SoberNotMature - Episode 96 (Leave It On The Steps Ya Filthy Animals)

Bill (00:02.252)
All right, everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature, and we, you know, it's the weekend of Christmas, right? So, yeah, we brought everyone a present, so you know what it is?

Mike (00:09.024)
Mmm.

Yeah, yeah it is. It's us.

Bill (00:22.693)
Yeah, it sure is. I figured you'd come up with it. If you didn't come up with that, I was going to be surprised. But yeah, so everyone out there in podcast listening land, so mature listening land, Merry fucking Christmas. This is us. Yeah. So yeah, filthy animals. Yeah, by the way, I watched what Christmas movies? Oh, I watched Christmas Vacation already. That one I actually paid for years ago. So it's in my library.

Mike (00:34.826)
Right, and a happy fucking New Year.

Heheheheheheh!

Mike (00:47.489)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (00:50.942)
Eww!

Bill (00:51.3)
Um, whatever it was, you know, it was like 10 years ago, probably that I spent like, you know, 13 or $14 on it and I watch it every year or so it's paid for itself, you know? And then, um, we have, uh, Kimmy and I share, uh, Disney, I think it's through our Verizon account is where we get it. So I watched, um, Home Alone 1, the next night I watched Home Alone 2 and I watched, uh, Bad Santa. Have you seen Bad Santa? Yeah.

Mike (00:56.087)
Right?

Mmm. Yeah. Right.

Mike (01:09.814)
Right?

Mike (01:14.399)
oooo

Mike (01:17.726)
Oh yeah. Yeah. I used to watch it. Well, when I was still drinking, I watched it every Christmas Eve.

Bill (01:21.776)
Right? It was, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I knew all about the movie and I've probably seen it at least two or three more times, you know, but yeah, fucking crack, I can laugh my ass off, man. It just, he's a trip. He's a trip, but yeah, there was, I don't know, there was another one I was going to watch. I can't remember. Oh, Scrooge is one that I watch every once in a while with Bill Murray, which cracks me up. Who's the...

Mike (01:32.501)
Uh-huh.

Mike (01:39.745)
Yep.

Mike (01:48.862)
Right? And David Johansson of the New York dolls. That's right. Yeah. He's the cat. He's the cab drivers. It goes to Christmas past.

Bill (01:51.12)
Yeah, so who's... Is it really?

Bill (01:58.72)
Oh fuck, I didn't know that. Okay, I mean I know who he is, but I didn't know. Okay, I gotcha, I gotcha.

Mike (02:00.598)
Eh, right. Yeah. Buster Poindexter for you kids out there. Yeah. Kids, right.

Bill (02:09.153)
Right. So who is the chick that is the almost like the Tinkerbell type of lady? I don't know what her Is okay. Yeah, she fucking cracks me up that whole character cracks me up the whole movie is funny, but uh But yeah, so maybe that's one that i'll I don't know Well, if I get a chance between today and tomorrow, maybe i'll watch that but uh, yeah anyhow

Mike (02:17.326)
They're okay.

Mike (02:23.27)
Yeah.

Mike (02:30.706)
I personally have not watched any Christmas movies, because it's not fucking Christmas yet.

Bill (02:35.644)
Well, and you know what the thing of it is, is it didn't really have a plan like I need to watch these, but Christmas Vacation just popped into my head and then I'm like, ooh, the Home Alone movies. And I don't know, I laugh my ass off at those every time. Again, I don't know how many fucking times I've seen it, but seeing Daniel Stern and Joe Pesci just get the shit beat out of them. It's fucking hilarious. It's the nut shots, you know, it's the everything, all the nut shots fucking crack me up.

Mike (02:55.37)
Right. It is. Right.

So you're saying that dick humor cracks you up. Our Instagram followers would never know that.

Bill (03:08.353)
Right, it does. It does, yeah. It, you know.

I know. Yeah. So from whatever it was, you know, as old as I needed to be when I knew what dick humor is or was to 55 years old, yeah, it fucking cracks me up. So, I mean, we got we got a lot of shit to talk about. Obviously, we've got the reading. We're going to talk about the 12 step because we haven't done that yet this month. I have two kind of announcements. I'll wait. I'll wait till after the break. There of Liswell. There are people who we've had on as guests that have a couple of things going on that I want to talk about.

Mike (03:20.354)
Hehehehe... Uh-huh.

Mike (03:27.391)
We do.

Mike (03:32.002)
Right?

Mike (03:36.979)
Mmm.

Mike (03:40.244)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's what we call in the biz a tease.

Bill (03:43.476)
Just, yeah, it is. Yeah, you fuckers gotta hang out for a little while. So, cause I, you know, I was thinking about bringing all this shit up to begin with it. I'm like, now let's, we, the same way as we start our day, let's get this fucking reading out of the way and this fucking step out of the way. Yeah, we got more shit too. So, okay. Yeah, always.

Mike (03:56.138)
Right. Yeah, let's do it. All right. We do always constantly. All right. Yeah, this is, you know, Christmas. We'll talk about some gifts a little bit. This is November 29th. So, however many days ago that was, about a month or so. Develop an interest in life. The world is so rich.

simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself. Henry Miller, he got to fuck Marilyn Monroe. Did I do this one already?

Bill (04:40.452)
Um, I, you know what? I don't know if you did. I, if you, if you did, you, you sure as fuck know I forgot about it. I could have read that this morning. So no, it's, it's about gifts. So no, go ahead. I mean, it doesn't sound like super familiar to me. So I think we're good.

Mike (04:40.558)
it.

Mike (04:46.862)
Right.

Mike (04:54.086)
All right, cool. Many of us found that during our active addiction, our lives seem to get smaller. We put our time and energy into alcohol and or drugs and drugs and, or drugs and hung around people, places and things that supported our addiction. No wonder we got bored early in our recovery. We put most of our time and energy into learning how to stay sober.

We need to practice putting the basics of recovery to work in our lives. Once we get the hang of living sober, we can develop other interests too. Gifts. That is the great thing about being in recovery. It means that we can put some of our energy into enjoying hobbies and new experiences. We need only look at the old timers in our recovery groups. They have fun. Some love music or skiing or motorcycles.

Others write stories, act or design stage sets in community theaters. The world opens up to us when we are sober. Let's enjoy it. Prayer for the day. Higher power, help me to stretch and try new things. Help me to discover the things that bring me joy and help me get moving and go do them. Today's action. It says actions because this is a program of action. Today, I will list 10 things I like to do.

I will circle the ones I have not done in the last six months. I will then list 10 new things I want to try. I will talk with my sponsor about both of my lists.

Bill (06:29.728)
All right, so for the rest of the episode, we're gonna write down, grab your pens and paper, boys and girls. But yeah, was that 10 things that we'd like to do and 10 things, what, new things? Wow, okay. Well, and again, I suppose, you know what, if we were new, one of our sponsors in our lives or one of the people would have said, hey, what are you willing to do? And we would have sat down with a fucking pencil and paper and wrote down, you know.

Mike (06:35.018)
Hehe

Mike (06:39.871)
Right.

Mike (06:45.689)
Yeah. Right.

Mike (06:55.946)
Mm-hmm.

right. Not a written down five and then, you know, well that's about it, man. Cause I'm fucking old and boring, but yes.

Bill (06:59.472)
all these fucking things but uh...

Bill (07:05.553)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I don't like anything other than these five things. And as far as new things, I can't think of anything. Well, right. Can we just, can they be sexual things? Because I get, I can. All right. See, there we go. There's me manipulating the words of recovery. But hey, can they be sex things? Eh?

Mike (07:11.781)
Exactly.

Right, here's two or three.

Mike (07:20.432)
Yeah, they could be, hey, they didn't specify.

Mike (07:27.523)
Hehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (07:32.062)
Great.

Bill (07:32.928)
I'm sure I can think of 10 of those goddamn things. But anyhow, I die. Ha ha ha. I wasn't sure where you're going with Pepper because I was about to say, what? What, Pepper, what? All right, so anyhow, we both digress apparently. So, and again, I don't know if you read that one anytime recently, but I mean, it's all good stuff. And especially it talks about the gifts and the things we get back. But the first thing before you enunciated the word throbbing.

Mike (07:35.222)
Uh-huh. A little pepper in our diet. I read that somewhere once.

Mike (07:43.562)
Hehe

Mike (07:47.815)
Yes we did.

Mike (07:55.564)
Right.

Mike (08:03.122)
Mm-hmm. Hehe

Bill (08:03.18)
Um, which I was muted at that time and I laughed and then, then you, then you fucking ask me a question. I'm like, Oh fuck, I'm sitting there. I'm kicked back. I'm having a sip of coffee and I'm like, Oh shit mute button. But, um, so the first thing though that I wrote down was interest in life. I think that was in that first opening paragraph. And then, um, you know, our lives become, uh, smaller addiction in addiction. We got bored. Um,

Mike (08:07.53)
Right, I know you did.

Mike (08:13.23)
Thank you.

Mike (08:20.334)
Mm-hmm. Right?

Mike (08:27.41)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (08:30.564)
energy to do new experiences or to try new experiences. And then the last thing that I wrote down was the world opens up to us, which that's the one that, I mean, no shit, but really the world does, you know? Because, you know, I think about that, you know, back to getting bored and, you know, our lives were, you know, we're smaller and all that stuff and then everything opening up to us. But think about that. And I just think about the last, I don't know, let's say the last.

Mike (08:42.102)
Yeah. Hehehehehehehehe.

Mike (08:53.462)
Right.

Bill (08:58.82)
even seven or eight months, because I'll before I got sober and you know, I, I went to work and I saw Derek on like Thursday night and then every other weekend. It was a buddy of mine that I'd hang out with and you know, drink with every once in a while. But other than that, it was just then I sat home by myself and you know, fucking drank and in stewed on everything. And I was just not only was my world small, my mind was small and I was just as fucking miserable.

Mike (09:12.654)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (09:16.526)
Right? Yep.

Bill (09:28.232)
You know, now, okay, so these days for the last year and a half, I work remotely, you know, so I don't even go to work, you know, like leave. I drive my car at a minimum probably twice a week, maybe three times a week, you know, up to Wisconsin, this and that, that sort of thing. But I mean, I do, I still spend a lot of time by myself technically. But I mean, my world is not small anymore, you know.

Mike (09:38.262)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Mike (09:52.598)
Yeah?

Mike (09:56.741)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (09:57.084)
I mean, even if you take in, yeah, social media is a fucking pain in the ass. No offense to all our followers. I love all you guys, but you know, it is, it's, it's a lot of work. And I think anyone even on a, on a personal level would admit that. So, you know, it is what it is, but it's, it's expanded this, this world in this sober universe to us. And then there's this, and then just having the chance of, you know, taking a drive up, you know, like driving up, up to Wisconsin and back or.

Mike (10:02.765)
Right.

Mike (10:09.133)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (10:23.828)
coming back late at night because I can drive, or anything like that. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it just, all of it.

Mike (10:26.558)
Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Well, right. So Chris and I are laying on the beach this past week, right? And she leans over to me and she's all, you remember our first date when you said you weren't much of a beach person? And I said, yeah, so I'm glad that changed. I said, yeah, me too. Right. You know, exactly. I wasn't. I...

Bill (10:43.188)
Hahaha!

Bill (10:49.705)
Right.

Mike (10:53.782)
Wasn't a big fan of going and laying in the sand and getting sun and all that stuff. I fucking love it now. You know, I didn't like it cause you know, um, anytime I did it before there was drinking involved and you know, I'd get all sweaty and drunk and stupid. And wasn't any fun. Guess what? Shit's fun again.

Bill (11:15.644)
Right? And I'm the same way. I'm not really, I don't know that I've ever, well, okay, again, like where Kathy and Mark used to live when they were together, they lived a few blocks off the beach and they had the boat. And we go down to the beach in Lake Michigan and we go out on a boat and that sort of thing. But it was a purpose that we were doing that. We were down there, we were drinking and doing whatever. But Kathy used to always go down there. She'd just go down to the beach by herself, take the dog. They had a German Shepherd, Ziggy, at the time. She would take him down to the beach. She would just sit there.

Mike (11:24.686)
Mm hmm. Right.

Mike (11:40.017)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bill (11:45.756)
and read. And at that time I'm like, kind of like, whatever the fuck you do, you do it. I don't know. You know, I was nothing against it. It was just wasn't my thing. Or, you know, again, go back to that trip that I took. I'm fucking running around chasing sunsets and I'm going to see things. I mean, I'm not a hiker, but I took a hike and I would do it again because I'm like, this shit is so fucking beautiful. Where was I coming back from? Oh, when I came back from...

Mike (11:46.923)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (11:52.056)
Right?

Mike (12:04.351)
Hehe

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Bill (12:15.148)
When I was down to Columbus when I came back from there and you know is the is the Sun was going down on my way back? And and I'm on this you know kind of because from the Columbus area getting back here it I purposely did it I kind of took about back roads, but you know back road ish cuz I'm like I the same thing Okay, let's that's another thing. I take different roads these days because I want to just see some shit, you know And there was this fucking killer

Mike (12:21.997)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:29.612)
Right.

Mike (12:36.93)
Hmm. Right.

Bill (12:42.92)
sunset the sun was down but this glow on the horizon yeah i'm trying to find some place i get this fucking car behind me this truck in front of me i'm like where can i pull over and take a fucking picture like i can't pull in there i can't pull in there but i'm sitting there for like five minutes and finally i'm like ah fuck it you know because it started to get too dark but that was a goal of mine to try to pull over so i could take a fucking picture

Mike (12:54.368)
Eh?

Mike (12:59.178)
Right.

Mike (13:03.574)
Right? Nah, nah, just fucking enjoy it, man. Fuck the picture. Yeah, have it in your mind. Right.

Bill (13:08.532)
Right? I know. I know. But even if I would have just been able to like stop and just staring at it, when I was a beaver dammit to the same thing, I propped the chair at the end of the driveway and looked at the cornfield and watched the sunset. But but, yeah, so, I mean, all of those little things as far as the world opening up. But, you know, I mean, when just going back to again, the lives getting smaller and.

Mike (13:16.989)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:22.722)
Right. Yeah.

Bill (13:35.112)
you know like you said getting bored and that is I mean you know there's nothing else to do what we just like I guess we'll drink

Mike (13:37.539)
Yeah.

Mike (13:41.462)
Right. Well, yeah, exactly. Well, it was just, you know, yes, we're going to drink and fuck. I mean, as much as we're chasing it and whatever. Yeah, I mean, it did. When we really, especially with the distance we have now, we look back on it. It was fucking boring getting drunk every goddamn night. It was the same thing over and over and over again. And, you know, I mean, it got to the point where we didn't have a fucking choice. We had to do it.

And it was, it was goddamn boring.

Bill (14:12.408)
Right? And a lot of fucking work too. You know? It's a lot of work to, you know, and like you talked about, and I know all of our friends that have talked about, and I mean, all the guests that we've had on here that talk about the amount of work. I mean, when, you know, people that were heavily in the drug use and trying to support that habit and stuff like that, I mean, granted, I was going broke along with everyone else, but, you know, at a little bit of a lower level, because I wasn't spending the kind of money that some people did on, you know, obviously buying drugs. But...

Mike (14:15.518)
Yeah. Heh heh heh.

Mike (14:23.928)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:29.206)
Right? Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:38.818)
Sure. Right.

Bill (14:40.852)
You know, it's still work and it just, I think back now, like you said the one time, you know, enjoy the freedom. And I mean, that's exactly what it is, not having, not being a literally a slave to the disease and the work and the effort and the grind of, you know, staying healthy and drunk and whatever you wanna call it.

Mike (14:53.858)
Alright. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Trying to get fucking well, man. Well, I mean, I've said it a million times in my life, you know, I didn't do drugs the last five, six years I was out there because it was fucking hard work and I'm lazy, you know, unless, unless they were handed to me on a silver platter, I didn't do them because it was way fucking easier to walk to the corner and get what I needed cheap and legally. Yeah.

Bill (15:12.214)
Great.

Bill (15:20.412)
Right? Yeah, and I would have, I don't know, not loved, but having that, I was ashamed. And again, I've talked about it. There was five or six different liquor stores between grocery stores and liquor stores and gas stations that I would go to in this, whatever it was, two, three mile radius, but trying to figure out again, going to the same place. And they still fucking knew me.

Mike (15:32.073)
Oh yeah.

Mike (15:35.598)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:44.219)
Oh, of course. Right. Yeah. You're coming in every Thursday to the stop and shop or whatever. Right. Yeah. Right. You know, you know, and Wednesday you're going to another place. Tuesday you're going to it. Yeah. You know, I mean, towards the end there, I was, you know, the same liquor store because Ohio was fucked up and they've got state stores. But yeah. Oh, yeah. I certainly did it, too. Yeah. Going to different stores because, you know, so nobody knows.

Bill (15:49.713)
Yeah.

Mike (16:12.076)
Hehehehehehe, fucking idiots.

Bill (16:13.012)
Right, I know. Yeah, I know. It just, again, I shake my head now, but I'm glad that I shake my head. But the thing about this too, and we talk about this all the time, is that I'm glad I don't forget yet, and I hope I never do, how much work it was. And yeah, it's one thing to tell a story, but to actually, as we talk about these things, there's certain things that...

Mike (16:22.094)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:32.467)
Mm-hmm, right.

Bill (16:41.552)
I get a weird pit in my stomach or I just remember that, again, the anxiety, and that's what it is. It's the anxiety of what time is it close? Can I get there in time? How much do I have? And because I never, when I hear people talk about running out of booze, I never did that. Never ran out. I mean, fucking ever. But trying to do this math in my head, depending on what, again, if I had to work late or if I did whatever it was, depending on my schedule and

Mike (16:47.894)
Mm-hmm.

Hehehe

Mike (16:56.116)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Right.

Mike (17:07.854)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (17:09.352)
What time is it? Which store opens at eight o'clock in the morning so I could actually go there, grab some booze, run home and still get to work on time. Fucking nuts, just nuts.

Mike (17:17.474)
Yup. Yeah. Goddamn slavery, man. Fuck that shit.

Bill (17:23.376)
Oh it is. Yeah, just fucking terrible. Fucking terrible. So, anything else on that stood out to you or were those the main points?

Mike (17:34.713)
I think we covered it.

Bill (17:35.792)
Okay, so going from, you know, taking to giving this thing away. How do you like that? Huh? Everyone? That was a segue. So, um, yeah, we've, we put it off. I mean, only one week is we had guests the first part of the month, but obviously it's the 12th month and you know, it's the 12th step that we're going to talk about. And, uh, you know, again, it's a few weeks down the road and only a week or so away till the end of the month, but fuck it. You know, it's still.

Mike (17:41.521)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was good. That was.

Bill (18:03.034)
This is one of those steps that keeps on living every god damn day anyhow.

Mike (18:06.258)
Oh yeah, right. Yeah. Definitely one we've got to do on a daily basis. So, all right. Well, oh yes. Step number 12 of alcoholics and anonymous. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all of our affairs.

Bill (18:08.724)
Hahaha, right!

Bill (18:18.036)
Hahaha

Bill (18:31.796)
So the spiritual awakening, well, first of all, and it's funny when, I don't know if you ever heard this in meetings and stuff like that, people would emphasize the result, which it is. And I would just kind of like, when I read step 12, it just as a result, but it does say the result, I think in the step, which it is, having that spiritual awakening. So that's the first question. Did you feel, I don't know, it either at what point,

Mike (18:43.182)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (18:49.347)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (19:00.66)
going through the steps or did you get this flash of a spiritual awakening or have that any flash moment throughout the process? Ha! Okay, there's step 12, we've handled that. Ha ha ha.

Mike (19:08.642)
Nope. There it is. Nope. Absolutely no flashes. No, no singing angels. No bright light. No, none of that crap. Oh, yeah.

Bill (19:18.024)
Hahaha.

Bill (19:23.824)
And I didn't think so, but I couldn't remember. But go ahead.

Mike (19:27.798)
Yeah, no, I've, you know, slowly, you know, and it's still happening. Hopefully, you know, I'm not fully spiritually awake and I probably never will be and that's okay. You know, I'm awakening. Yeah.

Bill (19:46.967)
Ha! Ha ha ha! That's why we're still recovering too. We're not recovered.

Mike (19:49.27)
That's right. That's right. This is none of this shit's past tense, man. None of it. Um, right. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's yes, I, I'm still working on it, but I am, I am certainly more spiritually awake than I was 14 years ago. That's for goddamn sure. Um, yeah, I, yeah, I noticed shit. I'm, you know, hell man. I still go back and forth sometimes, you know.

Bill (19:53.439)
Hehehehe

Mike (20:19.182)
Out on the roads today, I had to go to several stores because I've been out of town for a week, so I had to go get some shit done. And I was like, I got to get out of here. I got out of the house today. I got to get out and get this stuff done before everybody else gets the fuck off of work because, and it was still nuts in every goddamn store I went into. And I'm like, wasn't all that spiritual, but I was certainly trying to practice the principles.

Yeah, and all of those affairs. But yeah, I'm watching people cutting each other off and getting in each other's ways, and happy fucking holidays. Baby Jesus loves you too. But yes, again, even with all of that said, I am still more spiritual than I was 14 years ago. That'll give me an idea how fucked up I was back then.

Bill (21:00.885)
Heheheheh...

Bill (21:15.252)
Well, and the other thing too is that, and the reason I asked that night, I was pretty sure that you didn't have a flash moment, but I couldn't remember at any point through if you did. But there was a time going through, well, first of all, for anyone who doesn't know, it's talked about in the big book that these things happen. And we've talked about it, I know a number of times of the sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly these things happen, right? So and I...

Mike (21:22.222)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (21:31.157)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (21:39.134)
Right? Right.

Bill (21:43.48)
sort of have complained that everything, every fucking thing, not just in my recovery, but in my life since I've gotten sober has happened in these sometimes slowly variety, which I get it now, but I didn't get it to begin with, you know, imagine that, right? But I know for a fact, if I would have been given all of this stuff, even to this day, if I'm given stuff too quickly,

Mike (21:50.766)
Uh-huh. Uh? Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:00.523)
Of course.

Mike (22:04.56)
Right.

Mike (22:10.594)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bill (22:12.52)
If I don't have to work for it, I feel weird about it, you know? And, you know, if somebody gives me a gift and they do it out of appreciation, that's a different story, you know? But I mean, if it's just, I don't know, whatever it is, it just snaps, it happens. I'm like, oh, fuck, because I will take advantage of that ease and that comfort and that ease because it is, you know, it's really, really easy to get comfortable. And if I would have, you know, again, caught on,

Mike (22:19.73)
Mm. Sure. Right.

Mike (22:28.962)
ehehehe

Mmm.

Bill (22:40.116)
got this thing the whole bit or even had that mindset to begin with, I can't say I wouldn't have stayed sober, but I think I would have had a tougher time at it.

Mike (22:48.078)
Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, Jesus Christ, how many people have we seen through the years, you know, that, you know, they're riding that fucking pink cloud because everything's going so goddamn well for them at two months sober, you know? Yeah, they never fucking make it, man. You know, because they're not earning it. Again, at two months sober, I still had the mindset that the world owed me and, you know, instant gratification and.

And of course, because that's the way I lived my entire life up to that point, decades and decades. So yeah, I am grateful that shit takes too fucking long for me. Right.

Bill (23:26.36)
Right. Yeah. And like I, like that's what I was saying, and you and I get it, but you know, we appreciate the fact that, you know, that it happens that way because I think we, thankfully we know we know ourselves well enough to realize that it's again, not a good thing for the other part. But the, to begin with when, and I know that a lot of people had these, well, first of all, when, you know, people always talked about their moment of clarity and it's like, okay, I have this moment of clarity and that's the...

Mike (23:39.224)
Mm.

Mike (23:50.947)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (23:52.988)
for everyone out there again, non 12 step or whatever, it's usually that point where, so it's something happens where people have these and I'm big fucking air quotes, God moments, or whatever they are, they get the voice whisper or the thing pops up in their car. People have told us stories about these things. It's one step short of just seeing a sign that says, you better get sober motherfucker, and that's their sign, right? I didn't have that.

Mike (24:02.838)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (24:09.846)
Right?

Mike (24:15.93)
Mm hmm. Right.

Bill (24:20.22)
I mean, I had a moment, I didn't have a moment of weakness. I think I felt like I had this moment of, or not a moment of clarity, I feel like I had a moment of weakness, you know? You know, kind of spilled my guts, which after the fact, I'm like, maybe I shouldn't have done that, and blah, whatever. You know, and then, you know, but then these people are talking about, especially around the third step thing, you know, it's like, ooh, this flash. And again, the after the fifth step, you know, I did, I felt relieved to get it done with.

Mike (24:28.752)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (24:33.47)
Hehe

Mike (24:41.685)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (24:46.03)
Sure.

Bill (24:46.588)
You know, and it was, it's a weight off, but you know, people had these, again, these big moments, you know, these light bulb flash, what I fucking never had that. But I do remember, you know, being probably, I don't know, 90 months, 90 months. 90 days sober or roughly in that area, because we were still doing the walk in the morning. And I was on the walk and I was just doing my prayers and I'm like, when did I start doing these prayers? Then I'm like, looking back, I'm like,

Mike (24:53.482)
Uh huh. Nah.

Mike (25:04.654)
Uh huh.

Mike (25:08.598)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (25:16.508)
I'm like, shit, man, I, and I knew I made progress, you know, and that was pretty fucking cool, you know. And I remember this one time after, um, I think when I got my, it might've been my first real job, or maybe it was at the factory, it doesn't even fucking matter. But Tom and I went someplace on a, on a Friday night because we could, you know, and I think we went over to see one of his family members or whatever, but it was a, it was a beautiful night. It was in the summer, you know, windows down the whole bit. We're driving around listening to music.

Mike (25:19.979)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:36.263)
Mm hmm. Right.

Mike (25:42.988)
Right?

Bill (25:46.032)
And I just felt fucking free, you know? But on top of that too, I just felt like, wow, what a difference, you know, of where I was, whatever that was, you know, three or four months prior. But those were the things that I had. I saw progress along the way, but I never had a flash. You know, so that, whatever that spiritual awakening's supposed to be, it's, like you said, I'm not fully awake yet. There's not a fucking, you know, fucking way I'm fully awake. Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Yeah.

Mike (25:48.543)
Yeah.

Mike (26:11.542)
No, this definitely is not it. Right.

Bill (26:16.516)
If this is it, I want a refund because I'm not perfect yet. I'm not perfect yet. But okay, so the spiritual awakening thing, we figure that, you know, again, that's a growth thing and that's still going on. And then just because I'm sure that everyone else probably forgot what you read to begin with. What's the last part of that? Practice again all our affairs, right?

Mike (26:29.142)
Yeah.

Mike (26:36.546)
practicing these principles in all our affairs.

Bill (26:39.548)
Okay, so what that means and the sad reality that we found out at the time was a sad reality was we had to act, you know, good on the outside, not just in the rooms, right? And they do mean everything. They mean like when Mike's out running around doing his shit today, when people fucking piss you off at work, when things don't go your way. It doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, we have to be the, you know, I don't want to say the better person, the bigger person.

Mike (26:44.214)
Yeah.

Mike (26:51.06)
Mm-hmm. Heh heh heh. Yeah.

Bill (27:06.9)
Take the high road, do whatever he is, not beat up Jesus boy, all those different things, you know? Ha ha.

Mike (27:11.258)
Exactly. Right. Yeah. Right. Incorporate these principles, man. Not and, and we'll go ahead and say seven times out of 10. Um, all it means is not doing what I really want to do. Yeah. You know, those three times. Yeah, it's good. I kind of want to be a good person and do the next right thing and all that good stuff, but yeah.

seven times out of ten. I don't. I don't want to. I want to flip the guy off. I want to run the fucking car off the road. But that's not being a good boy. That's not practicing these principles, these principles of honesty and unselfishness and purity and love. So yeah, you know, I take a beat and then I go, yep, this is the right thing to do. And then I do that.

Bill (28:07.56)
Right. Well, that's the, you know, speaking of gifts, I mean, that's like the biggest gift that we have now is that gift of pause, you know, and it's, I never had that. I had, my dad was the same way. My dad had a bad temper and a quick temper, which, you know, some people have one or the other. You know, if you, you know, they get to that point that the switch is turned, they fucking blow up, you know, or they just blow up at everything.

Mike (28:08.534)
Yep.

Mike (28:16.814)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (28:28.984)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (28:36.904)
You know, and, but I mean, he was both, he was horrible and quick, you know? And I was always that way. And I, again, I don't know if it's, going back to whatever it is, is that shit hereditary? Is it learned behavior? Whatever the fuck it is, I don't care. I had it, you know? And I, I've been taught to not completely have that anymore, or at least not to show it. Not to let other people see it and hear it, because it, you and I talked about it all the time.

Mike (28:37.375)
Right.

Mike (28:41.523)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (28:49.858)
Hmm, right. Mm-hmm, right.

Mike (28:59.01)
Mm-hmm, right. Heh heh heh. Uh-huh.

Bill (29:05.684)
down to the simple points of somebody, it could be a loved one. Do you want to? No. Would you like to? No. Do you wanna help? No. But you don't say that. You're like, yes, how may I help you? How may I help you? Then your head, you're like, ha ha. Yeah. And I don't know, back to the point of we've talked about it, I probably talked about it 50 times, throwing away a paper towel that hits the floor, and you're like, I don't wanna pick that up.

Mike (29:13.838)
Mm-hmm. How?

Yeah. Great. Thank you, sir. May I have another.

Mike (29:33.166)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (29:35.464)
you know, or, you know, somebody giving you too much change, whatever the fuck it is, all these simple things that mean nothing to the grand scheme of things mean everything to us, you know, because we were taught that it means something.

Mike (29:40.718)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:46.334)
Right. Or even fucking worse, walking into a room and seeing that paper towel, laying on the floor that you had absolutely nothing to fucking do with and picking it up and throwing it away. Anyway, cause you know, leave the place better than you found it. Fuck you.

Bill (29:57.037)
Oh, yep.

Bill (30:01.576)
I've done, yeah, and I literally, seriously, I've done that countless number of times, you know? And I'll take a, I'll wash my hands to get a, you know, get as much paper towel on that hand as I can and grab it, throw it, because I'm not touching that motherfucker. I don't know where it's been. You know, or you're gonna walk into, it happens all the time. I'm sure ladies, it happens to you too. You walk into a stall and, you know, somebody just did, somebody didn't flush, whatever it is, and you're like, well, flush, you know, and.

Mike (30:07.566)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (30:13.811)
Right, right. Oh yeah, right.

Mike (30:27.018)
Right.

Bill (30:29.416)
You know, anything like that. I mean, just these little things, you know. I've had people be in the urinal next to me, take a fucking leak, walk out, of course, without washing their hands, and they didn't flush the urinal. You reach over like kaboosh. Now, again, does that make any bit of difference to my life or anyone else's life? I don't know. But. Right. Yeah, yeah. But.

Mike (30:31.982)
I don't know. Yeah.

Mike (30:39.726)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (30:43.114)
Great.

Mike (30:48.866)
Huh. Right. But it makes our little corner of the world a better place. Yep.

Bill (31:00.224)
And again, part of the 12-step that we don't, I don't know that you and I talk about a ton on here, but it's not just practicing these principles, but it's also, I mean, helping other people, being ready and being available to people in recovery. And I don't know if it's done, I think it's probably still done on a semi-regular basis, but I know it was done more in the old days, the 12-step calls, somebody.

Mike (31:06.894)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:11.991)
Right.

Mike (31:23.394)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (31:26.108)
somebody has trouble, a wife, a husband, a brother, sister, a family member calls and a couple of drunks go over, sober, alcoholics go over and help the dude out and take him wherever. And you and I have done that a couple of times, helped out people or been involved in shit like that. But I don't know, I mean, I don't know if maybe we're, if we don't put ourselves in as much of a position, like a position of service to do that all the time or if it's just not done as much anymore, I don't know.

Mike (31:29.39)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Mike (31:41.218)
Sure. Right?

Mike (31:53.765)
Mm-hmm.

I probably a little of both, you know? Yeah. Right. You know, it is not done as much, um, because of the nature of things today. You know, there's, there's a lot of more avenues for people to reach out to. And, um, that's a good thing. Um, but you know, also, yeah, I think it's kind of sometimes not such a good thing. I think, yeah, the old days when, yeah, that wife would call.

Um, you know, central office or whatever, and say, my husband's a fucking mess and I need some help and a couple of guys that go over there and just talk to the guy, you know, not drag them to a meeting, not whatever, you know, like, I mean, in the book talks about how to do it. You know, you go over there and you tell them your story. Basically. Um, you know, um, right. And there's the stories that are out there now and you know, people have podcasts now.

Yeah. Right. You know, the, the stories are available. Um, you know, that's originally why they put the stories in the book, you know, to, you know, guys that are at the time, you know, you're out in the middle of nowhere, Nebraska or something. You get ahold of this book and read the stories because there weren't a couple of guys to come out to your farm and talk to you and tell their story. Um, you know, yeah, it's different. Um, shit evolves.

Bill (32:50.201)
Everyone does.

Mike (33:18.206)
shit changes, get more spiritually awake. Right. You know, and again, yes, I think, I think there's probably pros and cons to it. Absolutely. You know, I think it probably was more direct and more hands-on and in that case better. But, you know, again, today there are far more places to go and more avenues to seek help.

That's good too. You know, I think unfortunately, if you wanna get sober, you've gotta do a little more work, which again, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it might be a little harder than having a couple of guys come to your house and talk to you and make that personal connection right away, which I don't think really happens like it used to, which is a damn shame. Yeah.

Bill (34:17.864)
Yeah, I mean, there's, and I just know from being on Instagram and stuff like this, and the, again, I mean, there's literally people talk about, you know, it's sober Instagram, and it is. I mean, there's this whole community of people, you know, which is, again, it was, it still is mind blowing to me, but it just about, I don't know, I was awestruck by it to begin with.

Mike (34:22.847)
Right.

Mike (34:29.086)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Bill (34:41.448)
When I first got on Instagram and just all these sober profiles, it's fucking crazy. It was like the first time that I went to West Park men's or Keating Monday or something like that. I'm like, the fuck the goddamn alcoholics come from? I'm like, Jesus Christ. You know, you just walk into this room and you know, again, West Park was a Keating men's was the first one I went to or first big meeting 100 people, I would think, you know.

Mike (34:57.643)
Right. Hehe

Mike (35:05.07)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Oh, easily. Yeah.

Bill (35:08.7)
Yeah, and then West Park men's couple hundred. I mean probably in that in that place at least 150 if not two and um again, just I wasn't I don't know. I mean I knew you know, but I had never been around that many sober people in one place I was just fucking mind blown You know, but um, but anyhow, so I just know from being on there that there are a lot of people that found recovery from Doing an internet search, you know, and they're doing the typical thing

Mike (35:11.69)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Mike (35:20.893)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (35:24.266)
Right.

Mike (35:36.75)
Sure. Right.

Bill (35:38.28)
do I drink too much? Click. You know, or how much is too much? Whatever the deal is. And they come across all these things, you know, which is, which is cool because having all that out there, but then a lot of people and you know, to all their credit, have gone on social media, hooked into a group like that and stay sober, which again is, is a miracle to me because I can't say, you know, never say never type of thing, but

Mike (35:41.494)
Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Sure.

Mike (35:58.766)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Bill (36:08.356)
Same reason as I don't think IOP would work for me. It could have, but I needed what I needed. And having that, the only thing that kept me there, and again, kept me straight for those first nine months until my head popped out of my ass, is, was all you guys. And being in a safe place. If I had to go home every night and sit in my own, wallow in my own stuff, you know, it just, I...

Mike (36:11.562)
Right.

Mike (36:25.245)
Right, right?

Mike (36:31.054)
Mmm. Shit. Yup. Ha ha ha.

Bill (36:37.196)
Again, you know, I don't wonder anymore why people relapse. I'm not saying that's the reason, but, you know, community, that's the one thing that, one of the things we've heard from everyone, regardless of what path, whether it's on social media, people we've talked to or people we've met is, you know, people aren't the people that are, you know, successful or continue to be successful to this day, you know, or at least through today, have done it with at least somebody or some people, a group.

Mike (36:42.289)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (36:48.398)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (37:03.174)
Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Which is, you know, again, this goddamn AA math shit that doesn't add up to me. Right. You know, I got it. It's an inside job as Bob used to say, we've got to do the work ourselves, all that good stuff, but we can't do it alone. Right. Okay. So it's an internal job, but I can't do it by myself. Fuck. Okay. All right. Point me in the right direction. God damn it.

Bill (37:08.166)
Hahaha!

Bill (37:17.5)
Right. Ha ha ha.

Bill (37:24.576)
Right, yeah, you gotta... It's like a job application. Can you work independently and can you work as a team? Every time I see that at one of these job applications, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, change your format. You know, I mean, my God. But so last question on that, and speaking of since we're talking about these 12 step calls, did you ever go on one or have to go pick somebody up?

Mike (37:36.522)
Right. Hehehehe. No.

Mike (37:43.374)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (37:51.049)
Uh.

Mike (37:54.954)
Um...

I mean, not, not in the traditional sense. No. Um, no, you know, definitely, um, definitely like met people at meetings and stuff and kind of, you know, took them aside with other people and, you know, we'd talk and whatever, which was kind of that, but actually going into someone's house, like they used to do it. Nah, I've never done that.

Bill (38:22.6)
Yeah, the, and it wasn't really to go there and talk to was go to pick them up to take them back to the Keating Center. I, I do, I didn't go pick up Darrell. Um, and that was, I mean, I was, I was fucking scared, you know, um, cause it was a fucking shit ass fleabag motel that he had, he had popped himself into. And, uh, it was one of those things where, and again, you want to talk about, Hey, can you fuck? No, I can't, man. I don't want to, I gotta work, you know,

Mike (38:27.998)
Yeah, I know, right. Right.

Mike (38:35.675)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (38:39.538)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Mike (38:49.038)
Hehe

Bill (38:49.908)
But it happened to be that it was one of those, I was working late nights and it was one of those days, it was like a Wednesday or a Thursday and I was the only one in the three quarter house between like you, me, Mike Rowley, Frankie, it was like four of us that were tasked with going to get Darryl. I was the only one that could do it. I didn't fucking wanna do it, you know? Because first of all, I just didn't want to, but secondly, I'll be honest, I was fucking scared, you know? Because Darryl's a big, he was a.

Mike (38:55.758)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:05.393)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:13.399)
Right. Yeah, exactly. Swung one of the fucking hams at your head, man. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And probably, you know, two 50 and right. And not real fat.

Bill (39:18.744)
Oh, yeah. And he was what? Six four, probably. You know, and you know. There you go. Yep. No, and I'm and I'm six one, so I'm not I'm not sure, but I'm a fucking twig compared to Darryl. He would have fuck beat the hell out of me. And I saw I saw his temper when he was sober. I'm like, I don't want to deal with this motherfucker drunk, you know. But it was like I forget who was in touch with I think it was Frankie. And I've just said, I said, OK, here's the deal, though. You tell him.

Mike (39:35.287)
Right.

Mike (39:40.03)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (39:44.418)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (39:47.344)
I'm going to be there at this time. He has to be ready because I got to get him to Keating Center and I got to go to work. And I said, you tell him I will get him, but I'm not fucking sacrificing my job for his ass, you know? And that was a fair statement to make to him, you know, because he was just all this back and forth, this in and out stuff. He needed a little bit of that from all of us, you know? But you know, so I get there and I walked into the hotel room. And again, oh yeah, I apologize. Take it back.

Mike (39:55.377)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:58.7)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:07.347)
Oh yeah.

Mike (40:13.162)
Motel. Hehe

Bill (40:18.004)
It was an M hotel, definitely. But I mean, you know, the place wasn't like filthy or anything, it wasn't trash, but I mean, you know, he smelled like booze, he looked like shit, and he's shaking like a fucking leaf, and you know, get him in the car, and he's talking, he's talking, this and that. You know, we had a decent heart to heart type of talk, because I mean, Darryl was a good dude, I mean, we all loved him, you know? And then, you know, it's kind of like, you know, dude, you got to get your shit straight, man, you know, what are you going to do, this and that?

Mike (40:20.212)
That's right.

Mike (40:25.678)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Yep.

Mike (40:34.466)
Uh-huh.

Uh huh. Right. Sure, of course.

Bill (40:45.596)
And then he's talking about, he's like, he's like, wait, where are you going? He's like, I got to go back to the three quarter house, man. And I'm like, no, you don't. He's like, what? I said, Nope. Marty said you're going to the Keating center. And he's like, he's like, what? I said, Marty's Marty told me that I'm like, I'm not taking to three quarter house. You know, I got, I have to get them. No, you don't. We're going, we're going to the Keating center. And we did, you know, and it was.

Mike (40:51.534)
Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh

Mike (41:03.755)
Right.

Bill (41:11.672)
And you know, again, at that part, he got there and whatever, and his story didn't end well, but you know, that particular day it did. But man, I was scared. I was scared as fuck to go there, you know, then it was just nerve wracking, you know. But, you know, again.

Mike (41:16.235)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Absolutely. But you got his ass through another 24 hours, which is all any of us can do.

Bill (41:29.372)
Yeah. And it wasn't like, like I said, to begin with of not wanting to go, it wasn't because we didn't care about them, because we did. And again, we talked about that before. What a great example. I mean, fear is the background of everything, you know? And I was, I was fucking scared. Just fucking scared. So, all right. So what else, anything else on step 12? I mean, it's, again, we have to do that every day though, right?

Mike (41:46.64)
Hehe

Mike (41:50.218)
Uh-huh.

Mike (41:58.102)
Yeah, oh, absolutely. That's, you know, that's a, you know, hell nobody argues that 10, 11 and 12 need to be done on a daily basis. You know, there's plenty of motherfuckers out there that will argue about one, two and three and six and seven. And I did those blah, blah. Nine. Oh, I finished my amends. Good for you asshole. Right. But nobody argues about 10, 11 and 12 that shit. We got to keep doing all the time and 12. Absolutely. We've got to carry the message. We've got to.

Bill (41:59.232)
Okay. Ha ha ha.

Hehehe

Bill (42:17.322)
Right.

Mike (42:27.39)
improve our spirituality, we've got to fucking practice this shit. Thankfully, they say we don't have to do these principles, act out these principles perfectly in every way. Every day, we have to practice these principles and all of our affairs.

Bill (42:41.576)
Right? Yeah, and that's a good point. I guess I never, I'm glad you brought that up because I never specifically thought about that word in there, but that's like the when we were wrong thing, step 10. You know, it's not saying we might be wrong when we're wrong and then yeah, it says practice. Oh, well that makes me feel a little bit better actually. You know what, that's, no seriously, that just almost like kind of like a ooh, ah, ooh. I feel a little bit better now, I like that. All right, so if we're good on that, then what do you say? Good time to take a little break?

Mike (42:53.719)
Right?

Right? Mm-hmm. Hehehehehehe.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (43:10.006)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we've covered all this stuff. So now we're going to hear a word from our sponsor and be right back.

Bill (43:27.488)
All right everyone, welcome back and yeah, truly. Well, I feel, I think I feel more spiritually fit after all that, you know? But I mean, you know, I joke about that a little bit, but yeah, these little, these little fucking moments, like again, practice, I'm like, wow, ooh. Which again, I know all these things, but I don't know. It's, I don't know if that seems stupid to people, but.

Mike (43:30.486)
Told ya. Ha ha ha.

Mike (43:38.414)
Alright, yeah, me too.

Mike (43:43.022)
Mmm.

Mike (43:46.286)
Hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Bill (43:55.072)
Just something as little like that. I'm like, God damn, I like that. Fucking practice. I'm gonna get better at this. Yeah, just practicing.

Mike (43:59.243)
Yep, keep practicing man. Yep, that's how you get better at stuff, you practice.

Bill (44:06.504)
Right. All right. So, um, now I've got like three different things I want to want to kind of mention. I want to talk a little bit about, um, some of our, like, I don't know, play stats listeners, that sort of thing. That's going to be a brief thing. But the first thing is, so we had, um, a person on episode 35. Her name is Christine. She's a good friend of ours. If you are on Instagram, she goes by Sober as a Mother. She is celebrating 13 years sober today. So.

Mike (44:20.334)
Okay.

Mike (44:28.099)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (44:36.249)
Yay!

Bill (44:37.472)
Yeah, congratulations. I had in the only reason I mean, I didn't remember right away. It's a lot of times I'll put these things in my in my calendar, you know Some of these some of these good friends of ours But for whatever reason I didn't but she had mentioned something like a week or so ago in one post it was coming up so yeah, I sent her a text this morning and then put a post on Instagram and Yeah, I mean she's a first of all, she's a she's a good shit She does a lot for you know, the sober community does a lot for specifically the women, you know on the sober community

Mike (44:47.743)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (45:05.873)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (45:07.236)
Um, it just, uh, she's a friend. She helped us out a lot with Instagram and some ideas on the podcast and things like that. She has been in our corner from the start when we started doing this a couple of years ago. So, um, yeah. And you know, 13 years sober today. So I was, uh, I was super happy with that, but, um, episode 35, if anyone wants to hear her story, um, she, and the, I posted the clip, the clip I posted today was like the, the last clip of the week, uh, from when we were running it.

Mike (45:15.575)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (45:37.244)
And she had said, she's like, you know, it's the first podcast that she'd ever been on. Um, and just, you know, didn't feel comfortable getting out and talking about stuff, but yeah, she got really deep and told, told her entire story. So it was a good episode. So once again, episode 35. So go back, everyone follow her sober as a mother, go take a look, take a listen to the episode. And then, um, we had Carly and Breeze on back on episode 83. And if you listen to the.

Mike (45:42.537)
Mm.

Mike (45:46.002)
Right? Mm-hmm.

Mike (46:01.998)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (46:06.352)
end of each one of our podcasts now with the whole beats and the mics out and the fuck off thing. Breeze is the one that did that audio or the music for us and that. So we thank her again. But Carly is putting out her and she talked about it when she was on the episode, but she's starting to promote her book. She's getting the audio book together. And I told her, I saw the post and I told her that we would mention it on here if she set me a little write up. So I'm going to read what she...

Mike (46:14.319)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (46:35.42)
sent to me, okay? So, um, they're in a, the group that they, that they put together is called Trust Your Message. So Trust Your Message is a brand founded by Carly Reed and Breeze. Our mission is to cultivate community and destigmatize addiction through the power of shared stories and connection. Taking Carly's written poetry during her recovery journey, she published her first book called Human Behind the Mask, which is a deeply personal memoir of spiritual growth and recovery.

Mike (46:36.834)
Nice.

Bill (47:04.676)
offering hope and inspiration to those struggling with addiction, body dysmorphia, and or mental health. Together, Carly and Breeze are working on an audiobook, which will be released mid-February. Carly has narrated her own poems and Breeze has produced a music that fits the theme of each poem. So it'll be a really deep combination of read poetry and coordinating music. So once again, Carly and Breeze, they were on with us for episode 83.

fun story because of how they met because yeah Breeze is a drummer and Carly kind of was super drunk and got up on stage and that's how they met and all these different things but I did tell Carly that you know that once the book is released you know that to let us know the audiobook but they're out there that the two of them they're young and they're active and they're out there trying to do things they're out there doing 12-step work I guess is the best way to put it.

Mike (47:35.606)
Mm-hmm, definitely.

Mike (47:45.838)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (47:55.883)
Yeah, definitely.

Mike (48:01.834)
Yeah, exactly. I was just going to say that. Yup. They're 12 stepping.

Bill (48:04.368)
Yeah, exactly. So I'll put a note in our, if you're listening to this, it should already be there, but I'll have Christine's Instagram information on there, plus Carly and Breeze. And thanks, both of them, you know, obviously for being on our podcast, but Christine, yes, and Carly and Breeze, but you know, also thanks to Breeze again for putting together that little musical thing for us, because that makes me laugh every time. Makes me laugh, it makes me smile, it makes me happy. It's fucking great. So.

Mike (48:20.814)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (48:29.366)
Hehe

Mike (48:33.386)
Makes me shake my ass.

Bill (48:35.388)
Yeah, and that's a, that's a little bit of a challenge there. You got a kind of 50, almost 57 year old man over there shaking that bearded ass. Wait, beard? No, your ass isn't bearded. Is it? Okay. All right. So on to that. But no, so this next one was just kind of, and you know, when I, when I look at our, you know, podcast or Spotify for podcasters thing, which used to be anchor.

Mike (48:39.343)
Hehehehe

Mike (48:43.21)
That's right. Now my ass is impure. No, it's pretty damn smooth actually.

Hehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (49:04.386)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (49:04.4)
And I don't, I mean, I look at our stats mainly from the audience standpoint, because I'm just curious how our audience, our audience ebbs and flows when it comes to the podcast. Our Instagram is still primarily female, 60 some percent female, the age group, you know. Yeah, on Instagram, imagine. And you see all this shit that I post, all the memes. I know, yeah, it's all these fucking women that are liking all this stuff, which is perfect. But with this thing.

Mike (49:18.858)
All right. I don't know. I see most of it. Yep.

Mike (49:30.211)
Mm-hmm, absolutely.

Bill (49:33.656)
We are now, we're losing the battle with the women on the podcast though, because 70% of our listeners now are men, okay? But here's the other interesting thing, and this just happened over the last probably month is we've got 30% of our listeners now are age 28 to 34. Is that weird? Yeah. Now, again, 70% are male, but we're getting that younger audience. Now we still have probably the...

Mike (49:37.88)
Hmm

Mike (49:41.9)
Wow.

Mike (49:47.877)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (49:54.423)
Wow, that is.

Mike (49:59.227)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (50:02.336)
40% is still in that 45 to 59 group, old fucks like us. But then we're still getting that, I don't know, whatever it is, the 20, 23 to whatever range also, but anyhow, it kind of blew my mind a little bit. But the other thing too is I think that, and maybe, I don't know if it was last week's episode when we were talking about it or whatever the deal is, we've had over 300 individual plays on all of our episodes.

Mike (50:06.891)
Right?

Bill (50:30.916)
in the last seven days, which that usually doesn't happen. You know, so it's not just on the new episode. I mean, we're doing, you know, average as we always do on the new episode of the last weeks. So I think we've got a new group of listeners coming in, so it's kind of cool. So yeah, but the only thing is, we got to figure out, I mean, do we, what do women want? Do we talk about vibrators more? Dildos? I don't know. I mean,

Mike (50:34.708)
Alright.

Mike (50:41.467)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (50:46.062)
Cool. Nice.

Mike (50:57.446)
If we knew if we truly knew what women wanted we wouldn't be sitting here on a Friday night doing a podcast

Bill (51:04.069)
That's a good goddamn point. Okay, so, alright, so then our normal default is gentlemen, for all you fucking dudes out there listening, and welcome. Don't get us wrong, we're happy to have you, but you gotta have, there's gotta be at least one female that everyone knows. Tell them about it, get them over here. Sit down and have a, no, don't sit down with them, because then we won't get the credit for the additional play. So no, tell them.

Mike (51:05.75)
Hehe

Mike (51:14.446)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (51:21.418)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (51:28.96)
They can go listen with their ladies. But yeah, I don't know. It's just for a while there, it was pretty even split for a long time. But yeah, now somehow, however it happened, we brought the dudes back in.

Mike (51:30.754)
That's right.

Mike (51:41.215)
All right. Welcome fellas.

Bill (51:43.176)
Yeah, good to hear. I mean, seriously, anyone who is who is new or new ish to this. You know, we do we fuck around a lot with stuff like this, but we do appreciate it. We're you know, we've said it to everyone for, you know, almost two years now that we're having fun. We're still having fun. We don't plan on going away. So, you know, again, this is this is it doesn't get any better than this. I mean, it's yeah, if we've had some episodes that have done really well and some great guests like Dr. Sarah.

Mike (52:04.006)
Oh no. This is fucking it.

Bill (52:12.564)
And that's, did you see that I posted that like the top five played most played episodes last year? So, um, Dr. Sarah was number one, which was kind of cool. One of our, one of our episodes when I was in Cleveland and one with the, you had the guy in the dog pound was our, was the picture on there. Um, I don't remember, I don't even know what we fucking talked about, but that was like episode 50. But, um, Tony made it, Megan made it, and, um, Nicole from Canada.

Mike (52:12.994)
Right?

Mike (52:17.465)
I miss that one.

Mike (52:22.118)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (52:30.415)
Oh yeah, yeah.

Mike (52:36.64)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (52:41.776)
and then Dr. Sarah in one of our episodes. Those were our top five. But yeah, Dr. Sarah was our number one, which I was thinking about that. It'd be fun to have her back on. You know, cause she was, that was a great episode. I mean, it really was. She was a lot of fun to talk to. So, but okay. Yeah, so that's it. That's it on the episodes and lists and all that sort of things. But one thing I did write down though, since we're going into the Christmas holiday and I know it's something we always do, do you want to take just a minute and do your little quick?

Mike (52:45.314)
Wow.

Mike (52:50.366)
Yeah, definitely.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (52:59.563)
All right.

Mike (53:08.683)
Uh huh.

Bill (53:12.156)
It's a holiday, you're sober talk, because I think it's important.

Mike (53:15.382)
Uh, yeah, we could do it real quick. Absolutely. Um, cause I'm sick of fucking doing it. Um, all right. Number one, your sobriety comes first. Who cares what fucking day it is. Doesn't matter. Your sobriety comes first. Um, you got to go into situations that are making you uncomfortable. Have an escape plan, have a way to get the fuck out of there. Um,

Bill (53:21.476)
I know it's that time of year.

Mike (53:39.946)
You know, again, it's just another damn day. I personally am not doing anything this year. I don't care. I'm gonna lay around, I'm gonna eat food, I'm gonna watch, probably watch Christmas Story and maybe Elf and hopefully I can find the thin man because that's my favorite fucking Christmas movie. And, you know, yeah, no plans, no pressure. No, it's just another day and it's a paid day off for me. That's what I'm grateful for.

But have an escape plan. It's not a big deal. If you're early in recovery, you know what, man, stay sober this year. So next year you can actually be truly sober and do something for somebody else. If you're not ready to do it yet, don't fucking do it. It doesn't matter. You know, it really, really doesn't, man. It's another day of the year. Don't put the pressure on yourself. It's 24 hours, just like today is 24 hours to stay sober. After that.

nothing else fucking matters.

Bill (54:42.556)
Right. So yeah. And it is. I mean, I know it's simple and to the point and it's repetitive, but you know, I don't know, just little things like that. You know, just, you know, how we are, quote unquote, we are as people. And, you know, I just think it's always good to do that sort of thing. But so cool. And then did you did you see the whole Matthew Perry thing, the update on it? OK.

Mike (54:43.511)
Yeah.

Mike (54:52.706)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (55:04.062)
Now, now I haven't, I've, you know, I've been on vacation, man. I don't fucking care.

Bill (55:09.988)
It was, you know what, and I saw it come up on an article. So I figured we'd just kind of wrap it up since we had talked about it. So Matthew Perry's cause of death died due to acute effects of ketamine, according to the autopsy report. Now, he was doing, and I mentioned it in here, that he was doing infusions for it. And they said that sometimes that...

Mike (55:17.644)
Sure.

Mike (55:21.051)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (55:36.302)
sticking it up his ass.

Bill (55:38.172)
I don't know. I don't know. I'm trying to think the that from what I remember, and I think he talked about it in. In his book, it was a it was something like infusions for it at basically to I don't know if it's for a pain or whatever it was, maybe there's that whole bowel thing that was going on. But basically what they're saying is that he had the last infusion number of days or whatever prior to that. So there's no way that

Mike (55:49.302)
Yeah.

Bill (56:08.02)
that it would have been, it could have only stayed in his life for three to four hours or something like that. So whatever the amount that was in his system was, you know, clearly he was taking it on his own. And they said, it said, at the high levels of ketamine found in his postmortar blood specimens, the main lethal effect lethal effects would be for both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression. Drowning contributes drowning contributes due to the likelihood of submersion in the pool.

Mike (56:17.986)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (56:37.732)
as he lapsed into unconsciousness. Okay, so kind of what we said. I mean, we didn't, I don't wanna sit there and say, well, we called it, but you know what I mean. We didn't know what the substance might be, but it sounds like, yeah, he's taken ketamine recreationally and took too much and faded out and he fucking drowned. So yeah, I mean, that's a, and again, the biggest thing, and the only reason I wanted to bring that up.

Mike (56:46.33)
Hmm.

Mike (56:49.71)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (56:54.97)
Hehehe

Bill (57:05.304)
again is because of the everything we talk about. You know, it's not about saying that, you know, we figured it might be something like that, blah, because that's not really the case. It's a matter of no bad examples, you know.

Mike (57:12.359)
Mm. All right.

Right. Oh yeah, absolutely. And, and one fucking day at a time, man, what you did yesterday does not count for today. Oh.

Bill (57:24.892)
Right? And, you know, like you said, I mean, these sort of things, I mean, you figure that, and he's a, the one thing that he's an example of is that everyone's like, well, this happened to me and I was here and I was there. You know, he had went through a lot of shit, no doubt, but he had the money, the people around him, all these different things, the knowledge, everything like that, and it still didn't, you know, it still didn't click for him or he didn't stay on the path. So none of that matters. His money didn't matter. Yeah, he didn't do the work. And then, you know,

Mike (57:46.114)
right? He didn't do the work.

Bill (57:52.848)
What happened to him in that hot tub could have happened to any one of us. You know, drunk, high, stone, whatever the fuck it is, you know, nodding off and drowning in a fucking hot tub. So none of us were immune, I guess would be the right way to put it.

Mike (57:56.982)
Oh yeah, right.

Hmm. Yup.

Mike (58:05.674)
Absolutely not. Daily reprieve, contention upon the maintenance of our spiritual condition.

Bill (58:11.652)
Aha, the maintenance. Let me write that word down. Maintenance. So I've heard that someplace before. I've heard that someplace before. So I know, yeah, once or twice or 17,000 times, which I thought was kind of funny. But the next thing I had written down of these was the thing about podcasts. Podcasts giving disclosures that they are not medical professionals or this is not medical advice. So I know you laughed at it because I was laughing too. That's.

Mike (58:13.548)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (58:18.204)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, me too, once or twice. Read it somewhere.

Mike (58:25.868)
Hehehehe. Yup.

Mike (58:35.383)
Mm. Uh.

Mike (58:39.962)
I am not a doctor and I did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Bill (58:44.55)
Right. So I wrote that down because I heard that on a podcast where it was just the, you know, at the beginning of it. Oh, just so you know, you know, even though we talk about this and the other thing, you know, this doesn't take the place of medical advice or whatever the case is. And, you know, people that talk about, you know, we don't represent a 12-step program and all the sort of things. All the, you know, and again, I mean, I...

Mike (58:52.5)
Uh huh.

Mike (58:58.966)
Right.

Mike (59:02.815)
Uh-huh.

Bill (59:07.272)
I don't know. Maybe I just put, do I put too much faith? Do we put too much faith in people? Does anyone think that we're fucking doctors? I mean, you know.

Mike (59:12.488)
Hmm hmm

Mike (59:18.307)
If they do, take your thumb. This is a doctor speaking. Take your thumb, lick it, and shove it up your ass. Doctor's orders.

Bill (59:21.173)
I

Bill (59:29.649)
Right. Dr. J. Michael Ross. Esquire. No, that's an attorney. But the same thing too. And I get it. You know, people don't want to get fucked with by other people. But you know, saying that we're, you know, we talked to Matt about that, you know, because Matt kind of puts a little bit of disclosure in front of the.

Mike (59:34.934)
That's me.

Mike (59:39.267)
Mmm. Heh heh.

Mike (59:46.828)
Ah.

Bill (59:53.096)
this Oberfriends podcast and he said, well, he just wanted to make it clear and stuff. And I'm like, I get that, you know, but, um, and there's this kind of mild, you know, he, he makes, he kind of makes a joke about it. You know, he said that, uh, we don't represent any 12 step group, but we do try to remain anonymous, which I think is kind of fun. He, he throws it out there in a, in a fun way, you know, but, um, but I mean, there's just some people that in the one podcast that I first started listening to, um, well, a little over two years ago, I think it was at the end.

Mike (59:54.222)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (59:57.378)
Sure.

Mike (01:00:08.462)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

Bill (01:00:22.436)
I mean, she went through this whole thing, you know, I'm not this, this is not a sanction, this is not this, this is not that. I'm just like, really? I mean, I didn't think it was. I'm like, I'm like, hmm, okay, well, let me, okay.

Mike (01:00:31.135)
Hmm. Right. Ha ha ha.

Mike (01:00:35.67)
Yeah. Thanks for the news flash Cronkite.

Bill (01:00:38.556)
Right. Yeah. It just, I don't know. I just, I don't ever want to get to that, get to that point where we have to, but you know, fucking warning labels and you know, this coffee's hot and all those sorts of things. And I get it. You know, all those, all those things are there because somebody fucking sued somebody over something, you know, and yeah, I don't know. Right. You know, there was a, that's just not the licking the toaster part, but so years ago when I did, I was doing like training and consulting.

Mike (01:00:53.174)
Right, exactly. Don't lick your toaster.

Mike (01:01:00.682)
Hehe

Bill (01:01:08.012)
on my own and I know I told you about that. It was before Dawn and I split. And this group that I had, I had the name of the company, the same type of thing as I've set it up as an LLC and whatever, and my tagline was, your success is our responsibility. Which I thought was kind of catchy and stuff like that. I had this one guy email me just out of the fucking blue, and he said, so if I hire you or if you do training for me or whatever and I don't succeed,

Mike (01:01:08.159)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:01:37.824)
Are you gonna take personal and financial responsibility for it? And I mean again, this is this is pre You know realizing that I shouldn't say so I don't know what I said to him But I don't think I held back, you know, but I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? You know, I'm sure I didn't swear at him, but I'm like, it's a it's a fucking tagline, you know I'm like really? Right, you know, I thought it was I thought it was fun. You know, I mean you know up there I'm doing work for you, you know

Mike (01:01:41.228)
Hehehe

Mike (01:01:46.87)
Right? Right.

Mike (01:01:55.446)
Right. It's a catchy little saying, settle down. Right.

Mike (01:02:04.654)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:02:05.596)
It's my responsibility to try to, what should I put it? I'm trying to be, what the fuck?

Mike (01:02:12.082)
And by the way, your failure is not my responsibility. Your failure is all on you, you fucking loser.

Bill (01:02:16.656)
Right. Fuck you. Yeah. And then it's fuck you pay me. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. That was just kind of funny that was right under the Matthew Perry thing that I had on there. But anyhow. So yeah. Okay. So just in case anyone's wondering, we're not fucking doctors. I posted a meme about that a few months ago.

Mike (01:02:23.614)
That's right. Get your shine box, boy.

Mike (01:02:33.634)
Hmm.

Mike (01:02:39.146)
We're not doctors.

Mike (01:02:43.254)
Yeah.

Bill (01:02:44.72)
It just said, I'm not a gynecologist, but I'll take a look. Ladies, I hold the same opinion to this day. I'm not a gynecologist. I'm more than happy to take a look. Okay. Exactly. All right. Enough of that one. So this was actually in Keep It Simple. It says one of the readings said that,

Mike (01:02:48.268)
Right, exactly.

Mike (01:02:57.378)
Sure, I'm not a proctologist and you're on your own.

Bill (01:03:14.02)
Shakespeare wrote this the phrase that's on our coins To thine to thine own self be true. Did you know that was Shakespeare? Did you fuck I didn't know that when I read that I'm just like I'm like really Okay, I had

Mike (01:03:21.858)
Right? I did. Mm-hmm. Ow.

Yeah, those fucking bills, man, laying down the wisdom, not you.

Bill (01:03:36.028)
Right, well, yeah, I mean... Yeah, I was about to say, nah, fuck it, I'm not even gonna beg for any of that, no, I get it, I get it, no, I don't. But no, seriously, I had no idea. I had no fucking idea.

Mike (01:03:41.95)
Yeah.

Mike (01:03:46.075)
Hehehehehehehehehehe

Mike (01:03:51.662)
Mm-hmm. Couldn't tell you what play it's from, but I knew it was him.

Bill (01:03:55.176)
Well, and that's the thing. So in high school, I didn't like Shakespeare sometimes because it was a little, I mean, clearly a little bit hard to, it's not a casual read, you know. But I mean, parts of it were kind of interesting, you know. I mean, if you really take a step back and take a look at some of the stuff, they were interesting, you know, stories and books and all that stuff, just not the easiest things to read and to comprehend. And

Mike (01:04:05.462)
Mm hmm. Right. Oh, absolutely.

Mike (01:04:12.916)
Oh, yeah.

Mike (01:04:23.29)
Yeah, well, the language is different, but yeah, the, the truths were the same. Right. Truth is the truth. And yeah, absolutely. You know, life experience and all that stuff. Yeah. The language is a bit different, but you know, we're all humans. We're all doing the same shit we were doing back then. It all applies.

Bill (01:04:38.7)
Right? Yeah, it just, yeah, and it's funny when you said truth. The truth, I can't even say that truth. But no, I just say I didn't know if you knew that. And I, again, I have no idea why I've never heard that. And again, I'm not that I read a ton, you know, Shakespeare, but you know, you think you'd run across it every once in a while. But I don't know. It's just fucking weird thing. So

Mike (01:04:44.866)
Uh-huh.

Mike (01:04:49.287)
Hehe

Mike (01:05:01.197)
Right?

Mike (01:05:05.006)
Well, I know. Well, hell, you brought it up. Yes, to their own self be true. I understand what they're saying about it and I get it, but quite frankly, I don't want to be completely true to myself because my true self is a liar, cheat, and a thief, and a drunk, and a junkie, and I gotta be real careful with that one.

I, you know, I was actually thinking about that not too long ago and it was like, yes, I understand what they mean. I understand we, we need to be ourselves and all that stuff. And by working the program, we uncover who we truly should be. Um, but you know, my, my true self is kind of a piece of shit. So, um, I've got to, I got to remember that, um, yes, I understand what they're saying, but I can't, uh,

lean on it too heavily because I will be a piece of shit asshole that I am. And I, it's not what I want to be. I want to practice those principles and all of my affairs. Yep.

Bill (01:06:12.928)
Right. And you know what? I'm glad that you brought that up because I've never thought anything into that saying whatsoever. I've had zero. I've read it. It's on my coins. I know the saying. I've never given it even a second thought about what it means, what the background is or anything like that. So seriously, I mean, that's, it's a good point, you know, because really are in like we're talking about, you know, like when the last

Mike (01:06:21.686)
Mm hmm. Right?

Mike (01:06:29.126)
Mmm. Hehehehehehe.

Mike (01:06:36.098)
Mm.

Bill (01:06:42.6)
we're talking about following people and following the path and looking up to people, the whole pedestal thing. And, you know, figuring that, you know, with that is just, I mean, again, we're following this guideline and all these different things, but, you know, we can only do so much and only follow along. We're still, we are what we are type of thing. And the point taught that whole thing was when people fall or when people fail, it's just kind of what we do, you know? And it's...

Mike (01:06:44.558)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike (01:06:55.704)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:07:09.815)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:07:10.972)
It's a sad way to look at it, but to your point, again, to thine own self be true, oh yeah. Yeah. That just, that makes sense. Wait, where's my coins? I'm gonna start scratching that off my coins.

Mike (01:07:24.168)
Right. Be true to the stuff that you should be, not be true to the self that you are, which again, is, you know, the, the spiritual awakening and the growth and all that stuff. Right. Cause the person that I was and the person that I am are different and I'm grateful for that. And, um, yes.

My true self isn't all that great. That's why I need this program. Yep.

Bill (01:07:48.344)
Right? No, but again, man, I just had two fucking light bulb moments in this. I mean, Jesus Christ, you know, practicing, I get to practice, I don't have to be perfect in all my affairs, and I don't really want to be to thine own, to my own self, I don't really want to completely true, because, god damn. No, but again, I say that jokingly, but I, literally, I never gave that phrase any thought beyond just to thine own self, it was there.

Mike (01:07:53.628)
Hehe

Uh huh. Right.

Hehe

Mike (01:08:05.03)
Uh-uh. Uh-huh. Hehehe. I know.

Mike (01:08:16.178)
Right. Mm hmm.

Bill (01:08:16.98)
It was words on a coin, it was words on a piece of paper here. No other thought. So, see, you know, okay, everyone, that's why we get together on this, you know? That's why we do what we do. This is a kind of quality...

Mike (01:08:25.638)
That's right. That's right.

Mike (01:08:34.957)
It's kind of spontaneous. It's been a jerk week. You saw my snail thing, right?

Bill (01:08:36.48)
Hehehe

Bill (01:08:42.195)
No, no, was that a Facebook?

Mike (01:08:44.151)
Oh yeah, with Chris, we're on vacation. And the last, uh, the last restaurant we ate at, um, yeah, was the French restaurant and she ordered escargot as an appetizer. And yes. So I took a picture of her looking up and I said, don't look down. You have snails on your plate. Right.

Bill (01:08:50.952)
Oh, yeah, okay.

Bill (01:09:02.536)
Hehehehehehe

Hehehehe

Mike (01:09:07.33)
And I called the waiter over and formed him that there were snails on her plate and made him bring those cheese grilled cheese appetizers that he talked to me out of.

Bill (01:09:17.159)
Yeah, I did see that. When you said snails, I'm like, I thought you posted something today and I haven't been on Facebook since this morning. So, but no, I.

Mike (01:09:22.966)
Nah, I haven't done shit today. I've been dodging Santa's elves.

Bill (01:09:27.348)
But yeah, I mean, I saw the French restaurant. So anything else, I mean, that actually looked like, it reminded me of, you know, cause my son-in-law, Brian, you know, is a chef and all that stuff. And the presentation is a big deal to him. Cause he, again, he's a chef. He's not just a cook, he's a chef. You know, so he does shit like that. Yeah. And it's really fucking cool, you know? He could make you a grilled cheese something and it would look fucking beautiful and be delicious. You know?

Mike (01:09:37.453)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Sure. Right. He's an artiste. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:09:55.466)
Right. Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill (01:09:57.224)
But that's what it reminded me of, because again, presentation is all of it. But anything else, I mean, from the vacation, I meant to ask you that right off the bat, but any other, just kicking back, hanging out while you were there?

Mike (01:10:06.271)
Yeah.

Mike (01:10:10.134)
Yeah, no, that was it. You know, it was lovely as always. And, uh, we'll be going back next year.

Bill (01:10:16.016)
Okay, yeah, because I just didn't know. I mean if I hadn't had a chance obviously to talk to you since then but But yeah, that actually looked I mean that the restaurant looked nice. So that's cool Fucking

Mike (01:10:24.782)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, food's great down there. It's another reason we go. Yep. Yeah.

Bill (01:10:29.744)
Right? I couldn't, uh, I couldn't imagine eat fucking snails. I mean, maybe, maybe they'd be wonderful, but no, thank you.

Mike (01:10:34.406)
Yeah. I don't do any sort of insects. I don't do shrimp. I don't do crab. I don't do lobster. No insects. Thank you. Nothing with an exco skeleton. Nope.

Bill (01:10:42.)
Right.

Bill (01:10:46.432)
Right, right. But, okay, so in this, I know we've talked about this before, but I thought this, just looking at the time, this might be a good one to get close to wrapping up on. I was listening to, as always, another podcast and they were talking about comparing themselves or, you know, comparing to others and things like that. And it was just in a general conversation, but I know that was a big deal, you know, especially when we first got sober.

Mike (01:11:01.222)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:11:07.913)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:11:16.264)
So I just thought it'd be interesting because I don't know that we've talked about it specifically, but I just thought it might be a good thing to kind of go over, especially if somebody is listening to us that's new, you know, the whole comparison thing, especially when we're new. So when you, let's, I don't know, take whether it's this time or when you got sober the last time, did you do that? Did you compare yourself or what was your experience with comparing at that?

Mike (01:11:26.07)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:11:39.774)
Um, well, yeah, I mean, I didn't get sober before I stayed dry for small periods of time, but, um, yes. And when I did that, um, yes, of course I compared myself all the fucking time. Um, man, you know, I'm not that bad. Oh, I'm better than them. Oh, I'm worse than them. I'm, you know, it's, uh, it's burning calories on nothing, man. Um, the beautiful thing about this, this whole thing is we're exactly the same.

You know, um, no, I haven't been to prison. I've been to jail. Um, I, I haven't killed anybody with a car. Um, didn't have a DUI. Uh, you know, there's lots of things I haven't done yet. Um, you know, but so what that doesn't mean anything, you know, um, th there are people that, uh,

that weren't homeless, you know, I was, um, there were people that, you know, maintain their jobs and their families and whatever. Um, I didn't, uh, you know, but the bottom line is we were all of us, anyone who is an alcoholic and a drug addict, all of us were slaves. Uh, all of us had no choice when it came to the substance that we used, uh,

If it was just one or it was all of them or a specific few or whatever. Um, you know, it doesn't matter comparing yourself. Uh, hell I didn't, I didn't use a needle until I was 30 years old. Um, but then I did, uh, you know, uh, right. Then I did a lot. Uh, right. It doesn't, yeah. Comparing yourself again is just wasting.

Bill (01:13:14.512)
All right.

Mike (01:13:27.17)
burning calories for nothing, man, wasting time, wasting energy. We're the same, which means that the solution is the same. Um, yeah, don't compare yourself. I'm not as bad as him. I'm worse than him. Now you're exactly the same as him or her or whatever. Doesn't matter. We're exactly the same, which means that the solution is exactly the same. Um, which I know is going to piss some people off, but listen to the people that

We've had on guests on this little tiny corner of the world, the internet, whatever the fuck this is, um, you know, we've had people on that did not go through AA or NA, they did not do a 12 step program, but they did the same shit we did just in a slightly different way. They got people around them. They became a part of a community. They changed their behaviors. Um, you know, that's, it's the same. It's exactly the same.

Bill (01:14:01.992)
Hahaha

Mike (01:14:25.719)
And now I'm done.

Bill (01:14:25.928)
Right. Yeah. And Nico was a great example of that because as we were listening to his story, and that was just a few episodes ago, you know, both, and I knew you, I knew you were hearing the same thing as I was. I was hearing, even though he was not, if I remember, he might've went to one AA meeting. Yeah, he did just, it wasn't his deal. But, but then this, everything he was talking about, I'm hearing the steps, but in, in this whole different thing that he did, you know, and not, not necessarily listed as steps, but yeah.

Mike (01:14:31.822)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (01:14:38.734)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:14:43.326)
Yeah. Right.

Mike (01:14:49.704)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Right. Got a mentor, you know, instead of a sponsor and yeah, right. And he did, he worked a fucking program. It just had different words to it, but it was the same fucking action.

Bill (01:14:55.636)
But the comparing thing when... Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:15:07.388)
Right. Yeah, which is it was stuff like that still. I mean, it is really cool to me, you know, realizing that, you know, again, we're all on the same, this, you know, 72 lane highway and, you know, some of us are going to different speeds and, but in maybe around a different curve, but we're all ending up in the, in the same, the same destination, or at least heading towards the same destination, but the, the comparing ourselves to, uh, in, I know you brought that up the, the one time, you know, cause I always looked at it as like when I came in,

Mike (01:15:12.688)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:15:18.378)
Right.

Mike (01:15:25.642)
Yep.

Bill (01:15:36.72)
I mean, I didn't think I thought that I didn't belong, you know, and I thought I was right. I mean, but again, I mean, I can say that openly now because it's because it's so fucking ridiculous, you know. But but the other thing that you had mentioned that, you know, not saying that you were worse. And I never thought about it that way, you know, that, you know, people could compare themselves out of the room at that extreme, too. You know, I'm too far gone. I can't this is not going to work for me.

Mike (01:15:40.523)
Right. Oh, you're way better than us.

Hehe

Mike (01:15:48.523)
Of course.

Mike (01:15:56.61)
Oh yeah.

Mike (01:16:00.798)
Oh yeah, right. Yeah.

Bill (01:16:06.164)
You know, but I mean, literally the day that I got to the Keating Center, man, I'm like, you know, telling mom and Kathy, I'm like, this is a fucking homeless place. I'm going to get killed. I'm going to get beat up.

Mike (01:16:12.854)
Right. Hehehehe. Right. It's a bunch of convicts and fucking street people. Yup. Of course. Of course not. Hehehehe.

Bill (01:16:17.904)
And it was, you know, but it didn't fucking matter, you know. But it's, and then, you know, again, all realizing that in finding out, thankfully, you know, finding out quickly too, that all these guys, you know, that I thought wanted to hurt me, had nothing in mind but to help me, you know. And that happened that first night because even though that everyone was jumping around like, you know, fucking wild animals, you know, that night.

Mike (01:16:35.31)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (01:16:43.746)
Uh-huh.

Bill (01:16:46.6)
Dominic and Josh both of them literally came up and they're like come on Let's go grab your bags man, and you know and you know kind of put their arms around me like hey It's okay, man Come on You know and they were two of the ones who were going fucking nuts out there too, but they saw Hey, they saw what was going on now. I was ready to sort of you fucking run you know and Then you know any of those guys? I mean you know those two guys that I mentioned sadly are not around anymore, but

Mike (01:16:58.826)
Yeah. Right.

Mike (01:17:11.233)
Mm-hmm.

Bill (01:17:12.324)
Any of the other guys, all the guys we know now, all the men and women that we know now, we would do anything for and they would do anything for us, you know? And we all came from so many different, so many different backgrounds and directions. And it's just so fucking beautiful. But the key there is that, you know, that they used to always tell us, you know, look for the similarities and not the differences, you know, and stick around long enough to till you hear your story.

Mike (01:17:23.958)
Yeah.

Bill (01:17:39.236)
And you know, so even if you don't want to think in terms of everyone says, you know, stay until the miracle happens. I understand what that means and so do you. You know, but if somebody doesn't really want to go to this miracle thing, just stick around long enough until you hear your story because you will. You know.

Mike (01:17:43.85)
Uh-huh. Right. Yeah.

Mike (01:17:52.618)
Right. Yeah. Stick around. Do the work until you get the result. It's really the best way to put it. Fuck the miracle. Do the goddamn work that's laid out for you and you will get the result. Hi, Tony.

Bill (01:17:59.164)
Right? Yeah.

Bill (01:18:03.182)
Hahaha!

Bill (01:18:08.476)
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. Fuck the miracle. I love that one. I just said that might be, and I moved my new saying. Fuck the mirror. Fuck you and your miracle.

Mike (01:18:13.468)
Yep. That's right. I've been saying that for 13 and a half years. Fuck you and your miracles, man.

Bill (01:18:22.801)
Right.

Bill (01:18:27.12)
Yeah, and I mean, that's exactly what the point is, is that all these sayings and stuff like this are wonderful, and I get it. I still think some of them are cheesy, but I mean, I live by a lot of them. But yeah, it's just sticking around. I mean, just don't go away. I say this all the time. Everyone says keep humming back. I'm like, fuck that, just stay. Don't keep coming back, stick around, stay, fucking stay. If you stay long enough, sooner or later, that head's gonna pop out of your ass, and you're gonna be able to, what did you say, hear everyone, or hear?

Mike (01:18:37.163)
Right?

Mike (01:18:45.806)
Mm hmm. Yep. Stay.

Mike (01:18:53.774)
Mm-hmm. See other people, right? Yeah. When your head's up your ass, you look in every direction and all you can see is yourself because your head's up your ass. Yep.

Bill (01:18:56.356)
other people. I'll see other people. There you go. Yeah.

Bill (01:19:03.9)
Right, right. There you go, there you go. But yeah, so that was just, it was just one of those things that I knew we had talked about, but I thought it was kind of important because I know that, I mean, I was, I was really fucking guilty of, you know, trying to compare myself. You fucking people aren't me. Yeah, yeah, yeah you are. Yes, I am. Yes, I am and yes you are. Yeah.

Mike (01:19:24.651)
Yeah, yup. I am you, you are me, right.

Bill (01:19:30.18)
That's the, it's still the funniest thing in the world is the fact that you and I became so close is because we are the, people could, if people wanna really see what, you know, don't compare yourself, just look at us. That's all you gotta do. Just walk into it, walk in, as if you walked into a meeting and you saw me and you saw Mike and I don't care what part of the aisle you're on, if you're on Mike's side of the aisle and you're like, oh, he's friends with that fucking dork. And then, you know, you're on my side of the aisle and you're like, you're friends with that fucking badass looking piece of shit. Yep. And you know what?

Mike (01:19:34.35)
Mm-hmm. Hehehehe.

Mike (01:19:41.586)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yep.

Mike (01:19:48.546)
Mm-hmm. Mm-mm.

Mike (01:19:53.954)
Hehehehe

He he he. Yep, exactly the same.

Bill (01:19:59.4)
We're the same. What? It doesn't make any fucking sense, but hey, you know what? None of this shit makes sense and it doesn't fucking matter anyhow. All right, well, I know I got probably other little things on here, but I believe that, yeah, I think we're good. How about you?

Mike (01:20:07.551)
Not much.

Mike (01:20:16.431)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

Bill (01:20:18.824)
Alright, well, uh, okay. Let's, uh, run the fuck out of here then. Heh heh, right. So your turn there, brother.

Mike (01:20:20.526)
We'll do all this shit again next week. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of sober, not mature. As always be kind to each other, be good to each other, do something nice for somebody else this week. Don't tell anybody about it. And as always, it is that time kids. It is now time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

Bill (01:20:58.489)
Yes, what he said. And you know what, last thing, so the same thing as we were kind of going on with last week is just, hey, share this shit with somebody, okay? Give us a review. What do you say? Like, subscribe, and share. That's all you got to do. Yeah, if you even halfway like what we're doing, fucking tell somebody about it, fucking share it, fucking give us some stars, five of them. Say some nice things about us. That's all you got to do. We're not asking.

Mike (01:21:00.913)
Hehehehe

Mike (01:21:08.322)
Yeah. Yep.

That's it. Yep.

Mike (01:21:21.058)
Yep. Mm-hmm. That's it.

Bill (01:21:25.28)
It doesn't cost you a goddamn thing except for a couple minutes of your time. So there, so and merry fucking Christmas. Yeah, filthy fucking. Leave it on the stairs. Get out of here. All right, man. I love you, brother. Seriously, everyone have a wonderful, safe, happy holiday weekend. Don't get stupid. Just have fun. Have clean fun and sober fun.

Mike (01:21:27.798)
That's right. Yeah. Filthy fucking animals.

Mike (01:21:38.335)
Hehe

Mike (01:21:41.804)
I love you too.

Mike (01:21:48.586)
Yep. 24 hours, man. And then it'll be boxing day and you'll be fucking done with this nonsense.

Bill (01:21:54.798)
Right, all right, I love you brother. Bye.

Mike (01:21:56.554)
Love you too.