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March 1, 2025
SoberNotMature - Episode 158 (Third Anniversary Spectacular - S.O.S.)
Yes, it's the Third Anniversary Spectacular and it is the same old "stuff," different day.
Mike started off with his reading and it was about learning, keeping an open mind and freedom. Things that we cherish today, but had no clue about in our drinking days. It was a good conversation.
We chatted about our the 3 years that we have been doing this podcast and some of the changes along the way. We also received a gift from a listener and we gave him a well deserved shout out.
Then it was H.A.L.T., more about atheism, the grandson, ailments, our actions while out in the world, water main breaks and some rock 'n' roll.
And Mike had a nice story about a guy that led at his home group. The person is practicing these principles and it's a great thing to see.
Enjoy the episode.
Visit us
Store www.sobernotmatureshop.com
Transcript
00:00:01.59
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And um you know what? I don't want to start off on a negative note, but I think i'm going to. OK, you ready?
00:00:13.78
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:15.33
Bill
Let me silly put it this way. I don't like to start off on a negative note, but um I think we need to fire our social media manager. Just so you know, just so you know, um our podcast anniversary was yesterday on the 27th.
00:00:22.35
Mike
Yeah, well.
00:00:28.33
Mike
yeah
00:00:28.70
Bill
And the the social media manager missed it, completely fucking missed it, and then had the fucking balls to just post it this morning as if nothing nothing happened.
00:00:36.63
Mike
yeah ah well
00:00:38.36
Bill
You know?
00:00:39.01
Mike
All right, well, you know, I shared it this morning like nothing fucking happened, so...
00:00:44.58
Bill
Yeah, I know.
00:00:45.10
Mike
yeah
00:00:45.34
Bill
I know.
00:00:45.95
Mike
ha
00:00:46.65
Bill
And you know what? nobody Nobody would fucking know between the 27th and 28th anyhow, but
00:00:51.08
Mike
Nobody would know on fucking this podcast.
00:00:51.35
Bill
but here's a Right. Well, here's here's a funny part. and If anyone has a guest, I'm the social media manager, if you want to call it that. But um so I thought about it.
00:01:00.11
Mike
Right.
00:01:02.36
Bill
We were talking about it last week's podcast. We've been talking about it for the weeks coming up.
00:01:04.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:01:06.03
Bill
Oh, you know, three years and this doing this thing's coming up. And, you know, usually I have a note, especially around our when our years come up, you know, kind of like regular anniversaries or our sober stuff.
00:01:14.65
Mike
Right.
00:01:15.98
Bill
But yeah. Last night and every, every night I sit down and I go through Facebook, including our sober, not mature page. I look through memories and then I see our, oh, two years the podcast. i'm like, are you fucking kidding me?
00:01:26.83
Mike
Yeah.
00:01:28.38
Bill
So then it's like, you know, it's 10 to nine and I'm fucking tired. And I'll tell you a little bit why I'm so goddamn tired.
00:01:31.93
Mike
yeah Because you're old?
00:01:34.19
Bill
And I'm like, yeah well, part of that, I had, I had a week of like three ailments, which I'll, I'll go into because they're kind of fun.
00:01:34.87
Mike
Okay.
00:01:41.74
Bill
um
00:01:41.65
Mike
okay
00:01:43.60
Bill
It's just they're stupid, but you know I think you'll get a laugh out of them. but and there's
00:01:46.60
Mike
Right.
00:01:47.74
Bill
There's kind of a sobriety thing in there too. so um But I'm like, ah fuck me. i'm like i don't i'm like I'll just look and I'll go on. Canva's the thing I use for all that stuff. i'm like I'll just search back and find it. Change the two to a three and Posted tomorrow, like again, like nothing happened.
00:02:03.07
Bill
Why it's I can't I can't find it.
00:02:03.48
Mike
right
00:02:04.91
Bill
It's either dug in because you could do multiple pages on different things you put together. And I'm like, I don't have the fucking patience to look for. as So I searched. I found that. I thought that post that I did this morning.
00:02:15.41
Bill
I'm like, OK, it's simple. It's kind of cool. You know, we haven't done anything like that.
00:02:17.50
Mike
Right?
00:02:18.49
Bill
So I'm like, fuck it. That took me. But it still took me like 20 minutes to put it together. um you know, because again, making sure everything lines up with the podcast things on there, the Apple, the Spotify, it's not hard, but just takes a minute, you know, to get everything lined up.
00:02:29.72
Mike
Right?
00:02:31.44
Bill
So I'm like, ah, fuck it. i just, but there we is. I just posted this morning. And then, then I'm like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to call myself out tonight because, because that's a, it's, I think,
00:02:40.44
Mike
that's what we're supposed to fucking do. Yeah.
00:02:42.80
Bill
Right. It's a program of honesty. That's why I figured it'd be kind of funny that, you know, yeah, this motherfucker just posted it, you know, this social media manager as if nothing happened, you know, so.
00:02:50.55
Mike
Right. that Well, you know, da clearly it doesn't matter because I fucking did. I just went, oh, cool. It's say all right. And I shared it. and Yeah, I had some people like it and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I didn't pay any fucking attention. I went, oh, that's cool. Moved on.
00:03:06.74
Bill
Yeah, I know. again, nobody would have, nobody would have noticed, but, uh, I mean, it's, it's kind of a big deal.
00:03:08.04
Mike
is right.
00:03:12.12
Bill
You know, we've been doing this shit for, for three years and maybe if we have, you know, seven minutes later on in the podcast, we can, I don't know, we can take a trip down memory lane if we feel like it.
00:03:12.59
Mike
it is right
00:03:20.59
Bill
If not, we'll just keep doing like, do it like we always fucking do. But, um,
00:03:23.94
Mike
right are we supposed well we're not supposed to dwell on that shit
00:03:27.65
Bill
Yeah, that's why I said memory lane, just not dwelling. This is kind of like looking at looking at past, ah I don't know, past happy moments or whatever.
00:03:33.81
Mike
okay yeah one or two hmm okay nice
00:03:33.95
Bill
we we've had We've had a couple. But um I do have actually a positive thing. So one of the guys that one of our new listeners that left a comment for us a couple of weeks ago was Tim M. um He's a guy with, I think, 20 some years, if not longer than that, of sobriety. He's in Maine.
00:03:51.40
Bill
um he actually bought us five coffees through buy me a coffee, which, um you know, we don't promote that anymore.
00:03:55.13
Mike
Oh.
00:03:57.51
Bill
We've told people don't give us, we don't need your money.
00:03:57.75
Mike
Right. Right.
00:03:59.81
Bill
We don't want your fucking money.
00:04:01.22
Mike
Well.
00:04:01.35
Bill
um But well, okay. Okay.
00:04:03.59
Mike
We want your money. We don't need your money.
00:04:04.75
Bill
hey Right. We're not going to we're not going to beg for it. That's why that's why I said, you know, before um if people if people want to dig for it, it's still on our website. If people want to go through the time and effort to find it and leave us some of the fine, you know, we appreciate it.
00:04:12.79
Mike
Yeah.
00:04:17.89
Mike
Sure.
00:04:18.10
Bill
So he left a note along with it and said it was five, which is twenty five dollars, by the way, um says, what else can I say?
00:04:22.79
Mike
Nice.
00:04:24.76
Bill
You guys are fucking great. um Thanks for the company on my fucking drive.
00:04:29.89
Mike
nice yes it's like 20 bucks right yes nice actually buy a coffee
00:04:30.26
Bill
yeah So, so thank you, Tim. So, you know, I just thought about this. I was thinking, you know, tonight's podcast is sponsored by Tim from Maine, but no, you know what? Guess how much Zencaster costs every month?
00:04:41.37
Bill
20 bucks. Okay. So this month is now sponsored by Tim from Maine and yeah, you know, get a little bit left over to do something, you know i don't know, five bucks to, you know, spend on whoever, I don't know.
00:04:56.00
Bill
Yeah, actually. Yeah, to actually buy a coffee. There we go.
00:04:59.98
Mike
Right.
00:05:00.15
Bill
But the no, seriously, yeah and we've been very clear about this. We don't. I post the thing now that says that support, you know, and whatever it's usually, you know, it's buy merchandise. ah All we want people get on there, rate us, give us a nice rating, a five star, give us, leave us a comment.
00:05:09.99
Mike
Right.
00:05:13.13
Mike
he
00:05:14.98
Bill
That means more to us than any money in seriously, like, I'm. We don't need your money. We don't. we're we're We're in a position we wouldn't do this if we didn't have the money to do it.
00:05:20.15
Mike
Right.
00:05:23.94
Bill
We're not going to get out there. And I'll just say it like all these other fucking podcasts and beg for your money.
00:05:27.32
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:05:29.01
Bill
Oh, this is what keeps us on the air. Fuck you.
00:05:32.06
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:05:33.33
Bill
And you know what?
00:05:33.68
Mike
Right.
00:05:34.25
Bill
These are friends of ours too. People that we've had on here, these are friends of ours to do these podcasts.
00:05:35.49
Mike
Yes. bill
00:05:38.21
Bill
You know what? Fuck you too. Because you don't, I know you guys, I know what you guys do. You don't need money.
00:05:42.48
Mike
ah huh
00:05:43.46
Bill
It doesn't, that's not what, yes. You want to buy a new microphone? Go buy a new fucking microphone. You know?
00:05:47.93
Mike
right
00:05:49.79
Bill
Don't beg for goddamn money on the, on the goddamn podcast. So anyhow, that's, that's my rant on that. But Tim, Tim, seriously, thank you. um Not only for the comments and and all that stuff, he follows us on Facebook and has been reacting and liking all of our posts and stuff like that.
00:05:56.61
Mike
yes
00:06:03.07
Bill
So, you know what? He might, he might actually, yeah he might actually turn out to be the new Gary because we, I'm just wondering if Gary's actually listening. Maybe we can call Gary out.
00:06:12.32
Mike
Right.
00:06:14.77
Bill
I feel kind of afraid for a minute because, you know, it's Gary.
00:06:18.24
Mike
Right.
00:06:19.44
Bill
But now we can't call Gary out too much. He, he and John from sober speak, you know, did a nice thing. And um the two of them are the reason why we have all these extra listeners.
00:06:24.42
Mike
Absolutely.
00:06:27.42
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:06:27.56
Bill
So, so there.
00:06:29.06
Mike
Right. third We cannot replace Gary. we just we We're adding to it.
00:06:33.71
Bill
Right. Yeah, we could we could poke Gary a little bit and say, hey, dude, we haven't heard from you in a while, but thank you for, you know, speaking about us on Sober Speak because that that helped quite a bit.
00:06:35.93
Mike
Sure. Sure.
00:06:40.90
Mike
Yes.
00:06:41.73
Bill
So, OK, so those are my.
00:06:42.41
Mike
Yes.
00:06:43.71
Bill
yeah But yeah, I had I had a week of ailments, which I'll talk about. I was ba babysitting for my grandson. I got a couple of things about that last from last weekend.
00:06:52.57
Mike
Cool.
00:06:52.86
Bill
Um, one news story, this kind of a winter ish thing. And, uh, other than that, just normal shit.
00:06:56.52
Mike
Mm
00:06:57.34
Bill
I'm up to, I just slipped into a fourth page of printing out things. I, we, you could tell we had a guest last week and thank you again, Alex, um, for, for coming on.
00:07:04.04
Mike
hmm. Yep.
00:07:07.24
Bill
Um, not only a great episode, we've gotten some nice comments about it. Um, I listened to the episode. It was, it was very natural conversation between the three of us.
00:07:15.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:07:16.01
Bill
Not that we haven't had that with other people,
00:07:17.89
Mike
Sure.
00:07:18.30
Bill
Um, but I mean, we don't know him and didn't know him from Adam had no idea.
00:07:22.86
Mike
Yeah.
00:07:23.34
Bill
Um, you know what it was coming into it. Um, it was, it was a great conversation. so if anyone hasn't listened, you know, to last week's episode, do that.
00:07:32.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:07:32.62
Bill
I make sure you follow Alex on Instagram, check out his websites, his book, all the different things he's doing. He's a, he's a young kid. He's 30 years old. He's got his whole life ahead of him and he's doing a lot.
00:07:40.84
Mike
Right.
00:07:42.93
Bill
Yeah. Not like us, you know, half, half fucking dead, but,
00:07:43.78
Mike
Right. yeah
00:07:45.93
Bill
No, half, three quarters, seven eighths.
00:07:48.43
Mike
Three quarters, thank you. Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:07:52.28
Bill
How close could we get that margin? But no, seriously, Alex was a great guest. And, you know, so obviously we will want to help, ah you know, promote him and support him in any way possible. So, all right.
00:08:00.68
Mike
yes
00:08:02.63
Bill
But that was it. That was a little bit of a rant, little bit of a good stuff, some stuff and whatever. And yes, we've been on this, doing this fucking thing for three years out there.
00:08:10.43
Mike
yes
00:08:13.35
Bill
And, you know, going back to two years ago, I think we started doing a reading every episode. So I think think we're going to continue that into season seven of the year four.
00:08:19.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:08:22.43
Mike
Right.
00:08:23.76
Bill
If you're ready.
00:08:23.96
Mike
you're yeah i Yeah, I guess.
00:08:24.12
Bill
I mean, i don't know. yeah Well, we are. We're into our fourth year. Remember? Exactly.
00:08:28.73
Mike
Right. Yeah, I know. Yes, we are. we that We are, what, eight minutes, eight and a half minutes into our fourth year.
00:08:36.31
Bill
Exactly.
00:08:37.08
Mike
a All right. oh Yeah, i had a couple of pretty decent ones this week, but I'm pretty sure I'd done them before.
00:08:48.13
Mike
um And I don't think I've done this one, so I didn't read this this morning. But um it's February Leap Day. Right. Yeah.
00:08:57.03
Bill
Nice.
00:08:57.70
Mike
right yeah So i was like, you know what? I grabbed it and i I looked it over and I went, oh, hell, that ain't bad. We'll do that one. So let's do that one.
00:09:05.90
Bill
Cool.
00:09:07.80
Mike
February 29th. Only the educated are free. Epictetus, I believe, a Greek philosopher. I did look that much up.
00:09:18.24
Mike
All right. ah Every one of us gets many chances to continue learning in our lives. We miss many of those chances because we just don't see them.
00:09:29.93
Mike
It's very easy to stop learning. We get into habits of doing things the same old way. We stop reading about science or literature or geography or politics.
00:09:41.79
Mike
We don't know what's going on in our community. We even eat the same kinds of foods every day. When we stick with what we already know, we stop growing.
00:09:53.54
Mike
Our world and our life get very small. We get stuck. We get left behind. We give up our power to be free. When we were using, we couldn't be free.
00:10:06.20
Mike
Freedom takes energy, and all of our energy went into feeding our addiction. Now that we are sober, we have energy to pay attention and to learn. We can break out of the little box we lived in.
00:10:19.61
Mike
We can make free choices. Prayer for the day. Higher power, help me to be free today. i will pay attention to new things you are trying to teach me so I can make new choices.
00:10:33.60
Mike
Today's action. Ah, those pesky actions. I will list three ways i could be more free if I learn something new. I will talk with my sponsor about what it takes to really be free.
00:10:48.05
Bill
All right. Um, I, I didn't read that, you know, specifically didn't read the leap day ones this year because I, when I was talking about it, the last, the last time you and I were talking about it, you're like, no, I don't, I don't read those.
00:10:55.01
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. No.
00:10:58.66
Bill
i odd leap years because i'm like ah okay well fuck it I'm not read them. And I didn't, you know,
00:11:04.06
Mike
I was wondering, actually, this morning when I was doing it I saw it there.
00:11:04.25
Bill
but dumb
00:11:07.34
Mike
I was like, I wonder if he read it this morning or not.
00:11:09.57
Bill
but I didn't. I did. Cause I'm like, you know what?
00:11:10.68
Mike
Good.
00:11:11.53
Bill
I'm just, I'm going to stick with the process. You know, I'm just going to stick there.
00:11:13.81
Mike
Yeah, right.
00:11:15.27
Bill
But, um, so that the last part was, uh, what was the three things about being whatever, what was that again?
00:11:19.41
Mike
Yeah, list three ways you could be more free if I learn something new.
00:11:25.00
Bill
Well, and I mean, the entire reading was about obviously opening up and growing and learning and all those sort of things.
00:11:28.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:11:30.57
Bill
Do you think, I mean, right off the top of your head is there, I mean, learning is great, obviously. I think we can agree on that part of it.
00:11:35.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:11:37.24
Bill
But can you think of, I mean, that knowledge is power, I've heard.
00:11:38.04
Mike
Knowledge is good.
00:11:41.39
Bill
Yeah.
00:11:41.57
Mike
Well, no, that's the the inscription on the Faber statue and ah in Animal House.
00:11:47.92
Bill
Oh, ah
00:11:48.85
Mike
Knowledge is good.
00:11:51.37
Bill
see I never would have, I never would have caught that, but now I, now I have more knowledge. So thank you.
00:11:55.01
Mike
Right, there you go.
00:11:56.65
Bill
But um can you think of, i mean, like ah one thing, three things, whatever it is based on that, that, I mean, if you learn something new that would make you more free or, I mean, is that, I don't know.
00:12:04.69
Mike
Um, right. Well, putting it that way, i don't know what I don't know. So, ah i yeah um, yeah, clearly, yes.
00:12:10.94
Bill
Right.
00:12:15.16
Mike
If I learned something new, I would be more free. Um, you know, I, I, I like this one cause it was, yeah, it's, it's, I don't know. Um, I mean, we talk about routine and habits and stuff and all that and, uh, clearly very important.
00:12:32.06
Mike
And, um, but, you know, I certainly can get stuck in a rut. I can certainly go, well, this shit's working. i don't need to do anything different.
00:12:43.37
Bill
Right.
00:12:43.63
Mike
Um, and sometimes I do that that way. Um, ah but yeah, I mean, you know, I, I, freedom, we talk about it on here enough, um, is very important to me.
00:12:56.54
Mike
I, I'm, supremely grateful for the freedoms that I have today. And being a good addict and alcoholic, I always want more. um so so yes, you know, um like I said, I didn't read that this morning. I haven't read it since last year.
00:13:16.17
Mike
um so ah you know, well, last year, tomorrow.
00:13:25.50
Bill
Right.
00:13:26.16
Mike
Right.
00:13:26.34
Bill
it
00:13:27.52
Mike
it
00:13:28.65
Bill
Which as of tomorrow is going to be yesterday.
00:13:30.79
Mike
Exactly.
00:13:31.83
Bill
yeah
00:13:31.95
Mike
Or two days from then. of yeah yeah see I don't know a lot of shit. ah
00:13:39.73
Bill
yeah But you're free. That's all that matters.
00:13:42.46
Mike
I am.
00:13:42.90
Bill
Right.
00:13:43.26
Mike
Well, yes, but I, again, would like to be more free.
00:13:47.36
Bill
Right.
00:13:48.10
Mike
Freer. um Yeah. You know, ah so, you know, being open to new concepts is also very important. Yeah. you know, it's, it's, it's tough, man. Cause I mean, at this point and in my sobriety and in, in all of that, I mean, I, you know, I never want to say I've got this thing down and I've got it handled and all that stuff, but you know, I got a lot of this shit down and I've got a lot of this shit handled.
00:14:18.41
Bill
Right.
00:14:18.47
Mike
Um, and, and I can become complacent with that. Um, you know Thankfully today, I'm not all squirrely because I've done what I'm supposed to do and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. But, know...
00:14:31.59
Mike
got to be, got to be mindful of that. And um yes, I, you know, I do keep my mind open and, and, and continue to look for new things.
00:14:43.09
Mike
You know, it's, yeah, you know, almost 15 years into this, it's, it would be nice. I love when I learn something new. I love when I get those aha moments, you know, when, oh, that's, that's what this means, you know, and it still happens, not as often as it did.
00:14:55.57
Bill
Right.
00:14:59.49
Mike
you know, 90 days or something, because that was just pop, up pop pop, pop, constant. ah And I'm kind of grateful that it's not pop, pop, pop, constant anymore either.
00:15:10.67
Mike
um i don't know. I'm getting fucking old, man. i don't know if I can handle all that new information anymore.
00:15:17.65
Bill
Might have a fucking stroke for all you know.
00:15:19.16
Mike
like it It's very possible.
00:15:19.92
Bill
Fucking
00:15:22.09
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:15:24.68
Bill
short circuit in there or something. But, you know, the the thing of it is, and it actually when I asked the question, reminded me, because we've had that that's the same conversation about different things, you know, where and you said the same thing, and I agree with you.
00:15:26.57
Mike
Yeah.
00:15:36.45
Bill
I mean, I don't know what I don't know. You know, it's ah you know could you learn more?
00:15:38.62
Mike
Right.
00:15:39.73
Bill
Well, i I don't know what I don't know. I don't know what I need to learn. Yeah. Do I need to learn more things? Of course. Do I need to keep my mind open?
00:15:46.15
Mike
Yep.
00:15:47.00
Bill
Absolutely.
00:15:48.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:15:48.21
Bill
And that is one thing that, and I think we've wrapped up every one of these past conversations with that but that statement or that mindset is that worst case scenario, both of us are willing, which is the key, to have an open mind about new shit.
00:15:55.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:15:58.88
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:16:02.71
Mike
Right.
00:16:02.85
Bill
you know um And you know talk about, again, you know this podcast and three years ago and the things that we've learned you know from people and the things that that I've learned from being on on Instagram or on all these these sober accounts and stuff like that.
00:16:17.31
Bill
you know Just off the like we were talking about with but Alex and then plenty of other episodes. Again, gray area drinking, sober curious, alcohol free.
00:16:21.65
Mike
Sure.
00:16:24.87
Bill
I had no fucking idea. i mean, they seem elementary, you know but I'm like, I never heard of them.
00:16:27.53
Mike
Right. be Sure.
00:16:30.97
Bill
you know So Learning and realizing and um being exposed to those sort of things, it it is, it's kind of opening my mind. When I moved back to Wisconsin, you know, however many years ago now, you know, just being in and basically lead meetings all the time in Cleveland and then going to these discussion meetings, um it opened up all these new doors in my, you know, in my sobriety because I'm like, like, holy fuck, I get to hear
00:16:48.47
Mike
Right.
00:16:55.79
Bill
you know, 14 different opinions rather than just one, you know, I don't just to get to hear about, you know, these drunkologues in this little bit of whatever, and maybe even a great lead.
00:16:58.34
Mike
Right.
00:17:04.08
Bill
I'm like, I get to hear we, we have a, this open discussion. I'm like, this is fucking wild, you know?
00:17:08.21
Mike
Right.
00:17:08.84
Bill
And then, then it was a, it was a quest. um I wanted to read something. I wanted to be involved. I'm like, that's my new goal. I want to be involved in every one of these things. I don't just want to sit on my ass. I want to get out there.
00:17:19.11
Bill
and I want to be part of, you know?
00:17:20.64
Mike
Right. Absolutely.
00:17:21.86
Bill
You know, and it was great, you know, and and I guess all of that, because, you know, the same thing is that, um you know, you mentioned it already and we talk about it enough, the routine thing. Yes, there's there's certain things that that we will not compromise on. If somebody's like, um I've got a new way for you, you don't need to do your readings anymore.
00:17:40.43
Bill
You got to do this in the morning and like, fuck you.
00:17:40.43
Mike
Heh.
00:17:42.77
Bill
You know, I'm I'm not doing that, you know.
00:17:43.21
Mike
Right, right, right. why right i'm not to kind of We were talking about Gary. you know We're not taking anything away. we can add to it.
00:17:51.92
Bill
Right.
00:17:52.13
Mike
We have Gary and Tim.
00:17:52.36
Bill
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:53.45
Mike
Yes, right.
00:17:55.86
Bill
Exactly.
00:17:56.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:17:56.96
Bill
Yeah. Gary's part of our routine. Now Tim's going to be part of our routine.
00:17:58.58
Mike
yes right
00:18:00.66
Bill
But yeah, I mean, I'm not going to I'm not going to change, you know, things like that, that there are certain core things that, you know, obviously definitely work, um you know, but, but yeah, being open to again, these, these aha moments and it is, I mean, we've had, them I know I've had them on here, you know, again, in the last few years,
00:18:14.91
Mike
Right?
00:18:17.10
Bill
You know, you talk about something, we end up on this subject and I'm like, Jesus Christ, I never knew that before. Never heard that before.
00:18:22.70
Mike
Right?
00:18:22.99
Bill
It could be something filthy or it could be something helpful.
00:18:23.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:18:25.58
Bill
You know, hold
00:18:25.57
Mike
Right? well
00:18:27.31
Bill
but
00:18:27.48
Mike
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
00:18:29.66
Bill
yeah, that's a that's a good point. Something filthy could definitely be helpful. But yeah.
00:18:33.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:18:34.69
Bill
But yeah, the other thing, though, that I that I wrote down, which I thought was kind of interesting the way just I remember exactly the how it was worded, but it just said freedom. I wrote down freedom takes energy.
00:18:44.95
Bill
I think that was in in a sentence, which it is true.
00:18:45.31
Mike
Right. any
00:18:48.30
Bill
I mean, um you know, I mean, freedom, it's work, right?
00:18:48.94
Mike
Right.
00:18:51.94
Mike
Absolutely.
00:18:54.85
Bill
I mean, all of this shit is work, but um yeah, I mean, freedom, I don't know. I mean, it's not that freedom doesn't come to us. You know, freedom can come to us. We've got all these things in front of us, but um you know, we still, somebody hands us a box, ah a box of cake mix and we still gotta, we still gotta follow directions and and do the work and blah, blah, blah.
00:19:08.27
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:19:10.83
Bill
Right.
00:19:11.02
Mike
Freedom ain't free, man.
00:19:15.15
Bill
ah Right.
00:19:16.05
Mike
right
00:19:18.04
Bill
But, um, that's like the first thing I, one of the first things I wrote down was that it's easy to stop learning. And yeah, I mean, I mean, I, I think that you and I have been very clear about the fact that, uh, I mean, we're, we're both, you know, relatively speaking in certain circumstances, it's very easy for ah either one of us to just be fucking lazy. Right.
00:19:35.27
Bill
Yeah.
00:19:35.55
Mike
right oh chi yeah
00:19:38.21
Bill
yeah
00:19:39.01
Mike
Absolutely. Falling off a log, man. Totally easy. You know, and it I prefer it. but um ah But again, i know that I can't be when it comes to this.
00:19:46.45
Bill
Right.
00:19:50.13
Mike
You know, there there's work involved and I have to do it. Yes, I would i' love to just, you know, lay here and have it all come to me. all But that didn't work before. It's probably not going to work now.
00:20:03.92
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, and that's the other thing I wrote down was obviously stop growing. And I think that was talking about what we were using and stuff like that. And um yeah, I mean, I don't, but same thing.
00:20:10.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:20:13.63
Bill
I mean, you already said it, but um you know, we're not done. We're not recovered. We're not fixed. We're not, you know, whatever the case is and whatever, even if it's just, you know, minor growth, you know, just slowly moving forward, you know, us being little turtles and, you know, moving forward.
00:20:23.04
Mike
Yeah.
00:20:26.39
Bill
I mean, there's, there's growth i mean there's growth in years and knowledge and uh you know maybe comfort and um i don't know anything like that there's a does there i i don't know i mean there's a huge difference between the individuals we are now clearly from when you know like you said 90 days and that sort of thing but even take you know five years back or 10 years back or whatever the case is you know hopefully there's a there's ah
00:20:30.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:20:41.54
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.
00:20:47.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:20:50.65
Bill
ah difference. you know There's a calm. There's got to be it just more settling into you know all of this stuff being part of you know what we do every day rather than um like you said, we don't have work that hard but it still still is work.
00:20:54.47
Mike
Yeah.
00:21:01.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:21:01.81
Bill
Am I thinking about that the right way?
00:21:01.95
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, right. and And I mean, you know, and and hopefully a little more wisdom, a little more understanding, you know, the the knowledge gets a little deeper than just, you know, yes, I understand this part.
00:21:15.67
Mike
Guess what? I understand it a little more now because of life experiences and and and doing it over and over and and having it become part of my life.
00:21:18.43
Bill
Right.
00:21:24.98
Mike
Yeah. it It gets deeper. gets, you know, hopefully a little more understanding. You know, um again, some of this shit still doesn't make sense to me and probably never will. And I'm okay with that.
00:21:37.14
Bill
Right.
00:21:37.20
Mike
um But yeah, now hopefully I'm learning a little more and then having a little more, like I said, understanding is the best way to put it.
00:21:47.20
Bill
Right. And I don't, you know, i mean, for the most part too, i you know, I just thought about being, being less rattled by, i mean, I, still get rattled by life and I still have my fear moments.
00:21:55.52
Mike
Sure.
00:21:56.55
Bill
And, you know, again, that's talk about aha moments, you know, figuring that all of my fucking problems are fear based, which I still don't like.
00:21:58.13
Mike
yeah
00:22:02.96
Mike
Right.
00:22:03.88
Bill
I don't, I don't like that. It bothers me. You know, I'm like, I, I don't, I don't want to accept that. I have to, but I don't, I don't, I want to say I reject that. That's not true.
00:22:12.62
Mike
Right. Right. Again, yeah, we can't. We can't wholeheartedly reject the truth.
00:22:16.43
Bill
Right.
00:22:19.10
Mike
We tried that before, too.
00:22:19.30
Bill
Right.
00:22:20.50
Mike
Didn't fucking work. Right.
00:22:22.06
Bill
Well, and and guess why I want to reject it? Because I'm afraid of it. you know
00:22:25.37
Mike
Right.
00:22:26.40
Bill
but it's I want to reject the the fact that I've run by fear, but it's because I'm afraid of it. you know It's just, yeah but damn it, damn it.
00:22:30.96
Mike
Yeah, exactly. And then I'm lazy and I don't want to fucking do anything about it.
00:22:37.01
Bill
but if i don't i'm But if I don't, I'm afraid what i'm afraid what's going to happen.
00:22:37.29
Mike
who Right. What's going to happen then? Oh, shit.
00:22:43.35
Bill
yeah everything Everything's fucking fear-based. But no, I mean, actually, that that was ah that was a great reading. I mean, it it really was.
00:22:49.04
Mike
Yeah.
00:22:49.87
Bill
And I i remember the... that ah we We must have talked about that last year because the ah eating the same foods, getting in the habit, which I still do the same thing.
00:22:58.41
Mike
Right.
00:23:00.14
Bill
I mean, i vary you know what i what I eat, relatively speaking, on a daily basis. But I have. I like green beans and I like to have rice or something like that with a meal. And I just have a different, you know, it's a hamburger, it's a meat, it's some sort of chicken or pork or ribs or whatever.
00:23:12.82
Mike
Right.
00:23:14.17
Bill
Yeah. and I mix that up, but for the most part, yeah, I do. I eat the same shit because, I don't know, I mean, I eat relatively healthy.
00:23:18.33
Mike
Yeah.
00:23:20.98
Bill
I could go out and eat fucking garbage-y food and eat all different all the time, but I don't want to spend, I'm too fucking cheap to do that.
00:23:24.18
Mike
the
00:23:26.74
Bill
i don't want to i don't want to eat all that fucking garbage either, so...
00:23:27.17
Mike
Right. Exactly. You know, and we're still going to have pizza every Friday night. We don't care.
00:23:34.21
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, I forgot to, forgot to tell you this last week. Well, I mean, obviously we had Alex on, but I thought about it again tonight. So last week when I got my pizza and I, you know, I think most people who listen on here know, know we do it, but you know, both Mike and I go to the, go to Domino's.
00:23:49.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:23:51.84
Bill
He goes to the same one now for how long, six years, seven, eight years.
00:23:54.66
Mike
Well, no, since I moved into the house, so about five and a half.
00:23:59.36
Bill
Okay. I wasn't,
00:23:59.74
Mike
It'll be six years in July.
00:24:01.61
Bill
I didn't know if you went to that before you actually moved into the house, but, uh, okay.
00:24:04.41
Mike
Nope.
00:24:05.73
Bill
So a long time you've gone to the same one and there's a guy, you know, there. So, I mean, obviously they know you ah all the time and, um, different places I've been, they, they know me.
00:24:11.19
Mike
Yep.
00:24:13.99
Bill
It was just funny though, because, you know, we, we talk about this because both of us used to, you know, kind of circulate these grocery stores and liquor stores. So we weren't going to the same place every day or two, you know, i have a handful of, um,
00:24:23.46
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
00:24:27.05
Bill
Which a lot of people do that. I mean, I've heard it plenty of other stories. But so this one in Valparaiso that I go to, um literally the last time I would have went there would have been December 27th because I think I left on December 28th.
00:24:30.36
Mike
Sure.
00:24:42.11
Mike
Right.
00:24:42.35
Bill
So I walk in there last Friday. So I mean, literally it's it's two months later, you know.
00:24:46.58
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:24:47.32
Bill
And I walk in and one of the, you know, one of the ladies that is normally there, I walk up to the counter and she's like, Bill, right? I'll grab your pizza. And I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ. I haven't even been there in two months, you know, and not only remembered me by my face, knew my fucking name.
00:24:57.59
Mike
Right. Right.
00:25:02.51
Mike
Yeah.
00:25:02.67
Bill
And still I go back to the point of maybe these people won't know that I'm in here.
00:25:06.27
Mike
a ha you
00:25:06.84
Bill
Yeah. two months I was gone, two fucking months, you know? So like, Jesus Christ, it just, it just, it just made me laugh. Just the insanity, you know, the insanity that we think, yeah, there we go.
00:25:15.99
Mike
Yeah. The delusions.
00:25:18.82
Bill
Delusions that we're like, we're going to mix it up. So people don't think we're buying all this booze all the time. Yeah.
00:25:23.86
Mike
Right.
00:25:26.67
Bill
Fucking stupid. So anyhow, speaking of things that are not stupid, the reading, any other, anything else on that or any other, any other thoughts or,
00:25:31.28
Mike
Yes.
00:25:34.36
Mike
I think we covered it pretty well.
00:25:37.10
Bill
Okay, well, I'm going to say it again. i liked it. well'll i guess maybe we'll talk about that if we're around in another, what three years when it actually comes around again.
00:25:40.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:25:43.21
Mike
Sure.
00:25:46.15
Bill
Or maybe next year you'll be like, I don't think I read this before, so let's read it again.
00:25:51.22
Mike
Very possible.
00:25:53.36
Bill
Which is fine. I mean, nobody's going to fucking know. Same thing as nobody knew about our goddamn podcast anniversary, so.
00:25:58.54
Mike
Right, including us.
00:26:00.08
Bill
Yeah, exactly. All right. So um this I just heard on a on a podcast a couple of days ago when we've talked about the whole halt thing, hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
00:26:11.60
Mike
Right?
00:26:11.93
Bill
And for anyone who doesn't know that, those are the things that as as people in recovery, they teach us this at least in 12-step programs that those are the things to watch out for because they could cause you if you're if you're hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
00:26:18.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:26:24.21
Bill
What is it? Two out of the four could be problematic. Definitely more than that.
00:26:27.19
Mike
Right?
00:26:27.87
Bill
Okay. Okay. Um, but the, the thing of it is, and, uh, well, could cause us to drink or go back to old behaviors and blah, blah, blah.
00:26:34.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:26:35.92
Bill
Um, I heard somebody say it on a podcast the other day, and I almost forgot to write it down and it popped into my head yesterday. Somebody referred to those as triggers. So hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
00:26:47.23
Bill
Do you consider those to be triggers or just, I, I never heard anyone
00:26:51.58
Mike
Well, we've had the trigger discussion before. Right.
00:26:55.02
Bill
Right. And that's why, that's why i wanted to, I wanted to talk about it.
00:26:55.99
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:58.20
Bill
Cause I mean, you and I don't, don't believe in triggers. So, I mean, I, I understand that I believe in that concept, the whole thing, but I mean, do you, do you look at them like triggers or?
00:27:00.94
Mike
right
00:27:04.52
Mike
the yeah
00:27:08.15
Mike
Well, no, i don't look at anything as a trigger.
00:27:09.22
Bill
Okay. Mm-hmm.
00:27:11.29
Mike
Right. Triggers are just another word for excuses. um Right. i Right. I look at the halt thing as more of ah just, ah you know, warnings of, you know, you're going to start acting like an asshole.
00:27:26.24
Mike
It's not even so much, you know, ah drinking or using because that's not really a thing anymore. Right.
00:27:32.67
Bill
Right.
00:27:32.68
Mike
Um, so, you know, but I mean, it is, but, um, no, it's just, going to start acting like an asshole. I'm fucking hungry. I'm tired. ah You know, don't allow those, to become excuses to act like an asshole, whether that asshole behavior is being shitty to someone or picking up a drink or a drug. It's all the same, you know, being a shitty person.
00:27:55.84
Mike
all Yeah. So look out for those things. Don't let yourself get too hungry, too angry, too lonely, too tired. I'll never be too lonely. Yeah.
00:28:09.01
Bill
I'm sorry.
00:28:10.01
Mike
But that's just me. I understand. i have ah ah you know I'm not special. I'm not different. I'm not unique. But um I do have little peccadillos.
00:28:19.89
Bill
yeah
00:28:20.63
Mike
And one of them is can never be too lonely because I like being by myself.
00:28:25.78
Bill
yeah Yeah, and we we've talked about that. We talked about the difference between, you know, being alone and being lonely. And I think both of us have have said that, you know, yeah, the the the concept of being lonely is it's been a long I can't.
00:28:32.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:28:40.87
Bill
It's probably been since like Dawn and I split up that that I was lonely.
00:28:43.66
Mike
Right.
00:28:44.81
Bill
And that was but again, I was in the depths of my, you know, my alcoholism and raging, whatever.
00:28:45.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:28:48.81
Mike
Right.
00:28:50.09
Bill
And, you know, on top of that, you know, taking away, you know, this person that probably, ah well, not even probably, this person i I thought I had control over and all of a sudden this individual is gone. And um yeah, then you're sitting there by yourself and, you know, you need people to, I mean, as ah as an alcoholic narcissist, like I was, um part of my program was, my program, quote unquote, at that point was, you know, being around people so I could fuck with them, you know?
00:29:16.19
Mike
Right.
00:29:16.66
Bill
um So I suppose maybe I was lonely at that point, but um yeah, it's funny, you know, I mean, every, every once in a while when, God, even with all, I'm trying to think, even with all this traveling that I, that I've done, um I haven't even gotten to the point where I've just been sitting there and like, you know, I, I need to get out and be around people, you know, um where I, where I felt uncomfortable or anything like that.
00:29:28.68
Mike
Mm
00:29:36.57
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.
00:29:40.38
Bill
And I think that's ah ah Going back again to this reading, I think that's a part of the hopefully the growth, you know, that we've gone through, um you know, and we talked about that being comfortable sitting by ourselves.
00:29:45.90
Mike
Yeah.
00:29:50.16
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:29:51.58
Bill
It's I'm not opposed to being around people because, again, in that in that time frame, that that whole seven week trip I took first week, I was down in Oklahoma, I got to spend um it was only one day, but I spent all day with my friend Morgan.
00:30:03.73
Mike
Right.
00:30:04.44
Bill
um Albuquerque was by myself Phoenix first week by myself then my other friend came in for a couple of days so I spent time with her and then obviously around Kimmy and Brian and then from there no I didn't you know I wasn't around anyone you know so I mean I had these brief periods which is I'm not opposed to it I guess is my point but um it's been a long time since I've I don't know even again I'm trying to think of the last time I sat there and i'm like I just got to get out front of a bunch of fucking people man you know
00:30:10.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:30:14.51
Mike
Right.
00:30:21.74
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:30:31.39
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:30:33.47
Bill
and And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm just, you know, it's being comfortable in our own skin, right?
00:30:35.42
Mike
Mm-mm.
00:30:38.99
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. i you know I mean, yes, there are people that I enjoy being around, but yeah, I don't need... that, you know, I don't need that outside stimuli to, to, leave whatever nonsense is going on inside of me. Cause I don't have that nonsense inside of me anymore.
00:31:00.74
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, um and I've thought about it a couple of times. Like I said, you know, when I'm traveling, I'm like, I'd like to get out to a meeting and take a few minutes and just I just to see how things are. But, you know, it's it's nice, you know, being around, can you know, being in a community and in all that stuff.
00:31:14.61
Bill
But I don't know what is.
00:31:14.75
Mike
Right.
00:31:16.03
Bill
It's ah it's it's kind of funny every time we talk about it. I I try to search for times and like, oh, yeah, this is what I really needed to be around people.
00:31:22.36
Mike
Right.
00:31:23.15
Bill
you know And again, it's not a bad thing. I have no, when I'm around people, I have a great fucking time. I really do.
00:31:27.38
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:31:28.34
Bill
um No issues with that. But so back to the, just the hungry, angly, low angly.
00:31:33.34
Mike
Angly. Wasn't that a televangelist?
00:31:38.00
Bill
He's gangly. he's a He's a hangly and gangly.
00:31:41.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:31:41.43
Bill
Hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
00:31:44.23
Mike
Yeah.
00:31:44.48
Bill
um But yeah, I like the way you put that. It's just ah yeah almost like clues that you're about to be an asshole. Yeah, I'm probably not going to be the um um not goingnna be the easiest person to be around when I felt that way.
00:31:49.79
Mike
Yeah.
00:31:55.74
Bill
And I think I've been at least three out of the four. Let's take out lonely because we just talked about that.
00:31:59.71
Mike
Sure. Right.
00:32:00.97
Bill
I've been i've been had probably a little bit of anger in there. I'm sure I've been hungry.
00:32:04.99
Mike
Sure.
00:32:05.15
Bill
i could always eat. So, I mean, that's always there.
00:32:06.42
Mike
Right.
00:32:08.02
Bill
um I'm probably always tired too, just because, you know, we're getting old.
00:32:10.11
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:12.15
Bill
So, and, and yeah so the, really the only thing we got to watch out for, basically you and I got to watch out.
00:32:13.01
Mike
There's that baseline exhaustion, right?
00:32:19.81
Bill
Just don't get fucking angry. You're cool.
00:32:20.98
Mike
Yeah, yeah, don't be suit don't be too pissed off, and and yeah, you should be all right.
00:32:21.34
Bill
Yeah.
00:32:25.73
Bill
Yeah, because we're already, we don't get lonely. We're already fucking hungry and we're tired.
00:32:30.12
Mike
Yep.
00:32:30.51
Bill
Make me a sandwich and I want to go to bed.
00:32:32.58
Mike
Yep.
00:32:32.82
Bill
yeah but no, I just, I never heard anyone specifically refer to those as triggers. And I'm like, really?
00:32:38.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:32:39.84
Bill
But um I mean, I get it, you know, for some people that it's just, it's, you know trigger warnings, all this different shit is, you know, for people.
00:32:45.00
Mike
Yeah.
00:32:45.81
Bill
But yeah, it's outside influences, as we've discussed before, which is what triggers are.
00:32:49.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:32:51.08
Bill
We don't believe in them because outside influences don't control our behavior. Only we do. Right?
00:32:55.94
Mike
That's right.
00:32:56.92
Bill
Okay, there we go.
00:32:56.90
Mike
Correct. I take full responsibility for everything I do, good and bad.
00:32:58.33
Bill
Yeah.
00:33:02.54
Bill
Yeah, yes.
00:33:03.05
Mike
And that's where the freedom lies.
00:33:05.24
Bill
Yeah. Again, back to back to the freedom thing. Wow. Look at that. Look at that.
00:33:08.90
Mike
hmm.
00:33:10.54
Bill
like we Going round and round tonight. Back to that. So um this was a weird weird question that came across my mind a couple of weeks ago. And we we've talked about probably more recently about the whole you know the whole atheism thing because it's come up on a couple of podcasts and things like that. And
00:33:27.49
Mike
All right.
00:33:27.95
Bill
They were they were talking about it on on Sober Friends. And back to the Joe and Charlie thing where um Joe and Charlie are right they were actually of the opinion that there's no such thing as atheism and whatever.
00:33:33.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:33:38.75
Bill
And Matt actually said, I don't agree.
00:33:39.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:33:40.39
Bill
This is that blah, blah, blah. So that placing it that aside, I just had a question for you because I don't I don't know that you and I ever talked about it.
00:33:41.69
Mike
Sure.
00:33:47.23
Mike
Okay.
00:33:47.48
Bill
um When did you realize or put a label on the fact that, okay, this is this is who I am and this is what my belief is? It's just curiosity because going back to when I was a kid.
00:33:55.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:33:57.35
Bill
We went to church. We did this. I had no real affiliation.
00:33:58.97
Mike
Right.
00:34:00.34
Bill
We spent the time in the steeple base building and all that stuff. But when did you have that clarification that, okay, this is this is how I feel and this is who I am?
00:34:09.86
Mike
It was very long and slow. um You know, I mean, I started off Catholic. um I was born again when I was 11 years old, got dunked and everything.
00:34:22.69
Mike
ha, ha, ha, ha. It was my choice um at that point.
00:34:26.37
Bill
Right.
00:34:27.39
Mike
um Yeah, you know, I mean, i it was it was it was slow, man. It was, you know, um I mean, i read I've read the book several times, um studied it in different ways.
00:34:41.87
Mike
forms. um Yeah. You know, and it just, it was, it was my whole life, man. It was, I just kept taking little baby steps away from it. Well, that doesn't make any sense. Okay.
00:34:53.23
Mike
Well, that doesn't make any sense. Okay. um Yeah. I mean, probably fully on, cause I mean, for about,
00:35:05.79
Mike
And maybe 10 years or so. Okay. So I went like full on Christian, then kind of, okay. You know, I'm not religious, but I i believe some of the stories.
00:35:17.39
Mike
oh And then I was like, well, that's kind of, I don't know, man. And so ah my father was Jewish. So I kind of leaned into that. Okay. The whole Christian thing that's hasn't, you know, that didn't work, but okay. The God thing and a little structure. And so the Judaism, okay.
00:35:35.69
Mike
And then, um and then I, I, um, talk about learning and, and, and getting knowledge and all that stuff. I discovered, um, deism, which is basically, okay, there's, there is, uh, an intelligence out there and whatever, but it doesn't have anything to do with us. It doesn't affect us.
00:35:55.73
Mike
Um, it doesn't have time to be bothered with us wandering around on this little rock floating in space. um, you know But there's still an intelligence out there, still a creator, blah, blah, blah. And I stuck with that for a long time. um And I finally just went, you know what, man? It's it's just, no, there's nothing, man. it's And that's fine. there's you know I'm not sad about it Oh, gosh, I'm not loved because some magical being doesn't love me.
00:36:27.11
Mike
um you know i just had no use for it anymore. And none of it. made any sense and and so i went well okay i'm done with all that and yeah that was probably five years or so before i got sober so yeah somewhere in there you know it's a little fuzzy because it was five years before i got sober uh-huh
00:36:34.95
Bill
Right.
00:36:46.29
Bill
Okay. Yeah, and I just... Yeah, I was going to say, probably that yeah that last five years was...
00:36:57.16
Bill
that Well, anything. the The ending of any of our careers like that is probably a little bit more fuzzy than it should be, but um or normal life should be.
00:37:00.54
Mike
ahha
00:37:03.04
Mike
Right.
00:37:04.88
Bill
But, you know, just say, again, when but I hear these little things, I'm like, kind i never yeah i never asked you that, you know? um Because I never put... um a label on myself even as the agnostic sort of thing um until until this you know until you know coming up on 15 years ago because i didn't know i knew i wasn't religious i had no religious background i knew i wasn't a god guy in the traditional in a traditional sense the the dude you see hanging on the cross in the steeple building i knew i wasn't that guy but i didn't know why you know
00:37:19.44
Mike
Right.
00:37:22.76
Mike
Right.
00:37:28.28
Mike
the Sure.
00:37:35.99
Mike
Right.
00:37:36.62
Bill
um And I didn't care to know, you know, i'm just like, eh, you know, and growing up as a kid, we did the, did the church every once in a while with our dad and our mom.
00:37:38.40
Mike
Yeah.
00:37:43.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:37:43.93
Bill
We did the Sunday school thing.
00:37:45.66
Mike
Sure.
00:37:46.11
Bill
um You know, I think I went through, i don't know, whatever the, going up to the communion thing, whatever, not catechism, that's Catholic, but it was luther and Lutheran, the Lutheran thing, you know.
00:37:55.75
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:37:58.19
Bill
So we started doing that when we were in Pittsburgh, I think. And I don't know, I don't even think I ever finished that because it just wasn't really, it wasn't really a thing, you know.
00:38:05.59
Mike
Yeah.
00:38:06.54
Bill
Um, but when it's, uh, again, once we came into the Keating center and started reading the big book and the, in the, in these meetings, I knew what I, I, I pretty much sort of knew what I wasn't, but I didn't know what I was, you know, and it's, I've gotten a little bit of that clarity and, and still the, the thing of it is, is I'm
00:38:18.81
Mike
Right.
00:38:22.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:38:25.54
Bill
i and why When I say agnostic at best is because i just I feel like something's out there, but I don't know what it is, but that's what being agnostic is.
00:38:34.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:38:34.51
Bill
But I can understand the point of, you know well, I don't give a fuck what's next. But then the on the other side of things, I'm like, well, shit, that's kind of that's kind of dark thinking that there's nothing else. So I kind of i do.
00:38:46.20
Bill
i'm i'm firmly I'm firmly but loosely stuck in this agnostic thing. I'm comfortable with that.
00:38:50.59
Mike
Sure. Well, yeah.
00:38:51.97
Bill
Yeah.
00:38:52.58
Mike
Cool.
00:38:53.35
Bill
and that's And that's the thing.
00:38:53.52
Mike
Right.
00:38:54.89
Bill
And i um i one of the reasons, though, I ask you all these questions because it's, again, back to the knowledge thing. I'm curious. i i I've heard plenty of stuff about the God thing. I could read a book.
00:39:05.33
Bill
I could listen to people. if you I mean, people tell you about God without even wanting fucking hear about it. I get all that stuff.
00:39:09.80
Mike
Right. oh yeah.
00:39:10.63
Bill
I know what that is.
00:39:11.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:39:12.62
Bill
I don't always know what what your thing is. That's why I ask you about it.
00:39:14.64
Mike
Right.
00:39:15.46
Bill
So...
00:39:15.57
Mike
Yeah.
00:39:16.55
Bill
But yeah, I appreciate you, you know, kind of, i don't know, indulging me on that because I think it's it's it's interesting to me, but I truly think it it's got to be interesting for other people.
00:39:19.96
Mike
Oh, absolutely.
00:39:25.27
Bill
Or if nothing else, it's adding nuggets of information to that other folks might be interested in too, my opinion though.
00:39:29.04
Mike
Sure.
00:39:31.36
Mike
And I mean, right. And the only reason that I even talk about it anymore, because, you know, I mean, you know, part of part of a lot of people's atheism is, you know, trying to convince other people that they're wrong, um which I don't do anymore because I can't.
00:39:47.64
Bill
Right.
00:39:49.33
Mike
Well, I can, but I choose not to. Yeah. But, I mean, the big reason I talk about it anymore is because, you know, I want people to know that, you know, you can do this thing and still not have the traditional beliefs in whatever it is.
00:40:07.05
Bill
Right.
00:40:07.83
Mike
You know, I know that's why you talk about your agnosticism too, right?
00:40:12.38
Bill
right
00:40:12.75
Mike
Easy for me to say. um Yeah, but I mean, that's the only reason I talk about it anymore. i Just to let people know, look, man, you don't have to believe in shit. um If you do the work and you work this program, you can still get the results from it.
00:40:22.78
Bill
Right.
00:40:27.91
Mike
I'm living proof of it. That's the only reason I bring it up anymore.
00:40:31.75
Bill
Right.
00:40:31.74
Mike
Because, I mean, because, yeah, I mean... I can't ah can't fight with people about their beliefs anymore because it's none of my fucking business, first of all. And second of all, I'm not going to change anybody's mind. And again, you know talk about wasting calories and burning calories for nothing.
00:40:49.17
Mike
um yeah Yeah, why? you know i wish other i wish the other side would have that attitude a little more.
00:40:55.24
Bill
Right, right.
00:40:55.91
Mike
but yeah But again, shit, I can't control, man. All I can do is control myself. So I like to, you know, i just let people know you can do this thing without believing in, you know, anything.
00:41:06.16
Mike
Well, I mean, you have to believe in something, but just not yourself.
00:41:08.27
Bill
Mm-hmm.
00:41:10.88
Bill
Right. Well, and that was and that's the biggest thing.
00:41:11.53
Mike
Yep.
00:41:12.95
Bill
and i And I know that, I mean, both of us have that have that motivation, that same motivation in talking about it. And you're exactly right. I mean, I don't, um in in a normal circumstance out there in normal life, um it never comes up, ah my my religion or lack of, unless somebody asks me, you know, which never happens.
00:41:24.56
Mike
Yeah.
00:41:26.98
Mike
Right.
00:41:29.90
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:41:33.47
Bill
Right.
00:41:34.10
Mike
Right.
00:41:34.56
Bill
People don't walk up, hey, by the way, how you doing? And what do you believe in? you know You know, people, especially these days, people are too fucking scared to say anything.
00:41:38.23
Mike
Right.
00:41:41.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:41:42.08
Bill
So don't have to worry about any of that crap.
00:41:43.77
Mike
Well, I mean, you know, I get it. I will get it occasionally because, you know, I have a few stickers on my car.
00:41:48.59
Bill
Oh, your stickers. Yeah, sure.
00:41:49.81
Mike
Right. I have a Hail Satan sticker and I have an AA sticker. So I do occasionally people, hey, how can you? And I go, how can you have that and have that? Well, because I can.
00:42:02.30
Bill
Right.
00:42:04.11
Mike
you know And again, i keep it real simple and I don't argue with people.
00:42:07.53
Bill
Thank you.
00:42:07.98
Mike
I just go, well, the Satan sticker is all made up because all that shit's made up. And yes, I am a sober alcoholic and then I move on with my life.
00:42:17.16
Bill
But I mean, I know that was the thing for both of us because you you said it openly, had you had a concern about this you know power greater than yourself, whatever.
00:42:21.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:42:23.78
Mike
Right.
00:42:24.77
Bill
and And I remember you know talking to Mark a little bit when Kathy's ex-Mark, either when I was just going in or whatever it was, and you know that ah both of us, it was brought up, I'm not a God guy.
00:42:29.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:42:35.71
Bill
And I i knew it going in and i like could didn't I knew enough of this stuff from my dad.
00:42:35.96
Mike
Right.
00:42:40.19
Bill
And I know my dad leaned towards that traditional God thing.
00:42:40.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:42:43.22
Mike
Sure.
00:42:44.08
Bill
um And then, like like I said, it was our buddy Dan, you know, I think that said it, up you know, you don't have to believe in anything.
00:42:48.15
Mike
Yeah.
00:42:50.19
Bill
Just know it's not you. And I'm just like, Jesus, this wave of of relief came over and that was it.
00:42:52.88
Mike
and Right.
00:42:55.53
Bill
And that's why I said that's when I figured out that, um number one, that was probably the first the first comfort moment I had.
00:43:02.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:43:03.34
Bill
um you know, getting into this thing. And that was relatively early and that was a gift. um But on top of that, too, really getting a grasp on the fact that it was ah it was a relief not to have to worry about it, then having something just develop over the years.
00:43:07.36
Mike
Yep.
00:43:17.50
Bill
And then again, with the reading and learning and listening, and I've got i've gotten plenty of opinions and in stories and hearing about all that stuff.
00:43:17.94
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:43:25.16
Bill
And then to be able to develop And get a grasp on what, what it is that I am and what I want to be in this world.
00:43:32.01
Mike
Right.
00:43:32.32
Bill
And, you know, but the main thing is it doesn't fuck, not like like Dan said, none of it fucking matters, you know, just, it's not me that much.
00:43:37.24
Mike
Yeah.
00:43:39.08
Bill
I know good.
00:43:39.84
Mike
Yep. Yep.
00:43:42.17
Bill
So. but But no, seriously, thank you. And I, um like I said, I mean, I don't, I don't mean to, you know, pick apart that, that you know, your' your thing all the time. And I don't mean to do that.
00:43:51.09
Mike
No.
00:43:51.63
Bill
and I know you don't, you don't think I'm doing that, but it just, it's, it's a, it's a genuine curiosity.
00:43:52.14
Mike
No, no, no. Right.
00:43:56.60
Bill
And I just think it's always, it's interesting to me. So again, knowledge, knowledge is, what is it?
00:44:00.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:44:02.48
Bill
Knowledge is.
00:44:03.09
Mike
Knowledge is good.
00:44:05.61
Bill
Thank you.
00:44:05.87
Mike
Faber College.
00:44:07.05
Bill
Thank you, Animal House.
00:44:09.09
Mike
That's right.
00:44:10.80
Bill
All right. So on that note, what do you think there, buddy boy?
00:44:12.27
Mike
Mm-hmm. All right. Well, we'll be right back with more of this deep philosophical conversations right after these words from our sponsors.
00:44:31.89
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. Boy, deep and philosophical. Those are things that you never thought you'd hear on the Sober Not Mature podcast.
00:44:37.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:44:42.48
Bill
Hello, everyone.
00:44:42.66
Mike
That's right.
00:44:44.76
Bill
Welcome to something deep and philosophical. I'm Bill.
00:44:47.58
Mike
Right. I'm just some asshole.
00:44:48.99
Bill
You are?
00:44:50.72
Mike
All right.
00:44:54.98
Bill
ah But no, I just, ah I like the fact that I never know what we're going to fucking talk about. I got, I got fucking notes all over the place, but every once in a while, I'm just, it makes me kind of laugh on the shit we talk about.
00:44:59.92
Mike
right
00:45:05.39
Mike
And you know what?
00:45:05.93
Bill
So
00:45:05.83
Mike
I knew we were getting close to having to take a little break there. So I was backing off, but I got a little something to share with everybody.
00:45:12.07
Bill
feel free.
00:45:13.68
Mike
All right. So, um, at my home group this week, um, the guy that led this guy named Greg. Hi, Greg. He, apparently he listens once in a while.
00:45:22.02
Bill
Hello, Greg.
00:45:22.80
Mike
Hi, Greg. um Yeah, he's a he's a Keating guy. um He's got seven years now.
00:45:26.19
Bill
Thank
00:45:28.64
Mike
And anyway, it was it I hadn't seen him in a while, probably since the last fundraiser or something, you know. um And he he was a dude. Well, background, he was a dude that bounced around a lot. He was in and out and in and out. Marty kept letting him back in because that's, you know, what Marty does.
00:45:45.63
Mike
And um like I said, he's got seven years now. He's actually doing the thing and doing the thing. But he was a guy that was ah in my groups, you know, because he was in and out and in and out ah during those, you know, five, six, seven years, whatever it was that I was doing group there.
00:46:01.71
Mike
Um, it's funny. He started his lead off with, um, cause something I used to do a group was all the time. I'd talk about practicing. We need to practice this thing, practice these things in all our affairs.
00:46:10.13
Bill
right
00:46:13.38
Mike
Um, practice makes perfect. You know, um, how do you get better at doing something? You practice, you know, how do you get better at musical instrument? You practice. How do you get better at sports?
00:46:23.96
Mike
You practice. How do you get better at being a sober, decent human being? You practice. Um, um So he got up there and he started his lead off. He's all, yeah, it's not one of my favorite things to do. I'm not all that good at it, but I keep practicing and I'm getting a little bit better. And he fucking looked at me.
00:46:41.45
Bill
but
00:46:41.36
Mike
okay It was just, um it was really fucking cool. And he did a couple other things too during his lead that were directly from my groups at the at the Keating Center.
00:46:53.92
Mike
And each time he'd look at me when he did it. And it was just, it was really nice to You know, it wasn't overt, but it was very nice to see that, you know, um at least one guy and all through all those guys that I did groups with for all those years, um but actually picked up a few things and put them into practice.
00:47:16.47
Bill
Right.
00:47:16.52
Mike
And yeah, it was it was it was just really cool. So thank you, Greg.
00:47:22.26
Bill
Yeah. I mean, that's, so that's, it's, it's nice. It's the, i don't know, what do they call that? um The truest form of flattery is people copying you or, is it something?
00:47:32.80
Mike
Right imitation.
00:47:34.57
Bill
Imitation. There we go. i was like, God, can't think of the word, you know, but um it is. And, you know, even something that's, you know, that's minor like that, like you said, not overt or whatever, but, you know, clearly they kind of give it a look going, yeah, do this game from you type of thing.
00:47:44.17
Mike
Right.
00:47:46.91
Mike
Right.
00:47:47.88
Bill
um And you know what? I, when even that's whether it's what we used to do and the group and what we do now in the podcast, there's been plenty of moments like that, that every, eat not plenty, but every once in a while, you know, somebody will come up to us.
00:47:55.39
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm
00:48:00.25
Bill
Somebody will say something, whether it's, I listened to this, that you guys said on the podcast, this is this stuck with me or, you know,
00:48:01.36
Mike
hmm.
00:48:06.70
Bill
I remember when you said this in a lead or going back to what what you said in a group.
00:48:09.12
Mike
Right.
00:48:10.40
Bill
I mean, it's kind of like, okay, so years and years and all these fucking blah, blah, blahs that come out of our mouths and under any circumstance and just having a couple of words hit with a couple of people.
00:48:17.90
Mike
Right.
00:48:20.42
Bill
I mean, that's really what this shit is all about.
00:48:20.86
Mike
Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, you know, having it, again, you know, like,
00:48:23.12
Bill
and And how nice.
00:48:26.46
Mike
the stuff that was given to us and then we give it to them, it's, it's flowing through us.
00:48:28.89
Bill
Right.
00:48:31.10
Mike
It's again, I'm not taking any credit for any of this shit, you know?
00:48:33.99
Bill
No, no, no. very Right, right.
00:48:34.83
Mike
Right. And, you know, I mean, I know one of them was, he was talking, he talked about making his bed, which was one of the big ones that I did when I did group, you know?
00:48:41.49
Bill
Right.
00:48:43.07
Mike
I talk about, you know, I've got a bunk in the back of this truck that nobody ever sees, and it's fucking made every day because it's, you know, doesn't make sense what the hell's it got to do with staying sober, but it's what I do because it was what I was taught.
00:48:55.65
Mike
And, yeah, just, you know, flowed from someone into me and out of me into someone else. And, um you know, hopefully when he was up there doing his thing that night, it was flowing into somebody else again, you know, which is just, yeah, it's...
00:49:08.42
Bill
right
00:49:10.22
Mike
it's I know that's how this works and blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, seeing, actually seeing it in front of your eyes occasionally is is pretty fucking cool.
00:49:20.05
Bill
Right. Yeah. I mean, actually, you know, seeing that, um you know, we're practicing what we preach and having somebody else practice what what we preach because we practice what somebody else preached.
00:49:28.34
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:49:30.59
Bill
It's, some yeah, it is. I mean, that's literally how this whole thing works. But yeah, that's, I mean, that's great. I mean, especially the the fact that, well, first of all, the fact that he bounced in and out and he's got seven years now.
00:49:40.71
Mike
Right.
00:49:41.12
Bill
Congratulations, Greg, on that. um You know, for even if it, you know, takes a couple of times people bouncing around.
00:49:46.16
Mike
o
00:49:46.36
Bill
I give people all the credit in the fucking world that, know, You know, that did bounce, relapse, come back, and then, you know, finally it sticks.
00:49:52.45
Mike
Right.
00:49:53.39
Bill
But usually it comes back to, like you said, finally doing the work, finally practicing the shit, finally yelling.
00:49:53.83
Mike
Yeah.
00:49:56.29
Mike
Yep. Yep.
00:49:58.66
Bill
He's getting up there.
00:49:58.76
Mike
Oh, he absolutely said that in his lead.
00:50:02.64
Bill
Right? Yeah.
00:50:04.05
Mike
Right. I finally fucking started doing the thing.
00:50:07.39
Bill
Right, right. in the Yeah, the make of the bed thing. When I, yeah I don't know, I probably wouldn't have told you because I don't think we've, well, whatever it was. When I left the Lake of the Ozarks, um and i don't remember if, I think I did it on purpose because that that place had three bedrooms, but I only used one.
00:50:21.50
Bill
And even though I left the guy a message, I'm like, I'm just going to take the sheets off there to make it clear, you know, for the cleaning crew that comes in so don't have you know, fucking wash the sheets on all the goddamn beds.
00:50:29.90
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:50:30.94
Bill
You know, so, um but the same thing. I get up in the morning, I made this fucking bed.
00:50:35.60
Mike
Yup.
00:50:36.59
Bill
Waited two seconds, unmade it, took the fucking comforter off, ripped the sheets off, and then you know made it up again and then folded the comforter down halfway.
00:50:37.46
Mike
Yup. Right. Yeah.
00:50:44.20
Mike
know
00:50:44.57
Bill
you know course, you know with the pillows, without the pillowcases is on, I don't use the pillows at these places anyhow. I bring my own, but I still am like, I'll take the pillowcases off.
00:50:49.09
Mike
right yeah
00:50:51.84
Bill
going to do it anyhow. They don't fucking know. um But yeah, I made my bed to unmake it and take the sheets off.
00:50:53.89
Mike
Right.
00:50:56.56
Mike
Yup.
00:50:57.38
Bill
Ha, ha, ha.
00:50:57.40
Mike
Yup. Yeah. No, I, right.
00:50:59.88
Bill
Ha, ha. And I, went every time I'm doing it, it's not like it's, I think about that. I'm like, this is so ridiculous, but I have to do it. ah You know, it's the the fact that I have to make it remake a bed.
00:51:06.31
Mike
yeah so i right I mean, I've only done one, you know, i've I don't think it was technically an Airbnb, but it was, you know, whatever, sharing, blah, blah, blah thing. Same thing.
00:51:17.29
Mike
ah When we were Myrtle Beach, right?
00:51:19.30
Bill
Right.
00:51:19.25
Mike
Yeah. Same thing. It was, you know, take sheets off, put them on the floor, blah, blah, bla blah, blah. I made the fucking bed up before I did that. Yeah, me too. Had to.
00:51:27.64
Bill
I know it is. It's like, it's like, Oh, this is so stupid. It's, but it's, it's, it takes you an extra four seconds.
00:51:30.40
Mike
Yeah.
00:51:32.62
Bill
I mean, it's nothing like it's, it's not hard, you know?
00:51:32.72
Mike
Right.
00:51:35.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:51:36.17
Bill
And, uh, I mean, I didn't, it's not like I'm walking around tucking the, you know, I'm not like military making my bed or anything like that, but, uh,
00:51:41.51
Mike
Right.
00:51:43.44
Bill
Yeah, you physically make the bed then you unmake it. It's just, yeah, yeah, it is.
00:51:45.57
Mike
Yep.
00:51:47.40
Bill
it's But you know what? I mean, the the littlest things like that, they they mean something. It's the habit. It's the routine that we talked about to begin with that we always fucking talk about.
00:51:53.54
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:51:56.30
Mike
Right.
00:51:56.47
Bill
um I don't know what I would do, you know, without the without the routine. Last weekend when I was up in... in Appleton. Um, you know, so the, the short story on that, Kimmy went to, a concert.
00:52:07.68
Bill
There was a concert that was canceled back in whatever it was. And then the, the redo of the concert. So, um, you know, my, my son-in-law works and I went up, I get up there by noon and he goes to work and I babysit and he's home after work.
00:52:12.47
Mike
yeah
00:52:19.11
Bill
And, you know, my daughter was home the next day cause they were going up to, um, Disney on ice in Cleveland. So I got to see her before she left. And then also for a little bit on the, when she got back, um,
00:52:30.17
Bill
But I ended up up, you know, because again, Ollie sleeps in in his room now, you know, so that that was the room I used to sleep in
00:52:34.37
Mike
Right? Hmm.
00:52:36.60
Bill
So the last time I was there, it was still warmer out. And I slept in like Kimmy's like office area towards the back. um And goes there's just like a little air conditioner in there, too.
00:52:43.60
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:52:46.11
Bill
And I'm like, I'll just put the air mattress in there. But this time I set it up in the living room. But I had asked Brian because in in my head, i'm like, OK, so I don't have a room to do my readings.
00:52:55.08
Mike
Right. Right.
00:52:56.44
Bill
And I just said um because he was going to pick up their their dog in the morning. And I said, what time you want to what time you got to get up with this that. So I got up like 45 minutes before he was going to get up.
00:53:07.94
Mike
Right.
00:53:08.73
Bill
So I got up, get myself, did my readings. so And you know what? Him and Ali walked out. You know, it was like right at, he said he was going to get up at 7.15. I think it was like a little after seven when they came out. But it gave me time to do my readings. And all I had to do was, you know, I hopped on Facebook like I do. I did my Instagram posts, with my reading and stuff like that.
00:53:24.95
Mike
Right.
00:53:25.36
Bill
um But I planned my morning around that, you know.
00:53:28.79
Mike
Yeah. Right.
00:53:30.06
Bill
And because I'm like, I can go sit in the bathroom or whatever, but I'm like, if I have the opportunity just to do it on my own, if I'm at somebody else's house and I don't i have a room to sit in, I'll plan around it.
00:53:34.26
Mike
Right.
00:53:41.45
Bill
I get up earlier probably than I needed to, um but not really. I get up as early as I needed to.
00:53:46.05
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Carve the time out, take the time, however it needs to happen, and do it.
00:53:54.48
Bill
Right.
00:53:54.88
Mike
Yeah.
00:53:55.21
Bill
Yeah. And it was, you know, it was, it was so funny because so um well, let me, I'll tell you about my, yeah you know, I'll just mix together. It shouldn't take that long. um I'll mix together my, my last weekend, last weekend and also my ailments for the week.
00:54:07.47
Bill
So um last Saturday I went up to Appleton.
00:54:07.75
Mike
All right.
00:54:11.89
Bill
I left, I got up early cause I needed to be up there by noon. I always give myself like, It takes about a solid four hours to get up there maybe, but I'm like, okay, stop, whatever traffic, who knows.
00:54:19.21
Mike
v
00:54:22.91
Bill
I always give myself five hours if I'm going up there, if I have to be there at a specific time.
00:54:27.11
Mike
Right.
00:54:27.55
Bill
um So I'm like, okay. So I got there you know early enough, like 1130, quarter to 12. I didn't have to be there till noon, but I mean, I was up fucking stupid early.
00:54:35.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:54:36.07
Bill
Didn't sleep well on Friday on friday night, um so I got very little sleep on Friday. Tired as fuck going up. um Obviously, had a at a nice afternoon with wa Ali when he went down for his nap like from 2 to 4.
00:54:48.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:54:48.54
Bill
I'm sitting there on a couch for a minute just kind of going...
00:54:51.24
Mike
Right.
00:54:51.75
Bill
I'm like, fuck, man, I can't go to sleep.
00:54:51.72
Mike
Sure. Yep.
00:54:53.14
Bill
I'm not going want to wake up again. So, um, but I'm like, you know what?
00:54:54.40
Mike
right
00:54:56.09
Bill
Hey, when, when Brian gets home, you know, a lot of times he's tired from work, he'll go to bed early. I'll get to bed early. Ish. Not Brian. And I shot the shit about God knows fucking what until like, you know, after midnight. So it's like 12, 1230 or something like that.
00:55:05.88
Mike
sure
00:55:08.08
Bill
Maybe almost one o'clock by the time I get to sleep, I got up at six 30. So almost no sleep. Um, But I mean, tired, you know, kind of all weekend. But again, I had a nice weekend. But so first of all, I walk in the door, same deal as like when I was in Phoenix.
00:55:22.90
Bill
Grandpa runs up to me, hug, hug, kiss, kiss the whole bit.
00:55:23.72
Mike
Yes. Yes.
00:55:26.78
Bill
And, you know, he's, he's talking more and he was talking more in Phoenix, but I mean, it just, I haven't heard um the word grandpa so much um ever in my life. Cause everything is grandpa, grandpa, this grandpa, this grab grab, grab, grab, which is wonderful.
00:55:40.24
Bill
All of it's wonderful.
00:55:40.58
Mike
yes
00:55:41.89
Bill
um But I mean, just had a really nice time. And Brian even told me, he goes, he goes, he, he really loves you. Yeah.
00:55:49.16
Mike
yeah
00:55:50.24
Bill
And I'm like, I'm like, no. And he's like, no, he goes, he goes, I don't just mean that, you know, of course he loves you, but he really, really loves you.
00:55:54.71
Mike
Right. Yeah.
00:55:56.23
Bill
He goes, he goes, he talks about you just randomly, just out of the blue. He brings you up all the time, you know? And I'm like, cra I'm like, that's just so, it's so fucking nice, you know? Um, so he and I are hanging out.
00:56:08.10
Bill
I ordered, uh, usually ordered Chinese food. When you and I are together, we get Chinese food. There's a place I get Chinese food up there.
00:56:11.69
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:56:13.80
Bill
That's nice out. We'll walk up to the corner. I mean, ever since he was born, we'd walk up to the corner when it's nice out or there's another place I ordered it from. So he, I usually get him like a chicken fried rice, which he's, he ate pretty good, but then he's like, I'm full.
00:56:25.56
Bill
Like, okay. So I'm, I just happened to be standing in the kitchen. i was kind of eating at the counter while he was getting his, you know, eating his stuff. Um,
00:56:31.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:56:32.14
Bill
And I had like this broccoli chicken thing, almost same type of thing I get by you.
00:56:36.25
Mike
Right?
00:56:36.43
Bill
And then he comes walking into the kitchen after he's full, quote unquote, right?
00:56:40.41
Mike
Uh-huh.
00:56:41.40
Bill
he He's got this little chair. He pulls it up and he pulls it up to the counter and, um you know, stands up on the chair next to me. And he just points to and and he says, can I try it? I'm like, you want some?
00:56:52.09
Bill
He's like, yeah. So I said, what do you want? I said, there, I said, there's chicken. He's like, yeah, chicken. So piece of chicken. in He's like, yeah, can have some more? So i' I'm feeding him chicken rice. he's like, can some broccoli? I'm like, so he's eating with me and I'm sitting there and I'm like, Kimmy was texting me at the time.
00:57:03.21
Mike
Right.
00:57:07.03
Bill
She's like, how's he doing? I'm like, oh, he's, you know, we sharing my dirty. She's like, oh, I'm so sorry. He's eating. I'm like, you don't have to apologize. I said, this is one of, this is one of the greatest fucking moments I've had.
00:57:12.84
Mike
No.
00:57:15.67
Bill
Like ever I'm sitting there.
00:57:16.17
Mike
Right. Right.
00:57:17.77
Bill
I'm sitting there. My grandson is just standing. My grandson is eating with me, you know?
00:57:21.86
Mike
Yeah. Right. You guys are standing at the counter like a couple of bros.
00:57:25.82
Bill
Yeah. And he's, he's just, you know, he's, he's three years older almost in a couple of weeks and he's standing on a chair, but yeah, we're standing there at the counter eating dinner, you know?
00:57:29.47
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.
00:57:32.85
Mike
Yep.
00:57:33.31
Bill
Um, and I'm like, if I get hungry, I just eat the rest his shit or or some of his stuff.
00:57:36.61
Mike
Right.
00:57:37.71
Bill
But I'm like, it was fucking beautiful. was wonderful. So, um, So we're, we're, we're playing in his bedroom. um You know, at one point, I'll tell you about that in a second, but then it's, it's getting to be time for bed.
00:57:47.93
Bill
You know, it's usually around eight o'clock. She said, so, and you could tell I had changed his diaper and he's like yawning and stuff. So like, okay.
00:57:53.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:57:54.12
Bill
I'm like, ah you know, it's almost bedtime. And he's like, he's like four minutes. That's his thing.
00:57:58.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:57:58.38
Bill
You know, I guess, you know, he'll four minutes or a number of minutes. Brian said that. So I said, ah i said, okay. But I said, I'll tell you what I said, I'll, i'll read you a book before you got to go to bed but i said then you know we're going to start getting ready ready for bed so i said go in your room get me a book so it goes brings out a book whatever it was so i'm sitting on the couch And so he, he goes on one side of the couch and they've got, um, you know, it's couch with kind of square armrests, you know, like that rounded off square.
00:58:23.75
Bill
So his thing, and I saw him do it before and he seems to know what he's doing, but he stands up and he stands on there and he jumps on the couch and yeah, you know what I mean?
00:58:30.20
Mike
Don't we all?
00:58:32.53
Bill
You know, but I mean, he's standing up there. I'm like, eh, but it's not as if he hasn't done it before. It's clearly he's done it before.
00:58:37.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
00:58:38.39
Bill
So he gets on there. i start to read and then he bounces to me and I'm at one end of the couch and he's like, he's like, you got to go sit over there. I'm like, what do you sit over there? You go sit over there. Then he's pointing in the kitchen. He goes, go sit at the table.
00:58:51.02
Mike
for
00:58:51.54
Bill
And I'm like, I'm not going to go sit at the table and read to you, which it's it's an open concept thing. It's not that far away.
00:58:56.97
Mike
Right, right.
00:58:57.39
Bill
But I'm like, no. And he said, I want to bounce. I'm like, oh, I got you.
00:59:01.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:59:01.95
Bill
So I sat on the footstool. And then he's bouncing back and forth, bouncing back and forth, read his book. It's all done. And I said, OK. I said, now it's time time to hop down. We got to get ready for bed. I said, i said you can bounce one more time. And then I said, you're done.
00:59:13.52
Mike
Yep.
00:59:13.81
Bill
So um he gets down and I walked out to the kitchen for some reason. I look back and he gets back up on the couch and he starts to bounce again.
00:59:18.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.
00:59:19.57
Bill
And I'm like, hey, you know, now I didn't yell at him, but sternly, I'm like, I'm like, I said, you know, you're done.
00:59:22.09
Mike
Right.
00:59:24.86
Bill
It's bedtime. He looks at me, he stops and he starts fucking bawling.
00:59:26.84
Mike
season
00:59:31.31
Mike
Yep.
00:59:33.30
Bill
He's super sensitive about certain stuff. And I swear to God, I didn't yell at him.
00:59:36.81
Mike
Right.
00:59:37.30
Bill
It was stern.
00:59:37.67
Mike
who Yeah, right.
00:59:38.06
Bill
Don't get me wrong. But I mean, I didn't yell at him. So he's sitting on the couch and he's fucking crying. And I'm like, I'm like, come on now. I said, you know, I i said, I told you to stop. I said, it's time for bed. He's like, and I'm like, we to ready for And he's like, no.
00:59:48.29
Mike
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.
00:59:49.84
Bill
And I said, okay. I said, I'll tell you what, I'm going to go in your bedroom. When you're done crying, you can come in with me.
00:59:55.33
Mike
Hey.
00:59:55.61
Bill
So I walk into the bedroom and he just follows me right the fucking bedroom. ah He just fought walked in with me. And then he's kind of still crying a little bit. And I said, I said, so, um you know, I said, I told you to stop, right? and he's like, yes. I said, can you apologize?
01:00:10.27
Bill
He said, I'm sorry. And said, I am too. Big hug. We're all cool, you know?
01:00:12.65
Mike
is
01:00:13.83
Bill
But I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ.
01:00:15.10
Mike
a
01:00:16.63
Bill
But so earlier we're, we're sitting in his bedroom and we're playing and, I don't even know what we were playing with. He, but he, we're just hell back in the bedroom, out and back from watching movies, doing whatever. And we're sitting down and I didn't hear him the first time. I said, well, what'd you say? And he said, he goes, i have a penis.
01:00:33.17
Bill
My daddy has a penis. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I did hear you the first time I said, okay, nice. And I just kind of went on with it, but I'm like, Jesus Christ.
01:00:43.53
Mike
Hey, me too.
01:00:44.02
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. That was my thought. I'm like, um, I, I got one of those too, but we're not going even go there, but he was just, it was fucking wonderful.
01:00:50.42
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.
01:00:52.71
Bill
And then when, uh, when I was leaving the next day, you know, I hugging him and he's like, he goes, he goes, I want to go and grab his car.
01:00:53.14
Mike
ando
01:00:58.23
Bill
I want to go and grab his car. And then I'm like, I said, I'll see you in a couple of weeks. I said, you're fine. You know, he's like, okay, okay. Just gave me a hug and stuff, but, um, just fucking wonderful. Just absolutely wonderful.
01:01:07.91
Mike
Right.
01:01:09.65
Bill
Um, then side note on that. I'm taught, I was texting back with Kimmy the other day, uh, yesterday or the day before, And the circumstance of her saying this to me, really unimportant, but it was an outside circumstance she was telling me.
01:01:21.48
Bill
But she texted me and she goes, I just wanted to tell you how much we appreciate the fact of um the time you make for us every time you're in the area. She said, you know, between us and and Derek, she's like, means a lot to us.
01:01:33.02
Mike
right
01:01:33.32
Bill
And I'm like, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, i I truly enjoy spending time with you guys, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Didn't think about as much, but it was like later on, it was yesterday we were talking about I'm just like, I'm like, what the fuck, man? I said, um one of my children, and especially the one that I alienated years ago, is now thanking me for the time that I'm giving her.
01:01:53.54
Bill
um And I'm just like, talk about fucking mind blown. And I'm like, man, Jesus, you know, and, and once again, what were you talking about a few episodes ago? What do we do to deserve this? Nothing.
01:02:02.64
Mike
Yeah, not really.
01:02:03.22
Bill
You know, all we do, you know, I mean, just doing the work every day, doing the things.
01:02:03.70
Mike
Right.
01:02:08.02
Bill
And um I mean, these are the things we get in return. I don't even think I would never, I mean, i go to Wisconsin to see them. If I ever went there up there for any other reason, I,
01:02:15.09
Mike
Right. Yeah, i know. Well, you're in the area.
01:02:18.02
Bill
yeah
01:02:18.07
Mike
What the fuck else am I doing up here?
01:02:20.22
Bill
Well, if i if I needed to go up, say at some point I'm going to to to the DMV up there because once I get my license plates, I got to go at my place transferred.
01:02:24.19
Mike
Right.
01:02:26.66
Bill
I think I have to go in.
01:02:28.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:02:28.43
Bill
got to go get my real ID at one point.
01:02:28.43
Mike
All
01:02:30.17
Bill
I'll probably do that all at once.
01:02:31.59
Mike
right.
01:02:31.83
Bill
um So I will be up there at one point. But if I'm going to be there, I'll be, hey, just so you know I'm going to be in town. You know, it's obviously in the middle of the day.
01:02:36.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:02:38.42
Bill
umm not going to have a chance to see you guys, but I'll be here. I would never just sneak into town and sneak out. It would just, you know, that's old behavior, you know.
01:02:45.54
Mike
Yes, it is.
01:02:47.40
Bill
But um I don't know. It's just the, again, the the Ali himself, I mean, he is what he is, but it just, ah it made me feel really good when Kimmy said that. It just, it just thanking me for it. I'm like, why, you know, um in my head, I'm like, I, part of me is like, why would you even say thank you? Of course. I mean, it's, you know, it's a selfish thing, but I mean, appreciate, you know what i mean?
01:03:04.92
Mike
Right.
01:03:05.24
Bill
It's like the things that we, um I don't know, I'm getting back tenfold, whatever they, they might be feeling. I'm i'm feeling just as much, if not more, maybe, I don't even know.
01:03:13.18
Mike
Right. Yeah.
01:03:15.44
Bill
All I can be is just fucking grateful. That's all I can.
01:03:16.99
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's just it. Right. And I mean, sometimes, you know, it's sometimes it's tough for us to accept the fact that we're actually fucking making other people feel good.
01:03:29.56
Mike
We're not used to it, man.
01:03:29.68
Bill
Right.
01:03:31.09
Mike
You know, it's it's again, not talk about our unnatural state. this This whole thing is not our natural state. And sometimes it's it's difficult to to remember and realize, you know, just fucking we're making other people happy. God damn.
01:03:47.38
Bill
Right.
01:03:48.44
Mike
Yeah. And it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's sometimes it's tough for us to conceive of.
01:03:55.05
Bill
Right. And that's why, you know, I, did, I replayed it my head. I'm like all the, you know, the, the, the way I was in, in the, though this relationship that she and I rebuilt, you know, um, now probably what 12, 13 years ago, you know, but, um, stronger than it ever was.
01:04:00.36
Mike
see
01:04:06.31
Mike
Right.
01:04:08.65
Bill
And, you know, the, um, and all these things, you know, i then I take a look at the relationship I have with Dawn.
01:04:08.94
Mike
Yeah.
01:04:14.42
Bill
And I mean, the relationship I have with Derek, you know, Derek just never had, he was sheltered, you know, thanks to Dawn, you know, from, from the fucking dickhead that I was, um,
01:04:16.88
Mike
v
01:04:20.35
Mike
Right.
01:04:23.10
Mike
From your
01:04:24.41
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, thankfully, um you know, I didn't I didn't let it out on him as ah as much or he didn't realize it as much because of the age he was, you know.
01:04:33.05
Mike
Sure.
01:04:34.44
Bill
So, um yeah, I mean, it's just a it's it's it's amazing. I mean, the again, that this ripple effect that we talk about, you know, um and We joke about it. all All I had to do is, you know, I got to do some steps.
01:04:45.08
Bill
I got to read some fucking books.
01:04:45.44
Mike
see
01:04:46.24
Bill
I got to be a big decent human being.
01:04:48.08
Mike
Right.
01:04:48.34
Bill
And it is just that. It is that simple, you know. But, um yeah, like you said, that's a great way to put it. It's, yeah, realizing that we're we are we are. We're making other people's lives better.
01:04:58.60
Mike
since
01:04:59.09
Bill
Yeah.
01:04:59.39
Mike
Yeah. a
01:05:02.31
Bill
Which is a crazy fucking concept.
01:05:03.70
Mike
Absolutely.
01:05:03.98
Bill
It's just a really crazy goddamn concept.
01:05:04.54
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah.
01:05:07.31
Bill
But, yeah, so anyhow, yeah i again, my grandson's a fucking trip. But, I mean, it is. I mean, you know, I i know he i know he loves me.
01:05:12.74
Mike
instance
01:05:15.50
Bill
you know, I know he does.
01:05:16.04
Mike
Right.
01:05:16.30
Bill
i mean, clear. But, yeah, when Brian's, he's like, no, dude, he he loves you.
01:05:19.41
Mike
so
01:05:20.10
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, I don't know.
01:05:20.92
Mike
Right. And he actually likes you.
01:05:24.70
Bill
Yeah, he actually likes me and just has has a good time with me. And, you know, like when Kimmy left and even when Brian left for work, he's like, <unk>s like I miss my mommy.
01:05:27.89
Mike
Yeah.
01:05:33.49
Bill
I'm like, ah, she'll be back a little later. he's like, Okay.
01:05:36.29
Mike
yeah
01:05:37.77
Bill
You know, and then he'd be like, he's like, he'd hear something. He's like, is mommy home? i Like, don't know. She'll be back. She'll be back tomorrow. I said, I said, you know, I said, your daddy be home, you know, after work. He's like, after work? And I said, yeah, just a little little while. I said, he'll be home.
01:05:49.28
Bill
He said, oh, okay. Then he's cool with it, you know?
01:05:50.35
Mike
Yeah, right.
01:05:52.19
Bill
But die thankfully he's not like, fuck man, I got to spend the day with this goddamn guy.
01:05:55.79
Mike
Yeah, right. yeah
01:05:59.86
Bill
ah Okay. So back to some of the some sobriety stuff that I wrote down.
01:06:04.48
Mike
Well, what's all your fucking ailments? Yeah.
01:06:06.76
Bill
Oh, shit, I forgot about that. Okay. you want real Real quickly. so um Okay, so I've had a, um well, when i when I first started this whole trip, when I ended up from Albuquerque all the way through, whether it was dry air or altitude, my sinuses were fucked up the entire time.
01:06:10.14
Mike
Oh, I don't want it. I don't fucking care. But you mentioned it several times, so maybe somebody wants to hear about it.
01:06:28.03
Mike
right.
01:06:28.66
Bill
And the altitude is what really was was killing me. But even coming out of it, again, drier weather and all that stuff, blah, blah, blah. So by the time I got back here, it just, uh, I, I think it was like a mild cold coming on.
01:06:39.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:06:40.07
Bill
So I've had kind of a mild cold for a couple of weeks now. and there's some days, I mean, I could just, I could feel it and I'm just like kind of worn out type of thing.
01:06:46.68
Mike
Right.
01:06:47.02
Bill
Um, so that was, that was number one. So, you know, sometimes sleeping and not being able to breathe real well, that's number one. A week or so ago, I was getting in the shower and, you know, most people slip while they're in the shower.
01:06:58.77
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
01:06:59.45
Bill
Oh, no, I slipped getting into the shower. OK, so one foot right foot planted outside on a rug, non-movable leg, of course.
01:07:06.65
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:07:06.88
Bill
And then the leg going in the left leg slipped in the tub because, i you know, I had the water running and stuff, whatever.
01:07:12.16
Mike
Right.
01:07:13.02
Bill
I don't know. I've been taking a shower for probably, what, 50 years and never slipped going into the shower ever.
01:07:16.00
Mike
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ahha
01:07:19.95
Bill
But I did. And my leg, um not the shin, but to the like the inside of my like right side of my shin, um hit the edge of the tub hard, like crushed into it.
01:07:32.09
Bill
And I'm like, oh, that's going to leave a fucking mark, you know, type of thing. It hurt. And I get out and, you know, drying off. No big deal. Get in. I go to put my socks on and I got like half a golf ball on my leg, you know, and I'm like, well, that's kind of fucked up.
01:07:41.52
Mike
o
01:07:43.83
Bill
And literally that's what it looked like. It looked like half a golf ball, a bump on there. I'm like, holy shit. And, um you know, again, I'm like, well, that kind of fucking hurts. So what's happened with that is over the last week or so.
01:07:57.09
Bill
it's you know It's kind of puffed up. It's bruised. It's a little bit bruised, but then now it's, you know as it does, it drains down. so i mean It's drained into my ankle. so i have like ah My right ankle is like a cankle right now.
01:08:08.78
Bill
so so I have that, you know and that's been a little bit painful. but When I was leaving Appleton, I went to grab my backpack with my left hand, and I had my computer in there, some other stuff, so a little bit of weight to it.
01:08:20.61
Bill
But i I was facing the counter and reached over, so arms stretched out to lift my backpack with a little bit of weight, and I pulled something to my shoulder and to the point where as soon as I did it, I'm like, oh, that's going to be a problem, you know?
01:08:28.52
Mike
Mm.
01:08:34.12
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:08:35.07
Bill
So that was Sunday morning. Okay. um Either Sunday night or Monday is kind of when it started kicking in. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday could barely sleep that I got this cold. So I could barely breathe.
01:08:47.81
Bill
My fucking leg hurts. So I get, you know, doing this sort of thing.
01:08:50.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:08:50.99
Bill
And I'm like, Jesus got it. My shoulder was, I mean, really bad to the point where was at Monday night. I think I woke up every hour, hour and a half. So I couldn't figure out where, what side to sleep on, you know?
01:09:03.21
Bill
And I'm on the left side, which is what I hurt. Sometimes I would tighten it up right side. i'm okay, but I get to do a certain way and pull the arm up certain, because my range of motion was like zero, you know? And it was all fucked up. So I'm just like, I'm like, this is a goddamn mess, but here's what I figured out.
01:09:18.50
Bill
So, well, for two things, here's the sobriety part of it. If I were a pill taker, I'm,
01:09:24.22
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:09:24.93
Bill
And I wasn't sober.
01:09:26.50
Mike
Yeah.
01:09:26.66
Bill
I would have fucking pilled up through this whole shoulder thing.
01:09:28.85
Mike
Oh, yeah.
01:09:29.58
Bill
I mean, bad fucking pain. the The leg was more uncomfortable than anything.
01:09:33.28
Mike
You know, vodka helps with that, too.
01:09:35.20
Bill
Yeah. Or I would have boozed up. Yeah. i mean, but you know what i mean? It was, it was fucking painful and I've, I've had it happen before, but you did too. You and I talked about a shoulder thing.
01:09:43.06
Mike
Yep.
01:09:44.05
Bill
Um, you know, so I'm like, I'm like, yeah Jesus Christ, I would almost give anything for a, for taking a pill right now to make this goddamn thing go away. So I just want to sleep.
01:09:51.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:09:52.08
Bill
I haven't slept good like a week, you know?
01:09:53.58
Mike
Right.
01:09:54.14
Bill
Um, but, uh, but here's the other thing too, is that and these are things that I knew, but it's just kind of the fact that I had three things going on at the same time.
01:10:01.71
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.
01:10:02.27
Bill
Um,
01:10:02.55
Mike
I don't
01:10:03.10
Bill
If I'm not careful, um I injure easily. That part I know.
01:10:06.52
Mike
know.
01:10:07.78
Bill
But here's the thing, though. Like today, um i still got a little bit of a twinge in my shoulder. But today is like the first day that I'm i'm pretty good. You know, um I still I'm going to I don't want to lift things.
01:10:15.12
Mike
ahha
01:10:17.46
Bill
I'm going to be careful with it. So I injure easily if I'm not careful, but I heal quickly. OK, which is fucking amazing to me, because how do I injure so quickly when
01:10:22.30
Mike
see
01:10:27.60
Bill
but I also heal so quickly. I don't get it. You know, i mean, it's like the, the old guy in me, I get, I understand why I get hurt easily, but um yeah I don't have, I don't know.
01:10:30.58
Mike
i don't know
01:10:35.19
Mike
Yeah.
01:10:37.50
Bill
i just, I, it, it baffles me the fact that I heal up so quickly. and I'm grateful for it. Don't get me fucking wrong.
01:10:42.63
Mike
see
01:10:43.68
Bill
um But yeah, it just, ah I don't, I don't understand. I just heal. I heal pretty easily. Yeah.
01:10:48.88
Mike
yeah Well, I'd call you grandpa, but you know, apparently that doesn't do anything. Cause you know, you got called grandpa like a thousand times over the weekend and
01:10:57.72
Bill
Oh yeah. yeah
01:10:58.79
Mike
Right. Yeah. You know, yeah didn't that didn't make any sense to you. So there's no point in me calling you grandpa, grandpa.
01:11:04.89
Bill
Right. Right. But no, it's just, that yeah, it was, it's been a while. I've had all, I've had a cold. I've, you know, had a bump on a leg. I've, I've had a shoulder, but they have all three. I'm like, I'm a fucking mess.
01:11:15.43
Bill
But I mean, you know, it just, it, it all healed back up.
01:11:15.75
Mike
Yep.
01:11:18.34
Bill
The only good thing I'm not going anywhere this weekend. It's not till next weekend. don't have to worry about lifting shit to, you know, to load my car. Cause then the other thing I'm like, I hope my hope this whole ankle thing heals up by next weekend.
01:11:29.22
Bill
Cause I want to, there's some trails I want to go on, you know, that, that first Sunday that I'm in Wisconsin. Yeah.
01:11:34.05
Mike
Right.
01:11:34.64
Bill
you know And I'm like, i can walk. It's not painful. It's just it's cankled up a little bit. you know
01:11:39.20
Mike
Oh, yeah. Yep.
01:11:40.88
Bill
So, yeah, I don't know.
01:11:40.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:11:42.08
Bill
It's just, ah again, from the sobriety standpoint, I know what I would if I was drinking, I would have just I would have drank myself into some sort of fucking oblivion you know to to make the pain go away.
01:11:49.72
Mike
no yeah
01:11:51.29
Bill
And then I would have felt like fucking crap the next day.
01:11:51.57
Mike
know
01:11:54.00
Bill
Um, but I mean, seriously, I've just been so goddamn tired because I haven't had a solid night's sleep. And last night I was okay. Uh, was probably the best night's sleep I've had in a week. Um, you know, but, uh, again, I could barely put my jacket on. I'm, I'm like, I, I wore a short sleeve shirt two days, you know, and just put a, put a zippered sweatshirt on because I'm like, I don't even want to try to put a long sleeve shirt on. I can't get my, i can't get my shoulder in a long sleeve shirt.
01:12:16.80
Bill
Yeah.
01:12:17.50
Mike
58. Uh-huh.
01:12:18.85
Bill
So, but yeah, you see kids, that's what you get when you're, when you're 56 and how old are you, Mike? 50 what?
01:12:25.08
Mike
Yeah,
01:12:27.62
Bill
I mean, laugh at you. Cause I'm only a couple of years behind you. So, um but yeah, these are the, the fun part, but you know what we have the, we should be grateful.
01:12:29.95
Mike
ah huh
01:12:36.49
Bill
We get to be 56 and 58, right?
01:12:38.96
Mike
yeah right.
01:12:40.39
Bill
hey
01:12:40.69
Mike
Sure as hell weren't getting this far the way we were going.
01:12:43.60
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So all in all, not, I'm not bitching about it. It's just, ah I'm like, I'm like, fuck, I was so, the pain was to the point where I was swearing at it. You know, I was swearing at my pain. You motherfucker.
01:12:54.60
Mike
yeah
01:12:55.49
Bill
Stop fucking hurting. I couldn't get rid of it, but yeah, I'm getting better. So yeah, I heal quickly and I injure easily and quill quickly.
01:13:04.35
Mike
Wow.
01:13:05.39
Bill
I can't speak either.
01:13:05.34
Mike
How about your queefing?
01:13:06.69
Bill
yeah i I haven't done that. breely No, no quake going on there.
01:13:09.24
Mike
Hey, I've got one of those too.
01:13:10.76
Bill
I have a penis. My daddy had a penis.
01:13:14.94
Mike
hey i've got one of those too
01:13:16.60
Bill
Hey, hey i got one too. All right. So um yeah, now I've covered my grandson, my ailments, um my penis.
01:13:22.72
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:13:23.76
Bill
that We both have penises, right?
01:13:24.42
Mike
Right.
01:13:25.48
Bill
I think.
01:13:25.38
Mike
Yes. Yep. All
01:13:28.85
Bill
All right, so back to a couple ah couple of sober things. Oh, I have one news article I want to read you to. and
01:13:33.14
Mike
right.
01:13:33.46
Bill
Nothing to do with sobriety, but I can kind of liken it back to how we would feel if something like that had happened to us in early sobriety. so
01:13:40.19
Mike
All right.
01:13:41.06
Bill
All right, um I'm just going to read one of these ones. Do you feel that your actions out in the world are a direct reflection of Alcoholics Anonymous? um So if you act good, does that reflect good on AA? If you act bad, does that reflect bad on AA?
01:13:57.47
Mike
Absolutely.
01:13:57.59
Bill
Okay. Okay.
01:13:59.25
Mike
You know, I mean, you know, clearly, um you know, nine times out of 10 people have been more than that.
01:13:59.40
Bill
So.
01:14:06.75
Mike
ah People don't know that, you know, we're acting like a decent human being because of Alcoholics Anonymous.
01:14:12.88
Bill
Right.
01:14:12.94
Mike
um They just go, that guy's not a dick. of
01:14:16.21
Bill
but
01:14:17.03
Mike
Little do they know. Oh, yes, I am. I just I don't allow myself to act that way anymore. um But yes, oh, ah absolutely. I mean, I'm always conscious of it when I'm in a meeting or, you know, whatever, some function, a sober function. um Yeah, you know, I'm very aware of the fact that I, you know, I'm a reflection. I'm a representative of, you know, Alcoholics Anonymous, man. and And I better fucking not act like too big of a dick because, you know, yeah.
01:14:49.34
Bill
Right.
01:14:51.46
Mike
You know, I mean, we've all seen people in the rooms that are clearly fucking assholes.
01:14:57.55
Bill
right
01:14:57.51
Mike
And it's like, fuck, what are you doing here, dude? You know, why why why are you saying you're a part of this thing when you're acting like that? You know, that's it's awful. I don't want to be that guy.
01:15:09.28
Mike
So, yeah, absolutely. When we're we're in whatever capacity, you know, saying we're a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, we better fucking act like it.
01:15:20.20
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's just, a you know, I think one of the reasons I wrote that down and I thought for, you know, for years, you know, with the whole, and again, anonymity, we've talked about that and anonymity is not calling somebody else out.
01:15:33.46
Bill
I mean, anyone can say, um you know, they're sober and in this and that, but, um,
01:15:34.21
Mike
Right.
01:15:38.66
Bill
you know, for years seeing, you know, celebrities and that sort of thing get on and, oh, I'm this and I'm that and blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, somebody, obviously somebody relapses and you see the the public, I'll say, quote unquote, says, oh, well, you know, this this high level celebrity was into this and this didn't work, you know, so it's that person's fault or the the group's fault, not whatever, which, I mean, I don't agree with, but I mean, it's, that's that's blaming the group for an individual's
01:15:49.67
Mike
who
01:15:57.23
Mike
Right.
01:16:00.31
Mike
Right. the
01:16:07.23
Bill
problem versus what we're trying to do.
01:16:08.00
Mike
Right.
01:16:09.27
Bill
We're trying to enhance the group by making the group look good.
01:16:12.51
Mike
Right. Yeah.
01:16:14.53
Bill
Right? Yes? No?
01:16:15.34
Mike
Yeah. oh No, no, exactly. Right. I mean, yeah. You know, well, that's ah clearly anyone who, you know, right. Somebody, whatever, high profile, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So remember bell call. I said, I miss blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they fucking relapse.
01:16:29.76
Mike
Um, you know, clearly if if you're an outsider and you don't know what AA is about yeah and you go, well, I guess that shit doesn't work. Um, yeah, you you don't have any concept of what it's about. you know, who cares what you think?
01:16:45.00
Mike
Um, but, uh, again, understandable. Um, yes, we have to be a reflection. That's why we have to be careful also, you know, you know, uh,
01:16:56.58
Mike
That's where the anonymity comes in and the traditions of, you know, don't fucking, yeah, unless you're solid, um shut your fucking mouth.
01:17:06.87
Bill
right Right.
01:17:07.25
Mike
You know, yeah. You know, yeah I've been sober for three months. Blah, blah, blah. and You know, shut up, man. touch You know, we didn't start squawking about this shit till we were, what, 12 years sober?
01:17:20.65
Mike
Right.
01:17:21.82
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, openly, you know, in microphones and stuff like that, I guess is, is, yeah is, is open and, you know, probably.
01:17:25.73
Mike
right Exactly. Build your fucking foundation.
01:17:30.75
Bill
Yeah. and you know, and again, we've we've been honest about it, too, that I mean, neither one of us is that we've said it.
01:17:33.85
Mike
who
01:17:36.51
Bill
We just said it earlier in this in this particular episode. You know, we're not fixed.
01:17:39.76
Mike
Right.
01:17:40.44
Bill
We're not. I mean, you said that we were talking about the reading, you know, you're not done.
01:17:41.12
Mike
No. is
01:17:43.76
Bill
You're not fixed. You're not, you know, you're not just going to lay back and rest on whatever laurels, whatever laurels are. You're not going to rest on them.
01:17:50.49
Mike
Right.
01:17:51.94
Bill
But, um yeah, it's – but is that that is a great way to look at it, though, is that, um I mean, we are – even if somebody doesn't doesn't know, I mean, the the main point is that we were always taught that when – when somebody meets us or when we're out in, in the world, we might be the only vision of even just say sobriety or recovery that anyone ever, ever comes across.
01:18:14.10
Mike
Right. Yeah.
01:18:16.63
Bill
And we should, you know, give that person a good, obviously a good view or a good image of of what this thing is all about, you know, um, attraction rather than than promotion, you know?
01:18:21.17
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
01:18:27.39
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. yeah Right. I mean, it's all about being a good boy and doing the next right thing and all that shit. It's all part of it. Right. So, yeah, you know, we are we are a reflection. We're not necessarily representation, but we are absolutely a reflection. And we better make sure that that image that we're reflecting is a positive one.
01:18:50.71
Bill
Right. Yeah. That's a, that's a good point. Yeah. Cause we're not out there standing on the rooftops. You know, we're not using again, not promoting.
01:18:58.75
Mike
We're too fucking old to be climbing up on roofs.
01:19:01.39
Bill
That's, that's true. The proverbial, the, the imaginary rooftop.
01:19:06.06
Mike
Right.
01:19:06.42
Bill
If there's, didn't even want to get ah
01:19:07.07
Mike
You're going fucking fall.
01:19:08.96
Bill
Yeah, exactly. You know, I, I slipped, I slipped getting into a goddamn bathtub.
01:19:09.99
Mike
ha Right.
01:19:12.87
Bill
i you
01:19:13.33
Mike
Don't climb up on a roof.
01:19:13.65
Bill
don't need to, I used to, yeah i told you about that when Dawn and I had her house, it was, and I say just, you know, a ranch house, but and I'd be up there and I'm on the fucking roof and she's, you know, she's pregnant and she's going for a walk.
01:19:16.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:19:26.60
Bill
And she's like, you know, you should, be you should be up there. i like, ah, I'm fine. Yeah.
01:19:30.42
Mike
I'm fine. Throw me up a beer.
01:19:33.05
Bill
Yeah, and shit, my i had the we had um neighbors. Gary and Audrey were our neighbors next to us.
01:19:38.42
Mike
Yeah.
01:19:39.80
Bill
and And I bought this, I think I told you about that when I bought that. It was a a chainsaw, a pole saw that put out 15, 20 feet.
01:19:47.00
Mike
Right.
01:19:47.13
Bill
That's what I'd cut branches down. But you know, you're i'm i'm on that I'm on the roof with this fucking 20 feet out, you know, cutting branches with a goddamn chainsaw, right?
01:19:53.99
Mike
this Sure.
01:19:55.97
Bill
Yeah. I remember Audrey, our neighbor, and she, know, they're probably in their seventies and, um, nice people, you know, but she, she'd be standing in her driveway, obviously seeing me up on the roof.
01:20:01.11
Mike
Uh-huh. Sure.
01:20:06.43
Bill
She's like, she's like, she's like, you, you okay up there? I'm like, yeah, I'm just doing this. And she's, you know, me, she's like, where's Dawn?
01:20:13.43
Mike
Yeah, right. You fucking idiot. Uh-huh.
01:20:16.31
Bill
Yeah. She's like, why? I know Dawn wouldn't let you do it. I'm like, ah, she took a walk. She's just fine. It's fine.
01:20:22.67
Mike
It's fine.
01:20:23.10
Bill
I,
01:20:23.19
Mike
It's all fine. Everything's fine. This is fine.
01:20:26.08
Bill
yeah I never,
01:20:26.37
Mike
My life is fine. Everything's wonderful. Leave me alone.
01:20:30.84
Bill
I, I never fell off the roof. I mean, I, you know, I, I, I gotta to give myself that.
01:20:32.97
Mike
Yet. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Nope.
01:20:36.14
Bill
And I was, I was, i was, yeah, yeah.
01:20:36.63
Mike
yet
01:20:38.45
Bill
I don't have a, I, well, you remember mom's house in Medina, right?
01:20:42.69
Mike
right
01:20:42.83
Bill
Obviously, you know, pitched roof and different levels and whatever.
01:20:43.54
Mike
yeah yeah
01:20:46.06
Bill
And, um, I remember, and this was even, this was after I was sober.
01:20:49.64
Mike
sure
01:20:49.78
Bill
You know, and she's like, oh, whatever it was, you know, um can you go up there and check? so I'm like, not a fucking chance. You know, like, I'm not going up there. She's like, really?
01:20:58.05
Mike
no
01:20:58.55
Bill
Why? I'm like, I'm not climbing on the roof. I'm like, I'm not. There's that your roof is whatever. She went ahead and did it, put the ladder up there and climbed up and did whatever it was. She wanted to check something.
01:21:07.54
Mike
God. Uh-huh.
01:21:08.96
Bill
And, you know, she did it while, you know, of course, nobody was around.
01:21:11.71
Mike
Yeah, right.
01:21:12.14
Bill
I'm like, why the fuck would you do that?
01:21:12.39
Mike
Even better.
01:21:13.52
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, but, uh, I'm like, I was sober and I'm like that climbing up there and she was, God knows how old, you know, whatever it was, you know, 70 years old.
01:21:18.60
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.
01:21:22.20
Bill
And she's up there in a fucking roof and like, yeah, that's, that was mom.
01:21:25.28
Mike
Yep, it was.
01:21:26.93
Bill
That was mom for us.
01:21:26.95
Mike
yeah it was
01:21:29.31
Bill
But, okay, so um hang on, let me grab my phone here. Let me, when I get into this article, I want to, I think I'm going to send you a text message. So um I believe, and somebody, think it was on Facebook, don't think was one of our Cleveland friends.
01:21:45.24
Bill
Have you had any, or even any of the winters around by you, um any water main breaks in your neighborhood? Anything like that that? Do you get a lot of them in that area?
01:21:55.39
Bill
Do you know, like ah water mains?
01:21:56.33
Mike
I mean, yeah, yeah, course.
01:21:59.96
Bill
Okay. Cause I remember like when Don and I were to, were together, the neighborhood that we lived in, it was like the first year we were there and I'll tell you a story about it in a minute, but I want to send you, I want to send you this picture. um There was a water main break in Milwaukee.
01:22:14.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:22:15.00
Bill
And basically what happened was, hang on one second. um I can, I can talk and save at the same time. I'm talking to myself.
01:22:22.10
Mike
Can you?
01:22:22.56
Bill
but I think, I think, um but there was a water main break in this main part of town and,
01:22:23.17
Mike
yeah sure? ha, ha, ha.
01:22:28.24
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:22:29.42
Bill
All over the street. So the cars that were parked in the street, and that's what I'm going to send you a picture of, um literally got stuck in the ice.
01:22:37.51
Mike
Yeah, that just happened in Detroit.
01:22:37.64
Bill
Okay. Did it really? Okay.
01:22:40.59
Mike
Yeah.
01:22:40.82
Bill
In all the years, um i've never I've never heard of that happening before, and I just texted you the picture or texted you the picture.
01:22:47.12
Mike
Yes, you did.
01:22:47.51
Bill
um So the the bottom line with this article is pretty simple. The water main broke in an area where there's a lot of street parking, and these cars that were parked on the street, and literally you can see, I mean, these these cars were, the ice was up to, you know, the hubcap, you know, or the rim area.
01:23:05.93
Mike
Right.
01:23:07.22
Bill
So it's not like you could just... you know, drive out, you're stuck.
01:23:12.32
Mike
Right.
01:23:13.17
Bill
So um two things that the first question was, I mean, obviously these people come out, they got to go to work, you know?
01:23:21.26
Mike
Right.
01:23:21.66
Bill
And then, I mean, so it's like, what do you do? Okay. So you take an Uber, you take the bus, whatever. Now here's the, here's the thing. So depending on, and I was thinking back, there's two areas that ah you and I lived since we've been sober, that this could have happened, Cecilia and Baltic, both street parking,
01:23:33.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.
01:23:36.29
Mike
Right.
01:23:38.53
Bill
Both on the roads. We both had to park on the roads like that.
01:23:39.62
Mike
Yup.
01:23:41.84
Bill
um i don't know. I mean, I didn't have, well, at that time, was there was there Uber around 10 years ago? 15? 15? team
01:23:47.73
Mike
um Yeah, maybe.
01:23:49.65
Bill
Was there? I mean, I don't know how I would have gotten to work in fucking Fairlawn, you know, if my car was frozen to the street.
01:23:53.84
Mike
Right.
01:23:56.10
Bill
um And this was ah this was when the the temperatures in Milwaukee were um either in single digits or below zero, obviously, with wind chills and stuff. So wasn't like this shit was melting away.
01:24:06.90
Bill
So obviously everyone's like, you know, on the city, like what the fuck are you going to do? What do you get these out of here? This and that. They ended up and part of it, I think, was just melting away. The story kind of faded a little bit.
01:24:17.49
Mike
Right. huh
01:24:17.82
Bill
But they ended up, you've seen the, like the backhoes and things like that with the big, like pick on them that breaks up concrete.
01:24:24.83
Mike
right
01:24:25.57
Bill
Apparently they brought those in to try to break around, but then they're talking about this whole thing in the morning. So they're like, they're like, how can they do that? what What's going to, okay. So you break up a couple of big pieces of ice. How do they get underneath? How do they do everything?
01:24:37.63
Bill
What do they have to do? Tow each car, lift it? I'm like, I'm like, I don't even understand how this does it. And I'm like, what do they bringing big space heater? So one of the guys, like he goes, I tried that when I built my house. It was a bunch of snow shoveled into where it was going to be the basement.
01:24:49.80
Bill
He goes, I tried to put one of these cyclone heaters down there that might melt this power of snow or pile of snow. He said, I let it run for like three hours.
01:24:55.98
Mike
Right.
01:24:57.77
Bill
It didn't do anything because it was so fucking cold out, you know? Um, so, I mean, I think it was just a matter of mother nature taking its time, but I don't know what, what you and I would have done at that time.
01:25:09.10
Bill
I would not, even if Uber was around like today, you know, I don't think I'd have $50 a day to get back and forth to work at any point in my life.
01:25:12.01
Mike
Right.
01:25:17.49
Mike
right
01:25:17.65
Bill
You know what i mean?
01:25:20.39
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, Jesus Christ. And could you imagine calling into work? Uh, you're not coming in. Why my car, my car is literally frozen to the fucking street.
01:25:31.85
Mike
Exactly.
01:25:33.63
Bill
But to no, I mean, I thought about that too, like two things, you know, I mean, number one, um, what the fuck do you do? And then number two, I mean, God, I mean, maybe that'd be a break if it were while we were drinking and be like, Oh, look that. couple of days off.
01:25:44.82
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
01:25:45.06
Bill
I ain't got
01:25:45.70
Mike
Absolutely. I just sent you a picture from Detroit from last week. Yeah.
01:25:49.89
Bill
Oh, this oh my God. So that's, that's actually like up to the fucking bumper.
01:25:55.85
Mike
yeah
01:25:56.90
Bill
Is that snow or is that, was, was it?
01:25:58.30
Mike
No, that's ice. That's water in the street that froze.
01:26:01.82
Bill
Oh, fuck me. Okay. So yeah.
01:26:03.38
Mike
Yep. yeah Yeah, Chris sent me the...
01:26:04.37
Bill
Wow.
01:26:06.48
Mike
Actually, she had seen a TikTok video about it. And, yeah. Yeah, just happened.
01:26:12.88
Bill
I, again, i think I would, I, what, what else could you do? But, um, I mean, well, you and I know there's, you know, powerless and all that shit, but, um, you know, just, I don't even know, I don't even know what the fuck I would do.
01:26:16.25
Mike
Yeah.
01:26:19.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.
01:26:23.45
Bill
You know, this, I mean, nothing to do with, you know, being sober or being drunk. I suppose if I was, I was drunk, I could again, take a couple of days off, but, uh, um, you know, that's a, that's a good point.
01:26:26.98
Mike
Right.
01:26:30.90
Mike
Well, you got to get to the liquor store, though. What the fuck, man? Well, that's what ice skates are for.
01:26:34.60
Bill
Yeah.
01:26:36.47
Mike
Snowshoes.
01:26:38.45
Bill
Yeah, so I would, I'd walk to the liquor store. I wouldn't want to fucking walk to work, but yeah, I think I might walk to the liquor store.
01:26:42.71
Mike
citizens
01:26:45.42
Mike
Yeah.
01:26:47.21
Bill
But no, that just kind of blew my mind. and Seriously, I thought about that. like, I don't know what the fuck, I have no idea what the fuck I would do um in that circumstance if if that happened, you know?
01:26:56.74
Mike
Right.
01:26:57.96
Bill
No idea. Oh, last last question. So setting aside water main breaks, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees. I wrote that down as a side note here at one point.
01:27:07.43
Mike
Uh-huh. Let's wrap up with that.
01:27:09.62
Bill
Yeah, and that's what I thought. What do you, I mean, any any thoughts on the nominees or anyone in particular that good, bad, or indifferent?
01:27:16.89
Mike
Um, I mean, you know, it's pretty much a model math list. Um, yeah, I don't know. There's now there's nobody this year. I give a fuck about, i mean, know what?
01:27:27.44
Mike
Black crows, I think are on the list, you know, that's cool.
01:27:30.51
Bill
Right.
01:27:30.44
Mike
Um, um, Yeah, I don't know. ah Once again, okay, here we go.
01:27:37.86
Bill
hey
01:27:38.56
Mike
Motorhead is not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They were totally influential. They totally did, you know, whatever. They started every fucking show with, we are Motorhead and we play rock and roll.
01:27:51.66
Mike
And then they kick in. That's right. How obvious do you need to fucking it be? Until Motorhead gets in, i don't give a fuck.
01:28:00.60
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I think you, I think you mentioned that. um I'm pretty sure that we had talked about, I know we talked, the reason I brought it up is because I know you and I have talked about um the rock and roll hall of fame and where is the, Oh yeah, there's the nominees.
01:28:13.95
Bill
And in the black crows were the, were the main one. Cause I was looking for, I had a picture on there. um i mean, other ones, I mean, there's, I'm just thinking of chubby checker. I was kind of surprised he wasn't in there, but they, they, they were talking about him.
01:28:25.17
Mike
Right? but Whatever, man.
01:28:26.51
Bill
They're like, well, he had,
01:28:27.04
Mike
He had two fucking hit songs.
01:28:28.91
Bill
they were going to say he mainly had one song.
01:28:31.13
Mike
Yeah.
01:28:31.63
Bill
I mean, the the twist.
01:28:31.54
Mike
Well, he had two.
01:28:32.51
Bill
Well, he had the,
01:28:32.76
Mike
Yeah, The Twist and Let's Twist Again.
01:28:34.85
Bill
Oh, yeah right.
01:28:36.35
Mike
Yeah, right.
01:28:38.45
Bill
Yeah. I mean, Soundgarden's on there. Okay. But I mean, the Black Crows, I was i was happy to see them nominated.
01:28:40.48
Mike
Uh-huh.
01:28:43.86
Mike
Sure.
01:28:44.09
Bill
But um but yeah, they i did I guess I think you brought that up the last time that yeah Motorhead. that's That's a good point.
01:28:49.82
Mike
Yeah.
01:28:50.46
Bill
you know And they were ah they talked to this this guy, and I think he is from Detroit.
01:28:51.18
Mike
Yeah.
01:28:54.96
Bill
His name is Gary Graff. um Every week on the the morning show, he's there. It's the guy who does their music report.
01:29:01.63
Mike
ahha
01:29:01.75
Bill
um And he said the same thing. They're like, ah they're like, well, whatever, whatever they were talking about, they're like, how could this, this person not be in yet? And he's like, well, he goes, you can say that about a lot of bands.
01:29:09.80
Mike
Right.
01:29:12.06
Bill
He goes, there's a lot of bands that not only are not, but should.
01:29:12.06
Mike
Right. oh yeah.
01:29:15.12
Bill
And there's a lot of bands that maybe should or or were, but maybe shouldn't have it ahead of whatever, you know?
01:29:18.86
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.
01:29:20.23
Bill
so he's like, he goes, it's, it he kind of gave it the old, it is what it is, you know, type of thing.
01:29:23.94
Mike
Yeah, right.
01:29:25.92
Bill
But anyhow, I just, I know you usually have ah an opinion about that. So just wanted to ask. Okay, so Motorhead, we know that.
01:29:31.15
Mike
Yeah, no. Yeah, right. that's That's the only one anymore that I, yeah. Until that happens, I don't care.
01:29:38.43
Bill
Okay, I mean, that that makes sense.
01:29:39.30
Mike
And then I don't care after it happens.
01:29:39.67
Bill
i
01:29:42.98
Bill
Well, that's, so when when you were down at the Rockets, that's when Alice Cooper got in, right? When you were sick that one time?
01:29:47.80
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah. but da
01:29:49.46
Bill
Right.
01:29:49.74
Mike
They had the live simulcast down there, right? Yeah, the induction ceremony was actually in New York that year, but yeah.
01:29:56.39
Bill
Right.
01:29:57.28
Mike
Yep.
01:29:58.55
Bill
Yeah, you were sick as a fucking dog and you ended up on TV downtown.
01:30:01.17
Mike
Yes, exactly. yep
01:30:05.13
Bill
All right. So on that note, yes, let's let's wrap up with that, Mike. Why don't we?
01:30:09.18
Mike
yeah All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it And now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, i can't find it
01:30:36.19
Mike
ah From the beginning of time till the ends of the earth. Always and eternally. Fuck you. Now it's time, kids. It is that time.
01:30:46.60
Mike
It is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to that gate with the sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.
01:30:57.59
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. and Keep fucking off forever.
01:31:05.72
Bill
I was laughing my ass off because I i knew i could tell you were looking for it.
01:31:07.92
Mike
pity
01:31:12.04
Bill
You know, cause you were, you were kind of, kind of dragging that first part out, which you never do. You don't drag out that, that one too much. And then you're like, I can't find it yeah Again, it's a program of honesty.
01:31:24.36
Bill
That's why I had to call myself buy myself out for missing our fucking anniversary.
01:31:24.59
Mike
It is.
01:31:27.57
Bill
And you had to call yourself out for not, not finding the end of your reading, but, uh, all right.
01:31:28.03
Mike
yepe
01:31:32.42
Bill
So, um, I don't know. I i don't think we get anything else. Oh, next week. Well, we're, we're recording on Thursday, but, uh,
01:31:36.15
Mike
Next week. Well, nope. Yeah, nobody cares.
01:31:39.85
Bill
Yeah, nobody cares, but I'm just saying next week, Saturday, as of Saturday, I'll be up in Wisconsin for 16 days. So, yeah, the week after that, I'll be i'll be coming to you live from Cheese Land.
01:31:46.27
Mike
Nice.
01:31:51.86
Mike
We are. Love
01:31:53.16
Bill
yeah All right. You know what? Enough. I think we're done, right?
01:31:56.51
Mike
you too. Bye.
01:31:58.12
Bill
All right. Love you, brother.
01:31:59.18
Mike
loveff you too
01:32:00.24
Bill
We'll talk soon.
01:32:01.34
Mike
i
01:32:02.58
Bill
Bye.
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