SoberNotMature - Episode 139 (Life Boogers and Other Muck)

00:00:01.99
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature and tonight i am uh coming to you from a place that i want to get the fuck out of

00:00:13.63
Mike
Really?

00:00:14.95
Bill
Yeah, I'll talk about it more later, but hey, the area is fucking wonderful.

00:00:16.72
Mike
yeah All right.

00:00:19.52
Bill
The trails I went to are beautiful. The place I'm staying at, eh, it's again, we've got we've got an hour and a half. um i don't I don't have an hour and a half worth of story, but yeah, I gotta get some things.

00:00:32.33
Bill
I'm looking, yeah, really, really, really, really, really looking forward to getting the fuck out of here. So I'll explain, I'll get to it.

00:00:36.79
Mike
yeah

00:00:38.63
Bill
That's what we call a tease.

00:00:39.27
Mike
Ooh, how professional.

00:00:42.96
Bill
I know, yeah. i wait I play one on the podcast, you know. But um i other things that I know, well, I think we would like to talk about Al's dad passed away.

00:00:53.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:00:54.10
Bill
um Love to touch on that if we could. um Your Tigers lost, boo.

00:00:57.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:58.60
Bill
But the Indians had a a hell of a a thing happen last night.

00:01:02.23
Mike
The Deans.

00:01:03.66
Bill
but Yeah, sorry, the the Gar-Dians.

00:01:06.07
Mike
Right. The Deans.

00:01:07.93
Bill
Yeah, but it was just funny. I mean, I i have not been paying attention. I know you you're the baseball follower, so you get to you get to keep us up to date on the baseball.

00:01:11.92
Mike
Well,

00:01:16.73
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:01:16.93
Bill
um But you know I can't help but not see it and hear about it on the radio and stuff like that. And then I came across, I think it was Instagram or something like that.

00:01:20.86
Mike
Right.

00:01:24.38
Bill
Somebody had posted, like from one of the buildings, they had obviously the video with audio of when when the dude hit the hit that walk off homer.

00:01:30.79
Mike
Uh huh.

00:01:33.92
Bill
and I mean the the sound, i they were like five blocks away, six, seven, 10 block, whatever it was.

00:01:38.20
Mike
Right.

00:01:39.55
Bill
I was just like, holy fuck man, it was it was unbelievable. So yeah, I mean,

00:01:42.73
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, it it was a good game last night. Yes, it was.

00:01:47.35
Bill
Well, and that and that's the thing, you know, the, I don't know, sports are are what they are. And ah quite honestly, this year, unless they're late games, i um some of the ones like last weekend, I didn't get to see the game.

00:01:58.85
Bill
It wasn't on, so I was out kicking around anyhow.

00:02:00.48
Mike
Right.

00:02:00.77
Bill
This this weekend, the same thing. I don't think it's going to be on in the area that I'm going to be in, which again, part of it, I can update scores and watch and whatever. So I'll probably end up seeing late games and night games and and that sort of thing, which is fine.

00:02:08.51
Mike
right

00:02:13.18
Bill
You know, I'd rather be out experiencing shit while the weather is decent.

00:02:16.22
Mike
Right.

00:02:16.39
Bill
so But um yeah, I mean, the the whole point though is like, you know, all these all these football games over the years that are decided in the last couple of minutes. I mean, that's why you that's why you don't fucking look away, you know?

00:02:27.90
Mike
Right. Okay. Yeah, I know. Uh huh. Yeah. i' Well, we'll talk about it. Yeah. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about your living situation. We'll talk about all kinds of shit, but we're going to start the way we usually start.

00:02:44.93
Bill
You know what, I think we should. And yeah, let's let's do a let's do a reading, Mike. Let's get our minds in the right place.

00:02:50.75
Mike
Well, I want to get it done. Cause you know, uh, in about half an hour or so, I never do this with the TV on, but the TV is on in the room across there. So, uh, yeah, the game will be starting game four.

00:03:02.57
Bill
Oh, no, that's fine. i mean you know the the thing of The thing of it is is the the the way that we do things here anyhow, even if it's distracted a little bit, I think it'll just add too. Because if you're like, holy fuck, what?

00:03:13.04
Mike
Right. Right.

00:03:15.09
Bill
Tell me, tell me, tell me.

00:03:18.86
Mike
Right, so anyway, right, i will I will avert my eyes because there's nothing going on anyway. They just started the pregame. So here we go.

00:03:26.75
Bill
All right.

00:03:26.74
Mike
um I flipped around and God grant me as usual. And um like I said, nothing jumped out at me this week. So I flipped around and here we go, July 22nd.

00:03:39.54
Mike
It's not easy to learn to whistle if there's no one to show you how. Yannick kuzara zack you would think I'd be roll pronounce that better because he's a polish dude I googles ass Anyway, and I'm polish if you didn't know anyway, here we go ah How lucky we are for those who have gone before us They have worked hard to find sobriety and develop it into a program where millions can be touched by it.

00:04:05.95
Mike
They developed the 12 steps and 12 traditions. So we have guides in how to get sober and develop lives of dignity and respect. We also need to see that we're responsible to teach those who need to learn to whistle. We are responsible to serve and reach out to the still suffering addicts around us. We will teach those who we meet to whistle and they will teach still others to whistle. This is our way.

00:04:35.43
Mike
We are to be there for each other and for those who will follow. We pass it on so that we can keep it and allow it to get deeper into our hearts and our souls. Prayer for the day. Higher power, help me to embrace my responsibilities for the still suffering in the world. Help me to use my energy to serve. Today's action, those pesky actions. Today I will reach out to the newest members of my group.

00:05:04.53
Mike
I will call them to see how they were doing and to see if they want to go out for coffee. My treat.

00:05:11.81
Bill
So on on that note, and I remember, I mean, that's one of the readings. I don't know why it makes me always laugh every once in a while, you know the whole whistle thing. you know I think of ah think of Abbott and Costello for some goddamn reason.

00:05:23.62
Bill
right they They talk about that on the radio show.

00:05:23.67
Mike
Ah.

00:05:26.01
Bill
I listen to you trying to whistle with a mouthful of crackers or whatever. but

00:05:29.34
Mike
ah

00:05:29.80
Bill
Again, that, I don't know why it makes me think of that, but um so that's one reading that I do remember and I like it, and there's a lot of good things in there, but so the end part though, and I guess more so from in, again, we've talked about it plenty of times, I don't go to a lot of meetings,

00:05:47.07
Mike
Right.

00:05:47.28
Bill
Um, you know, but you go to your one every single, every single week.

00:05:51.62
Mike
Right.

00:05:51.73
Bill
So not necessarily, I don't think you sit at home. ah Neither do I. And think of who, who's the newest guy that I know that I can call.

00:05:59.73
Mike
Right.

00:05:59.86
Bill
Um, not that I wouldn't, you know, again, if I'm approached, but that's kind of the, I think the level that we're at.

00:06:01.60
Mike
ah huh Right.

00:06:05.77
Bill
And I don't mean that in a sanity, a statistical thing.

00:06:06.66
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:06:07.69
Bill
It just is what it is. um But when when you're at the meeting, when do you reach out to new people? Do you, I don't know, I mean, what that sort of thing, the new guy thing.

00:06:17.90
Mike
Right. I mean, well, you know, um, I'm the treasurer, co-treasurer at my home group. And, uh, so, um, that means that, you know, I do the money and stuff and, um, and we sell, it's a Cleveland thing. We sell raffle tickets. Um, and, uh, so i'm I'm sitting at the ticket table right at the door. So pretty much everybody that comes in, I say hello to, um,

00:06:42.88
Mike
And, you know, yeah, i and I try to, if it's somebody I haven't seen before, um i I make an effort to say hello to them and welcome them to the meeting and stuff. Eh, you know, no, I don't, I don't i do, I never do enough.

00:06:56.90
Mike
um I don't do enough to go out of my way, you know, I don't, you know.

00:06:57.28
Bill
Right.

00:07:01.58
Mike
um Go sit down with them. And I mean, I'm I'm doing shit a'm busy beak of service But you know, I sort of them and um But yeah, I mean, you know, I will ah certainly you know again the approach thing, you know um ah I'm not chasing anybody down.

00:07:08.02
Bill
yeah

00:07:20.26
Mike
This is the way we were taught so when we were brought up in this thing, you know um nobody chased our asses down nobody that wasn't any consequence, you know, they're probably, I mean, I remember being like really early on and, you know, there would be, there would be guys that would, you know, kind of chase us down and, you know, corner us and, you know, Hey, what's going on? How you doing? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, um, I don't know any of those guys anymore.

00:07:46.20
Mike
You know, the guys, the guys that I know, the guys that I still talk to and, and have a relationship with, you know, the guys that came before us.

00:07:46.41
Bill
Right.

00:07:54.81
Mike
Um, those were the guys that we had to go and, and and hunt them down. Um, you know, yeah, you know, Hey, I'm having this, you know, problem.

00:08:00.82
Bill
Right.

00:08:04.06
Mike
I have a question. I have a, whatever, you know, those guys didn't chase us down. And those were the guys that we had to go after and and put forth some effort. to get something.

00:08:15.02
Mike
um Again, that was the way they did. Those guys did that for a fucking reason. I know they did and I appreciated it and I learned that lesson from them. You know, nothing good is going to come out of anything if I don't go after it and put some effort forth.

00:08:30.39
Mike
So, um, yeah, you know, um, yes, I say hello and, and certainly if someone has an interest and somebody has a question and, you know, whatever, I mean, yes, there's been plenty of times where somebody will come up to me and say, Hey man, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:08:30.63
Bill
Right.

00:08:44.07
Mike
I have a question about this, about that. I will absolutely take the time and I will sit down with them and I'll you know I'll get up and go and sit with them for a few minutes and talk to them um but hey guess what doesn't happen as often as it should and that's a damn shame but right yeah you know but when it happens you bet your ass I'm there and I'm putting forth the effort again it's the way we were taught

00:09:00.31
Bill
Right, right.

00:09:07.28
Bill
Well, and yeah, and also I was just gonna say, it's it it is it's the, not just the way that we were taught, but I mean, we found out that, I mean, you know again, just watching these people over the years, how people carry themselves and what we what we literally experienced as being effective, you know,

00:09:23.64
Bill
Um, in, I don't think that anyone like really sat down with us and ever said that, you know, do it this way and don't do it that way. I mean, we, we, again, we were taught basically, but yeah, I get, you know, come to think that maybe they did because they said, you know, I'm not same thing we're talking about.

00:09:36.94
Bill
I'm not chasing anyone's ass, you know?

00:09:37.09
Mike
Right. Yeah, right.

00:09:38.36
Bill
So I guess.

00:09:38.94
Mike
That was said quite a bit.

00:09:40.73
Bill
Yeah, so let me, let me i I'll take that back, forget everything I just said there. um you know But the other thing too is that when, and I was thinking about when when I was in a position of like at the Keating Center when I when i ran that meeting at the Thursday meeting for a year, you know you're I was in a different position where you know I think we were calling up new guys and things like that, you know who's new, this and that.

00:09:52.99
Mike
Hmm.

00:09:56.48
Mike
Right.

00:10:01.58
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:10:02.85
Bill
So you had more of an opportunity sometimes to interact because you were like that, I don't wanna say the center of attention, but kind of. you know So you're you were the more of the focus and same thing that Wisconsin meeting that I ran for three, four years, whatever it was that Saturday meeting, um again, smaller group than a lot of the other ones in Cleveland, but I had more of an opportunity to be directly in front of people.

00:10:10.60
Mike
Sure.

00:10:23.51
Mike
Right.

00:10:23.88
Bill
So I think more people came up to me, but I also had the chance. I knew when there was a new person sitting in the room and usually afterwards, again, because of because I was the one running running the meeting, I did. I felt obligated, not in a bad way, but I thought, this is my place to walk up and at least say hi to that individual.

00:10:35.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:10:38.97
Mike
Sure.

00:10:39.91
Bill
you know But I get it in a normal meeting. God, it's been a long time. ah If somebody has an anniversary or like I get 60 days, 90 days, even when i when I let it in your meeting, um you know a couple of those guys that came up and like, oh yeah, by the way, congratulations you know and whatever.

00:10:47.37
Mike
even Right.

00:10:53.16
Bill
but

00:10:53.69
Mike
Right.

00:10:54.75
Bill
Yeah, just to to reach out I mean I don't think I've, I don't think I've just openly done that, you know, in a long time.

00:10:59.65
Mike
Mm. Right. Yeah. And again, you know, well, clearly when I was doing group at The Rock all those years, you know, yeah, that was, you know, those smaller group one on one, like you said, focal point, all that crap.

00:11:11.70
Mike
And, you know, and guys would come up and talk to me afterwards. And yeah, you know, it was it was more of an opportunity, definitely, um which I don't have anymore, which I miss.

00:11:17.37
Bill
right

00:11:20.53
Mike
But, you know, it is what it is. Things change and that's OK. i

00:11:27.36
Mike
But yeah, yeah, exactly. you know it's It all comes down to we can't drag people off of bar stools. Again, the way we were brought up was you need to put forth some effort because you know it all comes back to to I don't have a lot of fucking time left anymore and I'm not wasting it.

00:11:46.50
Mike
you know i'm not um I'm not putting forth a bunch of fucking effort on somebody that doesn't want it.

00:11:52.83
Bill
Yeah.

00:11:54.23
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:55.09
Bill
Yeah.

00:11:55.14
Bill
i'm not I don't wanna try to fix anyone. I don't wanna try to fix anyone in you know in recovery or alcoholics anonymous.

00:11:57.44
Mike
No.

00:12:01.55
Bill
I don't wanna fix anyone in my personal life.

00:12:03.09
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:12:03.39
Bill
I'll help somebody.

00:12:04.42
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

00:12:04.68
Bill
you know But if I get involved with somebody and they're they're all fucked up, I'm like, well, I don't wanna hang around this person anymore.

00:12:09.55
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:12:10.52
Bill
I i don't wanna be changed. I don't wanna change people. I don't wanna be fixed. you know I mean, the fixing that I have, i know I know who to go to.

00:12:18.40
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:12:18.98
Bill
You're one of them, clearly if not the one.

00:12:19.95
Mike
Right.

00:12:21.40
Bill
you know And I know where to go to, which would be,

00:12:23.99
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:12:24.22
Bill
you know again a meeting or something like that if I really feel like I need to get fixed you know um but I don't you know I want some random fucking person coming up and trying to change me you know I mean because the the thing of it is and and here's the thing and I and maybe this comes off as like you know I don't know I don't know how it comes off but um I feel like I've got my shit together to a certain extent at least to a level

00:12:32.48
Mike
Right.

00:12:46.89
Bill
you know because here's the thing that I know 100% true or is the truth, and you and I talked about it, is that if I didn't, I know you would say something.

00:12:56.61
Mike
Right.

00:12:57.23
Bill
you know And it's kind of like, I don't have to worry so much anymore about wondering if I don't have my shit together. If I i told you some story, I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, I did this, and you'd be like, what the fuck? What's what's wrong with you?

00:13:07.35
Mike
Right.

00:13:08.41
Bill
you know Which, okay, let's I'm not gonna tell you circumstances openly here, but,

00:13:10.63
Mike
I have.

00:13:14.28
Bill
Mike has said those words to me before um and you know clearly in sobriety because he did not know me when I was drinking you know so I've had my moments and you know but if I if I have any question I go to you and and all that stuff but the the thing with is they have like you say you know chasing people down and trying to I don't know spend a lot of time and effort um I don't know if people want this thing all I gotta do is hang around for a minute and you know just watch people and if they can't see the changes in people

00:13:20.45
Mike
Right. Right.

00:13:37.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:13:43.39
Bill
even listening to the stories and then seeing what individuals are like now and that sort of thing, um I don't know what else to tell somebody, you know?

00:13:50.59
Mike
Right. Yeah. I mean, the light bulb has to want to change.

00:13:56.48
Bill
ah How many people does it change to change the light bulb? Well, it has to change or it has to want to change first.

00:14:02.11
Mike
As to want to change first.

00:14:02.87
Bill
yeah

00:14:03.23
Mike
Exactly. Yeah. You know, right.

00:14:05.54
Bill
that's That's funny. I like that. i I don't know that I've ever heard you or anyone else say that. That made that actually that humored me. Oh, so real quick with the raffle, and I completely, completely forgot to tell you when we left that meeting that I let out.

00:14:18.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:19.26
Bill
um I won that raffle.

00:14:21.29
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:22.30
Bill
It was the like the there was two whatever's at work. I don't remember what the split was in the money, but I mean I bought like two strands of tickets and then you gave me one and um one of them was a winning ticket.

00:14:27.42
Mike
yeah yeah

00:14:31.92
Bill
I'm like, i I'm not going to win again. I just won the night before I'm like somebody else needs the money more than me.

00:14:34.79
Mike
Uh-huh. Oh.

00:14:37.38
Bill
um So I let it go and. The guy that won it had told some new guy next to him, hey, if I win, I'm going to give you the money.

00:14:45.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:45.48
Bill
That's where it ended up going. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, Jesus Christ, man, that's that's what I couldn't add.

00:14:46.62
Mike
Oh, that's cool.

00:14:50.31
Bill
I couldn't have, I couldn't have made that happen. yeah yeah You know, I mean, yeah.

00:14:55.38
Mike
That's cool. Right. I mean, you know, I mean, ah clearly I play every week, I throw my buck in or my buck, but my buck in each basket, easy for me to say.

00:15:03.40
Bill
Right.

00:15:04.50
Mike
And um yeah, you know, and when I win, and this is kind of past couple of years, we've sort of started doing it. um We give it back and we separate those monies.

00:15:17.10
Mike
And at the end of the year, um we give all of that money to central office when they have their fundraiser in the spring.

00:15:23.69
Bill
Oh, nice.

00:15:23.95
Mike
So that's how we, yeah.

00:15:24.21
Bill
Okay.

00:15:25.03
Mike
So that's how we do that. So yeah, the home group members and stuff, and there are a couple other people that hang out there. You know, it's, if my ticket hits, I i go go to central office and we move along.

00:15:36.84
Bill
Okay, cool.

00:15:37.45
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:38.29
Bill
Yeah, it just, I mean, literally I was sitting up there and I looked and I'm like, fuck it. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna claim this one.

00:15:41.93
Mike
Right.

00:15:42.61
Bill
There's gotta be somebody else.

00:15:43.23
Mike
he

00:15:43.45
Bill
And then, then yeah, the, the, whoever the guy was, I think it was a guy, the guy, I don't remember who it was now. I was thinking it was a guy that was telling us, he hadn't been to a meeting for a while and he was talking back and forth.

00:15:52.03
Mike
Hmm.

00:15:53.21
Bill
Maybe the one that said that he, that he did a group with us or whatever, or yeah, which neither one of us remember the guy.

00:15:53.19
Mike
Oh yeah.

00:15:56.31
Mike
But yeah. her hair Right.

00:16:00.75
Bill
But um yeah whoever it was that won, they're like, yeah, I told the new guy next to me, if I win it, I'm going to give him the money. And I was like, OK, I couldn't have planned any better.

00:16:05.95
Mike
Hmm.

00:16:07.89
Bill
And we got by the time we got in the car, I completely fucking forgot.

00:16:07.90
Mike
Right.

00:16:10.17
Bill
And I thought about it when we were recording, I think, last week or the week before. And I'm like, I got i got to tell you about that. And that just reminded me again when you said raffles. So yeah, like I said, I couldn't have i couldn't have planned that any better.

00:16:20.51
Mike
Raffle.

00:16:20.65
Bill
But raffle.

00:16:22.34
Mike
performance

00:16:23.56
Bill
Did you win? No, oh, everyone doing the oohs and the ahhs. That used to be a big Stella Maris thing but at that at the old meeting. All right, so a couple of things that I wrote down with that, no one to show, or yeah, no one to show you how, developing the program. These are all obviously people coming before us, developing dignity and respect. So the thing of it is, the first thing, you know as far as like no one to show you how, I mean, think about that.

00:16:48.50
Bill
um I'm not, I'm not unintelligent, but I'm not really a book learner, you know, which is kind of funny because there's a book that's rather large in this, in this whole program of ours.

00:16:56.63
Mike
Mm hmm. Yes.

00:16:59.00
Bill
um But sitting down and just reading the book, um I don't, I don't think would have, you know, clicked for me, you know, that the Jim Benny tapes and, you know, being in a big book meetings and reading up with other people.

00:17:05.66
Mike
Right.

00:17:08.27
Mike
Hmm.

00:17:11.08
Bill
um you know And having people, like again, literally show us how to go through these things.

00:17:15.13
Mike
Right.

00:17:15.30
Bill
um i Again, not that I i don't i don't know, and I'm glad I didn't have to find out if I could have just sat down and took a class, quote unquote.

00:17:21.91
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:23.75
Bill
I'm not as, how to get involved in Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm just, I'm glad I didn't have to do that, but um how great that we had people to show us, right? And the people that showed us.

00:17:32.95
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Right. I mean, you know, um ah yeah, I did read the book. long before I got sober. um You know, a couple times.

00:17:43.84
Mike
um Right, but I was reading the book with my twisted brain. So, you know, i I need somebody with a clear head who has some knowledge of how this actually works.

00:17:55.30
Mike
how do What do we say in the meetings? Working knowledge of the steps.

00:17:58.58
Bill
Right.

00:17:58.59
Mike
You know, that's important. Just not knowledge of the steps. I had knowledge of the steps. I didn't have working knowledge of the steps. You know, i needed I needed practical, I needed to fucking work them. Taking some action, hmm. So, right.

00:18:15.40
Mike
Yeah. Again, you know, just reading the instructions, that's great. But if I'm reading them with a ah fucked up perspective, which how else can I read it on my own, you know, right.

00:18:25.45
Bill
Right.

00:18:25.68
Mike
We need those. We need that ah other person, other people who have, who who walked into this with a fucked up head like ours and and changed that thinking.

00:18:37.05
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:37.29
Bill
Right. Yeah, their head their heads are a little bit less fucked up these days, hopefully.

00:18:42.22
Mike
Right.

00:18:42.62
Bill
If they're doing it right, it is. But um but yeah, I mean, obviously those that came before us, I wrote down, obviously developed the program, ah We Gain Dignity and Respect.

00:18:43.88
Mike
right

00:18:50.80
Bill
And you know, it's said the other thing, the next thing that I wrote down was responsibility to teach, you know. And that comes back to the you know the hand of AA, right? you know We always have to, even if everything that we just talked about, maybe if we're not stepping up at a meeting and this and that and saying, oh, I'm going to help you, blah, blah, blah.

00:18:59.52
Mike
Right.

00:19:05.00
Mike
Right.

00:19:08.39
Bill
um But being available, and number one, being available to, agreeable to, and having the, again, working knowledge of the steps to be able to teach somebody how to go through this thing rather than just throwing a book at them and saying, yeah, read this and you know call me next week.

00:19:18.83
Mike
right

00:19:22.96
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:19:25.69
Bill
but um But yeah, I mean, it is it's ah and it is a responsibility, right? I mean, I don't think a really bad one, but it is.

00:19:29.96
Mike
Oh yeah. No, no, not at all. I mean, you know it talk about fucked up. Um, yes, I have responsibilities today and I'm glad. I mean, I spent what decades of my life trying not to be responsible.

00:19:44.43
Mike
Um, you know, and it turns out that having these responsibilities is pretty goddamn great.

00:19:49.71
Bill
Right.

00:19:49.92
Mike
You know, I don't always, I'm not always completely happy with them, but you know, having to have those responsibilities, but for But I know the results of being responsible today and that I definitely fucking want.

00:20:01.83
Mike
So, you know, I guess I'll deal with the the downside of being responsible so I could get the upside. Yes.

00:20:10.93
Bill
Right.

00:20:12.04
Mike
Balance. i Did someone say balance?

00:20:15.89
Bill
Balance anyone, balance?

00:20:17.22
Mike
since

00:20:18.67
Bill
And yeah, you're you're right. I mean, sometimes ah and we we joke about it all the time. you know the um you know We wanted to be adults so bad, now fucking look at us, right? you know i mean And you know we didn't have to be, really didn't have to be adults until we were in our 40s, which is, I don't know, sort of mean maybe a gift?

00:20:31.25
Mike
Right?

00:20:35.13
Bill
Probably not, probably not.

00:20:36.14
Mike
No, probably not.

00:20:38.63
Bill
No, it's ah it's not a gift at all. that was I couldn't even say that with a straight face. but um But yeah, I mean having that, the the responsibility, and you know but part of me thinking back, there well clearly before I got sober, but you know realizing that you're, I mean, yeah think about it from, okay, responsible for a child, responsible for a relationship.

00:20:58.72
Bill
And then, you know, with this whole thing, I mean, then we become literally, and probably, literally could be responsible for somebody's, not that we're going to save a life, you know, but, you know, we, they're, they're coming to us to say, okay, help me, you know, and ah realizing that you have to be able to, you got to know what the fuck you're talking about, you know, or you can, you can fuck somebody up, you know.

00:21:08.19
Mike
Right. Right.

00:21:17.87
Mike
right Yeah, right. Well, there's a reason you don't start doing that until after you've worked the first 11 steps. That's the 12 step, the last one, yeah right?

00:21:29.44
Bill
Right? Yeah.

00:21:31.98
Mike
You know, I mean, as much as great, you know, we want to take the first step and then the 12 step, ah but there's a couple of steps in between there.

00:21:32.20
Bill
Yeah.

00:21:39.52
Mike
We need to work on before we get to that.

00:21:43.00
Bill
Yeah, get your get get your own fucked up thoughts and your own fucked up head in order before you try to you know at least assist somebody in unfucking their head.

00:21:49.72
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. I'm going to help you unfuck your head.

00:21:57.46
Bill
Next time I have an opportunity, whatever that happens, I think I'm going to do that. Sit down with some fucking brand new shaky dude and be like, okay, we're we're ready. ah I'm ready to un-fuck your head and just see what the dude says.

00:22:12.11
Bill
That probably would be the right thing to say, but it, I make me laugh, I think, you know.

00:22:13.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:16.68
Mike
right? Hell yeah. I mean, I would have appreciated it. Fucking, you know, two weeks or whatever. I'm going to help you un-fuck your head. Thank you.

00:22:26.41
Bill
Yeah, see, but now in me on the other hand, I would have not liked that in two weeks because I was not in i was not in a good place at that point.

00:22:30.65
Mike
a

00:22:32.88
Bill
Oh, so back to the dudes who used to, in and I don't remember who they were in particular, but I remember people doing that coming up and you know it's like all of a sudden you're <unk>re standing there and this dude's in your face again.

00:22:43.12
Bill
It's like, holy shit, where'd you come from? you know And then like, hey, how you doing? What's going on? Blah, blah, blah, going to meetings, going to this?

00:22:47.78
Mike
right

00:22:48.64
Bill
i'm like Get away from me. you mean In my head, I'm like, you make me really fucking uncomfortable. Go away.

00:22:53.66
Mike
aha

00:22:54.53
Bill
you know And I don't know why, probably just because, i mean you know I mean, again, you see some, I was in no mood, again, to have my head unfucked.

00:23:02.25
Mike
sir

00:23:03.40
Bill
So I certainly didn't want some fucking happy, joyous, and free motherfucker in front of me just going, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la look at me.

00:23:03.96
Mike
Right. hey Right.

00:23:11.48
Bill
yeah You know, in...

00:23:11.66
Mike
Right. Right. And I just, I just got done spending the last 30 years trying to make myself uncomfortable or make myself comfortable. Why are you fucking trying to make me uncomfortable?

00:23:21.53
Bill
Right. And in no offense to people who have like six and nine months, but that's probably what those, some of those dudes were. They were, you know, probably a year, maybe a year sober and just, you know, being, being the guy.

00:23:27.32
Mike
Oh yeah.

00:23:30.60
Bill
And I'm like, okay, that's cool.

00:23:31.14
Mike
Right.

00:23:32.45
Bill
You know, but again, all the, all the people at, you know, um who do you know specifically, you know, walking down, you walk down into that room and and just for everyone else, it's a small, it's, it's like an oversized, it's probably,

00:23:37.26
Mike
Hmm.

00:23:45.92
Bill
I don't know, whatever your normal size bedroom is, not yours, Mike, because you got a room that's like half your house, literally.

00:23:48.93
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

00:23:52.50
Bill
But, um you know, take any normal bedroom, it's probably the size of three bedrooms, maybe two and a half, you know?

00:23:52.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:57.34
Mike
Right.

00:23:58.58
Bill
Small building in a church basement, but when you walk down, you don't feel, I never felt stifled down there, I've never felt stuffy, um but there was a, there literally was these guys that sit that sat in the back, which is all of the, you know, quote unquote old timers, and these guys that we're talking about,

00:23:58.60
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:13.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:15.46
Bill
um And it was just it was just calm and comforting. you know And they walked in, you you took a right, and you walked down that little aisle and took a left and shook hands with everyone that was sitting there.

00:24:19.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:25.57
Bill
And most of them, not all of them, but probably 70, 80% of them knew your name.

00:24:30.86
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:31.24
Bill
you know Hey, how you doing, especially Ray, you know the guy that was sober for 100 years.

00:24:33.07
Mike
Sure.

00:24:35.62
Mike
Yeah, exactly. He was sober before Bill W.

00:24:39.98
Bill
yeah Yeah, I mean, literally, when he passed, it was what, 50, 55, something like that, 50 something, you know?

00:24:43.01
Mike
Pretty close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 55, 56, something crazy like that.

00:24:49.43
Bill
Yeah, I mean, the the yeah, the dude was, he it was, at the time when we got sober, I mean, well, you whatever, I mean, he had been sober longer than, or as long as we had been alive, you know, at the time when we were, that we were there, yeah, it was just, it was crazy, you know, when you, when you think about it that way.

00:24:57.13
Mike
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, longer.

00:25:02.05
Mike
Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, right. He knew sister Ignacio.

00:25:05.38
Bill
you right

00:25:05.77
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:06.23
Bill
Right. And, and the nicest fucking guy that most, most down to earth guy and, um, and yeah, always when I walk in, he's like, Hey, Billy, how you doing?

00:25:08.99
Mike
Oh, of course.

00:25:13.82
Bill
You know, good to see you. How how are things?

00:25:14.77
Mike
ah fix could

00:25:15.58
Bill
And he'd ever be like, you know, go to meetings. Are you doing this? Are you doing that?

00:25:18.16
Mike
No, no, of course not.

00:25:18.38
Bill
And he's just like, Hey, how you doing? You know, just, he'd see you every week.

00:25:19.84
Mike
Right.

00:25:21.86
Bill
And he knew, you know, he, he knew what he knew.

00:25:22.81
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:25:24.28
Bill
But um yeah, I don't know. Just ah once again, you know getting back to the whole responsibility thing. Responsibility is, that yeah, it can suck. But um man, it's ah it's a gratifying responsibility you have, I guess, would be a great way to put it, right?

00:25:36.10
Mike
Mm hmm. Absolutely.

00:25:39.01
Bill
Yeah, so that was a bike. Kudos to you, man. That was a good one.

00:25:42.44
Mike
yeah here and Nothing to do with me, man.

00:25:43.49
Bill
ah for

00:25:45.97
Bill
I know.

00:25:46.31
Mike
None of that shit came out of my head.

00:25:46.57
Bill
Yeah, yeah but you you had to pick it, though. so you know i mean

00:25:52.30
Mike
Scabs in my nose, and my ass, and I pick a lot of things.

00:25:56.04
Bill
Right. Yeah. You know, okay. Here's this complete side note. So I was watching, um, not watching, but flipping through Instagram and, uh, it makes me laugh all the time. I see some of these, again, all these podcasts that do video and I have nothing against people who do video, but, um, the only thing I'm going to say is you look really fucking uncomfortable and you look stupid, you know?

00:26:09.57
Mike
Hmm.

00:26:14.52
Bill
because none of you know what to do while you're sitting there on video, and I understand that.

00:26:17.43
Mike
Right. Yeah, sure.

00:26:20.13
Bill
I'm on umm on zoom meeting Zoom meetings at minimum of once, if not twice a week, and it's a whole group of people, so it's less, obviously, I don't know, intrusive, you know, because there's more people on there.

00:26:26.39
Mike
Right. right

00:26:30.79
Bill
But even for something like that, you know, for work, I mean, it's a casual, I mean, it's not a big deal, you know, but when you're sitting there interviewing somebody, you got in the, you know, the host, if there's two of them, you know, they got their, you know, they they're kind of resting their head on their chin, or they're sitting there with their arms crossed, you know, head tilted a little bit to the left or right, nodding, you know, while the person's talking. And I mean, it's it's like this three, the the three panel, I'm like, oh my God, you guys look so fucking uncomfortable. But what made me think about it, here's what I wanna do.

00:27:00.11
Bill
just to fuck around I want you and I to take like three four minutes one day and just video and just just not even say anything just sit there and just stare at each other and pretend like and then that we're just gonna I'm just gonna post it and say this is what all you people fucking look like and I um'm I'm gonna

00:27:05.10
Mike
Oh, great.

00:27:15.80
Mike
All right. all Okay. that So I'm down for that.

00:27:18.69
Bill
yeah

00:27:18.79
Mike
That's fine.

00:27:19.78
Bill
that's That's my end point, because i want I want us to pretend like we're picking our noses. I plan on getting up and picking my ass. You know, anything like that, pretending like you're not on camera.

00:27:25.66
Mike
oh

00:27:27.79
Bill
I don't even know what just, people look so fucking uncomfortable. And the only, I don't even know.

00:27:31.39
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:33.68
Bill
I don't even know how, this one guy that that has a podcast, what he does as promos, whatever production he does with it, he'll have, for the video, he'll have the guests come up on the video, and then when he's talking, it'll pan into him.

00:27:48.01
Bill
So it's just one person, so it doesn't look so stupid, you know? um But I mean, when you got both people or a three people, I just didn't look so fucking, everyone looks uncomfortable. I just don't, I don't see the point, you know?

00:27:57.65
Mike
Right. I... Right. Well, I certainly don't look at anything like that. You know, the podcast, I listened to podcasts. That's yeah. I don't watch video, right?

00:28:09.06
Bill
Right.

00:28:09.12
Mike
I don't watch video of radio shows. I don't, I mean, they're all doing it now. And, you know, it's what the one I listened to here in Cleveland now a cock show. um Yeah. I mean, he talks all the time.

00:28:20.01
Mike
He's like, he's the guy, the guy that runs the videos. is He's the co-host and um he sometimes isn't there. He's a working comedian. So sometimes he's out of town or whatever and um Yeah, he's like Alan's like, you know fuck man. I'm glad Bill's not here today man. No no video. i'm I'm so happy

00:28:39.88
Bill
Yeah, in their the morning show that I listen to, they'll do it every once in a while when they have a guest, which is, they used to have more more people actually in the studio, but even with that sometimes, they'll just, they'll take pictures of when the individual, there'll be some of local, like a sports pass here, or one of the coaches or one of the teams or something like that, or, um you know, they like Frank Caliendo, they know him really well.

00:28:56.56
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:29:00.64
Mike
Right.

00:29:01.17
Bill
Do you know Frank Caliendo, right?

00:29:02.48
Mike
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

00:29:03.59
Bill
Yeah, he grew up in Racine so he's known the way that this is kind of funny funny backstory that not a lot of people would know unless you were in Milwaukee.

00:29:05.30
Mike
Right.

00:29:11.47
Bill
um He, it was a school project because he's a few years younger. He might be our age where Bob and Brian then I listened to her like in their early to mid 60s.

00:29:19.90
Mike
Uh huh.

00:29:20.69
Bill
So I think it was a school project that Frank came in and he was going to he was writing like ah either doing an interview or writing some paper about something, some broadcasting thing. So that's how we met them years ago. And then they allow two comedians only on the show, unless it unless it's some you know famous person that wore whatever. So it's Frank Coliendo and this guy, Mike Toomey, that's out of Chicago. And they've known they've known Mike for years too, but Frank frank will come in, Frank will come in, he'll just walk in.

00:29:48.03
Bill
He's like, oh, Frank's in town for a show or whatever. Then they'll do pictures and whatever. But yeah, that's how that's how he they met him you know just years ago. Just some fucking high school project.

00:29:58.08
Mike
if Right.

00:29:59.20
Bill
But yeah, even with that, on ah on a regular basis, they don't they don't do video, I don't think. They'll do, again, pictures and stuff. I don't know. Just my point with that, I know.

00:30:05.55
Mike
Yeah, radio guys. Right. i yeah Exactly. i I like the audio medium. I always have. I always will. Yes. That's why we do. That's why I, you know, again, we did that one fucking video thing and I was just like, oh God, this sucks.

00:30:20.48
Mike
Yeah. um You know, whatever. I'm, you know, a little vain. I don't mind people looking at me clearly. I spent lots of years on stages and shit and whatever, but no, not for this.

00:30:30.03
Bill
Right.

00:30:32.00
Mike
It's audio. That's what this is.

00:30:33.29
Bill
Right.

00:30:33.87
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:34.93
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, and that and that's the thing the um the the fact that we I don't regret trying it because we got to see that we didn't but we didn't like it, you know.

00:30:41.97
Mike
Right.

00:30:43.88
Bill
And in same same thing too, watching it back, um you know i'm just I was focusing on, you know I looked uncomfortable and i'm not I'm not uncomfortable to be in front of video or anything like that.

00:30:49.08
Mike
Right.

00:30:54.51
Mike
right

00:30:54.94
Bill
um I don't think the, it didn't come across in our voices or anything like that, like we were nervous, but it just it was just, it was fucking pointless.

00:30:59.98
Mike
yeah great Right.

00:31:02.41
Bill
you know There was was nothing that came, no good that came out of it at all.

00:31:09.30
Bill
I mean, okay, if we, do we, will we do video if we get like a bunch of hot, like random hot chicks on here or something? I don't know. I'm just, then we do video.

00:31:17.55
Mike
Do it.

00:31:19.32
Bill
i

00:31:20.66
Mike
God.

00:31:22.63
Bill
Just fuck it around.

00:31:23.11
Mike
and All right.

00:31:23.77
Bill
i can't I can't think of a reason why we why we do, I can't think of a reason.

00:31:25.84
Mike
Now.

00:31:28.09
Bill
But you know hey, if one comes up where we're both like, yeah, this would make sense to do it, we have the capability. That's all that fucking matters.

00:31:33.28
Mike
Sure.

00:31:34.14
Bill
Oh wait, in this episode, along with all of our episodes now, are brought to you by Senncaster.

00:31:34.49
Mike
Right.

00:31:39.58
Mike
Yes.

00:31:41.93
Bill
So cool, they don't need the E, it's just Senncaster.

00:31:46.94
Bill
yeah But anyhow, so anything more with the with the reading or at all good?

00:31:51.09
Mike
Yeah, I think we're good. consider We stopped talking about it about 20 minutes ago.

00:31:52.52
Bill
Okay.

00:31:55.63
Bill
I know, I guess like I got on a fucking tangent, but I don't know.

00:31:58.54
Mike
We did.

00:31:59.04
Bill
It is it is so funny, i listened I was listening to um sober friends, our buddy Matt.

00:32:03.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:32:05.00
Bill
And him and this guy Steve do it most of the time now. And ah Steve's the one that says it all the time.

00:32:08.22
Mike
Right.

00:32:09.71
Bill
He's like, because hi he goes, I'm gonna get off topic here for a second. They announced what they're gonna get off topic. and He's like he goes I don't want to get off to topic too much I I love there. I love listening to them they got great topics.

00:32:20.66
Bill
I steal some other ideas Those are some of the ideas I come up with you know for this um But it just cracks me I laugh in the car usually it's in the car I laugh every fucking time when they're like who we don't want to get too far off a topic I'm like, what does that even mean?

00:32:22.20
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:32:32.90
Bill
you nothing Nothing's nothing's off limits here.

00:32:36.84
Mike
Well, when there is no topic, everything is a topic, something.

00:32:37.36
Bill
God damn it and

00:32:41.05
Bill
Right. Fucking life is a topic, right?

00:32:43.02
Mike
Uh huh.

00:32:44.49
Bill
All right. So, um, do we got, you want to talk about, uh, let's, let's talk about el Al's dad.

00:32:50.74
Mike
All right.

00:32:51.12
Bill
And, um, I mean, you, you know more, a little bit more about that, I think, than, than I do, but, um, okay.

00:32:54.96
Mike
Well, I've actually, I knew LD before I knew L.

00:32:59.45
Bill
So go ahead.

00:33:00.87
Mike
Yeah, well, I'm a sober dude, man.

00:33:01.05
Bill
Give us some background.

00:33:04.46
Mike
you know um I mean, he's ah he's a good friend of ours, dad. He spent in the program. He was in the program. He graduated um a long time.

00:33:15.16
Mike
He had over 20 years, um probably 30 shit. I don't know, long goddamn time. I know that. um Yeah, I know him. Well, he used to go to, he was ah he went to puritas for a long time.

00:33:27.81
Mike
That's where I first met him.

00:33:29.26
Bill
Really?

00:33:29.34
Mike
And he was up friends with Mag.

00:33:29.85
Bill
Hmm.

00:33:32.04
Mike
He's good friends with Mag, who was a father of another friend of ours, Dominic, who's no longer with us. um Dominic was with us at the Keating Center.

00:33:42.19
Bill
Right.

00:33:43.02
Mike
Right. So yeah, Mag and L.T. hung out. um They would go to purists all the time. And then um I knew him from the 12 and 12 that I'd go to all the time. um

00:33:52.56
Bill
Oh shit really?

00:33:53.62
Mike
Oh yeah. Yeah. He was a regular at that meeting too.

00:33:54.60
Bill
Okay.

00:33:56.10
Mike
So I mean, I, you know, I hung out with the dude, knew him. Um, yeah, you know, he's old, uh, Puerto Rican biker, um, hardcore motherfucker, just like Alice, you know, they were, God, they, I have stories, um, that aren't mine to tell, but, um, yeah, you know, just ah a really good dude helped a lot of people was around for a long time.

00:34:06.90
Bill
Right.

00:34:16.70
Mike
Um, and, um, you know, he's been sick for a while. I mean, he was getting old and, and, You know, yeah, we all did damage to ourselves. I think we were talking about that last week. um

00:34:26.17
Bill
Right.

00:34:26.92
Mike
you know So yeah, he passed away this week and um wasn't unexpected, but yeah, rock fucking drag. um

00:34:38.98
Mike
but um god um Where the hell was it? Did you read Mara's comic? Because our friend Mara, who is on the show, um she she works in hospice now.

00:34:46.27
Bill
Right.

00:34:49.05
Mike
She has for a year, year and a half, something like that. She's been doing that. Um, and she helped him. He was, uh, yeah. And, and what the hell, man?

00:34:59.89
Mike
He was, uh, was that in the group chat that we were all doing that Mara told the story?

00:35:05.66
Bill
Yeah, yeah, she. Yep. Yeah, exactly.

00:35:08.46
Mike
Yeah. Hang on.

00:35:08.90
Bill
Yep.

00:35:09.38
Mike
So I'm trying to find it. Um, Yeah.

00:35:11.48
Bill
And, and while you're, while you're looking for that too, and then the, cause my, my question through this conversation at some point was going to be, you know, I, I, I had to have been as Dan at some point. Cause when you said if he was a friend of mags, it was at the 12 and 12.

00:35:23.40
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:23.69
Bill
And I remember when mag used to go to puritans cause I go there every once in a while.

00:35:27.01
Mike
Right.

00:35:27.14
Bill
I, the thing that is like, like I didn't,

00:35:27.29
Mike
Oh yeah. LD used to hang out with at at the table with all those guys. Yeah.

00:35:31.72
Bill
I'm sure. yeah And I didn't see the open. I'd have to look at the over to see if I recognize them. But because right off the top of my head, I mean, I wouldn't have it.

00:35:36.94
Mike
Right.

00:35:40.23
Bill
I have no vision of him. But again, you you started off with the fact that he's, you know, obviously and the dad of one of our one of our good friends who's been sober for, you know, God, God knows how long it has been sober for four fucking ever.

00:35:47.28
Mike
Uh, he just had, yeah, he just had 28 years.

00:35:51.73
Bill
Right.

00:35:54.49
Bill
Alden.

00:35:55.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:55.79
Bill
Oh, Jesus. So his dad had to have did his dad get sober after or before?

00:35:56.53
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:00.03
Mike
Uh, real close around. I shit, you know, I'm not sure I should know that. And, uh, and, um, um, yeah, I can't bring it up for sure.

00:36:10.53
Bill
Right.

00:36:10.55
Mike
I, I think, I think, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure he got sober before Al. So yeah.

00:36:17.46
Bill
Yeah, but still, it was, ah again, i'm and I'm sure that, because the service is tomorrow, correct?

00:36:23.12
Mike
Yes. No, uh, Sunday.

00:36:23.98
Bill
Okay. Oh, okay, I gotcha, I gotcha.

00:36:25.88
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Chris and I will be there, definitely.

00:36:31.30
Bill
Yeah, that's cool.

00:36:31.28
Mike
um Yeah, anyway, I found Mara's comment. um My hospice team and I had the honor of taking care of LD. I just wanted to say that he had zero interest in a long, drawn out death.

00:36:43.77
Mike
He flirted with our ladies until the end and called his primary male nurse the Grim Reaper.

00:36:46.54
Bill
Yeah.

00:36:49.20
Bill
Yeah.

00:36:49.44
Mike
We suspected he threw a clot yesterday because he was in the car with Alfonso, carrying on a regular conversation and basically passed out and died. Alfonso carried him upstairs. We got there about a half hour later, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He was still going to meetings, going out to breakfast with his family. He died exactly how he wanted to quickly and without frills and at home and not one of those damn hospitals. That was a quote at the end.

00:37:15.75
Bill
Right. Well, you know, and and I remembered that that's the line that that I remembered, you know, and i and I read that and it was, um I don't know, it's a part of me that was, and it's, and ah fuck it, it's not a weird thing to say, it was really comforting to to read all of that, um but specifically that that line, yeah you know, he died exactly how he wanted to, you know, um not one of those damn hospitals with no frills and and that sort of thing. And I'm like, God, what,

00:37:42.54
Bill
I mean, what the fuck more can we ask for? And I mean, we we collectively that you and I joked about it, you know, if both of us die sober, it's cool.

00:37:45.75
Mike
Not a damn thing.

00:37:52.34
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:37:53.28
Bill
You know, if either one of us drinks ourselves to death, we're going to do vile things to each other, you know, to each other's graves or ashes or whatever.

00:37:58.36
Mike
Uh huh. Uh huh.

00:37:59.71
Bill
And um you know, but, but, you know, I mean, to to live a new life, because we don't want the old one, but to have a chance to live a new life, whether it's three years or 30 years or whatever.

00:38:06.87
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:38:11.53
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:38:11.91
Bill
um And then basically, to ted go out on your own terms like that, I mean, what a fucking gift.

00:38:18.94
Mike
Yep. Yep.

00:38:20.45
Bill
You know, I mean, it is, it's just great, just great, you know?

00:38:22.96
Mike
Yeah. Flirt with the ladies and, you know, end up just, uh, kind of going to sleep in the car ride with your kid. Yeah. Pretty cool.

00:38:29.91
Bill
Right, right. Yeah, well, here's the thing. um i I don't know, I mean, if i if I have the ability, if I can speak and see, I don't think that I'm ever gonna stop flirting with women, so.

00:38:39.21
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. No, I don't need my vision for that.

00:38:43.94
Bill
Yeah, yeah that's that's a good point, that's a good point.

00:38:46.74
Mike
Right. I mean, you've seen you've seen Ray, right? The movie about Ray Charles, you know, he he grabbed the wrists if they were nice and thin and supple.

00:38:51.09
Bill
Oh yeah, yeah.

00:38:56.42
Mike
Yeah, that's how we I was like that in that movie. He grabbed the wrists and feel it. Yeah, you're all right.

00:39:03.79
Bill
yeah hey how are you

00:39:05.80
Mike
Right. Exactly. Big old chubby, nasty wrist. that I don't think so.

00:39:11.29
Bill
but But yeah, it just, it's, I don't know. It's it just, it's the, we talk about it all the time, the difference in, once again, not that it's not, you know, it's not sad, you know, that it's not sad to have, especially a parent die.

00:39:24.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:25.44
Bill
And, you know, we had, I mean, ah coming up, I mean, what day is it today?

00:39:26.09
Mike
Sure.

00:39:28.48
Bill
You know, in less than what, 12 days from now, you know, um it'll be two years since since mom died, um which is fucking mind blowing to me.

00:39:31.46
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Hm. I know.

00:39:37.24
Bill
Um, you know, I mean, uh, Christ, that just a lot, a lot's happened, you know, good things in the last couple of years at fucking time, you know, but, um, you don't know, she wasn't, she wasn't one of us or anything like that, but same deal. It's apparent, but you know, when, when we have had people like us sober individuals that pass away even if it's you know from some horrible fucking disease and they're taken too young or whatever the case is there's such a huge difference between that and walking into one of those goddamn funerals and somebody OD'd or you know drank themselves to death or you know fuck any of that shit just there were there's one that's like wow look at this and what a fucking waste you know and I don't mean that in a bad way but you know it is what it is you know

00:39:59.35
Mike
Alright.

00:40:06.07
Mike
Mm. Yeah. Yep.

00:40:16.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:19.95
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Right. I mean, God knows I've been to both of those funerals. Um, you know, I mean, we were talking about Ray, I went to his funeral.

00:40:25.92
Bill
right

00:40:28.55
Mike
That was fucking great, man. Um, that was, that was a wonderful service and and a celebration of his life. And then, you know, um, what the fucking Rebecca's funeral.

00:40:39.07
Mike
That was, that was grim. I couldn't even go up and look at her in the, in the box, man, you know, and that shit doesn't bother me, but she was just such a wonderful person and I couldn't fucking see her laying there dead, you know, for no goddamn reason other than she fucking stopped.

00:40:52.06
Bill
Right. Right.

00:40:56.72
Bill
Right.

00:40:57.32
Mike
Yep.

00:40:58.62
Bill
Yeah, and you know, when my, when my sponsor passed away, and I mean, I was, you know, a couple of years sober at the time, two and a half when he passed away.

00:41:05.17
Mike
Right.

00:41:06.29
Bill
um You know, it was weird, I was thinking back on that, that was Uncle John passed. You know, the whole Uncle John thing happened only a few weeks before Bill died, you know, and again, a couple of extremes on there.

00:41:13.29
Mike
the Right.

00:41:17.73
Bill
But my my so My sponsor's funeral, I mean, I couldn't literally, I had to go fuck park in a little strip mall parking lot and walk into my dress shoes through the fucking snow trying to get into this.

00:41:28.69
Bill
but I couldn't even get i couldn't get into the church, the whole lobby area, big fucking church, you know?

00:41:30.91
Mike
Right.

00:41:33.29
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:41:33.88
Bill
And everyone, i not up I'm sure maybe somebody was crying, but I mean, I didn't see it, you know?

00:41:37.25
Mike
Hmm. Right.

00:41:39.50
Bill
And I think I was looking for that. I think that was the first that was the first sober person's funeral I had been to, I think.

00:41:45.26
Mike
Right. First graduation party.

00:41:47.95
Bill
Yeah, I think so. um We've been, ah Marty dragged us to a bunch of the other ones, you know, and I didn't i don't want to do that shit, but um I get it.

00:41:49.05
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:41:52.46
Mike
hell Yeah. Nope.

00:41:56.11
Bill
I understood it, you know. I mean, the fact that we're talking about it literally 14 and a half years later, you know, and oh, by the way, today, I can now officially say I've been sober for 14 and a half years.

00:42:00.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:07.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:09.19
Bill
yeah All the reason I know is because my my sobriety counter evened up today. It's whatever 100 some months and you know, the actual 14.5 and I'm like, I'm like, oh, fuck it.

00:42:13.72
Mike
ah

00:42:17.01
Mike
Right. Yup. Oh yeah.

00:42:18.86
Bill
I'm not front.

00:42:18.98
Mike
Today is the 18th.

00:42:20.78
Bill
I'm like, I'm not fronting anymore. I guess I, you know, now I can say I can really save 14 and a half and be true.

00:42:26.40
Mike
Yeah. Well, I gotta wait till Tuesday. God damn it.

00:42:30.87
Bill
Don't fucking fronts motherfucker.

00:42:32.85
Mike
hu he

00:42:35.36
Bill
But um yeah, I just, ah I don't know. i ah Al, I wish him, you know obviously, all good wishes and you know just, I don't know, pass along by my good thoughts to him when do you when you see him.

00:42:41.94
Mike
Mm hmm. Oh, absolutely. I will.

00:42:45.85
Bill
And it's ah one one of those things that, I mean, shit, when Dan died.

00:42:46.27
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:51.48
Bill
Fucking ran out that whatever day it was and, uh, uh, you know, cause I figured it'd be the next weekend and, you know, bought a new shirt.

00:42:55.06
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:42:57.28
Bill
Cause I'm like, I want a new dress shirt. I bought a black shirt and stuff. And then you're like, Oh, that's done, man. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Cause that, you know, that would have been nice to be able to, it happened too quickly. I mean, I was, I couldn't have, I couldn't have got there cause I was babysitting for Ollie that weekend, but, uh, I guess he died on like a Thursday and I think they had it that Sunday or something like that.

00:43:06.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:14.28
Bill
It was crazy.

00:43:14.23
Mike
Yeah, yeah, it was it was fast.

00:43:16.77
Bill
Yeah, which again, I mean, I get it. I mean, it's ah certainly not about me, but I just would have would have loved to have been there as one of our but of our close friends to at least up you know pay respects or show up, you know?

00:43:20.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:23.22
Mike
Right.

00:43:27.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:29.09
Bill
But hey, again, it's not all about me.

00:43:32.67
Mike
Really?

00:43:34.05
Bill
I know, I gotta keep to, okay, wait, note to self, it's, i well,

00:43:36.24
Mike
Wait, let me write that down. Where's my pen? It's not all about Bill.

00:43:42.25
Bill
Yeah, you know, every day pretty much is, I don't necessarily say that my prayers, but I get, I get, I humble myself every goddamn day because, you know, we've talked about, we figured out maybe it's not egotism.

00:43:45.75
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:43:52.37
Bill
It's just really, really over, I'm, I'm overconfident at times. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but, uh, Hey, that, that is what it is too.

00:43:58.03
Mike
Right.

00:44:00.60
Bill
So, all right. Well, um, yeah, whatever speed to, uh, to LD and, uh, yeah, rest, rest in whatever place or PC he chooses to rest in, right?

00:44:06.29
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:09.46
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:44:12.07
Bill
All right, so on that note, what do you think?

00:44:12.90
Mike
Yes. Yeah, it's about that time. All right. We'll be back with some more stuff. Let's find out what the fuck's wrong with bill right after these words from our sponsor.

00:44:28.90
Bill
All right, everyone.

00:44:31.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:32.58
Bill
Welcome back. um do weland How much time do we got? What's wrong with Bill?

00:44:37.79
Mike
Well, all right, let let me clarify that. It was very, very general there. What the fuck's wrong with Bill's living space?

00:44:47.39
Bill
Okay so um so the I'll make this as short as possible okay but you every everyone out there that's listening for a minute I'm sorry but I'll start off I'm sorry kind of a long story but so first thing um I eyeball this place because in searching around when I'm searching for Airbnbs I do it sometimes in a very general sense because I don't necessarily need to be anywhere but

00:44:52.04
Mike
this is

00:45:09.25
Bill
There's areas that I that I wanted to go back to in Arkansas was one just because it's again it it is so fucking beautiful.

00:45:12.60
Mike
Mhm.

00:45:15.99
Bill
Northern Arkansas, Missouri, all that shit. Very cool. So I ran across this place a couple of times but I kept reading things about the Wi Fi being bad and this and that and sporadic because it's kind of out in you know the middle of wherever and um But finally, I read this one that I'm staying in. They have fiber internet. and I'm like, okay, I've been in a few different places with fiber. So first of all, for doing this thing, no difference on a download, but on the upload speed, it evens whatever the download is. So I ended up messaging the the host who happens to be, a she's a realtor, but it's a management company, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, they got fiber. And I'm like, I need to know the speed that matters. So she's like, it's guaranteed to be at least 100 megabits. I'm like, that's all I need, a minimum of that. And that's what it is. you know

00:45:59.67
Bill
True to form. So the upload speed is the same at 100. Now your upload speed, Kathy's upload speed, cable upload speed is anywhere between 10 to 15, maybe 20 if you're lucky.

00:46:11.25
Bill
um So huge, again, for doing this from a selfish standpoint, when I'm uploading these files put together this episode, it it cuts my time literally not in half, but it shaves off about probably 20 minutes of my time.

00:46:17.49
Mike
Mm hmm. Okay.

00:46:23.54
Bill
um But so all said and done, and it's a studio, and I'm like, I've never stayed in a studio before, but I'm like, I don't i don't give a fuck.

00:46:30.23
Mike
Right.

00:46:30.30
Bill
Because I kind of decided that um I'm going to places, I like being in, I've been in houses and single units and whatever, you know versus like Ozarks, that's a nicer condo complex and whatever, people aren't noisy for the most part.

00:46:34.11
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:46:45.03
Bill
um you know But I'm like, I don't really care, it's just a place to, I got room to work and lay my head down.

00:46:49.63
Mike
Right. Right.

00:46:51.30
Bill
So I get here and I pull it in and I pull in and right away I'm looking at the buildings and I'm like, hmm, they're kind of older, okay. And not older in a bad way, they don't look structurally like they're falling apart, but you can see areas where like there, cause there's steps that go up to the porch, front porch areas, balconies that go into the units and there it's all wood.

00:47:11.82
Bill
So you can tell like stairs have been replaced, but not painted, you know, or you can see boards being replaced, but not painted. So the first thing I'm like, okay, so they're, they're reactive, not proactive here. You can tell it's like what something needs to be replaced.

00:47:21.51
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:47:23.51
Bill
We're going to place board. We'll paint it whenever the fuck we feel like it. The balcony where I'm at, they painted up to the edge where the railing is. You can see it's all unpainted, you know, on the other side. Just tacky shit like that, just visually.

00:47:35.11
Mike
Right.

00:47:36.49
Bill
um Came in here, not a big deal. The toilet paper roll, you know, is is coming off the wall. Not a big deal in the bathrooms. There's things that are newer and in whatever. ah The bed is not real comfortable.

00:47:46.72
Bill
Again, all these things not that big of a deal.

00:47:47.07
Mike
Hmm.

00:47:49.05
Bill
But so I get in here, and I get all my shit loaded up, I test my internet, I'm all good, figure out where I can put stuff. I'm like, okay, not a lot of counter space. Again, minor things, right?

00:47:57.68
Mike
Right.

00:47:58.17
Bill
um But I'm sitting here on on Saturday, and I don't know if I had um walked outside. First of all, all the patio doors, they squeak, they're a heavy patio door, and I was like, or open them up every one of them because you could hear people opening their doors.

00:48:11.28
Mike
Right.

00:48:12.29
Bill
So, all of them squeak, they're not quiet, you know, something like that, again, is what it is. um But, so i'm I'm outside and I think you know I heard some dogs barking like wow that's that's kind of weird I didn't know there were dogs here, because it says in this unit, no pets at all so um I thought it was no pets in the complex.

00:48:28.02
Mike
All right.

00:48:28.60
Bill
Well, as it turns out, the guy, one guy next to me has two dogs, person on the other side of me has a dog, and they're all, they're not media, they're, they're not shitsus or anything like Kathy's dogs, like Katniss and Tugger, but they sound like them, but um they just go on and on and on and down and on on and on and on and on and on.

00:48:31.50
Mike
Hmm.

00:48:43.06
Mike
Ah. ah

00:48:46.49
Bill
They never stop. So medium sized dogs. So on Sunday, I want to do a load of laundry. um And first off, that must be the thing here, the washer and dryer on the patio, they build out these little wood enclosures.

00:48:59.83
Mike
hu Yeah.

00:49:00.03
Bill
So the washer and dryer on the balcony, I'm like, let's fucking weird but I think everyone is like that is what it is so out there and these dogs are like on this other side of this wall you know but kind of open on the bottom and top and just fucking barking like crazy while I'm trying to put laundry in I'm like what the fuck man and I can hear the guy there and he's not doing anything you know so Saturday night I was woken up um once or twice just a couple of different times when they started barking not a big deal

00:49:19.55
Mike
Right.

00:49:27.91
Bill
Sunday I'm sitting here after all sudden done, I get back and I you know took a shower after I was running around the trails and shit like that. I ate. I'm not kidding from 6 p.m. until 8 p.m.

00:49:40.11
Bill
These two dogs from this dude next door barked for two hours.

00:49:43.07
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:49:46.34
Bill
Nonstop. And I mean, me I love to exaggerate. You know, it makes for a good story on here.

00:49:50.63
Mike
Right. Sure.

00:49:51.96
Bill
um I'm not exaggerating. And I messaged the lady at the the host. i'm like I'm like, what the hell? I said, that for the last two hours, I'm like, these guys' dogs. And the only reason I knew what truck he drove, because when I was coming back or walking in, I think I saw him.

00:50:07.08
Bill
um I, number one, saw him outside with his dogs. And he got something from his truck. So I knew where his truck was. I looked outside. His truck's gone, you know? So then in this all all night, you know, these dogs are well for two hours barking. And then, you know, I'm trying to go to bed, they're barking here and they're barking. I ended up only positive about a studio as a TV. I looked up on YouTube and I found background noise with thunderstorms and ocean sounds and turned the fucking TV up to drown out these dogs.

00:50:35.13
Mike
Nice.

00:50:36.07
Bill
That's how I went to sleep two nights in a row, Sunday and Monday night, okay?

00:50:39.41
Mike
Right.

00:50:39.50
Bill
um Because I wouldn't have been able to sleep.

00:50:41.29
Mike
right

00:50:41.49
Bill
So I messaged this lady and I'm just like, blah, blah, blah, the dog's like, she's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry to see what I could do. So I don't hear anything on Sunday, Monday night is going crazy. Again, Tuesday, I sent her a message.

00:50:51.87
Bill
I'm like, did you hear anything? And I said it like right away in the morning at like 730.

00:50:53.70
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:50:56.06
Bill
Thankfully, during the day, it's been sporadic, you know, so here and they're not a big deal.

00:50:58.30
Mike
Okay. Right.

00:50:59.64
Bill
So it's not affecting my work. but the guy's home during the day so he must when he works he must go to he must go to work at like six and not be home to whatever you know um in these dogs oh what he did was first two nights i was down here it was fucking great and weather was perfect it was in the mid to upper 80s so he must have let this patio door open so they can walk in and out so they would stand on the balcony and just shit was moving out there to the parking

00:51:08.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:25.78
Bill
just bark, bark, bark, bark, bark.

00:51:25.98
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:51:27.18
Bill
So here's the equivalent.

00:51:27.24
Mike
Hmm.

00:51:28.82
Bill
You know where you sit on your couch downstairs to watch TV.

00:51:31.99
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:32.77
Bill
Okay, put two dogs at your front door. Okay. And I'm not kidding you, that's about the distance and let them bark for two hours.

00:51:39.60
Mike
Right. ah No.

00:51:43.63
Bill
Yeah. Uh, no. So, um, so Tuesday I messaged this lady on blah, blah, blah.

00:51:45.79
Mike
Nope.

00:51:48.59
Bill
I'm like, did you hear anything? I'm like, I, you know, I tell her I'm like a TV on in this and that I can't sleep at night. Um, so she's like, Oh, I, I messaged them and we'll see what they can do and blah, blah, blah. And I reached out to him finally after like, it took like two hours for her to get back to me.

00:52:02.34
Bill
Cause then I'm thinking like, Am I, am I complaining like out of the ordinary? Cause I try not to, you know?

00:52:07.40
Mike
Right. Yeah, I know.

00:52:08.06
Bill
Um, but these are, this is, I mean, either affecting my sleep or my sanity, um, more so yeah, or both.

00:52:13.29
Mike
Right. Or both.

00:52:15.94
Bill
So finally she gets back to me and, um, and she's like, she's like, well, I reached out to the condo association. She's like, um, you know, they'll, they'll see what they, the, hopefully they can get something done.

00:52:26.85
Bill
And then literally that could have, that message could have stopped there, but she's like, however,

00:52:33.58
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:52:33.97
Bill
i've never I've never had a noise complaint in that unit before.

00:52:35.88
Mike
Mmm.

00:52:38.28
Bill
Cause I mean, one of the part, I'm like, I don't see my message on Tuesday morning. I was so fucking frazzled. I'm like, I don't know.

00:52:43.08
Mike
Right.

00:52:43.42
Bill
I don't see how people even live here. Cause I mean, it's not just me. That's a whole condo complex.

00:52:47.60
Mike
Sure.

00:52:48.64
Bill
And they're just barking into these woods. So it's echoing over everyone, you know? um So then she's like, however, I never had a noise complaint. And in my head, I'm like, okay, bitch.

00:52:58.58
Mike
Mm-hmm-hmm-hmm-hmm.

00:53:01.80
Bill
you fucking whore why don't you come hang out here for a couple hours and you see you know because then i start then i start to question myself i'm like what the fuck am i questioning myself for so i messaged back i'm like well i said the second line in your thing you know i said that makes it sound like it's my problem or like it's a me thing and i said i said here's the deal i said i don't i don't complain i said you can see all the places you know i've been to i'm not going to leave a bad review

00:53:06.53
Mike
All right. Uh huh.

00:53:27.24
Bill
I said, I reach out to things like this because this is the way that I think of right things to get to done get done.

00:53:31.67
Mike
Right.

00:53:32.13
Bill
And I said, part of me feels like I should apologize and part of me doesn't, but I said, I apologize if I caused any issues with this. And you can just, my message is dripping with fucking sarcasm, you know?

00:53:43.15
Mike
aha

00:53:44.04
Bill
And then she's like, no need to apologize. I'm just saying that normally, you know, we it might be another guest in there and this and that, because we haven't had any complaints.

00:53:49.54
Mike
Aha.

00:53:51.23
Bill
And I'm just like, you know, she's like, we'll see what we can do. And I just put, thank you, done.

00:53:55.30
Mike
ah

00:53:55.36
Bill
And then, you know what, they were quiet the the last couple of nights, and I haven't had to put the TV on and shit like that. But but still, they just it's it's I don't blame the dogs. It's not their fucking fault.

00:54:05.47
Mike
Right.

00:54:06.73
Bill
you know it's the It's the people, because they you know they just let them in.

00:54:09.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:54:10.62
Bill
Oh, my god. i mean If you're going to be gone like that, and I take, like Kathy's dogs, are very good, take all all four of them. okay

00:54:17.47
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:54:17.63
Bill
so I mean Moxie when she's up in the room unless somebody makes a lot of weird noise she just hangs out there and she's cool but the door shut whatever nothing to bother her. um You know Katniss and Tugger if a lot of times I'll you know all have the blinds closed and stuff in a living room because again if they see something it's their natural reaction they want to go what is this I want to bark at you.

00:54:26.11
Mike
Right.

00:54:36.32
Mike
Right.

00:54:36.63
Bill
Or if they were not in there in their crate, they would go back in the patio and they would they would do the same thing. They would look out the door and they'd fucking bark all day. They're dogs, you know?

00:54:44.08
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

00:54:45.87
Bill
But if you say something to them, like, shut the fuck up. Stop that!

00:54:51.82
Mike
Right.

00:54:52.47
Bill
They will, you know, because they they've been trained, you know. um But I'm just like, I'm like, seriously, it's the the only thing so I tried to pull some gratitude out of this, first of all, um you know, obviously, I get to do these things. That's number one, the the place that I went the area, I didn't get a chance to kick around this week, but that's by nature when I'm someplace just for a week, it's not a big deal.

00:55:12.83
Bill
but the place I got to see last weekend, fucking worth it, okay? um I got to work without very many interruptions. um I was able to sleep. I had to, you know, whatever, the TV and stuff.

00:55:24.82
Bill
um But the grateful part of it is, is could you imagine moving in, like I signed a lease and I moved into this fucking place and then, and now that's what I get to deal with.

00:55:24.78
Mike
Right. Right.

00:55:35.14
Bill
yeah You know, so it isn't that, you know, but um by all means, I mean, this is, ah i I've been lucky, you know, because I've been, I've stayed in, you know, a couple of different, um well, where's I in a condo? Oh, Oklahoma City, I was in a condo, that was fine. um Memphis, I was in a building, you know, a big building, like a warehouse building that they had. That was like overwhelming weed smell out in the hallways, but it wasn't noisy.

00:56:03.67
Bill
um

00:56:03.65
Mike
Right.

00:56:04.76
Bill
In the Ozarks that condo complex three times, I've stayed there for a total of a month or so total, you know.

00:56:11.22
Mike
Right.

00:56:12.53
Bill
So, I mean, I guess I've just gotten lucky, you know, and um I guess the only the only thing that I can do, um and I've asked, you know, I've asked a question about how neighbors are and things like that. Oh, when I was in Branson, I was in a condo, because a dude was up there doing band practice.

00:56:26.53
Mike
right Yeah.

00:56:28.28
Bill
But, um you know, I mean, I suppose I can ask, but I don't know if if somebody's going to be honest with me, but it just, this was, this was, has been from from that standpoint, from a just the, again, my, my

00:56:32.85
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:40.92
Bill
not being able to sleep, you know, don't fuck with my food or my sleep. You know, those are my two, my kids, yeah, of course, but.

00:56:43.67
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:56:49.19
Bill
upperper Number one and two, my don't fuck with my food or my sleep.

00:56:52.89
Mike
Right. And then don't fuck with my kids. No, right?

00:56:55.04
Bill
Right, yeah, then then don't fuck with my kids, so but up until then, but.

00:57:00.21
Bill
So yeah, but just, um I don't know.

00:57:00.94
Mike
All right.

00:57:02.81
Bill
And just,

00:57:03.61
Mike
So I've been really there for a week, right? So you're bailing out of there this weekend.

00:57:07.65
Bill
Oh yeah, and and it's kind of funny, i might um I was thinking about it, and I don't know yet, it depends on how I feel after I'm done with this, but you know again, I got 12 hours plus plus the time change, and I may just, after after I'm done putting all this shit together, I may lay down for a few hours and just get up and leave here like three in the morning or something like that, because then

00:57:25.78
Mike
Hmm.

00:57:28.67
Bill
because I can check in by four, I would rather go without a little bit of sleep and get there, you know, and because I, you know, again, get there, get settled, I want to try to get my, myself settled a little bit.

00:57:33.54
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:57:38.52
Bill
So I got, you know, Sunday to kick around.

00:57:40.94
Mike
Right.

00:57:41.15
Bill
um You know, because I've got all these so different places mapped out that I want to go. But my first thought was because I, again, I came back from getting off to tell you about my pizza thing in here in a second, came back from getting pizza, and I saw the guy leaving.

00:57:53.63
Bill
I'm like, Oh, fuck these dogs.

00:57:55.44
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:57:56.19
Bill
They've been quiet, though. you know I mean, a couple of barking, a little bit of barking here and there. But you know when he's not there, they just, I mean, thankfully, it's gotten colder a little bit.

00:58:04.47
Mike
Right.

00:58:04.77
Bill
you know So the the patio's not open. But yeah, oh, and and thank God I'm not here for you know two weeks or three weeks or something like that.

00:58:11.82
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:12.68
Bill
That would have been just I would have tried to go someplace else, you know Because yeah, this is it's I told the fucking lady I'm like what when they were barking like that for two hours And then when I couldn't wonder what I'm trying to go to sleep.

00:58:13.92
Mike
Mm-hm.

00:58:24.61
Bill
I'm like it. This is fucking unbearable I have to be able to I gotta be able to sleep, you know, I Mean, even if I wasn't 56 years old man, you know 20 year old me needed sleep, too

00:58:26.58
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:58:35.90
Mike
Sure. Now 20 year old me didn't need a whole lot of sleep.

00:58:39.98
Bill
Yeah, no certainly and certainly not certainly not as much, not as much at all, as for goddamn sure.

00:58:43.12
Mike
Well, I had help not sleeping.

00:58:48.39
Bill
Yeah, yeah, a little bit of hope. See, I never never did the ah did the old cocaine thing, but, you know.

00:58:52.66
Mike
Oh, no. Fuck cocaine, man. I did speed. Fuck all that shit.

00:58:55.82
Bill
Oh, okay.

00:58:57.56
Mike
You know, my record was like two weeks, right?

00:59:00.27
Bill
2-0 of no sleep.

00:59:02.02
Mike
Nope.

00:59:02.86
Bill
Okay, everyone, calm down for a minute. we Enough of my story, I wanna hear this. Go ahead, and do tell.

00:59:07.76
Mike
Oh, no, just, you know, it was gotta run, man. said Did, you know, didn't, uh, yeah, after about a week and a half, it was like, oh shit, I'll just never sleep again. It's fine. Uh,

00:59:20.88
Mike
No, but you know you do start to like hear things and see things and it's not, I wouldn't recommend it, let me put it that way.

00:59:21.15
Bill
We're going to.

00:59:28.60
Mike
But yes, my my record was 14 days without sleep.

00:59:28.85
Bill
Right.

00:59:32.69
Bill
That's just that's fucking insane. That's insane.

00:59:34.29
Mike
Yeah, it is.

00:59:36.04
Bill
ah But so speed and booze, I'm guessing, right?

00:59:39.40
Mike
Oh yeah, losing air, sure. Yeah, you know, pot and cigarettes and whatever. Yeah, yeah, meth is a hell of a thing.

00:59:46.51
Bill
Right.

00:59:51.16
Bill
Yeah, and you know what i what I was thinking about was that the last time I went with, because I was you know depending on when when I left um here, um you know when I went down to Myrtle Beach, you know by the time I by a time i went to went to bed that night at 10 or whatever it was it was, I had been up for 36 hours.

01:00:00.54
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:00:06.90
Bill
um that might be yeah um That might be my my limit of full. you know up There was a there was couple of times when I used to go to conferences and stuff like that. The one time I stayed up all night and came back to the room, I i got 45 minutes of sleep, got up, cleaned up, and then went back to the conference.

01:00:23.59
Mike
Right.

01:00:23.83
Bill
So you figured that that would have been, maybe that was two full days, and minus 45 minutes, or it might have been more.

01:00:29.23
Mike
right

01:00:29.61
Bill
but um And yeah, drinking all the way through.

01:00:32.15
Mike
Sure. Oh yeah.

01:00:33.15
Bill
but ah But I mean, shit, I was i fuck was i late at that time, maybe mid to late 20s.

01:00:37.53
Mike
Right.

01:00:40.08
Bill
So yeah definitely yeah, definitely could handle it at that point.

01:00:40.32
Mike
sir Sure.

01:00:43.85
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, one way or the other. yeah when I don't know. i mean my My thought was tonight, I'm like, if if if if I get this done and everyone's fucking noisy in it, because I'm like, I don't know what this place is going to be like on a Friday night.

01:00:56.85
Bill
you know

01:00:57.55
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:57.99
Bill
It's not again, it's not there's nothing wrong. I've seen a couple of people it's not get a wish or anything like that. It's just it looks like a place that used to be really fucking nice.

01:01:03.37
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:07.40
Bill
And then it just it changed a little bit, you know, and it's not a bit.

01:01:10.02
Mike
Right.

01:01:11.19
Bill
It's not a bad area. This is almost like a resort community. Like I say, it's just something that but this place seems reactive more than proactive now.

01:01:19.85
Mike
Right.

01:01:19.97
Bill
um Somebody let it go a little bit is the easiest thing I can put it and rent I'm guessing might be a little bit cheaper.

01:01:23.13
Mike
Yep.

01:01:26.71
Bill
Especially you take a look at how some of the buildings are and stuff like that.

01:01:28.43
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:29.81
Bill
And it's not like there's cars up on blocks out in the driveway or anything or it's not that, but yeah, it's a medium level place with a lot of fucking dogs.

01:01:39.77
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:42.43
Bill
Which again, no offense, it's not the fucking dog's fault.

01:01:42.74
Mike
All right.

01:01:45.19
Bill
It's not, it's the fucking people. you know

01:01:47.13
Mike
Yep.

01:01:48.16
Bill
So I don't know. we'll We'll see either I'll get you know relatively no sleep or no sleep at all And I'll just drive to fucking West Virginia and be cool yeah But yeah, so I mean ah again I tried I really did try to You know try to look at the the good side of it I mean I the one thing that I did think about and to get back to the booze part of it um Because that's that's the point as i I think there is sober.

01:01:55.33
Mike
Right. he

01:02:11.12
Bill
Is that part of our podcasting sober?

01:02:12.79
Mike
Yeah, I believe so.

01:02:13.20
Bill
Yeah

01:02:13.75
Mike
Right.

01:02:15.03
Bill
um ah First thing I thought, I'm like, God, there what a gift that I'm not, I was talking about gifts before, but um it's if I was drinking in some of this shit, i would have I would have gone fucking nuts.

01:02:25.17
Mike
hu

01:02:28.05
Bill
I would have been yelling and screaming.

01:02:28.43
Mike
Right.

01:02:29.29
Bill
I would have been beaten on walls. I would have been beaten on doors, but just in general, I mean, in in any of these places, I never would have been able to um organize this or afford something like this or keep a job that I could have been able to do.

01:02:31.91
Mike
Right.

01:02:41.43
Mike
right

01:02:42.98
Bill
you know anything like this but if I couldn't imagine you know having this type of freedom when I was drinking um just being in these I'd fuck everything up all the time all the fucking time but uh yeah you know what I I'm just said I'm so fucking glad I don't have to live that way anymore

01:02:48.90
Mike
Right. Of course. Yup. Yes, exactly.

01:03:04.30
Bill
But OK, so there was something when when I was talking about the the dns before you said you'd say talk to later, were you were you watching the game or what was the deal?

01:03:08.75
Mike
Uh huh.

01:03:13.58
Mike
What? Wait, who?

01:03:14.90
Bill
When before when we were talking about the game to begin with, you said you're like, oh, i I'll talk about that later. You said the something with the the game now.

01:03:20.34
Mike
Oh, oh, just oh, oh, yeah. It's just last night. It was fucking incredible. Oh, i well, i yeah. Talking about just walking away, figuring it's over. Yeah, it was. It was, it was, ah it was night deading and, you know, Naylor headed into a fucking double play. And I was like, well, this is done. and And I walked into the other room and did something and walked back in and I fucking hit a home run and tied it up and went into extra innings and then did a walk off home run. It was fucking beautiful.

01:03:55.69
Bill
Yeah, it's ah it's just it's crazy. And the the one that I know you hated the most, and I don't bring it up anymore because I'm not a real fan of Rodgers anymore, but you know the the fucking Hail Mary against the Lions when they won that game.

01:04:07.72
Bill
And that was you know that that because you can't end a game out of defensive penalty and so they had to fucking want more play.

01:04:07.88
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:04:15.94
Bill
And I'm like, that's that's why you never fucking walk away. You know you just never know.

01:04:18.80
Mike
Yep.

01:04:20.07
Bill
But oh, that motherfucker's a trip now.

01:04:22.18
Mike
No.

01:04:22.50
Bill
Do you see Devontae Adams? You know who Devontae Adams is? He was with ah but he was with the a great receiver. He went out to the Raiders a couple years ago, whatever it was.

01:04:34.48
Bill
And then they just said, I apparently did the fucking Jets, just did this monster trade. Actually took on the majority of Devontae's salary, the whole fucking bit. I mean, they went all fucking in with this dude to bring him in ah to the Jets with Rodgers.

01:04:49.45
Mike
Uh huh.

01:04:49.75
Bill
And everyone, again, their Milwaukee radio, they're just, they're kind of laughing at all this stuff. They're like, fucking New York, have fun, man. Just all this shit, you can just have fun with that motherfucker. you know And I mean, I'm reading these articles from people that are different parts of the country, a glance at some of this stuff and like, Rogers needs to hang it up. He's 40 fucking years old, he's this, he's that.

01:05:10.03
Bill
And then, you know, that he's got, people are blaming him because of what's his fuck. They got fired and they're saying he's a coach killer and all this different shit. And then now the team just, I mean, literally just ah millions and millions of dollars to bring in. And Devontae is a great receiver, don't get me wrong. But, um you know, they, and Rob just saying, oh, I had nothing to do with that either. It's like, Jesus Christ, man.

01:05:30.98
Bill
It's just ah it's a fucking mess. But um yeah, it just it's funny.

01:05:33.22
Mike
Alright.

01:05:36.10
Bill
It's funny. but So the game is on right now though. They're playing again.

01:05:40.96
Mike
It is. yep Yeah.

01:05:43.33
Bill
What's the score?

01:05:43.44
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:44.29
Bill
What's happening?

01:05:46.42
Mike
Uh was two to one uh Yankees. Now, it's three to one. They just **** hit a home run.

01:05:52.16
Bill
Oh, did they?

01:05:52.92
Mike
Yeah, bastards.

01:05:53.14
Bill
Damn.

01:05:56.25
Bill
Marty's over there having fun.

01:05:57.23
Mike
Nothing. Uh huh.

01:05:58.32
Bill
Yeah, because that's the other. Yeah, every everyone, are are Marty, the guy who was, ah again, Keating Center, our good friend, blah, blah, blah. yeah He's been a Yankees guy for years, so.

01:06:04.00
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep.

01:06:08.49
Bill
But all right, so let's do, well, yeah, we're an hour and six minutes in. Let's go and dip into so some sober stuff.

01:06:13.44
Mike
Hey.

01:06:15.48
Bill
yeah I hate, what do you think? ah Okay, so um this one actually was just from today, from Keep It Simple. Today I'll list ways I typically get stubborn.

01:06:28.13
Bill
I think we've touched on stubbornness a little bit before, but um are there like, ah I don't know, something that you could that you could name off the top of your head that you get that you get stubborn about?

01:06:29.10
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:06:39.96
Bill
everything.

01:06:41.58
Mike
Yeah, mostly. um Yeah, yeah i stubbornness, two-edged sword, man. You know, um I'm very stubborn about my sobriety.

01:06:50.33
Bill
Hi,

01:06:53.94
Mike
um Yeah, very much so.

01:06:56.19
Bill
Chris.

01:06:56.34
Mike
um Yeah, there's stuff that, fucking, Chris is laughing her ass off right now. um

01:07:05.89
Bill
hi chris

01:07:06.73
Mike
Right. Yes. She calls me stubborn all the time. You stubborn man. ah Um, and I am, I'm, I'm very stubborn about, uh, a lot of things. Um, right. But I have to be careful because my have to, you know, uh, that open-mindedness and willingness and all of that kind of goes against being stubborn. Um, so I'm certainly not as stubborn as I used to be, but, um,

01:07:35.42
Mike
Yeah, you know, I, I have my ways. Um, and, uh, I like my ways. My ways are good for me. And that's right for me.

01:07:48.60
Bill
My ways are good ways for me.

01:07:53.86
Mike
I'm aware of that.

01:07:55.44
Bill
ah yeah youre qualifie you're qualified as You You did qualify

01:07:55.80
Mike
You know, they're not good for everybody. Yeah, they're not good. Right. My ways are not good for everyone. I understand that. That's okay. ah but you know My house, my rules. um yeah

01:08:09.98
Bill
Get off my lawn.

01:08:11.40
Mike
God damn right. ah

01:08:15.58
Bill
Ah.

01:08:16.08
Mike
Um, I fuck, I don't know. Yes, I am stubborn. I am. And it's, you know, again, um, I have to be careful because in some ways it is good. In some ways it is very detrimental to my, you know, I was stubborn with my drinking, you know, nobody's going to fucking tell me I couldn't drink.

01:08:29.23
Bill
Right.

01:08:31.67
Mike
Um, that was, that was bad stubbornness. Um, I turned it around and, you know, I'm stubborn about my sobriety. Um, you know, no, I need to do these things. These are the things I do. This is, I'm not going to fucking give them up for anything.

01:08:45.39
Mike
Um, But yeah, they're, you know, that character defects and all that stuff. I have to give up. I can't be stubborn about them anymore, which kind of sucks.

01:08:53.31
Bill
Right.

01:08:54.69
Mike
but

01:08:57.63
Bill
Yeah, you know, and I'm glad you brought up the sobriety thing because I was, I was thinking, uh, same thing. I, I tend to always look at the, the bad rather than the good. So, um, I appreciate that you brought that up because it is, I mean, you take, you know, the, the spite shit, you know, you, you guys can't do this.

01:09:05.68
Mike
and Right. Right.

01:09:11.71
Bill
The statistics are against you. Well, fuck you.

01:09:14.02
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:09:14.39
Bill
yeah ah yeah Yeah, we can and we're going to.

01:09:16.93
Mike
out.

01:09:17.70
Bill
In spite of all you motherfuckers in your statistics, you know. um But the the thing of it is is that I i can um you know i could easily be stubborn in that same mindset to you know to my detriment.

01:09:29.99
Bill
you know Somebody tells me it doesn't matter what it is. you know you're you're this or you're that. Oh no, the fuck I'm not. And I could be, you know, again, where I think where you were kind of leading to is on, you know, on the bad side of it.

01:09:36.13
Mike
Right.

01:09:41.84
Bill
I still have that in me. And I used to do that all the time. But somebody said that whatever it was, um you know, this is what you're going to do. No, I'm going to do the exact opposite. Even if I knew the opposite would hurt me, you know, because you're not going to tell me what to do because the things I do are good for me.

01:09:51.14
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. That's right.

01:10:02.48
Bill
That was just so so fucking funny. um But yeah, there are certain things, like you said, that you know the things we have to do. um Thankfully, I mean, I've never had a family member or you know a close friend or anything like that you know tell me that I can't go to a meeting or something like that.

01:10:18.48
Bill
or

01:10:18.46
Mike
Right.

01:10:19.26
Bill
you know, why are you doing this or why are you doing that? ah Maybe there's been a question like, oh, you got it, why why do you get up, you know, fucking three hours before you got to be someplace?

01:10:26.58
Mike
All

01:10:27.10
Bill
And I answer the question like, well, I got readings, I get this and I get that and I get fucking social media shit that I do. It's all things that, that i you know, I've committed myself to and that's what I do.

01:10:31.97
Mike
right. Mm hmm.

01:10:36.02
Bill
um You know, but um i've I've never had it, you know, like anyone, I don't know, nobody's put up like a wall for me in those circumstances, you know, i saying I can't do something, so I haven't had to use that, but um I don't know, you know, I mean, um'm I, again, you know, I've got my ways, whatever whatever my ways are. Well, but I guess think about this way for tonight, you know, I would love at some point um to to be with somebody that I could travel with,

01:11:02.68
Bill
um and they would they would have the flexibility that I do. But in a situation like this, like, you know, this whole, again, I don't know what's gonna happen tonight and, you know, I don't know how I'm gonna, if I'm gonna be tired when I'm done with this, but if I wanna leave it 11 o'clock at night or I wanna go lay down for a couple hours and leave it two in the morning, um I wanna leave when I fucking wanna leave, you know?

01:11:14.41
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:11:22.57
Mike
Right.

01:11:23.33
Bill
I don't have to ask anyone.

01:11:25.21
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:11:26.99
Bill
Hey, um by the way, does does anyone out, anyone listening right now, do you give a fuck if I leave at 11 o'clock tonight or or three or six?

01:11:32.29
Mike
he Right.

01:11:34.77
Bill
No, you don't. I don't have to ask anyone. And I like that.

01:11:37.62
Mike
Right.

01:11:39.04
Bill
And if somebody were here with me, then I would i might have to finesse my way.

01:11:44.50
Mike
right

01:11:45.46
Bill
And I, because I wouldn't want to be a stubborn asshole and say, listen, we're fucking going.

01:11:50.76
Mike
Right.

01:11:50.83
Bill
you know I don't wanna be that guy these days where I was so i was always that guy before, right?

01:11:51.60
Mike
Right.

01:11:55.50
Mike
Of course.

01:11:56.39
Bill
Well, I mean, you know, you weren't there, but I think you know I was.

01:11:58.24
Mike
Right. yeah Yeah, because right, because I was still right.

01:12:01.92
Bill
Right?

01:12:01.95
Mike
My way or the highway.

01:12:03.84
Bill
Yeah, that's fine.

01:12:04.46
Mike
Yeah, which is which is not again.

01:12:04.52
Bill
Yeah, you don't want to do this, I'm going to do this.

01:12:06.71
Mike
Yeah, I know. i' I'm half joking. You know, my way is good for me. No, of course, yeah yeah my way got me to the fucking Keating Center, too. I know that.

01:12:14.22
Bill
Right.

01:12:14.24
Mike
ah So I've opened enough mind. But yeah, for, you know, little shit. And and again, what what's good for my ah sobriety, my, my mental wellbeing, my, my comfort in where I live, all that good stuff. You know, again, yes, keep things clean, keep things orderly, keep things whatever. Yeah. That's, I'm sort of stubborn in that way and I don't give a fuck.

01:12:37.96
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, ah you know, again, I mean, I suppose it goes back to, you know, the the things that we do today, um although that be, you know, with our with our drinking and stuff, oh we're not we're not hurting anyone, you know, we're not this doesn't affect anyone but me.

01:12:52.37
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:12:52.82
Bill
Whereas, you know, that that's kind of the way it is me getting up, whatever time I get up, if I get up three hours before I'm going to be someplace or two and a half or whatever it is, that truly has no effect on anyone else.

01:13:04.71
Mike
Right.

01:13:05.13
Bill
You know, and I'm not hurting anyone if I ever get up early like it's your place um I don't know if you heard me leave, you know when I when I left there last weekend um But and I I left it I got up at three and I left at six You know and I had a fucking all this different shit to haul down the stairs and you know I didn't fall down or yell or anything like that But I I try to do that.

01:13:20.57
Mike
All right

01:13:26.11
Bill
So I don't want to affect other people with that, you know, it's my choice to do that um

01:13:28.37
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:13:31.35
Bill
you know But the whole point is, I suppose with those sort of things, truly, we're not affecting anyone but ourselves if we do or don't do it. you know Which is, I just kind of popped into my head.

01:13:39.77
Mike
Right. Well, I mean, kind of, kind of the opposite of that. I mean, if I don't fucking do it, trust me, I'm going to affect other people.

01:13:45.29
Bill
Huh?

01:13:47.37
Mike
Yeah. Um, you know, I, I mean, I, you know, the majority of my life, I was a complete fucking raging asshole in the morning.

01:13:48.33
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:13:55.38
Mike
I hated to get up. I still don't like it, but you know, I hated to get up, but you know, with the, the routines that we were taught, um,

01:13:58.04
Bill
Right.

01:14:04.83
Mike
you know, taking that 20 minutes in the morning by myself to, you know, put myself in a decent headspace.

01:14:10.62
Bill
Uh-huh.

01:14:11.66
Mike
It's fucking huge, man. You know, I mean, i I don't rage in the morning. I may not be happy to get up or whatever, but, you know, I have interactions now, especially lately with people in the morning.

01:14:22.61
Mike
And, you know, I'm fucking cool, man. um okay I'm I'm not thrilled. I got to get up and go to work and whatever. And, you know, um, but I, I'm not a raging asshole because I've taken the time to ti two get my head right, to put myself in a decent head space where, you know, I'm not an asshole.

01:14:43.53
Mike
Again, I may not be happy, but I have to remind myself that it's not all about me.

01:14:48.01
Bill
Right.

01:14:48.10
Mike
um Yeah, that's part of that process in the morning. And yeah, by the time I get to the other human beings, um or just the human beings,

01:14:59.19
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, I'm, I've calmed myself down.

01:15:03.63
Bill
Right.

01:15:04.15
Mike
Yeah. Every fucking day.

01:15:06.12
Bill
Well, and, you know, i' said that's actually a good point. I didn't even think about that, that, you know, but, you know, knowing how I am, I could be like, yeah, I'm helping you.

01:15:15.38
Mike
you heard her

01:15:16.60
Bill
Which I wouldn't do that, but um I mean, it it is.

01:15:18.35
Mike
Right.

01:15:19.89
Bill
It's in everyone's best interest that we do those things in the morning.

01:15:21.79
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:15:23.80
Bill
It's in everyone's best interest that we, you know, whether it's going to a meeting or doing whatever we have to do, whatever we are doing for our sobriety is for the betterment of everyone.

01:15:32.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:34.33
Bill
And I don't just mean our family, but fucking everyone.

01:15:34.35
Mike
Yup. Right. two Yeah.

01:15:37.83
Bill
This goddamn dude and his dogs, the fact that I'm sober is better for him.

01:15:39.33
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, man, if you were drinking, it would have been all kinds of fucked up.

01:15:45.84
Bill
Oh my God.

01:15:46.28
Mike
Right.

01:15:46.52
Bill
and

01:15:46.91
Mike
Right. and And you're not just dry either. It's not that you're just, you know, not actively drinking, but you're sober. So, you know, not to let your emotions, which are bubbling up and churning in your stomach, but um you're not letting them out.

01:16:04.64
Mike
Cause you know, that's not a good thing to do.

01:16:05.13
Bill
Right?

01:16:06.68
Mike
That's not the right thing to do. The next straight thing to do. Yeah.

01:16:10.56
Bill
Yeah, and i don't even I don't even know what, because I think that somehow accidentally I ran across the, because what they are is they're black screen videos on YouTube.

01:16:21.14
Mike
Uh huh.

01:16:21.35
Bill
um And they're, you know, you can get them for, it's again, background noise, it's white noise, it's, but there are certain ones and I'm like, I don't even know what, why that popped into my head.

01:16:25.25
Mike
Right.

01:16:30.79
Bill
But I mean, literally the, um I'm in a studio, it's in the same fucking room.

01:16:33.62
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:35.65
Bill
and you know i just pulled it up on you know i got my chromecast hooked up i just pulled up fucking youtube looked it up and um you know a black screen it was a little bit with a black screen there's a little bit of a glow you know to it but like i don't fucking care um and it turned them turn the motherfucker up that's super loud

01:16:38.90
Mike
Right.

01:16:43.48
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:51.07
Bill
You know, but it was supposed to run for it says the video ran for eight hours I mean i'm not sleeping for more than like six and a half or whatever it is And um, you know, it was by the time my my alarm went off It was you know at the main screens this fucking because it's a roku tv.

01:16:56.94
Mike
Sure.

01:17:04.65
Bill
So it's this fucking purple screen I'm like jesus christ, you know, but I I got to sleep.

01:17:05.40
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:09.91
Bill
I could hear the barking a little bit in the background Um, but i'm like fuck it, you know thunderstorms and ocean sounds there we go It was I I got to sleep, you know, but um

01:17:10.40
Mike
Out.

01:17:14.30
Mike
Out.

01:17:20.94
Bill
Yeah, just did I again specific stubborn things that I could say this is what I'm stubborn about I guess that the easiest way and you said it and you know, I was kind of seconding that motion is yeah, we've we have our ways, you know and um Hopefully that those ways are not I don't think we're you know out there harming people with our ways anymore.

01:17:33.85
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:17:40.07
Mike
Right. Right.

01:17:40.41
Bill
So um hopefully our our ways are good ways and

01:17:40.88
Mike
Right.

01:17:44.25
Mike
Yeah. Well, that's just it. We found new ways and we're going to be fucking stubborn with these new ways because they fucking work.

01:17:51.14
Bill
right exactly that's that's that's a goddamn good point yeah yeah but we're what we're doing you ought to be thankful we're doing all these things you people just kidding just kidding just kidding okay so this is this is a weird question and i i don't even know how this question is going to go but um

01:17:54.88
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:59.16
Mike
fur fur fur Right.

01:18:10.51
Bill
I all the time on podcasts and on the radio and all these different things. Have you heard of, um, I can think of it, uh, better help. Okay. There better help is like this sponsor.

01:18:20.87
Bill
That's ah it's like this podcast sponsored say it's an online therapy group.

01:18:23.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:24.38
Bill
Okay.

01:18:24.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:25.17
Bill
So it's better help, better help, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this different stuff.

01:18:25.18
Mike
yay Yeah. Yeah.

01:18:27.50
Bill
You always hear people on podcasts, everyone's in therapy.

01:18:28.06
Mike
Uh huh.

01:18:30.17
Bill
It's like the thing they do with therapy. And then, you know, I, I. it thought about it. And I mean, I've never really said, goddamn, I should go see a therapist, you know. um But then I thought about the question, I'm like, let's at least talk about this.

01:18:42.16
Bill
So do you think um for you, and I'll answer the same question, do you think therapy would be of any benefit to you at let's say right now today, for any not that you got, I'm not going to speak for you just saying do you think it'd be of any benefit to you any type of a therapy type of thing?

01:18:57.60
Mike
Right. Not today, no. Oh.

01:19:04.46
Bill
Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

01:19:06.12
Mike
Yeah, not today. I don't have any issues. um And, you know, I mean, you know, AA is has been likened to group therapy and in a sense it is, absolutely, um peers, which is good.

01:19:16.39
Bill
Right.

01:19:20.62
Mike
That that absolutely um is beneficial to me. um I've got opinions on therapists. Uh, you know, ah most of them are fucking nuts and have huge problems themselves. And that's why they went into that field. Um, that's trash. Just, uh, you know, it's and all anecdotal, anecdotal evidence, but, um, yeah, it's, I, everyone I've ever known, um, they're pretty fucked up people. Um,

01:19:52.55
Mike
And so yes, an individual one-on-one thing with this other person who's got their own issues and decided they wanted to focus on someone else's issues with their life. um No thanks. But yeah, you know, the group therapy, peer therapy, I think is hugely beneficial. it It's been proven. That's what AA is, man. It's one drunk helping another. We've got this problem.

01:20:17.09
Mike
um We found a solution. Let's share it. We started off with that shit ah so yeah, you know, I mean and I understand the benefit of Therapy going to see someone and and talking about your problems and and working them out and sharing them and Problem shared is a problem cut in half. It doesn't matter who if it is. Um Yeah, but I mean if you I think for any problem that I have, um I need someone with the exact same problem who worked it out first.

01:20:50.68
Bill
Right.

01:20:50.88
Mike
Otherwise, it's it's worthless. you know um I mean, there's a lot of drug and alcohol counselors out there that are not addicts and alcoholics. There are.

01:21:01.07
Bill
Right.

01:21:01.65
Mike
And i I think they're fucking worthless because what the hell are they going to do? They don't know anything.

01:21:05.75
Bill
Right.

01:21:05.91
Mike
They read a book. Good for you. You know, I read books too. I know things about, I know things about things. Um, so, you know, but the only solution to my big fucking problem, I needed somebody else that had the same problem.

01:21:14.59
Bill
Right.

01:21:20.63
Mike
So I don't know. Probably didn't answer any of that fucking question, but no, I don't need any therapy because my life is fucking wonderful. And so am I.

01:21:32.18
Bill
the way I do things is is good for me.

01:21:35.71
Mike
That's right.

01:21:36.99
Bill
No, but I mean, you did, you did answer. it You just expanded on it, explained, ah and i think it was I think it was good because I i wasn't sure, um and I didn't want it to be a goofy question, but I thought it was, ah if nothing else, kind of a valid question because it's not that I thought about, know.

01:21:50.89
Mike
Sure.

01:21:51.48
Bill
uh, you know, going to see a therapist, but I mean, you know, again, you see all these different people do it and people talk about benefits. And then I'd tell you the two, two things and along the lines of everything you said, I agree with 100% to think about when one uncle John died and you know, mom called around.

01:21:57.25
Mike
sure

01:22:05.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:05.95
Bill
She's like, we're all going to go to the, cause it was this group center that she went to the grief group ah with, with Larry.

01:22:10.56
Mike
Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Survivors. Yeah.

01:22:13.64
Bill
Yeah. And then she had this whole grief group with, you know, when Larry died, which was wonderful for her.

01:22:16.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:18.08
Bill
She needed it.

01:22:18.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:18.72
Bill
It did a lot for her.

01:22:19.21
Mike
Right.

01:22:19.56
Bill
And I mean, ah those people were remained her friends for years.

01:22:20.45
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:23.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:23.37
Bill
And she's like, okay, we're, we're all gonna go in and we're gonna go talk to these people. And I said, no, I'm not. yeah And I said, I think you should.

01:22:30.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:32.89
Bill
I said, those are, those are your people.

01:22:33.01
Mike
but hu right see yeahp yeah who Right.

01:22:35.49
Bill
And I said, my people are in Cleveland. And I said, I'm going to go talk to them. And I said, no no offense. But I'm like, i that that will not work for me. you know And i said I said, I need to go talk to talkti the people that understand me and understand what I'm dealing with because I'm this person. you know But I said, do I think you should go talk to them? Fucking A, right, I do.

01:22:57.46
Bill
you know

01:22:57.51
Mike
Yep.

01:22:58.41
Bill
um And that's what I did. I remember I led not too long after Uncle John died and I talked about it.

01:23:02.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:23:03.13
Bill
I and i i said the fact, I'm like, well, you know what? He just became a people, places, and things.

01:23:08.51
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:09.93
Bill
And that was like, well, because I told the story. It was fucking raw still. you know It was only a couple of weeks after after it happened.

01:23:13.53
Mike
he Right.

01:23:15.66
Bill
I'm like, ah that's the only thing I could come up with. I mean, i I had to place him in the box of people, places, and things. It's not not a fucking thing I could do about it, you know?

01:23:22.10
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:23:24.67
Bill
um but So the other thing, so that's number one with that. I agree with all that stuff. And the other thing I think about is like what I was saying before, which I hadn't planned on kind of going back to with this question, but feeling that, you know, we've gotten ourselves to the point where we're leading ah relatively decent lives.

01:23:41.79
Bill
I don't think there's any glaring shit going on.

01:23:42.06
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:23:44.58
Bill
And you know, quite honestly, not from a joking standpoint, I know you'd fucking tell me, but on the other standpoint, I would want you to tell me because I don't want to go through life. If I got some shit going on, there's a booger hanging from my a life, booger hanging from my nose.

01:23:59.10
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:59.18
Bill
I want my friend Mike to tell me, dude, you got a fucking life booger hanging over there. Let's fix this. You know, you wipe my nose.

01:24:06.51
Mike
Right.

01:24:07.20
Bill
No, you would you don't need to wipe my nose. It's okay. But I want you to tell me that. But so then here's the other thing that I thought about it when I, and it's suspended back my head when I wrote down the question is things are okay.

01:24:19.97
Bill
You know, I don't have any, like you said today, I don't think I need therapy.

01:24:21.14
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:23.97
Bill
If I go in and talk to a therapist, they're going to dig some shit up that I probably don't want to fucking talk about, you know, and it's not that I don't want to talk about it, but it's not a problem in my life.

01:24:29.85
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:24:35.28
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:35.54
Bill
Do I need to go to a therapist and bring more problems into my life? No fucking thank you, you know,

01:24:40.85
Mike
Yeah. That muck has settled. It's fine. The water is clear. I don't need to go stir it up.

01:24:48.14
Bill
because you know what there's there's no doubt and every once in a while I get the flashes back I mean I wasn't I wasn't beaten as a child I wasn't abused I wasn't anything like that was there verbal abuse was there mental abuse from you know I mean I had parents the same as everyone else did so my answer to that is yes okay

01:25:01.87
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:25:04.73
Bill
Both my mom and my dad fucked with my head for years under different circumstances, but it is what it is.

01:25:08.05
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:25:11.14
Bill
But here's the thing, Alcoholics Anonymous taught me how to make peace with that.

01:25:15.22
Mike
That's right.

01:25:15.37
Bill
even after Even after the one motherfucker was not only dead but burned up and sprinkled in a cemetery, I was able to find my peace with him.

01:25:19.19
Mike
Uh huh. Yup.

01:25:23.65
Mike
Mm hmm. yeah

01:25:24.76
Bill
And then then the other one that just passed away two years ago, I got to make my amends with her, you know? And in fix all that shit. Did I fix it?

01:25:33.41
Mike
Yep.

01:25:33.72
Bill
No, did it? Did everything even itself out? And again, I like how you put that. The water calmed, nobody's at the bottom of the lake stirring up all the fucking muck, you know?

01:25:42.97
Mike
yep

01:25:43.78
Bill
So that's just the honest to God truth. I'm like, do I really? No, I don't. I mean, if I had something glaring that I'm like, okay, UAA people, cause i you know, yo I love that saying you people, UAA people can handle this.

01:25:54.21
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:25:56.41
Bill
So I'm going to go talk to a therapist. First of all, I would make sure it was somebody that had a background like we do.

01:26:01.33
Mike
Right now.

01:26:02.23
Bill
um I don't want to talk to a fucking normie. I just don't know offense to fucking normies, but you don't, you don't get me.

01:26:04.66
Mike
Right. Yeah, right. But yeah, you know, yeah exactly. You don't understand.

01:26:11.36
Bill
Okay. You don't get me. So, but if something came up, I'm, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I do, I do not want to go to a therapist and say, okay, let's start from here and let's figure out, let's bring all this shit to the service.

01:26:15.40
Mike
No.

01:26:20.37
Mike
Uh huh.

01:26:22.30
Bill
We're going to unpack all your stuff.

01:26:24.06
Mike
Uh, no, it's packed and it's put away and it's, there's a padlock on that door.

01:26:24.18
Bill
No, you're, no, you're fucking not.

01:26:28.68
Bill
Yeah.

01:26:30.43
Mike
It's fine.

01:26:31.53
Bill
And I've got a relatively, I'm gonna call it comfortable life these days.

01:26:36.47
Mike
see

01:26:37.04
Bill
you know It's not without a little bit of stress.

01:26:37.56
Mike
Right.

01:26:40.02
Bill
It's not without a little bit of worry.

01:26:40.24
Mike
Sure.

01:26:41.34
Bill
It's not without all these different things, but that's what everyone deals with. you know you know just in But the same thing.

01:26:44.15
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:46.59
Bill
you know um Okay, let's let's flip it on the other end. Because I just said, everyone's got parents of either one of my kids. I mean, I fucked things up with my daughter. you know we We talked about that story.

01:26:54.35
Mike
Sure. Mm hmm.

01:26:56.70
Bill
um I didn't have the, thankfully was, um, Derek, I think was shielded from a lot of that, but I'm sure he still got some shit.

01:27:02.58
Mike
Right.

01:27:04.60
Bill
If either one of them said that, Hey, I want to go to a therapist and talk about this shit, I'd be like, fucking more power to you, man.

01:27:04.64
Mike
Right.

01:27:09.03
Mike
Yep.

01:27:10.83
Bill
And you know what? You don't have to tell me a goddamn thing. I don't need to know.

01:27:13.85
Mike
Right.

01:27:14.11
Bill
I'm never going to ask you, but, um, I know I caused, I caused some muck.

01:27:18.05
Mike
Nope.

01:27:20.08
Bill
I know I did.

01:27:21.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:21.34
Bill
you know So hey, if you want to do something better, better yourselves, God, please, fucking please, you know do what you got to do. you know Or if you've got questions, fucking talk to me.

01:27:27.27
Mike
Yep.

01:27:29.12
Bill
Let me try to but try to you know clear some of that, sell some of that muck that I cost.

01:27:29.58
Mike
Right.

01:27:33.30
Mike
Mm hmm. Absolutely.

01:27:37.95
Bill
So I don't know. I, and again, I, it was a weird question when I wrote it down. Like, I don't even know. I didn't, cause I didn't want to but fucking make a joke out of it, but I'm like, ah, fuck it. Let's just, whatever. Let's just talk about it and see what happens.

01:27:50.90
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:52.48
Bill
But yeah, so I think we're the same. We're on the same mindset. Nothing really glaring as of, as of today's date. What day is it today? Oh yeah, that's right. October 18th. Okay.

01:28:00.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:01.79
Bill
yeah All right, so what you know what? I was going to say, what else? fuck it there Does there have to be anything else? Do we have to? Could we just end abruptly right now and you could just do your thing?

01:28:11.58
Mike
Yeah, I believe...

01:28:12.10
Bill
Or you got more?

01:28:12.52
Mike
ah Oh no, I got nothing.

01:28:13.32
Bill
You got more stuff?

01:28:14.74
Mike
I got a baseball game to watch. I got... ah

01:28:17.96
Bill
I could tell. I lost you about 15 minutes ago, I think. There must be.

01:28:21.20
Mike
Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm, you know, try it. Plus it's been a hell of a long week. Um, I had some, I had a couple of that pretty much 14 hour days and yeah.

01:28:32.74
Bill
Oh, shit, really? Wow.

01:28:33.83
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. It's bad. It's been, it's been a week. I had some moments, but it's fine. You know what? Guess what? There's ah all in the past right now.

01:28:41.71
Bill
Right.

01:28:42.31
Mike
I'm not having any moments.

01:28:44.22
Bill
Right.

01:28:44.83
Mike
Yeah. Other than missing the fucking game.

01:28:45.22
Bill
Okay. Well, you know what?

01:28:46.81
Mike
Ha.

01:28:48.71
Bill
You got about another, I don't know, what does it take us another two, three minutes to get the fuck out of here? And then you just gotta, all you gotta do is come up with a title and a picture and get you on your way.

01:28:56.92
Mike
Absolutely. All righty.

01:28:58.19
Bill
All right, man, do your thing.

01:28:58.88
Mike
Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. So always be kind to each other, be good to each other and go out and do something nice for somebody else this week.

01:29:10.81
Mike
And don't tell anybody you did it. Now it's time from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time till the ends of the earth, always and eternally fuck you. And now it's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. Keep fucking off forever. Bye.

01:29:44.04
Bill
I just gotta tell you this real, real quick. So G texted me the other day.

01:29:47.57
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:47.85
Bill
um She said, I just listened. She listened to the Dr. Sarah episode, said it was amazing, blah, blah, blah.

01:29:51.11
Mike
Uh huh.

01:29:52.80
Bill
And then she's like, I love Mike's fuck off and my shout out at the end and and the fuck off song.

01:29:53.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:58.13
Mike
Right.

01:30:00.75
Bill
So it was just, it obviously been a while since she listened, but yeah, so I just wanted to pass that along.

01:30:03.24
Mike
right

01:30:05.21
Bill
Oh, she said something along the lines of, I don't know, like we were talking about, some sometimes it's just, you know,

01:30:05.75
Mike
Cool.

01:30:11.46
Bill
just do it enough, enough as it takes or whatever it takes that day to just stay sober.

01:30:11.67
Mike
Mm

01:30:15.18
Bill
So she said that was, she really appreciated that.

01:30:15.67
Mike
hmm.

01:30:17.60
Bill
But, uh, yeah, but, uh, yeah, so, all right.

01:30:18.01
Mike
Cool.

01:30:20.49
Bill
And, uh, go watch the, the Deans or the, whatever the fucks they're called and yank me Deans motherfuckers.

01:30:23.77
Mike
Yeah, the dns and the Yankees.

01:30:30.71
Mike
That's right.

01:30:31.87
Bill
All right. Bye. Oh, wait, wait, up wait back up.

01:30:34.86
Mike
Bye. Why? Wait, why?

01:30:36.19
Bill
I love, I love, I love you.

01:30:37.09
Mike
Huh?

01:30:37.69
Bill
I love you brother.

01:30:38.34
Mike
Yeah. I love you too, man.

01:30:40.78
Bill
Bye.

01:30:41.56
Mike
Bye.