SoberNotMature - Episode 155 (Did Your Goat See Its Shadow?)

00:00:01.33
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature and we're back in our normal time slot i'm back in my normal time time zone my real time not your real time or not the real time but uh yeah you know it it was actually kind of fucked up a little bit because i'm like i really had to look at the clock all the time but

00:00:09.97
Mike
We are. Right.

00:00:21.20
Mike
Right.

00:00:22.59
Bill
Again, what time do I go to bed? What time do I gotta get up? All this different shit, I'm like, do I have this figured out, right? You know, God forbid I, well, I mean, you know, for for a month I was in mountain time, which again was cool.

00:00:27.66
Mike
is

00:00:31.92
Bill
It was cool-ish, you know, it was fine.

00:00:32.52
Mike
right

00:00:34.52
Bill
But um yeah, i got I got some stuff. um We actually have, I have a ah small bag of mail that we can read off this week, I know.

00:00:42.28
Mike
Ooh, right.

00:00:43.29
Bill
I sent you a couple of them, but yeah, new new listeners, people actually listen to us um and send some emails.

00:00:47.87
Mike
Wow.

00:00:49.12
Bill
So real quick before we'll get into those in a little bit, but um same deal. If you're a new listener and we'd be very interested, we had a handful of people that emailed us and I mean, quite honestly, we don't get a lot of email.

00:01:02.04
Bill
We don't get a lot of messages.

00:01:02.62
Mike
No.

00:01:04.19
Bill
And it's fine. I mean, when we do there, it's nice, you know, because it's not like we're getting flooded with them, right?

00:01:07.95
Mike
Yes, absolutely.

00:01:10.25
Bill
You know, but um I don't know, it just kind of makes us.

00:01:10.67
Mike
yeah That'd be nice too.

00:01:14.61
Bill
Yeah, it would. But you know what, with with getting a handful of emails, I don't know, it's I kind of feel like a hot chick, you know, it's like, you know,

00:01:20.39
Mike
yeah Right.

00:01:21.79
Bill
i' I've never felt that way before. I'm like, oh, this is what this is what hot chicks feel like. You know, having people like like send them DMs and stuff like that.

00:01:26.26
Mike
Ah.

00:01:29.49
Bill
I'm like, ooh, people sliding into our email.

00:01:29.68
Mike
things Nice.

00:01:33.35
Bill
But no, it was kind of cool. But yeah, a couple of things about obviously the area I'm at. I'll i'll i'll tease it with, ah there's a screaming cock in the area. So we'll we'll get to the we'll get to that.

00:01:41.45
Mike
Nice.

00:01:43.66
Bill
I went to the canyon last weekend. So um yeah, it's just been been actually been a pretty good week. So I'm heading to the,

00:01:49.19
Mike
Cool.

00:01:50.08
Bill
and to the Ozarks tomorrow we were just talking about lack of sleep on Saturdays and yeah if I'll be up at I'm leaving here probably like five in the morning um which again it's just it's like my normal thing now I don't I don't really I don't know it's it's not a big deal I guess I just don't sleep anymore

00:02:00.79
Mike
Right.

00:02:05.99
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, that that I think the older we get, the less sleep we need.

00:02:11.22
Bill
Yeah. You know what? Sometimes that's true. I can deal with it. You know, it's not like I'm falling asleep while I'm driving or anything like that, thankfully.

00:02:15.66
Mike
All right.

00:02:18.20
Bill
Um, you know, but I'll be tired and it's usually by the time I get there, by the time I go to bed on a Saturday night, um, you know, it's, I've had plenty of, there's been more Saturday nights since I've been sober recently, um, that I'm like, you know, fucking nodding off on the couch.

00:02:34.21
Mike
you

00:02:35.34
Bill
I mean, that used to happen all the time when I was fucking drunk, you know, but.

00:02:37.76
Mike
Well, sure.

00:02:40.02
Bill
I told you that before, Dawn tried to wake me up, and apparently I would get into some fucking raging fit, so she'd just leave me there. Why'd you leave me on the fucking couch?

00:02:46.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:48.38
Bill
She's like, because you're a dick when I tried to wake you up.

00:02:50.10
Mike
Great.

00:02:53.27
Bill
All right, so um yeah, i got I got some news stories too, some some fun stuff that I came across, but hidden normal shit. But yeah, I don't know. it's um um Looking forward to getting to the mail thing just because it's kind of something new, but we have, I don't want to say, is it more important?

00:03:04.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:07.52
Bill
It's tradition, it's structure. The only thing that we have that's structured in this fucking podcast is that reading every week.

00:03:10.83
Mike
Right.

00:03:14.23
Mike
Yes.

00:03:15.05
Bill
so And for that, we're going to turn to our friend, Mike.

00:03:15.34
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:19.10
Bill
Mike, over to you.

00:03:19.86
Mike
Well, thanks, Bill.

00:03:23.53
Mike
Well, here yeah, all right man enough of that crap too ah Yes, I I have a reading I do is once ah keep it simple it's from yesterday I liked it. I said when I read it yesterday morning as a hell that'll do for the podcast. So here it is February 6th We will not know unless we begin. Howard Zinn, apparently he was a playwright, historian, and a couple other things. All right, um let us begin. Whether it be working on our first step, finding a sponsor, or talking to someone we've hurt, let let us begin. Doubt will set in if we wait too long. Fear will follow, so let us begin.

00:04:13.71
Mike
We learn by doing recovery is for doers. Sobriety doesn't just happen. We create it. We create it by working the steps and learning from them. We'll never totally understand the steps unless we work them. Uh, in the same way, we'll never learn how to have friends unless we try. So call your friends instead of waiting to be called, begin and begin again. Each day is a new beginning.

00:04:44.31
Mike
prayer for the day, higher power. Today I'll begin. I'll begin by asking for your help and love. Be with me as I go through my day. Help me to work for progress, not perfection. Action for the day. Ah, those pesky actions. Uh, today I will not sit on the sidelines. I'll be a doer. I'll decide what to do to move closer to friends, family, higher power, and myself.

00:05:15.55
Bill
All right, so let's start with you today. Were you a doer?

00:05:21.18
Mike
um Yeah, I was. um you know Yeah, i I took the day off of work, so that was I started by doing that. No, um I did that right.

00:05:31.93
Bill
You did that. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. you did

00:05:35.37
Mike
I didn't go to work. Slipped in about an extra half hour, woohoo. Yeah, I had to take my car into the shop. um It's hopefully, where's some piece of wood here?

00:05:49.50
Mike
Knock on that. um It's all good to go now. um you know I got a birthday coming up here in about a week and a half, which means here in the state of Ohio, my registration tags are due. My little license plate stickers, whatever the hell you want to call them. um And so.

00:06:07.13
Mike
Right, so I got a ad here in Cuyahoga County. We have this stupid E-check thing every two years, admissions check. So ah yeah, and of course this year is, you know, ah yeah. This year's due and I had a check engine light on and the car's been running fine, but it's been a saga. But anyway, um so I took my car to the shop today and And I, then I walked home about a half hour walk, which I know is nothing for, for you professional hikers out there.

00:06:38.45
Mike
Hi, Bill. But, uh, Oh yeah. So I walked home and then when it was ready at a three 30 in the afternoon, I walked back up there. So I actually walked a couple of miles today.

00:06:49.92
Mike
Woo hoo.

00:06:50.67
Bill
Nice.

00:06:51.18
Mike
Yeah. So, you know, yeah, I did some shit and I laid on the couch that was doing something.

00:06:57.53
Bill
Well, and and that's the thing. I mean, the ah whole concept or the definition of doing, I mean, you could be doing nothing.

00:07:02.42
Mike
Mhm.

00:07:04.74
Bill
You could be doing something and then insert whatever that is.

00:07:05.14
Mike
Right.

00:07:08.67
Bill
Even if you're sleeping and you're comatose, you're still doing something. You're, you know, or being, you're again, doing nothing.

00:07:12.55
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:07:16.02
Bill
So, um but I mean, I understand what they were talking about. de the The last thing that I wrote down though, was um working for progress, not perfection.

00:07:19.08
Mike
Right.

00:07:22.64
Mike
Mhm.

00:07:24.07
Bill
So, um That's something that I know that I know we've talked about the, and that's one of the, I don't even know, if do do you want to call it a cliche or is that part of the, this part of the big book? um I mean, is it, do you consider progress, not perfection, a big book or I mean, a cliche or just a a thing?

00:07:33.37
Mike
No.

00:07:41.31
Mike
Oh, but that would be a thing. Yeah.

00:07:46.12
Mike
Right. There's, God knows there's plenty of cliches in the program.

00:07:49.72
Bill
Right.

00:07:49.78
Mike
Um, yes, but progress, not perfection is definitely not one of them.

00:07:53.97
Bill
Okay.

00:07:54.02
Mike
Um, we, we kind of, we sort of turn it into one occasionally and use it as one occasionally, but, um, No, it's a fucking thing, man. you know um Absolutely, we've got to progress you know um and and realize that we're never going to be perfect.

00:08:02.19
Bill
Right.

00:08:11.05
Mike
And that's ah that's good. I don't wanna be perfect.

00:08:12.96
Bill
Right.

00:08:14.99
Mike
um Because I never will be. So why the hell would I want that? Again, with wasting time and energy and don't do much of that anymore. But yes, progressing, definitely.

00:08:25.60
Mike
Getting you know a little bit better than we were yesterday. Um, and, and frankly, don't always succeed in that. Um, sometimes, you know, yeah at this point, sometimes just maintaining, you know, um, just not moving backwards.

00:08:41.15
Bill
Right.

00:08:41.28
Mike
That's, that's a huge thing. Um, especially at this point, cause it's real easy to do, you know, and I'm not going to do that. I'm going to, I don't need to go to the meeting.

00:08:51.65
Mike
I don't need to, I don't need to do my readings. Fuck it. Yes, I do. Sometimes maintaining is enough.

00:08:56.66
Bill
Right.

00:08:59.43
Bill
Well, you know what? that's ah That's a good point. I never thought about that. that And you and I are probably, we're examples. I didn't want to say good examples. um We're examples of what you just said about about that because you know really when you think about it, we were moving um so we werere moving so much.

00:09:11.97
Mike
Right.

00:09:18.40
Bill
It was constant motion when we first got sober and easily, I mean, God, for me, be definitely before I left Cleveland and even for that first year,

00:09:19.82
Mike
Sure. and sir Right.

00:09:26.63
Bill
um probably a couple years and I was back in Wisconsin, um a little bit less but probably 75% 60 75% of what I was doing in Cleveland, as far as being active and shit.

00:09:31.69
Mike
Right. right

00:09:37.27
Bill
And then, you know, think about the percentage of of where our programs have come down to, and you're, you're right, that's kind of a scary, thought but, um, it wouldn't take that much for us to start going backwards.

00:09:49.13
Bill
you know and we don't have there's There's not too many things and it's not necessarily a bad thing because we talked about it.

00:09:49.26
Mike
Right.

00:09:54.85
Bill
you know that um Thankfully we built a ah life that we're comfortable with and and solid with and got a really good foundation or a solid foundation you know for us and we know what to do and we know when things feel wrong and all those sort of things.

00:10:04.11
Mike
Right.

00:10:07.97
Bill
but you know there is there's There's still that, you know although maybe thin layer of things that we do all the time, it's still there, but it is. It's ah it's a thin layer.

00:10:17.52
Mike
and sometimes yeah

00:10:18.62
Bill
you know and i mean just there's There's relatively few things that we do versus what we did 12 years ago or 13, 14 years ago.

00:10:24.55
Mike
Well, yeah, sure.

00:10:26.30
Bill
you know

00:10:26.48
Mike
Well, I mean, you talked about, you know, yes, we, we did a lot of moving early on. Yeah. Cause we, you know, I, I needed to get the fuck away from where I was and what I was.

00:10:37.27
Mike
And yeah, there needed to be a shit ton of movement because

00:10:38.29
Bill
Right.

00:10:41.02
Mike
you know, where I was and what I was, was fucking awful. So, yes, there through necessity, you know, I mean, right, early sobriety, man, if you if you're not hauling ass away from what you were and and what where you were, um yeah you should be pretty fucking scared, man, because Yeah, you know, I mean, we've, we've got to get away from ourselves what we were.

00:11:06.96
Bill
Right.

00:11:07.01
Mike
Um, it's huge. So yes, there was tons and tons of movement. Um, you know, I, hopefully where we're at now, you know, 14 and a half, whatever working on 15 years later, um,

00:11:19.30
Mike
yeah I kind of like where I'm at now. I don't want to move away from where I'm at.

00:11:21.78
Bill
Right.

00:11:24.14
Mike
um I still need to improve. Don't get me wrong. all But yeah, you know for for the most part, I'm pretty kind of okay.

00:11:35.14
Mike
you know i'll But again, you know I can't fucking move backwards and I can't stop doing what, you know keeping it, even if it is a thin layer or the shield, um you know that's the thing.

00:11:35.38
Bill
Right.

00:11:38.01
Bill
Right.

00:11:48.11
Mike
The shield isn't thin anymore.

00:11:50.30
Bill
right

00:11:50.73
Mike
It's pretty fucking thick. um And that's why I don't need to keep building on it. and you know shoveling whatever it is against that shield to build it up anymore because it's pretty fucking strong. But if I stop maintaining it, um it will deteriorate. you know It needs you know maintenance. I've heard that word somewhere before.

00:12:14.77
Bill
there' so I think it's a favorite part of the favorite part of the big book for you, something about the the daily something reprieve maintenance.

00:12:16.54
Mike
you Yes, it is. yet

00:12:20.90
Bill
I forget how it goes. But um you know it again, that makes ah that's a good point. and when i When I said thin, I guess I was meeting, that's the wrong way to put it. I guess there's ah there's a there's a lower a smaller number of things that we do.

00:12:29.57
Mike
Hmm.

00:12:33.13
Bill
We don't have this stack of things that we do as much anymore.

00:12:34.99
Mike
Right.

00:12:35.85
Bill
um it is a you know it's a It's a thinner layer, but but a stronger layer because we've become you know obviously built it up. That's a great way to put it.

00:12:43.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:12:43.35
Bill
you know and And that's the thing too, I'm glad you talked about that, that um as far as not wanting to run away, there was a, and I think I posted it on Instagram the other day, you know since I've been sober or whatever it is, it was from year, I don't know, a handful of years ago when I posted it the first time, that you know I've never looked in the mirror and wanted to run away from the person that I see.

00:13:03.27
Mike
All right.

00:13:03.52
Bill
And I mean, for I came across it looking for just nasty fucking memes is what I was looking for. And I came across something nice, I'm like, i'm like oh, that's a nice one. But but when I read it, I'm like my goddamn that's it.

00:13:16.16
Bill
I thought back I'm like even even on my worst in my worst moments um You know of and we've all had them, you know we you and I talked about some of them and we've had our moments um I've never wanted to I've never looked in the mirror and either been ashamed or Wanted to run away and think man.

00:13:25.40
Mike
Right.

00:13:31.86
Bill
I can't even fucking look at you, you know

00:13:33.55
Mike
Right.

00:13:33.94
Bill
Um, which is, I never really thought about that. I probably didn't think about it. I clearly didn't think about it even that much the last time I posted that fucking thing, but it just, it, it hit me the right way the other day.

00:13:38.76
Mike
Hmm.

00:13:45.39
Bill
And I was like, God damn, I liked that, you know?

00:13:47.08
Mike
Right.

00:13:47.67
Bill
Um, and really, I mean, we don't have to, yeah, we don't have to move away. We don't have to run away from who we are. Um, and that's a, I mean, that's a really good thing, but, um, yeah, I mean, like you said, There's I, I was gonna say I think I know for a fact that I'm more open to new things that might come along my way these days, but I'm not necessarily looking for new ways you know something comes along and I'm like, huh, well that looks kind of cool let me take a peek at that you know.

00:14:06.00
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure. Right. Right.

00:14:15.25
Bill
and And the other thing too is that um I think if, if for whatever reason we either weren't doing this or stop doing this podcast, um I probably would not even probably i I would find another outlet, whether it be online meetings going to the I would need something because that's one of the things that

00:14:23.80
Mike
Right.

00:14:29.62
Mike
right

00:14:35.26
Bill
let us into this to begin with I start listing the podcast that we started doing this there was a void that I didn't know was there and this has helped fill that you know and it is I mean this is this is a huge this podcast as much as we fuck around

00:14:36.90
Mike
Right.

00:14:45.60
Mike
Absolutely.

00:14:51.35
Mike
And we do.

00:14:51.92
Bill
yeah And it's such a huge part of my of my program in my sobriety because on a daily basis again social media could be a pain in the ass but when i go on instagram to post a meme then i look at this but i'm posting our clips i'm involved in this stuff on a daily basis you looking for these readings every single day when when i read i'm looking for something that i can post you know

00:15:04.79
Mike
Right.

00:15:07.22
Mike
Right.

00:15:12.82
Mike
and Yeah.

00:15:13.55
Bill
So with it's this constant, again, my guess motion, you know, in my head about all this stuff. So um yeah, I mean, it's all cool, but there was one thing that I wrote down um and I circled it because everything that it was talking about that was again, doing things and creating things and blah, blah, blah.

00:15:29.42
Bill
I just, I wrote down the word action, you know, and that's, that's what all of this stuff really is, right?

00:15:31.63
Mike
Yep.

00:15:35.48
Mike
Simple program of action. Read that somewhere.

00:15:39.79
Bill
Yeah, and it says, I mean, the first thing I wrote down was, let us begin.

00:15:41.47
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:42.71
Bill
I wrote down doubt and fear, learn by doing, um we create. I like the fact that it said, we create sobriety too.

00:15:50.34
Mike
Right.

00:15:50.51
Bill
um And that's true. I mean, this thing, so we're given once again, going back to the ah to the cake mix.

00:15:55.75
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:56.45
Bill
you know We're given a box of cake mix with the steps and the meetings and you know the principles and all those different things, all these things that people give us.

00:15:59.47
Mike
Yep.

00:16:05.03
Bill
It's ah it's an IKEA.

00:16:07.61
Mike
Right. Center of directions.

00:16:08.33
Bill
it's a Yeah, it's a box of Ikea shit that we gotta build, you know?

00:16:11.48
Mike
Yup.

00:16:12.65
Bill
um But yeah, we do, we've gotta create this. Nobody gives us a variety to give us the tools to build it, right?

00:16:16.50
Mike
Mhmm. Yep, absolutely. I mean, and I've talked about it before, you know, I mean, the first time I went into the rooms when I was like 30 years old, selfish and self-centered and, you know, privileged and entitled and all that bullshit, um you know, I expected the people in the rooms to get me sober. I did. Absolutely. That was my attitude. Okay, you fuckers, you need to get me sober, show me how to do this. And, you know, and and basically, you know,

00:16:45.52
Mike
do the work for me as I lived my entire life that way. And um clearly it didn't work because I went back out for another 10 years.

00:16:53.89
Bill
right

00:16:53.96
Mike
um But yeah, I mean, that was my attitude. You fuckers are gonna get me sober. You're gonna you're gonna gather up around me and then lift me up.

00:17:01.63
Bill
yeah

00:17:03.43
Mike
and Oh yeah, right. and Asshole. um It didn't fucking work because, hey, nobody's fucking doing that. When I came in this time, I was ready to do the work.

00:17:14.71
Mike
I was ready to do whatever I had to do. Program of action. Absolutely.

00:17:19.64
Bill
Right. Right.

00:17:20.83
Mike
You know, and ah in the, in the reading, what I really liked, um, kind of why I picked it, um, was, you know, yes, begin, don't procrastinate, you know, because when we do, I loved what it said, then doubt will begin to set in if we wait too long.

00:17:20.99
Bill
you know'

00:17:36.58
Bill
Right.

00:17:36.59
Mike
And then if there's doubt, then fear will follow, you know, well, maybe, uh, man, and then you start getting fucking scared because your goddamn head starts going. Oh, just fucking do it, man. You know, what's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to do it wrong.

00:17:52.45
Mike
and you'll have to do it again the right way.

00:17:54.63
Bill
right

00:17:55.53
Mike
You know, maybe you'll do it wrong several times, but at least you're doing something. You're moving, you're, you know, and yeah, it's, um, it's hugely important. I mean, I don't, I don't put shit off, you know, I really, really don't.

00:18:09.67
Mike
Um, I had a little bit, you know, here and there of, you know, my car should have been fixed, you know, earlier, but it was running fine.

00:18:19.69
Bill
but

00:18:20.85
Mike
Right. You know, and it's still a week and a half before I have to get the tags on it. So I'm still doing all right. It's done before, you know, before it's too late.

00:18:28.08
Bill
Right.

00:18:30.55
Mike
I mean, the old life. Well, you know, March shit, it's April already. All right. Well,

00:18:38.68
Mike
Tags only been bad for a fucking month. Oh, they won't even bad for two months Yeah, not not it. No, I get shit done what I have to get it done and usually a little bit before No Right

00:18:50.58
Bill
Well, yeah, and that's ah and that's why I wrote down doubt and fear because that I mean 100% that I mean, you know Not that I've ever dealt with either one of those things before even recently, huh?

00:19:02.07
Bill
You know, but ah but the thing of it is is that um if I have doubts I don't I don't just sit my own fucking wallowing or wallowing my own thoughts I mean I I did what I did here I mean I brought it up and I talked to you about it, you know because I

00:19:09.67
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:19:12.97
Mike
Right.

00:19:14.89
Bill
i Thought I knew maybe what the I had options, but I didn't know what the fuck to do, you know So again, I i sat there and talked to about it but that's a point, you know years ago um The only reason I would have talked to somebody is to try to get something out of it Like I need my car fixed.

00:19:18.13
Mike
Right. right

00:19:28.01
Mike
Absolutely.

00:19:29.38
Bill
Can you can I have some money, you know, or I mean, that's that's what I used to do, you know in in in this case I just wanted to make sure that you know that I was spending my money um In the in the right way and I wasn't you know, it was

00:19:30.88
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

00:19:40.44
Mike
Right.

00:19:43.39
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:44.45
Bill
making a bad decision you know

00:19:45.65
Mike
ah Absolutely. Yeah. Big stuff. We, we run it past other people today because we have realized, I believe it's called humbling yourself. We've realized that we don't have all the fucking answers all the time.

00:19:57.88
Mike
You know, we've got a couple and you know, maybe, maybe our ideas.

00:19:57.96
Bill
right

00:20:01.24
Mike
Okay. But we don't. completely trust ourselves because we've we do these little things called inventories and we realize that shit. Yes, I kind of trust myself, but not completely because I've got a history of making some pretty fucking bad decisions.

00:20:18.01
Bill
Yeah, it's like I know I'm not either. Either I know I'm not good at this, whatever this is, um or I have you know a question mark about it.

00:20:21.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:20:25.55
Bill
i Or I know somebody who I i know for a fact is is spot on with these things and has a, I don't even want to say a disinterested, but more of an even ended view, a non-emotional view.

00:20:30.12
Mike
Right.

00:20:35.24
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:20:36.50
Bill
you know and Nine times out of 10, that's what i need I need.

00:20:39.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:39.81
Bill
I need, if nothing else, I need an opinion. I don't necessarily need to be told what to do. Sometimes I just need an opinion or direction.

00:20:45.14
Mike
Right.

00:20:47.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:48.23
Bill
um not that i don't i Sometimes I do need to know what to do.

00:20:51.13
Mike
Well, yeah.

00:20:52.13
Bill
let me just Let me just step back a minute. you ah this I'm sorry, I fucking lied there, everyone.

00:20:53.83
Mike
Sure.

00:20:57.07
Bill
Sorry. yeah um But a lot of times I just need a non-emotional opinion because I'm an emotional motherfucker.

00:21:05.90
Mike
Y'all, right.

00:21:06.61
Bill
And I don't want to be, but I am. Better than I used to be. you know That's for goddamn sure.

00:21:10.81
Mike
Right, absolutely, right.

00:21:12.35
Bill
Back to like to progress, not perfection.

00:21:14.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:16.23
Bill
Well, that's funny. and i and i Every time I progress and not perfection is brought up, I just think about when, the first time I heard that, I literally, and I never used it that way, but I looked at it right away as, okay, there's my out.

00:21:30.45
Mike
Right, oh yeah, loophole.

00:21:30.51
Bill
There's my there's my excuse. You know, yeah, it's a loophole, right? Yeah, i don't I don't have to. I don't have to do well, because, I mean, these words right here says that all I get to do is, quote unquote, to try and I'm fine.

00:21:37.04
Mike
Right.

00:21:40.23
Mike
yeah

00:21:43.88
Mike
Yes. Nope.

00:21:46.58
Bill
Yeah, yeah. And, yeah right.

00:21:47.83
Mike
No, you have to progress. That's the first fucking word in the phrase. Progress.

00:21:53.69
Bill
Right, it's, no, it says try not perfection, right? Isn't that what it says?

00:21:56.46
Mike
Oh, no, no, no.

00:21:59.60
Bill
but literally I did, I looked at it, loophole. Yeah, I don't know, I couldn't pull that word out of my ass, but yeah, I was looking for it. I was looking at it as a loophole, which, um and that's the thing, you know, again, you see all that the readings and that there's memes out there, the positive memes, not the fucking nasty ones that and say, yeah, even even a little bit.

00:22:07.33
Mike
Yep, absolutely.

00:22:17.41
Bill
a little bit of movement usually it's a it's a fucking turtle that they're showing ah which is fine i mean it's a it's a visual but that's that's the thing the only thing that 100 that we have to guarantee ourselves on a daily basis is you know that first step the powerlessness don't pick up the first one all that stuff but on top of that at a minimum we can't we've got to stay the same we can't go backwards if if we're on that escalator that's going down we got to keep on fucking walking or we're going to go backwards you know

00:22:21.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:31.34
Mike
Right.

00:22:38.50
Mike
Right. Yup. see

00:22:44.59
Bill
You know what I mean? if that's the If that's the hardest thing I gotta to do on a daily basis is just not go fucking backwards.

00:22:48.87
Mike
Yup.

00:22:50.57
Bill
ah that's That's it.

00:22:52.35
Mike
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Move a fucking centimeter forward.

00:22:57.56
Bill
Right, yeah, that's that's progress, that is progress.

00:22:58.15
Mike
Yeah. Yes, it is.

00:23:01.65
Bill
But it's kind of kind of funny, too, that there's, you know, and in same thing I mentioned a couple weeks ago, I've mentioned it a few times, though, that once again, that book, Touchstones, I'm enjoying it, you know, it's, ah I don't grab a reading out of there every day, you know, to post, but there's been a number of them that i that I've grabbed from there.

00:23:13.82
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:17.61
Bill
And it is just, again, it's this it's ah it's a different thing. Nothing wrong with the other book that I was reading.

00:23:21.13
Mike
Sure.

00:23:23.65
Mike
it

00:23:23.85
Bill
um but just a little bit of, you know, kind of like fresh blood in there and a little bit different perspective.

00:23:26.60
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:27.65
Bill
And um once again, that book is supposed to be i geared towards men, but there's there's such a ah small percentage of them.

00:23:34.13
Mike
Right.

00:23:37.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:37.52
Bill
And I don't post the ones that's like, we as men, because I'm like, yeah, you know, it's not just dudes that are listening to our, or, ah you know, obviously on our Instagram page, but, um you know, there's there's very few that I have to look at.

00:23:40.74
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:23:48.15
Bill
I'm like, well, I'm not going to post that one because it's just a guy thing, you know?

00:23:51.05
Mike
Right.

00:23:51.91
Bill
but it's, it, it's almost pointless. I mean, you don't have to talk. It's usually it has nothing to do with men. It's just, it's a, yeah, it's exactly.

00:23:57.33
Mike
Right. It's universal shit. Yeah. Yeah. Truth.

00:24:02.17
Bill
It's just like being in a, you know, in a men's meeting.

00:24:02.53
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:04.47
Bill
It's not that we're not talking about the same stuff. It's just that, you know, there's just been in there. That's it. So

00:24:09.12
Mike
Yeah, exactly. You could swear more.

00:24:13.60
Bill
Exactly, exactly, yeah. It is funny sometimes that i over the years in meetings when, you know, yeah some some guy, usually it's a guy who's been around, you know, for a bit, it's one of the old timers like, well, we're mixed companies, so I'm not going to tell that story, but oh.

00:24:26.54
Mike
Right.

00:24:28.26
Bill
It's like, okay, I guess, yeah, yeah.

00:24:30.16
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:24:32.80
Bill
So, um what else? anything Anything else on the reading? I mean, obviously, yeah and say it all the time, but that was a good one, but anything else?

00:24:38.30
Mike
Yeah. No, I think, I think we covered it. Just, you know, yeah, right. Keep fucking moving, man.

00:24:46.31
Bill
Yeah, again, keep it simple. Keep fucking moving.

00:24:48.02
Mike
Yeah. Exactly, man. We're fucking sharks. We gotta keep moving or we'll die.

00:24:54.08
Bill
Yeah, I always like that analogy too. It's ah it's a good one. Again, it's ah it's a visual, but it's ah it's a damn good one. so

00:24:59.96
Mike
Nope.

00:25:01.19
Bill
All right, so um speaking of touchstones, and I think I might've wrote this down today, and I don't remember what I wrote down, so here we go.

00:25:07.78
Mike
Hey.

00:25:08.39
Bill
um Touchstones was talking about having having a conscious contact with our higher power.

00:25:13.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:13.78
Bill
Some of us use, or it said, some of us use silent meditation, observing nature, listening to music, or writing in a journal.

00:25:20.86
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:25:20.97
Bill
um In my question to you, my friend Mike, um what do you,

00:25:23.80
Mike
Yes.

00:25:25.66
Bill
on a, like on a daily basis, what do you use to get that conscious contact with whatever your higher power is? Because again, it's conscious contact with, you know, power greater in the cells, higher power, God, whatever it is.

00:25:34.78
Mike
Sure. Right. Right.

00:25:37.55
Bill
But so what do you think?

00:25:38.48
Mike
Yeah. Um, I mean, out of those, um, I would, as goofy as it sounds, probably silent meditation, you know? Um, I mean, there's very often and even, I find more now than ever, um, I'll spend like, you know, you guys know, I drive for a living. Um, I will not have anything on, I will just like.

00:26:02.44
Mike
an hour or two, sometimes even more. I mean, there's days where I'll go four hours with, without the radio on, without a podcast going, without nothing, just quiet thinking in, you know, whatever. Yes. So, I mean, it's, it is. ah Silence is, is a wonderful thing sometimes. Just fucking shut everything down, man, and just let your head go.

00:26:25.69
Bill
Right.

00:26:26.24
Mike
You know, um, and clearly, you know, I mean, I, I float, we've talked about that, you know, getting into the isolation tanks. And that's a huge part of keeping myself sane these days. Um, you know, yeah, shutting it all off, man. And, um, yeah, it's wonderful thing. Yeah. So, I mean, out of all of those, cause I mean, music, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm way too involved to be able to use that. Um, I don't even, what were the other ones?

00:26:52.39
Bill
um There was writing in a journal, um Observing Nature ah was another one.

00:26:54.66
Mike
ah Yeah. Now that ain't happening.

00:26:58.05
Mike
Yeah, a little of that. That's part of the it. But yeah, mostly the silence, just fucking shutting everything off and you know shutting off the screens, shutting off the sounds and just and you know living, thinking.

00:27:14.28
Mike
Yes.

00:27:15.67
Bill
Right.

00:27:15.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:17.43
Bill
Yeah, and you know, I was trying to think of that as you were talking, and I do that every once in a while, probably, I don't even want to say less now. I drive more, but a lot of times I have been listening to audiobooks and that sort of thing.

00:27:25.15
Mike
<unk>

00:27:27.92
Mike
Right.

00:27:28.55
Bill
But there are times when, and it is, it's just you get to the point where I'm like, I can't handle a fucking voice anymore, you know?

00:27:34.79
Mike
Right.

00:27:35.57
Bill
And I don't get irritated, but I'm like, I just shut it, like you say, shut it down, you know?

00:27:38.67
Mike
Yeah. Yup.

00:27:40.28
Bill
um So that is one, I consider the, you know, even though neither one of us, you know, sit, you know, sit on cross-legged all that stuff like we talked about, you know, fucking meditate, um the the readings that I do in the morning, although, you know, a quick 15 minutes to me when, you know, it's the first thing in the morning, wherever I'm at doing it, um even if I'm around people, I find a quiet place to do it.

00:28:01.77
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:02.55
Bill
And just doing the reading like that is, that's part of that for me. um but I've said it before and it wasn't a conscious conscious if I didn't specifically start going on hiking trails and stuff like that to have my you know conscious contact with some fucking higher power just didn't you know um but and again when I'm out there I'm not like

00:28:12.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:18.48
Mike
Sure, right.

00:28:23.52
Bill
Okay, higher power. Here I am.

00:28:25.15
Mike
he Yeah, right.

00:28:26.40
Bill
I'm about to consciously contact with you. I don't, I don't do that either. But I don't listen to music I'd never have. um I've only gone on, you know, hiking trails with, you know, three or four different times, maybe a handful of times with actually other people.

00:28:33.46
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:28:41.24
Bill
um You know, so other than that, I'm by myself. And um I just I walk and I listen and I enjoy and in that is that's it's so fucking peaceful.

00:28:51.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:52.00
Bill
You know, or just going to, you know, I mean, i so I stood in the middle of a goddamn, you know, field the other night on the side of a highway when I went to that Cadillac ranch thing, which is very, very strange, kind of weird.

00:28:54.88
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:29:00.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:02.76
Bill
But um then I just stayed there.

00:29:03.11
Mike
Yes.

00:29:04.91
Bill
And, you know, because I two things I saw that you could catch get sunset. Plus, I'm like, I got to see what this fucking thing's all about.

00:29:10.91
Mike
Right.

00:29:11.21
Bill
um But so I just you know, just stood out there, you know, and you know again with I've done sunset things all that stuff It is it's just quiet time, you know, that's all that's all that it is um Journaling I've never done I write things but I've never journaled and if I'm listening to the music I'm doing it for the enjoyment of the music not to you know, not to fuck conscious contact with shit

00:29:19.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:30.10
Mike
Right.

00:29:33.43
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:29:35.72
Bill
But you know what, I mean, sometimes listening to, um if I, you know, cause I listen to these audio books and stuff like that, which I enjoy, I listen to a lot of Marc Maron, which, you know, he dips into his sobriety stuff, but and there are times that I'm like, I just, I need to listen to a sobriety podcast either to get ideas for this, this here,

00:29:41.42
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:29:49.30
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:29:53.20
Bill
um Or just to open up my fucking mind and I'll listen to there's one the sober motivation um You know podcast and that's that's all stories It's all structured stories and I just listen to you know again I don't need drunk a logs, but I'm listening to him every once in a while, you know So I don't know if I need it or I just like yeah let's get some of this shit in my head again

00:29:57.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:08.16
Mike
Sure.

00:30:12.75
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. Right. Because, you know, we have to again, consciously do that. We have to plug ourselves back into this thing. Cause it's real fucking easy to unplug and go, ah, I'm just living my life.

00:30:26.52
Mike
Everything's fine. No, we're fucking we're alcoholics and and drug addicts and we need to be a part of this thing.

00:30:33.18
Bill
Right.

00:30:34.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:35.05
Bill
Yeah, I'd say that is true. That is true. And that kind of leads on to the next one I just kind of looked at. um Is there anything that you know now, um all again, you know we talked about almost 15 years sober, um that you wish you knew either back in your drinking days or when you first got sober?

00:30:52.20
Bill
So anything that you know now that you look back and like, goddamn, I wish I would have known this in the beginning, or I wish I would have known this when I was still, you know when you were still in your active shit, up to your ears and shit.

00:31:01.47
Mike
Mm.

00:31:04.91
Mike
My ears and me.

00:31:06.38
Bill
Yeah.

00:31:06.50
Mike
Um.

00:31:06.70
Bill
okay Yeah, exactly.

00:31:09.81
Mike
Um, now, no, that's again, that's kind of, I, I can't think that way, you know?

00:31:16.18
Bill
Right.

00:31:16.64
Mike
Um, I didn't, didn't know what I didn't know. Um, I hate that, but yes. Um, now, how dad No, I mean, everything I, you know, it had to be the way it was.

00:31:29.14
Mike
And um I know what I know now. And I don't know, I'm going to hopefully know something in another, you know, five, 10 years that I don't know today. And I'm not going to look back and go, well, shit, I wish I'd known that five years ago.

00:31:43.06
Mike
um Why? That's just a waste of fucking time.

00:31:44.65
Bill
yeah

00:31:47.96
Bill
Yeah. And you know, we, we've talked about that, you know, if, uh, if we would have, you know, grabbed onto this thing, um, you know, rather than 15 years ago, maybe it was 20 years ago, maybe it was 25 years ago, maybe is when we were whatever age and it is, it's, uh, it's like, you've always said it, it's dangerous thinking because then, you know, you're like, uh, it's almost gets into, into regrets and you know, this could form a resentment or whatever the case is.

00:31:53.78
Mike
Hmm. Right. Right. Yeah.

00:32:05.02
Mike
yeah

00:32:09.11
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, right. I mean, I fucking, I need to appreciate what I have now and not who I should have known this before. And apparently I fucking shouldn't have.

00:32:22.26
Bill
And it's, it had to have been, um, same thing. It had to have been a podcast that I, that I was listening to because I, uh, some of these notes I write down, if I don't, if I don't identify where they came from, like one of the readings or something like that, usually I pulled it from a podcast.

00:32:31.90
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:32:34.82
Bill
Um, and I, I didn't think about it when I wrote it down that, you know, we've talked about that thing before, but that that's exactly right.

00:32:38.64
Mike
Mm.

00:32:40.22
Bill
That, um, I don't know. I mean, like, like you say, I'm not a fan of that saying either. Whoa, I didn't know what I didn't know.

00:32:44.53
Mike
Right. Darn it, boy.

00:32:47.11
Bill
and oh shit Yeah, no shit, yeah, yeah.

00:32:47.49
Mike
Really? hey Right.

00:32:50.41
Bill
Thank you for the updates, you fucking knob.

00:32:53.72
Mike
It's for the news flash, Cronkite.

00:32:54.14
Bill
But dumb but really, I mean, for me to for me to sit back and say, um I wish, or I would have, or I could have, or I should have, anything like that, um like you like we were talking about to begin with, you mentioned that you know if you, maybe you're gonna do it wrong, you know just do something, if if you're gonna do it wrong, that's how you learn from it.

00:33:02.42
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:33:09.79
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:12.52
Mike
Yup.

00:33:12.70
Bill
And the main thing, and you've you said it far more than I ever had, that all of these things that we went through um all of this, you know, in some cases pain and ah maybe regret, yeah like the beginning of our podcast, regret and bad choices, you know, it all has worth, right?

00:33:20.72
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yup. Yup. Absolutely. Cause we can use it to help somebody else. That's yeah. You know, and it's not about, again, it's not about me, man. It's not about, Oh, if I had, my life would have been so much better. No, I need to go through the garbage so I could help the next guy along to get out of his garbage.

00:33:44.96
Bill
Right. Yeah. That's really, I get when I, when I wrote that down and even thinking back now, I can't, uh, I mean, yeah, I wish I wouldn't have, I got, I can't even say that I was going to say, I wish I wouldn't have caused the, the hurt and the pain to other people.

00:33:54.79
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

00:33:57.32
Bill
I mean, but I, again, I, everything that I, that I did as painful as it is, what I think about once again, my, my kids or mom or Kathy or, you know, Dawn or Pam or anything like that.

00:33:57.79
Mike
Right.

00:34:05.50
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:34:09.15
Bill
And I'm, I'm not happy with the, the pain that I caused them.

00:34:11.14
Mike
Of course not.

00:34:12.15
Bill
Thankfully again, gotten through rebuilt and all this sort of things.

00:34:14.67
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:15.47
Bill
So how can I even go back and say I wish that wouldn't happen? Because I mean, all these little things, again, they're pieces to this fucking puzzle, right?

00:34:22.59
Mike
Right. Exactly. Right. I mean, clearly we were, that's a good thing that we're glad, you know, that we were sad that we caused the pain.

00:34:32.50
Bill
Right.

00:34:32.75
Mike
Um, cause I mean, you know, at the time when we were causing the pain, we weren't all that particularly winning fucking care.

00:34:38.36
Bill
ha

00:34:40.76
Mike
What do you mean? I'm causing you pain too fucking bad. You're causing me pain by me causing you pain. Right, that's how we fucking thought, that's how I thought. oh Right, so I mean, again, how how could I feel bad about causing the pain if I didn't cause the pain?

00:34:56.50
Mike
I know it's fucked, but yes.

00:34:57.06
Bill
right? Yeah, it it really is. Because I was ah as soon as I said that, I'm like, God, I can't even I can't even take that back, you know, because, you know, I can't even regret that.

00:35:03.75
Mike
No.

00:35:06.04
Bill
Because, again, all these different things. I mean, I, ah you've got to learn from all you gotta I had to be a fucking raging asshole, dick ass motherfucker.

00:35:13.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:16.87
Mike
Yup.

00:35:17.44
Bill
in order to be this wonderful individual that I am now today.

00:35:19.45
Mike
That's right.

00:35:22.63
Bill
right You know, real quick, not that I'm a wonderful individual, but no, no, no, I just, I was so happy about this.

00:35:24.83
Mike
yeah

00:35:28.62
Bill
So we talk about, um this is kind of a, well I don't know, maybe this is somehow sobriety related.

00:35:31.15
Mike
Right.

00:35:34.39
Bill
So we talk about obviously leaving places um the same or better than than we left them, right?

00:35:40.67
Mike
right

00:35:41.63
Bill
So, um and one second, let me get to these. The last two, I try to do my best when I'm in these Airbnb's.

00:35:49.14
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:35:49.39
Bill
um I treat them as my own. um I don't leave lights on, I don't run water, that does anything.

00:35:51.79
Mike
Sure.

00:35:55.03
Bill
I treat it as if I were paying for everything.

00:35:55.22
Mike
Right.

00:35:56.95
Bill
I am, but you know what I mean.

00:35:57.62
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah, right.

00:35:58.75
Bill
um But also I don't make a fucking mess, so.

00:36:01.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:01.89
Bill
So I was in Phoenix for two weeks. And when I left there, this was the review that she left me. She said, Bill was an absolutely incredible guest, took amazing care of the house. It was so clean, exclamation point.

00:36:14.30
Bill
He's a type of guest, host, just love, 100% welcome back anytime. And I was like, God damn, that was nice.

00:36:20.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:36:20.46
Bill
I've had people say some nice things, but um I always leave a place clean, right?

00:36:21.96
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:36:24.53
Bill
So the place I was at in Prescott, the last place I was at, this is Don, the fucking talker and blah, blah, blah.

00:36:27.64
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:36:30.50
Bill
and

00:36:30.82
Mike
Right.

00:36:31.79
Bill
He's like, Bill may have been the tidiest guest we have ever had in all our years of being with Airbnb, wonderful guest.

00:36:34.46
Mike
so

00:36:38.80
Bill
And I looked at those and I'm like, I didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

00:36:41.83
Mike
Right. Uh huh.

00:36:44.14
Bill
you know And I was like, that that's why it made me feel so good because I'm like um' like, okay, so just being a normal, the normal person that I think is normal, um other people looked at that as something out of the ordinary.

00:36:47.34
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:53.00
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:36:56.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:56.76
Bill
you know And again, I don't look at that. I'm not saying like, Oh, look at me. I'm so great.

00:37:00.22
Mike
Right.

00:37:00.30
Bill
I don't mean it that way.

00:37:00.42
Mike
All right. Right.

00:37:01.75
Bill
It's just, it's, it's the, the acknowledgement. It just reinforces what I, what I don't even try to do on a daily basis.

00:37:09.09
Mike
this Exactly.

00:37:12.09
Bill
I mean, I do, but I don't, you know?

00:37:13.67
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah. ah um I'm with you, man. I was, you know, I was actually, my truck is in the shop. Um, I took it up there by Tuesday. I forget. Anyway, I've been in another truck this week and, uh, clearly it's another guy's truck use off for a few days or whatever. So I was using his truck. Um, yeah. And I mean, there are things that, you know, I had to fix a couple of things cause they weren't fucking right.

00:37:38.24
Mike
And um yeah, I mean, I left it better than I had it, you know?

00:37:42.45
Bill
Right.

00:37:42.64
Mike
And and that's just, fuck man, that's what we do. That's the way we were taught to do things. It's not, you know, if he acknowledges it, whatever, if he doesn't, I don't fucking care.

00:37:53.53
Mike
It's it's what I needed to do. It's how I do things today, you know?

00:37:58.79
Bill
Right.

00:37:59.63
Mike
It's like, I'm, you know, um had some people in my house this week who didn't do that. um You know, and I'm just, I'm going fuck man. You know, i yeah you spill something, you clean it up. It's, you know, I don't, I don't massively clean, you know, Chris talks about all the time. It's like, you know, um,

00:38:18.63
Mike
We're having a poker game here. We're trying to get that going again.

00:38:22.52
Bill
Nice.

00:38:22.55
Mike
um And yeah, right, so the 22nd, we're gonna have a poker game here at my house. And um you know i'm like I'm gonna go, well, I gotta fucking clean. And Chris looks at me and she goes, what are you talking about?

00:38:34.06
Mike
Your house is fucking clean. Because I'm constantly doing little things, so I don't have to majorly do stuff. you know i don't I don't leave clothes on the floor. I pick them up and put them in the laundry.

00:38:46.14
Mike
Um, you know, I, I wiped the sink down. I have a specific towel in my bathroom for wiping the sink down.

00:38:50.67
Bill
hey

00:38:53.37
Mike
Now that's Keating Center shit, man.

00:38:53.55
Bill
Right.

00:38:54.91
Mike
You know, there was rags in the bathroom in the Keating Center.

00:38:55.41
Bill
Right.

00:38:58.29
Mike
When you were done with the sink, you fucking wiped it down. it' I've done it for 15 years, you know, whatever. I mean, it's just, you know, so shit, you know, if there's a little spot of something somewhere, I wipe it up.

00:39:11.02
Mike
I clean it up. I pick it up. I. Whatever, you know, yeah, it's just who we fucking are now, right?

00:39:18.33
Bill
Right. It was just like I say, it was just a two in a row, you know, when i in ah I was at, like I said, a place in Phoenix for, you know, for two weeks. And I mean, um i you're living, you know, but I mean, I just, but still, I mean, yeah.

00:39:26.48
Mike
Sure Yeah But the way we live is we, yeah, as we go along, cause I mean, shit, I don't want to spend, you know, eight hours cleaning my house.

00:39:39.84
Mike
Cause it's a fucking mess.

00:39:40.22
Bill
ha

00:39:41.72
Mike
You know, I just cleaned little tiny things.

00:39:42.01
Bill
right

00:39:43.56
Mike
I take 30 seconds, 40 times a day yeah and it's done.

00:39:48.95
Bill
Right, well even that the guy in Prescott said, the one in Prescott, it kind of surprised me to begin with because this, so where it was, the driveway was dirt, and the the the dirt in this area, it's again, it's, you know, you're up, literally it was, you know, it's 5,800 feet up or whatever the elevation was in that area, so you're up this mountain, and and it's it is this kind of, ah it's this really fine dirt that, you know, it's it's hard not to track stuff in, and I didn't like sweep up or do anything like that, but I'm like, there's gotta to be fucking dirt in here, you know?

00:39:57.53
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:40:03.71
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:40:16.56
Mike
Right.

00:40:16.74
Bill
Um, but I tried really hard, you know, I, I would wear just my sandals out so I could take my sandals off and hit them. Try not to, if I took my shoes in before I walked in, I took my shoes off and, you know, tapped them out.

00:40:25.27
Mike
Right.

00:40:26.66
Bill
Um, you know, because I, it's again, I want to fucking track this shit in anywhere I, anywhere I live, let alone somebody else's fucking place, you know?

00:40:30.28
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:40:34.25
Bill
Um, but then, uh, but that, when he, when he said that and I'm like, hu okay, you know, and he said, he's like, don't take the guard. You know, he puts in his, everyone's got instructions for Airbnb, what to do.

00:40:42.53
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:40:43.92
Bill
Like this place says put the towels, um sheets, and um the bath mat thing in the washer. It doesn't say run it, but I'll probably start to wash it, then they don't have to fucking deal with it, you know?

00:40:52.42
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:40:53.82
Bill
um But like he said, you know, don't worry about, forget what the one thing was. Oh, um don't worry about the towels. He said we wash them all, but I still, I put the towels I used, I put over the tub.

00:41:03.93
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:03.97
Bill
So you know that these were used.

00:41:05.82
Mike
Right.

00:41:06.13
Bill
Um, and then he's like, don't even worry about emptying the garbage, but like the, I bought chicken and I don't leave chicken in the garbage can inside. I take it outside because I don't have to fucking smell.

00:41:13.65
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right.

00:41:15.47
Bill
So I didn't know where the, where the garbage cans were, but there's a, like a mini garage. It's not even enough big enough to full pull a car. It's like a storage area attached to the house.

00:41:22.14
Mike
isn Right.

00:41:24.15
Bill
Did you get to it for the outside? That's where his garbage cans were so I I did I took not only throughout the week I emptied the garbage once and put my bag of chicken in there um You know, but tied it up tight so it wouldn't stink up that fucking place um But I am like fucking them.

00:41:31.55
Mike
Right. Right.

00:41:35.20
Mike
Right.

00:41:36.95
Bill
I'm taking the garbage out. Fuck it, you know, and I did You know, so I'm sure that's probably what he thought.

00:41:39.67
Mike
yeah Right.

00:41:41.75
Bill
He said don't worry about it But I did, you know, I took that out put the towels where they go and I made the bed And you know, I'll take the fucking sheets off the bed and then I'll pull up the comforter and it's the bed's gonna be quote unquote made when I leave you.

00:41:53.98
Mike
Right.

00:41:54.10
Bill
And I talked about that before. um But yeah, I mean, I've had some people say, you know, turn, you know, whatever bed you use, if it's more than one bed, they're like, make sure you, you know, leave it, leave the comforter off and leave the sheet out gently, nicely, turn it down so you know what was used.

00:42:06.89
Mike
Right.

00:42:09.35
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:42:09.62
Mike
Right.

00:42:10.63
Bill
You know, but I can't, a part of me is just like, this is fucking ridiculous. Like you and I talked about, I make the bed and then I take it off and then take the sheets off.

00:42:15.81
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:42:17.83
Bill
You know, I'm like, I made the bed.

00:42:19.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:21.07
Bill
And it's again, it's it's silly, but not in a bad way. You know, it's not in a fucking bad way at all.

00:42:25.17
Mike
Right. Yeah. It's just, yeah, it's, it's kind of something we have to do.

00:42:26.70
Bill
it ah There's no doubt I fucking have to do it.

00:42:31.52
Mike
Yeah. And again, it doesn't, right. It doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't, we don't have to understand it.

00:42:38.92
Bill
Right.

00:42:38.94
Mike
We just have to fucking do it. And that's yeahed how we live our goddamn lives today.

00:42:45.47
Bill
Right. Yeah, so again, like I said, the Airbnb thing, it just kind of popped into my head. So I had, to I meant to mention that to you, but I hadn't had never written down. So I'm glad i glad I thought of it. Because again, it just kind of fucking blew my mind.

00:42:56.97
Bill
but Okay, one one last thing, it's getting close to like the the break time here.

00:42:56.97
Mike
Right.

00:42:59.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:59.93
Bill
So um we passed ah obviously Groundhog Day this week, which

00:43:03.61
Mike
Hmm.

00:43:04.39
Bill
You know, again, imagine that guess what, six more weeks of winter, but what's that was the, so that was punk.

00:43:07.38
Mike
Yeah. Hmm.

00:43:10.54
Bill
So Tony Phil that said that I think the, the one in Milwaukee, um, said early spring, you know, it's different, whatever, whatever it is.

00:43:17.55
Mike
Sure. Yeah. It depends if the sun's out or not.

00:43:20.10
Bill
right so um here's the thing so in Milwaukee okay which I didn't know this the Milwaukee County Zoo they have their own or they had up until two years ago they had a groundhog his name was Gordy okay Gordy the groundhog which as soon as they said it I'm like I'm like oh okay I remember that you know fuck I was there for 30 goddamn years you know

00:43:25.75
Mike
Hmm.

00:43:32.11
Mike
Okay. All right.

00:43:41.23
Mike
Right.

00:43:41.87
Bill
But here's what they have now at the Milwaukee County Zoo. They have Nigerian dwarf goats.

00:43:52.45
Bill
his stand is is standards for the groundhog and i'm like i'm like what so ever since yeah for the last two years apparently they have not apparently they do they have fucking nigerian dwarf goats i looked them up they're little everyone look up nigerian dwarf goat you'll laugh it's this it looks like a fucking toy it's just it's this little fucking goat so i'm like okay whatever and then uh it just made me laugh because uh Again, PETA was going nuts again this year about don't use this, don't use that.

00:44:19.17
Bill
a I can't for the life of me remember what their suggestion was to use, but i whatever it was, I laughed.

00:44:19.47
Mike
ahha

00:44:23.65
Mike
for if I have not

00:44:25.23
Bill
um But I'm like, I laughed more at a fucking i Nigerian dwarf goat. Have you ever heard of a Nigerian dwarf goat?

00:44:33.83
Bill
See, and out of all the people I know of my life, if anyone would have heard of a Nigerian fucking dwarf goat, it would have been my friend Mike over here.

00:44:37.07
Mike
a

00:44:41.91
Mike
Yes.

00:44:42.07
Bill
So, okay, cool.

00:44:42.94
Mike
yeah enough Cool.

00:44:45.91
Bill
But all right, yeah, whatever. is it I think it's about that time for a break, right?

00:44:49.38
Mike
it It is.

00:44:49.63
Bill
What do you think?

00:44:50.30
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. All right. We'll be more. We'll be back with more goat talk right after these words from our sponsor.

00:45:05.71
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. So go talk. we have the

00:45:10.21
Mike
a

00:45:11.89
Bill
You know what it reminded me of when I wrote it?

00:45:12.68
Mike
Welcome back to goat talk.

00:45:15.37
Bill
Yes, welcome back to Goat Talk with your friends Mike and Bill.

00:45:19.75
Mike
yeah

00:45:20.01
Bill
It reminded me of what episode was that that but we were talking about, the goat you got the goat with the fucking fedora. That's literally one of my favorite out of, because this is it this is now episode 155.

00:45:34.09
Bill
I always love your, um so for all our for all of our new listeners, cause I don't know if we mentioned this in the last few weeks, um the episode title, And the picture in every one of our episodes, except for one, um I did the the the Cheese Land Chronicles, I suggested the Grim Reaper with the Cheese Head.

00:45:44.79
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:45:53.74
Mike
Right.

00:45:54.37
Bill
That was the only one that i that i that I'm like, this let's use this one, it fits type of thing.

00:45:58.68
Mike
Right.

00:45:58.71
Bill
But other than that, so for 153 other, and now 154 with this one, Mike chooses the picture and the episode title. So um every once in a while, it's just as I'm flipping through something, I'm like, I can go back and I look at something, I fucking laugh every goddamn time because they're so stupid and they're they're stupid in a really fucking wonderful way, you know?

00:46:07.10
Mike
right Right.

00:46:15.33
Mike
Right. I try.

00:46:20.54
Bill
ah And some of them, seriously, i'll I'll open them up and I fucking laugh out loud, you know, because usually we get off the episode that, you know, I start doing whatever and, you know, start doing the shit here.

00:46:31.03
Bill
And then I don't know what, 10, 15 minutes later, sometimes a little bit longer within that timeframe.

00:46:33.61
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:46:35.87
Bill
You know, I get a text message and it's, ah it is, it's almost opening up a Christmas present. and I'm like, like, what's it going to be? What's it going to be? Yeah, it just ah yeah it makes ah it makes me laugh every time.

00:46:47.59
Bill
All right, so things that didn't make me laugh, it actually made me really happy this week. um shall we Shall we dip into the mailbag?

00:46:52.02
Mike
see Let's do it.

00:46:56.98
Bill
All right, so um we got a couple of them. Actually, I think the first one we got, um yeah, this one came through. So we use a website called PodPage for our sober, not mature website, our podcast website.

00:47:11.60
Bill
And that can, they can get messages through there and whatever. So that's how we that's how we ended up getting the first one. So as ah as a reminder, um obviously we, oh no, this wasn't the, that wasn't the first one I got.

00:47:24.72
Bill
Where's the first fucking one I got?

00:47:25.61
Mike
fantastic yeah Does it really matter?

00:47:27.52
Bill
because we got the one, I told you about the one from, I don't wanna, we'll get to it. this I think this this was the this was the first one that we got, but again, through pod page. So yeah, because it was one I was thinking about and I wrote down where the guy was from, but um again, we'll we'll get to it.

00:47:39.75
Mike
if Okay.

00:47:45.46
Bill
So we had asked last week, obviously same thing we started out with, you know, hey, let us know where you've heard of this, blah, blah, blah. So this guy says, hi guys, my name is Tim and I'm an alcoholic sober date 610 of 85, okay?

00:47:56.43
Mike
Nice.

00:47:57.35
Bill
So he says, okay, I'm hooked. Heard about sober, not mature on another podcast. um Check out checked out a couple of episodes and being the true alcoholic I am, I am now listening from the beginning. I may be 70 years old and sober for 39 plus years, but have no claim on maturity. ah Then he said, and I don't know if we talked, we had to have talked about this at some point, but he said, my favorite phrase driving might be yield means yield, you fucking pinhead.

00:48:26.91
Mike
she Nice.

00:48:27.83
Bill
yeah ah So he says, so think I might qualify to be a newly rabid listener. um I prefer conversational podcasts over speaker tapes, which is why I listened to more than one episode.

00:48:39.58
Bill
um Thanks for what you do. And as the 12 and 12 says, don't take yourself so damn seriously and you don't.

00:48:44.51
Mike
listen Thank you, Tim.

00:48:45.77
Bill
So this dude is from Maine. His name is Tim and from Maine. So thank you. Thank you, Tim. But um yeah, just ah in the the other podcast, because the first one that that I read, the guy said where where he heard us from.

00:49:00.33
Bill
And I think that might be in the sober, not mature email. Give me one second. I have more than one.

00:49:03.96
Mike
All right.

00:49:05.02
Bill
I have more than one. Well, yeah, I know you do too. But fuck, I got all these fucking info info emails. It's just fucking ridiculous. Where's the dude from? Oh, here we go.

00:49:15.55
Bill
Is this the one? um a yes it is okay yeah so this i believe this was the first one that we got um dear mike and bill i hope this email finds you well my name is russell and i'm reaching out from cape town south africa

00:49:32.03
Mike
Nice.

00:49:32.33
Bill
yeah um I've been listening to your podcast. I'm really enjoying it I wanted to let you know that I heard about your podcast through sober speak where Gary be and the host gave you a shout-out Shared your podcast on our whatsapp beam group.

00:49:42.60
Mike
Cool.

00:49:45.04
Bill
He puts a link in there that I did not click into um Keep up the fantastic work. I'll continue to tune in and appreciate your content best regards Russell So yeah, this dude's from South Africa and I and I looked and you could see

00:49:56.10
Mike
Nice.

00:49:58.88
Bill
Yeah. I mean, we got a hit on our website from obviously South Africa. So the guy wasn't lying. So thank you, Russell.

00:50:03.31
Mike
Well, thank you.

00:50:04.72
Bill
Thanks. Thanks for the email and thanks for not being a lying fuck, you know, that you actually.

00:50:08.23
Mike
Yes, we appreciate that.

00:50:10.01
Bill
We actually did have one person check in for South Africa, so I know it's true. So here's the thing in what I wrote down. So in i it didn't click right away when the guy said sober speak. Obviously, we've had Gary on.

00:50:23.46
Bill
um Anyone who was a new listener, go back to we had Gary on episode 81 and episode 117.

00:50:23.72
Mike
Right.

00:50:30.73
Bill
We will have Gary on again. he's just he's He's become a friend and he's a good dude.

00:50:32.22
Mike
Yep.

00:50:34.84
Bill
um And then we had John from sober speak on episode 121. I think that was over the summer July area. Cause I think I was in Wisconsin when, when we had him on, but he's the one sober speak is his website.

00:50:45.98
Mike
Okay.

00:50:48.30
Bill
That's the name of his podcast. So that's where these people are are hearing us. um And I listened to the episode and literally it's in like the first 10 minutes of Gary's episode that we're brought up, that both John and him are talking about us.

00:51:01.65
Mike
hu

00:51:04.66
Mike
hey

00:51:04.74
Bill
um Basically so they they heard of each other from our podcast, because they both were on our podcast.

00:51:09.34
Mike
Well, that's cool.

00:51:10.10
Bill
That's how that's how they came together and then ended up, Gary ended up being a guest on on his. um Yeah, but then,

00:51:16.58
Mike
Or in Sestuis, one of the two.

00:51:18.07
Bill
Yeah. John said something about, he's like, he's like, oh, he goes, those guys have a hell of a sense of humor. Something like that. It was, it was actually really funny. I was kind of laughing, but it couldn't have been more than a, I don't know, two minute conversation, three minute conversation.

00:51:26.63
Mike
Cool.

00:51:29.58
Mike
All right.

00:51:31.24
Bill
Um, so I had actually left a message for John on that episode, Spotify, cause I listened to the whole thing.

00:51:36.02
Mike
Huh?

00:51:37.05
Bill
Um, But I might reach out to hit to him again, because obviously, you know if we're getting some playback at fourth, it might be good for you know for all of us involved.

00:51:43.07
Mike
ah

00:51:44.26
Bill
But but yeah, so we've had, um once again, we had Gary on episode 81 and 117. John was on episode 121. So in Listening to SoberSpeak, I've listened to John.

00:51:54.64
Bill
He's a good dude. He's got a lot of great great guests and great topics. And he was fun. He was fun to talk to. He he kind of interviewed us back and forth too as yes we were talking to him, which is which is always fun.

00:51:59.17
Mike
Absolutely.

00:52:05.98
Bill
It's always fun.

00:52:06.11
Mike
Absolutely.

00:52:07.42
Bill
So, um okay, um I think I have two more. um This dude says, I'm enjoying the first of your podcasts I have listened to.

00:52:17.99
Bill
ah John from sober speaking is guest Gary. We're talking about you guys. I like to listen to sober podcasts when I need a meeting, but I can't get to one. I'm liking what I hear so far.

00:52:26.02
Mike
right

00:52:27.29
Bill
And we'll go back and listen to some of the older episodes episodes. Thanks for sharing. So thank you.

00:52:32.49
Mike
Go.

00:52:33.44
Bill
That dude's name, it came over as Moosey, M-O-O-S-I-E.

00:52:37.76
Mike
All right.

00:52:38.92
Bill
And then um got another one.

00:52:40.62
Mike
Hi Moosie.

00:52:42.03
Bill
yeah yeah Another one, this is Billy C. um He starts off What's Up Fellas. My name is Billy C. from West Islip, New York.

00:52:49.86
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:50.03
Bill
ah Clean and sober date, 6'6 of 96.

00:52:52.08
Mike
Ooh.

00:52:53.79
Bill
Maintain a home group, a Serenity by the Sea in Bayshore, New York. A sponsor and a committed or commitment throughout my 28 and a half years, this shit works. Um, you asked on the last podcast while you have more listeners speaking for myself.

00:53:06.41
Bill
I heard your podcast mentioned on, um, sober. He said sober cast, but I know it's sober speak with John looking forward to adding a sober, not mature to my playlist of sober people, uh, keep up the good work on working on word and upward.

00:53:11.67
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:53:20.35
Bill
So, um, Oh, you know, I have one more.

00:53:20.66
Mike
Nice.

00:53:23.33
Bill
I'm sorry about that.

00:53:23.79
Mike
Oh, shit.

00:53:24.97
Bill
I know I said I,

00:53:25.62
Mike
My ego's getting steroked.

00:53:27.75
Bill
I said I got a fucking bag full of these. Okay. Um, so this, this, this guy's name is guy. Um, you wanted to know where the, hello guy.

00:53:36.49
Mike
Hi, guy. sorry i'm Sorry, he's never heard that before.

00:53:40.91
Bill
right what's up guy um you guys wanted to you wanted to know where the hell i said where the fuck people are coming from but anyhow ah where the hell people are coming from here you go reddit he said that it was a recommendation on stop drinking he thinks and i'm like really i tried to search for something on reddit whatever i mean hey if we came across on reddit more power to him

00:54:01.48
Mike
Right. Cool.

00:54:02.43
Bill
Um, he had a five, uh, says had a five year bout of sobriety lapsed during COVID back on the wagon for nine months. Originally from UK lived in Russia, Saudi, Hungary, Kuwait, Maryland, California, and now Minnesota.

00:54:16.38
Mike
Wow.

00:54:17.41
Bill
And he ordered a long sleeve t-shirt from us from the website.

00:54:20.50
Mike
oh

00:54:20.81
Bill
So yeah.

00:54:21.16
Mike
Cool.

00:54:22.50
Bill
So thank you guy.

00:54:23.90
Mike
Right. Damn. Doing some geographics out there, huh, guy?

00:54:28.68
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

00:54:29.52
Mike
yeah

00:54:31.00
Bill
Exactly. But yeah, that was I was gonna say that hey, that was it. That's it. But yeah, that was that was it.

00:54:35.40
Mike
Right.

00:54:36.34
Bill
But that yeah, literally, literally that the thing that is number one, thank you.

00:54:36.81
Mike
Wow. Cool.

00:54:41.06
Bill
I know. Thank you for both of us, right, Mike?

00:54:42.42
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

00:54:43.02
Bill
I mean, I could speak for you there, too. The thanks is all I've decided the table.

00:54:44.97
Mike
Thank. I absolutely and welcome and hang around and hell tell a friend.

00:54:48.47
Bill
yeah

00:54:51.70
Bill
Yeah, exactly. And and seriously, when when I said it before, and when we were talking about it, we do not, the the number of emails, messages, and things like that we get, and we're coming up on a couple of weeks on the 27th, will be three years doing this thing, okay?

00:55:04.30
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. Yup.

00:55:07.76
Bill
And and we probably, that's that's more he emails that we've got probably the entire calendar year of 2024, which,

00:55:13.50
Mike
Yikes. Oh, absolutely.

00:55:16.57
Bill
Which again is fine, you know, we don't necessarily, we don't, we don't necessarily need that, but I'll tell you what, every once in a while, it's pretty cool being the hot chick, like I said before.

00:55:17.86
Mike
Yeah. It is goddamn.

00:55:29.16
Bill
Yeah, so so there. But yeah, like like Mike said, yeah, I mean, if, um ah I don't know, tell yeah tell somebody, if you guys like what you're hearing, we appreciate it.

00:55:35.98
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

00:55:38.09
Bill
um it's it is um it's It's more humbling. God fuck. I mean, before, i this this would be a ah true ego. Like you said, you know, my ego's getting stroked.

00:55:47.54
Mike
Yes.

00:55:49.38
Bill
It's almost I don't want any of the various things the wrong word. It's truly humbling to have people reach out like that and and say nice things because if you just started listening, literally, we started this just to occupy our Friday nights, get together and shoot the shit and literally to begin, with we thought if people listen fine, if they don't, fuck them.

00:55:55.33
Mike
Absolutely.

00:56:01.28
Mike
Yup.

00:56:10.77
Bill
If people like it, cool.

00:56:10.86
Mike
Yup.

00:56:11.81
Bill
If they don't, fuck them.

00:56:13.58
Mike
Yup.

00:56:15.52
Bill
And you know what, I mean, it's kind of that way we've had people, you know, that that don't like us. It's been a long time since we've gotten a negative comment.

00:56:19.76
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. We like those too.

00:56:23.93
Bill
Oh, those are fucking fun. Those are a lot of fun.

00:56:25.70
Mike
Yep.

00:56:26.51
Bill
Because I i remember to begin with, God, early episode we were talking about, we were like, yeah, you know, I think you said that. You're like, yeah, whatever the conversation was, keep the trolls out, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then then I'm like, shit, should we really tell people?

00:56:35.40
Mike
see

00:56:38.06
Bill
No, let's let's invite it let's invite the trolls.

00:56:38.79
Mike
No, please. Troll away.

00:56:43.49
Bill
Yeah.

00:56:43.61
Mike
We could take it.

00:56:44.91
Bill
Yeah, in a plus it gives us it gives us a lot of good conversation, too. so But anyhow, seriously, thank thank everyone. Again, if you're new and you haven't reached out, it'd be interesting to see, again, where people come from, even if it's from the same place, what area of the country.

00:56:59.49
Bill
I mean, I can see you know kind of where people come from here and there.

00:57:02.29
Mike
Right.

00:57:02.37
Bill
but Um, seriously, I mean, we've had, we've had more, more listens, more plays, more activity in the last three weeks than we've had in in months. And, um, it's, it's humbling and it's it's gratifying, but it's also, you know, again, truly, truly humbling.

00:57:16.54
Bill
So I don't know if all I can say is, Oh God, yeah.

00:57:16.89
Mike
Yeah. And appreciated. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:57:19.26
Bill
Yeah.

00:57:20.47
Mike
We are grateful for you fuckers.

00:57:23.20
Bill
ah Yeah. It's like every, every once in a while, and I didn't even think about it anymore that, you know, um, and we break the fourth wall every once in a while. We're like, you know, talk to people that way. But, um, we literally ah just have a conversation here and I, I really forget sometimes it's like, yeah, we re we fucking talked about that.

00:57:39.01
Bill
Jesus Christ.

00:57:40.11
Mike
Right.

00:57:42.35
Bill
But you know,

00:57:43.28
Mike
We said that and someone actually heard us? Fuck.

00:57:45.36
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you're like, God damn, i I can't believe I shared that on the, on the airways, but it's all good.

00:57:48.05
Mike
yeah

00:57:50.68
Bill
It's all good. So, all right. So, um, from God grant me, I have a,

00:57:55.37
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:57:59.82
Bill
I'm just gonna read this like it came out of my fucking mouth. Okay, listen, I have a list my present challenges and what gifts can be found within them. So I'll i'll read it back the way it should be.

00:58:11.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:12.01
Bill
um I will or shall list my present challenges and what gifts can be found within them. So are there any challenges that you're having at the moment?

00:58:24.89
Bill
And can you find a gift in the challenge?

00:58:28.31
Mike
Um. ha Yeah.

00:58:29.81
Bill
i heard that little bi quite

00:58:32.75
Mike
ah Um, you know, I now I'm not really a channel. I don't know. No, not, not really. Things are pretty fucking good. Um,

00:58:45.20
Mike
But that being said, you know clearly we've had challenges and um yeah, the gifts are, you know the being able to get through it without you know having to fucking pick up a drink or a drug, that's a huge gift.

00:58:49.94
Bill
right

00:58:55.22
Bill
I heard that.

00:59:00.15
Mike
um Be able to handle shit, be able to to know that we're not doing it by ourselves anymore. That's that's a wonderful gift. It doesn't matter what the challenges. In the present moment, no, I'm sitting here in my house doing a podcast and shit's pretty fucking good.

00:59:16.35
Mike
My car's fixed and you know, I had a day off of work and fuck man, life's pretty goddamn good.

00:59:17.99
Bill
hey

00:59:22.18
Mike
Um, I'm going to have some friends over in a couple of weeks to play some cards and you know, shit, do you know, or I won't cause it's fucking two weeks away. Who knows? Um,

00:59:30.98
Bill
hey

00:59:31.52
Mike
But and know ill i' be a week away from today, if things go the way they should, ah we're going to go float. And then Chris and I are going out to dinner for Valentine's Day slash my birthday.

00:59:46.24
Mike
um and you know And fuck man, life's goddamn good right now. i But take the gifts, um yeah, you know I know that no matter what happens, good or bad, um I will get through it and um I will be sober and I'm probably not gonna hurt anybody too fucking bad getting through it.

00:59:51.15
Bill
Right.

01:00:08.18
Bill
I like the fact that you qualified that too fucking bad.

01:00:09.94
Mike
Of course, have to.

01:00:11.72
Bill
No, I know. I know. It's justs it's funny. It's like ah yeah it's like we we do. We have to say, well, just so you know, I'm not going to try. But it could happen.

01:00:19.83
Mike
Right. Yeah, it could, you know, but yeah, it's, it's a hell of a lot better than it's guaranteed. I'm going to fucking hurt you no matter what happens, um, good or bad. Uh, so yes, um, I'm going to, my impact will be very light one way or another.

01:00:39.22
Bill
Right. Yeah, and you know what, I mean that's a that's a good point about. um I mean, I don't know you could. I suppose you could have looked at your like you said your cars fixed I mean it was a, it was I mean I supposed to begin with maybe a challenge but you know, ah again it's a it's a, it's a life thing you know.

01:00:48.50
Mike
Right.

01:00:52.14
Mike
Eh.

01:00:54.79
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:00:55.19
Bill
um what you and I talked about with my car thing a couple weeks ago, it is what it is type of thing.

01:00:58.70
Mike
Right.

01:01:00.10
Bill
But you know, the there are, I know there's been things, plenty of challenges over the last, you know, again, almost 15 years where, you know, something happens in ah at a particular time, place or or whatever it is.

01:01:00.14
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:06.44
Mike
Sure.

01:01:11.14
Bill
And you're like, you're kind of like, well, what the fuck, man?

01:01:12.00
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:13.74
Bill
And, um you know, like you said, the gift is number one, no we know how to deal with it.

01:01:17.26
Mike
Yep.

01:01:18.37
Bill
doesn' it It doesn't matter what what has been thrown at us. There's been some shit thrown at us over the years.

01:01:22.76
Mike
Of course.

01:01:22.92
Bill
Not terrible. You know I think I say it all the time that I, I know just from ah the people we hang with the stories that we listen to. There's people out there that have had really challenging times and years far more challenging than I have.

01:01:39.40
Mike
Right.

01:01:39.88
Bill
as far as my sobriety. I consider my sobriety to be relatively smooth with life bumps here and there. you know But I mean, everyone has those.

01:01:46.25
Mike
Right. Yes.

01:01:48.48
Bill
um you know But no matter what's been thrown at us, I mean, we we know that we've got the tools to deal with it. We know that even if we have no fucking clue on what to do, we can go to somebody.

01:01:58.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:01:59.73
Bill
um And the gift behind that is like you said, if if nothing else, I know I'm gonna get through it.

01:02:04.07
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:04.69
Bill
And at some point,

01:02:05.13
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:07.50
Bill
something's gonna be revealed to me. I think more is what they say, more.

01:02:10.76
Mike
I believe so.

01:02:11.89
Bill
I've heard that more, more is to be something revealed at some point.

01:02:13.19
Mike
Yep. Yes. Yes.

01:02:17.76
Bill
um But yeah, I mean, I may not know why why something happened right now or why I felt a certain way, but either I'll figure it out at some point or I fucking won't, you know, and I'll get through it, you know?

01:02:27.76
Mike
Right. Exactly.

01:02:29.35
Bill
like Like you said that, maybe that in and of itself is the fucking gift, right?

01:02:33.10
Mike
It is. It's a fucking wonderful gift and I'm very grateful that we have it.

01:02:38.21
Bill
Yeah, right. um This is gonna be a random one. I'm just kind of looking back. I got i get so many of these things that I wonder sometimes if as I'm glancing over these two things that i I've written down, you know it's just over the years that some of these readings tend to be tend to be the same or a Christ, it could be some of these things could have been sitting here for a fucking year for all I know.

01:02:59.26
Mike
Right.

01:02:59.44
Bill
So I could be reading the same thing a year later. um So I'm just gonna pick one out from, keep it simple. We need friends who will not just tell us what we wanna hear, but what we are doing wrong, okay?

01:03:11.42
Mike
Absolutely.

01:03:12.63
Bill
I know I knew you'd agree with that, but the question I wrote down in parentheses is why is that so important?

01:03:22.54
Mike
Um, because, um, uh, yeah, my way doesn't fucking work. My life is fucking unmanageable. Step one. Shit. And yes, my, you know, my life is unmanageable. I need, I need other people to to help me out with this shit. Cause clearly my way doesn't work.

01:03:41.03
Mike
You know, I need I need fresh perspective like we talked about in the beginning, you know, I doesn't necessarily, you know, I'm i'm too emotionally wrapped up in my own shit. And I am.

01:03:52.03
Mike
Thankfully, I know that today. And and um right, you know, I get some clear perspective from an outside source.

01:03:56.00
Bill
yeah

01:04:01.84
Mike
and And I need that. And I know I need that. I don't have all the answers. My way is fucked up. um Yeah. yeah It's, it's, it's a wonderful thing.

01:04:13.86
Bill
I like that we did the two, you're like, whoof.

01:04:18.57
Bill
But yeah, you know, and that's the thing that there are, and I'll be honest, I mean, with to this to this day, I mean, I think I'm pretty open to hearing other people's opinions um most of the time.

01:04:27.95
Mike
Right. right

01:04:31.26
Bill
um But when it comes to people in sobriety, I could take those opinions far easier than I could take them from somebody else.

01:04:41.12
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

01:04:41.54
Bill
Does that make sense? Okay, I was trying to think about that. I'm like, does that make sense? And I hope it does, because um I may not like, and I didn't even think I've, I didn't even think there's there's been things along the way that you said to me that I didn't like.

01:04:54.61
Bill
It may be uncomfortable to hear,

01:04:56.82
Mike
h

01:04:57.15
Bill
I may not want to hear it only in the in the fact that i I wish I wasn't, i I don't want to be in that position to deserve that. yeah You know what I mean?

01:05:06.87
Mike
Right.

01:05:07.71
Bill
i i And I didn't wish. If I were acting the way I needed to, i wouldn't be I wouldn't need to be told by another sober individual that I needed to get my shit together.

01:05:13.25
Mike
Right.

01:05:17.29
Bill
That's a better way to put it.

01:05:17.43
Mike
Right. Yeah, absolutely. But that's, but that's, but that's gonna fucking happen.

01:05:20.88
Bill
Right.

01:05:23.55
Bill
right

01:05:23.67
Mike
Right. Yeah. ah Clearly. Right. Again, if, ah if our way was working, if we had all the goddamn answers, we wouldn't need any of this shit.

01:05:31.62
Bill
Right, and's ah that's a goddamn good point. but um But yeah, sometimes, I mean, it's just if you're a random individual, especially if somebody doesn't know me really well, um maybe even if somebody knows me well, and maybe somebody's trying to push buttons, which I really don't have, I can't even, well, Mom was probably the last person I had in my in my life that um that knew do what buttons to push and did, and she did that with fucking everyone.

01:05:47.13
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah. Right.

01:05:54.54
Mike
see Right.

01:05:56.95
Bill
um love her to death but again she had this and I take it back it's it's generational it's how she it's how she lived it's how she was raised and you know and that's the one thing I'm not saying that anyone or every I'm not saying anyone needs therapy but I I know some of the shit that she went through

01:05:58.23
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:06:05.39
Mike
Right.

01:06:09.71
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:06:13.46
Bill
And I just don't think that she really came to grips with a lot of things.

01:06:16.87
Mike
Sure.

01:06:17.38
Bill
And I think she had a lot of pain and I, I part of the, and I don't even know how I like to say, I gave her a lot of, a lot of leeway and a lot of grace because I knew that she didn't deal with a lot of her pain over the years.

01:06:26.29
Mike
sure Sure.

01:06:29.96
Bill
And I knew where it was coming from. It wasn't personal.

01:06:31.63
Mike
Right.

01:06:32.78
Bill
It was fucking mean sometimes, but it wasn't personal.

01:06:35.29
Mike
Right. Well, yeah. Well, that's exactly right.

01:06:38.12
Bill
It wasn't personal.

01:06:38.98
Mike
Yeah. That's well, that's working a proper eighth step, isn't it?

01:06:42.28
Bill
Right, right. But, um you know, so so in those circumstances, I mean, um I don't really have people that are actively trying to push by buttons, but those are the ones that I don't really want to listen to opinions.

01:06:54.17
Bill
If somebody tells me to do something, I'm like, oh, fuck you, I'll do the other thing. Whereas if somebody has sobriety standpoint, and unless somebody and again, I don't have I don't hang around. I was going to say, unless somebody is trying to, you know, quote unquote, take my inventory, um you know, which that doesn't even happen because I don't spend time with those type of people in recovery.

01:07:11.61
Mike
sure Right.

01:07:12.73
Bill
So, I mean, I do, I take what people tell me, specifically a person like you, because of, you know, you and I are so goddamn close.

01:07:20.43
Mike
Right.

01:07:20.78
Bill
um I value your opinion, and i if you didn't say something to me, and I went off the fucking deep end, I wouldn't blame you for it, but I'd be like, dude, what the fuck, man?

01:07:27.98
Mike
Hmm. Yeah, right. Yeah, we right. Why did you let me fucking get this far?

01:07:33.09
Bill
Yeah, I mean, you didn't...

01:07:33.20
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's, and that's the thing we, we don't, that's because it's, again, it's all part of this thing that we're doing. We're not going to let, we're not going to, because we care, we actually give a fuck about somebody other than ourselves today.

01:07:46.98
Mike
So we're not going to allow somebody that we care about to get that far and far off the deep end.

01:07:52.25
Bill
Right.

01:07:52.64
Mike
You know, yeah, right. And we know that if someone's doing that to us, we're getting pretty close to the deep end. um There's a reason that they're doing that to us.

01:08:03.02
Bill
Right.

01:08:03.07
Mike
Yeah, you know, it comes from a place of love and caring and and and concern. and And yeah, you know, it comes from a positive place. It's not this negative bullshit. Just try to push your buttons and and and fuck with you.

01:08:14.90
Mike
and you're Right. It comes from a place of love. It comes from a good place. So, right.

01:08:18.41
Bill
Right.

01:08:19.31
Mike
yeah So we accept it more because we understand it. We know that, yeah, the people in our lives aren't trying to fucking hurt us, you know, even if it fucking hurts when they're doing it.

01:08:30.42
Bill
Right.

01:08:33.92
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:34.64
Bill
Yeah. And that's a, that's a good point. I mean, we don't, uh, but that goes back to everything that we always talk about. You know, we, um, I, I think both of us are very, you know, picky and discerning and all those sort of things when it comes to, um, you know, the, the choices we make in life specifically with people, you know, that we choose to spend time with.

01:08:43.87
Mike
Mm.

01:08:50.00
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Who we allow in. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:08:52.39
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

01:08:54.60
Mike
Yeah. Fucking amen. I ain't got time for any bullshit today.

01:08:58.25
Bill
Right.

01:08:58.43
Mike
I'm way too sober for this shit.

01:09:01.41
Bill
Yeah, no fucking doubt.

01:09:04.27
Mike
a

01:09:05.60
Bill
But so that that kind of ah that kind of jumps into the next one. This is just a couple down from from this one. it says This was from the 24-hour book. um It says, as we gradually became problem drinkers, our lives became more and more unnatural.

01:09:19.41
Bill
And it says, do I realize now the things I did were far from natural? And so my question to you was, um I mean, while you were drinking, well, I guess two questions. What do you think, I don't even know if this is the right way to put it, like the most unnatural thing that that you were doing on a daily basis while you were drinking, or did you realize that your life was, you know, not going along what this natural human path should be? Does that make any sense?

01:09:45.35
Mike
That makes sense of Right. and And I actually, I know that reading. Um, I always liked that one out of there.

01:09:52.52
Bill
Right.

01:09:52.82
Mike
It was one of the, yeah, that made a lot of sense to me. Um, yes. Uh, well, I'm living in a way that wasn't natural. I don't know. Dumping poison in my body every fucking day.

01:10:03.41
Mike
Oh, not exactly natural.

01:10:04.59
Bill
Right.

01:10:06.42
Mike
Um, but yeah, you know, her um, being a part of. the way things are supposed to be, you know, fighting against, um, fighting against good, you know, is fucking unnatural, man.

01:10:26.10
Mike
You know, we're supposed to be contributing to the good. Um, and, and when we do that, our lives are easier. The lives of the people around us are easier. That's what I take from that.

01:10:38.67
Mike
Um, of course I was actually acting unnaturally, you know, aside from,

01:10:38.69
Bill
Right.

01:10:43.05
Mike
putting poison in my body every fucking day. Um, right. You know, just being, being an asshole, being. but trying to irritate people around me on purpose because I was so fucking miserable.

01:10:56.44
Mike
Misery loves company.

01:10:58.37
Bill
Right.

01:10:58.64
Mike
Um, you know, I'm right. We want to be even in the depths of my addiction and my misery and in all of that. I didn't want to be truly alone.

01:11:09.68
Mike
So if I was totally fucking miserable, I wanted people around me to be miserable. You know, um, now that I'm relatively happy, I want people around me to be happy.

01:11:20.53
Mike
It's just, yeah, you know, again, birds of a feather. Um, I want to be a part of what I want to be a part of, if that makes sense.

01:11:29.47
Bill
Right.

01:11:30.00
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:31.25
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, I was even, I kind of, uh, as I was reading that back, I was thinking of, you know, like you said, poison in your body and like me taking fucking shots and beers every morning to put context in, I mean, all, all unnatural behavior.

01:11:36.60
Mike
Hmm. Right. Mm hmm.

01:11:43.78
Bill
Um, you know, going into work loaded every day and just all these different things, you know? Um, but yeah, that's a, that's a really, really good point. Um, just the, the way that we were, um, I know that I, and obviously you just said that that we were acting as human beings and to the people around us, you know, when something went wrong, who can I, number one, who can I blame and who can I go fucking vent to and not even vent saying, Ooh, listen to me, but you are part of my problem.

01:12:04.54
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:12:08.93
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah.

01:12:10.68
Bill
You know?

01:12:11.08
Mike
Why are you fucking up my life?

01:12:13.20
Bill
Right? Yeah. Well, can I, you know, obviously I think about, you know, when Dawn and I went through our stuff and I went through, um I mean, mom, mom and I went through a bad, bad time on on a couple of different occasions, you know, and, you know, but around even the time when like, like Derek was born and stuff like that, we had this, this thing going on.

01:12:25.47
Mike
Right.

01:12:32.63
Bill
ah When Dawn and I split, you know, we had this thing going on. There was just this, this tension, you know, and I know what it was.

01:12:38.03
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:12:38.68
Bill
I know what it was now, you know, it was me.

01:12:41.74
Mike
Right.

01:12:42.63
Bill
you know and and she would never back down from a fight you know so she was a perfect person to fight with you know because I knew she'd always come back at it you know um but uh yeah that's god what a great way to put it just you know making again birds of a feather making people miserable along with us and god damn what a fucking horrible what a horrible way to live god

01:12:45.97
Mike
Course. Mm hmm.

01:12:50.97
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:12:57.68
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:00.20
Mike
Right. Yep. Unnatural.

01:13:08.72
Bill
Yeah, you know what, um let's see, what was that natural fucking all of it?

01:13:11.30
Mike
Yep.

01:13:14.15
Bill
Jesus Christ. yeah All right, so um I've got, I think, yeah I don't know if it's one or two, I know I've got at least one news story, but I wanna tell you a couple of things about about this area.

01:13:25.48
Bill
First of all,

01:13:26.01
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:26.52
Bill
Um, I like, I like Amarillo.

01:13:28.66
Mike
Mm.

01:13:29.68
Bill
I really do. Um, it's, it's kind of funny though. It's just when, when I was driving and driving around and stuff like that, it's, it's not like, um, like when I was in Albuquerque, you pull out of the area that I was in, you to look to the right and there's fucking mountains everywhere or you run across desert stuff.

01:13:42.83
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:13:44.69
Bill
Same thing with Phoenix is you're driving along. You see a lot of that, that, that landscape and that scenery.

01:13:48.59
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:13:50.15
Bill
you don't see a lot of that here.

01:13:51.76
Mike
Right.

01:13:51.78
Bill
um So it's almost it's easy to forget where you are, you know, because it's not it's not Texas ish, or it's not whatever the place is, it's not that, you know, but I don't mean that in a bad way.

01:13:55.31
Mike
Right.

01:13:58.54
Mike
Right.

01:14:01.49
Mike
Right.

01:14:03.28
Bill
Okay, so that was number one.

01:14:03.35
Mike
Right.

01:14:05.20
Bill
Um, but as I was driving into here and I, and I, once I book a place and stuff like that, I'll hit Google street view and then cruise around the neighborhood and it looked like some older homes or whatever. I'm like, yeah, no big deal.

01:14:15.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:15.51
Bill
But as I was pulling in here, I'm looking at some of these, you know, you see some of these houses like that one looks kind of rundown that once this I'm like, as the kids would say, I'm like, this looks a little sketch.

01:14:23.20
Mike
Mm.

01:14:24.47
Bill
You know, and um it's like two blocks away from the highway, which is fine. Not a big deal. ah When you stand outside, you know, you can hear the the traffic noise. ah Again, nothing big, nothing out of the ordinary. um But i as i'm as I'm looking through here, and either even the, this is a a place behind a house, and it says in the Airbnb thing, they're remodeling the house in front.

01:14:46.58
Bill
And as I started looking at a little bit of driving it around that I've done very little, but that's what it looks like. It looks like this is a neighborhood that kind of people are, um it's not being like gentrified or anything like that, but just looks like there's people are buying these older homes and it looks like an area that kind of ran down.

01:15:00.40
Bill
It's coming back up, you know?

01:15:01.47
Mike
Right.

01:15:02.02
Bill
So that's why, again, it does look a little sketchy because I think some people are buying some of these abandoned homes or fixing them up.

01:15:07.85
Mike
Right.

01:15:08.23
Bill
So no issues, anything like that, you know, nothing at all. I haven't felt unsafe or it's been perfect. but the screaming cock. yeah yeah youre probably You probably know what I mean.

01:15:17.31
Mike
Yes Right

01:15:19.51
Bill
It's a goddamn rooster down the road. um And all fucking day, as soon as you you start to get a little bit of light, because I mean, I'm up at five zero in the morning and I'll be sitting here doing my reading here down of the road.

01:15:33.26
Bill
And I'm like, what the fuck the first day. And then I just keep hearing a little bit in the background and I don't know where it's at, but, um, all day, all goddamn day. And it's a few houses down. So it's not like it's like really loud or anything like that.

01:15:45.21
Mike
right

01:15:45.75
Bill
But when it's quiet in here and, um, uh, or if I'm outside, obviously when there's light is this fucking thing is just constant.

01:15:51.51
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:15:53.75
Bill
And I'm like, Jesus Christ. I'm like, shut your goddamn cock up.

01:15:59.09
Mike
Right.

01:16:01.63
Bill
but again it's it's it's fine it's fine it's nothing nothing bad but um that i went down to on sunday went down to that that pauladuro canyon um a fucking mind-blowing okay so i missed the grand canyon i talked about that obviously the weather didn't take a trip up there um when i showed kimmy some of the pictures she's like oh my god she's like that looks literally like a bitty grand canyon and i'm like

01:16:08.25
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm.

01:16:24.82
Mike
Right.

01:16:25.74
Bill
I'm like, that's exactly what it is. I said, it is clearly not as expansive as, and I was only in part of, but when you drive in there, you're going down this, you know, down this one, take a left.

01:16:27.71
Mike
see Right.

01:16:36.49
Bill
It's just like 30 minutes away from here. It's not that far. And you take this left on this road and then it's a, it's like a, I don't know, kind of a farm road type of thing, but it it's fucking 75 mile an hour road, like a back, like a back road.

01:16:45.91
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah.

01:16:50.10
Bill
and I'm like, this is fucking weird. But I'm like, boom, fucking barrel it down there. And then you get up and you go in, it was probably 15, 20 minute wait for me to get in there because it was Sunday, it was beautiful.

01:17:00.67
Bill
um I mean, shit, it was like fucking 80 degrees or 75 degrees or whatever it was.

01:17:04.10
Mike
Right.

01:17:04.89
Bill
um And then you literally, you drive, the road goes down into the canyon. So you're, that's where, you know, all these trails are.

01:17:11.03
Mike
Right.

01:17:13.35
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:17:13.48
Bill
So I hit this one and I mean, I don't know, you probably saw the pictures, but so I went up on that, on this one peak and it was probably three miles total back and forth.

01:17:16.88
Mike
Right.

01:17:20.39
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:17:22.71
Bill
and but I mean it was when I was reading all this up it was some people complaining like oh you know this was this and it should be weighted or you know said it's more than just whatever and again I can see what they're talking about same thing as the last trail I was on it wasn't fucking hard but you are you're ah they're they're called switchbacks it's kind of like winding back and forth getting up

01:17:41.34
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:17:43.26
Bill
Um, but I mean, I was, I get up and I'm like, I took, I don't know how many fucking pictures, but like 70.

01:17:48.64
Mike
Right.

01:17:49.21
Bill
And I'm like, I'm looking at this. I feel like I'm looking at the same ship and I'm like, it was spectacular.

01:17:53.66
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:17:54.13
Bill
And I only saw a portion of it that I went down and I saw this one right off the road. I don't know, probably literally the equivalent of two blocks where that cave was. So that was kind of cool.

01:18:02.56
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:18:03.80
Bill
Um, yeah.

01:18:04.50
Mike
That was the part I was at. Whatever. Yeah.

01:18:06.83
Bill
Oh, you did that.

01:18:06.86
Mike
Thirty five. Yeah. Thirty five years ago or some shit. Right.

01:18:10.94
Bill
ah Okay, so that big cave you were there?

01:18:12.31
Mike
Yep.

01:18:13.00
Bill
Oh, no shit. Okay.

01:18:14.03
Mike
Yep.

01:18:14.25
Bill
Yeah, literally with it, you know, it like it's like, I mean, two block walk off the off the road.

01:18:15.13
Mike
Yep.

01:18:18.13
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:18:19.60
Bill
um But man, it was just it was nice. I would have loved to spend more time there. But um fucking well worth is $8 to get in, you know, and I was just fucking mind blown.

01:18:26.74
Mike
who

01:18:29.91
Bill
It was so fucking beautiful. So beautiful.

01:18:31.50
Mike
Yes.

01:18:32.49
Bill
But highly, highly, highly recommend it. I'm sure there's other places to see around here because it was like a couple of hour, hour and a half away. There was another, oh, it's another canyon or whatever it is.

01:18:43.46
Bill
But fuck, this place is just in the summertime.

01:18:43.99
Mike
Hmm.

01:18:46.35
Bill
I can't even fucking imagine because there's no way you do it.

01:18:47.92
Mike
Right.

01:18:49.57
Bill
You might be able to get one couple of times here and there where you can grab some shade where you block by part of the hill about whatever.

01:18:55.04
Mike
Right.

01:18:55.83
Bill
Um, but yeah, I mean, you're just in, when you walk in, they've got this literally like this, um, this dial that tells you how quickly you're going to fucking burn depending on the day.

01:19:00.63
Mike
Hmm.

01:19:05.59
Bill
And I didn't, I thought about it right before I left. Cause I have sunscreen and I have bug spray in my little backpack. Um, but I haven't been carrying it with me late because I mean, it hasn't been, you know,

01:19:14.35
Mike
Right.

01:19:15.44
Bill
um but I had a little chilly when I first got there so I had a long sleeve shirt on when I first left um but I put sunscreen on my arms and my neck and stuff like that before I left and I'm glad I did because I would have got fucking burned I mean there's no there's no fucking down I mean I was out there for a couple hours um but again just highly fucking recommended it was it was nice but yeah this whole area um it's wonderful the weather's been great and

01:19:15.63
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:22.87
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

01:19:37.60
Bill
You know, it gets it, it's like 25, 30 degrees in the morning and it, it's been warming up not every day, but you know, there's some days it was fucking 88 degrees the other day.

01:19:46.21
Mike
Nice.

01:19:47.04
Bill
And it was like 30, 28 or 30 degrees in the morning. And I'm like, what?

01:19:52.92
Mike
Right.

01:19:53.48
Bill
but dumb But yeah, it was nice. Highly recommended. I love the area and the place I'm staying place i'm staying is nice.

01:19:57.12
Mike
z Right.

01:19:59.16
Bill
Oh, the the lock on the door has got one of the keypad locks. um As it got warm, that the door itself must have swelled a little bit, then the the door wasn't locking.

01:20:09.90
Bill
So they yeah they finally, i I'm like, God, fuck, I thought maybe it was just, I didn't know what was going on. um But you had to kind of like to lock the door You kind of had to like push on the door and lift up a little bit to get the get the deadbolt to lock And I couldn't go anywhere because um, you know, I couldn't it wouldn't lock from the outside You know so that when I went to the Cadillac ranch i'm like fuck it I just left the door up like I wanted I want to go, you know, but I um i didn't go to the uh, the big Texan until the other night when after they got it fixed

01:20:20.90
Mike
Mm hmm. Ah.

01:20:30.60
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:20:36.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:20:37.26
Bill
But they were cool. The host was fine. This place is comfortable. Big Texan on ah another side note. Very cool. But I said in that note that I said it was classic.

01:20:42.57
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:44.45
Bill
It is. It's not old.

01:20:45.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:46.18
Bill
It's not dingy.

01:20:47.28
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:20:47.41
Bill
um But it's just it's cool. Very, very cool.

01:20:49.33
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

01:20:51.35
Bill
So.

01:20:51.54
Mike
i've I've been there a couple of times. I enjoyed it every time I've been there.

01:20:56.30
Bill
Yeah, it would have been, it would be nice. I mean, I didn't feel like sitting in the restaurant. I got carried out and came back here at eight.

01:21:00.99
Mike
Ah, right.

01:21:01.19
Bill
Cause I'm like, well, what's the point? You know, I'm just sitting there by myself and and whatever. I'm like, yeah I'll come back here and eat. And it was fine. Um, but when I went in there, I was trying to order on the, on the app cause it was saying it could take like 30 minutes.

01:21:12.95
Mike
Hmm.

01:21:13.23
Bill
So I'm like, this will be perfect. I'll get there. I'll take some pictures, kick around the inside of my food will be ready and I'll be fine. I couldn't get the, um, it wouldn't take my card on the app.

01:21:21.80
Mike
Mm.

01:21:22.58
Bill
And I'm like, it's telling me that my, that the card didn't match my address, which is wrong. Um, you know, because it, obviously my card, I know my address and it works fine.

01:21:30.71
Mike
Right, right.

01:21:31.79
Bill
Um, but I went in there and they're like, Oh yeah, I go over, you got to order, you know, carry out from the bar. I'm like, I don't know big deals and think about it. So again, one of these times when like we were talking about before, I think her last couple of episodes, I don't think about drinking, but I'm proud when I'm in the opportunity or had the opportunity to say no, you know,

01:21:43.16
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:21:48.15
Bill
So walk up, you know, all these people in there, again, the cowboy hats and this and that, the couple of people sitting in the bar, not a lot of people, but I mean, it's a, it's a nice full fucking bar area.

01:21:52.08
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:21:58.80
Bill
So I order it up and I said, no, what I want this and that. And he's like, I was like, okay, he goes, have maybe 15, 20 minutes at the most. I'm like, that's cool. And he's like, you want to drink while you're waiting? And I'm like, no, I'm good. He goes, you sure? He goes, I grab, grab your drink real quick.

01:22:10.42
Bill
I'm like, yeah.

01:22:10.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:11.00
Bill
I'm good. You know, that's all I said. And then he's like, you want tea or something like that, which I gave that guy credit because he got two nos and then he offered something non alcohol, even that he, even though he didn't say, do you want some fucking booze?

01:22:13.06
Mike
Right.

01:22:16.41
Mike
Aha.

01:22:23.48
Mike
Right, right.

01:22:24.31
Bill
You know, um, he was nice, you know, and I'm like, ah I'm good. I said, I'm going to go outside and take a couple of pictures. I said, I'm fine. I'm good.

01:22:29.82
Mike
Right.

01:22:30.31
Bill
But um I'm walking out of them like, yeah, I just said no. And again, again, so so silly. But, you know, it's just these little moments where, you know, it's just like, OK, yeah, I'm in the middle of fucking middle of I'm, you know, a middle of fucking nowhere, sort of nobody around, sort of.

01:22:39.10
Mike
Absolutely.

01:22:46.13
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

01:22:47.62
Bill
I could do whatever the fuck I want, sort of.

01:22:49.01
Mike
Oh, yeah. Right.

01:22:50.23
Bill
And and I got the opportunity and the ability to say fucking no, no.

01:22:54.47
Mike
Right. is No, thank you. I don't need that today.

01:22:59.45
Bill
Yeah. And I just, ah it was the guy was, he was nice and super nice about the whole thing, but I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. All right.

01:23:06.26
Mike
You play a little baseball for a minute.

01:23:06.50
Bill
So, um, actually, you know what? It was only one, one news story. All right. So have you ever heard of ah Michael Jordan?

01:23:15.54
Bill
Yeah, I know. But the the reason I say this is because yeah he did. Um, but did you hear about his son Marcus got arrested?

01:23:24.53
Mike
Night did not.

01:23:25.94
Bill
Okay. So Marcus Jordan, son of Michael Jordan arrested in central Florida for DUI and drug charges.

01:23:28.05
Mike
Uh-huh. Ah. hair ah

01:23:32.85
Bill
Okay. So the reason I started off with, do you know Michael Jordan? Cause apparently he was, this dumb fuck was name dropping.

01:23:37.93
Mike
Oh, of course.

01:23:41.02
Bill
but the cops apparently all through this stuff but um so Orange County Florida this was I don't even know when it was since February 5th when the uh whatever it doesn't matter uh Marcus Jordan son of basketball star Michael Jordan was arrested in book George County Jail Tuesday morning the 34 year old who owns a boutique shoe store down toward downtown Orlando didn't know that didn't care um is facing charge of DUI with property damage possession of cocaine and resisting an officer okay

01:23:41.81
Mike
Mhmm.

01:24:01.65
Mike
Hmm.

01:24:09.17
Mike
Partay. Yup.

01:24:10.13
Bill
Yeah, big time part A. Police say that they were traveling on Greenwood Road when they noticed the vehicle's headlights on the railroad tracks, eddie adding that the vehicle was not moving. According to the report, there was there was a train traveling ah toward the area approximately 10 minutes away.

01:24:29.13
Bill
okay So they made contact with him. First of all, he's in a fucking blue Lamborghini SUV.

01:24:35.11
Mike
Hmm.

01:24:36.10
Bill
He said he made a wrong turn, according to the report.

01:24:37.53
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:24:39.05
Bill
um cars

01:24:39.49
Mike
Clearly several.

01:24:41.97
Bill
yeah um

01:24:42.99
Mike
I think you made a few wrong turns.

01:24:45.70
Bill
when they When talking to ah to Jordan, an officer said that he had slurred speech, bloodshot eyes, smelled of alcohol, and didn't seem to know where he was.

01:24:54.71
Mike
Hmm.

01:24:58.76
Bill
Again, I don't mean to fucking laugh. but

01:25:00.95
Mike
No, no, no, no.

01:25:01.52
Bill
yeah

01:25:01.91
Mike
We're laughing because we recognize that.

01:25:02.13
Bill
yeah

01:25:05.12
Bill
game recognize game uh marcus and another passenger i didn't know he had a passenger in the car no initial details about the passenger blah blah blah um he had just come from a few venues down the road uh position railroad tracks hang on one second talking to oh god damn i'm sorry this thing flipped back is that there was an ad that popped up

01:25:06.77
Mike
Yeah, that's right.

01:25:21.33
Mike
Of course.

01:25:26.16
Bill
um During the arrest, the report said Marcus was not cooperative with the officers, including pulling away on his walk to the patrol car, um refusing to get in the vehicle, and sticking his leg out to prevent the officers from shutting the vehicle door.

01:25:32.50
Mike
Hmm.

01:25:39.50
Mike
Ah.

01:25:40.21
Bill
Officers said the alcohol smell in the vehicle became stronger as they transported Marcus to the DUI center. Dude, you fucking reek.

01:25:48.43
Mike
Right.

01:25:49.70
Bill
oh fucking a god damn i just kicked this article out okay i'm gonna go by memory because they talked about this on the on the boarding show i listened to so basically what he kept doing once he got in the car um first of all kept dropping michael jordan's name kind of like you know this i don't know if he actually said do you know who i am but it was sort of along those lines by the by the way i'm michael jordan's son do you know michael jordan

01:25:52.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:04.10
Mike
Of course. and so Of course. Uh-huh. Right.

01:26:14.16
Bill
and um And yeah, apparently there was the resisting the officer, I mean, I don't know if it was when they got to, I think it was when they got to the years the hospital, DUIs, whatever their DUI center is, it got belligerent with the officer.

01:26:24.47
Mike
Sure.

01:26:26.68
Bill
So like, was kind of trying to either fight them or do whatever. I just, all fucking mess. But yeah, they found cocaine in his car. um Obviously had the DUI.

01:26:35.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:26:35.46
Bill
Dry-dried and chopped Michael Jordan's name. Do you know who my fucking father is?

01:26:40.76
Mike
That's right.

01:26:43.26
Bill
yeah ah Jordan had is jordannet his trouble with... Did he ever get... I know he was a bit of a boozer at the time, wasn't he? Michael?

01:26:50.51
Mike
i I don't know.

01:26:50.82
Bill
No?

01:26:51.95
Mike
Never paid that much attention.

01:26:53.52
Bill
I watched some documentary, maybe um maybe I'm wrong about it, but I don't know. And again, as I was just, I was laughing my ass off because again, like like you just said, not laughing at him, um but just the, again, the the links that we that we will go to, you know?

01:27:08.10
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:08.32
Bill
And I mean, I suppose, you know, if I if i was in that position and i my my fucking dad was Michael Jordan, I mean, not that it would help, but I mean, I'd i'd probably throw it out there.

01:27:17.16
Mike
Right. He's probably been doing it his entire life. Why would he not do it that night?

01:27:22.73
Bill
yeah yeah And again, he's true yeah's driving around his fucking Lamborghini s SUV.

01:27:24.15
Mike
Morning.

01:27:27.99
Bill
I didn't even know they had Lamborghini SUVs.

01:27:29.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:31.12
Bill
But um I don't know. It just, once again, you know sounds like, ah again, trying to talk to the yeah talking to the guy. And he didn't seem to know where he was, which, well, he was sitting on railroad tracks.

01:27:41.88
Bill
So I'm guessing that, yeah, that that probably is ah and probably is a good point.

01:27:42.17
Mike
Right.

01:27:45.83
Bill
He probably

01:27:45.95
Mike
Speaking of groundhog day, don't drive on the railroad tracks. That's what I actually agree with.

01:27:53.04
Bill
Exactly. Oh, one, one last thing here. Um, you know, obviously, you know who Josh Brolin is, I'm i'm guessing, right?

01:27:59.61
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:27:59.69
Bill
The actor. Okay. You know, he's sober.

01:28:01.95
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:02.44
Bill
Okay. So, um, that was the, the, the next audio book I started listening to because, uh, he's been on a lot of podcasts. He was on, I think he was on Mark Marin. Was he on Marin?

01:28:10.61
Mike
Yeah. You see, I had about a year or so ago. Yeah. I listened.

01:28:12.79
Bill
Yeah, it was a good one.

01:28:13.29
Mike
I listened to that one.

01:28:15.09
Bill
And he's been on, he was on DAX.

01:28:15.49
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:16.97
Bill
He was on, God, I don't know. He's been on a few different ones and you know kind of talking up his book and stuff like that. Everyone's saying how good his book was.

01:28:24.33
Mike
Right.

01:28:24.42
Bill
So his book so far, if anyone's interested, it's um so far, and I'm only probably an hour into his into his book as five or six hours, whatever it is. Maybe I'm too in.

01:28:34.96
Bill
um I actually enjoyed his interviews more than I'm enjoying the book so far but it's just that he he's doing his book is almost it's read in this um jump forward jump back he'll be like June 1988 the goodies so they'll be like 2005 whatever oh old country or whatever for old but country something you know what I'm talking about

01:28:38.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:49.81
Mike
Right.

01:28:55.58
Mike
No country for old men.

01:28:56.70
Bill
There you go. No country for old men. But he so he's going back and forth with this stuff and he tells these short stories. He hasn't gotten into a deep heart. Apparently his mom's a fucking trip. That's a lot of the things he talked about.

01:29:06.29
Mike
Right.

01:29:07.40
Bill
um So interesting enough, but um it's just kind of funny that in obviously the Super Bowl is coming up in New Orleans, which had nothing to do with what he was talking about.

01:29:12.59
Mike
Mm

01:29:16.08
Bill
But he was talking about a time that he spent New Orleans, whatever, the probably some fucked up thing that happened to him.

01:29:16.15
Mike
hmm.

01:29:20.56
Bill
But he said, he goes, he goes, New Orleans. He goes, I love New Orleans. The way that city fucked me and the way I fucked it back.

01:29:29.83
Bill
And out of all the things he said, I'm like, I gotta remember that one I pulled over. um you know off to Shortly after that, I'm like, yeah, I took that one. yeah out The way the city fucked me and the way I fucked it back.

01:29:42.65
Bill
like I may need to use that line at some point.

01:29:43.47
Mike
Great.

01:29:46.02
Bill
So, all right, well, you know what? um I think, I don't know, it's up to you. Do you want to be done? Are we done?

01:29:51.58
Mike
I believe we're done.

01:29:53.67
Bill
All right, then I guess that's your turn.

01:29:55.70
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone.

01:29:58.78
Bill
I was going to say, a yeah we kind of did that a little bit abruptly this time.

01:29:59.50
Mike
Hey, I ain't ready for this.

01:30:05.14
Bill
i I don't know. Do I usually get more of a lead in or do you know?

01:30:07.09
Mike
Uh, usually a couple more seconds, but it's fine.

01:30:10.46
Bill
OK, anyhow, hang on.

01:30:10.60
Mike
It's all good.

01:30:11.83
Bill
Are you ready yet?

01:30:12.78
Mike
ah No, but I will do it anyway. um Right, ah so thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. As always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody this week and don't tell anybody you did it. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time till the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:30:42.22
Mike
Now it's time kids. It is that time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. Keep fucking off forever.

01:31:02.61
Bill
And you know what, for all you new listeners, if you wanna know where those last two bits came from, fucking go back and listen and figure it out.

01:31:09.44
Mike
Right.

01:31:10.17
Bill
As we we told the story plenty of times, you could probably go back within what, a year?

01:31:14.53
Mike
Oh, yeah.

01:31:14.56
Bill
Last year, yeah. But yeah, we talk about it enough where all those things came from. They had meaning, um but yeah, you're gonna have to go back and do a little bit of work. This is what you get as new listeners. Do some work and then report back.

01:31:25.62
Mike
a

01:31:27.10
Bill
Do some of our fucking work so so we can sit back and actually just talk and and enjoy ourselves more It's

01:31:33.69
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:31:36.84
Bill
all about us, right Yeah Yeah, exactly, but well, yeah, that's ah with the poker game I mean if it I'm gonna be up in Appleton babysitting for for Ali that night or i I would I would definitely I think I'd make a cruise out there and maybe come play some poker but

01:31:38.17
Mike
That's right. It's not about you. Go do the work. Do the footwork.

01:31:52.27
Mike
Well, it's it's probably gonna be the first of a few. Yeah, yeah, Chris chris and Angel and Mara, ah everybody has been on this show.

01:31:56.84
Bill
Right. Okay.

01:32:02.33
Mike
Again, go back and listen. um And yeah, they were like, you know, we need to get this going again. we need to We need to get together and hang out. So yeah, so we're we we're doing it.

01:32:14.63
Bill
Well, let's some in I haven't really I sort of have took a look at it at one point, but um I mean, I'm always out there for our anniversary week anyhow.

01:32:22.10
Mike
Right.

01:32:22.16
Bill
And I think it's the way it falls this week, if I remember correctly, it's going to be you know towards the end of April that we probably get together. But so worst case cit scenario, I know that's a couple of months off, but not too far.

01:32:31.38
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:32:33.15
Bill
So let's ah let's figure let's plan it for you know for that, like around our anniversary weekend, whatever we do that.

01:32:37.43
Mike
All right. Well, yeah, because I'm actually technically the anniversary weekend is Easter this year.

01:32:38.48
Bill
um

01:32:43.60
Bill
Is it really?

01:32:44.24
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Easter is the 20th. So it falls dead smack in the middle of our, our anniversary.

01:32:48.19
Bill
Yeah.

01:32:52.13
Mike
So, uh, yeah, you know, I'll probably end up coming to Kathy since my car's running. Uh,

01:32:58.05
Bill
Yeah, but i but then I think that I would be out in Cleveland the following week as we always wait until, yeah, until, right.

01:33:01.37
Mike
yeah, right. Tell we we're both there. Right. No fronts.

01:33:06.53
Bill
Right. Yeah. So I think it'd be, yeah, April. Oh yeah. That would be right.

01:33:09.79
Mike
26.

01:33:10.11
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. 26. Okay. Yeah. So we'll, yeah, last weekend of April, but, um, yeah, in March, I actually just, cause, uh, did I tell you Derek and Katie are moving in together?

01:33:20.46
Mike
No.

01:33:21.31
Bill
Oh, yeah, so this just came up.

01:33:22.05
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:22.46
Bill
ah Yeah, just came up recent.

01:33:23.17
Mike
Mazel tov.

01:33:23.97
Bill
Yeah, I thought the same thing. i'm like I meant to bring it up. but I forgot. Probably forgot last week. But so um long story short, Katie's dad, I guess, just bought a house.

01:33:34.71
Bill
He was living in a condo in Jackson, which is about 15 minutes north of Germantown. Not that far.

01:33:40.82
Mike
Okay.

01:33:41.46
Bill
um So still close.

01:33:41.52
Mike
Right.

01:33:42.46
Bill
Derek works there. Katie works in West Dallas. That gives her commute a little bit longer.

01:33:45.29
Mike
Hmm.

01:33:45.94
Bill
but um I guess they've been talking about trying to find a place. And because originally the thought was Derek wanted to buy a house, blah, blah, blah, do whatever.

01:33:53.37
Mike
Right.

01:33:54.02
Bill
um But I think they're, you know, they were looking for a place. So her dad is going to rent them his condo.

01:33:59.59
Mike
Cool.

01:33:59.87
Bill
And then they're moving in on March 15.

01:34:02.88
Mike
Hmm.

01:34:02.91
Bill
That's going to be their final move. They're kind of doing stuff slowly as they're yeah going up to it.

01:34:07.06
Mike
Right.

01:34:07.19
Bill
um But then the next weekend after that, Ollie, that's his birthday party. Ollie's birthday is the 15th, but they're doing his birthday party the next weekend, the 23rd, that's Sunday.

01:34:13.70
Mike
Right.

01:34:16.32
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:34:18.77
Bill
So I just booked a, yeah I found ah an Airbnb in West Bend, but it's on a little lake called Green Lake. um So I'm gonna be there for like 16 days. I did it from like a Saturday through like the following Monday.

01:34:31.28
Bill
So 16 days, I took off that Monday, the 24th.

01:34:34.24
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:34:34.78
Bill
um I was shit. Long story short, Wisconsin is really fucking expensive for Airbnbs. It doesn't fucking it matter. But I found cute little house on a lake. So yeah, in Wisconsin in fucking March.

01:34:44.14
Mike
Right.

01:34:46.80
Bill
Okay, but anyhow, it's it'll be nice. But so I got that book. So I'm going to be up there so I could be there when they move and Ali's birthday and blah, blah, blah. But

01:34:55.07
Mike
Nice.

01:34:56.02
Bill
Yeah, but the my point there was that that's the only thing I got planned. And I i don't know. I got to get my, obviously, as we were talking about, kind of get my money settled in over the next couple of months.

01:35:04.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:05.53
Bill
But I mean, kick it out to to Cleveland. I mean, I still plan on doing that, obviously, for the anniversary and figuring out who who knows.

01:35:09.38
Mike
Yep.

01:35:11.17
Bill
I don't know. If I start making a ton of money, i'll be yeah maybe I'll be rich by by April. and And none of it will fucking matter.

01:35:17.91
Mike
Right.

01:35:19.89
Bill
Just doesn't matter. I get a lot of money now. yeah Wish, wait, wish in one hand, shit the other.

01:35:22.17
Mike
Right.

01:35:24.60
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah.

01:35:26.47
Bill
Okay. There we go. All right. But anyhow.

01:35:28.63
Mike
We're all back to even.

01:35:31.12
Bill
Exactly. like Okay. Well, you know what? and On that note, I love you.

01:35:34.43
Mike
isn't I love you too.

01:35:34.77
Bill
I love you, brother. We'll talk soon.

01:35:38.17
Mike
We will.

01:35:38.87
Bill
All righty. Bye.

01:35:40.75
Mike
bye