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Yep, this week it's Mike and Bill and an early release, since we have a busy weekend ahead of us.
Mike did his reading and it was about how "we" see alcohol and drugs, how "we" become fools when we drink, what we lose when we drink and ultimately what we gain when we stick around.
Then we chatted for a few minutes about chaos. The life of chaos that we used to live and the peace and quiet that we get to enjoy now.
The Holidays are coming up, so Mike did his normal message about how to get through the Holidays sober and we had a question from a listener and a follower about time and why we only count continuous time.
And a little bit more about Matthew Perry. It was a conversation based on an article in The LA Times and for the most part, we did not agree with the mindset of the author.
There was probably more, but I guess you'll just have to listen.
Enjoy the episode.
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Podcast www.sobernotmature.com
Bill (00:02.399)
All right everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And right off the bat, I gotta tell you something, don't be worried about me though, okay? Right, right, but okay, so first of all, I know it's Thursday and we'll talk about that in a second, but not to worry you, I had pizza tonight, okay? Now I'm gonna eat more. I'm gonna eat more.
Mike (00:14.199)
Any more than I usually am?
Right.
Mike (00:22.549)
Uh-huh.
Mike (00:26.702)
Uh oh. Hehehehehehehehehe
Bill (00:31.879)
But yeah, you know, the more I started thinking about it, I'm like, I know they're feeding us dinner there tomorrow. And I figured out what the fuck, man, you know, we're recording, it's a Thursday, but fuck it, I got pizza, so anyhow, yeah. When we decided to record even earlier, I'm like, yeah, whatever, man, I'll just go and I'll wolf down a couple of pieces to get my podcast fuel. And then, yeah, probably have a few more pieces later. But yeah, so we're doing a thing this weekend, which I've talked about a little bit on Instagram, but.
Mike (00:50.74)
Alright!
Mike (01:00.235)
Mmm.
Bill (01:00.443)
Yeah, so yeah, we're doing a thing. That's why we're recording at Thursday night. So you want, you want to.
Mike (01:03.558)
It is. We're doing some sort of thing. I fucking don't know. Don't ask me. I'm showing up, man.
Bill (01:08.872)
Okay, great. So we're in again, I know I posted on Instagram about it, but we're going to a sober retreat this weekend, which Mike and I in 13 and a half years have never been to one. So number one, it's a new thing. I think it'll be cool. You know, it's a 12 step popping our 12 step retreat chair with this. Is this a 13 step? No. Oh, okay. Okay.
Mike (01:20.174)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehe.
Mike (01:25.23)
We're popping our cherry.
Mike (01:32.923)
Yep No Well, I mean, I don't know I've again never been I have no idea what the fuck's gonna go on
Bill (01:35.739)
Wait, note to self, this is not that kind of retreat. Oh, shit, yeah, we're not a glum lot. Okay, note to self, that could happen. But no, I mean, we've never been to a sober retreat before and it hasn't been because, I mean, I've never been like, I don't wanna go to one, I just, I know of them and just never kind of got around to a type of thing, you know, but I know that some of the...
Mike (01:53.533)
Mm-mm.
Mike (02:01.942)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (02:05.211)
Retreats are more I've talked to people that have gone to or heard of people that have gone to Or these like meditation type of retreats where it's just it is it's that quiet and reflecting type of thing Which I don't know. I mean certain at certain times I'd be like I wouldn't mind getting away for a little bit and just quieting the mind, but I don't know that that's me you know, so I wouldn't mind just going to a quiet place and enjoying myself and not necessarily having to be I guess structured, you know, but
Mike (02:09.901)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (02:13.483)
Right?
Mike (02:22.103)
Mmm.
Mike (02:26.166)
Right?
Mike (02:33.71)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (02:35.111)
But no, this will be fun. It's in Ohio and our friend Mara is the one that asked us over the summer. And both Mike and I are going to speak on steps. I think you've got, what's up? Do you have? Well, look at you, the most important one. And then I have step eight. And, you know, I think that it's from what I've looked at from the tentative schedule. I mean, registration, I believe registration starts at like 430 tomorrow.
Mike (02:45.99)
I have number one.
Yeah. Mm.
Mike (02:57.41)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (03:01.679)
And then they've got us busy until, God, I think up to like 1030 or so tomorrow night. And then early Saturday, all the way through again, like 930 or 10 o'clock on Saturday. And then, you know, half a day on Sunday to grab lunch and then we'll head out. But so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a thing, you know, I mean, it's a, it's a structured event, which will be kind of cool. Cause again, you know, it's I've never been to something like that, you know, that that's been more than like a meeting, you know, or something like that. So.
Mike (03:06.782)
Uh-huh.
Mike (03:13.002)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (03:30.378)
Right. Exactly. Yeah, I know. Yeah. We'll see. I'm trying not to have contempt prior to investigation.
Bill (03:31.847)
I don't know, it'll be cool.
Right. Well, then it was funny. Well, it was it was funny because, you know, I mean, the whole thing and I was just thinking this is going to be some sort of like, you know, casual affair. And then, you know, Mara posted in the in the Facebook group. Oh, yeah. By the way, the rule is you got to wear a tie. And I'm like, oh, like, yeah, like, I don't care. I mean, I've worn a tie in a while, but then I'm like, wait a second, I don't have a tie. I have a shirt. I have no dress pants here. I have no dress shoes here.
Mike (03:53.246)
Mm-hmm. No. He, he, he.
Mike (03:59.48)
Mmm.
Bill (04:03.527)
It was pointless, you know? I mean, I didn't bring any of that down here and I'm like, I'll be up in Wisconsin. I could look for it. I'm like, fuck, I don't know where all this shit is packed. So I just, I just got, no, nope. I went on Coles' website and they had this huge, monstrous sale. It was a process, getting a couple of things. And that's a story that's, it's just, it is what it is. But I pretty much have all new clothes, you know? So it was.
Mike (04:12.182)
Well, do you need to borrow a tie? Okay.
Mike (04:19.511)
Hahaha
Mike (04:29.264)
Ah!
Bill (04:30.227)
They were all on sale, man. I had like huge discounts and sale items and blah, blah. So I got, I'm all set, but, but yeah, I was, when Mara had sent me a text, she's like, yeah, I didn't realize we were, you know, the whole tie thing. I'm like, yeah, it's not a big deal. But I'm like, you know, I need to do some shopping. And she's like, I'm sorry. I'm like, whatever, man. I said, either I told her, I say either I'm going to look really good or I'm going to look like, you know, headed to court, one of the two and her answer, her answer was, huh, or maybe both.
Mike (04:36.718)
You okay? Pfft.
Mike (04:49.218)
Hehehehe.
Mike (04:54.622)
Right. Well, yeah.
Mike (04:59.19)
Exactly.
Bill (05:00.255)
And I like yeah, I guess I guess I deserve that one but Other thing I wanted to mention today since we just had Michael on last week It had obviously crazy Megan on a little while ago today is their 10 year wedding anniversary. So Happy anniversary to them and it's obviously with that both of them everyone knows they're really good friends of ours and you know, we're at the wedding and yeah, just it's it wonderful memories, but you know, obviously to
Mike (05:03.447)
This is...
Mike (05:09.345)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (05:13.89)
Right.
Mike (05:21.678)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (05:28.287)
two of our favorite people as I put on Facebook this morning. So happy anniversary to them. But.
Mike (05:29.934)
Mm-hmm. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, I know. Speaking of ties, it was the last time I fucking wore a suit. 10 years ago today. Ha ha ha.
Bill (05:42.18)
Well, it was funny because I mean, all the memories came up on Facebook, of course. And I had a picture of you and Chris in the suit. And I looked, I'm like, God damn, you actually did. You had a regular suit on. It wasn't like this black thing or whatever. It was like they had different, I don't remember what color it was, but yeah. Oh, was it? Okay. I couldn't remember looking at it.
Mike (05:46.126)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mike (05:54.2)
Mm-hmm.
Right. The shirt was black, but yeah. Right. Yeah. Yes, I do have a big boy suit. It is dark gray with blue and purple pinstripes. Very, very faint. Yeah, it's a real suit.
Bill (06:13.211)
Right? Yeah, you actually look normal. Oh, do you remember that, and I don't remember where I found them. Do you remember the devil horns I found that I superimposed on your head? Yeah.
Mike (06:17.867)
Mmm.
Mike (06:24.006)
Uh huh. I do. I believe those are going to show up in tomorrow's Facebook memories.
Bill (06:30.327)
Yeah, it would be it should be sometime this week, but yeah the first set I put on there They looked out of place and then I found I think a smaller set of fucking hordes and theirs Were they big? I forgot I forgot maybe I had the small ones first that I decided the big ones look better, but But I just see I thought that was funny, you know, you're all dressed up nice, but you know, you're
Mike (06:33.294)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (06:39.082)
No, they were, they were big. They were like, yeah, they were like steer horns. They're like on the front of a Cadillac.
Mike (06:51.798)
Yeah, I, bigger is always better.
Bill (06:58.407)
fucking horns on your head. So, but no, I mean, I wanted to make sure that we said happy anniversary to them. And Michael's episode did really well, is doing really well so far. And obviously Megan's did well. So yeah, that was just, I had a, both of us, I know, had a great time talking to him. So it was, it was fun. It was good having him on. But so I got a shit ton of things. We got a comment from, or a question from a listener.
Mike (07:00.082)
Mm-hmm. Yup.
Mike (07:05.742)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (07:18.223)
Oh, no.
Bill (07:26.031)
Speaking of Megan, she sent me this, actually right before we went on last week to record, sent me this whole list of questions, which we can try to dive into some of those if we want to. And she was apparently on a mission. And then quite a few other things. I mean, I've got, I mean, things have been piling up, which is not a big deal. But yeah, but first of all, what about a reading? What about it?
Mike (07:31.76)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (07:35.078)
I'm sorry.
Mike (07:38.858)
Ah!
Mike (07:44.584)
Mm-hmm.
What about it? Yeah, been sitting here flipping through the book, trying to find something. Nothing was jumping out at me, but I found something cause you know, I could have just pointed again, but I really want to do that. Uh, there. Yeah. That was a good one. Right. Yeah. Just nothing was, uh, I don't know. Anyway, I'm in a bit of a mood cause you know, whatever. Uh,
Bill (08:02.568)
That turned out well though. That was a good reading the last time.
Bill (08:12.328)
Hahaha!
Mike (08:15.138)
Cause as always things never work out the way you want to. Some dumbass truck driver rolled his truck over on a freeway today and while I'm trying to get home. So I had, it cost me pretty damn close to an hour. But anyway, yeah, right. I was actually off early and it was all good. I'll get to go home and eat. Anyway, here we are. Nobody cares. All right, so, but I found one. It's September 28th.
Bill (08:27.503)
Oh shit, wow.
Bill (08:34.779)
Right.
Mike (08:45.222)
Um, a fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees. William Blake poet, dude. Um, we do not see alcohol and drugs the way many others do. Research shows that as addicts, we have a different experience than non addicts when we drink or use. We can't stop after one drink or one hit, and we become the fool. We give up things in order to keep using. We give up dignity, family.
friends and values. Many of us give up our lives. When we enter recovery, we get introduced to a base of wisdom. We get to see the world the way it is, not the way that we want it to be. We learn practical, useful wisdom that cuts through our denial and inflated egos. It brings hope to the hopeless and humility to the arrogant.
As soon as we leave our meetings, we start losing this wisdom. We always need to return for more. Prayer for the day. Higher power, I pray for the wisdom and insight into your will and vision for me. Help me to see the world as it is, not just the way I want to see it. Today's action, because this is a program of action. Today, I will list five pieces of practical wisdom I have gained from my recovery program.
Bill (10:13.639)
So a few different things I wrote down. Don't put your book away yet, because it was a list of things that I wanted to kind of have you hear. OK, let me step back, please. Could you hang onto your book for a minute? I would hope that you'd know, if you wouldn't mind, kind sir. But the first thing was the losing wisdom after meetings, and then the
Mike (10:18.862)
Alright. Don't tell me what to do. Hehehe. I suggest you don't put that book away.
Mike (10:33.733)
Yeah, yeah, it's right here.
Mike (10:39.382)
Mmm.
Bill (10:40.167)
What was that the list of things that or wisdom that we've gained? What was the last thing that was them that we've gained during our recovery? I mean, that's been. Yeah.
Mike (10:46.838)
Uh, what, the action? Yeah, today I will list five pieces of practical wisdom I have gained from my recovery program.
Bill (10:55.987)
I can list one, everything. Seriously, when I thought about that, I'm like, God, I'm like, shit, fucking everything, I mean, because the, you know, and that is the thing. And I mean, we've talked about it on here, but, you know, the old saying and stuff like that is that, you know, we can act well for, you know, 60 minutes or for however long a meeting is, but what happens between the Our Father and the Serenity Prayer, you know, the manners.
Mike (11:00.328)
Right.
Mike (11:05.527)
Mmm.
Mike (11:18.107)
Uh huh.
Mike (11:23.735)
Right.
Bill (11:24.487)
And yeah, I mean, the farther we get away from anything like that, any practical practice of any of this, you know, I mean, we can lose our not only wisdom, but, you know, lose our shit. Think about that, you know, with, and I mean, we talk about the prayers and the process in the morning and then the prayers at night. You know, I think the nighttime stuff too, and I know I've
Mike (11:34.006)
Hmm? Right.
Mike (11:47.203)
Hmm.
Bill (11:52.163)
It helps me clear my head. It helps me sleep. But it is, it's that bookend to the day, you know? And regardless of, because there's still, I mean, life happens, shit happens. All of us get pissed, you know, a fucking truck rolls over and fucks up whatever it is. And I mean, we openly talk about how fucking frustrated we get over the stupidest things, you know, that get in our way. But, you know, at the, literally at the end of the day, I couldn't even imagine.
Mike (11:58.253)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (12:03.336)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (12:13.698)
Oh yeah.
Bill (12:20.007)
You know, going back to how I used to be, just going to bed all fucking grumbly, you know?
Mike (12:22.358)
Mmm.
Oh yeah, right. I mean, you know, I'm kind of playing it up a bit, but you know, yeah, it was a little rough today, but I mean, it's also over, you know, when you. Sit when you said, you know, focus on the, uh, the practical wisdoms we've learned. Um, one of the, the hugest one for me is, is living in the moment, living in the now, you know, um, yeah, you know that. Me being stuck in traffic for an hour. Um, yeah, about two hours ago was two hours ago.
I'm not stuck in traffic right now, you know, still a little annoyed at it, but I'm not there anymore, you know, it's in the past and I got through it. I got home. I'm here. So yeah, you know, I mean, that's, that's a huge one, right? Oh yeah. The old way, you know, I'd still be all, and again, using it as an excuse, you know, making myself feel better for my bad behavior. Um, I'm entitled to feel like shit and be pissed off and, you know, and get fucked up and yeah.
make everybody else around me miserable because I deserve it. No, I don't. No one does. No, and again, it was two hours ago. It's not now. Now I'm sitting here talking to my friend over the interwebs. You know, that's what's going on right now. And it's not bad. Can I put the book down yet? No. Yeah. All right.
Bill (13:30.964)
Great.
Bill (13:42.963)
Well, and you think about it, no, well, you could put it down. Just keep it within arm's length. How's that? But I mean, you think about it too with everyone, the whole, the I need a drink mentality. I had a day I need a drink or I could really use a drink, that sort of thing. And even for folks that there's millions of people that say that, that do not have our problem, that are not alcoholics, not drug addicts, not.
Mike (13:56.998)
Mm hmm. Right.
Mike (14:07.126)
No, right.
Bill (14:09.959)
not compulsive, but that's a, you know, that is, that's a matter of, you know, it's a societal thing, you know, that's what people do, you know? And I was trying to think about that. Now, do I ever, I don't know of anything that, well, if I say that, you know, if I ran out of ice cream, well, I could really, really use some ice cream. Sometimes I've said I need to stop at the store and get ice cream, or I need coffee. I didn't even say that I need coffee in the morning. I mean, I just, I drink coffee. I don't get up, get out of bed in the morning and.
Mike (14:16.462)
Sure.
Mike (14:30.35)
Sure! Uh-huh.
Mike (14:36.684)
Right.
Bill (14:38.507)
don't talk to me until I had my coffee. I'm not that kind of guy. I will say, you know, kind of let me give me my piece until I get my fucking readings done. But, you know, but I don't even say that because everyone knows and if they didn't know, if I was around somebody new, I would, I've always been very open. Anyone I've ever met, I mean, they know my deal, you know, so, I don't know, that's, that goes back to that, you know, enjoying the freedom type of thing that we could realize that, again, I spent two hours ago where...
Mike (14:41.973)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (14:45.61)
Right.
Mike (14:52.378)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (14:58.111)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (15:02.934)
Mm, yes.
Bill (15:06.215)
whatever shit happened two weeks ago or two days ago or even two minutes ago. You know, and I know, I know you play, you were playing it up a little bit, but I also know that, I mean, that's what that's your, you do that every fucking day and you know, it all it takes is one little glitch and you know, it adds to your, that's, that's your day, you know, it's so, but, um, the one other thing on there, it says, um, we become where it said, we become the fool and then it listed.
Mike (15:09.334)
Right.
Mike (15:17.974)
Right. Hehehehe.
Yeah. Yup.
Bill (15:32.087)
We lose dignity family or something about dignity family. And there was like two other things that I missed.
Mike (15:38.478)
Right. Yeah. Uh, let's see here. Uh, we go things in order to keep using, uh, we damn, excuse me. We give up dignity, family, friends, and values. Many of us give up our lives.
Bill (15:52.711)
Yeah, I remember the give up our lives things, but boy, isn't that all true. I mean, dignity, family, friends, and values, which if I had to, okay, I'm just gonna take that and write that on a piece of paper and write gratitude list next to it. Because I mean, that about sums it. If I fuck up these things, then I will lose my life. Isn't that crazy? And once again.
Mike (15:57.284)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (16:07.728)
Uh-huh.
Mike (16:17.258)
Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Grateful, grateful. I have dignity, grateful. Yeah. Family, friends, and I'm grateful. I have values today. Yep.
Bill (16:27.475)
Right? And I think one of the first things that was in there was that we see alcohol and drugs differently, which, I mean, I want in my head, I was like, well, duh. But I mean, it is true. But yeah, it's the fact that we see, and we've talked about it before, whether it's hereditary or environmental or whatever it is, both of us feel that we've been this way.
Mike (16:35.339)
Right?
Mike (16:38.858)
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Mike (16:51.867)
Right.
Bill (16:53.647)
We just needed, we've been this way as human beings, just the alcohol. I mean, clearly was just something that, it's just throwing fuel on the fire, right?
Mike (17:02.506)
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and you know, we, we talked about, you know, um, you know, the normies out there, you know, Oh, I need a drink. Right. You know? Um, yeah, but they already know how to live in the now and they know that they can have that drink and feel good for, you know, whatever the 20 minutes or however long that, you know, that beer gives them that little buzz and then they move on with their lives. You know, they go play with their kids or whatever. Not us, man. We fucking that buzz.
Bill (17:29.604)
Right?
Mike (17:31.794)
everything you know and we just want more and more and more we want a bigger one more of it more please more yeah so um and we don't know how to live in the moment you know we're looking for that next moment we're looking for that more that next beer that next drink that next shot that next hit that next whatever um yeah you know we're not even content to sit there with that buzz of that first beer we're looking forward to that second beer
Bill (17:33.65)
Hehehehehe
Mike (18:01.642)
When we're doing it, we're not, we're not, I didn't, I didn't sit there and Ooh, I'm feeling a little good. I had a beer, uh, you know, no, it was, you know, I'm looking forward to the fucking seventh one. Yeah. I think that's the difference. We don't, we didn't know how to live in the now. They, those normies can sit there and enjoy that drink. We couldn't, we were looking 14 drinks down the road.
Bill (18:02.978)
Right?
Bill (18:10.375)
Hehehe
Bill (18:25.875)
So did you, and I don't know, Waver talked about this, did you ever, whether it was wine or any type of hard alcohol, did you ever kind of get that, and I want to say, I know you weren't, I don't think you were like a connoisseur or anything like that, but was there ever anything that you were, like, again, people, you know, wine tasting, because they really, you know, it's like, oh, this has this flavor versus that. A lot of people do with scotch and bourbon and whatever. Did you ever get into any of that where you like were kind of into a certain type of thing and...
Mike (18:44.651)
Mm.
Right. Mm-hmm.
Bill (18:53.985)
I don't know, testing out the connoisseur-ish type of thing or no?
Mike (18:56.846)
I mean, I, yeah, beers a little, you know, yeah, and bourbon a little, you know, I mean, giving my druthers wild turkey and up, you know, but. Right, right, but I mean, trust me, there were plenty of times when it was old crow and I was fine with that too, because I was there for the effect, right, you know. Yes, yes, and.
Bill (19:11.988)
Why don't turkey end up?
Mike (19:26.622)
Again, good beers, but good beers, it's changed a little bit, but they tended not to, you know, I had, they had a little bit higher alcohol content, I guess. I don't know. I, you know, I just wanted to get fucked up. Um, yes, having a good tasting beer occasionally was nice and I did enjoy that, but clearly towards the end, I didn't give a fuck one way or another. You know, I was pounding, you know, bottom, you know, bottom label fucking vodka.
Bill (19:50.307)
Right.
Mike (19:56.162)
You know, I just wanted to make sure it was the hundred proof or higher. So it got to me faster. Yeah.
Bill (20:00.783)
Right. Well, and with beer, I mean, there was certain beer that I liked better than others and that I learned to enjoy better than others and certain beers that I didn't like. But I mean, I was never into, oh, somebody like, oh, this whatever beer, try this type of thing. I'm like, it is what it is, you know. But the same thing with I there was really nothing that I'm like, you know, speak like different types of vodkas, for instance. Again, same as you. I was buying the biggest bottle of cheapest shit or the pint of whatever.
Mike (20:08.037)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (20:16.434)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (20:28.43)
Sure. Yep.
Bill (20:30.307)
I mean, literally, because vodka was usually the cheapest that you could get for the most part. And you know, you could get a lot of it for very little money, you know, relatively speaking. But you know, between the what the Grey Gooses and all these different types of vodkas. I mean, I just I don't know, I never really cared. Like if I went someplace and people are like, oh, you know, the specials are only on real drinks in my head. I'm like, I don't fucking care. I mean, I never did. You know, so when I
Mike (20:33.442)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (20:38.602)
Right. Yup.
Mike (20:45.646)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (20:56.084)
All right.
Bill (20:58.435)
The first real kind of mixed drink I used to drink all the time was, you know, 7 and 7, which was Seagram 7 and 7 Up, you know, but I didn't care. I mean, really, when it came down to it, even before I had a true problem, it got to the point where, I mean, what do I care if it's Seagrams or some other shit? I don't care, you know. You know, we're a gray group, gray goose and whatever. I mean, I wouldn't give a fuck if it was that or basic. I just never, I don't know, I never had that discerning of a taste, I guess.
Mike (21:04.938)
Right. Uh huh.
Mike (21:16.106)
Right. Yeah.
Mike (21:24.878)
Hop off. Hehehehehehe.
Bill (21:28.028)
But really, I just never had a, I don't know that that's ever anything that I, or anything that I've ever asked you. So it just kind of, kind of popped into my head.
Mike (21:32.63)
Hmm. Yeah. You know, yeah. I mean, yeah, I did, I did like, you know, good dark beers for awhile. Um, you know, I mean, at the end I was drinking, you know, uh, steel reserve, you know, malt liquor, good fucking chemical ghetto stuff. That was my beer. Yeah. It was malt liquor and it was nasty in, but it had, I think it was, uh, eight or something percent. Yeah. A fact. It's all I cared about.
Bill (21:48.254)
Right.
Bill (21:58.203)
Right. And I think I only, I think I only know of steel reserve from, you know, everyone talking about it at the Keating Center. I'm almost positive. I mean, 99% sure I never had it. And I don't know that they would have had that around Wisconsin, but I don't know. I don't know where it's, did they?
Mike (22:08.174)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (22:13.152)
Mmm.
Mike (22:16.85)
Oh yeah, they did. Oh yeah, it's, it's pretty much everywhere now. Yeah.
Bill (22:20.415)
What was it? Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, I don't know. If I ever bought cheap beer, it was just usually in a 12 pack or a case, and then whatever it was, I didn't give a fuck. But yeah, so again, just kind of interesting stuff that I just didn't know I never asked you on that. So back to the reading though, I mean, the main thing is that obviously the, I don't know, the things that we can lose, the mindset that we have, and obviously the wisdom, like I said, that action item.
Mike (22:34.286)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (22:50.003)
Five items, one, everything, that's it. I've learned everything and I tend to forget everything unless I do this, unless I do all of this every day. So that's kind of what it goes down to.
Mike (22:52.709)
Hehehehehehe
Mike (22:57.474)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, like, you know, like the reading said, man, you know, we leave the meeting, we leave, you know, the focus on the program, whether it's, you know, in a church basement or, you know, reading our books in the morning or whatever, we, as soon as we stop that, it starts to fade. That's absolutely true for me. You know, I have to refocus myself on, on the program and the way I'm supposed to be doing things. Otherwise I will revert back to the way I used to do things. And that wasn't very good.
Bill (23:31.191)
right. So quick question and this is another one. I actually, this may be written on my sheet. It's someplace. But when we were talking about the, or you were mentioning kind of living in the moment and stuff like that, I don't remember if I read it probably on Instagram or someplace, but or heard it on a podcast. But the person was talking about how difficult it was, especially in early sobriety, but even to this day, this person had, they had some years, I can't remember how many, but
Mike (23:32.298)
Right.
Mike (23:40.91)
Hmm.
Mike (23:44.654)
Hmm.
Mike (24:00.555)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (24:00.763)
You know, they got so used to living in chaos that, you know, when everything calms down, they didn't know what to do with themselves, you know. So did you, I mean, even to this day, I mean, do you still feel like you've always got to do something? Do you feel like there's got not necessarily chaos, but activity, emotion, and that sort of thing?
Mike (24:07.058)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (24:23.006)
No, not like I used to, no. I mean, like we talked about a few weeks ago, I mean, when I'll be driving, I will turn the radio off, the podcast or whatever, and just be in the quiet. I actually find myself doing it at home sometimes. I'll put the phone down, I won't have the TV on, and I'll just fucking sit for 20 minutes. And yeah, it's goddamn amazing, but.
Bill (24:26.54)
Right.
Mike (24:49.583)
But it happens. It doesn't happen a lot. You know, usually the phones in my hand, I'm scrolling some bullshit or, you know, or the TV's on, I'm watching some nonsense or whatever, but there are times where I just kind of sit. Yeah. I could do that today.
Bill (25:05.467)
But it is, and I was just thinking about it as you were talking, I think that, and I forgot we had talked about that a few weeks ago, but I think the only time that I get that anxious I have to do something type of thing is if something either is weighing on me or some sort of, you know, pressure, whether it's perceived or real that I have, or whether it's some sort of stress, again, real or imagined.
Mike (25:17.472)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (25:22.097)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (25:26.112)
Right?
Mike (25:30.958)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (25:31.175)
At that point, I feel like I have to keep moving around. I feel like I'm always doing something. I don't sit around a lot, but again, back to when I took that trip and that, again, Ozarks and Oklahoma City and all that stuff. And I mean, yes, I was running around doing some shit, especially in the Ozarks because I was there longer. But even when I was in Memphis, after I ate and I was...
Mike (25:36.8)
Right?
Mike (25:45.184)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (25:56.623)
I was just sitting on this, it wasn't a stoop, it was almost like this flower pot type of thing. Next, between like two of the bars, and I was just watching, they had a couple of street performers out there and was people watching. I was on Instagram here and there a little bit, I was taking some pictures and whatever and posting them, but just kind of sitting there doing nothing, because I had time. And same thing in the Ozarks, when I took the walks and stuff like that, or just.
Mike (26:14.381)
Right?
Mike (26:18.038)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Bill (26:24.379)
I just sit there and stare at shit for a minute, and I'm like, man, it's fucking nice. But then again, I had no place to be, nothing specifically to do. I had some work stuff that I was doing here and there while I was there, but I had these blocks of time set aside where I didn't have to do anything, and it was wonderful, it was great. And like you said, not something I could have.
Mike (26:28.15)
Yeah, right.
Mike (26:48.778)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Bill (26:52.711)
That's something I could have done years ago, and I didn't do years ago.
Mike (26:54.646)
No, right. Exactly. You know, I mean, I'm, I'm craving it because you know, we're, we're four weeks out from laying on a beach in Mexico, man, and I'm just fucking, I cannot wait to just, yeah, right. Just sit there in a chair, you know, I have a book with me and just, and then the ocean in front of me and the sun shining and Oh God, I cannot fucking wait.
Bill (27:18.503)
Yeah. Well, and I started, you know, I've been kind of looking around because kind of once I get my shit in order and, you know, start to move around a little bit and just trying to figure out, you know, where I'd like to go, you know, first and stuff like that or what or when or, you know, I've been looking at it. I think I mentioned to you, like, you know, the Carolinas and stuff like that. Like, you know, there's a couple of places like Carolina Beach and North Carolina. There's Myrtle Beach and all these all these places off season. Get these Airbnbs for relatively cheap and they're right on the ocean.
Mike (27:27.413)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (27:37.646)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (27:45.494)
right. Mm hmm.
Bill (27:48.327)
And then the first thing I did, I started looking at the weather and I'm like, and I see highest 60 and low, maybe 40 something, I go, fuck it. That's not, and then I stopped myself. I'm like, wait a second. It would have been, it's basically January and February that I'm looking at. And it's a highest 60 and a low of 40 and no snow, no fucking snow. And in these places that I'm looking at, it would be there like condos. It would be right on the ocean. And I'm like, who the fuck are you to complain? You know, I mean, once.
Mike (27:57.954)
Hehehehehehe
Mike (28:01.942)
Right. Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (28:12.014)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (28:16.755)
Right.
Bill (28:17.379)
Once I can, if I can afford to do it, that's what I wanna do. And I'm like, what do I care? I get, and I just, then I start thinking about it. Like in my mind, I'm like you just said, sitting on a porch with a book, whatever. Clearly I'd be, you know, I'd be working, it'd be a normal day, but, or normal days, but you know, weekends, nights, mornings, you know, so I gotta have a jacket on and a pair of fucking sweats and sit outside and do my reading and it's 60 degrees, you know, okay. What the, what the fuck's wrong with you? You know, me.
Mike (28:34.03)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (28:39.434)
Right. Uh huh. Right. Uh huh. Uh huh.
Bill (28:45.987)
as I'm speaking to myself. But again, that goes back to everything I always talk about. It's so easy for me to forget to be grateful. The fact that I could do something like that, and it's not some extravagant place or anything like that. They're nice, but they're affordable based on what I want to do, and based on where they're are, they'd be clean and comfortable and on the fucking ocean. And I'm like, Jesus Christ.
Mike (28:48.686)
Hmm.
Mike (28:57.678)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (29:06.222)
Mm-hmm. Great.
Mike (29:11.446)
Yep.
Bill (29:14.863)
Yeah, I need to get my... It's not even getting my priorities set. I just gotta get my fucking mind on track every once in a while. It's just stupid. You know, but again, that's...
Mike (29:21.178)
Mm hmm. Right. But again, that's yeah. Right. Cause as soon as we stop doing what we're supposed to do, it starts to fade and our shit takes over and then we got to go, wait a minute. Hey asshole.
Bill (29:31.536)
Right? Yeah, I had a, was it yesterday or the, yeah it was yesterday, I had a meeting that I was kind of pumped up about. It didn't go bad, but I don't think it's gonna go in the way that I wanted it to, but you know, and I was kind of grumbly about it. I'm like, fuck man, I should have done this research more, should have done this, all these different things, and then.
You know, so this was like at one o'clock in the afternoon that I had this meeting, one or 1.30. And then, so kind of all day it's in the back of my head and I'm kind of like, like what the fuck in myself, you know, and I'm kicking myself in the ass and all this different shit. And speaking of, you know, again, capping out the day when I laid down at night, you know, I thought, I'm like, you know what? I said, basically I was kind of redoing all the shit in my head. And I'm like, based on this, this and this, first of all, I went into it.
Mike (30:19.094)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (30:22.599)
giving it my best effort. That's all I ever hoped for, you know? Best effort, put my best foot forward. It's based on all my mind. If this wasn't a right fit, whatever the deal is for this thing, whatever, man. I mean, I can't change that part of it. And I went to sleep. And I'm like, but here's the thing, you know, I walk around all day, but the minute I lay down in that, again, it's in this recovery mode and I get my head straight again. Fucking weird, but in a really, really good way. Just a really good way.
Mike (30:26.199)
Right?
Mike (30:37.987)
Nope. Mm-hmm.
Mike (30:47.976)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Right.
Bill (30:51.879)
But the other thing that I wrote, well, first of all, anything else on the reading? I mean, I think we kind of talked about that. But anything else? Any thoughts on the reading?
Mike (31:01.97)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I think we covered it.
Bill (31:03.635)
Okay, so the only other thing I thought about, just kind of not out of the ordinary, but with the holidays and stuff like that coming up, I made a note here, have Mike do his holiday event advice. So, because I love when you do it. You've been doing it now for a year and a half and every time we have a holiday come up. So Mike, the holidays are coming up. It might be hard for us to stay sober. How do we do it?
Mike (31:16.558)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Mike (31:22.126)
Mm.
Mike (31:25.774)
Ah. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Dragon, Amber and Lydia along with me. Um, it's going to be nice. It's going to be, you know, but I don't have any expectations. It's going to be some magical, wonderful thing. It's going to be the people that I love together, hanging out. That's what it is. And God knows that's more than enough. Um, so yeah, don't, don't overinflate things. Um, you know, especially if you're early in recovery, you're not going to fix everything. Cause, um,
Guess what? You're probably not even working the fucking ninth step yet. So settle down and, um, and guess what? You're never going to finish that ninth step, which we've talked about plenty of times. So, um, yeah, you know, go and, uh, you know, just, uh, do what you can be there. Be a good person. Um, you know, contribute to it positively and you're, you're going to have a good time, um, you know, and have an escape plan. That's one of the big ones.
Bill (32:25.992)
Hahaha
Mike (32:51.61)
Um, you know, a lot of us, uh, we come from families, um, you know, we did this, this thing that we have didn't just come out of thin air. Some of us it did, but, um, most of us, it didn't, we came from someplace and, um, you know, I know my family definitely liked to rip it up pretty damn good on holidays. Um, and I couldn't wait to join in. Um, you know, I just, uh, couldn't stop once I joined in.
Bill (33:04.425)
Ha ha ha!
Mike (33:21.014)
Um, so yes, you know, if you're going to be, um, you know, first of all, if you're not ready to be in that sort of an environment, don't fucking go. Um, there's plenty of things for us to do, you know, um, if you're in any sort of, um, populated area, um, there's going to be Alcathons going on, you know, Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's, um, there's a club, you know, sober clubs everywhere and they have 24 hours of meetings. There's a place to go to be with us.
And, um, you know, but yeah, again, have that escape plan, you know, go show up, say hi to mom and grandma and whatever, whoever else you got to fucking say hi to, you know, and cousin Jerry keeps going to the bathroom to powder his nose. Um, leave him the fuck alone. Don't go with them. Um, I don't know where Jerry came from, but all right. Um, yes, but have that escape plan. You know, if you can, if you're early in sobriety, um, you know, there's probably going to be somebody in your circle.
Bill (34:03.839)
Hahaha
Bill (34:12.328)
Hehehehe
Mike (34:20.662)
that doesn't have a place to go for various reasons. They may have burned all those bridges, they don't have any place to go. They may be in a different area because they had to get out of where they were at to start getting this recovery thing. So they may not have their people within distance, take somebody with you. It's always better to not do anything alone in early recovery.
And, um, and again, have that escape plan, have a number, have those phone numbers, you know, have, have people you can call, you know, sometimes all you're going to need to do is just call somebody in the program and say, Hey man, I'm having a rough time and talk to them. And you know, that moment that you were having will pass and, um, you can go back and sit with grandma for another half an hour and then get the fuck out of there. You know, it doesn't have to be everything. Um, and you're always getting, if you're doing this thing and you're doing it right, you will have next year.
make it better and then the year after that to make it better because you're gonna be better to be able to make it better for the others around you. So yeah I don't know I can't think of anything else those pretty much cover it don't do it by yourself if you're not ready don't do it at all and have a way to get out of there safely. The most important thing is January 6th man sobriety is the most important thing and that day on the calendar isn't all that important.
Cause you know what? The day after that day on the calendar is another day that you're gonna have to fucking do shit. So make sure you're there to do that shit.
Bill (35:57.287)
Right. Yeah, and I think I'd have to listen back. Maybe I will now to last year's episode. I remember Uncle Jerry came up and I think we, uh, we talked about something sexually inappropriate with Uncle Jerry too, but I don't, I don't somehow, as soon as you said Uncle Jerry, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I think we made some sort of inappropriate comment about Uncle Jerry and it wasn't just him powdering his nose. But, um, but yeah, I mean, the, the escape plan is the biggest thing. You know, we,
Mike (36:05.666)
Yeah
Ah, I don't know. His hot whiskey breath on your ear.
Mike (36:20.502)
Hmm. So maybe I'm a little healthier than I was a year ago. Is that what you're trying to say?
Bill (36:30.995)
It was, well, whoever brought it up, one of us did. So I don't know if we're healthy or just, one of us just didn't tee up the inappropriate, you know, sexual innuendo this year. That's all. But, and we talked about our, you know, our first holidays, and there was a couple episodes when we talked about it specifically. But that is 100%, all of what you said, and that's why you say the same things every single time. And that's why I keep asking you to do it, because it is, it's that repetition. It's comforting to me.
Mike (36:41.087)
Alright!
Bill (36:59.163)
You know, to hear it, you know, it's always been comforting to me to hear the same things over and over because it's it is it's a it's a point of comfort because I know that you know you don't change with that the people that we've known for years that taught us all that shit don't change, you know, hopefully. Yeah, and in the one the biggest thing you know both of our sponsors said was that escape plan thing and again to this day, you know, and even if we i'll say it again, we are so fortunate to have the family situation that we do.
Mike (36:59.376)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mike (37:04.652)
Right.
Mike (37:12.918)
Yeah, the truth doesn't change.
Mike (37:20.511)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mike (37:28.419)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (37:29.303)
But, you know, and if shit went weird, you know, I got a couple of bucks in my pocket in a car. I can leave, you know. I mean, it's, and that's, it's nothing against my sister or my family or anything like that. It just, right, right. Yeah, we'll go find, find a prostitute one of in a cheap motel or something like that, you know.
Mike (37:33.262)
Mmm. Right? Yup. Mm-hmm.
Mike (37:42.086)
Right. Kathy gets all fucked up and starts throwing shit around.
Mike (37:52.982)
Wow. All right. Well, I was going to just get the motel, but you know, I'm going to have the girls with me, but you know, yeah, get them their own room and there you go.
Bill (38:01.248)
Right? But no, I mean, there is a certain freedom in that knowing that, you know, having that escape plan and I think that's the biggest thing. Yeah. So, yeah, always drive yourself to. Make sure that, you know, or go with somebody that does not, you know, doesn't have a problem with leaving when or if you want to. So, all right. Mike's message of hope, once again.
Mike (38:09.906)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike (38:18.286)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yep.
Mike (38:24.623)
Uh huh.
Bill (38:26.079)
And on that, what do you think on that message of hope? I think it's time for a hopeful message. I was gonna, I got nothing. Take a break, huh? Ha ha ha.
Mike (38:32.822)
Yeah, exactly. All right. We'll be back with more rambling nonsense right after this word from our sponsor.
Bill (38:48.535)
Alrighty everyone welcome back and yeah rambling nonsense. That was about it I didn't even know what the fuck I was trying to say and I'm like, I just That's the cool part again I keep saying that the cool part about this is that you know If either we just keep talking until it makes sense, that's number one or we're just like fuck it I have no idea what I'm talking about and we just go on so
Mike (38:52.334)
Mm-hmm.
Hehehehehehe
Mike (39:04.502)
Mm.
Mike (39:07.83)
Right. Just, you know, not make sense for a few minutes and then stop.
Bill (39:12.804)
Right. Well, and how many times has there been, you know, we're sitting there talking all of a sudden like, God, I had no fucking idea where I was going with that. Like, okay, it'll come to me. And we start over. So.
Mike (39:19.79)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, exactly. Well, I know I've done a little bit of damage to myself, so occasionally it fades out. Yep.
Bill (39:29.284)
Right. But there was, and I don't remember where I heard it from, it might actually be the, I think it was the morning show that I still listen to. They said that, that every once in a while that when they're on the air, and this was years ago, they did, they say they'd forget what they were talking about. They said, well, we just always keep talking and until it makes sense again, or until it doesn't. I'm like, that's kind of great advice. But it was always funny because you...
Mike (39:49.24)
Right.
Bill (39:53.743)
Sometimes you could tell, but most of the time, you couldn't really tell. So it was actually kind of funny. But all right, so we do have a, and I'll call it a listener question, but she's also, excuse me, one of our followers. Hang on one second, pause.
Mike (39:55.758)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (40:11.83)
Yep, pause. He's going to clear his throat.
Bill (40:15.923)
Yeah, that was weird. I'm sitting there talking all of a sudden, I got this fucking throat bubble. So, you know, that's unprofessional. Yeah, what are you doing over there? None of your business, God damn it. What I do in the comfort of my own space is my own problem. Yeah, my own throat. All right, so she is one of our followers that interacts with us a lot at Instagram.
Mike (40:20.159)
Hehehehe. Ah, hmm. Hey, throat bubble.
Mike (40:25.902)
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey
Bill (40:41.991)
I know she's a listener. She also, she's the one that left the review for us that said both of them are immature. One's more immature than the other, but wouldn't, wouldn't. Yeah, you're like, oh yeah. But wouldn't tell us which one. So I just thought it was still kind of funny. But so I had posted about, you know, like listener questions and things like that. And then I think that's what Megan saw that too. So we got some questions for her. But so this was from the other person.
Mike (40:42.188)
Okay?
Mike (40:49.418)
Oh yeah.
Mike (40:54.434)
Right.
Mike (41:01.859)
Mm hmm. Right.
Bill (41:09.295)
I have a possible topic for a future podcast. I don't think you've touched on this. We have though. I recently observed 1,400 days of continuous sobriety. When I told this to one of my kids, she was wondering what was the big deal like if you slipped for a day or two, why not just subtract back to the last day sober? So again, 1,400 minus one, blah, blah. But she said rather than resetting the clock,
Mike (41:19.118)
Nice.
Mike (41:29.518)
Hehehehehehehehehehe Stupid fucking kid Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (41:37.527)
And she said it kind of threw her off. She didn't know how to, you know, answer it other than honesty and motivation. You know, and then she even tried to look online and couldn't find anything meaningful. So she said it may be there and I haven't found it. She said, maybe I'd like the sober, not mature spin on the whole thing. So she said, thanks in advance. So now the thing with it is, and we have talked about it, but the fact that it came from getting these questions from a child, and I don't know how old the child is, you know.
Mike (41:41.099)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mike (41:55.744)
Yeah, all right.
Mike (42:04.866)
Mm. Right.
Bill (42:07.708)
Sometimes it is, it's all of us understand the deal, the reset and the clock and the whole bit. But I don't know, take that for what it's worth. So just days, slipping a day, let's call it a slip because we don't like that term anyhow. But again, slip to the side for a day and why don't we continue rather than reset? In the most simplest of terms, right?
Mike (42:13.171)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (42:21.222)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (42:28.977)
Aha! Well...
All right. Well, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. No. No, there isn't. So no. This is a.
Bill (42:37.224)
Hehehehe
Mike (42:47.082)
I quit drinking every fucking day. I passed out. Um, stopping doesn't mean anything. It's continuing. It's continuous sobriety is what is important. Um, so yeah, you know, I can't, I can't take a break from this thing. I can't take a vacation. I'm going, you know, going for a week to have a vacation. I can't go down there and do whatever the hell I want.
Um, you know, it's an all inclusive. I mean, there's booze everywhere when we go down there. Um, thankfully my girlfriend, Chris doesn't drink. She will have occasionally she'll have one. One time we were down there, they accidentally gave her a, uh, a loaded pina colada and she drank it, you know, and it was fine. I mean, she looked at me, she asked me, I said, I'll give a shit. You know, that's you, you do what you want. And she did. And it was fine, you know, but, um, no, it's I.
This is a continuous thing. Like I said, I stopped every fucking day. I passed out. You know, I literally physically stopped drinking every day. I've talked about it before, you know, I was not a maintenance drinker. I couldn't do that. So I would, you know, the days when I could get my ass to work, I didn't drink during the day when I was at work. You know, I stopped every day. And then I started again every day because I couldn't help myself.
Bill (44:06.599)
Hehehe
Mike (44:09.43)
Yeah, the important thing of doing this thing is not stopping this thing. You know, I mean, we've talked about that plenty of times too, you know, everybody that relapses slips, whatever they stop working the program. Um, and then they go back to doing what they do. That's what we all do. Um, the importance of doing this is the continuous sobriety. It's not, I don't get a vacation from this. I can't.
You know, if I get a vacation from this, I'm gone. I'm, you know, I'm never coming back permanent vacation, as, uh, Aerosmith said. Um, right. Yeah. It's so, um, if you do for whatever reason, um, stop doing this thing and start doing what we do, um, that time you have before does not count. It just doesn't, you know, um.
I don't know if that really does explain it, explains it to me.
Bill (45:09.583)
And you know what, this is one, the fact that I read it, and then there's another thing after this that I wanna get your opinion on whether we talk about, but it all kind of deals with the same type of thing. So this hit me two different times. So I had a chance to, I tried not to think about these things because I don't wanna cloud myself before we get on here, but I had a couple of thoughts. So the first thought, if you're in a 12-step program,
Mike (45:18.431)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (45:31.342)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (45:37.559)
and you drink again, whether it's for a minute, a day, a week, or a month, or whatever it is, that means that you did not understand the first step. And the first step is simple. Powerless over alcohol and drugs, life is unmanageable. And if you drink again, then you failed the first step and you're going to start over. So that's, from a 12-step standpoint, that part is simple. Now, I thought about it on a life standpoint, so trying to explain it to a kid.
Mike (45:42.638)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (46:06.335)
And it made me think of video games. You know, video games have levels. You know, if you get to level 26 and you get killed in your video game, you don't start at level 26 and keep moving on. They take you all the way back to level one, you know? So that's on a kid level. Then I thought about, like, I don't know, Guinness records, Guinness Book of World Records type of things, anything like that. You know, if the Guinness Book of World Records for dribbling a basketball is 725 times,
Mike (46:10.859)
Right?
Mike (46:15.476)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (46:19.158)
Right.
Bill (46:35.015)
the guy gets up to 724 and the ball slips, he doesn't just get to continue. Right. That is the most ridiculous example I can provide, but it is. You know, it's a continuation type of thing. So, you know, again, loyal listener, hopefully that makes a little bit of sense, at least that's how we make sense of it.
Mike (46:35.042)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (46:40.907)
Right, he doesn't get to pick it back up, bounce it two more times. Hey, I'm a world record winner. That's good. I like that.
Mike (46:52.086)
Hmm, but it's yeah
Mike (46:58.286)
Mm-hmm.
Hehehehe. Yeah. Right.
Bill (47:04.423)
But if nothing else, even putting it on, to try to explain the 12 steps to a child might be probably the most difficult one. Depending on age, I think the video game thing could be an easy correlation. And then the Guinness Book of World Records just made me laugh. And then you added the perfect thing on there. The guy gets back up and just goes, boom, boom. OK, guy, I'm a record holder. Hey, look at me.
Mike (47:10.306)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mike (47:19.158)
Yeah. The bouncing the basketball. Yeah, that's, that's perfect. Yeah.
Mike (47:30.334)
Hey, I am the champion. Cue the Queen song.
Bill (47:36.948)
Yeah, he may have, you know, trying to get to that point, whoever got, you know, if it is, I didn't look up the record, got it. I think I would shit myself if it was actually was 725, but you know, the guy probably bounced the ball, whoever gets the world record for that probably bounced it a million times to get the record, you know. And that's the same thing when people talk about in, and she put this in exactly in here.
Mike (47:44.043)
Yeah.
Mike (47:48.098)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (47:53.886)
Oh, you're right.
Bill (48:00.975)
She said that she recently observed 1,400 days of it. She used the word continuous sobriety, which to begin with, I had trouble with that statement because I'm like, duh, but to your point, you're the one that made sense to me about it is that, yeah, the part of it, it is continuous. We have to do that. And stating to somebody, yeah, maybe I fucked up for years, but this is what I have now. I have 1,400 days or I have 10 years or I have.
Mike (48:04.927)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (48:13.195)
Hmm.
Mike (48:25.774)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (48:28.403)
whatever of continuous sobriety, then it made sense to me. But yeah, it was just one of those things where I like the way he said to you, like, did that make sense? Did I explain it? Well, it makes sense to me. But that kind of led into another thing. So I don't know. I'm getting, I'm going to let you make the decision on this. I'm getting kind of worn out in this whole Matthew Perry thing. But.
Mike (48:40.622)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Mike (48:56.448)
Hmm.
Bill (48:57.563)
I came across an article, it was an LA Times article, and part of it, I don't know, a couple of things in here I agree with and a couple I don't. And I just, if it's up to you, it might make for an interesting couple of minute conversation based on this, guys. Okay. So give me just a second. Like I say, I don't want to get a...
Mike (49:01.271)
Uh-huh.
Mike (49:06.839)
Hmm.
Mike (49:14.07)
Yeah, let's do it. Right.
Alright.
Bill (49:20.679)
I don't know, again, this whole fucking Matthew Perry thing, it's just like any other, no offense to him or his family or anything like that, but it just seriously, I'm getting kind of burned out by the whole thing. I just, everyone's talking about it, I get it, you know? But...
Mike (49:26.315)
Mmm.
Mike (49:30.982)
Right. Well, you know, yeah, he's the latest, most famous casualty of this disease. You know? Yeah. One way or another. I mean, you know, and again, we don't know if he, but certainly, you know, it was, uh, either directly or indirectly. To, to, you know, nobody drops dead at 54 years old, you know, Jesus Christ. I mean, you know, I'm going to be 57 in a couple of months, you know, and I sure as hell wouldn't be if I'd, uh, kept going the way I was going, so, yeah. Right.
Bill (50:00.103)
Well, I told you I started listening to his book, didn't I? Oh, okay. Yeah, and I did on my way up to Appleton last weekend. So I'm probably, I'm a few hours into it. It's like an eight hour book. And I'm gonna listen to it on the way out to Ohio and back. I'll end up finishing it up and then I'll give you my opinions on it, but no spoiler alerts on there. But the, so the headline.
Mike (50:04.262)
No, no, you said you, you're, you're thinking about it. Right.
Mike (50:11.598)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mike (50:18.418)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Bill (50:27.919)
This is an opinion article and I'll end up reading off the guy's name because he's a I Mean, it's his name is Shawn Daniels doubt. This guy's 12 years sober. Okay, this author or the writer So it's an opinion article. What will this the title? What will the Matthew Perry? Toxicology results read or reveal here's why it shouldn't matter. So again, it hooked me and I'm like well
Mike (50:29.838)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (50:37.1)
Okay.
Uh huh. Yeah.
Mike (50:48.866)
Hmm.
Mike (50:53.035)
Yeah, yeah, right.
Bill (50:55.495)
So he's talking about official cause of death and blah, and people talking about whether or not he relapsed. And it said that, it said even in the addiction recovery world, it says, I've heard people suggest Perry's legacy depends on whether the pending toxicology reports shows he suffered a relapse. They couldn't be more wrong. So there's things in here that I agree with and things I don't agree with. And
Mike (51:01.162)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (51:15.374)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Right.
Bill (51:21.199)
I don't think his, personally, I don't think his legacy is going to be affected whether he was or wasn't. You know, I mean, he, he's got a, he's got a book of work. He tried to help people. If it got him in the end, then it got him in the end. You know, I mean, that, that kind of is what it is. But it's saying that, that says he changed the conversation about addiction in our country. More people will get help because of his bravery. Fewer people will die. Opinion, what do you think? And I have a thought, but.
Mike (51:32.062)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Mike (51:42.268)
Right?
Mike (51:53.444)
Um, I mean, I don't think it was that big of a deal. Um, you know, yes, he did. You know, he brought the conversation to probably places that it wouldn't have normally been. Um, just from the vanilla white bread, wonder bread, you know, middle America mayonnaise eating motherfuckers out there, um, that watch friends, you know.
Bill (52:18.112)
Right.
Mike (52:20.298)
Um, yeah, yeah. You know, so yes, uh, it probably. Again, you know, shine the light where maybe that light wasn't going to be shown, um, otherwise. Um, but you know, no, but none of us can save any lives, you know? Um, shit, you know, uh, Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob, those guys, you know, they put it down and, and yeah, they, they helped. They saved my life. Um,
But they, you know, they're both dead too. So there you go. Um, um, yeah, you know, so I guess, you know, I don't know how many lives will be saved. Um, you certainly, you know, he, he opened some beds up. He gave, he may have, uh, provided a few more opportunities that weren't there before, you know, which is great. I'm not trying to belittle that. I'm just saying, you know, yeah, you know.
Bill (52:53.521)
Hahaha!
Mike (53:18.702)
Um, maybe the conversation is in places that it wasn't before. And certainly the physical, the hardware, if you will, of, of having some beds and having places for people to go absolutely helps, you know, but other than that. Settle down.
Bill (53:37.755)
Right. Yeah. And he's not, you know, the, the next coming of, you know, whatever people think Christ is or anything like that. I mean, he's, he's a literally, and again, the only thing I'll talk about his book. I mean, this dude's fucking hardcore. Okay. Um, you know, with, with all this stuff and, uh, so garden variety, every, uh, we know, we know a thousand people like him. Um, with the exception that he was on a hit TV show and had millions of dollars. And to your point, I like the way you put that. He, he put it,
Mike (53:49.99)
Mm-hmm. Great.
Mike (53:58.655)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Right.
Bill (54:05.791)
in places that it may never have gotten because of who he was in the show he was on and the only other thing I was going to say on that is that I think that he might Unfortunately, and it happens he might save more lives in his death than he did while he was alive because Again, this is blown up and like I said, i'm getting kind of tired of it, but it's everywhere now So that's not a bad thing You know, it's not a bad thing that it's out there everywhere and the fact that i'm getting tired of it is
Mike (54:09.062)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Mike (54:27.278)
Hmm.
Mike (54:31.242)
Alright. Bye!
Bill (54:35.175)
doesn't mean a fucking thing. I'm not all that either, you know, so. Was saying that, okay, so that type of thinking, oh, hang on, hang on, one second, did I miss any part? No. That part of thinking exactly what keeps people sick. Shame is an ally of addiction, and this notion threatens people in recovery with the possibility of extra shame that no matter what you do to get sober, if it ends poorly, it was all worth nothing. So.
Mike (54:37.124)
Right.
Mike (54:53.114)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (55:04.194)
Hmm.
Bill (55:04.887)
I'm going to say first, I disagree with that statement. None of us, I know I've never said it, I know you've never said it. Anyone that we've ever been around has never said that, what that person, just because if they, even if they died sober, that it meant nothing, you know, and I don't know, he's lumping together a whole group of people, which I think is wrong, you know, in that statement, so.
Mike (55:08.513)
Right.
Mike (55:19.648)
Right?
Mike (55:26.058)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, yeah, of course it's bullshit. I mean, you know, I've got, I clearly had friends that were sober for a while and then they weren't and then they died. Um, and yeah, you know, they, they taught me things, um, that, that didn't, that doesn't go away. It's, I still have those lessons learned, both good and bad. Like we always say, there's no bad examples. Um, and that's true with, you know, whatever from some dude in Cleveland or, you know,
Matthew Perry in fucking Hollywood. Yeah.
Bill (55:58.971)
Right. Now this next paragraph and this one kind of, and again, this is where I started looking to see, I didn't realize it, at the point of this, this point in the article that I was reading it, I didn't realize this guy was sober until like the next paragraph after this. But it says, even in the recovery world where we say, so he did say we here, say relapse is a part of recovery, which we don't say that.
Mike (56:12.064)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (56:20.084)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (56:25.066)
Right? Hehehehehehe
Bill (56:26.075)
Um, if you're using the collective we, sir, don't include us with that because we don't. Um, the most val- yeah, sir. Sir. You have fucking male, you have male Karen. No, it doesn't. And then here's the, here's the other part. He says the most valued story is that of a person seen as fully recovered. I'm like, no such thing. And then he's like, he goes, he says, we value time, the unspoken message to a newcomer.
Mike (56:30.062)
Uh huh. Sir. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Mike (56:47.572)
Right?
Bill (56:53.659)
is that those with the most time know the most. No, it's not. Okay, because every sentence in that paragraph, with the exception, well, all of them, it's a complete paragraph full of bullshit. Ha ha ha.
Mike (56:58.283)
No, right.
Mike (57:04.942)
Uh-huh. Right. Well, um, I mean, that's, um, no, I've heard all that shit in California. Um, right. Yeah. That's, that's, that's some California recovery there. Not California, sober California recovery. And it is different. We've talked about it plenty of times here. Um, yeah, you know, whatever. And, and there's plenty of people, including this guy, apparently that, you know, it works for it and they stay sober and blah, blah. Doesn't, you know,
Bill (57:18.108)
Really? Okay.
Mike (57:34.154)
We're full of shit too, people. Don't worry about it. There's, there's stuff we have wrong. And, but at least we know that, you know, um, and, and are willing to be called out on it and, and at least I'll think about it. You tell me I'm wrong. Tell me how I'm wrong. And I will think about it. I may not be, I may not agree with you in the end. I, I might, I might go fuck man. I was wrong. Or I might go now you're full of shit. I'm right. Either way though, I will think about it.
Bill (57:37.382)
hahahaha
Bill (58:03.219)
Right? Well, and that is the one thing about, I don't know, I mean, we don't put, you know, fucking disclaimers on here, we don't put trigger warnings, you know, we don't put any of that shit on here, you know, because we don't believe in it. But we're always very, we're also very clear about that these things are our opinions. We will make suggestions based on what we were taught, and we make suggestions based on things that we've learned, but we have been approached with in.
Mike (58:12.95)
Mm-mm. Ooh, no.
Mike (58:24.51)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mike (58:30.027)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (58:32.091)
You know, I mean, just we've been able to experience things through this podcast, different people, different, different ways of recovery. Some we agree with, some we don't, you know, but if we don't agree with it, we say why, and it's usually why it wouldn't work for us. Not that, not that we're belittling the other person. But I don't know. I just thought that whole paragraph was, and he just was like lumping in this whole group of people, like all of us. And I'm like, nope, no.
Mike (58:36.781)
Mm-mm.
Mike (58:45.07)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mm-mm.
Mike (58:57.07)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (58:59.347)
But then next paragraph, so he says, when you're a relapser like me, and I was a professional relapser, what you hear is that everything you learned during your last sober stint is worthless, and you're now back to square one. And how many times can you hear that before your tire's starting over? And I thought, Jesus Christ, you know? Again, maybe that's what...
Mike (59:05.36)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (59:20.91)
Hmm. Well, first of all, that's bullshit too, because yeah, you're right. Everything. Yeah. Right. You may not have applied it and worked it and whatever, but I mean, you know, yes, that bullshit California stuff that I got when I was 30, I, I incorporate some of that stuff in my life today. You know, certainly 12 years later when I actually started working this program. Um, yeah, there were seeds planted.
Bill (59:25.8)
Right, exactly.
Mike (59:50.158)
There's, there's a reason that's a phrase in the program. There are seeds planted, you know, they're in there. They didn't, they didn't germinate. They were sitting in my shit and didn't start to grow, but they were in there. Yeah, that's it. God. Okay. Yeah, definitely California.
Bill (59:59.935)
Hahaha
Bill (01:00:07.123)
Yeah, I know it just, you know, cause I thought about that when he was saying that, you know, everything's worthless the last time you draw back to square one. Yes, you're back to square one as far as starting over with, you know, the days and things like that your day one. But I mean, I've never heard anyone tell anyone that, you know, actually it's been the opposite. I've never heard anyone tell anyone that what they've learned is worthless. I've heard people tell people that realize that everything you learned, okay, figure out the little things we got to pull out what
Mike (01:00:17.739)
Right.
Mike (01:00:29.518)
Hmm.
Mike (01:00:33.966)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:00:36.947)
what didn't work, you know, everything else was good. And I used to remember, I remember talking to people and saying, okay, so, you know, you were doing this, this and this and everything was going along. When you got to that fork in the road that was basically the fuck it fork, you know, fuck it, I'm going over here or fuck it, I'm gonna continue. Why did you choose the other direction? What was going on with you? What were you, what weren't you doing? You know, let's figure out that piece. Yeah.
Mike (01:00:38.667)
Right?
Mike (01:00:50.879)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:01:00.982)
Right. What weren't you willing to do? Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. Cause clearly, you know, you got to that fork. So you were doing something, right. Something was when you were working something, you know, cause you made it whatever 40, 60, 90, you know, a year, um, sober without picking up a drink or a drug, which is pretty fucking amazing. Um, right. But then, you know, you either stop doing something or you weren't willing to take that next step.
Um, to work on whatever and, and you went back to the easier, softer way, you know, said, well, fuck, I can't do that. So I'm just going to go get loaded because it's easier. I need that ease and comfort. And, um, well, you know, yeah, that's, that's bullshit. It was all waste. God.
Bill (01:01:49.416)
I wish I would have printed this out. I could have, if I could just check off every paragraph, it was bullshit. We've got quite a few of them so far. But, so here's the paragraph that goes now back to our listener question about starting over, okay? So if you were driving across the country, and this is from the guy, this is from the guy, not me, Sean. Sean, and it is spelled, it's, we're just gonna, let's call him Seam, because that's how it's spelled.
Mike (01:01:53.866)
Hmm. I'm sure.
Mike (01:02:01.318)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (01:02:09.575)
Mm-hmm. All right, shine.
Mike (01:02:16.386)
Ah, right, yeah, yeah.
Bill (01:02:17.963)
So this is from Seen. If you were driving across the country and your car broke down, would you get it fixed and then go back to where you started your trip to begin again? That doesn't make any sense, which is true. That doesn't make any sense what you're saying, Seen. But it's exactly how we talk about addiction and relapse. No, it's not. Right. Because here's the thing. So this is I.
Mike (01:02:24.546)
Uh-huh.
Mike (01:02:33.527)
Mm.
Mike (01:02:39.882)
No, that's how you talk about it, scene.
Bill (01:02:46.787)
I'll take a look. I don't think there's anything else in the article. At this point, I was just kind of like, like literally screaming in my head, but it's time I got to this part. But, so here's the thing. Here's the major difference between, even though everything in that paragraph is wrong and we don't look at it that way and blah, blah. If your car breaks down, that is outside of your control. Okay. I've never, never met anyone that said, I'm going to take a trip.
Mike (01:02:54.413)
Uh.
Mike (01:03:07.745)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:03:13.807)
And I'm going to, at some point during the trip said, I'm going to make my car break down right now and did something to make their car break down. Either, right, or just drove along and reached outside with a gun and blew the tire out or something like that. So that's, right, right. So that would be something that would be of their control. I had, well, I was in Beaver Dam and my car broke down. Okay, now.
Mike (01:03:19.146)
Right. Pop the hood and start working with a hammer.
Mike (01:03:29.82)
Mm hmm. Just drive off a bridge.
Mike (01:03:38.946)
Right.
Bill (01:03:41.427)
I did not do that on purpose. You know, it just, that was life. Life happened to me, okay? A relapse doesn't just happen to you. It is something that you physically put a substance into your body somehow. We've already discussed that on here too, if. And I think the, wasn't the example of somebody broke into your house, knocked you up, and shot you up with heroin?
Mike (01:03:46.798)
Uh-huh.
Mike (01:03:56.332)
Right.
Mike (01:04:06.478)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (01:04:08.323)
And that's what I'm like, I'm like, oh, so that's going to be your story. Now let me write that down. Mike's, Oh, so Mike's house got broken into somebody broke in, knocked him out and shot him up with here. And I'm okay. All right. But, but no, that's if somebody spikes your drink or something like that, that's not a relapse that didn't, that didn't happen to you. So this whole thing about your car breaking down is ridiculous. Now.
Mike (01:04:12.646)
Right. Yeah. Like somebody's going to fucking waste their drugs on me.
Mike (01:04:29.718)
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Mike (01:04:36.705)
Right.
Bill (01:04:37.095)
I'll even go so far as to say, give this guy a little bit of rope but still prove him wrong. If you got a flat tire, okay, you're not just going to put a couple of pieces of duct tape on the tire, put some air in it and keep driving along. You're going to make sure to fix that broken part, right? Which is something that we do as human beings and as alcoholics and drug addicts, if something went bad and we relapsed, we got to fix that piece exactly what we were talking about. But yes, we do start over, you know?
Mike (01:04:57.739)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:05:05.134)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Bill (01:05:06.579)
We're not going to use that. We're not going to do the same things. That's the definition of insanity, right? So.
Mike (01:05:12.03)
Right, right. And it's a poor analogy to talk about living in the moment. We can't go back to where we started. You know, when I got sober at 42, I couldn't go back to where I was at 30 to start over, you know, I, I was 42. I couldn't go back and be 30 again. So I can't the car trip. Yeah, that's stupid. You can't go back because that's, it's not there anymore. It's physically impossible to go back to where you started. Yeah, that's dumb.
Bill (01:05:33.164)
Alright.
Bill (01:05:39.347)
Right. I know it was, it was. And then when I, and I caught on like a little bit later on in the article, it's, it's talking about people in recovery and he says, yes, of course there's value in having 12 years compared to seven days. And that's where I actually looked at, I ended up looking it up and figured out, yeah, that, you know, he does talk about a lot of, you know, sober jerks and things like that, things that I agree with and things that I know you agree with. But I mean, he just kind of touches on all those little things, but then just, I don't know.
Mike (01:05:41.35)
Hahaha!
Mike (01:05:53.768)
Mm.
Mike (01:06:01.506)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:06:07.235)
But then he does talk about the world record for sobriety, the 24 hours, which again, we all have one day, blah, blah. And we get it. We're never trying to poo-poo that idea. We understand living a day at a time. But time fucking matters if you're using that time right. You could be, to his point, and he said it in here, there's a lot of sober jerks out there. There's people with 15, 20, 25. There's people with 30 days or 30 years that are fucking assholes. And just because they're sober.
Mike (01:06:13.769)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:06:21.858)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:06:29.792)
Oh, sure.
Mike (01:06:35.31)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:06:36.836)
They haven't done any of the other work, you know, so.
Mike (01:06:38.974)
Right. Yeah. Well, and they're still miserable and Jesus, I don't want to fucking be that. So yeah. There's no point.
Bill (01:06:47.407)
Yeah. So that was that was uh, seen Daniels from LA from LA Times. So but uh, thank you, sir. There's the door. But seriously, yeah, just I got I got I don't want to say lit up about it. I was just like, oh man, because when I first looked at it, I'm like, this would be great. And I'm like, God, do we really want to keep fucking talking about Matthew Perry? No, again, no, not I don't mean that for him. But
Mike (01:06:53.067)
Alright, scene.
Well, thank you, sir.
Mike (01:07:07.278)
Mm-hmm. All right.
Mike (01:07:13.238)
Hmm.
Bill (01:07:16.159)
But, you know, I mean, part of it, some of these things that are being brought up, I guess the whole point is that I think his toxicology results matter because there, I think is, and the guy mentioned there about family and stuff like that. I mean, yes, his family needs closure. And I think that, you know, it's possible one way or the other, this cause of death could actually help people, you know, because I'm sure people like us, I mean,
Mike (01:07:16.171)
Right.
Mike (01:07:27.595)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:07:32.462)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:07:42.818)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:07:45.771)
Jesus Christ, he's 54 years old, man. 54 year old, normal 54 year old people, whatever quote unquote normal is, do not drop dead at 54. They just don't. And I mean, it does. It maybe causes people some comfort and gives them some comfort, whatever the case is. Oh, he was just a fucking drug addict and alcoholic. That's why he died. Or had a heart attack because of that. And then other people that might say, ooh, you know what? I did a lot of that shit.
Mike (01:07:53.186)
Mm hmm. Right. Good.
Mike (01:08:05.709)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mike (01:08:12.979)
Uh huh.
Bill (01:08:14.907)
watch myself. So I think it could it could help. You know, so I think it's an I it's everyone's gonna end up finding out anyhow. But, you know, saying it doesn't matter, I think is, I think it's a tad I'm not gonna call it an idiot for not saying for not wanting to know we're saying it doesn't matter. But I think it has worth. That's all.
Mike (01:08:16.414)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike (01:08:22.765)
Sure.
Mike (01:08:31.122)
Mm-hmm. Sure, of course. Yeah, well, yeah, it matters. But, and like I said, when we started, you know, clearly, yeah, and you touched on it. He died either directly or indirectly from this disease. You know, that's choices and consequences, man. How many times have we heard that?
Bill (01:08:50.343)
Right. Yeah. And you know, that's we've talked about the one when I went in for my physical, you know, I was I was 11 months sober and I was I was fucking scared, you know, I was scared to go in there because I knew I knew where I was when I went into detox and that was and I believe the doctor I don't think he was fucking with me, you know, because he was pissed off when he finally said it to me because I was I was being just so kind of nonchalant and cavalier
Mike (01:08:57.195)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:09:01.612)
Right?
Mike (01:09:07.362)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:09:11.511)
Mm-hmm.
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Mike (01:09:18.542)
Sure.
Bill (01:09:19.879)
He's like, you had weeks, he goes, not years, not months even. He goes, you had weeks if you keep doing what you're fucking doing. He didn't say fucking, I don't think. He should have, but he said, I had weeks to live and that's what I did at 41 years old. I was all fucked up. And 11 months later, I'm like, fuck, I hear all these guys around us. I mean, people have...
Mike (01:09:24.735)
Okay.
Right? Mmm. Right? Hehehehe.
Mike (01:09:39.83)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:09:45.575)
liver disease and kidney disease and heart disease and all these different things. I was fucking scared, you know? The only thing at that time was my blood sugar level was high because I was fucking candy and sugar feed. I still, I mean, I eat my ice cream. But yeah, I mean, it was just, it was scary because I wasn't, I don't know, I didn't know, you know?
Mike (01:09:47.212)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:09:58.457)
Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. Hehehehehehe.
Mike (01:10:04.93)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:10:12.426)
Right. And you decided you wanted to fucking live.
Bill (01:10:16.763)
Yeah, and even to this day, I mean, I need to go back to the doctor. I'd like to get a physical again because it's been a while. Neither one of us are fucking young. I mean, we joke about it every once in a while, but if fucking reality is, you know, we're 55 and 50 almost, 57 years old, and we've done some shit to ourselves in the past, and I mean, certain things can be rejuvenated and regenerated and fixed and all those sort of things and you get healthier.
Mike (01:10:24.193)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:10:27.81)
Right?
Mike (01:10:34.894)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Bill (01:10:46.887)
Man. Ha ha ha.
Mike (01:10:48.174)
Mm-hmm, right. Yeah, and whatever. And you know, we all die anyway, so. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (01:10:53.819)
Right? But I mean, get off.
Bill (01:11:02.692)
Well, and that's the thing too, and we've talked about that. And on a serious level, we've talked about the fact that, I mean, I'm not afraid to die, but I'd like to hang around, you know, for a little bit longer because, and it's not so much. I mean, yeah, you know, I think about it even from, I'm at the point now where, and I think I said this when we talked about it a month or so ago, that there's things I want to do and things I want to see. But more importantly, I want to be seen and I want to be involved with.
Mike (01:11:11.062)
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
Bill (01:11:29.831)
those around me, you know? And, you know, the kids and the grandkids and the family and all sort of things. And, you know, we talk about, you know, building memories and building this, how do people look at us or how will they look at us when we're gone? And that's what, at least to me now, and it's probably been that way for a while, but I live for that more than I live for anything else. Because, I mean, you know, you think about it.
Mike (01:11:31.709)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:11:39.433)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:11:43.627)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:11:50.534)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:11:56.303)
It's a weird fucking way to look at it, but the minute I die, all these cool things that I did, they're fucking gone. You know, I mean, it's like I can't I can't take them all with me. But I get to leave I get to leave all this shit to all these people out there, you know, all these all these people that I love and care about. I get to leave all this stuff. So, you know.
Mike (01:12:05.146)
AH!
Mike (01:12:08.494)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:12:13.374)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Some good memories. Yeah. That's, that's all I, that's all I could do. Yeah. Exactly, man. Again, living in the moment, you know, all this shit I've done. The minute I die, it's gone. Yeah. Guess what? The minute I did it, it's fucking gone. You know, shit I did yesterday. It's gone. Right. But, you know, hopefully, you know, right. The kids and grandkids will, you know, add you.
Bill (01:12:17.039)
Right.
Bill (01:12:32.717)
Right.
Mike (01:12:40.918)
10, 15, 20 years after I'm gone, they'll go, yeah, that old asshole was kind of all right. I remember this one time he made me smile. You know, he made me feel good, whatever. Yeah, fuck, that's all I care about. That's all I care about.
Bill (01:12:49.37)
Hahaha!
Bill (01:12:55.195)
Right? And so every once in a while, both Derek and Kimmy have done it to me. And, you know, they'll be like, do you remember when or that time when? And I'm like, God, do you remember that? And it's just, you know, it's a good thing. You know, it's not a bad thing. And I was talking to Morgan, one of one of our friends through Instagram. And I don't know, she was asking me what we're doing for Thanksgiving, telling her about a lot of plan and she's having Thanksgiving at her place. And I'm like, do you do the whole thing? She's all love to cook the meal. And.
Mike (01:13:01.322)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:13:06.039)
Right?
Bill (01:13:22.795)
And it just made me think about when Dawn and I first split, that's my son's mom and I for everyone, first split when I had Derek for Thanksgiving. And again, he was, shit, well, we split up. He was nine when I got sober. So we're talking, I don't know, six, seven years old, roughly in that area. And I think I got the idea from mom and Larry, I'm sure I did, is that I didn't wanna cook a full turkey, but they said, you know, get a turkey breast, which is still, you know, it's three, four pounds of meat.
Mike (01:13:39.756)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:13:49.932)
Uh-huh.
Bill (01:13:51.959)
And, you know, season all up, put some chicken broth in there, throw it in the slow cooker, and then cook everything else. You know, and I did that, you know, for him and I. And he used to like and I used to make real mashed potatoes, you know, not canned, not whatever. I'd actually get the potatoes, peel and boil them the whole bit because then, you know, you throw the butter, a little bit of milk in there, and then I'd get grab out the pull out the mixer and he's like, can I do that? And he's just this little kid. He.
Mike (01:14:06.51)
Mm-hmm. Right?
Bill (01:14:18.931)
pull up a chair and I would hold the mixer, kind of just steady it for him, but he loved big old fucking bowl of potatoes just throwing the mixer through. And I, of course, taught him, I'm like, you can't lift this up, because I'm like, these potatoes will be everywhere. And he's like, really? I said, no, don't try it. I'm like, I'm not messing around, don't try it. So he had texted me about something, he sent me this meme about something today, and I said, hey, I was just talking about this. Do you remember that?
Mike (01:14:23.86)
Uh-huh.
Mike (01:14:28.)
Hehehehehehe
Mike (01:14:33.569)
Mm-hmm.
Yep. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (01:14:47.823)
He's like, yeah, he goes, I remember that. And it just made me smile, you know, because that was just kind of just little things like that, you know, making fucking mashed potatoes. I was still drinking. I wasn't very happy with myself at the time, but looking back now or realizing now that, I mean, that was a nice positive memory I even had in my own little shit storm of stuff, you know? I'm not proud of the person I was at that point, but man, I'm glad he doesn't remember it like, yeah, I also remember that you were.
Mike (01:14:51.098)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:14:59.406)
Hmm?
Mike (01:15:08.95)
Right.
Mike (01:15:13.016)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:15:16.751)
whatever time when we're making potatoes. Like you know, that didn't come up. But I don't know, that's what it is. It's all about these. It's all about these little things, you know. So, um, last thing, and this just kind of popped into my head, I may have this on my again on my sheet someplace, but I don't know. I was listening to a podcast not too long ago. And I think this podcast and one other one. Well, this podcast specifically, it said it a couple of times, not going to mention a podcast, I respect the individual. I mean,
Mike (01:15:19.156)
Hehehehehehe, yeah.
Mike (01:15:26.719)
This is...
Bill (01:15:46.387)
They didn't do anything wrong with saying this. It just kind of threw me a little bit. But they said that, you know, just understand, you know, these topics that we talk about, you know, every once in a while, people send us messages saying that all we talk about is doom and gloom and that's kind of what recovery is. You got all these bad things we went through and this and that, you know, it's like, we're not doing some sort of comedy podcast. And I just kind of, I mean, again, I'm working while listening to this. I'm like, have you listened to ours? In this person, we...
Mike (01:15:46.645)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:16:08.974)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Uh-huh.
Bill (01:16:14.163)
This person has listened to our podcast, okay? So they, we know this person, okay? But I'm just like, I'm like, okay, so yes. We tell stories, granted. We do tell how it was, but I mean, we've been told, and I mean, I think we're fucking funny, you know, but, I mean, I couldn't even say that with a straight face. That's a better way to put it. We do abuse ourselves, and we make, I laugh so much out here, it's not even fucking funny.
Mike (01:16:18.496)
Okay. All right.
Mike (01:16:24.768)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:16:32.386)
Hmm. Hehehehe, we amuse ourselves.
Bill (01:16:44.147)
But we've had actually people tell us that they appreciate, you know, the, I don't know, the way that we talk about some things and the fact that we can talk about things in a light way but still make a point, right? So, I mean, no, we're not on here going, hey, so what about that airline food? I mean, we're not, you know, fucking Jerry Seinfeld up here. But, I mean, again, everything we do is not all doom and gloom, but we can talk about serious topics, right? I mean, I don't know.
Mike (01:16:56.475)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:17:02.386)
Right, uh-huh.
Mike (01:17:09.846)
No. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we can. And we can, you know, also talk about serious topics and make fun of people at the same time. Scene.
Bill (01:17:23.051)
Well, and you know, it was it was funny and I just I just thought about this. I didn't think about this at the time that was said. But I listened to well, at the time I was reposted all those clips. I really listened to, you know, the main episode that we did for Mom. And then the one after that, I think went out wherever I was wherever I was driving. And I mean, we started off fucking that episode started off with this
Mike (01:17:23.326)
Hehehehehehe
Mike (01:17:38.164)
Uh huh.
Mike (01:17:49.826)
Mmm.
Bill (01:17:50.003)
the recording fucked up and we ended up doing like a take two type of thing. And then we were fucking around about a special episode. That's where you talked about Sanford or no, um, different strokes or the bicycle shop. And I'm like, I'm like, shit, man. At the time we did that, our mom wasn't even in the fucking ground yet. And we started off with that. So, and again, we talked about, you know, it was that, that was probably the probably.
Mike (01:17:53.941)
Uh huh.
Mike (01:18:00.555)
Oh god, yeah. Yeah! Hehehehe.
Mike (01:18:09.105)
Right!
Yeah.
Bill (01:18:16.743)
That was the deepest and most heartfelt thing that we've ever done openly like that, you know, into microphones. But I think we still tried to have some fun with it, you know, I just, I don't, I don't know.
Mike (01:18:22.03)
Mm-hmm, right. Mm-hmm.
course. Yeah, well, again, I don't want to be fucking miserable. That's not why I'm doing this shit, man. Again, still selfish and self-centered, just in a good way now. Right, I don't want to be fucking miserable. That's, if I wanted to be miserable, I'd have just kept doing what I was doing. That was kind of the point. I didn't want to be as miserable as I was anymore. Didn't know how to stop, didn't know how to, you know, how to be happy. But yeah, you know, again, today I'm...
Bill (01:18:42.579)
Hahaha
Mike (01:18:55.606)
Reasonably happy what the fuck what am I yeah exactly? Yes, we're pieces of shit. Yes. We did bad things. Okay Living in the moment. I'm not as big a piece of shit and I don't do as many bad things as I used to. Yay
Bill (01:19:10.631)
Right? Well, and that's the thing too. You know, I've said this before about, and again, no offense to other podcasts, but you know, you get these guests on there that are talking about, or even if they're not guests, or you know, whatever their setup is, two people like it is with us, for instance, and they tell these stories and everyone's just like, oh man, you went through so much. And then you and I are fucking laughing our asses off at each other going, Jesus Christ, you're walking down your fucking driveway with your pants off and you fell. How many times?
Mike (01:19:18.148)
This is...
Mike (01:19:30.23)
Oh, oh, oh yeah!
Mike (01:19:40.888)
Yep. Yeah, I don't know, three or four. I don't know. I was fucking in a blackout. I didn't tell you. I wasn't counting. Just bouncing that basketball off the pavement. I was going for a world record.
Bill (01:19:44.675)
I know, I know.
Bill (01:19:51.491)
Which was, which was the basketball was your face. But no, and I don't know, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm not trying to trying to badmouth the podcast, just kind of threw me I'm like this, this shit just does. I don't know we, we said it, you know, if we said it once we've said it 1000 times that we wouldn't do this meaning this podcast we wouldn't do this meaning recovery, we wouldn't do any of it if we if we couldn't have fun and
Mike (01:20:12.75)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right.
Bill (01:20:17.503)
couldn't talk about these stories and not try to find some light in them. Because, I don't know, it's just fucking doom and gloom. I don't want doom and gloom in any conversation. Right.
Mike (01:20:23.661)
Yeah.
Mike (01:20:28.362)
No, I lived my life that way for decades and it didn't work very well. I like this better. I like being happier and lighter. And yes, it was garbage, but it was garbage 13 years ago. Yeah, it's not today. Live in the fucking moment, people.
Bill (01:20:44.635)
Right, not today man, not today.
Mike (01:20:47.326)
Yeah, not fucking today.
Bill (01:20:49.887)
But yeah, speaking of Derek, I don't remember if he was in a group test. He is, he actually is coming for Thanksgiving.
Mike (01:20:56.735)
Oh cool, no I didn't see that.
Bill (01:20:58.399)
Okay, yeah, he must have texted us and I don't know another one, but yeah, I forgot to tell you about that. Maybe it's just like last week or so that I found out, but Katie has to work on Friday. And she's got, so she's doing Thanksgiving with her family. Derek's actually bringing down her car because he doesn't drive his truck, you know, not that it's, he can probably make it, but he is bringing her car. And then he'll be here. I don't know, probably.
Mike (01:21:07.278)
They both coming? No.
Right?
Mike (01:21:15.054)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Bill (01:21:26.163)
Thursday early afternoon and he's probably leaving mid afternoon on Friday because they got stuff going on with Katie's family on Friday and Saturday But but yeah, I was just kind of like I'm like, oh, that's cool You know what? I saw when I was I had breakfast with them on the way back from Appleton last weekend So I got to see both Katie and Katie and Derek for breakfast. But yeah, it was nice. But but yeah, so it's I was just happy I mean he hasn't well, I can't say that two years ago. He was here the I think it would have been the year that
Mike (01:21:30.782)
Okay. Sure.
Mike (01:21:36.344)
Nice.
Mike (01:21:42.262)
Hmm?
Cool.
Mike (01:21:53.152)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:21:56.391)
was just right out of the pandemic. I don't know if you were here that, oh yeah, you would have been here, right?
Mike (01:22:02.678)
No, I think I missed a year cause I wasn't getting vaccines and yeah, you know, I eventually did cause, um, you know, yeah, that's a whole, I got that. Cause, uh, you know, had to be around mom and not that yeah, made her feel better, didn't do a goddamn thing one way or practical, but it made her feel better. So I went and got jabbed.
Bill (01:22:24.975)
Right. Yeah, and that was, yeah, because I think at that time, well, whatever, whatever the whole thing, but that was a couple of years ago. But but yeah, so I was just oh, yeah, you know, you were here because that's when I came when I came back from that Thanksgiving is when I when I tested positive for COVID, because you were going you were going to a concert like that Saturday or Sunday, I think, with that buddy of yours from high school or whatever, the one that was managing the band. But anyhow, so. Yeah, so yeah.
Mike (01:22:50.894)
Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Bill (01:22:53.691)
So I think we're here that year, but anyhow. Yeah, yeah. But no, it'll be fun. Like I said, I think it's gonna be kind of a small group of us, but and I knew it was kind of up in the air about Amber and Lydia, but I'm glad they could come too. So cool. All right, well, I think we've rambled enough and, oops, sorry.
Mike (01:22:55.382)
Went and saw the temptations.
Mike (01:23:08.418)
Yeah. Yup.
Oh, and speaking of family, no, no. I meant to, I was going to, yeah. So, um, Chris's son, Cameron listens. Hi, Cameron. And, uh, and he, uh, had a note for us. Um, he, he doesn't like when we have guests. He prefers it when it's just you and I. Yeah. He, uh, actually he, uh, told Chris that and she told me, um, last week.
Bill (01:23:22.312)
Hi Cameron.
Bill (01:23:31.297)
HAHAHAHA
Really?
Mike (01:23:41.866)
like week before, whatever the hell it was, but Michael was going to be on. So I didn't bring it up when Michael was on. Plus he doesn't count. He wasn't a real guest. He's just one of us. So instead of two of us, it was three of us. But, um, but yeah, I just wanted to let you know that, yeah, Cameron prefers when it's just us. He thinks guests get in the way.
Bill (01:23:47.055)
Ha ha ha!
Bill (01:23:52.905)
Right?
Bill (01:24:03.083)
Well, you know, and here's the thing. So to begin with, I know that when we started getting guests, it was random. You know, I think we started, you know, kind of soliciting for guests a little bit, and then we just got this string of people that, you know, kept coming up to us type of thing. And then to begin with, we were only going to do no more than two, we were trying to do one. And then there were certain months when it was just we had so many people, it was, you know, two, three people in a month. But
Mike (01:24:11.031)
Okay.
Mike (01:24:24.)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:24:27.931)
Ah, right.
Bill (01:24:29.575)
It's funny though what I've noticed and Cameron, I agree with him to a certain extent. Only in the extent that sometimes, we don't get an opportunity to, kind of join in the conversation enough. So getting in the way might be a little harsh. Okay, but there's a point to it. I think that in my opinion, if we could ever get it down to.
Mike (01:24:34.538)
Yeah
Mike (01:24:45.173)
Mmm.
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (01:24:55.527)
you know, consistently in a minimum of one, you know, that one to two weeks a month, maybe one for sure, you know, I think it gives a nice mix, because I watch just from, if you look at the plays on our episodes, it's weird. Sometimes you and I, our episodeal, will outperform a guest episode rarely, you know, but a lot of times, sometimes it will. Then other times you can see when it's us for a few weeks, then those plays drop a little bit. And I think, you know, maybe the...
Mike (01:25:00.538)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:25:12.823)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:25:20.357)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:25:23.263)
masses of people appreciate maybe different thoughts and opinions, but I don't know. It's a mix that I don't think is we're gonna ever get completely right, but at this point we don't have anyone scheduled between now and whenever. But yeah, you might be. And yeah, and you know what? I'll tell you what. Here...
Mike (01:25:28.227)
Alright. Hehehehe.
Mike (01:25:39.438)
Yeah, right. Yeah, so you're stuck with us for a while, people. And you're welcome, Cameron. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (01:25:48.883)
Here is the way for the random listener out there or the non-random listener is do what our good friend from Instagram and loyal listener did, do what Megan did, which we've got seven questions from her which we didn't have a chance to get to. We got more episodes to get to those. Send us shit. If you're tired of us rambling, then give us a fucking topic. That's it.
Mike (01:25:53.55)
Thanks for watching!
Mike (01:26:05.854)
Mm-hmm. Yup.
Mike (01:26:13.206)
Mm-hmm. That's it.
Bill (01:26:15.875)
Even if we've talked about it before, if we've talked about it, we'll bring it up and say, yeah, we touched on this before. Like when people said, every once in a while, I'll get the same meme like from five different people, you know, and it's one that I've seen like a month ago, you know, but which is fine, you know, but same type of thing, it may be the same topic. But if you have something for us to talk about, you're like, these guys just talk about the same shit. Okay, so what do you want us to talk about? You know? So yeah.
Mike (01:26:26.571)
Right?
Mike (01:26:30.327)
Uh huh.
Mike (01:26:41.625)
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah, we're here for the listener. Yeah, exactly.
Bill (01:26:50.679)
Right. Yeah. You guys believe that? Good. Yeah, exactly. All right. Yeah, fuck it. I think we're going to be done like seven minutes ago, but I'm glad you brought that up about Cameron. That's a good one. I like that. I like that a lot. It makes me, you know, it feeds the egotist inside of me. So Cameron, I appreciate you. So.
Mike (01:26:55.35)
Yeah, keep believing it.
Mike (01:27:06.543)
Yeah, I thought you would.
Mike (01:27:11.89)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehehehehehe.
Bill (01:27:17.733)
All right, I think we're done. You ready?
Mike (01:27:19.614)
We are, I am ready. All right, kids, thanks for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. So always be kind to each other, be good to each other, do something nice for somebody else this week. And don't tell anybody about it. Now it's time kids. It is that time. It is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here, climb over that gate.
Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.
Bill (01:27:52.956)
I still, I mean, again, the whole thing I like, but now that you've added that, that whole little brrr at the end, I like it. I do. It adds a little bit of gusto to the end. But hey, so if, and everyone, you know, kind of stay tuned if you're listening to this episode, keep an eye out possibly in the next few days. We may have a bonus episode out of the retreat that we go to. It's seriously.
Mike (01:27:58.629)
Hehehehehehe Good!
Mike (01:28:03.623)
Exactly.
Mike (01:28:07.402)
Mm.
Mike (01:28:16.014)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:28:19.567)
And I'm not kidding, they've got a scheduled late, you know, every day. And it depends on that. Um, depending on other people around, depending on space, depending on technology, there is a lot to depend on, but if we can do it, we want to, um, even if it's a short episode, we might have a, uh, a bonus episode actually with people in front of us and hopefully audience participation and you know, all that shit. So, but, uh, if, if not, Hey, we'll figure out a way to do it, uh, some other place, some other time.
Mike (01:28:22.727)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (01:28:35.159)
Right.
Mike (01:28:39.194)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mike (01:28:47.426)
Yep, exactly. Exactly. We're going to live in the moment, man. That's right.
Bill (01:28:52.491)
Yeah, yeah, man, we're living in the moment, man. All right, well, you know what? I love you and I will, I'll not only talk to you tomorrow, I will get to see you tomorrow. I know, yeah, I was gonna say the same thing, unlucky bastard, but.
Mike (01:29:05.582)
You will, you poor thing. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
That's right. Yeah. We're going to hang out with a bunch of drunks and sit by the lake and learn about the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Bill (01:29:21.976)
Eat some pizza, learn about Cuba, you're having some food. Alright man, I love you brother. Bye.
Mike (01:29:23.722)
Right? Exactly. All right. Love you too.
