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Dec. 2, 2023
SoberNotMature - Episode 93 (Nico M - No Halos, But A Couple Of Horns)
This week we have Nico Morales @nohalonm
Nico joins us from New Mexico and took the time to walk us through all of the things that brought him down.
He started using at 14 and gave up family and everything else that meant something to him.
Then he found a solution. He doesn't follow the same path as we do, but we are all headed in the same direction and we talked about the similarities, rather than the differences.
Today, he is an entrepreneur, a coach, a speaker and as he put it, he has found joy and peace.
Check him out on Instagram @nohalonm, visit his website www.NoHaloNM.com and as always...
Enjoy the episode.
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Transcript
Bill (00:02.925)
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature. And yes, for all you guys out there, they were sick and fucking tired of hearing just Mike and I, we actually have a guest. And first of all, Nico, I'll let you introduce yourself in a minute. But we had a little bit of a confusion on getting Nico booked. I think that was on our end. So I am going to apologize to everyone up front. Originally, we were going to have Nico on a couple of weeks ago, but a couple of things kind of slipped through the cracks. But.
Mike (00:16.026)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (00:32.145)
He was kind enough to reschedule with us. So, Nico, go ahead and do a brief introduction, you know, who you are, kind of where you came from, and then we'll get started, okay?
Nico (00:41.158)
Absolutely. Thanks guys. Uh, things tend to slip through the cracks for sure. And that's just the way life goes. Uh, no issues at all. Uh, well, my name is Nico Morales. Uh, let's see. I've been called a goon and I turned into a graduate. I've been called an addict and I turned into an author. Uh, I've been broke as hell and now, you know, still broke as hell.
Bill (00:48.409)
Hahaha!
Bill (01:03.637)
Hahaha!
Nico (01:05.506)
Yeah, that summarizes it. I have a history of injecting, ingesting, and inhaling many different substances. And when I heard you guys talking about it, I love the approach, I love the rawness, I love the authenticity. But technically I come from what they call a lived experience, from heroin addiction, from alcohol, over drinking, alcoholic. Man, just to give anybody a kind of a-
Bill (01:12.105)
Okay.
Nico (01:32.362)
realization of what use I was at. It was 60 cc's every two hours just to stay well. And then I was drinking about two bottles every day. Made it without any type of interaction with the jail, avoided jail, avoided rehab, but I didn't avoid the hospital. I've been hospitalized a couple of different times and ultimately all of the choices that I made cost me both of my hips. So we'll probably dig into that later on in the conversation. But that gives you a general idea of who's talking.
Mike (01:38.97)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:58.651)
Okay.
Bill (02:02.581)
Perfect. Yeah, you've, I think we call that a little bit of qualification, right, Mike? But yeah, and as we were starting off and right before we hit record, the whole idea of shitting on a chair came up and Mike's like, yeah, we need to start recording. So maybe we'll dip into that a little bit later too. But Mike, go ahead and explain a little bit about what our, again, loose format is, right?
Mike (02:02.999)
Nice.
Mike (02:08.928)
Exactly.
Mike (02:16.87)
Hehehehehe
Mike (02:26.714)
Right. Exactly. Well, I mean, you know, we, um, we all know how to get fucked up. We all know how to fuck up our lives and, and fuck up the lives of everybody around us. Um, what we're interested in is the solution, you know, how you got sober and how you stay sober. That's, that's about it, man. Other than that, we just talk. This is a conversation, man, between three guys who've been through it.
Bill (02:50.513)
Exactly. So yeah, go ahead, Nico. You know what? I'm going to put that down as one of my yet's because I haven't done that yet. It's a yet though. Yeah, I pissed in a drawer. We talked about that on one episode. Somebody else's bed. I don't think so. Have you, Mike?
Nico (02:52.722)
Yeah, three guys who have shed on someone's chair.
Mike (02:56.195)
Heheheheheheh
Mike (03:01.75)
Right. I pissed in closets. Does that count? We have.
Nico (03:03.001)
I'm sorry.
Nico (03:08.322)
Nice. You pissed anybody else's bed yet?
Mike (03:13.358)
Somebody else's. Hmm, no, I think just my own.
Bill (03:17.905)
Yeah, so real quick here on the whole pissing in the closet. Mike, tell him whose closet you pissed in or whose closet it was. I know, but whose closet was it before you?
Mike (03:24.346)
Well, it's my closet. Hehehehehehe.
Nico (03:26.382)
Hehehehe
Mike (03:29.174)
What? Oh, what? John Stamos? Yeah. So I lived in Hollywood and, uh, yes, the apartment that I lived in, one of the apartments I lived in down there, uh, was, uh, the, the former resident of that apartment was John Stamos. So yeah, big deal.
Bill (03:31.397)
Yeah!
Nico (03:33.25)
Yeah.
Nico (03:47.638)
Ah, the set of...
Bill (03:48.115)
It just cracked me up. It just cracked me up, that's all.
Nico (03:51.37)
Yeah, no, absolutely. That's great. I mean, one of my buddies here in town, he's a chef and he comes from Hollywood. He opened up a little, uh, put, what is it? Peruvian restaurant here, but he has all kinds of stories of how he used to get party at all these places. So it makes sense. You know, they're humans too.
Mike (04:05.366)
Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're just people in the neighborhood. Who are the people in your neighborhood?
Bill (04:07.821)
Right? Right. Yeah, but go ahead, Nico. So give us a little bit of background, as Mike said, and then we'll hop into the solution of what you're doing now. And if there's, we always tell people to, if there's anything you want to promote, a website you're coaching, any of the programs you're working on, feel free. We don't mind if somebody hoarsed themself out on here. We're more than happy to not only allow that, but we encourage it. How's that?
Nico (04:10.546)
Yeah.
Mike (04:34.894)
We do.
Nico (04:35.478)
Awesome. Sounds like central over here where I'm at. Um, sorry, I'll make it some references that you guys would only know, uh, if you lived in New Mexico from Albuquerque, New Mexico, born and raised the Duke city. Um, no, we're not just known for breaking bad, but yes, there's a lot of meth that comes around. Um, let's see. I grew up in a pretty decent home. Uh, physically I should say emotionally wasn't the ideal, but you know, we all have shit that we have to deal with. Why?
Bill (04:39.668)
Hahaha
Mike (04:39.97)
Hehehehehe
Bill (04:50.697)
Hahaha!
Mike (04:53.081)
Right?
Mike (05:05.018)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (05:05.026)
and we deal with it in different ways. But no, both two parent household, it's weird how my parents got together. My dad was a lowrider drug dealer and my mom was an angel, a saint, never touched a drug in her life. And they made me and my younger sister. So I think I got the more of my dad's edge than anything else. And I turned to substances when I was about 14 years old. After...
repressed memories of childhood adversities, as they like to call them. Now, unfortunately, I had some messed up stuff happen to me as a kid, like we all do. And our brains are so cool that it protects us for a little bit of time. And then something happens and all these memories come flooding back to you. That's something that happened to me was I caught this scent and it reminded me of something that happened to me when I was a kid. That was terrible.
I was like, oh shoot, that's not just a dream. That's actually what happened to me. And then I got some cannabis. One of the buddies that I was hanging around, he passed me a blunt one day. I had no idea what I was doing, but I was 14 year old punk that thought, gotta hang out with all these people, so why not take a puff and try not to cough? And I realized at that point, I should say this, I thought at that point.
Mike (06:06.081)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (06:22.677)
Ha ha ha!
Nico (06:29.162)
Oh, this is what everybody else feels like on a day-to-day basis. They don't feel like crap all the time. Um, and that's what got me hooked on substances. Also had an entrepreneurial spirit. Um, so ever since I was like 10, I've been working. Um, that's pretty common for, um, my background too. I'm full-blooded Mexican. So, uh, yeah, we grew up working. I think my dad used to tell me I only had you so that you could do chores for me.
Mike (06:32.575)
Hmm
Mike (06:49.866)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (06:56.495)
Hahaha!
Mike (06:57.454)
Nice.
Nico (06:58.366)
Yeah, I say all that because I learned how to turn $3 into $10 by selling loose cigarettes and then selling cannabis and then selling cocaine and then selling pills and then selling heroin and then doing a bunch of other stupid stuff that comes along with that lifestyle eventually. Let's see about 14 to 17. I was a decent troublemaker.
enough trouble to cause a problem. Teachers would throw chairs at me, cuss me out, but not enough to be put in jail or anything like that. I got asked to leave school, the school that I was attending. They tried sending me to a charter school, but because the charter school didn't have sports, I was like, yeah, I'm not going over there. One of the main things that really kept me disciplined was wrestling. I grew up wrestling. You guys play any sports when you were growing up?
Mike (07:36.866)
Right?
Bill (07:54.117)
I did. I ran track and, go ahead, Mike.
Mike (07:56.414)
I did not, no, I, I did music. So yeah, you know, but same thing, discipline that helped keep me in school and, you know, sucked in all the regular classes, but the, the stuff that I liked, I excelled in, and it kept my grain point average up enough to keep me in the school.
Nico (08:02.158)
Thanks.
Bill (08:15.557)
Yeah, that was kind of my thing. I played sports and ran track and played soccer up until senior year. And when track season came around senior year, I was drinking with buddies and shit like that. At that point, I played soccer in the fall, but drinking was a little bit more important by the time track season came along.
Nico (08:15.822)
Exactly.
Nico (08:33.99)
Gotcha. Yeah, so mine was wrestling, similar story to everything that you guys just described. That was the only reason why I attended school, why I went to school, was just so I could wrestle. But I got a pretty decent at it, and they gave me a full-ride scholarship to this school in Northern Colorado. And by my senior year, I thought I had figured out life. I was just a knucklehead. We got a new wrestling coach, and me and him got into it pretty heavy on a constant basis. So I quit wrestling.
threw away the full-ride wrestling scholarship, and I just decided to be a full-blown street entrepreneur. So I'd work construction, I'd do call center work, then I'd take whatever money I made and I'd turn it into a couple more bucks. Unfortunately though, I broke the rules of that game because there are rules to every lifestyle that you choose to live. And one of those rules was don't get high on your own supply. You guys ever heard that?
Mike (09:11.683)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (09:33.351)
Once or twice. Yup.
Bill (09:34.235)
Yeah.
Nico (09:34.802)
Yeah, yeah. I broke that one once or twice. About this time though is when OxyContin hit the market. So this is early 2000s. And I grew up in what I call the pill generation, where they just have pills for everything and pills are okay. And you know, you got a pill, then how bad can it be? It's only manufactured by the biggest drug dealers in the nation. So why would you be harmed by it?
Mike (09:51.61)
Sure.
Bill (09:58.397)
Ha ha!
Mike (09:58.55)
Right.
Nico (10:04.075)
I had this lady.
Mike (10:04.982)
Elvis wasn't a drug addict, he just had a really good doctor.
Nico (10:07.946)
Yeah, absolutely. Comes off of a medical notepad, so it can't be bad for you. What I liked about pills though, was that I didn't have to deal with the normal avenues of getting drugs as I used to. So it opened up suppliers for me. And one of the ladies that I used to purchase from, she was an old fan of crack cocaine. And so what I would do is I'd buy a ounce of
Bill (10:11.299)
Right?
Nico (10:34.926)
cocaine for my guy and I take it to her and I'd sell her the ounce for all of her oxy cottons. So we kind of do bartering that way. Good old bartering. Take money out of it. Give her cocaine for her oxys and I get 120 oxy 80s. I'd keep 20 of them and I'd sell the hundred and those 20 would be used up within a matter of two or three days. And then I just figured find someone else who had some more oxys.
Bill (10:46.292)
Hehehe
Nico (11:02.506)
So actually what got me really by the boo boo, grabbed me by the balls and put me in my, in my egotistical way, it put me down. It said, you really ain't Jack. Here we go. Then they changed the way that those pills were made so that you couldn't snort them, you couldn't smoke them, you couldn't like take the skin off of them.
I turned to heroin after that. And by this time I was just full blown junkie addict. I was doing everything that I could to get high and probably a little bit more. The only thing I didn't really do is actually prostitute myself. So it's nice that you guys will let me do that here on your show for sure.
Mike (11:39.918)
Hahaha right!
Bill (11:42.815)
Hopefully in a more positive way.
Nico (11:42.85)
take that off my yet list. Yeah, for sure. Way better, John's.
Mike (11:45.827)
Right.
Bill (11:50.257)
Right.
Mike (11:50.306)
Yeah, right. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, I Jesus man, you know, if I could have brought myself to suck a dick, I'd be dead because yeah.
Bill (11:57.429)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Nico (12:01.279)
I'm glad you had some sort of morals, Mike.
Mike (12:03.226)
Yeah, well, I just, um, you know, I, for whatever reason I was born in this way and that's not the way I, yeah, but if I could have trust me, I'd be dead because I, you know, I used women the way I should have used men and yeah, and, um, but they're it's tougher, you know, men are a lot easier to take advantage of.
Bill (12:11.657)
Hehehehe
Nico (12:24.96)
Yeah.
Bill (12:24.986)
hahahaha yeah
Nico (12:28.626)
Absolutely. So by the time I was 22, I was sleeping in my truck, mainly because everybody around me didn't want to be around me. I like how you described that at the beginning, Bill. We know how to mess up our families. We know how to mess up ourselves. But yeah, I was at the point where I had a decent home. My parents had split at this time, so my mom was still willing to help me out, but she was like, you can't use drugs.
Mike (12:40.046)
Right.
Nico (12:55.234)
Quick story on that, I was staying at my mom's house for a little bit of time before she asked me to leave. And at that time I was smoking heroin. One night everybody went to bed and my mom had this ritual of coming and saying bye to me in the morning. So that night I got stupid high and I nodded off, fell asleep. The next morning I hear the door open to my bedroom and it's my mom coming in.
And I look up and I look over at her and I can only see her out of my right eye. I can't see her out of my left eye. And the look that she had on her face was absolutely horrendous. And she looks at me and she says, Nico, we gotta have a talk when I get home from work. She gives me a kiss on my top of my head. And like I said, she's an angel. She put up with a whole lot more than she should have. And she walks out of the room and I still couldn't figure out why the hell I couldn't see out of my left eye. But I'd just woken up.
Yeah, probably gonna be asked to leave. So I go to rub my head and what do you know? That foil and that heroin stuck on my forehead. Yeah, that's what she got to see. And that's when she told me, yeah, you gotta get up outta here. So I left and ended up just couch surfing, doing whatever I needed to do to continue getting high. But I remember waking up in a...
Mike (14:03.839)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (14:03.91)
Oh, ho, ho.
Nico (14:24.023)
or going to sleep in a Walmart parking lot once in my car. And real quick, sorry, I got distracted, but do you guys have 24 hour Walmarts where you're at?
Bill (14:34.535)
Oh yeah, yep.
Nico (14:36.734)
Yeah, here in New Mexico, we don't. One of the reasons why we don't, we used to, was because the Walmart parking lot is where everything went down, right? So like if somebody needed to get some quick money, they'd run in and run out with some products from Walmart and then trade that for some dope and just find people dead in the parking lot. Yeah. So here in New Mexico, or at least in Albuquerque, I'll say we don't have any 24 hour Walmarts, like they close down at nine o'clock. Yeah.
Mike (14:42.519)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Bill (14:45.077)
Ha ha ha!
Mike (15:04.334)
Hmph.
Nico (15:08.166)
I found myself sleeping though in a Walmart parking lot one night just because it was easiest place to park. I knew where people were at and semi safe. It wasn't the safest, but it was semi safe. I just remember thinking, what the hell are you doing here, bro? You got this nice house that you can go to if you just cut this drug habit out, but you're so hooked and you're hooked on something that doesn't even last any long, anytime long. Like what?
By that time I had already figured out the amount that I needed to use in order to stay well, but I wasn't even getting high. Like I was just fighting not to feel withdrawals. So I'd slam 60 cc's and then I'd go run out and I had this trick that I did. And I share this not so that you guys can do it, any listeners, but I share it just to give you an idea how far I was at. Those trucks that lay the road tar to fill cracks on the road.
I'd follow them and after they'd laid the tar, I'd just go scoop some up and bag it up and make a little fake dope sack and I'd sell that. And then I would take the cash and I'd go buy me a real dope sack. But I was doing these type of schemes just so I could stay well, not so I can get high. And I started counting the hours because I was like, man, you spend about six, seven hours to get high and then you're not even high. You're just well for a couple of hours and you have to do it against the return on this sucks.
Mike (16:09.882)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (16:10.793)
ha
Nico (16:36.039)
I come to the point where nobody wants to be around me. Even my closest buddies, they don't wanna be around me. I'm unrecognizable. Get detained for armed robbery and beat that charge, that case, that situation. I was just like, this is too much trouble. And so I decide because there is a reason for each one of us to be around.
I had done everything in my willpower to take my own life minus, I did put a gun to my head once. Yeah. But I did everything that I possibly could to take my own life and it didn't work out. Right. So I figured might as well head the other direction. Let's see what I'm actually supposed to be here for. And at 22, I stopped using heroin, cold turkey, white knuckled is what some people like to call it. For me, my journey was a spiritual one.
So I met my higher power and I started communicating with God, Jesus is my higher power. And that conversation went pretty well for a little bit. And then my egotistical self decided, you got that problem solved. I guess you can keep on doing whatever the hell you want to do. And friends started allowing me back in their presence. Family started allowing me back around. And I remember hearing this one rule from my old man. And he says,
Mike (17:47.298)
Hehehehe
Nico (17:59.102)
Nico, I'll let you be around us as long as you don't do drugs. Any type of drugs. I was not even weed, like not even weed. And I'm like, all right, let's try this abstinence life out for a little bit. Well, do you know what they don't tell you about? It's alcohol.
Mike (18:17.73)
Hehehehehehe
Bill (18:18.165)
Hahaha.
Nico (18:20.322)
So homies would go out drinking and I'd go with them. Turned out one weekend, it'd just be drinking on the weekends. And then turned into every night I was having a couple of beers. And then fast forward, every night I'm taking some shots, I'm drinking a pint. Every night drinking a bottle. So from age about 24 to 27, I was just drinking.
Mike (18:45.671)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (18:47.406)
I'm sure that you guys have experienced this, but one of the things, side effects of all this drug use when I was a heroin addict, I got down to 120 pounds. I weigh, I'm 5'11 and on average I weigh about 190, healthy. So I was down to 120 with heroin. With alcohol I got up to 260 pounds, I was a fat ass. Yeah, floated as can be. And I just remember smelling,
Mike (19:05.364)
Hehehehe, mhm.
Bill (19:05.573)
Oh, ho, ho. Ha, ha.
Mike (19:09.913)
Right?
Nico (19:16.086)
what they call a functional addict. So I always had a job. I always had some sort of way to make money. And at this time, because alcohol was legal, I got myself a job at a call center. And that's easy work for me just because I like talking, but give me some sauce in me and I could sell anything. So working for a cell phone company over the phone, slinging things was, that was heaven for me because I could make a mixed drink and bring it in as if it wasn't anything.
Mike (19:30.962)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (19:34.621)
Hahaha
Mike (19:44.57)
Sure. Right.
Nico (19:45.602)
you know? And on my break, I could just go take a smoke break and smell like cigarettes the rest of the day. So.
Bill (19:45.65)
Hahaha
Mike (19:53.432)
Hmm?
Bill (19:53.849)
Yeah, I lived on, I don't think I was fooling many people, but I lived on Hall's cough drops. And everyone was always asking, why always you always got Hall's cough drops? I'm like, ooh, sinuses, allergies, same thing. I was in always doing phone work or stuff like that. I'm like on the phone, I get sinuses, just got to keep my voice clear. You know what, I've been sober for 13 and a half years and I don't think I've ever had a cough drop in that timeframe. And I've had some colds too, and I got COVID a couple of times.
Mike (20:19.394)
Hehehehehehe
Bill (20:24.378)
And I've done the same type of work. I talk all the time. I talk on here. You know, I still have sinus issues, but man, I haven't. I seriously, I just thought about that, Mike. I don't think I've had a cough drop since we've been sober. It's a revelation.
Nico (20:37.226)
It's crazy how things happen like that, right?
Mike (20:38.163)
Right!
Nico (20:43.418)
So one of these days I was working at the call center and I got trashed on my lunch break because it was only a 30 minute lunch break. So I'd go buy me a pint and I'd slam it real fast. Well, I didn't eat that day. I smoked a bunch of cigarettes. I didn't eat the night before and I just slammed a whole pint. My body was freaking out and I'm standing outside and it was a gated facility just because New Mexico you have a lot of gated facilities and I'm standing as far to the edge of this property as I can.
Mike (20:48.214)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (21:12.702)
smoking a cigarette and all of a sudden I just feel myself get real lightheaded and boom! I face first into the fence. Well unfortunately it was right in front of all the managers where they sat. So when I walk in I forgot I had the pint still in my back pocket and I walk into work and one of my buddies comes over and he's like, Niko they're going to come talk to you. Are you alright? I'm like let them come talk to me. And one of the managers comes and he logs me off the phone and I look at him.
Bill (21:19.561)
Hahaha
Mike (21:20.122)
Hmm
Bill (21:29.077)
Hahaha!
Nico (21:43.37)
Eyes connected, I log myself back into the phone and I just keep on taking calls. And they asked me to go ahead and take a leave from work and go figure out my life because they said you have some issues that you need to solve before you can come back to work. Which I'm very grateful for them because they didn't just boot me out, like some places should have. My family and friends, they were not happy with them because they're like, they should have fired you. Maybe you would have learned your lesson.
Mike (21:47.758)
Hehehe.
Mike (21:57.018)
Hmm.
Mike (22:13.186)
Right?
Nico (22:14.538)
But I took 60 days from work, didn't get a doctor's note, didn't go get any treatment. I told them that I went and saw a culandera. Do you guys know what that is? Culandera is like a natural healer. Yeah, it's like a medicine lady. So because it was cultural, they couldn't really question it. And that was my way out. And I come back and I have that conversation with God.
Bill (22:22.677)
Mm-mm. No.
Mike (22:23.267)
Now.
Mike (22:35.93)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (22:44.254)
And I'm like, hey, if you let me have this job back, I'll actually pay attention to you. I'll actually listen to what you tell me. And I ended up getting the job back. So I was like, oh shoot, I made this deal. I better not. Yeah. I actually got to do some work now. And I began to do the actual deep diving of self work, you know, uncovering those issues that.
Bill (22:49.083)
Ha ha ha!
Mike (22:57.333)
And I gotta live up to my part of the bargain.
Bill (22:58.953)
Ha ha!
Nico (23:13.522)
all of us face, but not all of us want to face. Those subconscious, limiting beliefs, those subconscious things that have been spoken about us, that we believe are true, but aren't actually true. And I tried going to AA, it just wasn't for me. It might've been my own mistake. I didn't know there was different types of AA meetings. I show up to this one and it was for the LGBTQ community. I have nothing against them.
Mike (23:34.758)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (23:40.662)
Uh huh. Right.
Nico (23:42.218)
whatsoever. I just don't participate in that lifestyle myself. So here in all their conversations, I was like, Oh yeah, F this mess. I'm not, I'm not going back to an AA meeting ever again. I'm not after what I just heard. And I tried some of the religious organizations, but they were too religious for me. I was like, dude, I, I remember selling you some cocaine. Your kid still hits me up for some dope. Like, what are you teaching over here?
Mike (23:45.464)
Right?
Mike (24:05.818)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (24:07.349)
Hehehehe
Nico (24:12.758)
New Mexico is a little, or I'm sorry, Albuquerque is a little big town. So everybody pretty much knows everybody. And that didn't work out for me. And then, you know, really focused on getting a life change. And one of the ways that I changed myself was
focusing on what was going through the face gates. Face gates for me guys is your eyes, your nose, your ears, your mouth, those are your face gates because that's the closest way to get to your brain, right? And I stopped listening to certain music so I was on this country kick for a little bit because I was like, that's the best music I could find. I mean, it's sad as hell, but it's better than some of the other stuff I was listening to. And as one commercial break comes on and...
Bill (24:51.689)
Hahaha
Nico (25:02.546)
I hear this guy screaming, what up, what up, what up? It's your boy ET. Thank God it's Monday. And I was like, who the hell is this rapper? I go to my phone and it's not a rapper, it's not a rap song, it's this motivational speaker. His name's Eric Thomas, ET the hip hop preacher. And he's all excited about Mondays, he's all hyped up about Mondays. I was like, who the hell is excited about a Monday?
Bill (25:12.713)
Hehehehe
Bill (25:28.457)
Hehehe
Nico (25:28.622)
That's when you have to go back to work. That's when you have to deal with everybody else. That's when your time is stolen from you. And he's talking about different principles transform your life. So I pay attention for a little bit and his knowledge is actually doable. It's applicable. So I start digging up dirt on this guy, right? I'm like, yeah, let's see who this guy is. He calls himself a preacher. I'm sure I could find you something.
Mike (25:32.634)
I don't know what that means.
Nico (25:55.958)
He's got some sort of lady somewhere. He's got some sort of extra kid. He's got some sort of vice, just like all the rest of them. And I couldn't find no dirt on this man. All I keep on finding is how much he's transformed his life and his whole story. And I was like, shoot, I've been asking for somebody to have as a role model and now I got one. Now I got to follow through on listening to this guy.
Mike (25:59.414)
Alright.
Mike (26:18.074)
Alright.
Bill (26:21.861)
Hahaha
Mike (26:22.786)
Huh?
Nico (26:27.08)
and I take some of his principles and I start applying them and they work. I'm like, oh shit.
Mike (26:31.234)
Hmm? Heh heh heh. Sounds familiar. Making someone else's principles, applying them to your life, and your life gets better. What the fuck?
Bill (26:34.283)
Right? Yeah.
Nico (26:34.826)
Yeah!
Bill (26:39.859)
Hahaha!
Nico (26:40.17)
It's wild, right? It's like other people have been through this stuff other than us.
Mike (26:41.838)
Hehehehehehe
Mm-hmm.
Nico (26:46.718)
And he didn't have any type of substance use. He wasn't alcoholic, anything like that. But he had made some decisions where he ended up homeless. And he talks about how he went from a homeless high school dropout to a PhD doctor, and I was like, all right, that's a significant transformation that I could pay attention to. That's something that I can really latch onto. And, you know, he is a mentality that
for me worked out. I had a coach that used to yell at me. So having this guy yell at me made sense. And I continued to apply principles week after week, week after week. And then I found a podcast that he had and I started listening to that podcast and there was more knowledge being shared. And he was just adding so much value to my own life that if I ignored it, I was really an idiot. You know, I was an idiot before, but like to hear someone give you the answers and then not apply them.
Bill (27:19.105)
Ha ha!
Mike (27:42.678)
Right. Absolutely.
Bill (27:43.497)
Hehehehehehe
Nico (27:45.038)
specialist type of stupid right there.
Bill (27:46.717)
Hehehe.
Nico (27:49.918)
And I ended up stopping drinking, applying these methods that he talked about. I ended up going back to school and getting a degree for free, applying these same type of methods. Using what you have available to you was one of the first ones. What do you have tangible right around you that you can do? Not what's a fairy tale, what's fantasy, but what do you have right now that you can take action on because you need to control what your controllables are.
Mike (27:57.554)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (28:18.862)
And that's a principle that I still live by today. If it's not within my control, it's not within my own thoughts, my own emotions, my own actions, then I don't care personally. I can't control it, so let's keep it moving.
Mike (28:21.198)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (28:30.714)
All right.
Nico (28:34.07)
that I found my path out. That was my way that I found into this sober journey, this recovery that people like to call it. I stay away from that personally, just because you say sober to some people and they look at you all weird. I'm like, well, let me see your trash can and I'll tell you exactly what your addiction is. Let me see your web browser. I'll tell you what kind of addiction you got.
Bill (28:50.505)
haha
Mike (28:50.894)
Alright.
Bill (28:55.466)
Hehehe
Mike (28:58.348)
Right?
Nico (28:59.41)
And so I choose to identify if we're going down that route as a person who does personal development. Each and every day I wake up and I try to figure out a way to do better today than I did yesterday. And since then, I've been able to change my life. The last kind of big hurdle that I had to do was deal with these hip replacements. I got both my hips replaced when I was 30 years old, 31 years old.
Mike (29:06.33)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (29:11.191)
Right.
Nico (29:25.91)
Cause at 28, I was diagnosed with the avascular necrosis. You guys know that timeframe where you're like, yes, I'm out of the weeds. I'm good to go. I made it. And then life just kind of chin checks you, throws a right hook, a body shot and says, hey, what's up? I'm still here. Well, mine was a disease called vascular necrosis. Collapsed both my hips. So I walked around like a penguin for like three years. And I did that whole self flow thing. This is my punishment. This is what I get for.
Mike (29:34.858)
Right?
Bill (29:36.286)
Hehehe
Mike (29:42.906)
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Bill (29:42.967)
Right.
Nico (29:56.086)
being a complete douche for so many years of my own life. And my sister tells me that her and her husband are expecting. And I was like, well, I had some pretty cool uncles growing up. I can't be no dumb, dumb uncle. I can't be no lame uncle. So I better get my stuff checked out. And they tell me, yeah, your hips are so jacked. They're already dead. They're about to fall apart. We can't even believe that you're walking, especially weighing 200 pounds, 260 pounds.
Mike (29:56.558)
Hmm.
Nico (30:26.754)
you're an anomaly. I'm like, yeah, I've been told that my whole life. So what do we do to fix it? And they said, you got to replace them. So I got my hips replaced and took some fentanyl because that's was their prescription, a narcotic for me during surgery. They gave me oxys after my surgery. And I'm proud to say that I didn't, I used those according to the medical practitioner's advice. I cut it off before then. I didn't have any type of relapse, didn't go back to drinking.
Bill (30:29.749)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Mike (30:30.534)
Right.
Mike (30:41.196)
Is it?
Bill (30:51.327)
Nice.
Nico (30:57.086)
It wasn't easy by any means, but that was the test that I had to face because we all faced those tests. When you're trying to do something good, life is gonna test you and check you and say, hey, you really about that life? Are you really about changing? Because when I wanted to stop smoking, guess what, I got free smoke all the time. No one ever wanted to give me free drugs, not until I said I was done. No one wanted to give me free drinks, not until I said I was done drinking. Then all of a sudden bottles were being taken to my house. See you guys, that's my...
Mike (31:04.634)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (31:12.367)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Bill (31:17.297)
hahahaha
Mike (31:22.894)
Right?
Nico (31:27.31)
That's my journey. That's how I found this thing called sobriety. I call it joy. That's how I found peace. That's how I found a way to love myself.
Mike (31:35.578)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (31:36.061)
Perfect. Well, you know what? And actually, you know, looking at the time is probably a, you just picked the perfect time. I usually say we look for a nice comfortable time to take a break. I don't think it gets more comfortable than that. So let's go ahead and take a break. What do you think, Mike?
Mike (31:50.474)
Absolutely. We'll be right back with more, right after this word from our sponsor.
Bill (32:03.225)
All right, everyone, welcome back. And Nico, I've got a couple of questions for you. And I mean, obviously thank you for sharing all that. And I guess the first question that I, unless I missed it, when was it that you were, because obviously the heroin went away on one date, and then the alcohol went away on another date. What were those, just out of curiosity, what were those dates?
Mike (32:13.101)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (32:26.354)
Yeah, so it was June of 2022. I'm sorry, June of 2012 that I stopped using heroin. And then it was about August of 2027 that I stopped drinking. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. 2017, my bad. Yeah, 17. Yeah.
Bill (32:37.641)
27.
Give me 2000. Okay.
Mike (32:43.994)
17. We just time traveled there for a second.
Bill (32:47.757)
I was gonna go, you know what? Yeah, you're the first future boy that we've had on. We've had, hey, this might be a podcast first. I'd be like, shit, man, we should have had you on earlier. But okay, so roughly as you would put it, however you wanna label yourself, and that's cool. I like the way you said that. But free of substances as of 2017, right? Cool, okay.
Mike (32:51.77)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Nico (32:52.109)
Hahaha!
Nico (32:58.881)
Hehehe
Nico (33:12.094)
Yes, sir. Yeah. 27 is my age that I stopped. So that's where that 27 popped in.
Bill (33:16.201)
Gotcha. So the other thing too, and I know, Mike, you were probably nodding your head and thinking the same thing, that this gentleman that you were speaking of sounds a lot like, although a different version over there, I heard a lot of the steps in there, right, Mike?
Mike (33:16.826)
Gotcha.
Mike (33:31.518)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Right. Sponsorship and all that. Right. You know, I mean, I'm sure, you know, we're, we're 12 step guys. We're AA guys. Um, yeah, but I mean, it's, it's the same thing. You know, the program is something that all that stuff that you went through just in a different form, you know, you had a sponsor, a role model, you know, um, you wanted what they had. And so you did what they did. That's a big one in AA.
I want what he has, I'm going to do what he does. And our lives get better for it. Um, you know, principles that, that are, that are ours, you know, these, these ideas that, um, that are definitely not the way we live our lives and the way we think they're, they're better than us. And we start applying them to our lives and start acting like we are that person. And slowly we start to become that person.
Bill (34:05.842)
Right?
Mike (34:27.722)
Same shit with AA. Same shit. You know, just a little different form, that's all.
Bill (34:32.529)
Yeah, and it was really cool because I mean, first of all, I like the fact of, well, let me step back a little bit. So we've been doing this podcast coming up on it'll be two years in February. Well, no fronts, but it is what it is. If we happen to make it to February, it'll be two years. But during that timeframe, I've listened to a lot of other sober podcasts. We've had a lot of guests, you know, some people that are, you know, friends of ours that are, you know, straight up old school AA, some people that are a mix of this, some people that are other direction.
Mike (34:47.29)
Uh huh, right.
Bill (35:00.837)
So we've heard a lot and we've learned a lot. But the main thing that seems to be the constant of that is everything that Mike just talked about. Although it's, to normal people, they probably, people probably listen to things like this in conversations and they're like, that's how I live my life all the time. I don't need any program to do it. Because people out there, there are people that live these quote unquote air quote normal lives, right? But it's just really cool to see that
Nico (35:18.783)
Yeah.
Mike (35:20.185)
Alright.
Bill (35:28.745)
You know, people need, you know, somebody to look up to, a principal, a higher power, a community. You know, I mean, you didn't do any of this alone. We can't do this alone. And I'm talking about the collective we. You know, if you would have sat in a room by yourself or Mike would have, or I would have, I mean, all of us, maybe, you know, you stay substance free or sober, you know, but you're sure as fuck not gonna be happy, you know? So it's just, it's really, I don't know, to me it's intriguing to listen to that sort of thing.
And honestly, we talk about this all the time and we joke, you know, whatever keeps somebody sober, Mike always says that if you're, as long as you're not hurting anyone, keep doing what you're doing. If you're hurting somebody, then yeah, we've got a problem with it. You know, so whatever pathway you do it, doesn't really matter, you know? And then one other quick thing that I just made a note on. So the place that you, they kind of gave you a leave of, you know, to get your shit together. I learned this kind of after the fact, because when I got, well, when I got taken,
out to when I got taken to detox and then taken out to Cleveland to the sober living facility that was in 2010 and I was working in a call center environment at the time and I was missing work and I know that they could smell it on me because I got called in and talked to about it but never got busted on it but my sister called and told them you know that I was going to detox and this and that and I think that I didn't even think I know they were fucking relieved but they didn't fire me okay
I got contacted by HR, take care of it, keep in touch with us, this and that. So I finally have a conversation with, I don't know, one of the GMs. And he tells me, he's like, well, at this timeframe. And they worded it all the right way. They never fired me. They said, basically at the timeframe, since you've been away for three months, you know, you've, you've abandoned your job, but you're eligible to reapply. You know? So they're like, but you have to come back to Wisconsin. You have to.
We apply for the job, it doesn't guarantee you. So they were just, they took the soft way to let me out. And I heard later from a place that I was working that alcoholism is considered a, you know, it's a disease. It could be considered even a disability in some books. And it's like, I don't know, it's one of those weird areas where HR and companies have to really tip toe around it. So I think sometimes they just hands off and they're like, okay, you're on leave.
Bill (37:49.257)
But then they slowly put these restrictions on and hope people just walk away. I don't know that for a fact, but that's kind of what I've read into, you know? So for what that's worth.
Nico (38:00.37)
Yeah, very similar bill on that one. Um, it freaks them out so they don't know what to do with it. They just hope that you kind of fail on your own basically. And if you don't then, Hey, we're so happy that you didn't fail and welcome back. You know,
Mike (38:09.763)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (38:14.833)
Yeah, and it's a, I mean, like Mike, for instance, a truck driver. I mean, if, and I'm sure that's right in whatever contract that you, you know, that you have, you know, or if any company that I've worked for, if they would have, um, alcohol or drug test to be on the job, they could have fired me for cause because then I had a substance in me, but they never did that, you know. Um, but if it's just like, okay, I'm going to go take care of myself. Companies are leery because, you know, it's, I don't know if it could be brought up and I'm sure there's people out there suing companies for discrimination. Like.
Nico (38:16.235)
And.
Bill (38:44.033)
I'm an alcoholic or I'm a drug addict. I have a disease and a disability and you've wronged me and now fucking pay me. Which I laugh at but I know people out there are fucking suit happy. I just know it. You know, it's ridiculous but...
Nico (38:59.771)
Absolutely.
Mike (39:00.098)
Yeah, well, thankfully we got our shit together and we don't have to live that way anymore.
Bill (39:05.07)
Yeah. And, and you know, the, the only thing that when you were talking about the whole call center thing, and again, that's what I did. And I mean, I still have worked in a call center environment for, for years. So, I mean, I get it. Only thing I never did. I just lived close enough to the last place that I worked where I could get, you know, buzzed up enough on the way to work that would carry me through the four hours till I went home, buzz myself up for lunch. And then
Nico (39:05.298)
Oh yeah. Hell yeah.
Bill (39:29.765)
enough to get me through the end of the day to go home. You know, I never actually physically had alcohol in a container in the workplace. But I had alcohol in the workplace. Just I was full of it. That's all I just I filled myself up before I went in. A lot. What's that? Yeah, I was. I was a big old human cup. Yeah, a big old human cup. And me and my cough drops and my coffee to try to cover it up and smoking cigarettes and whatever, trying to.
Mike (39:47.371)
Peace.
Nico (39:48.456)
You were the cup, Bill. You were the cup. You were the container.
Bill (39:58.629)
You know, sitting over there thinking I'm fucking fooling somebody, but, uh, yeah, I don't know. But no, I mean, seriously, that's why I was, that's why I was asking Mike about that. That, uh, you know, really everything you were talking about, um, you know, just, it, it just, it sounded step related and I thought it was very cool. And, and you're right. I mean, there are so many, uh, we both got sober in Cleveland and Mike is still in Cleveland. There's AA meetings for young people, old people, um, different backgrounds, different.
Nico (40:05.646)
or really not.
Bill (40:27.293)
different sexual backgrounds, everything. I mean, there's everything, men's meetings, women's meetings, anything you wanna find. There's God meetings, there's non-God meetings, there's everything. So they're out there, but when something works for somebody, we've heard a lot of people say that, AA wasn't for them, that's cool, you found a different path and it is what it is.
Nico (40:51.566)
Yeah. One of the things that I did take away from the time that I spent around AA people was the acts of service. I think that's one of the steps out there. And that one for me is a huge staple in my current practices and my current ways of staying sober is just being of service to someone else and not letting anybody know. I kind of get bugged by the people who are like, yeah, look at me, I'm helping this guy.
Mike (40:58.93)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike (41:10.265)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (41:14.35)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (41:21.237)
that
Mike (41:21.626)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Nico (41:21.87)
I'm like, cool, can you do that without a camera? Can you do that just to not let anybody know, but can you do it just because they're another human being and you used to be in that same damn place and you remember what it would have felt like for somebody to notice you and treat you like a human rather than a POS, you know? So that's one of the big things that I took away was like, yeah, I could be of service to other people. And the way that I describe it now in my own coaching.
Bill (41:24.649)
Yeah
Mike (41:32.184)
Right.
Mike (41:40.61)
Right?
Mike (41:48.314)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (41:51.45)
because I'm going to prostitute that out real fast. I do run a coaching business and it's for individuals who want to maintain their definition of sobriety because that's the other thing. We all have different definitions of sober. So I help individuals after they get sober, when they hit that sober lull and they're like, well, shit, why would I want to live like this? Being sober kind of sucks. I helped them through that, through that period. That's what my, one of my
Bill (41:53.884)
Feel free.
Mike (42:04.893)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (42:15.03)
Right?
Nico (42:21.442)
portions of my business is. And I say that because we either need to remove pain from someone else or we need to, and Mike don't take this too wrong, pleasure someone else in a different, in some way.
Bill (42:32.789)
Hahaha!
Mike (42:33.082)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Right. Exactly. It's a being absurd, making someone else's life better. You know, um, it's a, it's a huge part of, of yeah, of being sober, being, it takes away that need to medicate ourselves when we're helping someone else. And trust me, 13 and a half years into this, I fucking still don't understand it.
Nico (42:43.176)
Absolutely.
Mike (42:58.306)
Doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. How does me making someone else's life better, make my life better? I don't fucking know, but it does, which is really cool.
Bill (42:59.709)
Ha ha!
Bill (43:07.733)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I mean, just when you were talking about that, doing something nice for somebody and don't tell anyone about it. Does that sound familiar, Mike? Mike says it at the end, the end of every one of our episodes. And you'll hear it. He'll say that when we wrap up tonight. And it's, when you said that, all these little things you're saying, Nico, just kind of making me, number one, smile, number two, laugh, because I'm like, holy shit. You know, again, we're all on the same, we're all going in the same direction. All three of us are.
Mike (43:17.375)
Mm-hmm. That does sound.
Mike (43:22.754)
I do. I will.
Bill (43:37.617)
Mike and I are over here in this little lane, but you're over here in this other lane, but we're still all going in the same direction. You are following a different path, but in a parallel direction, if that makes any sense. And it's just, it's really cool. It's just nice to hear.
Nico (43:54.862)
Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, I think that's one of the best things about these type of, uh, communities and platforms, and I really do appreciate you guys allowing me to be on here, man. It's been a fun chat so far, but the, if you look at the format of all of these, uh, avenues, all these paths, there's some foundational things. And one of the foundational things that I notice is accountability, community, accountability and community. Like if you can find that somewhere, if the Linnistoners right now are like, well,
Mike (44:03.78)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (44:18.002)
Mm-hmm. Yup.
Nico (44:24.83)
And I tried this, I tried that and la da da. First of all, continue to try, continue to train yourself to be sober, continue to train yourself on a daily basis to find the path. Stay as committed to that as you are committed to getting effed up and you'll do pretty all right. But look for two things in all seriousness, look for accountability and look for community. Because if you can find a group that can hold you accountable, and you're vulnerable enough to
Mike (44:41.143)
Right?
Bill (44:42.106)
Right?
Mike (44:49.486)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (44:54.314)
Be accountable to them as well as be an accountability partner for someone else, as well as a community of people who are like-minded, uh, headed in the same path. May not be like what we call the, uh, non you have your non-negotiables of your own life and everybody has those, but if they don't violate your non-negotiables, then it's community. Let all the other stuff go. I, there's some things that it's not.
Not big to me when people are like, well, do you do this, Nico? Nico, you still cuss, you say you love God. I'm like, fuck yeah, what's up? I gotta reach some people too.
Mike (45:34.924)
Right.
Bill (45:34.952)
Yeah. And we get that quite a bit actually, you know, people, I don't know, the first thing and I know I said it to you when I was emailing you back and forth, I'm like, have you listened to us? I ask everyone, everyone that says, hey, I want to be on your podcast. I always, I'm like, are you sure? You know, because, and I don't mean that, I'm not trying to throw this bad ass attitude like ooh, we're whatever over here. No, we're just, we talk real. We don't.
Nico (45:50.33)
Hehehehe
Mike (45:51.034)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehe he
Bill (45:57.809)
You know, we don't take bullshit. We don't listen to bullshit. We want trueness. You know, we want just openness from people and we will swear. Now, if we go on somebody else's podcast, with what exception, Mike accidentally dropped an F-bomb, which was fucking hilarious. But we've actually, there was this one individual and I haven't approached her since, but probably six, seven months ago.
Mike (46:09.21)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Nico (46:15.054)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Mike (46:15.338)
It was.
Bill (46:22.793)
She had sent me a message about something. She's like I'd really like you guys to be on our podcast or on my podcast, but I'm just not sure so sure with you know with the language I'm like, you know, you just tell us how you want us to act you she's like get back to you She hasn't yet It and I'm like that's fine because one of our jokes but it's true We're not for everyone and we get that we understand that you know But but the whole point like you talked about, you know, the accountability in the community huge things again over on this 12 step thing but
Mike (46:37.178)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (46:37.503)
I'm gonna go.
Bill (46:51.421)
The term accountability partner, Mike and I were joking about that probably about a year ago because I had never heard that term before. And again, right before we started recording when I was talking about like these today words, I don't care what people use for them. But I told Mike, I said, well, just so you know, I'm like, you and I are actually accountability partners. I'm like, we've never called each other that, but in the dictionary,
Mike (46:57.485)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (47:10.394)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Nico (47:12.036)
Yeah
Mike (47:14.794)
No, God no. Heheheheheheh.
Nico (47:15.964)
What? Hahahaha
Bill (47:17.701)
In the dictionary, there could be, what's an accountability partner? Where there's Mike and Bill, they're doing, we would check all the boxes on the accountability partner thing, right? You know, and then you asked about, you know, if you could, cause Nico, you were asking about using specific words. There's a ton of podcasts out there and I'm hearing it more and more. I'm hearing it and seeing it articles, podcasts, everyone is saying substance abuse or substance use and that sort of thing. That's fine. I don't care what do people wanna say, but then we talked about this too.
Mike (47:25.858)
No, absolutely right.
Bill (47:45.429)
There's other individuals out there that want to eliminate the word alcoholic or drug addict or junkie or whatever it is. Mike and I identify with those things. And if we're not using these terms to insult people, I'm an alcoholic, he's an alcoholic. He's a filthy junkie. And, you know, who just, you know, this small section away is he admitted to sucking a dick. You know, and I mean, we're not.
Mike (47:58.701)
Mm-mm.
I am.
Nico (48:10.766)
I'm gonna go get a drink.
Bill (48:11.761)
We're not saying that about anyone else. I'm saying that about my friend Mike, because I've earned the right to say that. You know, but the whole point is that we like having people on here. You said thank you for having you on. Thank you for coming on really is what it comes down to, because as long as people can be open with us and have an open conversation, that's what we want this thing to be. We started off just shooting the shit. That's all that we did to begin with.
Mike (48:19.102)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehe.
Bill (48:37.865)
And we've kind of held true to that. We've added a few lighter things here and there, but that's all this is, man. It's just like Mike said in the beginning, if you guys out here just having a conversation, right?
Mike (48:49.502)
Absolutely. Right. And I love Nico. You talked about community, right? Cause I mean, you know, I'm, I'm an isolator. I'm a loner. I like being by myself. I do. Um, but I mean in the depths of my addictions, um, I, I was alone fucking alone, man. I had nobody and as much as I like to be by myself, I do not like to be alone and I'm not anymore.
You know, I am a part of a community and it's a big part of why I stay sober. Yes, I'm accountable to other people. Other people are accountable to me and it's great, but I'm not alone anymore. Even when I'm by myself, you know, and that it's, you know, the big book of AA talks about we're bodily and mentally different than our fellows is the quote from the book, right? So us alcoholics and drug addicts, we are physically and mentally different.
than normal people, our fellows, right? But we walk into, you know, we walk into an AA meeting or we have a conversation with somebody who's on a similar path, you know, and trying to get to the same place we are. We're not alone anymore, we're exactly the same. And that used to piss me off, because, you know, I'm unique and I'm special and I'm different. I'm not, man. I'm a garden variety drunk that did a whole bunch of dope. And...
Nico (50:08.34)
Yeah
Bill (50:13.225)
Hahaha
Mike (50:14.63)
I fucking find comfort in the fact that I'm not alone, I'm not different, I'm exactly the same as the two of you guys. And that's pretty fucking cool, man.
Nico (50:26.282)
Absolutely. I think the draw to that was kind of what drew us into the original path, right? For me, being around other smokers or the potheads, they said what they wanted to say. Being around other dope fiends, they said what they needed to say. Being around other alcoholics, they said what was on their fucking mind. And if you didn't like it, what's up? Let's throw some hands. I was attracted to that because it's like, thank you.
Mike (50:43.4)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (50:48.666)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (50:49.928)
Right.
Nico (50:53.314)
Thank you for being your genuine self, even if it's rough around the edges, even if people don't like it, because I can't stand that. Oh, well, you know, Sam, I'm just enjoying life and I'm well, sir. But at home, he's beating his meat to some weird ass shit and doing some weirdo things. Like, at least be a weirdo in public if you're a weirdo at home, okay?
Mike (50:57.644)
Right?
Bill (51:06.505)
Ha ha ha!
Mike (51:07.514)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (51:10.504)
Ha ha ha!
Mike (51:11.244)
Right.
Right.
Mike (51:18.358)
Yeah, right. Well, I'd like the coins we get in the program say on them to that own self be true. That's exactly it, man. You know, I've got to be true to who I really am, but I had to go through a bunch of shit and figure out exactly what I really am, you know, it turns out, you know, cause I thought, I thought I was really a drug addict. I thought I was really an alcoholic and I am those things, but I'm more than that. You know, I'm also a person that as much as I hate to admit it.
Nico (51:33.998)
Absolutely.
Mike (51:47.194)
I feel good when I do things for other people. You know, I feel good when I do the next right thing, even though I didn't think that was the way I wanted to live my life, I wanted to do the next wrong thing. I wanted to do bad things. I thought that made me feel good. And it made me more powerful and more of a man, you know, I'm breaking the rules and I'm doing things my way. No, it turns out I was an asshole. You know, what I need to do is play by the rules.
Bill (51:48.597)
hahahaha
Bill (52:12.085)
Hehehehe
Nico (52:13.919)
Thank you.
Mike (52:16.326)
try to make other people happy and for some goddamn reason, it makes my life better. I'm a happier person for it. And that's all I really wanted was to be happy, you know? And I thought I find it in a bag or a bottle, but I didn't. I found loneliness and despair and misery.
Nico (52:34.342)
Absolutely. And I love how you position that because my end, the way that we kind of talk about it is that true strength comes from a strength. Like, if you can, you know that what's gonna happen if you go drink, you know, what's gonna happen if you go use you know, what's gonna happen if you go have sex with five different women in the same night, or men, if that's how you float your boat, I don't care. But
Mike (52:35.479)
You know.
Mike (52:54.17)
Mm-hmm. Right?
Bill (52:55.951)
I'm gonna die if that happens. I don't think I can handle that. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, shit, five women, same night? Come on, do you go give us a fucking break? We make it two? Maybe? One and a half? Yeah, exactly.
Mike (53:00.544)
Yeah, we're a bit older than you.
Nico (53:03.982)
Yeah
Mike (53:09.992)
Right.
Nico (53:12.532)
I'm not in between, huh?
Nico (53:17.246)
But by restraining yourself from doing that, there's just this empowerment that you get. And that strength that no one can take from you builds up in your sternum in it, and it sits there. And you sit with the bigger posture, you walk with a more confidence because you know the easy way out is available, but you're choosing to do what's actually hard. That's the most strengthening thing that I think people miss out on.
Mike (53:21.261)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (53:38.989)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (53:44.918)
One of my buddies who also follows the AA program, he said one thing that stuck out to me early on, he said, the true measure of a man is not how many women you can get, but how many women you can reject. And I was like, dang dude, that's heavy right there, right? And take women out, put your vice in. The true measure of a man isn't how many bottles you can drink, it's how many bottles you can not drink and still deal with life. Because life is there to be felt.
Bill (53:56.883)
hahahaha
Mike (53:57.05)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Right.
Mike (54:09.306)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Nico (54:13.558)
You can't feel true joy without feeling true sadness. You can't feel true ecstasy, like actual ecstasy, not the drug, without feeling some shit. If you don't know what pain is like, what Mike was just talking about, that isolation when you said that, or my brain went into a place like, yeah, I know what you're talking about. I could feel that isolation. And that's it.
Bill (54:34.077)
Ha ha! Ha ha ha!
Mike (54:34.77)
Mm-hmm. I know you do Right cuz we're fucking exactly the same and it's pretty fucking cool
Bill (54:41.801)
You know, and you were talking about too, Nico, as far as doing the right thing when you know the hard thing is available. And we probably talked about, we repeat ourselves on here all the fucking time, but it is what it is. But I think when I was, and I remember that it was a Saturday and I got off of work and I had no place to go. My mom and my stepdad were out of town. I used to get on there on the weekends and help them around the house and just hang out with family. I was rebuilding that relationship and helping them and helping myself clearly along the way. But...
It was that day I had no place to go and I didn't know what to do with myself. I would eat lunch, this and that, went back to the sober living facility and then I just took a nap because I didn't know what to do with myself. But shortly after that, I realized that was the first time that I had the opportunity, I had a little bit of money in my pocket and I had the ability to go do whatever I wanted to, whether it was good, bad or indifferent, and I chose not to.
I didn't go, I could have went and drank that day. Again, I had the opportunity, I had no place to be, a little bit of money. I had every opportunity in the world. I had that freedom and the ability to go do it, but I didn't. And that was a cool moment, because when you get to that point, when you realize that you can now make that choice and you choose the right way, that's a pivotal point. It's kind of cool. And even to this day, we've been sober for a bit, but.
Every day that we wake up, man, we got that same fucking choice every day. You know, just decide on which path we want to take today. And so far today, you know, I've taken the whatever right path I'm on, I guess, right?
Mike (56:10.455)
Mm-hmm.
Mike (56:20.002)
Right. Well, exactly. We have that choice because for years we didn't have that choice. We had to go get that, whatever it was, you know, I did, I had to, you know, there were plenty of times I got loaded when I didn't want to, I had to. And yeah, don't I've got that freedom today and it's a beautiful thing.
Nico (56:35.438)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (56:40.033)
Right. So Nico, tell us a little bit more about, cause I know you're talking a little bit about the coaching and I know we're joking about the, you know, hoaring yourself out and stuff like that, but in all seriousness, talk, talk as little or as much as you want to talk about your coaching business. Anything that you're doing out there that you're doing either to, to help people that you can help people P how people can connect with you, anything you want to promote on here, take the time to do it. We want to be able to allow you to do that. Okay.
Nico (56:42.259)
Absolutely.
Nico (57:11.202)
Awesome Bill, I appreciate that. So I have a couple different avenues. If you are just looking for some free content, dabbling in different ideas that individuals have from the same mindset as you, check out my YouTube, that one's at nohalo.nm. Then my Instagram is at nohalo.nm, Facebook at nohalo.nm. If you do the TikTok, it's at Nico double underscore Morales. Those are all my socials.
That's the way I kind of give back. As I put up videos, I put up concepts, I put up, not theories, because I don't believe in theories, I believe in actual application. So I put up things that I have lived through and how they can be applied and translated into different ways. So that's my free community content, that's my community service content, as I like to call it, on those socials. If you are looking for a little bit more in depth.
I love how you guys were just talking about choice. I wrote a book for individuals who are thinking about making a change in their life, whether that's harm reduction change, whether that's full abstinence, whether that's just reducing the amount that you're drinking. I believe there's five things that you should know. And the first one is it's a choice. We talked about a little bit earlier that it's uncomfortable having to do some of these things. That's the second thing. And the third thing is that you are gonna get to know yourself.
Because like Mike said, getting to know who you are is a different genre than who you think you are. The other two, you can go get the book and figure those two out. But yeah, that book is on my website. My website is www.knowhalonm.com. I also run the coaching program. I love to just sit and talk with people. So even if you're not looking for that.
Mike (58:45.301)
Mm-hmm.
Nico (59:04.942)
The reason why I charge for my coaching program is because you gotta have some skin in the game. And my theory is if you could pay for drugs and alcohol, then you could pay for help too. That's why I charge. Plus you gotta have something. I've done plenty of work for free and I'll tell you that the results are way more significant when individuals had contributed out of their own pocket. But if you just are looking for somebody to chat with, somebody to build a strategy plan with, I do give out free strategy sessions. You can get those at knowhalonm.com as well.
Bill (59:11.637)
Hahaha!
Mike (59:12.442)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Nico (59:35.214)
And then if you are anybody who does event planning, if you have any type of sober events that you need speakers for, that's one of my favorite things to do is to give keynotes, speeches, and trainings. I actually have a, they certified me in some stuff that allows me to go and talk to HR. So I have this disc certification that I can provide trainings to different organizations. And that's more for professional development.
Mike (59:52.858)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Bill (59:53.022)
Hahaha
Nico (01:00:03.926)
I've learned how to translate everything that we just talked about in our own personal journeys. They translate into your professional journey too. And I have a scientific assessment, scientific backing. I got HR approvals to give credits out for some of the trainings that I do. So I also do corporate trainings and keynote speeches. Last thing that I kind of plug real fast is we're doing an event in Arizona. If there's anybody out there, it's called Amplify. It's me and a couple buddies.
And we talk about how to amplify your life. And that one, you can go to my website and there's a way to connect there. But that's the type of plugs that I have available, man. Thank you so much for that opportunity.
Bill (01:00:44.457)
No, you're fine. And yeah, we always like to have people get that out because if you know, if usually if we if we wait till right at the end, then it's really rushed and you lose. Quite honestly, we get it every once in a while. We lose some, you know, some people at certain points in the episode. But worst case scenario in the write up that I did for our upcoming guests. And I was just looking while you were talking. It does have your Instagram handle. It also has your website. So I'll put both of those again in the description I do for this episode. So if anyone's listening, pop into the description.
Mike (01:00:45.536)
Absolutely.
Bill (01:01:14.613)
You'll see his website address on there and also his Instagram handle. But yeah, we always like to get that stuff in there because just like us, people need to hear things like six, seven, eight, 20 times before they actually, you know, make things stick or allow things to stick. But here's the other thing. So the whole coaching part and this is just kind of a sideline thing. I I've looked into it. I may be doing a sideline thing. This is not about me, but I want to tell you something that I heard and something that I learned because you mentioned.
Nico (01:01:29.198)
Absolutely.
Bill (01:01:42.297)
almost explaining and you know why you're charging for it. The one little course that I took and the gentleman made a really, really good point. He said, our time is worth something and our experience is worth something. And you know, he likened it to the point where, and let's say take Mike, Mike's a truck driver. He's been doing it for a number of years. He did it prior to and now after he got sober. And it's a skill, you know, and he gets paid for that skill and he gets paid for his experience. It's the same deal.
You know, it doesn't matter what you're doing. It doesn't matter that there'll be, there's a ton of fucking people out there that poo people that, you know, are, and again, I'm saying, I'm gonna quote unquote, making money off of, you know, recovery, but people are making money and earning money based on their experience in recovery and the people that they teach and the people that they help are getting worth back, you know, and granted, the thing of it is, is that you don't have a monopoly on the sober coaching business, neither do I or anyone else out there.
If people choose to go to a coach, they could do that. People choose to just walk into a 12-step meeting or follow a free path like you did or any of the other free resources. Nobody's forcing people to pay for it. But I like the way you said that, putting some skin in the game. It is a different story. And Mike and I talk about it on a life level. When you earn something or you've paid for something, it feels better than having it just given to you.
It just is. You know, so I guess my opinion there and all I wanted to say is that, you know, my opinion is you don't have to explain why you're charging for it. I think you should, whatever you charge, you're probably worth more. And that's what I was told from this guy that I listened to, he said, he says, be careful about where you set your pricing. And he goes, be careful if you want to discount it because what you're doing is you're discounting the value of what you're giving to somebody. And I'm like, well, shit, man, that makes sense, right?
Nico (01:03:32.882)
Absolutely. I mean, think about the dollar menu at McDonald's versus Pick Your Steakhouse, right? Different forms of it. So absolutely. Absolutely.
Bill (01:03:40.259)
Right?
Mike (01:03:42.932)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:03:44.453)
Yeah, and I've had a $50 steak before, and when I first walked in, they have a $50 steak. I'm like, fuck man, what's the difference between a 50 and a $15 steak? Well, there's two things. I'm paying for the atmosphere that I'm eating in, and that's number one. I'm paying for the chef that's cooked it that knows how to cook it right. But on top of that too, when I, you know, you cut into this piece of meat or whatever it is, you're like, Jesus, this is pretty goddamn good. This is a little bit better than a local grocery store or Aldi.
Nico (01:04:12.448)
Hehehehe.
Bill (01:04:12.957)
You know, and I'm not saying that any one of those places, I'll eat that, you know, those steaks as much as any other one, but again, you're right. You're gonna get different value for that. So I don't know, I just think it bothers me when I hear people out there, you know, kind of, I don't know, again, you know, getting down on people that are earning an income or, you know, making a living in the recovery field. It's there, the reason that people are out there doing it is because there's a want and there's a need and it's fucking capitalism, you know, it is what it is.
Mike (01:04:13.826)
Huh?
Mike (01:04:43.382)
That's right. God bless America.
Bill (01:04:44.465)
Right.
Nico (01:04:44.878)
Absolutely. That's right. And go to your favorite liquor store and ask them for a free bottle. See what they say. Go to your favorite dope dealer and ask him for a free sack. See what he says.
Bill (01:04:49.045)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Yeah, yeah, walk into a dealer and tell me once some of the discounted stuff, you know, you may not, you may not wake up the next day. You know, so there's that that's actually a goddamn good example, Nico. Thank you for bringing that one up. Yeah. I heard this, I heard about this guy that used to pick up road tar and sell it. I fucking low life.
Mike (01:04:54.669)
right
Nico (01:04:59.97)
Hahaha!
Mike (01:05:00.89)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Mike (01:05:07.602)
Or you get a bag of road tar.
Nico (01:05:07.858)
Yeah. There you go. There you go.
Mike (01:05:15.395)
Great!
Nico (01:05:17.617)
Scheming off of these people.
Mike (01:05:17.974)
Well, it's, it's since been covered up by a tattoo, but I used to have this nice little dot on my arm that, uh, from some dope that was cut with shoe polish. So, you know, yeah, right. It's all there. It's still under the, under the tattoo. I remember that it's there. I remember that was shooting shoe polish.
Bill (01:05:26.834)
Ha ha!
Nico (01:05:35.894)
And you probably got high off of it too, because it's a lot of a mental game. Just to make it look good.
Mike (01:05:37.67)
Oh yeah, well it wasn't all shoe polish, it was just cut.
Bill (01:05:44.539)
But yeah, so I mean, it's, again, I think it's wonderful, you know, all the things you're doing out there and, you know, I mean, having the opportunity again to speak to corporations. And I think that that's, you know, we were talking a little bit about the workplace and I actually wrote a couple articles about it because I think that the workplace is still, I think
And I'm going to say the workplace in general, not all of them, but I think the general workplace is still of a, we don't want to see what's going on because we need people to work, just don't fuck up and don't make it known. I've worked plenty of places more so since I'm sober when I'm noticing this, but certainly when I was drinking and you know, people are, people are smoking, you know, not just cigarettes at lunch. You know, people are drinking, people are doing this and that, and it was part of what everyone did. Um, and I know it's still happening now. And.
Part of it's education, but part of it is just, you know, making this information available to people. And, you know, I hate to say it, but making people feel safe, rather than, you know, that they're gonna get punished. Because I don't know, I just think that there's, there's education that needs to happen in the workplace, just like anything else, you know? I mean, Mike and I talk about knowledge is power. And I just think these, there's so many employers out there that, you know, the last place that I worked, literally when I first started, we were in, again, a call center atmosphere.
And so, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm sober and I mean, I, I know what weed smells like though. And, you know, the couple of the, the reps who come in the morning and they come in and all of a sudden these people are walking by me. I'm like, who the fuck smells like weed in this? I'm the manager and I, you know, I'm brand fucking new. So I don't know. All these dudes are fucking dope heads. Right. And I turned to the, to the supervisor. I'm like, what the fuck? And he's like, yeah, he goes, he had Josh over there smokes and we know she does. And this and that I'm like, Craig was the owner of the company. I'm like,
Doesn't Craig ever say anything? And he's like, no, he just ignores it. I'm like, so we just ignore that they're smoking? And he's like, yeah. I'm like, oh, okay, I guess we're doing that. But, you know, I'm just like, it blew my fucking mind because I mean, once again, I give a fuck less what people do in their own time. And I know people are out there struggling and all that stuff, but at least, I mean, try to cover up a little bit, or somebody comes in smelling like, you know, fucking Dracar. And you're like, yeah, I know what you were doing.
Bill (01:08:02.142)
But I don't know. I think it's probably a matter of knowledge. Mike, didn't you take a picture of a liquor bottle just recently? It worked.
Nico (01:08:03.766)
Yeah.
Mike (01:08:10.662)
Hey, yeah, I was at the, at the rail yard. Yeah. And, uh, got out, I was dropping a trailer and, uh, yeah, there was a little, uh, little airplane bottle of Jack Daniel's crushed on the ground. So somebody was tuning up at work. Made me feel good that I'm driving next to those assholes, but I was one of those assholes once, so what am I going to do?
Nico (01:08:12.302)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Bill (01:08:30.517)
Hahaha!
Nico (01:08:33.118)
Hey man, that's how I look at it too, Mike. And I, when I'm, cause my mind still goes into that place that you were talking about, Bill, like, will we just ignore it? It's like, yeah, somebody ignored it for you too.
Mike (01:08:42.754)
Yeah. Right. And we've got to remember that, you know, I mean, some of these people, they're productive and they, you know, they take care of their kids and they pay their bills. And so they smoke a little weed or they drink a little drink or whatever. You know? Um, I mean, you know, there, there are normal people out there that, you know, they'll do some cocaine and every couple of months, you know, at a party on a Saturday night and have fun. And.
Bill (01:08:58.)
Great.
Mike (01:09:09.538)
They could do that. There are people, I know it's weird, it's strange to us, but there are people out there that could do that sort of thing. You know, there are people out there that will take a Vicodin once a month to feel the Vicodin once a month. I don't fucking understand it, but it happens.
Bill (01:09:25.933)
Right? Well, I mean, how many TV shows and movies do you watch when people go out to, you know, the middle of the desert to trip out on mushrooms and they do that just for enjoyment, you know, like a getaway? And I'm like, that's kind of fucked up. I'd end up dying out there because I wouldn't want to come back. I'd be like, how many mushrooms can I, you know, can I fucking munch on here? And then where's the booze and where's everything else? And I would just, I would be fucking dead in the desert, you know?
Nico (01:09:27.51)
Yeah.
Mike (01:09:34.56)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mike (01:09:46.01)
Hehehehehehe
Mike (01:09:51.082)
I know. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm going to fucking Mexico in a couple of weeks, man, less than two weeks. Right. And I'm going to an all-inclusive and there's booze everywhere. And hell, last year when I was down there, I walked out of my room and there was a big bag of weed laying right in front of my door. You know, I'm like, well, look at that. Somebody dropped their weed. I mean, people are partying because they're on vacation. And then when the week's over with, they go home and take care of their shit and don't do it again for a year. I again don't understand it, but it happens.
Bill (01:10:02.805)
Oh yeah!
Bill (01:10:19.133)
Hahaha
Mike (01:10:20.362)
So, you know, we can't, we can't look down on people because they're doing something that we can't do.
Bill (01:10:25.777)
Right, yeah, no, I know, and I get that.
Nico (01:10:27.154)
Yeah. And they can't look down on us because we did something that they couldn't do either. And that survived that whole fucking mess, right?
Bill (01:10:32.121)
Right, right. But you know, and I'm sure, I'm sure, Nico, I'm sure you're seeing the same thing that, I mean, the, you know, and people joke about it or people put it on, you know, social media now, you know, Sober's the New Cool and this and that. There's all these, all these fucking things out there about that. But I mean, you know, part of it's kind of corny, but part of it's true. I mean, there's, there's always been celebrities, there's always been a little bit of media stuff, but there's a lot of sober shit going on out there now. And it is, you know, there's people out there that are just choosing.
Mike (01:10:32.99)
Yeah, damn right.
Bill (01:11:01.069)
not to have alcohol in their lives. They don't have a problem with it. You know, these fucking weirdos just figure that they don't want to drink or do drugs anymore. And I'm like, yeah, okay. You know, it's there's a lot of that. I'm sure you see that with people out there. Right, Nico?
Nico (01:11:15.954)
Oh yeah, absolutely. It's more of a conscious decision for them to live as healthy as possible, right? And that's like, Mike was saying, that's weird to me. I'm like, oh, you don't do it because you choose not to, not like it's cause it's gonna kill you? And they're like, nah, just not my thing. I'm like, oh, okay. I choose to do it cause I like my life. And I know if I do it, I won't have life.
Mike (01:11:24.104)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehe.
Mike (01:11:28.364)
Yup.
Bill (01:11:30.537)
Hahaha
Mike (01:11:41.263)
Right. Exactly. Yeah. We do it because we can't. So, and we do want to have a life and we want to have a decent life, you know, cause it comes down to selfishness. We're still fucking selfish and self centered. You know, we just, we just flipped the script on it and went, yeah, fuck. I think I want to be alive and I want to be happy. Fuck.
Nico (01:12:02.174)
Yeah. It means that we get to be self-centered longer. Come on. Like, it's really all about us still.
Mike (01:12:05.131)
Right! Hahaha!
Bill (01:12:08.857)
Yeah, oh, exactly. It's just, hopefully in most cases, I'll say, not all my cases, I'll speak for myself, but in most cases, we're doing all this stuff for all the right reasons, but yeah, there's still some selfishness in there, but that's not a bad thing. Taking that evilness that we had and turning it into a, like Mike said, flipping the script. But on top of that, and we talk about it all the time, Mike probably more than I do, but.
Mike (01:12:10.17)
Mm-hmm. It is.
Nico (01:12:26.932)
Absolutely.
Bill (01:12:35.189)
taking all of this, exactly what you're doing now from what it sounds like with your coaching, your speaking and all those sort of things in the books you wrote, Niko, is that all this garbage, all this turmoil, all this stuff we went through to get to where we are now, it now has value and now has worth. And we can actually use that to help other people, which is, who knows? Who knows who's listening? And same thing, who's listening? I don't know who listens to this anymore. We see numbers, but.
Who does it hit? Who does it make sense to? If what we say makes sense to one person on every episode, that's a win. And that's all that matters. And we never know. So somewhere through the fuck yous and the fuck this is and the dick jokes and everything else, hopefully somebody picks out the positives, right?
Nico (01:13:12.85)
Absolutely.
Nico (01:13:25.894)
Absolutely. And what you said there, Bill, is so important because if one person just gets to change their perspective, make a different choice based off something that we said here, something that we say later, something that we said before, that's really what it's about. Like you said, there's all these other layers, but being able to just help one person, that's so amazing.
Mike (01:13:40.227)
Mm-hmm.
Bill (01:13:45.757)
Oh, it's, yeah, it's cool. That's cool. But so what else, Nico? Anything else that you either want to add, let people know, talk about, I shudder sometimes to say advice because I don't necessarily look at anything that any of us do as being advice, but any other words that you wanna get out there to anyone who might be listening as we wrap up here.
Mike (01:13:47.5)
Right.
Nico (01:14:10.59)
I think, you know, I got a catchphrase that I've kind of been formulating a backstory on it just real fast. When I started helping people, it was just like aunts and tias and grandmas and moms calling me to talk to their sons or to their nephews, to their husbands. And they would always end up by saying, Nico, you're such an angel for helping us out. And I'm like, hell no. I'm no angel whatsoever. This is a, this is a messed up human being. And so that's why I named my company, Know Halo and.
Bill (01:14:31.381)
Ha ha!
Nico (01:14:40.162)
The idea behind No Halo is that you weren't created to be this perfect little angel. You were created to do better today. That's what I leave anybody listening with. Do better today than you did yesterday. That's the only goal.
Mike (01:14:50.946)
Yep, that's it. Be a better person today than you were yesterday. Yep.
Bill (01:14:51.433)
Perfect.
Yeah, exactly. Well, cool. Well, Nico, it's time for you and I to quiet down here for a minute. Mike is going to lead us out of here. And hopefully, well, I don't know if you've heard this before, you're going to hear it again. So Mike.
Mike (01:15:09.586)
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. Thank you, Nico, for joining us and sharing your experience, strength and hope with us. It was really cool. Great conversation. And as always got do something nice for somebody this week, do something good for your community and don't tell anybody about it. And now it is time. It is that time kids. It is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.
Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever.
Bill (01:15:48.637)
And Mike decided that was his favorite part of the episode. It's been mine for a long time because it makes me laugh. But Mike decided that's his favorite part of the episode now because he knows we're done. But seriously, Nico, I mean, I can't tell you enough. We appreciate it. Just as a reminder, Nico's contact information, his website and his Instagram handle are in the description for the website. So please.
Mike (01:16:00.25)
We are done.
Nico (01:16:01.873)
That's awesome. That's awesome, Mike.
Bill (01:16:14.165)
Take a look, connect with him, hop on his website, get in touch with him. Obviously anything he can help out with, I'm sure he'd be more than happy to. So again, Nico, thank you. Thank you very much for coming on. We appreciate it.
Nico (01:16:27.955)
Thanks for having me guys. It's been a pleasure talking to you
Bill (01:16:28.677)
Not a problem. And Mike, of course, I love you brother and I will talk to you soon. All right, bye.
Mike (01:16:33.242)
I love you too. All right.
Nico (01:16:39.37)
Later.
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