, even if we don't like the outcome, it's still except, well, that's just the way it's going to fucking have to be, isn't it?
00:16:55.71
Bill
but Well, like you said, I mean, sometimes it just, it it is what it is, you know, type of thing, but it's the it's the communication or better yet, the lack of communication that that's probably the only thing that really will irritate me these days.
00:17:14.55
Bill
One of my number one things, lack of communication. And then then when if there's a problem simply because somebody didn't communicate something, you know, just tell me. I mean, I'm a big boy, I can handle it.
00:17:23.34
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:17:26.25
Bill
yeah you don't You don't like me, quote unquote, you don't want to deal with me anymore.
00:17:26.34
Mike
Right.
00:17:29.57
Bill
That's fine, I get it. I am sure as fuck not for everyone.
00:17:31.74
Mike
for Right. Yeah, I completely understand. There's times I don't want to fucking deal with me either.
00:17:38.33
Bill
yeah ah Oh, you don't you don't like my attitude? Yeah, I don't either, but um I'm working on it.
00:17:44.06
Mike
Right.
00:17:45.34
Bill
But um the one of the things that talked about when obviously during our active addiction was all hope was lost.
00:17:48.06
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:17:52.17
Bill
And I think that, um I mean, I know, I'm sure we've touched on that before, but um what do you consider to be like, or at what point do you think that all hope was kind of lost as far as you just didn't give a fuck about anything?
00:18:06.13
Mike
Right. um I mean, you know, it was that way for a long time, you know.
00:18:11.19
Bill
Right.
00:18:11.30
Mike
um Yeah. I mean, there was no hope. It was. I mean, like I talked about it just, um you know, it was more of the fucking same. Nothing was going to change, you know, no matter how bad I wanted it to change, whatever, you know, nothing changes if nothing changes.
00:18:24.70
Mike
Well, nothing was fucking changing. So nothing was going to change. It was just more pain and anger and misery and loneliness and the dark and nasty. And yeah. um And it's an awful way to live.
00:18:36.95
Mike
And yeah, you know, deep down that there's no point in hoping for something to get better because you're not fucking changing anything. I'm still picking up that drink.
00:18:45.58
Bill
Right.
00:18:46.90
Mike
I'm still picking up that drug because I have no choice. I have to. And it's it's miserable. So yeah, how can you have any hope when that's your fucking life? You know, I've got to pick up this substance because I have no fucking choice.
00:18:58.67
Mike
I have to do it. You know, even you know, and it it's not it's clearly not working for me anymore And um, you know, whatever I get that I get that five minutes or whatever word. I feel okay You know, I just don't feel I don't hurt. It's not even you feeling okay anymore. You're just not pain. You're not sick You're not whatever. Um, yeah, fuck man. Yuck
00:19:21.61
Bill
Right.
00:19:24.04
Bill
And you know, I think the one one of the biggest, in ah and I've talked about this openly is the, you know, I mean, there's a general thing with, you know, addiction, people talk about denial and all that stuff.
00:19:34.34
Bill
And I mean, I think that I not only was it denial with me, I think it was just, you know, it was ah complete delusion, you know, I, um I mean, it it really, like,
00:19:46.38
Mike
Oh, damn. I was breathing some smoking. No, that's funny, man. When Al led for me a couple of weeks ago, it's exactly what he said he in his lead. He was talking about, I wasn't in denial.
00:19:57.76
Mike
I was completely fucking delusional. you know to To be in denial, you have to recognize the truth somewhere to deny it.
00:20:05.90
Bill
Right.
00:20:06.92
Mike
No, we're fucking delusional, man. We had Our thinking was so warped and so twisted that we actually thought what was unreal was real. And yeah, right.
00:20:16.41
Bill
Right.
00:20:17.78
Mike
It's not denial. It's fucking delusion. That's perfect.
00:20:21.18
Bill
Yeah, and that's and that's a thing and I've, you know, I i know I've talked about it in meetings and leads and I think I've talked about it on here that um i I don't think that I was in any sort of denial about my problem.
00:20:34.41
Bill
I just didn't have a fucking clue, you know?
00:20:34.84
Mike
Right. right
00:20:37.05
Bill
Cause when, you know, the the whole thing and I told the story and I said it, my lead was, you know, waking up and having to take, you know, try to drink a beer and then take a three, four or five shots of, you know, whiskey to be able to even yourself out to put your contacts in and then,
00:20:50.75
Bill
I mean, I never looked at that as being necessarily like, God damn, what the fuck's wrong with you, dude?
00:20:55.72
Mike
Right. Oh, it's normal.
00:20:56.54
Bill
you know i it's inanity That's insanity.
00:20:59.64
Mike
Of course it is.
00:21:00.83
Bill
you know And that's that's delusional to be able to to do something like that and you know basically taking your brain outside of your head and you're like, sit over here, I'm gonna put a towel over you so you don't see this.
00:21:04.10
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:21:11.01
Mike
who
00:21:11.56
Bill
And then I'm gonna get my contacts in it any way I can, then I'm gonna put you back in my head and we're gonna act like nothing happened. you know
00:21:17.30
Mike
Right.
00:21:18.07
Bill
but not even knowing that I'm like acting like nothing happened. It it is, it's it's delusional. It's completely fucking delusional.
00:21:23.20
Mike
Yep.
00:21:24.62
Bill
So in thinking about that is that I don't know, even though I was hopeless and you know all those sort of things, I don't think I knew I was. you know And that's the that's a fucking scary part is that, and that's why i I don't know that all the circumstances being what they were that you know led me to this path, whatever it was, i all these things had to happen.
00:21:33.96
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah. Mm hmm.
00:21:45.10
Bill
but From a whatever a conscious level, you know, if there was anything conscious in me at that time, I don't, I don't see looking back now as a relatively now healed or healing individual.
00:22:00.97
Bill
Um, I, when I look back at that person, I don't see that person making that logical step or making that step to try to get better, you know, without some outside influence, like your dad dying and everything falling apart and somebody showing up at the right time and all that stuff, you know, it just, it's, it's terrible, you know,
00:22:07.85
Mike
Hmm. Right now. Right. Right. Mm hmm.
00:22:19.71
Mike
Mm hmm. It is. Yeah. I mean, when you're in the inside of it, you you can't fucking see this is, yeah. The pain, you know, again, the the sitting in your own shit metaphor, right?
00:22:31.76
Mike
You know, I mean, no, no right-minded person would sit in their own shit, but we somehow become comfortable sitting in our own shit. And it's just, oh God, no, thank you.
00:22:43.00
Bill
Right, yeah, and and again, you know I mean, life life is life, man.
00:22:43.65
Mike
Yeah. Nope.
00:22:47.19
Bill
you know i life is Life gets lifeier. ah You and I were just talking about something that's going on you know that earlier earlier today, and I'm nothing I'm gonna get into on here.
00:22:54.82
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:22:56.64
Bill
It's, again, like you say sometimes, it's none of anybody's fucking business out there, but nothing bad, it's nothing critical, it's manageable, but you know it's it's it's a life thing.
00:22:56.98
Mike
Right.
00:23:00.03
Mike
Right.
00:23:02.62
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:06.00
Bill
you know And um you know it's it's these things, when when they happen, whatever it is,
00:23:06.28
Mike
Yeah.
00:23:11.12
Bill
um you know that now that we're sober with a first thought, believe me, my first thought is still, why, what the fuck, why me?
00:23:17.28
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:18.62
Bill
um How can I get out of this? How can I, you know, yeah what literally what, yeah, in that, that is in 14 and a half years later, those initial thoughts don't, well have not changed for me.
00:23:20.56
Mike
Right. Which way can I run?
00:23:27.05
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:31.88
Mike
Right.
00:23:32.00
Bill
Okay. But then I'm like, no, um what is the, what is the path? How can I, how can I fix this?
00:23:38.65
Mike
Yeah.
00:23:39.97
Bill
in in an adult, let me use quotes again, adult ah manner, um using the tools that I've been so freely given.
00:23:42.57
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:23:45.83
Mike
Right.
00:23:48.53
Bill
That's really what it comes down to.
00:23:48.73
Mike
Right.
00:23:49.69
Bill
No, I don't say that to myself in that way, but that that's what it is, man.
00:23:49.93
Mike
Uh huh. No.
00:23:54.57
Bill
I got i got a you know couple of spoonfuls of life thrown at me and I just, they ah it'll work out one way or the fucking other, it's gonna work out.
00:23:55.15
Mike
Yeah.
00:23:59.68
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, if we've learned anything is you walk fucking through it and you get to the other side and it may not be completely pleasant, but you will walk through it and you will get through it and you will get to the other side and you'll go, yeah, yeah, that sucked. Okay. It's over.
00:24:16.06
Bill
Right. Yeah. When you're the the old saying or the old meme, you know, when you're going through hell, keep walking, you know, that's whatever the, and that is, that's true.
00:24:21.64
Mike
Yep.
00:24:23.52
Bill
All you can do is walk through or ask for people, ask for somebody's advice or, you know, what, what I did, I just don't reason.
00:24:27.41
Mike
Yeah. What's the shortest path for me to walk through this hell?
00:24:29.33
Bill
and
00:24:31.98
Bill
Yeah, you know, and there's there's no reason in the world that I, no offense to you that I had to share that with you today, but, um and I hadn't necessarily planned on, you know, having a conversation with you might've come up, you know, but we're standing outside shooting the shit for a minute.
00:24:37.83
Mike
ah
00:24:44.47
Bill
I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, here's the thing.
00:24:46.50
Mike
Nope.
00:24:46.84
Bill
And you know what, I mean, ah i I do. I like the fact that it's good to get it out of my mouth sometimes and just get this shit. you know If nothing else, you didn't help fix my problem, let alone that I ever expect you to.
00:24:57.48
Mike
nope Right.
00:24:59.34
Bill
you know But just being there and listening and just getting there, going blah, blah, blah for a couple of minutes.
00:25:01.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
00:25:06.02
Bill
Yeah, having other people around or having other people to, you know, nothing else to vent to was kind of a nice thing.
00:25:11.00
Mike
Just listen. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:25:14.28
Bill
So anything more on the courage, the faith, the reading, anything like that?
00:25:19.48
Mike
No, no, just, you know, we again, like the. word that was used over and over is nourish, which is an action, and which is, you know, again, something that we have to, we have to feed it, you know, otherwise it'll fucking die like anything else that you don't feed.
00:25:26.64
Bill
Right.
00:25:36.33
Mike
So if you feed your hope, you have to actively, you know, work on it. We do. Otherwise it will wither and die.
00:25:45.03
Bill
right Yeah, and and literally, you know it's ah the the fact that I brought it up, whatever it was, a handful of episodes ago or a few ago, when I but i first said that you know I think my, you know i and sometimes hour, but I'll speak for myself, you know my my state is is in this is in this lull or in a bad mood type of thing and I've always got to work to keep out of it.
00:25:58.14
Mike
Hmm.
00:26:03.32
Mike
Right.
00:26:05.21
Bill
And I do through the day.
00:26:05.30
Mike
Hmm.
00:26:06.63
Bill
you know i mean i I'm conscious of it now and nothing is happening out of the ordinary when I have that. you know
00:26:13.02
Mike
Right.
00:26:13.35
Bill
And so it is, I have these, it's these mini mood swings.
00:26:16.36
Mike
Yup.
00:26:18.01
Bill
It's so fucking stupid. You know, I'm just, I'm doing things that everything's going fine, whatever, and all of a sudden it's like, ugh. I'm like, what the fuck, man? And I'm like, yeah, you know, it's fine.
00:26:26.51
Mike
Right.
00:26:27.77
Bill
Whatever. I but i don't even know why I'm feeling that way anyhow. So it's not like I can fucking fix it, but you know, it, all of this stuff, like you just said, I mean, nerd, I gotta, I gotta to feed my own, my own mind ah sometimes every couple of minutes.
00:26:40.02
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:40.98
Bill
So I, I don't do a fucking nose dive. And again, this has nothing to do
00:26:44.12
Mike
Yep.
00:26:46.35
Bill
i'm I'm not a depression type of guy. ah Thankfully, I've never had that type of that type of thing.
00:26:49.14
Mike
Yeah.
00:26:50.92
Bill
Anyone dealing with depression, I have no idea what you're going through. I'm not trying to say I do. It just is. For me, it's these little mood swings. That's all that it is.
00:26:57.92
Mike
yeah
00:26:58.48
Bill
And it's fucking weird. That's all that I can say.
00:27:01.27
Mike
Right.
00:27:02.30
Bill
It's just fucking weird.
00:27:03.56
Mike
Yeah. and And again, walk through it, you know, wait a couple of minutes. it It'll fucking change like every other goddamn mood.
00:27:11.36
Bill
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt at all. So, um all right, so nothing else under the reading. We're all good.
00:27:16.41
Mike
Yeah, I think so.
00:27:18.04
Bill
Okay, I liked it, by the way.
00:27:19.67
Mike
Yeah, it was a good one.
00:27:21.03
Bill
All right, so um speaking of the readings, a lot of them, obviously, that this is the 10th month, of course, and most of the recovery books are talking about the 10th step.
00:27:27.25
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:27:30.26
Bill
you know So I got to kind of thinking about this, and um it reminded me of that, whenever that episode was, what's your favorite step was? And you were actually mulligan around, you were like, I can't pick one, it's impossible.
00:27:44.11
Mike
Right.
00:27:45.07
Bill
But one of the things I remember eventually at the time, and I'm gonna say it again, I love the 10-step. And I mean, the fact that it's October and things like that, I just wanted to just briefly talk about it a little bit, because I think for me, um I don't know that it's the the most important one, but on a daily basis, all the other ones kind of seem to, I don't know, they're again, part of my life, you know, just everything kind of flows in.
00:28:08.13
Mike
Right.
00:28:08.53
Bill
But the 10-step, when i when I use it, it's every single night at the same time, right before I go to bed.
00:28:14.18
Mike
Right.
00:28:14.45
Bill
And it's also, if I'm gonna say something and I don't, or if I you know shit on somebody, even if it's a little bit and I get to go back and apologize, it just seems more um out in the open than all the other steps in some cases.
00:28:19.37
Mike
Right.
00:28:27.75
Bill
So, um I mean, I don't know, what do you think about that?
00:28:28.06
Mike
right
00:28:30.45
Bill
I mean, how the importance of it, why is it important to you or or how is the importance, how do you work that importance in the 10th step into your life?
00:28:38.20
Mike
I mean, well, it's again, um, you know, keeping your side of the street clean, man. Um, it's yeah, it's, we have to, we have to clean our fucking messes up every day. Cause Hey, guess what? We make messes every day. Um,
00:28:55.31
Bill
When we were wrong.
00:28:55.87
Mike
you know, Exactly. Not if, when, um, yeah yeah, that's just it, you know, and it's, we're going to fuck up every day and we need to but take that time every day to, to fix it, you know, yeah little small stuff, whatever.
00:29:00.02
Bill
i do is
00:29:13.09
Mike
And, and yes, it's not, we do it like a um say formal, there's my air quotes, um, you know, ah inventory or whatever at the end of the day.
00:29:19.35
Bill
yeah
00:29:22.67
Mike
And, you know, but I mean, Like you said, it's it's something that we're using all day long, you know because I have to. i can't i I can't wait fucking more than five minutes or you know shit starts piling up very quickly. um So I've got to make sure that I clean it up fast.
00:29:41.00
Mike
Um, yeah, and that's just it, you know, promptly, promptly fucking admit it and, and, and try to fix it, you know, cleaned it up so that mess isn't left there. It's, it's the dishes in the sink thing. You know, I mean, I can't, you know, I, and I, you know, occasionally I will leave a dish in the sink for an hour or so, cause I'm doing something or whatever, but you know, I, I'm certainly not going to bed with that dish in the sink.
00:30:08.75
Mike
Same thing, you know, it's, it's a, it's a manifestation of the 10th step in my kitchen every fucking day.
00:30:08.78
Bill
right
00:30:16.04
Bill
right right right yeah and i mean it is the littlest things and uh today i would
00:30:17.33
Mike
Yeah. That's just it. All my affairs, including my stupid, dirty dishes.
00:30:26.26
Mike
sock on the floor, you know, whatever, whatever the fuck it is. Right. I can't fucking leave it. I have to clean it up, fix it and move on. That's just it. But it makes life so much fucking easier.
00:30:37.70
Mike
You know, then I don't have shit piled up everywhere, emotionally, spiritually or physically.
00:30:38.47
Bill
Right?
00:30:42.93
Bill
Right. And it it it is, I mean, I, and I like, uh, I like a clean space, you know, um, you know, in, in general, I like a clean space.
00:30:47.93
Mike
Right.
00:30:50.39
Bill
And we were just talking before we started here, my, my, I'm staying in the, uh, in the room where Mike has like his, uh, a closet with spare stuff in it, clothing and stuff like that.
00:30:58.40
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:30:58.92
Bill
And then his ethernet cable is under the bed and I come walking upstairs and he's, he was walking out of the bedroom that I've been with his arms up.
00:31:02.06
Mike
if
00:31:06.20
Bill
He's like, I don't know about my ethernet cable.
00:31:07.74
Mike
Right. Well, because you've got a couple of cables laying around in there.
00:31:08.21
Bill
I'm like.
00:31:10.91
Bill
Right. Well, yeah, with all my work stuff, I got ethernet, I got two power strips, because my work setup is not extreme, but this, and it's not necessarily a small bedroom, but you put a bed in here, some shelves, this and that, and then my computer desk and whatever, I've got a relatively limited space.
00:31:13.16
Mike
Right.
00:31:18.24
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:31:22.89
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:31:26.78
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:31:26.91
Bill
And I'm like, I didn't touch your ethernet cable.
00:31:30.02
Mike
he Right Yeah Yeah Yeah
00:31:30.51
Bill
He's looking under the bed. He's like, well, you moved it a little bit. and then you know so he gets it and it was just it was just kind of funny but you know that the thing of it is and I need to think about that until we just start talking about this that Ethernet cable is within the same distance every single time you reach for it and I know what it was. There's an extension cord coming under the bed. I'm sure when I pulled on that, I pulled the ethernet cable, you know, so it, but again, this is, this is your space and you know, where shit is, you know, and, and I do, um, so any place that I've been, I mean, like Kathy's house is the dishwasher. Um, but in the, like in the afternoon, when I, when I go down and I make my lunch, well, a lot of times she'll run the dishwasher in the morning. By the time I go down, I'll usually eat an apple or whatever in the morning and have like a bowl. So I don't, you know, drip apple fucking juice all over the place.
00:32:17.08
Bill
and And the dishwasher hasn't been running that long. I'll put it in the dishwasher. If it has, then i'll it'll sit in the sink. I'm gonna end up putting the dishwasher that night. I'll have a plate and a knife you know from when I eat lunch.
00:32:28.20
Bill
That'll sit in the sink until again, you know i I empty the dishwasher every night and then reload it in. So those are the things I do. They're not filthy dishes. I rinse them off, but they are in the sink.
00:32:38.21
Mike
Sure.
00:32:39.48
Bill
you know But in ah in a place where like if I'm here, I would never do that, because I know you don't like that.
00:32:44.20
Mike
Right.
00:32:45.24
Bill
yeah
00:32:45.23
Mike
yeah Right.
00:32:45.93
Bill
you know and And it is, it's a matter of um it's a matter of being respectful. And on top of that too, it takes a matter of minutes. Whether I whether i do it now or do it later, it doesn't really matter. you know But it it matters because that's it's a process that I know that you like.
00:33:00.72
Mike
Right.
00:33:00.86
Bill
you know but when it comes down to all these little things like you said you know the sock on the floor I walked into the bathroom downstairs today and there was like this little leaf and it just it caught my eye as I was walking out of the bathroom and I mean I'm talking about a leaf not even the size of the tip of your pinky type of thing but it was brown and it was you know your tiles light so I picked it up put in the garbage you know
00:33:09.27
Mike
Uh-huh. think
00:33:20.02
Mike
Right.
00:33:23.13
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right.
00:33:25.61
Bill
And, but again it's not that it fucking mattered, you know, but it did, you know, I mean, in the grand scheme of things it didn't matter but that's all that's all part of you know again doing doing the next right thing our side of the street, you know the floor in the bathroom all that stuff but
00:33:26.78
Mike
fifty Right. Exactly.
00:33:33.67
Mike
No, of course not.
00:33:37.01
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:33:41.73
Bill
you know With the 10-step, and seriously, I can't i can't tell you um how many times that has, not that I've mastered anything, but once I got a hang of really how to put it into my life, um or use it sort of effectively, I think most of the time in my life, how many times that saved me from you know sticking my foot in my mouth, you know um reacting right away, because we still do, we've admitted it.
00:34:00.40
Mike
Sure.
00:34:05.07
Mike
Right.
00:34:07.63
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:34:09.11
Bill
you know we just the words just don't come out of our mouths our thoughts are still all kinds of fucked up right you know but um so that it is it's a 10 step that in this program that saves me from you know so spewing some shit out of my mouth but on top of that even if I say something that I think upsets people I can't walk away or if I do I've got to walk back
00:34:11.98
Mike
Mm hmm. Yup.
00:34:30.56
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:34:31.94
Bill
and I need to make it right, or at least attempt to, you know?
00:34:33.91
Mike
Right. Right. Mm hmm.
00:34:35.86
Bill
And I'd never walk back to somebody in that circumstance and say, you know what? Fuck you for what you just said, go.
00:34:42.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:34:43.75
Bill
Because even what I said, what I think it's bad, usually thankfully is not that bad, or at least the person, they're they're happy that you take that step and say, wow, you know what? And probably sure in their head, they're going, yeah, you were a dick, but thank you for saying you're sorry.
00:34:57.17
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:34:59.49
Bill
yeah
00:34:59.55
Mike
Mm hmm. You're slightly less dickish now.
00:35:03.66
Bill
yeah Yeah. I mean, what you said was dickish, but you know, coming back around, you got some points back.
00:35:06.05
Mike
Uh huh.
00:35:08.50
Bill
So appreciate that.
00:35:09.42
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:35:10.16
Bill
But the same, same thing at night though, you know, sitting down at night for the longest time. And we talked about it on here. I was only looking at um if I did anything wrong or the shit that went wrong.
00:35:19.85
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:35:21.16
Bill
And now I kind of look at the whole picture, you know, um how do I, it's like,
00:35:23.35
Mike
Yep.
00:35:25.60
Bill
I talk about my day and I talk about to myself, you know, work went, it was good and well things were well, you know, like ah a podcast.
00:35:28.41
Mike
Yeah.
00:35:31.07
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:35:32.20
Bill
And I'm like, Oh, we had a good recording. I felt good about or whatever the case is.
00:35:34.47
Mike
Right.
00:35:35.36
Bill
It could be anything, but I try to look at my entire day as a whole.
00:35:35.59
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:35:39.48
Bill
But more specifically, if I got some shit weighing on my head, I get to get it cleared up or I'm not going to fucking sleep.
00:35:46.03
Mike
Right.
00:35:47.81
Bill
So that's the gift part, right?
00:35:49.54
Mike
this
00:35:52.59
Bill
So what else was step 10?
00:35:54.46
Mike
Um, I don't know. Is there something else?
00:35:58.92
Bill
No, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I don't know if you had anything else to add, but.
00:36:00.65
Mike
Yeah. No, I really don't, man. Yeah. You know, I like that you said at the end though, because we have to remember that, especially if you're new and you're looking at that big scary fourth step, um, you know, which a 10 step is just a mini four step, a daily one, um, cause you know, you haven't piled up all that shit.
00:36:16.38
Bill
Right.
00:36:19.93
Mike
So you don't have to do this massive four step anymore. Um, Yeah, you know, it's an inventory. You need to, you need to take stock, which is what an inventory is.
00:36:30.83
Mike
You take stock of the good and the bad and that's important.
00:36:33.83
Bill
Right.
00:36:34.97
Mike
Yeah. So that's, that's all it is. That's important to to remind people that yes, you know, yes, where I fucked up, but also where I did good, you know, where I did something nice, where I made somebody smile or made their day better or help them with a problem or something that needs to be on the ledger as well.
00:36:52.31
Bill
Yeah, and same thing. you know Things that I i didn't understand. i didn't I didn't get that. I don't know when I finally you know picked up that piece of it, but it is. because And I don't know, maybe it's just that but we get so used to you know having having to have beat ourselves up for all those years for all the shit that we did.
00:37:10.97
Mike
Right.
00:37:11.33
Bill
you know Sometimes it is. It's hard to you know give ourselves a nice pat on the back because we don't want to be egotistical so we can't worry about that part.
00:37:17.03
Mike
Right. Ah, that whole balance thing again, damn it.
00:37:18.49
Bill
you know She's gonna say yeah that balance thing that you always talk about fucking balance ah So, all right, um, oh Just a quick thing on the moon zappa book.
00:37:32.28
Bill
I tried to give updates on this We didn't have a chance last week because of breeze but great time with her I mean that I really enjoyed speaking to her.
00:37:33.09
Mike
Hmm.
00:37:39.85
Bill
So I you know, thank you again to breeze for being on um but um yeah it's just I think I've got maybe another I don't know, maybe an hour and a half of the Moon Zappa book. And it's, again, to Gail, her mom, she's a fucking trip. Just when when ah Moon's daughter was born, she said, um I'm done raising, basically told her she's done raising children so she would not be available to babysit her help out.
00:38:08.12
Bill
you I was just like, I'm like, God damn.
00:38:10.39
Mike
right
00:38:11.10
Bill
And she told her that on the phone too, I think, if I remember correctly. But um once once again, I got i gotta kinda go back to it that I don't i don't know why they had children. I just don't. But I don't know.
00:38:23.97
Bill
It's ah it's a fuck it's a fucked up it's a fucked up mess. It's just ah it's it's crazy. but um All right, so there was a... yeah article that i read that i could read it I don't know whatever or they were talking about it on on the radio but have you ever heard of an extreme DUI charge.
00:38:41.58
Mike
of No.
00:38:42.66
Bill
yeah I, you know what, I didn't either and the headline caught me. So the guy's name, it's ah it's a former running back of the Packers guy, Eddie Lacey. He's a big dude and I mean, he was a crusher as a running back, but I mean, he just kind of like a flash in the pan type of thing for whatever it was one season, I believe, if I remember correctly.
00:38:53.57
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:39:01.83
Mike
ahha
00:39:03.13
Bill
But so he was booked on ah four separate DUI charges, including what they said an extreme DUI charge tied to a reported, now get this,
00:39:11.49
Mike
Hmm.
00:39:14.46
Bill
reported blood alcohol level of, guess what it was for extreme.
00:39:17.75
Mike
Uh, what'd they give him a .2 or some shit?
00:39:22.47
Bill
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
00:39:23.56
Mike
Yeah.
00:39:24.86
Bill
Exactly, exactly a point fucking two.
00:39:27.41
Mike
it Amateur.
00:39:29.24
Bill
Now, again, I know, so here's the thing. Let me step aside for a second.
00:39:33.01
Mike
Uh huh.
00:39:33.86
Bill
I am not, I'm not condoning drunk driving.
00:39:36.55
Mike
Right.
00:39:37.31
Bill
i we're making fun I'm making fun more of them calling it it an extreme DUI.
00:39:41.80
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:39:42.60
Bill
um He also had an open container and because it says, yeah, it says, take it into custody on a charge of possessing an open container in a vehicle. um It was Scottsdale, Arizona, where he's picked up. but
00:39:52.78
Mike
No.
00:39:53.69
Bill
Okay, so the the thing that made me, well, first of all, extreme DUI, I'm like, what the fuck's that? That's like an extreme burrito or something, you know?
00:40:00.55
Mike
Right.
00:40:01.12
Bill
I'm like, ooh, this must have been a really cool DUI.
00:40:03.71
Mike
Right.
00:40:04.77
Bill
So um I was, I'll just be honest with you, I was surprised at the point too, it's granted, I mean, it's you know getting pushing three times the legal limit and in most states or any state now, I guess, but um so,
00:40:12.82
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:40:18.49
Bill
I'm not condoning it. let me Let me put this before I say what I'm going to say.
00:40:19.74
Mike
Mm hmm. Of course.
00:40:23.59
Bill
When I got my DUI, I was 0.24.
00:40:24.42
Mike
Uh huh. Nice.
00:40:27.71
Bill
Okay. Hand it open container.
00:40:30.78
Mike
Yeah.
00:40:31.44
Bill
Of course.
00:40:32.30
Mike
Whoa. Yeah.
00:40:32.42
Bill
um
00:40:33.22
Mike
I get there.
00:40:34.59
Bill
Right.
00:40:34.76
Mike
You gotta open the container.
00:40:37.23
Bill
um I was driving with license plates that should have been on a different vehicle that was mine.
00:40:41.06
Mike
Nice.
00:40:42.24
Bill
there was the The previous vehicle was mine.
00:40:43.23
Mike
Okay.
00:40:45.20
Bill
I didn't steal the plates. They were from a car.
00:40:46.29
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:40:47.25
Bill
I just couldn't afford to get the car registered.
00:40:47.34
Mike
All right. Uh-huh.
00:40:49.56
Bill
um And I had hit a post.
00:40:52.62
Mike
Nice.
00:40:53.87
Bill
um Mine wasn't called extreme. I think it was.
00:40:56.61
Mike
No.
00:40:57.86
Bill
It was 94, I guess times change.
00:41:00.91
Mike
Yeah, right. And it was Wisconsin, right?
00:41:03.30
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:03.97
Mike
Yeah.
00:41:04.10
Bill
They're probably like, you yeah, you fucking amateur .24 and you only hit a sign, you kept driving. I would have kept driving, but I blew a tire out too while I was at it.
00:41:11.82
Mike
Right.
00:41:12.46
Bill
So yeah no, it was in a cup holder.
00:41:12.70
Mike
Well, yeah. Right. And you almost spilled your open container.
00:41:17.36
Bill
I had a, it was right in the front. One of the ones, you know, cause it was a real rear rear wheel drive.
00:41:21.16
Mike
Priorities, man. Fuck that pole. Fuck my tire. Fuck all that. Fuck the plates. My drink is secure.
00:41:28.06
Bill
I swear to God, i know I know for a fucking fact it didn't spill because even though the cop took it and dumped it, um you know I mean, when I went to pick up my car the next day and stuff like that, I mean, there wasn't beer all spilled over the car.
00:41:32.16
Mike
Of course you do.
00:41:35.57
Mike
Hmm.
00:41:40.89
Bill
So I know for a fact it was it did not it did not spill.
00:41:41.00
Mike
Right. Right. That's right.
00:41:45.78
Bill
but um yeah it was uh and that was it i think i told that story that uh you know i i know how to change a tire but for some reason i didn't i didn't know how to that night i couldn't couldn't fucking figure it out couldn't figure out how to i couldn't even get the the jack under the car and i mean i
00:41:58.20
Mike
hu Right.
00:42:02.67
Bill
Yeah, obviously. So 0.24, I don't know, whatever it was, I, that was, yeah, extreme.
00:42:05.08
Mike
Right.
00:42:08.45
Bill
And extreme DUI these days. So I don't know.
00:42:10.40
Mike
right
00:42:11.02
Bill
It just, it, I was again, not, yeah, fucking, I laughed at it. I'm sorry. It it is what it is.
00:42:16.05
Mike
Exactly. Well, that's because that's what we do.
00:42:18.85
Bill
All right.
00:42:19.78
Mike
We laugh at our absurdities.
00:42:22.59
Bill
Yeah, but the fact, the fact, the fact that you guessed it, what did they give him?
00:42:22.80
Mike
We have to. Yeah.
00:42:27.56
Bill
Like a 0.2?
00:42:28.63
Mike
Yeah.
00:42:30.69
Bill
Yeah, exactly. He gave me an exact 0.2.
00:42:32.08
Mike
yeah Did he have a syringe stuck in his dick? Well, that it wasn't extreme.
00:42:38.47
Bill
um Let me look at my notes.
00:42:40.29
Mike
yeah
00:42:41.77
Bill
I see nothing about a syringe or a dick, so I'm gonna ah gotta to say no.
00:42:46.34
Mike
Yeah.
00:42:46.38
Bill
And I did, I scanned over the entire article and I didn't see either one of those words in it, so I'm gonna go ahead with no.
00:42:50.47
Mike
All right.
00:42:52.82
Bill
i can't I can't confirm or deny, but I'm gonna think it's a no.
00:42:55.23
Mike
Well, then there's nothing extreme about that.
00:42:59.34
Bill
Right, I agree. But you know what, extreme time, it that doesn't even fit.
00:43:02.99
Mike
hey
00:43:03.77
Bill
You wanna take a break?
00:43:04.65
Mike
You tried.
00:43:07.45
Bill
i did it's it's a fuck it's fucking futile but i i did i tried i tried to be smooth i did i did all right everyone welcome back to this extreme episode
00:43:08.41
Mike
You did it. You gave it the effort. That's what counts. All right. Well, we'll be back and we will try it again right after these words from our sponsor.
00:43:32.42
Mike
Yeah. yeah
00:43:34.12
Bill
yeah took me took me a minute to figure that out but i got it i got it but um no i don't know i i did i tried to be smooth every once in a while i'm like you know maybe i can now i can't it's like that meme that says i you know i tried to flirt to see if i still have it yeah i don't i don't
00:43:44.78
Mike
I doubt now now.
00:43:54.03
Bill
All right, so um there are, oh, a couple of things I wrote down recently. Have you ever had a point in sobriety where you felt a void?
00:44:06.91
Bill
um Not that anything necessarily was wrong, just that something was missing.
00:44:11.19
Mike
ah
00:44:12.32
Bill
And the reason it came across on a podcast again, but have you ever, have you had that like Since You've Been Sober kind of a void area?
00:44:19.20
Mike
Um, yeah, sure. Of course, you know, my life was not complete by a long shot. Um, um, but I, I know what they're talking about and yeah, you know, I've, I've kind of yeah kind of gotten over it. I mean, there was, it was, um,
00:44:38.87
Mike
but I don't know, maybe six, seven years, somewhere in there, you know, about halfway and so far. Where, you know, I thought maybe I wasn't doing enough and and, you know, maybe I needed to work with people more or something, you know. um And I just got kind of got over it.
00:44:57.94
Mike
It's like, OK, you know, I do what I do. I do what I can when I can. If I'm asked to do something, I always do it.
00:45:06.52
Bill
Right.
00:45:06.68
Mike
um And yeah, you know, I mean, I.
00:45:12.14
Mike
I'm not going to spend 10 hours a day working this shit. um I'm just not. um you know I don't have to today, which is nice.
00:45:23.69
Bill
Right.
00:45:23.73
Mike
um yeah you know um So I thought I was missing something and and i yeah I went, you know what? You're really not. You're doing what you're supposed to do. You are involved.
00:45:34.39
Mike
You are a part of and it's enough. like everything else. You know, I don't it's it was the addict of me thinking I needed more and I was I was wrong.
00:45:44.21
Bill
Right.
00:45:45.12
Mike
um Imagine that. I don't need more.
00:45:48.10
Bill
Yeah.
00:45:48.71
Mike
I have enough.
00:45:49.08
Bill
Right.
00:45:50.17
Mike
Thank you.
00:45:51.06
Bill
Right.
00:45:51.15
Mike
You know, again, I can always do more. Yes, there's always work to do and blah blah blah blah blah but it's not all up to me. I'm not the **** ruler of this universe. I do what I'm supposed to do when I'm supposed to do it and it's enough
00:46:06.44
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, and I've talked about the whole, you know, when I started listening to podcasts, and I led to this and that, all that sort of stuff that, that was a, you know, ah a void story. But um I have, I know, for a fact, I've had the same the same thought over the years about, again, doing more of being more involved. And, you know, am I going to enough meetings? Am I doing enough? Like reading the there's there's certain I think it's a 24 hour book that probably has it every once in a while.
00:46:31.73
Bill
It's like, you know, almost like the, am I doing enough type of readings? It doesn't necessarily say it that way, but um the main things that it usually says in the reading though is, you know, when, again, what you said, when you're asked, you know, am I am i always gonna help?
00:46:45.74
Bill
It'll ask about volunteering, I think we talked about that.
00:46:46.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:46:48.61
Bill
I mean, I'm not reaching out to all these different people and saying, what the fuck can I do? How can I help you?
00:46:53.85
Mike
Right.
00:46:54.23
Bill
You know, but if somebody, um there's never been, and again, we talk about always and never, to the best ah As far as I remember, I don't believe um there's been a time when somebody's approached me that I've said, no, I won't help.
00:47:06.59
Mike
Sure.
00:47:08.11
Bill
um i' so I've mentioned to people before that if if I don't think um you know I would be the best person for them as a sponsor, I'll say, I'll tell you what, why don't we do this?
00:47:15.92
Mike
sure
00:47:17.77
Bill
um I'm gonna be your friend and let's let's go chitchat, let's see how things work. If we turn into a sponsor type of relationship, that's cool, but if not, um if I think that I made so i may have a friend that I think would line up with you a little bit better, but one way or the other, let's let's let's go to a couple of meetings, let's do this, let's do that.
00:47:31.49
Mike
Right Yeah
00:47:35.94
Bill
I'll still try to help the person or lead them to the right direction. you know I've never had somebody walk up to me and be like, you know what, fuck it, fuck it, no.
00:47:45.68
Mike
Right, yeah, no, of course not
00:47:47.71
Bill
No, no, I'm not going to.
00:47:48.96
Mike
Nah, I'm not fucking helping you.
00:47:49.63
Bill
I have no, no desire. Yeah, exactly.
00:47:51.28
Mike
Look at you, look at you.
00:47:55.40
Mike
No, right, that's just, do we just don't do that. So right, um yeah, if we were doing that sort of thing, and I'm sure there are people that do, um yeah, you know, no, can't do that, but yeah, I do enough.
00:48:08.40
Mike
You know, again, if I'm asked and if I can do something, I absolutely will, but sometimes I can't. Sometimes I, I'm not going to be the person that can help somebody, you know, um, I understand that that's okay too, you know, but there is going to be somebody that is, you know, you encourage them.
00:48:15.82
Bill
Right.
00:48:26.03
Mike
Like you said, I'll, I'll hang out with you. I will try to shove you in the right direction. Um, yeah, that's, yeah, I do enough. It's okay.
00:48:35.98
Bill
Right.
00:48:36.73
Mike
Yep.
00:48:37.77
Bill
Well, and I've even had, you know, people that over the years that have, you know, that have said, hey, you know, I'm looking for somebody, if I have a question, can I reach out to you at whatever point?
00:48:45.33
Mike
o Right.
00:48:45.73
Bill
um I'll be honest with them, I'm gonna say, okay, here's here's the deal, the type of job I have, um which would include now. um You know, I i cannot, um it's even answering a quick text that's hard for me sometimes.
00:48:51.66
Mike
Right.
00:48:58.66
Mike
Yeah.
00:48:59.12
Bill
because I'm on the phone. you know And um if somebody said that, hey, can you if I need something at 3 PM on a Thursday, I want to try to call you, are you going to be available?
00:49:00.86
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:49:08.30
Bill
ah More likely not. you know um But anytime after 5, the minute 503, my time, um I'm available.
00:49:09.92
Mike
Right.
00:49:12.47
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm. Right.
00:49:16.80
Bill
you know You can call me.
00:49:17.08
Mike
Right.
00:49:17.68
Bill
Let's talk. you know I'm good with it.
00:49:18.44
Mike
Yeah. I mean, you know, i again, same thing with me, you know, I mean, I'm fucking driving 80,000 pounds down the road.
00:49:21.46
Bill
Oh, yeah.
00:49:24.46
Mike
You know, I can't exactly just yeah grab my phone and text somebody or pick it up and talk or whatever. um you know I've always told people, yeah look, reach out to me, man. I will get back to you within 20 to 30 minutes if if it's like an emergency, but it is gonna be 20 to 30 minutes. you know It might be 10, but you know I mean, I can't just stop and and yeah yeah hit the brakes and fucking pick up my phone. I can't do that. I'm blowing down the freeway at 65 miles an hour, driving 80,000 pounds.
00:49:57.02
Mike
Um, so yeah, you know, I'm, I'm honest.
00:49:57.07
Bill
Right.
00:49:59.92
Mike
I say, look, man, if it's an emergency, reach out to me, you know, leave me a voicemail, text me, whatever. I will get back to you within a half an hour. It might be sooner, but you know, I will find a place.
00:50:11.84
Mike
I mean, if I get a text man, I'm fucking blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I'm gonna find something within 10, 15 minutes and pull over and get hold of them. But yeah, I, I can't.
00:50:24.99
Mike
instantly be there for anybody, anybody ever.
00:50:27.55
Bill
Right.
00:50:28.24
Mike
Yeah.
00:50:28.43
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, ah but that, that goes back to what we were talking about, you know, a little bit ago was the communication, you know, just being, being honest with people, not saying, Oh yeah.
00:50:34.37
Mike
Yup.
00:50:36.68
Bill
Hey, anytime.
00:50:37.48
Mike
Yeah, right. Right.
00:50:39.38
Bill
No, it's, it's not any time.
00:50:39.46
Mike
get Giving false hope. Right. You know, I'm not going to do that. I'll give you plenty of hope, but it's not going to be false. It's going to be based in reality because that's where I live today.
00:50:50.23
Bill
Right. But yeah, with the with the, you know, again, doing more of that sort of thing, and it, it is it's a, you know, I think it could be a detriment to our own, ah you know, peace and serenity if we're if we're always trying to like, am I enough?
00:51:04.75
Bill
Am I doing enough and all that sort of stuff? I mean, we've got it back to the comfortable in our own skin type of thing. And I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, we we were talking about we could talk about our our leads here in a second, but you and I had the conversation when we left there about, you know, meetings and and stuff like that.
00:51:10.99
Mike
Right.
00:51:21.14
Bill
Um, you know, should I go to more meetings? I don't know. Do I need to at the moment? Probably not.
00:51:25.33
Mike
No.
00:51:26.07
Bill
Um, you know, do I know where to go if I do need one?
00:51:28.59
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:51:29.17
Bill
Um, you know, every once in a while am I like, yeah, it'd be, it'd be fun to go. I would enjoy going. And, you know, I'm going to be down in, in Lake of the Ozarks again.
00:51:34.77
Mike
Right.
00:51:37.32
Bill
I went to a a small meeting there, which I really enjoyed. Um, and you know, during the week and stuff like that, maybe I will, maybe I won't. It depends on what I'm up to and what I feel like. and and that sort of thing. I like the i like the the being around people type of thing.
00:51:50.13
Bill
There's nothing wrong with the meeting. I enjoy it. I've never, not never.
00:51:52.77
Mike
Ah.
00:51:53.54
Bill
It's been a long, long, long, long time you know since I've been to a meeting that I'm just like, I'm only here because I just have to be.
00:51:57.13
Mike
ahha
00:52:02.18
Mike
Right. see Right.
00:52:04.68
Bill
I mean, if I go to a meeting you know these days, it's because I want to go. Even if I'm asked to lead a meeting like like you did, if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't have. But I mean, why? ah Again, the only way that I could have not led for you would have been to fucking lie to you.
00:52:20.03
Bill
and i and you know i I don't want to do that. Oh, um I'm busy that week.
00:52:23.50
Mike
right ah ha
00:52:25.44
Bill
you know Really? Doing what? you know and
00:52:30.22
Mike
I've got a putt that needs to be pulled.
00:52:32.83
Bill
Yeah, well well, two things, I don't have any desire to lie to you and I don't i don't have any reason to, you know?
00:52:36.03
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right.
00:52:39.88
Bill
And I wouldn't i ever think in my head that that I wouldn't want to to lead a meeting. So let's talk about all that stuff real quick, you know?
00:52:44.82
Mike
Yeah.
00:52:47.09
Bill
the So, you know, you, whatever it was, where we, oh yeah, it was after um after the podcast a couple of weeks ago.
00:52:52.66
Mike
yeah Right.
00:52:53.55
Bill
And you know, like you're like, hey, what are you doing on this date?
00:52:56.10
Mike
Yup.
00:52:56.82
Bill
Which, you know It's kind of like, again, the old meme that says, well, it literally depends on the next sentence that comes out of your mouth, which I and did not say that.
00:53:02.80
Mike
Right.
00:53:04.56
Bill
but you know So ah Mike was cheering.
00:53:04.64
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:53:07.75
Bill
His home group said, hey, you know he had ah he had a spot open for the for the last last meeting of the month.
00:53:08.82
Mike
Right?
00:53:13.29
Bill
And you know asked me if I wanted to leave the meeting. He's like, hey, you can hang out here for the week. And again, I have the flexibility to do it.
00:53:17.87
Mike
What?
00:53:19.81
Bill
So I said, yes, my friend, I would love to.
00:53:22.01
Mike
Hehehehe.
00:53:22.29
Bill
yeah But the cool part was is then, you know, the next week you're like, hey, by the way, yeah and you're like, you were leading a meeting on Saturday.
00:53:25.09
Mike
Mhm.
00:53:31.24
Bill
So we got to, you know, not only go to um to two meetings, which again was wonderful.
00:53:31.37
Mike
Yeah.
00:53:34.41
Mike
Mhm.
00:53:36.37
Bill
I had a great time, you know, both of them. But um so you got asked by our old sponsor to lead a meeting, which I thought was nice, right?
00:53:42.77
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, he had asked me and it was it was actually it was the end of of August. You know, when I was I was planning trying to get my leads together for September and he asked me if I would lead in September and he gave me a couple of dates to choose from. And I said, yeah, absolutely. This one. And by the way,
00:54:08.72
Mike
And it was funny because when he led for me he opened the lead he started his lead he goes So I asked Mike to lead for me and then he asked me to lead for him and we both said yes And that's how this thing works.
00:54:20.06
Mike
And let's say the our father ha ha ha ha ha but it was that's how he opened his lead it was hilarious and Then he proceeded to give his lead But yeah, it it is, you know, yes, that's what we do.
00:54:28.94
Bill
Right.
00:54:32.01
Mike
We help each other. We we have a ah the need that needs to be filled and we ask and somebody says yes.
00:54:38.88
Bill
Right. Yeah.
00:54:39.88
Mike
Yup.
00:54:40.06
Bill
And, uh, it was, it was nice. though I mean, you were, you were tired that night cause you'd led for, I think it was 15 minutes, which might be the the shortest.
00:54:43.26
Mike
Yes, I was.
00:54:47.08
Mike
Yeah.
00:54:48.30
Bill
That was probably the most abbreviated lead that I've ever, cause I've heard for everyone.
00:54:52.46
Mike
Right.
00:54:52.72
Bill
I mean, I've obviously obviously heard you like.
00:54:53.49
Mike
I've led longer and who do you know?
00:54:55.71
Bill
yeah Right, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, it's still, it was good. You hit all the main points and again, a room full of good, you know, good people, some people that we hadn't seen in a while and um like Chris and obviously again, the mat was there and you know, a few other people that we hadn't seen in a while and um you know, it is, it's it's nice to do that.
00:55:01.05
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:55:08.04
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:12.27
Bill
And then um I didn't even know how long, it was it 20 minutes that I led? I don't think I led for much longer than that, 20 or 25.
00:55:17.12
Mike
Ah, you did about 25.
00:55:19.81
Bill
Was it? Okay.
00:55:20.51
Mike
Yeah.
00:55:20.91
Bill
Yeah. And I just, I, well, you know me. I mean, the only reason I know how how long I talk on here is because I got a counter in front of my face.
00:55:23.15
Mike
Right.
00:55:27.25
Mike
Right.
00:55:27.96
Bill
And here's a funny thing though, that um when when I walked up there, I was specifically going to put my phone on top of the podium.
00:55:32.50
Mike
Right.
00:55:34.44
Bill
um I mean, it was on vibrate or whatever, or on do not disturb, but I just, so i I could keep track of the time.
00:55:37.66
Mike
right
00:55:40.33
Bill
Cause I don't, I get lost in in conversation. I didn't want to do that.
00:55:43.57
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:55:43.87
Bill
you know And there's no fucking clock in that room.
00:55:46.08
Mike
Yeah, I know.
00:55:46.36
Bill
you know So, um, you know, it was like halfway through the, I dunno, I'm guessing I was up there for five or 10 minutes. I'm like, fuck it. I don't want to reach, reach into my pocket. Then I thought that seemed kind of rude.
00:55:56.56
Bill
Like I'm checking, you know, fucking Instagram or something like that.
00:55:56.97
Mike
ah her
00:55:59.47
Mike
Right.
00:56:00.51
Bill
But, um, I mean, it's the same thing, you know, I get up there and, you know, our, our mindset, you know, has always been, and, uh, both of our sponsors to begin with told us that was, you know, just get it up there and, you know, talk about what you,
00:56:08.17
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:13.01
Bill
you know whatever's in your in your mind, you always open up with, I think that same story, right?
00:56:15.01
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:18.08
Bill
Is that kind of what you, yeah.
00:56:18.31
Mike
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. You know, I got I got to start and then I go from there. Right.
00:56:23.50
Bill
Yeah.
00:56:24.11
Mike
Yeah.
00:56:25.08
Bill
And that's, I mean, kind of what I do. I mean, I decided a long, long time ago, the best the best story to to tell and the best thing to open up with is basically my, you know, from when my dad died to my last drink, which is, you know, 30 days, 33 day period, you know?
00:56:33.70
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:39.51
Mike
Right.
00:56:39.96
Bill
Because it tells it tells the whole fucking story.
00:56:42.53
Mike
Yeah.
00:56:42.91
Bill
You know, it's just saying that this is who I was. This is where I ended up. And this, how I ever got there, fuck, I don't know, a lot of years of drinking, you know?
00:56:48.71
Mike
Right, yeah.
00:56:49.54
Bill
And it just, it doesn't matter what happened in between.
00:56:52.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:56:52.34
Bill
you know i don't even think i Did I even mention that my divorce and stuff like that? I think I got bypassed over.
00:56:55.99
Mike
my yeah You know, i you might have, I don't, shit, I don't remember.
00:57:00.04
Bill
Yeah.
00:57:01.40
Mike
I wasn't paying any attention, no.
00:57:03.71
Bill
Right. Well, I mean, why why would you? I mean, you've heard it all before, you know.
00:57:06.58
Mike
Right. I know the story, but no, I i paid attention because, you know, um at that point I'm like, you know, trying to, I'm listening to you talk to the people out there, you know, the new guys.
00:57:18.66
Bill
Mm-hmm.
00:57:19.02
Mike
That's, that's kind of how I, when I listened to a lead now, it's like, yeah, okay. I try, I look for something to relate to absolutely for myself, but I also like, is this person speaking to the new person?
00:57:30.42
Mike
Is the new person getting anything out of this?
00:57:33.05
Bill
Right.
00:57:33.40
Mike
you know, remembering, you know, what it was like to hear the leads and stuff. And yeah. You know, um that's that's how I gauge a lead. You know, is it gonna help the new guy?
00:57:40.83
Bill
Right.
00:57:43.64
Mike
It's kind of what I try to do with my lead.
00:57:43.73
Bill
Right.
00:57:45.69
Mike
You know, that's the way I, you know, I'm not gonna, yes, I'm gonna remind the guy who's got 30 years a little bit, but that's not why I'm there. I'm there to, you know, as as Joe and Bob and all those guys, you know, and I love that they do it, they say, oh, you're pitching tonight.
00:57:55.09
Bill
Right.
00:58:03.00
Mike
You know, you're giving the sales pitch.
00:58:04.99
Bill
Right.
00:58:05.32
Mike
you're Yeah, you're pitching tonight. You're selling this thing to the new guy. That's what the fuck you're supposed to be doing up there not talking about oh i went did This and I did that and I had these women and I had all this money and blah blah blah blah blah, you know, nobody fucking cares Yeah, when you walked in the fucking room with one day, do you have all that shit and shut the fuck up?
00:58:18.95
Bill
Right.
00:58:25.73
Bill
Yeah, and you know, the the funny thing is, and somebody said it to me at Who Do You Know the one time, and then somebody said it, forgetting and who said it to me on on Sunday, but they said, yeah, most people that open up with, you know, I don't, oh, um Andrew said it, when he was up with that, when he was commenting.
00:58:30.43
Mike
Hmm
00:58:37.96
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:58:41.51
Bill
he said He said, most people, when they say they don't do a drunk-a-log, they end up doing a drunk-a-log, and he said, he goes, you didn't do that, and I'm like, no, I don't, you know, we we decided a long time ago that we don't believe in that shit.
00:58:45.37
Mike
yeah
00:58:50.86
Mike
Right.
00:58:52.01
Bill
We got sick of listening to all of them and and whatever, and
00:58:53.85
Mike
Yeah, exactly.
00:58:55.85
Bill
You know,
00:58:55.91
Mike
As a new guy, I didn't want to fucking sit there and listen to that shit.
00:58:59.53
Bill
right.
00:59:00.20
Mike
Yup.
00:59:00.36
Bill
Yeah, and exactly. So, um, I dunno, it was just, it was really, it was really nice. You know what I, and I thought about it too. And you know, that you always, have not always, but a lot of times you hear people say in their leads, uh, you know, it's an honor and a privilege to lead a meeting of alcoholics anonymous.
00:59:13.84
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:59:15.89
Bill
And you know what?
00:59:16.07
Mike
ah
00:59:16.74
Bill
Sometimes when I hear people say it, I'm just like, man, yeah, yeah.
00:59:19.56
Mike
instance
00:59:19.88
Bill
But I thought about it you know the the other day and it might've been either during your lead or um you know or you know kind of afterwards leading and going into mine is, you know what, it is.
00:59:31.62
Bill
it's It is an honor and a privilege.
00:59:31.69
Mike
Yeah, it is.
00:59:33.06
Bill
you know And you know for a couple of different reasons, i'm um I like to be asked, it's nice you know to to be, because it is to be recognized or or to think somebody,
00:59:38.57
Mike
Right.
00:59:42.56
Bill
somebody might get value out of what I have to say, and then somebody else is saying, hey, here's your, I want you to put your value out there, which is, that is, that's an honor.
00:59:44.85
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:59:49.15
Mike
Right. It is.
00:59:50.85
Bill
But you know what, the the privileged part of it is the fact that I'm still alive to fucking do it.
00:59:54.41
Mike
Yup.
00:59:58.41
Bill
You know, I mean, whether I was sober or not, you know, obviously I lived, you know, to this point, well, not to this point, but I lived through my my drunkenness.
01:00:04.77
Mike
Mm
01:00:07.31
Bill
But, you know, that just again, you know, to have another day, you know, where you're up there and alive and, you know, occupying a room and, you know,
01:00:07.93
Mike
hmm.
01:00:15.30
Bill
breathing in some air, it is, it's ah it's a fucking privilege.
01:00:16.73
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep.
01:00:18.61
Bill
And to be able to hopefully, if nothing else, you know, having just, you know, it's ah the the new people out there or whoever it is, just one person get one nugget of information, I mean, then, you know, you you did your yeah did your thing, you know?
01:00:25.41
Mike
Yeah.
01:00:28.47
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:00:31.32
Mike
Absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, they they call it sharing your experience, your strength and your hope. Bring it all back to that hope shit.
01:00:37.19
Bill
Right, right.
01:00:39.63
Mike
Yup. Yup. Give somebody a little bit of hope, man. Hey, look, I was all fucked up too and I'm still all fucked up, but not as bad.
01:00:47.70
Bill
Yeah, oh, exactly.
01:00:48.61
Mike
And you can see me too.
01:00:51.36
Bill
Well, and i and i think that I think that is so important because even even with, I'm not trying to pat you and I in the back or anything like that, but I listen and I've been very open about listening to a lot of podcasts.
01:01:03.87
Bill
I listen to a lot of, you know obviously podcasts that have you know these more detailed stories. And you know there's a lot of times when you know the, People don't talk about you know the the struggles you know that they have now.
01:01:16.38
Mike
Right.
01:01:17.39
Bill
they don't They're not open about that part of this. just the It's almost still painting this rosy pink cloud picture.
01:01:20.21
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:01:23.54
Mike
Right.
01:01:24.17
Bill
which i mean So here's the deal. you know And we've we've already talked about it. you know know that Again, back to the saying that but my best day drunk was my best day sober, blah, blah, blah, all that bullshit.
01:01:34.62
Mike
Yeah, right, right, right.
01:01:35.05
Bill
you know And then you know there you go.
01:01:36.29
Mike
My worst day sober is better than my best day drunk. Fuck that shit.
01:01:39.36
Bill
There you go.
01:01:40.37
Mike
It was not.
01:01:40.47
Bill
yeah no Yeah, we had we we all had some good times, just depends on if you want to admit it.
01:01:45.11
Mike
Uh huh.
01:01:45.75
Bill
But then on top of that, I think it's important. I think it's, I'll say critical to let people know that just because you got 14 some years under your belt, doesn't mean you know that life doesn't go bad to you, shit doesn't get weird.
01:01:51.34
Mike
Hmm.
01:01:54.47
Mike
Right.
01:01:57.56
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:01:58.17
Bill
You don't have these mini mood swings all fucking day.
01:02:00.30
Mike
Right.
01:02:01.49
Bill
Again, I'm not saying that anyone else will, but I'm dealing with it. It's not, it's not you know, i
01:02:05.12
Mike
Yeah.
01:02:07.22
Bill
It's not clinical. you know I'm not having a real problem with it, but um again, everyone has their fucking struggles.
01:02:08.66
Mike
No, right.
01:02:13.99
Bill
Just because you're sober doesn't make life all...
01:02:14.01
Mike
Yeah. Strawberries and orgasms.
01:02:18.98
Bill
Thank you. I keep wanting to say fucking unicorns. It has nothing to do with unicorns in there, but...
01:02:25.13
Mike
Well, I mean, you know, if you're into that sort of thing, that horn could give you an orgasm.
01:02:30.03
Bill
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
01:02:30.67
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:02:32.04
Bill
A horn gasm.
01:02:32.18
Mike
Right.
01:02:35.27
Bill
Hello, hello.
01:02:36.23
Mike
Eunigasm.
01:02:39.68
Bill
ah but But yeah, I don't know. it's just it's Again, we're not 100% open with everything on on here or in our leads or anything like that.
01:02:46.37
Mike
Hmm. Yeah.
01:02:48.13
Bill
That's not the point. But um I think it's hugely important to let people know that you know shit still happens and that the key there is shit still happens. But you now have the ability, or you should have the ability and the tools.
01:03:00.24
Mike
Boom.
01:03:01.73
Bill
You got the tools.
01:03:02.82
Mike
Yep.
01:03:02.95
Bill
You should have the ability to deal with it. you know Maybe you need some help, but hey.
01:03:04.97
Mike
Yeah.
01:03:06.44
Bill
you know
01:03:06.74
Mike
Right. But you don't have to fucking drink or get high over it.
01:03:10.31
Bill
Right.
01:03:10.42
Mike
Don't have to. Right. It's always an option, but you don't have to.
01:03:12.63
Bill
Yeah.
01:03:16.59
Bill
Right. um All right. So and we talked about the always and never. So all or nothing is pretty much the same thing, right? I just saw that. Is it all or nothing kind of like it always or never?
01:03:27.70
Mike
Yeah.
01:03:29.32
Bill
Would you consider that the same thing? It just I had another thing wrote down about that. So let me cross that one out.
01:03:33.75
Mike
um Um, yeah, I guess. Yeah, you know, right. There are no, and there's no absolutes except the absolutes and they're not fucking absolute.
01:03:42.14
Bill
Right, okay, so I just crossed that one off.
01:03:42.66
Mike
Yup.
01:03:46.41
Bill
Well, no, it's it it's it's funny because i you know I had the never and always, but all or nothing, these things were written down over a period of time.
01:03:46.98
Mike
Problem solved.
01:03:54.42
Bill
So I mean, I don't know when you know when they were written down, but again, random one I'm gonna read, I have no idea what it is, from Keep It Simple, talked about us wanting to do things our way all the time.
01:03:55.20
Mike
Right.
01:04:04.75
Bill
Is it still difficult not to want to do everything yourself? That was from Keep It Simple. So for you to this,
01:04:10.31
Mike
Yeah. Fuck yeah.
01:04:15.08
Bill
So that kind of goes back to the act asking for help again, right? But you is.
01:04:17.84
Mike
Well, yeah, absolutely yeah letting down barriers and opening up and being vulnerable and all that. Fuck yes, man. Um, it's hard. Yes. And I want to do things my way. I want to make sure they're gone. Right. You know, whatever the fuck that is. Um, like I would know, um, right. Oh yeah. Chris gives me that shit all the time. You know, oh you're stubborn and you just, you know, you won't ask for help and you know, it's true. It's absolutely true. Um,
01:04:46.07
Mike
i'm better, a little bit better at it, but yeah, yeah it's it's still something I'm working on. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be working on it till my last fucking breath. I'm going to be taking that last breath going, I got this. It's all right. I'm going to fall over dead.
01:05:03.02
Bill
Yeah, take this breathing machine off of me. I got it.
01:05:05.21
Mike
I got it.
01:05:06.46
Bill
I got it. I got this thing.
01:05:09.13
Mike
Oh, right. Yeah.
01:05:13.15
Bill
But to I know i do I do the same thing. you know i I don't mind getting help sometimes. Well, here's the thing. Let's put it this way. There there are things that I know now, ah and I've talked about this, but I understand my my physical limitations.
01:05:22.12
Mike
Hmm.
01:05:25.97
Bill
That part I know.
01:05:26.01
Mike
Right.
01:05:27.36
Bill
But if it's something I can do, I just, you know nine times out of 10, I'd rather just do it.
01:05:27.44
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.
01:05:31.55
Bill
you know
01:05:31.93
Mike
Right.
01:05:32.58
Bill
Good example so Kathy and she's being extremely nice by doing it when I'm when I'm like loading up to to take a trip and stuff like that she you know nine times out of ten will ask me you know do you need any help in this time I just laughed at her I'm like I'm like no and I said you know I said you asked me it all the time but I said you know I always said oh she's like I'm just trying to be nice and I
01:05:48.08
Mike
Uh huh.
01:05:51.52
Bill
I said, the reason I'm laughing is because um there I just don't know how I would allow anyone to help. you know Because first of all, it it only takes me about 15 minutes, literally, to to load the car.
01:05:58.41
Mike
Right.
01:06:02.38
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:06:04.31
Bill
It depends on, well, in your house, it might take me 20 because I got to go around and up 17 stairs. and yeah um But no, I'm just kidding.
01:06:11.43
Mike
Over to the West Wing and yes.
01:06:12.72
Bill
yeah Yeah, it's like, where the fuck am I anymore? And literally, it edd anyone, anyone, to you don't know this, but it is, it's it's a big old house, a hundred and how old many years?
01:06:22.17
Mike
Five.
01:06:23.05
Bill
Okay, so from ah like right now, I'm facing the backyard, okay? But to to get to my car from here, I turn around, then I face the front yard.
01:06:33.92
Bill
I walk out, then I face the driveway, which is to the left. Then I walk down one set of stairs, then I turn and I face the front yard again. Then I face the other neighbor, then I face the backyard, then I face the driveway, then I face the right yard.
01:06:45.41
Mike
Hehehehe.
01:06:46.92
Bill
This is literally walking around through us, and I'm in only two floors, but it's around these different doors and rooms.
01:06:50.88
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.
01:06:53.08
Bill
so um But anyhow, I i digress.
01:06:55.41
Mike
Hehehehe.
01:06:56.49
Bill
um But so it only takes me that amount of time, and I know where everything goes. I've got it down to literally this this packing rhythm.
01:07:03.07
Mike
Right.
01:07:04.01
Bill
It's a puzzle that I've learned how to put together.
01:07:06.10
Mike
Right.
01:07:06.37
Bill
And the only thing that somebody might be able to do would be to carry shit outside, or I think you helped me one time when I got here, you helped me carry shit in the house.
01:07:11.57
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
01:07:13.94
Bill
you know
01:07:14.16
Mike
Yeah. Right.
01:07:14.78
Bill
um
01:07:15.00
Mike
Bring it down to the car and then set it next to the car. I'm not going to try to put something in there because right.
01:07:20.74
Bill
yeah
01:07:21.47
Mike
Yeah.
01:07:21.52
Bill
Right.
01:07:21.79
Mike
You've got your, you've got your puzzle worked out.
01:07:24.14
Bill
Yeah, but but even and that's that's literally what it is.
01:07:24.48
Mike
You're a little Tetris game.
01:07:28.36
Bill
It's I could but I I know now exactly where and I've gotten it down to the point where um I know like, for instance, I had a I bought a a case of diet Dr. Pepper in the cube, you know, when I got here, but I still had a 12 pack in a 12.
01:07:39.95
Mike
right
01:07:41.80
Bill
I can either get 212 packs behind my seat of soda, by the way, that's anything else. And they would listen to 12 packs of soda. um Or if I have a cube like that, there's no comfortable place for me to pack it, it doesn't fit.
01:07:54.36
Mike
ah ha
01:07:54.64
Bill
unless the only thing I did one time is it was like I had a 12 pack left in it I literally um I kind of like loosened everything up and folded down the top part so it would fit in into my trunk I'm telling you I mean I know how this shit fits so I took
01:08:02.64
Mike
Right. Right.
01:08:08.10
Mike
right
01:08:10.25
Bill
Basically, I put the stuff into the 12 pack. Now I'm going to end up leaving a few sodas here because I'm like, fuck it. I'm not going to try to carry the other one.
01:08:16.07
Mike
Yeah.
01:08:16.20
Bill
But so, but again, same thing, even with that, with having her, there's no sense in me and her even taking the time and doing that part because again, it doesn't take that long.
01:08:23.00
Mike
What?
01:08:25.13
Bill
I walk up, up, up, up.
01:08:25.66
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:08:26.54
Bill
It's all loaded up. you know, but you know, part of that is just that, I mean, asking for, yeah, I mean, asking, asking for help. And um sometimes it just, I don't know, still to this day, I suppose is just easier to do things ourselves sometimes, right?
01:08:39.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:08:40.74
Bill
I mean, yeah, yeah.
01:08:42.10
Mike
Yeah. yeah Right. But, but, you know, i um, thankfully we have the awareness if, for lack of a better word to, you know, if there is something that we truly don't fucking have a clue about, um, we know better today than to go, Oh, I'll, I'll figure it out. Well, maybe I won't.
01:09:04.81
Mike
You know, if I truly don't know how to solve a problem, um, I will ask for help. I will ask for opinions if nothing else today, you know, which, yeah, which learned thanks to this program, learn to do that.
01:09:14.18
Bill
Right.
01:09:18.38
Mike
But yeah, if it's something I know how to do, um, yes, I would much rather just do it myself. Yeah.
01:09:26.93
Bill
Yeah, and I get it. I mean, it is. I'm still, you know to this day, I'm probably, um I don't know if less stubborn or just maybe um stubborn in a better way.
01:09:37.60
Mike
All right.
01:09:38.39
Bill
I'm not i' that as much of a dick when I'm stubborn, maybe. Is that is that it?
01:09:40.83
Mike
who Yeah.
01:09:42.08
Bill
I can kindly be more kindly stubborn.
01:09:44.04
Mike
All right. Yes. Yes. I like that.
01:09:47.51
Bill
yeah
01:09:47.62
Mike
Thank you.
01:09:48.80
Bill
You're welcome. yeah I can see Chris say, God damn it, don't tell him that shit.
01:09:51.01
Mike
who Yeah. I know. Yeah. It's I'm sure should be listening at this at work next week and go fuck.
01:09:56.45
Bill
yeah
01:09:56.99
Mike
you
01:09:57.20
Bill
so Sorry, Chris, sorry, sorry. like Next time I see her, she's gonna slap me. Yeah, motherfucker, she's using that all the time.
01:10:03.25
Mike
Yep. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
01:10:05.62
Bill
yeah But um yeah, so again, that was just kind of random, but yeah, I mean, I get it. to we're We're far from, I think we're not perfect yet, right?
01:10:13.93
Mike
No.
01:10:15.22
Bill
Coming to, is that year 15?
01:10:19.08
Bill
yeah
01:10:19.70
Mike
Ah, no.
01:10:21.92
Bill
All right, so next one. um I don't remember if we talked about this before, but I think it's worth repeating even if not. So this was from the 24-hour book. And it said, most of our spiritual experiences are of the educational variety, and they develop slowly over a period of time.
01:10:39.96
Mike
Right. Well, that's actually from the big book, but yeah.
01:10:40.28
Bill
um
01:10:43.00
Bill
Yeah, but I mean, I took the, right.
01:10:43.74
Mike
I know, but he took it out of the 24 hour book, right? But they've been quoting the big book for a while. So recent readings.
01:10:49.13
Bill
yeah Yeah, and that might've been, yeah, that might've been more of a recent one, but you're you're right, I apologize.
01:10:52.26
Mike
Yeah.
01:10:53.82
Bill
Yeah, is it is from from, ultimately from the big book.
01:10:54.35
Mike
Yeah.
01:10:57.57
Bill
And i I think we've talked about that before, but I don't know, maybe, again, you know thinking about if there are people that are new-ish out there listening to us.
01:11:04.19
Mike
Right.
01:11:05.66
Bill
um you know Again, the having these the spiritual experience has talked about, especially if you're in a 12-step program, um I mean, how do you feel about that?
01:11:12.12
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:11:14.46
Bill
Was yours more slow? I know they say sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.
01:11:18.55
Mike
Right.
01:11:19.48
Bill
What did you deal with?
01:11:20.91
Mike
Oh, but slowly still am right.
01:11:23.02
Bill
Right. ah
01:11:24.98
Mike
I, right. I mean, you know, right. Bill Wilson saw the flash of light and he was all fixed and cured. No, he wasn't. Yeah. know He just saw the flash of light. Um, and, um, yeah, right.
01:11:36.96
Mike
No, I'm still working on it, man. You know, yes, it's, it's been slow. My, my, my spiritual, um, ah Outlook um on life is um is always changing, you know and it is very slow. It's pretty much the same as it was yesterday, and it's very, very different than it was 14 years ago. um Yeah, yeah that's and hopefully 14 years, if I make it that long, um it'll be vastly different than it is today. you know um Tomorrow, it's gonna be about the same. but
01:12:11.72
Bill
Right.
01:12:12.85
Mike
More than likely. I don't know. Maybe I'll get the flash of light when I wake up in the morning. Not counting on it though.
01:12:18.12
Bill
hi I can turn my like my phone light on you in the morning at 6 when I'm leaving. Do you want me to do that?
01:12:23.72
Mike
Yeah, right. and You can get blinded too, but it'll not be from a flash of light from a phone.
01:12:27.99
Bill
yeah Right, yeah. and First of all, yeah I get it.
01:12:30.14
Mike
You've seen the three Stooges, right?
01:12:34.64
Bill
I wouldn't do it anyhow.
01:12:35.47
Mike
yeah
01:12:35.52
Bill
But no, I don't want to get so want to get hit today or tomorrow.
01:12:37.10
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:12:40.98
Bill
but um
01:12:41.09
Mike
But yes, yes, it's slow. And I think like we've talked about everything good, everything meaningful happens slowly.
01:12:43.22
Bill
Yeah.
01:12:49.22
Mike
If it happens quickly, it's cheap.
01:12:52.73
Bill
Right.
01:12:52.84
Mike
Yeah. I think, you know, anything I've gotten quickly and easily, I, I don't value it.
01:12:54.55
Bill
Right.
01:12:57.38
Bill
Right.
01:12:59.48
Mike
And, um, and it doesn't last, you know, the good shit takes time. And that includes spirituality.
01:13:05.57
Bill
right
01:13:09.24
Bill
Yeah, and I know that, I mean, again, I'm sure, you know, through the big book and meetings and in everything else and groups when we first, you know, got sober, um I know I heard a lot of people, especially the whole third step thing, you know, when people are sit down and do a prayer and do this in a special place and whatever it was.
01:13:25.68
Bill
and
01:13:25.88
Mike
Right.
01:13:26.97
Bill
um even having you know that you know that that initial that initial feeling you know that that moment of clarity um I mean I didn't even really have that you know I was just fucking taking someplace which again I'm not it all the things happened
01:13:34.45
Mike
Right.
01:13:37.17
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:13:41.57
Mike
if
01:13:42.93
Bill
The way that things happen, to to I don't say to be, the way that things have happened in my sobriety, in my path, needed to happen the way that they did.
01:13:49.60
Mike
Right.
01:13:51.01
Bill
it just And I'm fine with that.
01:13:52.49
Mike
Right.
01:13:53.32
Bill
but you know So I look at that moment of clarity, yeah I didn't really have one. um i mean i If I had a moment of clarity, it was in about nine months, and we know those stories.
01:13:57.58
Mike
right
01:14:01.10
Mike
right Right.
01:14:02.60
Bill
you know But I didn't have that initial one to say, I need to get sober type of thing. um Again, I never had these flashes. I never had the the true, as they say, quote unquote, God moments or anything like that.
01:14:13.16
Mike
Right.
01:14:14.02
Bill
I get you know light bulb moments, kind of like, holy shit, that's what that means.
01:14:16.63
Mike
Right. Right.
01:14:17.67
Bill
you know Or I never saw that word before, whatever the case is. But those are just, that's just me paying attention.
01:14:21.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:14:24.17
Bill
you know Finally, or having somebody explain it to me and having me listen, finally.
01:14:24.62
Mike
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:14:29.74
Bill
um And you know what, to begin with, that Fucking pissed me off that I never got any of that.
01:14:34.12
Mike
sentence
01:14:34.74
Bill
I'm like, I want all this shit. I want the flashing lights.
01:14:36.68
Mike
Sure.
01:14:37.67
Bill
I want, I want clarity, you know?
01:14:38.10
Mike
a I want the angels to sing.
01:14:42.60
Bill
Yeah. I'm not even a fucking God guy, but can you give me a God moment?
01:14:45.10
Mike
Right.
01:14:46.20
Bill
Give me one.
01:14:46.58
Mike
Great. Yeah. Uh-huh.
01:14:49.24
Bill
You know, I just, all those sort of things. And then finally I'm like, but and yeah you know, you read the book and all this shit, you know, it literally says in the big book, you know, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. And 100%, what you just said is, is how my, my life has been and which used to piss me off.
01:15:08.60
Bill
But it's how my sobriety has been, which is why I appreciate it, I think, the way that I do.
01:15:12.68
Mike
Right.
01:15:14.48
Bill
And in all the things I have, I don't feel like I have a lot when it comes to stuff, you know?
01:15:20.39
Mike
Right.
01:15:20.97
Bill
um Some of this by choice, some of this, you know, by the fact that I have, you know, I've never had a ton of money to go out and buy me a bunch of shit, which I don't really care about, you know?
01:15:27.84
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:15:29.91
Bill
um But, you know, the the gifts that I have, when I look at, again, we talked about my grandson, we talked about my kids, you know, the relationships.
01:15:33.96
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
01:15:37.60
Bill
I mean, our mom and that relationship, and I go back to Larry and, you know, I get all the other family, I get Kathy and, you know, cousins and all this shit.
01:15:44.40
Mike
right
01:15:46.59
Bill
and just see the people in in my life and the people that you and I have in our lives. I mean those are the things that I mean those are the gifts you know but but still we we obtained and attained those very slowly.
01:15:55.80
Mike
Yeah.
01:16:01.41
Bill
It seemed like I feel like I got all that shit back pretty quickly but
01:16:01.68
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
01:16:05.66
Bill
Really, when I look back at it, there's still moments when you look back and you're like, okay, I'm still earning the trust of people.
01:16:11.44
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:16:15.22
Bill
I have to do that.
01:16:16.99
Mike
Yeah.
01:16:17.44
Bill
People don't forget. Dawn, again, my ex-wife said it the best way, early, early, early sobriety, months in.
01:16:19.42
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:16:23.65
Mike
Right.
01:16:25.88
Bill
I forgive you, but I will never forget.
01:16:26.92
Mike
Yep.
01:16:29.54
Bill
And I'm sure she probably said it exactly like that. Never forget.
01:16:32.34
Mike
ah
01:16:34.98
Bill
And that's because that's how that's how she talks, you know?
01:16:37.39
Mike
sir
01:16:37.50
Bill
And I don't be grudger for that, you know? in um But you know what? When what I walked into, when I went up to Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago for my for my birthday, I don't know if, you know, I talked about this.
01:16:47.66
Bill
we I posted it, I know.
01:16:49.30
Mike
Uh,
01:16:49.62
Bill
But so I knew it was, Kimmy was coming down, Brian was coming down, Ollie, that's my my grandson, of my so daughter and son-in-law. And then my my son and then Katie, his girlfriend were gonna be there, that I knew for sure.
01:16:57.31
Mike
yep.
01:17:01.33
Mike
Right.
01:17:01.57
Bill
There's been times when you know Derek has said, you know hey, Corey's gonna come along, their mom and Corey are coming along, whatever the case is.
01:17:06.84
Mike
Right.
01:17:08.14
Bill
And sometimes it's just silly, he'll say, do you mind? Which I never do. but um So nobody said anything about it, but when i when I walked into the restaurant, because I knew they were gonna be there a little earlier, because the game was on, and I walked in and i saw I saw Derek and Katie, they were kind of facing the side towards me.
01:17:24.30
Bill
But then right away, I saw a daughter and Corey, I'm like, oh. So I went up and right behind Dawn and, you know, kind of popped her under the, you know, under the armpits with by both my fingers. She's like, ba but then she got up right away and hugged me, you know.
01:17:33.56
Mike
ahha Yep.
01:17:37.03
Bill
And then I shook Corey's hand and, you know, obviously was talking to, obviously my son and his girlfriend and gave them hugs. And then Dawn says to me, she's like, I love the fact that you're always going to be older than me. ah and i said you know what i said i was just talking to somebody the other day on this uh one of the social media things and i'm like just realized that and i actually posted i'm talking about aging i said you know aging is a gift she's like yeah that's true but i said yeah fucking i'm still older you you're right but those little things i mean
01:18:08.11
Bill
My ex-wife, I mean, to, I don't know, even to the longest time, I mean, she was always cordial to me, you know, after I got sober.
01:18:13.17
Mike
Alright. Mhm.
01:18:15.87
Bill
But I mean, it's literally been over the last, I don't know, handful of years, maybe, you know, so maybe from it, maybe it took nine years for her to completely open up to me.
01:18:19.54
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.
01:18:26.05
Bill
I don't know, you know, but, but I'll tell you what, those relationships, man, I wouldn't trade any of that for the fucking world, you know?
01:18:27.46
Mike
Right.
01:18:32.60
Mike
Absolutely. Right. Yeah. you and Yeah. It took about 90 years for her to go, I guess, I guess he's going to be like this now. So good. Right.
01:18:43.17
Bill
yeah
01:18:43.89
Mike
Right.
01:18:43.95
Bill
Yeah.
01:18:44.13
Mike
well Again. we Fucking what? Our fourth episode waiting for that other shoe to drop. Yeah. They're fucking waiting for it too, man.
01:18:49.47
Bill
Right. Right.
01:18:51.58
Mike
And why wouldn't they be?
01:18:53.65
Bill
Right. Well, and and I think that, God, there was a certain point when i was trying I was trying to kind of do the math in my head. I'm like, okay, wait, when when did we meet? And how how how many years was I good to her? And how many years is I shitty to her? How many years do I have to be sober until i can until I can outweigh that? You know, I was going to jokingly bring it up to her, you know, just to see the look on her face. And then I forgot, you know, but um
01:19:16.48
Mike
Good.
01:19:17.46
Bill
Yeah, I know but it's just ah I mean I like fucking around with her but um You know, she's she's a good shit and Cory to Cory and I are shooting the shit back And again, this is this is my ex-wife's husband, you know, and I love that guy.
01:19:26.41
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.
01:19:29.60
Bill
I really do I mean he's a good dude, you know, and I don't know it just I don't even know how how we get off out all was the last thing that I read most of our oh, yeah ah Slowly, yeah sometimes slowly but
01:19:30.39
Mike
Yup. Yup.
01:19:36.75
Mike
I don't know, but that's sometimes slowly, right? Yup. Sometimes slowly.
01:19:43.32
Bill
But it's it's so fucking worth it, you know?
01:19:45.30
Mike
Yup.
01:19:45.88
Bill
And and all this shit is worth the wait. And literally, um and you said you just said it best, you know, anything that you get quickly, what'd you say is cheap?
01:19:52.72
Mike
Yeah, right. Well, yeah, exactly. yeah Think about it, man. If you were three months sober and all this shit was coming at you, right?
01:19:58.84
Bill
Oh.
01:20:00.28
Mike
Yeah.
01:20:00.45
Bill
Right.
01:20:00.96
Mike
Well, you'd have been, of course. Well, I'm fucking wonderful. La, la, la, la, la. No, it fucking nine years ago. Hmm. This is pretty fucking great. Yeah, man.
01:20:09.81
Bill
right
01:20:10.01
Mike
There you go. Perfect example. I guess I was right.
01:20:14.91
Bill
Yeah, cause I mean shit it it three think about three months.
01:20:17.66
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:20:17.83
Bill
We were coming out of being locked down at the Keating Center for the first time.
01:20:19.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:20:21.49
Bill
I saw my son for the first time after three months.
01:20:21.52
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah. Nope.
01:20:24.41
Bill
um i was working and oh No, I hadn't even gotten the job yet at the fucking factory.
01:20:27.32
Mike
Yeah.
01:20:28.62
Bill
the job that i I hadn't even gotten the job that I hated yet.
01:20:31.88
Mike
Right.
01:20:35.17
Mike
um
01:20:35.47
Bill
People are stealing our fucking food.
01:20:37.60
Mike
Yeah. It's still in your fucking Cheetos, man.
01:20:41.34
Bill
Yeah.
01:20:42.06
Mike
Life is grand.
01:20:42.30
Bill
ah
01:20:43.22
Mike
I'm sober.
01:20:45.22
Bill
Right.
01:20:46.06
Mike
Yeah.
01:20:47.77
Bill
yeah But um I know for a fact, it's just the way, yeah, the way that I am. i whatever Whatever force is out there that didn't give me any of this shit right away, thank you.
01:20:56.01
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:20:56.80
Bill
And you know don't do it, make me keep working for it because I i hate i hate having these little setbacks, you know but I'm not hate.
01:20:59.25
Mike
Yeah.
01:21:03.05
Mike
Hmm.
01:21:03.81
Bill
there They could be just like anything else.
01:21:05.76
Mike
Yeah, dislike.
01:21:06.31
Bill
You're like, yeah, like yeah I'm not a fan.
01:21:08.43
Mike
I do not like them. I dislike them.
01:21:12.46
Bill
Yeah, I'm not a fan, not a fan of setbacks.
01:21:14.17
Mike
Nope.
01:21:15.39
Bill
um you know But fuck, man, it's just like, okay, well, I guess I gotta work on something else now. So, you know, think things are going smooth for a couple of minutes.
01:21:20.55
Mike
Yeah.
01:21:24.24
Bill
but So here's here's the thing, and that that I laugh at it, but so many fucking people, and you read these memes and stuff like that on social media, blah, blah, blah, and then shit went bad again, blah, blah, blah, and then shit,
01:21:36.54
Mike
Yeah,
01:21:37.45
Bill
fucked up and then oh i thought things were good and then it was you know four minutes later whatever the deal was and i'm like i i just that what a that's a miserable existence right right right i know i know
01:21:46.39
Mike
yeah absolutely. Right. Yeah. You're focused. Yeah. Well, how about that fucking four minutes where things are pretty goddamn good. Why don't you focus on that for a minute? Asshole. I'm talking to myself, of course.
01:21:59.23
Bill
right And you know what? I was talking about it before. you know i get I'll be in a great mood for a couple of minutes and I fucking nose dive in my head.
01:22:02.82
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:22:06.56
Mike
Yup.
01:22:06.60
Bill
I'm like, what the fuck did that go?
01:22:08.38
Mike
Yup.
01:22:08.79
Bill
i just don't i just Part of it sometimes I'm like, I just don't even know. What the fuck? you know But the point is, is that I'm, ah regardless of anything else and being impatient and time takes time and all that sort of shit, um i am I am grateful that things have and will continue to happen the way that they do.
01:22:26.50
Mike
Hmm.
01:22:29.24
Bill
Because nothing, I couldn't plan it. I couldn't plan it, I was gonna say any better. I couldn't plan it at all. How's that?
01:22:35.19
Mike
Nope. No. Right. My life is unmanageable.
01:22:38.22
Bill
yeah Right, I don't manage my own life.
01:22:40.80
Mike
I cannot manage my own life. That's right.
01:22:44.33
Bill
14 and a half years later, I don't manage my old life. yeah I listen to you every once in a while.
01:22:49.25
Mike
ah
01:22:49.74
Bill
I listen to you. um Okay, let's try one more here. um Oh, okay, so this is this is random um from God grant me um what are three things I can do to improve the quality of my recovery today.
01:22:56.55
Mike
Hmm.
01:23:07.79
Bill
This is from a while ago, but since we've been talking about how God damn good we got it.
01:23:09.78
Mike
Hmm.
01:23:12.19
Mike
far fur first
01:23:15.16
Bill
um I don't know anything that you could do to improve the quality of your recovery today.
01:23:20.09
Mike
Um, everything. No. Oh, the quality of my recovery is pretty fucking good. Yes. Of course. If I knew how to improve it, I'd fucking be doing it. We didn't. Right. Yeah. I still have shit to learn. Um,
01:23:38.28
Mike
Right. If I could improve the and quality of my recovery, I would have done it 25 years ago.
01:23:45.84
Bill
yeah
01:23:45.87
Mike
Wait, I've only been sober for 14 and a half years. Right.
01:23:48.97
Bill
Right.
01:23:49.14
Mike
Um, yeah, no, god there's nothing I can do. Uh, no, I'm clearly, uh, you know, be open and, and, and continue to learn and continue to, work, man. Continue to nurture that hope. Keep feeding that shit, man. Um, yeah, that's, you know, nothing dramatic, nothing huge, you know, um, keep doing what I'm doing and, and which is continue to grow, continue to, yeah, there's nothing drastic. Again, it's not going to be that fucking flash of light with any of this shit. Slowly, slowly. Oh, achingly slowly.
01:24:28.42
Bill
Yeah, and you know, I mean, the ah this was towards the top of my my list, so this had to have been a while ago, and i I think I probably wrote that down because I knew what the answer would be, um because it's what it's what we talk about all the time, you know?
01:24:38.18
Mike
yes Yeah.
01:24:42.38
Bill
and i mean the well and i I kind of liken it to what I was saying, you know, with my work stuff, you know, when, if, ah I don't know, whatever it is, my boss will say, ah oh, numbers are down and this and that, blah, blah, blah.
01:24:55.20
Bill
You know, in your, I would think, you know, again, quote, unquote, average employee would say, oh, I got to get my ass moved. I've got to do this. But that would mean, if I thought that way, that would mean that I haven't been working very well and I've been slacking off and this and that.
01:25:05.97
Mike
right
01:25:08.62
Bill
and I think I looked at that the same way when I wrote that down is that if I have to look at, oh God, you know I should be doing this, I should be doing that, should be doing this, and these here's three things that can improve my sobriety.
01:25:16.16
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:25:21.30
Bill
Why the fuck have I been doing them?
01:25:22.99
Mike
Yeah, why are I doing a right?
01:25:25.57
Bill
I mean, that would that would scare me if I had three things. Now, two to your point when you said everything, I think that's a perfect answer because I know that that goes back to the point of, I know for i know for a fact that you know neither one of our, and I'm gonna speak for you, neither one of our recoveries are perfect, you know because we've said that.
01:25:28.55
Mike
Yeah.
01:25:32.93
Mike
Yeah.
01:25:40.62
Mike
Yeah. Nope.
01:25:44.05
Bill
you know And it's not as though we we think that, oh yeah, look at us.
01:25:44.23
Mike
Yeah.
01:25:50.71
Mike
Yes.
01:25:50.73
Bill
ah yeah
01:25:51.63
Mike
I have missed a recovery.
01:25:54.21
Bill
uh you want to know how to but what sobriety looks like hey who's who's guy who's got two thumbs that has showed you what sobriety looks like hey this guy
01:25:57.70
Mike
You're looking at it, baby.
01:26:03.45
Mike
That's right.
01:26:05.58
Bill
yeah
01:26:05.60
Mike
Two thumbs in his sober as fuck.
01:26:08.90
Bill
Yeah, and you know you want to be me.
01:26:11.88
Mike
yeah That's right.
01:26:13.59
Bill
um But no, and I think this I think that's comforting to be able to sit back and not to say that our recovery is without flaws or can't be improved, but to to not not be able to or not to to be able to pick out.
01:26:17.18
Mike
Of course, of course.
01:26:27.53
Mike
Right.
01:26:27.99
Bill
um
01:26:28.41
Mike
And again, if we have this fucking knowledge of how we can make it so much better, why the fuck aren't we doing it?
01:26:33.05
Bill
yeah Right.
01:26:35.79
Mike
Right. I'm doing what I'm, what I know to do and it's working and I, and I know that I don't know everything and I need to continue to learn.
01:26:45.48
Bill
Right.
01:26:45.84
Mike
That's what I can do.
01:26:46.10
Bill
Yeah, yeah i i get know I agree. i just I laughed when you said everything, because I'm like, OK, that's it.
01:26:52.29
Mike
and
01:26:53.65
Bill
That's the that's the answer. that's That's, again, one of your what are your blanket answers that fits.
01:26:55.34
Mike
Yeah.
01:26:58.43
Bill
It fucking fits, because I'm like, oh, well, OK, yeah, I guess.
01:27:01.11
Mike
Hmm.
01:27:02.25
Bill
but um ah always areas that that I know for a fact, well, I don't know, but I'm quite positive that there are things that I could be doing that might enhance my recovery, but I just, I don't know what they are.
01:27:10.31
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:27:13.82
Bill
but more more will be More will be revealed.
01:27:14.05
Mike
Right. Don't know yet. Yes. Right. Yeah. Again, man, if we fucking do them and we're not doing it, well, what the fuck?
01:27:23.43
Bill
Yeah, that's a that's ah that's a bigger problem than the you know us sitting back and not being able to think of what we could do better.
01:27:23.43
Mike
yeah
01:27:29.53
Mike
Right. Yeah. If I knew what to do better, I'd be doing it. I don't know what to do better.
01:27:32.85
Bill
and Right.
01:27:33.94
Mike
So when I do know, then I will do it.
01:27:36.43
Bill
Right.
01:27:37.09
Mike
Yeah.
01:27:37.82
Bill
Agreed. Well, you know what? And I think here, this is, okay, this is going to be a good fucking segue. Everyone sit back, wait for it.
01:27:43.86
Mike
All right. Okay, I'm gonna sit back.
01:27:45.02
Bill
I know we got, I know we can't do any better than this.
01:27:46.04
Mike
I'm sitting back. I'm way back here now.
01:27:53.64
Bill
So let's end this fucking thing right now.
01:27:53.68
Mike
yeah ah All right, let's do it. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. As always, be good to each other, be kind to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it. We heard some of that this week.
01:28:14.83
Mike
Oh, I did this, I did that, I did this. Shut the fuck up, man. Don't tell me, man. Just go do it. All right, anyway. Now, ah from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time to the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you. Now it's time to fuck off.
01:28:34.66
Mike
Now it's time to keep fucking off Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with the sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here climb over that gate Dream the impossible dream Keep fucking off forever you
01:28:51.42
Bill
Can't talk about fucking mood swings.
01:28:55.80
Bill
Thank you very much. But no, that was a good one. I liked it. I liked that whole thing, especially your your little hole, you know, kind of like inserting the little, oh, this is what I did.
01:29:04.53
Mike
Yeah.
01:29:06.38
Bill
I was laughing.
01:29:06.51
Mike
Yeah.
01:29:07.10
Bill
I was laughing.
01:29:08.69
Mike
Good. Good. Cause yes, like we did. We saw a couple of real nice examples of that this week. And I was just like, really shut the fuck up, man. Didn't say that, but God knows I was screaming it in my head.
01:29:19.27
Bill
Right.
01:29:22.11
Bill
Exactly. But see, that's what, that's what matters that step back to that 10 step or just a second. That's where those 10 steps, you know, kind of hold us back a little bit, just the program in general.
01:29:30.03
Mike
fool
01:29:31.49
Bill
So yeah. So we're going to tell all the people what we, what we think of their silly fucking stupid asses. All right, man. On that note, uh, you know what? I love you, brother.
01:29:41.18
Mike
I love you too.
01:29:42.91
Bill
I was going to talk to you, see if I can see you in a minute.
01:29:45.17
Mike
Yeah, right.
01:29:45.45
Bill
So all right, man.
01:29:45.73
Mike
Right across the fucking hall.
01:29:49.05
Bill
Bye.
01:29:49.45
Mike
Bye.
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