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Nov. 16, 2024
SoberNotMature - Episode 143 (Filtering Out Our Irritants)
Woohoo! It's Mike and Bill again. Back for more nonsense this week.
Mike started out with his reading and it was about love. Yes, love. The ability for us to actually know love, experience it and offer it to others. And the fact that it shows us that there are powers out there that are greater than us. It was a good talk.
Then we chatted about preparing for the Holidays and staying sober, a sober get together, being around drunk people, criticism and judging (it can be a good thing), sensitivity, feelings, a fun insult and arrest stories.
And we shared a news story about a hiker that tried to blame a bear for a guys death. There were a few flaws in his plan and we had some fun with it.
Enjoy the episode.
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Transcript
00:00:01.48
Bill
All right everyone, welcome once again to another episode of sober, not mature, and tell you one thing, I am not William Moyers, are you?
00:00:12.77
Mike
Well, I'm not, no, I'm not. I'm even farther away.
00:00:15.84
Bill
all right we're
00:00:16.83
Mike
At least you're a William.
00:00:18.10
Bill
I, you know what I am, I was gonna, I was thinking that and I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not, I don't need to, let me make this about me for once, for once.
00:00:24.04
Mike
Ah.
00:00:26.88
Bill
But um no, William Moyers will not be joining us tonight. And I know surely you can't be serious.
00:00:30.03
Mike
this Don't call me Shirley. I am serious and don't call me Shirley.
00:00:35.95
Bill
God damn it. I thought I was setting you up there.
00:00:37.00
Mike
Yeah.
00:00:38.23
Bill
You're just, are you tired? Is, are you okay? Are you okay?
00:00:41.24
Mike
I, I, I'm wonderful.
00:00:43.76
Bill
Yeah, just fuck it around. But so, yeah, we got a got an email from his assistant and actually a email forwarded from him.
00:00:49.42
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:00:50.18
Bill
The reason is not important. He had a but he had a commitment that he could not, yeah, family stuff that he had to take care of.
00:00:53.73
Mike
Family stuff. Right.
00:00:56.82
Bill
So um we understand, granted, yes, we've had him scheduled a few times. It is what it is. um He happens to be kind of a big deal. He's got a lot of things going on, ah you know, personal and personally and professionally.
00:01:04.09
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:01:08.51
Bill
So
00:01:09.05
Mike
Yeah. Well, I mean, two things, right? So, I mean, as I wrote you in the email back when you sent me forwarded me all the stuff, I said, you know, Hey man, you know, it's family. We were taught very early on, we got sober to be there for our families, you know, all those to make up for all those years that we weren't there for them and we're causing them harm in one way or another. So we completely understand. Yes. Family and commitments and all that stuff comes before all this stuff.
00:01:37.79
Mike
And, but the, but the best part was his email. He's looking forward to consummating this, which I just, I thought that was wonderful.
00:01:47.11
Bill
Yeah, I, I did. I saw that too. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah okay, so he's using big words and it sounds funny, but no, you know, the, the thing of it is quite honestly is, is Mike and I, and I don't think we said it this time, but all along the way, cause we first got approached by them back in shit June or July, something like that.
00:01:53.58
Mike
hey
00:02:03.16
Mike
Yeah, it's been right. Yeah.
00:02:05.53
Bill
it's it's coming It's been at ah at least four or five months it at least.
00:02:08.56
Mike
Right.
00:02:09.93
Bill
you know and First of all, and I know we've said it on here, why the fuck us? We're not going to tell them anything about us. Don't listen to anything. Just come on here. We just want to get you on here. you know just Just come in and don't act like you've never heard us before.
00:02:21.36
Bill
Hopefully you haven't. um you know But then again, you know when when we've had these postponements like this, that's what it is. It's ah it's just a postponement.
00:02:28.26
Mike
he
00:02:28.52
Bill
It might be after the first of the year, but it doesn't matter. um But we've kind of joked around, but seriously, he's not just said, you know what? I don't need to go on with these fucking yahoos.
00:02:38.11
Mike
Right.
00:02:38.87
Bill
you know i don't need I don't need to.
00:02:38.97
Mike
Right.
00:02:40.36
Bill
you know And he does it.
00:02:40.57
Mike
Right. No, I mean, again, he's, he does not, absolutely not. And, and he's looking forward to consummating with us and I'm looking forward to it too.
00:02:48.46
Bill
right?
00:02:51.46
Bill
Yep, we're gonna maybe after the first of year. So ah basically, what we're gonna do is that I mean, I don't want to put pressure, we don't want to put pressure on him. ah Whenever it works, we're not going to probably not going to promote it the week of like we do.
00:02:59.60
Mike
Right.
00:03:02.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:03:03.50
Bill
I mean, you'll see it in the in the episode notes and stuff like that when the episode is released, whenever he's on, it's not like he's just going to show up and we're not going to, you know, have him on the episode, you know, cover or anything like that.
00:03:10.78
Mike
okay Right.
00:03:13.57
Bill
But Um, I think it'll be easier than trying to, you know, put it up, take it down, put it up, take it down and trying to explain, fuck it. He's going to show up one day and we're going to have a wonderful conversation.
00:03:22.21
Mike
Yes, we will.
00:03:22.60
Bill
So, but on the other side, and this is more, can you believe this more William Moyers?
00:03:28.47
Mike
me All right.
00:03:29.35
Bill
So. So the the Sober Curator, which we're a part of, and Elise, who is the the founder of the Sober Curator, they're hosting an event with him this coming Thursday, yep, at Hazleton Betty Ford Bellevue.
00:03:33.97
Mike
Right.
00:03:40.74
Mike
Really?
00:03:44.65
Mike
Oh, cool.
00:03:45.07
Bill
um It's in the Overlake Medical Pavilion building on the Overlake Hospital Campus, um Thursday, November 21st. This coming Thursday, 12.30 p.m. to 2 p.m.
00:03:55.23
Bill
that is in Minneapolis. ah It's a free event. featuring William Moyers, A Light Lunch, a talk with William Moyers, a Q and A hosted by the Soviet Curator founder, Elise Bryson, and book signing slash sales.
00:04:06.89
Mike
Nice.
00:04:09.78
Mike
Cool.
00:04:10.00
Bill
Raffle Furs signed copies of the new book, Broken and, or Broken Open, I'm sorry, and his first book, Broken, are gonna happen too. So, um I don't know. I mean, if you if if anyone that's listening to us happens to be in in Minneapolis, if I had nothing to do, I'd drive to Minneapolis and go, okay, a little, listen to you here.
00:04:21.59
Mike
Right. Right.
00:04:26.74
Bill
You can't get away from me, I'm here. I have a microphone in my car now, I'm just kidding. But yeah, so I saw that on the Sober Curator does a weekly email and I saw it in there and I had given Elisa a heads up that we were gonna do it this week and then obviously let her know, because basically what you know the Sober Curator is gonna promote our episode, that you know the same as they've done with Dr. Sarah and that sort of thing whenever we get him on here.
00:04:48.59
Mike
right
00:04:50.40
Bill
But um but yeah, so either way, if anyone out there in Sober.mature listening land is gonna be in Minneapolis on Thursday, stopped by the Betty Ford
00:04:55.85
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:05:01.25
Bill
Hazel to Betty Ford, Bellevue, ever i did so I did so good for a minute.
00:05:04.97
Mike
Wow. Use your words.
00:05:08.19
Bill
Over Lake Medical Pavilion building on the Over Lake Hospital campus. If you don't understand the words that are coming out of my mouth, go to thesobercurator.com, look up William Moyers, you'll be able to see it on there.
00:05:20.85
Bill
So so there, yeah.
00:05:22.27
Mike
Cool. Nice.
00:05:24.20
Bill
But and i ah I didn't even ask Elise how that how that came up, but I know that there is there's a couple of people that are um part of the the sober curator that I think have you know loose ties with Hazilden and have done events with them, you know not necessarily.
00:05:24.23
Mike
Very cool.
00:05:37.18
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:05:40.46
Bill
And I don't know if the sober curator has, but um there It's not just us with the books and and that sort of thing. There's other people ah within the Sober Curator, I think that in the recovery community that we are a part of there um that have you know ties to it.
00:05:50.24
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:05:53.38
Bill
So I don't know how it came up, but you know kind of a cool thing. so
00:05:56.08
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, if you're over in Brainerd, drive over to the Twin Cities.
00:06:02.77
Bill
Yeah, you know what? Even if you're god if you're if you're up there in the, like, Eau Claire or Chippewa Falls, you know?
00:06:07.24
Mike
Right. he Yeah.
00:06:10.83
Bill
it's It's not that far, eh? It's just ah just across the river.
00:06:13.71
Mike
Right.
00:06:14.03
Bill
You don't have that big river.
00:06:14.82
Mike
Oh, oh, hey there.
00:06:17.35
Bill
That big river, the Mississippi, yeah. Careful this time of year, it gets a little windy.
00:06:22.62
Mike
Right.
00:06:22.77
Bill
Windy and cold.
00:06:23.81
Mike
Cold.
00:06:25.37
Bill
ah i know i've I know I've said this before, but I was in Eau Claire Chippewa Falls in January once for a holiday party for the company I was working for that was based out of Eau Claire.
00:06:30.59
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:06:35.73
Bill
And I mean, it's it's not even fucking funny how cold it is. It's it's great. Well, you, again, you peep you were in Michigan, I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that, yeah.
00:06:41.71
Mike
I have, I was right. Yeah. In the UP, right? And I've been up there for work and stuff too at that time of year. Yes.
00:06:49.01
Bill
Oh, yeah, it's ah it's brutal.
00:06:49.02
Mike
It's fucking cold.
00:06:51.79
Bill
We got out and it was this so it was a cool little light bar supper club that we had the party at. And you know so we we came from Germantown, drove up to, um and again, it's January. So I mean, it's cold, but I think, I don't know if we stayed overnight the the night before, but either way, I mean, it's 10, 20 degrees colder than it was in in the Milwaukee area.
00:07:07.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:07:09.43
Bill
And then you know probably another 10 to 15 degrees colder, which you know half hour or fucking north or whatever it was.
00:07:14.52
Mike
Right.
00:07:14.91
Bill
and yeah you get out of the car to walk through the parking lot and I mean you're just crunching you know I mean the snow is just it's it's so fucking cold.
00:07:18.64
Mike
Yep.
00:07:23.41
Bill
yeah But anyhow enough you know if anyone I'll complain about the cold all the fucking time because I hate being cold fucking hate it um I think I don't think I don't think I complained at all about the heat this summer and I was out it in it I was doing shit granted I'm not out there working on a you know a fucking roof or anything like that and you know don't hate me for choosing a job that you know I get to be climate controlled in but I
00:07:28.15
Mike
Right.
00:07:40.92
Mike
right
00:07:45.69
Mike
Well.
00:07:46.97
Bill
i I don't complain about heat anymore I just don't after it was so fucking cold a handful of years ago and as much as I fucking hate it ah I'll deal with the heat man.
00:07:54.59
Mike
All right.
00:07:55.04
Bill
I don't don't like the cold My old bones like the cold yeah Speaking of old bones.
00:08:02.25
Mike
Hi.
00:08:02.60
Bill
Hi Mike I'm guessing that you well, hopefully I mean, do you have a reading because I know that you had enough of a heads up It's not like mr.
00:08:08.13
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:11.70
Bill
Moyers canceled tonight. So
00:08:13.32
Mike
Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. I got one.
00:08:15.69
Bill
Okay.
00:08:15.73
Mike
I got one. Um, yeah. Shit. Let's see. Um, yeah. Yeah. All right. So, um, this is from, uh, keep it simple from today, actually.
00:08:28.55
Mike
Now I'm looking at it. Um, um Yeah read it this morning and whatever and um you know, I read it again tonight because I was kind of flipping around and looking for some shit to read and um You know, we've talked about on here plenty of times I'm an atheist right, you know, and I'm not the only one and I know people ah Struggle with the higher power thing. I know I did and I know it's an issue for a lot of people especially in early recovery So I thought this would be a good reading to have a little discussion about
00:09:03.51
Mike
So yeah, here we go.
00:09:03.66
Bill
Awesome.
00:09:05.73
Mike
ah November 15th. The best way to know God is to love many things. Vincent van Gogh. He was Dutch, so I'm pronouncing it that way. ah Let's see.
00:09:17.25
Mike
um Now that we're in recovery, we're learning to love people. We're learning to love nature. We're learning to love new ideas about life. The result, we love the way we feel now that we're taking care of ourselves. Is our higher power really so close? Can we really find our higher power just by loving many things? Yes.
00:09:43.05
Mike
When we love, we wake up the part of us that is part of all of creation, our spirit. We really come to life when we love. Prayer for the day, higher power, remind me that you are near when I love, someone or something. The energy of love comes from you. Action for the day. I will list three things I love that help me know my higher power is near me.
00:10:13.29
Bill
So three things, that was, there was a lot of love in there.
00:10:17.13
Mike
There was.
00:10:18.75
Bill
um But you know what, I've heard all you need is love. I think that's, I heard that somewhere before, and which is, which is party.
00:10:21.82
Mike
yeah Right. I, I hear it in my head every time I go to a fucking meeting.
00:10:27.95
Bill
I was going to say a part of your story. So I'm guessing that we'll, we'll get further in into that. Cause I always loved that story to the, to this day and how it's still part of you. But so list lists three things that, what was that?
00:10:35.66
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:10:39.62
Mike
List three things that you love that help you know your higher power is near you.
00:10:49.88
Bill
Okay, so um I'm gonna throw that over to you, Mike, to start out with.
00:10:53.32
Mike
All right.
00:10:53.91
Bill
So what what do you think? I mean, whether it's one, two, three, or, you know, I mean, just whatever.
00:10:58.55
Mike
Right. Right, exactly. oh You know, ah well, there's people, there are some people, some people have to qualify that, um that I love. And um that's absolutely part of ah knowing that there's a power greater than myself, the phrasing I like best.
00:11:19.69
Bill
Right.
00:11:19.92
Mike
um You know, um I'm sitting here tonight before we're doing this thing for the last couple of hours, listening to some good, nasty rock and roll. um um My buddies, Adam and Max, Music to Break Things By, are filling in on one of the other college stations. um They've done this a couple times recently. They've been back doing it. So tonight was one of the nights, so I got to enjoy some Music to Break Things By, which doesn't happen very often anymore.
00:11:47.93
Bill
Right.
00:11:48.04
Mike
ah So yes, I love that, love music. um You know, um shit, there's there's probably a hundred things I could sit here and list, I won't. um But yes, you know, there are things that I love today, truly love, um that debt bring me closer to powers greater than myself.
00:12:11.55
Bill
Right, yeah, and that's, I mean, that's kind of a, I don't know, and again, maybe from the atheist or even for me, like from the you know the agnostic standpoint to think that, okay, is there, I mean, I know there's a power agreement with me, we've we've established all that, but then, you know I guess I've never looked at it that way.
00:12:19.63
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:12:27.61
Bill
I read this you know this morning and you know obviously keep it simple as one that I not only read, but you know out of the sometimes out of the four things that I read, um a lot of times that one I post a lot about or from that one,
00:12:29.43
Mike
Right.
00:12:40.65
Mike
whom Right.
00:12:40.92
Bill
on Instagram because it's it is it's a little bit more generic than some of the other ones you know usually not as godless or godless it's more it's more godless there's there's less god not more god um yeah jesus i had a side note here on that a couple of days ago whatever it was maybe it was a week or so ago once again 24 hour book i think i counted nine i'm like ah every other word seemed like fucking god god god god which is fine but i'm like jesus christ man there's a lot of fucking god in here
00:12:48.93
Mike
of Right. Right.
00:13:03.45
Mike
here Right. h
00:13:11.14
Bill
um But I mean, you mentioned a couple of things, you know, people, and I take a look at, you know, the relationships in in my life and um the opportunities that I have as a human being, um the ability that I have to, ah you know, maybe look into these these dark waters that are going out there and in the universe right now or world or whatever it is.
00:13:29.24
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:13:30.75
Bill
And you know, not only keep my sanity but stay sober in the process um and I know for a fucking fact I mean keeping my cool when somebody pisses me the fuck off you know especially in a work situation you know because I can't I can't fucking go off on somebody in in a personal situation I don't want to be that guy anymore but I can
00:13:35.38
Mike
Right.
00:13:41.86
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Right.
00:13:49.98
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure. Oh, yeah.
00:13:52.51
Bill
I mean, there's there's not as long as I'm not beating somebody up and breaking the law, quote unquote, you know I can and mouth off to people, but you know I don't wanna be that person.
00:13:57.08
Mike
Hmm.
00:14:01.09
Bill
So none of those things, none of the things that you mentioned, which I agree with, none of the things that I just mentioned um would have been possible, at least not on a regular basis for me 15 years ago before i I stumbled into this thing that we call sobriety.
00:14:01.65
Mike
Right.
00:14:16.18
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:14:17.70
Bill
And it's a higher power thing, man, because it's fucking sure not me. We've said that plenty of times, right?
00:14:22.80
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. And I mean, another reason um you posted the Abraham Lincoln quote today. I saw that.
00:14:29.66
Bill
Yep.
00:14:30.62
Mike
Yeah, right. Which is, ah you know, both of us, we love that one. Um, if you don't know it, Abraham Lincoln said, uh, when I do good, I feel good.
00:14:36.32
Bill
Yep.
00:14:39.77
Mike
When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion. It was a quote from old honest Abe. And um yeah, you know, I i actually used it, a buddy of mine in my home group, a couple of years ago, he's actually got a couple more years than us sober.
00:14:46.29
Bill
yep
00:14:56.16
Mike
um And he was really having trouble, you know, a couple of years ago, right? So he was probably 13 years sober, something like that.
00:15:04.82
Bill
Right.
00:15:04.93
Mike
And he was struggling and he reached out to me because, you know, ah people i'm I'm not quiet about my atheism and um for a reason, um not because, you know, I'm i'm making not anymore that I'm making fun of religious people or godly people or any of that.
00:15:21.64
Mike
I don't, you know, I i actually and I've said this before, you know, I'm a little envious of them because I think they have it a little easier in this process um having that conception of a power greater than themselves already baked into their cake. um you know I had to work a little harder to find something and make this thing work for me the way it's supposed to work.
00:15:43.48
Bill
Right.
00:15:43.50
Mike
Um, you know, so anyway, but yes, so, um, he reached out to me and, and, um, I, I sent him that quote. It was like, you know, the simplest thing we talked and stuff after that, but he, uh, he reached out to me. I think it was a text and, um, or, you know, whatever messenger or some nonsense, something through my phone in writing.
00:16:03.85
Mike
Right. It wasn't an actual in person conversation or an actual phone call. Um, and, um, I, I found that and send it to him and it just like fucking, it eased his, his mind right away.
00:16:17.52
Mike
It was very useful and powerful. Um, and it is, it's useful and powerful. Thanks Abe.
00:16:23.54
Bill
right
00:16:23.69
Mike
Um, you know, so I, again, that read that today, um, and, and read this this morning and went as speak a topic for us to discuss.
00:16:34.52
Bill
you know what and And I agree, and you said one thing I kind of want to go back to that, you know so I thought that was interesting that you said that, that people you know people that came into, let's say, whether it be you know AA or um just recovery in general, you know looking for that that higher power,
00:16:46.22
Mike
Mm hmm. Right? Mm hmm.
00:16:50.87
Bill
um You know already having a conception. So, you know in we we saw Well, and we still do, you know, obviously see people that have gone two different directions with that, you know people that have felt wronged You know by God and then yeah and then struggled with it coming in because you know, well God you fucked me over why should I believe in you now type of thing and then you know, you got other people that had this solid relationship and then
00:16:59.68
Mike
Mm hmm. Oh, yeah, right. There's a lot of that. Mm hmm.
00:17:15.57
Bill
um they found a separation though. So here's the church God over here.
00:17:19.07
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:17:19.53
Bill
And then here's my AA and my sobriety God.
00:17:22.29
Mike
Right.
00:17:22.53
Bill
And then like you came in with not having that, you know, having no no concept or knowing that in your heart, that's not it.
00:17:26.67
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:17:29.72
Bill
I didn't i didn't know what the fuck to think, you know. um But, you know, the thing of it is kind of on on your end, I feel like I kind of had also, like you like you said, maybe the, for me, kind of the best of both worlds, because I didn't have any hate for a God or a higher power, but I also didn't have any um any true belief of whether there was or was not, you know?
00:17:42.67
Mike
Right. right
00:17:53.22
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:17:54.28
Bill
I came in literally, I was i was probably more of a cipher boy than you were.
00:17:58.98
Mike
Right.
00:17:59.65
Bill
Even though you identify as an atheist, I was probably just, and i but probably I was, I was existing.
00:18:02.10
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:18:05.79
Bill
I had no fucking conception. I'd been in a building before with you know people preaching and doing all that shit before, plenty of them.
00:18:11.21
Mike
Oh, sure. Yeah, me too.
00:18:14.08
Bill
But um you know I just, we it just wasn't a thing. you know I never found my place in it.
00:18:18.86
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:18:18.88
Bill
So um like I said, the main thing that we were told and whether it was Dan or Tony or somebody just saying that, just know it's not you.
00:18:28.19
Mike
Right.
00:18:28.29
Bill
um And then yeah, this is that Abraham Lincoln thing. I don't know. I think I found that that picture that I post every year, God, probably 12 years ago, 13 years ago, who knows?
00:18:38.27
Mike
Right.
00:18:39.21
Bill
I mean, a long time ago, but I don't know the first time I heard it.
00:18:42.96
Mike
Right.
00:18:44.14
Bill
I don't remember.
00:18:44.94
Mike
Yeah, i me neither. Right. It kind of seems like it's just kind of been around forever. You know, it's a sobriety thing anyway. Right.
00:18:52.66
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, uh, I'm, I'm going to say, I don't want to say I'm confident that I hadn't heard that prior to getting sober, but if I did, I know for a fucking fact, I didn't listen to it and I didn't, I didn't look at it and be like, Ooh, light bulb.
00:18:59.91
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. Sure. So, right. Didn't mean anything that right.
00:19:10.03
Bill
Right. but um So a couple of things I wrote down. um Obviously yeah being able to love many things. That was right in the beginning.
00:19:15.99
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:19:16.14
Bill
I think that was in the quote. um Love new ideas about life, part of all creation, and then the energy of of love.
00:19:24.87
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:19:25.73
Bill
you know And I guess the the only thing I'm gonna say, and I you know I brought this up before, and and this has only been, well, it's been since I've been sober, but now probably, maybe it's been seven or eight years ago, when I when i learned and realized, and we were talking about this ah plenty of times in episodes, but me realizing that I can love people and things on different levels, that you wanna talk about revelation, that was fucking huge for me, because I always affiliated love with romantic love.
00:19:50.42
Mike
Right.
00:19:54.30
Bill
you know And just a quick story back. And I don't even know if I ever told you this. um When we were growing up, I mean, mom, I guess I know she loved this. She always took care of us.
00:20:05.47
Bill
I never knew how. And I think Kathy will admit to the same thing or would say the same thing. We never realized until way after the fact when she told us how hard things were for her financially and everything else.
00:20:16.89
Bill
We didn't we didn't know that, which is you know to her credit, um you know we never really granted we wanted for things, but we never needed anything.
00:20:17.12
Mike
Mm-hmm, right, right Hmm right right
00:20:24.94
Bill
you know always had We always had our basic needs met, um and then some. you know But there was not, um no one in our family like said, I love you, fucking ever.
00:20:36.89
Bill
you know And the first time I remember, and boy, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. The first time I remember telling somebody I love them was um my daughter's mom.
00:20:46.95
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:20:47.14
Bill
And I was 17 years old.
00:20:49.58
Mike
Right.
00:20:50.25
Bill
You know, um because that was never, it just wasn't a thing. It even, those are things that we actually grew into and I think actually grew mom into Kathy and I, you know, over the years, you know, of saying that in, I mean, i always've I've always said it to my kids and and all that stuff.
00:21:01.87
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:21:06.67
Mike
Right.
00:21:07.00
Bill
And, you know, i'm my wives, because I get two of them, um you know, and to this day, I mean, shit, you and I say it at the end of every episode.
00:21:10.00
Mike
Now, diet.
00:21:15.63
Bill
And and I do, I mean it.
00:21:17.21
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:21:18.46
Bill
You know, And it's not just fucking fuck lip service thinking, hey, this would be a fucking cool way to end an episode.
00:21:23.37
Mike
Yeah.
00:21:24.17
Bill
Couple of couple of guys, yeah yeah.
00:21:24.59
Mike
Make us look good. a yeah Right.
00:21:27.78
Bill
Couple of guys saying, I love you, you know?
00:21:27.83
Mike
Right.
00:21:30.51
Bill
But um I don't know what just the, that that in itself realizing that I, I think what I'm just trying to say, and I don't really know, but it just that um I've learned how to to love exactly what this thing is saying.
00:21:41.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:21:42.24
Bill
I think I've learned that. I know I've learned that since I've been sober. I know for a fucking fact, you know?
00:21:45.57
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know and and I i like to you know the wording of you know that God's power, whatever, you know higher power, whatever it comes through, you know that's what love is.
00:21:58.11
Mike
It comes from that and it creates that. I mean, that's a big part of, know but I've talked about it, it's in my story and all that stuff. you know The first glimpse I had at power greater than myself was the love for my granddaughter.
00:22:13.36
Mike
you know She was two years old.
00:22:13.41
Bill
Right.
00:22:15.45
Mike
um And she would just look at me and God knows I didn't fucking deserve it at that point. You know, oh I was whatever, you know, maybe 60, 90 days sober or some bullshit like that. My head still firmly up my ass. um You know, but this beautiful little creature would just look at me and she loved me and it was like, fuck.
00:22:36.60
Mike
You know, I didn't earn it. I didn't deserve it. I didn't, you know, whatever. And yet it was still there. That was a power greater than myself. And I went, well, fuck, I can latch onto that.
00:22:48.22
Bill
Right.
00:22:48.39
Mike
And, um, you know, um, like. early on, you know, we were talking, you know, gratitudes in action. Um, well, love is a fucking action. You know, I mean, ah you said you grew up where people didn't say it.
00:23:01.79
Mike
I grew up with it. It was said a lot. Um, but it wasn't shown a whole lot, you know?
00:23:07.08
Bill
Right.
00:23:08.44
Mike
Yeah. Great. Fuck you. Love me. Was this what it is? Fuck you. Um, that's the way I grew up with, you know, a lot of lip service and not a lot of action behind it. And, um,
00:23:21.01
Mike
Yeah. So, you know, it means, and then, you know, and then I started really spiraling down that rabbit hole early on and started, you know, going into the rock and roll, all these fucking, as I went into rock and roll, one of my favorite things that I feel love, right?
00:23:36.00
Mike
um I, you know, all the lyrics, man, you know, ah you can just song titles. You could rattle off. I could rattle off a ton of them right now. Um, and I won't cause I don't want to. And, but anyway, you know, what are and a lot of them are crap too. You know, Huey Lewis, man, the power of love, you know, fucking you too in the name of love. Um, but I started, you know, yes, all you need is love the Beatles, um, which is a good one, which is important.
00:24:07.79
Mike
And um I've told it on here before, but I'll say it again. When I'm at the end of a meeting and everybody's doing the Lord's Prayer, I recite the lyrics to All You Need Is Love in my head. i have Probably I started doing that within the first couple of months of being sober and I've always done it And it's yeah, that's just it works for me.
00:24:24.99
Bill
Right.
00:24:29.64
Mike
Um And you know, you can go Google the lyrics I'm not gonna recite them here because we might get into some copyright shit. um I fuck it with the Beatles catalog ah yeah That's right
00:24:38.70
Bill
Yeah, right. That motherfucker's got some power. You want to talk about a power greater than us.
00:24:45.09
Mike
Yeah, a fucking A, McCartney, man. Guy's got all the money in the world and all the power.
00:24:49.43
Bill
Yep.
00:24:49.42
Mike
Anyway. um
00:24:52.64
Mike
So yes, all those rock and roll songs, all those songs, I started going back and really listening to the lyrics and going and applying them to, and again, not an original concept by any means. Love is God, God is love, blah, blah, blah. you know Fucking all the religions, God is love. Okay, well, if God is love, then love is God. and love is a power greater than myself and love is an action so I could be a part of this power greater than myself by acting as if I love other people and I actually started to and I do today.
00:25:28.92
Bill
Right.
00:25:29.68
Mike
So again, gotta qualify that because there's a whole lot of them that I don't.
00:25:35.72
Bill
Yeah, and it's, ah I don't know if if we were talking about it on here, but I was talking about it with somebody recently that, um and it's, a again, a very, very common thing when people get sober is usually your your circle gets smaller.
00:25:48.13
Bill
I mean, you know a lot of people, we know hundreds of of sober people we've ran across and been involved in and can say hi to um hundreds of sober individuals, you know.
00:25:48.85
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
00:25:58.93
Mike
Absolutely.
00:26:00.14
Bill
doesn't necessarily mean they're part of our our circle. you know um But our our true circle of friends, at least mine and I think yours too, you know i mean stay small and has remained small.
00:26:03.03
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:08.35
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:11.08
Bill
And you know in in a lot of cases got a lot smaller once we got sober.
00:26:11.37
Mike
Yup.
00:26:14.53
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:15.53
Bill
And you know the thing of it is is that we have the ability And it's nothing against the people that we don't hang out. Maybe some of them is.
00:26:22.93
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:23.53
Bill
um you know But it just i it just is what it is. you know we're This is this life over here. This is that life over there. you know um I don't feel fucking triggered if I'm gonna hang around those people.
00:26:31.75
Mike
Right.
00:26:35.52
Bill
You said it before and I think it's great.
00:26:35.63
Mike
No, of course not.
00:26:37.38
Bill
You'd be fucking bored and you don't have the patience for it.
00:26:39.23
Mike
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:26:39.59
Bill
You fucking old for this shit, you fucking sober for this shit.
00:26:43.69
Mike
Yep.
00:26:45.33
Bill
I didn't have the time for this shit. I literally, I would rather sit home and watch mindless fucking TV than try to sit in a bar with a bunch of people that I don't really care that much about, you know, just because of something.
00:26:49.49
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:26:55.22
Mike
Right?
00:26:56.86
Bill
I mean, I know you go to, but you go to, you know, clubs and stuff like that, but you know, and you've said it on here, you know, when it's the right time, you're like, yeah, I've had enough of this.
00:26:57.68
Mike
Right.
00:27:00.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:27:05.33
Bill
I couldn't go.
00:27:05.41
Mike
Right. Exactly. Yeah. and And it's not like I'm going and hanging out with the people or anything.
00:27:10.12
Bill
Right.
00:27:10.27
Mike
I'm i'm really not. I'll say hi to a couple of people I know, which I do. And sometimes I don't. Sometimes, shit, man. You know, I'll say, like, if it's a kind of a bigger place, I mean, I'll see some people I know.
00:27:21.29
Mike
I'm not going to go out of my way to get over there to them to say hi, and you know, whatever. I fucking I'm there to see the band. and I'm there to listen to the music. That's what I'm there for.
00:27:31.75
Mike
I mean, I go by myself sometimes.
00:27:32.05
Bill
right
00:27:33.76
Mike
I like it that way because I don't have to deal with anything else. I'm there for a very specific reason to listen to music, to watch people play music live. That's what I'm there for.
00:27:45.16
Mike
Not to fucking do anything else. You know, I'm certainly not to socialize. i don't fucking if ah i know Like you said, I'll stay home.
00:27:56.09
Mike
I don't like to socialize. I don't i still don't.
00:27:59.57
Bill
Right.
00:27:59.74
Mike
That's fine. you know If I'm in a ah setting a sober setting, yes, I socialize because we have a common reason to be there and it's a reason that I that i enjoy being a part of, but the rest of it, ah
00:28:08.90
Bill
Right.
00:28:14.48
Mike
Literally the rest of it in the fucking world. Eh, I I don't care I really fucking it don't politics social causes blah blah blah.
00:28:19.98
Bill
yeah
00:28:25.03
Mike
I don't fucking care Right
00:28:27.46
Bill
Right. Yeah. It just, uh, I don't know. Yeah, it it is. It's sometimes it's just, uh, it's so much easier to be like, yeah, I don't want to deal with any of that fucking garbage. You know, the, the potential, and I didn't want to say negative, but the potential irritants or I didn't want to decide even uncomfortable, but the potential lack of enjoyment, you know, for me, um, you know, is enough to, yeah, it is irritating.
00:28:44.10
Mike
Mm hmm irritants No, it's irritating man. It's fucking irritating and and why would I want to be irritated?
00:28:51.60
Bill
Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
00:28:55.82
Mike
I don't want to irritate anyone else and I don't want to be irritated by anyone else.
00:28:58.55
Bill
Right?
00:29:01.30
Mike
So Uh
00:29:02.11
Bill
yeah You keep your irritation over here. I'll keep mine over there.
00:29:05.20
Mike
-huh, that's right.
00:29:06.36
Bill
I'm fine.
00:29:06.92
Mike
Mm-hmm
00:29:07.26
Bill
Perfectly fine. You know, I thought about something when you were talking about the whole love thing and you know, all that stuff. So, and I don't remember if I ever talked about it on here, but I know you may remember this.
00:29:18.55
Bill
So for the longest time, well, when I first got sober, i it we would have been a perfect opportunity for ah my son's mom, Dawn, to basically be like, okay, everything I said, all the groundwork, because she did, she laid out the groundwork of truth, not faulting her for it.
00:29:27.28
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:29:35.85
Bill
I did then, but I'm not faulting her for it now because she was right.
00:29:37.73
Mike
Right.
00:29:39.31
Bill
but she laid out all the groundwork of this this dude's a fucking raging alcoholic he's no good for us he's no good for himself certainly no good for our son and i don't fault her for for doing all that now um but when i went into detox that was my number one concern i'm like i'm fucked she's gonna she had with with no literally zero effort on her part um she could have buried me
00:29:39.32
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:29:46.03
Mike
Out. Right.
00:29:51.02
Mike
Yeah.
00:29:56.20
Mike
yeah
00:30:03.66
Bill
you know could have buried me and I never would have seen my son and she could have done that um but here's what she did she did not do that that's number one so you know again kudos to her she was a far bigger person than I ever had been or at least was up to that point and then not only did not to do that she went out of her way to make sure
00:30:03.91
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right.
00:30:24.53
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:30:25.06
Bill
that you know coordinated with Kathy at Kiss Kathy, used to bring Derek out and this and that and all these different things. She literally went out of her way to make sure that I was able to see him and be part of his life.
00:30:35.79
Bill
you know And I used to always say, I'm like, you know for whatever reason, I don't even know why she did it, but she didn't bury me.
00:30:36.09
Mike
Right.
00:30:41.77
Bill
And I said that in front of our our sponsor, Joe, one time.
00:30:43.45
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:30:44.29
Bill
And I was still in Ohio, maybe, let's just say, well, at the time, I remember he was like, he had to have been our sponsor at that time, a couple of years sober, let's say.
00:30:52.39
Mike
Right.
00:30:52.89
Bill
And you know he goes he goes, I know why. And I'm like, well, fucking enlighten me then.
00:30:55.03
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.
00:30:57.16
Bill
you know And he said, because she loves your son.
00:31:00.52
Mike
Yeah.
00:31:01.39
Bill
And I'm like, huh.
00:31:03.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:31:03.52
Bill
And he said he said, she wouldn't do that to him to try to hurt you.
00:31:06.81
Mike
Right. Right.
00:31:08.60
Bill
And in turn, you get the fucking benefit.
00:31:11.04
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:31:12.19
Bill
So she said, he he's like, she actually cares about him far more than you ever did at that time.
00:31:18.21
Mike
Yeah.
00:31:19.42
Bill
know And i'm like I'm like, well, fuck. um All right, ah yeah, I'm gonna accept it.
00:31:24.56
Mike
Yeah.
00:31:25.23
Bill
I mean, what am I gonna say? You're wrong, because number one, he wasn't.
00:31:27.26
Mike
Right.
00:31:29.24
Bill
But um just the, I go back and I say all the time, what a wonderful human being she is. And the fact that we get along and it took time and all that sort of stuff.
00:31:37.29
Mike
sure.
00:31:37.37
Bill
But these are these are the elements of of what and who she is as a human being, with all the shit that I put her through. And again, I know what I would have done in that circumstance.
00:31:48.76
Mike
Oh, yeah.
00:31:50.20
Bill
If I were her I would have fucking buried me, you know, I would have been fucking done, you know, but um yeah, I mean that's that's Right, right Right
00:31:52.28
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Well, I mean, and that's and that's a great example of the power of love. You know, and and Yes, you got to benefit from it, whatever.
00:32:06.71
Mike
And, yeah you know, I mean, there was a small part in there because clearly she had feelings for you at one point, you know, and I mean, yeah, right. so That's why, that's why she is a better person than both of us.
00:32:20.86
Mike
um Right.
00:32:21.70
Bill
combined, he even to this day combined.
00:32:22.78
Mike
oh Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah. You know, that that that power of of of affection and love and and wanting the good, you know, and fucking a man that is great religion.
00:32:30.20
Bill
Right?
00:32:38.24
Mike
Do good and you feel good.
00:32:38.31
Bill
Yeah.
00:32:40.04
Mike
You do bad. You feel bad and God damn it, man. You know, that's that's doing the next right thing, you know, despite our feelings and our emotions in our the right.
00:32:51.76
Mike
You do what's fucking right because it's the right thing to do. and the grand scheme of things yes your son and and you right i mean you know if if she would have buried you if she would have taken your son away from you um you know at this point he's grown man now and and you know things would you know you're still sober but it would make it way fucking harder for you and it would have made it harder for him.
00:33:16.34
Mike
And yeah, you know, it just it was the right thing to do. And so she fucking did it. Yeah. And we don't understand that shit because we that's not the way our brains work.
00:33:24.22
Bill
i I know, and I said it before, she's been such a key to my whole process.
00:33:35.62
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:33:36.39
Bill
She's the same person that said to me, keep doing what you're doing, or you are fucking done after I got a little bit of time under my belt.
00:33:38.87
Mike
Right. Yeah. you're Right.
00:33:42.34
Bill
you know what ah and She never, and that was long before, she said that to me a three, four months sober. you know She's like, I'm not doing this to him again.
00:33:47.10
Mike
Right.
00:33:50.13
Bill
You're not going away.
00:33:50.21
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:33:50.73
Bill
you know it's but It's been three months. you're not putting You're not doing this to him, and I'm sure as fuck not gonna let him watch you fucking die.
00:33:56.03
Mike
Uh huh.
00:33:58.16
Bill
you know She's like, yeah, you drink again, you're fucking done. I won't put him through that again. And I'm like, you know what, Ed, again, we we talk about, everyone talks about, yeah, you got to do it for you.
00:34:08.50
Bill
Yes. I had, I had some motivation at three to four months, but, but I still, I had to find my way and do it for me.
00:34:11.97
Mike
right.
00:34:15.26
Bill
Then in turn, be there for my son. And we all, we all do it, you know, and you know, your granddaughter, you know, you get, you had to keep doing what you were doing for, you know, for her and your daughter at the time and all those sort of things that get all good graces back.
00:34:17.18
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Yep. Mm hmm.
00:34:26.10
Bill
And you know, but sooner or later, I mean, we, we have to have more than that. We've got to do it for ourselves. you know, or it's not going to stick.
00:34:30.97
Mike
Right.
00:34:32.38
Bill
You know, you just get sober for somebody else and I'm saying it won't work, but man, I don't want to be in that position.
00:34:32.69
Mike
Absolutely.
00:34:35.48
Mike
Hmm.
00:34:38.39
Bill
I would not want to be in that position to still be trying to stay sober for somebody else.
00:34:43.13
Mike
No, absolutely not.
00:34:43.97
Bill
You know.
00:34:44.77
Mike
Right. You know, I mean, right, we, again, it's that whole balance thing, right?
00:34:49.61
Bill
Mm hmm.
00:34:49.72
Mike
Yes, we hear all the time, we have to do this for ourselves. And we do. And I do it for myself, because I am still selfish and self centered. And I like the results of living this way.
00:34:59.86
Mike
I feel good. I, you know, I am good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes, i it is for me. I do this for me, but I absolutely do it for others. You know, Chris and and Lydia and it
00:35:10.24
Bill
right
00:35:12.78
Mike
you and you know and Kathy and yeah yes everyone that's everyone that's around me that that I do have that love for um I that's a big part of why I do it but it's you know the biggest part is yes it is for me you know all these other people can go away and I will still continue to do what I have to do to stay sober because I fucking feel good and I like feeling good you know
00:35:34.84
Bill
Right. Right.
00:35:39.11
Mike
Yeah, again, that's why I was just all twisted up in my head and thought that the other shit was making me feel good. No, the shit's making me feel good.
00:35:49.48
Bill
um Imagine that.
00:35:51.00
Mike
Yeah, I know.
00:35:53.47
Bill
Yeah, and it's just, ah I don't know, you know, in and granted, I mean, we've we've admitted, it's like, you know, whatever it is, the the first, what do we say, 20 minutes, you know, of of whatever, you know, whether it's, whether drinking or drugging or doing whatever, you you might get 20 minutes of pleasure out of it and, you know, then it's fucking gone, you know, and then you're you'll never get back that first feeling.
00:35:58.42
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:36:07.02
Mike
Well,
00:36:09.63
Mike
Yeah.
00:36:12.32
Bill
Just the same thing, you never get past that ah first buzz when you, first time you started smoking or first time you started drinking or first time anything like that.
00:36:18.62
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.
00:36:20.03
Bill
you know I mean, you you never get that fucking feeling back ever.
00:36:22.94
Mike
Right. Right. That first cup of coffee.
00:36:26.79
Bill
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:27.30
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:36:28.01
Bill
and you know what it well I well now I know after after inadvertently going without caffeine for a few days that yeah um I do need it but um I don't feel it when I drink it's not like I drink a cup of coffee right away in the morning and I'm like I'm fucking ready to go you know I don't get that you know super buzz out of it if I drink too much and don't eat yes I mean I'll get the I get the fucking shakes but I mean that's just I mean I'm human you know so yeah you gotta cut of again balance I gotta balance out some food in there somewhere
00:36:32.39
Mike
Uh huh.
00:36:40.67
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh.
00:36:56.25
Bill
yeah I used to do that when I but i traveled out to Ohio, especially you know those first couple of years after I moved back to Wisconsin. The same thing, i mean i would I would drive out and I wouldn't eat on the wakes.
00:37:07.47
Bill
I wanted to get out so we could get to, dropping off shit, do whatever, get into a meeting.
00:37:10.72
Mike
Right.
00:37:11.67
Bill
And then you know you and I would go get pizza or I'd be over by Johnny's to get pizza and I'm not eating until fucking nine o'clock at night. And that's going, you know I might've had some snack food in the morning or maybe half a sandwich or something like that.
00:37:25.15
Bill
But yeah, I mean, towards the end of the, I'm still drinking coffee at, you know, fucking eight o'clock at night and I'm fucking jitter. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, I feel like I'm, I don't feel good. You know, fucking and head hurts. And you think you should eat something?
00:37:36.78
Bill
I don't know.
00:37:36.83
Mike
yeah Yeah, we're still broken.
00:37:41.07
Bill
Right. So did you, did you listen to, um, um, Mark Marin's got, uh, Josh Brolin on, uh, yeah.
00:37:47.94
Mike
I had now I see yeah yesterday, right? I saw it. Yeah, I saw a post, but I didn't I haven't listened yet.
00:37:54.03
Bill
<unk>s i I only listened to, it's like last night when I was making dinner and then when I went up to get my pizza and stuff today, I listened, I think the first 10 or 15 minutes.
00:38:00.99
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:38:01.48
Bill
They were talking about whatever nicotine thing that Mark does and Josh does the same thing.
00:38:04.67
Mike
Right.
00:38:05.78
Bill
So they were talking about that from an addiction standpoint. Obviously that clearly is an addiction.
00:38:08.25
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:38:10.54
Bill
Oh, it's fucking funny. I was laughing my ass off through the whole thing. It was it was so funny. The first, if nothing else, the first 15 minutes or so. I mean, Josh Rowland's interesting enough, but they, yeah, the first 15, maybe 20 minutes, just it is.
00:38:18.86
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:38:23.21
Bill
talking about this fucking addiction shit with their whatever making nicotine garbage they got fucking going on shoe dip I don't know what the fuck it is but yeah it was funny it was funny so all right so back to the reading anything else on there I mean I loved it ah anyone anyone
00:38:28.50
Mike
Right. Right.
00:38:40.76
Mike
yeah
00:38:44.12
Mike
Right. ah Now, I mean, I think we covered it fairly well, you know, just, um, yeah, you know, I got shit. I, yeah, I said it all.
00:38:55.40
Mike
I don't want to repeat myself when I was dead.
00:38:55.43
Bill
You're funny.
00:39:00.07
Bill
That's okay. You know what? ah Sometimes repetition is fine, but I get it.
00:39:02.94
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:39:03.51
Bill
I mean, if you're if you're stopping yourself, are you tired of hearing yourself speak or something?
00:39:06.88
Mike
Maybe.
00:39:09.02
Bill
All right, so um actually this is good, because I know you hate this part of the year anyhow when I ask you to do this, but the you can you can actually whip through this because then we'll take a break.
00:39:14.62
Mike
Mm.
00:39:18.75
Bill
but we're heading into the holiday season and you always have a good message for people on how to handle themselves with holiday parties and all those sort of things especially well it doesn't matter whether they're early in recovery or whatever the deal is so um i don't know just kind of crossed my mind tonight when we were when i was setting stuff up so um give them give everyone your your pep talk
00:39:38.14
Mike
All right. Holidays. They're just fucking days.
00:39:45.15
Mike
Right. Um, well, again, atheist, right? So, you know, what is holiday holy day? Um, and I don't fucking think so. It's another day of the year. Don't allow societal religious, whatever pressures because it's a day on the calendar and somebody thousand years ago said, this is the day that we're going to celebrate this.
00:40:08.50
Mike
or hundreds of years ago as in Thanksgiving or 150 or whatever the fuck. This is the day we're going to be grateful. um It's just a fucking day, man. you know Don't let the pressure get to you. you know if you are If you're enjoying it and you like it and you know it's cool, man, celebrate, have fun with it. That's what it's supposed to be. But if it's pressure and it's stressing you out,
00:40:34.71
Mike
fuck it man it's not that important it's just all made up anyway so right you know and again there are expectations family blah blah blah whatever um you know what if if if you're just not feeling it and it's threatening your sobriety skip it. There's next year. you know And if it's threatening your sobriety and you're fucked up and and you gotta you get loaded over it, over some made up shit, then you probably won't have next year. So don't do it um again.
00:41:11.87
Mike
You know, it's another day on the calendar. It's okay, man. If you want to sit it out, it's okay. You know, move along and if you want to celebrate and it's making you happy and it's bringing you joy and it's helping you bring other people joy, then do it. If it's not, then don't because it's all made up anyway.
00:41:32.36
Bill
Yes, but i the best part about that and that the thing that I think is great is the fact that you always, it's just another day and it really is.
00:41:39.29
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:41:39.52
Bill
you know The Christmas, the Thanksgiving, the Fourth of July, the Memorial Days, the Labor Days, that's all they are.
00:41:44.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:41:45.10
Bill
They're just there just days that somebody had decided that, hey, this is what we're gonna do.
00:41:46.79
Mike
Yep.
00:41:49.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:41:49.96
Bill
yes maybe based on an event the blah blah blah but um we don't have to drink on it either you know you can celebrate you could be part of you can do your thing find sober of people to be around you know or or don't you know like like mike said i mean if you if you're that fucked up about the whole thing and you go you may not have next year so and that's
00:41:55.56
Mike
Nope. Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:42:06.02
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:42:10.27
Bill
That's a fucking fact you know we know it's it it's not i should be even laugh is that funny we don't wait too many fucking people that you like yeah i can i can take the chance and like i could have one i can have one hit one this one that and then they're fucking dead and that's that's what happens to us people you know.
00:42:11.55
Mike
Yeah.
00:42:24.44
Mike
Yup. Absolutely. Yup. And if it's, uh, you know, if you can take somebody sober with you, have a partner, we is the most important thing in this program. You know, we can't do this shit alone, any of it life. Um, and you have an escape or plan, you know, have a way to get yourself out of there. Um,
00:42:46.15
Mike
You know, hopefully without, uh, causing too much pain to anyone else, you know, uh, family members, whatever, sorry, grandma, I gotta go. Um, yeah, but you know, if grandma's a little uncomfortable because you have to leave, well, that's grandma's problem, isn't it?
00:43:05.04
Bill
Yeah, and ah you know drive yourself. I mean, if you don't have the ability to drive yourself these days, so I mean, unless you're out in the middle of fucking nowhere and I ran across that, but you know call an Uber.
00:43:07.05
Mike
Yep.
00:43:10.09
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:43:13.39
Bill
you know um It costs you a couple of bucks, but I mean, if you don't have a car or you don't have the ability to to drive there, snag an Uber, Jesus Christ, an Uber.
00:43:13.63
Mike
Yep. Mm hmm.
00:43:19.05
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep.
00:43:22.60
Mike
Right lift.
00:43:22.92
Bill
throw throw some yeah Uber or Lyft, yeah throw 50 bucks aside and you know make sure you got, got and that's the thing. you know we Again, to this day, we talk about it all the time, every time I'm doing this.
00:43:33.02
Bill
To this day, unless it's my friend Mike there in the car that I'm going with, if I go to an event, I drive i drive myself all the time, all the fucking time.
00:43:39.25
Mike
ye Yep, yep.
00:43:41.52
Bill
And you know I gotta, well, we have a couple of years under our belt, but I don't know.
00:43:45.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:43:46.31
Bill
Again, back to the irritant, so this and that, the matter of just being like, fuck, man, ah I'm tired in my head. I'm like, I can't handle this shit no more. Gotta go.
00:43:54.70
Mike
ye yeah Yep.
00:43:55.22
Bill
Gotta fucking go, you know? So, yeah, self-care.
00:43:57.51
Mike
Yep. Self-care, man. True self-care.
00:44:00.49
Bill
Look at you.
00:44:01.97
Mike
Hmm.
00:44:02.74
Bill
but Let's get back to talking about self-care after this. What do you think, Mike?
00:44:06.45
Mike
All right. Well, we'll be back to talk about touching ourselves right after these words from our sponsor.
00:44:19.91
Bill
all right everyone i was just making fun of the fact that you know self-care sounds too well i was just gonna say touchy-feely so never mind never mind it you know what it was exactly maybe deep down Freudian you know Freudian slip in my head it was i was thinking about touching myself anyhow the whole so yeah self-care me time
00:44:22.16
Mike
e
00:44:29.82
Mike
ya Yeah. Yup.
00:44:35.82
Mike
Mm hmm. Absolutely. Uh huh. Yeah. and
00:44:44.60
Bill
So um, so this weekend maybe I was gonna I'm sure I probably would have came up anyhow But so I'm i'm heading up to Wisconsin ah tomorrow and the original reason for it we were trying to figure out a time to get together ah With the kids my my son's birthday is October 12th.
00:45:00.73
Bill
He he was off with Don and Cory and then they went someplace ah for his birthday week and whatever they were they were gone for like a week and And then Kimmy is November 10th and then she was doing her thing, blah, blah, blah.
00:45:13.52
Bill
They were in Chicago last weekend is where they were.
00:45:15.18
Mike
Yeah, yeah
00:45:16.07
Bill
They took the boy down there and they hung out in Chicago. So we're trying to figure out you know to get together with them and then Kimmy's like, oh, Dawn wanted to get together at some point. So all said and done were meeting at Dawn's.
00:45:27.77
Bill
Dawn, once again, is my ex-wife that I was talking about a minute ago. So her and her husband, obviously my son and his girlfriend, Katie, um my daughter, and obviously my son-in-law, Brian, ah My grandson, bo me.
00:45:39.50
Bill
um I don't know if Alec will be there maybe, I would i would think possibly, but um it's going to be like a Thanksgiving thing.
00:45:42.25
Mike
Right.
00:45:46.39
Mike
Call.
00:45:47.51
Bill
Dawn's getting to Turkey, she's doing all this different stuff, but yeah, all you know she's hosting it, so we're going to get together there. and My point was that I was trying to figure out a place, so I didn't have to do, the again, the six-hour driving, whatever, back and forth.
00:46:00.23
Bill
you know obviously on a Sunday doing that so I've got a place up there in two rivers but um what I was thinking about was when you know when Dawn said the timing finally like okay so what can we bring you know just let us know or do you want some help you know whatever so she's like i' I'll get the turkey I'm doing this I'm doing that she's like she goes we don't have much soda here and she goes we need dinner rolls
00:46:13.64
Mike
Right.
00:46:22.08
Bill
And I said, I said, I'll do, I said, I'll, I'll get both of those. I'm like, what does everyone else want? Cause there's a group text and then nobody responded. I'm like, am I the only one drinking soda? Cause if so, then, and then Dawn's like, uh, yes.
00:46:37.02
Bill
But, but so back to what we were just talking about, um, not that everyone's going to, you know, rip it up and be rowdy or whatever it is, but, and you know, Kimmy, Brian at the drive home, if they have a couple of drinks, they may, uh, who knows?
00:46:43.54
Mike
Sure. Right.
00:46:47.61
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.
00:46:49.25
Bill
Maybe they won't.
00:46:50.23
Mike
Yeah.
00:46:50.31
Bill
Um, but.
00:46:51.23
Mike
Glass of wine with dinner.
00:46:51.66
Bill
i
00:46:52.11
Mike
Fucking weirdos.
00:46:52.54
Bill
yeah
00:46:53.39
Mike
Right.
00:46:54.19
Bill
But I mean, I've been in situations like that where, um and Dawn always tells me, she'll always say that you know either I have soda or I don't, or this is what I'll have and this is whatever.
00:46:59.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:47:04.67
Bill
um But she always makes sure that like the one time I went over there, she cooked everything and fucking alcohol.
00:47:04.69
Mike
Right.
00:47:08.79
Bill
you know It's a summertime thing.
00:47:09.50
Mike
Yeah.
00:47:10.39
Bill
And I'm like, um'm like this is there beer in the brats? And she's like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, no. Is there any alcohol? And then she's like, oh, that was cooked with wine. And I'm like, okay, that's okay. I'm like, I'm munching out a piece of salad and a tomato or something.
00:47:22.12
Mike
a Right.
00:47:22.54
Bill
It wasn't that. That's a joke. you know But um I guess back to that point, though, I'm not uncomfortable being in that circumstance. um And there would be nothing along the lines of if I get to the point where I just want to go, I can go and I'm not going to piss anyone off.
00:47:35.86
Mike
isn Right.
00:47:37.75
Bill
you know And it's I'm never going to be like, I don't know, I've never made a deal out of it or an issue out of it where um you know it's about the time when everyone's going to start drinking.
00:47:43.57
Mike
Right. Right.
00:47:47.33
Bill
First of all, it's a Sunday. Nobody's going to be ripping it up anyhow.
00:47:50.28
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:47:50.71
Bill
But I'm around people who know my deal, care about me, and you know specifically say, hey, dude, um you need to bring something to drink.
00:47:58.97
Mike
yeah right
00:47:59.53
Bill
you know, and I'm fine with it, you know, it's just, I don't know, it just it was everything we were talking about, but being in a social situation where I'm extremely happy to be around all those people, and yes, I'll bring, I'll BYOB, bring my own beverage.
00:48:05.14
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. We're not comfortable supplying you with non-alcoholic beverages.
00:48:19.05
Bill
No, and I'm sure she's probably like, you don't want to buy and all this other shit if you want so to bring some fucking soda You know, she didn't say it but she would have no problem saying that to me and I wouldn't take offense to it either, you know But yeah, I don't know it's it's gonna be nice and then um I've I've been through um two rivers.
00:48:24.15
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly. so okay
00:48:37.84
Bill
It's just north of Manitowoc where the whole
00:48:37.88
Mike
All
00:48:42.85
Bill
Uh, making of a murder or Netflix show was that Steven Avery, that's who the dude was. You probably never, you probably never watched that, but I, a lot of people did how to make a murder or murder murdering, making a murder or whatever it is.
00:48:48.50
Mike
right. Nope.
00:48:54.63
Bill
Um, that's the, that's managed to walk.
00:48:54.91
Mike
All right.
00:48:56.33
Bill
But, um, but yeah, it's saying, you know, a couple of blocks off of Lake Michigan. I mean, it's a cold time of year, but who knows? I may, may try to make my way down there and take a peek at, you know, at a lake that's kind of great.
00:49:04.87
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:49:05.73
Bill
And one way or the other, it's a, it'll be nice to again, not have to drive six hours around trips. So.
00:49:10.60
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Cool.
00:49:12.86
Bill
But, so back to, back to this stuff.
00:49:16.61
Mike
Hmm.
00:49:17.20
Bill
Ooh, want to hear about drinking? Not me, a guy, a guy I ran across.
00:49:20.80
Mike
Yeah. Okay.
00:49:22.80
Bill
So you and I were talking after we got off the podcast last weekend, you know, I needed tires and I wanted to get them done this week.
00:49:29.74
Mike
Right.
00:49:29.78
Bill
And, you know, I said that I was looking at Walmart this and that and had a little issue. And then I ended up Firestone had, had a set of tires that I thought would be decent. So I stopped over there on, on Saturday and it's only over in Portage where mom used to live.
00:49:43.16
Bill
You know, walk in there and I'm telling the guy what I want and he's talking to me and I'm like, you know, kind of get this smell, you know, this whiff. And I'm like, you know, kind of weird. you Again, you don't click right away.
00:49:52.30
Mike
Right.
00:49:52.54
Bill
So it's getting everything set up and set the appointment from the next stage. He's like, Oh, I got to order the tires for the story. Got him. Um, but you know, it was going to be a couple hours. What am I going to do? Dry back, dry back, you know, this sort of thing.
00:50:02.33
Mike
Right.
00:50:03.00
Bill
I'm like, God, if you got an appointment tomorrow, I just did it on, did it on Sunday.
00:50:03.20
Mike
Yeah.
00:50:06.42
Bill
Um, but one or two things either, um, and the guy, you know, he didn't seem like he was drunk, but so he didn't want to two things either.
00:50:12.82
Mike
Right.
00:50:14.34
Bill
He was drinking, you know, obviously there, um, or fucking ripped it up on a Friday night.
00:50:15.55
Mike
Uh huh.
00:50:20.48
Mike
Right.
00:50:20.72
Bill
And this was the residual and.
00:50:22.28
Mike
Yeah.
00:50:23.19
Bill
The reason I bring it up and I mean, i he didn't he was wonderful.
00:50:25.89
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:50:26.58
Bill
Everything got set up right. They did a great job on my car.
00:50:29.53
Mike
Cool.
00:50:29.72
Bill
No issues with the service. I wasn't offended by any of it.
00:50:32.34
Mike
Right.
00:50:33.53
Bill
um Plus I got a great deal. i got I got four brand new tires, all the shit done, mounted the whole bit, plus an oil change for less than 600 bucks. So I get everything everything fucking done.
00:50:42.89
Mike
Nice. Yeah.
00:50:44.99
Bill
um But you know what, it just made me think about um two things. you know I mean, how many times was I in front of somebody like that where they're like, do I like so smell something?
00:50:49.65
Mike
Hmm.
00:50:56.77
Bill
And then um realizing that if that guy is seeping booze out of his body like that, um you know how does he feel right now?
00:51:03.75
Mike
Right?
00:51:10.22
Bill
And that was immediately a thought, I'm like, oh, fuck man.
00:51:13.36
Mike
Yeah.
00:51:14.15
Bill
Right away, i I remembered how that felt and it did not make me, I didn't feel good.
00:51:17.73
Mike
see okay Right. Didn't make you want to go out and get a drink?
00:51:24.29
Bill
No, not even not even one fucking little bit.
00:51:24.91
Mike
No.
00:51:26.61
Bill
Not even one little bit, you know?
00:51:26.77
Mike
Right. Yeah, right. Fucking misery, man.
00:51:30.74
Bill
I know.
00:51:30.79
Mike
Oh yeah. I remember, yeah, plenty of times, you know, and I mean, yeah I remember, you know, being at jobs or whatever and people, you know, saying stuff and yeah, I mean, for me, we've talked about it on here. ah I wasn't a maintenance drinker. I couldn't be a maintenance drinker. Um, so yeah, if I stunk booze the next day, it was from the night before.
00:51:49.60
Bill
Right.
00:51:49.64
Mike
And yeah, you know, i yeah people look at me and whatever. Yeah. And I felt like shit. Absolutely. Yeah. i Again, back to i I feel pretty good today.
00:52:01.90
Mike
It's selfish.
00:52:02.00
Bill
Right.
00:52:02.50
Mike
I want to keep feeling this good. i I don't want to go feel really, really good for 20 minutes and then feel like shit for 23 and a half hours.
00:52:12.87
Bill
Yeah and you know I just I remember that going up I mean years ago I yeah probably before I would say yeah before I had a you know a real problem and I wasn't day drinking and you know getting up in the morning and drinking and doing all that stuff and you know I wasn't you know taking the edge off in the morning and all that but you know being out at you know work events or being at these conferences and you know, I remember, you know, you get up, get up in the morning and, you know, you're still, you know, kind of like a little, little fucking buzzed up and, you know, if nothing else, fucking cloudy.
00:52:44.50
Bill
Um, and then, you know, having to put on, you know, the fucking dress pants and a shirt and a tie and a sport coat or whatever, then go down and sit in these fucking conferences. And I'm just feeling hot, you know, number one, and just feeling like, um, not sick, but, um, just like, like your whole body is buzzing, you know?
00:52:55.90
Mike
Out.
00:53:00.28
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:53:03.69
Bill
and just this uneasy feeling again, not like I want to throw up, but I just don't feel right, you know?
00:53:08.22
Mike
Yeah.
00:53:08.97
Bill
um But yeah, just being fucking hot, you know, just fucking hot. And I'm like, oh, God damn.
00:53:14.08
Mike
Uh huh.
00:53:16.67
Bill
And you know what? the The thing of it is, is that. ah I mentioned it before you know, I'm my body. I think these days. I'm like an old fucking Buick I I get up in the morning. I'm just like wrong And you know, it's once I get rolling man, you know, i'm I'm good, you know, i'm I'm fine Yeah, it's the same thing when I when I first start walking on a hikey hiking trail, you know first Whatever it is, you know quarter mile or whatever.
00:53:26.69
Mike
Well. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:53:38.02
Bill
I'm walking or wherever it is. I'm like motherfucker. I'm like a fucking oh Whoo, and it just it is it's just ah I could probably just fucking open it up all my blood vessels to my fucking heart It's like okay, you gotta open up that carburetor, you know um But you know once I get going I'm fine and you know, I kind of bitch to myself im like Jesus fucking Christ But I'm not that guy at firestone these days, you know
00:53:41.14
Mike
Uh huh. Yeah.
00:54:00.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:54:01.08
Bill
um And I don't want to wake up sore I don't want to wake up and you know Have it take me a half hour to kind of get get in you know I don't know game shape or whatever it is I don't feel that way but you know you know what I mean, but I don't feel that way ha Right
00:54:10.00
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah, you know, I mean, I get up and yeah, it takes me, ah you know, 30 seconds to go, all right. And then it's all right. And then I do what I gotta do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:54:29.37
Mike
i fuck yeah Selfish I do not want to be that way anymore Yeah
00:54:34.01
Bill
Right, yeah, and it's just, yeah, it's, and maybe it is, maybe things like that are, you know, it didn't like click in my head until we were just talking about it, but maybe these are fucking reminders, you know, these are these gentle reminders of, oh, yeah you got a problem? You you don't like, you know, in fact, you're a little fucking tired in the morning, you're a little sore. I mean, I think my lower back pain, I think it's just part of me now. You know, it started like a month ago, probably loading or unloading my car, I fucking twisted myself climbing up a fucking mountain or something like that.
00:55:02.60
Mike
Yep.
00:55:02.75
Bill
And it just hasn't gone away, you know, and it's not bad, you know, but I think, I think it's me now that's part of me.
00:55:04.69
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. This is my life now.
00:55:11.15
Bill
Yeah. This, uh, this, this funny little back pain, it's just, it's, I don't know. It's like my friend now it's there. No, hi, hi. Yeah.
00:55:16.61
Mike
Hi.
00:55:17.56
Bill
I hear you.
00:55:17.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:55:18.44
Bill
I feel you. Gotcha.
00:55:20.09
Mike
Yep.
00:55:20.25
Bill
But, uh, I don't know. And I get, I always say that, you know, I used to say, Hey, you can't complain. Right.
00:55:25.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can, but it doesn't matter.
00:55:27.03
Bill
And I still do. Yeah. Yeah, it it really, it really, really fucking doesn't matter. So um speaking of that, I've got, and I won't do it now. I'll do it towards, towards the end if we have time, but I have a, I have a hiking story.
00:55:38.06
Bill
It's not about me though. It was a news story. So, so there was, um I think this was this week, a rare occurrence.
00:55:40.28
Mike
All right.
00:55:45.94
Bill
I had three things that I wrote down for the 24 hour book, and I don't know if they were all this week, but let's just go, I'll tell you what, Mike, let's do one, let's do one at a time.
00:55:49.28
Mike
Hmm.
00:55:55.48
Bill
Why don't we do that?
00:55:55.91
Mike
All right.
00:55:56.24
Bill
You ready? I was going to say, I'm just going to do one of those. I would see Jesus Christ fucking idiot. Okay. So I have found that I can.
00:56:03.95
Mike
I want to see you. Well, I want to see you do them all at the same time.
00:56:07.81
Bill
Okay. I'll read it. I'll read them all. I'll read all three right now.
00:56:10.51
Mike
kiss this this No, no, I mean, no, I can currently all three of them at once do it now do it do it Ah, okay.
00:56:11.23
Bill
I have found that I can.
00:56:15.93
Bill
Oh, I just did. You didn't hear it. See, you're not you're just not smart enough.
00:56:21.12
Mike
Yep Right
00:56:21.98
Bill
It's like you know defending your life. It's like now you wouldn't understand, you didn't hear it. I'm at a different level than you are. Okay, so first one, I have found that I can never make a person any better by criticism.
00:56:35.24
Bill
um This one happens to be, 24 hour book is more AA based. ah But anyhow, let's just say, this is AA, but recovery has taught me this. Am I less critical of people meeting?
00:56:46.46
Bill
Am I less critical of people today?
00:56:48.34
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:48.43
Bill
What do you think, Mike?
00:56:49.68
Mike
Mm hmm.
00:56:50.91
Bill
yeah hey Right.
00:56:50.97
Mike
Um, I remember reading this one. Um, yeah. And it's funny. I actually remember reading it and sitting there thinking because that's what I do when I do my meditations.
00:57:04.44
Mike
Um, no, I'm more critical. um I am. I am more critical today than I was. Um, I'm more, hmm.
00:57:16.04
Mike
I'm more forgiving, but I'm also more critical. Um, I, I don't put up with bullshit the way I used to. I see things the way they truly are, not the way that I want them to be. Um, which sometimes is hard and sometimes it's easier, but it's the way it is because of this process.
00:57:36.77
Mike
um Yeah, oh I'm far more critical than I was. you know before i would i would If things weren't the way that I want them to be, I would twist it up in my screwed up little head and make them the way I want them to be.
00:57:51.53
Mike
you know So i I was less critical in that sense before.
00:57:55.26
Bill
Right.
00:57:55.87
Mike
um No, I'm very clear, very rational today. Um, because I'm not all fucked up and, um, honesty and the truth are very important to me. And so I don't try to create these illusions and delusions in my head anymore. So yes, if someone is being, um, and it goes both ways. If someone's being really kind and really good, I am, I'm very aware of that.
00:58:24.04
Mike
Someone's being shitty and an asshole. I'm very aware of that. I'm yes. I am more critical today than I was before Right, yeah Mm-hmm
00:58:31.99
Bill
Right, you know, it's funny. um So all of these in the 24-hour book, and I think one other one, I don't know if it's Scott Grammy, 24-hour book always has a question at the end like that, um or for most of most of the time, I believe.
00:58:45.11
Bill
But, you know, and i I do, I try to honestly answer that question, and when I read it, you know, it's like, am I less critical people? And, you know, 24-hour book is the first thing I read, so I've been up for maybe 20 minutes, you know?
00:58:54.26
Mike
Yep. Me too. Right.
00:58:56.70
Bill
and And I think I said yes, then I'm like, oh I started thinking about it, and I, we may have talked about this before, because i what you just said, and I was thinking the same thing, um so I don't know if it was original thought, it was a flashback of a conversation, it doesn't matter, I agree with you, because we are, we're more you know discerning, I think, of everyone, especially people, um and you know looking at people, and what I used to think was like, eh, fuck it, let them do whatever they want type of thing, I'm like, nah, that's fucking wrong, you know?
00:59:02.96
Mike
Yep.
00:59:06.10
Mike
Hmm.
00:59:13.20
Mike
Right. Right. Mm hmm.
00:59:25.82
Mike
Right. sir
00:59:28.55
Bill
the way you acted, the way you said, the way you're treating, whatever the case is.
00:59:31.07
Mike
see
00:59:32.26
Bill
um So yes, I 100% agree with you, i be I'm more critical.
00:59:36.77
Mike
well
00:59:36.93
Bill
And the same thing, we've talked about it before, that neither one of us um you know either want to or choose to tolerate bullshit anymore.
00:59:45.29
Mike
Right.
00:59:45.31
Bill
you know Life is just too fucking short to have to deal with fucking bullshit. And I don't want to give somebody a pass that's out there fucking around with people, you know?
00:59:54.60
Mike
Right.
00:59:54.70
Bill
um Either I don't hang with them or especially if they're trying to hurt somebody, you know, like we've talked about, um you know, trying to help out people that, you know, that can't help themselves or maybe that that need our help or support or whatever the case may be.
00:59:59.17
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep.
01:00:06.87
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:00:08.19
Bill
um So yeah, it was one of those rare ones where where that gets a no know from me in the 24-hour book, but but in the best possible way, you know?
01:00:11.15
Mike
Yup. Yup.
01:00:17.94
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, real early, I mean, cause a lot of the readings talk about judging it's the big book at two and whatever, you know, talks about, we're not supposed to judge people anymore.
01:00:24.00
Bill
Right.
01:00:28.03
Mike
And I remember very early on Bob, our, you know, grand sponsor, which he hates that term. um you know said No, fuck that, man. We didn't judge. Judge away. that's you know we Again, same same concept.
01:00:40.87
Mike
where We're looking at people. We're seeing what they're doing. Yes, I'm going to fucking judge you. You bet your ass I am. And I hope you're judging me. And if I'm fucking up, you better tell me I'm fucking up.
01:00:51.50
Mike
Yes.
01:00:51.63
Bill
Right?
01:00:52.17
Mike
Yeah. So you know right. Being critical, judgmental, yes, absolutely.
01:00:59.25
Bill
So you know, it's kind of funny because first of all, I remember that conversation. I remember, I don't know if I remember Bob saying that, but I remember you and I having that conversation about it.
01:01:04.84
Mike
Hmm. Right.
01:01:06.81
Bill
So that part about her, I recall, but the next thing um from again, from another reading from the 24 hour book, a better way than judging people hey is to look for, is to look for all the good in them.
01:01:19.88
Bill
Okay. So I think we, we probably have disagree, but maybe agree with that.
01:01:24.30
Mike
Right. Right. Well, again, you know um you know don't make me work too fucking hard to find the good in you. I think it's really the point. Yes, I want, i'm I'm keeping my eyes open for it, but if you're not presenting it to me, well, fuck. yeah know What the hell am I supposed to do with that? and know Again, you know this guy's a real fucking asshole. I need to look at the good in him. but No, I don't.
01:01:48.24
Mike
He's an asshole.
01:01:49.63
Bill
Right.
01:01:49.67
Mike
You know, yeah, don't don't make me work too fucking hard to find the good in you. I'm going to do my best to not make you look too hard to find the good in me. You know, be before, yeah, you had to work really goddamn hard to find the good in me.
01:02:05.26
Mike
Hopefully you don't have to work quite as hard today.
01:02:08.20
Bill
Right.
01:02:08.86
Mike
Yeah.
01:02:09.20
Bill
Yeah. And that's a, that boy, what what a great point too, that yeah, I don't want to spend much time looking for the good in anyone.
01:02:14.59
Mike
Hmm.
01:02:14.70
Bill
You know, just it reminded me of two different things when when you were saying that, you know, don't maybe look too long.
01:02:19.23
Mike
he
01:02:19.52
Bill
um It made me you think of dating apps. You know, if I, and I i still, I fuck around on dating apps and and all that stuff.
01:02:24.44
Mike
sir
01:02:25.28
Bill
And um ah still it's, it is what it is. You guys, you and Chris should be just, you should be the poster child, children of Tinder, you know, just like,
01:02:31.83
Mike
Right. Yeah, I know. Yeah, we should be getting a check from them every month.
01:02:36.03
Bill
Oh God. Yeah. Just look at, look at these two. This is, this is what it is. Cause yeah, these two men on Tinder, one thought it'd be, you know, that that this dude's going to be bad for her.
01:02:39.97
Mike
Right.
01:02:43.99
Bill
And then you're just like, Oh, I think she looks cute or whatever the fuck you thought.
01:02:44.46
Mike
Right. right
01:02:47.41
Bill
And then, you know, yeah, what eight years later, eight, eight and a half, you know,
01:02:49.45
Mike
Yup. Yup. It was eight years in August. So yup.
01:02:53.19
Bill
Yeah, so, um but you know, yeah um I'll match with somebody and I'll message them. Usually, you know, this back and forth and if I can get somebody past the fact that I'm sober and whatever, this is who I am and this is my life and they're cool with it, I'm like, okay, that's like, it's like getting past that that big wave and now you're out in the ocean, right?
01:03:11.57
Bill
You're gonna, yeah who knows how it's gonna go.
01:03:11.67
Mike
Right.
01:03:13.70
Bill
But then, you know, I start asking questions and little things and I want to know or whatever.
01:03:17.72
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:03:18.21
Bill
And the people are just not responding or, you know, I'll get one word answers. I'm just, fuck it.
01:03:21.30
Mike
Hmm.
01:03:22.05
Bill
You're done.
01:03:22.15
Mike
Right.
01:03:22.83
Bill
You know, I mean, seriously, it, I don't, I don't, it's not, I don't look at that as ghosting. I lose my fucking patience with them. And I'm like, rather than you say, okay, then I feel like I don't want to be needy and stuff like that.
01:03:35.37
Bill
Why don't you talk to me? Tell me more things. Clearly we're not connecting.
01:03:39.96
Mike
Right.
01:03:40.30
Bill
So you know what I'm going to do?
01:03:40.78
Mike
it Yeah.
01:03:41.75
Bill
Delete. Tell us why.
01:03:43.64
Mike
Move it on.
01:03:44.15
Bill
No, I'm not going to tell you why, you know, because the day the gap goes up.
01:03:45.72
Mike
No.
01:03:47.22
Bill
Oh, would you like to match? Yes, I want to match. Click, click, you know, and it just it fucking is what it is. I mean, the other person has to feel that the conversation is not going well, you know.
01:03:56.71
Mike
Right? Hmm.
01:03:57.92
Bill
um But it also made me think of the in a work situation that we're making phone calls. We're trying to collect money. And this is the concept of what we do. you know It's like, how many times do you take no before you realize or or hear no, or you know fuck you, I'm not paying you anything ever, die filthy pig, you know that's what they say to us, um before we get rid of it.
01:04:12.01
Mike
Right? Mm-hmm. Right. something
01:04:17.31
Bill
And you know we're basically our our manager tells us, you know take take two hard or solid refusals, you know and then be fucking done with it.
01:04:24.08
Mike
Right.
01:04:25.94
Bill
Give it maybe another week, shoot an email, like a final email, and then get it the fuck out of there.
01:04:26.30
Mike
Yeah.
01:04:28.85
Mike
sir Right.
01:04:30.50
Bill
you know it's the same It's the same concept.
01:04:31.20
Mike
Yeah.
01:04:32.56
Bill
you know
01:04:32.86
Mike
Yeah. Stop wasting your time.
01:04:34.79
Bill
Right, you know, bigger fish to fry, bigger fish out in the sea, whatever the fuck, whatever the fucking sayings we want to use, so.
01:04:35.50
Mike
Yep.
01:04:40.89
Mike
Now, ah you know, find someone that's receptive and wants to play with you. Right.
01:04:45.63
Bill
right yeah play with me get your fucking checkbook out you bitch
01:04:49.16
Mike
Right.
01:04:49.46
Bill
Alright, so the last one of my 24 hour extravaganza here.
01:04:49.69
Mike
Yeah.
01:04:55.72
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:04:56.35
Bill
um I am less sensitive and my feelings are less easily hurt.
01:05:01.26
Mike
Oh, God, yes.
01:05:01.36
Bill
I no longer and no longer take myself so seriously.
01:05:05.08
Mike
Yeah.
01:05:05.70
Bill
um It went on to say that things don't bother me as much today, but sometimes they do.
01:05:11.18
Mike
Hmm.
01:05:11.37
Bill
Or no, things don't bother me as much today. um How do you feel about that? So again, less sensitive, feelings less hurt, no longer take myself so seriously. That's just the basis of it that I had my own commentary in there.
01:05:22.55
Mike
Yeah, right. oh Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, oh, you hurt my feelings and fucking Jesus Christ. Why would I allow my feelings to be hurt?
01:05:34.25
Mike
That's the bigger question to ask yourself. Why are your feelings? Why are you allowing your feelings to be hurt?
01:05:40.39
Bill
Right.
01:05:40.60
Mike
You know, yeah, Jesus Christ. If somebody's hurting your feelings, first of all, what the fuck are you doing hanging around with them? Um, And secondly, why are you, why, why, why?
01:05:53.31
Mike
No, I don't want my feelings hurt. You know, so, um, yeah, you know, I'm not going to be around people that hurt my feelings, first of all.
01:06:01.99
Bill
Right.
01:06:02.07
Mike
Um, and I'm not going to, and, and then again, not taking myself so seriously. I'm not so important. You know, if I, if I am irritated.
01:06:12.58
Mike
back to the irritants. um If I am irritated by something, maybe, you know, why? You know, is it that big of a deal? Why why are my feelings hurt? Why am I so upset about this? And if it's something real, then okay, deal with it. But nine times out of 10, it's not, it's just whatever. It's something I don't wanna hear, whether it's, you know, the truth.
01:06:36.72
Mike
um
01:06:39.55
Mike
And I'm going to have to do something about it. Fuck, you know, or it's a bunch of fucking nonsense and shut the fuck up.
01:06:41.66
Bill
Right.
01:06:46.28
Mike
um And if it's a bunch of nonsense and shut the fuck up, it's certainly not going to hurt my feelings.
01:06:51.77
Bill
Right. Yeah, and I think the only time in in my my commentary in there was, you know, went on to say something about the the longer lines of, you know, things don't bother me as much today, but, and I put, i put sometimes they do. And when I was, when I was, I was trying to figure out why I wrote that down. And now I, as you were talking, it it kind of clicked back into my head when I was thinking,
01:07:11.40
Bill
So i don't I don't get bothered by, and once again, I've talked about it plenty. I've been around the debt collection business for, you know, ah with the exception of a handful of years here and they here and there for over 30 years.
01:07:24.62
Bill
I mean, I was in my early 20s when I started in that industry.
01:07:24.65
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
01:07:28.37
Bill
um I have a relatively thick skin. People don't piss me off. Sometimes people's stupidity gets under my skin, but that's my own problem.
01:07:33.35
Mike
Hmm.
01:07:36.30
Bill
I mean, that's just, I don't like stupid people, you know, but
01:07:36.71
Mike
Right.
01:07:39.93
Bill
um You know, but people, I've i've been called, can't even, I've been called a lot of shit. I just, nine times out of 10, I laugh, because I'm like, it's fucking hilarious, you know?
01:07:45.03
Mike
Sure.
01:07:47.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:07:48.68
Bill
um But, yeah it's like, ah yeah and ah it again, times when I wish I could say what I wanted, like, that's that's fucking good, but it doesn't bother me.
01:07:49.50
Mike
If you only do.
01:07:56.85
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:07:59.03
Bill
Come on, what do you got?
01:07:59.81
Mike
Right.
01:08:00.28
Bill
You know, I said, but my best friend says worse to me than that. Come on, what else but else you got?
01:08:02.70
Mike
Right.
01:08:04.79
Bill
That's, you know, that that's fucking hilarious.
01:08:07.17
Mike
Right.
01:08:07.28
Bill
um But you know, the the thing of it is, and we talked about, you know, again, the the growth and back to the love and all that stuff.
01:08:12.13
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:08:14.86
Bill
The I have I'm more, again, discerning, we talked about, you know, um but my circle smaller and all those different things.
01:08:18.21
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:08:22.18
Bill
But when when I open up to somebody now ah that I feel safe with, you know, and feel comfortable with, then I'm all fucking open.
01:08:22.64
Mike
Sure.
01:08:25.29
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:08:29.56
Mike
Right.
01:08:31.42
Bill
You know, I because I, you know, um I sit down on the outskirts a little bit, you know, I'm like, is person okay and you touch and you pick and you, you know, ask questions and all of a sudden it's like, okay, this person's fucking cool, you know?
01:08:31.55
Mike
Oh yeah.
01:08:42.46
Bill
So it's, everything's all open, you know?
01:08:44.58
Mike
Right.
01:08:45.02
Bill
Those are the times that I could get my feelings hurt. Cause I think people, if, but again, hopefully I'm not hanging around those type of people like you, for instance, you would, you could easily hurt my feelings if you know too much about me, you know, where you could, if you, if you wanted to be evil to me, you could, Kathy could be, Dawn could be, my kids could be.
01:08:49.73
Mike
Right.
01:08:54.99
Mike
yeah right
01:09:00.40
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure. Right. Sure.
01:09:03.33
Bill
you know, people that I'm close to like that, but I mean, again, I don't surround myself with people that are that way, you know?
01:09:08.14
Mike
We're gonna do that, right?
01:09:10.01
Bill
Yeah, so, um but in those situations, again, you talk about, let's go back to dating apps and these relationships or whatever, if somebody gets fucking weird like that, And again, does it hurt my feelings?
01:09:20.33
Bill
Or does it just shock me because, or maybe make me mad, which goes back to anger is fear, fear being hurt, all those sort of things.
01:09:22.48
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.
01:09:28.05
Bill
um But sometimes I'm like, how the fuck did I let myself get into that? you know um how How did I not see that?
01:09:33.22
Mike
Mhmm. Mhmm. Right.
01:09:36.34
Bill
you know Then I wanna close up again and be like, okay, next time I need to do a couple of more things.
01:09:39.60
Mike
Mhmm.
01:09:43.16
Bill
But um but again, i I can be heard on a personal level, but only if I'm with somebody who I truly, again, love and care about and that I've opened myself up to.
01:09:50.31
Mike
Right.
01:09:51.13
Bill
But once again, those are the people, if those things happen, I think those are outside of our control, if we wanna use the word control, um because we've done the work and we've done the homework.
01:10:01.79
Bill
um Those people, you know those individuals, shouldn't we shouldn't have those issues as we do. That's on the other person still, not us, right?
01:10:09.45
Mike
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, and, and, you know, i when you say get your feelings hurt, get my feelings hurt, right? It's like, you're not gonna fucking, nobody's gonna hurt my feelings anymore.
01:10:22.86
Mike
They're just not, it's not gonna happen.
01:10:23.88
Bill
Right.
01:10:24.42
Mike
you know what i When I feel that pain, when it's it's fucking empathy, which we've talked about out here. you know At one point it came up, what can I do to improve myself, be more empathetic?
01:10:35.85
Bill
Right.
01:10:36.00
Mike
um Absolutely. you know when my When I have pain, when I have bad feelings, it's generally because someone I care about is hurt. That's when,
01:10:47.68
Mike
You're not going to hurt my feelings. My feelings are fucking Teflon. you know but and My feelings don't fucking matter. I've trained myself over these. you know I don't have the pity parties. i don't I just don't.
01:10:58.80
Mike
It's one of the beautiful byproducts of this program. My feelings don't fucking matter. My feelings are whatever. You can't hurt them because they're not that important.
01:11:10.96
Mike
When someone that I care about is hurting, that's when I feel pain today.
01:11:15.69
Bill
Right.
01:11:16.32
Mike
Yeah, it's not me. Fucking, what are you gonna do to me, man? I already did it all to myself. yeah Seriously, I've done it all to myself.
01:11:25.16
Bill
Right.
01:11:26.04
Mike
Nobody can fucking hurt me. I could put myself in a situation where I could be hurt, but I'm not going to. um I know better today.
01:11:34.30
Bill
Right.
01:11:35.83
Mike
No, it's when i when I'm truly sad when when I hurt, when I feel pain today, it's because someone I care about is hurting and is having a problem and is in pain. and that fucking, and generally nine times out of 10, there's nothing I can fucking do about it because I didn't cause it.
01:11:51.72
Bill
Right.
01:11:51.77
Mike
And, you know, all I can do is be there and and go, it's going to be all right. As long as you hang out with me, it's going to be all right. And and then back that up. So yeah, that's, yeah, fuck it.
01:12:07.37
Bill
Yeah, but that ah that is a that's a good that's a good way to put it in and thinking about that too, because the same deal, I mean, like when I said somebody can hurt my feelings, maybe I'm putting that the wrong way. No, I'm thinking about it.
01:12:18.67
Bill
Because it it makes me bad. You know, if, if somebody, um if I allow or put myself in a position where I don't know. I mean, I can't even figure out the way, the right way to put it. Somebody says something, somebody close to me that hits me the wrong way or whatever the case is, it probably, maybe it shocks me more than hurts me.
01:12:36.09
Bill
It doesn't, I don't know, or surprises me, disappoints me.
01:12:36.50
Mike
Right.
01:12:38.84
Mike
Right.
01:12:39.61
Bill
I don't even know.
01:12:40.01
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:12:41.04
Bill
You know, I just, I don't, I guess I don't really know. So it doesn't happen that much. But, um, if it, if it's going to happen, it's in a personal relationship, some random fucking person on the street with some goddamn politician or some dude at a grocery store or whatever.
01:12:44.59
Mike
Right.
01:12:49.94
Mike
Yeah.
01:12:53.04
Mike
Uh-huh. Some celebrity or whatever, right.
01:12:55.16
Bill
Yeah. and I mean, you know, somebody driving down the road or cuts me off or whatever the case is, you get that, that typical, ro you bastard motherfucker, you know, but, um, I mean, yeah, what I'm right.
01:13:02.09
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. but All day, every day.
01:13:05.78
Bill
Yeah. But again, that's what are you, what are you going to do?
01:13:07.22
Mike
You fucking moron and I feel bad for them because they're so fucking stupid.
01:13:09.27
Bill
yeah
01:13:12.84
Bill
yeah at least i'm not that goddamn stupid right at least not today yeah not at this moment right but um yeah just saying i don't know it just it was one of those things where um as i read it it was a thinking moment again and it and like i said it just surprised me so you got a couple more in here for the twitter for our book but i'll i'll leave those for for another day so
01:13:14.68
Mike
Yep. Exactly. Great. Yep.
01:13:34.49
Bill
the The thing I wanted to, um this was a this was a news story, okay? Well, first of all, do you wanna hear an insult? Kimmy sent me this, that she, it was a meme, either a meme or somebody said it or whatever it says.
01:13:42.62
Mike
he I always love a good insult.
01:13:49.80
Bill
Yeah, and um it says that if if brain eating bacteria got into your head, it would starve.
01:13:57.13
Mike
starve yep
01:13:59.89
Bill
Yeah, everybody, my daughter said that to me and she's, it was, I think it was in a meme or whatever. I just started laughing. I'm like, I need to save this. I'm putting this up on the, I need to put this up, you know, talk about this on the podcast. It just it did. It just fucking made me laugh. I think I've ever heard that before, but all right. So this, um when I was talking about the hiking story, this was a new story. Okay. And let me pull this up. It was about a hiker and this was in,
01:14:25.53
Bill
Tennessee, I believe, probably in one of the areas that I was in, but let me get into this let me get into this story.
01:14:29.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:14:33.35
Bill
Okay, so man arrested, so you you know it's gonna it's not gonna turn out well, okay?
01:14:38.29
Mike
Aha.
01:14:40.77
Bill
Man arrested in killing that was falsely blamed on a bear.
01:14:46.07
Mike
Aha.
01:14:48.41
Bill
So um this was just this week, November 11th that this this story came out. So a man accused of murder after a 911 call about a fake bear attack in the mountains of Tennessee led authorities to a dead man last or last month, has been found and arrested.
01:14:54.71
Mike
her
01:15:04.10
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:15:05.26
Bill
So the dude was on the run obviously after the fact.
01:15:07.68
Mike
Great.
01:15:08.47
Bill
But so what the dude did actually called 911, got dispatchers out there. So the sheriff's department shows up and it says the sharing of Oh, I'm sorry, let me get to the actual story.
01:15:20.76
Bill
The case became began when a man claiming ah to be this particular person that was dead. Okay, so this guy called as the dead guy. Okay, the guy that ended up being dead, called 911 and claimed that he was injured after he was chased by a bear and fell off a cliff.
01:15:30.02
Mike
Okay. Uh huh.
01:15:37.65
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
01:15:40.77
Bill
Okay, so the authorities show up. The body was found, or a body was found, with the idea of this this dude that you know supposedly had made the phone call, but it wasn't.
01:15:44.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
01:15:51.09
Bill
But it wasn't him, um because his identity had been stolen and used multiple times. The purse was also not killed by a bear. Detectives laid eyes on the body injuries of the deceased, um not consistent with the bear attack, certainly not consistent even with a fall.
01:16:07.97
Bill
Cause of death was found to be blunt force trauma to the head, okay? So so here's here's this here's his fucking brainchild, okay?
01:16:11.35
Mike
um
01:16:16.44
Bill
So let's let's use let's use you you and I, okay? So we we go out for a hike, okay?
01:16:22.48
Mike
Okay.
01:16:22.53
Bill
And for for whatever reason, you've agreed to it, number one. So let's just, again, this is a made up, we already know it's a made up story, but now I got really fucking made up, because mike Mike went on a hike with me.
01:16:31.18
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.
01:16:34.26
Mike
this is
01:16:34.98
Bill
So we go on a hike, and for whatever reason I want you dead, okay?
01:16:38.46
Mike
Alright.
01:16:38.60
Bill
um Maybe there's several reasons, but at least one.
01:16:40.72
Mike
At least one.
01:16:43.01
Bill
so So my bright idea is to beat you over the head, I'm gonna lay you at the bottom of one of these cliffs, because clearly that's what happened, because it said it was not even you know ah consistent with a fall,
01:16:46.76
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Right. You didn't even throw them off, right?
01:16:55.12
Bill
and so so apparently i'm gonna lay you gently at the bottom of the thing beat you in the head and then say you were attacked by a bear 911 and i'm gonna call as you dishes mike here where i'm dying and then then i die you know you die and i i steal your identity so
01:16:58.39
Mike
yeah
01:17:08.80
Mike
Uh-huh. Okay.
01:17:13.06
Bill
And I'm like, they're talking about it on the radio. They're like, wait a second. because When they were first reading it, they were reading it as the way they thought the story was was reading out was that the guy somehow got a bear to attack his friend, obviously to cover up.
01:17:26.84
Bill
And they're like, how does he fucking coordinate this?
01:17:28.50
Mike
Hmm.
01:17:30.25
Bill
Then they're like, no, no, no, that that dead didn't even happen to me. He just claimed it was, hi, i ah I fell off a cliff. I'm being chased by a bear, blah, blah, blah. so I don't know. I mean, the the foresight and all of this stuff is just there's, well, finally he got caught, obviously, because he's, you know, sold the guy's identity.
01:17:44.21
Mike
Well, yeah.
01:17:45.89
Bill
yeah But I've been to a number of these places, okay, with these cliffs.
01:17:50.11
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:17:53.03
Bill
And this might be a sick thought, but I mean, right off the bat, I'm like, all you have to do is fucking take somebody out there and fucking push them off a cliff.
01:17:59.82
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.
01:18:03.17
Bill
fucking case closed, you know?
01:18:04.56
Mike
yeah Sure.
01:18:05.02
Bill
if If I really, so here's how this could go. Hey, Mike, you wanna go on a hike? And again, for every goddamn reason, you say yes.
01:18:12.19
Mike
Yay.
01:18:12.78
Bill
and i'm like And I'm like, make sure you bring your wallet. And you're like, why would I wanna bring my wallet? So now I gotta make up some excuse. Well, you gotta have your ID in case, I don't know, getting into the park, they need the ID.
01:18:25.59
Bill
That could happen. It's never happened to all the places I've been, but it could.
01:18:26.75
Mike
Sure.
01:18:29.19
Mike
Sure.
01:18:30.06
Bill
You got your credit cards with you, right?
01:18:32.02
Mike
Sure.
01:18:34.03
Bill
Why do I need my credit cards?
01:18:35.54
Mike
ha Yeah.
01:18:35.95
Bill
Well, again, sometimes there's fees. They they do they credit cards. Okay. One last thing, Mike, can you grab, you got your social security card with you, right?
01:18:41.94
Mike
Yes. Always.
01:18:46.46
Bill
Great.
01:18:49.59
Bill
Now I get you to the top, one of these fucking overlooks, I'm like, Mike, take a selfie right there and I just fucking kick you with the chest.
01:18:49.95
Mike
La, la, la, la, la.
01:18:59.19
Bill
So you're taking a selfie, I kick you with the chest.
01:18:59.68
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:19:01.79
Bill
When they find you, your phone, you could see a selfie and you're like, but so you just, and then ah I call 911 and say, my my friend was taking a selfie and he fell off the wall.
01:19:05.35
Mike
ah Right.
01:19:11.63
Mike
Yeah.
01:19:11.97
Bill
Now here's the thing though, how do I steal your identity?
01:19:16.43
Mike
Right.
01:19:16.99
Bill
I mean, at that point, unless...
01:19:18.14
Mike
Well, why, okay, so there's the huge question I have is, you call is this guy, you say he's dead, and then you take his identity.
01:19:22.00
Bill
Right.
01:19:27.97
Mike
You've already proven that he's dead. You've you've reported that he's dead.
01:19:30.78
Bill
Right?
01:19:33.24
Bill
I know.
01:19:34.05
Mike
why that Okay, clearly this guy is really fucking smart.
01:19:34.22
Bill
I know.
01:19:39.02
Bill
I know, it just...
01:19:39.60
Mike
No, what you say is, hi, I'm um me. Okay, so let's do this, right? You take me out there, you call and you say, hi, my name's Bill.
01:19:51.34
Mike
I'm falling off a fucking cliff, right? And then you become me. So you throw me off, you say that it was you, and again,
01:19:57.78
Bill
Right.
01:20:03.21
Bill
It still doesn't work, right?
01:20:04.87
Mike
Well, I mean, it worked a little better, at least until they figure out that it's not, yeah, right.
01:20:04.94
Bill
you know see right I mean, the that see the only thing that I could do, is a figure if even
01:20:12.55
Mike
I'm pretty sure my fingerprints are on file somewhere.
01:20:16.16
Bill
right I gotta to tell you, remind me of Kylie ah in a minute, I'll tell you about that.
01:20:20.38
Mike
they
01:20:20.45
Bill
but to So the worst case scenario is that if I do, get all this stuff sets up and you brought your whatever, so I still, after I kick you off the cliff, you know and i so I got that part done, now I gotta get all the way down to the bottom of the cliff, that is the easy part.
01:20:27.31
Mike
Uh-huh. Sure. That's the easy part.
01:20:36.91
Bill
Hey, dumbass, take a selfie. I like taking selfies so yeah sure bill and then so i just you know again chest kick you and you're off the cliff that's again easy part but now like this one cliff that i was in these one place it was it was a 750 foot cliff okay now i yeah i was gonna say that step one done no issues no issues at all but your wallet
01:20:41.65
Mike
Sure.
01:20:52.85
Mike
and All right. That'll do it.
01:21:03.09
Bill
is with you.
01:21:04.14
Mike
Yeah.
01:21:04.47
Bill
it So all this work that I did to try to have you bring all your shit, I'm like, well, fuck it. I'm peering over the edge. I'm like, how the fuck do I get down there? So now I gotta to figure out how to get down there and this and that, oh, it's just a fucking mess.
01:21:16.83
Bill
In worst case scenario, then I gotta go all the way back up and I'm tired.
01:21:16.82
Mike
Right.
01:21:20.41
Bill
Now I'm gonna call 911 and it's been two hours since I just kicked you off off the fucking cliff, which, you know, time, eh, what does it matter, right?
01:21:28.09
Mike
Right.
01:21:28.19
Bill
um But still, I'm gonna be stuck in this fucking cliff explaining the story and, you know, with the police, so probably the whatever. So I can't even start stealing your identity or at least charging up credit cards and doing something until the next day.
01:21:40.15
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:21:40.40
Bill
And then I can't, then I gotta go. You know, I'm done.
01:21:44.26
Mike
Right.
01:21:44.62
Bill
I gotta run. I mean, I can't just hang out and be like, no, it wasn't me. Must have been Mike.
01:21:48.16
Mike
who
01:21:49.17
Bill
Well, wait a second. He fell off a cliff on Saturday and he was at fucking Best Buy on Wednesday?
01:21:52.20
Mike
Right. Uh huh.
01:21:55.73
Mike
Yep.
01:21:56.88
Bill
Yep. I don't know. Power greater than himself was there, I guess.
01:22:00.47
Mike
Yeah.
01:22:02.20
Bill
But no, I'm listening to this. I'm like, Oh, this guy's, ah this guy's one of the, I mean, always, always, always, you know, people say that, you know, criminals, that they just worked as, as, as hard at trying to figure out these fucking quote unquote perfect crimes.
01:22:14.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:22:15.25
Bill
You know, if they just worked a goddamn job, you know what to think about all they might be able to accomplish, but maybe not. If they're not stupid, trying to, it's just, none of this made any sense to me.
01:22:22.82
Mike
No, none of it makes any sense.
01:22:23.86
Bill
None of it.
01:22:25.66
Mike
No.
01:22:26.31
Bill
And that's why the only thing that I might be able to do if I were to convince, again, you, my good friend, Mike, to come up on a hike with me, I might be able to kick you off the cliff.
01:22:31.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:22:35.04
Mike
All right.
01:22:37.32
Bill
That's about it. But even that, there could be people around, so I gotta wait for the perfect moment, then all of a sudden, you go over to the other side, then I see people walking on the trail, I'm like, well, fuck, I'm never getting this out here again, so I gotta figure this out now.
01:22:50.42
Mike
Right.
01:22:51.86
Bill
It's a bad plan.
01:22:53.94
Mike
Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, exactly. Go get a job.
01:22:59.16
Bill
Yes, go get a job. So yeah, with the, like you said, with the fingerprints and stuff like that. So um Kylie was back here last weekend and she's going with ah Evan over Thanksgiving.
01:23:09.48
Bill
They're going down to Disney World with his family.
01:23:12.06
Mike
Oh, cool.
01:23:13.21
Bill
So are you, yeah, we still gotta figure out Thanksgiving stuff.
01:23:15.84
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:23:16.45
Bill
But um, so she was I don't know getting going to do the TSA pre-board thing whatever and and then she's like ah she was About to walk I was here sitting here in the bedroom and the door opened She's like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go give the government my fingerprints as she's walking down the stairs I'm like like fuck they already got mine and she's laughing.
01:23:22.10
Mike
Sure.
01:23:33.56
Bill
I'm like I'm like several times she she's laughing again and I said and it wasn't for any fun reasons either and I've never given my fingerprints.
01:23:35.93
Mike
Yeah.
01:23:39.02
Mike
awesome Right.
01:23:42.06
Bill
Well, maybe I did when I had to get a license one time for work, but um like a state license, I think I had to get fingerprinted for. But other than that, I've never been I've never been fingerprinted for fun.
01:23:52.39
Bill
It's usually been, you know, they take off the they take off the cuffs and they're fingerprinting me.
01:23:52.75
Mike
No. <unk> Yeah. Yeah. It's been my experience.
01:24:00.72
Bill
So have you ever um been fingerprinted by one of the electronic ones where you didn't have to do the ink?
01:24:06.44
Mike
Um, I don't think so.
01:24:14.09
Bill
the uh the last ah again thankfully the the last time i got arrested um it was at uh i was i at the Menominee Hall Police Department or walk shot or whichever one it was they're like um yeah they're like here we go electronic one and lay down the machines down he's like oh i have to do the do it the old-fashioned way i'm like well what's the other one you know i mean i didn't know
01:24:24.36
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:24:33.56
Mike
Right.
01:24:33.78
Bill
Thankfully, I hadn't I think the last time I had been fingerprinted had been a little bit but um, you know, he's like, yeah, he goes it's like trying to keep knowing whatever he's just food food food food I'm like, really?
01:24:41.56
Mike
Right.
01:24:42.25
Bill
I'm like, well, at least if I was gonna get arrested, I got the cool machine and the cop the cop kind of giggled he kind of giggled what I said it, you know, I'm like, gotta look at the bright side, you know, whatever.
01:24:46.19
Mike
Right.
01:24:52.02
Mike
Yeah.
01:24:53.62
Bill
But yeah, no, I've just had the you know, take where they fucking take your hand. and ro this what So yeah, anyhow, but um,
01:24:57.30
Mike
Nope.
01:25:01.34
Mike
Nope. No, thankfully it's been ah over 15 years since, uh, yeah.
01:25:05.68
Bill
Yeah, it's, it's been a little while, been a while.
01:25:07.26
Mike
Imagine that.
01:25:09.08
Bill
Yeah.
01:25:09.21
Mike
fifteen sense
01:25:09.28
Bill
Like I always said, I've been, I've been arrested five times in my life and not one of them since I've been sober.
01:25:13.72
Mike
Nope.
01:25:14.21
Bill
I barely, I barely even been yelled at since I've been sober.
01:25:14.39
Mike
No.
01:25:17.18
Mike
i know Right.
01:25:20.52
Bill
Let alone, you know, pulled over or, you know, beaten by, you know, not even manhandled by a fucking cop or something or whatever.
01:25:23.80
Mike
Yeah. No, I'm beaten.
01:25:26.62
Bill
So yeah, I never, I never got beat.
01:25:27.22
Mike
Yeah.
01:25:29.91
Mike
This may surprise you, but I was a little mouthy when I was drunk.
01:25:30.10
Bill
I got,
01:25:34.22
Bill
Yeah, well, twice. Well, the first time I got arrested was underage drinking. And I don't know if I ever told you that, because it was the last physical day of high school.
01:25:48.00
Bill
And there was this party that a bunch of us went out to. And two of our friends were 18, so they rented a hotel room. And we're just getting working fucking drink all night.
01:25:55.64
Mike
Right.
01:25:57.00
Bill
And then go to graduation practice the next morning.
01:25:57.06
Mike
Yep.
01:25:59.87
Mike
Right.
01:26:00.83
Bill
And Pam and I had just gotten together then, too. So it was me and a bunch of my friends. We ended up getting kicked out of the hotel.
01:26:06.66
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:26:08.57
Bill
So all we were going to do, we weren't driving anywhere. Just going to sit in the car. Me and my buddy, we were sitting in the car. He had a Mustang. We were sitting in his car drinking.
01:26:16.14
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:26:16.29
Bill
And we got hungry, of course. So um we're like, oh, we're going to get some food. And at that time, had no idea what time it was. Neither one of us had a watch on clearly, no cell phones back in the mid 80s.
01:26:26.64
Mike
Right.
01:26:28.01
Bill
So we're just walking down the street, you know, the couple of fast food restaurants were closed. We're going down to a gas station, kind of like ah um almost like a, yeah what about a giant eagle?
01:26:36.49
Mike
Gecko, right?
01:26:36.96
Bill
What is the yeah a get go? concept of that you know fucking cop rolls up on us and it's it's I don't know what time it was probably midnight there's a cur curfew in Waukesha for like 11 p.m.
01:26:43.43
Mike
All right.
01:26:48.31
Bill
so they're asking us whatever I got my fake ID on me I'm lying about who I am this and that my buddy's not saying anything being completely truthful I'm just I'm lying fucking lied smart mouth whatever oh when they when they cuffed me whoo they made sure they fit they made sure they were snug
01:26:48.69
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:26:55.26
Mike
ahha
01:26:58.81
Mike
Right.
01:27:01.34
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Mm hmm.
01:27:06.65
Bill
as a male and a female cop and they were they were having none of me and then I was supposed to be out in a condom walk which is 20 miles one way I was out in Waukesha 20 miles the other way mom gets a call at whatever time you know fucking one one or 30 or two in the morning then I'm in the fucking Waukesha jail has to come pick me up and then all the way home she's like and they're telling me that I was with my buddy Lee and She's like, tell me that, you know, Lee was being fine, but you were mouthy and you weren't cooperative and you were this and that blah, blah, blah.
01:27:10.12
Mike
Uh huh.
01:27:21.92
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:27:30.50
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. see of
01:27:36.68
Bill
And I was just like, I'm fucking loaded, man. I was like, whatever, man.
01:27:39.24
Mike
he
01:27:40.05
Bill
I hear this shit right now.
01:27:42.15
Mike
ah ha
01:27:42.39
Bill
I mean, none of it, but yeah. So you were a little mouthy too, huh?
01:27:46.07
Mike
Oh, yeah. Did you ever hear of a pro straight chair?
01:27:51.43
Bill
um i I don't know why it sounds familiar, but explain.
01:27:54.19
Mike
Mm hmm. Ah, well, it's this chair that they strap you into.
01:28:01.36
Bill
ah
01:28:01.38
Mike
Yeah, I was actually it was ah I had I was fucking pretty damn close to being in a blackout, very browned, got off a bus.
01:28:11.72
Mike
I was going to see this girl I was seeing at the time um and ah I'm walking across the parking lot and there's a couple of sheriffs standing there. And they were like, go hey, you know clearly I was intoxicated.
01:28:25.41
Mike
They were like, let's let's see your ID.
01:28:26.11
Bill
yeah
01:28:27.86
Mike
and I don't have to show you my ID, you fucking Nazis. yeah Yeah, they didn't like that too much. so yeah they they ah yeah they Threw me in the back of the car, took me to the county jail, put me in the pro-straint chair, um and several hours later, apparently they didn't put me in all as tight as they thought they did. I had gotten myself mostly out of it. but I mean, I was still handcuffed. I had brought my arms from behind me, over my head, and um'm so I'm still sitting in the chair, but my arms were in front of me now. They're supposed to be behind me.
01:29:05.74
Mike
And yeah, one of them stuck their head in the cell and I i waved to him. Oh, they didn't like that. So yeah, they tune me up a little bit more and put me back in the chair the right way and tighten me down real good.
01:29:22.45
Mike
Left me in there for another shit, probably five or six hours. and Oh yeah.
01:29:27.75
Bill
ah
01:29:28.85
Mike
a oh right And you know what? There's no record of it anywhere.
01:29:35.20
Bill
Oh, isn't that nice?
01:29:35.73
Mike
Yeah, they, yeah, they let me go after, uh, probably about 12 hours or so. They just fucking kicked me back out onto the street and there's no record of me being there. um so
01:29:46.95
Bill
That's, I mean, that's, that's kind of scary too, you know?
01:29:49.11
Mike
Oh yeah.
01:29:50.08
Bill
Yeah.
01:29:50.22
Mike
but
01:29:50.28
Bill
What do you think about that? They're like, yeah, you could have fucking disappeared. Yeah, the only the only other time is i got I got arrested at a bar was with, and I think I talked about this, but Pam and I were there and she drank too much and went in the women's bathroom with her into a stall because she was going to throw up and I got manhandled out of there and cops called domestic situation.
01:30:07.11
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:30:08.99
Bill
So I got arrested and it wasn't, we weren't fighting.
01:30:10.91
Mike
Right.
01:30:11.38
Bill
you know It was like the one night in three years that we hadn't been fighting, you know I ended up in fucking jail and I was so unruly when they took me in, same thing.
01:30:11.57
Mike
Right. yeah
01:30:18.89
Mike
and since
01:30:20.82
Bill
I was i was telling the cop to fucking fight me. in in the jail i mean get right up to him like god you fucking you fucking idiot fucking and this big dude too i remember and he just stood there and i'm like god should i should i he could have fucking killed me but they didn't even process me that night they just put me in the shell shut it
01:30:23.40
Mike
Right. like Right. Right. Uh huh. Yep.
01:30:37.36
Mike
Nope.
01:30:39.25
Bill
um You know this and I remember it it was a single one with a door not the bars or anything like that I'm yelling and screaming out the fucking window and um When again that the day the day cop morning cop comes in and and gets me and he's like, yeah He goes apparently I got a process you and he's looking at the notes and he said it's like looking at this He's looking at me and I'm being like, you know, yes officer, whatever.
01:31:01.10
Mike
right
01:31:01.14
Bill
Thank you. No. Thank you. And he said So who was this guy last night? And you know, literally he's like, he goes, number one, the way you look, the way you're acting right now. And I'm like, yeah, it was a night, you know, that's all so I could say.
01:31:12.67
Mike
Right.
01:31:14.47
Bill
I mean, cause I wasn't, I wasn't that, I wasn't the same guy as I was, you know, fucking eight hours or six hours earlier, you know?
01:31:14.46
Mike
right
01:31:20.67
Mike
Right. so Real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation. I think I read that somewhere.
01:31:26.99
Bill
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like I said, yeah, they didn't even get the guy. Same thing. Speaking of fingerprinting, he didn't fingerprint me a piece. He processed me literally processed me the the next morning because I was too unruly to deal with.
01:31:34.73
Mike
and
01:31:37.38
Mike
Nope.
01:31:38.57
Bill
And they're like, fuck this dude. Get in there, fucker.
01:31:40.90
Mike
Nope.
01:31:43.45
Bill
Anyhow. Uh, so as we, yes, we end that up with, uh, with drunk stories, speaking of speaking about gratitude month, like yeah, pretty fucking grateful.
01:31:44.75
Mike
Good times.
01:31:50.16
Mike
hey
01:31:52.24
Bill
I don't have to deal with that shit anymore.
01:31:53.58
Mike
out
01:31:53.72
Bill
How about you, Mike? but
01:31:55.17
Mike
I'm grateful I don't have to live that way today.
01:31:58.18
Bill
Exactly. so All right, man. Your turn.
01:32:01.44
Mike
Ah, wow. Hey, well.
01:32:05.73
Bill
did Didn't mean to surprise you already. We can keep talking.
01:32:07.78
Mike
That's it, no, no, I'm about done.
01:32:08.25
Bill
You you want to keep talking? All right. yeah
01:32:13.30
Mike
All right, well thank you everyone for listening to a another episode of sober, not mature. As always be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.
01:32:28.68
Mike
And now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time till the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you. And now it's time, kids. It is that time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Well, i'll keep fucking off till you get to that gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.
01:32:53.76
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream your impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.
01:33:02.86
Bill
Got one more quick thing to say. So one of our followers messaged, up remember the beeping and stuff I was talking about the intro, blah, blah, blah.
01:33:07.57
Mike
Ah, yes.
01:33:09.03
Bill
Yeah, so he messaged and Al Fitz. Do you know who Alice? He's one of our Instagram. I don't know if he's a fake Facebook follower.
01:33:13.62
Mike
He doesn't fit me.
01:33:15.47
Bill
Okay. But anyhow, Al, thank you for listening.
01:33:19.03
Mike
What does the outfit?
01:33:20.61
Bill
But yeah, so he'll he'll message every once in a while. I think he's commented on shit, but it seems like a nice guy But he said he goes first of all, you know, he goes I i like the intro he goes I know all of them He goes pretty much by heart, you know now and then he goes so he goes I think it's great He said but he goes the ending with the whole breeze thing.
01:33:23.11
Mike
Okay.
01:33:26.29
Mike
Okay.
01:33:37.45
Bill
He says that kind of freaks me out a little bit yeah so let's just be the for god
01:33:39.19
Mike
yeah Right.
01:33:44.59
Bill
But, uh, but I said, I just got to laugh that I said, well, thank you. And I said, it's all, all that shit's in the first easily, the first six months, our clips from our intro.
01:33:47.35
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:33:52.18
Bill
And I just kind of put classic, whatever, blah, blah, blah. He, uh, messaged back. Cause I thanked him obviously for his comment and he goes, yeah, no problem.
01:33:57.38
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:33:59.01
Bill
And he goes, yeah. He goes, those fuckers better appreciate it, which is, yeah, which is your line, your line through the one of the intros.
01:34:01.51
Mike
Yeah, nice.
01:34:05.69
Mike
Right.
01:34:06.81
Bill
So yeah.
01:34:07.07
Mike
I know. Yes. Well, Al, you fucker, thank you for appreciating it.
01:34:11.84
Bill
Yeah, exactly. All right, man. So um I think we're done. Well, I know we're done, but I know we'll talk soon.
01:34:16.42
Mike
Mm hmm.
01:34:18.18
Bill
How's that?
01:34:18.64
Mike
We shall love you, too.
01:34:19.45
Bill
All right. Love you, brother. Bye.
01:34:22.73
Mike
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