SoberNotMature - Episode 95 (Crazy Musings From Mexico)

Bill (00:02.126)
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And Mike is in Mexico, so I have, hang on, Mike, I have a little bit of a treat for you. Are you ready?

Mike (00:11.541)
Hola!

Mike (00:15.475)
Alright.

Bill (00:17.526)
Go ahead. Ready? Here. Muy bien. Todos bienvenidos una vez más a otro episodio de sobrio no maduro. Did you hear that? Ha ha ha. That was my opening in Spanish. Ha ha ha. I'm like, wait, I don't know. I thought about it a couple of days ago and I'm like, wouldn't that be kind of fun if I could do something in Spanish? I'm like, I'm not gonna try to learn the fucking language but I'm like, ooh, Google Translate. Ha ha ha. So.

Mike (00:18.862)
Yeah.

Mike (00:25.137)
Groovy. Yeah!

Mike (00:30.609)
Cool! Heheheheheheh!

Mike (00:45.473)
Right.

Bill (00:47.118)
You could actually just talk right into a little box and then hit the play button. I'm like, yeah, that was our opening in Spanish. So anyhow, back to the real stuff. Yeah, so you're in Mexico, not in Cleveland. So do tell. How's fucking Mexico?

Mike (00:54.681)
Hehe

Mike (01:00.157)
I am. Um, you know, it's beautiful as always. Uh, it was a little, uh, cloudy today and a little rainy today, but you know, still better than Cleveland.

Bill (01:11.914)
Right, so you gotta tell us the temperature though. I mean, that makes it even better.

Mike (01:15.481)
Well, let's find out. Let's see here. It is, right now, it is, ah, it's a little chilly. I'm gonna have to put on a sweater at 73 degrees.

Bill (01:27.929)
Yeah, you don't want to catch a cold. Don't want to get a draft.

Mike (01:30.265)
Nope. It was about 85 earlier today though, so you know.

Bill (01:38.346)
Right. But no, I mean that you guys have, how many years have you gone there? It's been at least a handful, if not more, right?

Mike (01:42.77)
is right yeah this is our sixth trip down here yep

Bill (01:46.282)
Oh it is, okay, cool. Yeah, but I remember last year when you went, cause you went down on a Wednesday last year and I think the day you got down there, we hopped on here to test out for like five or 10 minutes just to make sure things worked. And cause again, you never know, you know what I mean? I don't, I mean, it's the fucking internet, but you know, I don't know if the fucking Mexicans are down there like, you know, some federales are listening to like, yeah, we're not gonna let him broadcast this shit down here.

Mike (01:56.813)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (02:04.933)
Hehe

Mike (02:11.117)
We can't have this. No, no, no. You're Americanos. Hey, gringos, get the fuck off.

Bill (02:17.102)
Yeah, in the middle of our recording, all of a sudden you're gone. You're like, hello? Hello, Mike? Hello? Okay, well, whatever, man. Right. All right. So obviously it's just us this week. Again, Mike and Chris are in Mexico. So we got a lot of shit to talk about, I guess, for the last couple of weeks. I've got a couple of pages worth of stuff.

Mike (02:24.377)
The cartel got him. All right, off you went.

Mike (02:32.589)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (02:41.546)
So we decided we're not doing the 12 step we're gonna do next week, correct? So we don't have to worry about that right now. But I know you've got your books with you, so you wanna get, let's get this fucking reading out of the way, goddamn, ugh.

Mike (02:46.617)
Yeah. Yep.

I do.

Mike (02:56.329)
Well, you know what? Today's was pretty goddamn good. And I know you posted it because I saw it earlier laying on the beach. That's right. Hate me. But, you know, I read it this morning and I was all, because, you know, I read these things every morning. And I went, ah, this is a pretty damn good one. Although I didn't look up who the hell wrote the quote. So we're just going to have to wing it.

Bill (03:06.935)
Hahaha

Mike (03:24.101)
That, uh, this was today, wasn't it? Wait a minute. What is today? I'm on vacation, man. Um, now December 15th, right? That's today. Right. Hello. Are you there?

Bill (03:36.174)
that is today, all damn day, even in Mexico, even, yeah, even, yeah. I usually mute when you're doing this to let you, to let you do it. So I'm just worried about that. But yes, it is the, it's the 15th here. It's the 15th in Cleveland. And I think it's the 15th in Mexico. When you get farther down there, the date didn't change yet, did it? I think it's a 15th.

Mike (03:41.129)
I know, well I haven't started yet, man. Leave me hanging.

Mike (03:51.154)
Right.

No, no, I'm not. I haven't crossed the, any of that good stuff. I haven't even crossed the equator. So I don't have to get extra earring. All right, fine. All right, here, December 15th. God damn, here we go. The farther behind I leave the past, the closer I am to forging my own character. Isabelle Eberhart. Again, didn't look it up, so you're gonna have to. How can we leave the past of our active addiction behind us?

Bill (03:57.602)
the

Bill (04:02.25)
Alright, cool. Hahaha!

Mike (04:22.905)
by walking through the door to recovery and continuing to walk into our new life. How do we do it? One step at a time, one day at a time, just for today, by doing first things first, by thinking. The path of recovery leads us to forge our own character. We may take the same steps as others in our 12-step program, but the way we do them, the things we learn, are personal for each one of us.

We each forge our own character. We each develop into the person we are meant to be. To see this in action, we just need to look at the variety of people in our meetings. Even better, we could go to a new meeting across town or across the world. Uh, we see how unique we are, even though we have a great deal as, although we share a great deal as recovering addicts. Prayer for the day.

Higher power, you made me to be someone special. Help me realize your goals for me. Today's action, says action, because this is a program of action. Today I will think about what I have learned about my own natures as I work the steps. What natural gifts do I have that can help me build my own character? I will write these out and look at the list every day for a week.

Bill (05:47.562)
Did you do that? So, you know what today I think and in fact, I don't remember I mean it was fucking 12 hours ago now but I think I posted something from the 24-hour book, which is rare and the reason it's rare from 24 hours a day is because a lot of times it's more AA based more talking about the steps and I try to post things that are a little bit more general kind of like God Grant me and keep it simple and stuff like that

Mike (05:49.005)
No! Heheheheh!

Mike (05:57.229)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (06:14.117)
Mm-hmm, right, right.

Bill (06:16.694)
But I think this morning's reading in the 24-hour book talked, it mentioned the step in there, but it was brief, but I really liked it. I forget what it was now, but it was just one of those ones where I'm like, oh, I always like it. First thing I read every morning, but yeah, today was a good one and I ended up posting it. But yeah, so this one, I mean, a couple of things that I wrote down, obviously leaving the past, opening the door of recovery to a new life. And then,

Mike (06:23.345)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (06:29.209)
Right. Yeah, it was.

Bill (06:46.574)
Forging or Forge. Fuck, I don't even know what the fuck I wrote. Ooh, I hear Chris in the background. Damn. Hey. God, I hope, man, she said, that doesn't sound very good. But. Ha ha ha.

Mike (06:50.748)
Let's see here.

Yep, yes you do. Yeah, she's hacking up along.

Mike (07:05.313)
No, I've been listening to it for a week. Anyway, forging, forging. Let's see here. I got the book back. Yeah, I got the book back out. Uh, I don't know. Now I don't see the word forge. Uh, wow. This is compelling podcasting right here. Kids.

Bill (07:12.202)
I was like, okay.

Bill (07:25.334)
It's okay. No, is the, cause the next thing said, you know, it was talking about, you know, we meet a variety of people and, you know, things we do are personal and all those sort of things. And it mentioned the word, you know, that the unique part of it. But what I liked is that, you know, it was, and I think it, oh, that's forging chapter, like forging a new chapter in our life that.

Mike (07:33.571)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (07:44.033)
Right, well yeah, the path to recovery leads us to forge our own character.

Bill (07:49.03)
Oh, character, god damn, I thought that's a chapter, fuck me. So here's the thing. And it's, it's kind of the same thing, but anyhow, so, um, I, I like the fact cause you and I were talking about that with, um, I think with Mara last week when we were talking about the, uh, the retreat, you know, like she was saying that, you know, obviously we're there to talk about the steps and it's based on the readings and that sort of thing. And then you made up a, you brought up a good point saying that, yeah, but it's also based on our experience. Everyone works a little different.

Mike (07:51.609)
Eh, it starts with a C, among other things.

Sure.

Mike (08:03.941)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (08:16.105)
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah.

Bill (08:17.322)
And that's what that reminded me of when I was going through that, or actually reading that. And that's true because the thing of it is, and that, so anyone out there that is not a 12-step individual, and some people only went to a couple of meetings, and one of the reasons that they stepped away from AA, from what I've heard from people, is they see all these steps on the wall, they're like, fuck, man, that it feels really rigid when you see this list, right? But, I mean, theoretically, there are suggestions. That's number one.

Mike (08:34.362)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (08:40.013)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (08:45.489)
Sure.

Bill (08:45.586)
And the only one that we talked about this, the only one that has to be done 100% perfectly is the first one, you know, powerlessness and lives unmanageable, that sort of thing. But the rest of them, I mean, we worked them, but yeah, we've all got our, we've all got our ways of doing it. We're all in this big roadway going in the same direction, but things are a little bit different. So I like that, you know, that, that I talked about that. And then, um, you know, obviously it talked about natural gifts and things like that, which, I mean, all these different things that, that we do, um, you know, bring up

Mike (08:54.213)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (09:14.562)
bring about. Wow. I can't fucking talk. You know what? It feels like it's been a week since we've done this or something like that. Maybe I forgot how to speak. But no, just in general, I like it. The reading itself was kind of cool. You know, again, just all these gifts and stuff like that because we talk about that plenty of times. But yeah, I mean, that was a good one. And once again, I read that this morning and bits and pieces, I'm like, hey, that sounds familiar.

Mike (09:22.077)
Hehe

Mike (09:43.397)
Sounds vaguely familiar, right?

Bill (09:45.806)
Yeah, but, but yeah, I mean, no, I actually I really like the reading. That's definitely a good one. Anything in particular that you took out of it, like pulled away from it or.

Mike (09:51.225)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (09:55.337)
I'm not me just like you touched on you know yes the path is you know kind of the same and whatever and yeah like i talked about last week but you know it's our own individual experience working the steps yes we all kind of do it the same but we all kind of do it a little differently to you know what's important is that we do it. Do it to the best of our ability and what do you know it works.

Bill (10:18.982)
Right. And there is a point though that, you know, when, because I know that there's things that, you know, you had a few sponsors, I've had a few sponsors, and, you know, different things that our sponsors say, hey, you know, try it this way, or we follow those suggestions. So we do copycat, you know, certain people, or, you know, you and I do certain things, you know, the same way. And, I mean, we've spent so much goddamn time together, it's kind of hard not to, you know. So,

Mike (10:26.649)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (10:40.516)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (10:44.17)
We do take and steal and learn and all that stuff, but yeah, you're right. It is a matter of taking these things. It is, it's a recipe, but there's some variance to it, but we're all in the same direction.

Mike (10:46.885)
Mmm.

Mike (10:53.589)
Right. Well, you know, like, right, like Bob used to say all the time, it's an inside job. Yep, we've got to do the work ourselves. And it's it's, you know, yes, it's a guideline. It is a recipe, but it's the work that we have to do internally that makes this thing work.

Bill (11:13.066)
Right? Yeah. I, from what I've heard, I think it, if it works, if you work it, I, I think. Yay. I couldn't help myself. And again, I mean, yeah, we're fucking making fun of other people, but fuck them. So it is what it is. I know. Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. Like it, see the, the other thing that we talk about the retreat, as far as the fact that we prayed after every, every

Mike (11:19.711)
So work it because you're worth it!

Mike (11:30.677)
We're making fun of ourselves. Right.

Mike (11:40.434)
We... No, no we did not.

Bill (11:43.711)
Just the way you're like, hmm. Well, do you want to go ahead and explain that? Because I know how much you love prayer and holding hands. So go ahead.

Mike (11:50.541)
Well, sure, yeah, it was. Let's see, well, we worked what? Three steps a day, basically, or four steps a day for three days, something like that, it averaged out. Right, I could do simple math, I swear. And, right, and I mean, every time we, you know, when we did the steps, we started off with the serenity prayer and we ended up with our father. And,

Bill (11:59.766)
Right.

Bill (12:03.873)
Ha ha

Mike (12:18.401)
You know, and then we broke off into the groups after we did those and we started each one of those groups off with the serenity prayer and then we finished it with the our father, right? So, I mean, I mean, we figure what four times two is eight, and then you got to throw a few more in there because you know, whatever, any, anytime we met up and walked away from each other, I think we did at least two prayers.

Bill (12:28.062)
Heheheheh...

Bill (12:33.09)
Hahaha!

Mike (12:47.241)
Yeah, it was a lot. Figured we were doing a what? Maybe a dozen to 18 prayers a day. Not counting the ones that we did in the morning and at night that we do personally. And I was a lot of goddamn praying.

Bill (12:49.144)
Right.

Bill (13:02.566)
Right. It was just kind of funny because then, like I did, what did I do? Step eight. So six and seven were both together and then eight and nine were both together. So kind of in the same, before we broke off, we did, you know, group those two steps. So in that particular one, and then Mara's up, she was like, okay, what we're going to do, the first is going to get up here. They're going to read about, you know.

Mike (13:09.613)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:14.063)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Bill (13:26.41)
discuss step six, we're gonna get up and pray, then we're gonna sit back down, we're not gonna break off yet. There was two step seven, and then we got back up and prayed and then did that. Which again, I mean, all of it's fine. It was just kind of funny. It was a lot. And then the only thing though, is it was the dude that looked like Rick Moranis that I pointed out. If nobody knows who Rick Moranis is, you gotta fucking look him up. Because Mike and I do that every once in a while. There's people we run across. I'm like,

Mike (13:30.897)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, that's yeah, we did God

Mike (13:41.708)
Yes it was.

Mike (13:47.093)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (13:55.286)
Hey, hey, he sounds like so and so. Now, Sidney, close your eyes. And then I'm like, hey, this dude, Rick Moranis, he's like, oh yeah, I guess so. But.

Mike (13:57.807)
Right.

Mike (14:02.329)
Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, probably most famously, you know, what the gatekeeper or ghostbusters. Yeah.

Bill (14:07.662)
Oh yeah, yep. But yeah, he had like fucking clammy hands and he kept coming in the same, in the one time I just like snuck into another thing like two or three times during that time frame, just like, ugh. Now I'm not like, I'm not like geased out by, you know, I don't know, I'm not a germaphobe. It kind of is what it is, but yeah, when somebody's got these fucking just clammy hands, I'm just like, oh, they were, they were fucking.

Mike (14:14.939)
Mwah

Mike (14:26.863)
Right.

Mike (14:31.329)
Right. They were definitely moist.

Bill (14:37.078)
moist. Yep, I had to, I wiped them off on my pants afterwards. I'm like, oof. But anyhow, I have no idea how I got onto that whole thing, but there's a whole lot of praying. Lots of prayers. But so anything else on the reading, I mean, I liked it. That was a good one. I mean, I never complained about any of the readings, but I just think that was a good one because it just...

Mike (14:38.679)
Right.

Mike (14:42.112)
Hehe

Mike (14:47.394)
Oh, lots of prayers. Yeah, lots of prayers.

Mike (14:59.789)
Yeah, today was actually all three of them were pretty damn good for me. So right. And they were all kind of 12 step stuff too. I couldn't remember if we were doing that this week or not, but yeah, whatever. That will save them for next week.

Bill (15:02.976)
Yeah, I agree.

Bill (15:08.246)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's all good. That's why I figured that, because I know you and I were talking last weekend when I was out there about, you know, I don't know, came up somehow that we were going to do it next week. And it's cool. I mean, it's just next week again anyhow. So, yeah, sorry, everyone. It's just us next week again. Right. Tune in next week for more 12 Steps shit. All right. So if we're good on the reading. So I've got.

Mike (15:21.421)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

You'll just have to tune in again for that 12 step stuff too. Yep.

Bill (15:38.082)
We got an email from a friend of ours, which I forwarded to you. We got a comment from one of our followers that I think is really nice. I wanna touch on this podcast, couple of podcast things, not really ours sort of, but so which one do you want, like the nice emails from people? And then I just, I don't wanna, it's not complaining about the podcast. It's more or less kind of calling myself out on one thing, but so it's up to you. Where do you wanna start?

Mike (15:40.933)
Cool. Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:03.493)
Yeah. Um, well, let's start with the good stuff.

Bill (16:07.026)
Okay. So, um, we had, and God, I should have looked up his episode. We had Gary, um, on our, our podcast, gosh, probably six months ago. I think it was bad. I think it was, but, um, Gary talked to us about retreats and that came up in the podcast. And first of all, his episode did really well. Um, you know, just in general, but really nice guy and he's an active listener and.

Mike (16:20.176)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:28.385)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (16:34.214)
You know, obviously he was talking about the retreat and all the sort of things that we brought up that we were going. So he sent us an email and I already forwarded this to Mike, but I wanted to read this for everyone because again, Gary's a good dude. He's become a friend of the show. Let's call it that, right? All right. So this was from our friend Gary. And again, I can't remember what episode. You guys will have to look it up. Just listen to your podcast about the retreat.

Mike (16:49.433)
That's right. Yep.

Bill (17:00.146)
So glad you both enjoyed it. It's a cool way to fill my spiritual tank and glad you would go to another one. Thank you for the shout out, it made my day. I picked up six years ago on the 19th and I'm grateful that both of you are a part of my sober journey. And then he ends with, now get ready to fuck off and keep fucking off. And then closes it out with stay real guys. So just again, I mean, Gary's a, he's just a good dude and he emails us every once in a while and.

Mike (17:14.074)
Nice.

Mike (17:19.665)
Hehe

Mike (17:24.145)
Cool.

Yeah.

Bill (17:29.51)
says nicer shit about us than we do deserve. And we appreciate him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, congratulations, absolutely. And then the other one is another guy that follows us. And so here's the other thing with this guy. And I don't think I ever, I'm pretty sure I never even told him. So his Instagram handle, and I'm not gonna read it all off, but it's got 1981 in it.

Mike (17:32.973)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And congratulations on six, dude. That's big shit.

Bill (17:58.654)
Okay. And it's got the word sober and then something else in it. So here's the thing. My, my dad, um, got sober in 1981 and his email address was sober 1981. Okay. And whatever it was AOL or anything like that. So, and that's, that's not what this is, but every time since this guy has been following us, every time he comments, I think of my dad, okay. And I don't think I told him that because that's not his.

Mike (17:59.254)
Okay.

Mike (18:08.635)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:13.093)
Hmm, really? Sure. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:24.464)
Right.

Bill (18:27.274)
His handle is not sober 1981, but it's got those two things in it. No doubt, yeah, no doubt. Cause I know the demographic of some of our followers and listeners, definitely no doubt. But he sent us this, and I think this was probably, this might even be two weeks ago now because we had a guest or somewhere in between. But he sent a message on Instagram and said, today is my four year anniversary. This was my first sober page I started following.

Mike (18:30.105)
Yeah, he's probably born in 1981.

Mike (18:38.981)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (18:53.006)
Hmm?

Bill (18:57.106)
and want to thank all yous for the ridiculousness. Sometimes I feel we take ourselves too seriously. This page helps me to not. You guys are the best. And he said number, he's got, his hashtag was four more after that. But it's just, when I saw, I'm like, yeah, really, we were the first page. I kind of wanted to apologize to him, but I was just like, damn, you know, yeah. Yeah.

Mike (18:59.675)
Mmm!

Mike (19:06.294)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:15.291)
Nice.

Mike (19:23.097)
Right? No, absolutely not. We apologize for nothing.

Bill (19:27.782)
Right exactly. Yeah, sorry that you found us first, but I don't know. I mean again, so here here's the thing and this kind of this will kind of lead into the podcast thing I was going to talk about but um We have and I both of us have talked about it endlessly that You know We have a relatively small following on instagram compared to a lot of other pages in a lot of other podcast pages And same thing with our with our listener base the number of plays we get every week again We're a small podcast compared to others out there, you know

Mike (19:31.637)
Hehehehe, mmm!

Mike (19:45.849)
Mm-hmm. Sir?

Mike (19:55.195)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (19:56.962)
Here's the thing though is that we have very engaged followers and very engaged listeners, which is cool. And, you know, they're engaged and they're interactive with us. And it's wonderful. And the fact that we get the same number of plays all the time, roughly, means to me that we're probably getting the same, basically the same listeners, the little fluctuations we get, people who drop in and out.

Mike (20:03.47)
Mm-hmm. That's right. Mm-hmm.

Mike (20:17.055)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (20:20.589)
Right? Sure.

Bill (20:23.394)
You know, but that means that, you know, this whole group of people, they're very loyal to, you know, what we're doing. And that in and of itself, really, really cool. Really cool. So. I know. And so I'll get to that part of the podcast thing here in a second, but do you remember, and we've talked about it a couple of times, and I brought it up, God, it's like three, four months ago. Now there was a podcast that I was listening to, and I said that they had done.

Mike (20:32.013)
Absolutely. Yep. You sick motherfuckers.

Hehe

Mike (20:50.329)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (20:52.002)
just did a year's worth of episodes, like, oh, we're going to take a hiatus, we're going to take a break, and blah, blah. And I was, you know, basically just slamming them for it, right? Okay. So what's that term before, what is it? Something before investigation contempt prior? Okay. So that applies to be here. They came back, okay.

Mike (20:55.85)
Mm hmm. Right.

Mike (21:01.166)
Right.

Mike (21:10.465)
Oh, contempt. Yep. Contempt prior to investigation.

Mike (21:17.651)
Alright. Hehe

Bill (21:21.11)
And I, it just popped up. They're one of the ones that I do enjoy their podcast. It's a guy, it's a male and a female. He's been sober almost nine years. She's been sober two and a half, something like that. They're just fun. They're kind of like just us in their natural conversation, but they're cool enough. So they come back and it's, they're one of the ones I follow. So it popped up and you could see a little blue dot and Spotify. So I knew, I'm like, oh damn, there's two episodes.

Mike (21:25.253)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (21:31.729)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Mike (21:45.38)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (21:45.834)
So there was two that had been released since they came back. And I listened to the first one and this guy starts talking about what the deal was, their back and why he had done whatever this dude like, what happened. He like had a meltdown, you know? Um, and, and I'm not, I'm not blowing anyone's anonymity here. First of all, I'm not naming them. Cause I'm not, I'm not promoting their podcast. That's not my point. Okay. Um, we have no interaction with them that way, or I would, but I like them. That's let me just, I'll leave it at that. Um, but.

Mike (21:54.522)
Hmm?

Mmm.

Mike (22:04.249)
Right.

Bill (22:12.414)
All this thing, everything I'm gonna say he said in his podcast, I'm not telling stories, okay? But he said, yeah, he was just, he was overwhelmed with stuff. He was doing this, he was doing that. And basically they took the break because he was having, he didn't want to drink necessarily, but kind of like was just, I need to get my shit straight, man. He was going nuts, you know? So he did, he self-employed and did other things, blah, all these different stuff. He paused everything for like eight weeks. And then...

Mike (22:17.541)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:27.615)
Mm.

Mike (22:31.15)
Right?

Mike (22:39.473)
Mmm.

Bill (22:42.634)
every day did an outpatient treatment thing, like a group setting and whatever, started going back to AA meetings because he never really did an AA thing and basically just recalibrated himself, okay, for these two months. And I'm sitting there listening to this, I'm like, I'm such a fucking asshole. Right, right, I know.

Mike (22:46.693)
Hmm

Mike (22:49.829)
Alright?

Mike (22:54.832)
Mmm!

Mike (23:01.106)
Well, we know that. And I jumped right on in with you. Right? I don't even fucking listen to the podcast. And I'm like, yeah, fuck them. Hehe

Bill (23:09.976)
Right. So, again, that goes back to the thing where you never know what somebody is going through, right? And, I mean, you and I, we fuck around and we do all those different things, but both of us, I mean, we're judgmental, but we try not to be. We try to be understanding and realize that people are going through some shit, but, you know, I mean, we were having some fun and whatever at somebody else's expense. But here's the other thing is that, I don't know, part of this, I'm like,

Mike (23:15.542)
Mm hmm. Absolutely.

Mike (23:24.785)
Hmm.

Mike (23:32.249)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (23:35.998)
As soon as I heard that I'm like, I need to bring this up. I didn't need to. I never would have, I didn't have to share this with fucking anyone, you know?

Mike (23:39.629)
Mm hmm. Right. I know. Right. Yeah. They don't know. The listeners don't know. It doesn't matter. But we've got this goddamn thing called the conscience now. Fuck.

Bill (23:45.57)
Ha ha ha!

Bill (23:49.118)
I know. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, you know what? I need to let people know what a dick I am, more so than I come across as. You know, there's my dickness on the surface that everyone sees and I wear proudly. You know, I wear that proudly. But here's this other part of me that I'm like, oh, fuck me. You know, so I just thought it was important to bring it up because, you know, this dude's been sober. And you know, the timeframe that he's been sober, that's number one. He's married and has kids.

Mike (23:58.251)
Right.

Mike (24:02.197)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike (24:11.985)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (24:18.414)
He's got a life, you know, successful, you know, all these different things going on. Um, but literally, I mean, he, he recognized what he was going through. And I'm like, fuck me. That's great. You know, cause you recognize it. You had the ability to basically just shut yourself off and just take care of yourself for, you know, for six weeks or whatever it was, it tapered down at the end.

Mike (24:20.327)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike (24:27.373)
Right? Yeah, it is.

Mike (24:33.895)
Mmm.

Mike (24:37.869)
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's some January 6th shit right there, man. Sobriety fucking comes first, no matter what.

Bill (24:42.273)
Right. And then here's...

Right? So here's the other thing, you know, the AA meetings was the other, because he never, he never talked down about AA, just kind of, just kind of wasn't his deal, you know, like a lot of people I've listened to and we've heard. But he's like, he goes, I need the structure. He goes, I, he goes, this, this group that I did, he goes, every day I was here, we were there to this, we did this stuff, because I, I thrived on that structure. So then what he did, he still put all his, because he was kind of all in this self-employed stuff, he hadn't had a, like a nine to five job, I think, since.

Mike (24:51.765)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:06.661)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (25:15.754)
I don't know, it's been eight years, nine years, something like that. He went back to work at a nine to five job also to get the structure back. Doing what he does, whatever it is, he didn't say, but I'm like, Jesus Christ, man. I'm like, good for you. Ha ha ha. And I'm just like, goddamn. So that's the other reason I wanted to share it because it doesn't matter how long we're sober. And eight years is a long fucking time. 13 years is a long time for me not to.

Mike (25:18.833)
Alright.

Mike (25:22.425)
Hmm

Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:30.735)
Hmm. Yeah, no shit.

Mike (25:41.825)
Oh, absolutely.

Bill (25:43.958)
You know, I have contempt prior to investigation. But that still happens. But this happens on the other side. And I'm like, this is just something cool that I wanted to share. And just, you know, again, I listen to them and I enjoy them. And, you know, I just, I'm glad that it's cool, but I'm glad that he was able to see something like that. And I was just like, it's awesome, you know?

Mike (25:46.529)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:53.809)
Absolutely.

Mike (26:04.077)
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and glad, you know, that he had the ability to do it and also have the realization that fuck man, I need to, I need to reset myself otherwise, you know, this I might get away with it. I might not, you know, and that's, that's important to, to realize that. Yeah. That's, that's big shit, man.

Bill (26:29.526)
Well, and the other thing he said too, and this was, I think this whole thing, I'm saying he's a bit of an egotist. He's got that in him kind of like us, you know, in a lot of, yeah, exactly. You know, but I mean, he's, I think this, some of this stuff humbled him because he kept making a point of it. He goes, now, he goes, here's the thing. He goes, I'm so grateful that I have the insurance. I'm grateful I was able to take the time. Everything that you just said, you know, but he's like, and then he has the co-host, and she's like, yeah, and you noticed it. And he's like, yeah, he goes, I'm grateful for that too.

Mike (26:36.453)
Hmm. It's always an alcoholic.

Mike (26:44.196)
Hmm?

Mike (26:51.245)
Alright. Mm-hmm.

Bill (26:58.958)
It's just this whole line of stuff. I'm like, damn, it was, it was kind of, it, it really caught me in a really good way. But then also I'm listening to, I'm like, oh, you fucker. He just mothered me, you know? And I'm just like, ah, you fucking piece of shit. Fucking fuck. But, um, but yeah, so I told on myself. So I feel a little bit, I feel a little bit better about that. So yeah, what I was wrong, promptly admitted to every one of you fuckers out.

Mike (26:59.055)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (27:05.221)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (27:11.977)
Hehe

Mike (27:16.234)
Uh-huh.

Mike (27:20.697)
You did? Yeah! Little 10 step action there, that's good.

Mike (27:28.893)
Uh huh, that's right.

Bill (27:30.134)
So yeah. But so the other thing on the podcast stuff, Sonia that we had on like a year ago, remember Sonia from Canada? Her and her ex-sister-in-law also started a podcast. So, you know, Sonia does her thing with all her recovery groups and things like that. And then her sister-in-law, I think is a, I think she's a therapist in Canada. So their ex-sister-in-law, so they started this podcast.

Mike (27:37.589)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike (27:44.443)
Hmm.

Mike (27:53.521)
Okay.

Bill (27:58.546)
And I listened to it because again, it's Sonya, it's somebody we add on. They're probably, they're more on the clinical side, because again, what both of them do, but still interesting topics. They were talking about emotional sobriety, all this different stuff. And I had sent her a message. I'm like, damn, I said, I just listened to your first episode. I really enjoyed it. And I'm like, it sounds great, the whole production value and stuff. And then I listened to the second one, and then she posted this thing that they got 10,000.

Mike (28:01.429)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike (28:06.89)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike (28:20.881)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (28:28.45)
downloads in the first two episodes. So I pull, I'm like, I'm like, it took us a year, like a year to get that. And literally I'm just, I'm like, first of all, I said, congratulations, that's huge. But I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? So she came back and she said, they actually hired a production company to do their first four episodes. So.

Mike (28:29.873)
Mmmm

Mike (28:37.121)
Right!

Mike (28:43.42)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

Mike (28:53.329)
Ah.

Mm-hmm.

Bill (28:56.246)
they produced them, which again, the production value and that sort of thing, it's kind of like, I don't know if you've ever actually listened to Matt, Sober Friends, he's got again, once you listen to that, Decoding the Big Book you'll hear, it's just, it's produced very well, but that's all Matt. But anyhow, and she said that production company is also somehow promoting it. And I said, well, whatever they're doing, they're doing the right things, you know? And then I'm just like, I'm like, part of me was just like, son of a bitch, you know?

Mike (28:59.737)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:11.309)
Right.

Mike (29:17.617)
Sure. Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:25.463)
Right?

Bill (29:26.55)
But here's the thing, you know, then I'm like, I'm in the production company, this and that. I mean, I like what we do and I like where we're at. But one thing that we haven't talked about recently, and just to let everyone know, and because every single podcast I've listened to, and we've talked about this before, nobody begs for donations, nobody begs for anything like that. But what everyone mentions, which we do, but everyone that's listening, again, everything we just talked about, this small, loyal and engaged audience, tell...

Mike (29:32.697)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:54.405)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (29:54.606)
Tell one of your friends about us. If you like what we're doing, tell one of your friends. Share any one of our posts. I post an episode clip every single day. Or whether you're listening on Spotify or Apple or Google, wherever you're listening, go on there, give us five stars and just a brief review. Because what that does, and I found this out from other people, the more activity, it's not just the listens, but the more activity that there is on a podcast, it raises it kind of in the ranks. And the whole point is,

Mike (29:56.761)
Yeah. Mm hmm.

Mike (30:14.912)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (30:24.654)
quote, here, these are my big old fucking quotes, air quotes. We don't get paid more to be higher on the list, okay? Because we don't get, we're not making any money on this, okay? I think we've made that very fucking clear, which is fine. But what it does though, is that if you truly do like what we talk about for whatever fucking reason, you know, it grows and then other people can listen to it. And it's cool, you know? So.

Mike (30:32.586)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (30:47.33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Bill (30:52.31)
Yes, you can buy us a coffee, you can go on our web store, you can do all those different things, but free shit that you can do. Tell one person about us, post about us one time, even once a week, once a month if you want to, on Instagram or Facebook. And even if you tell 10 people, three people will listen. That's what it'll come down to and there it is. So I think we've done everything we can on our end. We put spectacular words.

Mike (31:00.205)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:03.985)
Try it.

Mike (31:09.873)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:20.928)
You couldn't even get that out.

Bill (31:22.142)
No, no, I know. We don't work that hard. Why should you? I get it. No, I get it. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, okay. So fuck it. Don't tell anyone. Just keep listening. Yeah, tell a couple of people. But no, I mean, seriously, from a serious standpoint, you know, if we get these nice comments from people every once in a while, and it leads both Mike and I to believe that possibly other people out there, again, for whatever reason, might get something out of this.

Mike (31:26.433)
Mm-mm. Right.

Mike (31:31.833)
Yeah, that's right. They had to tell a couple people. Right.

Mike (31:49.137)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bill (31:51.934)
Seriously, we really don't, we're egotist, be more so than Mike. Let me talk about myself, but, um, you know, we can be egotistical. We can fuck around, but we also realize that, you know, I mean, some of this shit, we've got some, we've got some days behind us, you know, and we went through some shit, then keep going through some shit. So, um, maybe one or two words out in between the dick jokes and the fuck use. It might help. Who knows? So.

Mike (31:56.206)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (32:06.545)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (32:17.281)
Absolutely, which is kind of, you know, yes, we like doing this. We like hanging out with each other. But, you know, we do want to help somebody. Don't know exactly how, but we know we want to do it.

Bill (32:28.442)
Yeah, and this is what's kind of crazy too, when I was setting up the studio. This is episode 95, so it's fucking crazy. Just out of curiosity the other day, and you know, because you and I have actually talked off of here, I'm not as concerned about the reach on Instagram, I'm not so much concerned about our follower base.

Mike (32:38.853)
Mm-hmm. I know.

Mike (32:49.099)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (32:55.166)
If an episode's doing weird or doing well, I mean, I, you know, I don't get bummed out if it doesn't all of our episodes do about the same. Um, but just out of curiosity, I started, I looked up, uh, cause I'm like, God, how many, I wonder how many podcasts against statistically make it to a hundred and that sort of thing. And it's, it's just ungodly. They said that again, like we, we saw to begin with a lot of, a lot of podcasts quit after three episodes. Um, whatever that percentage was only 25%. I think you had that one make it to 11. Um,

Mike (33:10.481)
Mm-hmm

Mike (33:17.614)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:23.097)
Right?

Bill (33:23.834)
getting to a year, I mean, 90% we knew that statistic, you know, 90% fail within a year. And then they started going through all this stuff. And like, I mean, out of these millions of podcasts, it's down in the in the hundreds of thousands that are actually active. And what I mean by active is that they posted something in, in the calendar year. And then they go to a smaller point about, you know, people that post all the time on a weekly or monthly basis, you know, so I'm like, okay.

Mike (33:27.919)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:40.471)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (33:45.665)
Right.

Mike (33:51.212)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (33:52.814)
And again, we are what we are. We're the little legend that could. Is it really? Yeah, fuck me, man. We've been hanging out too fucking long. And again, it's not a bad thing, but every once in a while, it just kind of blows my mind that we think the same goddamn thing. But...

Mike (33:57.718)
That's exactly what I thought of. It is.

Mike (34:07.308)
Two half of brains.

Mike (34:14.641)
I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.

Bill (34:17.398)
But, but seriously, anyhow, we, we truly 100% appreciate everyone that listens. Um, if you could, and if you want to, you know, share it with somebody, that'd be awesome. Um, and like I said, there's, there's so many fucking podcasts out of there and so many choices, which is why it's so, it, it means so much more to us and literally there's millions of fucking podcasts out there. And the fact that you guys listen to us in, and some of you guys were in your, like, you know, the top, top 10 or top five of podcasts, which

Mike (34:26.532)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (34:37.279)
Oh yeah.

Mike (34:44.879)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (34:45.822)
Again, fucking mind blowing, you know? Well, it's just... Thank you, I guess that's all we can say, right?

Mike (34:48.301)
I know.

Mike (34:52.653)
That's it. That's it. Yes. Thank you very much and like and subscribe and share

Bill (34:56.922)
Yeah. So why don't we, I'm kind of tearing up a little bit here, so why don't we take a...

Mike (35:03.498)
Yeah, go wipe yourself off and we will be back right after these words from our sponsor.

Bill (35:17.062)
All right, everyone, welcome back. And yeah, wiped away my crocodile tears and I'm all good, I'm in good shape now. So yeah, I really wasn't crying in case anyone was wondering, but now Mike is muted. So, or will you? Oh, Chris is back there. Tell her, just give her a virtual hug for me, would you? You know, just.

Mike (35:30.149)
and he does have to wipe himself off.

Mike (35:34.937)
Yeah.

Mike (35:38.905)
Bill is sending a virtual hug to you right now.

Bill (35:41.898)
Yeah. Ha ha ha!

Mike (35:45.557)
Wow! And she cleared her throat for you. Baaah!

Bill (35:50.269)
Ha ha ha! Ah! Arrrr! You know what that reminded me of is Dan Aykroyd in Trading Places when he's got the snake and it's stuck in his beard. Arrrr!

Mike (35:55.129)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehehehe.

Right, the giant salmon steak stuck in his Santa Claus beard. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, right.

Bill (36:00.726)
Yeah, oh, I did. Yeah, I forgot about that. That was a salmon steak. Yeah, okay. All right. So, but I mean, I've got a bunch of other stuff on here. Let me think if there was one, was one other thing I wanted to really touch on, but we've got, Megan sent us all those questions. Let's, you know what? Let's just go that. That's on my last page here. I'm just gonna read these off as they appear. How's that?

Mike (36:20.821)
Oh yeah! Mmhmm.

Mike (36:27.993)
Yeah. And that's been, that's been like, what about six weeks or so? So I think we need to get to that. Do it.

Bill (36:30.686)
Yeah, when, well, let's do it right now. Okay, so this is, this is from our friend, Crazy Megan. And when she sent this to us, she signed it deuces, Crazy Megan. And she says, I love to pick a curious mind. Let's stir a pot. She is our friend and we appreciate her just for doing shit like that. So number one, in some 12 step recovery circles,

Mike (36:38.609)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (36:45.031)
Hehe

Mike (36:51.269)
Mmm

Mike (36:55.028)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (36:59.114)
medication-assisted treatment, Vivatrol, Suboxone, Methadone, individuals are not as welcome. What are, what is, okay, Megan, what is, what is your view on this? What is your view on this? Now, we talked about all this stuff before, but, yes, what's, pardon me, sir, what are your views? Which, so we've talked about this a little bit, but we could do, we could do a re, kind of a refresh. So,

Mike (37:09.561)
FFFF

Mike (37:14.003)
Uh huh. Or what are your views?

Mike (37:21.827)
That fucking microphone out of my face.

Mike (37:28.497)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (37:28.85)
medical assisted treatment. I would say

Mike (37:31.509)
Well, there's actually, read the whole question again.

Bill (37:34.75)
In 12 step recovery circles, medication assisted treatment individuals, oh, are not as welcomed. What are your views on this? Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, I did kind of wash over that part. Sorry about that.

Mike (37:43.113)
Mm-hmm. Right. No, that's okay. I just, I wanted to make sure it was all in there. Right. Well, we've again made our views very much known that, yes, you know, that's not our path. It's for me, it's an easier, softer way. It's not actually working a recovery program. It's trying to substitute one substance for another,

big book talks about. If you're curious about that, read it. And I still don't know what natural wines are. Right, but not as welcome. You know, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Yes, you know, if you are asking me for help and you are trying to use one of those other

Bill (38:20.142)
Hahaha

Mike (38:42.821)
Um, you know, I'm probably not the guy that's going to be the best fit for you to work with. Um, but you're certainly welcome. Certainly welcome. Um, anybody that, that tries to, anybody that tries to keep anybody out of recovery just because of that is a fucking asshole and they can go fuck themselves. Um, right. But again.

You know, we've made our views clear on that. Yes, it did. That's not our path. And that's, we don't think it's going to work in the long run. Um, I've never seen, um, I've never seen a very successful person do that. Um, I've seen people stay off the other substances on those other substances, if that makes sense. Um, but I don't see them recovered. And I sure as hell don't see them happy, joyous and free. So, um, yeah.

You know, definitely not free. Um, yeah. So, you know, but, um, to be unwelcoming to those individuals, that's fucking wrong too. That's just as wrong as anything else.

Bill (39:47.458)
Yeah, and that's, and I was focusing more on the actual substance issue she was talking about than that sentence when that was actually the most important part of it because what we were talking about was, you know, do we consider, we were talking about it with, I think on her own, but also with Katie, because Katie brought up that question, you know, as far as sober. So neither one of us necessarily considered the person to be sober if they're doing that because they're still on substances and everything you said, I agree with you.

Mike (39:51.835)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:55.185)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:05.745)
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Mike (40:12.662)
Right.

Bill (40:16.046)
Um, but yeah, to be, because there was, and we've talked about this before, there was a dude, um, that used to come into our meeting at who do you know, every single Friday and you can smell the booze on them. I mean, he came in, you know, either, either lit or coming off, you know, but he was sitting, he was sitting in that seat in the front. Oh yeah. Yeah. In the, he was in the front, you know, in the front row at the meeting every week. So we, we have to, I hate to say assume, but we have to surmise that he had the

Mike (40:25.518)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:31.17)
Right, definitely in a system. Yes.

Mike (40:37.825)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Every week.

Bill (40:46.682)
You know, he didn't walk in there and say, you know, fuck this. I don't want to get sober. I'm just sitting in here to, you know, to ooze alcohol out of my pores for an hour. You know, but yeah, it's, yeah, the not welcoming part. I, thankfully, I don't think I have ever, I don't think I've ever been in a meeting where somebody was asked to leave or not allowed to come in. I've heard of stories like that where somebody starts getting

Mike (40:46.929)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:50.519)
Right.

Mike (40:54.565)
Hehe

Mike (41:11.3)
Mm-mm.

Mike (41:15.601)
I mean, yeah, right. I mean, I have been in a couple of meetings where, clearly they were fucked up and they were being, yeah, you know, interruptive. They were, yeah. And so, yeah, you know, you walk them outside and you say, hey man, you know, you can't do that in here and, you know, come back next week, man. You're, you know, that's, definitely seen that.

Bill (41:15.719)
Unruly.

Mike (41:45.497)
You know, and they'll usually tell you to fuck off and they probably won't show up the next week, but you tell them that they're, you tell them they're welcome. They just can't be in there while they're being that way, you know? But yeah, of course. But I mean, you know, I've talked about it. I fucking shot up in the bathroom meeting before I've been drunk. I've been high. I've been at meetings loaded plenty of times in my past. Um, but I wasn't, you know, I didn't interrupt it. I didn't abuse anybody else. And, and, you know,

Bill (41:49.698)
Ha ha!

Mike (42:15.085)
I'm sure there were people in there that knew that I wasn't sober. Um, but nobody asked my ass to leave. Yep.

Bill (42:20.194)
Right. Yeah, so, okay, so the quick wrap up, not our thing with being medically assisted, but if somebody walks into a meeting and has that, you know, fits that number one and only requirement, then they're in. Right? Cool. Okay. Question number two, do you believe trauma predisposes someone to addiction issues?

Mike (42:27.93)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (42:33.681)
Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely.

Mike (42:44.401)
Absolutely not.

Bill (42:45.454)
Okay. Question number three.

Mike (42:52.609)
Right. And I mean, you know, that is the buzzword. My home group, we've, we've had some new blood come in, which is good. And, you know, we've got some, actually some females coming in and which is good, you know, cause it is an open meeting. And, you know, they've been being of service and chairing and getting leads and stuff. So we've gotten again, new blood is the best way to put it. And, and the word trauma has come up.

recently at my home group. Um, and I sit there and go, uh, right. It is the new buzzword and absolutely, you know, but we've all had trauma and there are plenty of people out there that have had lots of trauma that aren't us. They deal with it differently. Maybe not, you know, they may even deal with it worse than we did. Um, you know, absolutely. Uh, but no, um, one does not have,

to do with the other clearly, um, you know, whatever trauma you and I have had in our lives is pretty fucking mild, um, compared to many, many people. And, uh, it didn't stop us from, you know, goddamn out of control drunks. Um, so great. Yeah. So, I mean, so it goes both ways, you know, no, I, yes, I, I think, uh,

Bill (44:05.933)
Heheheheheheh

Great.

Mike (44:18.361)
You know, because of trauma you can medicate, but you can be a complete asshole in other ways and you can be a complete asshole and not have any trauma at all. So yeah.

Bill (44:29.494)
Right. And I think that the key word to that one, and I'm glad she put it this way, is predisposes, you know, because I think that means everything. And so that one doesn't equal the other is, I guess, the easiest, the easiest way to put it. Now, granted, you know, people, people could have anything. You know, some people I had I had fucking zero coping skills. You know, I and it has a 40 is a, you know, as a 41 year old, well, quote unquote, adult male.

Mike (44:36.357)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (44:41.409)
No. Right.

Mike (44:50.277)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (44:56.753)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (44:57.174)
when my dad died, I didn't know what, I was already a fucking raging alcoholic and all I knew to do was to just drown, drown more. Now, so could I look at that piece? That was my over the edge point, just cause I didn't know how to deal. So I'm like, fuck it, I'm just gonna drink more, you know? But to your, and I like the fact that you put that, there's, there are, I mean, there's millions of people in this country that have gone, you know, through horrible.

Mike (45:06.202)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (45:11.409)
Mm-hmm. All right. Sure.

Bill (45:26.386)
And I'm not laughing at it, but I mean, just I can't even imagine horrible things. And, you know, they make it through life. They go to therapy, they do what they got to do. They do whatever they need to do to get over that sort of thing. But I mean, again, millions of them are not alcoholics, you know, and then, you know, you and I, you and I went through some shit, I think. I mean, I know your I know your childhood stories. I think you went through, you know, maybe some more shit than I. And, you know, nobody would nobody on my side of the family was saints. But I.

Mike (45:27.069)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (45:38.329)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (45:42.125)
Right, exactly.

Mike (45:48.795)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Bill (45:54.658)
I didn't get the shit kicked out of me. I didn't get left for dead anywhere. And I didn't get abused, probably mentally, I suppose, if you really wanted to dig into it, but we all are. Maybe mentally and verbally, but I don't know. But yeah, the predisposeless thing, I think, is the main word and yeah, no. So, okay. All right, yeah, so I just sounded kind of funny. I'm like, well, let's just go on, man. But yep. Yeah, if...

Mike (45:58.633)
Right? Mm-hmm. Hmm. Right.

Mike (46:08.65)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (46:13.522)
Mm hmm. Absolutely not. Right.

Mike (46:20.171)
I know that was it. Nope, next!

Bill (46:23.646)
if Megan listens to this. Love you, Megan.

Mike (46:26.53)
Yeah, I know, she's laughing her ass off.

Bill (46:28.25)
Yeah. Okay. So, uh, number three, have you ever met somebody constitutionally incapable? If so, why do you think they were now? I'm just going to explain this. If people who are not or have not ever been around a 12 step program, um, basically in chapter five, how it works, it talks about, you know, the, again, how, how all this shit comes together and how we do what we do.

Mike (46:36.552)
Hehe

Bill (46:52.67)
And they say that there are certain people that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves, but even they can find sobriety if they're willing to, what is it, willing to be honest or willing to go down a certain path or whatever it is. So, yeah.

Mike (46:59.835)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (47:11.061)
Right. Well, no, that's actually, no, there are some people that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. Um, there are such infortunates, but yeah. Um, you know, and then it goes on to, um, there are people with mental problems, but if they could be honest, they can work this thing. Um, yeah, but the people that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves, this doesn't work for them. That's what the book's saying. Yeah. Um.

Bill (47:21.378)
There you go.

Bill (47:29.551)
Oh, okay, yes, okay, gotcha.

Mike (47:40.161)
I know one and I'm not going to mention her name cause yeah, but I do know one. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's a little frightening, but yeah. Um, you know, and thankfully that doesn't apply to her. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a little scary that there's. Yeah. You know, there's, there are people out there that just fucking their reality is. I mean.

They will tell you that the sky is green. They will fucking believe it with all their heart. And there's nothing you could do to change their mind. And it's weird. Yeah. So I do know one, you know, but thankfully it, she doesn't have to work this program. So eh, whatever, move on.

Bill (48:23.638)
Well, and I wasn't incapable of being honest, but I was trying to be capable of letting people believe that I was being honest. Is that the right way to put it? Let me give an example. Unfortunately, my ex-wife Dawn, and Dawn, I was about to say she's a saint. She's not a saint. She's an everyday, lovely human being. And I mean that.

Mike (48:38.356)
Well, probably not, but I know what you mean.

Mike (48:49.093)
Hmm. Hehehehehehe. Yes, yes.

Bill (48:52.31)
But I mean, none of us are saints. And I think if she ever listens to this, ha ha, well that's probably why we got together. But no, but I mean, she didn't deserve the treatment that she got from me. And one of those things was is that, she would look outside and say, hey, look, the sun's out. And I'm like, no, it's not. And she's like, look right there, the sun's out. I'm like, no.

Mike (48:55.733)
Right. Plus I've looked at her eyes. I know she's got a little devil in there. Yeah, I know. I'm sure it is.

Mike (49:11.323)
Mmm, course not.

Mike (49:20.743)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (49:21.862)
It's not, you know, and. Right, right. But that was, and that was the same thing. She's like, you were drinking today, weren't you? Of course not. You know, I checked this night. Of course not. You know, that was that was me being that's the opposite of that. But I don't know that. I've known people since we got sober that either couldn't grasp step one or didn't work things and, you know, refuse to do those sort of things. It kept slips up slipping.

Mike (49:23.533)
Yeah, but you see the difference is you knew the fucking sun was out. You're just being a dick

Mike (49:33.489)
Of course not. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. So, I'm going to go ahead and start the video. I'm going to go ahead and start the video.

Mike (49:47.415)
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Bill (49:50.69)
You know, and I don't know if that's constitutionally incapable. That's just maybe not grasping it. I don't know. I, I don't know that I've met anyone that is constitutionally incapable of being honest, like a pathological liar. You know, I don't think I've met that.

Mike (50:00.653)
Right, right. Yeah, well, you know, I've met a lot of people and I only know one. So yeah, there's that. But, right, and that's exactly what the book is talking about when it comes to that is, you know, working the first step. You know, yes, you know, we will fight tooth and nail to not admit that we have a problem, you know, that we have some sort of control over this thing.

that we have power and, uh, you know, and then again, the first step, man, powerless and it's a bitch for us to go. Yeah. I, you know, I have absolutely no power, but once, but once we do it, somehow freeing, which is fucking weird.

Bill (50:41.4)
Yeah

Bill (50:51.498)
Yeah, I know. And it's, it is. I mean, that whole thing is that the powerlessness thing is, I mean, it's a killer, you know, it's that's that is the thing that, you know, God, even to this day, you know, it doesn't matter what it is. Things that I, things that I want that would actually benefit my life in a positive way, you know, and it doesn't, doesn't matter what it is. And I'm not, I'm not hoping for, you know, like you said, can I wish for a new car?

Mike (50:58.125)
Mm.

Mike (51:01.21)
Right.

Mike (51:14.138)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (51:21.018)
Whenever that was a couple weeks ago. You can wish all you fucking want, but it's not that. It's like maybe it's a livelihood thing. Maybe it's a growth thing. There's whatever it is, but I can't force it and I can't push it type of thing. Or, you know, and we talked about, we talked about, you know, mom's death and our stepdad Larry's death or anyone we've known that passed away. No matter what we did, we couldn't, we can't control those things. You know, we can't control that shit. That's powerlessness. And we talked about that when our mom died, you know.

Mike (51:24.986)
Hehe

Mike (51:29.905)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (51:39.36)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (51:44.129)
Nope.

Bill (51:49.858)
that's life on life's terms and talk about feeling powerless. She's like, fuck, just a random Sunday morning, well, she's fucking dead. Oh, okay, gone, bye. But yeah, the powerlessness thing. So anyhow, I guess to answer that question, you know one person not necessarily in this program, but if that individual would have to work this program, that probably wouldn't work for that individual.

Mike (51:50.017)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (51:55.291)
Right.

Mike (51:59.05)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (52:08.529)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (52:13.153)
I don't see how it could. Hehe

Bill (52:16.037)
Okay, no, and that's...

Bill (52:22.378)
Really? Hang on, hang on. Hold on. Note... wait. Note to self? Yeah, could. Could. Right. Yes. Maybe. Could be.

Mike (52:31.8)
Mm-hmm. Could. Not necessarily M. Just could be wrong. Right. Mm-hmm. So you're telling me there's a chance.

Bill (52:41.098)
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so number four, in sobriety, who have you placed on a pedestal and have they shown they are human and how? Okay.

Mike (52:46.222)
Mm.

Mike (52:49.786)
Mmm.

Bill (52:56.13)
Do you want, do you want to go first? Okay, go ahead.

Mike (52:56.881)
Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, yeah, um, thankfully, um, you know, we were taught that pretty early on not to do that. Um, yeah, there are certainly people I looked up to. There were certainly people that had what I wanted. And so I did what they did. Um, but yo, absolutely. And every one of them,

Um, in one way or another has shown me their humanity, uh, which is cool too. You know, um, which, you know, I, I think is kind of one of the big themes of this podcast is showing people that we're human, we're stupid, we're filthy and we're sober. That's right. Absolutely. Yes.

Bill (53:25.119)
Ha!

Bill (53:42.618)
Yeah, in spite of ourselves, right?

Mike (53:47.385)
Um, yeah, so, you know, um, no, not, not very high. And, um, and again, um, thankfully those guys that we, uh, globed onto early off, uh, you know, they showed us not to put people up on a pedestal too far. Um, look for the qualities that you want. And, um, and, and yes, we're all human. We're all equal. Try to do this thing one day at a time like everybody else. So no, nobody, nobody.

certainly fell from grace. Thankfully, I chose fairly well the people that I not necessarily put on a pedestal, but certainly looked up to, you know, just because they were just very slightly more elevated than I was at the time. Yeah, right, right.

Bill (54:34.73)
Right, right. Well, and the only reason I asked you if you wanted to go first, you seemed to pause for a minute there when I first asked the question. So, because I know you normally go first and I, but you had that minor pause, but you were maybe you were reflecting. But so here's the funny part and talk about, you know, two brains together. That was what you said, almost to a T what I was gonna say is we were taught very early.

Mike (54:42.563)
Mmm.

Mike (54:45.881)
Nuff.

Mike (54:50.202)
I was!

Mike (54:55.771)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (54:59.423)
Uh huh.

Bill (55:00.978)
And here's the thing, and I just looked it up. I've got the 24-hour book on my phone, and it's got a search function like the Big Book app does. So this reading, okay, which is kind of cool, from the 24-hour book is July 23rd while we were still halfway. Yep, so this is cool. And this was the thought for the day from there. We should remember that all AA's have a clay feet.

Mike (55:06.277)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (55:09.626)
Right.

Mike (55:14.129)
Mm-hmm.

I was going to say, I was wondering, yeah, so like, yeah, a couple of months into it for us.

Mike (55:26.084)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (55:28.97)
We should not set any member on a pedestal and mark her or him as a perfect AA member. It's not fair to the person to be singled out in this fashion and if the person is wise, he or she will not wish it. If the person we single out as ideal has a fall, we are in danger of falling too. So it's not the whole thing, but that's the exact gist of what we were just talking about.

Mike (55:29.425)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (55:41.617)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (55:46.309)
Mm-hmm. Right. Oh, absolutely. And that's, yeah, you know, the fog was starting to lift about two months into this thing and about three months into this thing for us. And we read that and went, hmm, right. I'm sure that's where we got it from.

Bill (56:06.378)
Yeah, and that's just kind of funny because, and I remembered the clay feet thing. So that's what I literally typed in, clay feet. But yeah, it was just kind of funny. And as I'm reading this, I just got a text. So Cathy went out to see Mark and Michael in New York City this weekend. So she sends me a text, starting the vacuum in my room. See, she's got the little Roomba thing, which the one time when she wasn't here, she started that, she could do it on her phone.

Mike (56:11.633)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (56:23.199)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (56:31.537)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (56:34.806)
And I mean, there's nobody in the fucking house and I hear this banging and I'm like, what the fuck, man? So, cause it will, it'll come up, it'll hit the door and whatever, but I just thought that was kind of funny. So I just gave her rockhorns on the way back. So, okay. But no, I think both of us agree. I don't, we learned that right away and I don't think there was anyone that I was ever, if somebody fell, it's what we do, which is a sad way to put it, but it is, so.

Mike (56:37.665)
the fifth

Mike (56:47.309)
Hehe

Mike (57:00.547)
Mm-hmm.

Right? Right. Exactly. And, and you know, like I talked about, right? Yeah. You know, there were people that we certainly looked up to. Um, but we, I think more looked across to, you know, you know, they were ahead of us. Yeah. Looked up not height wise, but ahead of us on the path. I think it's the only way we did it. And I think that's the only way to do it.

Bill (57:25.622)
Right. Yeah, they're just a, they're, they're a couple of people ahead of us in line. We're all in the same, in the same walk-in path, and they're just a few people ahead of us. So.

Mike (57:30.417)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah. But we wanted to see how they were putting one foot in front of the other. Yeah. The fuck are you doing that? How the hell did you get up there?

Bill (57:37.862)
Right, right. If they stumble, and if they do stumble, we can juke to the left and keep on walking. So yeah. All right. So next one, and we talked about this briefly, but question number five, on December 7th, Ohio is a recreational cannabis state. Any thoughts? What about the use for medical reasons? Which again, we touched on this, but do you want to recap?

Mike (57:49.901)
That's right.

Mike (58:03.098)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (58:07.493)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (58:08.106)
recap that. So any thoughts on it being, you know, obviously going into, you know, recreational and what about if people use it for medical reasons?

Mike (58:13.477)
Right.

Right, you know, people use all kinds of drugs for medical reasons, so that's fine, whatever. You know, I will say that I voted for it because I don't think there's, you know, booze is legal. You know, pot should be legal. I've talked about it out here before, man. Cocaine and heroin and every fucking thing else should be legal, you know, regulated, taxed, and let's move on, let's be grownups about it. They can, I can't.

So I won't. Uh, yeah, it's the same as beer. And yeah, I was talking about somebody the other day about that, you know, uh, one of my coworkers was like, well, hell, I can't show up for work drunk either, you know, and he's all, oh yeah, good point. And I said, yeah, I know. Right. Um, yeah, you know, again, uh, I voted for it. Um, other people can, I can't, um, it's let's.

Bill (59:01.988)
Yeah, I know. Thank you. Have a great day.

Mike (59:14.601)
stop stigmatizing it and making it illegal and boosting the black market. And, you know, Jesus Christ, people, you know, grow up.

Bill (59:23.318)
Right. Yeah, and I mean, I don't care one way or the other. I mean, the only thing that I don't like is I don't, I don't want to be wafted with, I don't want to be wafted with anything, okay? You know, and I don't care if it's, you know, I can walk past a lilac bush and for whatever reason, that smell is, it affects me. It's kind of an allergy type of thing. Bless you, Chris. Ha ha ha. Yeah, all of our listeners just said, bless you into their listening devices.

Mike (59:34.047)
Mm. Yeah.

Mike (59:45.829)
Bless you, Chris.

Mike (59:51.393)
All of our listeners just said bless you.

Bill (59:55.547)
But no, I mean, I guess I don't really care. And from the medical side of things, I know that people, I've never looked at it weird. You know what I mean? I know it helps with what? Glaucoma, sometimes cancer patients.

Mike (01:00:02.252)
Mm-mm.

Sure. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely, you know, if you're going through chemo, it's going to help with the nausea and it's going to give you an appetite. Hey kids, the munchies, right?

Bill (01:00:11.434)
Right? Yeah, I guess the only thing that'll piss me off is if I ever get to the point where they're like, you could smoke weed over here to make you feel better and I'm not, I can't, I might get pissed then, but. Yeah. But probably won't. Yeah, I just, I don't know. There's some sort of, well, you're the one that brought it up to whatever medication they were trying to give mom the, you know, before she had passed away, you said it sounded like some sort of synthetic.

Mike (01:00:22.481)
Mm-hmm. Yes, right.

Right.

Mike (01:00:37.461)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (01:00:38.998)
So I'm sure they have the same, you can probably take a pill with the same, basically the same effects I would assume, so.

Mike (01:00:43.889)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, pretty much. They're not actually quite as good from what I've heard and Yeah, you know, whatever man. I mean I'm sitting, you know, I'm sitting down here to resort. There's goddamn booze everywhere There's also weed everywhere. There's also you know, I Who cares man? They can I can't Yeah, that's all

Mike (01:01:11.839)
Mm-mm.

Bill (01:01:15.175)
Right. Yeah.

Mike (01:01:20.145)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:01:29.197)
Uh huh. Yeah. Again, if you can go have a couple of pops or smoke a joint or whatever, and you know, take care of your kids. Good. Do it.

Bill (01:01:36.578)
Right? Yeah, that didn't, just as a side note in case anyone forgot, that didn't work for either one of us, just so you know. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, I tried for a number of years. Okay, so two more questions. This is question number six. It says make a mission statement for 2024. What is it? Now, I don't know if she means personally or I would, or as a podcast.

Mike (01:01:44.425)
No. Nope. God knows we tried.

Mike (01:01:55.941)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:02:02.763)
Uh-huh.

Bill (01:02:06.25)
Since you sent this into us, I would think it would be a podcast mission statement because I don't make resolutions. I don't make resolutions. And I'll make fucking mission statements personally ever, you know, if I want to make a change, if I want to make a mission statement, I'll make one today or I'll make one on June 2nd, you know, I don't need a new year for it, but so yeah. What about like from a podcast standpoint, if we had to have a mission statement, what's our, what would we like to see happen in 2024?

Mike (01:02:07.587)
Mmm.

Mike (01:02:11.233)
Okay. Right. Mm-mm. No, right.

Mike (01:02:22.885)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (01:02:34.697)
Um, well, I'd like to be able to quit my job and do this full time. No. Um, yes. Um, right. Oh, not seriously, just, you know, um, we've talked about it so many times, as long as we're having fun and, um, you know, there's one or two people out there that are having fun with us. Fuck it. We'll keep going. Um, yes, it would be nice, you know, more people, um, hell we already talked about it, you know, like share, subscribe. That's it.

Bill (01:02:40.442)
Second, second that.

Mike (01:03:04.077)
Yeah, you know, grow this little thing. That's all. But we're, we're sure as hell not going to change anything and we're not going to, we're not going to do a damn thing different. We're just going to keep swearing and talking about recovery.

Bill (01:03:16.858)
Yeah, the only thing that we that we have talked about, we've been talking about this for a year, is, you know, trying to do the episodes where we can make them sort of, they're still recorded, but we can make them live where people can actually call in. But it's got to be, I think it's got to be from a computer, not a phone. We got to figure out some logistics. But we, we're not doing that. We think it'd be fun. We might mess around with the, with the video side of it every once in a while. But I don't know, I

Mike (01:03:29.783)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:03:35.13)
All right.

Mike (01:03:39.807)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:03:43.566)
Right?

Bill (01:03:44.138)
I watched some of these fucking video podcasts, very, very few. Oh, that's the other statistic that I read. Out of all the podcasts out there, only 17%, 17 are doing video. That's it. And I'm like, that kind of blew my mind. But the podcasts that are out there that have videos, all it is, it reminds me of a fucking work beating. People are just standing there looking at each other. And I'm like, I don't know. I mean,

Mike (01:03:47.425)
Mmm. Yeah.

Mike (01:04:00.227)
Right.

Mike (01:04:07.697)
Hehe

Bill (01:04:10.658)
Granted, we do have a YouTube channel. I've been posting our audio episodes now on YouTube. I don't know, it might be something to fuck with just to get some video clips and whatever, but I don't know. I know, I just did. You know what? Maybe we can get a couple of hookers in here every once in a while. Ha ha ha. Yes, wait, okay, there's our mission statement. More hookers. Ha ha ha.

Mike (01:04:15.109)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (01:04:20.469)
Yeah, but nobody wants to look at us, man.

Mike (01:04:27.765)
Mmm! Hehehehehehehehehehe

Mmm, more hookers!

Bill (01:04:38.562)
Yeah, there you go, Megan. That's our mission statement. More, more hookers. No, no, seriously. Yeah, right. But, you know, I look at if it had to be for the podcast, I look at the podcast the same I look at my work life and my recovery life in general is I want to be able to I want to be able to help people and have fun while I'm doing it. And that's exactly what you said, you know, in literally that's, you know, I, as I interview should for jobs, people like, why do you want this type of job? I want to help people. And you know, it's something I really enjoy. If I could put those two things together.

Mike (01:04:40.633)
Yeah, there you go. All right, we're done with that question.

Mike (01:04:52.24)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mike (01:05:07.025)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Doesn't get much better than that.

Bill (01:05:08.276)
It's a fucking win, you know?

Right, and I mean, look at you, you're literally moving the economy on a daily basis. So there you go. That's a fact. It is a fact. But okay, so last one, question number seven. Did you wait to have, and she puts it in quotes, relations with a partner for the first year of sobriety, why or why not? So first of all, both of us have been completely open and vocal about this. Um, go first though.

Mike (01:05:17.582)
Mmm. Hehehehehehe. It is.

Mike (01:05:31.147)
Mm. Mm!

He's not over.

Mike (01:05:40.051)
Mm-hmm.

No, yeah, I waited five years and it was a fucking disaster. Right. Yeah. You know, right. And, um, you know, I, I was ready. Well, hell I was ready, you know, two weeks after putting the bottle down. Um, right. But of course I wasn't ready. Um, yeah, you know, I, like I said, I, I waited, uh, it didn't happen for five years and when it did, it was wrong. And, um,

Bill (01:05:44.158)
Right.

Mike (01:06:09.217)
I'm very grateful that I waited that long because my foundation was really fucking solid and my support group was really fucking solid and it didn't phase my sobriety one little bit. You know, it wasn't easy, it wasn't fun, but my sobriety was never in question going through that. So there's my answer.

Bill (01:06:31.35)
Right. And I mean, same deal. I think mine was like two years in, I think. And that is one rule that had, just to be really fucking clear, I would have broken the shit out of that rule had I had the opportunity. So I did not follow that rule because it was a rule. I followed that rule because I didn't have the opportunity. There, I said it. That's it. That's it. Yeah. But

Mike (01:06:37.745)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:06:44.049)
Mm-hm. Oh, God, yeah. Yep.

Mike (01:06:55.669)
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. So, I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and

Bill (01:07:01.25)
But it's, you know, in the thing of it is, and I mean, obviously, I mean, well, I think everyone knows, Mike knows everything about me and he knows my ups and downs. And I've been open about the fact that I have not had a long-term relationship since I've been sober. It doesn't mean I haven't spent time with people, but here's the thing, you know, and I've had some, I've made some bad decisions, you know, that, you know, that I'm, a couple I'm not proud of and a couple I'm,

Mike (01:07:16.782)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:07:29.814)
the decisions I made were, they were not great decisions. They were not decisions that should have come out of a sober mind, let's put it that way. You know, but same deal. None of these things, I've had my heart broken, I've had it stepped on, I've had all those different things happen. You know, but every single person that I've spent any amount of time with, if I saw them today, I wouldn't cross the street. You know, I would have a conversation. One or two might be a little uncomfortable or weird.

Mike (01:07:38.082)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (01:07:54.902)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Bill (01:07:58.998)
You know, but, you know, I just, that's the difference in my relationship life, if you want to put it that way, between now and before I quit drinking. So before I quit drinking, and even after I got sober, I mean, we talk about mending relationships. The big relationships I had to mend were the two biggest women in my life. Those were my ex-wives. The ones that I shouldn't have shit on, and I did. You know, and...

Mike (01:07:59.21)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:08:10.586)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:08:20.869)
Right.

Mike (01:08:25.093)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:08:26.43)
And it took years to put those relationships back together. And I guess I'm grateful that didn't happen. But to go back to the original thing, yes, both of us waited, neither of us wanted to. We, I think, would have fucked anything that walked through. Oh, do you remember that who do you know meeting, that chick that walked in that one time? Ha ha ha. Yeah, so who do you know was a men's meeting, I'm sorry, is.

Mike (01:08:44.744)
No, I don't remember it at all. Jesus Christ, man. Smoke show.

Mike (01:08:54.)
is

Bill (01:08:55.39)
It was, it was our home group and you know, theoretically it's, it always will be. But, um, so every Friday night we went there and it was again, basement of a church and, um, all the old timers that we always talk about were there and, you know, smallish room, you know, but always full and yeah, this, this it, it's a summertime too, so this chick comes in. I don't remember what type of shirt she was wearing, but she had like these short jeans shorts on, so she walks.

Mike (01:08:58.097)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:04.933)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:10.197)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:20.089)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:09:21.646)
Down the stairs and up the aisle all the way to the podium. So she's walking by Everyone and you hear every the fucking room got fucking deadly quiet And she's like is this only a men's meeting or can I stay and all the guys are just like that we're just They're going yeah, you can fucking say you can fucking say you can fucking say

Mike (01:09:25.54)
Mm-hmm. Yup.

Mike (01:09:32.209)
Hinden Drop.

Mike (01:09:38.577)
Hehehehehehe

Mike (01:09:42.125)
Yeah, right. Well, cause I mean, yeah, what you and I were, uh, you know, four months over, maybe, right. Right.

Bill (01:09:46.83)
Oh yeah, if that, if that. Oh yes, what you said. Yeah, she was, as my buddy Dean used to say, she was donut grease hot. She was. But yeah, so anyhow, we would have, yeah, we would have if we could have, but we didn't, so we didn't. All right, so and then once again, Megan signed this, deuces, crazy Megan. So crazy Megan, thank you very much. And yeah.

Mike (01:09:57.325)
Wow! Yes she was!

Mike (01:10:06.99)
Right.

Mike (01:10:15.76)
Thank you.

Bill (01:10:16.286)
So yeah, whenever we had Michael on, cause literally she emailed this to me like four minutes before we went on with Michael. And I was just like, God damn, it's like this long little things here, but that was good. So DC questions, huh?

Mike (01:10:26.375)
Uh huh.

Mike (01:10:30.833)
Absolutely. Thank you. And you know, for all the other listeners out there, if you want to hear more of this wonderful stuff, you send us some questions and we'll certainly tack, we'll tackle them, knock them to the ground and beat them with a baseball bat.

Bill (01:10:32.141)
Yes.

Bill (01:10:37.974)
Yeah, motherfuckers. Right, and that's what, yeah, we go back to what we were saying before is, I don't know what more we could do. I mean, I said that kind of jokingly, but seriously, I do, I put that up on Instagram all the time. We have a little thing where you can leave us a voicemail now if you wanna talk a question in there, if you want to send us anything, message it, email, whatever you wanna do, man, because we will, even if it's something we talked about. Okay, so again.

Mike (01:10:51.344)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:10:54.587)
Yeah, I know.

Mike (01:10:58.873)
Right?

Mike (01:11:05.753)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:11:06.494)
all you fucking people out there that send me like 70,000 memes. Okay? One every seventh meme send a question in there. But no, don't stop sending the memes because I fucking love them and I post them all over the place. But the questions will be cool too. So okay. So I think we beat the shit out of that one. But okay. So this one, I know the response to this, but I...

Mike (01:11:11.4)
Hehe

Mike (01:11:16.642)
Yeah, right.

Mike (01:11:21.745)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:11:28.429)
We did.

Bill (01:11:35.526)
I want to kind of take this as a, I want to tell you the whole background story of this person who was talking about it, okay? I think this was, this might've been, oh yeah, yeah. It was, this was Matt, a Sober Friends podcast episode. So he had this chick on there that had a sponsor, ended up having a male sponsor. She was in AA, ended up taking on a male sponsor. And that was like the title of the episode, you know.

Mike (01:11:59.193)
Mm-hmm. Hmm. Bye.

Bill (01:12:02.282)
She did what was not supposed to happen, took on a male sponsor, blah, blah. So first of all, and again, I'm not gonna jump the route here, but what's your opinion on, or the opinion of the group on having a sponsor of the opposite sex? Let's start there first. Ha ha ha.

Mike (01:12:15.697)
Hehehehe. Um, right. Well, what did we just say? If we had the opportunity, um, hehehehe, we would have taken it. Right. Clearly there are exceptions to every rule. Um, and um, yeah, but I mean, for the most part, right, we're supposed to stay with our own. Um, you know, I've often wondered, well, you know, what about, uh,

Bill (01:12:25.337)
Right.

Mike (01:12:43.717)
the men and women playing for the other team. I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, that's gotta get a little strange too. Um, I mean, if you're both playing for that team, um, that's gotta be a little weird too. I would think, you know, um, if I were a gay man, maybe it would be better for me to have a straight female sponsor. Um, you know, I don't know. I don't know. Um, just, you know, again, the way we were taught was, you know,

Yeah, if you're a guy, you get a guy. If you're a girl, you get a girl. Um, and it seems to make sense that is the. The safest way, no other way to put it. Um, no, cause I mean, you know, yes. Um, you could be taken advantage of and you may want to be taken advantage of. And it's not what we're supposed to be fucking thinking about that first year or so, and, uh, you know, and that's not what we're looking for.

Um, you know, they're not supposed to buy you cigarettes. They're not supposed to get you a job of any kind hand blow, whatever. Um, right. So yeah, that's an, I want to sponsor for sponsors supposed to work you through the steps. That's all they're supposed to do. And, um, and the 13th is not in there. So yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a general rule, right? You know, um, men go with men, women go with women, but clearly there are exceptions.

Bill (01:13:44.831)
Hahaha! Yeah!

Bill (01:13:58.27)
Right, right.

Bill (01:14:06.858)
Yeah, so I think I've listened to, if not all of their episodes, I've listened to most of them. And I've been very open about this, please, Matt's a friend of ours. He was on here, we consider him a friend. Stover Friends podcast, listen to it. I mean, he's a good dude. So more than happy to promote him. But so I listened to it, because I would have anyhow, but it kind of caught my eye. And I'm like, let's see what this shit's all about. So when she first came in,

Mike (01:14:13.263)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:24.346)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:31.461)
Right. Yeah, right.

Bill (01:14:35.758)
and you know kind of a wild child type of thing from everything she was saying. She went sponsorless for I think she said eight or nine months or something like that okay. Went to a meeting it was you know a lot of old timers and stuff like that she was going to the meeting she was doing all the work and stuff like that. You know but didn't have a sponsor and she had gone I don't know they went to her and a bunch of people from the group which a lot of them you know again men and women long.

Mike (01:14:38.662)
Hmm.

Mike (01:14:52.25)
Mm-hmm

Bill (01:15:04.082)
old-timers men and women in the meeting. However, what she came in and laid down her bag and there was a book in there and he's like, he's like, hey, what's that? She's like, I bought a book on how to work the steps. She's like, I can't seem to get a sponsor. So I'm just gonna have to work this shit on my own. And he said, he goes, I'll be your sponsor. And this guy had, again, 20, probably 20 issue years I've guessed and I forget, they might have said it. But she's like, you do that? And he says, yes. He goes, you can't go without a sponsor. I want to help you. But here's the rules, okay?

Mike (01:15:06.382)
Uh-huh.

Mike (01:15:15.758)
Mmm.

Mike (01:15:25.361)
Sure.

Mike (01:15:32.773)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:15:32.934)
So they only met at the, it was like, let's say it was at a church. He said they only met there. They never met anywhere else. You know, never met, her coffee never did anything like that. Did all their work at that place. You know, out in the open, he was married, his wife knew who she was, all that sort of thing. So that was the number one. And then she said that this lady, she said that she actually almost got this, not even almost, did get this backlash from a lot of the females at the meeting.

Mike (01:15:38.565)
Mm-hmm, right?

Right.

Mike (01:15:48.081)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:16:01.282)
Mm-mm.

Bill (01:16:02.022)
It was kind of like in Cleveland, all the women go to, let's say, Dolly. All the men go to, all the groups said, who do you know, for instance. Let's just say that's the thing. But still, this one female goes to the guy in, who do you know? And then the Dolly's group, or those women, got all, I mean, literally pissed at her. And we're almost treating her like shit. And I'm like, well, that's fucked up.

Mike (01:16:07.61)
Right?

Mike (01:16:11.589)
Sure.

Mike (01:16:20.689)
Hmm?

Mike (01:16:24.193)
Well, my question to them is where the fuck were they? Why didn't they step up to the first goddamn place and help this girl? Yeah. What the fuck man? Shut up. Yeah.

Bill (01:16:32.394)
Right, exactly. So she is, at the time they recorded this, she's got 18 years, again, uninterrupted sobriety, so she's not young in this thing, worked her ass off, did all these different things. Now, here's the thing, and I'm glad you brought it up. She's brought up the same thing, is that she has sponsored women who are lesbians. So she's like, same deal, okay? But then after talking about her experience, all that stuff, she's like, okay, but now let me just...

Mike (01:16:41.861)
Mm hmm. Right.

Mike (01:16:55.075)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:17:01.782)
get this out there because it's important. I don't recommend anything I just told you. I don't recommend anything I did. That's not the way it should work. Yes, it worked fine for me. Don't do it, do it the way this, and it was so cool. Because again, the concept, how we were taught, makes sense and it does, but she explained all these things again, as you would look at it through this AA window saying all this fucking shit is wrong. And then at the end, she's like, don't do anything I did.

Mike (01:17:06.529)
Right? Uh huh. Right? Mm hmm.

Yeah.

Mike (01:17:19.694)
Of course.

Mike (01:17:28.361)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:17:31.87)
I got lucky because this guy was cool. I could handle him, whatever the case was. And this all worked out for me. But don't do it.

Mike (01:17:34.578)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:17:40.845)
Right, right. So she found the one man with pure intentions in the world. Ha ha ha.

Bill (01:17:46.242)
Right. Yeah. And, and, and you know what? She's, she's 18 fucking years sober, you know? And it's got her, she had a great story. I mean, just in, you know, how, how she came through and stuff like that, it was, it was good to listen to. But in, and I knew what the answer was going to be and I knew what my answer was going to be. But then she threw all this stuff in. I still don't feel any different about, I wouldn't tell anyone. Yeah, go ahead. Go grab, grab yourself a, you know, right. Exactly. Yeah.

Mike (01:17:52.067)
Exactly.

Mm-hmm. I bet.

Mike (01:18:07.349)
Of course. Well, neither did she. Right. Yeah. But yeah, like I said, man, there's always an exception to the rule, but God damn, yeah, don't think you're going to be that exception because you're not.

Bill (01:18:16.566)
Hahaha

Bill (01:18:22.25)
Yeah, it's, yeah, and once again, a woman with 18 years of really good sobriety and a good head on our shoulders just said, don't do anything that we just talked about. So yeah, don't do that. Okay, so last one in this one, this one's just kind of a stupid one, okay? This came from God grant me, okay? Today, I think this was, yeah, it had to have been from the action.

Mike (01:18:31.789)
Right. Yep.

Mike (01:18:37.673)
No right, I'm ready for that.

Mike (01:18:43.651)
Uh-huh.

Bill (01:18:47.534)
Today I will write down three times I have touched somebody with my light. What?

Mike (01:18:56.33)
Hmm

Bill (01:18:57.09)
Okay, fuck it. So here we go. In parentheses, and I wrote where I was from, but in parentheses, I wrote this as my note to myself, okay, and I just answered my own question. I said, this is juvenile. I'm just seeing, okay, wait, I'm just seeing if I can get through it without laughing and seeing what Mike will say. Now, I got through one sentence before I laughed, okay? Cause you're like, hmm.

Mike (01:18:59.025)
Hehehe

Mike (01:19:05.71)
Mm-hmm.

Haha.

Right, of course.

Mike (01:19:15.505)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehe

Mm-hmm. Hehehehehehe.

Bill (01:19:23.01)
But yeah, so the way it ends is what happened? Did I feel the power of my gift of recovery coming through? And I'm just like, I know. I'm like, damn, that's fucking filthy. I gotta write this down. But yeah, I just, I did a copy and paste and threw it into notes on my phone. But literally my note in parentheses is just saying, this is juvenile, just seeing if I can get through it without laughing and see what Mike will say. So, okay, cool.

Mike (01:19:29.361)
Jesus. Haha

Mike (01:19:35.177)
It is! Oh yeah!

Mike (01:19:42.691)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:19:48.207)
Mm-hmm. Oh. Mm-hmm. Oh.

Bill (01:19:50.698)
was once again, apparently I know you. I seriously, I thought I could at least get through the whole thing without laughing, but it didn't happen. So. Well, that's the.

Mike (01:19:57.597)
No, of course not. And I couldn't let you get through the whole thing. Can I touch you with my light?

Bill (01:20:09.215)
I'm going to write it down. Only three times that I've touched someone with my light? But then again, what happened and did I feel the power of my gift of recovery coming through?

Mike (01:20:13.668)
Right! Come on!

Mike (01:20:24.174)
Mm-hmm. Over and over and over again.

Bill (01:20:29.5)
There. Yes, I just shot my light all over it. There we go. Okay, you know what? Why don't you... Let's wrap this up. You get to get back to vacation. All right, man. Your turn.

Mike (01:20:37.78)
Eheh

Let's please. All right. Well, thank you very much for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. Um, you know, take the time out of my vacation. I'm glad you were here with us and, um, you know, as always be kind to each other, be good to each other, do something nice for somebody else this week. Now it is time kids. It is that time.

It is time for you to Vete a la mierda and then go to a gate with a sign on it saying Vete a la mierda Climb over that gate Dream the impossible dream and keep

OH

Mike (01:21:30.372)
Stop doing it! Forever.

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehe

Bill (01:21:38.586)
That's perfect. I was muted and laughing my ass off and I was gonna leave it because I'm letting this fucker play through but then you're like, ah, it's not working.

Mike (01:21:43.313)
Hehehehe

Mike (01:21:49.487)
It's not working hang on one more last time just for everybody Which of course is fuck off in Spanish

Bill (01:21:53.13)
Yeah

Bill (01:21:58.794)
Oh, that's fucking hilarious. That's awesome. But yeah, it was just, as you started to read that, you paused. I thought you were fumbling to find your phone to do the reading and whatever. But so yeah, that was better than anything I would have hoped for or expected. So, yeah. All right, man. So you guys, how long you were there? You were coming back what, next Tuesday? Oh, Wednesday. Okay, cool.

Mike (01:22:11.217)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:22:15.853)
Hehe

Mike (01:22:24.953)
Wednesday. Yep.

Bill (01:22:28.086)
Yeah, I'm actually gonna head up to Wisconsin tomorrow and go have lunch with Derek. And then Christmas Eve, we're doing this enchanted thing. It's like a wintery lights thing. It's so. No, no. So yeah, me, Kathy, Kylie, Kimmy, Brian and Ali. It's this whole thing at this park in Franklin, but that's not till obviously next, next Sunday. But.

Mike (01:22:34.033)
Cool.

Mike (01:22:42.664)
Wait, wait, are you gonna touch anyone with those lights? Ah, damn!

Mike (01:22:52.401)
Cool.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (01:22:57.866)
Yeah, so I'm not gonna see Derek, I don't think, that day because he's got stuff going on with Katie. So I figured, fuck it, I'll take a run up there and have lunch with him. Katie's working, but yeah. So all right, so that's a whole lot about nothing. But anyhow, I think we're done. So you know what? I love you, brother. All right, and I will talk to you later. Bye.

Mike (01:23:05.562)
Nice.

Mike (01:23:11.771)
I think we are. I love you too.

Mike (01:23:17.009)
Adios!

Bill (01:23:18.062)
Ha ha ha.