SoberNotMature - Episode 92 (Blowing Your Ass Out And Other Questionable Behaviors)

Bill (00:02.314)
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And this is our after Thanksgiving extravaganza episode. And we're all feeling pumped. And we're both feeling all pumped here, right, Mike? But yeah, Mike has been... Okay, so I'm holding my hand up above my head right now. That's the weather.

Mike (00:13.084)
Gobble, gobble.

Mike (00:18.661)
Right.

Bill (00:28.194)
that I'm holding my other hand like way down here. And that's where Mike is. He's under the weather. Ha ha ha.

Mike (00:32.796)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Bill (00:42.838)
Right, yeah. So, but yeah, it's kind of a shame. I mean, obviously you weren't feeling good yesterday. So normally we're under the same roof at Thanksgiving and have been for a number of years. And yeah, we had planned on obviously recording today, one way or the other, but yeah, normally we would have been, if all things, if things just would work out like we planned, what the fuck, man, right? Yeah.

Mike (00:50.888)
Usually.

Mike (00:57.702)
Right?

Mike (01:03.555)
Yeah, god damn it. If everything would just work out the way I wanted it to, life would be wonderful.

Bill (01:09.366)
So you know what's funny is, and I'm gonna mention this again because the Sober Friends podcast is doing, it's not dissecting, it's basically they're going into the decoding, I'm sorry, they're calling it decoding the big book. So Matt, who we actually had on our podcast from Sober Friends podcast, he's doing this special series and going through different chapters of the book. And the one that I just listened to today was chapter five, how it works,

Mike (01:12.036)
to.

Mike (01:24.118)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:38.928)
Mmm.

Bill (01:39.618)
You know, they read the Joe and Charlie tapes they have in there. They get some of these other sources. So they read the original, obviously original steps and all that stuff, the original version of how it works, which is always fun. But then what he does, they give a little background, this and that, you know, kind of how all this stuff comes together with the chapter, but then they read the chapter. And it talks about it in there that, you know, if everyone would just do, it's the actor trying to control everything. And I mean, how funny that,

Mike (01:49.836)
Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Mike (02:06.818)
Yup.

Bill (02:09.91)
I just, I wasn't even thinking about that when I brought it up, but it's been a long time. It's just 100% complete, whatever you want to call it, transparency, honesty, all that stuff, since I've actually sat down and read through the big books. So I had messaged Matt on Instagram, whatever the first time I listened to one of them a couple months ago or a month ago, and told him, I'm like, this is great, because I'm listening to him.

Mike (02:13.591)
Hehehehe

Mike (02:20.796)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (02:33.997)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (02:37.11)
while I've been traveling and stuff like that. It's just great to immerse yourself. You know, sort of, but first of all, better audio and a better voice to listen to. Yeah, Matt's doing a little bit more work than setting the boombox down in a cassette tape, but, you know, and I did, I told him, I'm like, man, you put, you can tell he's put a lot of work into it, but more,

Mike (02:40.376)
You feel like you were in Jim Benning's class? Right.

Mike (02:54.298)
Mm.

Ho ho ho.

Mike (03:03.068)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (03:04.962)
far more fucking work than we put into this or any far more work than, right, but I'm just making it clear. We say that all the time, but I'm listening to this and I'm like, it's got this nice background music and this and that, I just, it's done really nice. But I just want anyone who is, if you're in a 12-step program, whether you've been through the book lately, the big book, again, look up Sober Friends podcast. You'll see in between their normal episodes.

Mike (03:07.56)
Well, that's not too... that's a low bar!

Mike (03:13.957)
Oh, haha

Mike (03:17.436)
Mmm. Cool.

Bill (03:32.246)
Decoding the big book. I'm just saying he's done a really good job and you can tell he's put a lot of work in it And I think anyone Who's again 12 step side of things would appreciate it. So Yeah, and he said It's I'm serious it's I've gotten I've gotten a lot out of it because I would rather I'm well I said I'm fucking lazy you know it even to begin with when I wouldn't

Mike (03:43.772)
Cool. Damn, I'll have to check it out.

Mike (03:55.394)
Hehehehe

Bill (03:58.534)
I started listening to podcasts. The first thing was that Dave Grohl book, and I bought the book. And then I'm like, I wonder if they have an audio book because me sitting down to read, not that I can't, I can read. I just don't have the patience, you know, and a lot of times when I sit down to read like that, you know, a lot of people, it's like, it's a it's almost like, I don't know, it's it makes me tired, you know, because if I if I do it, it's like the end of the day and all this sort of stuff. But so I'm

Mike (04:03.356)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (04:11.106)
Hehehehehehe

Alright.

Bill (04:26.418)
all about audiobooks and the fact that, you know, again, listening to a little bit of the history, it's just really cool. So, highly recommend that. But, um, but so yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, we missed you yesterday. Derek was here, obviously, you know, our niece, Kylie was here and today, Derek and I went out and cleaned all the leaves out. Kathy normally does that. So, once a year, she doesn't, there's too many trees around here for, you know, her to do it any more than once, and she can't do it. So, I bought a, uh,

Mike (04:32.412)
Cool. All right.

Mike (04:39.814)
Yeah.

Mike (04:51.064)
Right.

Bill (04:55.806)
a cheap electric leaf blower the other day. And between that and Derek came out and helped me and we got it all done. But the backyard, there weren't a ton of leaves except for over on, if you're looking at the back or on the right-hand side, but to get the rest up, it's like sporadic, so it's big, getting that part done. And then we're walking into the front, not that he hadn't seen the front yard before, but we're standing there and he's like, so I'm like, yeah, we just gotta get all this out to the road. And he's like, this is gonna suck.

Mike (05:19.287)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (05:25.188)
Yeah! Hehehehehehehehehehehehe

Bill (05:27.147)
And it did super suck, but I mean it sucked a little bit. It was a lot, you know, because the entire fucking yard was just blanketed. But yeah, we got that done and I'm just, I'm sore and my back hurts and I'm like, fuck.

Mike (05:30.86)
Mm. Right, right, right.

Mike (05:41.392)
Hmm. Well, hell, I was going to invite you to Cleveland and do my yard, but I guess that's not going to happen. Yeah, exactly.

Bill (05:47.29)
Ooh, wait a second, let me check my schedule. I'm busy, I'm busy that weekend. But yeah, so we got that done. But yeah, so I mean, we've got some stuff to talk about. I think with, you know, we had the retreat last weekend, we did not get a chance to do the recording while we were there, which is fine. It would have been too rushed, number one, and too, let's call it forced, because I, it wasn't about us. I mean, for...

Mike (06:03.602)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (06:10.468)
Right. Mm hmm. Exactly.

Yeah.

Bill (06:16.506)
You know, we say it all the time, but literally that had nothing to do with us in our podcast. Although, you know, what a lot of people talk to us about it was all good. But was so we could do a recap of that. Speaking of audiobooks, I did finish the Matthew Perry audiobook. So kind of want to give a little recap on that. And I don't know, we got your reading to do and, you know, some other plenty of other shit on here. But so speaking of other shit, how about a reading?

Mike (06:22.483)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (06:25.71)
Oh yeah.

Mike (06:43.376)
How about it?

Bill (06:45.64)
If you're up to it, you okay? You all right?

Mike (06:48.869)
Yeah, I can read a small page out of a small book. I think I can handle that. All right. Well, Hey, guess what? I looked up gratitude in the back and you know what? This may have been the reading I did last year, but fuck it. I'm doing it again this year. Um, you know, there's actually several entries in the back under gratitude, but this is the first one and like I said, I think I did it last year, but it's a really good one. I like cracked it.

Bill (06:53.428)
Alright, good.

Mike (07:17.176)
looked and went, I will do this. So here it is, January 29th. A single grateful thought toward heaven is the most complete prayer. God old Ephraim Lessing, he's a German philosopher. Thank you is one of the most important things we can say to anyone. Thank you packs a lot of meaning into two little words. Thank you says, I see you.

I see what you have done for me. You have been kind to me. I know it takes work to be kind. I feel special that you did the work of being kind to me. I am grateful. Sometimes it is hard for us to say thank you because we're too busy feeling shame or sadness or anger. So what? No excuses. Those feelings are our own problems and we know what we do.

and we know what to do about them now that we have a recovery program. No matter what is going on with us, we can always find help, and we can always be kind to others. Saying thank you is an easy way to start. Prayer for the day. Thank you, higher power. Thank you for the gift of life, for a world of natural beauty and power to live in.

and for the people around me who love me and accept my love. Thank you for caring about me and helping me every day in my recovery. And please help me ask for the gift of your help each day. Today's action. Today I will practice thinking, thank you, higher power, every time I receive a little bit of help or a lucky break.

Bill (09:04.49)
Nice. And I think I failed to say at the top of this recording that this is, yeah, this is our gratitude episode. So, you know, I was when, because I knew Mike wasn't feeling good. And it's like we barely talk at all when we first start because, you know, and the reason for that is that, you know, we want all this just to just come out on the recording, you know, how many times have we started off? It's like, oh, shut up. Come on, we got to start recording first.

Mike (09:05.657)
Yeah.

Mike (09:12.048)
Uh huh.

Mike (09:22.693)
Right?

Mike (09:33.464)
Right, exactly. Don't blow our wad too early.

Bill (09:34.114)
But yeah, the only thing I said was, I'm like, yeah, you probably wanna get this shit started right away. And he's like, you know me too well, and we hit record. And then I forgot I was, again, maybe that's the point. I always forget to be grateful. And I fucking forgot this was our gratitude episode. So, but you know, and you probably did read that last year, but any other readings on, and I say that jokingly, but.

Mike (09:50.958)
Mmm. Oishii.

Mike (09:58.148)
Yeah.

Bill (10:03.346)
Seriously, 100% of the time, 100% of the days, being grateful does not come naturally to me. And, you know, I mean, it's weird, I'm sure, to maybe a normal person thinking, really, what the fuck, man? But the fact that, you know, again, doing this and doing the readings and all that sort of stuff, you know, reminds me, you know? And if things are going shitty, that it doesn't matter what's happening, that...

Mike (10:12.278)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (10:18.78)
Hmm. Right?

Mike (10:27.58)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (10:31.47)
Even if I don't think it's gonna help, at least running down a gratitude list in my head is gonna help, you know, but So I wrote down a couple of things obviously. Thank you being important I like the fact that you know a couple of things I wrote down was, you know Basically telling somebody that I see you you've been kind to me and I think it was talked about effort You know, we realize how much effort it takes to be kind Knowing we can

Mike (10:36.076)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Mike (10:53.34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, we definitely do, because it's not our natural state.

Bill (10:57.942)
Right? And it is sometimes because, you know, especially if someone's being a dick or does something, you know, to realize that we can still, you know, be kind to people. We don't have to like people, but we can still be kind. And then always able to find help and be kind and then ask for the gift. You know, it was the last thing. I think that was towards the end of it. But yeah, the thank you part.

Mike (11:03.338)
Yes.

Mike (11:09.772)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (11:25.85)
I find myself, I mean, probably saying thank you certainly more now than I ever did, but you know, maybe in certain, I don't know, just all the time saying thank you to people. So it's become more habit, right?

Mike (11:31.42)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (11:36.44)
Right. Mm hmm. Absolutely. Right. Well, I mean, because before we were, you know, fucking entitled, this world owed us. And so, you know, grateful, fuck you. People are supposed to do this shit for me. Yeah.

Bill (11:50.45)
Right. Yeah. Well, and even when, and I told this story before about, you know, Dawn, and again, everyone, that's my, that's my son's mom, my ex, but, you know, all the time she used to tell me that, you know, I'm so tired of you saying sorry and so tired of you doing this. And I was like, well, fine, fuck you then, you know, I mean, I won't say I'm sorry, but I was missing the point, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't changing my actions. I was just, you know, against spilling.

Mike (12:05.124)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:11.324)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:14.619)
Right.

Bill (12:17.746)
spilling the milk and saying sorry is it was meaningless whereas you know saying thank you can actually be meaningful you know

Mike (12:19.881)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (12:26.537)
Yeah. And well, and, you know, and again, taking the time and taking the action to say, thank you, you do it over and over, like all these other actions that we do. Um, you know, they become, they do have, they do become meaningful. They do have meaning to us now because we've done them over and over again. It's not our natural go-to, but we, that's how we change our behaviors by, you know, changing our behaviors, doing things different.

And you do it over and over and all of a sudden you go, fuck man. I actually I'm grateful. Yeah.

Bill (12:58.454)
Right. Well, when that goes back to the whole thing that, how do you put that with the psychologists say one thing and we recovery teaches us another about.

Mike (13:04.897)
Mmm.

Right. Yeah, right. Psychologists, psychiatry tries to change the way we think, so we behave differently. Alcoholics Anonymous and Recovery wants us to change the way we act, so we think differently.

Bill (13:19.85)
Right. Which, I mean, it's so simple, it's almost stupid, you know, but I mean, I mean, really, when you think about that, you're like, oh, so all I got to do is like walk a particular way and talk a particular way and I'm going to act a particular way. And I mean, it's again, it's well, but all of this simple, simple program.

Mike (13:24.253)
Well, yeah!

Mike (13:31.108)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:37.4)
Right. Well, our behaviors change and then all of a sudden we start going, well, shit, this is the right thing to do. You know, then our thinking actually changes, but because we're acting differently. Yeah. Right. Fucking weird.

Bill (13:42.882)
Hahaha

Bill (13:50.334)
I know. Yeah. And then when, when we act that way, then we actually get people saying thank you to us. And you're like, huh, well, and that goes back to the same thing. We always want that. I'm sure that goes back to our own. We I think we realize or find out inadvertently that we get instant gratification by actually being decent people. You know, so which is, again, fucking weird. It's like, oh, all I had to do all these years was do that. And OK, I got it.

Mike (13:56.128)
Mm-hmm. Well...

Mike (14:10.802)
Right!

Mike (14:17.308)
Right, do the next right thing. Hmm, and it feels better than doing the wrong thing. What the fuck? Morons. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Bill (14:21.706)
Right? Well, it's funny that this whole thank you thing, because I had made a note on my sheet and I was listening to, again, the morning show in Milwaukee, or the Milwaukee morning show, and it came up as something, you know, again, this time of year and Thanksgiving and being, again, thankful and grateful, they had some article about, you know, how many times somebody says, you know, like how many times do you think you say thank you?

Mike (14:41.85)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (14:49.186)
per day, per week, per month, whatever. And I'm like, and they're going back and forth. I don't remember what the number was. It was a lot, but when you start to think about it, I'm like, okay, so in my job, it's like every person I talk to, I'm saying thank you on a regular basis. And think about in recovery all the time, we're saying thank you. And I'm like, I don't even think, it's gotta be just an astronomical number of times, which is weird, you know? But yeah, I think now that, again, we're hopefully.

Mike (14:56.143)
Mm.

Mike (15:03.652)
Right.

Mike (15:06.94)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:12.515)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (15:18.678)
hopefully a little bit better people, then yeah, we say these things every once in a while, right?

Mike (15:24.128)
Exactly. Well, you know, I know both of us, we say it every night at the end of the day, minute through another day sober. Thank you.

Bill (15:29.823)
Right? Yeah.

Bill (15:34.498)
Yeah, I guess, you know, I wasn't even that didn't even pop in the top of my head. But because again, that's just that's part of the thing that I do. It's you know, I just part of the whole process. I don't even realize that I like what I do.

Mike (15:42.276)
Right.

Mike (15:45.7)
Right. Well, I mean, when, when I explained that, you know, this atheist praise twice a day, I mean, I keep it, I again, keep it simple. I don't know where the hell I heard that, but, uh, right. I say please in the morning and thank you at night. Those are, I mean, bottom line, the simplest way to explain my prayers every day.

Bill (15:55.077)
Hehehehe

Bill (16:03.038)
Right. Yeah, in the morning I do my start off, or right in the beginning of my prayers, is, you know, please guide me through another, you know, sober day. And at the end, thank you for guiding me through another sober day. Because that's what, you know, that's funny where some of these words like, give me the strength, I think both of us use in our prayers and, you know, kind of guide me. And that's something that, I mean, those are things that we were taught. People said, ask for the guidance, ask for the strength. Don't ask for anything else. Just, I can't ask to

Mike (16:11.757)
Mm-hmm. Hey!

Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:21.892)
Alright.

Mike (16:29.615)
Mm-hmm. Great.

Bill (16:32.758)
to have this happen, but please guide me. Please give me the strength to do these things. So, which are, I think, not even. Well, you can, you can. Shitting like my dad used to say, shit in one hand and, you know, wish in the other and see which one fills up first. But yeah, I mean, asking for that guidance, all these little things, these are minor things, but make a huge difference. They're not.

Mike (16:36.047)
Right.

Mike (16:39.42)
Wait a minute, I can't ask for a new car? Fuck. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (17:01.398)
Once again, we're not asking for things for ourselves, just the ability to be able to take that action. Because again, this is a program of action. I've heard that before. Not only every episode that we get out here, but yeah, from other folks too. So, but I like that one. So that was the end of January, huh?

Mike (17:05.305)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (17:09.724)
Mm-hmm. Me too. Hehehehehehe.

Mike (17:22.148)
Yeah, 29th.

Bill (17:23.902)
Okay, yeah, I like that one. I like that one a lot. So anything else on the reading?

Mike (17:25.916)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (17:30.156)
Nah, I don't think so. I'm grateful it's over.

Bill (17:31.646)
Okay. Ha ha ha. Right. Okay, so just two quick things before we talk about the retreat. Just a quick reminder for everyone, we still have the Hazelden donation page on our website, which is at sobernotmature.com. Click on there, you'll see it. It's got a drop-down thing on there. Once again, these donations for the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation.

Mike (17:41.116)
This is...

Mike (17:46.64)
Right?

Bill (17:58.246)
They don't go to us, they don't even go through us. It's a click through to their website, if you'd like to donate to them, especially this time of year. You know, as we always talk about, it's getting cold out, people need help. I'm sure they're busier this time of year, also with the holidays. So there's that. And then, you know, again, it's Black Friday, it's holiday season. Our website, if you wanna get anything on there, I've got everything marked down right now at 30% off.

Mike (17:58.448)
Hmm, nope.

Mike (18:18.268)
Mm.

Bill (18:25.326)
Again, recovery books, we got coffee, we've got other merchandise, silver, not mature stuff. Once again, if you're looking for anything on there, cool. If you want to buy something, fine. We never beg for anyone to buy anything, but we're trying to make it as affordable as possible. We haven't made any money on the thing, but we're also, I'd like to stop losing money on it because that's really what it's been. And it's fine. Because we've done exactly the plan that I had was.

Mike (18:39.173)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:43.772)
Hehehe

Right.

Bill (18:53.75)
you know, kind of tried to just flood some of this out there and see what happens. And we did, you know, got some of this merchandise and all that stuff out there. And so, yeah, if anyone wants anything, and again, Hazel Paisley and the books we have and merchandise and a bunch of good stuff on there. So.

Mike (18:59.78)
Right.

Mike (19:06.512)
Right, show your gratitude to the drunks in your life and get them a sober, not mature t-shirt or coffee mug.

Bill (19:12.598)
Yeah, yeah, there's things on there that you can get there that are not like, you know, really expensive. So yeah, absolutely, absolutely. All right, so enough of me trying to plug that. Hazelden, Betty Ford Foundation, we plug that all day long, but our website is what it is. So the retreat we went to last week, and it was a sober retreat in Vermillion, Ohio. And the one thing that we have promised is we will, we're not going to use anyone's names.

not even first names of people there because it's, we do, we talk a lot, we're open, I'm open now, and Mike and I are really open with our sobriety, but we 100% respect anonymity in general, but also truly respect other people's anonymity. So the only person that, number one, she said we could use her name was our friend Mara, and she's actually gonna be on with us on December 8th. So Mara is the one that asked us to go.

Mike (19:47.545)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:55.74)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (20:08.19)
And then, you know, set us up and we spoke on a couple of steps. Mike did step one. I did step eight. But it was, it was a lot of fun. And what did you say that you were surprised? I don't know how, what words you put in it, but you were surprised or amazed or.

Mike (20:17.914)
It was.

Mike (20:25.688)
Uh, I've, you know, right. I mean, like most things in my life that are good for me, I didn't want to fucking go. Um, I didn't know it was like, eh, you know, but, uh, I was, I, and I know I use this phrase when I got there, contempt before investigation. I was trying not to have that contempt. Um, and.

Bill (20:46.767)
Right.

Mike (20:53.8)
It was like Bill said, it was, it was a fucking great time, man. Um, I walked out of there all kinds of spiritually fit for that day. Um, yeah, it was great, man. It was great. Um, just hanging out with, you know, what it was probably 70 to 100 people there. Something like that. Yeah. And, um, just, you know, us, man, drunks and junkies and, and

Bill (21:13.44)
Right.

Mike (21:18.768)
Beautiful, you know, everybody there for the same reason and doing the same thing. And it was, uh, you know, it was a great reminder of, um, how similar we all are, you know, and how the, because the solution is the same for all of us. It's it's, it was great. You know, I had a wonderful time. I even talked to some people.

Bill (21:38.646)
Right. It. Ha ha ha. Ha ha. And it was, so same thing. I mean, I thought it was gonna be interesting. I had a little bit of, I don't know, type of thing. And then, you know, so when we got there too, and you know, again, it doesn't matter where, Mike came from Cleveland, I came from Indiana. Mara kind of made a deal out of that saying that, she's like, oh my God, you drove like three plus hours? I'm like, it doesn't matter, man. I don't care.

Mike (21:53.276)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:01.744)
Right. Mm.

Mike (22:07.526)
Right?

Bill (22:08.246)
You know, so the distance wasn't a problem. No issue whatsoever getting there. And obviously once we got there, you know, we walk into this lodge, we get the thing and like, oh, room assignment, go down there. And I mean, they don't give me a key or anything. And I'm just like, oh, you're in a room, whatever it was, 110, I think we were in. Yeah, so yeah, I got half a memory left or a couple of brain cells that touch each other still. So I walk into the room and it's just fucking two beds and a dresser. And I'm like, oh, this is what it is.

Mike (22:20.604)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:23.744)
It was 110.

Mike (22:28.124)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (22:36.825)
Alright.

Bill (22:37.686)
You know, it's just, it's a common bathroom. There's four showers. There's, you know, there's no coffee pot there. I'm just like, fuck, you know, and that's kind of the, right, and then yeah, when we ate and stuff like that, that's kind of what it felt like. It was the dining room area and it's buffet style. We're waiting in line and, but the same thing as I'm walking in there, I'm like, okay, so, and I know what it was. It's these creature comforts that we've gotten spoiled with, you know? And that may sound stupid, you know, to people,

Mike (22:41.822)
Hmm

Mike (22:45.328)
We're back at the Kidding Center. He, he, he. Mm-hmm.

Mike (23:04.087)
Of course.

Bill (23:07.566)
Um, we lived in, in an environment, in a shared environment in the Keating Center specifically for a certain amount of time. Then at the three quarter house, a shared environment, and then let's call it what it is, you and I living together as a shared environment, you know, not that people don't have roommates, but you know, again, it's just this, this type of thing. And all of it was wonderful. There was nothing wrong with it. The, you know, the, the food was, the food was decent. Um, the people were fucking wonderful. The groups were good.

Mike (23:14.591)
Sure.

Mike (23:21.861)
Uh-huh.

Mike (23:26.856)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (23:33.084)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (23:36.402)
And the only thing, because like Mara came up to me at one point, I forget, I think it was on Saturday, because you spoke on Friday night, did your stuff, and I thought you did a great job with step one. And then mine wasn't until after lunch on Saturday, you know, so that was fun. It was good getting up in front of people, and I didn't really prepare, I just brought the book. I knew what paragraph I was going to read from, from the step, and then just kind of whatever else came off the top of my head, because that's...

Mike (23:36.421)
Right?

Mike (23:44.444)
Right? Yeah.

Mike (24:00.668)
right?

Mike (24:03.996)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, I had a couple of notes, but that was it. You know, stood up there and talked for 12 minutes or whatever the fuck it was. Yeah, sat down and shut up. Heh heh heh.

Bill (24:04.374)
That's what you and I do, right? I mean, that's.

Bill (24:15.286)
Right. And then Mara, go ahead. Were you gonna say something or just laugh?

Mike (24:21.456)
I was just going to say, yeah, you know, like we were taught, man, you know, be honest, be brief, be seated.

Bill (24:30.116)
Right? Yeah. Exactly. And even with a lead, I mean, our leads aren't much longer than that. You know, they may go 20 minutes or 25 at the most. So, you know, it was a...

Mike (24:36.186)
Right?

Right? Well, like Joe used to say, our sponsor, anything over 20 minutes is bullshit.

Bill (24:44.062)
Right? Which, I mean, it is. And we had so many people with, I mean, 30, 40 and Ray, 50 plus years of sobriety got up there and led for, you know, 20 or 25 minutes. And we got more out of it than we had from any lead that went for a fucking hour, you know, from anyone else. So

Mike (24:53.214)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (24:56.368)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mike (25:00.76)
Right, oh yeah, right.

Bill (25:03.446)
But yes, Homara comes up to me at one point and she's like, she's like, you know, how do you like everything? And I said, oh, it's good. And she said, oh, you wouldn't tell me if it wasn't. And I said, no, I said actually the complete opposite because here's the thing. And I'm like, I've done enough, you know, not that it's like the work stuff that I've done, but sort of, you know, you're doing training or you're doing this or doing that, whatever it is. And you want the, you want it to be, you know, good for the recipient, whatever that is.

Mike (25:12.668)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (25:25.753)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:32.091)
Right?

Bill (25:32.51)
And if it's not, you want the feedback. I mean, I can't fix anything unless I know about it. They wouldn't be able to fix anything unless they knew about it. And then the only thing I said to her, I said, to begin with, I said, I thought that the timeframe between the actual groups and discussions and steps like that had seemed kind of long until it wasn't. And we had, there was one group that I sat in on, and one of the individuals had a

Mike (25:38.684)
Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:52.764)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Bill (26:01.194)
this person had an issue that they wanted to get out. And they even said, they're like, hey, I know this is gonna be a little off topic, but we're like, ah, come on, lay it on us. And rather than having 40 minutes or something like that till the next one, we had like 15 minutes because it ran long, but it was a really fucking good discussion. Really good. Just open and raw. And I know that it helped this person because that person said so afterwards.

Mike (26:03.309)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (26:10.405)
Right.

Mike (26:17.225)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (26:20.856)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (26:27.691)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (26:29.846)
you know, that person thanked everyone that was in the group. And, you know, thank you very much for listening. And the person's like, this is so great. Um, and again, to be able to share like that openly and like you said, it's just, it's just a bunch of us, you know, and that's, that's what it was. It was great. It was wonderful.

Mike (26:33.148)
Hmm.

Mike (26:37.296)
Hehehehehehe

Mike (26:44.102)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, one of my best experiences of the weekend, um, was this guy who was actually, um, ended up being in a couple of the groups I was in, cause we had the discussion, a speaker would get up and talk about whatever step they were assigned and then we'd break off into groups and, you know, there'd be, uh, what six or seven of us, something like that, um, in the groups and we go around to discuss what we just discussed. And, um,

Yeah, this guy, he actually, the first night after, after we did the first step, he kind of cornered me afterwards and was talking to me, you know, cause I need to be cornered to be talked to. And, you know, and we just kind of, you know, blah, blah. And I was like, okay. Yeah, this guy's got some issues going on, whatever, but I talked to him and it was fine. Um, and then he ended up in the groups and actually he was one of the guys when we all met.

Bill (27:26.364)
Hahaha!

Mike (27:43.18)
in the dining room at the end of the weekend. Um, and you know, they, we said our goodbyes and stuff and, uh, they opened up and said, Hey, you know, does anybody have anything they want to say before we go our separate ways? And he was one of the guys that stood up and just, you know, thanked everybody for being there and it really helped them and all that stuff. And it was cool. And, um, I remember we, we were doing the 11 step. I got in the group with him after the 11 step and, um, he was

You know, talking, he's got like two years sober and, um, you know, he's just, he's, he was struggling. And, um, at one point he was actually sitting next to me in this group. At one point he said, you know, I feel like a fraud and dude, I just turned and looked at him. I said, we all do. It's okay, man. We're all fucking frauds. This is not our normal regular way to live. You know, it's all right, man. You know, we fake it till we make it. And he just kind of went, Oh, okay.

Bill (28:29.814)
Hahaha.

Mike (28:41.592)
Yeah, it was great. It was great.

Bill (28:41.602)
Hahaha!

Bill (28:47.19)
And that's the other thing too. So it was kind of like, I don't know, I've been in meetings before where there's a wide range of sobriety, but usually it's heavy on one end, either heavy on the newcomer end or heavy on the long-term sobriety, there's probably people there with, well, no, I can't even say that, I was gonna say with, thinner on the long-term, but I'm thinking of a handful of people right off the top of my head. So I mean, one gentleman had 40, the one who had the open meeting.

Mike (28:59.612)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike (29:10.972)
Hmm. Right.

Mike (29:15.868)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (29:16.126)
That lady that came in from the outside 44 years The guy that was our kind of running the whole thing with Mara. I think he's got 24 20 something

Mike (29:18.352)
Yeah. Right.

Mike (29:25.552)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:29.008)
Something like that. 24, 27, something like that. Yeah.

Bill (29:31.35)
Yeah, one of the one of the speakers who was up there, I think when she did step 12, because she was in a couple of the groups that I was in, she had 27 years. But there's a lot of people in there that were, you know, I, I know a couple of people I ran across, you know, it's a few weeks, it's a month, it's six months, a lot of people in that under

Mike (29:37.192)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (29:48.336)
Hmm. Well, not the newest one was four months when we had the open meeting. They did the countdown thing and he got the book. Yeah. That was the least amount of sobriety at this weekend was four months. Yep. I don't think so. Nope.

Bill (29:52.845)
Or was it?

Bill (30:00.694)
Was it? I thought there was one guy that was under 30 days. No? Okay. So, and again, I mean, I'll admit that I could easily be wrong. So I don't fucking know. There was a lot of information doled out. Let's go with four months. So four months though to 44 years, you know, and everywhere in between. And it was cool because, you know, I mean, some of these folks that were talking like that and...

Mike (30:12.671)
Right.

Absolutely.

Mike (30:19.364)
Right.

Bill (30:28.042)
You know, kind of like to your point, not necessarily saying those words that they felt like they were a fraud, but you can tell that there was some of that hesitation. And like the one individual that, you know, again, that kind of opened up through this, through this whole thing. And I forget what it was that person was talking about, but, you know, I just said, hey, I said, it's no big deal. I said, you know, I'm 13 and a half years sober and I just felt that, you know, two weeks ago. And this person looked at me like, are you fucking kidding me? You know?

Mike (30:33.565)
Mm hmm. Right.

Mike (30:55.932)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Bill (30:56.414)
And to begin with, you know, I wasn't sure if that was like amazement or, you know, like, oh my God, I've got to deal with this with 13 years also. But it was, it was, it was comfort. It was comforting to this person because they said that they're like, they're like, holy shit, that makes me feel better because, you know, kind of like we're, we're all literally all in the same boat. You know, time matters. We say that all the time, but you know, we still have to work every single day. We're walking up a down escalator, you know, every single one of us. We've just been walking for longer.

Mike (31:02.556)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Right.

Mike (31:13.86)
Yes, we are.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:22.405)
Uh huh.

Mike (31:26.1)
Right. Same fucking escalator though.

Bill (31:29.987)
Yeah, yeah, you got the dude with, you know, four months next to us and the, you know, the chick with 44 years on the other side. And yeah, we're all just walking the same fucking escalator. So all of that was good and the groups were good. And then we went out to dinner, what 26 or 27 of us went to that hibachi place. And then that was a lot of fun because, you know, doing all that stuff, they organized everything.

Mike (31:46.064)
Hmm. Right. We did.

Mm-hmm.

Bill (31:55.074)
Then the guy breaks out the fucking bottle of sake. Oh, sake for you to like, you right away, you're like, no, no sake for anyone. You're like, no, no sake for anyone. Yeah, it was just.

Mike (31:59.996)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (32:10.173)
Yeah, I could tell he was a little bit taken aback at first. Yeah. The, the watchy chef, right? You know, cause that's part of the part of the show, right? They squirt Saki in people's mouths and we're all like, nope, no thanks. None for us. Thank you. And of course I use my line. You don't have enough.

Bill (32:21.366)
Right. Yeah.

Bill (32:26.462)
I think I did. I had my sober not mature shirt on that night too. Yeah, I was just kind of like, okay, yeah, I did have that shirt on. But that was funny too, because people kept coming up to like, like I love the shirt. I was, and I told you, I was walking down the hallway the one time. And one of the, you know, this chick behind, she's like, hey, sober not mature. And I thought she saw the front and she's like, oh, I just saw it on your back. And I'm like, God, I forgot I have it on, on the back of our shirts. But

Mike (32:29.752)
Right, yeah you did.

Mike (32:49.871)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (32:51.186)
A lot of people were asking us about the podcast. Mara talked about it. We had posted in the Facebook group on it anyhow. But then, yeah, at the end, when we were kind of saying our wrap ups and our goodbyes and stuff like that at the lunch, we got the, we were able to, which I'm happy that we were able to do that, you know, had a bag full of pens and wristbands and, you know, business cards for people and people grabbed a bunch of them. And whether or not they ever listened to it, it doesn't matter that we were able to give something back to people, which I thought was...

Mike (32:54.17)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (32:58.657)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:03.257)
Right?

Mike (33:08.053)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:14.012)
They did.

Bill (33:19.518)
I mean, that's also the point. So the one thing that, and I didn't hear the beginning of the conversation, but what day was that with Jesus Boy? Was that? First of all, go ahead.

Mike (33:21.82)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:35.)
That was, it was Sunday morning. It was the Lord's day.

Bill (33:39.134)
Yes, and first of all, I want to make this really clear. This guy was not part of our group because I didn't know that right away, but you, I think you did. So, so how did the conversation even start off? The dude sits down and then I was up, of course, getting more food because that's what I do. So how did.

Mike (33:44.176)
He was not.

Hehehehe... Uh-huh.

Mike (33:56.824)
Mm-hmm. Oh, I don't know. He just like literally started tearing into me. Well, let's make it known on the back of my car, I have a bumper sticker that says, hail Satan. And I have that there because I like to make people think. That's the only reason I have it there. I'm an atheist. It's all made up. I don't believe in either side. But yeah, you know, I have it to make people think and piss people off and whatever.

Bill (34:06.402)
Hahaha

Bill (34:13.728)
Right.

Mike (34:24.251)
Cause I'm still not completely well. And, uh, anyway, you know, and, uh, we couldn't, uh, smoke anywhere on the property if we wanted, if I wanted a cigarette, I had to sit in my car. So apparently he had seen me get out of my car and, um, yeah, he just started tearing into me, you know, and I mean, not what the, you know, the original question is usually something about, you know, that, uh, and I said, look, I just looked at him. I said, look, it's all made up.

And I don't believe in any of it. It's fine. And that usually shuts people up. Um, not this guy, he, he was going to save me and

Bill (35:05.614)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Mike (35:10.428)
Uh huh. Yeah. Good luck with that. So, um, yeah, I, you know, and it was just, it actually, when I was, when I came in, I see, I knew there was another group there. Cause when we came in to the dining hall for breakfast, um, some guy, um, but wasn't there was a church group. There is a church in this facility and apparently they have like a service or whatever, um, on Sunday morning, I'm guessing. So, you know, I'm standing in line and this guy turns around and he's also, what brings you here?

And I'm all alcohol and drugs that shut him up. So that was fine. But I knew there was outsiders. Um, yeah. And anyway, this guy, he just, you know, started like, you know, how the hell did he say, um, you know, how's it? Yeah. Well, yeah, that was, you know, you should go all the way with it. You know, that was the one I almost went over the table. If, uh, I had a little more coffee, I mean, I probably would have, um,

Bill (35:45.996)
Hehehehe

Bill (35:55.286)
Demonic came up.

Bill (36:03.915)
Hehehehe

Hehehe

Mike (36:10.169)
Yeah, he's, why don't you try the blood sacrifice? I, I so wanted to say, are you volunteering? Cause we could do this right now, but I didn't. I was a good boy and I just let him go. But yes, anyway, he, he really had a problem with, um, anyone that didn't think the way that he thinks and believe the way that he believes. And I felt sorry for him in the, in the end. And, um, yeah, you know, and, um,

Bill (36:17.646)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (36:37.076)
I mean, a couple of people, a couple of people caught it. Uh, Bill just finally turned to the dude and said, Hey man, I'm trying to enjoy my breakfast here. That kind of shut them up. So yeah.

Bill (36:48.92)
Yeah, he got he got pissy cuz he you know, he's going back and forth and I mean, I don't I don't need to defend you, you know, I mean, you don't you don't need you don't need my help, you know, but I, I could tell you were being far more kind than you needed to be. That's why I missed I missed the beginning of the conversation when I sat down, I think I got part of it, then the demonic thing, I heard the alcohol and drugs or drug addicts and alcoholics, whatever you said.

Mike (36:55.915)
Mm-hmm, no.

Right.

Mike (37:03.612)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (37:14.03)
Mmhmm.

Bill (37:14.274)
And then he kept going on and on and that's the high turner. I'm like, why don't we just sit here and enjoy our breakfast? He's like, I'm enjoying my breakfast. I'm like, well, then just eat or something like that. And I'm like, Jesus, dude. Yeah, but that's what I said. I said, we're trying to enjoy our breakfast quietly and we're gonna reflect. And then you started fucking laughing because I'm like, okay, listen here, Jesus boy. Boom, there's right up your fucking ass. Which again, nothing wrong with it. If you...

Mike (37:22.956)
Right. Yeah. He was very angry and yeah, it was, you know,

Mike (37:33.296)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehehehehehe.

Mike (37:38.752)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (37:42.598)
If you're a God person or an organized religion person, we don't have any problem with you. Just this dude was, it's like, okay, if we didn't like Brussels sprouts, you know, and this dude is trying to shove Brussels sprouts down our throat, that was kind of the, that was the same thing, you know, right off the bat, I don't eat Brussels sprouts, but why not? Why not? Here, take them, take them, take them, take them, take them. So

Mike (37:48.026)
No!

Mike (37:52.8)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes, it was.

Mike (38:01.444)
Yeah. Right. Because they're not good for me.

Bill (38:09.162)
Right, because I don't like how they taste. I don't like how they, whatever. But it just, yeah, and then a couple people, later that day came up, there was one dude that spoke, I think it was on step 11 or whatever it was. Yeah, and he came up to you.

Mike (38:23.132)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Well, he had come by, he'd come by in the middle of it, like patted me on the back because he saw what was going on. Right.

Bill (38:28.042)
Right? Yeah, he said something like that. Like, yeah, you control or compose yourself, whatever it was. And then, yeah, but a few people heard about that. And I was like, damn, yeah. And then that dude walked in when, again, when we were wrapping up, because we had from like noon till 12.30. And then, again, the gentleman was helping to run things with Mara, was trying to wrap everything up. And...

Mike (38:38.669)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (38:46.661)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (38:55.638)
You know, then they start piling in and I walk him, I see him walking in and I'm just like, I'm like, hey, there's Jesus boy, there's Jesus boy. Because that's of course what he got called after that was Jesus boy, so. Which again, you know what? Everyone out there, just like we do our own thing, do your own thing, man, but just it's, I don't like to be force fed shit, anything, you know, just one question, you could have just sat down, the dude that was sitting across the table from us, like to your left.

Mike (39:01.468)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Well, of course. Great.

Mike (39:15.556)
place.

Bill (39:23.946)
When I first sat down, I didn't recognize him. I thought maybe it was just a guy I hadn't met yet. So I introduced myself. So he must've been part of that group too. He just sat there and kept his mouth shut. You know, when the shit started going back and forth, he got up and walked away. So he's probably like, man, I ain't one of these fucking shit.

Mike (39:24.851)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:31.916)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (39:42.575)
Yeah, you know, it was fine. Uh, as I, uh, Maro had commented on something in the group and I commented back, you know, I employed the principles that I was taught and I was a good boy. And yes, because if I had, if I had handled it the way I handled it, I would have gone over the table and there would have been a blood sacrifice.

Bill (39:52.61)
Hehehehe

Bill (40:01.762)
Ha ha ha. Right, which again, none of us need that today. So, you know, but then I would have ended up holding the fucker down while you hit him and then we both would have ended up in jail and I don't want to do that. It is, and that's the thing, you know, I know you don't need my help and you didn't need my help to defend you, but I just, I was getting tired of hearing him flapping his mouth, so I'm just like, God damn dude, let's just eat, fuck it. Done. All right, so.

Mike (40:07.153)
Nah, nah.

Mike (40:11.388)
Mm-hmm. It is a wee program. Ha ha ha!

Mike (40:20.728)
Mm. Right. Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (40:30.614)
Let's say, why don't we take a break after our Jesus boy conversation? So.

Mike (40:32.644)
Why don't we? Yes. All right, well, we'll be back after these words from our sponsor.

Bill (40:49.774)
All right everyone, welcome back to the non-Jesus boys in our non-Jesus boy gratitude episode. Hello!

Mike (40:54.428)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (40:59.853)
Right. Yeah. And I did that real basically, cause, uh, yeah, I could have had all kinds of things to say, but, uh, I didn't say them.

Bill (41:07.563)
I know you kind of caught me off guard. I'm like, oh wait, not that it, you know, the only thing I ever do during the breaks I mark down the time because again, you know, let's get a little window to the things that we do are marked down the time So I know where to look forward to cut the episode and I was like fuck wait He was like fuck what time was it? Oh, there it is. There it is So anything else on the weekend? I mean with the exception of the fact that oh, you know, I wrote one thing down here So the one individual so Mike and I only ended up in one group

Mike (41:20.088)
Let's look behind the curtain.

Bill (41:35.838)
because basically it was poker chips, so everyone picked the numbers, you can get in different groups, which is cool, you know, because you get to experience a lot of different people, which is the point. And I'm glad they, I've been to meetings like that before where they used to have people count off and either, you know, one, two, three, or one, two, and then you break off into groups that way, you know, which is, which is nice because again, you get a mixture, you know, but so Mike and I were in one group, I don't remember after what step, but the, the one individual was talking about, she said that

Mike (41:41.426)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (41:53.145)
Uh-huh.

Bill (42:03.426)
The way that she looks at starting her day or her sobriety is that, and she's, I think she's a year or two sober. She's young-ish in the program. But she said waking up every day, she looks at herself as though she's at the edge of a cliff. And then with every piece of recovery that she does, she backs away from the cliff, you know. So, which I'm a huge, huge visual person.

Mike (42:11.068)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (42:19.618)
Oh yeah.

Bill (42:30.054)
And both of us, you commented on it first, you're like, I like that. And I'm like, that's great, you know, because again, being visual. So picture this, you know, again, you start off your day when you wake up and like we do our readings and all that stuff. So with every word, with every reading, rather than, you know, toes at the edge of the cliff, you know, basically ready to fall, you know, we slowly back away. But then she says, she goes, then at the end of the night, go away. And I'm like, I can't even see the edge of the cliff. But then I wake up the next morning right at the edge of the cliff again.

Mike (42:35.417)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (42:47.076)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (42:57.769)
Hehehehe, yup, that was great!

Bill (43:00.046)
Yeah, we all got a good laugh out of that because it is. I mean, it's what a perfect visualization of how this thing that we do works, you know.

Mike (43:03.356)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (43:06.584)
Yeah. And great visual is an analogy of, of yes, we wake up in the morning and all that shit we did yesterday to get away from the edge of the cliff, we open our eyes and we're right fucking back there again. Yeah. We got to remember that.

Bill (43:20.575)
Right. I know. And that's why again, you know, being visual like I am, I'm like, man, that is perfect. And I hope that I never forget that because things like that, usually, again, visual things I'll hang on to, kind of like the escalator thing. You know, but yeah, it was great. That was just one of the many, many things that we heard. But I actually made a note of that because I wanted to share that with everyone.

Mike (43:28.88)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (43:42.364)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (43:45.892)
Yeah, definitely. I'm glad you did.

Bill (43:47.306)
Yeah, yet again, another thing that we have now stolen. And I think I told her I was going to steal that. But that's what we do in this thing, right?

Mike (43:54.057)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I definitely had, you know, it's, it's in my pocket now and it's not going anywhere.

Bill (44:00.734)
Right. Yeah, it's good. So anything else on the retreat at all?

Mike (44:06.764)
Now, just, um, you know, again, I was not looking particularly forward to it. And now I'm looking forward to going back in June.

Bill (44:16.662)
Right, oh, so you're looking, what is that? Is that?

Mike (44:19.128)
Uh, it's the end of May. It's last weekend of May. I think the Sunday is June 1st this year. So next year, whatever. Yeah. So, yeah, I think so. I mean, they have one in March too. I'm definitely not doing that, but, um, yeah, I think, I think so.

Bill (44:24.923)
Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Bill (44:36.042)
Yeah, that's, uh, and that was one and that was the only thing that I told Mara. And this was not a complaint, but, um, so this, this whole facility is right on, it's right on the lake. It's right on Lake Erie. And when we got there on Friday, I mean, it was, it was a little chilly, but then, I mean, it was like,

Mike (44:47.032)
Yeah. Yup. No, it was blowing and raining and it was nasty out. Yeah.

Bill (44:54.482)
Yeah, and that's the thing. There was rain and then like 20 to 30 mile an hour winds coming right off the lake. It was, it was uncomfortable. And, um, you know, still a little chilly while we were there, but I told her, I'm like, um, if I, if I came back to one of those things, I would, nothing wrong with that one in November, but I would rather come back to a warm weather one, you know, because it would just be so nice. And, um, I just, I've become now a huge fan of sitting outside and doing my readings and sitting by water and all those sorts of things.

Mike (44:58.951)
Mm-hmm.

Yes it was.

Mike (45:14.789)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (45:21.451)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (45:22.878)
I just think it would add just another element to the weekend, you know, being in the warm weather. So yeah, June. And that should be, that might actually be what the weekend before Founders Day, I would think, right?

Mike (45:27.544)
Absolutely.

Mike (45:36.316)
I would imagine because founder's day is like the 14th. I think the actual date that bill and Bob met each other was the 14th. So, um, yeah. So it's usually that weekend, whatever's closest to it. Just, yeah, the second week founders day is the second weekend in June.

Bill (45:38.005)
Oh yeah, I suppose if the...

Bill (45:45.218)
Was it? Okay.

Bill (45:52.158)
Okay, okay. So yeah, well, not that it matters, but I was just trying to figure out in, in my head. But yeah, I'd like to go back to it was it was fun. It was it was a lot of fun. And yeah, so oh, if Gary's listening, so I do we have to tell him he was right? Get when Gary told us that we were gonna, you know, kind of get become, I don't want to say addicted that we're addicted to it now, but that we're really gonna enjoy him. We keep wanting to go back.

Mike (45:56.156)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (46:17.196)
Mmm. Heheheheheheheheheheh.

Bill (46:19.846)
Do we have to admit that to Gary or no? Okay, all right, Gary, so you, how about this? Gary, you may have been correct. We've only been to one. We end up going to a lot more in the future than at that point, we'll say for sure you were right. Okay, there. That's as much as we're given at this point. But so yeah, like I said, anything else with that or?

Mike (46:23.045)
Um, yeah, I suppose.

Mike (46:29.656)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (46:35.196)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (46:43.92)
No, no, just, um, you know, I mean, if you are part of this 12 step thing, um, don't wait 13 and a half years to go to something like that. Cause, uh, it was pretty damn good. I know I definitely was, uh, you know, pretty damn recharged after that. You know, of course I crashed and burned a couple of days later and was really pissed off, but you know, that that's just my, my balance in my life thing. I was way too high up. I had to, I had to be a nasty person for a day or so.

Bill (47:05.938)
Ha ha!

Mike (47:12.932)
But yeah, I'm now back to just be sick. So it's fine.

Bill (47:15.422)
Right. But yeah, and think about that if I, in 13 years or 40 years or two years, you know, I think that going in early recovery, I think would have been hugely beneficial to some, for something like that, you know, and I mean, again, not that we've done something right, but I just think that would have been another really nice tool to have in our little toolbox earlier in recovery than 13 and a half years.

Mike (47:29.144)
Yeah, definitely.

Mike (47:35.417)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (47:40.899)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, we don't do this thing perfectly. But we do it.

Bill (47:47.862)
Right, right. Yeah, listen to us for the jokes. That's what we're here for. Not necessarily all the great advice. All right, so the audiobook, Matthew Perry's audiobook. I don't think this is going to take a ton of time unless you got a lot of input on it. But so I started listening to it on my way up to Appleton and back a couple weeks ago

Mike (47:54.812)
Aha!

Hehehehe

Mike (48:03.924)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (48:15.846)
listen to the rest of it between the trip out to the retreat back. And the book I think was, it's eight or nine hours, you know, as far as the audiobook, which is pretty normal. I think Dave Grohl's book was probably that too. It is read by Matthew Perry. And the thing that was interesting to me though, just like this is kind of a side note on that, to begin with when he started to read it, I was like, his, his voice, he almost sounds slurry a little bit, but

Mike (48:26.668)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (48:42.556)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (48:43.034)
Which is weird, but I'm like, okay, you know. But I guess at the end of All Said and Done, he was talking a lot about being 53 and that sort of thing. So at the time that he recorded this, had to be within less than the last two years. And I think the book came out a year ago. So, yeah, so whatever. He was 53-ish. I don't remember what his birthday was or what the recording was. But, you know, basically.

Mike (49:00.044)
Right. Yeah. Little more. Yeah.

Bill (49:10.786)
at the time he was reading this apparently, and I'm not gonna spoil it, but it sounds like he was sober at the time he did this. So that could have been true that he was, at least at that point, he was sober. But the book starts out, and this is kind of like sets up the entire book, and I was shaking my head at the beginning of it after the story. So when you were little, when I was little, I never flew alone, but by the time Kimmy got to the point when Pam and I, my ex-spudop,

Mike (49:17.926)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (49:21.306)
Right?

Bill (49:40.402)
I used to fly her back and forth to Ohio every once in a while when I was out there back and forth this and that the whole unaccompanied minor thing, you know, and it was fine. You know, we drop her off one, you know, a person named person would drop her off, name person picked her up there. She's with somebody in the whole thing. I'll have to ask her, you know, but I think she used to enjoy the shit out of it, you know, and probably when she was, you know, six, seven, eight years old, somewhere in that area. So

Mike (50:01.892)
Right?

Mike (50:07.068)
Hmm.

Bill (50:07.958)
Matthew Perry did that. He was talking about his, first of all, his dad was the Old Spice guy. I didn't know that. And then he married, his mom was, ended up being this like this right-hand person to somebody in the Canadian government. I can't remember what this like Bassiter Prime Minister blah, blah. So she was a big deal. Dad was an actor and this and that blah, all this stuff. But you know, he described as very beautiful people that got together young. They didn't stay together much. And then

Mike (50:14.532)
Right.

Mike (50:24.988)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (50:37.89)
His dad left and then they were in Canada and that's how that part started. So dad ended up in California, mom still in Canada with him, so he would fly back and forth to see his dad as an unaccompanied miner. So he's telling this story about these flights and I'm thinking to myself, I remember my daughter, but he's talking about it like he had this whole abandonment thing from, I mean, like at that age from flying along.

Mike (50:42.844)
Mm.

Mike (50:52.741)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (51:04.966)
Hmm.

Bill (51:06.83)
And in my head, I'm like, really? But it was like he'd see the lights of this and then he'd be, he'd get mad because he was like, why are they just leaving me? Why are they doing this? Why can't somebody just drive up and get me? And he said that he almost named the book Unaccompanied Minor. And I'm like, wow, really? So this is right at the beginning. All throughout the book, he keeps referring back to the story, you know, about him. I'm not good enough, I've never been wanted. I still feel like an unaccompanied minor. And I'm like, damn, okay. So there's this, and again, he's 53 when he's recording this, but.

Mike (51:07.92)
No.

Bill (51:36.77)
you know, talking about these stories all the way through. So that's just a side note. That's where all this stuff is, you know, kind of, I don't want to say littered through, but you know, spark, sprinkled through the entire book. He, through the entire book, in my opinion, never seemed to be humbled at all. And it just, it was almost uncomfortable, you know, because just as he's talking about these different things and just he...

Mike (51:36.924)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (51:46.02)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (51:54.692)
Hmm.

Bill (52:02.838)
He threw in things about his material items that were unnecessary in my opinion for his story. And that's where I got the thing about, again, he worked really hard to get where he was. I don't take that away from him. Putting his dues was in the right place at the right time, but also worked really hard to get in the right place at the right time. So in my opinion, he deserved the breaks that he got because he made those breaks for himself. But he'd sit there and talk about it. He's like, oh, as I'm sitting here in my...

Mike (52:08.892)
Hmm.

Mike (52:28.613)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (52:32.91)
$20 million apartment in wherever. Or he was at this bad moment, he was having his bedrooms, but he's like, he goes, I'm looking at my automatic blinds. And I'm like, do you really have to say that they're automatic blinds? Because that means money. And then he'd be talking about, I was driving my green Porsche, or I was driving this, or all these nice cars, I don't even remember what kind of cars I had. And these things were sprinkled again throughout the entire thing. So.

Mike (52:46.726)
Hehehe

Mm-hmm.

Mike (53:01.404)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (53:01.854)
You know, the humility thing doesn't seem like he ever got a handle on. Um, then the other, this is the other thing that he said, this was quite a few times. I can handle being sober until something happens, until anything happens. And I'm like, fuck me. You know, I'm like that, that's not a good thing, right? You know, so, um, but he did say, like we were talking about a couple episodes ago, you know, whereas like you made the point of saying that you can't give away something you don't have.

Mike (53:14.8)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mike (53:22.432)
Right.

Mike (53:32.49)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (53:32.73)
He acknowledges that throughout the book, you know, and saying that he goes, you know, he goes, God, he goes, at this time, he goes, I even have, I've got sponsors that have far more time than I do, you know, that type of thing. So that's the part. Oh, here's the other part that was just weird. When he talks about the founders of Alcoholics or the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous, he only mentions Bill Wilson, never mentions Dr. Bob. And he talks about it a couple of times. That I just thought was.

Mike (53:42.332)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (53:56.484)
Mmm. Hmm.

Bill (54:01.666)
Kind of like tilt my head going, huh? Heh heh.

Mike (54:04.692)
Right. Well, you know, I think that's a wonderful example of how he was working this thing. He was only working half of it. Yeah.

Bill (54:13.526)
Right, and it was weird, or, you know, I mean, because in my head I'm like, did he only identify with Bill Wilson and how he was and his egotistical and that type of character? Because Bill was, Bill was a fucking, no, Bill's a fucking egotist, we can all admit that. And, you know, right.

Mike (54:24.848)
Mm hmm. Oh yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. And he even admitted it. So, right.

Bill (54:34.998)
So, sorry, drink a coffee. I thought you were gonna say more than that. Ha ha ha.

Mike (54:36.668)
Mm-hmm. I was actually taking a drink of something too. I'm trying to keep my throat lubricated so I don't hack into this microphone. And I did anyway, but right.

Bill (54:46.183)
All right. And you don't feel well, so I'm not going to say anything about you lubricating your throat.

Mike (54:54.072)
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. As long as you're not the one doing the lubrication. Um, anyway, so, but yeah, I mean, it does sound like it, and it sounds like you never got over the better than worse than thing that we all need to get over. Cause we all are better than others and we all are worse than others. And you know, a big part of this program is learning how to.

Bill (54:54.882)
Hehehehe

Bill (54:59.304)
Right.

Mike (55:21.752)
that we are exactly the same as others, you know, to one degree or another. I mean, I still work on that all the time, you know, I'm better than that asshole or I'm not as good as that asshole or yeah, and it sounds like you never got anywhere near that, which is sad. And again, that's probably why it didn't work for him.

Bill (55:40.098)
Right. And, and I think that I don't think anyone's under the illusion that either one of us are perfect at this thing. We just said that, you know, a couple of minutes ago and I'm no fucking expert, but, you know, I can listen to an alcoholic that seems to have a decent alcoholic or drug addict because he, you know, he was definitely into both. But I can listen to one of us. We've been around this thing long enough and I can hear somebody. I can, I can hear the.

Mike (55:49.405)
Mmm. Great.

Mike (55:58.488)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (56:05.305)
Uh-huh.

Bill (56:07.222)
The things that kind of, again, make you just go, mm, if it makes me uncomfortable, then, you know, I'm not saying that somebody's doing something wrong. It's just maybe they're kind of skewing off and sliding off this path. And he admittedly, I mean, he said that, I think he said that he was in detox. He was someone got to think about it 60 times or something like that, or, you know, and, you know, talked about the, that's the other thing. So he talked about the.

Mike (56:11.582)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (56:21.198)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (56:27.232)
Oh yeah, right, right.

Bill (56:32.31)
you know, the millions of dollars he spent in rehab, which I think part of that's like, oh, okay, I wanna know that, but then, then he'd talk about some trauma in his life, and he's like, well, that cost me, you know, three million dollars to figure out. Again, let's see, throwing out dollars and cents and stuff like that, and I just, I'm just like, it's that, that's not the point, you know? The fact that you had a ton of fucking money is irrelevant, you know?

Mike (56:38.947)
Mm.

Mike (56:44.644)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (56:54.556)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (56:55.126)
The fact that he, you know, what they did and the salaries they made on Frenzy talked about those sort of things. That was all fucking public knowledge. Everyone knows that. Well, anyone who's read anything about Friends knows that they were making a million plus an episode. You know, so if you could look up what his net worth was and all that stuff, he just seemed to really focus on that. But yeah, to your point, I didn't think about that with the Bill Wilson thing that they work in half of this thing, you know.

Mike (57:02.444)
Right.

Mike (57:12.828)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (57:17.932)
Right. You need to acknowledge the entire program. Otherwise it doesn't work. Something about half measures. Hmm. Something like that or exactly like that.

Bill (57:22.922)
Right. Of eldest nothing, I think, or something like that.

Bill (57:29.278)
Yeah, exactly like that. So then here's the thing. So through this whole, okay, now, I had heard a little bit about the health issues, but man, you talk about the health issues that he had related to and outside of, you know, alcohol and drug use. I mean, again, he had his colon explode, you know, from the opiates, you know, that he was taking so much. Oh, yeah, fucking messed up, you know.

Mike (57:46.716)
Hmm. Good times. Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, yeah. You can't shit when you're doing that stuff. Yep. Blocks you up.

Bill (57:53.098)
Yeah, yeah, it was in colostomy bag, the whole fucking bit. He went through a bunch of shit. I mean, it was terrible. But then he said, and this was, he quit smoking finally. Like it must've been around the time that he was recording this. He was a three pack a day smoker, which I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, cause he was saying, well, cause he was saying, he goes, I was trying to cut down to, you know, at one point he was trying to cut down because of this health thing.

Mike (58:10.904)
Oof. Damn. Thought I smoked a lot.

Bill (58:20.438)
So he laid down at night one time and he heard like this wheezing and he went into the doctor and they were told, okay, so you've been smoking for all these years, blah, blah. You need to quit like yesterday type of thing, you know, so then he had problems with that. You know, so and basically they were telling him like if you don't quit, you're going to die. Okay. So and he even mentioned in that part of this process, he's like, okay, so, you know, I could end up with, you know, an oxygen tank or an oxygen, this and that. That's no way to live.

Mike (58:21.273)
Mm.

Mike (58:24.867)
Mm.

Mike (58:31.62)
Right.

Bill (58:50.474)
And he said, or he goes, he goes, if I keep doing this, he goes, he goes, if I have a heart attack and nobody's around, he goes, I'm a goner. And I'm like, holy fuck, that's what happened. So then I'm like, then I'm like, okay, you know, so supposedly he, he quit smoking and was vaping and then like, no, you got to get off all of it. So at the end in his wrap up, he's saying thank you to everyone and all this stuff that he's grateful for. He's thrown all his gratitude shit and

Mike (58:59.604)
Mm-hmm. Heh heh heh.

Bill (59:15.742)
He was able to get over the drugs, able to get over the alcohol, the smoking, and the people that helped him, and blah, blah. So at least at that timeframe, again, a couple years ago at the most, apparently he was off all that shit. But I mean, he had the lung thing, he had this colon thing, he had all these different things. It could be, he may or may not relapse, but I mean, again, all these different things. I don't know if he was smoking more because he was drinking and using, most of us do.

Mike (59:15.929)
Uh.

Mike (59:25.945)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (59:44.75)
Right.

Bill (59:45.234)
I smoked for years, but as I sat there, if I drank, I smoked more. You know, I always did. I think everyone does, right?

Mike (59:50.3)
Oh yeah, right, right, yeah, we do. Hey, throw some speed in there, man. Smoke like a chimney. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Bill (59:59.039)
See, you know, I never got the pleasure of experiencing that. I said there's my air quote pleasure of experiencing that. But so the thing with it is I have no regrets in listening to it. I'm glad I did. You know, I learned some things. You know, it's always, you know, I wasn't looking for.

Mike (01:00:01.996)
Mmm, yes he did.

Mike (01:00:13.156)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (01:00:19.134)
Years ago, what I would have listened to this for is like, okay, what do I not do so I don't end up like Matthew Perry? Or, look at how great I'm doing. I'm not doing things like Matthew Perry did. But it wasn't that, it was just, it's just kind of like take it in. We take in all this knowledge, no bad examples. And I'm still a Y person, and it's interesting to know the type of program that he worked and all his different things.

Mike (01:00:25.564)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:00:31.796)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:00:36.859)
Right.

Mike (01:00:46.492)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:00:46.67)
I mean, think about that. I mean, there's so many people. He granted he hit a lot of this stuff. He was, you know, drinking on the side, using on the side, doing all these different things like all of us do. Um, you know, but even in the points when he, when he was doing that, um, you know, all these different people. And it just, you know, I wonder if, if he just got to the point when he, when he was doing this book, that he was just honest about it and all his basically lack of humility and only maybe work in half the program.

if he inadvertently was just honest. You know what I mean? I mean, accidentally.

Mike (01:01:15.446)
Mm.

Mike (01:01:21.083)
Right. Yeah. Exactly. That'll happen occasionally.

Bill (01:01:25.778)
You know, I know and I'm sure that there, I mean, take us for example, I don't think we've necessarily been, thankfully, you know, maybe been more honest on here than we would off, you know, not in front of a mic, but I know that we've been more open about stuff. We've talked about things. We've had, you know, these revelations and all that sort of stuff. And, you know, you talk long enough, you know, in like an eight hour audio book or, you know,

Mike (01:01:45.202)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:01:54.506)
a 90 minute podcast every fucking week. Sooner or later, the shit's gonna come out of your mouth and then you're like, God, did I just say that? You know, but it's all good stuff, you know, but I don't know, it'll be interesting. I'll tell you, it'll be interesting to see what comes back from this, but yeah, he had some, God, I mean, the things that he did to his body over the years, fucking staggering, that's some of those stories, but.

Mike (01:01:57.273)
Mhm.

Mike (01:02:02.78)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (01:02:12.226)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:02:19.802)
Yeah.

Bill (01:02:23.414)
Yeah, like I said, the main things were the, just didn't seem like he was, like he was humbled and I didn't even pick up on the half measures type of thing. But yeah, just, it's all interesting. I highly recommend it to anyone, even if you're not a, you don't necessarily have to be a fan of Friends. If you have any interest in the entertainment world or how an actor goes through, that interests me sometimes about where people came from and stuff. But even if you're not a Friends fan or not,

Mike (01:02:30.652)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Right?

Mike (01:02:50.978)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:02:52.638)
specifically that if you're in this type of thing and you went through the stuff that a lot of us go through, it's a good read or a good listen. But, it does and kind of makes me shake my head thinking, damn, just crazy. And again, 54 years old, one way or the other, some portion of this thing got him, however it is, some portion of this thing got him.

Mike (01:03:01.412)
Right. Yeah. Makes you think. Yeah.

Mike (01:03:08.494)
Mmm.

Mike (01:03:17.728)
Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Blow your ass out. It's not good for you. Write that one down.

Bill (01:03:24.81)
Yeah, and it was... Ha ha ha! Uh, hang on one second. Note... Two... Blowing or blow in? Is with an apostrophe or an ing? Okay, blow in your... God, I think I feel an episode title, but... I don't know. I... Usually when you say shit like that, it ends up being on the episode title. But, um... So... Any...

Mike (01:03:35.512)
Yeah. Apostrophe.

Mike (01:03:41.916)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mike (01:03:48.092)
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehe

Bill (01:03:51.186)
Any questions out of that stuff? I mean, that was the basics of that. I mean, I don't think I got huge revelations, but the smoking thing was kind of the big thing for me surprisingly through this whole thing. Yeah, I mean, basically he said that, you can have a heart attack and die. Yeah.

Mike (01:03:55.843)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:04:06.432)
Right. Yeah. That is a little weird. Yeah. Well, you know, like the big book says, man, you know, self-knowledge is pretty fucking worthless to us. Yeah. And apparently had some self-knowledge and it was worthless.

Bill (01:04:08.191)
I know, I know, so...

Bill (01:04:13.974)
Right? Yeah.

Bill (01:04:18.314)
Right. Oh, and the last thing, the Perry house thing, that sober house thing, it sounded like that he sold that off because he wasn't getting the clientele and it sounded like it was, cause he had said, he goes, I don't know, he goes, if there's, however, he put it too much out there, this or that, but he said it could have been the cost, you know, cause it sounded like it was, which I didn't realize when I read the bit of it. And, you know, I think you had read something about that too.

Mike (01:04:25.06)
Yeah, right, right.

Mike (01:04:34.391)
Hmm.

Bill (01:04:47.306)
I didn't realize it was like a higher end type of rehab, but apparently it was, you know, so I think that they were probably getting, you know, trouble trying to get people into beds at whatever, however much money they were charging. So, well, and I'm sure he had a, you know, it's probably a $20 million house that, you know, the, cause it was one of his houses, you know.

Mike (01:04:51.004)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:04:57.324)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:05:05.784)
Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. You know, he used to be an addict and now he's not passages and Malibu.

Bill (01:05:11.558)
Right. What was that for? Passages. I was going to say Malibu's, but I'm like, I know it's not Malibu's, but passages. Passages and Malibu. Okay. So, yeah, that's all I know about Matthew Perry. But one way or the other, I think it'll still be interesting to see how all of that stuff pans out. But, I don't know.

Mike (01:05:21.66)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (01:05:32.828)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't know. It's not gonna affect me one way or another.

Bill (01:05:38.986)
Right? Yeah, it was just like I said, it was, I'm not unhappy that I, you know, that I listened to it, but it was interesting. It's worth the listen if nothing else. Alright, so, we got time.

Mike (01:05:45.225)
Mmm. Great.

Mike (01:05:50.469)
All right.

Mike (01:05:54.116)
I'll be checking out these sober friends podcast.

Bill (01:05:56.926)
Yeah, and once again, seriously, I highly recommend that. It's, you know, especially the, again, decoding the big book. You'll see them all the way through there. And they're on the newer side of it. So if you're looking at newer to older episodes, it's on the newer side. So I was listening to a podcast, and the guest had said that she was told that she was told by somebody in a meeting, or maybe it was on social media.

Mike (01:06:01.244)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:06:04.528)
Alright, yeah, yeah.

Bill (01:06:24.598)
that she couldn't refer to herself as sober unless she identified as an alcoholic. And I kind of, again, kind of turned my head and I'm like, wait a second, what? So somebody.

Mike (01:06:35.908)
I just cocked my head like a dog. All right. Say that again now.

Bill (01:06:38.442)
Yeah, so this lady was a guest on a podcast and her Instagram handle says like sober lady or whatever it is. So it's got sober in a title. And I think it was somebody on social media said that I think she refers to herself as alcohol free, not as an alcoholic, I think, if I remember correctly. So the this whoever this person was said that she was unable to refer to herself as sober unless she identified as an alcoholic. And it sounded like it was somebody from a 12 step program that told her that.

Mike (01:06:42.658)
Uh-huh.

Mike (01:06:47.764)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Mike (01:06:55.772)
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:07:08.298)
So the reason I wrote it down, I'm like, have you ever fucking heard such a thing? Right, and I'm like, wait a second, what page of the big book is that on? It's not, but it just completely, it just blew my mind. I was just like, that doesn't even make any sense.

Mike (01:07:13.352)
Nah.

Mike (01:07:18.974)
Yeah, right.

Uh-huh.

Mike (01:07:28.856)
Right, yeah, right, I mean. Okay, words again, terms, right, yeah. Okay people, settle down.

Bill (01:07:35.37)
Right, right.

Bill (01:07:40.134)
I know it just did sometimes these things I write these things down because it bothers me that there's that there's people out there resent earth presenting maybe that is resenting. Representing you know that the 12 step program that the we so you know we hold so dearly to our hearts and you know trying to throw shit out like that and you know painting all of us with the same brush. Yeah, sorry right. Right yeah.

Mike (01:07:49.814)
Yeah, yeah, there is.

Mike (01:07:57.884)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:08:04.036)
Right. That's our job. We paint us all with the same brush.

Bill (01:08:10.338)
Yeah, I forgot it. Yeah. I got something more to be irritated at. Yeah, you fucker. Get your own podcast. Remember when I said that I thought I had something about chaos? Here's my board had been recovering chaos. I'll cross that one off. This is an on-the-fly type of thing. I had no idea how much time we would spend on these other things, so I was just scanning down through here.

Mike (01:08:12.184)
Yeah! Yeah, get your own fucking brush. This is ours.

Mike (01:08:31.365)
Okay?

Bill (01:08:39.638)
Okay, so this one is from Keep It Simple, which do you, that's one that you read now, right? Okay. So.

Mike (01:08:47.108)
Yeah. That's it. That's my third in rotation. Um, getting through my second year. Yeah.

Bill (01:08:54.078)
Oh yeah, so yeah, the one that I read that you don't right now is the book A Day at a Time. That's my fourth. Okay, so this was from, again, from when, whatever. It says, today as I work step 10, so probably in October, I'll focus on my actions. How have I acted sober today? Okay, and the reason I wrote that down, and I put parentheses, seems like a weird question because it's talking about step 10.

Mike (01:09:00.554)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:21.146)
Hmm

Bill (01:09:22.898)
And how have I acted sober today? And I don't know, let's just leave it, leave it at that first. You're just straight off the top. What are your, what do you think about that? How have I think about that in your step 10 work? How have I acted sober today? Does that seem weird or do you have thoughts on that?

Mike (01:09:38.484)
No, it actually doesn't. I mean, yeah. How have I acted sober? How have I acted like I wouldn't have acted before? You know, like, uh, last Sunday I didn't leap over the table and snap the Jesus boy neck. That's how I acted sober that day. Oh, you know, today I've been laying on the couch and, you know, uh, drinking tea, which I suppose is sober. Um, um, yeah.

Bill (01:09:52.161)
Right.

Mike (01:10:07.968)
You know, again, uh, how have I acted like differently than I did before I was sober? I think is probably a better way to phrase it. How have I acted today differently than I would have before I was sober? Yeah.

Bill (01:10:22.698)
Right. Okay. Yeah. And I get it now. And it's just, I even read it a couple of times now, and it just wasn't making any sense to me because I was thinking about step 10 as far as figuring, you know, the good and the bad. But that's the point is that the good that I did today is because I'm sober, you know, whereas the bad goes back to my, you know, hopefully I, you know, admitted things and corrected them and, you know, promptly admitted and took care of any anything I did shitty today, which again, hopefully I did nothing shitty, but so yeah, it just

Mike (01:10:34.733)
Mhm.

Mike (01:10:38.073)
Right?

Mike (01:10:43.036)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:10:47.578)
Right.

Bill (01:10:51.058)
Again, a lot of times if it makes me pause for a minute, then I'm like, I'm just gonna write this down, we'll deal with it later. You know, because I'm like, I don't wanna think about this one anymore, because then I have nothing to talk about. So, okay, so that makes sense. So it's like, yeah, acting differently.

Mike (01:10:58.237)
Mm-hmm. Ho ho ho.

Mike (01:11:05.164)
Right. Yeah. Right. Acting the way that we were taught to act, not the way that we want to act.

Bill (01:11:14.25)
Right. No, and that's, I mean, that makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. Again, now that I'm, again, getting your input, that's why I do that. All right. So you know what? Let's just do one more. We've been yipping in the app for a long time, but I know you still don't feel good. So all right. So this is from... Well, you know what? It actually... Let's...

Mike (01:11:18.46)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:11:24.036)
Right. He, he, he.

Mike (01:11:30.338)
Okay.

Mike (01:11:35.427)
Mm-hmm. My feelings don't matter today. Heh heh heh. Cough.

Bill (01:11:44.386)
Let me just step aside here real quick and tell you and the listeners that I appreciate, number one, the fact that you were able to do this or that you did do it. I know your commitment and our commitment and all that. So I mean, we commit to it. And let's take a side note on that. So fuck everyone else out there that takes a hiatus and a break. And my friend Mike over there doesn't feel good. He actually ended up missing Thanksgiving because he didn't feel good. And he's here trying to please you motherfuckers. Okay, so.

Mike (01:11:47.236)
Yeah.

Mike (01:11:55.269)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:12:04.024)
Uh huh. Right.

Mike (01:12:08.421)
That's right.

Mike (01:12:12.772)
Yeah, take that, assholes!

Bill (01:12:13.942)
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so back to my original side note, which I forgot. So we'll forget that. Okay, so this is from another reading, but this is from the book that I read, A Day at a Time. So the reading talked about pride, called it the root sin. Do you feel that pride is a problem for you on a regular basis, and how do you deal with it? You know, first of all, the root sin, we talk about fear all the time being like the root problem.

Mike (01:12:19.772)
Hehehehe

Mike (01:12:26.977)
Okay.

Mike (01:12:41.436)
Mm hmm. Right.

Bill (01:12:42.722)
Do you consider our pride to be the root sin? I guess let's do that first.

Mike (01:12:49.444)
Right. No, no. I mean, other, you know, other than it kind of encompasses the selfishness and self centeredness, um, to a degree, but just by itself, no. Cause I mean, there are things that I, I have healthy pride about today. And yeah, you know, um, there's nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments. It's it's being prideful of things that you had nothing to fucking do with, which we did all the time. I know I did.

Bill (01:12:50.337)
Okay.

Mike (01:13:18.)
Um, so yeah, but no, being the, I mean, again, right there in the big book, black and white, man, the root of our troubles is selfishness and self centeredness. The root of our sins, the root of everything is, is my selfishness. Um, yeah. And it kind of rolls into it, but not really, you know, I have that help. I have that healthy pride today. I am proud of this thing. I'm proud of my sobriety. I'm proud of being a better person than I was 13 years ago. Um, yeah.

You know, nothing wrong with that. I got to remember that, you know, what I did yesterday doesn't fucking count for today. Waking up being on the edge of that cliff, but, um, but yeah, no, absolutely not. It's not the root of my sins. No, no, no. The root of my sins are, is my unhealthy obsession with myself.

Bill (01:13:52.682)
Hehehe

Bill (01:13:56.92)
Right.

Bill (01:14:10.11)
Right. Yeah. And it's just, like I said, that I like that reading. It's every once in a while I have, you know, just kind of, I don't know, it doesn't always go off in a weird direction, but all of them do. Every once in a while I have these little things like that. And I'm just like, really? Pride? I don't know the pride is a root sin, but I get it. It's a problem, like you said, you know, being prideful, taking credit for, or trying to take credit for things we had nothing to do with. I get all that. But yeah, when it...

Mike (01:14:24.508)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:36.777)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:14:37.942)
I mean, there's a huge difference between pride and ego. And even a certain amount of ego is healthy as long as you're not egotistical. We have to feel good about ourselves. If we don't feel good about ourselves, I mean, what the fuck is the point of doing this? I mean, what's it going to do with anything if you don't feel good about yourself? So...

Mike (01:14:43.59)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:48.22)
Sure. Right.

Mike (01:14:53.229)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:58.12)
Exactly.

Mike (01:15:03.004)
Mm-hmm. Right. Oh yeah. You know, and I mean, to the point of trying to take credit for things we didn't have anything to do with, you know, when I have a birthday anymore, I mean, seriously, the last 10 years or something, probably more, I don't fucking care about my birthday. I don't, you know, Chris, my girlfriend, she's like, you know, it's your birthday. I'm like, I don't fucking care. I had nothing to do with it. You know, my dad left it in big fucking deal.

Bill (01:15:13.806)
Hehehehe

Bill (01:15:30.935)
Hehehehe

Mike (01:15:32.008)
I didn't have a goddamn thing to do with it. I'm proud. I celebrate April 22nd. That's something I can be proud of and that's something to celebrate. My February 18th doesn't mean shit to me anymore. You know, it used to be, I mean, my old behaviors was, you know, my birthday week, my birthday month, you know. I mean, it's the way I was and I'm not anymore. I don't fucking care about my birthday anymore because it's, I had nothing to do with it.

Bill (01:15:50.306)
Hehehehehehe

Mike (01:16:02.392)
Nothing. Yeah.

Bill (01:16:03.914)
Yeah, and I mean, we've talked about, I know you and I have talked about it. I'm sure I said it on here. I've got, you know, my top three about, you know, days that I care about throughout the year. My anniversary is the first one. Father's Day is the second one. You know, these are things that I'm like with my kids. I said, you know, I wanna do something with you guys on my birthday. I just wanna have lunch with you, that's all. Because, you know, it just, it's, that's my celebration. I don't want or need gifts. I don't need anyone to make a big fucking deal out of it because I don't care.

Mike (01:16:14.808)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:16:24.848)
Sure. Right.

Mike (01:16:30.704)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Bill (01:16:32.51)
And it's not because I care about getting another year older. I don't give a fuck anymore. I just don't, you know? Um, but my anniversary is hugely same thing you said, you know, it's hugely important to me and, um, in father's day, you know, I, I like to be acknowledged because, you know, that's something that I, I lost with my daughter for years, you know, I mean, I, I lost the, the right to be her father, you know, and then, you know, my, my son, I could have lost it and I wasn't the best dad to him.

Mike (01:16:54.041)
Right?

Bill (01:17:01.814)
You know, but now, you know, I think I kind of have my shit together on a daily basis. And, you know, I think my kids kind of dig me every once in a while. So, you know, I at least acknowledge and say, hey, Happy Father's Day. Same deal. I don't want or need a gift. I don't need anything special. I would love to get together and same thing, have lunch with them, you know. And my anniversary, I made my son take me out to lunch on my anniversary. Yeah. One year. Yeah. Yep.

Mike (01:17:08.363)
Mm-hmm.

Right!

Mike (01:17:22.748)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:17:27.088)
Yeah, there you go. You're bumming on this day, boy.

Bill (01:17:31.39)
I said, why don't you take me out to lunch for my anniversary, man? You know, and he did. He did. I don't remember when that was probably. It might've been a handful of years ago, but, uh, but yeah, he's a, again, my, my kids are good kids and, you know, I mean, they, they do all the right things most of the time and, uh, but like you said that, yeah, I mean, birthdays, I, yeah, that was the funniest thing you said that I think when we were talking about, that was our.

Mike (01:17:37.674)
Nice, nice.

Mike (01:17:43.097)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:17:58.258)
anniversary episode the first year that you that you had said that about. Yeah, you know, we were talking about birthdays and or important dates and anniversary. Same deal was our important dates. And then you're like, yeah, my dad just left it in and hopefully my mom let him. Yeah, that was the that was the follow up to that. So yeah, but okay. Well, I think I think I think we're good. I think we're good. We still have.

Mike (01:18:07.384)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (01:18:13.788)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (01:18:25.456)
Right.

Bill (01:18:25.514)
We have guests, so everyone knows we have guests on for the next two weeks. We have Nicholas, take a look at Instagram. You'll be able to see a little bit about him. And then we have our friend Mara the week after that. And then the week after that, it's our Mexican episode. We don't have, right? So, but yeah, we still gotta get to Megan's questions. I have a bunch of those on here too. We got.

Mike (01:18:42.316)
It is. Oh, thank Christ, man. I fucking need it.

Mike (01:18:51.9)
No, that's cool. Yeah. Oh, speaking of people that listen to this show, I almost forgot. Cause my head is in a bubble right now, but, um, Cameron's been listening to the show. Um, he was very grateful that we, uh, we mentioned the other day and apparently he rides around in the car with his daughters listening to the show, which I don't know if that's the best idea in the world, but, uh, but anyway, um, I've been in their lives, you know.

Bill (01:19:14.422)
Hahaha

Mike (01:19:21.808)
few years now and so I wanted to say because they listened and they were very excited to find it. They've been listening. They didn't realize it was me. He's been like, he's been, he listens to the show and they're like, wait, that's GP. That's, you know, what the grandkids call me. And yes, so I have to say a very special hello to Rainin and Ollie. Hi there. You're listening to us on the radio. How you doing girls? Okay. I'm done.

Bill (01:19:29.602)
Ha ha!

Bill (01:19:50.698)
No, that's cool. That's cool. Like you said, maybe not the best thing in the world.

Mike (01:19:52.892)
Yes. Well, I know. Well, you know, not my job to judge.

Bill (01:19:58.154)
Right, yeah, well, at least for the next maybe minutes, we won't say the F word, but young ladies, close your ears for this last portion though, so. All right, I think we're done, so it's your turn.

Mike (01:20:04.048)
Mmm

Mike (01:20:08.661)
Exactly.

Mike (01:20:14.432)
It is my turn. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of sober, not mature, it's always be kind to each other. Be good to each other. Be grateful for what you have. Do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody about it. And now it is that time kids. It's a time you've been waiting for. And more importantly, the time I've been waiting for it is time for you to fuck off.

Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (01:20:57.122)
All right. And you know what? I think that's funny. I mute now when you do that because I literally laughed out loud when you said, yeah, the time I've been waiting for. But yeah, I mute now on purpose because again, give you a nice clean out on that. And you don't need me interrupting you at that point. I interrupt you enough throughout this fucking thing. So yeah, we're still pretty good at that. I mean, we don't talk over each other too much. But

Mike (01:21:04.676)
I'm sorry.

Mike (01:21:17.628)
Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Bill (01:21:24.294)
Yeah, I don't know. It still happens every once in a while. But anyhow, you know what? I think we did some good work here tonight. What do you... Yeah. Again, I can't get this fucking lion shit out of my mouth. Yeah, we did some good work here tonight. We did not. All right. All right, man. I love you and I will talk to you soon. All right. Bye.

Mike (01:21:32.676)
We did something. Heheheheheheheheh.

Mike (01:21:42.339)
I'm gonna go lay on the couch.

Mike (01:21:47.321)
Love you too. Bye.