SoberNotMature - Episode 159 (BB's In A Boxcar)

00:00:01.92
Bill
Alright everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And I'm going to start off this episode with, I was thinking, okay, i know, I know what you're going to say.

00:00:12.64
Mike
Oh boy.

00:00:13.42
Bill
I yeah i ah expected it, that's why I just figured I'm like, I get it, i get it what you're thinking.

00:00:14.48
Mike
boy.

00:00:19.64
Bill
Probably everyone out there is thinking, but so... The normal folk, and we're recording on a Thursday, and rather than just kind of like saying, hey, you know, we're we're recording on a Thursday, um the normal folk out there call this day, you know, the drinking folk, you know, call it Thirsty Thursday, which yeah I suppose we could.

00:00:26.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:36.62
Bill
You probably got a water in front of you, maybe a tea. I've got some coffee and everyone's thirsty.

00:00:39.71
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:00:41.65
Bill
But I had a thought on what we could call when we record on Thursday night. So you ready?

00:00:48.40
Mike
All right.

00:00:50.00
Bill
c sober Thursday episode of sober, not mature.

00:00:51.22
Mike
Oh, Jesus.

00:00:55.91
Bill
I can't even say mature.

00:00:57.28
Mike
Jesus.

00:01:00.73
Mike
I'm going to need you to pee into this jar.

00:01:05.95
Bill
I figured I'd get a reaction like that, which is why I did it. So, but yeah, anyhow, so you have, you have plans tomorrow, going to some sort of sock hop or something like that tomorrow, huh?

00:01:15.56
Mike
Right.

00:01:16.71
Bill
yeah

00:01:16.97
Mike
Hootnanny.

00:01:18.17
Bill
A hoot nanny. Okay, so what's what's what's up with you and your shindig tomorrow night?

00:01:19.11
Mike
A shindig.

00:01:22.62
Bill
Tell Nice.

00:01:23.26
Mike
Well, um a friend of mine, an old friend of mine, um like literally 40-year-old friend, um is playing drums for a bit of a legend these days, Handsome Dick Manitoba from the Dictators, which means nothing to no one.

00:01:41.78
Bill
nice

00:01:43.71
Mike
um ah Very few of us. It means a lot. Anyway, um yeah, so my buddy Scotty Slam has been playing with Handsome Dick now for, God, probably getting close to a year. He plays in other bands, too. He's... ah He's been in Circus of Power. he play He's got a band called The Stoning. um He's been, yeah, playing forever. um He's been playing 40 years that I've known him.

00:02:08.28
Mike
That's how we met. was through rock and roll in good old Excremento, California. And, um yeah, and Christ, I haven't seen him in probably pretty close to fucking 30 years.

00:02:20.25
Bill
Oh, God, really?

00:02:20.61
Mike
um

00:02:20.90
Bill
Whoa.

00:02:21.17
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:02:21.99
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:02:22.18
Mike
You know, I mean, we've kept in touch on Facebook and, yeah, And whatever. But yeah, I mean, in person, whatever. i mean, pretty much since I left L.A., I haven't seen him.

00:02:32.86
Mike
So, ah yeah, it's going to be ah kind of cool. he You know, messaged me a while back and said, hey, man, we're we're coming through. We're playing. don't know. I think they're in Cincinnati or ah the other side of the river in Kentucky tonight.

00:02:45.03
Mike
um They'll be up in Detroit tomorrow, and then they're playing, I think, Pittsburgh on Saturday. i don't know. Anyway, but, you know, given the choice, I'm going to go home. So I'm going to Hamtramck, Michigan, ah the Polish capital of the world.

00:03:00.24
Mike
There it is. I had plenty of relatives who lived in Hamtramck. Yeah.

00:03:09.15
Mike
It's a little community in Detroit.

00:03:12.07
Bill
Nice.

00:03:12.16
Mike
ah Yeah. And so anyway, they're playing small spar there tomorrow night and I'm going up to hang out with them all.

00:03:18.38
Bill
Nice. And I, I, you mentioned it when we had, uh, I don't know, we at first started talking about this guy probably a month ago when you're like, ah, it's a month away, but you know, um, but I, and I forgot the whole thing.

00:03:25.84
Mike
Right.

00:03:28.37
Bill
As soon as you mentioned the band name, I remember that, but I, I didn't, I don't know if I remember that you were going up to Michigan, but that's kind of cool.

00:03:33.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:33.87
Bill
little road trip, huh? Nice.

00:03:34.93
Mike
Yeah. A little road trip going back to the homeland.

00:03:37.90
Bill
Very nice. Well, and the I mean, a lot of times it's, i don't know, we've had, we've had plenty of these, you know, ah different night recordings, but I think it's been, it's, it's usually been my fault, ah you know, because I,

00:03:45.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:47.96
Mike
Right. Yeah, usually. Well, because, you know, because I don't have a life.

00:03:51.54
Bill
Well, you do, but you'll you'll do a show or something like that. But, I mean, you've been kind enough when I've had to get up at, you know, some ungodly time or something like that, you know, kind of, you know, working with me a little bit.

00:04:01.62
Bill
And, you know, I think when I was in, i don't know, someplace getting together with someone, doing something.

00:04:01.98
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:06.09
Bill
Who knows what the fuck I was doing.

00:04:07.02
Mike
I don't know, man.

00:04:07.41
Bill
But...

00:04:07.82
Mike
I learned somewhere it's not all about me, so I tend to...

00:04:12.90
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? I mean, tomorrow I'm going up to Wisconsin, but I mean, I don't, I can't check in until three. I'm probably not even going to leave here until, know.

00:04:18.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:19.90
Bill
I'll probably leave at 10. I got to stop and get my mail and kick around and, you know on the way up there and take my time.

00:04:22.55
Mike
Right.

00:04:24.26
Bill
But yeah, tomorrow is actually one of the days when, you know, I don't need to, you know, necessarily leave at any weird time, but you know, fuck it.

00:04:24.67
Mike
Yep.

00:04:31.43
Mike
Right. Yeah, I mean, i'm shit, I'm not hitting the road until about noon because, yeah, same thing.

00:04:32.48
Bill
I don't care.

00:04:36.23
Mike
Can't get check into my room until 3, so yep.

00:04:39.06
Bill
Right.

00:04:40.21
Mike
Yep.

00:04:41.09
Bill
Yeah, well, that's cool, though. Well, nice. say Like I said, um I remembered, you know, that you were doing some sort of show, but I did not remember it was a Michigan thing. So that's cool, though.

00:04:49.96
Mike
Yup.

00:04:50.24
Bill
I mean, on top of that, I mean, I got not seeing some.

00:04:52.08
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:52.82
Bill
Is he is he still in L.A.?

00:04:55.20
Mike
Yeah. He still, yeah, he still lives in LA. Yeah. He's a Burbank.

00:04:57.39
Bill
OK.

00:04:58.56
Mike
I believe now he, he's got a big ass old house and he's always posting shit, you know, all these fucking rock stars hanging out in his house and shit. Yeah.

00:05:06.38
Bill
Oh, really?

00:05:06.76
Mike
You know? Oh yeah. Yeah. yeah I mean, he's, he's been there the entire time, you know, he's, he's actually, he's a New Jersey native,

00:05:08.48
Bill
ah

00:05:13.70
Mike
Um, and, uh, yeah, you know, parents moved Sacramento kind of like me and, uh, you know, we hooked up in the the scene there as much as it was.

00:05:21.76
Bill
Right.

00:05:22.62
Mike
And, uh, yeah, you know, we've been friends ever since and we all moved to Hollywood at the same time he stayed, I moved on.

00:05:29.90
Bill
right Well, that's cool though. I mean, again, that's, that's kind of fun. I think and now that I remember that, cause you were talking about that he might have some connections and things like that, but not that we necessarily have to talk about at the moment, but, but yeah, so that, that's cool.

00:05:41.59
Mike
Right. Oh yeah.

00:05:43.41
Bill
Okay.

00:05:44.09
Mike
yo

00:05:44.24
Bill
But yeah, speaking to that real quick, um that, that, that individual remember that the cool one that uh that had contacted us i don't know like a few weeks ago um about possibly coming on the the one that i agreed to yeah yeah the brother of the whatever so um think was like a week ago now or a handful of days ago now because i hadn't heard from the individual i don't know who she is whether she's a booking agent or whatever the case is but i'm like hey you know didn't hear anything yet then i still haven't heard anything so so so we'll see but uh yeah if um

00:05:54.88
Mike
ah bye Cool. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes.

00:06:05.85
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:06:10.46
Mike
Right.

00:06:14.00
Mike
Ah, okay.

00:06:17.67
Bill
I don't know. it's It's one of those things that, in that, it's happened to us a few times, you know, where we've had we've had individuals contact us and then, um who knows, maybe they actually just, again, we end up on a list and they're like, oh, this is a podcast.

00:06:23.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:32.49
Bill
And they start looking and they're like, well, it's small.

00:06:33.02
Mike
Right.

00:06:34.93
Bill
They could see that.

00:06:35.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:06:36.44
Bill
Or they start listening they're like, yeah, we don't, yeah what yeah we want nothing to do with that.

00:06:38.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:40.97
Bill
And and if it's if it's because we're a small podcast, I understand that.

00:06:44.59
Mike
Sure.

00:06:45.31
Bill
No, ah I have no issue with that whatsoever.

00:06:47.42
Mike
Right.

00:06:47.74
Bill
It's from the other thing. I actually appreciate that if they, if they don't want to be on here because they, because they listen to us and we're just, sitting they're like, fuck, we're that, I, that, that makes me feel good.

00:06:50.26
Mike
you seen

00:06:53.95
Mike
Right. ah

00:06:56.49
Bill
So.

00:06:57.24
Mike
Right. We're doing something.

00:06:58.52
Bill
yeah

00:06:59.32
Mike
Whether it's right or wrong, we we're definitely individual and we have a style, if you will.

00:06:59.83
Bill
yeah

00:07:05.16
Mike
So, sure. Right.

00:07:06.30
Bill
Right.

00:07:06.36
Mike
And if it doesn't match up with whatever the hell they're trying to do, cool

00:07:10.53
Bill
Well, and, you know, we've we've talked about that, too, that, um I mean, there was and there was a time, but admittedly, for for me, especially in the beginning, where I was so focused on, you know, the number and the growth and this and that.

00:07:20.89
Mike
he

00:07:21.86
Bill
And still, I mean, I'd love to see us, ah you know, grow. I mean, I know you would, too.

00:07:24.82
Mike
Right.

00:07:25.26
Bill
But, um you know, finally, it got down to the point where, you know what, I mean, it's like, I...

00:07:25.73
Mike
Right.

00:07:30.61
Bill
I appreciate the fact that I know you do too of, I mean, the, the size of the podcast, the size of the audience and that sort of thing is really not important. Yes. We've talked about, you know, the people that hopefully that, you know, that we've got good, solid people and I think loyal, loyal followers, loyal listeners, and that's fine.

00:07:47.11
Mike
Right.

00:07:47.36
Bill
It's a nice, nice tight group, which is kind of how you and I are to begin with anyhow, you know, so there's that, you know, but on top of that too, is that I like the fact that we don't have to fucking answer to anyone.

00:07:51.39
Mike
he

00:07:58.98
Mike
Absolutely.

00:08:01.48
Bill
You know, and that's that egotistical, alcoholic, whatever, but that's a piece of me that I just, I really appreciate that that freedom. You know, I don't...

00:08:08.91
Mike
so yeah. Well, I mean, it's it's fucking punk rock, man. You know, we're doing it the way we want to do it and We're responsible for all of it. And it's fucking great, man.

00:08:17.55
Bill
right

00:08:17.74
Mike
Independent. Yelp.

00:08:19.08
Bill
Yeah, yeah. People are like, oh, you should do this. No, we're not going to do it ever. You know, we're we're not going to do that.

00:08:22.94
Mike
Now.

00:08:24.33
Bill
We're not going to do what you want us to do, damn it. We're not going to be who you want us to be, man.

00:08:28.40
Mike
That's right. Nope.

00:08:30.69
Bill
Because you know what? Either, either again, we'll, we'll stay, we'll stay as we are until we fade away or, you know, who knows? Maybe we'll grow, but if it happens, it happens organically. So.

00:08:40.14
Mike
Absolutely.

00:08:41.25
Bill
People don't like it. Fuck them. That's all I got to say.

00:08:42.80
Mike
Right.

00:08:43.89
Bill
yeah All right. So, but the thing that we do like to do and the thing that I think, I think helps other people and the thing that, uh, you know, we're doing for other people and ourselves is guess what a reading, right?

00:08:50.91
Mike
Right.

00:08:56.13
Mike
Sure.

00:08:57.01
Bill
Do we have, do we have a reading even though it's, even though it's sober Thursday?

00:09:02.51
Mike
Keep that shit up and no, we won't. Right.

00:09:04.59
Bill
Okay, sorry about that. I apologize.

00:09:06.45
Mike
Please.

00:09:07.18
Bill
i take i take all that back. I could be punished. I don't want everyone else to be punished. that's

00:09:11.01
Mike
right please

00:09:11.71
Bill
My fault, everyone. My fault, everyone.

00:09:12.89
Mike
yeah um Yeah, we we have a reading. um This was from Keep It Simple from um a couple days ago.

00:09:18.06
Bill
good

00:09:22.88
Mike
um Reddit went, yeah, that'll do. So I guess this will do. ah March 3rd. But the alcoholic will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge.

00:09:35.81
Mike
The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. Our program says three things are more important than knowing ourselves. First, admitting we have no control over our addiction.

00:09:49.39
Mike
Second, believing in a higher power or power greater than ourselves. And third, turning our lives over to the care of that higher power. Knowing ourselves makes our lives better in recovery, but it does not keep us sober.

00:10:04.94
Mike
Sobriety starts with the surrender to our higher power. We now know that we need the faith and strength we get from a higher power or power greater than ourselves.

00:10:16.53
Mike
We also need the support of others in our program. Prayer for the day. Higher power. Thank you for my sobriety today. Teach me what I need to know about myself to do your will today.

00:10:30.96
Mike
Action for the day. ah Today i will talk with my sponsor about the change in my spirit that keeps me sober.

00:10:41.05
Bill
The change in my spirit, or or we'll start with you, the change in your spirit, Mike.

00:10:46.14
Mike
yes s s

00:10:48.61
Bill
um

00:10:49.46
Mike
The change in my underwear.

00:10:49.74
Bill
a Right. My spirit. So um i don't know. I mean, I get what they mean, and I'm sure you kind of get what they mean.

00:10:57.95
Mike
Right.

00:10:58.78
Bill
So um how do you interpret that as far as the change, whatever change you want to call it that keeps you sober today? I guess let's start there.

00:11:07.36
Mike
um Well, kind of alluded to it earlier, I'm not the most important thing around here anymore. Yeah.

00:11:13.09
Bill
yeah

00:11:15.00
Mike
Right. Yeah. I mean, that's that's the big one. You know, ah I'm not number one. i am not the center of the universe. I am not the most fucking important thing in the world anymore.

00:11:26.62
Mike
um And that's wonderful. I don't want to be anymore. i Hell, I probably didn't want to be what I thought I was. Yeah. Yeah, that is that is the change. I'm not running the show. I'm not in control of things. um The only control I have is my response to things.

00:11:44.81
Mike
um Yeah. Well, I'm not the center of the universe anymore. It's the best way to put it.

00:11:53.45
Bill
And I like the way that, well, not the way, the fact that you repeated that a couple of times anymore.

00:11:58.03
Mike
Right.

00:11:58.89
Bill
It's, it kind of goes along with, ah you know, when we talk about things that haven't happened yet, you know, it's the, it's the same concept, but just going the, you know, technically the other direction, but, um,

00:12:03.62
Mike
Right.

00:12:07.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:12:08.69
Bill
I mean, yeah, that's a, that is kind of, it is, it's again, it, it's freedom. You and I have talked about that before that, you know, not having to be, you know, that the center of, or um having to, because they we did, we had to control things and people and circumstances and situations and in all that stuff.

00:12:14.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:22.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:26.99
Bill
And, It just made me think about just the other day, and I'll mention this in a second, but, you know, the like my job, for instance, I mean, the the fact that I don't have to um I don't have to control people anymore.

00:12:27.74
Mike
Yeah. yeah

00:12:37.87
Bill
i don't have to manage people anymore.

00:12:38.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:12:39.45
Bill
I had just a it was a monthly meeting that that we have and my manager.

00:12:39.72
Mike
Right.

00:12:44.46
Bill
And then the, actually the two managers said it's a kind of a laid back type of thing, but um you know, he was talking about a couple of normal things, but then he's like, Oh, he goes, ah if he goes, we're also looking at it.

00:12:48.29
Mike
hmm.

00:12:53.48
Bill
He goes, as we, as we move ahead, he goes, we're looking for, you know, mentors and things like that.

00:12:57.56
Mike
hmm.

00:12:57.63
Bill
He said, would you be interested? And I'm like, well, what was that tail? They start explaining And then I kind of caught because I know that there's other people that have worked with me while at this job that are, you know, doing the thing.

00:13:09.29
Bill
He's like, well, you know, like doing side by sides of people this and that, and afterwards do a training thing. And, um You know, he goes, basically, yeah you get an extra 150 bucks a month, you got to do this and this. And I said, well, I said, one way or the other, I'd want to make sure that you know, I was settled with myself. and I want to make my make sure my fees are in place. And in the back of my head, I'm like, I don't want to fucking do that. I don't.

00:13:28.95
Mike
Right.

00:13:29.52
Bill
Um, two things. Um, I, I don't want to do it, you know, cause I don't, my whole point of doing this thing, you know, and literally it's, uh, I had to make a phone call the other night and I said, I'm, I'm done at five.

00:13:33.17
Mike
Right.

00:13:40.31
Bill
I will call you at five Oh one. You know, I'm like, literally I could do that, you know?

00:13:42.28
Mike
Right. Right.

00:13:44.59
Bill
Um, and then the second thing I'm like, it's, it's not worth 150 bucks, you know, it's just not, you know, but, um, I, I think I can, I don't know I'll, I'll deal with it when it comes up, but, uh, you know, I don't want to have, I don't want to have control in my personal life.

00:13:49.12
Mike
Right.

00:13:59.88
Bill
And I don't, I don't want to be, cause that's what it is when you're a management type of thing. It is you're, you're in control of other people and circumstances.

00:14:06.78
Mike
right

00:14:07.15
Bill
And I just, I'm too, I was going to say too old. I'm not, I'm just too tired, you know, and from a work standpoint to want to do that anymore, you know?

00:14:11.46
Mike
right

00:14:15.17
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. don't Not interested. no thank you.

00:14:19.65
Bill
Right. But you, I know you talked about having that opportunity, which I think would be cool for you.

00:14:23.24
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:24.52
Bill
But, you know, I think I don't even know. Is it is it a different circumstance? I mean, because when I look at it, where it could it could affect my income for me to do something like that, you know, because I mean, if it takes me off the phone and I got to do all these different things and then, you know, whatever.

00:14:32.08
Mike
Right.

00:14:35.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:36.75
Bill
But basically you get your ride along. Right. I mean, not I'm not trying to minimize what it is that you might be doing, but.

00:14:40.89
Mike
Right. No, no, no. Well, yeah, there's some of that. There's, you know, there's some in-house trading and stuff you would do. um Yeah. You know, i mean and you get paid for it. So it's no, it really wouldn't. It would, you know, i little more money here and there.

00:14:55.27
Mike
um Not a lot. um And it's certainly it's maybe it would probably average out to like, you know, ah maybe a few hours every month.

00:15:09.02
Bill
Right.

00:15:09.50
Mike
Yeah, you know, it's not a big deal. It would just be when the opportunity, there is some opportunities to make a little more money and, you know, ah a little something different. And um yeah, you know, I mean, other than me going, yeah, you know, I'd be possibly interested in it. That's about as far as it's gone right now. And that's fine with me.

00:15:28.27
Mike
You know, when, yeah, when they come to me and they go, hey, we are looking for another trainer.

00:15:28.93
Bill
Right.

00:15:32.82
Mike
would look for, you know, express some interest in that. Then we'll go from there. But yeah, right now it's just whatever.

00:15:39.36
Bill
Right.

00:15:39.61
Mike
It's, you know, a possibility, maybe.

00:15:42.67
Bill
Well, and, you know, because I i do the math on what, you know, what $150 does to me. And, you know, I do the math backwards as far as what it's really, I mean, $150 is $150. mean, don't get me wrong.

00:15:52.59
Mike
Sure.

00:15:53.81
Bill
um You know, but it's, again, for what I might might miss out on, if it's, you know, two, three hours a month or something like that, three, four hours a month, depending on if it's, you know, more than one one person you're kind of working with or or whatever it is, you know, i I could.

00:16:00.41
Mike
isn

00:16:07.77
Bill
I could lose out on. Maybe $200 or $300.

00:16:11.04
Mike
Right. Right.

00:16:11.69
Bill
don't know.

00:16:12.40
Mike
Right.

00:16:12.51
Bill
And again, it's the responsibility anymore. I just don't. But I mean, that goes back to this. I don't want the responsibility of trying to to control my personal life, you know, um and to to be a controlling person in it.

00:16:23.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:26.52
Bill
I don't know for anyone out there that may kind of shake their head, but what do you guys mean? You don't control your personal life. It's just a matter of, yes, we have to get out there and do our, you know, we got to do the work. We got to do the things we got to keep ourselves, you know, moving every day and obviously alive.

00:16:39.64
Bill
We have to feed ourselves, get to sleep, do all this.

00:16:40.35
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:16:42.73
Bill
But there's a, exactly that helps every once in a while.

00:16:43.56
Mike
Wipe our asses. Mm-hmm.

00:16:47.09
Bill
But um there's a different story of, you know, again, operating as a normal human being are out there trying to control the entire fucking universe. You know, it's exhausting.

00:16:54.68
Mike
Right. Right. Right.

00:16:58.28
Bill
Just fucking exhausting. um But the first thing that it started out with was, and I think it said something about the alcoholic, if i if I remember correctly, cannot stay sober on the basis of self-knowledge, I believe.

00:17:10.48
Mike
right

00:17:11.20
Bill
I just wrote down basis of self-knowledge, but I think that was the whole thing. um so what you're saying is we can't we can't figure this out on our own?

00:17:21.64
Bill
Is that right? Is something along

00:17:22.69
Mike
yeah Yeah.

00:17:23.68
Bill
yeah

00:17:23.73
Mike
um And right.

00:17:25.34
Bill
yeah

00:17:25.39
Mike
And I mean, yeah, you know, I knew for a long time I was an alcoholic. um So fucking what didn't stop me from drinking? You know, I mean, you know, yeah i have this disease.

00:17:32.91
Bill
Right.

00:17:34.89
Mike
I have this allergy. I, you know, I don't metabolize alcohol like a normal person whom or drugs or whatever. You know, I have this addictive personality. I knew all that shit didn't stop me.

00:17:45.82
Bill
Right.

00:17:47.33
Mike
You know, yeah, I couldn't stop just from knowing, having that knowledge, knowing that about myself. It's still, I couldn't stop. I still had to pick up every fucking day.

00:17:58.87
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, um you know, i I was kind of on the other spectrum. I was I was 100 percent complete denial.

00:18:03.19
Mike
Hmm.

00:18:05.50
Bill
I'm like, oh. Because literally, you know, i think I've said it ah probably a hundred times over the last three years, but the only thing I ever admitted to myself was that at some point I was going and literally I remember thinking to myself, oh, going to calm down, change your evil ways type of thing, you know?

00:18:18.96
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:18:21.48
Mike
Mm.

00:18:21.97
Bill
Settle down a little bit, you know?

00:18:23.42
Mike
Sure.

00:18:25.64
Bill
i never thought to myself, Jesus, dude, you're a fucking raging alcoholic. And it's probably, as I'm fucking, you know, taking shots of whiskey in the morning, putting my contacts in, and still not thinking that I might have an issue.

00:18:29.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:36.18
Mike
No.

00:18:36.87
Bill
Delusional.

00:18:37.69
Mike
Right, of course.

00:18:37.71
Bill
Fucking delusional. And then, um of course, surrender. I think one of our one of our favorite favorite words. I think it's a favorite word of ours.

00:18:45.58
Mike
Yeah, it is.

00:18:47.16
Bill
you know And obviously surrendering to anything and everything, right?

00:18:50.90
Mike
Right, right. Surrendering to the fact that we are powerless over the substances, surrendering to the fact that we are not in control of everything, ah surrendering to the fact that we don't have the fucking answers to everything.

00:19:04.98
Mike
Right.

00:19:07.02
Bill
Not even the answers to everything. I don't know. It's just hardly anything. you

00:19:10.23
Mike
Right. Very few things.

00:19:10.97
Bill
i Yeah, I do too.

00:19:11.91
Mike
I got a couple answers, but, you know, you

00:19:15.21
Bill
I do too. Every once in a while, like answers pop up out of my head, but yeah.

00:19:18.91
Mike
Right. You know, after 15 years, we should have at least three or four answers.

00:19:23.49
Bill
Right, right.

00:19:23.96
Mike
but But that's about it.

00:19:26.77
Bill
Yeah, I agree. can we Can we generalize and say we have a handful of answers at least? good.

00:19:30.77
Mike
We can.

00:19:31.69
Bill
okay good

00:19:31.83
Mike
We can. Yes. that Those five fingers.

00:19:35.93
Bill
So, um and I don't want to, well, two things. I had i had a ah side thought on this and then it was brought up another thing in the reading, but I don't want to like jump away from the reading if you have any other thoughts on it, but any other thoughts on on the reading itself or in in general or no?

00:19:46.41
Mike
Hmm.

00:19:49.73
Mike
um I mean, no, just other than the fact that, you know, again, we we are not in control. We need something bigger than ourselves and always have to say it, whatever that thing is, we need to be a part of it and we need to do its work.

00:20:05.22
Mike
Faith without works is dead.

00:20:05.32
Bill
Right.

00:20:07.47
Mike
um Right. You know, so, I mean, we have to be a part of that thing that is bigger than us. um That's the only way it works. We can, you know, you can sit there and believe all you want in whatever kind of thing that you believe in.

00:20:22.08
Mike
But if you're not a part of it and doing its work, it's fucking worthless. Kind of like the self-knowledge. You know, I know all this stuff about myself. So fucking what?

00:20:36.00
Mike
Did I lose you? Are you gone? Uh-oh. I think we lost...

00:20:41.21
Bill
Oh, no, no, no.

00:20:41.34
Mike
but There he is.

00:20:41.81
Bill
I'm i'm sorry about that.

00:20:43.31
Mike
ha, ha, ha, ha.

00:20:43.52
Bill
No, you know, you know, what's funny is I was, I was over and I flipped over another screen to look something up and I had, I hit, I hit the mute button cause I just cleared my throat real quick and I thought I unmuted.

00:20:44.13
Mike
Ha, ha, ha, ha,

00:20:48.45
Mike
ha. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Ha,

00:20:53.37
Bill
Um, so sorry about that.

00:20:53.37
Mike
ha, ha, ha, ha.

00:20:55.28
Bill
But, uh, no, the only thing I was, I was, no.

00:20:56.96
Mike
just having a flashback of the fucking old self software we had

00:21:01.22
Bill
So in let's stop here and just congratulate Zencaster.

00:21:03.28
Mike
yeah yeah yeah

00:21:05.38
Bill
This, this episode is brought to you by Zencaster.

00:21:08.31
Mike
Right.

00:21:09.20
Bill
uh,

00:21:09.40
Mike
That works perfectly well well until we push the wrong fucking button.

00:21:09.74
Bill
and

00:21:13.83
Bill
Right. I was just going to say the there's been two times of this software, probably more, there's been two situations where this software is messed up. Both of them had nothing to do with the software. Internet loss.

00:21:24.62
Bill
The one time we had a guest on at that time, and I forget when that was, but I popped out.

00:21:25.29
Mike
Right.

00:21:29.04
Mike
I don't know.

00:21:29.88
Bill
I popped out for a minute. And then, um yeah, when I but like that, I hit i hit the mute button and, you know, I forgot to I thought I clicked it back on before I flipped into another screen. So.

00:21:39.56
Mike
Thinking again.

00:21:40.60
Bill
I know. Yeah. But Zencaster, I can't say it enough. I mean, it is fucking wonderful and it is it's so goddamn simple and everything.

00:21:46.55
Mike
is

00:21:49.56
Bill
It's so easy to use and everything that I need to do on, on my end. Again, very, very easy and all that stuff.

00:21:56.00
Mike
Zencaster.com for all your podcasting needs.

00:21:56.06
Bill
So.

00:21:58.87
Bill
yeah And it is Zencaster without the E. They're too fucking cool to even have an E at the end. Just Zencast-er.

00:22:05.02
Mike
That's right. Right.

00:22:09.26
Bill
But um what I was going to say is that you brought up a couple of times and made the distinction of when it said higher power and you said power greater than yourself. And I'm glad you said that because, you know, seriously, um I don't think about that as much um when I'm doing readings and things like that.

00:22:17.48
Mike
Yep.

00:22:22.84
Mike
Hmm. Right.

00:22:25.08
Bill
Although in today's 24-hour book,

00:22:27.21
Mike
Yeah, they've been pushing that hard, haven't they?

00:22:31.38
Bill
It was either today or yesterday. And I'm not shitting you.

00:22:32.79
Mike
but yeah i think both.

00:22:34.23
Bill
It was like, it was fifteen

00:22:35.82
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:36.41
Bill
And it these are short, these are short fucking readings that I'm just like, I'm like, ah holy hell, lots of God in this goddamn thing.

00:22:39.06
Mike
Right.

00:22:41.54
Mike
Right. Yep.

00:22:44.47
Mike
ye

00:22:45.81
Bill
um But I don't think about it too much, you know, the whole higher power thing. But, but seriously, that, that, you know, kind of reinforces any kind of, it does, it reinforces what we talk about as far as, you know, you've talked about more, I guess, more specifically, and then I certainly, I agree with you.

00:23:01.58
Bill
That, you know, we don't have to we don't have to have this thing. It's just got to be, you know, like, ah I don't know, um and an object or a person or a whatever.

00:23:09.21
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:23:10.80
Bill
doesn't have to be a him or an it. It could just be, you know, it's a power greater than ourselves.

00:23:14.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:16.05
Bill
And you've explained it with, what, the group and, you know, the love and all those different things.

00:23:16.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:19.16
Mike
Right? Yep.

00:23:20.63
Bill
And um I like that. And i hope I hope people pick up on that, even if I don't make a point of it. Because, you know, literally, I think it's i think it's it's comforting. And I do remember not specifically who, but I remember people talking about that and making a point of it when we first got, you know, into the Keating Center and stuff of just letting us know that it doesn't, again, doesn't have to pinpoint to a thing.

00:23:38.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yup.

00:23:44.62
Mike
Right.

00:23:44.70
Bill
It's just, it's not me. There's something out there whatever, whatever the thing is, the aura.

00:23:47.75
Mike
Mm-hmm. Something bigger than you.

00:23:51.17
Bill
Yeah. There's a power greater than me. That is fucking it.

00:23:53.10
Mike
Yeah, that's it.

00:23:53.73
Bill
Yeah.

00:23:54.77
Mike
Something that's not just my individual little fucked up head.

00:23:59.92
Bill
Well, you kind of have a big head a little bit, you know?

00:24:01.59
Mike
Oh, you know, whatever.

00:24:02.29
Bill
Yeah.

00:24:02.67
Mike
Yeah, well, what's inside of it isn't all that big.

00:24:06.16
Bill
right You got a little thing in there rattling around that big ol big old fucking dome.

00:24:08.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:11.18
Bill
but can fight yeah I was going to say a five-gallon bucket with a pebble in it, but yeah, I like BB and boxcar better.

00:24:11.23
Mike
BB in a boxcar.

00:24:17.43
Bill
or That's even more descriptive. but Okay, so cool. So the thing that i that I wrote down, and actually the side thought that I had, and i I'm glad the reading talked about it, was you know turning it over, okay which obviously goes along with the third step, which guess what?

00:24:33.99
Mike
Right.

00:24:34.16
Bill
It's the third month of the year.

00:24:35.65
Mike
That's right.

00:24:36.35
Bill
And, you know, I mean I know we're not specifically anymore going through steps and things like that, but the the third step itself, and I thought about it the other day, probably, you know, around the time that I was reading it in one of the books.

00:24:40.67
Mike
Right.

00:24:47.22
Mike
Right.

00:24:47.26
Bill
um But I think, I know for me, it was, don't want to even know. I don't know if, if difficult or mysterious or whatever the case was when it came to the third step, I didn't know how to, again, back to this whole work it thing, you know.

00:24:56.93
Mike
he

00:25:01.98
Bill
Because it says, made the decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of whatever, as we understand it or whatever it is.

00:25:09.94
Mike
right

00:25:10.22
Bill
You know, so in the first couple of ones, I mean, granted, obviously step one, we know, admitted and blah, blah, blah. Step two, you know, realizing, you know, that there is something out there. But then, i mean, i don't know, did did you, and we've talked about this before, I'm sure.

00:25:19.37
Mike
Oh. Hmm.

00:25:23.61
Bill
I know we have. But do you remember, was that hard for you to be the third step, you know, making that decision or or doing it or?

00:25:31.66
Mike
Um, no, not really. i mean, you know, well, you know, I i mean, well, I, I pretty sure I told the story on here probably a long time ago, one of the early episodes, um, when you can't hear us.

00:25:36.34
Bill
Well.

00:25:45.17
Mike
Um, at um

00:25:45.67
Bill
not Right.

00:25:50.50
Mike
but, um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I had a day off. Um, I was already past the I was in, uh, what was it looking for work?

00:26:00.66
Bill
Right.

00:26:00.95
Mike
LFW right. Looking for women.

00:26:01.97
Bill
right

00:26:03.26
Mike
Um,

00:26:03.73
Bill
Looking for whores.

00:26:04.92
Mike
Right.

00:26:06.12
Bill
course.

00:26:06.14
Mike
And, um but anyway, yeah, so we were at the Keating Center and we were no longer halfway. We didn't have to do group. We were supposed to be out looking for work. That was kind of what it was. But anyway, I had day off and I went down to the zoo and I was going to, you know, commune with nature and look at creation and all these different things and, you know, and kind of do my third step that way.

00:26:29.04
Mike
and um I got down there and I was down there for about a half an hour. Marty called me and said, get back. I got a job for you

00:26:36.41
Bill
right

00:26:36.78
Mike
I went, all right, well, there you go. I am not in control. ah There is something bigger than me telling me what to do.

00:26:44.25
Bill
Thanks.

00:26:44.30
Mike
And I went, yep, there's my third step. And off I went and I went and painted some shit somewhere or something. um

00:26:52.21
Bill
ah Moved some shit or painted some shit or yeah something like that.

00:26:55.30
Mike
Right, something.

00:26:58.40
Bill
And I'm sure, it went i know when you told this story, I told mine too, that I don't i have no fucking idea what I did. you know And i just I remember people talking about that, you know um going someplace and making this thing and going in front of ah either a church or a statue or whatever.

00:27:09.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:12.16
Mike
Right. Right.

00:27:14.02
Bill
know Again, like you, what whether it's the zoo or going out in nature or whatever, and I'm like, I don't, for the life of me, remember what I did. I mean, I know that I i worked the step.

00:27:24.23
Bill
I mean, i I accepted the fact that, hey, um I understand what it means.

00:27:25.13
Mike
Sure.

00:27:28.06
Bill
You know, I can't take this this fucking, you know, this self-will run riot thing anymore.

00:27:28.51
Mike
Right.

00:27:33.24
Bill
I can't have that anymore.

00:27:33.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:27:34.97
Bill
You know, and I've got to say, I've got to let let this shit lie. um But thankfully, ah you know, i had I had lessons along the way that taught me, you know, um gently taught me or reminded me, you know, that it it was outside of my will.

00:27:43.19
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:27:48.77
Mike
Or occasionally not so gently.

00:27:48.94
Bill
That's what I yeah Well, and you know what? i I don't remember any really harsh lessons during that first, you know, like 90 days to six months.

00:27:57.64
Mike
Right. Right.

00:27:59.68
Bill
It was just I had that. I started to get that uncomfortable feeling if something if I if I felt like I shouldn't do something, you know, that that sixth sense or whatever the fuck that is.

00:28:04.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:07.65
Mike
Right.

00:28:11.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:11.76
Bill
um Again, getting the new phone, you know, mom and I running around and, you know, it I felt like I was pushing. I'm like, I got to back off. I didn't know why. You know, but these little things like that. So um I don't know when it's still when you I mean, I accept obviously clearly the third step.

00:28:26.54
Bill
Well, maybe it's not clearly that I do, but I do.

00:28:28.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:29.44
Bill
ah do.

00:28:30.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:30.93
Bill
mean, 15 years of practice almost at this thing, but I do do, um you know, but it is it's it's still kind of weird because the again, the mindset like ah we were talking about before the control thing, you know, saying that.

00:28:32.69
Mike
he said do You

00:28:44.95
Bill
Turning our will over in our lives over to, you know, whatever this power is that's greater than ourselves. Again, it doesn't mean that we that we don't have to do anything.

00:28:55.73
Bill
You know, we still have to, you know, do the work.

00:28:55.83
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah. Right.

00:28:57.87
Bill
We're we're still the vehicle. it just when, you know, are these all these fucked up thoughts in our mind, these fucked up decisions.

00:29:04.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:04.70
Bill
um We can't we can't be the the fucked up individual we used to be.

00:29:08.49
Mike
Right.

00:29:10.14
Bill
We have to take other mental, if nothing else, take the mental direction of the things that we've been taught and in all those different things, you know, over the years.

00:29:16.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:16.91
Bill
But yeah, I don't know. it was just, to I remember it being, um I can't even think of the way to put it. It was just, it was a weird concept to me and I didn't know how, maybe I didn't even really understand the whole concept of working all this shit.

00:29:29.59
Bill
Anyhow, again, the working, the action part of it.

00:29:30.25
Mike
Sure. Yeah, right.

00:29:32.31
Bill
I'm like, how do you work this?

00:29:32.90
Mike
Exactly. Well, it you know, I mean, you know, I say it kind of jokingly, but not really. i mean, you know, I do the first three steps before I get out of bed in the morning. I mean, those steps get worked every fucking day.

00:29:42.28
Bill
Right.

00:29:44.75
Mike
um And, you know, clearly I'm um better at them now and they've changed. and And yeah, but, you know, this is, you know, whatever. If you have some concept of I'm going to go and kneel and say the third step prayer and I'm done with this step.

00:29:59.21
Mike
you're fucking wrong man because yeah you know i i gotta make that decision usually several times a day because you know i see you know i try to take shit back all the time you know and and i've got to go well nope nope got to make that decision that conscious decision i'm not in control of this shit there's something bigger than me running this crap

00:30:00.60
Bill
Right.

00:30:11.64
Bill
right

00:30:22.01
Bill
Right. Yeah, and it it it is. I mean, I do the same thing. I mean, I do my my prayers, ah part of the, like the end of my prayers. And we we talk about it quite a bit when you say that, you know, that you don't run your you don't run your own life, you don' know, the principles, these good people, all this different things.

00:30:36.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:38.22
Bill
And I mean, just in my prayers, I always, i end off, ah you know, like the last section of my prayers always says, you know, and without you, my life is unmanageable.

00:30:38.68
Mike
Yep.

00:30:47.02
Bill
You know, I mean, and you meeting this power greater than myself.

00:30:47.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:50.72
Mike
Right.

00:30:50.82
Bill
And I mean, right there, that saying that, I'm not, I'm not in control, you know, and I, I started doing that back when, when we were walking the mile, you know, those, those words, you know, and I don't, again, we've mentioned it before.

00:30:55.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:59.13
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:31:05.14
Bill
I have no fucking idea where I came up with this stuff. Heard enough from some people, you know, heard enough from plenty of people, you know, where I put together this string of things that I do.

00:31:09.65
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:31:14.73
Bill
But it's really important that hasn't changed in literally almost 15 years, which is, you know, when I think about it, I mean,

00:31:19.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:23.37
Bill
That's fucking mind blowing.

00:31:24.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:27.69
Bill
I mean, it is right. i mean, it just, just fucking.

00:31:29.00
Mike
Right. Oh, absolutely. And I mean, that's kind of the, you know, the action. How has my fucking shit changed? And that's, that's it right there.

00:31:34.67
Bill
Right.

00:31:35.98
Mike
You know, we've incorporated this stuff into our lives and how can it not change? How could we not be different people than we were 15 years ago to the day, right?

00:31:40.37
Bill
Right.

00:31:44.39
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:31:46.49
Mike
You know, the beginning of March before we got there in April, all kinds of fucked up.

00:31:52.13
Bill
Oh, God, yeah.

00:31:53.23
Mike
Yo.

00:31:53.36
Bill
Yeah, this, what day is it today? Yeah, March. Well, it's coming up on my last drink that lasted for 31 days, you know, or 30, yeah, 31, 33.

00:31:56.09
Mike
Let's.

00:32:00.26
Bill
I'm sorry, 33 days. Yeah, because our died on the 14th, and then

00:32:01.49
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:32:04.58
Bill
ah thirty three i'm sorry thirty three days so yeah cause our our dad died on the fourteenth and then they know i

00:32:11.32
Mike
Crawls into a bottle.

00:32:12.49
Bill
Yeah. And I, uh, I made my way in when I made my way, I entered detox on the 17th of March or April. So yeah.

00:32:18.62
Mike
Yep.

00:32:19.65
Bill
And it's, uh, I mean, I was bad. I was bad to begin with, but yeah, I was, I was, I was all kinds of, I was a whole new kind of bad for 33 days.

00:32:22.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:26.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:28.49
Bill
Yeah. What was your last drink? Well, it started on, uh, what time was that? Yeah. But, um, yeah, dark, dark fucking month, dark fucking 33 days. That's for goddamn sure. So, um,

00:32:39.28
Bill
But yeah, okay. So third step. I mean, I just, like I said, it just it crossed my mind the other day and figured to be worth it. I don't know, just kind of, kind of dip into it again. It never, never hurts to, you know, talk about some of that shit.

00:32:50.39
Mike
Right.

00:32:51.31
Bill
Right.

00:32:52.06
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:32:52.40
Bill
yeah

00:32:52.98
Mike
It's, you know, it's, it's waking up at at the edge of the cliff, man. Make that fucking decision every day.

00:32:56.65
Bill
Right.

00:32:59.17
Bill
Right. So actually, I went through this this list over the last last weekend and kind of tried to clean out some. I had i had so much. I had not only, a well, not really garbage on here, a lot of repeats and things like that on my like list of things and whatever. But um yeah, it was just, it was kind of funny. I mean, I had, I don't know, there was ah there was ah it was probably a lot of garbage on here.

00:33:19.72
Bill
So um one from God grant me, it's the most unhappy people that fear change. Do you agree?

00:33:30.24
Mike
Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:33:32.53
Bill
And real real quick, as a side note, the reading went on to say that it would it would seem that unhappy people would want change, but we don't change because of fear.

00:33:39.04
Mike
o

00:33:41.85
Bill
So still, does that line up?

00:33:42.00
Mike
Right.

00:33:44.47
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, right. You know, I hate everything that's the way it is right now, but I'm fucking used to it. So, right. You know, it's, yeah, it's fear. You know, what if I fucking change and, and, um,

00:33:57.62
Mike
It's worse, you know, yeah right. You know, it clearly it won't be, but that's why you're laughing because we know better now.

00:34:04.47
Bill
Right.

00:34:05.41
Mike
but But when you're in that shit, you know, right. you Again, the phrase comfortable sitting in my own shit, you know, or you are you're comfortable. You're sitting in shit.

00:34:16.60
Mike
You're sitting in your own shit, but you're comfortable. And, you know, we don't want to. That's the whole point of being an alcoholic and a drug addict. We're trying to make ourselves comfortable all the time.

00:34:29.28
Bill
Yeah. And it's, ah yeah, you're right. The reason I laughed is because it's such a ridiculous fucking statement.

00:34:33.48
Mike
Of course.

00:34:33.68
Bill
What if it, what if it's worse than I started thinking about it, you know, as far as now, um, I don't necessarily think about, um, I don't really, i don't really worry about things getting, yeah making a decision, having things get worse.

00:34:46.25
Bill
I do think of, um, I don't want to say, well, I guess maybe the, the, the, the thing that could happen in a, in a negative sense, or if, if I make a decision, it could go in one direction or another, or it could be kind of medium,

00:34:46.68
Mike
hmm.

00:34:59.47
Bill
um I don't necessarily look at it as good and bad, but if it goes off, if I'm looking for it to go to the left and it goes off to the right instead, um can I deal with it?

00:35:06.86
Mike
Right.

00:35:08.77
Bill
Is it life changing? Am I and by going against my you know my ideals, my principles? um Am I not going to be able to pay my bills?

00:35:17.03
Mike
Right.

00:35:17.67
Bill
You know, I mean, life, life, things like that. And so I look at that part, but that's practical. That's not really looking at, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to do this because what if I end up in, in worse shape type of thing, you know, but, um, yeah, what a, what a fucked up.

00:35:30.35
Bill
Yeah.

00:35:30.75
Mike
Right. Well, and I mean, you know, and I mean, you know, we don't, and again, that kind of that, that psychic change that happens to us, you know, we don't have that fear anymore because we have this faith for lack of a better word that, you know, yes, I'm going to change and it's going to be different. And I don't know what the fuck it is, but um I've been through enough change that,

00:35:55.94
Mike
I know that it's going to be okay no matter what fucking happens. Even if it gets shitty for a while, it's still going to get better eventually. You know, that's that faith that we have because we put this thing into action for so long that we know, yeah, we might be uncomfortable for a while.

00:36:12.03
Mike
It might even get a little shitty for a while, but it's going to be okay because we know it is just from practical use of this thing.

00:36:18.59
Bill
Right.

00:36:22.39
Bill
Well, and that's the other thing too, that, yeah, i mean, it's not like, um it's not like we're not going to have, because we've talked about it openly. I mean, we, it is, it's still life. It's life on life's terms and all those different things.

00:36:32.94
Bill
It doesn't, just because we're living this magical, you know, you know, this magical, ah you know, free life and freedom and blah, blah, blah.

00:36:39.51
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:36:40.64
Bill
You know, it doesn't mean that, you know, weird shit doesn't happen. We talk about it ah enough, but, you know, i think two things that the mindset that we have of, you know, bad moments versus bad days, I think that's, that's a huge, least for me, that's huge, you know, because it,

00:36:51.49
Mike
Right.

00:36:52.67
Bill
It's a, it doesn't allow for, it for me, it doesn't allow a low to ever get too low. Cause I know it's a, I know it's a moment that, you know, this, again, this too shall pass.

00:36:58.22
Mike
Right. right And again, yeah, you said low. I heard load. And the load the load, no, the load doesn't get too fucking heavy.

00:37:10.29
Bill
Right. No, I knew where you were going with that.

00:37:10.83
Mike
Right.

00:37:12.85
Bill
And I for once wasn't thinking like disgusting on it.

00:37:14.74
Mike
he

00:37:16.90
Bill
um But no, it it is, it's kind of funny, but yeah, it's either way, you know, not to lower the load, you know, not getting too heavy, you know, and I also know too, cause I say it to myself, but if I'm going through, you know, this again, a time when I feel loaded down or a low time, um i I literally say to myself, you know,

00:37:32.57
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:37:36.94
Bill
First of all, I don't know why this is happening. There's got to be a reason. Whatever it is, I can deal with it.

00:37:40.75
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:37:42.05
Bill
And I know I'm going to learn something from this. You know, I don't like it today.

00:37:44.37
Mike
Right. No, right.

00:37:46.32
Bill
you know, whatever I'm dealing with. But somehow, some way, I'm going to fucking learn something from this. I'm like, fine. Give it to me then.

00:37:53.25
Mike
Uh huh.

00:37:53.67
Bill
What fucking ever.

00:37:56.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:56.66
Bill
yeah Which, again, no, it but the main thing is knowing that, like you said, it's going to get better, you know, and and we know we can handle it, you know, whatever whatever it is,

00:38:04.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:38:06.14
Bill
right

00:38:06.17
Mike
Right. Yeah. One way or another, we're going to get through it. You know, and we we also know that we have people and and and experiences and and and whatever, man. Again, that power greater than ourselves, whatever it is, whether it's the group or, you know, your magical guy in the sky or whatever the fuck it is, man, you're going to get through it because you're not alone anymore. Right.

00:38:27.80
Bill
Right. True, true, true. Okay. One more, one more quick one and then we'll take a break. This is a, this is digging back here.

00:38:34.54
Mike
All

00:38:35.61
Bill
And I just ran across this one. So this was back from my book, A Day at a Time. When it comes to pride, do I believe in Emerson's words that it is impossible for a man to be cheated by anyone but himself?

00:38:54.52
Mike
Yes, I believe in that. Right. Nobody can fucking cheat me but me. Nobody can. yeah Again, it's all of that personal responsibility shit, you know. um Nothing bad can happen to me except by my own doing.

00:39:08.69
Bill
Right.

00:39:08.88
Mike
There's nothing to fear but fear itself. um

00:39:13.92
Mike
Yeah, I'm responsible for all of it. Good, bad, indifferent, whatever. And yes, no one can can do anything to me. Nobody can make me feel fucking wonderful. You know, um I can, you know, people can make me happy.

00:39:26.25
Mike
I could be happy to be around other people, but my my happiness does not depend on other people um any more than my misery depends on other people.

00:39:32.90
Bill
right

00:39:36.48
Mike
No one can make me miserable. Nobody could ruin my life. Only I could do that.

00:39:42.28
Bill
Right. Yeah, we talked about that. you know, he walking down the street and somebody, you know, you get ah get a fucking nut punch from somebody. And, you know, but we had but we had responsibility in that for some goddamn reason.

00:39:52.64
Bill
Why did I walk down that street?

00:39:52.98
Mike
Right?

00:39:53.92
Bill
Why wasn't I watching?

00:39:54.48
Mike
Yep.

00:39:55.35
Bill
You know, what was I doing at the time? Same thing. If you're you cheated or or whatever the case is, or somebody makes you mad or somebody makes you happy, why were you there? why were you in this circumstance? Backtrack a little bit and figure out, you know, where where you fucked up.

00:40:04.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:08.01
Mike
Yep.

00:40:08.79
Bill
what's Where did you make the mistake, motherfucker?

00:40:11.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:12.90
Bill
so Real quick on the ah the fuck part. We were over like 150 again last week, I think.

00:40:17.36
Mike
Nice.

00:40:17.59
Bill
like You know, and the thing of it is, I'm like, ah know again, nothing nothing out of the ordinary with these with these episodes. There's nothing. I mean, we're not mad. We're not ranting about shit. um Oh, I get it. Speaking of ranting, hang on one second. I get it. Let me just, I got to write down the word politics. I'm not going to get too political. I got to bring up, a i have, I don't have to.

00:40:37.17
Bill
I'm going to bring up a couple of things, but I'll wait until, I'll wait until after the break.

00:40:38.49
Mike
Okay.

00:40:40.21
Bill
So, but, um,

00:40:40.47
Mike
okay Ooh, that's called a tease in the business.

00:40:44.05
Bill
I got some other things too. I got a new phone too. I got to tell you about that.

00:40:46.55
Mike
Wow.

00:40:47.56
Bill
Tell you about that experience. But, um but yeah, i don't know. We, we say a lot of fucks, but on on that note, Mike, what do you, what do you think?

00:40:54.79
Mike
Well, it sounds like a good time to take a fucking break and we'll be right back after these words from our fucking sponsors.

00:41:09.71
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. You know, it's probably a good goddamn thing that these sponsors hopefully never listened to our episodes.

00:41:15.64
Mike
me I was going to say, right. Yeah. It's fucking indeed or whatever. They do appreciate that. Whatever kind of bullshit they're playing through our podcast.

00:41:21.72
Bill
Yeah, and it's...

00:41:24.48
Bill
have you heard Have you heard our ads, the ads that run on there?

00:41:26.17
Mike
I, not now. I don't listen to this shit.

00:41:27.98
Bill
Okay.

00:41:29.04
Mike
You know that.

00:41:29.99
Bill
No, I didn't think so, but you indeed is one of the ones that, that yeah, advertises with us.

00:41:33.05
Mike
ah Well, I'm sure. Right. Yeah. Because it's just a huge, yeah actually, what made me think of it. um was it I think it was Family Guy I just happened to have on the other night.

00:41:45.24
Mike
And they were doing some podcast thing. And and he was... um she yeah They're like trying to be serious on some subject. And it Peter keeps throwing in the ads. And and one was... Indeed is... ah Overestimated the amount of people who listen to podcasts that are actually in a position to hire people. Yup. Yup.

00:42:09.62
Mike
i laughed my ass off on that

00:42:09.83
Bill
Yeah.

00:42:12.21
Bill
Yeah. And it is ah in indeed is one. And I'm trying to think, God, there's a couple other ones that are, that are common. Well, I can't think of the other ones, but, but yeah, it'll, it's, they're all, you know, they're positive ads. You know like, yeah, our fucking sponsors.

00:42:24.48
Bill
Hi, what about, you know, looking to hire people? tweak them into our fucking sponsors. But no, i appreciate that. So, okay. So real quick, a couple of things with just the political thing. And I just, this is, this is in general, um all politicians. I think that I know I've made it pretty clear.

00:42:40.33
Bill
I don't like any one of them. I think they're all, I think they're all evil.

00:42:41.61
Mike
Right.

00:42:43.68
Bill
Well, not even evil. That's a bad, I'm not, I'm not an evil kind of guy.

00:42:45.37
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:42:46.83
Bill
I think they're criminals. I think they're assholes.

00:42:49.60
Mike
Yeah, grifters and, right, out for themselves and, yeah, con men and, yeah, right, all of them and women.

00:42:51.65
Bill
Grifters. Right.

00:42:54.25
Bill
Right.

00:42:55.75
Mike
ah Let's not forget them.

00:42:55.78
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I mean, all of them, all the men, all the women from state, you know, to local, to federal, every fucking one of them, I wouldn't trust them or anything.

00:42:58.71
Mike
Yeah, all of them. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:43:05.30
Mike
Right, right.

00:43:06.25
Bill
There's literally only one politician I ever had respect for. And it was Tommy Thompson was a governor of Wisconsin for fucking years.

00:43:12.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:14.35
Bill
And he really did.

00:43:14.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:15.79
Bill
He was a Republican, number one, in a in a Democratic state for years, which is kind of mind blowing to begin with.

00:43:20.78
Mike
Right.

00:43:23.05
Bill
um And like Scott Walker was in there and everyone fucking hated him, but everyone loved Tommy Thompson. He did things, he you know, this welfare back to work and all these different things. Didn't just cut people off, actually got people back to work, did a really good thing.

00:43:35.25
Bill
That was like one of his big staple things, you know, um but just in general, a good dude, you know.

00:43:37.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:43:39.90
Bill
um But the the guy that's in there now, and I did not watch the whatever his speech was the other night. I didn't.

00:43:48.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:48.71
Bill
But they played they played a clip on on the morning show. just kind of funny. So this could have been It could have been him it could have been Barack. It could have been Bill Clinton, it could have been probably John F. Kennedy for, you know, for whatever it is, but sitting up there talking about, you know, that the people on the other side of the aisle, no matter what I do, no matter what I say, I could cure this, I could, I could help this vaccine, whatever.

00:43:59.42
Mike
he

00:44:09.97
Bill
I was never going to get them to ah smile or clap or whatever. And I'm thinking about, I'm listening to this clip on the radio. I'm like, Nobody does. It could be, I mean, the Republicans are the same way.

00:44:19.15
Mike
Right.

00:44:20.92
Bill
The Republicans, the Democrats, the Democrats, the Republicans, they're like fucking children during these speeches.

00:44:23.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:44:27.07
Bill
You know, it it it could, it could be something, a politician, surprisingly enough, maybe does something wonderful. i don't know when it's happened, but, you know, if if If it's ever happened that you know the the other side can't get behind them, like people are fucking infants. you know That's number one.

00:44:43.85
Bill
But the other thing that I heard, it was a news story they were talking about. I mean, the whole thing going on with the ah government waste and cutbacks and all that thing.

00:44:54.57
Bill
I'm of the the firm opinion that there's government waste out there. I have no doubt that there's money spent.

00:44:59.29
Mike
Really?

00:44:59.64
Bill
Again, don't.

00:45:00.60
Mike
i mean, I've got several $500 hammers in my junk drawer.

00:45:03.11
Bill
yeah right So you know what I mean.

00:45:06.82
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:06.86
Bill
um

00:45:06.87
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:07.91
Bill
So, you know, waste and whatever. And them doing cutbacks are fine. But I mean, some of this stuff's being done blindly whatever. National parks are one thing that they're hitting pretty hard. So it'll be interesting, you know, going out, you know, the summer and seeing and some of the trails could be fucked up and whatever, blah, blah, blah.

00:45:21.61
Bill
But they were talking about the, um apparently there's there's like 400 or 500. And this is just like of buildings that are empty. that are that are not even being used for for years now, probably, I'm sure, since the pandemic, that finally theyre they're going to try to sell them.

00:45:35.28
Mike
Right.

00:45:37.66
Bill
And I'm like, well, thank fucking God. you know

00:45:40.27
Mike
Right.

00:45:40.85
Bill
I mean, yeah who knows what kind of money and what these buildings are that are being that are just out there. and They're empty. you know They're fucking empty.

00:45:47.95
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:45:49.66
Bill
And I'm like, every everyone every goddamn one of us is paying for these fucking... I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ. And again, has nothing to do with the guy that's in there, the guy that was just in there, all this different stuff. Everyone knows that they're there for fucking years.

00:46:00.88
Mike
Right.

00:46:02.03
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ, it's fucking, I don't know, this waste.

00:46:03.53
Mike
Well, yeah.

00:46:06.00
Bill
Now we wonder why, why eggs are expensive, right?

00:46:08.56
Mike
Well, that's, you know, bird flu, but yeah.

00:46:10.14
Bill
that's a That's a whole other thing. But she wondered why all these different things. I don't know why we're paying so much in whatever it is, income taxes, and blah, blah, blah, and this different stuff. so But anyhow, so that was it. That was my that was my politics thing.

00:46:21.58
Bill
So enough about that.

00:46:21.75
Mike
yeah All right. Sorry, kids.

00:46:23.08
Bill
It just, yeah, I know. I was just, I was mind blown. was fucking mind blown. All right. So um this one was from God Grant Me, and I'll talk about my phone thing in a minute. um God Grant Me, being responsible for those that are still suffering, what does that mean to you? And to what extent are you willing to go to be there for the still suffering?

00:46:44.51
Bill
Okay. And, you know, specifically, and I know we've talked about service work and all those sort of things, but I'm trying to, and it God Grant Me was it was talking about, you know, again, i don't want to say the extreme, but maybe, So um once again, you know, being responsible for those still suffering and then maybe you're your or our question is, to what extent are you willing to be there for the still suffering?

00:47:05.02
Mike
Right. um Well, um you know, just, I mean... it it depends on and how you want to look at it. Right. I mean, I am a, I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Um, I'm active in my home group. I have service position.

00:47:22.84
Mike
um i keep, I help to keep the doors open in a specific meeting. Um, that's what I'm willing to do. I'm willing to get up off my ass on a Sunday night, go sit in a church basement and be there for people who want to come into that door and get some help.

00:47:41.29
Bill
right

00:47:41.56
Mike
Um, Yeah, you know, and that's that's kind of, that's the extent of it. That's what I'm willing to do. I'm willing to keep a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous going. That's all I can do. um You know, I'm not willing to go drag people off bar stools, go pull them out of fucking trap houses because that's worthless.

00:48:01.24
Bill
right

00:48:01.32
Mike
um i'm I'm willing to do something that can possibly, not necessarily, but possibly help someone if they're willing, willing two

00:48:12.11
Bill
ah

00:48:14.65
Mike
to be open to getting some help. um Yeah, that's that's the extent of it. It's all I can do. That's all that was done for me. You know, there were meetings open by good men and women. They kept the doors open to keep that meeting going so I could walk in there and go, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

00:48:35.93
Bill
Right.

00:48:37.20
Mike
That's, yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm willing to do.

00:48:40.98
Bill
Yeah. And I, you know, I said the reason I wrote that down and I, I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of simplistic, but then again, it it made me think to a little, to and a certain extent. And I kind of shut my brain down then when I, when I wrote it down, whatever it was, but you know, as I'm thinking now, it's like, okay, so, you know, i mean, I, I know people that, um, you know, again, start their own groups.

00:49:00.23
Bill
There's people that, uh, you know, do podcasts and actually do online meetings.

00:49:00.27
Mike
Sure.

00:49:03.45
Bill
I'd take, that would take a lot of fucking at work. And it's not that that thought hadn't crossed my mind. I'm like, that'd be kind of cool. And I'm like, i don't know. I want to do that. I don't know that I want to go to that extent, you know, um because then the, because then the sideline thought was that is then, okay, so what is that meeting about?

00:49:10.51
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:49:18.32
Bill
Is it a meeting that we got to worry about that? You know, basically what are we doing in the literally then in the name?

00:49:21.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:24.32
Bill
And I'm like, ah, that's, it's too fucking much, you know, I don't want to blend in, in, you know, smear and blur all these things together.

00:49:26.56
Mike
Right.

00:49:31.06
Mike
Right. No, we can't.

00:49:31.73
Bill
um Right. And then, you know, I know people go, you know, people go to prisons, people go to detox centers, people go to those certain things.

00:49:39.08
Mike
Right.

00:49:39.14
Bill
Right. And, you know, here's the thing. and i And as I thought about it, like you, when you were talking, um I would have no issue whatsoever. um Even now I have nothing against meetings. I talk about that all the time.

00:49:50.26
Bill
You know, I don't go to a lot of meetings, any, usually unless I'm in Cleveland, um you know, but I'm number one, not opposed to it.

00:49:52.05
Mike
Right.

00:49:54.79
Mike
Right.

00:49:58.15
Bill
But the other thing is, is that I guess the extent I'm willing to go to is I need to be um, ready and available when asked to do anything at any point, you know, and, and literally I, I need to need to be ready for that phone call.

00:50:07.29
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

00:50:13.33
Bill
I need to be ready for, um, like, I mean, whatever it was, when did I leave for you?

00:50:15.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:17.00
Bill
End of September. Right.

00:50:18.85
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:19.33
Bill
And you were just like, you're like, Hey, what are you doing the last weekend?

00:50:22.27
Mike
Right.

00:50:22.68
Bill
it September. I'm like, well, what do you need me to be doing?

00:50:25.22
Mike
Right.

00:50:25.65
Bill
You know? Yeah.

00:50:26.41
Mike
Exactly.

00:50:27.41
Bill
and ah And you know, I mean, I have the ability to to be out there. so um you know, I did it. I went, hung out with you for a week and I i led, you know, led at your home group.

00:50:34.22
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:50:36.06
Bill
um You know, and we were asked to go to the retreat, you know, with Mara.

00:50:39.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:40.39
Bill
um You know, things like that. And if somebody, I think it'd be, i think it would be interesting to go and speak in a prison. It kind of would, it would be...

00:50:47.19
Mike
Right.

00:50:48.13
Bill
it would be interesting. Um, I got, I got asked a number of years ago to, to go help lead a group in a, um, in a detox meeting in a hospital, you know?

00:50:49.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:57.01
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:50:57.69
Bill
Um, I jumped at that chance. It was fucking wonderful.

00:50:59.88
Mike
Right.

00:51:00.49
Bill
You know, you know, it was late ish on a, on a weeknight, which I'm like, you know, that, that our typical thing is like, ah, fuck man, you know?

00:51:00.59
Mike
Yeah, I bet.

00:51:05.60
Mike
Right. Of course. Of course.

00:51:09.26
Bill
Um, but, I don't know what anything like that, but, but yeah, I guess that that's the point. ah If nothing else, we have to be. um And I guess i'm I'm trying to make myself feel better because I don't do things all the time.

00:51:20.41
Mike
Right. Right. Well, I mean, you, you hit it, man.

00:51:23.46
Bill
yeah

00:51:24.05
Mike
It's, you know, yeah being ready and being willing if asked.

00:51:29.06
Bill
Right.

00:51:29.50
Mike
You know, but yeah, i'm I'm not chasing anybody down that we were taught. That was the way we were taught, you know, because it's a waste of fucking time. Not chasing anybody, you know.

00:51:38.75
Bill
Right.

00:51:39.07
Mike
up Come to me if you ask me if you want help. I i absolutely am always willing to do it, but I'm like i'm not chasing anybody. um I'm cool where I'm at. Thank you very much.

00:51:51.12
Mike
You know, I appreciate all the help that I was given and I am absolutely willing to give that help again if asked. But I have to be asked.

00:51:58.60
Bill
Right. Right.

00:51:59.59
Mike
Otherwise, what's fucking point? You know, again, that self-knowledge shit, man.

00:52:02.10
Bill
right

00:52:04.02
Mike
I knew i was a mess. Somebody came up to me and tried to lay some shit on me when I was in that mess. It wouldn't have mattered. It wouldn't have done anything. Yes, I would have some knowledge about myself that this person imparted on me and it would be fucking worthless.

00:52:20.25
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you know what, the, with the exception of my, um, my DUI, my drunk classes that I went to, um, I never had a circumstance where anyone, well, except towards the end, Kathy mentioned it, but that was like the last Christmas and whatever before, before I got sober.

00:52:27.00
Mike
Right.

00:52:33.47
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:52:37.58
Bill
Um, you know, but I mean, that was, that was a fucking mess, you know, that, that was a different story, but, uh, I mean, yeah, that was, you know, same thing, you know, that, uh, Fucking counselor, you know, whats what's your plan?

00:52:47.64
Bill
You know, like, oh, I'm going to this and do that.

00:52:48.21
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:52:49.76
Bill
Oh, listen, everyone.

00:52:51.26
Mike
right

00:52:51.54
Bill
Bill's going to try to control his drinking.

00:52:54.19
Mike
h

00:52:54.35
Bill
And seriously, in my head, I'm like, you fucking whore. You fucking whore. And like you said, I think you're, when first time I told that story, you're like, yeah, how dare somebody call me out?

00:53:03.20
Mike
exactly of course it was yeah but if you're but if you're not again willing to take that information in and do something with it it's fucking worthless

00:53:04.71
Bill
And, you know, I think a back on it now, I mean, that's, it's not even, it's not even maybe what it was. That's exactly what it fucking was, you know? Because, yeah.

00:53:19.38
Bill
Right. Yeah. That was 90. It would have been probably spring of. Oh, shit. Yeah. Spring of 95. I think when I was going through spring, summer of 95, when I was going through those those drunk classes.

00:53:28.23
Mike
yeah uh huh

00:53:31.32
Bill
And if anyone's doing the math, I didn't get sober until 2010.

00:53:35.22
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:53:37.39
Bill
ah So, yeah, it didn't quite didn't quite stick.

00:53:40.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:40.87
Bill
let's let's put it Let's put it that way. But, um oh, funny thing. Speaking of speaking of drunk drunk classes, there's a yeah there's an ad for um schneider Schneider trucks.

00:53:52.39
Bill
They're hiring people and whatever.

00:53:52.69
Mike
yeah a

00:53:54.28
Bill
And the ad starts off, um attention truck drivers. Okay.

00:53:58.06
Mike
see

00:53:59.30
Bill
The first time I heard it, now I can't unhear it. I thought it said attention drunk drivers. Okay. And I'm like, what? You know, because again, it's ah I'm listening to the morning show, you know, the radio show.

00:54:11.08
Bill
It's on TuneIn and it runs ads and attention, drunk drivers.

00:54:13.20
Mike
Right.

00:54:15.13
Bill
Then it's like, you know, and then the ad goes into, are you ready to start a new career? And I'm like what the fuck is this?

00:54:19.53
Mike
Yeah.

00:54:20.24
Bill
And it's like, Schneider is, I'm like, oh, truck drivers.

00:54:23.54
Mike
Yeah. They're a Wisconsin company, so yeah.

00:54:24.37
Bill
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's ah you and I talked about that some years ago because I think that I mean, they've been I've never heard any bad things about them.

00:54:34.81
Bill
I'm sure you've you've heard you know things about them or whatever.

00:54:35.36
Mike
Meh. Nah.

00:54:37.44
Bill
But I think the only thing that you said at the at the time was you said they govern their engines or something like that.

00:54:37.88
Mike
Meh.

00:54:40.62
Mike
yeah Right, which,

00:54:45.32
Bill
Yeah, I guess. ah Yeah, you're under the you're under the big umbrella now again. So I guess ah yeah that, you know, that.

00:54:49.60
Mike
Which is fine. I like being under the big umbrella. i'll take the ah I'll take the small negatives over the huge positives or something like that.

00:54:58.53
Bill
Right.

00:54:59.36
Mike
Right.

00:55:01.13
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

00:55:02.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:02.90
Bill
But no, it just it it's just so stupid. i and i Again, you know where' where's my mind at all the time, right? Hey, drunk drivers, time to start a new career.

00:55:09.90
Mike
Yay.

00:55:12.33
Bill
the fuck?

00:55:12.86
Mike
he Yeah, ah got your attention.

00:55:13.15
Bill
I don't want to. i don't want to. Exactly. All right. So speaking of, uh, Hey, look at this. This is, this has something to do with drinking.

00:55:22.22
Mike
yeah All right.

00:55:22.51
Bill
Um, from 24 hours, uh, the reading was talking about the tolerance point. Okay.

00:55:28.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:28.97
Bill
And once we pass it, we, we become alcoholics, blah, blah, blah.

00:55:32.59
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:55:33.13
Bill
So, um, my, my question for you, and I don't know if we ever talked about this. Do you, do you have any idea when you passed that point, that tolerance point, you know, the point of no return type of thing?

00:55:44.88
Bill
And I,

00:55:44.93
Mike
ah Right. I mean, I don't believe in that shit.

00:55:48.17
Bill
oh really?

00:55:48.34
Mike
You know, I never have.

00:55:48.57
Bill
Okay. Right.

00:55:49.30
Mike
No, no, no, no. I was fucking alcoholic long before I took a drink. And um yeah, there was I never tolerated it. I always drank to get drunk. Um, I drank for the effect, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah. I've always been an alcoholic. There's no crossover. I was born an alcoholic.

00:56:06.58
Mike
I was born a drug addict. Yeah. That's, you know, that's, that's me, whatever. You know, um, I, I can have, you know, again, it's the delusions in the fucking nonsense in my head that'll try to tell me, oh no, no, no, there was a point where you were handling it.

00:56:12.21
Bill
right

00:56:21.09
Mike
There was a point in your life where, you know, if you would have stopped then everything would have been all right. now No, no, no, no, no. You know, I was a liar, cheat and a thief. You know, ah again, big book shit, man. You know, alcohol is just a symptom.

00:56:34.41
Mike
It's just, you know, whatever the substance is, is just a symptom. it's It's our fucked up heads and our fucked up way we look at life and our selfishness and our self-centeredness. That is the root of our problem.

00:56:46.65
Mike
And um yeah, I don't believe in any of that crap. You know, if it works for you, fine. Doesn't work for me.

00:56:53.95
Bill
Right. But no, I mean, what I and I ah i agree 100 percent with everything you said. I think that um I don't even think I know that I am I am who I am and was who I was from that standpoint.

00:57:06.09
Bill
You know, I think from from day fucking one.

00:57:06.39
Mike
ye

00:57:08.50
Bill
um But do you in this is the part that I that I have a question about. This is the way I didn't look at it so much in that part. I looked at it from the physical side of things.

00:57:17.43
Mike
he

00:57:17.89
Bill
So like the, um do you think, or do you, cause I mean, there's plenty of talk about that there, there the the physical part where it's a certain point you do cross a physical line, right?

00:57:28.43
Bill
Like a physical addiction.

00:57:28.50
Mike
Oh, sure. Well, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, well again, lots of substances.

00:57:33.98
Bill
Right.

00:57:34.43
Mike
Yeah, right. You know, um yeah, you know, you you fucking use whatever that substance is every day. um It changes your chemical makeup and you become physically addicted to it.

00:57:46.26
Mike
yeah Absolutely.

00:57:46.38
Bill
Right.

00:57:47.29
Mike
You know, right. You know, ah and there's plenty of times, you know, where i I stopped using a substance and was no longer physically addicted to it um and then went back and got physically addicted again.

00:58:00.69
Mike
Um, you know, yeah. With alcohol too. Same thing. Um, yeah. It's, you know, unless I have some, it's some defense against that first one, um, I'm going to get physically addicted to something cause I won't stop, but that's the metal shit.

00:58:16.43
Bill
Right.

00:58:17.38
Mike
That's the mental obsession that gets me to the physical, you know, the, the metal shit was my fucked up head is there long before I make my body physically addicted to some random substance.

00:58:28.64
Mike
Um,

00:58:29.16
Bill
Right. No, and that's the thing. i I agree with that. Like I said, I was looking at more of the physical side the side of things. And i don't I don't disagree with anything you said about the mental side of things. that was just kind of curious. I don't think we ever talked about the the physical side of it.

00:58:41.30
Bill
But um I don't think there's any there's any way to tell. I think it's an unanswerable question as far as when that when the physical addiction started.

00:58:47.09
Mike
Right.

00:58:49.41
Bill
Because, I mean, I can think back to, I mean, shit, back in, even back to my DUI days, you know, when I used to go to conferences and things like that. You wake up the next day, I mean, yeah, you're hungover.

00:58:58.65
Mike
Right.

00:58:58.80
Bill
But even, even throughout the day, you know, when I'm in these meetings and stuff like that, you know, I'm, I'm hot i feel fucking sweaty and, you know, then I feel better, you know, when start drinking that night.

00:59:04.91
Mike
Right.

00:59:07.50
Bill
So I think that, I think my physical addiction was there, um, fucking years ago, you know, um, easily years that, I mean, God, 20, 20 years before I quit drinking.

00:59:07.85
Mike
Of course.

00:59:13.84
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah.

00:59:17.83
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:59:18.89
Bill
Yeah.

00:59:19.41
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:21.52
Bill
Which, again, no way to pinpoint it, but all the other stuff, I agree with you 100% that I, you know, same deal. You know, i never, even as a child, you know, whether it was alcohol, I mean, I was always seemed to be like I was obsessed with something or had that, had that nature, so whatever they call it, that, you know, the addictive or alcoholic, that nature or tendencies or blah, blah, blah.

00:59:35.45
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:59:41.79
Mike
Right.

00:59:41.98
Bill
So, yeah.

00:59:42.33
Mike
Personality.

00:59:43.53
Bill
Personality. Yep. All of it. And, uh, you know, the same thing, you know, we can still have it, uh, these days, you know, plenty of people. And I think that was something I had written down at one point that I might've taken off the list, but, um, you know, people get addicted to other things, you know, once, once they get sobered up.

00:59:50.46
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:59:58.24
Mike
Sure.

00:59:59.69
Bill
And I think we talked, we talked about that.

00:59:59.87
Mike
oh yeah. Yeah. Food and sex and work and shopping and you know sugar and yeah, all kinds of.

01:00:02.55
Bill
Yeah.

01:00:06.87
Bill
Gambling. Right.

01:00:07.63
Mike
Right.

01:00:08.50
Bill
Right.

01:00:09.10
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Again, you know, just this fucking symptom.

01:00:13.66
Bill
Right.

01:00:13.72
Mike
You know, if you don't get to the root cause of the problem, you're just going to fucking fill that hole with something else.

01:00:19.48
Bill
yeah Speaking of sex.

01:00:20.82
Mike
yeah fill that hole.

01:00:25.51
Bill
and whole stuff Hey, look what I found, honey. What is that? Never mind. Never mind.

01:00:30.99
Mike
I'm just filling my hole.

01:00:32.74
Bill
I just got a hold of Phil. That's all.

01:00:36.78
Bill
um All right. So this, God, this might've been, this might've been recent. Let's see. God grant me. We are both the dark and the light, the ugly and the beautiful.

01:00:48.02
Bill
Recovery gives gives us the gift of free will. Okay. So in my parentheses, um I said, what, well, what is that mean to you? What does that mean to you?

01:00:59.85
Bill
um The ugly and the beautiful, the dark and the light. um It says that it says we are both, obviously both of those things.

01:01:06.36
Mike
Sure.

01:01:06.98
Bill
What does, i don't know. What does that, what does that mean to you? I always sound stupid when I say that, but I can say that. So Mike, what does that mean to you? I feel like a psychiatrist.

01:01:13.70
Mike
Well, Bill, let me tell you...

01:01:15.05
Bill
Yeah.

01:01:17.35
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, we're capable of of both good and bad, you know, um, I always like the, uh, you know, there's two wolves that live inside of us, right. You know, a good one and bad one, which even you get a feed, whatever one you feed is the one that thrives and it gets stronger.

01:01:26.00
Bill
Right.

01:01:31.21
Bill
Right.

01:01:32.04
Mike
And, and yeah, um, Yeah, you know, ah yeah, we're capable of both always. You know, that's just the way human beings are built. You know, I could be like could be an awful person or I could be a good person. um it's It's what I feed.

01:01:48.73
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's, ah it is, it's, it's kind of, well, maybe it is scary sometimes, you know, cause I'm sure that you've had the moments. I know I have, I know I have, you know, when, whatever, whatever it is, you know, when you're sitting there and it's either, I'm not saying that I feel like, you know, robbing a grocery store or anything like that, not, not that, you know, letting that side of me go, but,

01:01:58.22
Mike
Hmm.

01:02:07.40
Mike
All right.

01:02:08.17
Bill
Or letting letting that go, that part of me come out, if that would be in there, whatever.

01:02:12.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:12.61
Bill
But, um you know, just, again, when you're reacting to a situation or, um you know, something really bad happens and you want to lash out.

01:02:16.83
Mike
Sure.

01:02:21.07
Bill
I mean, all those different things.

01:02:21.42
Mike
Right.

01:02:22.51
Bill
And and catching, you know, being having the ability to catch ourselves so we don't have to be that, you know, that that person these days, you know.

01:02:29.59
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly.

01:02:32.41
Bill
um It's a, man.

01:02:33.38
Mike
i just keep thinking of driving my truck through a fucking daycare center, but all right.

01:02:37.27
Bill
yeah

01:02:39.00
Mike
I don't know why, but

01:02:41.51
Bill
Right. I mean, that's, that would be dark. That would be, that would be evil. Dark and evil.

01:02:44.65
Mike
Uh-huh. Yes, it would. you know But I don't think I'll do that today.

01:02:49.40
Bill
Right.

01:02:49.58
Mike
Now, you know um i I was having a conversation with Chris last weekend about, you know ah we were talking about some kind of heavier things. And and you know it was like, um you know i I said, and I actually, I think I stole this from Penn Jillette, but um you know I do exactly the amount of murdering and raping that I want to do.

01:03:09.04
Mike
which is zero. I don't want to do either of those things. You know, I mean, yes, I could fantasize it. It would be nice to kill a couple of motherfuckers that I could think of, um you know, but, but yes, I don't want, I don't really want to do any of those things.

01:03:23.95
Mike
um So I don't, you know, yeah. Yes.

01:03:28.15
Bill
That's a, that's a great way to look at it. I, I do the exact amount or your percentage of, ah or the amount of, i mean, don't know, robbing and and stealing and and all that.

01:03:35.04
Mike
Yes. yes

01:03:36.42
Bill
It doesn't matter what it is, but I've i've never thought about it that way yet.

01:03:39.73
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:39.74
Bill
I, I want to do what I choose to do and what I want to do today is I don't, well, again, these fantasies about, yeah, like you said, kill a motherfucker. There's a couple.

01:03:49.78
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:50.06
Bill
go i And again, I hate to use the word deserve, quote unquote, but you know the world might be better off without a couple of motherfuckers.

01:03:56.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:03:57.82
Bill
But then again, somebody might think the same about me. Right.

01:04:00.80
Mike
Well, yeah, absolutely.

01:04:01.44
Bill
Right.

01:04:01.60
Mike
Right. yeah You never know the whole story.

01:04:02.82
Bill
Yeah.

01:04:03.76
Mike
Maybe there's something good in there because there's good in all of us. Right.

01:04:07.48
Bill
right

01:04:07.81
Mike
And, you know, yeah. And it's again, being in control, not my fucking decision to take that motherfucker out. Yeah, that's yeah.

01:04:15.23
Bill
right yeah

01:04:16.28
Mike
Not my place.

01:04:17.75
Bill
somebody Somebody else's will, not yours.

01:04:19.87
Mike
ah Exactly. And as the great Jim Carrey said in that awful Batman movie, when he was the Riddler, if you kill them, they don't learn nothing.

01:04:30.98
Bill
So, you know, it's kind of funny and this is, I was going to read one other thing, but I'll do that in a minute, but this is a good segue into my, into my new cell phone story because so, um, and I don't know if, ah if anyone that listens to us or looks at our pictures or anything like this ever thought about it, but there's, there's for fucking years, I mean, literally to the point long before I got sober and certainly afterwards, plenty of times people, the guy at the, at the T-Mobile store when I was to get my new phone, you know, driver's license, whatever, to set this stuff up and,

01:04:39.27
Mike
All right.

01:04:45.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:57.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:00.73
Bill
He's looking at my license and looking at me. He goes, you realize he goes, I'm getting kind of a bit of a Jim Carrey vibe from you. And he goes, you've probably heard that before. I'm like, i you can't i can't even count the number of times.

01:05:10.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:05:10.60
Bill
You know, people are like, you know, you look like, yeah, I do. I understand because the people have told me before, you know.

01:05:13.68
Mike
Right. Yeah. Hmm. ahha

01:05:16.72
Bill
Um, but yeah, had just kind of funny, but the, the whole thing. So first of all, and I'll start off, I'll just, I'll jump the route right away. I've never had a positive experience at a cell phone store until last weekend.

01:05:29.89
Mike
right no

01:05:32.72
Bill
And, and I spent, I, I spent three fucking hours there too, two hours and 49 minutes maybe, but you know, it was goddamn, it was every bit of three hours.

01:05:43.80
Bill
Okay.

01:05:44.03
Mike
Right.

01:05:45.25
Bill
So did I mention, i mentioned about the whole T-Mobile and the Super Bowl commercial and the satellite

01:05:49.65
Mike
Right. Yeah. The satellite. Right. Yeah.

01:05:51.31
Bill
Yeah. So that was my motivation behind it And I just, I called, made a couple of phone calls a couple of weeks ago. went into um like Verizon has them. T-Mobile has some, these authorized retailers, which are, they're not true company stores.

01:06:02.48
Mike
Right.

01:06:04.17
Bill
They're, you know, off stores.

01:06:04.41
Mike
hmm. Right.

01:06:05.65
Bill
And the one in Germantown, the Verizon store, that's an authorized retailer went there for years. They were always fucking wonderful. No issues. um This fucking, you know, knob at the, at the one down in Valpo,

01:06:16.80
Bill
Um, had no idea what he was talking about. So I, I waited like 20 minutes. This was couple of weeks ago, waited like 20 minutes ago.

01:06:22.11
Mike
he

01:06:23.79
Bill
And a guy, I'm like, ask him about the satellite, whatever. He's like, um, I, I'm not really, um, we We haven't really learned about that much yet. I'm like, and after, again, after waiting for 20 fucking minutes, tried to ask a couple of questions.

01:06:36.03
Bill
Like, fuck you. I came back here. I call customer service, got all the, all the shit, you know all the information I needed. Then finally had a time. So went into the store and this, uh, this guy, if I had to guess, he, he might be in his, I don't know, mid twenties, something like that.

01:06:50.11
Mike
Right?

01:06:50.42
Bill
Um, so roughly in that area, you know, cell phone store working guy, a of them are in that, you know, and,

01:06:50.66
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:53.48
Mike
Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

01:06:56.22
Bill
But dumb right off the bat, sorry, ask them questions, how it worked, all these different things. I got my daughter because, again, Kimmy is still on my my cell phone.

01:07:03.39
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:07:04.30
Bill
So I've got her phone, my phone, plus she's got ah a watch, a Samsung watch, making sure how do I get all this shit over here, what has to happen, rough costs, blah, blah, blah.

01:07:08.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:14.16
Bill
The guy answers all my questions. I'm like, okay, let's that's probably the first 20 minutes I'm asking questions until I felt comfortable doing it because I'm like, you know, she's in Wisconsin.

01:07:18.26
Mike
Right.

01:07:22.40
Bill
i want to make sure she's not going to lose service right away, any of these things, you know.

01:07:24.20
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

01:07:26.66
Bill
So all said and done, I mean, Kimmy's phone came over. They paid that off for $380. They're going to send us, ah like I don't want to say gift card, but a like a Visa card or something like that so we can pay pay off her phone.

01:07:36.89
Mike
Right.

01:07:38.74
Bill
um My phone, I got the Moto Edge again. My phone is free, you know so got that. Um, whatever package run right now, ah we get the, the satellite thing. Kimmy doesn't care about it right now, but regardless, it's free until July until ah they'll start charging us.

01:07:50.01
Mike
Sure.

01:07:53.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:53.75
Bill
And that'll be like $15 a line, I think, or something like that. Um, so we've with the, the senior plan. Cause again, yes, I qualify for the senior plan to get the things that we need and blah, blah, blah.

01:08:01.95
Mike
Right?

01:08:05.42
Bill
It's going to be to begin with, it's going to be, I think probably 35 bucks a month less, maybe 30. Okay. Then what I'm paying with Verizon, but right now we have no phone payments.

01:08:13.93
Mike
Right?

01:08:15.70
Bill
Okay.

01:08:15.99
Mike
Right?

01:08:16.60
Bill
You know, so, um, just kidding. Usually the phone that she gets a lot of times there, that's 25, $27 a month. If I had a phone on there, it'll end up all said and done, probably end up spending the same amount of money, but, um, you know, and um end up getting, you know, obviously getting what I want and all that stuff.

01:08:23.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:08:32.09
Mike
Right.

01:08:32.21
Bill
And the biggest thing was transferring stuff over and whatever. But I told the guy, said, you know what? I said, you know, I told him about the authorized store. he's like, yeah, he goes, we get a lot of complaints because I went to Maryville is where I went to the store.

01:08:43.23
Bill
um He gets the portage store and the Valpo store. He goes, we get complaints about it. He goes, they they basically, they get paid different than us. And he goes, so they're only going to do things um that are going to make them money like right now.

01:08:54.56
Bill
And I'm like, okay, well, that makes sense.

01:08:54.71
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:08:56.53
Bill
But, um, I thanked him. I think he got everything all set up for me. I had to end up, I had to actually FaceTime Kimmy through, through Facebook because, um, she had to update something on her phone.

01:09:03.89
Mike
Mmm.

01:09:06.38
Bill
And I mean, I can't get ahold of her cause the service switched.

01:09:06.84
Mike
Right.

01:09:09.12
Mike
Right.

01:09:09.65
Bill
Right.

01:09:10.10
Mike
yeah Right, right.

01:09:10.42
Bill
But I mean, I, I gave her the heads up and the whole bitch, you know, all this stuff was happening, but, um, Seriously, the guy was fucking wonderful. So if you're ever in anyone out there, you're ever in Maryville, Indiana, his name is Chris, Chris B at the T-Mobile store at Maryville on Highway 30.

01:09:19.34
Mike
Mmm.

01:09:24.72
Mike
o

01:09:25.91
Bill
Seriously, the guy was fucking wonderful. I couldn't ask for anything. And yeah, it was three goddamn hours, but I went in there early enough. I'm like, whatever, man, if I'm there all fucking day, I'm there. I do.

01:09:33.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:34.06
Bill
I knew what had to get done. You know, I knew what had to get done.

01:09:35.48
Mike
Right.

01:09:37.44
Bill
um So, yeah, I mean, it just I know a T-Mobile customer and, you know, I just got I got registered for the satellite thing. It's not I don't think it's actually active yet, but, um you know, nothing, nothing new on my phone. i mean It's a newer phone. It's it's fancier.

01:09:51.92
Bill
That's all, you know.

01:09:52.20
Mike
Right.

01:09:53.75
Bill
Actually a little bit smaller than what my other phone was, you know, lengthwise or heightwise, whatever you want to call it.

01:09:58.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:58.95
Bill
um But it's all it's all good, you know, and I just i've never had I've never had a positive experience switching before. And I don't know. I just I wanted to bring it up simply for that because it the shit does have it does happen.

01:10:08.18
Mike
Right.

01:10:09.84
Bill
You can get a decent fucking service, which is just it's it surprises me more.

01:10:12.06
Mike
Right.

01:10:15.24
Bill
If I get bad service, it doesn't even faze me anymore because I expect it.

01:10:18.18
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:10:19.12
Bill
You know, but when you get really good service from somebody, it's like, Jesus Christ, man, this shit's still out there, you know, just kind of nice.

01:10:22.16
Mike
yeah right

01:10:25.70
Bill
All right. um Back to what I was going to ask before, and this I wrote down a while ago, but since you're going out tomorrow night, were you um socially awkward or did you ever feel socially awkward when you either when you first got sober or any point since, you know, like being sober and out in circumstances again, newly sober versus now?

01:10:47.04
Mike
um I mean, yeah, still, I don't know. i've Yeah, you know, i before, during, and after sobriety.

01:10:57.53
Bill
ah

01:10:58.53
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:01.03
Bill
i i did not expect that answer, but yeah, go ahead.

01:11:03.01
Mike
yeah

01:11:03.74
Bill
Go ahead. That's awesome.

01:11:04.75
Mike
so Right. um i ah yeah Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, again, one of the factors of why I use drugs and alcohol um to help me fit into society and feel comfortable around other people.

01:11:18.64
Bill
Right.

01:11:18.73
Mike
um You know, and it didn't work. I was still uncomfortable around people even when I got fucked up enough and it was fine. I didn't care that I was uncomfortable around other people, but I was still uncomfortable um and still am.

01:11:31.33
Mike
And it's fine. It doesn't fucking matter. Again, it comes back to, you right, I'm not the fucking center of the universe. It doesn't goddamn matter. Okay, I'm a little uncomfortable, so fucking what? I'm still going to go out and have fun and and yeah, yeah. know, maybe, i don't know, maybe not as much fun as another person. I don't know, because I'm not in their fucking heads.

01:11:51.47
Mike
Maybe they're just as uncomfortable as I am.

01:11:51.59
Bill
Right.

01:11:53.47
Mike
i don't fucking care.

01:11:55.34
Bill
right

01:11:55.48
Mike
Doesn't matter. Right. Yes, of course I'm socially uncomfortable. I'm a goddamn alcoholic. I'm a freak. I'm a goddamn punk rocker, musician. I'm an artist. I'm fucking sensitive, man.

01:12:08.95
Bill
ah No, seriously. that's just that cause you know what here's Here's the funny part. is you don't strike me as being um in I've known you a couple of days. you know um You don't strike me as being socially uncomfortable or awkward or awkward feeling out in in public.

01:12:18.00
Mike
Right. Mm.

01:12:23.95
Bill
You never do.

01:12:25.02
Mike
Oh.

01:12:25.06
Bill
I mean, I, I know you don't necessarily want, you know, you don't, I don't know. You're not, you're not me, you know?

01:12:30.64
Mike
Right.

01:12:31.39
Bill
Um, you know, so you're not, you're not that extreme, but, um, I don't know.

01:12:33.93
Mike
Right.

01:12:34.99
Bill
You just don't, you just seem very comfortable in your own, I just out, out and about in whatever circumstance I've ever seen you in, you know?

01:12:39.92
Mike
Right.

01:12:41.37
Bill
So it just, that, that surprised me. I, I, I learned some, I learned something new today, but, um, Yeah, and I think, too, in like the the side note I wrote down was, you know, like not having, you know, not having your teammate around, you know, your drugs, your alcohol, that sort of thing.

01:12:54.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:54.58
Bill
And and to begin with, um I mean, granted, I was trying to think of the, um I don't even remember the the first couple of, ja where was it?

01:13:06.29
Bill
um Cousin, I was trying to think why i was, oh, Cousin Johnny's birthday when he turned, um must have been his 30th.

01:13:15.04
Mike
Okay.

01:13:15.94
Bill
Yeah, had to have been. So it was at the, um the well I think the country club area that that John Gail had or were members of.

01:13:23.14
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:13:24.68
Bill
and And I remember when you walked into the place, it was nice. um Edgewater. Edgewater? Is that right?

01:13:29.16
Mike
Hey, oh yeah, well we went down there for that, whatever, Labor Day or whatever, something.

01:13:29.30
Bill
The Edgewater?

01:13:34.10
Bill
Yeah. And when you when you drive in to go down to the park, right up on top is the, that's the club area.

01:13:34.62
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:13:39.14
Bill
So that's their, they rented that for Johnny's birthday party.

01:13:39.18
Mike
Okay.

01:13:42.48
Mike
Sure.

01:13:43.42
Bill
and And it was funny because so you i remember walking in kind of like the the foyer area. I'm sure they call it a foyer. It's not a foyer in that place.

01:13:50.63
Mike
Right.

01:13:51.33
Bill
It's a foyer. And then um you walk straight ahead. That's the bar area. and Literally, it's like an open area. and Then the bar to the back, you know, nice. I mean, really nice wood.

01:14:00.35
Mike
Sure.

01:14:01.00
Bill
You know, it's nice.

01:14:01.04
Mike
Right.

01:14:01.94
Bill
Yeah.

01:14:02.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:02.63
Bill
And then to the left is like the the banquet room, not huge, but, you know, decent size.

01:14:06.75
Mike
Right.

01:14:07.31
Bill
And that's where everything was set up. But what was funny was is Derek was in town. um The three people that weren't drinking that day were sitting in the bar.

01:14:18.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:18.80
Bill
Me, Kylie, and Derek.

01:14:21.00
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. And they were kids.

01:14:22.52
Bill
and yeah And they were kids, and i was ah I was a sober drunk in November of, you know, end of November of, you know, 2010.

01:14:26.58
Mike
Right.

01:14:29.51
Bill
So what, you know, seven months, six months, seven months, you know, and under my belt.

01:14:29.88
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Right.

01:14:33.50
Bill
And I think that was the first time I was in a a drinking environment like that. I wasn't uncomfortable because i was around I was around family, whatever.

01:14:38.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:40.94
Bill
But I specifically noticed, I mean, literally, I'm sitting in the bar, right?

01:14:41.34
Mike
Sure.

01:14:46.98
Mike
Right.

01:14:47.22
Bill
and not at the bar, you know, the table,

01:14:48.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:49.68
Bill
So I think I was playing games with the kids or doing whatever. It's just random.

01:14:52.07
Mike
Sure.

01:14:52.75
Bill
I didn't, I wasn't trying even to isolate or anything like that. um But I, I felt the difference at that point, you know, and I guess I felt the difference at Thanksgiving, but you know, they did the dry Thanksgiving, but so certain steps like that, I felt the difference, but um you know, so probably little uncomfortable, but shit these days, I don't give a fuck.

01:15:00.56
Mike
Right.

01:15:05.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:08.07
Mike
Right.

01:15:11.73
Bill
at it I, I, I can be comfortable. I, I've been told that, you know, this, I can, I can have a, I can have a full conversation in a fucking empty room, you know?

01:15:19.48
Mike
Right. Of course.

01:15:20.22
Bill
I have no, no issue whatsoever.

01:15:20.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:22.99
Bill
When I walk in someplace, all I got to do to begin with, yes, I need, um, I might need a prop. You know, I can't, I wouldn't want to just go and stand alone in the middle of a room.

01:15:33.67
Bill
Um, I would need something. I need to do something, go be against the wall, go grab a soda, go grab a water, grab something,

01:15:39.87
Mike
Right.

01:15:40.10
Bill
You know, or find somebody I know type of thing.

01:15:42.83
Mike
Right.

01:15:43.02
Bill
But then, then that's the reason I would feel uncomfortable standing in the middle of the room is because they would just be fucking awkward. You know, under any circumstances, stay in the middle of a, like if I walked out right now, just stood in the middle of the goddamn street out in front of Kathy's house.

01:15:47.90
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right.

01:15:54.85
Bill
The fuck?

01:15:54.99
Mike
Right.

01:15:55.75
Bill
What are what are you doing?

01:15:55.79
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:15:58.35
Bill
Just, just hanging out, being comfortable in my own skin. Yeah.

01:16:01.44
Mike
right

01:16:04.15
Bill
But shit, yeah, the fact that you said today always or whatever but whatever that fuck you said, it just made that made me laugh.

01:16:07.82
Mike
yeah yeah

01:16:11.19
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:16:12.56
Bill
ah So even even when you go, well, maybe it's even worse. Because you go to these bars and stuff by yourself. I mean, I know you're going to be hanging with your buddy, or at least not hanging with him, but obviously you know somebody there.

01:16:20.26
Mike
Right.

01:16:23.34
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:16:24.93
Bill
um But I mean, when you go to these shows, literally not necessarily you end up seeing people, but you go just by yourself or whatever, that's uncomfortable for you.

01:16:30.10
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:16:33.30
Mike
Yeah. I mean, um but probably easier than, than having to, you know, uh, be entertaining to someone else. I mean, it's different when I go, you know, well, I like when Chris and I go, that's, that's different.

01:16:43.73
Bill
that's a good point

01:16:47.36
Mike
Cause you know, we're together going someplace and doing something together. That's totally different, but, um, yeah, no, I, it's, ah Yeah, i'm I'm not, I don't know, shit. I mean, going, um ah family stuff, I mean, even, um you know, like a gathering of whatever.

01:17:08.70
Mike
um It takes me a minute two to, you know, yeah, it does, always has. It's fine.

01:17:15.68
Bill
Right.

01:17:16.31
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:17.14
Bill
No. And that's just, uh, now I'm going to be watching you. I'll just, just so you know, when it, whenever it is, but when you walk into roof from now on, I'm just going to, I know that's how I'm going to do it.

01:17:19.96
Mike
Great. That'll help.

01:17:26.00
Bill
I'm just going sitting there with, I'm like, I'm sitting now, I'm kind of sitting back, kind of leaned over to one side by my hands are, you know, together.

01:17:30.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:32.34
Bill
My hands are kind of like in a praying, a praying type of thing. I'm just going to looking at you out the corner of my eye. at yoga He's fucking uncomfortable right now. I can see it.

01:17:39.22
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

01:17:39.96
Bill
I can see it now. I can see it.

01:17:41.41
Mike
Right. Yeah, fine.

01:17:43.32
Bill
But, But you know what? I know what you mean about entertaining. So when when I went to the um ah the first Foo Fighters concert back in whatever that was, twenty summer of 21, and I ended up asking that.

01:17:50.17
Mike
Right.

01:17:53.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:55.32
Bill
it was it was ah It was an individual that I met through Dating Gap, and we had gotten together a couple of times.

01:17:58.60
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:17:59.76
Bill
And quite honestly, I never should asked her to go, um just because it was it was one of those things where we we got along, but it just wasn't.

01:18:02.89
Mike
Right.

01:18:08.97
Bill
um you know, again, there's people that I have, like, for instance, my friend Morgan, um she and I, I mean, we just, i don't know why, why and how or whatever, we're just friends, but we're really good friends.

01:18:12.82
Mike
Right.

01:18:19.10
Bill
And um we just, we, we gel together really well.

01:18:19.49
Mike
Right.

01:18:22.93
Bill
And I enjoy her company. And I think, well, she probably wouldn't hang out with me, at least if she didn't, couldn't tolerate me.

01:18:26.77
Mike
right

01:18:28.08
Bill
So I think she enjoys my company too, you know, but this, again, this individual that I, you know, it was a last minute thing.

01:18:28.72
Mike
since

01:18:35.11
Bill
I had somebody else I was going to ask that kind of went weird. And So I asked her, um you know, and then it was all fine.

01:18:39.40
Mike
Right.

01:18:41.35
Bill
But I mean, it just the conversation, it wasn't her fault. You know, she just wasn't as big of a conversationalist as I am, maybe.

01:18:49.37
Mike
Right.

01:18:50.09
Bill
um And it just it was I don't know. It weird. You know, so finally it's like when the concert started, I was like, I fuck it. I'm just going to, I'm here for one goddamn thing.

01:18:58.00
Mike
Right.

01:18:58.23
Bill
you're You're an adult. You deal with your fucking self and I'm trying, I'm trying, here I'm trying to talk to you.

01:19:00.62
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:19:02.85
Bill
try to get you involved. Once the music starts, I can't fucking hear you anyhow. So whatever, you know?

01:19:06.92
Mike
Yep.

01:19:07.57
Bill
um But yeah, that was up to that point. That was, it was challenging. You know, while we were waiting, when we first got in there, we we're kind of hanging out, waiting for everything in the, whoever the opening bands were.

01:19:12.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:17.48
Bill
I don't think we went in. were right at the tail end of whatever the opening band was. I, remember who it was and I don't remember that I cared about them um but yeah you're you're right that that's more work trying to and when you said that I'm like that's immediately what I thought about is that like that fucking Foo Fighters concert I'm like that was a lot of fucking work you know right

01:19:24.47
Mike
Right.

01:19:28.85
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:34.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:36.60
Mike
Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah. When I go to see a show by myself, I mean, I'm there to watch the band, listen to the music and and go. I'm not there for anything else. I'm not there to socialize.

01:19:46.47
Bill
right

01:19:47.74
Mike
I'm not there to, you know, hang out, party and blah, blah, you know, any of that shit. I'm there for a specific reason. When it's done, I leave.

01:19:55.70
Bill
Right. Yeah. yeah

01:19:57.28
Mike
You know, I mean, yeah, tomorrow night, you know, I mean, yes, it's going to be fantastic to see my friend that I haven't seen in a long time. It's going to be very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing, I've seen, you know, Handsome Dick before um doing dictator stuff. um but It's going to be really cool seeing my buddy back behind the drums doing it with him.

01:20:14.56
Mike
oh Yeah, it's going to be great fun. And, you know, when it's over with, I'm going to go back to my little My motor lodge in Allen Park, Michigan. And, you know, crash out, get up in the morning, dick around Detroit a little bit and come home.

01:20:30.44
Bill
Your motor lodge.

01:20:31.95
Mike
Yep.

01:20:34.00
Bill
Yeah. And that's, so I mean, that sounds great. what I mean? Seriously, it sounds great. But from what it sounds like, from what you're saying, is he, he's a working, he's a working drummer, right? Is this the guy you were talking about that's worked for years?

01:20:41.92
Mike
Yeah. No, no, no, that's another guy.

01:20:45.27
Bill
Oh, okay.

01:20:45.33
Mike
That's a bass player. Yeah, that's Brad.

01:20:46.47
Bill
Okay.

01:20:47.23
Mike
But yeah. um no No, Scotty, I mean, Scott does fucking all kinds of shit. He always has. he's He worked on that metal show. um as Yeah, um you know, he he does whatever needs to be done.

01:20:55.78
Bill
Oh, really? Oh.

01:21:00.14
Mike
he um When Duff ah from Guns N' Roses went out with his solo band, Scott was the road manager. He's done that for several bands. He does all kinds of shit.

01:21:10.81
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:12.05
Bill
Cool.

01:21:12.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:13.45
Bill
Well, that's, I mean, still, like you said, you know, ah at that time, you know, you went on your way and he stayed. And I, I mean, I think you, you know, as well as, as anyone else.

01:21:19.46
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:22.94
Bill
And I mean, that's ah the, the rock and roll business to be in it that long on any scale or at any level.

01:21:28.49
Mike
Right.

01:21:29.65
Bill
um It's not easy. You know, I can't imagine.

01:21:31.30
Mike
Right.

01:21:32.18
Bill
Right.

01:21:32.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah like I said, man, he he works entertainment, you know, all kinds of aspects of it in the rock and roll side of things.

01:21:43.25
Mike
But yeah, you know, he's a fucking fantastic drummer, always has been. You know, he was fantastic drummer when he was fucking 19 years old. You know, it was like, God damn, that dude's good.

01:21:53.15
Bill
Right.

01:21:54.73
Mike
Yeah, and still is.

01:21:56.67
Bill
That's cool. that's and That's actually very cool. All right. So speaking of ah music and speaking of some ah some of the rock and roll, um i found another article.

01:22:04.35
Mike
<unk>

01:22:07.01
Bill
I ran across one. 15 best heavy metal songs of all time. ah Now, here's the thing. I don't think you're going to be completely.

01:22:17.78
Mike
Hey, Eric Clapton's coming to play in Cleveland this summer.

01:22:22.06
Bill
Okay, well, remind me of Eric Clapton here for a second, too. I just got to ask you a question about that. um But I don't think you're going be completely mad about this list. It's got some it's got some decent ones. I want number 10.

01:22:36.67
Bill
Number 15. Were you ever into the band? did Ever listened to Rammstein? Rammstein? Rammstein?

01:22:40.95
Mike
Rammstein?

01:22:42.29
Bill
Yeah, is Steen or Stein?

01:22:42.35
Mike
Rammstein. Yes.

01:22:44.76
Bill
Okay, exactly.

01:22:46.08
Mike
Frankenstein.

01:22:48.19
Bill
There's a, they're number 15 with a do host. I'm sure I've, okay.

01:22:50.70
Mike
Yes.

01:22:52.04
Bill
I'm sure I've heard that song. The Bob and Brian used to play it. The morning show i listened to just to fuck around. They play, they play one of their fucking songs every once in a while on their, on their rock and roll radio station.

01:22:59.48
Mike
All right.

01:23:03.75
Bill
Um, so that's 15. Slipknot fan or no.

01:23:06.88
Mike
Uh-huh. No.

01:23:09.27
Bill
Okay. We'll skip that. That's 13. Anthrax. Uh, anthrax

01:23:12.75
Mike
All right. They got some good stuff.

01:23:13.85
Bill
ah Song Madhouse at number 12, 1985.

01:23:17.45
Mike
i but Okay.

01:23:20.18
Bill
um Pantera? No.

01:23:23.08
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:23.93
Bill
The song Walk, number 10.

01:23:25.69
Mike
Right. Yeah. Okay.

01:23:28.87
Bill
Ozzy Osbourne, Crazy Train, number 9.

01:23:31.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:32.16
Bill
okay Okay. I guess we never we ever talked about that. Are you an Ozzy fan at all or no?

01:23:36.05
Mike
Fozzy? Fozzy Bourne?

01:23:37.10
Bill
Okay.

01:23:38.08
Mike
um I mean, you know, I love Black Sabbath.

01:23:38.22
Bill
Okay. Right.

01:23:40.98
Mike
He's the weakest link in the band.

01:23:42.94
Bill
Right. Okay. Well, that answers that question. um What about Dio?

01:23:48.14
Mike
ah Yeah, what song?

01:23:50.21
Bill
Holy Diver, 83, number eight.

01:23:51.22
Mike
Yeah, you know, I mean, he's got better ones and he, you know, I like his work at Rainbow too, but yeah, okay.

01:23:58.05
Bill
All right, so number seven, Motorhead, Ace of Spades.

01:24:01.88
Mike
Yeah, well, it's not their best song, but their most famous one. All right.

01:24:06.60
Bill
There's a Megadeth in here. I'm sure you don't care about Megadeth.

01:24:08.35
Mike
Eh, no.

01:24:09.64
Bill
Slayer you don't care about.

01:24:11.19
Mike
Eh.

01:24:11.51
Bill
um Okay, you know you'll like this one. Number four, Judas Priest, breaking the law.

01:24:16.48
Mike
Yeah, again, not their best song, but you know, right?

01:24:18.85
Bill
Right, understood. Iron Maiden, yes, no.

01:24:22.23
Mike
Yeah, some.

01:24:23.75
Bill
ah Number three, the Trooper from 83.

01:24:26.72
Mike
Eh, it's all right. but Again, not anywhere near their best song, but all right.

01:24:31.79
Bill
um Number two, Metallica, master of puppets.

01:24:36.01
Mike
Eh. Not their best song, but all right.

01:24:38.16
Bill
Okay, I guess we're we're we're getting someplace. So what what band did you say you liked before? You're huge fan of?

01:24:44.75
Mike
ah

01:24:45.18
Bill
Ozzy was the weakest link.

01:24:46.44
Mike
Oh, Sabbath.

01:24:47.72
Bill
Number one, Paranoid.

01:24:49.47
Mike
Paradox. Yeah, not their best song, but all right.

01:24:54.30
Bill
Okay, I guess we we saw a theme to that, not their best song, but but I just figured, i you know, I saw, obviously, there's some bands in there that I that i knew you didn't hate.

01:24:58.12
Mike
Right.

01:25:02.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:02.49
Bill
That's why I figured that, you know, worst case scenario, you wouldn't, at least wouldn't hate that list that I that i had for once. But, um again, it's just, these things, you know, in the, the problem is the, i don't want to say the problem, I was just going to say the problem is I'm not getting any more drunk stories, of you know.

01:25:08.66
Mike
Right.

01:25:18.15
Bill
But, you know, Google, I just I flip through and I'll eat my lunch and I'll sometimes go through Facebook. I go through Instagram. And then as I'm finishing up, I'm kind of spinning through articles, lot of hiking shit that I get and whatever, of course.

01:25:29.24
Bill
And then I seem to get a lot on rock shit and a lot on, you know, hiking stuff. And that one just came up and I looked. I'm like, I get a couple of my look at. I'm like, oh, no, Mike would hate this one.

01:25:38.29
Mike
alright yeah you know that's fine mmhmm

01:25:38.36
Bill
So not going I'm not not going to bring this one up. So.

01:25:45.42
Bill
Yeah, but okay. So not a terrible list, but all right. So, I mean, I don't know. It's a fucking Thursday night. I think we could we could probably cut it off. i could I suppose I could go ramble on for a while, but um I don't feel...

01:25:57.32
Mike
ramble on there's a good song

01:25:59.09
Bill
but that is That is a good song. There was... Oh, real quick. There was a list that I didn't... I can't remember all the bands or all the songs in it. Top five songs that didn't have a chorus in it.

01:26:09.04
Mike
oh That would be interesting.

01:26:09.71
Bill
And um one of them was... um What do I think of the the Queen song? um

01:26:18.29
Mike
What, Bohemian Rhapsody?

01:26:19.35
Bill
There you go. God, why couldn't Boy, that just...

01:26:20.17
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:21.23
Bill
Yeah, but i mean Bohemian Rhapsody. There was an Eagles... Or not Eagles, a Beatles song in there. Something warm, hot, warm, hot, something.

01:26:30.96
Mike
Happiness is a warm gun?

01:26:31.14
Bill
No? Maybe that was it. What did say? Hot, warm?

01:26:36.53
Mike
He did.

01:26:36.95
Bill
um But yeah, the Bohemian...

01:26:38.79
Mike
Oh, yeah, that famous Beatles song, Hot Warm.

01:26:42.76
Bill
yeah Again, I read this list so quick. I saw Bohemian Rhapsody. I think it was yesterday. I couldn't get that fucking song out of my head all day.

01:26:49.23
Mike
Nice.

01:26:50.22
Bill
But there was ah like another few that I ah just bohem Bohemian Rhapsody. I'm like, oh yeah, I guess. But um I just never thought about that.

01:26:55.72
Mike
Right.

01:26:57.25
Bill
you know Songs that didn't actually have a chorus in it.

01:26:59.51
Mike
Right.

01:26:59.53
Bill
so was It was interesting. So anyhow.

01:27:01.94
Mike
Hmm.

01:27:02.94
Bill
but um So what do you think? Are we are we fucking done? Get one more fuck in there.

01:27:06.45
Mike
You know what? I think we're fucking done.

01:27:09.38
Bill
yeah All right. Your turn.

01:27:11.73
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. It's always be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:27:26.50
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time till the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:27:39.05
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:27:53.72
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever.

01:28:02.07
Bill
See, and now this time I know you had that in front of you because it just went off smooth like butter, like butter.

01:28:07.37
Mike
Right. Well, the first part, I mean, the fuck off part I've had memorized for a year and a half now, but yeah.

01:28:13.93
Bill
Right. Yeah, that that part I knew. But yeah, that what was it? Was it last week that you was you're like, I can't fucking find it.

01:28:17.96
Mike
Yeah, it was. I couldn't. I couldn't get my phone open and find where it was at. Right. Yes.

01:28:25.44
Bill
yeah Which, again, was kind of funny. But no, yeah, the fuck off part, I mean, that's ah I think that that's fun that you have that. I know you've had it memorized for a long time.

01:28:33.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:33.68
Bill
but So quick, quick side note. Did you happen to watch anything of the SNL 50th special?

01:28:40.89
Mike
A little bit. Yeah, it it was like it was nice to know that it was pretty much as lame as everything else they do.

01:28:42.30
Bill
Okay.

01:28:47.62
Bill
Yeah, and i was I was actually going to ask your opinion didn't know if you if you had watched the whole thing. So there was was certain...

01:28:52.71
Mike
I watched the whole musical one they did like a week or so before that. That was kind of cool.

01:28:57.15
Bill
Oh, okay. Yeah, and I don't, i didn't I didn't see that one, but when the, they were talking about the whole 50th thing, and I did, but it was a, re you know, obviously they had it on, whatever, a couple of days later I was able to watch it, and again, they had all fucking commercials, i'm like, are you kidding me?

01:29:11.20
Mike
isn

01:29:11.49
Bill
I pay for this whatever service it is, and I still don't think I'll show you goddamn commercials.

01:29:16.08
Mike
Sure.

01:29:16.36
Bill
Um, and yeah, it wasn't, uh, I don't know those parts of it that it was like, whatever it was, it was literally like, you know, two hours or three hours or whatever.

01:29:24.42
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:29:24.84
Bill
I think I watched it over two nights. Um, and I think I had, i don't know, probably 15 minutes of laughter, you know, maybe, you know, in, yeah, spread out, you know, in it, which again, I mean, I'm just like, okay, it's,

01:29:33.13
Mike
Yeah, that's about right.

01:29:38.75
Bill
Great. 50 years. it's ah It's an iconic show and all that stuff.

01:29:41.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:41.47
Bill
I get it. But, um yeah, i mean, some of these new, these, obviously, I haven't watched i haven't watched it in years. that Obviously, I have not watched it in years.

01:29:48.17
Mike
Right. Right.

01:29:51.18
Bill
But, yeah, it was just, ah I don't know. i wast I wasn't as impressed as it it got better. heard better things about it than when I looked it. like, eh.

01:30:02.07
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:30:04.56
Bill
I've had better.

01:30:05.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:07.72
Bill
yeah right. Speaking of better, there's got to be better people out there doing this shit than us too.

01:30:11.31
Mike
Right.

01:30:11.50
Bill
So I think we're done. We're done, done. All right, man.

01:30:14.25
Mike
We're done, done.

01:30:15.38
Bill
I love you, brother.

01:30:16.15
Mike
Love you too.

01:30:17.26
Bill
Talk soon.

01:30:18.08
Mike
Yup.

01:30:19.14
Bill
Bye.

01:30:20.00
Mike
bye